PDA

View Full Version : Is it safe to run OS X ML on a primary computer?




chrismarle
Apr 26, 2012, 05:05 PM
Hi guys,

I'm currently waiting for the refresh of the iMac line and one of my friends asked me if I would like to install OS X ML but I have a few questions to ask before.

First, is it safe and reliable to use everyday as a main computer? Will it work well?

Secondly, when ML will be officilally available in the Mac App Store, will it be possible for me to just buy it and install it without problems over the developer preview that I'll be running?

Thanks!



mopatops
Apr 26, 2012, 05:17 PM
Hi guys,

I'm currently waiting for the refresh of the iMac line and one of my friends asked me if I would like to install OS X ML but I have a few questions to ask before.

First, is it safe and reliable to use everyday as a main computer? Will it work well?

Secondly, when ML will be officilally available in the Mac App Store, will it be possible for me to just buy it and install it without problems over the developer preview that I'll be running?

Thanks!

No. It's in beta which means it shouldn't be used as a primary system. Trust me and wait for the official release this summer. Yeah, it'll be available for purchase from the Mac App Store and will simply install over your current Lion setup.

Bear
Apr 26, 2012, 05:32 PM
...
First, is it safe and reliable to use everyday as a main computer? Will it work well?
...It's a developer preview, it has bugs. It may or may not work well, some of the people who say they are using it as a primary OS have admitted to living with issues.

In summary. Wait for Mountain Lion to be released before upgrading.

xlii
Apr 26, 2012, 05:44 PM
The only people that need to run ML right now are those who want software that they wrote to work on ML when ML is released to the public.

There is no reason for anyone else to be running it now.

old-wiz
Apr 26, 2012, 06:44 PM
The only people that need to run ML right now are those who want software that they wrote to work on ML when ML is released to the public.

There is no reason for anyone else to be running it now.

Well said! We need sanity!

chrismarle
Apr 27, 2012, 12:22 AM
Thanks guys! When I'll get my iMac, I'll stick with Lion until ML.

throAU
Apr 27, 2012, 01:03 AM
Hi guys,

I'm currently waiting for the refresh of the iMac line and one of my friends asked me if I would like to install OS X ML but I have a few questions to ask before.

First, is it safe and reliable to use everyday as a main computer? Will it work well?

1. If you're not a developer you shouldn't be running it - it isn't licensed for general release to the public
2. Software may not work, it may crash, functionality may change prior to release, it may kill your dog, back up your toilet, etc.

It is pre-release software for DEVELOPERS to get to know what is coming in the future release.

It is not ready for prime time.

You might be OK running it, but there is no guarantee.

kemo
Apr 27, 2012, 03:21 AM
Im not suggesting as well to run it on primary machine even you are just browsing a web. There are bugs, which may occur unexpectedly and more importantly its not licensed for public.

roadbloc
Apr 27, 2012, 04:11 AM
Is it safe to run a beta OS as a main OS? Have IQs dropped sharply since I last visited?

hafr
Apr 27, 2012, 05:07 AM
It's as safe as you make it, based on your personal situation. I used ML as the primary OS on my primary computer during a few weeks, and I really liked it. Then all of a sudden I experienced huge problems with permissions... Not really having the time to dive deeper into it, I tried a few solutions with no luck, then I just switched back to my Lion install and removed ML. Keeping both online and on site backups of all my files (of importance), I didn't have to revert back to the last time I used Lion but I just picked up where I left off.

Without precautions like that I wouldn't recommend anyone to even consider installing it on a primary machine.

Bear
Apr 27, 2012, 07:17 AM
Is it safe to run a beta OS as a main OS? Have IQs dropped sharply since I last visited?Apparently. Especially noticeable in some other threads in the forums.

r0k
Apr 27, 2012, 08:34 AM
I run ML as my main OS...

Booted from an external (backup) HDD...

On my spare Mac mini.

Have IQ's dropped? It's not clear. Perhaps with more Mac/OSX market share there are more Windows users in the forums these days and after all, many Windows users are accustomed to paying for the privilege of running a beta OS. :eek:

bogatyr
Apr 27, 2012, 12:55 PM
Windows users are accustomed to paying for the privilege of running a beta OS. :eek:
You mean through Microsoft's developer program? Kind of like Apple requiring people to be part of their paid developer program for the beta?

hafr
Apr 27, 2012, 01:21 PM
You mean through Microsoft's developer program? Kind of like Apple requiring people to be part of their paid developer program for the beta?

Probably, because he can't be talking about the public and free Consumer Preview of Windows 8...

bogatyr
Apr 27, 2012, 02:05 PM
Probably, because he can't be talking about the public and free Consumer Preview of Windows 8...

For some reason I kept thinking the CP was the RC and not the beta. However, after checking, I am incorrect on that.

Used to be, to access the beta versions, you needed either TechNet (testing for I.T. guys) or MSDN subscriptions (testing for developers).

r0k
Apr 27, 2012, 02:33 PM
You mean through Microsoft's developer program? Kind of like Apple requiring people to be part of their paid developer program for the beta?

I was talking about the OEM, retail and upgrade versions of every MS OS since Windows 95. The only one I've run that didn't feel like beta software was 95. Everything since then (except Vista which I wouldn't go anywhere near) has felt like a beta (or worse). For instance, as I sit here in front of "not responding theater" otherwise called Win 7 Enterprise SP 1, I have the feeling that I'm sitting in front of a beta but I've given up on anything ever being fixed. When our IT guys finally allowed SP1 to come down a few weeks back, I hoped something would be fixed. Nope. It just got e v e n s l o w e r...

When I first switched to OSX, I was bothered by the lack of a "refresh" button in Finder. Years of Windoze had beaten me down and spoiled my expectations. Why on earth would an operating system update the contents of a file browser? That's the user's job! If you want to see what it looks like now, click refresh to be shown what it looks like now. :rolleyes:

I even installed some stupid third party hack so I'd have a refresh button in Finder. And it's a button I haven't clicked in five years. I had to click refresh in Windows Explorer 3 or 4 times yesterday and once today. If an OS is too busy changing 14000 meaningless registry entries per second to put some priority on updating the currently foreground file list window, then that OS doesn't deserve to be called beta. Alpha maybe. Or perhaps just plain junk. One way or the other, I (or my employer) had to pay to use MS software whose quality reminds me of something Apple wouldn't even refer to as DP0.

And yes the Consumer Preview of Win 8 was free. I was intrigued with it even though I saw it was just a wrapper around 7. I hope MS does well with it. There needs to be some competition to Apple now that they are about to be worth more than the rest of the software industry... Combined.

But to impress me MS has to start taking usability seriously. I shouldn't have to wait 90 to 180 seconds for Word 2010 to drag itself bit by byte off my hard drive just to read a meeting notice. On my Mac I have quick view. On Win 7 I simply wait. I shouldn't have to wait 5 to 10 minutes for my bluetooth mouse to start working after every hibernate even after applying a half dozen obscure registry fixes (which did improve the wait from what used to be 15 to 30 minutes). :eek: What computer companies sell me is time. Apple has literally added months to my life that would normally have been wasted on "are you sure?" or spent staring blankly at some sort of hourglass. This is a phone call the folks up in Redmond continue to let go to voicemail. Give us our time back, please! Take your multi-gigabyte Office and your multi-megabyte registry and put it on a freakin' anorexic diet already. Until you do, at best it's beta. At worst it's junk.

And yes I had to pay to have access to the developer preview of ML which to me works more reliably than Win 7 SP1. Which isn't saying much.

Sorry that my comment made it sound like I was a member of MSDN. I haven't been involved in that since 2002.

bogatyr
Apr 27, 2012, 02:49 PM
I was talking about the OEM, retail and upgrade versions of every MS OS since Windows 95. The only one I've run that didn't feel like beta software was 95. Everything since then (except Vista which I wouldn't go anywhere near) has felt like a beta (or worse).
It's either your choices of hardware or you then. I love OS X, but Windows isn't an inferior product. If you feel like they're all beta products then you're doing something wrong.

Tozzi
Apr 27, 2012, 03:54 PM
Back on topic, I've been using ML as my primary system for a while now and, to me, it feels much better and more stable than any Lion point release so far.

Obviously, some 3rd party drivers won't work, and of course you MUST take a backup of your running Lion system first.

If you've not been invited to testing it by Apple Care or by being a developer, you're not licensed to use it.
If you are eligible, by all means, do use it as your primary system.
Else, how are you supposed to find bugs and report them?

Apple do explicitly recommend using it as your primary system, but for obvious reasons they do advise against using it in a "productive environment" because of liability issues. Where you draw that line is up to you... ;)

*LTD*
Apr 27, 2012, 03:55 PM
First, is it safe and reliable to use everyday as a main computer? Will it work well?

Sure, it's fine. Nothing very catastrophic will happen. It's quite stable and pretty fast. There are some bugs here and there, though. But nothing preventing anyone from running it as a daily OS, as long as the apps you use work under it. It's got some good stuff that's worth checking out.

Just keep your files backed up (you should be using Time Machine or an equivalent *anyway*, that's why it's there) and you should be ok.

I'm running it on:

Early 2008 MBP, 15-inch, 2.4Ghz
6GB RAM

hafr
Apr 27, 2012, 04:11 PM
Back on topic, I've been using ML as my primary system for a while now and, to me, it feels much better and more stable than any Lion point release so far.

Obviously, some 3rd party drivers won't work, and of course you MUST take a backup of your running Lion system first.

If you've not been invited to testing it by Apple Care or by being a developer, you're not licensed to use it.
If you are eligible, by all means, do use it as your primary system.
Else, how are you supposed to find bugs and report them?

Apple do explicitly recommend using it as your primary system, but for obvious reasons they do advise against using it in a "productive environment" because of liability issues. Where you draw that line is up to you... ;)

Maybe it's me misinterpreting something, but I see a distinct difference between using ML as a primary system and using it as a primary system on the main computer.

I'm not tied to what I see as my main computer to do work, I could do it on either of the computers I have. I could install ML on one of them and use that one for work, or during time off, or however I choose and trying it out as a primary system without ever having ML on my main computer. But then again, maybe I'm missing something in the translation :)

Tozzi
Apr 27, 2012, 04:52 PM
All I'm saying is, if you don't use it in your everyday work, how do you expect to find bugs and help Apple fix them?

I guess the same happened with Lion (which still crashes my Mid-2011 17" MBP on switching graphics cards; a bug that has since been acknowledged by Apple as such).
Apparently, developers just went to see if their apps still worked, and noone really tested it before its release.

I don't see the problem, really.
Take a backup, then install ML and use it (if you're entitled to).
If it doesn't work for you, file a bug report, restore the backup and wait for the next DP (or GM or Release).
If it does, keep using it and take backups of the files you're working on, just in case...

chrismarle
Apr 27, 2012, 06:12 PM
Is it safe to run a beta OS as a main OS? Have IQs dropped sharply since I last visited?

I know it's not the same thing but beta of iOS are quite stable and I wanted to see what people think about that. I was asking this because I was not sure if OS X beta are running well.

BTW, asking a question that seems obvious for you doesn't mean it's obvious for everyone. It's my first Mac EVER that I'm going to purchase so that's why I am asking questions like that. I have been using a lot of beta software on my Windows PC but since I'm new to OS X, I was wondering if Apple has "good and working" betas.

Bear
Apr 27, 2012, 06:34 PM
I'm currently waiting for the refresh of the iMac line and one of my friends asked me if I would like to install OS X ML but I have a few questions to ask before.
...Something that should've been mentioned earlier is that you're asking for advice on pirated software. That is not allowed here.

And yes if your friend gives it to you, it's pirated.

Kuwait
Apr 27, 2012, 07:09 PM
i run OS X ML on a primary on my computer

chrismarle
Apr 27, 2012, 08:24 PM
Something that should've been mentioned earlier is that you're asking for advice on pirated software. That is not allowed here.

And yes if your friend gives it to you, it's pirated.

My friend is a registered OS X developer through the official developer program and simply asked me if I would like to have a preview of OS X ML on my futur Mac to have a taste of it.

Bear
Apr 27, 2012, 09:34 PM
My friend is a registered OS X developer through the official developer program and simply asked me if I would like to have a preview of OS X ML on my futur Mac to have a taste of it.
And you aren't. So it's pirating.

kd5jos
Apr 28, 2012, 12:26 AM
And you aren't. So it's pirating.

So maybe (just maybe) this BRAND NEW MAC USER doesn't know that in order to run ML he'd have to be a Developer. Maybe, it would be a good idea to gently let the NEW GUY know that there is a requirement to use a Developer Preview. I guess we could just chop him up and mail him to Apple (or Mac Rumors) to punish him.

The IMPORTANT part of his question is "Hey, is it a good idea to use this OS as my primary one, or should I stick with Lion." He didn't ask, "hey my buddy's got a copy of this and I want to put it on the intertoobz so EVERYONE can have a copy..."

Now the NEW GUY knows it's not a great idea and why. He also knows MOST of the forum users around here can be helpful.

Yes, he's wrong for pirating, and now he knows. But your attitude about it is MORE wrong. Would YOU like to be treated like you treated him? I'm sure I could find something to drop a hammer on you about... Oh wait, I am!

ajvizzgamer101
Apr 28, 2012, 10:28 AM
I do. It's pretty stable, but I wouldn't recommend it. I don't use many third party Apps, so I won't find as many issues as other people.

chrono1081
Apr 28, 2012, 10:55 AM
I just wanted to chime in and say this about developer previews:

There is ALWAYS a good chance that functionality will be broken with an update. Look at iOS developer previews, the first release may work well, but the second release breaks stuff while fixing others.

(You can tell when this happens because the non-devs flood the forums and complain about it while the devs laugh because they read the release notes and knew what to expect ;) )

So even if you do put ML on a system and it runs well, theres no guarantee it will continue to run well on the next release.

So ya, as others said, wait for the actual release.

Sdreed91
Apr 28, 2012, 06:48 PM
I have been using it as my main for almost 2 months now. Works fairly well.

chrismarle
Apr 28, 2012, 07:34 PM
And you aren't. So it's pirating.

Pirating for "testing an upcoming version of an OS"? Really?

My friend, I am anti-pirating. If you could check on my computer, you would find not any single pirated software/media. Everything I have on my computer, from music to softwares and operating systems were paid by myself.

So, please, don't say that I'm pirating anything, I just wanted to see with my own eyes what ML is like. But since I trust this community, I won't install ML developer preview on my upcoming iMac.

Tozzi
Apr 28, 2012, 08:44 PM
But since I trust this community
Don't. At least not blindly.
Every helpful post will be followed by at least 3 of the usual "told you so", "you're a pirate/idiot/fanboy/hater (insert favorite insult here)" ones.
But I guess you've figured that one out by yourself by now... :rolleyes:

Bear
Apr 28, 2012, 09:54 PM
Pirating for "testing an upcoming version of an OS"? Really?

My friend, I am anti-pirating. If you could check on my computer, you would find not any single pirated software/media. Everything I have on my computer, from music to softwares and operating systems were paid by myself.

....Installing software that you aren't licensed for, even a beta is pirating.

Nielsenius
Apr 28, 2012, 10:23 PM
Installing software that you aren't licensed for, even a beta is pirating.
Sure, it's "piracy", but who really cares and what impact does it make on Apple? We're talking about a beta OS here. Apple doesn't expect to make money off of dev previews. I've never heard of anyone being brought to court for illegally installing a piece of beta software. There's no reason to get on someone's back for "pirating" a dev preview. No matter how you spin it it's not morally, ethically, or financially wrong.

As for actually using Mountain Lion as your main OS: it's stable enough and enough third party applications work on it for it to be usable. You'll likely run into some annoying bugs, as I have during my usage. It's not much different from Lion, besides some small iOS-like additions.

chrismarle
Apr 28, 2012, 11:33 PM
Sure, it's "piracy", but who really cares and what impact does it make on Apple? We're talking about a beta OS here. Apple doesn't expect to make money off of dev previews. I've never heard of anyone being brought to court for illegally installing a piece of beta software. There's no reason to get on someone's back for "pirating" a dev preview. No matter how you spin it it's not morally, ethically, or financially wrong.


Thanks for understanding my position.

Then, if it feels like piracy (I still don't think it is), I will could say that I would enroll myself in the OS X developer program to be clear of your suspicions.

My real question was if yes or no it is a fully working OS (even if it's in beta) that I could count on everyday. I had my answer and by the majority, I should wait until the public release and that's what I will be doing.

hafr
Apr 29, 2012, 04:04 AM
Sure, it's "piracy", but who really cares and what impact does it make on Apple? We're talking about a beta OS here. Apple doesn't expect to make money off of dev previews. I've never heard of anyone being brought to court for illegally installing a piece of beta software. There's no reason to get on someone's back for "pirating" a dev preview. No matter how you spin it it's not morally, ethically, or financially wrong.
Would you feel comfortable stealing say an apple from a fruit vendor, if you knew that specific apple wouldn't be sold before it had to be thrown out? Or steal and use a car if you knew you could have it back before the owner knew about it?

You can't justify pirating by saying "they wouldn't have made any money either way", it's like saying it's okay to download movies that you wouldn't have seen if you had to pay for them.

The bottom line is, the only thing that counts is whether or not you're allowed to use the software. Anything else is irrelevant. Stealing a five dollar t-shirt from H&M because you can and they wouldn't notice it in any way what so ever is still stealing, the same way using ML if you're not allowed to is pirating.

Nielsenius
Apr 29, 2012, 08:52 AM
Would you feel comfortable stealing say an apple from a fruit vendor, if you knew that specific apple wouldn't be sold before it had to be thrown out? Or steal and use a car if you knew you could have it back before the owner knew about it?

You can't justify pirating by saying "they wouldn't have made any money either way", it's like saying it's okay to download movies that you wouldn't have seen if you had to pay for them.

The bottom line is, the only thing that counts is whether or not you're allowed to use the software. Anything else is irrelevant. Stealing a five dollar t-shirt from H&M because you can and they wouldn't notice it in any way what so ever is still stealing, the same way using ML if you're not allowed to is pirating.
I never said that using a Mountain Lion dev preview when you aren't authorized to wasn't piracy. It is piracy and I don't deny that. I said that it isn't "morally, ethically, or financially wrong". Stealing a t-shirt made in limited quantities hurts the manufacturer. Stealing fruit from a stand hurts the vendor. Illegally downloading a movie hurts Hollywood (even that is debatable). Installing a piece of beta software when "you're not allowed" doesn't hurt anybody.

bedifferent
Apr 29, 2012, 12:59 PM
Wait, I just clicked on this thread to read opinions on ML DP3 as a main OS. Where did piracy come from? I'm confused. :confused:

Cougarcat
Apr 29, 2012, 01:13 PM
Wait, I just clicked on this thread to read opinions on ML DP3 as a main OS. Where did piracy come from? I'm confused. :confused:

The OP admitted that his developer friend offered him the beta, and the thread predictably derailed from there.

bedifferent
Apr 29, 2012, 01:24 PM
The OP admitted that his developer friend offered him the beta, and the thread predictably derailed from there.

Oh MacRumors, it never changes :p

hafr
Apr 29, 2012, 03:05 PM
I never said that using a Mountain Lion dev preview when you aren't authorized to wasn't piracy. It is piracy and I don't deny that. I said that it isn't "morally, ethically, or financially wrong".
We clearly have very different views on the moral and ethical aspects of using things you have no right using, and if you use something which you have to pay to use, without paying, I would argue it's "financially wrong" (sic).

Stealing a t-shirt made in limited quantities hurts the manufacturer.
You said Apple doesn't expect to make money from the DP's, so it's not "financially wrong" despite the fact that you have to pay to be able to use it. But stealing a five dollar t-shirt from H&M would hurt them? It doesn't add up.

Stealing fruit from a stand hurts the vendor.
Having actually sold fruit, I can tell you you count on having to throw fruit out. A stolen apple doesn't hurt the vendor. Do you still feel it's wrong to steal an apple?

Illegally downloading a movie hurts Hollywood (even that is debatable). Installing a piece of beta software when "you're not allowed" doesn't hurt anybody.
In what way is watching a movie without paying for it hurting the makers of it when using a software without paying for it isn't?

r0k
Apr 30, 2012, 10:33 AM
It's either your choices of hardware or you then. I love OS X, but Windows isn't an inferior product. If you feel like they're all beta products then you're doing something wrong.

I agree that much of my experience with Windows is affected by the IT around here that makes load times painfully slow when a "stock" win 7 load would be much better.

I do, however stand by assertion that quick look is inherently superior to loading an entire application just to view a word document or pdf file. OSX might be "better" designed but if you need windows enterprise apps, then that's better for you. YMMV.