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Espnetboy3
Jul 12, 2005, 01:42 PM
Ok, later on this week my friend will shoot some stuff on his new sony 24p camera in hdv. I will be capturing in Final Cut Pro 4.5hd . First time I will be working with hdv, could someone help me set up my timeline sequence to work with this medium? I know i need to go into user pref and setup 24p so its not a 29.97fps workflow and also if it is shot 16:9 make sure my anamorphic footage box is checked off. Any help would be great thanks.



hotwire132002
Jul 12, 2005, 02:00 PM
Ok, later on this week my friend will shoot some stuff on his new sony 24p camera in hdv. I will be capturing in Final Cut Pro 4.5hd . First time I will be working with hdv, could someone help me set up my timeline sequence to work with this medium? I know i need to go into user pref and setup 24p so its not a 29.97fps workflow and also if it is shot 16:9 make sure my anamorphic footage box is checked off. Any help would be great thanks.

First off--Final Cut Pro 4.5 doesn't support HDV (natively.) Secondly, I don't believe any Sony camera support true 24p. What camera are you using? I'm assuming FX1 or Z1? Those have a 24p effect, but do not shoot native 24p. This could actually be an advantage for you--since it's all recorded as 60i. You won't have to deal with changing the FPS on the workflow. On the other hand, you're not really shooting 24p, either.

As to workflow for FCPHD and HDV, as I mentioned there's no native support. The way I work with HDV in FCPHD is to import via iMovie, then go to the project file, control-click, and "View Package Contents". From there, I import the video files into Final Cut, convert them to DVCPRO HD (since HDV isn't supported in 4.5), and edit DVCPROHD. When I'm ready to go back to tape, I export a DVCPRO HD master, import that into iMovie, and print it out to tape.

It's not the most efficient workflow, but it was the least expensive that worked for me. I still can't wait to upgrade to FCP5, though!

Good luck with your project.

LethalWolfe
Jul 12, 2005, 03:35 PM
Hotwire,
What Mac are you running and how long does it take you to transcode the video to and from HDV?

Espnetboy3,
Another option is to, using the camera, down-convert the HDV signal into regular DV and use FCP as you normally would.


Lethal

hotwire132002
Jul 12, 2005, 03:40 PM
Hotwire,
What Mac are you running and how long does it take you to transcode the video to and from HDV?

Espnetboy3,
Another option is to, using the camera, down-convert the HDV signal into regular DV and use FCP as you normally would.


Lethal

I'm running on a Dual 2.5 G5, and it takes a while to transcode. I haven't timed it, but going from HDV to DVCPRO HD takes a while. I would estimate it takes somewhere between 3 to 5 times the actual length of the clip.

Espnetboy3
Jul 12, 2005, 04:36 PM
I wasnt aware that 4.5HD couldnt do hd work. It says final cut pro hd on my icon and I really thought it could. Second of all if i would downconvert to sd i would just shoot dv. 24p is 60i correct? Another question is can you shoot 24p dv and not be hi def or is all hi def 24fps?

hotwire132002
Jul 12, 2005, 04:42 PM
I wasnt aware that 4.5HD couldnt do hd work. It says final cut pro hd on my icon and I really thought it could. Second of all if i would downconvert to sd i would just shoot dv. 24p is 60i correct? Another question is can you shoot 24p dv and not be hi def or is all hi def 24fps?

4.5 can do HD work, it just can't work with the HDV format. You have to convert HDV into another HD format (in my case, DVCPRO HD) to work with it--but it will still be HD video.

LethalWolfe
Jul 12, 2005, 05:13 PM
I wasnt aware that 4.5HD couldnt do hd work. It says final cut pro hd on my icon and I really thought it could.

"HD" is a very generic term. It's like saying "personal computer." Including various frame rates and whether or not it's interlaced or progressive there are over a dozen different variations of HD.

Second of all if i would downconvert to sd i would just shoot dv.

Depending on the situation down-converted HDV footage will look better than footage on a DV camera.

24p is 60i correct?

No. 24p is 24 PROGRESSIVE frames per second. 60i is 60 INTERLACED fields per second. And, as Hotwire mentioned, none of Sony's HDV cameras shoot 24p. They always shoot 60i and the "cineframe 24" filter, IMO, is craptacular.

Another question is can you shoot 24p dv and not be hi def or is all hi def 24fps?

IIRC the Panasonic DVX100 shoots true 24p, but is 4x3 16x9, and the Canon XL2 shoots true 24p and has native 16x9. Both are standard def cameras. Panasonic's upcoming HVX200 will shoot a variety of formats including 24p, 16x9 DV.


Lethal

Espnetboy3
Jul 12, 2005, 06:06 PM
so hotwire when i plug in the camera via firewire to my mac and then choose to capture in fcp are there any settings i will need to have different in order to import and work with this hdv tape? Or do I have to do the whole thing you were talking about in imovie? Thanks alot

LethalWolfe
Jul 12, 2005, 06:42 PM
so hotwire when i plug in the camera via firewire to my mac and then choose to capture in fcp are there any settings i will need to have different in order to import and work with this hdv tape? Or do I have to do the whole thing you were talking about in imovie? Thanks alot

FCP HD CANNOT, WILL NOT, DOES NOT capture HDV natively. If using firewre you HAVE to go thru an intermediate step (such as capturing via iMovie) to transcode HDV into a format FCP 4.5 can read. The only way to go from a FX1/Z1U to FCP HD via firewire is to set the camera for "down-convert" and send out a regular DV signal.


Lethal

Espnetboy3
Jul 12, 2005, 07:21 PM
ok so lets say i downconvert and edit it . Can i upconvert to write to tape back to a 2:1 sort of how avid works?

Rod Rod
Jul 12, 2005, 08:10 PM
ok so lets say i downconvert and edit it . Can i upconvert to write to tape back to a 2:1 sort of how avid works?
To online at full HDV native resolution (after doing your offline in DV) you'd need FCP 5.

I'm not 100% certain yet if FCP5 does this online-offline thing for HDV the way it does for DV, but I certainly hope it's capable.

hugelush
Nov 7, 2005, 09:39 PM
a lot of the questions/concerns posted above are fully adressed in this article from HDV roadshow

http://www.uemedia.net/CPC/hdvroadshow/articles/article_13272.shtml

Hope it helps.. .. it did for me

twoodcc
Nov 8, 2005, 10:34 PM
my question is this: can i convert a file that is mpeg2 to hd quality? i know that hd is a broad term as mentioned earlier here, but you can see what i mean

LethalWolfe
Nov 8, 2005, 11:16 PM
my question is this: can i convert a file that is mpeg2 to hd quality? i know that hd is a broad term as mentioned earlier here, but you can see what i mean

You can convert it to HD *size* but it won't be HD *quality*. You can enlage the SD image so that it'll be as big as an HD image, but you are just making a smaller image bigger. You can't add detail to an image after the fact.

It's kinda like if you take a 12oz can of Coke and dump it in a 1 gallon jug. Do you now have 1 gallon of Coke? No, you have 12 ounces of Coke in a 1 gallon jug.


Lethal

twoodcc
Nov 9, 2005, 11:16 AM
You can convert it to HD *size* but it won't be HD *quality*. You can enlage the SD image so that it'll be as big as an HD image, but you are just making a smaller image bigger. You can't add detail to an image after the fact.

It's kinda like if you take a 12oz can of Coke and dump it in a 1 gallon jug. Do you now have 1 gallon of Coke? No, you have 12 ounces of Coke in a 1 gallon jug.


Lethal

thanks, i get it now. it makes sense that you can't change the quality anyways, if you could then why have HD camcorders?

on another note, what about something encoded in xvid. is that a form of HD quality?

hotwire132002
Nov 9, 2005, 02:31 PM
thanks, i get it now. it makes sense that you can't change the quality anyways, if you could then why have HD camcorders?

on another note, what about something encoded in xvid. is that a form of HD quality?

The key to HD is the number of pixels. If the resolution of the clip is 1280x720 or 1920x1080, then it's HD. If not, it's not HD. (That's a very basic explanation, but I'm trying not to get too technical :) )

Hope that helps!

twoodcc
Nov 9, 2005, 04:38 PM
so what is xvid? or is xvid good quality?

LethalWolfe
Nov 9, 2005, 06:38 PM
so what is xvid? or is xvid good quality?

Like hotwire132002 mentioned, if it's 1280*720 or 1920*1080 then it's technically HD. But the quality depends on a lot of factors (mainly the quality of the source footage).

IIRC xvid is MPEG-4 based, so it's a more efficient codec than MPEG-2 (better quality at an equal or lesser file size), but the quality of the xvid file depends on the quality of the original footage. For example, If you took a bad VHS tape and encoded it into xvid it will still look like a bad VHS tape. But if you took some good quality source footage, and properly encoded it in xvid you'd probably end up w/a good looking image (good looking for a compressed image).


Lethal

twoodcc
Nov 9, 2005, 07:52 PM
so how would i go about decompressing an xvid file? and would the image look the exact same after i decompressed it?

can final cut pro deal with an xvid file? can it decompress it?

LethalWolfe
Nov 9, 2005, 08:25 PM
so how would i go about decompressing an xvid file? and would the image look the exact same after i decompressed it?

can final cut pro deal with an xvid file? can it decompress it?

xvid, like most compressions, is lossy so once the it's been compressed and image info has been tossed away it's gone for good. To use it in Final Cut you'd have to transcode it (convert it) into a format that FCP can read (and that your system can support).

Transcoding it into DV (if you want to work standard def) or HDV (if you want to work high def) would probably be your best options.


Lethal

twoodcc
Nov 9, 2005, 08:44 PM
how do i transcode it? sorry for all of these questions, but how else will i learn?

also, which will run final cut pro better, a mac mini G4 1.42 with 1gb of ram, or a powerbook G4 1.67 with 512mb of ram?

LethalWolfe
Nov 9, 2005, 09:40 PM
how do i transcode it? sorry for all of these questions, but how else will i learn?
That I'm not sure about. You could try the following though:
1. Setup a new FCP project
2. import the xvid video and place it in the timeline
3. Export the video w/the "use current settings" (it's something like that) option selected in the export window. This will make FC transcode the video into whatever the settings are for your product (so if you created a DV project it would transcode the video into DV)
4. Import the file you just created in step 3

This may or may not work, but it's a place to start.

also, which will run final cut pro better, a mac mini G4 1.42 with 1gb of ram, or a powerbook G4 1.67 with 512mb of ram?
I would assume the Mini because of RAM. The render times might be a bit shorter w/the PB, but having more RAM will make the program run smoother. in either case you should be using a dedicated, external harddrive to store your media on.


Lethal

twoodcc
Nov 10, 2005, 12:15 AM
thanks, i'll try your advice and get back to you

twoodcc
Nov 10, 2005, 11:21 AM
That I'm not sure about. You could try the following though:
1. Setup a new FCP project
2. import the xvid video and place it in the timeline
3. Export the video w/the "use current settings" (it's something like that) option selected in the export window. This will make FC transcode the video into whatever the settings are for your product (so if you created a DV project it would transcode the video into DV)
4. Import the file you just created in step 3

This may or may not work, but it's a place to start.


I would assume the Mini because of RAM. The render times might be a bit shorter w/the PB, but having more RAM will make the program run smoother. in either case you should be using a dedicated, external harddrive to store your media on.


Lethal

how exactly do i export the video? i see under file, export, then there's quite a few choices. do i want quicktime movie?

LethalWolfe
Nov 10, 2005, 12:41 PM
how exactly do i export the video? i see under file, export, then there's quite a few choices. do i want quicktime movie?
Yes, export->QT movie.
"Current Settings"
"audio and video"
"none"
"recompress all frames" - unchecked
"make movie self contained" - checked.


Lethal

twoodcc
Nov 10, 2005, 03:45 PM
well it said i don't have the right codec or something. i guess that means it won't work?

LethalWolfe
Nov 10, 2005, 06:57 PM
well it said i don't have the right codec or something. i guess that means it won't work?
That's what I was afraid of. I know there's gotta be software that will let you change the xvid file into something Final Cut read, unfortunately I don't know what it is.


Lethal

twoodcc
Nov 10, 2005, 10:16 PM
thanks for trying. i'm new to final cut pro, so i'm trying to learn.

i have another question: when i import an mpeg file, and then i drag it to the timeline (or whatever), it only has video and no audio. what's up with that?

LethalWolfe
Nov 10, 2005, 11:33 PM
thanks for trying. i'm new to final cut pro, so i'm trying to learn.

i have another question: when i import an mpeg file, and then i drag it to the timeline (or whatever), it only has video and no audio. what's up with that?

It has to do w/mpegs formating their audio & video in a way that FCP doesn't understand. You have to demux the mpeg file (separate the audio from the video). If you search (either the net or the forums) for "demux" or "dvd ripping" you should find a how-to on the process.


Lethal

twoodcc
Nov 10, 2005, 11:54 PM
thanks for the tip. let me know if there's anything else you think i should know :cool:

LethalWolfe
Nov 11, 2005, 12:17 AM
thanks for the tip. let me know if there's anything else you think i should know :cool:

What's the saying... the more you learn, the less you know? ;)


Lethal

twoodcc
Nov 11, 2005, 09:31 AM
i figured out how to seperate the audio and video, but now i have 2 separate files. do i import them seperately into FCP, or what?

LethalWolfe
Nov 11, 2005, 04:38 PM
i figured out how to seperate the audio and video, but now i have 2 separate files. do i import them seperately into FCP, or what?

Yes. If you look up "synch" or "sync" in the FCP manuals it'll go over how to sync up separate audio and video files.


Lethal

gregprimmer
Nov 15, 2005, 04:05 AM
I can capture... But when I go to edit and playback FCP 5 does not see the camera and I can't monitor via firewire..... What's the scoop?... Have I missed something basic??? geeze I have a big project coming up and I'm testing now... Have to get this right.....please email me if you have a solution...Cheers GP... gregprimmer@mac.com

LethalWolfe
Nov 15, 2005, 04:10 AM
I can capture... But when I go to edit and playback FCP 5 does not see the camera and I can't monitor via firewire..... What's the scoop?... Have I missed something basic??? geeze I have a big project coming up and I'm testing now... Have to get this right.....please email me if you have a solution...Cheers GP... gregprimmer@mac.com

Are you shooting HDV? If so you can't monitor via FW like you can w/DV and before you record your project back to tape you have to render the project back to an HDV compliant structure.


Lethal

bigandy
Nov 15, 2005, 10:38 AM
i have another question: when i import an mpeg file, and then i drag it to the timeline (or whatever), it only has video and no audio. what's up with that?

it depends on which codec the MPEG was encoded in - you need to be sure FCP will support it. the audio and video are coded differently quite often (for example H264 Video, MP3 Audio), which is why it might work with only the audio... :rolleyes:

corywoolf
Nov 16, 2005, 03:06 PM
4.5 can do HD work, it just can't work with the HDV format. You have to convert HDV into another HD format (in my case, DVCPRO HD) to work with it--but it will still be HD video.

So I read this thread the other day. Today a kid in the advanced video class (that I am the teacher aid for) talks about his sony hdv camera and how he uses FCP 4.5 to edit in hd. So I tell him I heard HDV is not supported, and I ask him if he had to convert it to dvcpro hd. And he says HDV is supported in FCP 4.5 and that I don't know what I am talking about. So my question to you is how sure are you about this and can you give me a link to some proof?

I believe you, but this kid bet me a million dollars that I am wrong.He is a "Know it all" type of kid.

thanks

LethalWolfe
Nov 16, 2005, 03:53 PM
So I read this thread the other day. Today a kid in the advanced video class (that I am the teacher aid for) talks about his sony hdv camera and how he uses FCP 4.5 to edit in hd. So I tell him I heard HDV is not supported, and I ask him if he had to convert it to dvcpro hd. And he says HDV is supported in FCP 4.5 and that I don't know what I am talking about. So my question to you is how sure are you about this and can you give me a link to some proof?
FCP 4.5 doesn't edit the HDV natively. As mentioned before you can transcode HDV into another codec and edit it that way. That is how iMovie HD and FCE HD hand HDV. It is transcoded into AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) for editing.

I believe you, but this kid bet me a million dollars that I am wrong.He is a "Know it all" type of kid.

thanks
You can bust out a FCP 4.5 spec sheet and compared it to an FCP 5 spec sheet. One will have "HDV" listed one won't. You can call/e-mail Apple and ask them.
Here is a link to a search I did of Apple's FCP discussion/help board
Link (http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?objID=c123&search=Go&q=%22FCP+4.5%22+%22HDV%22)
Here is an article about editing HDVLink (http://www.layersmagazine.com/magazine/mayjune05/digital_video.php)

Lethal

corywoolf
Nov 16, 2005, 05:09 PM
FCP 4.5 doesn't edit the HDV natively. As mentioned before you can transcode HDV into another codec and edit it that way. That is how iMovie HD and FCE HD hand HDV. It is transcoded into AIC (Apple Intermediate Codec) for editing.


You can bust out a FCP 4.5 spec sheet and compared it to an FCP 5 spec sheet. One will have "HDV" listed one won't. You can call/e-mail Apple and ask them.
Here is a link to a search I did of Apple's FCP discussion/help board
Link (http://discussions.apple.com/search.jspa?objID=c123&search=Go&q=%22FCP+4.5%22+%22HDV%22)
Here is an article about editing HDVLink (http://www.layersmagazine.com/magazine/mayjune05/digital_video.php)

Lethal


Thanks a lot man. Can't wait to show him that tomorrow, he will play it off as "Oh I thought you meant something else, I already knew that!" Oh well, there are always the "know it alls" that refuse to be proven wrong.

Tallbeauty78
Jan 7, 2006, 06:53 PM
May I export a edited finished production into IMovie HD? Will the format change to drastically and will the quality of the movie suffer to drastically?

I recently started editing with FCP and I am becoming fairly overwhelmed with the program. So any help anyone could give me, would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks!

LethalWolfe
Jan 7, 2006, 08:10 PM
May I export a edited finished production into IMovie HD? Will the format change to drastically and will the quality of the movie suffer to drastically?

I recently started editing with FCP and I am becoming fairly overwhelmed with the program. So any help anyone could give me, would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks!

If you export out of FCP a self-contained, quicktime movie set to DV NTSC 48k (or something like that) you won't lose any quality and you will be able to import it into iMovie. But, it will appear as just one long clip in iMovie (none of your edits will transfer over).


Lethal

Mr. Anderson
Jan 8, 2006, 10:37 AM
You can always export a movie to any format that iMovie will accept - but I'd stick with FCP if you can, it has a much better workflow, even if it takes a while to get used to.

As for the Sony HDV cams - isn't the rumored new version of FCP going to handle the HDV natively?

D

LethalWolfe
Jan 8, 2006, 09:02 PM
You can always export a movie to any format that iMovie will accept - but I'd stick with FCP if you can, it has a much better workflow, even if it takes a while to get used to.

As for the Sony HDV cams - isn't the rumored new version of FCP going to handle the HDV natively?

D

FCP 5 handles HDV natively except for footage from JVC's HDV camera shot in 24p.


Lethal

Mr. Anderson
Jan 8, 2006, 09:32 PM
FCP 5 handles HDV natively except for footage from JVC's HDV camera shot in 24p.


Lethal


hmm - I think I was confusing that with the ThinkSecret article Final Cut Pro 6 will also support 1080/24p and 1080/30p DVCPROHD, sources said.

So with all these formats being used, is there any one good place to get an overview on them?

D

LethalWolfe
Jan 9, 2006, 02:40 AM
So with all these formats being used, is there any one good place to get an overview on them?

D

Unfortunately I haven't seen a one comprehensive to go to read up on everything. My suggestion would be to hit up this blog, http://www.hdforindies.com. And also hit http://www.dvxuser.com and http://www.dvinfo.net. Keep an eye out for (or search for) posts by Barry Green and Graeme Nattress.

Speaking in generalities though, DVCProHD is a higher quality format than HDV.

Lethal

Mr. Anderson
Jan 9, 2006, 09:30 AM
Unfortunately I haven't seen a one comprehensive to go to read up on everything. My suggestion would be to hit up this blog, http://www.hdforindies.com. And also hit http://www.dvxuser.com and http://www.dvinfo.net. Keep an eye out for (or search for) posts by Barry Green and Graeme Nattress.

Speaking in generalities though, DVCProHD is a higher quality format than HDV.

Lethal


You've just given me a project :D I'm going to start one all inclusive list in the Guide section here so we can all use it for reference and I'll be able to learn what they all are. With the HD formats its getting quite tough to follow...

Thanks for the links.

D

LethalWolfe
Jan 9, 2006, 09:32 PM
You've just given me a project :D I'm going to start one all inclusive list in the Guide section here so we can all use it for reference and I'll be able to learn what they all are. With the HD formats its getting quite tough to follow...

Thanks for the links.

D

Sounds like a nice little project indeed. If you want any help lemme know and I'll see what I can do.


Lethal

Mr. Anderson
Jan 9, 2006, 09:34 PM
Sounds like a nice little project indeed. If you want any help lemme know and I'll see what I can do.


Lethal

Once I get the shell set up, I'll post it in a thread here as a sticky and resource for everyone - to use and add to as they can. I'll hopefully get it started soon - after all the festivities tomorrow :D

D

lundo
Apr 20, 2006, 02:38 PM
FCP 5 handles HDV natively except for footage from JVC's HDV camera shot in 24p.

I'm trying to get FCP 5 set up to work with a JVC HD-50 deck. I captured some 720p material using HDV FW and made some edits. Trying to Print To Tape, it complained about my Sequence format, so I set that to HDV, specifying a size 1280x720, square pixels, etc. When I did that, the sequence window (and resulting HDV output recorded on the tape) contained the active video reduced to 720x360px (distorted, not 16:9!) surrounded by black.

Does anyone know why this is happening, and where else I might have to set something to get the full 1280x720 pic on the output?