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MacRumors
Jun 4, 2012, 09:56 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/04/apple-replacing-google-maps-on-ios-with-its-own-solution-later-this-year/)


As previously rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/11/apple-moving-to-in-house-mapping-service-with-3d-views-in-ios-6/), Apple is replacing the default Google Maps service within its iOS operating system with its own mapping solution, according to (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304543904577398502695522974.html) the Wall Street Journal.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/NewImage2.png

Later this year, Apple is planning to oust Google Maps as the preloaded, default maps app from the iPhone and iPad and release a new mapping app that runs Apple's own technology, according to current and former Apple employees. Apple could preview the new software, which will be part of its next mobile-operating system, as soon as next week at its annual developer conference in San Francisco, one person familiar with the plans says. Apple plans to encourage app developers to embed its maps inside their applications like social-networking and search services.Both 9to5Mac (http://9to5mac.com/2012/05/11/ios-6-apple-drops-google-maps-debuts-in-house-maps-with-incredible-3d-mode/) and All Things Digital (http://allthingsd.com/20120511/apples-coming-map-app-will-blow-your-head-off/) had previously reported that Apple will be using an in-house mapping service in iOS 6 following its purchase of a number of mapping companies, including 3D mapping firm C3 Technologies (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/29/apple-did-acquire-3d-mapping-company-c3-technologies/) last year.

Apple has clearly been working for some time to reduce its reliance on Google by developing its own mapping services for iOS, as evidenced by its acquisitions of mapping expertise and job postings (http://www.macrumors.com/2009/11/27/apple-to-take-iphones-maps-app-to-the-next-level/) addressing its ambitions for mapping. The company has already moved location services in-house (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/30/apple-moved-location-services-in-house-with-ipad-and-ios-4/) and revealed last year that it is building a crowd-sourced traffic database (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/27/apple-hints-at-future-turn-by-turn-gps-directions-with-traffic-for-iphone/) based on users' GPS data.

Earlier this year it was noted that Apple wasn't using Google Maps (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/03/07/iphoto-for-ios-not-using-google-maps/) in its iPhoto for iOS application, instead using OpenStreetMap and other services to generate map tiles.

Article Link: Apple Replacing Google Maps On iOS With Its Own Solution Later This Year (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/04/apple-replacing-google-maps-on-ios-with-its-own-solution-later-this-year/)



Hidendra
Jun 4, 2012, 09:57 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

Ljohnson72
Jun 4, 2012, 09:58 PM
If true, I hope it works well because I don't think it's too good looking.

campingsk8er
Jun 4, 2012, 09:58 PM
Finally! I'm really excited for this and all of iOS 6!

applefanDrew
Jun 4, 2012, 10:00 PM
This is the one feature of iOS 6 everybody knows is coming.

GUILTIE
Jun 4, 2012, 10:00 PM
As long as it includes turn by turn directions I'll be happy!

Cougarcat
Jun 4, 2012, 10:00 PM
If true, I hope it works well because I don't think it's too good looking.

That's the "old fashioned" theme for iPhoto, the real maps app won't look like that.

dra
Jun 4, 2012, 10:00 PM
finnaly NO to Google and their data selling system

Prother
Jun 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

They don't want to rely on Google's services anymore. It's not just so they can say they are better.

japanime
Jun 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
There's a mApp for that. :D

blahbrah
Jun 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
If this finally means turn by turn navigation natively in ios6 I'm all for it.

Lordskelic
Jun 4, 2012, 10:01 PM
Awesome! It seems like Google Maps on iOS isn't a good as the Android version, which makes sense as Google wants the better, more featured version on its platform. This is why I am glad that Apple is getting their own mapping solution.

fjanderson94
Jun 4, 2012, 10:02 PM
Finally! I'm really excited for this and all of iOS 6!

Same! I'm glad we will have a change in the Maps app because it's been basically the same since launch of the original iPhone. I can't wait until iOS 6.

dagamer34
Jun 4, 2012, 10:02 PM
Hopefully with some better map tiles than what I see in the story.

myrtlebee
Jun 4, 2012, 10:03 PM
I truly hope they retain a normal satellite view and PLEASE keep Street View somehow. It is incredibly useful and the whole "3D" gimmick that has been rumored for some time now seems pretty useless. I hope my pessimism is wrong.

ChrisTX
Jun 4, 2012, 10:03 PM
I hope to be blown away by iOS6 because so far the rumors don't sound all that inciting. Honestly, at this point I'm more excited about the new MacBook pros than an iOS maps refresh.

jmcguckin
Jun 4, 2012, 10:03 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

I think theoretically the same could have been said about Google when they first debuted their Maps service as a contender to MapQuest. frankly, knowing the resources Apple have available (specifically for R&D purposes into their own mapping service), and the way that a majority of their products have completely trounced the competition (iPod/iPhone/iPad/etc.), I for one am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially if this new mapping service is more heavily integrated into iOS than the current Maps app.

daneoni
Jun 4, 2012, 10:04 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

Apple has also been doing this for years...in their R&D labs.

TMar
Jun 4, 2012, 10:04 PM
And along with it gos street view and all Google's data Apple can't hope to compete with. Sad really.

hathornb
Jun 4, 2012, 10:04 PM
Didn't we already know this? For some reason this just feels like old news...

Limboistik
Jun 4, 2012, 10:06 PM
It is old news, except WSJ just feels like they need to get in on the rumor action by reposting rumors as their own.

TMar
Jun 4, 2012, 10:06 PM
Apple has also been doing this for years...in their R&D labs.

It take more then sitting in a lab working on it. Apple isn't going to put the real world effort into Google has.

Hastings101
Jun 4, 2012, 10:06 PM
Hopefully Google Maps appears in the App Store lol

hayduke
Jun 4, 2012, 10:08 PM
Please, please, please don't use the same *ugly* pins!!!

flash84x
Jun 4, 2012, 10:10 PM
If true, I hope it works well because I don't think it's too good looking.

We are probably seeing screenshots of very early builds or builds that the QA teams use to test their hardware. It's Apple, I think we can bet on the interface being well thought out and attractive.

wackymacky
Jun 4, 2012, 10:11 PM
if these mockups are a true indication then i'm not going to rush for it.

I use the satellite view and street view sevral times a week. Although pretty, these mockup pictures don't cut the mustard.

tremlock
Jun 4, 2012, 10:11 PM
Hopefully Google Maps appears in the App Store lol

Exactly.

And what about support for older devices that won't run ios6?

Kaibelf
Jun 4, 2012, 10:13 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

It's called having 100 billion dollars and fanatical devotion to quality all the way down to the most commonplace initiative. Try not setting the bar so low.

Zarkizon
Jun 4, 2012, 10:14 PM
I kind of like the aged look of the maps in iPhoto and the images on the article. I would really like the functionality to remain the same though, as well as including some others.

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 4, 2012, 10:14 PM
That's the "old fashioned" theme for iPhoto, the real maps app won't look like that.

I sure hope you're right.

While in certain settings I can see that being a lovely theme (IE, in a game like Zelda Wind Waker,) it doesn't look... I don't know, professional? clean? I can't think of the word I'm looking for...

danahn17
Jun 4, 2012, 10:14 PM
It take more then sitting in a lab working on it. Apple isn't going to put the real world effort into Google has.

I'm sure Apple put some real world effort into it. They just didn't lose it in a bar for the world to see yet. :D:p

newyorksole
Jun 4, 2012, 10:14 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

just like cell phone manufacturers were doing well the years before 2007 right?

ChrisTX
Jun 4, 2012, 10:15 PM
And along with it gos street view and all Google's data Apple can't hope to compete with. Sad really.

The only ones that benefit are Apple while the rest of us essentially get screwed. Here's to hoping we get to chose which maps we can install on our iOS devices.

kjs862
Jun 4, 2012, 10:15 PM
Apple is opening up a bag of hurt. If they want to start developing their own maps, they need to do the whole package like search. A big part why Google's maps is a hit is because it integrates well with the rest of Google's systems.

Rogifan
Jun 4, 2012, 10:15 PM
That's the "old fashioned" theme for iPhoto, the real maps app won't look like that.

Blech Apple get rid of all these themes. Stop with the ornamentation in your software!

McBeats
Jun 4, 2012, 10:18 PM
Yeah, I don't know how to feel about this. Here's to hoping they do it right. :p

Roessnakhan
Jun 4, 2012, 10:19 PM
I hope Apple drops Google Maps so that hopefully Google will release their own iOS app with all the bells and whistles that their Android one has.

boss.king
Jun 4, 2012, 10:19 PM
If they do go with an in-house solution, I'd be curious to see if they launch it as a beta or a US only version. If they don't have it working as well as Google maps from day one, people won't be as likely to trust it. Directions are the sort of thing people rely on to be right the first time.

I use Bing maps on my Titan but I still doublecheck longer trips on Google Maps first because they've never steered me wrong. I'm starting to trust Bing more but Google maps are still the golden standard IMO.

Demeetch
Jun 4, 2012, 10:19 PM
Good for them. Apple is its own software/hardware company and shouldn't always have to rely on Google forever for their maps. I am however, curious to see how this will, not so much compete with google (because I dont think that that is Apple's aim), but how people will take to it in comparison TO Google, as there will be an inevitable comparison when it comes out. I am optimistic about this and hope its a success. :)

Warbrain
Jun 4, 2012, 10:20 PM
Apple is opening up a bag of hurt. If they want to start developing their own maps, they need to do the whole package like search. A big part why Google's maps is a hit is because it integrates well with the rest of Google's systems.

I think the reason why so many people us it is because competing products suck. Google Maps isn't great at what it does; it is just the best option.

Trius
Jun 4, 2012, 10:21 PM
Apple is opening up a bag of hurt. If they want to start developing their own maps, they need to do the whole package like search. A big part why Google's maps is a hit is because it integrates well with the rest of Google's systems.

Why would you think that a third party map app would be more integrated than Apple's own map app that they have been working on for years?

damir00
Jun 4, 2012, 10:22 PM
What practical advantage does this switch give me, the user?

cvaldes
Jun 4, 2012, 10:23 PM
Exactly.

And what about support for older devices that won't run ios6?
Well, those devices would be running the Maps app from the older iOS version, and thus connecting to Google Maps.

Remember, this doesn't mean that Apple intends to block Google Maps. It just means that the built-in Maps app on iOS 6 (and later, presumably) would access a different map database.

If someone builds an app that connects to Google Maps, that's fine.

Another option is for Apple to make their own map service the default on iOS 6, but offer Google Maps as an alternate data source, just like one can choose between Google, Yahoo, and Bing as the default search engine for Safari.

What practical advantage does this switch give me, the user?
We don't know yet. Hopefully better data, although right now, it seems difficult to imagine that Apple could beat Google at mapping services. In particular, Google has a several year head start on Apple concerning Street View.

About a week ago, I saw am unmarked street view surveying car not far from where I live. Was it Apple's? Who knows.

Warbrain
Jun 4, 2012, 10:25 PM
Well, those devices would be running the Maps app from the older iOS version, and thus connecting to Google Maps.

Remember, this doesn't mean that Apple intends to block Google Maps. It just means that the built-in Maps app on iOS 6 (and later, presumably) would access a different map database.

If someone builds an app that connects to Google Maps, that's fine.

If someone who isn't Google wants to pay the fees Google charges for using their maps then they can. No developer in their right mind will (other than Google) because they can use the built-in solution.

blinkin182
Jun 4, 2012, 10:29 PM
I truly hope they retain a normal satellite view and PLEASE keep Street View somehow. It is incredibly useful and the whole "3D" gimmick that has been rumored for some time now seems pretty useless. I hope my pessimism is wrong.

Agreed, I think one of the best features in Google Maps is its street view functionality. That and the fact that they have a huge database of places/businesses, which make finding restaurants, bars etc. much faster and easier.

I also hope that Apple considers the rest of the world. Siri's limitations to finding places in the US only has many Europeans (and the rest of the world) frustrated. So building up a truly international mapping service is a big challenge. I hope they can find some kind of open solution, like open maps, which can improve the service through users.

I know having "open" and "Apple" in the same sentence is a bit shocking or wishful thinking, but one can always dream!

avanpelt
Jun 4, 2012, 10:31 PM
Google Maps on iOS is a stagnant product, in my opinion. To the best of my knowledge, it hasn't received a meaningful update in a few years; and it is obviously lagging behind its Android counterpart. If Apple can make a more compelling app, more power to them. However, if they add one really useful piece (navigation) and one eye candy piece (3D), but lose satellite view or traffic overlays, I'll be disappointed overall.

I already use MotionX for nav and it works fantastically, for the most part. I hate the thought of losing Street View, but at this point that seems inevitable.

I wish Apple would put the current Google Maps app in the app store once iOS 6 is released, but I don't think that will happen for a second. No way did Apple invest all that money to acquire mapping companies to keep paying Google royalties to use their maps product because a subset of iOS users don't like change.

TheIguana
Jun 4, 2012, 10:31 PM
I wonder what will happen to Google Transit directions if Apple ditches Google Maps. I can't say I am thrilled with this move if that disappears.

Warbrain
Jun 4, 2012, 10:32 PM
I wonder what will happen to Google Transit directions if Apple ditches Google Maps. I can't say I am thrilled with this move if that disappears.

Google has sourced those from the transit agencies. Apple likely has done the same.

SpasticPat
Jun 4, 2012, 10:32 PM
Maybe it will use Siri. Tim Cook said they were giving Siri more options. Think about it:

Me: Siri, can you direct me to get to Heinz Field to see the Steelers play? And make sure it's a fast route, avoiding traffic.
Siri: I will lead you to Heinz Field. Route 28 south is backed up with an average wait time of 20 minutes. If you get off at exit 5 and follow Lowman Street, you will reach the destination 15 minutes faster.
Me: Thanks Siri!

*as we're driving along*

Me: Siri, I need a pitt stop, can you take me to a Sheetz?
Siri: Make a left to get to Sheetz
After Sheetz
Siri: To get back on your route, turn right out of Sheetz and then turn Right onto 3rd Ave.

So Siri could do turn by turn directions and do side stops and everything along the way. I hope so!

dermeister
Jun 4, 2012, 10:32 PM
These maps look nasty. Apple tried to make them look "old". They have to stop doing this... The software people have gone off the rails.

pgiguere1
Jun 4, 2012, 10:33 PM
if these mockups are a true indication then i'm not going to rush for it.

I use the satellite view and street view sevral times a week. Although pretty, these mockup pictures don't cut the mustard.

Those are not mockups but screenshots of iPhoto for iOS.

Mjmar
Jun 4, 2012, 10:34 PM
I will miss Google street view

Freyqq
Jun 4, 2012, 10:35 PM
Maybe now we'll finally have a native turn-by-turn gps in iOS

jclardy
Jun 4, 2012, 10:37 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

The same way they beat Blackberry, Windows Mobile and Palm OS who had been making smartphones for years already?

GMaps is great, but there is no such thing as perfect software. Everything can be improved.

nuckinfutz
Jun 4, 2012, 10:42 PM
What practical advantage does this switch give me, the user?

http://gigaom.com/apple/apple-purchase-of-placebase-confirmed-goodbye-google-maps/

Placebase had a pretty simple API that allowed developers to layer maps with information. What we're seeing are simply static map information but if the Geo Team at Apple have been cranking away like busy little beavers what we should see are interesting ways of presenting data (http://9to5mac.com/2011/08/11/placebase-team-at-apple-file-schematic-maps-patent-dynamically-detailing-important-data/) to the end user.

The new mapping API should be interesting. Looking forward to next week to see what's "really" coming.

AppleScruff1
Jun 4, 2012, 10:42 PM
And then they'll upgrade the map service and it won't work on your year old device.

a0me
Jun 4, 2012, 10:43 PM
The same way they beat Blackberry, Windows Mobile and Palm OS who had been making smartphones for years already?

GMaps is great, but there is no such thing as perfect software. Everything can be improved.
Sure, but where do they get all the data for the places you've favorited / reviewed, the maps you've saved, etc. in Google Maps?
When the iPhone was released you could still use your email, your address book, calendar, etc... I don't think the transition from Google Maps can be made so easily.

jacob-07
Jun 4, 2012, 10:46 PM
if it aint broke dont fix it...

John.B
Jun 4, 2012, 11:00 PM
I'm just as happy for Google to have one less way to track me.

Sure, but where do they get all the data for the places you've favorited / reviewed, the maps you've saved, etc. in Google Maps?
When the iPhone was released you could still use your email, your address book, calendar, etc... I don't think the transition from Google Maps can be made so easily.

If that's true, it would be because Google didn't want that data to be transportable.

danahn17
Jun 4, 2012, 11:04 PM
Maybe it will use Siri. Tim Cook said they were giving Siri more options. Think about it:

Me: Siri, can you direct me to get to Heinz Field to see the Steelers play? And make sure it's a fast route, avoiding traffic.
Siri: I will lead you to Heinz Field. Route 28 south is backed up with an average wait time of 20 minutes. If you get off at exit 5 and follow Lowman Street, you will reach the destination 15 minutes faster.
Me: Thanks Siri!

*as we're driving along*

Me: Siri, I need a pitt stop, can you take me to a Sheetz?
Siri: Make a left to get to Sheetz
After Sheetz
Siri: To get back on your route, turn right out of Sheetz and then turn Right onto 3rd Ave.

So Siri could do turn by turn directions and do side stops and everything along the way. I hope so!
The Android version of Google Maps already lets you search locations for navigation by voice... but if Apple can pull off scenarios like you just described, that'd be a pretty substantial improvement over the Android implementation (which is still really good).

One problem though. Why would you want to go to Heinz Field to watch the Steelers? - signed Ravens fan. (I kid though :P )

daneoni
Jun 4, 2012, 11:09 PM
It take more then sitting in a lab working on it. Apple isn't going to put the real world effort into Google has.

At least wait until the product is released before slaughtering it. If being in the market for a long period was all it took to succeed then Nokia and RIM would still own the Smartphone market.

Apple isn't stupid. They already know fully well what they're competing against and how best to compete against it on their platform.

Fact is Google maps only works great on Android, the experience is nearly always subpar on EVERY other platform. And I for one I'm curious about what Apple has come up with.

rnizlek
Jun 4, 2012, 11:12 PM
I wonder what will happen to Google Transit directions if Apple ditches Google Maps. I can't say I am thrilled with this move if that disappears.

I agree with you 100%. This is my largest concern. Perhaps, as another poster suggested, Apple will allow transit agencies to submit GTFS files for their platform. This is what Bing does. However, the coverage of transit on Bing pales in comparison to Google Maps. Other than the largest agencies, I don't think too many will be keen on maintaing their data on multiple platforms (although everything will be using GTFS, both Bing and Google have different procedures for having agencies update their data).

For street navigation, I have a stand alone GPS app. The times that I most depend on the Maps app is navigating transit in unfamiliar cities, and Google Transit is a lifesaver for doing this.

If Apple does switch and doesn't provide the ability to access Google Maps, and if Google doesn't provide an app (or if Apple blocks it), I would seriously have to consider a switch to a different platform. That's how valuable transit routing is to me. Obviously, this is not the case for a lot of users, but I spend a lot of time traveling and use public transit anywhere I can.

I'm pretty confident at this point that we'll be able to access Google Maps one way or another. I hope I'm right.

ryan2714
Jun 4, 2012, 11:21 PM
unless they're including turn-by-turn navigation WHO CARES??

SeattleMoose
Jun 4, 2012, 11:24 PM
...the tentacles of the Google "octopus" will be severed.

budselectjr
Jun 4, 2012, 11:49 PM
It's called having 100 billion dollars and fanatical devotion to quality all the way down to the most commonplace initiative. Try not setting the bar so low.

The 100 billion is for when you just want to buy out another maping company and not develop anything yourself .

evorc
Jun 4, 2012, 11:53 PM
Turn by turn voice by our very own siri's voice? I say why not!!:D

Westside guy
Jun 4, 2012, 11:55 PM
I'm pretty confident at this point that we'll be able to access Google Maps one way or another. I hope I'm right.

You do realize they have a pretty good maps website... right?

CShort
Jun 5, 2012, 12:15 AM
If it uses "Open Street Map" data then say goodbye to Australian users. Google on Safari will probably win out, or maps.nokia.com which actually has a lot of features including offline maps and turn by turn navigation!

daviddth
Jun 5, 2012, 12:16 AM
Running on its own equipment.... Like Siri who can't be accessed 50% of the time outside the USA, or when it does work it is slow or feature poor for the local area... :(

I don't think I'll upgrade to iOS 6 straight away when it is released

aaaaaaron
Jun 5, 2012, 12:58 AM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

I think they are going to include a Thomas Guide with every iPhone purchase.

Me: "Siri, give me directions to Rob's house"
Siri: "Please turn your Thomas Guide to page 372, Column G, Row 6..." :)

trekkie604
Jun 5, 2012, 12:59 AM
those map tiles look hideous... something from a world atlas circa 1975 :(

mdriftmeyer
Jun 5, 2012, 01:25 AM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

I don't think you understand how much Google Maps relies on 3rd party sources and that you don't understand the amassed talent at Apple.

Truffy
Jun 5, 2012, 01:29 AM
That's the "old fashioned" theme for iPhoto, the real maps app won't look like that.
I hope you're right, because the only screenshots that I've seen look like a throwback to the 1920s, and that's not a good thing.

Xenc
Jun 5, 2012, 01:41 AM
We are probably seeing screenshots of very early builds or builds that the QA teams use to test their hardware. It's Apple, I think we can bet on the interface being well thought out and attractive.

The screenshots are from iPhoto.

jacg
Jun 5, 2012, 01:58 AM
I wonder if there will be creases and shadows on the maps so that people used to real maps feel at home?

mezurashii
Jun 5, 2012, 02:02 AM
Yuck, yuck, yuck. I certainly hope that preview doesn't resemble the final product.

mrxak
Jun 5, 2012, 02:06 AM
Turn-by-turn with Siri's voice is all I really want. Should be interesting next week when this is demoed.

ellaimac
Jun 5, 2012, 02:21 AM
Apple should keep in mind that the whole world is not USA.

TC03
Jun 5, 2012, 02:45 AM
I hope Apple realizes that the current version of Google Maps is very powerful and that you need to come with something really good in order to match that quality. For example, when I'm in Amsterdam I can use Google Maps to calculate a route using public transport. It gets me walking directions and departure times instantly and it works brilliantly. I'm really worried that features like that will be ommitted, at least in the beginning...

I just hope that Google Maps will be available as an app within the AppStore, because I use it a lot and I don't want to use an inferior alternative.

samxool
Jun 5, 2012, 02:47 AM
Apple should keep in mind that the whole world is not USA.


I'm more concerned about that Samesung will blatantly copy this the moment apple release their iMaps!!:mad:

emeybee
Jun 5, 2012, 02:48 AM
I hope Apple realizes that the current version of Google Maps is very powerful and that you need to come with something really good in order to match that quality. For example, when I'm in Amsterdam I can use Google Maps to calculate a route using public transport. It gets me walking directions and departure times instantly and it works brilliantly. I'm really worried that features like that will be ommitted, at least in the beginning...

I just hope that Google Maps will be available as an app within the AppStore, because I use it a lot and I don't want to use an inferior alternative.

Not to mention in Google Maps I can lookup a tiny random town like Gisenyi, Rwanda and actually see streets and place names. I fear Apple's maps will be more like Bing-- which still doesn't even cover Shanghai.

TC03
Jun 5, 2012, 02:50 AM
Apple should keep in mind that the whole world is not USA.I agree 100%. It's not acceptable if some of its biggest features are only available in the USA.

A big advantage of Google Maps is the searching, I can find even the most unknown little shops, restaurants or companies in the most unknown places. Any alternative less powerful than that will be a huge disappointment.

mabaker
Jun 5, 2012, 03:25 AM
It is old news, except WSJ just feels like they need to get in on the rumor action by reposting rumors as their own.

Exactly. Sad state of affairs where they pretend to be relevant.

tekno
Jun 5, 2012, 04:27 AM
So is this now fact and no longer rumour?

Cod3rror
Jun 5, 2012, 04:33 AM
Exactly.

And what about support for older devices that won't run ios6?

That's an interesting question actually, what about the old devices? Will they still use Google Maps?

I hope Apple drops Google Maps so that hopefully Google will release their own iOS app with all the bells and whistles that their Android one has.

That would be really great, but Apple might not let them do it.

tekno
Jun 5, 2012, 04:39 AM
I also hope that Apple considers the rest of the world. Siri's limitations to finding places in the US only has many Europeans (and the rest of the world) frustrated.


Very true. iMaps (as it'll probably be called in a continuation of Apple's highly imaginative naming structure) will probably heavily support the US and have a greatly cut-down version for the rest of the world.

As for Google offering a Maps app - how much will that be? I wonder if they'll 'punish' iPhone users and price it at $30+?

bobbleheadbob
Jun 5, 2012, 04:46 AM
Apple should just buy Google.

I miss Steve.

macandiPhone
Jun 5, 2012, 04:54 AM
It should be obvious that they will be naming the app as "iMap" going by Apple's terminology. Also I hope they don't make this app as "Paid".:p

Haaa..:D

I am excited to find out what comes out from WWDC......

SBlue1
Jun 5, 2012, 05:10 AM
Ok, lets see what this looks like. I am curious.

haydn!
Jun 5, 2012, 05:15 AM
I understand Apples desire to break free from Google (expect iSearch in iOS 7!) but without the level of detail that Google offers through street view and satellite view, I can imagine an iMaps app will be a little lacklustre.

And, if it's another Siri where outside the USA its pretty much featureless, iMaps would be a downgrade for most iOS users!

I suspect however, that Google Maps will become a very popular app in the App Store shortly after... unless Google use that advantage to push Android.

justperry
Jun 5, 2012, 06:10 AM
I don't think you understand how much Google Maps relies on 3rd party sources and that you don't understand the amassed talent at Apple.

This.↑
Best post on this topic.
People should start to understand that Google does NOT make their own maps, one(2) of it's main contributors are Tele Atlas and Nasa.
If Google can make navigation software then so can Apple.

Apple "just" have to get the licenses from those same companies and build up an App from there.
Apple has a lot more cash to burn than google so they can easily pull it of.

And for those people who want free turn by turn, it's not going happen, maybe Apple will provide it but only on a paid version, they themselves have to pay licenses if they provide turn by turn.

Piggie
Jun 5, 2012, 06:11 AM
finnaly NO to Google and their data selling system

“When you use Siri or Dictation, the things you say will be recorded and sent to Apple in order to convert what you say into text and, for Siri, to also process your requests,” writes Apple. “Your device will also send Apple other information, such as your first name and nickname; the names, nicknames, and relationship with you (e.g., ‘my dad’) of your address book contacts; and song names in your collection (collectively, your ‘User Data’). All of this data is used to help Siri and Dictation understand you better and recognize what you say. It is not linked to other data that Apple may have from your use of other Apple services. By using Siri or Dictation, you agree and consent to Apple’s and its subsidiaries’ and agents’ transmission, collection, maintenance, processing, and use of this information, including your voice input and User Data, to provide and improve Siri, Dictation, and other Apple products and services.”

Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/ibm-bans-siri-use-due-to-security-risks-should-you/#ixzz1wur0IvXa

Blakjack
Jun 5, 2012, 06:21 AM
I agree with you 100%. This is my largest concern. Perhaps, as another poster suggested, Apple will allow transit agencies to submit GTFS files for their platform. This is what Bing does. However, the coverage of transit on Bing pales in comparison to Google Maps. Other than the largest agencies, I don't think too many will be keen on maintaing their data on multiple platforms (although everything will be using GTFS, both Bing and Google have different procedures for having agencies update their data).

For street navigation, I have a stand alone GPS app. The times that I most depend on the Maps app is navigating transit in unfamiliar cities, and Google Transit is a lifesaver for doing this.

If Apple does switch and doesn't provide the ability to access Google Maps, and if Google doesn't provide an app (or if Apple blocks it), I would seriously have to consider a switch to a different platform. That's how valuable transit routing is to me. Obviously, this is not the case for a lot of users, but I spend a lot of time traveling and use public transit anywhere I can.

I'm pretty confident at this point that we'll be able to access Google Maps one way or another. I hope I'm right.

I really don't think we have to worry about this guys. Some things are just no brainers in terms of switching to your own maps. I'm willing to bet my last dime, this will be including.

Oletros
Jun 5, 2012, 06:34 AM
This.↑
Best post on this topic.
People should start to understand that Google does NOT make their own maps, one(2) of it's main contributors are Tele Atlas and Nasa.
If Google can make navigation software then so can Apple.


Google is doing his own mapping.

And people forgets the huge database of places that Google has

verniesgarden
Jun 5, 2012, 07:21 AM
my ideal would be the option to plug in your own navi-app like how twitter is a module app, but say you plug in Tom-Tom, personally i can easily say goodbye to street-veiw, always felt it was useless, least maybe around here cause it was always hopelessly out of date.

skywalkerr69
Jun 5, 2012, 07:25 AM
I don't understand why Apple is doing this. Google maps is a good thing for iOS. I hope it's worth their time and engery.

miniroll32
Jun 5, 2012, 07:27 AM
those map tiles look hideous... something from a world atlas circa 1975 :(

For the millionth time... MOCK UP.

jonnysods
Jun 5, 2012, 07:42 AM
I wonder how good this will be? I don't really like Maps right now so I'm looking forward to a quality upgrade.

stevemiller
Jun 5, 2012, 07:48 AM
Why do I get the impending sense of dread that anything nice about this switch is going to be US only…

Spanky Deluxe
Jun 5, 2012, 07:49 AM
I'll be pretty annoyed if the new solution gets rid of Street View.

the read
Jun 5, 2012, 07:57 AM
When are Apple going to learn to work with other companies and use them to work with their strengths.

Disappointing that Apple see Google maps as a form of competition.

They will benefit nothing from this.

slimjimtx
Jun 5, 2012, 08:28 AM
I hope Apple realizes that the current version of Google Maps is very powerful and that you need to come with something really good in order to match that quality. For example, when I'm in Amsterdam I can use Google Maps to calculate a route using public transport. It gets me walking directions and departure times instantly and it works brilliantly. I'm really worried that features like that will be ommitted, at least in the beginning...

I just hope that Google Maps will be available as an app within the AppStore, because I use it a lot and I don't want to use an inferior alternative.

No one will hold a gun to your head, forcing you to upgrade...

ericinboston
Jun 5, 2012, 08:38 AM
When are Apple going to learn to work with other companies and use them to work with their strengths.

Disappointing that Apple see Google maps as a form of competition.

They will benefit nothing from this.

Yup...This is the same Apple from 1987...can't work with other businesses because of Apple's "My way or the highway" mentality.

So Apple is going to a)take away the most popular mapping system on the planet and replace it with some Apple-created one b)Apple really isn't in the mapping business and c)Apple is just digging itself deeper into the "only made by Apple" mentality that killed Apple in the late 80s through the mid 90s.

I still laugh so hard when Apple released the iPod and it was only compatible/available with Macs...you know, those machines owned by 0.1% of the world population back in 2001. Then Apple (Jobs actually, by all reports) finally agreed to port iTunes to Windows so the other 99+% of the world could use it and the rest is history. If Apple keeps believing the consumers are going to mindlessly buy Apple products that are 100% Apple, Apple's in for another crash.

Let's see what Google releases in a few days as part of their new map system...and what iOS users will not be able to enjoy.

cotak
Jun 5, 2012, 08:51 AM
Apple is opening up a bag of hurt. If they want to start developing their own maps, they need to do the whole package like search. A big part why Google's maps is a hit is because it integrates well with the rest of Google's systems.

Ding ding ding, bingo. The point missed by most people here. I am sure Apple will do something to try and side step this but in the mean time I can set up maps on my mac and it goes straight to my android phone. Don't have my iphone anymore but does your maps show up in the map app in iOS?

danahn17
Jun 5, 2012, 09:02 AM
Turn-by-turn with Siri's voice is all I really want. Should be interesting next week when this is demoed.

Why set the bar so low? Siri is great and all... but it still sounds a bit robotic to me. Some of the standalone GPS voices sound really natural. Even the Ice Cream Sandwich version of Google Navigation app has a voice that sounds pretty good.

justperry
Jun 5, 2012, 09:12 AM
Google is doing his own mapping.

And people forgets the huge database of places that Google has

Try again;)↓

Oletros
Jun 5, 2012, 09:19 AM
Try again;)↓

Why? Where does it contradicts what I'm saying? Google started mapping for his own and now it uses different sources depending of the type of map or place.

chrisbru
Jun 5, 2012, 09:32 AM
For the millionth time... MOCK UP.

For the millionth time... SCREENSHOT of iPhoto for iOS.


To clarify: The picture in the article is not a screenshot of a new maps app. Nor is it a mock up of anything. It is just a screenshot of the iPhoto location tile screen on iOS.

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2012, 09:45 AM
This.↑
Best post on this topic.
People should start to understand that Google does NOT make their own maps,

And people should understand that the value of Google Maps is not in the maps themselves (anybody can walk into a convenience store and buy a map), it's in all the geolocation data tied to places, shops, restaurants, sights, cities and in services like Street view, directions, mass transit information, etc.. etc..

Right now, I can search for a route from a restaurant to a specific bar accross town and ask Google to make that route using mass transit and walking only. It gives me the stops I will need to wait at, the buses I need to take, at what time from the current time and be pretty good about it. I will also be able to see the surrounding streets as if I was there so that when I do get there using the bus, I will know where to get off by seeing things I recognize.

That's the value of Google Maps. Now, the question is, can Apple match this on release, on the scale that Google offers it right now (more than just the US), with the same breadth of data ?

For one, I doubt they can match Street View that's for sure. The question is, will they have a feature that is similar enough, or a feature that sets it apart.

The problem with Apple is not things like revolutionizing markets using systems. The problem with Apple is revolutionizing things in the area of cloud services. Ping, MobileMe, .Mac, iCloud, whatever, Apple has never been great at these things. Will iMap be different ? Will it be just a "meh, shoulda stuck with Google Maps" kinda thing ?

In the end, they better make darn sure they aren't replacing Google out of spite, but because they do have a genuine better solution. At this point, no one can say since we just don't know. And when we do, it will be too late to go back if this is another Ping in the making.

Waxhead138
Jun 5, 2012, 09:52 AM
If this finally means turn by turn navigation natively in ios6 I'm all for it.

Exactly.

For anyone that has used both Android and IOS platforms, I assume that all agree that turn by turn is a necessity that IOS is seriously lacking. Obviously, in my eyes, Google will not just give it too them....so we get a watered down version. Apple has no other choice than to develop it on their own. If anyone expects perfection just out of the gate, then expect to be disappointed. It will take time to get it right (even if years of R/D have been invested, there will be catches, and we know this.)

I for one support the effort, sheerly because TxT Directions are the only thing I miss from Android, and IMO the only serious item that IOS is lacking from an otherwise solid and performing platform (comparing basic functions anyway.)

aristotle
Jun 5, 2012, 10:16 AM
I hope some of you realize that Google acquired Keyhole software and that they were the original makers of what you know know as Google Earth and Google maps. Google has not been in the maps business that long.

Also consider that the firmed which Apple have acquired were involved with Nokia's 3D map solution which is at least on par with Google 3D maps if not better.

John.B
Jun 5, 2012, 10:19 AM
I agree 100%. It's not acceptable if some of its biggest features are only available in the USA.

A big advantage of Google Maps is the searching, I can find even the most unknown little shops, restaurants or companies in the most unknown places. Any alternative less powerful than that will be a huge disappointment.

I couldn't disagree more.

Lately when I've been searching for a location with the Maps app on my iPad or iPhone to help plan a trip, I have been getting hits for Google's "sponsored links", instead of what I'm actually looking for.

Sometimes "even the most unknown little shops, restaurants or companies in the most unknown places" aren't helpful.

lilo777
Jun 5, 2012, 10:22 AM
finnaly NO to Google and their data selling system

What's wrong with Google selling map data?

Oletros
Jun 5, 2012, 10:25 AM
What's wrong with Google selling map data?


I think that the OP tried to say that Google sells YOUR personal data

paul4339
Jun 5, 2012, 10:26 AM
That would be really great, but Apple might not let them do it.

I'm not so sure about that... Apple ran into lots of trouble with the Feds in the past when the tried the stall other Google apps from iOS... they have to apply their policies evenhandedly otherwise they will get lots of scrutiny.

.

mrial
Jun 5, 2012, 10:35 AM
I'll be pretty annoyed if the new solution gets rid of Street View.

Also if they don't have the public transportation option for routing with the route numbers and times.

jclardy
Jun 5, 2012, 10:46 AM
Sure, but where do they get all the data for the places you've favorited / reviewed, the maps you've saved, etc. in Google Maps?
When the iPhone was released you could still use your email, your address book, calendar, etc... I don't think the transition from Google Maps can be made so easily.

For some people, sure. My guess is the majority of people use google maps like I do...search -> directions -> from my current location.

No saved searches, no favorites/reviews, no saved routes. For people's houses I have the information in address book.

I'm not saying that Apple's solution will be better at everything, but I'm sure it will be better at some things.

And this could end up better for everyone...Google may be allowed to implement their own GMaps standalone app, which means we get more than a yearly update. Plus it means more new features all around because of the increased competition.

chrisbru
Jun 5, 2012, 10:55 AM
Also if they don't have the public transportation option for routing with the route numbers and times.

Maybe they'll do one better and have a more thorough public transportation option. The one in Google Maps really isn't that good for the cities it does have, and is missing plenty of other places (neither college town that I've lived in were on Google Maps, but both had wonderful, consistent bus systems with published routes and times.) I get that the transit companies have to do their part with this, but hopefully Apple finds a way.

rwilliams
Jun 5, 2012, 11:08 AM
While there's a chance that Apple's map solution will be better than Google's, I doubt it, and for that reason, I hope they allow Google Maps into the App Store as a standalone app.

funkybudda
Jun 5, 2012, 11:18 AM
Apple has also been doing this for years...in their R&D labs.

so Google has dont the R&D part longer than Apple, so...

edwurtle
Jun 5, 2012, 11:27 AM
unless they're including turn-by-turn navigation WHO CARES??

Of course they will include turn-by-turn. Apple always wanted turn-by-turn apart of maps app, but google refused to let them have it. I think that's one of the main reasons Apple decided to build their own.

Oletros
Jun 5, 2012, 11:29 AM
but google refused to let them have it

Any proof?

edwurtle
Jun 5, 2012, 11:39 AM
I for one support the effort, sheerly because TxT Directions are the only thing I miss from Android, and IMO the only serious item that IOS is lacking from an otherwise solid and performing platform (comparing basic functions anyway.)

My mother-in-law hated her android with a passion. She finally switched to iPhone and likes it very much. However she was shocked that iOS didn't include turn-by-turn. She almost switched back to android just for the TxT. I convinced her to just get a 3rd party TxT app.

kdarling
Jun 5, 2012, 11:40 AM
finnaly NO to Google and their data selling system

Neither Google nor Apple directly sell anyone's data. It's too valuable to them.

If you mean selling targeted ad space in Maps, then it's quite possible that Apple would do the same on their version with their own iAds system.

This is all about Apple wanting to be the ones to gather information and sell ad space, instead of allowing iOS devices to do that with Google with a small kickback.

edwurtle
Jun 5, 2012, 11:41 AM
Any proof?

I thought it was general knowledge.
Here's a recent article about the history of apple v google maps.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052702304543904577398502695522974-lMyQjAxMTAyMDAwNDEwNDQyWj.html

"Apple executives also wanted to include Google's turn-by-turn-navigation service in the iPhone—a feature popular with Android users because it lets people treat their phones as in-car GPS devices. Google wouldn't allow it, according to people on both sides. One of these people said Google viewed Apple's terms as unfair."

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2012, 11:43 AM
I thought it was general knowledge.
Here's a recent article about the history of apple v google maps.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052702304543904577398502695522974-lMyQjAxMTAyMDAwNDEwNDQyWj.html

"Apple executives also wanted to include Google's turn-by-turn-navigation service in the iPhone—a feature popular with Android users because it lets people treat their phones as in-car GPS devices. Google wouldn't allow it, according to people on both sides. One of these people said Google viewed Apple's terms as unfair."

Seems to me that contrary to what you're saying, it's not that Google was refusing Apple to implement turn by turn, seems to me Apple just wanted to do it in a way that wasn't acceptable to Google.

And your whole article seems like hearsay to me. "People on both sides", "One of these people", who are these people ?

edwurtle
Jun 5, 2012, 11:57 AM
Seems to me that contrary to what you're saying, it's not that Google was refusing Apple to implement turn by turn, seems to me Apple just wanted to do it in a way that wasn't acceptable to Google.


You might have a point. Either way google has gone to war with Apple and is not allowing them to have it. Here's another article:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/174577/is_new_google_nav_service_really_androidonly.html

Sounds as if Apple refused to allow Latitude to be integrated with maps app, so google took TxT away from them in retaliation.

However,
Has google given license to turn-by-turn to any other OS? No.

Has google released or attempted to release "Google Navigator" app in the iOS app store? No. If they wanted iPhones to have it, they could have just release it themselves.

danahn17
Jun 5, 2012, 12:05 PM
Has google given license to turn-by-turn to any other OS? No.

Has google released or attempted to release "Google Navigator" app in the iOS app store? No. If they wanted iPhones to have it, they could have just release it themselves.

Google is just holding it for android. It's a key selling point. Get android and get a free GPS all together.
While I agree that could be part of the story, I don't think the blame is solely on Google's side. Your article itself said that Google didn't agree to Apple's terms and therefore no deal.

Apple has been leveraging its popularity in negotiations which often leads to unfavorable deals (think Sprint). Plus, we know that Apple has made it difficult for things like Google Voice app to make it to the iPhone.

Again, I'm not saying this is all Apple's fault... but to say it's solely Google's fault is a little shortsighted IMO.

Bensalama21
Jun 5, 2012, 12:07 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already
They had to do it even if they thought they sucked compared to Google.

It's only a matter of time before google pulls the plug on iDevices and then iPhones wouldn't have a navigation app built in. Then what does apple do? They don't want to rely on their BIGGEST rival.

Compile 'em all
Jun 5, 2012, 12:41 PM
I agree 100%. It's not acceptable if some of its biggest features are only available in the USA.

A big advantage of Google Maps is the searching, I can find even the most unknown little shops, restaurants or companies in the most unknown places. Any alternative less powerful than that will be a huge disappointment.

You are right, Apple will release a downgrade to their maps app. :rolleyes:

ncaissie
Jun 5, 2012, 01:08 PM
finnaly NO to Google and their data selling system
Fanboys. :rolleyes:


You people don't realize that Google Maps has many years of Google and businesses registering their company information in the service as well as some nice photos of locations and Street view on top of that. I use the Map app all the time and this will be a huge letdown. Looks like I will have to use it through the browser instead. The Google street view car passed me twice today. Once in my truck and once when I was on foot.

ncaissie
Jun 5, 2012, 01:31 PM
About a week ago, I saw am unmarked street view surveying car not far from where I live. Was it Apple's? Who knows.

I seen one twice today and it clearly had Google with all the colours on the side.

vvswarup
Jun 5, 2012, 01:37 PM
When are Apple going to learn to work with other companies and use them to work with their strengths.

Disappointing that Apple see Google maps as a form of competition.

They will benefit nothing from this.

It's not Google maps that's a competitor. It's Google as a whole. Why should Apple line a competitor's pockets with cash?

----------

Yup...This is the same Apple from 1987...can't work with other businesses because of Apple's "My way or the highway" mentality.

So Apple is going to a)take away the most popular mapping system on the planet and replace it with some Apple-created one b)Apple really isn't in the mapping business and c)Apple is just digging itself deeper into the "only made by Apple" mentality that killed Apple in the late 80s through the mid 90s.

I still laugh so hard when Apple released the iPod and it was only compatible/available with Macs...you know, those machines owned by 0.1% of the world population back in 2001. Then Apple (Jobs actually, by all reports) finally agreed to port iTunes to Windows so the other 99+% of the world could use it and the rest is history. If Apple keeps believing the consumers are going to mindlessly buy Apple products that are 100% Apple, Apple's in for another crash.

Let's see what Google releases in a few days as part of their new map system...and what iOS users will not be able to enjoy.

Quit making this out to the NIH mentality. It has nothing to do with that. For that matter, Apple sources a lot components from other companies. Apple buys the 3G radio chips from Qualcomm. Apple's mobile processors are fabbed by Samsung.

I see this as Apple refusing to line a competitor's pockets with cash.

xero9
Jun 5, 2012, 01:38 PM
As others have joked, I could see Apple screwing anyone outside of the US on this. While I don't expect a big grey "US Only" curtain over say Canada example, I don't expect them to have as much detail as Google.

Couple of points.. One of the major pluses in my books for Google is the Map Maker ability. I mean how great it is that I can delete say a lake from Google's map, have it approved, and then see that change reflected in the Maps app.

The POI database is also HUGE. There is no way Apple could compete with that.

To the guy who said the app hasn't changed since the iPhone launched in 2007.. Who really cares. At the end of the day 95% of the app is the map data, and that's what counts. Who cares what the rest of the app looks like.

When I think of Apple releasing their own map app, all I can think about is the horrible map experience on my BlackBerry Bold.

scpt
Jun 5, 2012, 01:40 PM
Voice navigation with traffic update and basic map functionality all rolled into one App. is indeed worth looking forward to.

Right now I use Waze app for voice navigation & traffic updates and occasionally the Google map to get an idea of which direction in general to go.

mdelvecchio
Jun 5, 2012, 01:46 PM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

or make a cell pho--er, wait.

bawbac
Jun 5, 2012, 01:57 PM
When you use Apple iMap, locations and destinations searched will be recorded and sent to Apple to process your requests. Your device will also send Apple other information, such as your first name and nickname; the names, nicknames, and relationship with you (e.g., “my dad”) of your address book contacts; and (collectively, your “User Data”). All of this data is used to help Apple iMap understand you better and recognize what types of locations and destinations you prefer to visit. It is not linked to other data that Apple may have from your use of other Apple services(iAds, iCloud, etc.). By using Apple iMap, you agree and consent to Apple’s and its subsidiaries’ and agents’ transmission, collection, maintenance, processing, and use of this information, including your User Data, to provide and improve iMap and other Apple products and services.
:eek:

ncaissie
Jun 5, 2012, 02:03 PM
No one will hold a gun to your head, forcing you to upgrade...

I hate that typical response from people like you. When you spend almost $1000 on a device you want to get the most out of it. I don’t think Apple or any company would go far with that attitude.

John.B
Jun 5, 2012, 02:45 PM
Neither Google nor Apple directly sell anyone's data. It's too valuable to them.

If you mean selling targeted ad space in Maps, then it's quite possible that Apple would do the same on their version with their own iAds system.

They could, but I doubt Apple would. At least not the way Google Maps drops "Sponsored Link" ads right on top of the map itself (with no way to be turned off).

This is all about Apple wanting to be the ones to gather information and sell ad space, instead of allowing iOS devices to do that with Google with a small kickback.

We'll have to see how much ad space, if any, Apple deploys with their Maps app before we'll know for sure.

One thing that I think it's been pretty clear is that Google is a lot more promiscuous with the way they share user data with their advertisers than Apple ever has been.

The POI database is also HUGE. There is no way Apple could compete with that.

Maybe Apple could just scrape the Google POI database as a starting point? What's good for the goose...

wrinkster22
Jun 5, 2012, 02:48 PM
I hate to be a Grammar Nazi but:
"Apple Replacing Google Maps On iOS With Its Own Solution Later This Year"

Those letters should not be complicated, not sure about the others.

Oletros
Jun 5, 2012, 03:02 PM
I thought it was general knowledge.
Here's a recent article about the history of apple v google maps.

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10001424052702304543904577398502695522974-lMyQjAxMTAyMDAwNDEwNDQyWj.html

"Apple executives also wanted to include Google's turn-by-turn-navigation service in the iPhone—a feature popular with Android users because it lets people treat their phones as in-car GPS devices. Google wouldn't allow it, according to people on both sides. One of these people said Google viewed Apple's terms as unfair."

And this is not proof of nothing, perhaps of not reaching a deal between Apple and Google

edwurtle
Jun 5, 2012, 03:30 PM
And this is not proof of nothing, perhaps of not reaching a deal between Apple and Google

wow.. I didn't mean to start some feud.

The main point I was making was that Apple always wanted turn by turn. As for the reason it's not currently apart of the maps app, I don't really care.

Do people actually think Apple made a design decision to purposely exclude turn by turn (just because apple hated turn by turn concept)?

If they roll out there own map service, you can pretty much look forward to turn by turn navigation. If not directly in the maps app, at least a separate navigation app. Turn by turn is not hard to implement.

danahn17
Jun 5, 2012, 03:42 PM
It's not Google maps that's a competitor. It's Google as a whole. Why should Apple line a competitor's pockets with cash?

----------



Quit making this out to the NIH mentality. It has nothing to do with that. For that matter, Apple sources a lot components from other companies. Apple buys the 3G radio chips from Qualcomm. Apple's mobile processors are fabbed by Samsung.

I see this as Apple refusing to line a competitor's pockets with cash.
You do know that the mobile processors Apple gets from Samsung is lining the pockets of a competitor...

You can work with a competitor and still derive some mutual benefit (if both sides are willing). It doesn't have to be a my-way-or-the-highway approach. That's why the Google maps app was in iOS to begin with. And why the Youtube (still part of Google) app is still there. Elsewhere, companies like Olympus and Panasonic worked together to bring about a new camera form (micro 4/3).

Unfortunately, it seems like many here take the "if you're not for us, you're against us" approach. And Apple too has decided to take a more hardline approach with working with others in its field.

aristotle
Jun 5, 2012, 03:46 PM
:eek:
That is standard boiler plate privacy policy stuff. How do you expect to get information about where you are without divulging any information?

How do you expect location services on "wifi" to work without some crowd sourcing of data? Wifi only devices have to rely on information in Apple's databases and that has to be collected somehow by Apple from 3G enabled devices with Wifi turned on. Apple uses a combination of data collected about nearby wifi hotspots correlated with GPS co-ordinates from 3G/4G enabled devices to provide approximate location info for wifi only iPads and iPod Touches.

kdarling
Jun 5, 2012, 04:09 PM
One thing that I think it's been pretty clear is that Google is a lot more promiscuous with the way they share user data with their advertisers than Apple ever has been.

I can't think of any instance that Google shares identifiable user data. Got an example?

As pointed out above, why would they? That info is their bread and butter, same as the personal info and preferences that Apple collects via our iTunes accounts, etc.

Neither Apple nor Google ever want to directly share their info about us. They keep it private and use it to pick the most appropriate ad to serve us out of the list the advertiser gives them. The advertiser is out of the loop as far as our personal info goes for serving ads.

Google also allows people to edit their ad profile, or opt out partially or totally. Use Google Dashboard (https://www.google.com/dashboard/) and Google Ad Preferences (http://www.google.com/ads/preferences/)or download a Google Ad Opt Out plugin for your browser.

KnightWRX
Jun 5, 2012, 04:39 PM
It's not Google maps that's a competitor. It's Google as a whole. Why should Apple line a competitor's pockets with cash?

Because petty politics don't belong in good business operations. Competition is friendly. Play to your strengths. Google's is online services, Apple's is systems. It makes sense to combine both. There's going to be overlap for sure at some point, but don't let that get into a game of "us vs them".

Let the people on Internet forums fight the "us vs them" fight.

Many players in other industries compete and yet collaborate. The car industry is rife with collaborations amongst competitors. They exchange parts/designs all the time. The computer industry is the same. HP has their own OS, yet they also offer the competition's OS products for their hardware, and their storage solutions can plug into Dell/Oracle/IBM hardware without any problems.

Competition doesn't have to mean cutting out all collaboration.

----------

Apple's mobile processors are fabbed by Samsung.

I see this as Apple refusing to line a competitor's pockets with cash.

These 2 statements are contradictory.

Let's wait and see what Apple and Google both have to offer, if they even have something to offer, before we judge if this move was made out of spite or out of real technical/design merit.

bawbac
Jun 5, 2012, 05:16 PM
That is standard boiler plate privacy policy stuff. How do you expect to get information about where you are without divulging any information?

How do you expect location services on "wifi" to work without some crowd sourcing of data? Wifi only devices have to rely on information in Apple's databases and that has to be collected somehow by Apple from 3G enabled devices with Wifi turned on. Apple uses a combination of data collected about nearby wifi hotspots correlated with GPS co-ordinates from 3G/4G enabled devices to provide approximate location info for wifi only iPads and iPod Touches.

Hum... odd that my TomTom doesn't ask me for any personal info for data mining to get me to places.

aristotle
Jun 5, 2012, 05:32 PM
Hum... odd that my TomTom doesn't ask me for any personal info for data mining to get me to places.
Your TOMTOM relies on a GPS chip which is slower and potentially less accurate in some places whereas Apple's location services relies on a combination of GPS, cellular tower triangulation and wifi hotspots within range if you have a device with a 3G or LTE radio whereas a Wifi device has to rely on wifi hotspot triangulation using location collected by Apple from devices with Wifi turned on and a 3G or LTE radio with a GPS chip.

If you don't want to "share" with other users then you should stick to TOMTOM but then don't expect accurate location data if you cannot get a GPS signal.
:rolleyes:

Tuckrat
Jun 5, 2012, 06:49 PM
That's the "old fashioned" theme for iPhoto, the real maps app won't look like that.

I hope you are right. The maps shown with this article and elsewhere are plain fugly!

bawbac
Jun 5, 2012, 06:57 PM
Your TOMTOM relies on a GPS chip which is slower and potentially less accurate in some places whereas Apple's location services relies on a combination of GPS, cellular tower triangulation and wifi hotspots within range if you have a device with a 3G or LTE radio whereas a Wifi device has to rely on wifi hotspot triangulation using location collected by Apple from devices with Wifi turned on and a 3G or LTE radio with a GPS chip.

If you don't want to "share" with other users then you should stick to TOMTOM but then don't expect accurate location data if you cannot get a GPS signal.
:rolleyes:
What does my personal contacts have to be used to find locations? :confused:
I guess you do as you are told and not question the personal info retrieved that has nothing to do with map locating services.

Apple only needs to know my phones location to assist in finding what I ask, not other personal info. It seems you are blind to allowing apple get whatever they ask of you without justification on the true intent of use of the info retrieved.

MaSx
Jun 5, 2012, 07:05 PM
I don't see how Apple can do better than Google Map but if they can pull it off, by any means, I'm totally okay with it since it will bring more competition to the table. Mind you, I'd hate to lose Google Map on my iPhone if their Map turns out to be lame, which is unlikely!

Risco
Jun 5, 2012, 07:30 PM
Mapping on is overrated, so long as it is functional, accurate and intergrates well with third party apps along with a little Apple customisation, then I see no reason why losing Google will be an issue.

vvswarup
Jun 5, 2012, 08:51 PM
Because petty politics don't belong in good business operations. Competition is friendly. Play to your strengths. Google's is online services, Apple's is systems. It makes sense to combine both. There's going to be overlap for sure at some point, but don't let that get into a game of "us vs them".

Let the people on Internet forums fight the "us vs them" fight.

Many players in other industries compete and yet collaborate. The car industry is rife with collaborations amongst competitors. They exchange parts/designs all the time. The computer industry is the same. HP has their own OS, yet they also offer the competition's OS products for their hardware, and their storage solutions can plug into Dell/Oracle/IBM hardware without any problems.

Competition doesn't have to mean cutting out all collaboration.

Your examples don't apply at all. The examples you provide relate to interoperability. HP makes their own OS but make their products compatible with competing products. That's not the case with maps. Apple relies on Google's backend to provide maps, which is lining a competitor's pockets with cash. This has nothing to do with collaboration.
----------



These 2 statements are contradictory.

Let's wait and see what Apple and Google both have to offer, if they even have something to offer, before we judge if this move was made out of spite or out of real technical/design merit.

I was responding to a claim that Apple has an NIH attitude, which they don't. Apple contracts with others for things they don't do well, like manufacturing. Apple isn't good at doing manufacturing so they contract it out. Apple is, however, good at designing the hardware so they do that rather than license out the OS.

danahn17
Jun 5, 2012, 09:31 PM
Hum... odd that my TomTom doesn't ask me for any personal info for data mining to get me to places.

Maybe so... but when you go to your favorite online or brick&mortar store to buy your TomTom, you can be sure that they are keeping track of your purchases and buying habits and potentially mailing you customized ads. Those keyfobs to give you discounts at your grocery? Again, tracking your purchases (you don't even need one for them to track your purchases though). And your credit/debit cards you used? You bet Amex, Visa, MasterCard, etc are all peeking at it.

Don't believe me? Check out this Forbes article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/).

jcpb
Jun 5, 2012, 09:38 PM
Call me when it has offline maps capability, otherwise I don't care.

aristotle
Jun 5, 2012, 10:48 PM
What does my personal contacts have to be used to find locations? :confused:
I guess you do as you are told and not question the personal info retrieved that has nothing to do with map locating services.

Apple only needs to know my phones location to assist in finding what I ask, not other personal info. It seems you are blind to allowing apple get whatever they ask of you without justification on the true intent of use of the info retrieved.
If you have an iPhone 4S and want to use the geo-fence feature of the Reminders app, then Apple would have not know the "address" of a particular contact. For example, I have my "work" and "home" addresses listed in my contacts so I can ask Siri to remind me to do something when I leave work, arrive at work or arrive home. I could also siri how to get to a contacts house if I was in the US at the time or if searching for locations worked in Canada.

Nobody is forcing you to use those features if you are so paranoid.

Listen pal, if the CIA or NSA wanted to know where you were, they would not need to ask Apple for help.

John.B
Jun 5, 2012, 11:57 PM
Google also allows people to edit their ad profile, or opt out partially or totally. Use Google Dashboard (https://www.google.com/dashboard/) and Google Ad Preferences (http://www.google.com/ads/preferences/)or download a Google Ad Opt Out plugin for your browser.

Interestingly, only if you log in to Google. At which point, you're left to trust they'll do what they say they will. Knowing the games they've been playing recently in bypassing browser security settings (http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-57379931-281/wsj-google-tricked-apples-safari-in-order-to-track-users/?tag=mncol;txt), I'll pass. I'd rather put my trust in my favorite ad blocker subscription, thank you very much.

Because petty politics don't belong in good business operations. Competition is friendly. Play to your strengths. Google's is online services, Apple's is systems.

These 2 statements are contradictory. :p

Or did you miss the Google acquisition of Motorola Mobility (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57438223-93/google-to-close-motorola-mobility-deal-by-wednesday/)?

KnightWRX
Jun 6, 2012, 03:58 AM
Your examples don't apply at all. The examples you provide relate to interoperability. HP makes their own OS but make their products compatible with competing products. That's not the case with maps. Apple relies on Google's backend to provide maps, which is lining a competitor's pockets with cash. This has nothing to do with collaboration.


How does GM buying engines from Honda for what was the Saturn Vue V6 (when GM does have V6 engines of its own design) relate to interoperability ? :confused:

How does HP providing Windows for the Proliant server line relate to interoperability when they have their own OS for their Integrity server line ?

How doesn't those examples "line competitor's pockets with cash" through collaboration that wasn't necessary ?

The simple fact is : Google is good at back-end stuff, Apple is good at front end stuff. This seems to be a move made out of spite rather than actual technical merit for now. There is nothing wrong with competitors collaborating.


I was responding to a claim that Apple has an NIH attitude, which they don't. Apple contracts with others for things they don't do well, like manufacturing. Apple isn't good at doing manufacturing so they contract it out. Apple is, however, good at designing the hardware so they do that rather than license out the OS.

But Apple has not been good at doing Cloud services up to now, maybe they should contract with others with expertise in the field. ;)

Apple does tend to have a NIH attitude about many things (DLNA vs Airplay, ALAC vs FLAC, mDP vs DP, etc..).

----------

These 2 statements are contradictory. :p

They are ? 1 statement was about Google's strength, the other was about Apple's strength. How does Google being good at online services contradict Apple being good at systems ?

If I get your line of thinking here, you're saying that if Apple can be good at systems, Google can't be good at online services and vice versa ?

I'm not getting the contradiction here... care to explain what you meant if you even meant something ?

Or did you miss the Google acquisition of Motorola Mobility (http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57438223-93/google-to-close-motorola-mobility-deal-by-wednesday/)?

No, I didn't miss Google's massive patent acquisition after they failed at the Nortel patent bid. Or did you think Google primary interest in Motorola was devices ? Look at the price per patent in both the Nortel acquisition vs the Motorola Mobility acquisition, you'll find that Google got the device business essentially for free. ;)

The Phazer
Jun 6, 2012, 06:43 AM
And this could end up better for everyone...Google may be allowed to implement their own GMaps standalone app, which means we get more than a yearly update. Plus it means more new features all around because of the increased competition.

But a standalone application has massive disadvantages because of iOS restricting competition. There's no way to set it as a default for the rest of the OS, so links will constantly take you to the crappy Apple maps application.

bawbac
Jun 6, 2012, 09:30 AM
Maybe so... but when you go to your favorite online or brick&mortar store to buy your TomTom, you can be sure that they are keeping track of your purchases and buying habits and potentially mailing you customized ads. Those keyfobs to give you discounts at your grocery? Again, tracking your purchases (you don't even need one for them to track your purchases though). And your credit/debit cards you used? You bet Amex, Visa, MasterCard, etc are all peeking at it.

Don't believe me? Check out this Forbes article (http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/).

Since when did Target, Walmart or other B&M stores start asking for personal info when I make a purchase?:confused:
I've never received any customized coupons from any store in the mail. They usually provide these at check out IF I use a keyfob at their store.

You don't have to provide a name or real phone # to use one of those discount keyfobs. I should know, I have plenty with an alias name+phone#. :)

Debit cards. I guess you got me there but the bank already has my personal info and they send me privacy info about once every 6 months to let me know what they do with the data.
Unlike apple where they silently reach in to your personal data and gather it for their use or sharing with their partners. Viewing map data does not require downloading personal contacts, friends or other non related items off your device. This is a bold attemp at covert data mining.

Apple counts on their user base to not read the privacy disclosure in which on page 28 of a 30 page document they state their intent, which most people don't even get past the first sentence.

KnightWRX
Jun 6, 2012, 09:37 AM
Since when did Target, Walmart or other B&M stores start asking for personal info when I make a purchase?:confused:

Started around 10 years ago as far as I've noticed. Started small, "What's your postal code" and then more and more information. These days, I show them the proverbial middle finger, pay and get out.

bawbac
Jun 6, 2012, 09:40 AM
If you have an iPhone 4S and want to use the geo-fence feature of the Reminders app, then Apple would have not know the "address" of a particular contact. For example, I have my "work" and "home" addresses listed in my contacts so I can ask Siri to remind me to do something when I leave work, arrive at work or arrive home. I could also siri how to get to a contacts house if I was in the US at the time or if searching for locations worked in Canada.

Nobody is forcing you to use those features if you are so paranoid.

Listen pal, if the CIA or NSA wanted to know where you were, they would not need to ask Apple for help.
The issue is not the government agencies asking PRIVATE corps for personal info.
It's Apple using it to profile a consumer & gather information for the sole purpose of capitalizing on selling it or solicite people in your contacts, which you agreed to in their privacy disclosure without even knowing it because of the creative statements they write to not expose their true intent with your personal info.

Fizzoid
Jun 6, 2012, 11:07 AM
Agreed, I think one of the best features in Google Maps is its street view functionality. That and the fact that they have a huge database of places/businesses, which make finding restaurants, bars etc. much faster and easier.

I also hope that Apple considers the rest of the world. Siri's limitations to finding places in the US only has many Europeans (and the rest of the world) frustrated. So building up a truly international mapping service is a big challenge. I hope they can find some kind of open solution, like open maps, which can improve the service through users.

I know having "open" and "Apple" in the same sentence is a bit shocking or wishful thinking, but one can always dream!

Indeed, Apple's slow uptake on the fact there's a world outside the US may mean limited service for "the rest of the world" :rolleyes:

danahn17
Jun 6, 2012, 11:10 AM
Since when did Target, Walmart or other B&M stores start asking for personal info when I make a purchase?:confused:
I've never received any customized coupons from any store in the mail.

The linked article said "Target assigns every customer a Guest ID number, tied to their credit card, name, or email address that becomes a bucket that stores a history of everything they’ve bought and any demographic information Target has collected from them or bought from other sources."

You might have gotten customized coupons but just didn't notice it! The article also said that the customized coupons are now designed not to freak out customers who think the company may be spying on them: “Then we started mixing in all these ads for things we knew pregnant women would never buy, so the baby ads looked random. We’d put an ad for a lawn mower next to diapers. We’d put a coupon for wineglasses next to infant clothes. That way, it looked like all the products were chosen by chance."

I suppose you are right though.... if you take the right steps, you can probably avoid getting mined for data from stores. But unfortunately, it's getting more and more difficult to do so it seems. :(

DougB541
Jun 6, 2012, 11:16 AM
I'd assume Google Maps would have a separate app in the App Store.

I'd say a first goal would be to match Bing Maps, which i think is strong, if not the strongest competitor in mapping right now (though apparently international is its biggest weakness, but they are getting new data from Nokia).

Google Maps is really tough to beat though.

Winter Charm
Jun 6, 2012, 11:32 AM
Don't see how Apple can think to beat Google who has been doing this very well for years already

C3 is apparently also really good at maps. That's why apple bought them. Because, yes, without C3, they had no hope of being able to compete with Google in maps.

Now, the tables have turned.

Also, Apple needs to give us a Siri-Enabled Turn by Turn GPS as part of the maps app. It's a crying shame we don't have those features already.

----------

The linked article said "Target assigns every customer a Guest ID number, tied to their credit card, name, or email address that becomes a bucket that stores a history of everything they’ve bought and any demographic information Target has collected from them or bought from other sources."

You might have gotten customized coupons but just didn't notice it! The article also said that the customized coupons are now designed not to freak out customers who think the company may be spying on them: “Then we started mixing in all these ads for things we knew pregnant women would never buy, so the baby ads looked random. We’d put an ad for a lawn mower next to diapers. We’d put a coupon for wineglasses next to infant clothes. That way, it looked like all the products were chosen by chance."

I suppose you are right though.... if you take the right steps, you can probably avoid getting mined for data from stores. But unfortunately, it's getting more and more difficult to do so it seems. :(

Data mining by businesses isn't a bad thing. It saves us money. The "bad" part is if the data isn't stored securely, or handed to the government.

kdarling
Jun 6, 2012, 11:33 AM
But a standalone application has massive disadvantages because of iOS restricting competition. There's no way to set it as a default for the rest of the OS, so links will constantly take you to the crappy Apple maps application.

This is also exactly why people should not directly compare Android and iOS update frequency.

Android devices get constant Google Maps updates, and because such apps are allowed to register themselves as info sources and targets, they are automatically integrated with all other apps that call for any map functionality.

OTOH, iOS requires an OS update for any new integrated functionality. Just updating a standalone app won't do it.

It's Apple using it to profile a consumer & gather information for the sole purpose of capitalizing on selling it or solicite people in your contacts, which you agreed to in their privacy disclosure without even knowing it because of the creative statements they write to not expose their true intent with your personal info.

I think it's interesting that Google and Apple make money off our info, yet do not always give us a quid pro quo. (A free app in exchange for ads does count as payment.)

With only a bit of tongue in cheek, I think Apple and Google should pay us each time we contribute to the crowd sourcing of of their WiFi and Cell databases... from which they make money via Location Based Services.

It's like when car dealers try to stick their name on the back of your new/used car. No sir, not without paying me for the advertising!

;)

Piggie
Jun 6, 2012, 12:14 PM
Just as Google are announcing all their new mapping tech. :D

kjs862
Jun 6, 2012, 06:53 PM
Why would you think that a third party map app would be more integrated than Apple's own map app that they have been working on for years?

Because if you go to google.com and search a place a map will come up in Google's search results. Is Apple's map going to do that, I don't think so.

the read
Jun 7, 2012, 11:07 AM
[QUOTE=vvswarup;14965116]It's not Google maps that's a competitor. It's Google as a whole. Why should Apple line a competitor's pockets with cash?[COLOR="#808080"]

Hi vvswarup,

Can I ask a favour. It might be best if you don't read my posts. Your obviously to narrow minded to understand what progression and callaboration can achieve.
I,m wandering, do you have an Apple logo tattooed on your forehead?

macbookflasher
Jun 8, 2012, 03:10 AM
it will not work and apple can not beat Google

\-V-/
Jun 8, 2012, 03:21 AM
it will not work and apple can not beat Google

What won't work? Their maps? Seriously?

MappingPro
Jun 10, 2012, 01:39 PM
Of course they will include turn-by-turn. Apple always wanted turn-by-turn apart of maps app, but google refused to let them have it. I think that's one of the main reasons Apple decided to build their own.

Google claims that is is Apple that will not allow them to add features like turn by turn to Maps. I am hoping that by dropping Google Maps we will be able to get the same features that Android gets from Google. Even if it costs I will gladly pay. I have been in the mapping game for more than 40 years and I say it is not so easy to just make a Google Maps or Earth. Google maps predate mobil by many years, Apple has a big hill to climb.

IBradMac
Jun 10, 2012, 01:51 PM
I'll be mad if it sucks.