Apple Internal Bluetooth Module

[MacRumors]

In a April 28, 2002 letter to the FCC (http://www.macrumors.com/downloads/BluetoothGrantLetter.pdf) from Apple Computer:


Apple Computer wishes to apply for a Limited Modular Approval of a 2.4 GHz BlueTooth Module. The module is to be used only in Apple manufactured computers including the Apple ibook and Apple Titanium. Two unique antennas are included in this application because of unique enclosure restrictions between the computers. Where applicable, data is provided for each antenna.


Test photos of a Titanium Powerbook (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=243522&native_or_pdf=pdf) are available on an FCC site. The test Powerbook is labeled P59, and what appears to be an external version of the Bluetooth module. The photo is dated from May 2002. Of interest, the leaked PowerMac photos were labeled as Apple P58 models.

Also available is the Apple Bluetooth instruction manual (https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=243523&native_or_pdf=pdf) which states that "Your computer includes Bluetooth technology..." and also claims that you can synch data between your computer and Bluetooth-enabled Palm Powered handheld devices. Palm recently announced the release of Bluetooth enabled Palms.

[barkmonster]

I Wonder if this will filter down to the desktops ?

I'm looking at getting a mobile soon so knowing that a future mac model doesn't need a USB bluetooth adapter is a good thing.

[dricci]

I can't access any of the non-Macrumors.com hosted files.

[arn]

Originally posted by dricci
I can't access any of the non-Macrumors.com hosted files.

wow... that was quick.

arn

[Computer_Phreak]

it gives me a server error....

anyone by chance download them before they were pulled?

[dricci]

If anyone can send them to me, I may be able to put up a mirror somewhere

[scem0]

You might want to say they have been pulled. Just to let you know.

As for the bluetooth, awesome. If bluetooth gets popular then that would be awesome. Especially for a laptop, no extra wires which can really hender portability. I would love if Bluetooth moved to the desktops, and if apple redid their pro-keyboard and pro-mouse. The pro-keyboard is okay, it just has nothing special. I would like if it had some more functions on the keyboard. I know not everyone loves functions like I do, but I sure have loved my Logitech Elite Keyboard. (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/details&CRID=486&CONTENTID=5013&countryid=19&languageid=1). Now, I hate the apple pro-mouse. I hate it because, like most things from apple, it is horribly overpriced. I can get a microsoft mouse that has a scroll wheel and 2 buttons for $35 cheaper, that will function just as well. After using my Microsoft Wheel mouse optical (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouse/wmo_info.asp) I would die using the 'pro'-mouse (and sometimes the mouse is hard to click if you don't push down on the right spot). Well, anyways, if apple redid these 2 products, and made them blootooth devices, then that would be sooooooooo cool.

[Mr. Anderson]

The potential of Bluetooth has still to be fully realized, but by providing an internal antenna and not a external dongal, Apple is most likely on the edge of a future trend in personal computing. Right now there isn't all that much gaget wise that's available to take advantage of it, however, putting a couple bluetooth machines in the same room should be enough to set up a link.

I'm really going to be interested in seeing Apple brand name some new devices using BlueTooth - which I see as a good possibility very soon.

Expanding that digital hub....

D

[tjwett]

I have the pic if anyone wants it. it is a .cgi file. On my machine it opens with BBEdit.

[DreaminDirector]

So it really is true when Apple finds something has leaked, the pull it really quick. Too bad they didn't pull the Powerbook Duo photo. I would have loved that. One question, what's the benefit of bluetooth beyond wireless mobile phone sync up? And what is it's range? Is it like an Airport only weaker? I'm a bit confused....

[Tiauguinho]

Post some mirrors guys. I wasn't able to see the files as well, only the Letter. How was the photo Arn? Can you explain it to us?

[beefstu01]

The FCC stuff is back up. I just loaded it. I'll download the stuff in a few and if someone wants to setup a mirror, just gimme your e-mail and I'll zip it off to you.

[DreaminDirector]

I stand corrected.....

[Rower_CPU]

It's pretty exciting to see some concrete support for all the speculation as to built-in Bluetooth in new Apple portables.

Next week is looking more promising everyday...:D

[beefstu01]

The FCC server is pretty darn slow and unreliable. I'm trying to dload the pdf's, but it's rigged to a cgi script that retrieves the pdf from somewhere, so it's gonna take me some time to find the actually file. I will personally vouch that they exist.

The pictures were nothing spectacular. There was a TiBook sitting in a large room on a table made of PVC piping. The computer had a bunch of stickers on it, but hey, that doesn't really matter, it's what the FCC used to label it, and basically they were testing the emissions of the bluetooth device. There was a bluetooth thingy hooked into the computer (it was external, but it was on a pc board, so it'll be internal), and was duct taped onto the table. It looked like a normal powerbook, but had a bluetooth device hooked up to it.

The manual is the exact thing as the description- says that you've got a bluetooth chip in your computer, and this is how you use it. On the bottom of each page it did say "Apple Confidential" and the copyright notice was 2002.

I'm working on it dloading these things so you can see them yourself, but I will say that it is not a hoax, but the real deal. Anyone else who saw the pdf's can back me up.

Looks like we might be gettin bluetooth in the next Titaniums

Cheers

>>Edit<<

Forgot to say that there is almost n way in hell that Apple could get the pdf's off of the FCC's site. The FCC publishes everything it tests, and since his does not involve national security, it's open for anybody to see.

[cyclone]

Hi there.

Seems to be my first posting (I'm pretty excited to get my first mac on 6th ;-) )

Question:
Do you think the Microsoft Bluetooth mouse works with the internal bluetooth chips?
In the instruction manual of the mouse, MS does not mention support for MACs (they did for all other ms mice).

Now, is bluetooth somehow auto-configuring and let's me use the mouse once it's discovered?

thanks,
chris

[al256]

I just downloaded the file it is 1.6mb. It contains 4 pictures. The server worked for me, I hope it works for the rest of you.

UPDATE: I just noticed that the picture shows a USB cable to connect to the bluetooth device.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by cyclone
Hi there.

Seems to be my first posting (I'm pretty excited to get my first mac on 6th ;-) )

Question:
Do you think the Microsoft Bluetooth mouse works with the internal bluetooth chips?
In the instruction manual of the mouse, MS does not mention support for MACs (they did for all other ms mice).

Now, is bluetooth somehow auto-configuring and let's me use the mouse once it's discovered?

thanks,
chris Welcome, Chris.

The intention of bluetooth technology is for it to be incredibly transparent and easy to use. So while the bluetooth connection itself (the one in your computer) would need a driver, it should be able to auto-discover and use other bluetooth devices. Now, these things change over time, and it seems unrealistic to me that one piece of hardware/software should be able to control my mouse, TV, coffeemaker, and ceiling fan without additional drivers.

I've been following bluetooth's development for 2+ years, and they have always touted its ease of configuration and use as one of its great strengths. It seems reasonable to expect that you should be able to use your mouse with very little (if any) tweaking (although you might need a new driver for your ceiling fan.

I will remember to be jealous of you on the 6th.

Chris

[scem0]

I can look at the files, maybe it is because I have a PC, but that seems unlikely. Ummmm, the PDF is just as beefstu01 said they were. The laptop looks like the current ones. I am guessing that the laptop is a current one, and that is why the blue tooth is external. I can't wait for these to come out. Hopefully it will be Nov. 5 or 6.

[sandsl]

Links not working for me.

Please could someone send me the pdf(s) and the images to

luke.sands@btinternet.com


Thanks alot!!!

Luke

[ambush]

can anyone send me the pic @

jolivierld@clichesw.com

[shadowfax0]

post the picutres please...?

[al256]

This might have the stuff. http://homepage.mac.com/al256/FileSharing3.html

There's now another way to get the pictures and I want to save my bandwidth so I'm taking the pictures off.

[chmorley]

Thanks, al--mostly helped me realize that the pictures aren't all that exciting.

Also, since these are part of the public record, I wonder if people need to worry about displaying them at all. Seems like there would be littel Apple could complain about.

Chris

[wdlove]

Welcome Chris, cyclone glad to have you aboard. What kind of mac are you purchasing on the 6th? Should be the correct day.:)

[sparkleytone]

jic he takes them down...

http://24.167.152.61/misc/bluetooth.tar.bz2

[tjwett]

i'm getting the pics ready now. they'll be here in a few moments...

[tjwett]

ONE:

[tjwett]

TWO:

[tjwett]

THREE:

[tjwett]

FOUR:

[scem0]

see, they aren't that great. The only thing theydo is comfirm blue-tooth being installed.

[tjwett]

Originally posted by scem0
see, they aren't that great. The only thing theydo is comfirm blue-tooth being installed.

yeah, I'm more impressed with getting an inside look at that crazy radiation testing room. kewl.

[LightFantastik]

Would there be any point to having Bluetooth in an iPod, or is it too slow for song swapping ? That would be great to be able to swap songs via Bluetooth on the train/bus/plane, in the bar/club, etc...

[cyclone]

Originally posted by wdlove
Welcome Chris, cyclone glad to have you aboard. What kind of mac are you purchasing on the 6th? Should be the correct day.:)

Guess that would be a TiBook.
Too bad there is no specific information on that.
I wish they will have superdrives, because this will be my only mac for a while.

However if the announcement is too dissapointing (no new graphics, no superdrive, no paint fix, no bluetooth, etc.) I am tempted to wait for the completely redone models in April 03 [my guess]:confused:

But I am hoping to switch as soon as I "can"...

Chris

[scem0]

Originally posted by LightFantastik
Would there be any point to having Bluetooth in an iPod, or is it too slow for song swapping ? That would be great to be able to swap songs via Bluetooth on the train/bus/plane, in the bar/club, etc...

that is a good idea, but I think that would be too slow, but I'm not sure.

[dajay]

have you noticed, those are two different ti. one has more stickers than the other and comes with a ufo power supply while the other has the small white one.

so this must mean, ehrm.... nothing i guess ;)

except maybe that they have been testing bluetooth for longer than we thought.

the big table is insane though. fits the new apple colors, hmm maybe that means something. :D :rolleyes:

[job]

Originally posted by scem0

that is a good idea, but I think that would be too slow, but I'm not sure.

It would be too slow.

You would have better and faster transfer rates using Airport.

[job]

Originally posted by dajay
have you noticed, those are two different ti. one has more stickers than the other and comes with a ufo power supply while the other has the small white one.

I found it interesting that one of the stickers said P59.

Lets all recall that the "DDR" towers were named P58...

[arn]

Originally posted by hitman


I found it interesting that one of the stickers said P59.

Lets all recall that the "DDR" towers were named P58...

Doesn't anyone read the original article's anymore!

:)

arn

[G4scott]

Originally posted by hitman


It would be too slow.

You would have better and faster transfer rates using Airport.

Airport will make your iPod a bit bigger... Bluetooth would be useful in the iPod to sync your addresses and calendars...

[Marvenp]

I wonder if and how Rendezvous will play a part in Apple's Bluetooth strategy.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/rendezvous.html

[Marvenp]

And how many darn posts do you have to make on this site before you're no longer considered a newbie. I've been posting here for about eight months now dammit! I'm tired of that newbie status thingy next to my name.

[chmorley]

Originally posted by Marvenp
And how many darn posts do you have to make on this site before you're no longer considered a newbie. I've been posting here for about eight months now dammit! I'm tired of that newbie status thingy next to my name. I do believe it's 30. You have 29 posts (in 10 months).

If you want information from the source, though, check out the FAQ (http://forums.macrumors.com/misc.php?action=faq).

Chris

[seven5]

ok, bluetooth is:

1Megabit per second
Range: 30 feet
Power rating: VERY optomized


Basically, the point is, is that this is for mobile devices only, not including an iPod.

Bluetooth is great for syncing really quick. It would be stupid to have a bluetooth printer or scanner, why? becuase they don't lleave your desk, why NOT have them plugged in?

Bluetooth is for talking to other devices on the go:

Getting into your car and your phone KNOWS its there, and starts talking to the Speaker phone system setup in your car.

Connect to the internet while driving down the highway while your phone is in your pants pocket; The phone passes data to the laptop. You NEVER touched it.

Synchronize your palm without putting it into a cradle

Come home and have all yoru phone calls forwarded to your home phone when it recieves a call


There are TONS of ways this can be used, and i'm very excited about it, but you just have to remember one word: MOBILE

This is not a wireless form of usb, and would be dumb to be utilize as such, its not fast, and has no range, this is for something that comes in contact with another device, and then leaves. Its exciteing and i can't wait to see the new stuff that is coming out. For now i love mine with my t68i for syncing and providing an internet connection while on the road or in the park or anywhere i want to go that has a cell signal.

[MisterMe]

Originally posted by Marvenp
And how many darn posts do you have to make on this site before you're no longer considered a newbie. I've been posting here for about eight months now dammit! I'm tired of that newbie status thingy next to my name. You really want people to know that you don't have a life?

[seven5]

another idea*** i had for bluetooth would be an electronic check register, or to even have this IN your phone.

When you use your check card, the cash register sends out a signal (for lack of agument, we'll just pretend all the encryption and authentication protocols have been taken care of) that is "caught" by your bluetooth phone or device, and records what you bought, you then can either sync it with your computer to add to your financial software, or just write it into your check register at the end of the day or night.

This would also be nice for business trips and keeping track of your work account.


*** This idea is the sole property of seven5, any act to reproduce it or act on it is in violation of Patent #1507787

[shadowfax0]

I think eveyone misunderstands the bluetooth with the iPod idea, it would be great! And I'm not talking about the file transfer, that'll always be some form of firewire, Im talking about the HEADPHONES!!

[seven5]

yeah, thats a great idea, you can already buy a bluetooth wireless hand free kit for the t68i, its really pricey though

audiophiles would always use wired ones though


the other thing is, NOW you have TWO devices that need batterys

[chmorley]

Originally posted by seven5
Bluetooth is great for syncing really quick. It would be stupid to have a bluetooth printer or scanner, why? becuase they don't lleave your desk, why NOT have them plugged in?Because I don't have anything plugged in to my powerbook except the power cord (much too often, I might add). However, airport is the solution I have chosen for the printer, and I certainly wouldn't trade this for bluetooth. A bluetooth-enabled printer could be great, though, for those who haven't invested in a wireless network. For them, it would be a cheaper solution, and less messy than wires.

People with desktops often leave their hotsync cradles plugged in all the time, as well. Wired keyboards and mice are still the standard now. All of this might change when bluetooth is implemented more widely. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if offices are largely wireless in 5 years--security being the primary stumbling block.

Chris

[shadowfax0]

i've got a wireless headset for my T39, the HBH-15, it's really schwag, and i got it for $30 off ebay, work great! :) I think the iPod earphones like that would rock, I'd really dig a pair of those

[Jimong5]

Originally posted by dajay
have you noticed, those are two different ti. one has more stickers than the other and comes with a ufo power supply while the other has the small white one.

so this must mean, ehrm.... nothing i guess ;)


the interesting thing is that the current Ti has a completely new adaptor, that only works with the current Ti. The UFO adaptor wouldn't even fit into the current Ti.

[Marvenp]

Originally posted by chmorley
I do believe it's 30. You have 29 posts (in 10 months).

If you want information from the source, though, check out the FAQ (http://forums.macrumors.com/misc.php?action=faq).

Chris

Thanks Chris. I wonder if this post get's me out of "Newbie Land"?

[Admin Edit: Yes it does, but off-topic posts like this also are at risk of getting deleted without warning]

[Marvenp]

Originally posted by MisterMe
You really want people to know that you don't have a life?

On the contrary smarta$$, I do have a life that's why I don't have time to sit around and reply to every post on this site. I read what's important to me and move on. And if i have something to say, I post. Perhaps that's why I don't have enough posts to be a member, and perhaps it's you who doesn't have a life.

I own two companies (count 'em) two in Tokyo one of the busiests cities on the planet.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Jimong5
the interesting thing is that the current Ti has a completely new adaptor, that only works with the current Ti. The UFO adaptor wouldn't even fit into the current Ti.

Not sure about that one...the plug is exactly the same for all revisions of the TiBook.

[scem0]

Seven5:
Well, I think you are wrong when you say that Blue Tooth is for people on the go. That is very true, but it would also be very useful for those 'not on the go'. I know that I have way more wires cluttering my office then I would want, and I am sure this is true with most people. Blue tooth is just basically easy, wireless connectivity that can make your room fell less 'wired.'

[Arcady]

Originally posted by Jimong5


the interesting thing is that the current Ti has a completely new adaptor, that only works with the current Ti. The UFO adaptor wouldn't even fit into the current Ti.

That's not true. My TiBook 500 came with a UFO adapter that also works fine with a TiBook 800 (and also works great with a Dual USB iBook 600). The adapter from the TiBook 800 works with the TiBook 500 also. Currently, the Ti and iBook both ship with the same adapter.

Also, you can use an adapter as old as one from a PowerBook Duo if you get a generation gap plug from Madsonline. The voltages are the same, but the newer plugs are smaller.

[seven5]

well sure, if you're using a laptop as a desktop, then there is some wires to hook up and unhook, but you would be USED to that, for using a laptop as a desktop, go get a dock if thats your game.

And sure, if someone has a problem with "Cluttered Wire" then they would WANT a bluetooth printer or scanner, but the thing is, is that that vendors wont make them, cause people don't REALLY care about that, cause its SLOW, who wants a sloww printer like that, or a slow scanner, isn't that why USB was pushed so hard?!?!?

and finally, the biggest issue is, and has been for me as long as there has been wireless ANYTHINg, is that if there is a bluetooth wireless device, there is batterys, and idon't know about anyone else, but i REALLY don't need to buy baterys for my keyboard, it plugs into my 17" studio LCD, and the wire REALLY doesn't bother me. I dont want to be stuck without a keyboard or mouse cause i'm "out of batterys"

[moo083]

Here are the 2 ultimate reasons for bluetooth to be on an iPod:
Well, before I say that, they don't need to start with them built in, just add support for a firewire bluetooth adapter that connects to guess where.
Now, on to the suggestions:

a. transfering files that are stored on the hardrive. They won't allow to exchange music though. I mean, look at them now! They will not even allow you to copy the music to your own hard drive (people do it, including me, but it wasn't exactly Apple's intention).

b. This is the cool one: You get the bluetooth adapter and stick it in your phone. Then, you get a compact flashcard that does not actually have memory on it, but a bluetooth adapter also. It has the firmware built in. You pop that into a digital camera and because the firmware is on the card itself, no native support is needed on the camera. The pictures, whenever taken, go directly to the iPod. Nearly unlimited space for all your pictures. A disgusting amount of room.

And when you find out whether that bluetooth mouse works, please tell us. I'd like to know. Thanks.

[Mirage_]

Originally posted by Marvenp


On the contrary smarta$$, I do have a life that's why I don't have time to sit around and reply to every post on this site. I read what's important to me and move on. And if i have something to say, I post. Perhaps that's why I don't have enough posts to be a member, and perhaps it's you who doesn't have a life.

I own two companies (count 'em) two in Tokyo one of the busiests cities on the planet. calm down grasshopper

[Somebody]

b. This is the cool one: You get the bluetooth adapter and stick it in your phone. Then, you get a compact flashcard that does not actually have memory on it, but a bluetooth adapter also. It has the firmware built in. You pop that into a digital camera and because the firmware is on the card itself, no native support is needed on the camera. The pictures, whenever taken, go directly to the iPod. Nearly unlimited space for all your pictures. A disgusting amount of room.


While this seems like a neat idea, I'm afraid that Bluetooth is going to be too slow for this purpose. Especially with higher-resolution cameras becoming more common. I already find USB to be uncomfortably slow for transfering 2 Mpixel images from my digicam to my desktop. Switch from USB to Bluetooth (which cuts the transfer rate by about a factor of 10), and upgrade to a 5 Mpixel camera, and suddenly things are 20-25 times slower. And this is when I'm actually taking pictures and want quick write speeds, not when I'm at home and can go do something else while a slow transfer happens.

One solution to the speed problem might be for the camera to still have a decent sized flash memory, and use that as a 'cache' to store images until they can be shipped over the slow Bluetooth link; But this requires the camera to stay on a lot more between shots (in order to transmit to the iPod) and may hurt battery life as a result.

To veer offtopic for a moment: I do think that the idea of using the iPod as a means of storing digital photos is a great one. But I think a better solution is to get a camera with a firewire interface (already pretty common on professional digicams, I think), and some firmware upgrades for the iPod let it talk directly to the camera to download images. Sure, it's slightly inconvenient to have to carry a short firewire cable, but if you're already carrying both an iPod and a camera, odds are you have a small duffel bag or carry-all with you, anyways.

I hear a lot of people wanting to do high-bandwidth type stuff with Bluetooth, but it's really not designed for that; Hopefully the next iteration of Bluetooth will be a couple of orders of magnitude faster.

[porovaara]

Originally posted by Somebody
One solution to the speed problem might be for the camera to still have a decent sized flash memory, and use that as a 'cache' to store images until they can be shipped over the slow Bluetooth link...


High end prosumer digital cams have insane amounts of onboard memory now, but then again at 5MP they need it. Where they are starting to excel is much faster interfaces to compact flash and compact flash write speeds being increased dramatically. Bluetooth sync would be awesome even though you can only expect about 74k a second. Imagine taking your camera and just laying it in a charger somewhere in your computer room and all your pics just showing up. Sure if you need the images then and there it is still better to just use a CF adapter. (For reference my cams pics are around 2.5meg each and USB speeds are already annoying).


But I think a better solution is to get a camera with a firewire interface (already pretty common on professional digicams, I think), and some firmware upgrades for the iPod let it talk directly to the camera to download images.

Nope, no firewire standard yet but there needs to be something. Prosumer cameras will be in the 7mp range next year and with movie functionality increasing at a rapid rate digital cameras are going to be carrying a few hundred meg of images on them, we need something faster.

I've been using bluetooth stuff for over a year. For some things it is awesome, but it does suck up a lot of power from mobile devices. It is slow and needs to be close if you have a lot of offending devices around (cordless phone/802.11) but it is *damn* cool.

[Postal]

I'm interested in Bluetooth headphones myself! So long as the quality is good (not necessarily great, but good), I'd love to just slip on a pair of headphones instead of having to unwind a cord. You could probably have a docking station for the headphones to power them up instead of using conventional batteries.

Imagine a situation where the only cable you plug into your laptop when you get home is for the power adapter. That would encourage me to use my laptop more, that's for sure.

[shadowfax]

i think that BT headphones would OK on the quality, MP3 at 320 Kb/sec is really good stuff, but 2.4 GHz.... that takes a lot of battery to run. you'd probably only be able to run a headphone set with a decently light battery for an hour or so at a time, i would think... personally, i don't mind the wires on my Sennheiser HD 500s... hehe.