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MacRumors
Jun 4, 2012, 01:34 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/04/microsoft-makes-xbox-centered-living-room-push-with-smartglass-wireless-streaming-and-more/)


Microsoft today made a series of announcements at E3 revealing a major push into the living room with the Xbox 360 as the focal point. Among the most interesting announcements for Apple users is "SmartGlass", a new wireless technology that is essentially a two-way Airplay-like standard that allows users to push content from their mobile devices to their TVs via the Xbox but also allows mobile devices to act as second screens for content being displayed on TV from an Xbox. Engadget reports (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/04/microsofts-smart-glass-gets-official-app-brings-airplay-esque/):SmartGlass brings AirPlay-style wireless technology to Xbox and Windows 8 by letting you send video from your tablet or phone to your TV. It then turns that second screen into an information window giving you data of the content you're watching. Plus, it updates the info on your mobile device as the content on the TV changes. The app also enables peripheral controls for games you're playing -- so you can scroll through different plays on your tablet while playing Madden on your big screen, for example.The SmartGlass companion app will be available this fall on a variety of platforms, including iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and Windows 8 for tablets.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/xbox_smartglass.jpg


Tablet serving as "second screen" using SmartGlass app (Source: Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/04/microsofts-smart-glass-gets-official-app-brings-airplay-esque/))
The SmartGlass app will arrive alongside a significant increase in the amount of content accessible through the Xbox 360, with Microsoft making a number of other announcements including a version of Internet Explorer for Xbox, a new Xbox Music streaming service, and access to streaming sports services such as WatchESPN, and live streams from the NBA and NHL. Enhancements to Kinect controls will allow for voice control of Bing searches and Internet Explorer, as well as a new partnership with Nike+ for training games on the Xbox 360.

Apple has of course been working on the Apple TV as its "hobby" focused on the living room, ramping up the device's capabilities to include AirPlay and a number of content services such as Netflix, Major League Baseball, NBA League Pass, and NHL GameCenter Live. The company has been expected to make an even more significant push into the living room with a full-fledged television set integrated with the iTunes Store, iCloud, and other services, although Apple's exact plans and timing remain unknown.

Article Link: Microsoft Makes Xbox-Centered Living Room Push with SmartGlass Wireless Streaming and More (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/04/microsoft-makes-xbox-centered-living-room-push-with-smartglass-wireless-streaming-and-more/)



MultiMediaWill
Jun 4, 2012, 01:35 PM
Watch, in a few weeks Apple will have something like this in their stores.

cgk.emu
Jun 4, 2012, 01:36 PM
..."Mac"...rumors...???:confused:

So, we stick a tiny blurb about Apple TV in here and it becomes worthy of a front page post on MR? I'm so confused.

burnside
Jun 4, 2012, 01:38 PM
..."Mac"...rumors...???:confused:

So, we stick a tiny blurb about Apple TV in here and it becomes worthy of a front page post on MR? I'm so confused.

I know you are. Let me help you out:

"The SmartGlass companion app will be available this fall on a variety of platforms, including iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and Windows 8 for tablets."

WestonHarvey1
Jun 4, 2012, 01:38 PM
..."Mac"...rumors...???:confused:

So, we stick a tiny blurb about Apple TV in here and it becomes worthy of a front page post on MR? I'm so confused.

It competes in the same arena with Apple's products, and is therefore relevant. What use is it to live in an Apple vacuum and make yourself willfully ignorant of competing products?

But, this has all been said before about everything else, Android, et al... Feel free to vote me down.

charlieegan3
Jun 4, 2012, 01:39 PM
like the idea of accepting a game invite from the tablet

Peace
Jun 4, 2012, 01:39 PM
Watch, in a few weeks Apple will have something like this in their stores.

I think they already do.

hirshnoc
Jun 4, 2012, 01:39 PM
It competes in the same arena with Apple's products, and is therefore relevant. What use is it to live in an Apple vacuum and make yourself willfully ignorant of competing products?

But, this has all been said before about everything else, Android, et al... Feel free to vote me down.


The page has been deviating from Apple-related articles for awhile.

In this news front, if it's another AirPlay copy...forget it.

Richdmoore
Jun 4, 2012, 01:39 PM
Companion apps are interesting, but I do wonder if they will be seen as a programming language that violates the app store rules.

Still, looking forward to testing it on my Xbox (and windows 8 in parallels.... Maybe)

Nice that Microsoft is somewhat embracing iOS, rather than ignore it in favor of windows phone only pairing.

tmt345
Jun 4, 2012, 01:39 PM
Worst Microsoft E3 ever. They don't care about video games anymore! All they did was show off a few multiplatforms and then focus on kinect, fitness, this, internet explorer, xbox music, usher performance, and probably other stuff (I stopped watching.)

cgk.emu
Jun 4, 2012, 01:40 PM
It competes in the same arena with Apple's products, and is therefore relevant. What use is it to live in an Apple vacuum and make yourself willfully ignorant of competing products?

But, this has all been said before about everything else, Android, et al... Feel free to vote me down.

I don't find it necessary to vote you down, seems like you are used to it, though. Hm, well, I don't live in an Apple vacuum, not at all actually. I just thought it wasn't front page worthy is all. Thanks for the snappy response, though.

Dr McKay
Jun 4, 2012, 01:41 PM
The SmartGlass companion app will be available this fall on a variety of platforms, including iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and Windows 8 for tablets.

Kudos to Microsoft to make this for existing platforms, especially rival ones.


Worst Microsoft E3 ever. They don't care about video games anymore! All they did was show off a few multiplatforms and then focus on kinect, fitness, this, internet explorer, xbox music, usher performance, and probably other stuff (I stopped watching.)

Well studies on usage from Microsoft have shown that 50% of consoles are used for purposes other than gaming, particularly streaming media.

cgk.emu
Jun 4, 2012, 01:42 PM
I know you are. Let me help you out:

"The SmartGlass companion app will be available this fall on a variety of platforms, including iOS, Android, Windows Phone, and Windows 8 for tablets."

Thanks, Professor. I don't think your rude response was necessary.

comatory
Jun 4, 2012, 01:42 PM
Microsoft, always one step behind the Apple. But it's great, I'm happy for PC users to have the same options as Mac users. I'm glad that wireless display technologies are finally here!

I remember trying out first wireless display dongles back in 2006, horrible. ATV and similar solutions are so much easier to work with.

These things will really change TV industry with lots of people canceling their cable TVs, seems like only few TV stations are catching up on trend (HBO). Hopefully it won't end up like music industry in early 00s.

alent1234
Jun 4, 2012, 01:43 PM
Watch, in a few weeks Apple will have something like this in their stores.

except apple's version will only work on Mac's and iOS. MS is smart to appeal to the entire market

and they are pulling a nice Siri on google with this

Augure
Jun 4, 2012, 01:43 PM
Me and few people know that already, but with other brands keynotes getting more and more popular, and them innovative more and more, Apple blind fanboys won't soon have a choice but too see how Apple is not innovating anymore at all.

However that Microsoft E3 conferences sucked.

Vol7ron
Jun 4, 2012, 01:43 PM
The page has been deviating from Apple-related articles for awhile.

In this news front, if it's another AirPlay copy...forget it.

The problem is that there is only so much Apple only news that can be discovered everyday. I would rather come to this site everyday and see articles that relate to Apple in some way, then only visiting the site once a week and read articles that deal strictly with Apple.

treyjustice
Jun 4, 2012, 01:43 PM
this is great. I love my xbox and iPad

cgk.emu
Jun 4, 2012, 01:44 PM
The problem is that there is only so much Apple only news that can be discovered everyday. I would rather come to this site everyday and see articles that relate to Apple in some way, then only visiting the site once a week and read articles that deal strictly with Apple.

I'd say Engadget is the place for you, then.

ayala421
Jun 4, 2012, 01:44 PM
Nice...makes me wonder WTF Sony has been doing for the last 5 years with the PS3.

PS3 is so far behind 360 at this point.

TSE
Jun 4, 2012, 01:45 PM
Looks great, and to be honest, Microsoft has the market share and the XBOX has great capabilities.

Dr McKay
Jun 4, 2012, 01:45 PM
Microsoft, always one step behind the Apple. But it's great, I'm happy for PC users to have the same options as Mac users.

Not trying to be rude, just plain curiosity, did you read the article? This isnt just "PC Users can have an Airplay rip-off" This allows anyone to stream media to their Xbox's from any device, platform independent.

Hakone
Jun 4, 2012, 01:45 PM
Silly me, I read that Title as 'Smart@ss'.

nfl46
Jun 4, 2012, 01:46 PM
Worst Microsoft E3 ever. They don't care about video games anymore! All they did was show off a few multiplatforms and then focus on kinect, fitness, this, internet explorer, xbox music, usher performance, and probably other stuff (I stopped watching.)

Awe, you mad they didn't show their new Xbox?

cadillac1234
Jun 4, 2012, 01:47 PM
Microsoft is definitely pushing the cord cutting options.
The XBox viewing options are very extensive HULU, ESPN3, Netflix, Pandora, Amazon

Problem is the Xbox360 itself... great for playing games, not so much fun navigating TV menus with a huge controller.

nfl46
Jun 4, 2012, 01:47 PM
Not trying to be rude, just plain curiosity, did you read the article? This isnt just "PC Users can have an Airplay rip-off" This allows anyone to stream media to their Xbox's from any device, platform independent.

Thank you.

Microsoft, always one step behind the Apple. But it's great, I'm happy for PC users to have the same options as Mac users. I'm glad that wireless display technologies are finally here!

I remember trying out first wireless display dongles back in 2006, horrible. ATV and similar solutions are so much easier to work with.

These things will really change TV industry with lots of people canceling their cable TVs, seems like only few TV stations are catching up on trend (HBO). Hopefully it won't end up like music industry in early 00s.

Microsoft is not a step behind.

Peace
Jun 4, 2012, 01:49 PM
The XBox 360 shows what the PPC was good for.

*sigh*

super tomtendo
Jun 4, 2012, 01:49 PM
I've never been a fan of Microsoft, but the one thing in the last ten years that they have done right... Is this Xbox Platform.

They dominate the competition when it comes to both social and online experiences - Nintendo and Sony are not even close.

Microsoft has always been a bulky and clunky product to me. But this Xbox platform is apple like - simple, clean, and it works(minus the red light phenomenon, but Apple had the same with Antennae-gate).

After watching the final hour of Microsoft's E3, I am really excited for my Xboxs future. And the Smart Glass is going to work on all platforms of devices(Windows, Android, and iOS), which is genius. They understand they need to allow iOS users the same access - surrendering for the greater good.
Sure, this is basically Apple TV, but better... until next week? We'll see.

Now, some say Xbox has ran away from gaming, but so has everyone else. It's not all about gaming anymore people. It's about the whole-experience and offering it to everyone - not a small group of people. And it's not like they don't still offer and create great games...

Good job Microsoft(Xbox Team).

Renzatic
Jun 4, 2012, 01:50 PM
Microsoft, always one step behind the Apple. But it's great, I'm happy for PC users to have the same options as Mac users. I'm glad that wireless display technologies are finally here!

It's actually a bit different than Airplay, so I wouldn't say it's one step behind. Airplay more or less mirrors what's on your iPad to your TV screen, with the only extras being volume and fast forward/rewind control. This allows for a bit more, using the tablet to display extra information while also acting as a remote to the TV.

...though admittedly, I've only played with Airplay a tiny bit, so I could be wrong about the extent of its capabilities.

burnside
Jun 4, 2012, 01:50 PM
Thanks, Professor. I don't think your rude response was necessary.

Jokingly typed that one, though it definitely sounded rude, sorry. This article is definitely more about Microsoft, but if MR would have had the title "Upcoming iOS app to feature xbox connectivity" it would feel more of an Apple related story. MR posted this article the right way and it directly has involvement with the iOS ecosystem, so I think they did a good job.

Peace
Jun 4, 2012, 01:50 PM
I've never been a fan of Microsoft, but the one thing in the last ten years that they have done right... Is this Xbox Platform.

They dominate the competition when it comes to both social and online experiences - Nintendo and Sony are not even close.

Microsoft has always been a bulky and clunky product to me. But this Xbox platform is apple like - simple, clean, and it works(minus the red light phenomenon, but Apple had the same with Antennae-gate).

After watching the final hour of Microsoft's E3, I am really excited for my Xboxs future. And the Smart Glass is going to work on all platforms of devices(Windows, Android, and iOS), which is genius. They understand they need to allow iOS users the same access - surrendering for the greater good.
Sure, this is basically Apple TV, but better... until next week? We'll see.

Now, some say Xbox has ran away from gaming, but so has everyone else. It's not all about gaming anymore people. It's about the whole-experience. And it's not like they don't still offer and create great games...

Good job Microsoft(Xbox Team).

It's not better than anything. It doesn't come out until Sept./Oct.

robeddie
Jun 4, 2012, 01:52 PM
I don't find it necessary to vote you down, seems like you are used to it, though. Hm, well, I don't live in an Apple vacuum, not at all actually. I just thought it wasn't front page worthy is all. Thanks for the snappy response, though.

This whole conceit about whether a certain story is WORTHY of the high honor or making the front page of Macrumors seems asinine to me.

It's just Macrumors, after all ... not the NYT.

There's a lot of you who have an opinion about whether 'this' or 'that' story is worthy of being on Macrumors front page. In fact, it seems almost every story these days someone pipes in with 'should this really be a front page story?'.

TennisandMusic
Jun 4, 2012, 01:52 PM
DLNA products already exist. Airplay is just a marketing term. There is no such thing as an "airplay ripoff", Apple did not invent the technology. They just gave it their own branding.

rmwebs
Jun 4, 2012, 01:53 PM
Worst Microsoft E3 ever. They don't care about video games anymore! All they did was show off a few multiplatforms and then focus on kinect, fitness, this, internet explorer, xbox music, usher performance, and probably other stuff (I stopped watching.)

What would you like them to have done instead? Turned around and said "you know what, we've got nothing. We're still working on the next gen console so until thats ready, we've re-colored the controller, it now comes in blue!".

This is a good step. Making the Xbox more useful and effectively making a new market for the console. Considering it's age, it's doing pretty damn well.

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 4, 2012, 01:54 PM
Worst Microsoft E3 ever. They don't care about video games anymore! All they did was show off a few multiplatforms and then focus on kinect, fitness, this, internet explorer, xbox music, usher performance, and probably other stuff (I stopped watching.)

Here's hoping Nintendo got all their non-game announcements out yesterday during their pre-e3 stream.

I, for one, would like to hear Nintendo announce some serious new games. By "serious", I don't mean blood and gore (it irritates me that so many companies seem to think that making their games disturbingly realistic somehow makes them fun,) but some games that aren't targeted exclusively at casual gamers.

Personally, I'd love to see Pikmin 3. Besides Kirby, Pikmin is the only "serious" series I've been able to play with my girlfriend. If Nintendo managed to come up with some new IP as well, that'd be awesome. What was their last new IP other than the Wii and Touch series... Geist? Pikmin?

super tomtendo
Jun 4, 2012, 01:54 PM
It's not better than anything. It doesn't come out until Sept./Oct.

You know exactly what I meant. Don't move away from the point.

upthetoffees
Jun 4, 2012, 01:55 PM
My first post.. all i'd like to say is.. wait for it.. wait for it.

stay glassy microsoft! :D

Hastings101
Jun 4, 2012, 01:55 PM
Worst Microsoft E3 ever. They don't care about video games anymore! All they did was show off a few multiplatforms and then focus on kinect, fitness, this, internet explorer, xbox music, usher performance, and probably other stuff (I stopped watching.)

Video games aren't making as much money as they'd like so they're trying to spin the Xbox 360 as a media center that's also a game console. Sony has been doing the same thing for a couple of years now with the Playstation 3.

Yvan256
Jun 4, 2012, 01:56 PM
AirPlay, SmartGlass... hurray for standards (http://xkcd.com/927/)! :rolleyes:

Instant messaging, voice chat, video chat, screen sharing... the only things that are standard are the Web (if you forget Internet Explorer), email, images and audio files (for the most part).

The situation is still a lot better than 20-30 years ago, but it could be better.

w00master
Jun 4, 2012, 01:57 PM
It's not better than anything. It doesn't come out until Sept./Oct.

I think he/she means it's better in that it's multi-platform.

I agree that it's "better."

w00master

Mazeman
Jun 4, 2012, 01:57 PM
Rule of thumb: Any time a product uses the word "Smart" in its name..., it's not.

w00master
Jun 4, 2012, 01:58 PM
Rule of thumb: Any time a product uses the word "Smart" in its name..., it's not.

Just like "Smart" playlists?

:rolleyes:

w00master

Consultant
Jun 4, 2012, 01:58 PM
So Microsoft is saying their tablets won't be powerful enough on its own?

Yvan256
Jun 4, 2012, 01:59 PM
DLNA products already exist. Airplay is just a marketing term. There is no such thing as an "airplay ripoff", Apple did not invent the technology. They just gave it their own branding.

Are they really all compatible? Not to mention that every time I read comments, it's about DLNA not working properly.

millertime021
Jun 4, 2012, 01:59 PM
The example with Madden is pretty awesome.

I'd love to be able to choose a play without a friend seeing my three choices.

Plus, you could choose a play while the game is showing a replay, this speeding up the entire experience.

I'd love to see this come to fruition with Madden and NCAA football games in the future.

tmt345
Jun 4, 2012, 01:59 PM
What would you like them to have done instead? Turned around and said "you know what, we've got nothing. We're still working on the next gen console so until thats ready, we've re-colored the controller, it now comes in blue!".

This is a good step. Making the Xbox more useful and effectively making a new market for the console. Considering it's age, it's doing pretty damn well.

They could have made a better effort to have something. The second hand embarassment of watching Usher perform was unbearable to me.

Where did all their first party studios go? They showed Halo 4 and that was it AFAIK (I couldn't watch the whole thing). Showing a bunch of multiplatforms never fooled anybody.

alent1234
Jun 4, 2012, 02:01 PM
They could have made a better effort to have something. The second hand embarassment of watching Usher perform was unbearable to me.

Where did all their first party studios go? They showed Halo 4 and that was it AFAIK (I couldn't watch the whole thing). Showing a bunch of multiplatforms never fooled anybody.

no more growth in "hard core" shoot/kill/hack everyone dead gaming. the growth is in family services on your platform

jtrenthacker
Jun 4, 2012, 02:01 PM
Can I just have Skype over Kinect please?

charlieegan3
Jun 4, 2012, 02:01 PM
can see this being a lot of work for content providers to add in. However i think especially for games it could be great if done well.

Mazeman
Jun 4, 2012, 02:02 PM
Just like "Smart" playlists?

:rolleyes:

w00master

I rest my case.:)

charlituna
Jun 4, 2012, 02:02 PM
Watch, in a few weeks Apple will have something like this in their stores.

They already have one half of it and have for a while so that wouldn't be a huge shock and it won't be because Microsoft thought of it first and Apple is just copying their 'brilliant idea' that they basically copied from Apple's AirPlay.

inspirations365
Jun 4, 2012, 02:02 PM
It's actually a bit different than Airplay, so I wouldn't say it's one step behind. Airplay more or less mirrors what's on your iPad to your TV screen, with the only extras being volume and fast forward/rewind control. This allows for a bit more, using the tablet to display extra information while also acting as a remote to the TV.

...though admittedly, I've only played with Airplay a tiny bit, so I could be wrong about the extent of its capabilities.

No. Case in point: the Vevo app. Airplay that to your Apple TV. This is what Microsoft showed today. NOTHING. NEW.

chrmjenkins
Jun 4, 2012, 02:02 PM
Are they really all compatible? Not to mention that every time I read comments, it's about DLNA not working properly.

DLNA covers a lot more products than AirPlay does. More compatibility problems would be expected.

Furthermore, as I understand it, SmartGlass is the first real attempt at making it bi-directional, whereas AirPlay and DLNA seem to be concerned with getting it to a TV ultimately.

charlieegan3
Jun 4, 2012, 02:04 PM
So Microsoft is saying their tablets won't be powerful enough on its own?

this will be cross platform, not just microsoft tablets.

Also they are saying their devices will be more useful when paired with other devices, not that they are underpowered.

charlituna
Jun 4, 2012, 02:04 PM
It competes in the same arena with Apple's products, and is therefore relevant. What use is it to live in an Apple vacuum and make yourself willfully ignorant of competing products?


I actually have to disagree with you. I'm a smart person if I want to know about what the other boys are doing I can go find it. I'm hear to find out what Apple is doing and I'm also not fond of hit whoring articles that justify being made into front page news because of a three letter word being in the article.

Now if MR were to add some value said by doing a comparison of this tech versus Airplay, that might be something. Still not in my opinion Front Page news but it would be more than just spewing another reprint into the stream

M. Malone
Jun 4, 2012, 02:07 PM
Very happy that Microsoft acknowledges that other options exist and won't penalize you for using these options. Let's see how well this works with ios and Android.

rmwebs
Jun 4, 2012, 02:07 PM
They could have made a better effort to have something. The second hand embarassment of watching Usher perform was unbearable to me.

Where did all their first party studios go? They showed Halo 4 and that was it AFAIK (I couldn't watch the whole thing). Showing a bunch of multiplatforms never fooled anybody.

This isnt how it works. Companies dont think "Crap, we've got to go to a convention in 6 months, quick...make something!", if something isn't ready, it wont be released, they arent going to develop something that'll make a very low revenue just for a convention, when instead they can get big publicity by announcing something that will sell more units. More units sold = more revenue, releasing a couple of games = very low revenue.

Think about it:

Sell a console, and you've got a new customer who will buy your games, pay for subscriptions, etc.

Sell a game and you get existing customers buying that game for a few months, then it drops off sharply to near zero revenue.

Either way, I'm pretty sure Microsoft have a much better idea on how to run their business than you or I do. :rolleyes:

charlituna
Jun 4, 2012, 02:08 PM
Kudos to Microsoft to make this for existing platforms, especially rival ones.

But are they really making it for rival platforms. The way I read it this only works with iOS if you have an Xbox. That's the hub for your use, it won't work without it.

If it was that would be something. A lot of folks like the notion of those Tony Stark, Avatar etc flick to pull something off a computer screen to your tablet or off your "Surface" style desk to a 3d in air display UIs and this is a step in that direction. Which is cool looking and somewhat practical. But are they really going for universal software or just a way to justify you putting something Microsoft into your mix. Seems more like the latter to me. Which from business standpoint is smart. And hopefully the idea pays off the way they want.

charlieegan3
Jun 4, 2012, 02:11 PM
Nice...makes me wonder WTF Sony has been doing for the last 5 years with the PS3.

PS3 is so far behind 360 at this point.

wait for their conference tomorrow.

charlituna
Jun 4, 2012, 02:11 PM
Not trying to be rude, just plain curiosity, did you read the article? This isnt just "PC Users can have an Airplay rip-off" This allows anyone to stream media to their Xbox's from any device, platform independent.

key being TO THEIR XBOX. If you don't have that then having an iPhone etc doesn't matter.

this is a gimmick, albeit a potentially very good one, to keep the XBox going. to make sure that it keeps a place in the living room with the Apple TV etc.

Bubba Satori
Jun 4, 2012, 02:14 PM
Microsoft is definitely pushing the cord cutting options.
The XBox viewing options are very extensive HULU, ESPN3, Netflix, Pandora, Amazon

Problem is the Xbox360 itself... great for playing games, not so much fun navigating TV menus with a huge controller.

Yeah, the Xbox 360 is really showing it's seven year old age.
Hopefully the 720 will address those issues when it comes out next year.

till
Jun 4, 2012, 02:15 PM
The app also enables peripheral controls for games you're playing -- so you can scroll through different plays on your tablet while playing Madden on your big screen, for example.
Oooh, I like it. It's the non-portable version of the Nintendo DS.

It depends hugely on third-party support, though. Since it's an optional feature that not everyone will have, it's going to be difficult to convince developers to adopt it.

Bubba Satori
Jun 4, 2012, 02:16 PM
key being TO THEIR XBOX. If you don't have that then having an iPhone etc doesn't matter.

this is a gimmick, albeit a potentially very good one, to keep the XBox going. to make sure that it keeps a place in the living room with the Apple TV etc.

Yeah there are so many more Apple TVs than Xboxes in homes. :rolleyes:
MS is doomed. :D

baleensavage
Jun 4, 2012, 02:16 PM
As much as I love Apple, Microsoft has made much more headway in the living room than Apple has. The big difference between this and Airplay is that it will work with multiple platforms and mobile devices. Also far more living rooms have an XBox than have an AppleTV. If anything this seems a jab at the Wii U, basically saying that with your existing tablet or smartphone, you can connect to your XBox, so why bother with the new Wii U.

charlituna
Jun 4, 2012, 02:16 PM
...though admittedly, I've only played with Airplay a tiny bit, so I could be wrong about the extent of its capabilities.

And you are wrong. What you describe is one use of Airplay, but there are uses well beyond that if the developers wish to include them. A prime example is Real Racing 2 HD. Google it.

bbeagle
Jun 4, 2012, 02:18 PM
To those who don't understand Apple TV and Airplay.....

Airplay does not just mirror the screen - it allows any iPhone or iPad app to send any information it wants to the Apple TV, not just what the device is displaying.

For example, when going through iTunes on the Apple TV using an iPad, you can see all your cover art using coverflow, and type using a keyboard. The keyboard and coverflow are NOT seen on the tv - what you are currently watching is on the TV. After selecting a song/music/video, you can then surf on the iPad for the next video/movie/music while the current one is still playing. YouTube, Vevo work the same way, as do countless other apps.

The only difference is that Apple requires your controlling device to be an iOS device, while Microsoft says it can be a few more options (namely because their Windows Phone isn't so popular yet - or they would follow Apple's lead here)

BOTH Microsoft AND Apple require the device 'airplaying' or 'Smartglassing' to be their own proprietary system (an XBox or Apple TV).

charlituna
Jun 4, 2012, 02:18 PM
It's just Macrumors, after all ... not the NYT.


And folks come here to read about Mac, or at least Apple, related stuff. Not the news of the world.

You call your site Macrumors there are certain expectations. Asking you to live within those, especially in a key area of site isn't uncalled for.

If they want to make more money by expanding their page hits etc then they should change their name to give a correct expectation. Say to techrumors.com

Bubba Satori
Jun 4, 2012, 02:18 PM
Worst Microsoft E3 ever. They don't care about video games anymore! All they did was show off a few multiplatforms and then focus on kinect, fitness, this, internet explorer, xbox music, usher performance, and probably other stuff (I stopped watching.)

:p

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/haters-gonna-hate-cat.jpg

Pakaku
Jun 4, 2012, 02:23 PM
They understand they need to allow iOS users the same access - surrendering for the greater good.

That's what Apple did with the iPod, allowed Windows users to use it. That was a good strategy for Apple, it can work with Microsoft too.

comatory
Jun 4, 2012, 02:26 PM
Not trying to be rude, just plain curiosity, did you read the article? This isnt just "PC Users can have an Airplay rip-off" This allows anyone to stream media to their Xbox's from any device, platform independent.

I was speaking more generally on the whole concept. I know that SmartGlass offers more than just mirroring capabilities - kudos to MS. Didn't mean to simplify things.

I'm just happy that wireless display technologies are becoming reality now because that is something I craved for few years ago when building my home cinema - the mess of cables drove me crazy.

You could say that SmartGlass is more than I asked for :)

OK. Saying Microsoft is step behind Apple was a stupid comment. I take that back - didn't want to start flaming or anything.

Dr McKay
Jun 4, 2012, 02:26 PM
key being TO THEIR XBOX. If you don't have that then having an iPhone etc doesn't matter.

this is a gimmick, albeit a potentially very good one, to keep the XBox going. to make sure that it keeps a place in the living room with the Apple TV etc.

But are they really making it for rival platforms. The way I read it this only works with iOS if you have an Xbox. That's the hub for your use, it won't work without it.

If it was that would be something. A lot of folks like the notion of those Tony Stark, Avatar etc flick to pull something off a computer screen to your tablet or off your "Surface" style desk to a 3d in air display UIs and this is a step in that direction. Which is cool looking and somewhat practical. But are they really going for universal software or just a way to justify you putting something Microsoft into your mix. Seems more like the latter to me. Which from business standpoint is smart. And hopefully the idea pays off the way they want.

Well naturally you'll require an Xbox for a technology who's purpose is to expand on your Xbox, and yes it is Multi-platform, you can do it from iPhone, Android, Windows Phone and Windows 8, I simply don't understand your complaints, it'd be like me complaining I can't Airplay my music from iTunes or my iPhone because I don't own an Apple TV.

Winni
Jun 4, 2012, 02:26 PM
The only difference is that Apple requires your controlling device to be an iOS device, while Microsoft says it can be a few more options (namely because their Windows Phone isn't so popular yet)

The difference, as always, is that Apple requires you to completely lock yourself into their walled garden while others offer options to integrate third party products.

What still blows my mind is this "the AppleTV is just a hobby" bollocks. They charge 129 bucks for that "hobby" product and tell you straight in your face that since it's just a hobby you better don't expect anything for your money. I'm not sure if whether this says something about Apple or if it says something about their average customers.

dokujaryu
Jun 4, 2012, 02:27 PM
To those who don't understand Apple TV and Airplay.....

Airplay does not just mirror the screen - it allows any iPhone or iPad app to send any information it wants to the Apple TV, not just what the device is displaying.

^ I could be wrong, but I think only iPad supports actual mirroring of the host device to the screen.

drewisanapple
Jun 4, 2012, 02:33 PM
^ I could be wrong, but I think only iPad supports actual mirroring of the host device to the screen.

It's the iPads, iPhone 4S, and Mountian Lion (OSX).

benpatient
Jun 4, 2012, 02:38 PM
"Problem is the Xbox360 itself... great for playing games, not so much fun navigating TV menus with a huge controller."

Who does that? My 360 controller sits in a drawer, and is only pulled out when I play an "old-school" game that doesn't support Kinect. You did know that you can control a 360 with any programmed IR remote, right?

rmwebs
Jun 4, 2012, 02:41 PM
key being TO THEIR XBOX. If you don't have that then having an iPhone etc doesn't matter.

this is a gimmick, albeit a potentially very good one, to keep the XBox going. to make sure that it keeps a place in the living room with the Apple TV etc.

Sorry, but thats a pretty stupid comment.

With AirPlay the key is TO THEIR APPLE TV. It's the exact same situation, except an Xbox is much more useful than the current Apple TV.

tmt345
Jun 4, 2012, 02:41 PM
This isnt how it works. Companies dont think "Crap, we've got to go to a convention in 6 months, quick...make something!", if something isn't ready, it wont be released, they arent going to develop something that'll make a very low revenue just for a convention, when instead they can get big publicity by announcing something that will sell more units. More units sold = more revenue, releasing a couple of games = very low revenue.

Think about it:

Sell a console, and you've got a new customer who will buy your games, pay for subscriptions, etc.

Sell a game and you get existing customers buying that game for a few months, then it drops off sharply to near zero revenue.

Either way, I'm pretty sure Microsoft have a much better idea on how to run their business than you or I do. :rolleyes:

Why their conference was bad is irrelevant. When you watch an E3 conference your not thinking "Oh wow, I bet this is going to increase their revenues by 15%!" Its a venue to show off to the world your hand and try to build hype for your console/game. I don't know why you are throwing business into this.

The fact is... they didn't have a good conference.

w00master
Jun 4, 2012, 02:43 PM
And you are wrong. What you describe is one use of Airplay, but there are uses well beyond that if the developers wish to include them. A prime example is Real Racing 2 HD. Google it.

Except the latency is terrible. Airplay really isn't built for games. I know you want to dream about that, but latency kills it.

w00master

SockRolid
Jun 4, 2012, 02:45 PM
Engadget reports:
SmartGlass brings AirPlay-style wireless technology to Xbox and Windows 8 by letting you send video from your tablet or phone to your TV. [...]

Hmmm. Sounds vaguely familiar. I wonder if Ballmer has tried AirPlay...


[...] It then turns that second screen into an information window giving you data of the content you're watching. Plus, it updates the info on your mobile device as the content on the TV changes.

What a shame. Microsoft was copying AirPlay so well until then.

marcusj0015
Jun 4, 2012, 02:45 PM
I didn't know that this was MicrosoftRumors...

flash84x
Jun 4, 2012, 02:46 PM
I've never been a fan of Microsoft, but the one thing in the last ten years that they have done right... Is this Xbox Platform.

They dominate the competition when it comes to both social and online experiences - Nintendo and Sony are not even close.

Microsoft has always been a bulky and clunky product to me. But this Xbox platform is apple like - simple, clean, and it works(minus the red light phenomenon, but Apple had the same with Antennae-gate).

After watching the final hour of Microsoft's E3, I am really excited for my Xboxs future. And the Smart Glass is going to work on all platforms of devices(Windows, Android, and iOS), which is genius. They understand they need to allow iOS users the same access - surrendering for the greater good.
Sure, this is basically Apple TV, but better... until next week? We'll see.

Now, some say Xbox has ran away from gaming, but so has everyone else. It's not all about gaming anymore people. It's about the whole-experience and offering it to everyone - not a small group of people. And it's not like they don't still offer and create great games...

Good job Microsoft(Xbox Team).

I agree with most of this but saying "Antennae-gate" and red-ring of death are similar situations is very off. Red-ring of death was pretty rampant and made the console useless. The "Antennae-gate" issue was merely a usability issue, like Steve said "don't hold it like that".

Lone Deranger
Jun 4, 2012, 02:46 PM
Microsoft XBox news now? :confused:

bbeagle
Jun 4, 2012, 02:48 PM
What still blows my mind is this "the AppleTV is just a hobby" bollocks. They charge 129 bucks for that "hobby" product and tell you straight in your face that since it's just a hobby you better don't expect anything for your money. I'm not sure if whether this says something about Apple or if it says something about their average customers.

Actually, $99.

But still, I agree that it's odd Apple calls this just a 'hobby'. I'm guessing, because if they want to cancel this product completely, change the interface or features abruptly, they can do this because it's 'just a hobby'.

I disagree with your premise that users don't expect more for the money. I have 3 Apple TVs in my household, and we can't live without them. Numerous friends and family have seen our Apple TVs and bought their own because of it's uses.

(We use it for streaming our daughter's Disney movies - instead of her scratching the physical media. The start up is instantaneous with no ads, and also great for those with sons/daughters who change their mind. She can ask for Cinderella, then 5 seconds later ask for Beauty and the Beast, and it's no problem with the remote. My brother now has thousands of movies - none bought through iTunes - he can all watch in his household at the click of a button. And all bedrooms have the same content, there's no need for a PC connected to each TV that has to be updated separately. The Apple TV is invaluable for this. I don't know any other product that makes this so easy - along with the best Netflix implementation I've seen from any of the Roku/X-Box/Tivo boxes)

bungiefan89
Jun 4, 2012, 02:50 PM
Microsoft is definitely pushing the cord cutting options.
The XBox viewing options are very extensive HULU, ESPN3, Netflix, Pandora, Amazon

Problem is the Xbox360 itself... great for playing games, not so much fun navigating TV menus with a huge controller.God, WHAT is wrong with physical controllers!? I assume you'd prefer everything to function like Kinect? Where you just hope the device you're trying to interact with can somehow interpret whatever vague gestures you make?

When did we get so lazy that we decided using a peripheral as well-designed as a wireless xbox 360 is somehow "inconvenient"?

bbeagle
Jun 4, 2012, 02:53 PM
What a shame. Microsoft was copying AirPlay so well until then.

I guess you don't know anything about AirPlay. AirPlay does this exact thing too. Try not to drink the haterade.

Bubba Satori
Jun 4, 2012, 02:54 PM
Microsoft XBox news now? :confused:

Well, there's no Apple computer news and Apple users own Xboxes...

w00master
Jun 4, 2012, 02:55 PM
I didn't know that this was MicrosoftRumors...

Guess you didn't read. This feature is also for iOS.

w00master

afurry13
Jun 4, 2012, 02:56 PM
God, WHAT is wrong with physical controllers!? I assume you'd prefer everything to function like Kinect? Where you just hope the device you're trying to interact with can somehow interpret whatever vague gestures you make?

When did we get so lazy that we decided using a peripheral as well-designed as a wireless xbox 360 is somehow "inconvenient"?

Simple... Xbox controller requires 2 hands. Normal remote uses 1.

However, anyone who complains about that should have purchased a harmony remote years ago.

Renzatic
Jun 4, 2012, 02:57 PM
When did we get so lazy that we decided using a peripheral as well-designed as a wireless xbox 360 is somehow "inconvenient"?

You do have to admit that the 360 pad isn't the best for navigating through menus. Preferably, it'd use a controller that'd fit in one hand.

Anyway, the jist of this entire argument is that Microsoft is copying Apple for a technology they themselves didn't even invent. Like MS never had one of the better PC oriented media center setups readily available as far back as XP, and what we're seeing here isn't an extension of that.

No. Apple has AppleTV. Anything that comes out after that is a shameless ripoff. Excuse me while I sigh and abuse the eyeroll and Apple logo emotes. The discussions going on in this thread are pretty dumb when it comes right down to it.

w00master
Jun 4, 2012, 02:57 PM
Simple... Xbox controller requires 2 hands. Normal remote uses 1.

This myth is about as bad as the one button mouse for Apple.


You can use most IR remotes you know.

w00master

Glideslope
Jun 4, 2012, 03:00 PM
As much as I love Apple, Microsoft has made much more headway in the living room than Apple has. The big difference between this and Airplay is that it will work with multiple platforms and mobile devices. Also far more living rooms have an XBox than have an AppleTV. If anything this seems a jab at the Wii U, basically saying that with your existing tablet or smartphone, you can connect to your XBox, so why bother with the new Wii U.

And this will decide the outcome. Once again it will be about the end user experience.

Microsoft will offer their product supporting multiple OS'. Apple will be in the Apple Eco System. Period. If Microsoft pulls this off with cross platform performance that is seamless it will be a problem for Apple.

My money will ride on Apples announcements at WWDC. Many of the features Microsoft demoed require WIN 8. Win 8 IMO is only going to be sold on new build PC's for a while. Tons on Businesses still run on WIN XP NT Server, and are just moving to WIN 7.

10.8, iOS6, and a new ATV with a Sharp LED in 32" to 60" all in one swoop.
Followed by a 7" iPad with iControl. ;)

bergert
Jun 4, 2012, 03:01 PM
They already have one half of it and have for a while so that wouldn't be a huge shock and it won't be because Microsoft thought of it first and Apple is just copying their 'brilliant idea' that they basically copied from Apple's AirPlay.

I awaiting since AirPlay was announced that Apple releases the Video part. So far they have not. So I can send the music from iTunes to my TV (as a remote speaker) but I still CANNOT do the same with video. Oh, and you CANNOT mirror the display of my MacPro onto the TV either - simply because my LCD runs a much higher resolution (2650x1600) my 55" is capable of.

So maybe this is the kick in Apple's butt - so that DENON can release an AV amp which will deserve the "V" in (AV) because it supports AirPlay video.

Oh, but that Tim doesn't like .... waiting ....
http://usa.denon.com/us/Airplayus/index.html

burnside
Jun 4, 2012, 03:03 PM
Guess you didn't read. This feature is also for iOS.

w00master

There's a lot of that going on in this forum lately.

Mad-B-One
Jun 4, 2012, 03:06 PM
Microsoft is definitely pushing the cord cutting options.
The XBox viewing options are very extensive HULU, ESPN3, Netflix, Pandora, Amazon

Problem is the Xbox360 itself... great for playing games, not so much fun navigating TV menus with a huge controller.

Just for you, they just came up with this:

http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/xbox-360-media-remote.jpg

Which I use and it is one of the smallest remotes there is. It can be coded for your TV and you can use most of its functions as well. $19.99 at WalMart and other places. Used the white one before and it worked well, too (my son dropped it once to many times).

burnside
Jun 4, 2012, 03:07 PM
But are they really making it for rival platforms. The way I read it this only works with iOS if you have an Xbox. That's the hub for your use, it won't work without it.

MS could have said, "to use these XBOX features, you will need a Windows Phone". Instead, they will have apps readily available from the rival platforms. It's not like Apple where you need an iOS/OSX platform to use FaceTime.

super tomtendo
Jun 4, 2012, 03:08 PM
I agree with most of this but saying "Antennae-gate" and red-ring of death are similar situations is very off. Red-ring of death was pretty rampant and made the console useless. The "Antennae-gate" issue was merely a usability issue, like Steve said "don't hold it like that".

I guess, I meant more from a publicity stand point

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 03:10 PM
I'm not sure where people are getting the smart glass app being an attack against the AppleTV. This implies that whatever Apple is going to do in the TV market requires you own an iPod Touch at the very least and an iPad if you want full functionality (which would triple the price of today's AppleTV if you don't own another iOS device). Yes, Apple could do this but I don't see them doing it. Apple doesn't see iOS devices as peripherals now (unless you count iCloud, then everything else they make is a peripheral to iCloud).

Sure they expanded Xbox marketplace into music (is this just a rebranding of Zune?) is competing with Apple. But the smart glass app has almost nothing to do with that. The Bing voice command thing is more of an attack against Apple (although I doubt it will be competitive against Siri with dev APIs...which I'm completely making up but assume will be in iOS 6).

Anyway, the whole smart glass thing looks more like a response to the Wii U (which is a basically a Wii with the graphics abilities of an Xbox 360 and a weird cross between a 7 inchish tablet and a controller). Essentially, it lets them compete against the Wii U without having everyone buy new hardware (since probably a fair number of people own a tablet of some sort).

This, of course, assumes that the iOS app will have full game functionality. I doubt Microsoft would intentionally cripple it to such a degree as being useless but it could run afoul of App Store rules (e.g. if it is downloading new code on the fly that would probably get it banned). We have to see how the game integration actually works before we can say.

PS: As far as Airplay, Apple isn't advertising this feature heavily yet so it shouldn't be considered a core functionality of the AppleTV.

neiltc13
Jun 4, 2012, 03:10 PM
Those complaining that Microsoft is copying Apple - dream on.

Xbox 360 is a FAR superior media device. On mine I can get BBC iPlayer, 4OD, LoveFilm, Netflix and streaming LIVE TV from Sky. In the US there is also Hulu and a music store available

They have a far more solid multi-device strategy than Apple. Microsoft knows that one interface doesn't fit all, so modify accordingly for each device, while retaining the flavour.

GenesisST
Jun 4, 2012, 03:11 PM
I agree with most of this but saying "Antennae-gate" and red-ring of death are similar situations is very off. Red-ring of death was pretty rampant and made the console useless. The "Antennae-gate" issue was merely a usability issue, like Steve said "don't hold it like that".

Wow... head in sand much...

Although the antenna problem is not as fatal as the red-ring.

CausticPuppy
Jun 4, 2012, 03:11 PM
Nice...makes me wonder WTF Sony has been doing for the last 5 years with the PS3.

PS3 is so far behind 360 at this point.

The only thing my PS3 is good for these days is for playing Blu-Ray. Sigh...

scoobydoo99
Jun 4, 2012, 03:11 PM
Watch, in a few weeks Apple will have something like this in their stores.

LOL.
Like the article said: "SmartGlass brings AirPlay-style wireless technology to Xbox and Windows 8 ..."

In other words, this is Microsoft bringing Apple's capabilities to THEIR stores! :rolleyes:

Mad-B-One
Jun 4, 2012, 03:14 PM
Those complaining that Microsoft is copying Apple - dream on.

Xbox 360 is a FAR superior media device. On mine I can get BBC iPlayer, 4OD, LoveFilm, Netflix and streaming LIVE TV from Sky. In the US there is also Hulu and a music store available

They have a far more solid multi-device strategy than Apple. Microsoft knows that one interface doesn't fit all, so modify accordingly for each device, while retaining the flavour.

Don't forge last.fm - that is free and music I love it.

baryon
Jun 4, 2012, 03:19 PM
Does everyone notice this new trend of "Buy two very expensive devices, and connect them using a third very expensive device"? This applies for Thunderbolt, too, by the way.

On another note, Microsoft, please do the whole world a favor and stop developing Internet Explorer! Everyone wins: Developers can finally build websites that work the way they should, users get to experience the web the way it was intended, and Microsoft can fire all the idiots who develop Internet Explorer, and save huge amounts of money! The only reason anyone uses that idiotic browser is because they're too damn stupid to download another one, and Microsoft knows that very well…

The only positive thing I can think of about Internet Explorer is that one day, when it will cease to exist, the world will become a better place, all of a sudden.

franswa za
Jun 4, 2012, 03:19 PM
Microsoft, always one step behind the Apple. But it's great, I'm happy for PC users to have the same options as Mac users. I'm glad that wireless display technologies are finally here!

I remember trying out first wireless display dongles back in 2006, horrible. ATV and similar solutions are so much easier to work with.

These things will really change TV industry with lots of people canceling their cable TVs, seems like only few TV stations are catching up on trend (HBO). Hopefully it won't end up like music industry in early 00s.

papi, you have just stepped into a (mostly) blind, mute, deaf and dumb, appel/apple/aapl fanboyishnismissnismess, you try and sort it out..... get out before you are infected..... already

scoobydoo99
Jun 4, 2012, 03:22 PM
Those complaining that Microsoft is copying Apple - dream on.

Xbox 360 is a FAR superior media device. On mine I can get BBC iPlayer, 4OD, LoveFilm, Netflix and streaming LIVE TV from Sky. In the US there is also Hulu and a music store available

They have a far more solid multi-device strategy than Apple. Microsoft knows that one interface doesn't fit all, so modify accordingly for each device, while retaining the flavour.

Thanks. That was the best laugh I've had all day.

So the dizzying, frenetic multiplicity of interface conventions employed by Microsoft are INTENTIONAL, because "one interface doesn't fit all"?? wow. I never knew that was the reason!

At least they do retain the "flavor", so their customers can enjoy the Microsoft experience. :D

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 03:23 PM
Buy two expensive devices, and connect them using a third expensive device! Yay! Now download expensive content, otherwise there's no point.

On another note, Microsoft, please do the whole world a favor and stop developing Internet Explorer! Everyone wins: Developers can finally build websites that work the way they should, users get to experience the web the way it was intended, and Microsoft can fire all the idiots who develop Internet Explorer, and save huge amounts of money! The only reason anyone uses that idiotic browser is because they're too damn stupid to download another one, and Microsoft knows that very well...

To be fair, the latest (metro) versions of IE are quite a bit better than the IE6 mess that spawned all this (deserved) IE hate. I still prefer Webkit but they're trying (honestly, I think they're trying more than Mozilla sometimes).

As far as connectivity. Like it or not it seems to be the future. Yes, requiring multiple devices is silly. But so far there have been no requirements (e.g. EA's rather crummy integration with the Mass Effect apps is a good indication of where this is going...hopefully they do a better job in the future).

dokujaryu
Jun 4, 2012, 03:24 PM
It's the iPads, iPhone 4S, and Mountian Lion (OSX).

That would explain it. I don't have a 4S yet. But, I do have the internet, which means I should have known. :-P

http://www.apple.com/ipad/features/airplay/

AirPlay Mirroring is available with iPad 2 or later and iPhone 4S.

marcusj0015
Jun 4, 2012, 03:30 PM
Guess you didn't read. This feature is also for iOS.

w00master

Ok, but it still requires an Xbox.

tripjammer
Jun 4, 2012, 03:32 PM
Nice...makes me wonder WTF Sony has been doing for the last 5 years with the PS3.

PS3 is so far behind 360 at this point.


Actually no. Sony press conference is later tonight. We will see what they have to offer. Microsoft just announced SmartGlass. Its not coming out till this fall. Sony might show something similar. Heck they might show a PS4.

You do know the Xbox 360 is still rolling on old tech. Still using DVD as the medium. They should have just broken down and showed the Xbox 720. Its time for a new system.

SmartGlass is just going to force Apple to innovate and make Airplay really open source and open to all platforms.

needfx
Jun 4, 2012, 03:35 PM
has anyone noticed the voice command nature they are portraying in this promo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7y_sXD165w&feature=player_embedded

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 03:38 PM
Actually no. Sony press conference is later tonight. We will see what they have to offer. Microsoft just announced SmartGlass. Its not coming out till this fall. Sony might show something similar. Heck they might show a PS4.

You do know the Xbox 360 is still rolling on old tech. Still using DVD as the medium. They should have just broken down and showed the Xbox 720. Its time for a new system.

SmartGlass is just going to force Apple to innovate and make Airplay really open source and open to all platforms.

I thought it was confirmed that the PS4 will still use optical media.

Sacird
Jun 4, 2012, 03:44 PM
The best part of this thread has to be that most at Macrumors seem on the pro side of MS. At the MS centric site I visit, most are anti everything MS after their E3 today. It's bizarro world. Never take forums seriously at all I guess.

EDIT: Its pretty vicious bad mouthing over there I might add, like pure hatred.

Illusion986
Jun 4, 2012, 03:45 PM
This is quite interesting news. Im glad to see that Microsoft and Apple are not trying to cut each others throats. I doubt that i will use this feature with xbox but still its nice that Microsoft will make this feature work across many platforms. Makes my 360 seem not as obsolete as i thought it will become :)

aikomhoch
Jun 4, 2012, 03:45 PM
Are they actually able to mirror HBO GO? We can't do that from iPad to AppleTV. :mad:

ablashek
Jun 4, 2012, 03:46 PM
So this really gives truth to the idea that Apple paves the way, everybody else follows.

Whats so diff about this, compared to Apple TV (introduced over 3 years ago), plus Remote App on iOS (introduced over 3 years ago), and all this working with your iphone + ipad (all introduced over 3 years ago)?!?

Same damn thing!

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 03:46 PM
The best part of this thread has to be that most at Macrumors seem on the pro side of MS. At the MS centric site I visit, most are anti everything MS after their E3 today. It's bizarro world. Never take forums seriously at all I guess, its a wacky world.

I think this says it best.

Which is good, right? Because it turns out it really was the Windows interface we didn’t like. We’re not just irrational Microsoft haters under the thrall of Cupertino’s Reality Distortion Field. Man, that’s a load off us, isn’t it?

http://www.macworld.com/article/1166578/coming_attractions_windows_8.html

cadillac1234
Jun 4, 2012, 04:01 PM
God, WHAT is wrong with physical controllers!? I assume you'd prefer everything to function like Kinect? Where you just hope the device you're trying to interact with can somehow interpret whatever vague gestures you make?

When did we get so lazy that we decided using a peripheral as well-designed as a wireless xbox 360 is somehow "inconvenient"?

Obviously you aren't married or have a spouse that doesn't mind have a giant white controller sitting on the coffee room table.

Also, try to get your mom, dad, wife, babysitter, house guest, etc to navigate a XBOX menu system if they haven't ever used it.

mandis
Jun 4, 2012, 04:15 PM
Daenerys Stormborn of the house Targaryen :cool:

chukronos
Jun 4, 2012, 04:16 PM
Are they actually able to mirror HBO GO? We can't do that from iPad to AppleTV. :mad:

The Xbox already has an HBO GO app. Makes it great to watch every season of Game of Thrones on your tv.

whiteboytrash
Jun 4, 2012, 04:18 PM
has anyone noticed the voice command nature they are portraying in this promo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7y_sXD165w&feature=player_embedded

What’s always astounded me about Microsoft promo videos is they always look great. It’s when you read the fine print you discover the concept/software/device doesn’t actually work as first thought. This will be no different. It’s also at “concept” stage not actual delivery – ie its not shipping. If Apple TV / IPhone 5 are announced they will 1-2 weeks after the keynote. This is typical of Microsoft. Big on the bells and whistles small on substance.

chukronos
Jun 4, 2012, 04:18 PM
Ok, but it still requires an Xbox.

Umm... You think that's because it is an Xbox feature? Kinda hard to use a feature for the Xbox without an Xbox.

joekun
Jun 4, 2012, 04:21 PM
The XBox would make a great connected device if you didn't have to pay for xbox live to get anything at all. I already get ESPN 3, but I have to pay for XBox Live Gold to watch it through my XBox? Forget it. Same with pretty much all of their other offerings, netflix being another notable example. That's why my 360 collects dust. They don't even allow you the privilege of buying downloadable games unless you cough up a subscription fee.

Oletros
Jun 4, 2012, 04:21 PM
What’s always astounded me about Microsoft promo videos is they always look great. It’s when you read the fine print you discover the concept/software/device doesn’t actually work as first thought. This will be no different. It’s also at “concept” stage not actual delivery – ie its not shipping. If Apple TV / IPhone 5 are announced they will 1-2 weeks after the keynote. This is typical of Microsoft. Big on the bells and whistles small on substance.

Are you saying that voice commands doesn't work on Xbox?

Renzatic
Jun 4, 2012, 04:24 PM
Also, try to get your mom, dad, wife, babysitter, house guest, etc to navigate a XBOX menu system if they haven't ever used it.

Exactly. An OS should be simple to use, easy to understand, and capable enough that even the most tech illiterate can become a near power user within two minutes of picking up the device. Apple succeeds in this regard with OSX and iOS, whereas MS continuously fails. Metro tiles are a convoluted schizophrenic mess of psychedelic smeary colors. It's stupid and dumb.

Case in point. I tell my Grandma to find the icon that gets you on internet...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/Lion.jpg

...it only took her two days to figure out it was the compass! Get it? A compass? As in it's the program you "navigate" the internet with? Simple and elegant! See? Even the dumbest of idiots can use it!

But Metro? Yeah, like anyone could figure out the giant picture with all the movie posters that has the word "movies" displayed prominently over it in huge block font would actually lead them to the section of the marketplace where you rent movies. This is what happens when MS doesn't have Apple to copy. They fail.

Metro is horrible.

whiteboytrash
Jun 4, 2012, 04:25 PM
Are you saying that voice commands doesn't work on Xbox?

How did you deduce that from my post? What are you talking about.

The promo video is pure concept. The concepts shown are not shipping and will not be shipping for the foreseeable future.

To spin it any other way is purely obfuscation. I’d prefer if you thoughtfully discussed my post.

I repeat this “concept” is not shipping in the near future. It’s just a concept ala the “Courier concept” prior to iPad.

Renzatic
Jun 4, 2012, 04:30 PM
I repeat this “concept” is not shipping in the near future. It’s just a concept ala the “Courier concept” prior to iPad.

It's not a proof of concept, genius. It's a live demo of what they'll be releasing 4-5 months from now. The courier on the other hand was never anything more than a concept. It was never demoed. No one ever played with a prototype. They didn't even bring it up in a keynote speech, as far as I know. It was quietly announced as something a small team within MS was banging out behind the scenes, and quietly killed when Bill Gates learned it wasn't capable of reading email or installing apps.

i-John
Jun 4, 2012, 04:31 PM
In this news front, if it's another AirPlay copy...forget it.
You can try and forget it, but it's an "AirPlay copy" that has a built in user-base of nearly 70 million. Place that against AppleTV (which is required to stream to a TV) with a couple of million sales per year? I think it would be something to worry about.

Oletros
Jun 4, 2012, 04:33 PM
How did you deduce that from my post? What are you talking about.

The promo video is pure concept. The concepts shown are not shipping and will not be shipping for the foreseeable future.

To spin it any other way is purely obfuscation. I’d prefer if you thoughtfully discussed my post.

I repeat this “concept” is not shipping in the near future. It’s just a concept ala the “Courier concept” prior to iPad.

What concept? Almost all of what it is shown works NOW in the Xbox.

Do you have used an Xbox?

damnhandy
Jun 4, 2012, 04:33 PM
The XBox 360 shows what the PPC was good for.

*sigh*

The XBox 360 uses an Intel CPU. You're thinking of the PS3 which does use a PPC.

whiteboytrash
Jun 4, 2012, 04:34 PM
It's not a proof of concept, genius. It's a live demo of what they'll be releasing 4-5 months from now. The courier on the other hand was never anything more than a concept. It was never demoed. No one ever played with a prototype. They didn't even bring it up in a keynote speech, as far as I know. It was quietly announced as something a small team within MS was banging out behind the scenes, and quietly killed when Bill Gates learned it wasn't capable of reading email or installing apps.


It shows you don’t read. I was responding to the youtube video displaying the “concept” not the live presentation. I assume you have a link or a youtube of this presentation to substantiate the claim that they demonstrated the product “live”?

and

due in 4-5 months time? Got a link for that claim also?


Next question; long is a piece of string?

FoxMcCloud
Jun 4, 2012, 04:36 PM
The XBox 360 uses an Intel CPU. You're thinking of the PS3 which does use a PPC.

Sorry bro, Xbox is PPC. Moreso than the PS3.

Oletros
Jun 4, 2012, 04:37 PM
The XBox 360 uses an Intel CPU. You're thinking of the PS3 which does use a PPC.

No, the Xbox 360 has an IBM PPC processor

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 04:38 PM
Sorry bro, Xbox is PPC. Moreso than the PS3.

Yup, the Xbox is basically a G5 (not really but lets be fast and loose). The PS3 is a cell processor (which they hyped up so much only for it to fail so much they will never mention the processor again...remember when everyone was all like "Apple is going to switch to Cell" only for them to switch to Intel...that was a weird time).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360

Edit: I think the confusion might be due to the code name, "Xenon" which is close to the Intel chip name "Xeon"

URFloorMatt
Jun 4, 2012, 04:38 PM
The presentation was interesting. Microsoft does not intend to be caught flat footed by the Apple TV. Nearly all of the big features they've announced over the last two years have been TV-oriented -- voice command, search integration, content partnerships, and now wireless streaming via Smart Glass, a music service in Xbox Music, and we can assume easy integration with Windows 8.

What amazes me is how Google has apparently given up entirely on the living room when they were an early pioneer with the Google TV. I have to wonder if one day they won't end up buying Sony, Nintendo, or both. I don't think either of those companies have the resources to keep up with the innovation and ecosystems that Apple and MS are developing, but they certainly have technology and IPs that would help Google catch up and become a major player.

Where did all their first party studios go? They showed Halo 4 and that was it AFAIK (I couldn't watch the whole thing). Showing a bunch of multiplatforms never fooled anybody.Say what? All the biggest titles are multi-platform. Sony set the standard years ago when they let titles like GTA, Tomb Raider, and Resident Evil go. Development is too expensive to justify exclusivity, and exclusivity is bad policy from a money-making perspective. What MS and Sony do now is what you saw today: MS has first dibs on exclusive content for all the biggest titles--Tomb Raider, RE6, COD. And they still have their IPs. They showed new Halo, new Forza, new Gears, several XBLA exclusive titles, and lots of Kinect integration.

Renzatic
Jun 4, 2012, 04:39 PM
It shows you don’t read. I was responding to the youtube video displaying the “concept” not the live presentation. I assume you have a link or a youtube of this presentation to substantiate the claim that they demonstrated the product “live”?

and

due in 4-5 months time? Got a link for that claim also?


Next question; long is a piece of string?

I bet you were one of those people screaming "more MS vaporware" when they demoed Windows 8 on an ARM tablet 7 months ago.

Oletros
Jun 4, 2012, 04:40 PM
It shows you don’t read. I was responding to the youtube video displaying the “concept” not the live presentation. I assume you have a link or a youtube of this presentation to substantiate the claim that they demonstrated the product “live”?

and

due in 4-5 months time? Got a link for that claim also?


Next question; long is a piece of string?

It is not a concept.

And I repeat, are you claiming that Xbox 360 doesn't have voice controls like the shown in the video?

Ah, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYvQu00t75w

Mad-B-One
Jun 4, 2012, 04:47 PM
On another note, Microsoft, please do the whole world a favor and stop developing Internet Explorer! Everyone wins: Developers can finally build websites that work the way they should, users get to experience the web the way it was intended, and Microsoft can fire all the idiots who develop Internet Explorer, and save huge amounts of money! The only reason anyone uses that idiotic browser is because they're too damn stupid to download another one, and Microsoft knows that very well…

The only positive thing I can think of about Internet Explorer is that one day, when it will cease to exist, the world will become a better place, all of a sudden.

Well, on the other side, it runs in 64Bit - and that is available for Chrome and Firefox as well - Firefox' older versions that is. Keep in mind you have to install "Square" instead of "Flash" when you do that to see the still-existing Flash content. On the other had, I agree with you. Web pages are either running well on IE or on other browsers because MS is not complying strictly with HTML(5) and XML while others do. The work-arounds for IE on the other hand are not working with the other browsers. It's a nightmare. I once needed to open a certain page and fill in a form for a job and it took me two hours to find out while the Firefox and Chrome got stuck in the process: It was "optimized" for IE!

FoxMcCloud
Jun 4, 2012, 04:51 PM
To be fare, MS has come along way with IE and it is very much so standards compliant and modern.
IE6 lets face it is 10 years old. Its not Microsofts fault people still use it. You try and use Chrome or Safari or Firefox from 2001 and theyll be as equally dreadful. At least they would be, if they existed.

Be thankful its likely to be Metro IE10 on the Xbox. The web will run great.

Krevnik
Jun 4, 2012, 04:52 PM
Yup, the Xbox is basically a G5 (not really but lets be fast and loose). The PS3 is a cell processor (which they hyped up so much only for it to fail so much they will never mention the processor again).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360

Edit: I think the confusion might be due to the code name, "Xenon" which is close to the Intel chip name "Xeon"

The Cell uses the same PPC core (or one very similar) that the 360's processor uses. The difference is the parallel processing options on the two. Microsoft, quite smartly, banked on the idea that developers just want more cores that they can shunt code onto. Sony / Toshiba banked on the idea of what amounts to programmable pipelines like you find in current generation GPUs.

The problem I think is more the developers than anything else (speaking as one). Retooling for programmable pipelines is a lot more work. I need to learn a new language, what the limitations of the pipelines are, etc. But throw in a couple more cores? Yeah, I can start running code on them in under a day. And I have more flexibility to do things like AI in parallel and so on. But in a way, it does make sense that generic programmable pipelines should be on the CPU die rather than the GPU die for speed reasons. But I think the reality is that many customers want them as discrete components... and that good CPU makers don't always make GPUs and vice versa.

MOFS
Jun 4, 2012, 04:56 PM
The difference, as always, is that Apple requires you to completely lock yourself into their walled garden while others offer options to integrate third party products.

What still blows my mind is this "the AppleTV is just a hobby" bollocks. They charge 129 bucks for that "hobby" product and tell you straight in your face that since it's just a hobby you better don't expect anything for your money. I'm not sure if whether this says something about Apple or if it says something about their average customers.

This requires an XBox to run, so while it can be any phone/tablet you still need it to stream. You could also stream from any computer without iTunes to an AppleTV as long it is Airplay compatible and on the same network(which sites such as Youtube and Vevo are).

On topic, this does look a lot like Airplay. I bought Real Racing 2 for my iPad specifically for it's ability to stream the picture via my AppleTV and have the map of the course in front of me. It's pretty cool.

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 04:57 PM
The Cell uses the same PPC core (or one very similar) that the 360's processor uses. The difference is the parallel processing options on the two. Microsoft, quite smartly, banked on the idea that developers just want more cores that they can shunt code onto. Sony / Toshiba banked on the idea of what amounts to programmable pipelines like you find in current generation GPUs

Yup. I was being a bit fast with everything because the main point was that someone thought the Xbox 360 used x86 instead of PPC. I was sniping a bit at cell but that was mostly because I remember the Macrumors forums way back when treating cell like a panacea. They're definitely useful, just not what people were looking for at the time.

The problem I think is more the developers than anything else (speaking as one). Retooling for programmable pipelines is a lot more work. I need to learn a new language, what the limitations of the pipelines are, etc. But throw in a couple more cores? Yeah, I can start running code on them in under a day. And I have more flexibility to do things like AI in parallel and so on. But in a way, it does make sense that generic programmable pipelines should be on the CPU die rather than the GPU die for speed reasons. But I think the reality is that many customers want them as discrete components... and that good CPU makers don't always make GPUs and vice versa.

Wasn't that why all the GPU makers got bought out a while ago?

apollo1444
Jun 4, 2012, 05:00 PM
lol at the people minimizing Microsoft at this, Apple TV is garbage next to what the Xbox offers

FoxMcCloud
Jun 4, 2012, 05:06 PM
AirPlay wasnt exactly new technology either,Apple just managed to commercialise it. Windows 7 had DLNA built in. You can right click on a video file and Play To any DLNA compliant device (for which there are many available). Used to do it loads way back when, till I stopped using a laptop to watch stuff. Prefer pulling rather than pushing.

AustinIllini
Jun 4, 2012, 05:08 PM
AirPlay wasnt exactly new technology either,Apple just managed to commercialise it. Windows 7 had DLNA built in. You can right click on a video file and Play To any DLNA compliant device (for which there are many available). Used to do it loads way back when, till I stopped using a laptop to watch stuff. Prefer pulling rather than pushing.

Apple also made it extremely simple. Clicking a button just made the AppleTV show the video, there wasn't much more to it. Using Vuze in the past was just a pain with my Playstation 3

koshper
Jun 4, 2012, 05:09 PM
My first post.. all i'd like to say is.. wait for it.. wait for it.

stay glassy microsoft! :D

Good work! Love that movie. Can't believe people marked it down! It appears not all of us frequent this website with a smile . . . .

derbladerunner
Jun 4, 2012, 05:10 PM
lol at the people minimizing Microsoft at this, Apple TV is garbage next to what the Xbox offers

Exactly. Anyone who compares Airplay capabilities to SmartGlass hasn't see the Xbox presentation today.

SmartGlass is about turning the second screen concept into reality:

http://www.quora.com/Second-Screen-Experience

http://gizmodo.com/smart-glass/

Airplay only is streaming/viewing content wirelessly (at the moment), much like the DNLA standard.

PS: I'm not a fan of MS products, but what they achieved with XBox + Kinect/voice + Smartglass is way ahead of Apple's TV living room experience - for now. Let's wait and see what Apple comes up with at WWDC next week.

thejadedmonkey
Jun 4, 2012, 05:14 PM
has anyone noticed the voice command nature they are portraying in this promo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7y_sXD165w&feature=player_embedded

Yes? I mean, that's just Kinect. If I were in the other room with my 360 on, I could watch Jackie Chan Adventures on Netflix without ever touching a remote.

milo
Jun 4, 2012, 05:22 PM
The XBox 360 shows what the PPC was good for.

We've always known what PPC was good for. The problem with it wasn't that it wasn't powerful, it was that it used too much power and ran too hot to put in laptops.

Radio
Jun 4, 2012, 05:25 PM
The page has been deviating from Apple-related articles for awhile.

In this news front, if it's another AirPlay copy...forget it.

U mean that's bad we don't need to buy an apple tv?! Oh the horror!

Krevnik
Jun 4, 2012, 05:27 PM
Yup. I was being a bit fast with everything because the main point was that someone thought the Xbox 360 used x86 instead of PPC. I was sniping a bit at cell but that was mostly because I remember the Macrumors forums way back when treating cell like a panacea. They're definitely useful, just not what people were looking for at the time.

Well, I think that the dynamic changed a lot when GPU makers started providing generic tools. Even Apple who was behind quite a bit managed to get CoreCL out the door ~3 years ago.


Wasn't that why all the GPU makers got bought out a while ago?

The only company that can make 'current generation desktop-class' CPUs and GPUs is AMD. Intel is usually a couple generations behind on their GPU tech, and NVidia doesn't have any desktop CPU experience. NVidia's track record on portable SOCs says they care more about specific high-performance platforms.

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 05:28 PM
We've always known what PPC was good for. The problem with it wasn't that it wasn't powerful, it was that it used too much power and ran too hot to put in laptops.

That and IBM was favoring Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo over Apple. Intel actually bent over backwards to land Apple (giving them new chips first/pretty far in advance). It was a combination of the PPC not being great at mobile and the AIM alliance finally completely falling apart. If it was just about mobile Apple wouldn't be using ARM for their iOS devices.

Well, I think that the dynamic changed a lot when GPU makers started providing generic tools. Even Apple who was behind quite a bit managed to get CoreCL out the door ~3 years ago.

[...]

The only company that can make 'current generation desktop-class' CPUs and GPUs is AMD. Intel is usually a couple generations behind on their GPU tech, and NVidia doesn't have any desktop CPU experience. NVidia's track record on portable SOCs says they care more about specific high-performance platforms.

Eh, my crummy memory thought Intel bought someone to make their GPUs slightly less bad.

Speaking of Apple, is there any word if they're giving OpenGL more attention in 10.8?

bwillwall
Jun 4, 2012, 06:06 PM
This looks really cool, there should have been a browser on the 360 when it was released. Thought it would never happen. I wonder if I can browse with kinect? As far as the SmartGlass thing goes, it looks like Microsoft is showing Nintendo the middle finger for their ****** Wii U. At least this doesn't MAKE anyone look at 2 screens at a time. And the fact that you can show media from an iOS device on your tv is cool, I hope its for iPhone and not just iPad :cool:

res08hao
Jun 4, 2012, 06:09 PM
Microsoft might as well move to Korea. They just copy, also.

Snowshiro
Jun 4, 2012, 06:24 PM
Microsoft is definitely pushing the cord cutting options.
The XBox viewing options are very extensive HULU, ESPN3, Netflix, Pandora, Amazon

If you live in the United States. For every other country in the world it will probably suck.

faroZ06
Jun 4, 2012, 06:24 PM
Will SmartGlass be available on Windows Phone? (This is a serious question.)

twoodcc
Jun 4, 2012, 06:24 PM
i must admit, this sounds really good. i may end up getting a newer xbox 360 this year. i'm very surprised to see Nike+ teaming up with microsoft. i don't think Steve Jobs would have liked this

faroZ06
Jun 4, 2012, 06:26 PM
Microsoft might as well move to Korea. They just copy, also.

Copy, buy, and lie. I think the best thing they make currently (they've made some nice Excel versions in the past) is the XBOX 360.

It's a nice console with a very good controller and lots of features, although it is very unreliable. Also, I want to break the center button on the controller when I accidentally press it mid-game. Still, Microsoft does some innovation on the XBOX, unlike their other stuff. All it needs is bug fixes.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 4, 2012, 06:39 PM
Microsoft, always one step behind the Apple. But it's great, I'm happy for PC users to have the same options as Mac users. I'm glad that wireless display technologies are finally here!

I remember trying out first wireless display dongles back in 2006, horrible. ATV and similar solutions are so much easier to work with.

These things will really change TV industry with lots of people canceling their cable TVs, seems like only few TV stations are catching up on trend (HBO). Hopefully it won't end up like music industry in early 00s.

Sorry but it has more been that Apple has been several miles behind. MS really has been leading the charge of linking the tv to the computer. Microsoft saw what xbox modders did and put a lot of those features in the 360. They have been adding to it.

Just what you said really shows how bad your Apple blinders are. Apple has sucked in that department for a long time and in many ways still lags behind

aikomhoch
Jun 4, 2012, 06:44 PM
The Xbox already has an HBO GO app. Makes it great to watch every season of Game of Thrones on your tv.

Oh, right, forgot that. Come on Apple! Anyone know if AirParrot supports audio yet?

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 06:55 PM
Sorry but it has more been that Apple has been several miles behind. MS really has been leading the charge of linking the tv to the computer. Microsoft saw what xbox modders did and put a lot of those features in the 360. They have been adding to it.

Just what you said really shows how bad your Apple blinders are. Apple has sucked in that department for a long time and in many ways still lags behind

Only real problem I've had is that the Xbox interface made using a lot of those features more difficult than it should have been until recently. They're doing a lot better with the UI these days, though.

I think what this argument boils down to is that Microsoft is catching up with the UI (and hopefully Apple catches up with some features).

Rodimus Prime
Jun 4, 2012, 07:02 PM
Only real problem I've had is that the Xbox interface made using a lot of those features more difficult than it should have been until recently. They're doing a lot better with the UI these days, though.

I think what this argument boils down to is that Microsoft is catching up with the UI (and hopefully Apple catches up with some features).

Yeah the UI has had some pretty big improvements in the past few years. I saw the biggest improvement was when they switch off the blade set up to what they use now but that was like 3-4 years ago now.
The windows Medai extender has been in there for a long time. Vista played really well with it and 7 even better.
Add in all the streaming services yeah Apple has a LONG ways to go.

Lets see the 360 plays more media file types. Works with more devices and more streaming servers. The only thing the Apple TV has over is playing files from iTunes. Other wise the Apple TV has pretty much nothing.

i-John
Jun 4, 2012, 07:39 PM
Sorry but it has more been that Apple has been several miles behind. MS really has been leading the charge of linking the tv to the computer. Microsoft saw what xbox modders did and put a lot of those features in the 360. They have been adding to it.

Just what you said really shows how bad your Apple blinders are. Apple has sucked in that department for a long time and in many ways still lags behind

Agreed. I believe they will still lag behind until they open it up to all users, not just Apple users.

----------

You do know the Xbox 360 is still rolling on old tech. Still using DVD as the medium. They should have just broken down and showed the Xbox 720. Its time for a new system.

DVD is the perfect medium for games. The biggest complaint I've heard from my PS3 friends is that Blu-Ray drives are just too slow loading games.
Microsoft are moving towards games in the cloud, download only... large games, no lag since they are on your HD. That's the future, Blu-Ray for games was DOA since it's too slow for the gaming world.

You must be reading news from a different world than most people. Why do they need to rush out a new system when the XBOX is outselling everything in sight right now? There needs to be a major jump in game technology for the next level of system. The current systems are comfortably able to handle any of the latest games.

SeattleMoose
Jun 4, 2012, 07:39 PM
But MS actually has a good idea here!!!

Now off to the bathroom to wash the hands that typed this....

Sensation
Jun 4, 2012, 07:42 PM
Microsoft is definitely pushing the cord cutting options.
The XBox viewing options are very extensive HULU, ESPN3, Netflix, Pandora, Amazon

Problem is the Xbox360 itself... great for playing games, not so much fun navigating TV menus with a huge controller.

Ive never found browsing it with the controller a problem, there are search functions which work very well. Plus we are forgetting Kinect can control everything, I imagine Apple will copy a lot of this for their tv.

Mackan
Jun 4, 2012, 07:51 PM
Nice...makes me wonder WTF Sony has been doing for the last 5 years with the PS3.

PS3 is so far behind 360 at this point.

I wonder what both Sony and Microsoft has been doing the last decade. So passive, so many missed opportunities.

Sensation
Jun 4, 2012, 07:53 PM
If you live in the United States. For every other country in the world it will probably suck.

Actually in the UK its very good, We get SKY, BBC, Lovefilme, 4oD, ItvPlayer and several more but ive not tried. :cool:

----------

Microsoft might as well move to Korea. They just copy, also.

How is there anything like this out on the market today?

Perrumpo
Jun 4, 2012, 07:56 PM
And let me guess: it will all require an xBox Live Gold subscription.

Pass.

i-John
Jun 4, 2012, 07:59 PM
To be fare, MS has come along way with IE and it is very much so standards compliant and modern.
IE6 lets face it is 10 years old. Its not Microsofts fault people still use it. You try and use Chrome or Safari or Firefox from 2001 and theyll be as equally dreadful. At least they would be, if they existed.

Be thankful its likely to be Metro IE10 on the Xbox. The web will run great.

If you use Firefox NOW it's dreadful. Can't stand it and it keeps getting worse with every version.

faroZ06
Jun 4, 2012, 08:03 PM
Well studies on usage from Microsoft have shown that 50% of consoles are used for purposes other than gaming, particularly streaming media.

That's what always annoyed me. The Gamecube lost to the PS2 and XBOX because it didn't play DVDs and stuff even though it had amazing games (Paper Mario for Gamecube was the best singleplayer game ever). I tried playing a DVD on my XBOX, and it said that I needed to purchase a separate remote control to do that...

----------

If you use Firefox NOW it's dreadful. Can't stand it and it keeps getting worse with every version.

Yeah, it's almost as bad as IE at this point. It's become very naggy and slow. I actually like IE more than Firefox except that a lot of websites don't work in IE because Microsoft has no regard for web standards. Instead, they try to shove ActiveX junk down our throats.

----------

And let me guess: it will all require an xBox Live Gold subscription.

Pass.

Haha so true. My friend's XBOX 360 required an XBOX Live account to play the full version of Marble Blast that came with it, which isn't even an online game. When you play online games on the XBOX 360, is it even hosted by MS or peer-to-peer?

Perrumpo
Jun 4, 2012, 08:12 PM
Haha so true. My friend's XBOX 360 required an XBOX Live account to play the full version of Marble Blast that came with it, which isn't even an online game. When you play online games on the XBOX 360, is it even hosted by MS or peer-to-peer?

Don't know. I've yet to purchase a subscription since the PS3 is my main console. But I think it's ridiculous to require a subscription just to use HBO Go and other apps on xBox.

thisrocks
Jun 4, 2012, 08:24 PM
Actually, $99.
Actually, $109 - Apple AU Store (http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/apple_tv)

It was $129 here IFIRC, but dropped a little with the release of the 3. I never had any interest up until 1080p. Content aside, my screen resolution was >720p!

faroZ06
Jun 4, 2012, 08:26 PM
Don't know. I've yet to purchase a subscription since the PS3 is my main console. But I think it's ridiculous to require a subscription just to use HBO Go and other apps on xBox.

I just stick with the Gamecube and watch movies on my FiOS box.

I have an XBOX 360 without any controllers or a hard drive, and it works 1/20 times I turn it on. That's why it was free. I also have an XBOX, but I don't play it much (my brother does).

ShiftyPig
Jun 4, 2012, 08:31 PM
i must admit, this sounds really good. i may end up getting a newer xbox 360 this year. i'm very surprised to see Nike+ teaming up with microsoft. i don't think Steve Jobs would have liked this

Since all competitors are supposed to bow to a human that isn't even alive anymore?

scoobydoo99
Jun 4, 2012, 08:51 PM
Agreed. I believe they will still lag behind until they open it up to all users, not just Apple users.

Not sure what that means...if you buy an Apple TV, you ARE an Apple user.

DVD is the perfect medium for games....

Yeah, right. I suppose if you like games on multiple discs that you have to switch mid-game, then DVD is PERFECT :rolleyes:

...., Blu-Ray for games was DOA since it's too slow for the gaming world.

There is a whole world of PS3 games that run great on Blu-Ray. And they come on single discs.

There needs to be a major jump in game technology for the next level of system. The current systems are comfortably able to handle any of the latest games.

Um. A bit of a circular argument, eh? The "latest games" are coded for the current systems! Thats why the current systems can comfortably handle them. LOL. There are tons of improvements that could be made to games if the hardware were upgraded.

Jovian9
Jun 4, 2012, 09:03 PM
This whole conceit about whether a certain story is WORTHY of the high honor or making the front page of Macrumors seems asinine to me.

It's just Macrumors, after all ... not the NYT.

There's a lot of you who have an opinion about whether 'this' or 'that' story is worthy of being on Macrumors front page. In fact, it seems almost every story these days someone pipes in with 'should this really be a front page story?'.

I agree. I don't post or read here as much as I used to but I see these comments regularly on the threads I do visit....

jaw04005
Jun 4, 2012, 09:05 PM
Paul Thurrott posted a new article about SmartGlass. Apparently, it's an updated version of the Companion.app already out for iOS, Android and Windows 8.

The second screen stuff only works with new games that take advantage of that developer API (although I expect Microsoft will update some of their first party titles)

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/xbox-360/xbox-360-xbox-smartglass-preview-143334

faroZ06
Jun 4, 2012, 09:09 PM
Yeah, right. I suppose if you like games on multiple discs that you have to switch mid-game, then DVD is PERFECT :rolleyes:


What game uses multiple discs? A DVD holds 4.7GB, which is plenty. The Gamecube uses miniature discs and has poor graphics (compared to new games) but the best games :)

If anything, we need a console that takes the games from the internet or from installation disc(s) and stores them. Playing a game off of optical media seems a bit slow for newer games that have extremely detailed graphics.

NAG
Jun 4, 2012, 09:10 PM
Yeah the UI has had some pretty big improvements in the past few years. I saw the biggest improvement was when they switch off the blade set up to what they use now but that was like 3-4 years ago now.
The windows Medai extender has been in there for a long time. Vista played really well with it and 7 even better.
Add in all the streaming services yeah Apple has a LONG ways to go.

Lets see the 360 plays more media file types. Works with more devices and more streaming servers. The only thing the Apple TV has over is playing files from iTunes. Other wise the Apple TV has pretty much nothing.

Eh, the interface before last was pretty bad too (looked like coverflow). It hid so much information and was very easy to get lost in. They finally decided to stop obscuring the navigation with the more Metro look. As far as services, I think Apple is playing a different game. The Xbox is very PC centric. I think Apple is trying to move away from that but they have no clue how. As we know about Apple, they try not to do anything until they have a reasonable idea how to do it (e.g. cut and paste on iOS).

I think Airplay was an attempt but ultimately will not be a killer feature for them. Ultimately, what Microsoft showed off today was in the same category as Airplay but with more features (who knows about UX until we actually get to use it). So yeah, not sure if what they showed today is anywhere Apple is going.

(and before anyone jumps on me, no I'm not implying Microsoft copied Airplay)

What game uses multiple discs? A DVD holds 4.7GB, which is plenty.

Mass Effect 2 and 3.

designgeek
Jun 4, 2012, 09:23 PM
Why do I feel like Microsoft will execute this similar to the HDDVD thing? With loads of unnecessary information and crap and such.

lifeguard90
Jun 4, 2012, 09:24 PM
screw Microsoft , notice how Mac news has trickled out today and MR has not posted. I'm sticking with 9to5 from now on, maybe AppleInsider. I do like MR is because of the buyers guide and helpful forums, but they seem to be third out of the ones i mentioned in regards to timely reporting and frequency at pm hours and weekends.

how would you rate the different mac rumor sites, which do you like

Jovian9
Jun 4, 2012, 09:26 PM
The example with Madden is pretty awesome.

I'd love to be able to choose a play without a friend seeing my three choices.

Plus, you could choose a play while the game is showing a replay, this speeding up the entire experience.

I'd love to see this come to fruition with Madden and NCAA football games in the future.

Yeah. This is what the DreamCast used to let you do. Surprised it's taken this long for someone else to integrate it in some way.

kiljoy616
Jun 4, 2012, 09:31 PM
The page has been deviating from Apple-related articles for awhile.

In this news front, if it's another AirPlay copy...forget it.

Maybe the reason the news has been deviating is that Apple cool tech has not really been coming out. Either way this is big for iOS users after all we are moving in a different directions and MacRumors is in the business of staying in business. ;)

budselectjr
Jun 4, 2012, 09:35 PM
What game uses multiple discs? A DVD holds 4.7GB, which is plenty. The Gamecube uses miniature discs and has poor graphics (compared to new games) but the best games :)


La noire, Max Payne 3, Battlefield 3 off the top of my head. Should I continue?

kiljoy616
Jun 4, 2012, 09:37 PM
Nice...makes me wonder WTF Sony has been doing for the last 5 years with the PS3.

PS3 is so far behind 360 at this point.

You really can't blame them, unlike Microsoft which is a software juggernaut and has the resources Sony is not that kind of company. If your asking what have they been spending money on, well how about technology that you use but never see.

Here is what Sony is up to http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201205/12-076E/index.html
Cool for those who just have to have eye candy galore. :rolleyes:

Your right in that Sony needs to start to change what it thinks it is or like RIM may find them selves out of business or at least just becoming a FAB house for others.

nokuchikushi
Jun 4, 2012, 09:40 PM
Just like "Smart" playlists?

:rolleyes:

w00master

Smart playlists are not products. :rolleyes:

pdjudd
Jun 4, 2012, 09:41 PM
What game uses multiple discs? A DVD holds 4.7GB, which is plenty. The Gamecube uses miniature discs and has poor graphics (compared to new games) but the best games :)

DVD’s on the Xbox actually can be as big as 8.5 for dual layer - thats been supported since the days of the PS2. Furthermore there are several games that require multiple discs - LA Noire is one of them - it has 3 discs.

If anything, we need a console that takes the games from the internet or from installation disc(s) and stores them. Playing a game off of optical media seems a bit slow for newer games that have extremely detailed graphics.
You can actually install games on the XBox 360 and the PS3 - it is targeted to reduce wear and tear on the DVD tray and doesn’t really increase performance or anything - they are already optimally designed for the consoles hardware. Trouble is, these games are huge - PS3 uses games on BlueRay which can go up to 50 gigabytes. Broadband just isn’t reliable or available enough to deliver those sizes. Not to mention when you have ISP’s that are doing all they can to restrict bandwidth availability.

Right now you have to have discs anyway, and really the most you have to worry about is load time, something that isn’t as big of a deal nowadays - developers try to make the most out of load times to work the story or gameplay around it. You don’t really need installers though - it’s not all that optimal for consoles where drives are not large.

lifeguard90
Jun 4, 2012, 09:46 PM
screw Microsoft , notice how Mac news has trickled out today and MR has not posted. I'm sticking with 9to5 from now on, maybe AppleInsider. I do like MR is because of the buyers guide and helpful forums, but they seem to be third out of the ones i mentioned in regards to timely reporting and frequency at pm hours and weekends.

how would you rate the different mac rumor sites, which do you like

Why downvote, its true fact thats all.

JAT
Jun 4, 2012, 09:49 PM
except apple's version will only work on Mac's and iOS. MS is smart to appeal to the entire market

and they are pulling a nice Siri on google with this

The entire Xbox market. Much different than the horrible proprietary Apple.

Much.

faroZ06
Jun 4, 2012, 10:18 PM
La noire, Max Payne 3, Battlefield 3 off the top of my head. Should I continue?

Um... those games suck.

----------

screw Microsoft , notice how Mac news has trickled out today and MR has not posted. I'm sticking with 9to5 from now on, maybe AppleInsider. I do like MR is because of the buyers guide and helpful forums, but they seem to be third out of the ones i mentioned in regards to timely reporting and frequency at pm hours and weekends.

how would you rate the different mac rumor sites, which do you like

I know you hate Microsoft (I do too), but I don't see what's so bad about an article about one of Apple's competitors and one of Apple's devices. Besides, MacRumors isn't exactly "spamming" my RSS feed. We can do with a few extra articles.

lifeguard90
Jun 4, 2012, 10:19 PM
Um... those games suck.

----------



I know you hate Microsoft (I do too), but I don't see what's so bad about an article about one of Apple's competitors and one of Apple's devices. Besides, MacRumors isn't exactly "spamming" my RSS feed. We can do with a few extra articles.

No.. Those games are awesome. I played LA Noire and BF3

Go back and play WOW or other RP fairy games

faroZ06
Jun 4, 2012, 10:30 PM
Nice...makes me wonder WTF Sony has been doing for the last 5 years with the PS3.

PS3 is so far behind 360 at this point.

My XBOX 360 suffers from the Red Ring of Death. If you ask me, my NES is ahead of that piece of poop, and it's from 1985. The XBOX 360 would be great if it wasn't so unreliable that I'm afraid of buying one.

----------

No.. Those games are awesome. I played LA Noire and BF3

Go back and play WOW or other RP fairy games

Ew, I'm never playing WoW. Would you count Legend of Zelda: Windwaker as an RP fairy game? It's role-playing and features 4 fairies at certain points, but I don't know if that counts.

----------

Off-topic, but has anyone noticed that the user ranks are CPU names? If I ever get to 68000, I want my rank to stay there. Kiljoy616 has that magic number.

silroc
Jun 4, 2012, 10:58 PM
As a tech geek this is cool stuff

Picking plays on my iPad for madden could be cool

We can all coexist!

budselectjr
Jun 4, 2012, 11:39 PM
Um... those games suck.


Great comeback. Was just pointing out your lack of knowledge of the gaming industry. Seeing as you still think games are pressed on single layer dvd's. GTA V also most likely will be multi disc as well for Xbox.

bungiefan89
Jun 4, 2012, 11:52 PM
Obviously you aren't married or have a spouse that doesn't mind have a giant white controller sitting on the coffee room table.

Also, try to get your mom, dad, wife, babysitter, house guest, etc to navigate a XBOX menu system if they haven't ever used it.Ugh, do not get me STARTED on how poorly designed the latest Xbox 360 interface is! But that's Microsoft's fault for trying to shoe-horn their lame Windows 8 Metro tablet BS into the design of their game console, which is a completely separate issue.

My beef is with people who seem to insist that everything today MUST have a touch-screen, or MUST function like a Nintendo Wii, out of some starry-eyed notion that it's more "convenient" in every possible way than a physical controller which gives you tactile feedback.

faroZ06
Jun 4, 2012, 11:54 PM
Great comeback. Was just pointing out your lack of knowledge of the gaming industry. Seeing as you still think games are pressed on single layer dvd's. GTA V also most likely will be multi disc as well for Xbox.

There is also dual-layer, which Mac OS X Leopard was shipped on.

----------

Ugh, do not get me STARTED on how poorly designed the latest Xbox 360 interface is! But that's Microsoft's fault for trying to shoe-horn their lame Windows 8 Metro tablet BS into the design of their game console, which is a completely separate issue.

My beef is with people who seem to insist that everything today MUST have a touch-screen, or MUST function like a Nintendo Wii, out of some starry-eyed notion that it's more "convenient" in every possible way than a physical controller which gives you tactile feedback.

Yes. The XBOX 360's main menu is annoying. Sometimes, I just want to stick a disc in and play the game. Also, the whole "accounts" thing ticks me off. You have to make an account for each player...

I think it would be neat if the accounts were stored on the controllers themselves and backed up to the console.

bungiefan89
Jun 4, 2012, 11:55 PM
Simple... Xbox controller requires 2 hands. Normal remote uses 1.

However, anyone who complains about that should have purchased a harmony remote years ago.Yeah, or if you're really in to supporting Microsoft, they even sell a dedicated one-handed remote specifically for the Xbox 360. But I never had a problem with that because I have both my hands, and have no problem manipulating a wireless device that was intended for gaming, but also functions as a remote control for the game console.

budselectjr
Jun 4, 2012, 11:55 PM
There is also dual-layer, which Mac OS X Leopard was shipped on.

No idea what you are talking about and how it relates to xbox games. Sounds like you are boxed up. Anyways, back to the original statement by you:

What game uses multiple discs? A DVD holds 4.7GB, which is plenty.



:rolleyes:

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 12:02 AM
The entire Xbox market. Much different than the horrible proprietary Apple.

Much.

Apple made a gaming console a while back, and it it failed of course. If you count the iPod as a portable gaming console, it looks like they've made a comeback.

----------

No idea what you are talking about and how it relates to xbox games. Sounds like you are boxed up. Anyways, back to the original statement by you:




:rolleyes:

I forgot about dual-layer. Dual-layer DVDs can hold 8.5GB. I think most DVD drives support dual-layer at this point.

----------

You do have to admit that the 360 pad isn't the best for navigating through menus. Preferably, it'd use a controller that'd fit in one hand.

Anyway, the jist of this entire argument is that Microsoft is copying Apple for a technology they themselves didn't even invent. Like MS never had one of the better PC oriented media center setups readily available as far back as XP, and what we're seeing here isn't an extension of that.

No. Apple has AppleTV. Anything that comes out after that is a shameless ripoff. Excuse me while I sigh and abuse the eyeroll and Apple logo emotes. The discussions going on in this thread are pretty dumb when it comes right down to it.

The Apple TV is basically a Mac that only has iTunes. The original one (I have it, and it sucks) was just a Mac running a modified Mac OS X Tiger. I think Apple's iTunes was a fresh idea. It started as a great jukebox, and they added a store. Was there anything like that before iTunes?

budselectjr
Jun 5, 2012, 12:03 AM
I forgot about dual-layer. Dual-layer DVDs can hold 8.5GB. I think most DVD drives support dual-layer at this point.

understandable. Just wanted to let you know that a lot of games(excluding blu-ray) now and in the future have and will be using multiple dvd-9 discs. Regardless if you think the games are good or not.

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 12:06 AM
understandable. Just wanted to let you know that a lot of games(excluding blu-ray) now and in the future have and will be using multiple dvd-9 discs. Regardless if you think the games are good or not.

Multiple dual-layer DVDs? And you have to switch those out mid-game? It should just let you load them all in at first and store the data on a hard drive temporarily.

Or just have multiple DVD drives :D

X Cruz 187
Jun 5, 2012, 01:58 AM
I'm sorry I was looking for MacRumors, some how I got redirected to Microsoft Rumors?

SockRolid
Jun 5, 2012, 02:47 AM
I guess you don't know anything about AirPlay. AirPlay does this exact thing too. Try not to drink the haterade.

Oh. Sorry. Microsoft is doing a great job of stealing Apple ideas after all.

My bad.

Oletros
Jun 5, 2012, 02:49 AM
Oh. Sorry. Microsoft is doing a great job of stealing Apple ideas after all.

My bad.

Stealing what?

FoxMcCloud
Jun 5, 2012, 03:32 AM
Apparently Microsoft are stealing Wireless Display technology that Apple never invented and has been around for a long time.

solarguy17
Jun 5, 2012, 07:00 AM
Who does that? My 360 controller sits in a drawer, and is only pulled out when I play an "old-school" game that doesn't support Kinect. You did know that you can control a 360 with any programmed IR remote, right?
wait really. How many truely 100% Kinect games are there? And how many are hardcore? Halo, CoD, GTA, Battlefield, these are the hardcore gamers MS and developers really like becuase they will pay $60 every year for the yearly update and none of those are Kinect playable.
I would be willing to guess the vast majority of gamers still use the controller exclusively. And it's pretty easy to use it to navigate menus.

scoobydoo99
Jun 5, 2012, 07:19 AM
What game uses multiple discs? A DVD holds 4.7GB, which is plenty. The Gamecube uses miniature discs and has poor graphics (compared to new games) but the best games :)

If anything, we need a console that takes the games from the internet or from installation disc(s) and stores them. Playing a game off of optical media seems a bit slow for newer games that have extremely detailed graphics.

Others have already given you examples. Battlefield 3 and LA Noire are recent ones, and LA Noire was THREE discs for X Box.

DVDs just can't hold entire modern games, unlike Blu-Ray. So these same games come on ONE disc on PS3 and don't require interrupting your gaming to switch discs.

bbeagle
Jun 5, 2012, 07:28 AM
Actually, $109 - Apple AU Store (http://store.apple.com/au/browse/home/shop_ipod/family/apple_tv)

It was $129 here IFIRC, but dropped a little with the release of the 3. I never had any interest up until 1080p. Content aside, my screen resolution was >720p!

LOL

I guess I have to realize we're talking on an international forum. In the United States, where I am, the Apple TV is $99. In Australia, yep, it's $109 or $129.

----------

Apparently Microsoft are stealing Wireless Display technology that Apple never invented and has been around for a long time.

I never said that Microsoft was 'stealing' Apple's ideas. I merely said that this was nothing 'new' that trumped the Apple TV, like some were claiming. It's pretty much the same offering, but from Microsoft.

Again, nothing wrong with Microsoft releasing something like this, just that the Microsoft fan-boys shouldn't call it something unique and new because one of their main competitors has it already.

AidenShaw
Jun 5, 2012, 07:58 AM
I forgot about dual-layer. Dual-layer DVDs can hold 8.5GB. I think most DVD drives support dual-layer at this point.

Most video DVDs have been dual-layer since the introduction of the format. Players have been able to play back DL discs from the beginning.

DL rewriters have been slower to become standard.

theman510
Jun 5, 2012, 08:11 AM
Oh, right, forgot that. Come on Apple! Anyone know if AirParrot supports audio yet?

Yup I was using AirParrot yesterday to stream some Curb Your Enthusiasm to my Apple TV. Audio worked fine, you just need to turn it on.

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 08:22 AM
Will Apple update the Apple TV 1 software so it has AirPlay? My old Airport Express has AirPlay, and it's from waaay back.

I'm guessing not.

alent1234
Jun 5, 2012, 08:25 AM
LOL

I guess I have to realize we're talking on an international forum. In the United States, where I am, the Apple TV is $99. In Australia, yep, it's $109 or $129.

----------



I never said that Microsoft was 'stealing' Apple's ideas. I merely said that this was nothing 'new' that trumped the Apple TV, like some were claiming. It's pretty much the same offering, but from Microsoft.

Again, nothing wrong with Microsoft releasing something like this, just that the Microsoft fan-boys shouldn't call it something unique and new because one of their main competitors has it already.


the x-box had netflix on it since around 2007. before the current apple TV came out

KdParker
Jun 5, 2012, 08:42 AM
Microsoft is definitely pushing the cord cutting options.
The XBox viewing options are very extensive HULU, ESPN3, Netflix, Pandora, Amazon

Problem is the Xbox360 itself... great for playing games, not so much fun navigating TV menus with a huge controller.

Easy to navigate with Kinect....

bbeagle
Jun 5, 2012, 08:46 AM
Will Apple update the Apple TV 1 software so it has AirPlay? My old Airport Express has AirPlay, and it's from waaay back.

I'm guessing not.

Will Microsoft update Windows 95 so that it can use the SmartScreen technology?

I'm guessing not.

*sigh*

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 09:06 AM
Will Microsoft update Windows 95 so that it can use the SmartScreen technology?

I'm guessing not.

*sigh*

I'm surprised Apple even updated my old Airport Express. I think I have the original one.

----------

Apparently Microsoft are stealing Wireless Display technology that Apple never invented and has been around for a long time.

AirTunes (now called AirPlay) came out on the AirPort Express in 2004. What was there before that?

Oletros
Jun 5, 2012, 09:22 AM
airtunes (now called airplay) came out on the airport express in 2004. What was there before that?


DLNA, but I don't undeerstand this "I was first" thing

aikomhoch
Jun 5, 2012, 09:32 AM
Yup I was using AirParrot yesterday to stream some Curb Your Enthusiasm to my Apple TV. Audio worked fine, you just need to turn it on.

Great. Just started watching "The Wire" and would much prefer watching it on the big screen than the MacBookPro. :D

JAT
Jun 5, 2012, 09:56 AM
Great. Just started watching "The Wire" and would much prefer watching it on the big screen than the MacBookPro. :D

Why? You like your video/film grain to be as large as possible?

Rodimus Prime
Jun 5, 2012, 10:04 AM
AirTunes (now called AirPlay) came out on the AirPort Express in 2004. What was there before that?

a few different ones. Just Apple was a big name company to bring it out and make it more comon. Apple was able to leveral its raw breath of products at the time so they could tie it in. The products then were from smaller companies and had a fairly high cost and were flaky at best.

aikomhoch
Jun 5, 2012, 10:13 AM
Why? You like your video/film grain to be as large as possible?

Well, haven't tried it yet. If it's not acceptable I won't watch it that way.

RemE
Jun 5, 2012, 10:53 AM
Kudos to Microsoft to make this for existing platforms, especially rival ones.




Well studies on usage from Microsoft have shown that 50% of consoles are used for purposes other than gaming, particularly streaming media.

I have 4 XBox 360's in my house and have never played a game. They are set to boot up as Windows Media Center Clients. I have a Win7 PC in the closet with a 5TB RAID and Ceton HD tuners. This thing can record 8 HD shows at once, streams to the XBox clients, skips commericals better than anything I've ever seen, with a simple plug-in (something Apple would never do/allow even IF they ever get into TV devices). Also streams to iPhone/iPad's great with Remote Potato and SlingBox.

So yeah, I'm liking that MS is adding yet more functionality to the XBox in this area. I have AppleTV's and they are just OK, airplay is why I have them but they are not that great streaming video from the 4S, buffer a lot, but still handy when needed. I'm no MS or Apple fanboy, I like open systems that allow smart people to create great solutions.

I'm glad that MR forum posts all this stuff, thanks!

JAT
Jun 5, 2012, 10:56 AM
Well, haven't tried it yet. If it's not acceptable I won't watch it that way.

Just don't expect crystal clear gorgeous resolution from this show. It wasn't intended that way.

Tiger8
Jun 5, 2012, 11:17 AM
Microsoft, always one step behind the Apple. But it's great, I'm happy for PC users to have the same options as Mac users. I'm glad that wireless display technologies are finally here!

I remember trying out first wireless display dongles back in 2006, horrible. ATV and similar solutions are so much easier to work with.

These things will really change TV industry with lots of people canceling their cable TVs, seems like only few TV stations are catching up on trend (HBO). Hopefully it won't end up like music industry in early 00s.

Do we need to diss Microsoft and PC users everytime Microsoft comes up?

Apple is definitely my favorite, but I still use a lot of Microsoft products, everyday. There is nothing wrong with having options.

aikomhoch
Jun 5, 2012, 11:22 AM
Just don't expect crystal clear gorgeous resolution from this show. It wasn't intended that way.

Oh, I thought you you were referring to the streaming quality. I'm familiar with their style of TV (and love it!). Grainy is good, in this case.

jaison13
Jun 5, 2012, 11:59 AM
damn it!! i wish ps3 was the company doing this!! i'm sure they still can, but will they? it is a great idea. i saw the demo at e3 on g4. they did a lot of the menu type things in games right on the iPad. it looked like you could completely design your own plays on the newest madden. i'd thinks you'd still need an actual controller too. it would be tough to use a virtual iPad controller while looking at the tv. and you wouldn't wanna play the whole gam looking at an iPhone with a huge tv in front of you. i'm hoping they use bluetooh tech instead of wifi. it would work much better if you linked your device to the game with bluetooth rather than relying on wifi.

anomie
Jun 5, 2012, 12:45 PM
Would have loved if Apple came up with a console. But since they do nothing for gaming beyond Angry Birds, I will continue to use my ps3 as a streaming device for music and TV.
Would still love to see Apple in my livingroom (they generally do these things better than Sony and M$), but unfortunately they offer nothing of interest to me.

theman510
Jun 5, 2012, 12:55 PM
Oh, I thought you you were referring to the streaming quality. I'm familiar with their style of TV (and love it!). Grainy is good, in this case.

The quality isn't great by any means, it's better than SD but not as good as HD. For the purposes of shows that aren't graphically or visually awesome I find it to be more than acceptable.

I'd use it to stream Seinfeld but not Avatar

Mad-B-One
Jun 5, 2012, 01:50 PM
Metro tiles are a convoluted schizophrenic mess of psychedelic smeary colors. It's stupid and dumb.
...
Metro is horrible.

Did you actually use it? Did you play with Windows 8 a little? I did. I updated to Windows 8 and the tiles replace the START MENU - nothing else. It's not confusing - it has two views, either the favorites (the ones you use constantly) or all applications. You hit the "windows" key - or on my Apple Bluetooth keyboard the "options" key and it disappears and the desktop is back. What that has to do with ICD code 295 is a miracle to me. I'm sure you can fill me in. Thing is, Microsoft is changing their navigation atire to tiles and I don't see where this is a problem. It wasn't when I use the XBOX360 - which, besides the phones I don't use, got that design first. You might have to get used to it but now, I get to where I want faster than ever. Do you remember the first XBOX menu? That was a disaster. The current one is quite nifty in my eyes.

PS: If you don't like the standard colors, you will never see them because during the installation, Windows 8 asks you what color scheme you want. If it is "a convoluted schizophrenic mess of psychedelic smeary colors," then you chose it and that is your own fault.

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 01:54 PM
DLNA, but I don't undeerstand this "I was first" thing

DLNA did not make an actual product. Apple was indeed the first to make a product of this kind.

Apple is a computer company, not a tech parts company. They were first with the Macintosh, but the technology for it was already invented of course.

----------

Why? You like your video/film grain to be as large as possible?

It's bigger, but you sit further back. 1080p looks fine if you project it onto a big canvas because you aren't sitting so close to it. It's about what percentage of your view is the screen.

The advantage of watching it on a big TV, of course, is that you can sit on your couch and not have to stare at a small screen.

314631
Jun 5, 2012, 01:57 PM
Xbox is a terrible product. The fans are noisier than a desktop PC from the 90s. Absolute joke Microsoft considers this a product suitable for the living room or consuming digital content such as movies and television shows. Consumers aren't stupid, they do want Apple TV over Xbox every time.

rjohnstone
Jun 5, 2012, 02:04 PM
Xbox is a terrible product. The fans are noisier than a desktop PC from the 90s. Absolute joke Microsoft considers this a product suitable for the living room or consuming digital content such as movies and television shows. Consumers aren't stupid, they do want Apple TV over Xbox every time.
That's a very bold and unsubstantiated claim.
Got any data to back up your comment?

Doc750
Jun 5, 2012, 02:06 PM
Xbox is a terrible product. The fans are noisier than a desktop PC from the 90s. Absolute joke Microsoft considers this a product suitable for the living room or consuming digital content such as movies and television shows. Consumers aren't stupid, they do want Apple TV over Xbox every time.

I prefer my Xbox to my apple tv.

Renzatic
Jun 5, 2012, 02:10 PM
Did you actually use it? Did you play with Windows 8 a little? I did. I updated to Windows 8 and the tiles replace the START MENU - nothing else. It's not confusing - it has two views, either the favorites (the ones you use constantly) or all applications. You hit the "windows" key - or on my Apple Bluetooth keyboard the "options" key and it disappears and the desktop is back. What that has to do with ICD code 295 is a miracle to me. I'm sure you can fill me in. Thing is, Microsoft is changing their navigation atire to tiles and I don't see where this is a problem. It wasn't when I use the XBOX360 - which, besides the phones I don't use, got that design first. You might have to get used to it but now, I get to where I want faster than ever. Do you remember the first XBOX menu? That was a disaster. The current one is quite nifty in my eyes.

PS: If you don't like the standard colors, you will never see them because during the installation, Windows 8 asks you what color scheme you want. If it is "a convoluted schizophrenic mess of psychedelic smeary colors," then you chose it and that is your own fault.

And here I was, all excited about getting a new reply, and...oh...hell...it's just some guy who missed the obvious sarcasm. :P

I'm on Windows 8 right now, and I like it alright. I just got through typing up a bunch of paragraphs reply to some guy down on the Windows on Mac forum not even 5 minutes ago.

Xbox is a terrible product. The fans are noisier than a desktop PC from the 90s. Absolute joke Microsoft considers this a product suitable for the living room or consuming digital content such as movies and television shows. Consumers aren't stupid, they do want Apple TV over Xbox every time.

Darp derp deep darp darp darp APPLE COMPUTERS IS GOOD I HATE EVERYTHING ELSE!

Dude guy. A friend of mine has one of the slim 360's, and the thing is literally dead quiet. At most, the only thing you'll hear is a quiet "svweet svweet" when you first turn it on.

You know, it's alright to like Apple stuff. It's alright to prefer their stuff over the competition, even. That said, it's no excuse for saying dumb crap on the internet that isn't true at all.

Mad-B-One
Jun 5, 2012, 02:27 PM
And here I was, all excited about getting a new reply, and...oh...hell...it's just some guy who missed the obvious sarcasm. :P

I'm on Windows 8 right now, and I like it alright. I just got through typing up a bunch of paragraphs reply to some guy down on the Windows on Mac forum not even 5 minutes ago.

Sorry for missing that. It sounded more lake one of these "I hate everything without an Apple on it" posts. Seen these here a lot, hehehe! There is only one problem I fould with Windows 8 and that is that you either have to push the power button to turn it off or you have to log out first (which since it isn't Windows 7, some background appication answer with a crash - but who cares, they restart with logging in anyways).

----------


Darp derp deep darp darp darp APPLE COMPUTERS IS GOOD I HATE EVERYTHING ELSE!

Dude guy. A friend of mine has one of the slim 360's, and the thing is literally dead quiet. At most, the only thing you'll hear is a quiet "svweet svweet" when you first turn it on.

You know, it's alright to like Apple stuff. It's alright to prefer their stuff over the competition, even. That said, it's no excuse for saying dumb crap on the internet that isn't true at all.

Yea I agree. Another one stuck on the 7 years old console (which at its start was unsurpassed on performance) and didn't realize it isn't the latest product. I have the old one and even that is not too loud either. In contrary, my PC is louder having overlocked hexacore and Radeon HD 6790 in it. And before you argue that I should have bought an Apple instead: My father-in-law has an iMac 2010 and runs Diablo III on minimum settings 800x600, I run it 1080p with all details 40fps+, so there is heat needing to get out.

Oh and if you compare Apple TV with the XBOX360 - don't forget most people's XBOX360 has a HDD with games and some people's like mine has Kinect gestures and voice commands. The latter might not be Siri but does the trick most of the time - even without internet connection. Gotta love Your Shape....

Renzatic
Jun 5, 2012, 02:38 PM
Sorry for missing that. It sounded more lake one of these "I hate everything without an Apple on it" posts. Seen these here a lot, hehehe! There is only one problem I fould with Windows 8 and that is that you either have to push the power button to turn it off or you have to log out first (which since it isn't Windows 7, some background appication answer with a crash - but who cares, they restart with logging in anyways.

Hey, totally understandable. There's a lot of Poe's Law going on around here sometimes.

Oh, and you don't have to log out to shut down the computer. Just bring up the charms bar, go to the gear, and hit the power icon. It'll give you your sleep, shut down, and restart options right from the desktop. Easy as that.

...though not as easy as it would be if they slapped it in the corner of the new start menu somewhere. It's not like they don't have any room for it or anything.

Oh and if you compare Apple TV with the XBOX360 - don't forget most people's XBOX360 has a HDD with games and some people's like mine has Kinect gestures and voice commands. The latter might not be Siri but does the trick most of the time - even without internet connection. Gotta love Your Shape....

Kinect gestures are alright, but I think it's weird shouting at your TV to tell it to do stuff. It isn't an MS issue exactly, as I'd have the same problems with a Siri enabled AppleTV. It's just...awkward to me for some reason. Makes me feel like a total dork. :P

Oletros
Jun 5, 2012, 03:06 PM
Consumers aren't stupid, they do want Apple TV over Xbox every time.

Yap, this is why Apple TV is outsolding Xbox, isn't it?

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 03:29 PM
That's a very bold and unsubstantiated claim.
Got any data to back up your comment?

I, for one, would never use an XBOX 360 for multimedia. I'd use Apple TV.

rjohnstone
Jun 5, 2012, 04:20 PM
I, for one, would never use an XBOX 360 for multimedia. I'd use Apple TV.
That wasn't the question.

But having owned both, I would choose the XBOX.

AppleTV has one of the most idiotic remotes on the planet.
Combine that with its menu intensive navigation and you get pure frustration.
It's so minimalist that it makes navigation 10x harder than it needs to be.
Trying to enter a movie title into a search box with that crappy remote was all it took for my wife to demand its permanent removal from our house.
Form over function... the Ivy way.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 5, 2012, 04:26 PM
Xbox is a terrible product. The fans are noisier than a desktop PC from the 90s. Absolute joke Microsoft considers this a product suitable for the living room or consuming digital content such as movies and television shows. Consumers aren't stupid, they do want Apple TV over Xbox every time.

Sorry but nope. My Xbox can play more file types, it can do more, IT DOES NOT REQUIRE ITUNES. Hell it does not require me to install any extra software on my computer. I could have the Xbox grab media files off a shared drive and play them. Also it can play Divx and Xvid. I do not have to spend the time converting everything over to h264. It will just work. I could put the stuff on flash drives and again JUST WORK.

I can stream stuff over the network, use DNLA.

On top of that It can play DVDs and video games.

Why would I buy an Apple TV. What does Apple TV offer me that my 360 does not. I bought my 360 to play games, everything else is pure bonus but removes the need to get a dedicated box like Ruko or Apple TV.

Renzatic
Jun 5, 2012, 04:44 PM
Don't you understand, guys? It Just Works! Apple Gets It! Steve Jobs!

Rodimus Prime
Jun 5, 2012, 04:47 PM
The loud noisy fan doesn't bother you at all? It's ridiculous how much noise that Xbox 360 fan makes. It's definitely loud enough to persuade me to keep the thing switched off when I want to watch a TV show or movie. Just terrible.

The Apple TV is completely silent and plays all the content I love. Xbox 360 may play a bunch of stupid different file formats but it doesn't come close to playing them all. It is unable to play large chunks of my video library and even refuses to play my iTunes store acquired music that is non-DRM. :)

1. I would not call Xvid and Dvix stupid formats. They are what a majority of video files out there are encoded in. The fact that the Apple TV nor iOS can play them is rather sad and pathetic in and of itself not being able to play the 2 most common formats. Also when you say the can not play the non-DRM music I know you are full of it. The 360 can and does play the acc file formats just fine.

2. I seem to find people tend to make up the fan noise and put their box in some place that just forces the sound to the front. I have never hand as issue with it. Hell back ground noise cover up most of it any how.

Renzatic
Jun 5, 2012, 04:57 PM
I'm sure the noise of fans never used to bother me either until Apple wowed me.

Buy an Xbox slim. Fan problem solved.

Or don't. Whatever.

Renzatic
Jun 5, 2012, 05:15 PM
Is the slim the new 250GB matte finish model? Does it really have a silent fan?

The one 'ole friend bud bought had a glossy finish, with (I believe) 8GB of flash memory onboard. I haven't gone out of my way to gauge decibels or anything, but I recall being surprised at how silent it was when we first hooked it up and turned it on.

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 05:23 PM
That wasn't the question.

But having owned both, I would choose the XBOX.

AppleTV has one of the most idiotic remotes on the planet.
Combine that with its menu intensive navigation and you get pure frustration.
It's so minimalist that it makes navigation 10x harder than it needs to be.
Trying to enter a movie title into a search box with that crappy remote was all it took for my wife to demand its permanent removal from our house.
Form over function... the Ivy way.

Eh... I don't use either or like either. I just hate the XBOX 360. The Apple TV also cannot even watch TV due to its lack of coax input. I want to be able to record shows from the antenna! Well, that's what happens when the company making your TV box also sells media. At least it works well with other Apple products and is reliable.

The XBOX 360 is even worse because it also doesn't have a coax input, costs a lot of money, uses an annoying account system, doesn't work well with my Apple products (no surprise here), wastes electricity, and is very prone to failure. I had 3 broken XBOX 360s at one point that people gave my brother. We threw away two and found out that one of them worked 1/20 times we turned it on (but doesn't have a hard drive or controllers and requires the DVD drive to be forced open).

Oh, one of those 360s turned out to have Super Mario Strikers Wii stuck in it.

----------

Is the slim the new 250GB matte finish model? Does it really have a silent fan?

Both of my Xboxes were bought around with the time Kinect launched. One purchased with Kinect, one without. I think the one without has a Kinect port. But both are noisy as **** the moment you turn them on.

My XBOX 360 has a fan in its power adapter. Piece of s***...

twoodcc
Jun 5, 2012, 09:12 PM
Since all competitors are supposed to bow to a human that isn't even alive anymore?

i didn't say competitors should bow. and i was implying that Jobs would have tried to get Nike+ to stay pro apple and not with microsoft

KevinN206
Jun 6, 2012, 12:05 AM
But are they really making it for rival platforms. The way I read it this only works with iOS if you have an Xbox. That's the hub for your use, it won't work without it.

If it was that would be something. A lot of folks like the notion of those Tony Stark, Avatar etc flick to pull something off a computer screen to your tablet or off your "Surface" style desk to a 3d in air display UIs and this is a step in that direction. Which is cool looking and somewhat practical. But are they really going for universal software or just a way to justify you putting something Microsoft into your mix. Seems more like the latter to me. Which from business standpoint is smart. And hopefully the idea pays off the way they want.
What you said doesn't make sense at all. How do you suppose Microsoft is going to interface with the PS3, ATV, or the Wii? They can't. Cross platform doesn't exclude the Xbox. What it means is that once you have the Xbox, you can use SmartGlass with whatever phone or tablet (iOS, Andorid, WP, Windows 8), and it'll work. To stream anything to ATV using AirPlay, you need an iOS device, period.

----------

key being TO THEIR XBOX. If you don't have that then having an iPhone etc doesn't matter.

this is a gimmick, albeit a potentially very good one, to keep the XBox going. to make sure that it keeps a place in the living room with the Apple TV etc.
What makes this a "gimmick" as opposed to AirPlay where the ENTIRE ecosystem must be iOS based?

----------

Hmmm. Sounds vaguely familiar. I wonder if Ballmer has tried AirPlay...



What a shame. Microsoft was copying AirPlay so well until then.
Dude - sending audio and video to a TV has been done eons ago with DLNA. It's not a new concept. So Microsoft took further than AirPlay, and all of a sudden it's "not as well". I don't logic. The SmartGlass is bidrectional AND it supports multiple platforms. It's an improvement over existing DLNA and AirPlay. Would you say AirPlay is a copy of DLNA? If not, why?

KevinN206
Jun 6, 2012, 12:21 AM
Does everyone notice this new trend of "Buy two very expensive devices, and connect them using a third very expensive device"? This applies for Thunderbolt, too, by the way.

On another note, Microsoft, please do the whole world a favor and stop developing Internet Explorer! Everyone wins: Developers can finally build websites that work the way they should, users get to experience the web the way it was intended, and Microsoft can fire all the idiots who develop Internet Explorer, and save huge amounts of money! The only reason anyone uses that idiotic browser is because they're too damn stupid to download another one, and Microsoft knows that very well…

The only positive thing I can think of about Internet Explorer is that one day, when it will cease to exist, the world will become a better place, all of a sudden.
Internet Explorer 10 is a lot more standard-compliant, GPU hardware accelerated, and extremely fast. I am using right it right now on Windows 8. It has 100/100 on Acid3 and currently 317 on HTM5TEST (Safari 5.2 is 370, Chrome Canary is 442). And it makes perfect sense for them to make a browser for the Xbox. They now have Kinect and SmartGlass to make TV-based browsers a lot more usable than today.

And you know what? Look at all of the -webkit and -mozilla specific extensions. They are a pain in the ass.

KevinN206
Jun 6, 2012, 12:41 AM
...
Yeah, it's almost as bad as IE at this point. It's become very naggy and slow. I actually like IE more than Firefox except that a lot of websites don't work in IE because Microsoft has no regard for web standards. Instead, they try to shove ActiveX junk down our throats.
...
What sites don't work properly? Internet Explorer 10 will be a lot more compliant than it used to be with 100/100 Acid3 and 317 on HTML5TEST (Safari 5.2 is 370). And the only ActiveX that I have seen so far are for Flash.

Oletros
Jun 6, 2012, 02:35 AM
DLNA did not make an actual product. Apple was indeed the first to make a product of this kind.

Are you sure that there was no product?

faroZ06
Jun 6, 2012, 08:36 AM
What sites don't work properly? Internet Explorer 10 will be a lot more compliant than it used to be with 100/100 Acid3 and 317 on HTML5TEST (Safari 5.2 is 370). And the only ActiveX that I have seen so far are for Flash.

It's better than before, but it's still bad. Most complicated sites tell me not to use IE. Also, it somehow messes up the formatting of certain iWeb sites.

----------

Are you sure that there was no product?

DLNA itself has not made a product, and it's nonprofit. There are a lot of companies in the group, including HP, Verizon, and Cisco.

Also, the Wikipedia page said: "Apple Inc. is not a member. Apple uses its own Digital Audio Access Protocol instead of DLNA's UPnP protocols." So Apple doesn't even use their technology.

Oletros
Jun 6, 2012, 08:52 AM
It's better than before, but it's still bad. DLNA itself has not made a product, and it's nonprofit. There are a lot of companies in the group, including HP, Verizon, and Cisco.

I know it, I don't need to search the wikipedia for it

Can you understand that when someone ask if there was something like Airtunes and someones answers DLNA it must mean that there was products using DLNA?

Also, the Wikipedia page said: "Apple Inc. is not a member. Apple uses its own Digital Audio Access Protocol instead of DLNA's UPnP protocols." So Apple doesn't even use their technology.

And?