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FSMBP
May 2, 2012, 07:42 AM
With the update to Mountain Lion DP3, the "Ungrouping" of Windows is now available in 10.8! The true old Expose is back (prior to Snow Leopard). (Pic below courtesy of member Kariya).

I avoided Lion for a number of reasons (sluggishness, poor implementation of Duplicate/number of other features etc). Now, I will upgrade to Mountain Lion from Snow Leopard.

Anyone else doing the same with all that's been going on?
BTW: It isn't this one feature that's pushing me to 10.8, but a combination of refinements.



Paradoxally
May 2, 2012, 09:09 AM
I'm going to update to ML and try it out today. Might stick with it, even if it's a DP. Currently on SL.

thejadedmonkey
May 2, 2012, 09:15 AM
Never in my life would I have thought that apple would re-introduce a feature based off of user demand. I might actually start liking OS X again :)

FSMBP
May 2, 2012, 09:19 AM
Never in my life would I have thought that apple would re-introduce a feature based off of user demand. I might actually start liking OS X again :)

I agree. I feel like the ideas of Mission Control (and some other features of 10.7) were half-baked and engineers didn't think of them all the way through. I feel like 10.7 was sort of a 'Beta' and they sorted out the bugs. :D

Feed Me
May 2, 2012, 09:22 AM
Probably the best news I've had all day!
I have never once used mission control to switch between app windows, but I remember I used exposé all the time

EDIT: any pics?

Bear
May 2, 2012, 09:26 AM
Is the ungrouping versus grouped an either/or or can you key bind both of them?

There are situations where grouped actually makes sense, even when one does prefer the ungrouped version.

FSMBP
May 2, 2012, 09:33 AM
Probably the best news I've had all day!
I have never once used mission control to switch between app windows, but I remember I used exposé all the time

EDIT: any pics?

I edited the first post to show the image. The image was originally posted by member Kariya.

splitpea
May 2, 2012, 10:05 AM
But still no Spaces, eh?

Maybe someone will build a third-party virtual-desktop product for Mac (hint, hint).

Well, a girl can hope.

klaxamazoo
May 2, 2012, 10:17 AM
But still no Spaces, eh?

Maybe someone will build a third-party virtual-desktop product for Mac (hint, hint).

Well, a girl can hope.

The developer working on ReSpaceApp just joined up with BinaryAge (maker of TotalFinder) and it is launching as TotalSpaces.

It brings back the grid structure of 10.5 Spaces and the developer is said to be working on an Expose solution.

GoGa
May 2, 2012, 10:31 AM
But still no Spaces, eh?

Maybe someone will build a third-party virtual-desktop product for Mac (hint, hint).

Well, a girl can hope.

What's the difference between Spaces and Desktops? :)

(My iMac came with lion so I have never used spaces.)

splitpea
May 2, 2012, 10:32 AM
The developer working on ReSpaceApp just joined up with BinaryAge (maker of TotalFinder) and it is launching as TotalSpaces.

It brings back the grid structure of 10.5 Spaces and the developer is said to be working on an Expose solution.

Sweet. That's really the only thing that would make an upgrade past Snow Leopard viable for me. :)

Just googled them, and it looks like they have a ways to go to fully duplicate the Spaces functionality, but they're on their way.

iDemiurge
May 2, 2012, 12:50 PM
This is great. But how about multiple display management? Is it any better? Or do we still get the linen background on every secondary displays when using an app in full screen mode?

wonderspark
May 2, 2012, 01:41 PM
Wow, this is excellent news! I may let my fiery grip of Snow Leopard go after all, once Mountain Lion is out.

Krazy Bill
May 2, 2012, 02:14 PM
It's still not the 2nd coming I hoped for. I can certainly live with windows grouped by application and if need be... simply ungroup them with a quick swipe so I don't understand all the hoopla.

The problem is Apple's misguided view of what a "space" is. I still don't understand why a full screen deserves it's own dedicated workspace just because the menubar is gone. :confused: Open and close enough of them and the top third of your display is littered with useless and empty desktops. My solution so far is to just avoid using apps in full screen.

Yeah, I know I'll get flamed for yet another wish for the old Spaces/Expose' scheme. But at least you had a choice not to use either of them.

Blipp
May 2, 2012, 02:15 PM
I try not to violate the NDA too often but I'll say the functionality is back and at least on my test machine is glitchy as all get out. I'm excited but it's by no means ready for prime time yet.

DO NOT take Expose's return as the excuse you've been waiting for to use Mountain Lion as your primary OS. This is still very much a beta...

Menge
May 2, 2012, 02:35 PM
Here's to hoping they keep it in! This is excellent!

james948
May 2, 2012, 06:18 PM
The only thing I miss is now is the symmetry. They're not re-sized to rectangles; they remain the same shape.

PurrBall
May 2, 2012, 06:40 PM
The only thing I miss is now is the symmetry. They're not re-sized to rectangles; they remain the same shape.

The way it's supposed to be (pre-Snow Leopard) :)

Ddyracer
May 2, 2012, 07:00 PM
Now make ML have support for multiple monitors and it will surpass lion.

mobilehaathi
May 2, 2012, 07:03 PM
Wow, excellent and unexpected news!

Applepi
May 2, 2012, 10:03 PM
Getting to use this feature again is an absolute joy. Makes my life much easier too.

WSR
May 2, 2012, 10:26 PM
What's the difference between Spaces and Desktops? :)

(My iMac came with lion so I have never used spaces.)

Basically in Snow Leopard each Space is it's own desktop and Full-Screen modes can't create their own Space. The apps just go Full-Screen in its current Space. This allowed Spaces to be arranged in a grid for easy changing between Spaces. For example, I use 9 Spaces in SL in a 3 by 3 grid. I know that the bottom right Space is my mail app, the top right is Itunes, etc. The those apps and others always open in those Spaces and the position of the Space won't move. Thus, I always know where it is and don't have to search the Spaces for where it is.

In Lion, not only can each Space be it's own desktop, it could instead be an app in Lion's Full-Screen mode without a desktop below it. This means that the number of Spaces can be ever changing as apps enter and leave Full-Screen mode. Also it makes a second monitor virtually useless since there is no desktop below the app for the second monitor to show.

So to actually answer GoGa's question in SL all Spaces are Desktops. While in Lion some Spaces are Desktops and some Spaces are apps in Full-Screen mode.

While ReSpacesApp sounds good, Apple NEEDS to give the user the option between classic Spaces and Mission Control.

Below is an example of SL's Spaces. Note since I have 2 monitors, they are shown side-by-side in each Space.

Kiriga
May 4, 2012, 01:55 AM
I was very pleased to read about the epic comeback of the biggest wasted feature that I decided to install the dp3 on an external hdd, just so to see it! Well, it needs a bit of polishing, like there are no names of the applications depicted, even when hovering the mouse over the windows, but hey, it's back! The thing that kept me in Snow Leopard all this time.
Here's a screenshot : http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/screenshot20120504at948.png

roadbloc
May 4, 2012, 04:56 AM
All they need to do now is fix multi-monitor support and I may upgrade. This is certainly good news indeed. I'm glad Apple have realized their mistake.

Blue Sun
May 4, 2012, 07:53 PM
I will upgrade to ML day 1 because of this.

airlied
May 5, 2012, 08:05 AM
you will activate a bug if you uncheck "group windows by applications"

uncheck it (èxpose is back), then add a desktop in mission control (just make sure you have more than one desktop when you go to mission control), then try to move a windows from one desktop to another......

u will find your mac stuck on mission control, you cannot back to desktops, cannot do anything, force restart is the only way to solve it...:mad:

Krazy Bill
May 5, 2012, 09:06 AM
but hey, it's back! The thing that kept me in Snow Leopard all this time.
Here's a screenshot : http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/screenshot20120504at948.png

Your image illustrates the shoddiness of Apple's remedy. That lone desktop1 icon at top is a waste of screen real estate. Also, still no clue if there are minimized windows anywhere.

Ok, no more overlapping windows. But Expose' would be truly useful if it did indeed work like it used to:

1.) No redundant "desktops" at the top
2.) Minimized windows showing at the very bottom.

Perhaps a 3rd gesture/keystroke just to show the desktops? That would be perfect but wait!... This would also mean the old style Spaces/Expose would be back and we can't have that!! Silly me. :eek:

Maybe I'm approaching this wrong. if we all suggested this on the iOS forum... eventually it will make its way to OSX. :D

tkermit
May 5, 2012, 09:34 AM
The only thing I miss is now is the symmetry. They're not re-sized to rectangles; they remain the same shape.

The way it's supposed to be (pre-Snow Leopard) :)

Exactly. It was a bad idea to make them all the same size in SL's Exposé. Apple got it right on their first try, when they introduced Exposé (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktTNcj0fAM4) with Panther (where minimized windows didn't show either, by the way).

baryon
May 6, 2012, 02:18 AM
Is anyone using "Show Dashboard as a Space"? That's another stupid feature I think. I mean, what if you're on Desktop 6, and you have to swipe your way left about 6 times? That's freaking stupid! Is it me or did Apple just want to ruin everything that was good about OS X? I mean, there's an option for it, which is great, but I wish we could just revert to the Leopard way of things, exactly...

Ritsuka
May 6, 2012, 02:46 AM
There is a key on every apple keyboard, no need to swipe six times ;)

mabaker
May 6, 2012, 09:42 AM
Well, well. That was unexpected.

Simplicated
May 6, 2012, 10:13 AM
There is a key on every apple keyboard, no need to swipe six times ;)

On the newer keyboard it's the Launchpad key. :(

Cougarcat
May 6, 2012, 12:14 PM
On the newer keyboard it's the Launchpad key. :(

You can reconfigure the key.

Edit: apparently Keyboard Shortcuts doesn't let you change the key (odd) but there are third-party utilities that will.

haravikk
May 6, 2012, 01:08 PM
Hmm, this still seems like a half-assed solution to the problem. Why not just make groups clickable so they expand once you've clicked them? Or make it so clicking them switches to application exposé for that program.

I dunno, while it's good to see them resolving unloved changes, it doesn't really seem like the solution that Mission Control needs; it should be something elegant that doesn't require you to go out of your way and find the preference pane after deciding that your style of working (lots of windows) isn't suited to grouping, this being after you've found out that it's possible to ungroup them.

Click to expand would be much more elegant, and anyone can use it. I mean, the simple fact is that the grouping saves space, which is great, but it's also fundamentally unusable without the ability to expand them when you need to. So why can't we just have sensible grouping instead of a choice of stupid-grouping or no grouping at all?

baryon
May 6, 2012, 03:59 PM
What I would like them to add now is a way to see desktops in CONTEXT. That is, the desktops on the right of the current one to appear on the right of the current one, and the ones on the left to appear on the left. And i'm not talking about the top thumbnails, but rather the large Desktop preview in the middle. I want to see other desktops on either side of that desktop, as it would make it easier to figure out what is where relative to where I am now, rather than to look for the faint white border around the thumbnail that represents the current desktop, and then try to make out the tiny crappy thumbnail previews that don't even have their windows Exposé'd...

Hmm, this still seems like a half-assed solution to the problem. Why not just make groups clickable so they expand once you've clicked them? Or make it so clicking them switches to application exposé for that program.

I dunno, while it's good to see them resolving unloved changes, it doesn't really seem like the solution that Mission Control needs; it should be something elegant that doesn't require you to go out of your way and find the preference pane after deciding that your style of working (lots of windows) isn't suited to grouping, this being after you've found out that it's possible to ungroup them.

Click to expand would be much more elegant, and anyone can use it. I mean, the simple fact is that the grouping saves space, which is great, but it's also fundamentally unusable without the ability to expand them when you need to. So why can't we just have sensible grouping instead of a choice of stupid-grouping or no grouping at all?

Yes, that would make sense, but I would only accept it if that was also an option. Perhaps still allow windows to be permanently ungrouped, but allow ungrouping with a 2-finger swipe even when they are grouped by default.

When I want to switch from one thing to another, I am always looking for a specific WINDOW, not an app. I don't care about apps and I don't like the app-centric approach. I think based on content not container, so having to ungroup windows would be an extra unnecessary step. But if you work with a large number of applications with many windows each, then it can make sense.

Cougarcat
May 6, 2012, 04:03 PM
What I would like them to add now is a way to see desktops in CONTEXT...

That's an excellent idea. You should give Apple feedback.

leman
May 7, 2012, 07:28 AM
Well, I am happy that this feature is optional. I much prefer having my windows grouped by application. Needless to say, I like Mission Control much better than the old Expose, which I found very difficult to navigate.

WSR
May 7, 2012, 03:27 PM
Well, I am happy that this feature is optional. I much prefer having my windows grouped by application. Needless to say, I like Mission Control much better than the old Expose, which I found very difficult to navigate.

This is what most of us are asking for, the choice to do things the way that works best for us.

james948
May 7, 2012, 04:44 PM
There's a terminal command to get rid of the dashboard altogether. I've never used it. It's like the guy on another thread said; it's just more junk to turn off.

I wish someone would make a GUI like 'lion tweaks' but ALL of this stuff.
"Getridofthejunk.app"

iVoid
May 7, 2012, 07:10 PM
I was very pleased to read about the epic comeback of the biggest wasted feature that I decided to install the dp3 on an external hdd, just so to see it! Well, it needs a bit of polishing, like there are no names of the applications depicted, even when hovering the mouse over the windows, but hey, it's back! The thing that kept me in Snow Leopard all this time.
Here's a screenshot : http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/screenshot20120504at948.png

That definitely does look better. But I still miss being able to drag windows between spaces without having to switch to the space I'm moving a window from.

Leopard and SL were so much easier to use than Mission Control.

Ddyracer
May 7, 2012, 11:01 PM
There's a terminal command to get rid of the dashboard altogether. I've never used it. It's like the guy on another thread said; it's just more junk to turn off.

I wish someone would make a GUI like 'lion tweaks' but ALL of this stuff.
"Getridofthejunk.app"


lol, thats actually pretty good idea. Or an app called makeLionlookmorelikeSlowLeopard.app :p

throAU
May 8, 2012, 01:42 AM
Hmm, this still seems like a half-assed solution to the problem. Why not just make groups clickable so they expand once you've clicked them?

Swiping up on a group in Lion already does this.

yojitani
May 8, 2012, 01:44 AM
All they need to do now is fix multi-monitor support and I may upgrade. This is certainly good news indeed. I'm glad Apple have realized their mistake.

Don't hold your breath.

haravikk
May 8, 2012, 05:58 AM
Swiping up on a group in Lion already does this.
Great, so how do you do that without a trackpad?

Paint.It.Black
May 8, 2012, 06:08 AM
Great, so how do you do that without a trackpad?

Hit spacebar

MrAppleseed
May 8, 2012, 08:08 AM
Great, so how do you do that without a trackpad?

Scroll up using the mouse (pressing the spacebar triggers a different thing).

wikus
May 8, 2012, 08:22 AM
Awesome!

I wonder how all those anti-choice apple worshippers feel right now, the ones that ridiculed every person who made the complaint of apple not giving customization/control in system preference (of all places?!).

I really want to rub it in their face right now.

Sdreed91
May 8, 2012, 11:54 AM
Awesome!

I wonder how all those anti-choice apple worshippers feel right now, the ones that ridiculed every person who made the complaint of apple not giving customization/control in system preference (of all places?!).

I really want to rub it in their face right now.


Okay. Why? Do you need to be a sore winner? Or are you just looking to argue with someone?

I mean great Apple brought it back they appeased to the masses but no need to "rub it in their face". Maybe I am wrong and that is just maturity talking, who knows?

wikus
May 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
Okay. Why? Do you need to be a sore winner? Or are you just looking to argue with someone?

I mean great Apple brought it back they appeased to the masses but no need to "rub it in their face". Maybe I am wrong and that is just maturity talking, who knows?

Its to give the anti-choice worshippers a dose of reality. There have been *many* threads on the issue of expose and each thread had even more individuals ridiculing those that wanted the option to have it back, ignoring it as an issue, downplaying the complaints made, etc. It was arrogance at its finest.

The responses were more or less in this tone;

'No, Apple doesnt need to fix anything, its not an issue, get used to it, expose has nothing to do with workflow, etc'

It was pretty disgusting.

Sdreed91
May 8, 2012, 01:29 PM
Its to give the anti-choice worshippers a dose of reality. There have been *many* threads on the issue of expose and each thread had even more individuals ridiculing those that wanted the option to have it back, ignoring it as an issue, downplaying the complaints made, etc. It was arrogance at its finest.

The responses were more or less in this tone;

'No, Apple doesnt need to fix anything, its not an issue, get used to it, expose has nothing to do with workflow, etc'

It was pretty disgusting.

There is no reason not to be happy. Apple is allowing choice now. However, just my opinion here but there is no need to gloat. Thats all I was saying.

ixodes
May 8, 2012, 01:36 PM
It's encouraging to watch Apple work to make mountain Lion a better product than Lion. Having stayed with SL as I've watched and waited, I'm so glad I took this approach.

After ML is released I'll wait for a few revs while they work out the bugs. Perhaps by 10.8.4 is it'll be ready for prime time.

I've never hesitated to upgrade in the past, but this time I'm so glad I'm waiting. I'll let others be Apple unpaid beta testers. The time I've saved by waiting is priceless.

astrorider
May 8, 2012, 01:36 PM
Is anyone using "Show Dashboard as a Space"? That's another stupid feature I think. I mean, what if you're on Desktop 6, and you have to swipe your way left about 6 times? That's freaking stupid! Is it me or did Apple just want to ruin everything that was good about OS X? I mean, there's an option for it, which is great, but I wish we could just revert to the Leopard way of things, exactly...

Maybe swipe up then select the dashboard space instead?

wikus
May 8, 2012, 01:48 PM
Apple still needs to allow disabling of the thumbnails of spaces being shown when Mission Control is activated. I, like many others, don't use spaces. The thumbnails are redundant at that point. And when there are no thumbnails needed, theres really no point in having the grey textured borded appear with the wallpaper shrink down in size.

kap91
May 8, 2012, 02:51 PM
Just stumbled across this and this news has made me extremely happy. Especially since I haven't yet upgraded to Lion I might never have to lose normal expose. Now lets just hope they don't yank it back out before release.

baryon
May 9, 2012, 03:44 AM
Maybe swipe up then select the dashboard space instead?

How is that (gesture + mouse point/click) better or faster than pressing a single button on the keyboard? Plus, when I want to convert units from a website, I generally want to see the website and the unit converter at the same time, which is why the old Dashboard is great.

astrorider
May 9, 2012, 12:14 PM
How is that (gesture + mouse point/click) better or faster than pressing a single button on the keyboard? Plus, when I want to convert units from a website, I generally want to see the website and the unit converter at the same time, which is why the old Dashboard is great.

I agree, which is why I don't have "show dashboard as a space" checked and why I'm glad apple left this as an option. However, I can understand why you might also like to use dashboard as a space for consistency with Mission Control or if you primarily use just one desktop and want to use a quick swipe left to get to the dashboard.

My point was just that if you did have dashboard set as a space, and you had several desktops, there's never a reason why you have to "swipe 6 times to get to dashboard" as swipe up and select would be much quicker.

In fact, I generally keep my desktops pretty consistently organized so I have my prefs set to go to a particular desktop by using control and the desktop number. If it wasn't for the fact that when dashboard is set as a space it doesn't have a desktop number so you can't control-number to it, I'd probably have it set that way, but since it doesn't I stick with using the dashboard Fkey.

bedifferent
May 9, 2012, 12:59 PM
I just had the chance in booting into my ML drive, updated but am not seeing that option in "Mission Control" settings. :confused:

I was so excited to have this option, why am I not seeing it?

Update: After updating from 12A178q it still lists 12A178q as the OS. Odd. Tried rechecking, states OS is up to date. Guess it's time to file another bug report. Boo! I really wanted to debug/test the latest release.

Anyone know if you can delete the install receipts/history and force it to recheck?

xgman
May 9, 2012, 01:07 PM
I try not to violate the NDA too often but I'll say the functionality is back and at least on my test machine is glitchy as all get out. I'm excited but it's by no means ready for prime time yet.

DO NOT take Expose's return as the excuse you've been waiting for to use Mountain Lion as your primary OS. This is still very much a beta...

How does a feature that was developed a couple years ago become glitchy? I don't get how they take one step forward and two steps backwards on this sort of thing. You'd think would be child's play by now.

haravikk
May 9, 2012, 01:38 PM
Scroll up using the mouse (pressing the spacebar triggers a different thing).
Ugh, so the feature's been there the entire time, but in a completely unintuitive way? To whom does scrolling up constitute "expand grouped windows"? Cycle through them maybe, but that just makes no sense. Clicking the group would be much easier.

MrAppleseed
May 9, 2012, 02:53 PM
Ugh, so the feature's been there the entire time, but in a completely unintuitive way? To whom does scrolling up constitute "expand grouped windows"? Cycle through them maybe, but that just makes no sense. Clicking the group would be much easier.

It’s horribly implemented, though. Sometimes you even see less than before scrolling.

motorazr
May 10, 2012, 04:29 PM
THANK GOD THIS IS COMING BACK!!!!!

....I feel like this was a common sense thing for Apple that someone failed with until now :)

Eric5h5
May 10, 2012, 07:25 PM
Exactly. It was a bad idea to make them all the same size in SL's Exposé. Apple got it right on their first try, when they introduced Exposé (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktTNcj0fAM4) with Panther (where minimized windows didn't show either, by the way).

So true. I'm running 10.6.8 with a dock hack to make Exposé work properly (i.e., pre-10.6), rather than 10.7.anything, partially because of this.

--Eric

reallynotnick
May 10, 2012, 08:30 PM
So true. I'm running 10.6.8 with a dock hack to make Exposé work properly (i.e., pre-10.6), rather than 10.7.anything, partially because of this.

--Eric

Yeah I was really upset even with SL's implementation, I tried the dock hack a few months ago but I just got so used to the way it is in SL that I didn't feel like relearning it again if it was never going to be supported again. I had wished I found out about that dock hack a long time ago would have got rid of any SL pains.

Millah
May 10, 2012, 11:20 PM
I agree. I feel like the ideas of Mission Control (and some other features of 10.7) were half-baked and engineers didn't think of them all the way through. I feel like 10.7 was sort of a 'Beta' and they sorted out the bugs. :D

Agreed. I feel like a lot of things in Lion just didn't have the refinement and polish of previous OSX releases. Unfortunately, I think a large part of it is the absence of Bertrand Serlet :(. Federighi is no doubt a great engineer, but I don't feel is on the same level of Serlet (or Forstall when it comes to UI). A lot of little things aren't as refined. Like a lot of the new animations and transitions are not nearly as smooth and polished as Leopard. Even the iTunes artwork screensaver that they changed in Lion...the animation for flipping the album artwork is not as good as Tigers. It's hard to explain. On Tiger, when the album flips, the animation starts out quicker but subtly slows down as it reaches the end of the animation. On Lion the animation is the same "speed" through the entire animation.

Maybe I'm the only one who notices these minor things, but I really pay attention to the details. Which is why I like Apple products so much :)

boilingpoint
May 11, 2012, 12:54 AM
I agree. I feel like the ideas of Mission Control (and some other features of 10.7) were half-baked and engineers didn't think of them all the way through. I feel like 10.7 was sort of a 'Beta' and they sorted out the bugs. :D

Apple is selling this beta-level product and many their fanboys are saying they do not have any problematic issue. Evil :apple: and Stupid :apple: fanboys! :p

hamis92
May 11, 2012, 08:10 AM
Just noticed this. This is super-awesome news, I've hated the grouping feature in MC since day one.

InuNacho
May 11, 2012, 07:42 PM
How is that (gesture + mouse point/click) better or faster than pressing a single button on the keyboard?

It isn't

A gesture or mouse click is completely pointless as I thought the point of Expose is to easily "expose" everything thats under everything else, like when I have a dog treat hidden under my hand and I expose it by moving it by moving my hand. Using an extra click is like having the dog treat under my right hand, quickly moving it to be under my left and THEN showing it to the dog.

Mumford
May 12, 2012, 08:02 PM
This change, above all others, makes me happiest. I wish I could run ML right now because of this.

bedifferent
May 12, 2012, 08:51 PM
This change, above all others, makes me happiest. I wish I could run ML right now because of this.

I never use developer builds as my main OS, but the latest M.L. update was so much more stable than 10.7.4 (and w/ the ungrouping of M.C. windows as an "All Windows" Exposé option), I decided on replacing Lion with it.

Having been disappointed with 10.7 as a long time OS X user, I wasn't too optimistic with 10.8. However, it seems Apple engineers are finally listening to developer and consumer feedback by implementing choice into their system. So far, I'm looking forward to 10.8. I just hope Apple gives the iOS integration a break, seems rushed at the moment.

dba415
May 18, 2012, 01:32 PM
From a Snow Leopard user who downgraded from Lion solely because of this, I will definitely install Mountain Lion when it comes out.

Thanks Apple for getting the people what they want.

JacaByte
May 18, 2012, 06:27 PM
This is how I feel right now: (Earrape warning! (http://youtu.be/BVn1oQL9sWg?t=3m38s))

I will definitely upgrade to ML from Snow Leopard on day 1 now that expose is back.

newagemac
May 20, 2012, 12:39 PM
Ugh, so the feature's been there the entire time, but in a completely unintuitive way? To whom does scrolling up constitute "expand grouped windows"? Cycle through them maybe, but that just makes no sense. Clicking the group would be much easier.

Lion is intended to be used with a multitouch input like the macbook trackpads, Magic Trackpad, or Magic Mouse. For those input methods, a quick swipe up is very intuitive. If your mouse doesn't support multitouch, then scrolling up of course doesn't feel intuitive.

By the way, if you hit the spacebar each window fully expands. And if you assign the fn key (by itself) to App Exposé, Mission Control is killer. Works much better than Snow Leopard's exposé in my opinion. I imagine power users and people that have a ton of windows and apps open at once will continue using Mission Control and Lion's way of doing it. People who don't have many windows open at once or don't multitask much will prefer Snow Leopard's way of doing it by ungrouping since with so few windows open there isn't as much clutter or need for organization through grouping.

Lion's Mission Control (through grouping) solved the problem of having so many windows open at once that you can't find the particular window you want to use while in Expose´.

tkermit
May 20, 2012, 01:07 PM
Lion's Mission Control (through grouping) solved the problem of having so many windows open at once that you can't find the particular window you want to use while in Expose´.

Well...yes and no. Is it easier to find the one Xcode window among the 21 Safari windows you "see" open here? Yes. Is it also easier to pick out a specific Safari window? Most definitely not.

http://f.cl.ly/items/3R1m450H0D2N3Q1a0F3X/lionmc.png

You could of course argue that that is what Application Exposé is for, which, for better or worse, Lion pretty much forces you to take advantage of much more often than under SL, but App Exposé has the potential disadvantage that it requires you to first think about what specific application the window you're looking for belongs to.

ObeseSquirrel
May 20, 2012, 01:30 PM
Lion's Mission Control (through grouping) solved the problem of having so many windows open at once that you can't find the particular window you want to use while in Expose´.

I mostly agree with this (grouping apps together). However, when you scroll up, the windows really don't spread out very well, and unlike App Expose, you can't see the titles for the windows. If they make scrolling up over the applications more like App Expose, Mission Control would be perfect.

dba415
May 20, 2012, 01:55 PM
does anyone have a video or screenshot of this new feature in mountain lion?

PurrBall
May 20, 2012, 02:04 PM
does anyone have a video or screenshot of this new feature in mountain lion?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=14804337&postcount=76

skaertus
May 20, 2012, 06:02 PM
That's great news! Exposé is the best desktop management feature ever!

newagemac
May 20, 2012, 10:43 PM
I mostly agree with this (grouping apps together). However, when you scroll up, the windows really don't spread out very well, and unlike App Expose, you can't see the titles for the windows. If they make scrolling up over the applications more like App Expose, Mission Control would be perfect.

You are supposed to use the spacebar in combination with the swipe up. You can easily see any particular window that way. Or choose any window for that particular app and quickly go into App Exposé. But the spacebar works really well in Mission Control. I don't think many people even know about that which is why they have a problem with the grouping.

qoem
May 20, 2012, 11:15 PM
You are supposed to use the spacebar in combination with the swipe up. You can easily see any particular window that way. Or choose any window for that particular app and quickly go into App Exposé. But the spacebar works really well in Mission Control. I don't think many people even know about that which is why they have a problem with the grouping.

no. the reason why people have a problem with the grouping is that grouping has no advantage, and "ungrouping" requires one extra click.

tkermit
May 21, 2012, 04:55 AM
You are supposed to use the spacebar in combination with the swipe up. You can easily see any particular window that way.

I've generally been an advocate of MC, but the view with the windows (more or less) spread out in Mission Control is akin to finding a needle in a haystack as soon as the number of windows exceeds four or five, simply because the windows overlap way too much.

eudyss
May 21, 2012, 06:36 AM
That definitely does look better. But I still miss being able to drag windows between spaces without having to switch to the space I'm moving a window from.

I agree - THAT is the key for my personal most efficient workflow, too.

haravikk
May 21, 2012, 09:26 AM
By the way, if you hit the spacebar each window fully expands.
I know that one, but you have to do it for each window, which doesn't really help with grouped windows as you can't see which window it is that you want to look at :p

And if you assign the fn key (by itself) to App Exposé
I've tried that as well but it doesn't help that much. Specifically, I maintained the F9 all-windows, F10 app-windows and F11 desktop setup, however it's not possible to switch from all-windows to app-windows directly (you have hit F10 twice); plus app-windows requires you to switch first into the app that you wish to see windows for, which isn't that smooth.

Lion's Mission Control (through grouping) solved the problem of having so many windows open at once that you can't find the particular window you want to use while in Expose´.
I completely agree, however I still feel it's clunky and shouldn't have been released as it is in Lion today. Specifically; not everyone owning a Mac has touch-input, and I know plenty of laptop users who only use the trackpad on the go, and use a mouse when they're at a desk.

Even for touch-input I don't feel that swipe-up is a logical gesture either, it'd make more sense to outwardly 'pinch' (not sure what's that called) to "push" the group apart. Or even just touching the group would make sense, and work better for mouse-users as well.

applesith
May 21, 2012, 10:10 AM
Oh man!! That is awesome!

linuxcooldude
May 21, 2012, 10:26 AM
Its to give the anti-choice worshippers a dose of reality. There have been *many* threads on the issue of expose and each thread had even more individuals ridiculing those that wanted the option to have it back, ignoring it as an issue, downplaying the complaints made, etc.

It was arrogance at its finest.

The responses were more or less in this tone;

'No, Apple doesnt need to fix anything, its not an issue, get used to it, expose has nothing to do with workflow, etc'

It was pretty disgusting.

Because its called an opinion. Rubbing peoples face in it is more self serving and does not really add to a discussion.

It was arrogance at its finest.

I find what your doing just as arrogant.

Lets just chock it up to a difference of opinion which is fine as long as it does not get out of hand like it is now if thats how you decide to play it.

InuNacho
May 21, 2012, 08:05 PM
I completely agree, however I still feel it's clunky and shouldn't have been released as it is in Lion today. Specifically; not everyone owning a Mac has touch-input, and I know plenty of laptop users who only use the trackpad on the go, and use a mouse when they're at a desk.

I rarely ever use my trackpad and find Gestures completely unfriendly and frankly a bit painful. I bring my Logitech Performance MX everywhere with me and have set up the thumb button as all Window Expose and the Zoom button as Desktop Expose.

Getting access to everything doesn't even require moving a finger and honestly I can't adapt to MC.

Spanky Deluxe
May 25, 2012, 09:21 AM
OMG I only just found this after another search for a hack to reintroduce SL expose into Lion. I'm so desperate for this feature I might just pay for the developer license so as to get ML early legitimately. Full expose was the reason I switched to OS X in the first place - it was such a more elegant and easier to use solution to switching applications and windows compared to the alt+tab or the task bar in windows.

Thank God that it looks like Lion will only be the Vista of OS X and not a continuing trend to destroy the UI and ability to actually use a Mac to do serious work.

theSeb
Jun 19, 2012, 04:04 PM
On the newer keyboard it's the Launchpad key. :(

F12 for dashboard. (real F12, depending on how you've set up the function keys you may have to have hold down Fn)

WhackyNinja
Jul 6, 2012, 06:21 PM
Exposé is back? Dude....Mountain Lion keeps getting better and better

Drew017
Jul 6, 2012, 11:24 PM
This could possibly be a bug, but when I enable the scroll to open stack gesture (http://osxdaily.com/2011/11/30/enable-hidden-stack-gestures-mac-os-x-lion/)(which worked in Lion), and scroll over an app icon in the dock that's not currently open, I get snow Leopard's expose...

Simplicated
Jul 7, 2012, 09:54 AM
This could possibly be a bug, but when I enable the scroll to open stack gesture (http://osxdaily.com/2011/11/30/enable-hidden-stack-gestures-mac-os-x-lion/)(which worked in Lion), and scroll over an app icon in the dock that's not currently open, I get snow Leopard's expose...

Definitely a bug. I thought it was fixed in DP3 Update 1 :eek:

CodeBreaker
Jul 9, 2012, 01:26 PM
Definitely a bug. I thought it was fixed in DP3 Update 1 :eek:

That is a feature. It's App Expose. Works since Lion. It will also show recent items for document based apps.

EDIT: Extremely sorry. I thought all windows belonged to the same app...

DarwinOSX
Jul 11, 2012, 12:54 PM
Never in my life would I have thought that apple would re-introduce a feature based off of user demand. I might actually start liking OS X again :)

They started doing this in 1984.

----------


Thank God that it looks like Lion will only be the Vista of OS X and not a continuing trend to destroy the UI and ability to actually use a Mac to do serious work.

Such a silly thing to say.

CrzyCanuck72
Jul 25, 2012, 07:05 PM
I'm still a bit confused (SL user here); does this mean that all 3 expose modes from SL are now available in ML (all-windows, app-windows, and show desktop)? But for app-windows, it still goes into the Mission Control screen rather than just overlaying over what's currently open (SL-style)?

Can you still use hotcorners and drag files in and out of Expose?

Winter Charm
Jul 25, 2012, 07:29 PM
I'm going to update to ML and try it out today. Might stick with it, even if it's a DP. Currently on SL.

Mountain Lion is everything Lion should have been, and more! :D I love it!

It's also smooth and snappy! :) :) :) :)

Justright
Jul 28, 2012, 09:39 AM
OK, I'm glad Expose is back in Mountain Lion, I've installed the new OSX and loaded up different apps, I tried hiding some of them and leaving others open, but when I tried using expose it did not show the hidden windows? I'm I missing something :rolleyes: or is this left out :eek:

Thanks for any feedback :)

mabaker
Jul 28, 2012, 10:10 AM
OK, I'm glad Expose is back in Mountain Lion, I've installed the new OSX and loaded up different apps, I tried hiding some of them and leaving others open, but when I tried using expose it did not show the hidden windows? I'm I missing something :rolleyes: or is this left out :eek:

Thanks for any feedback :)

Exposé in 10.3., 10.4 and 10.5 never showed any minimized windows.

In 10.6 and upwards it does show minimized windows if you go to "Application Windows Exposé" only.

1swift
Jul 30, 2012, 01:39 AM
Ive posted this in another post with no response

Maybe someone can shed some light here

I much prefer Spaces to Mission Control, But I really only want one thing that can be implemented into Mission Control easily, and may be, for all I know, possible already

I hope I can explain this.

Back in SL, when I went to the Spaces view AND the all windows view..I could see all of my desktops in the all windows view. So if I had multiple desktops with multiple windows, I could see which was where etc and go to the proper desktop

Now with Mission Control, when I go to the "all windows" view, I see my desktops, but their in the standard view and windows behind other windows are not seen.

Id like to see all desktops in the "all windows" view when I go to launchpad.

Hope that was clear....Is this possible, anyone? Was this the same behavior on Lion?

illuminous
Aug 8, 2012, 05:27 AM
Glad to see this has made a return.

I have never been a fan of Mission Control. The old 'Expose + Spaces' is Apple at its best.. simple, clean and functional. When I first saw Mission Control, I thought to myself, this is something that Microsoft would do... it works, but just a little clunky.

iAll
Oct 24, 2012, 04:18 PM
Glad to see this has made a return.

I have never been a fan of Mission Control. The old 'Expose + Spaces' is Apple at its best.. simple, clean and functional. When I first saw Mission Control, I thought to myself, this is something that Microsoft would do... it works, but just a little clunky.

Clunky is an understatement. I'm not a fan of the mouse; this requires you to the mouse instead of the arrow keys(Spaces). And to think I dumped Photoshop CS (Snow Leopard) for Mission Control (Mountain Lion). :rolleyes:

splitpea
Oct 24, 2012, 04:22 PM
Clunky is an understatement. I'm not a fan of the mouse; this requires you to the mouse instead of the arrow keys(Spaces). And to think I dumped Photoshop CS (Snow Leopard) for Mission Control (Mountain Lion). :rolleyes:

If one wants new hardware, though, there isn't any alternative -- is there?

aRagingCanadian
Jan 6, 2013, 01:01 AM
Thank you for posting this. I recenelty got the MBP Retina and couldn't find this feature.. I used it all the time with my iMac.

Thanks.