Lego Harry Potter Vita v iOS

MacRumorUser said:

So the Vita version arrived only a few weeks ago for $39.99 and now the iOS version is available with pretty much identical content for $3.99

They wonder why the game industry is suffering, and why recent reports are saying the next wave of Home / portable consoles will struggle.

How can essentially the same experience on one device be worth 10% the cost of the other?

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Identical content but not identical experience. The Vita version looks better and plays better since it has proper controls. BTW had you jumped sooner the iOS version was 0.99

I roll my eyes at your last 2 paragraphs/sentences sir

e²Studios said:

Identical content but not identical experience. The Vita version looks better and plays better since it has proper controls.

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That's exactly it. I bought Zenonia for 69p for my iPhone, couldn't get past the awful controls and ended up picking up the PSP version for £3.99 (is it?). Granted it's not the same stretch as Lego Harry Potter, but if I was a fan of those games I'd definitely opt for the Vita version.

iOS is great for certain things, but not large, engrossing games.

MacRumorUser said:

Vita version doesn't look better! I bought it and trust me matey it looks like a Nintendo DS title. The iOS version on new iPad looks a lot better (better resolution, less aliasing).

As for controls, it's hardly dramatically different. The control scheme of the game is considerably basic, it doesn't make any use of dual analogue controls, so basic translation to iPad thumb stick control offers little difference and certainly not $36.00 worth of difference. Likewise the tacked on touchscreen controls for vita, work exactly same as iOS version, so again the vita in this instance doesn't have the edge.

I take it neither of you have ACTUALLY played the vita version ? it's possibly the laziest port you could get.

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to be quite honest I kinda expected it to suck on any platform lol. I didn't even buy it when it was 0.99 on the iTunes store

MacRumorUser said:

But yeah whilst I really don't fully agree with the developer / analyst predictions such as this article here , it really is hard to argue the 'worth' of a game being 1000% more on platform 1 than platform 2, and why some gamers could abandon traditional consoles altogether and stick to their mobile devices.

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Personally I'd ask why games are worth 10% the usual price on one system.

MacRumorUser said:

How can essentially the same experience on one device be worth 10% the cost of the other?

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It's as simple as if Warner Bros priced it $39.99 on iOS, nobody would buy it. iOS gaming is a crowded market in which Apple is the only distributor. Since everyone and their mom is developing for it (and the cost of entry is low), the market is commoditized and prices have been driven down. Now the only way for games to get bought is for them to be budget priced. Indie games need to be practically free to get noticed. Branded IP can be a little higher but nobody's gonna buy a $20 iOS game no matter how well known the franchise is.

Sometimes the experience is the same or better (I thought the $15 Final Fantasy 3 port on iOS was better than the DS version). Most of the time it's not because the return doesn't justify the same resource allocation, plus people tend to treat crappy iOS ports like they're the best thing ever. Most iOS ports end up being hack jobs intended to squeeze a little more money out of a game they made a profit on 10 years ago. The low price is also the main thing keeping AAA games off iDevices. Nobody's gonna develop a AAA game for iOS when they'll only be able to sell it for $3.

I bought Harry Potter on my iPhone and it was very enjoyable. Took a bit of getting used to but it was very good.

Doing the "spells" are very cool on the iPhone.

Is the Vita touch screen? I'm not sure how it would work otherwise.

MacRumorUser said:

Do I have to remind you about a certain 'sonic' game

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Hey now, leave the blue fuzzball out of this. I still say that game was better than the reviews put it at!

You're a dork

MonkeySee.... said:

I bought Harry Potter on my iPhone and it was very enjoyable. Took a bit of getting used to but it was very good.

Doing the "spells" are very cool on the iPhone.

Is the Vita touch screen? I'm not sure how it would work otherwise.

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Yes the Vita has a touch screen.

Liquorpuki said:

It's as simple as if Warner Bros priced it $39.99 on iOS, nobody would buy it. iOS gaming is a crowded market in which Apple is the only distributor. Since everyone and their mom is developing for it (and the cost of entry is low), the market is commoditized and prices have been driven down. Now the only way for games to get bought is for them to be budget priced. Indie games need to be practically free to get noticed. Branded IP can be a little higher but nobody's gonna buy a $20 iOS game no matter how well known the franchise is.

Sometimes the experience is the same or better (I thought the $15 Final Fantasy 3 port on iOS was better than the DS version). Most of the time it's not because the return doesn't justify the same resource allocation, plus people tend to treat crappy iOS ports like they're the best thing ever. Most iOS ports end up being hack jobs intended to squeeze a little more money out of a game they made a profit on 10 years ago. The low price is also the main thing keeping AAA games off iDevices. Nobody's gonna develop a AAA game for iOS when they'll only be able to sell it for $3.

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Well if things go the way they are, they will have to plan on selling it for $3.

I think that was the OP's point: the dedicated gaming industry is facing trouble that will likely only get worse. And having content 10x the price of iOS only adds insult to injury.

As for me, I used to buy just about every game console out there. Nowadays I primarily use my iPad when home, and iPhone when not at home. I didn't even consider buying the Vita. I have to compare it more to my iPad too, since I would only use it at home. The days of me carrying around a dedicated portable gaming device are over.





Michael

Tinmania said:

Well if things go the way they are, they will have to plan on selling it for $3.

I think that was the OP's point: the dedicated gaming industry is facing trouble that will likely only get worse. And having content 10x the price of iOS only adds insult to injury.

As for me, I used to buy just about every game console out there. Nowadays I primarily use my iPad when home, and iPhone when not at home. I didn't even consider buying the Vita. I have to compare it more to my iPad too, since I would only use it at home. The days of me carrying around a dedicated portable gaming device are over.

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I disagree. I think you get what you pay for.

In a few cases, IE Final Fantasy 3 for sure, maybe Lego Harry Potter (I don't know because I've never played it) the quality is the same or better on iOS than on dedicated and it's easy to frame a $40 dedicated port vs a cheaper iOS port as a ripoff. But those are outliers. In most cases, iOS ports and branded games are poor. And iOS's low price point is as much a cause of this as it is a reflection of it.

Liquorpuki said:

I disagree. I think you get what you pay for.

In a few cases, IE Final Fantasy 3 for sure, maybe Lego Harry Potter (I don't know because I've never played it) the quality is the same or better on iOS than on dedicated and it's easy to frame a $40 dedicated port vs a cheaper iOS port as a ripoff. But those are outliers. In most cases, iOS ports and branded games are poor. And iOS's low price point is as much a cause of this as it is a reflection of it.

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You are free to disagree. But the evidence is in my favor: the video game industry is in fact declining.

Video game hardware sales were actually a bright spot in the NPD Group report, showing a decline of just 18% when compared to February 2011, and again the overall winner was the Xbox 360 home console from Microsoft, which managed to sell 426,000 consoles during the month.

It is the fourteenth full month that the Xbox 360 has spent at the top of the United States hardware chart and Microsoft recently stated that it plans to keep that position all through this year.

Nintendo also offered official sales numbers for the month of February, saying that the Wii has managed to see an increase of 50 percent to react 228,000 consoles sold while the 3DS handheld has moved 262,000 devices to players just as the older DS has continued to sell well, with 135,000 units delivered to customers.

Sony has not offered any official sales numbers for the PlayStation 3 home console and the PlayStation Vita handheld but mentioned that both gaming platforms had significant momentum.

When it comes to video game sales, the decline was even worse, with the decline coming in at 24 percent.

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Here we have a "bright spot" of "only" an 18% year-over-year drop. More telling is the 24% drop in video games.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/NPD-...ne-by-20-Percent-during-February-257648.shtml

Without some sort of huge innovation in five years I think buying a portable gaming device will be like buying a Palm Pilot today.



Michael

Only reason I think physical copies of console games still sell is the fact that they can be re-sold to recoup the losses of buying it in the first place. I either am going to keep playing the game for a year or more (online multiplayer), or I am going to beat it an resell it quickly. I refuse to spend anywhere near $60 on a digital download of a game that cannot ever be resold.

When I get rid of my xbox, I can bundle games with it to boost the price. When I sell an old ipod, the only thing going for it is the original hardware and maybe a case, any games/apps I enjoyed on it cant be resold, therefore its good that I payed much less for them.

Tinmania said:

You are free to disagree. But the evidence is in my favor: the video game industry is in fact declining.



Here we have a "bright spot" of "only" an 18% year-over-year drop. More telling is the 24% drop in video games.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/NPD-...ne-by-20-Percent-during-February-257648.shtml

Without some sort of huge innovation in five years I think buying a portable gaming device will be like buying a Palm Pilot today.

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The game industry is cyclical and at this point in time every platform (DS, PSP, Wii, Xbox 360, PS3) is nearing the end of its product cycle. The 7th generation of platforms is ending and the next generation of dedicated handhelds (3DS, Vita) has barely got off the ground. The transition between product cycles affects revenue because companies like Nintendo and Sony are currently putting in groundwork to transition to 8th gen platforms.

Far as Feb 2012 goes, how many AAA games were released in Feb 2012? Zero

Only way dedicated devices will die is if mobile devices can provide the same gaming experiences. They can't, because mobile is currently a budget market. That's like thinking minesweeper and solitaire is gonna keep people from buying COD black ops.

MacRumorUser said:

But that's my point on vita in this particular circumstance you don't get an additional $36 worth of better content or improvements. You just get charged an extra $36!


Another aspect that I currently lament.....

I also personally think that DLC is harming the industry currently, rather than the noble intention of boosting a games lifespan, it's just turned into a way of fleecing customers with micro and not so micro transactions.

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DLC I agree with but which market is most rampant with DLC? The social/casual market on iOS which draws its profit from Freemium pricing. AKA games where DLC is needed not to provide extra gameplay but to make it worthwhile. Zynga and EA are masters of this and their games are at the top of the app store.

Far as price points I really believe most of these iOS ports suck and you get what you pay for. Exceptions are not the rule. I'm not gonna bag on people who think these ports are the same quality as their counterparts on dedicated devices but a Mortal Kombat port with crappy skins instead of photorealism, or NBA 2K with double dribble controls and no names on the jerseys, or a FF Tactics port where I can barely make out the text on a retina display are inferior gaming experiences to me.

Liquorpuki said:

The game industry is cyclical and at this point in time every platform (DS, PSP, Wii, Xbox 360, PS3) is nearing the end of its product cycle. The 7th generation of platforms is ending and the next generation of dedicated handhelds (3DS, Vita) has barely got off the ground. The transition between product cycles affects revenue because companies like Nintendo and Sony are currently putting in groundwork to transition to 8th gen platforms.

Far as Feb 2012 goes, how many AAA games were released in Feb 2012? Zero

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I was about to post the exact same thing!

If gaming was dying why are the 3DS and Vita outperforming their predecessors when they launched? Why is the next Call of Duty game breaking preorder records, seems to happen ever iteration now.

The problem with iOS gaming is how slack it all is. If they required IPA approval then we'd probably be looking at a good competitor for dedicated game systems. And by eck we're not.

Dagless said:

I was about to post the exact same thing!

If gaming was dying why are the 3DS and Vita outperforming their predecessors when they launched? Why is the next Call of Duty game breaking preorder records, seems to happen ever iteration now.

The problem with iOS gaming is how slack it all is. If they required IPA approval then we'd probably be looking at a good competitor for dedicated game systems. And by eck we're not.

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Exactly. I think if Apple wanted to be a contender they could be but they'd have to revamp the app store distribution model and raise the price point. Which is something they won't care to do as long as their hardware is flying off shelves.

Also, I can't prove it because the mobile market is pretty new, but I have a feeling the console market is procyclical and the mobile market is countercyclical. After the housing bust, console/dedicated game sales in the US dropped. I'd expect a few of those gamers to have gravitated toward $1 mobile games during the recession just like people gravitate toward 99 cent stores and fast food. Then when the economy expands again and people have more disposable income, back to better games.

It's also interesting Nintendo has enough money in the bank to survive 10 years of revenue loss. Meaning if Nintendo failed every year from the 3DS on out, it would still be around until 2021. That also means it could have one product cycle be a total bust (something that hasn't happened yet) and still survive.

The only people not willing to admit the video gaming industry is in serious decline are hard core gamers, who are too immersed in it to be objective, and gaming websites (duh).

But that doesn't seem to sway investors and analysts. Sales are down 71% since 2007. That was 5 years ago and is not going to be turned around by a handful of popular franchises.

Video game industry is dead, the sales down 71% since 2007

SAN FRANCISCO (Dow Jones)–U.S. retail sales of new videogame titles,
hardware and accessories fell 25% in February from a year earlier,
continuing the downward sales trend that has persisted since the holiday
shopping season.

Videogame-industry sales at U.S. brick-and-mortar retail shops fell to
$1.1 billion in March from nearly $1.5 billion, according to the latest
tallies from NPD Group, a market research firm. The top-selling game
for the month was Electronic Arts Inc.’s (EA) “Mass Effect 3,” marking
the first month this year a new title took the top spot. In February,
the top game, Activision Blizzard Inc.’s (ATVI) “Call of Duty: Modern
Warfare 3″ war-simulation shooter, which had been released late last
year, was the top game.

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http://investmentwatchblog.com/vide...ad-the-sales-down-71-since-2007/#.T6QdU-lSRTs

Back to the topic at hand, "value." It is only going to get harder and harder to justify the current pricing models.

You can argue about it being a cycle, which is true to an extent, but the industry has not faced this kind of a challenge before.

It's not like I am happy about it. It is sickening to see someone like Zynga generate so much revenue with the utter crap they produce. Good lord.



Michael

MacRumorUser said:

So the Vita version arrived only a few weeks ago for $39.99 and now the iOS version is available with pretty much identical content for $3.99

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WalMart's regular price for the vita game is now $19.99. Whether or not you take that as an indication of sales in the first few weeks is up to you.

It can't be good to be the first retail boxed game to make it under $20 regular price.

I did, however, buy it at $19.99.

Tinmania said:

The only people not willing to admit the video gaming industry is in serious decline are hard core gamers, who are too immersed in it to be objective, and gaming websites (duh).

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Maybe, but I also think hardcore gamers are quickest to realize what analysts keep repeating - smartphone games are killing off dedicated devices - makes no sense.

But that doesn't seem to sway investors and analysts. Sales are down 71% since 2007. That was 5 years ago and is not going to be turned around by a handful of popular franchises.

http://investmentwatchblog.com/vide...ad-the-sales-down-71-since-2007/#.T6QdU-lSRTs

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I'd really like to know how the guy calculated 71%. The US video game market in 2007 was worth $18.85 billion. In 2008 it went up to $22 billion. Then the recession hit and it went down to $19.66 billion in 2009 and $18.58 billion in 2010. The guy is claiming sales in 2012 are down 71% compared to 2007 figures, which doing that math, means he's claiming the US videogame market in 2012 is now worth only $5.5 billion???

That's wrong.

And in the bigger picture, even though US sales have dropped between 08 and now, the worldwide videogame market actually expanded about $10 billion.

Back to the topic at hand, "value." It is only going to get harder and harder to justify the current pricing models.

You can argue about it being a cycle, which is true to an extent, but the industry has not faced this kind of a challenge before.

It's not like I am happy about it. It is sickening to see someone like Zynga generate so much revenue with the utter crap they produce. Good lord

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There's been a lot of industry changes but as far as pricepoints, the market sets the price and games will sell at whatever people are willing to pay for them. People are still willing to pay $40 for a handheld game, $60 for a console game which is why sales records on dedicated platforms continue to be broken. Nobody's willing to pay $20 for a mobile game which is why mobile continues to be a budget market drawing budget quality games. Most analysts have been conflating the two markets for the past few years, acting like they're the same market but they're not. Add to that the recession, the social gaming market expansion that created a ton of middle aged women gamers, and claims that mobile gaming might actually be a gateway into dedicated gaming and there's a ton of confusion everywhere because you can find patterns that go every which way.

My opinion of Zynga is that mobile and social gaming is a bubble. You have a company like Zynga, who can't make games without stealing, is operating in a commoditized market with little brand royalty and few winners, can't duplicate its initial success, and it gets valued more than EA. That's hype at work.

Zynga has no return driver for long term growth. They're not a future standard of gaming by any means and they probably won't exist 10 years from now.

Liquorpuki said:

There's been a lot of industry changes but as far as pricepoints, the market sets the price and games will sell at whatever people are willing to pay for them. People are still willing to pay $40 for a handheld game, $60 for a console game which is why sales records on dedicated platforms continue to be broken.

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But less people are willing to pay those prices. One thing is for certain: business is down. There is no escaping that.

The sales records for a handful of titles might foretell a bigger problem: people are now less likely to buy "average" games and will only pull the trigger on a mega hit.

My opinion of Zynga is that mobile and social gaming is a bubble. You have a company like Zynga, who can't make games without stealing, is operating in a commoditized market with little brand royalty and few winners, can't duplicate its initial success, and it gets valued more than EA. That's hype at work.

Zynga has no return driver for long term growth. They're not a future standard of gaming by any means and they probably won't exist 10 years from now.

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Well the faster Zynga, and the ridiculous OMGPop (Draw Something? It's not even a game really.), and others like them go the better.

If it were up to me none of that crap would even be classified as "gaming."

On the other hand, as much as I am tired of hearing about Angry Birds, Rovio at least created something that worked very well for its intended platform. And they made a boatload of money. It's a different kind of platform that needs different kind of thinking.

On the "high" end, I love Infinity Blade even though it is on rails and is repetitive. As I am slashing and blocking I feel more immersed in the game. I don't think it would be the same with a normal controller.

On free-movement iPad games I get some of that too: panning the camera with my right hand feels more interactive than with a controller.

I grabbed the Gameloft titles that went on sale to a buck or two last month and am really enjoying them. No, they are not quite state of the art but are very nice to play (IMHO).

It's worth pointing out that I didn't think I would be playing games like this on a touchscreen device. I couldn't imagine using on-screen button would work. Yet over time, I am adapting more and more.

Time will tell...




Michael