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yzeater
Oct 30, 2002, 04:52 PM
Hey Guys-
I spent a little time talking to a PC using friend of mine the other day. This is a copy of our conversation. He seems to be pretty down on Macs, is any of what he says true?

me: http://www.macboy.com/cartoons/switch/gates/index.html
him: haha
me: http://www.futuremechanix.com/mr/switch/switch-gates.mov
him: hahaha
me: aren't those great?
him: yeah
him: 2nd was the best
me: that's real footage!
him: its too bad mac os 10 sucks
him: I hate it
me: why?
him: cant navigate around
me: why do you say that?
him: or manage more than one open window
him: and it crashes
him: alot
him: way more than windows xp
me: since when?
him: huh?
me: do you have a mac?
him: our apples at school crash all the time
me: what kind?
him: and theyre spankin new
me: what kind
him: g-4 mabye?
him: theyre brand new
me: how much ram?
him: with the latest os
him: 512
him: 40gb hard drives
him: they are good for video editing
him: thats about it
me: when do they crash?
him: just whenever
him: one crashed yesterdy
him: *day
me: why do you say you can't open more than 1 window?
him: you can, but its really annoying to manage
me: why is it?
him: I dont know, I just cant stand it
me: can you tell me any more about your mac problems?
me: I'm really interested
him: they freeze
him: and sometimes the external speaker dosent work
him: for reasons unknown
him: one day it wouldnt work, the next it worked fine
me: do they freeze more often than PCs?
him: not more than windows 98
him: but way more than xp
him: We've had a dell with xp for 6 months and its frozen a total of 3 times
him: the mac's freeze about once a week
me: go to www.apple.com/hardware and confirm what model it is, would ya?
him: ok
him: G-4
me: which G4
me: there's more than 1
him: geez
me: powermac g4?
him: no
me: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/221/wo/wCzZM1bNoHAgLdGuNb2/0.3.0.3.27.37.1.0.1.3.1.3.1.1.0?96,84
me: that?
him: no
me: humm
him: the tower looks like that, but not the face
him: the speaker is on the bottom of the face
him: and the cd drive is on the top
me: http://www.panagas.com/scans_Infrastructure/apple_g3_tower.jpg
me: seperate tower and monitor?
me: http://www.cccoe.k12.ca.us/mdtech/pics/g4.jpg
him: yep
me: which one?
him: looks like the link you just sent me
me: I sent you two links
me: so which link?
me: ...
him: the last one


So if any of you can share insight on his problems, that'd be great. Are these normal problems, is it really difficult to work with multiple windows, etc. Thanks a lot guys
-Stephen

DeadlyBreakfast
Oct 30, 2002, 05:30 PM
him: OS X sucks
me: *loads gun*
him: is crashes way more then XP
me: *aims gun*
him: I just hate it
me *pulls trigger and rids the world of one more ill informed ignoramus*

:D

j/k

Sun Baked
Oct 30, 2002, 05:40 PM
Try a brick they're a lot more fun...

And you end up with a lot less back splatter, and fewer brains on the wall to clean up.

Shrek
Oct 30, 2002, 06:32 PM
:mad: Sounds like another ignorant Mac hater!!! :mad:

tjwett
Oct 30, 2002, 06:57 PM
People have alot of misconceptions about Macs. But I do have to admit one thing; OS X does freeze alot. Atleast once a day for me. The good thing about OS X is that Force Quit actually works.

yzeater
Oct 30, 2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
People have alot of misconceptions about Macs. But I do have to admit one thing; OS X does freeze alot. Atleast once a day for me. The good thing about OS X is that Force Quit actually works.

Everybody else find this to be true?

Shrek
Oct 30, 2002, 07:05 PM
Which version of OSX does your friend use?

RBMaraman
Oct 30, 2002, 07:17 PM
Your always going to have some problems with your computer, but most are user caused. Since I switched to a Mac (August 2001), I have only had 2 problems. Both of which were easily solved. One was a school network glitch that sent a mac virus that ate my HDD, and the other was a bad connector my iBook display had. Since I installed Jaguar, OS X has never crashed. It's sad to see so many misinformed people.

medea
Oct 30, 2002, 07:20 PM
OS X as a system itself has never crashed nor frozen on me, certain programs have such as IE and Chimera, but when a program in X freezes it doesnt affect the rest of the computer so you just force quit it, this "friend" of yours nothing more than an ignorant pc-weenie who has probably never touched a mac in their life. geez...:rolleyes:

tjwett
Oct 30, 2002, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by tjwett
People have alot of misconceptions about Macs. But I do have to admit one thing; OS X does freeze alot. Atleast once a day for me. The good thing about OS X is that Force Quit actually works.

Ammendment: It's my APPLICATIONS that are freezing, not the OS. Mostly IE but I do get the occasional insatnce of Photoshop "unexpectadly" quitting. The OS overall has actually been pretty good until recently. I can't shut down my machine at all. I just get taken back to the Log In screen and have to force power off. And if I unplug headphones from the jack the OS crashes and I'm very quicly taken to the Log In screen. I think these are electronic issues on the board though.

Anon
Oct 30, 2002, 08:03 PM
He may be running 10.0 which wasn't the best version of the Mac OS X. I have a few kernel panics with it. But far less than once a week. 10.2 is alot better. Being a school they may not have any sort of program or even money to constantly update OS to something better like 10.2 Odds are if he doesn't know how to switch between different windows he doesn't know how to force quit programs, so he may think that the application freezes are OS freezes.

He is probably maximizing his windows so can't click on them to change them. I've noticed a lot of Windows users like doing that. They switch between windows by either clicking them on the task bar or doing alt-tab.

yzeater
Oct 30, 2002, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Anon
He is probably maximizing his windows so can't click on them to change them. I've noticed a lot of Windows users like doing that. They switch between windows by either clicking them on the task bar or doing alt-tab.

How does a Jaguar user properly switch between windows?

macmax
Oct 30, 2002, 08:22 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by yzeater
[B]Hey Guys-
I spent a little time talking to a PC using friend of mine the other day. This is a copy of our conversation. He seems to be pretty down on Macs, is any of what he says true?

me: http://www.macboy.com/cartoons/switch/gates/index.html
him: haha
me: http://www.futuremechanix.com/mr/switch/switch-gates.mov
him: hahaha
me: aren't those great?
him: yeah
him: 2nd was the best
me: that's real footage!
him: its too bad mac os 10 sucks
him: I hate it
me: why?
him: cant navigate around
me: why do you say that?
him: or manage more than one open window
him: and it crashes
him: alot
him: way more than windows xp
me: since when?
him: huh?
me: do you have a mac?
him: our apples at school crash all the time
me: what kind?
him: and theyre spankin new
me: what kind
him: g-4 mabye?
him: theyre brand new
me: how much ram?
him: with the latest os
him: 512
him: 40gb hard drives
him: they are good for video editing
him: thats about it
me: when do they crash?
him: just whenever
him: one crashed yesterdy
him: *day
me: why do you say you can't open more than 1 window?
him: you can, but its really annoying to manage
me: why is it?
him: I dont know, I just cant stand it
me: can you tell me any more about your mac problems?
me: I'm really interested
him: they freeze
him: and sometimes the external speaker dosent work
him: for reasons unknown
him: one day it wouldnt work, the next it worked fine
me: do they freeze more often than PCs?
him: not more than windows 98
him: but way more than xp
him: We've had a dell with xp for 6 months and its frozen a total of 3 times
him: the mac's freeze about once a week
me: go to www.apple.com/hardware and confirm what model it is, would ya?
him: ok
him: G-4
me: which G4
me: there's more than 1
him: geez
me: powermac g4?
him: no
me: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/221/wo/wCzZM1bNoHAgLdGuNb2/0.3.0.3.27.37.1.0.1.3.1.3.1.1.0?96,84
me: that?
him: no
me: humm
him: the tower looks like that, but not the face
him: the speaker is on the bottom of the face
him: and the cd drive is on the top
me: http://www.panagas.com/scans_Infrastructure/apple_g3_tower.jpg
me: seperate tower and monitor?
me: http://www.cccoe.k12.ca.us/mdtech/pics/g4.jpg
him: yep
me: which one?
him: looks like the link you just sent me
me: I sent you two links
me: so which link?
me: ...
him: the last one


This is not true.
I have been running macos x for at least a year now and i have never crashed mine, not even once.
I think your friend is pulling your hair or he is a lier

Spike Spiegel
Oct 30, 2002, 08:23 PM
i have never had a crash that i couldnt resolve in 10.2 at first i had a lot of apps crash, but when i called an apple tech, he advised that i start up in 9 and add some prefs, and it helped imeasurably. i have not had one crash since then and my machine is speedy as hell

springscansing
Oct 30, 2002, 08:41 PM
You can set it to work all in one window or seperate windows like OS 9 or XP. Tell him to shut up.

Anon
Oct 30, 2002, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by yzeater


How does a Jaguar user properly switch between windows?

I can't speak for all Jaguar users. I rarely use the alt-tab much in the various versions of Windows I've used. I use the Mac OS pretty much the way I use Windows. I generally run anywhere from 2 to 6 apps and never maximize any window so I can move them around easy enough to click on the one I want to use. In Jaguar if I know I am going to use a window fairly soon and want to get it out of the way for now, I minimize it and it goes down to the dock. When I want it back I just click on it and it comes out of the dock.

I vaguely recall a shortcut like the alt-tab thing but did a search and couldn't find it. I did find something that works fairly well. All you have to do is move your mouse to the icon of the app in the dock that has the window you want. If you have a 2 button mouse right click on it. If you don't have a 2 button mouse click on the application icon and hold it down for a second. A menu with a list of all the windows that program has open will appear and you can click on the right one.

bousozoku
Oct 30, 2002, 09:42 PM
I've seen a lot of PC users who don't use Macs but think they have. They sit down for 10 minutes and decide that Mac OS 9 or X is junk because it doesn't work like Windows.

If they want to get to a window quickly in Mac OS X, they have two ways to do it:

1. Right click on the dock application icon and select the window by name.

2. Select the application by clicking on the dock application icon or Command-Tab to that icon and release, then select the window.

I do have several Carbon applications which freeze/crash regularly with v10.2 but they're due to memory leaks within each application. Jaguar is just more careful about running problem applications. The only one I need daily is Eudora and I could get along without it until the next version is available.

solvs
Oct 30, 2002, 10:19 PM
My Mom has several iMacs (older 350-500 MHz G3s) at her school. Running OS 9.0.4. With a ton of crappy "educational" and "safety" software. The kids still constantly find ways to screw them up. And some of them have bad RAM. Their IT guy is too busy playing video games in the basement to fix any of them when they have a problem, and nobody wants to fill out the paperwork to have Apple come to fix them. So the problems multiply and get worse. I go in there sometimes, and a few minutes later, after playing around a little, they work just fine.

Point being, I doubt it's the computers. To be fair, a lot of WinTels can easily be fixed, or at least wouldn't mess up as much, if the same methods were used. I know a lot of computer people who are still talking about OS 8 (or earlier) pre-G3 Macs as if they were the current offerings (almost as much as Mac people refer to Windows 9x when talking about M$. Almost. Although XP does suck). When I start to tell them about OS X and UNIX, suddenly they become very interested.

It's all about mistaken preconceived notions. On both sides.

bobindashadows
Oct 30, 2002, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by yzeater


Everybody else find this to be true?

I've been using Mac OS X since 10.0. It has frozen once, when I was playing baldur's gate 2, and I got a couple kernel panics when i accidentally jiggled my external CD burner loose while burning from the finder *whoops* and don't think I don't do much with OS X, I've done a lot of mods with it, customed samba, set up web servers, mysql, screwed with files I mean I'm not like a UNIX freak but I do some pretty dangerous stuff with these files (imho, at least). Programs quit at times, but that's true in pretty much every OS. Only in OS X, force quit works, and what's awesome is that in the force quit window, programs that go "not responding" can actually come back to responding. That is pretty much impossible in windows (at least from a few years of my experience).

Jbear
Oct 31, 2002, 11:20 AM
I agree. I'm still running 10.1 and I havent had to shut my computer down or restart in monthes! I even have VPC running in the doc and have for about 2 weeks. No crashes. None. I love OSX. Im almost thinking about installing Jag, but I keep reading about problems people are having. And besides, I like bragging to all my PC friends about my mac uptime!!

jefhatfield
Oct 31, 2002, 12:11 PM
since my apple II+ in 1980 or 81, i have found the ignorant people to usually be the mac users

for the most part, i have not met too many ignorant pc users since many don't care about the mac since it's really no threat to them or to windows

so when i show a pc user a mac for the first time, they usually have a great reaction in favor of the mac from it's looks to the better operating system

i do know of this pc user who likes to believe all computers use DOS and all computers use windows 98 compatible software, regardless...and this user is a phd in math so he knows how to add two plus two...but he probably forgets how to take a **** from time to time and has to consult his textbooks

:D

ninjachild
Oct 31, 2002, 01:38 PM
Just for some more fuel to the fire,

On my girlfriends ibook (700 mhz 256meg ram, combo)
did a clean install of OS X after we got it,
and it has locked up (either will not respond, won't wake up, can't power off etc.. ) probably 6-8 times with just normal use,
i wouldn't say she is a power user or anything or even uses power intensive programs


at my work where i have a dell pentium 4 1.6 with 256 meg ram
etc. etc. and windows XP, i have left it on for 6 months and the only thing (note it didn't even lock up the computer the application just quit responding) that has failed was when i was using the beta version of IE 6, and that's to be expected from beta releases.


so i don't understand why anyone really says that XP is like some crash-amatic OS,

i do agree that windows 98, and the 2000 were blue screen of death generators (seems like all you could get out of them.)

but XP is actually not that bad.

(puts my flame suit on)

JamesDP
Oct 31, 2002, 02:00 PM
I've had to force quit an app only one time since I've had my iBook and I've had Chimera and Mozilla crash on a couple of sites, but I load 'em right back up again and they're fine. And OSX (I'm on 10.2.1) has yet to crash and require me to reboot the system. Everytime I have Windows application crashes at work or at home, I always have to reboot.

I will say that Windows XP in Virtual PC has yet to crash also(they might have actually done something right with an OS, albeit it's a bloated one - had to turn off all the eye candy), whereas my Windows 98 machine at work needs to be rebooted twice a day and my last PC with Windows Me (worst.OS.ever.) crashed every 15-30 minutes without fail.

Since I'm just a noob though, I can't offer any explanations or solutions to why someone's system running OSX would crash so much - it seems beyond rock solid to me.

medea
Oct 31, 2002, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by ninjachild
Just for some more fuel to the fire,

On my girlfriends ibook (700 mhz 256meg ram, combo)
did a clean install of OS X after we got it,
and it has locked up (either will not respond, won't wake up, can't power off etc.. ) probably 6-8 times with just normal use,
i wouldn't say she is a power user or anything or even uses power intensive programs


at my work where i have a dell pentium 4 1.6 with 256 meg ram
etc. etc. and windows XP, i have left it on for 6 months and the only thing (note it didn't even lock up the computer the application just quit responding) that has failed was when i was using the beta version of IE 6, and that's to be expected from beta releases.


so i don't understand why anyone really says that XP is like some crash-amatic OS,

i do agree that windows 98, and the 2000 were blue screen of death generators (seems like all you could get out of them.)

but XP is actually not that bad.

(puts my flame suit on)

Please...XP is the reason I finally switched to a mac. You must be in cahoots with our friend kerouac, because all the posts you've made on this mac forum have been complaints and anti-mac, try it somewhere else, like the dell forum.
"uh, is the usb port on my dell firewire compatible to work with my new iPod?"

Wash!!
Oct 31, 2002, 03:02 PM
I'm running a 7600 with OSX.1.5 It has yet to crash. It works better that ever did under OS9 I even run classic Apps in it:cool:
So see if you can claim the same for winblows XP you can't run programs that were made for win9x on it because it crashes like there is no tomorrow.

OSX is the best OS there is, even at work I just install jaguar and was able to get on our network (win NT) and the IT guy was amazed that I could see everything on the network even stuff that was suppost be on a "Secure" share on the network (good old M$ security) and none can access but him guess what I could and can edit the files :cool:
Long live OSX and apple:D

jefhatfield
Oct 31, 2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by medea


Please...XP is the reason I finally switched to a mac. You must be in cahoots with our friend kerouac, because all the posts you've made on this mac forum have been complaints and anti-mac, try it somewhere else, like the dell forum.
"uh, is the usb port on my dell firewire compatible to work with my new iPod?"

the nt family of nt 4, nt 5 (windows 2000), and nt 5.1 (windows xp) is more stable than the DOS days of 95/98/ME

and the interface of XP is much better than the dull 95/98/ME interface that ruled the PCs for years

the windows world is catching up as far as a friendly, pleasant looking operating system

the PC world already has the faster hardware and if they improve windows often and with great strides, we might one day have no leg to stand on trying to bring PC users to the mac world

ninjachild
Oct 31, 2002, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by medea


Please...XP is the reason I finally switched to a mac. You must be in cahoots with our friend kerouac, because all the posts you've made on this mac forum have been complaints and anti-mac, try it somewhere else, like the dell forum.
"uh, is the usb port on my dell firewire compatible to work with my new iPod?"


hey buddy,

shut up.

i forgot this is a mac forum, and all those who don't think it's the greatest thing since breathing can't say anything.

zealots.

jefhatfield
Oct 31, 2002, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by ninjachild



hey buddy,

shut up.

i forgot this is a mac forum, and all those who don't think it's the greatest thing since breathing can't say anything.

zealots.

but there are a lot of people like you who see the good in PCs and macs

check out the older posts and the background to the original anti-zealots...a group of mac users who promote mac thru truth and shy away from bashing PCs or PC users

if macs are good, then there is no reason to et nasty toward PC users or their machines...but too many mac people are too zealous and get nasty as the wintel world

i like both platforms for different reasons, but if i had to chose one for my home machine, i would definitely go with mac since it's set up for the home user and does not acidentaly get tweaked like PCs...and the macs are much less prone to viruses

now if the mac world had 95 percent of the machines out there, there would no doubt be way more mac viruses out there

i have never heard of a virus attacking an apple made computer, or mac clone in the over twnety years i have used apples and/or macs...except from some posters here who have links to mac vuruses in the rare instances that they do attack a mac

anybody who has been around mac users has to know by now that there are a lot of zealots out there in favor of the mac who sometimes don't like to see the facts or give an inch when the PCs do gain some ground...it just goes with the territory on this and other mac related sites

medea
Oct 31, 2002, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by ninjachild



hey buddy,

shut up.

i forgot this is a mac forum, and all those who don't think it's the greatest thing since breathing can't say anything.

zealots.

First off, don't be a hypocrite and tell someone to shutup when your complaining about not being able to voice your opinion:rolleyes: And no one here or in the "emacs are defective" thread have listed any "facts" against macs so it's not a matter of "zealots out there in favor of the mac who sometimes don't like to see the facts or give an inch when the PCs do gain some ground." Plenty of people here like macs and pc's, I have acutally used and owned a pc running xp and it was a horrible experience and the main reason I switched to a mac, and a mac that I have had zero problems with. I'm not a zealot, but I am tired of people coming on to a mac forum and doing nothing but complain about macs, most of the pc-users that visit the forum do so to learn somthing about macs, not work pointlessly to discredit them. Personally I am not power hungry and don't require the fastest processor available, my 800mhz G4 works great for me so I don't care if there is a 2GHZ Pentium4 available on a pc and apples issue with not being as up to date on speed isnt neccesarily apples fault a lot has to do with motorola you know, and if you take away the processor game then where exactly is apple lagging in, the hardware is up to date and so is the software, in fact most say there is nothing in the windows world to compare with mac products such as the iApps, the iMac, the iBook and the Tibook. If you like PC's then fine that's great, but if you do not like macs in the least then why post on a mac board. I'm a zealot for defending macs, how would the pc community act if I went on a pc board gainsaying everything about pcs?