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graytrees
May 1, 2012, 11:48 PM
With regard to dual monitors?



bjm2660
May 7, 2012, 04:19 AM
I'm also wondering this.

NJRonbo
May 7, 2012, 05:56 AM
Nope.

If you attempt to make a program full-screen, the secondary monitor goes to linen mode.

Simplicated
May 7, 2012, 08:23 AM
Nope.

If you attempt to make a program full-screen, the secondary monitor goes to linen mode.

Does it still move the window to the primary monitor?

NJRonbo
May 7, 2012, 08:55 AM
If I understand you correctly, yes, the browser fills the main monitor and the secondary becomes just a linen background.

Simplicated
May 7, 2012, 10:32 AM
If I understand you correctly, yes, the browser fills the main monitor and the secondary becomes just a linen background.

Yep you comprehended it correctly. A bummer, since I usually show QuickTime videos to my classmates on the secondary monitor (projector in this case)...

haravikk
May 7, 2012, 11:02 AM
So long as Quicktime 7 continues working we can at least keep watching videos on a secondary screen, but it's annoying that fullscreen support isn't being fixed, as it's like multi-screen users have essentially been ignored when Lion was made.

It would have taken no effort at all to just have an app full-screen on whichever monitor it is currently on, while leaving the other monitor unaffected. Then it's just a case of allowing full-screen on multiple monitors, possibly requiring a dummy menu-bar for apps on secondary screen(s).

It's another example of users needing to post their thoughts on http://bugreport.apple.com, it seems like enough support allowed a change to Mission Control to sneak in (ungrouping of windows), maybe we can get the same for Fullscreen. It's another one of the features that feels very much like it was intended for laptops, forgetting about everyone else.

Jamie0003
May 7, 2012, 05:58 PM
So long as Quicktime 7 continues working we can at least keep watching videos on a secondary screen, but it's annoying that fullscreen support isn't being fixed, as it's like multi-screen users have essentially been ignored when Lion was made.

It would have taken no effort at all to just have an app full-screen on whichever monitor it is currently on, while leaving the other monitor unaffected. Then it's just a case of allowing full-screen on multiple monitors, possibly requiring a dummy menu-bar for apps on secondary screen(s).

It's another example of users needing to post their thoughts on http://bugreport.apple.com, it seems like enough support allowed a change to Mission Control to sneak in (ungrouping of windows), maybe we can get the same for Fullscreen. It's another one of the features that feels very much like it was intended for laptops, forgetting about everyone else.

I'd love to have this, as my 13" MBP can be small for certain tasks. Having extended desktop mode for Airplay from the Mac would be amazing as well, but I think it only supports mirroring at the moment.

james948
May 7, 2012, 07:15 PM
I made a quick movie about how I think Multi Monitor support *should* work in Mountain Lion and Lion for that matter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDnyH_abV7E&feature=youtu.be

Basically, the full screen apps are on a carousel.

skuid87
May 7, 2012, 07:19 PM
I made a quick movie about how I think Multi Monitor support *should* work in Mountain Lion and Lion for that matter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDnyH_abV7E&feature=youtu.be

Basically, the full screen apps are on a carousel.

I like that. Could actually work very well.

But we should also have the option of switching one display off. E.g - When watching a Quicktime vid full screen on monitor 2 (projector), we should have the option of disabling the primary display.

Mad Mac Maniac
May 8, 2012, 09:09 AM
I made a quick movie about how I think Multi Monitor support *should* work in Mountain Lion and Lion for that matter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDnyH_abV7E&feature=youtu.be

Basically, the full screen apps are on a carousel.

Looks very nice

Although it would be nice to have the option of having one monitor in full screen mode, and the other not... running independently of each other. In that case, whichever screen the cursor was currently on would be the "active" screen for multi-finger gestures. That may be a bit non-intuitive for Apple, but I think it's the best way to do it.

Blipp
May 8, 2012, 09:21 AM
Looks very nice

Although it would be nice to have the option of having one monitor in full screen mode, and the other not... running independently of each other. In that case, whichever screen the cursor was currently on would be the "active" screen for multi-finger gestures. That may be a bit non-intuitive for Apple, but I think it's the best way to do it.

I like this idea. Have the default behavior as a "carousel" but give the option to have each monitor cycle independently from each other.

bjm2660
May 8, 2012, 09:30 AM
I made a quick movie about how I think Multi Monitor support *should* work in Mountain Lion and Lion for that matter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDnyH_abV7E&feature=youtu.be

Basically, the full screen apps are on a carousel.

Thanks for posting this. That is exactly as I thought it should have been with Lion. "Why doesn't itů" Let's hope Apple gets the hint.

bedifferent
May 8, 2012, 11:42 AM
I made a quick movie about how I think Multi Monitor support *should* work in Mountain Lion and Lion for that matter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDnyH_abV7E&feature=youtu.be

Basically, the full screen apps are on a carousel.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html

Send this along to Apple OS X feedback. You'll have to describe it as you cannot attach it, but a link in the comments to your video should be helpful.

If not, as a developer, I can file this suggestion to Apple engineers and even upload the video. This would be a great start in the right direction for 2+ displays in OS X.

newagemac
May 8, 2012, 11:44 AM
This is probably going to be news to a whole lot of people but multi-monitor support in Lion and Mountain Lion while in full screen mode actually does work. Yes you can already use a second monitor in full screen mode in Lion.

Let me explain...

The intended purpose of full screen mode is to give you distraction-free and focused workspace for whatever application you are currently working on while allowing you to easily swipe to other apps for multitasking. But yes, full screen mode does allow you to use a second screen while full screen mode is active. It just works differently.

While it's true that other apps can't show on the second screen, the developer of the app can make the panels for the current app/document show on the second screen. For an example of this, take a look at Apple's Keynote and Numbers apps. If you open their inspection panels and move them to your second display and then go into Lion's Full Screen Mode, the inspection panels all show up on the second monitor on top of the gray linen background.

In this way, full screen mode still serves it's purpose of being distraction free and focusing on the particular app but at the same time it utilizes your second display for secondary windows and panels produced by the current app you're working on.

The problem currently is that most app developers have yet to fully make their apps work as intended by Apple in Full Screen Mode.

You already have the ability to fill up one screen with one app while filling up your other screen with another app without using full screen mode. So full screen mode gives you yet another entirely different option. If it instead worked the way some people want it to work, that would be rather redundant because it is already possible to do that without going into Full Screen Mode and you would therefore lose the option Full Screen Mode now gives you (provided that the developer supports it in their app of course).

bedifferent
May 8, 2012, 11:53 AM
This is probably going to be news to a whole lot of people but multi-monitor support in Lion and Mountain Lion while in full screen mode actually does work.

Interesting, I did not know iWork windows can be seen on the second display while in full screen mode. While this is better than nothing, it still would make more sense if Apple engineers eliminated the unnecessary linen background of the second display and allowed it to remain a desktop for anything. Yes, I understand that full screen mode is meant to pull focus on one application, however for those who like use of their full screen for desktop real estate, it would make sense to allow each display desktop to have the ability for two full screen applications.

Checked Adobe CS MC 6, as there's no full screen mode apps such as Photoshop 6 haven't taken advantage of this option. Shame.

newagemac
May 8, 2012, 12:32 PM
Interesting, I did not know iWork windows can be seen on the second display while in full screen mode. While this is better than nothing, it still would make more sense if Apple engineers eliminated the unnecessary linen background of the second display and allowed it to remain a desktop for anything. Yes, I understand that full screen mode is meant to pull focus on one application, however for those who like use of their full screen for desktop real estate, it would make sense to allow each display desktop to have the ability for two full screen applications.

Checked Adobe CS MC 6, as there's no full screen mode apps such as Photoshop 6 haven't taken advantage of this option. Shame.

Like I said previously, you can already allow each display to have different apps. Lion's Full Screen Mode gives you a different option. You can switch between apps and allow their panels to take up the second screen and not worry about clutter all behind the panels because the gray Linen background blocks everything else out for you.

And you brought up a great example with Adobe. If they ever get around to implementing full screen mode in Lion for apps like Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, Dreamweaver, and Fireworks they can make their panels show up on the second monitor just like Apple and some other 3rd party developers have done.

That would be huge. Then you could just swipe between the CS apps with all of them taking up the full screen with their panels on the second screen and no clutter from other apps showing behind the panels for your current app.

JohnDoe98
May 8, 2012, 12:54 PM
Like I said previously, you can already allow each display to have different apps. Lion's Full Screen Mode gives you a different option. You can switch between apps and allow their panels to take up the second screen and not worry about clutter all behind the panels because the gray Linen background blocks everything else out for you.

What if I have a MBP and a Cinema Display, can I put keynote in full-screen on the Cinema Display and the panels on the MBP linen? No? So the bigger better screen is reserved for linen while the small one is for the main presenation? That sounds backwards to me. The problem doesn't sound like it is limited to developers. Maybe I am just uninformed though. Is there a toggle to make the external display the primary one? If not, that's missing with the current implemenation.

tkermit
May 8, 2012, 01:23 PM
What if I have a MBP and a Cinema Display, can I put keynote in full-screen on the Cinema Display and the panels on the MBP linen? No? So the bigger better screen is reserved for linen while the small one is for the main presenation? That sounds backwards to me. The problem doesn't sound like it is limited to developers. Maybe I am just uninformed though. Is there a toggle to make the external display the primary one?

Of course there is. Just drag the menu bar to the display that you want to use as the primary one.

http://f.cl.ly/items/3P1t1L1O1N3S201f3Y0q/primary.png

james948
May 8, 2012, 01:58 PM
That would be huge. Then you could just swipe between the CS apps with all of them taking up the full screen with their panels on the second screen and no clutter from other apps showing behind the panels for your current app.


i've been waiting for this to happen with your ipad for AGES>
Imagine Logic synth controls on your ipad.

Tinmania
May 8, 2012, 02:14 PM
This is probably going to be news to a whole lot of people but multi-monitor support in Lion and Mountain Lion while in full screen mode actually does work. Yes you can already use a second monitor in full screen mode in Lion.

Let me explain...

The intended purpose of full screen mode is to give you distraction-free and focused workspace for whatever application you are currently working on while allowing you to easily swipe to other apps for multitasking. But yes, full screen mode does allow you to use a second screen while full screen mode is active. It just works differently.

While it's true that other apps can't show on the second screen, the developer of the app can make the panels for the current app/document show on the second screen. For an example of this, take a look at Apple's Keynote and Numbers apps. If you open their inspection panels and move them to your second display and then go into Lion's Full Screen Mode, the inspection panels all show up on the second monitor on top of the gray linen background.

In this way, full screen mode still serves it's purpose of being distraction free and focusing on the particular app but at the same time it utilizes your second display for secondary windows and panels produced by the current app you're working on.

The problem currently is that most app developers have yet to fully make their apps work as intended by Apple in Full Screen Mode.

You already have the ability to fill up one screen with one app while filling up your other screen with another app without using full screen mode. So full screen mode gives you yet another entirely different option. If it instead worked the way some people want it to work, that would be rather redundant because it is already possible to do that without going into Full Screen Mode and you would therefore lose the option Full Screen Mode now gives you (provided that the developer supports it in their app of course).
While that is OK for apps that support it, it is not how I want it to work all of the time.

I don't want the second monitor relegated to extra panels of whatever is running fullscreen on the other monitor.

I want to run one monitor full screen and then anything else of my choosing on the second monitor--even another full screen app. I don't care if the intent was to give me a "distraction-free and focused workspace." If I want that I can simply choose to not run anything on the second monitor.



Michael

bedifferent
May 8, 2012, 02:19 PM
While that is OK for apps that support it, it is not how I want it to work all of the time.

I don't want the second monitor relegated to extra panels of whatever is running fullscreen on the other monitor.

I want to run one monitor full screen and then anything else of my choosing on the second monitor--even another full screen app. I don't care if the intent was to give me a "distraction-free and focused workspace." If I want that I can simply choose to not run anything on the second monitor.



Michael

^This. Exactly what I attempted to describe as another suggestion. It's great you can use toolbars, et al for the fullscreen app you are in on the second display, but what if I want something else unassociated with that app? I sometimes have EyeTV running on my second display watching the news or such while I work on my primary display (usually I am working on both). Currently, you can't.

newagemac
May 8, 2012, 02:36 PM
While that is OK for apps that support it, it is not how I want it to work all of the time.

I don't want the second monitor relegated to extra panels of whatever is running fullscreen on the other monitor.

I want to run one monitor full screen and then anything else of my choosing on the second monitor--even another full screen app. I don't care if the intent was to give me a "distraction-free and focused workspace." If I want that I can simply choose to not run anything on the second monitor.



Michael

You already have that option. I don't see why people don't understand this but let me explain one more time. If you don't want a distraction-free, single app focused workspace then don't turn on Full Screen Mode. Just maximize the window like you did in Snow Leopard and let your apps work the way the always have in Snow Leopard. Lion's full screen mode isn't taking anything away. It's an additional feature that allows for a distraction-free workspace and as explained previously it supports dual monitors.

If it worked the same way maximizing the windows has always worked, what would be the point of it? Wouldn't that just be a redundant feature since you can already do this without Full Screen Mode?

Full Screen Mode works the way it does because it is intended to be an entirely different option and way of working. There is no point in duplicating a way of working that already exists in the OS without Full Screen Mode.

----------

^This. Exactly what I attempted to describe as another suggestion. It's great you can use toolbars, et al for the fullscreen app you are in on the second display, but what if I want something else unassociated with that app? I sometimes have EyeTV running on my second display watching the news or such while I work on my primary display (usually I am working on both). Currently, you can't.

Again, obviously if you want EyeTV running while you work you aren't looking for a distraction-free app focused work environment at that time. So then don't enable Full Screen Mode in that situation. It's as simple as that. If Full Screen Mode works like you want it to work, then where is the option to work in a distraction-free app-focused environment? Why duplicate an option that already exists?

Blipp
May 8, 2012, 02:43 PM
This is probably going to be news to a whole lot of people but multi-monitor support in Lion and Mountain Lion while in full screen mode actually does work. Yes you can already use a second monitor in full screen mode in Lion.

Let me explain...

The intended purpose of full screen mode is to give you distraction-free and focused workspace for whatever application you are currently working on while allowing you to easily swipe to other apps for multitasking. But yes, full screen mode does allow you to use a second screen while full screen mode is active. It just works differently.

While it's true that other apps can't show on the second screen, the developer of the app can make the panels for the current app/document show on the second screen. For an example of this, take a look at Apple's Keynote and Numbers apps. If you open their inspection panels and move them to your second display and then go into Lion's Full Screen Mode, the inspection panels all show up on the second monitor on top of the gray linen background.

In this way, full screen mode still serves it's purpose of being distraction free and focusing on the particular app but at the same time it utilizes your second display for secondary windows and panels produced by the current app you're working on.

The problem currently is that most app developers have yet to fully make their apps work as intended by Apple in Full Screen Mode.

You already have the ability to fill up one screen with one app while filling up your other screen with another app without using full screen mode. So full screen mode gives you yet another entirely different option. If it instead worked the way some people want it to work, that would be rather redundant because it is already possible to do that without going into Full Screen Mode and you would therefore lose the option Full Screen Mode now gives you (provided that the developer supports it in their app of course).

The problem is I don't want an app deciding for me whether it will consume both monitors or not. If I click to fullscreen an app I do not want it's default behavior to take away my second display which may have a collection of other windows or more preferably even an entirely independent fullscreen app running. I'd much prefer to have a toggle that allows me to expand a fullscreen app's space consumption across both monitors as I see fit. It allows me to configure apps or even a collection of apps to meet my workflow requirements. Different apps will require different configurations and a blanket setting to consume both monitors across the board is unsatisfactory.

The fact that very few developers have utilized the built in multidisplay functionality is further proof that most apps don't need that second display and if they do then I want to be the one that makes that determination.

bedifferent
May 8, 2012, 02:44 PM
Again, obviously if you want EyeTV running while you work you aren't looking for a distraction-free app focused work environment at that time. So then don't enable Full Screen Mode in that situation. It's as simple as that. If Full Screen Mode works like you want it to work, then where is the option to work in a distraction-free app-focused environment? Why duplicate an option that already exists?

Not all the time, only when I am working on one display/project and it's more for background noise (plus I am darn good at multitasking :) ).

Fullscreen mode isn't simply for a "distraction free" work environment. As an ADC member its primary focus was making the most desktop real estate usage on OS X systems with one display such as notebook's and iMac's. Apple's target market with this feature is the consumer market. Apple engineers requested focus on fullscreen app's primarily with 1 display. Yet many of us filed UI reports since Lion DP1 regarding fullscreen implementation on 2+ displays. The reported bugs are acknowledged by Apple engineers, however that doesn't necessarily equate to remedying the situation.

It's a great feature but engineered for 1 display systems (iMac's, MacBook Pro's). Apple engineers weren't concerned at the time with implementing it on more displays even though fullscreen mode can be used well for multiple monitors, and not because it's a distraction free work method. I can easily be distracted when using fullscreen mode, I mean it's not - what was that? Was that a plane? I need coffee, sleepy - oh, where was I? Oh yeah, fullscreen mode :p

Tinmania
May 8, 2012, 02:49 PM
You already have that option. I don't see why people don't understand this but let me explain one more time.
You don't need to explain. I have to ask you though, did you even think that through?

Maximizing an app is not at all the same as fullscreen mode. Right from the start I would have to get it maximised, which could vary from app to app. If I use the green window control button in iTunes it turns it into a mini player. If I do it in a browser, like Chrome or Safari, it only increases vertical height, not horizontal. So then I have to manually re-size it horizontally. With fullscreen mode it is just command-option-f. Done. (And the second monitor is "done" too, unfortunately.)

Then when I get an app maximized I am still giving up screen real estate to the menu bar and, if it is not set to auto hide, the dock. If I am on my 11" mb air screen real estate is at a premium.

In its current form, fullscreen mode is indeed "broken" and why, as the title of this thread suggests, is in need of a "fix."


P.S. - No offense but if you use "distraction-free app focused work environment" again I am going to puke.




Michael

JohnDoe98
May 8, 2012, 02:58 PM
Of course there is. Just drag the menu bar to the display that you want to use as the primary one.

Image (http://f.cl.ly/items/3P1t1L1O1N3S201f3Y0q/primary.png)

Cool ty

talmy
May 8, 2012, 03:08 PM
It's a great feature but engineered for 1 display systems (iMac's, MacBook Pro's).

I'd take it a bit further -- It's a great feature but engineered for small 1 display systems (MacBook Airs and 13" MacBook Pro's) which have very limited screen area.

Lion's Full screen mode, which is fully implemented in Aperture (it will use additional monitors) is however broken in that it now has added animations going into and out of full screen (OS X Lion wants to animate changing Desktops) so the switch is much slower than before. Parallels added Lion Full Screen mode and then backtracked and made it optional because of customer complaints who wanted to run full screen virtual machines on additional monitors.

And while they are not at it, I guess they won't fix multiple monitor operation of Mission Control -- you can't drag an app window between monitors nor can you change one monitor's desktop while not changing the other.

bedifferent
May 8, 2012, 05:26 PM
I'd take it a bit further -- It's a great feature but engineered for small 1 display systems (MacBook Airs and 13" MacBook Pro's) which have very limited screen area.

Lion's Full screen mode, which is fully implemented in Aperture (it will use additional monitors) is however broken in that it now has added animations going into and out of full screen (OS X Lion wants to animate changing Desktops) so the switch is much slower than before. Parallels added Lion Full Screen mode and then backtracked and made it optional because of customer complaints who wanted to run full screen virtual machines on additional monitors.

And while they are not at it, I guess they won't fix multiple monitor operation of Mission Control -- you can't drag an app window between monitors nor can you change one monitor's desktop while not changing the other.

AMEN. Excellent points sir! Mission Control is a major contention with dual displays. It simply displays the same setup on both displays, and is an eye sore compared to Spaces in 10.5/6 which was simple and straight forward. Plus if you dragged a window into the wrong space in 10.5/6 you did not have to leave the app or move to the desktop to retrieve it as in MC, just simply drag and drop it again into the right space.

Mission Control is consumer eye candy; it has some pro's but add's more steps into workflows that aren't necessary.

WSR
May 8, 2012, 08:00 PM
... Lion's full screen mode isn't taking anything away. ...


Actually, Lion's Full-Screen mode took away grid-based Spaces as it is in SL which a number of us preferred.

TheGdog
May 8, 2012, 08:15 PM
Actually, Lion's Full-Screen mode took away grid-based Spaces as it is in SL which a number of us preferred.

I found spaces to be flawed also. Many apps that you would put in a fullscreen mode or a fullscreen video, would often reset when I switched a different space and then back.

I think Mission Control should show up on each display as a seperate instance and you can drag apps back and forth.

bjm2660
May 15, 2012, 09:08 AM
I have an external monitor I never use because I don't like having to completely reconfigure my windows/spaces/full-screens. The Lion Mission Control implementation on my MBP13 works very well. The problem is, that's the only setup that works.

Costee
May 17, 2012, 03:37 PM
Good old times are still advertised on Apple's YouTube channel:

PurrBall
May 17, 2012, 04:57 PM
Parallels added Lion Full Screen mode and then backtracked and made it optional because of customer complaints who wanted to run full screen virtual machines on additional monitors.

Interesting, because this works just fine in VMware with Lion's full screen mode on.

Phil A.
May 17, 2012, 05:18 PM
Interesting, because this works just fine in VMware with Lion's full screen mode on.

VMWare use a slightly different (and much better IMO) tack for their full screen support: If you have a single monitor, going full screen uses OS X's built in full screen functionality. If you have more than one monitor, it uses the old VMWare full screen method that has always been there. Both ways work from the same "full screen" button and it's seamless to the user.

Tinmania
May 17, 2012, 06:24 PM
VMWare use a slightly different (and much better IMO) tack for their full screen support: If you have a single monitor, going full screen uses OS X's built in full screen functionality. If you have more than one monitor, it uses the old VMWare full screen method that has always been there. Both ways work from the same "full screen" button and it's seamless to the user.

I have to say that is an elegant solution for the (IMO broken) Lion fullscreen implementation.




Michael

PurrBall
May 17, 2012, 08:29 PM
VMWare use a slightly different (and much better IMO) tack for their full screen support: If you have a single monitor, going full screen uses OS X's built in full screen functionality. If you have more than one monitor, it uses the old VMWare full screen method that has always been there. Both ways work from the same "full screen" button and it's seamless to the user.

Are you sure? I know this used to be the case, but I'm pretty sure they updated it again to allow multi-screen support using OS X's built in functionality (even showing up properly as a separate space in Mission Control). I haven't used an external display for a while though, so things may have changed again.

Phil A.
May 18, 2012, 07:17 AM
Are you sure? I know this used to be the case, but I'm pretty sure they updated it again to allow multi-screen support using OS X's built in functionality (even showing up properly as a separate space in Mission Control). I haven't used an external display for a while though, so things may have changed again.

Yeah - I've just double checked. If you have multiple monitors, it doesn't show up as a separate space but is just a full screen window. (this is using the Fusion Tech Preview on ML, and it's the same with the latest version of Fusion on Lion)

shurcooL
May 18, 2012, 11:33 AM
This is probably going to be news to a whole lot of people but multi-monitor support in Lion and Mountain Lion while in full screen mode actually does work. Yes you can already use a second monitor in full screen mode in Lion.

Let me explain...

The intended purpose of full screen mode is to give you distraction-free and focused workspace for whatever application you are currently working on while allowing you to easily swipe to other apps for multitasking. But yes, full screen mode does allow you to use a second screen while full screen mode is active. It just works differently.

While it's true that other apps can't show on the second screen, the developer of the app can make the panels for the current app/document show on the second screen. For an example of this, take a look at Apple's Keynote and Numbers apps. If you open their inspection panels and move them to your second display and then go into Lion's Full Screen Mode, the inspection panels all show up on the second monitor on top of the gray linen background.

In this way, full screen mode still serves it's purpose of being distraction free and focusing on the particular app but at the same time it utilizes your second display for secondary windows and panels produced by the current app you're working on.

The problem currently is that most app developers have yet to fully make their apps work as intended by Apple in Full Screen Mode.

You already have the ability to fill up one screen with one app while filling up your other screen with another app without using full screen mode. So full screen mode gives you yet another entirely different option. If it instead worked the way some people want it to work, that would be rather redundant because it is already possible to do that without going into Full Screen Mode and you would therefore lose the option Full Screen Mode now gives you (provided that the developer supports it in their app of course).
Interesting, thanks a lot for that explanation. It makes a lot of sense.

I've never considered that because I haven't seen a single (Apple-made or otherwise) app use the second monitor somehow.

blackomega31
May 19, 2012, 02:27 PM
Distraction free, focused working environment. What a load of crap.
I run a 22" iMac with another 22" beside It. And If I had my way I would have a third monitor. This fullscreen problem offers nothing useful to the table. I was listening to my iTunes recently added list and happily typing away when the next song happened to be an iMovie I had just shared to iTunes. So instead of just playing the movie osx decided to push Microsoft word away blank my second monitor and play the movie

How exactly is that supposed to be helpful to the end user??? I was so angry I almost broke my keyboard

You should see how many windows I have open. I have attention deficit disorder and in can still multitask and stay focused. Thats why I have an iMac and not an iPad

Come on apple if you can fix mission control and give us the choice on window grouping. I'm asking you, please give me the choice weather or not fullscreen blanks my second screen
All you have done with lion is made the Mac harder to use and or added steps that are unnecessary

WSR
May 19, 2012, 06:13 PM
A distraction-free environment argument only really makes since on a each monitor by itself.

I would think that most people to have multiple monitors, including myself, would want Full-Screen mode to take the app to Full-Screen in a single monitor and leave all other monitors useful to continue to do other stuff. As I type in this reply, I'm also watching a video on my 2nd monitor in Full-Screen mode, but then I'm stlll using SL.

Any blanking of other monitors should really be an option in the app not the operating system. In fact, video players should have the ability to detect the "Put Display to Sleep" event in Expose and then put all other monitors to sleep, but leave the monitor with the video on. This way if I wanted to focus on a movie playing on my Mac, I could have the movie play in Full-Screen mode on my 2nd monitor. I would then move my pointer to the bottom left corner of my primary monitor and it would go to sleep so that I could watch the video. Then if say I wanted to look something up on the internet, i.e. where might I have seen that actor before, I would just have to move the mouse, bring up a browser on my primary monitor, look the actor up, and finally put the primary monitor back to sleep all without disturbing the movie.

talmy
May 19, 2012, 07:12 PM
I feel the "problem" with Lion's full screen mode is it is integrated with Spaces -- unlike older full screen implementations, this one creates a new space for the application, which is why it takes over all monitors. It's actually a nice feature if you don't have multiple monitors!

TheGdog
May 19, 2012, 07:28 PM
I feel the "problem" with Lion's full screen mode is it is integrated with Spaces -- unlike older full screen implementations, this one creates a new space for the application, which is why it takes over all monitors. It's actually a nice feature if you don't have multiple monitors!

But the problem is many people use multiple monitors. When I am using Lion on my MB by itself its great, but hook up another monitor and full screen is kinda useless. That being said nobody is making anyone use full screen. Just hide the dock and maximize the window. Is it the best solution? No, but right now its the only one. So far I am living with it ok.

Tinmania
May 19, 2012, 09:13 PM
But the problem is many people use multiple monitors. When I am using Lion on my MB by itself its great, but hook up another monitor and full screen is kinda useless. That being said nobody is making anyone use full screen. Just hide the dock and maximize the window. Is it the best solution? No, but right now its the only one. So far I am living with it ok.
I am not particularly happy with fullscreen implementation even with a single monitor. I think it is how it is married to Spaces.

In particular, I often want to use fullscreen mode when reading a website in a browser. I always have at least two browser windows open at all times--with multiple tabs. As such it is second nature to me to use command-apostrophe to cycle through browser windows.

But if I switch to fullscreen in one browser window I can no longer use command-apostrophe to get to the other open windows. I have to stop and remember, "oh that is in a different Space" and either gesture to switch spaces or do so in MC.

I don't know why I can't cycle through open app windows regardless of their space. Anyone know if there is a preference for that that I might have missed?




Michael

newagemac
May 20, 2012, 12:07 PM
A distraction-free environment argument only really makes since on a each monitor by itself.

I would think that most people to have multiple monitors, including myself, would want Full-Screen mode to take the app to Full-Screen in a single monitor and leave all other monitors useful to continue to do other stuff. As I type in this reply, I'm also watching a video on my 2nd monitor in Full-Screen mode, but then I'm stlll using SL.

Any blanking of other monitors should really be an option in the app not the operating system. In fact, video players should have the ability to detect the "Put Display to Sleep" event in Expose and then put all other monitors to sleep, but leave the monitor with the video on. This way if I wanted to focus on a movie playing on my Mac, I could have the movie play in Full-Screen mode on my 2nd monitor. I would then move my pointer to the bottom left corner of my primary monitor and it would go to sleep so that I could watch the video. Then if say I wanted to look something up on the internet, i.e. where might I have seen that actor before, I would just have to move the mouse, bring up a browser on my primary monitor, look the actor up, and finally put the primary monitor back to sleep all without disturbing the movie.

Did you not read what I wrote? Full screen mode doesn't just blank the second monitor. If the app supports it, the second monitor is used to display secondary panels and windows for the currently active app. Like I said earlier, most app developers just haven't enabled their apps to take advantage of Full Screen Mode in Lion they way Apple has intended.

Again, open up Numbers or Keynote and move their inspection panels to your second monitor. When you go full Screen Mode, you see those inspection panels on the second monitor instead of just the linen background. This is how the second monitor was intended to work in Full Screen Mode.

WSR
May 20, 2012, 01:02 PM
Did you not read what I wrote? Full screen mode doesn't just blank the second monitor. If the app supports it, the second monitor is used to display secondary panels and windows for the currently active app. Like I said earlier, most app developers just haven't enabled their apps to take advantage of Full Screen Mode in Lion they way Apple has intended.

Again, open up Numbers or Keynote and move their inspection panels to your second monitor. When you go full Screen Mode, you see those inspection panels on the second monitor instead of just the linen background. This is how the second monitor was intended to work in Full Screen Mode.

I'm am aware of this behavior, but note that you are still limited to only windows of that app. Thus, you can't do "other stuff" like have a video in Full-Screen mode and surf the web on the 2nd monitor which is something I do all the time in SL.

Tinmania
May 20, 2012, 02:42 PM
Did you not read what I wrote? Full screen mode doesn't just blank the second monitor. If the app supports it, the second monitor is used to display secondary panels and windows for the currently active app. Like I said earlier, most app developers just haven't enabled their apps to take advantage of Full Screen Mode in Lion they way Apple has intended.

Again, open up Numbers or Keynote and move their inspection panels to your second monitor. When you go full Screen Mode, you see those inspection panels on the second monitor instead of just the linen background. This is how the second monitor was intended to work in Full Screen Mode.

I find it ironic, after reading what came next, that you started this post with, "Did you not read what I wrote?"

It seems you did not read the post you replied to, seeing how you simply repeated the same secondary panels stuff that is already known--and not what some or perhaps many want (at least not without the ability to run a completely separate app on the second display).

Why is that so hard to accept?




Michael

newagemac
May 20, 2012, 10:38 PM
I find it ironic, after reading what came next, that you started this post with, "Did you not read what I wrote?"

It seems you did not read the post you replied to, seeing how you simply repeated the same secondary panels stuff that is already known--and not what some or perhaps many want (at least not without the ability to run a completely separate app on the second display).

Why is that so hard to accept?




Michael

You can already run a completely separate app on the second display if you are not concerned about distractions like video playing on another screen, menu bars showing, and ect. Full Screen Mode is there to help with the other problem that exists which is getting rid of distractions and clutter and allowing you to focus on a particular application while still allowing you to multitask by swiping between desktops.

Not to do something you can already do without Full Screen Mode.

Tinmania
May 21, 2012, 11:44 AM
You can already run a completely separate app on the second display if you are not concerned about distractions like video playing on another screen, menu bars showing, and ect. Full Screen Mode is there to help with the other problem that exists which is getting rid of distractions and clutter and allowing you to focus on a particular application while still allowing you to multitask by swiping between desktops.

Not to do something you can already do without Full Screen Mode.
<groan>

With all due respect in my humble opinion your posts are rather pointless, do not address what you are responding to, and in general seem to be nothing more than the repetition of the same, detached, "distraction free" nonsense.

I feel better now. Thank you.



Michael

WSR
May 21, 2012, 03:19 PM
You can already run a completely separate app on the second display if you are not concerned about distractions like video playing on another screen, menu bars showing, and ect. Full Screen Mode is there to help with the other problem that exists which is getting rid of distractions and clutter and allowing you to focus on a particular application while still allowing you to multitask by swiping between desktops.

Not to do something you can already do without Full Screen Mode.

My original point was that I DON'T want the distractions "menu bars showing, and ect" on the Full-Screen monitor, but I still want the other monitor to be free to work with a different app if I wanted to. Lion doesn't allow that, but Snow Leopard did.

newagemac
May 21, 2012, 04:04 PM
My original point was that I DON'T want the distractions "menu bars showing, and ect" on the Full-Screen monitor, but I still want the other monitor to be free to work with a different app if I wanted to. Lion doesn't allow that, but Snow Leopard did.

That is certainly not true. Lion gives you the exact same functionality Snow Leopard did. How did you do it in Snow Leopard? Try it in Lion and yes it works the exact same way.

talmy
May 21, 2012, 04:43 PM
My original point was that I DON'T want the distractions "menu bars showing, and ect" on the Full-Screen monitor, but I still want the other monitor to be free to work with a different app if I wanted to. Lion doesn't allow that, but Snow Leopard did.

That is certainly not true. Lion gives you the exact same functionality Snow Leopard did. How did you do it in Snow Leopard? Try it in Lion and yes it works the exact same way.

Run Quicktime-X. If you make it full screen in Snow Leopard, you can pick the window it runs full screen in, and use your other monitor for another application. In Lion if you make it full screen it is always on your primary display and you cannot use your other monitor for another application. And full screen is not the same as "maximized" or stretching out an application window to use the full screen, less the bar at the top of the screen.

And it was pointed out that full screen in Fusion and Parallels was also a problem handed by Fusion automatically doing Snow Leopard style full screen for multiple monitor systems and by Parallels doing Snow Leopard style full screen via a configuration option. In no way is the functionality the same.

mcrawley
May 21, 2012, 04:50 PM
nam - While I thank you for some of the new info you added, please understand it is not the same because of the changes that were made when Spaces was dropped in favor of Mission Control in Lion.

Part of this is b/c MC only allows moving between "spaces" on the x axis. So if a app is used in full-screen, it adds the number of spaces to transition through if you are using multiple full-screen apps.

Depending on your job, especially if you where multiple hats, you may end up with a number of spaces. Here is an example of how I used a 27" iMac with a 27" Dell monitor at my last job as web operations manager.

Space 1 imac : Dashboard
Space 1 Dell: Dashboard overflow - nothing on it and wasted

(main working and Content Management)
Space 2 imac: Web Browsers - multiple windows and tabs on various flavors
Space 2 Dell: Mail, Messages for office IM, Adium

(newsfeeds)
Space 3 imac: RadarScope in FullScreen (dealt with sending out severe WX alerts for my multi-site org.
Space 3 Dell: (empty)

(Development working)
Space 4 imac: Kod, Transmit, 3-4 Terminal Windows
Space 4 Dell: Source Tree, Sequel Pro

(newsfeeds)
Space 5 imac: Pulp in Fullscreen
Space 5 Dell: (empty)

(Social)
Space 5 imac: Tweetdeck in Fullscreen with numerous columns watching searches of my org and sub-orgs.
Space 5 Dell: (empty)

I would have loved to combined the Dashboard wasted monitor, the FS RadarScope, the FS Pulp and FS Tweetdeck into pairs of FS apps. Even though I was able to fly through these with a magic mouse and magicPrefs, it would be nice to have those beautiful FS apps with all the dynamic data and devoid of the OS menubars more efficiently grouped.

Some programs are beginning to change what, how they present in FS mode (see Pulp's drawer functionality for instance). It subtly changes how it does things between window mode and FS to use space more efficiently.

Apple is doing this as well. QT in Lion does not operate the same as on SL when trying to fill the screen. The button on the controller that used to be "Fill to Screen" (with letter-boxing bars) in SL is now "Full Screen" in Lion. And for videos that are not 16:9, there is now NO way to fill to screen without losing the second monitor. (Look for yourself with a 4:3 video - Cmd-3 is "Fit to screen" is done without blackout bars and the Cmd-4 "Fill Screen" is greyed out.) So what you are suggesting is impossible.

Tinmania
May 21, 2012, 04:52 PM
That is certainly not true. Lion gives you the exact same functionality Snow Leopard did. How did you do it in Snow Leopard? Try it in Lion and yes it works the exact same way.
Wrong. In SL I used to run a full-screen app (e.g., a video) on one display--yes, sans menu bar and other "distractions"--and at the same time run something completely unrelated on the second monitor. Plus, I wasn't forced to run full-screen only on main monitor.

As far as "distractions" are concerned switching monitors on me when I didn't ask for it is a helluva distraction. But that is exactly what Lion does if I enter fullscreen mode on my second or third monitor.

Lion most certainly does not work "the exact same way" as Snow Leopard.




Michael

newagemac
May 21, 2012, 06:24 PM
Wrong. In SL I used to run a full-screen app (e.g., a video) on one display--yes, sans menu bar and other "distractions"--and at the same time run something completely unrelated on the second monitor. Plus, I wasn't forced to run full-screen only on main monitor.

As far as "distractions" are concerned switching monitors on me when I didn't ask for it is a helluva distraction. But that is exactly what Lion does if I enter fullscreen mode on my second or third monitor.

Lion most certainly does not work "the exact same way" as Snow Leopard.




Michael


So how did you go into full screen as you described on Snow Leopard?

Tinmania
May 21, 2012, 07:09 PM
So how did you go into full screen as you described on Snow Leopard?

I clicked my shoes together three times and said "there's no place like full-screen."

Honestly, I am a little puzzled you would ask such a basic question. But OK I will bite. If I was watching a video, presumably it was in VLC, I would have just double clicked the video window. Voila, full-screen.

Fortunately VLC has added a way to not use Lion's full-screen mode and go back to the old way. But not all apps have those options.





Mike

gentlefury
Jun 14, 2012, 11:45 AM
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jS4-9yCWsKA/T9oVDcM-rYI/AAAAAAAAFBg/qy1ZxCim9Kw/s349/Screen%2520Shot%25202012-06-14%2520at%25209.44.42%2520AM.png

after recent keynote :)

talmy
Jun 14, 2012, 11:56 AM
Image (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-jS4-9yCWsKA/T9oVDcM-rYI/AAAAAAAAFBg/qy1ZxCim9Kw/s349/Screen%2520Shot%25202012-06-14%2520at%25209.44.42%2520AM.png)

after recent keynote :)

Well, that's halfway there. Now if you could run something else on the other monitor we would be nicely back to Snow Leopard's capabilities!

gentlefury
Jun 14, 2012, 12:49 PM
Well, that's halfway there. Now if you could run something else on the other monitor we would be nicely back to Snow Leopard's capabilities!

are you sure you can't? Sounds me to me like it will leave the other display free to run another. If not, its a pointless fix.

rburkat
Jun 14, 2012, 03:53 PM
So we just set up a 6 display analytics panel at our company. The analytics software runs in a browser so we simply got 3 new macminis and attached to each 2 monitors with the intent of cmd-f chrome to display a full screen analytics page ( maps, graphs, etc ).
Of course on Lion the other screen is unusable if you use a "full screen" app.
Simple maximizing the browser on each panel and having the borders is not desirable.

Solution: Use an ancient version of Chrome ( version 8 in this case ) that was available pre lion and therefore is unaware the os full screen crap. This allows chrome to go full screen on each.

For the next 3 minis I bought I ended up buying previous gen hardware with snow leaopard so I was not limited by Lion.

Verdict: If users of the product are forced to buy previous gen hardware or use 3 year old app versions to get functionality that existed previously, this might be a sign that something needs to be fixed.


Note: We tried putting SL on the new mac minis but there really seems to be some problems with some drivers. I did revert to SL on my early 2012 MBP but this is because SL was available on this in early 2011 and I happen to have a disk from that machine.

Note 2: I HATE that I can't run the new version on xcode on my SL mbp I actually have a second machine that has Lion ONLY because I need it for the latest XCode. Yes, I jump through all these hoops of multiple machines, downgrading OSs, etc just because of some show stopper, undesirable features in Lion that prevents me from using it as my main OS.

Please Apple, help me, help you.

talmy
Jun 15, 2012, 08:33 AM
are you sure you can't? Sounds me to me like it will leave the other display free to run another. If not, its a pointless fix.

I was just able to check. Only ML-aware apps, at the moment those that come with ML, can run in either screen, so it seems to be a new feature in the ML API. However you still cannot run separate full screen apps on different monitors simultaneously. It's not pointless since you could run something full screen on an attached projector or large screen TV, but it's not really what most of of want!

Solution: Use an ancient version of Chrome ( version 8 in this case ) that was available pre lion and therefore is unaware the os full screen crap. This allows chrome to go full screen on each.

You could use the current version of Firefox as well. Not all applications have bought into the Lion full screen API.

haravikk
Jun 16, 2012, 04:40 AM
This is incredibly annoying, and it's easily my biggest gripe with Lion; I was looking forward to finally having fullscreen support in Safari, but instead I'm just using a maximised window like I always have, and that doesn't seem like it's going to change for Mountain Lion.

As I see it the problem is partly how to handle transitioning via Mission Control/Spaces, and how to do the menu bar. In the past, a full-screen app on a secondary monitor would still pull up the normal menu bar, ideally each screen should get its own menu bar (or rather, each full-screen app should get its own menu bar on the screen it's on, with secondary screens skipping things like menubar widgets, clock, etc.).

Still, even with proper Fullscreen support on multiple monitors, it still wouldn't solve cases where you want two different windows of a single app full-screened on different displays. In Quicktime 7 for example it's possible to watch two movies simultaneously on different screens. I suppose Apps could probably implement this, but it'd be a pain to do right.

On that note, has anyone tried Quicktime 7 on Mountain Lion? Support for Perian and proper full-screen support (as well as the much more precise skipping around within movies) are still years ahead of Quicktime X's backwards behaviours.


At the end of the day though, Fullscreen apps are just not a feature suitable for desktops. What we need are Fullscreen windows, which sounds similar but is functionally very different in practise.

sflomenb
Jun 17, 2012, 05:47 PM
From http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html#system

"Go full screen on any display
If you have a secondary display connected to your Mac, you can take an app full screen on either display. Drag the window to the desired display and click the full-screen button."

Icy1007
Jun 17, 2012, 11:38 PM
From http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html#system

"Go full screen on any display
If you have a secondary display connected to your Mac, you can take an app full screen on either display. Drag the window to the desired display and click the full-screen button."

Yep, so that should mean that it is fixed.

haravikk
Jun 18, 2012, 04:17 AM
Go full screen on any display
If you have a secondary display connected to your Mac, you can take an app full screen on either display. Drag the window to the desired display and click the full-screen button.
Unfortunately it's not a fix, as you're only now getting to choose which screen(s) are blanked, rather than it always being the primary display. It'd be fine if Apps could decide not to blank the other screen(s), but that doesn't appear to be the case; you get one app in fullscreen visible at a time, or don't use fullscreen, which is a pretty poor choice.
Especially when Quicktime 7's behaviour was essentially perfect; I really hated Quicktime 7 at the time, but when I started using Quicktime X on Lion I soon realised how good we'd had it in the past!

talmy
Jun 18, 2012, 08:00 AM
Especially when Quicktime 7's behaviour was essentially perfect; I really hated Quicktime 7 at the time, but when I started using Quicktime X on Lion I soon realised how good we'd had it in the past!

The past is TODAY! QT7 still works.

Asmod4n
Jun 18, 2012, 11:11 AM
It's fixed, you can have a fullscreen app on any connected screen and the others don't get the linen window.

cmChimera
Jun 18, 2012, 12:18 PM
It's fixed, you can have a fullscreen app on any connected screen and the others don't get the linen window.

Picture please? There are others saying that that's not true.

mindlessmissy
Jun 18, 2012, 01:28 PM
-----------------------------------------

diogolg
Jun 18, 2012, 01:42 PM
I can verify that the issue of fullscreen on one screen while the other is available for other apps/functions HAS BEEN FIXED in DP4 ...

Don't have a screenshot BUT I just tried watching a movie on Movist on one screen and the other screen was there for me to browse the web on Safari ...

NO MORE LINEN ! :D :D :D

Have you tried that with other app? Because on Lion I can use MplayerX on fullscrenn mode and the other monitor still available to use.


--

Actually, MPlayerX doesn't use the "real" full-screen I just went to mission control and it's not in his own space...

Mad Mac Maniac
Jun 18, 2012, 01:48 PM
I can verify that the issue of fullscreen on one screen while the other is available for other apps/functions HAS BEEN FIXED in DP4 ...

Don't have a screenshot BUT I just tried watching a movie on Movist on one screen and the other screen was there for me to browse the web on Safari ...

NO MORE LINEN ! :D :D :D

Wow really?? I'm quite shocked... How about two full screen apps? Is that a no-go?

Tinmania
Jun 18, 2012, 01:53 PM
Wow really?? I'm quite shocked... How about two full screen apps? Is that a no-go?

I think I read that is still a no-go.

But for me, just allowing one screen fullscreen while I can run a different app(s) on another monitor(s) is good enough.




Michael

Mad Mac Maniac
Jun 18, 2012, 02:15 PM
I think I read that is still a no-go.

But for me, just allowing one screen fullscreen while I can run a different app(s) on another monitor(s) is good enough.



Yeah. I'm interested to understand it's behavior though. Specifically how do 3 finger swipes to change spaces work.

Does it automatically change spaces in the primary monitor? Does it change spaces in whatever monitor the cursor is on? Does this allow for two separate "desktop spaces" on two different monitors? If so, then whats to stop two separate full screen apps on two different monitors? Maybe there is no 3 finger swipe to change spaces when using both monitors? What does invoking mission control do on your screens?

haravikk
Jun 18, 2012, 03:48 PM
The past is TODAY! QT7 still works.
I know, but my point is that it highlights how the Fullscreen feature should work, unfortunately it's now the only Apple app that seems to :(

Don't have a screenshot BUT I just tried watching a movie on Movist on one screen and the other screen was there for me to browse the web on Safari ...
Can you please verify that Movist uses the Fullscreen feature introduced by Lion/Mountain Lion? VLC for example works fine across multiple screens but that's because it doesn't use the Fullscreen feature, it just uses old-style fullscreen windows.

mindlessmissy
Jun 18, 2012, 05:05 PM
--------------------------------------

mindlessmissy
Jun 18, 2012, 05:31 PM
Can you please verify that Movist uses the Fullscreen feature introduced by Lion/Mountain Lion? VLC for example works fine across multiple screens but that's because it doesn't use the Fullscreen feature, it just uses old-style fullscreen windows.

OK ... strike all that...

After further checking it looks like NOTHING changed ...

Sorry for the false info ...

gentlefury
Jun 25, 2012, 09:17 AM
I was just able to check. Only ML-aware apps, at the moment those that come with ML, can run in either screen, so it seems to be a new feature in the ML API. However you still cannot run separate full screen apps on different monitors simultaneously. It's not pointless since you could run something full screen on an attached projector or large screen TV, but it's not really what most of of want!



You could use the current version of Firefox as well. Not all applications have bought into the Lion full screen API.

Hopefully they will advance that by release to make it so you can have a full screen app on all available screens.

talmy
Jun 25, 2012, 09:42 AM
Hopefully they will advance that by release to make it so you can have a full screen app on all available screens.

Not likely. Apple's idea of "full screen" is that only one app shows at a time, no matter how many screens you have, so you can concentrate on that single app without distractions. Consider that with Lion Full Screen a full screen application now gets it's own desktop (this wasn't the case before) they would have to go with the ability to switch desktops per screen which would be complicated for the user (do you move the cursor to the screen you want to switch and swipe from there?? and how do you switch the entire desktop in that case??).

throAU
Jun 25, 2012, 09:46 AM
I'd take it a bit further -- It's a great feature but engineered for small 1 display systems (MacBook Airs and 13" MacBook Pro's) which have very limited screen area.
.

Dunno about that. I have a 15" hires and i love full screen mode.

gentlefury
Jun 25, 2012, 10:37 AM
Not likely. Apple's idea of "full screen" is that only one app shows at a time, no matter how many screens you have, so you can concentrate on that single app without distractions. Consider that with Lion Full Screen a full screen application now gets it's own desktop (this wasn't the case before) they would have to go with the ability to switch desktops per screen which would be complicated for the user (do you move the cursor to the screen you want to switch and swipe from there?? and how do you switch the entire desktop in that case??).

I would say, if you have 2 displays and you have two apps on said displays they both count as one desktop. So when you swipe they would both go and reveal the next set of desktops....exactly how it works now for non-full screen apps. Doesn't seem too complicated to me.

talmy
Jun 25, 2012, 11:10 AM
I would say, if you have 2 displays and you have two apps on said displays they both count as one desktop. So when you swipe they would both go and reveal the next set of desktops....exactly how it works now for non-full screen apps. Doesn't seem too complicated to me.

But think this through: at the time you make an app go full screen you can't be in a full screen desktop, and it always creates a new full screen desktop for the app. There is no way to place a second app on an existing full screen desktop. If you wanted that capability then you would need some way to specify the desktop you want the app to go full screen on, and that would complicate matters. The alternative would be to have the Desktops switch independently on each screen, which is also full of problems. And I haven't even addressed the issue that Lion Full Screen apps can make use of multiple screens (for instance, Aperture can display an image full screen on a second monitor while showing a screenful of thumbnail images on the first monitor.

gentlefury
Jun 26, 2012, 09:12 AM
But think this through: at the time you make an app go full screen you can't be in a full screen desktop, and it always creates a new full screen desktop for the app. There is no way to place a second app on an existing full screen desktop. If you wanted that capability then you would need some way to specify the desktop you want the app to go full screen on, and that would complicate matters. The alternative would be to have the Desktops switch independently on each screen, which is also full of problems. And I haven't even addressed the issue that Lion Full Screen apps can make use of multiple screens (for instance, Aperture can display an image full screen on a second monitor while showing a screenful of thumbnail images on the first monitor.

How is this difficult in any way? If I have an application in screen one and an application in screen 2 (both not full screen) and I swipe to desktop two, both screens shift to make way for the next 2 desktops. Just treat full screen exactly the same as pressing the plus button. Fill the screen....and leave the desktop on the other screens alone. There is nothing complicated about this in any way.

talmy
Jun 28, 2012, 08:21 AM
Just treat full screen exactly the same as pressing the plus button. Fill the screen....and leave the desktop on the other screens alone. There is nothing complicated about this in any way.

That's exactly what it does! But the problem is, it does this for every app that goes full screen, so each app that goes full screen does the implicit plus button push, and ends up on a new desktop. Two fullscreen apps can never share the same desktop!

PurrBall
Jun 28, 2012, 08:34 AM
I think the only way to solve this is to make Spaces independent of different monitors. For example, switching from Space 1 to Space 2 on one monitor, the other monitor is the same as it was, on Space 5 for example.

joetweber
Aug 3, 2012, 10:34 AM
It's another example of users needing to post their thoughts on http://bugreport.apple.com.

Thanks for the suggestion. Here's my bug report; feel free to use the screenshot in one of your own:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2862/screenshotmhh.jpg

talmy
Aug 3, 2012, 11:39 AM
Thanks for the suggestion. Here's my bug report; feel free to use the screenshot in one of your own:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2862/screenshotmhh.jpg

If they were to respond it would be "working as designed". They don't consider this Lion feature to be a bug. The problem with the new "full screen" is that it creates a new space that cannot be shared, rather than what used to happen (for the few apps that had full screen implemented on their own) where the app would become full screen in the current space. The new full screen feature was designed for single monitor systems and allow you to quickly flip between full screen apps. Programs can still support the older full screen techniques. The way to complain is to submit bug reports for those applications that don't support the old full screen. As an alternative, just don't use full screen.

It's basically a losing battle as Macs for which the new full screen operation is better are becoming an increasingly larger percentage of Macs sold.

haravikk
Aug 5, 2012, 04:43 AM
It's basically a losing battle as Macs for which the new full screen operation is better are becoming an increasingly larger percentage of Macs sold.
Given that Apple are pushing their displays as the perfect companions for laptops, and with AirPlay now available, I think that multi-screen setups are becoming more of a reality. Granted, AirPlay currently only mirrors the screen (unless I've missed a setting somehow), but there seems no reason that shouldn't be able to work as an additional screen in future to make it better for presenting only some of the screen contents.

So I don't think optimising fullscreen for single monitors is a good move, as it unnecessarily limits everyone, and I can't believe it's beyond Apple's abilities to handle fullscreen more intelligently. Blanking out other screens is just a huge step back.

Icy1007
Aug 5, 2012, 05:11 AM
You can now use a full screen app on any monitor you want. It won't move to the primary monitor in ML, but it makes the other monitor(s) display the giant linen background.

So you can't use two full-screen apps at the same time. :(

sindekit
Sep 21, 2012, 09:44 PM
You can now use a full screen app on any monitor you want. It won't move to the primary monitor in ML, but it makes the other monitor(s) display the giant linen background.

So you can't use two full-screen apps at the same time. :(

Why did they make it like that? I only bought ML cause I thought you can finally full screen on multiple monitors :(

chrono1081
Sep 21, 2012, 09:55 PM
Why did they make it like that? I only bought ML cause I thought you can finally full screen on multiple monitors :(

There's technically nothing wrong with full screen on multiple monitors. Some applications when going in to full screen use both screens.

If the developer doesn't choose to do this, then you'll have one screen empty while the other screen has the application on it.

What people are after is an app that only goes full screen on one monitor, not both. This would screw with apps supporting dual displays.

sindekit
Sep 22, 2012, 12:42 AM
There's technically nothing wrong with full screen on multiple monitors. Some applications when going in to full screen use both screens.

If the developer doesn't choose to do this, then you'll have one screen empty while the other screen has the application on it.

What people are after is an app that only goes full screen on one monitor, not both. This would screw with apps supporting dual displays.

I guess I worded my statement improperly! I actually want two DIFFERENT full screen apps on two separate monitors.

Ah, I guess I'm just stuck making the app the largest window possible.

shurcooL
Sep 22, 2012, 03:37 PM
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/408/imagevk.png

Learn to use it.

Apple should fix it to make it work the way you'd expect: maximize/restore windows.

They should also do something similar to how Windows 7/8 lets you snap windows to full/left half/right half of screen.

talmy
Sep 22, 2012, 09:38 PM
They should also do something similar to how Windows 7/8 lets you snap windows to full/left half/right half of screen.

Get BetterSnapTool from the Mac App Store or BetterTouchTool (same author) from his web site.

mhadi
Sep 24, 2012, 09:26 PM
Image (http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/408/imagevk.png)

Learn to use it.

Apple should fix it to make it work the way you'd expect: maximize/restore windows.


Correct... except its functionality is not consistent across all apps - even Apple's own... So as you say, Apple should fix it.

The Mail app maximizes to fill the entire screen (less the menu bar and dock) - regardless of its original size and position - and restores to its original size and position. Perfect.

Notes, Calendar, Terminal, Console - and many others - The maximize/restore button works as one would expect.

However, Safari only maximizes and restores vertically - the horizontal width does not change. Menu->Window->Zoom has the same effect.

iTunes, it sends the window to MiniPlayer. However, Menu->Window->Zoom does in fact take the app fullscreen.

I think that if this little button provided the same results no matter which app was being used, many complaints would die right there.

Trust me, I understand exactly what people are complaining about (and I whole-heartedly agree). But at the same time, I think that there are 2 completely different things being used/understood/misunderstood/talked about: Full screen vs Full Desktop... and Apple is half the problem here.

No matter how many monitors a user has (2, 3, 4, etc) - a "Full Desktop" is always the conglomeration of all monitors... period. On the other hand, the term "Full Screen" should pertain to a single monitor <-- and this is the perception many people have, including myself. Apple has labeled, what is really Full Desktop, as Full Screen. We should not have to resort to third-party solutions. Unfortunately, I don't see Apple doing anything about it.

My .02

talmy
Sep 24, 2012, 09:57 PM
The "Maximize" button is not a "Maximize" button at all but is an "optimal size" button (a Mac is not a MS Windows system). It will adjust the size of the window optimally, which isn't necessarily the display size. For instance Safari *will* adjust the width to that which is optimal for the site while making the window as tall as possible. A word processor (such as Microsoft Word or Pages) will adjust the width to the with of the document at the current magnification.

shurcooL
Sep 24, 2012, 11:23 PM
Correct... except its functionality is not consistent across all apps - even Apple's own... So as you say, Apple should fix it.

No matter how many monitors a user has (2, 3, 4, etc) - a "Full Desktop" is always the conglomeration of all monitors... period. On the other hand, the term "Full Screen" should pertain to a single monitor <-- and this is the perception many people have, including myself. Apple has labeled, what is really Full Desktop, as Full Screen.
I agree. Very good post.

The "Maximize" button is not a "Maximize" button at all but is an "optimal size" button (a Mac is not a MS Windows system). It will adjust the size of the window optimally, which isn't necessarily the display size.
In theory, yes.

In practice, more often it fails to make the window wide enough.