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View Full Version : worth it to buy Lion now?




Ruahrc
May 16, 2012, 01:31 PM
I have a MBP that is running snow leopard.

Right now I sync everything together using mobileme, but that is going to disappear pretty soon. I want to migrate to iCloud but I need to make sure all my macs have Lion in order to preserve all the icloud functionality, right?

The only problem is that I know ML is coming out "very soon", and I am unsure as to whether or not I should spend $30 to upgrade to Lion, only to have to spend another $30 to upgrade to ML in a month or whatever.

Unfortunately I may have to bite the bullet and do it anyway, since I will be travelling soon and will be relying on my laptop (and iCloud remote connectivity features) during that time.

When's the last day I can migrate my mobileme services to iCloud?



ezramoore
May 16, 2012, 01:34 PM
I think there is a strong probability that you will have to have Lion to upgrade to Mountain Lion in the Mac App Store.

gentlefury
May 16, 2012, 02:00 PM
I think there is a strong probability that you will have to have Lion to upgrade to Mountain Lion in the Mac App Store.

Since the App store is available on Snow Leopard I would say that is HIGHLY unlikely.

----------

I have a MBP that is running snow leopard.

Right now I sync everything together using mobileme, but that is going to disappear pretty soon. I want to migrate to iCloud but I need to make sure all my macs have Lion in order to preserve all the icloud functionality, right?

The only problem is that I know ML is coming out "very soon", and I am unsure as to whether or not I should spend $30 to upgrade to Lion, only to have to spend another $30 to upgrade to ML in a month or whatever.

Unfortunately I may have to bite the bullet and do it anyway, since I will be travelling soon and will be relying on my laptop (and iCloud remote connectivity features) during that time.

When's the last day I can migrate my mobileme services to iCloud?

Remote login is not a part of iCloud exclusively. I was using it long before iCloud existed. Just turn it on in SL, it's called Back to my Mac, in the MobileMe panel.

You can also remote login if you have your IP address if you have desktop sharing turned on in the user prefs and go into safari and type vnc://ipaddress....that will open up screen sharing. But Back to my Mac is the easiest way...as you don't need an IP address, nor will you need an ssh tunnel if you are behind a firewall.

ezramoore
May 16, 2012, 02:03 PM
Since the App store is available on Snow Leopard I would say that is HIGHLY unlikely.

That is irrelevant. Even with the Lion USB Drive you couldn't perform an upgrade from Leopard. An upgrade from Lion to ML will likely be the only supported 'upgrade' route.

gentlefury
May 16, 2012, 02:05 PM
That is irrelevant. Even with the Lion USB Drive you couldn't perform an upgrade from Leopard. An upgrade from Lion to ML will likely be the only supported 'upgrade' route.

What are you talking about. Snow Leopard HAS THE APP STORE....never mentioned anything about a USB drive.

palmharbor
May 16, 2012, 02:06 PM
1, No OS backup discs offered
2 Mail has no bounce feature anymore
Mail has tiny b & w icons smaller than a pencil eraser
Many Software U bought will be dead meat...Word 98, appleworks et al

Advantages:

Still waiting to find some.

MacDawg
May 16, 2012, 02:09 PM
1, No OS backup discs offered
2 Mail has no bounce feature anymore
Mail has tiny b & w icons smaller than a pencil eraser
Many Software U bought will be dead meat...Word 98, appleworks et al

Advantages:

Still waiting to find some.

Word '98 and Appleworks? :D
Your reasons are interesting to say the least

basesloaded190
May 16, 2012, 02:12 PM
I think there is a strong probability that you will have to have Lion to upgrade to Mountain Lion in the Mac App Store.

This is false. It has been already stated that you can upgrade right from SL to ML.

ezramoore
May 16, 2012, 02:12 PM
This is false. It has been already stated that you can upgrade right from SL to ML.

Where?

miss.manson
May 16, 2012, 02:18 PM
Where?

I've seen that too, but I can't remember where.

As for the OP, I would wait.

basesloaded190
May 16, 2012, 02:21 PM
Where?

Here is one example. Not that hard to do a quick search.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1165460/mountain_lion_what_you_need_to_know.html

gentlefury
May 16, 2012, 02:46 PM
1, No OS backup discs offered
2 Mail has no bounce feature anymore
Mail has tiny b & w icons smaller than a pencil eraser
Many Software U bought will be dead meat...Word 98, appleworks et al

Advantages:

Still waiting to find some.

Mail has a badge now....bouncing is FNG ANNOYING! Mountain Lion will have mail notifications.

What is this B&W tiny icon your talking about? Its in color and the same size as all the other apps. If you are referring to the controls in mail it is identical to safari in size and color....I don't really understand the complaint...I use mail on my 11" MBA with no problems at all. Glasses maybe?

Also, where is the advantage to using old, outdated software? I commend apple for finally ceasing this never ending legacy support and working on a modern OS! There is NO reason you should be running software from 1998, unless it was discontinued in 1999....and last time I checked Office is around and working just fine in Lion.

Want advantages???? Well full screen makes organizing applications great. There are many new Finder features that are fantastic. The new screens interface is wonderful and I actually use it now. I personally really like the app grid. Of course the fact that it is now a true 64bit OS.

I'm sure you were one of those people that didn't upgrade to OSX until Leopard came out tho....weren't you!?!? What's the advantage over OS9! It works just fine!

Ruahrc
May 17, 2012, 12:36 AM
Remote login is not a part of iCloud exclusively. I was using it long before iCloud existed. Just turn it on in SL, it's called Back to my Mac, in the MobileMe panel.

You can also remote login if you have your IP address if you have desktop sharing turned on in the user prefs and go into safari and type vnc://ipaddress....that will open up screen sharing. But Back to my Mac is the easiest way...as you don't need an IP address, nor will you need an ssh tunnel if you are behind a firewall.

I do use BTMM, my point is if I upgrade my account to iCloud, I will lose BTMM function on my SL laptop, because Apple won't allow iCloud to function on SL. (Unless someone can confirm for me that SL computers can still "see" via BTMM computers connected via iCloud).

Once Mobileme is permanently shut down, I will have to upgrade to iCloud and if I still want BTMM I'll have to upgrade to Lion/ML on my laptop.

Straight up VNC using my IP address is insecure, unless I first go through an ssh tunnel first. And while I did that in the past, it was a hassle and one of the main reasons I got mobileme to begin with- it streamlines secure VNC connections between BTMM macs.

1, No OS backup discs offered
2 Mail has no bounce feature anymore
Mail has tiny b & w icons smaller than a pencil eraser
Many Software U bought will be dead meat...Word 98, appleworks et al

Advantages:

Still waiting to find some.

Tell me about it. This is exactly why I haven't upgraded my MBP to Lion yet- I feel that I am more productive and efficient on SL than on Lion, and honestly mainly because of the superior expose and spaces implementation. Not to mention fullscreen is totally useless if you use dual monitors (which I do). I haven't activated that feature once.

I was forced to use Lion on my 2011 mini server, on this laptop I have kept SL around as long as possible. Unfortunately I will be forced out of it in the near future if I want to keep cross mac syncing through iCloud, which along with BTMM, is stuff I use pretty regularly.

Taz Mangus
May 17, 2012, 05:36 AM
1, No OS backup discs offered


Pretty simple to create a bootable Lion install disk. You can even do this before you upgrade to Lion. I have done it. I don't find the reason you listed that big a deal any longer as a reason to not upgrade.

gentlefury
May 17, 2012, 11:12 AM
I do use BTMM, my point is if I upgrade my account to iCloud, I will lose BTMM function on my SL laptop, because Apple won't allow iCloud to function on SL. (Unless someone can confirm for me that SL computers can still "see" via BTMM computers connected via iCloud).

Once Mobileme is permanently shut down, I will have to upgrade to iCloud and if I still want BTMM I'll have to upgrade to Lion/ML on my laptop.

Straight up VNC using my IP address is insecure, unless I first go through an ssh tunnel first. And while I did that in the past, it was a hassle and one of the main reasons I got mobileme to begin with- it streamlines secure VNC connections between BTMM macs.



Tell me about it. This is exactly why I haven't upgraded my MBP to Lion yet- I feel that I am more productive and efficient on SL than on Lion, and honestly mainly because of the superior expose and spaces implementation. Not to mention fullscreen is totally useless if you use dual monitors (which I do). I haven't activated that feature once.

I was forced to use Lion on my 2011 mini server, on this laptop I have kept SL around as long as possible. Unfortunately I will be forced out of it in the near future if I want to keep cross mac syncing through iCloud, which along with BTMM, is stuff I use pretty regularly.

I'm pretty sure back to my mac has nothing to do with iCloud/mobileme and it should work across macs...since its no different then just logging in manually.

As for SL spaces being better.....I couldn't disagree more...and full screen useless???? Umm your crazy! You can have one app full screen then another app not full screen using both displays. It just keeps things MUCH more organized and its so easy to flick between spaces now, as opposed to the useless box that of finite "spaces" you can now have as many desktops/full screen apps as you like.

If you are unwilling to try something new it will always be easy to criticize what you don't understand.

robgendreau
May 17, 2012, 12:09 PM
Couple o' things.

Odds are you'd be paying twice, once for Lion, once for ML, unless you wait. Probably not a deal breaker.

MobileMe will disappear June 30, but you can keep your address. BUT I think you have to go to me.com and do the move; I'm not sure it would automatically happen if you do nothing. And of course you lose the other services.

There are alternatives to MM. Try Fruux: it allows caldav and carddav syncing, which means you can synch contacts and calendars across devices. Works quite well, and works on older system software.

Re BTMM: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4867?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

So it will disappear on older systems. As noted, there are alternatives. I use Share Tool. It's secure SSH access to all your bonjour services. Works with everything from iTunes and EyeTV to file and screen sharing. It has way more capability than BTMM IMHO. And it's easier to configure now.

And yeah, Lion at $29 to get these features is a bargain. And I agree you should keep a SL partition available cuz there's some stuff there you may miss (another Mail problem is that it doesn't forward attachments :mad: )

I had been a MM for a long time. I understand and agree Apple should move forward, and the technology behind iCloud makes syncing far more reliable. And MM in general was a dog. But there's no reason other than marketing to force people to Lion from SL to use it; I'm running most all of it's features on SL using other people's software, except for lame stuff like PhotoStream. So I am not willing to commit to another Apple cloud product until they can both demonstrate its longevity and reliability.

Rob

gentlefury
May 17, 2012, 12:40 PM
Couple o' things.

Odds are you'd be paying twice, once for Lion, once for ML, unless you wait. Probably not a deal breaker.

MobileMe will disappear June 30, but you can keep your address. BUT I think you have to go to me.com and do the move; I'm not sure it would automatically happen if you do nothing. And of course you lose the other services.

There are alternatives to MM. Try Fruux: it allows caldav and carddav syncing, which means you can synch contacts and calendars across devices. Works quite well, and works on older system software.

Re BTMM: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4867?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

So it will disappear on older systems. As noted, there are alternatives. I use Share Tool. It's secure SSH access to all your bonjour services. Works with everything from iTunes and EyeTV to file and screen sharing. It has way more capability than BTMM IMHO. And it's easier to configure now.

And yeah, Lion at $29 to get these features is a bargain. And I agree you should keep a SL partition available cuz there's some stuff there you may miss (another Mail problem is that it doesn't forward attachments :mad: )

I had been a MM for a long time. I understand and agree Apple should move forward, and the technology behind iCloud makes syncing far more reliable. And MM in general was a dog. But there's no reason other than marketing to force people to Lion from SL to use it; I'm running most all of it's features on SL using other people's software, except for lame stuff like PhotoStream. So I am not willing to commit to another Apple cloud product until they can both demonstrate its longevity and reliability.

Rob

I loved MobileMe...in some ways more than iCloud. But I can't live in the past. When new things come out, I try to embrace them...as they aren't going to go back...ever.

Ruahrc
May 18, 2012, 06:02 PM
I'm pretty sure back to my mac has nothing to do with iCloud/mobileme and it should work across macs...since its no different then just logging in manually.

As for SL spaces being better.....I couldn't disagree more...and full screen useless???? Umm your crazy! You can have one app full screen then another app not full screen using both displays. It just keeps things MUCH more organized and its so easy to flick between spaces now, as opposed to the useless box that of finite "spaces" you can now have as many desktops/full screen apps as you like.

If you are unwilling to try something new it will always be easy to criticize what you don't understand.

As robgendreau points out, if you migrate to iCloud, any SL computer will lose BTMM. There are apparently some back end changes that totally cut off anything pre-Lion from accessing the features.

Whether you like spaces or MC better is a matter of opinion I will concede that, but a large number of users out there who preferred the old expose and spaces. I think I read here or elsewhere that ML will actually have an option to enable "SL" style spaces/expose, so if true, clearly enough people complained about it besides myself. I have yet to see a situation, either theorized/demonstrated or encountered in my daily work, where Lion's MC is more efficient or more effective at managing windows than SL's expose/spaces features.

Regarding "full screen", you clearly have never used this feature on a dual screen setup before. When you bring an app to "full screen", it occupies the entire primary monitor, and blanks out the entire secondary monitor with a linen texture. You cannot have another window visible on the second display when using "full screen". So entering full screen reduces your usable monitor space from two screens to one. It is next to worthless for dual monitor setups, and it is far more effective to use the "+" button to maximize your windows to the screens, which can be a little tedious (thankfully made a little less tedious by the better window resizing mechanics) but at least lets you use windows on more than one monitor at once.

I'm more than willing to try new things, I have been using Lion (by compulsion, not by choice) on my main computer since Sept. It's just that I don't like a lot of the "features" Apple has put in this version of the OS. And I have become increasingly frustrated with Apple's "my way or the highway" philosophy towards user configurability. And their need to keep fiddling with functions solely to make them feel new and different, even though their current implementations work very well. Many regard SL's expose and spaces system to be about the best designed and most usable window switcher available on a desktop OS- why screw up what was nearly universally praised for style and function?

rob- I used to use Fruux before I got my mobileme account. I started with google, but got frustrated with it because it was not 100% reliable. Fruux worked really well, but I moved away because I wanted the expanded featureset of mobileme (BTMM, iDisk, etc...). Honestly I'm also less comfortable giving my data to a small unknown company than an established name like Apple, even though Fruux seemed to be a responsible service. They erased my account when I moved to mobileme all I had to do was email them and ask.

I'm even a little wary of giving Apple my data, since I no longer pay them to do so (i.e. they have to make their money somehow, and hopefully it's not off mining people's contacts and emails for ad revenue).

I've thought about running a contacts and calendar server off my mac mini server, but I believe client computers also have to be running Lion to work with the serving that Lion server does, so it may ultimately be a self-defeating solution.

gentlefury
May 20, 2012, 10:34 AM
Regarding "full screen", you clearly have never used this feature on a dual screen setup before.

You clearly didn't read my post.

martyosten
May 20, 2012, 04:38 PM
Just thought I'd share since i had the same question yesterday while performing a battle of the geeks with a woman at the Apple Store in Marin.

Without reservation she said I would have to be running Lion to upgrade to ML.

Personally, I like Snow Leopards. They are my favorite animal and after 30 years I'm beginning to acquire a certain disdain towards the direction computers are going. Like when did a Tweet transfer a billion dollars between banks securely? When did a Facelift (I mean book) help create an ICBM. Oh, don't know what an ICBM is? You're lucky. We lived with that fear for decades.

Back to Lion. I'll try it. My first attempt a year ago was littered with incompatibles with required software.

Enough, its a beautiful day in Southern Marin,
Marty
:cool:

Drew017
May 20, 2012, 05:00 PM
I'd go ahead and upgrade to Lion to get the feel for it. You will have all summer to play with it and feel the differences b/t it an SL. Besides, Apple says ML is coming LATE this summer, which means sometime in august or maybe even september. Also, It's only $29.99... which I'd say is a great price for a full operating system.

regarding making backup disks, you can look here (http://www.macworld.com/article/1161069/make_a_bootable_lion_installer.html)

Good luck!!!!

Also, I'd go ahead and move to iCloud. MobileMe will end VERY soon.

Ruahrc
May 21, 2012, 01:18 PM
You clearly didn't read my post.

No I read it fine. I'm just not sure what you wrote is currently possible.

When I bring an app into full screen on my setup, it blanks out the secondary monitor with the linen texture, including any windows from other apps that were on it. I cannot have another window there. If I try to cmd+tab to a different application, I lose full screen in the first app because the full screen app is now in its own desktop space, and tabbing to a different app moves the fullscreen app off the screen.

Can you post a screenshot or describe the steps you need to get your situation to work? Because I have not been able to get it to work like you describe.

Ruahrc

gentlefury
May 21, 2012, 10:33 PM
No I read it fine. I'm just not sure what you wrote is currently possible.

When I bring an app into full screen on my setup, it blanks out the secondary monitor with the linen texture, including any windows from other apps that were on it. I cannot have another window there. If I try to cmd+tab to a different application, I lose full screen in the first app because the full screen app is now in its own desktop space, and tabbing to a different app moves the fullscreen app off the screen.

Can you post a screenshot or describe the steps you need to get your situation to work? Because I have not been able to get it to work like you describe.

Ruahrc

If you read what I said it was having a single app (safari or mail for instance) as a full screen app, then other apps you want to have multiple on one screen on another, and so on.

radiogoober
May 21, 2012, 11:13 PM
1, No OS backup discs offered
2 Mail has no bounce feature anymore
Mail has tiny b & w icons smaller than a pencil eraser
Many Software U bought will be dead meat...Word 98, appleworks et al

Advantages:

Still waiting to find some.

Yeah 1!!! My copy of MineSweeper for windows 3.1 doesn't work anymore with Lion, and Commander Keen doesn't work eithers!! What a rip offfff!!!@121

throAU
May 22, 2012, 12:15 AM
Since the App store is available on Snow Leopard I would say that is HIGHLY unlikely.[COLOR="#808080"]


Given that previous upgrades have "required" the immediately previous version to be technically legal, and the app store KNOWS what platform it is running on (no lion = no download), i think you're highly likely to be incorrect.