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MacRumors
Jun 5, 2012, 09:16 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/05/belkin-upgrades-thunderbolt-express-dock-with-usb-3-0-and-esata-bumps-price-to-399-99/)


Back in January, Belkin officially unveiled (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/01/09/ces-2012-belkin-thunderbolt-express-dock-to-launch-in-september-at-299/) its Thunderbolt Express Dock, a single-cable hub priced at $299.99 and offering a variety of USB, Ethernet, and FireWire ports to provide easy desktop expandability for portable machines. But with the product not scheduled to ship until September, Belkin left itself with plenty of time to continue tweaking its design and today announced that it has revised the specs (http://www.belkin.com/pressRoom/releases/uploads/ThunderboltCableDock_060512.html) to boost the previous USB 2.0 ports to USB 3.0, as well as add new eSATA and audio in ports. The company has also announced a one-meter Thunderbolt cable to aid in connectivity.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/belkin_thunderbolt_dock_revised_back.jpg

"As more hardware companies announce plans to incorporate Intel's Thunderbolt technology into their products, we aim to create quality accessories that take advantage of Thunderbolt's blazing fast speeds and other benefits," said Martin Avilla, general manager of Belkin's core business unit. "Over the past few months, we have really listened to our end users and created a one-meter cable and refined the dock to make it an even better desktop solution, which we believe will make Belkin a go-to provider for Thunderbolt accessories when they launch in the summer and fall."Belkin's improvements to the Thunderbolt Express Dock come with a cost, however, as the retail price has risen from the previous $299.99 to $399.99. The Thunderbolt cable will run an additional $44.99.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/belkin_thunderbolt_dock_revised_front.jpg


Belkin is holding firm on its plans to launch the Thunderbolt Express Dock in September, with the Thunderbolt cable making its debut next month.

Just a few days ago, Matrox announced its own Thunderbolt docking station (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/03/matrox-announces-ds-1-thunderbolt-docking-station-for-249/) priced at $249. The Matrox DS-1 has only one USB 3.0 port alongside a pair of USB 2.0 ports, and also lacks FireWire and eSATA ports while providing video output via DVI rather than HDMI. Perhaps most importantly, Matrox's solution does not include a second Thunderbolt port for passthrough, meaning that the docking station must be placed at the end of any daisy-chained peripheral setup.

Still, with the price difference between the Matrox and Belkin solutions increasing from $50 to $150 with the price increase on the Belkin dock, the Matrox product may prove more appealing for many customers.

Apple also essentially offers a Thunderbolt docking station built into its $999 27-inch Thunderbolt display. Apple's display offers three USB 2.0 ports, a Gigabit Ethernet port, a FireWire 800 port, a FaceTime HD camera, and a 2.1 speaker system, all connected to the user's computer over a single Thunderbolt cable.

Article Link: Belkin Upgrades Thunderbolt Express Dock with USB 3.0 and eSATA, Bumps Price to $399.99 (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/05/belkin-upgrades-thunderbolt-express-dock-with-usb-3-0-and-esata-bumps-price-to-399-99/)



KPOM
Jun 5, 2012, 09:17 AM
It was already too expensive at $299. At $399 I doubt it will sell well. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see USB 3.0 on the next Apple Thunderbolt Display. Why not just get that for $600 more, or even a Mac Mini for $200 more?

Simplicated
Jun 5, 2012, 09:20 AM
Really, who pays $400 for a hub without a cable included, which brings the total price to at least $450.

DrKockter
Jun 5, 2012, 09:20 AM
cool but...400 bucks? no thanks

samac92
Jun 5, 2012, 09:21 AM
I'd buy it for £39.99

madrag
Jun 5, 2012, 09:21 AM
at least this one has two TB ports and one FW800 and many USB3 (Matrox doesn't), but it is soooo pricey :(

D.T.
Jun 5, 2012, 09:21 AM
$299 +with+ the USB 3.0 ports would’ve been a decent price/port/performance ratio (not factoring in the eSATA addition).

~$450 with the cable factored in? Heck, I’ll just take a 27” TB display for another $550. :)

Digital Skunk
Jun 5, 2012, 09:23 AM
Really, who pays $400 for a hub and even without a cable.

Exactly! It was fine at the $300 price point, but now they really should just include the cable as well to help sweeten the deal.

It was already too expensive at $299. At $399 I doubt it will sell well. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see USB 3.0 on the next Apple Thunderbolt Display. Why not just get that for $600 more, or even a Mac Mini for $200 more?

Spending $600 more for a TBolt display is moronic. Why complain about the price then spend 2.5x as much just to spite a company?

Getting a MacMini makes no sense either . . . because it's another computer that won't act as a hub.

MacRumorUser
Jun 5, 2012, 09:23 AM
Looks great. Looks at price. Walks away :( :o


That is 40% the retail price of macbook air. Ouch! Hard Sell.

RawBert
Jun 5, 2012, 09:25 AM
400 bucks? What are they smokin'?

NutsNGum
Jun 5, 2012, 09:25 AM
Double no thanks.

azentropy
Jun 5, 2012, 09:27 AM
+1 to all the posts saying the price is too high.

dysamoria
Jun 5, 2012, 09:27 AM
It was unacceptable at $300. Now it's just offensive.

This kind of pricing will kill thunderbolt. I'm unaware of any other interface that was this costly to the end user.

Cynicalone
Jun 5, 2012, 09:28 AM
These prices are going to kill Thunderbolt.

nilk
Jun 5, 2012, 09:29 AM
If this had a KVM built in with the right features (e.g. you could connect multiple computers and switch between them, and route which ones use which ports, so that, for example, the hard drive stays connected to specific machine), then I might be interested. Reason why is that Displayport KVMs are pretty expensive, and I'm manually switching cables these days, so if it offered that there would be enough value in it for me.

But otherwise, this is way too expensive, and I would either play the waiting game, look at alternatives, or get an Apple Thunderbolt Display. Though the Apple display would have to have enough value compared to the cost of other 27" 2560x1440 displays combined with the hub to make it worth while. The main advantage is being able to daisy chain multiple monitors. Personally, I prefer 30" 2560x1600 monitors. These hubs need to add multiple DisplayPort ports, so you can do e.g. more than one 30" 2560x1600 monitors, and be able to use pre-Thunderbolt displays.

troop231
Jun 5, 2012, 09:31 AM
Hopefully a manufacturer is watching and can make something similar for 1/2 to 1/4 of the cost and sell tons of these things. I would want one myself!

DoFoT9
Jun 5, 2012, 09:32 AM
These prices are going to kill Thunderbolt.

I agree. This pricing is ridiculous. Honestly.... How stupid. $100 is overpriced.

ghostface147
Jun 5, 2012, 09:33 AM
I'm still waiting for a company to have a thunderbolt portable hard drive. None of those expensive raid arrays, just a simple 1 terabyte drive I can use for time machine.

Digital Skunk
Jun 5, 2012, 09:33 AM
These prices are going to kill Thunderbolt.

I wouldn't go that far.

The $300 was a very nice price for it to be honest. TBolt is still going to ask for a premium price given the age of the tech. Now, add in eSATA, FW800, USB3.0, an additional TBolt port and $300 isn't bad at all.

The LaCie eSATA hub is $250 for just two TBolts and two eSATA ports. $50 more and you get a splattering of connections. Now, price it at $400 and you are just asking for users to find cheaper alternatives.

The TBolt, SSD, and other non-mainstream tech will come down in price as they become more mainstream. Besides,

duxy
Jun 5, 2012, 09:34 AM
Belkin-Shmelkin. This one's a fail.

Wrathwitch
Jun 5, 2012, 09:34 AM
Great another overpriced thunderbolt accessory offering the basic ports that mobile computers should have in the first place.

Colour me impressed.... not.

DJC631
Jun 5, 2012, 09:35 AM
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZMWqh-NxqM8ePp5mv8sVvKu3fBrsGq8NuxPa3-deMcgz-lNtUNbQeVxhL

tigres
Jun 5, 2012, 09:35 AM
Thunderbolt and belkin don't mix

martinm0
Jun 5, 2012, 09:35 AM
For the love of god, why $399 (or $450-$500 for that matter)? Mind as well buy a new Mac Mini and have two machines for that kind of money.

Ted13
Jun 5, 2012, 09:35 AM
Might as well just buy an Apple Cinema Display at that price -- I'd gladly trade the eSata port for a gorgeous 27" screen....

iScott428
Jun 5, 2012, 09:36 AM
850$ for a refurb Thunderbolt Display is sounding like a really good deal now. Or if Apple refreshes the Mini with two Thunderbolt ports, that will be another good option. But 400$$$ that better come with a 2TB HD and cable. Goodness

DoFoT9
Jun 5, 2012, 09:36 AM
I wouldn't go that far.

The $300 was a very nice price for it to be honest. TBolt is still going to ask for a premium price given the age of the tech. Now, add in eSATA, FW800, USB3.0, an additional TBolt port and $300 isn't bad at all.

The LaCie eSATA hub is $250 for just two TBolts and two eSATA ports. $50 more and you get a splattering of connections. Now, price it at $400 and you are just asking for users to find cheaper alternatives.

The TBolt, SSD, and other non-mainstream tech will come down in price as they become more mainstream. Besides,

i disagree - because, really, how many people (percentage wise) will require such a device? pro-sumers, more or less. sub 1% market share of total mac users (and maybe a few idiots that dont _really_ need it?)....

i mean honestly, it's already $1,000+ for even a small TB enclosure, then this, then your TB displays, yada - it's another mac (which i'd rather have!)

Mad Mac Maniac
Jun 5, 2012, 09:41 AM
Don't flame. I don't really understand the purpose of these docking stations... (and thunderbold in general really) simply to add more USB and other ports? What needs to be connected? Professional peripherals and accessories? And why is thunderbolt so necessary? I know it transfers data much faster, but unless you are transfering GB of data what's the point? What difference does a thunderbolt display even make? It's not going to display the monitor any faster or anything...

Don't just say "obviously this product isn't for you". I would actually like to learn the purpose.

Cynicalone
Jun 5, 2012, 09:41 AM
I wouldn't go that far.

The $300 was a very nice price for it to be honest. TBolt is still going to ask for a premium price given the age of the tech. Now, add in eSATA, FW800, USB3.0, an additional TBolt port and $300 isn't bad at all.

The LaCie eSATA hub is $250 for just two TBolts and two eSATA ports. $50 more and you get a splattering of connections. Now, price it at $400 and you are just asking for users to find cheaper alternatives.

The TBolt, SSD, and other non-mainstream tech will come down in price as they become more mainstream. Besides,

Perhaps killing it is going to far, but it will never be anything more then FW400/800 at these prices.

If Apple adds USB 3 this year to the Mac lineup then Thunderbolt is all but dead to the average consumer that Apple targets.

gibbo132
Jun 5, 2012, 09:42 AM
Dell Ultrasharp 27" Monitor $899, Belkin dock $399. Total of $1298.

Apple Thunderbolt Display with dock $999. Easy choice, nice design, good screen! Belkin really needs to rethink their pricing!

d0vr
Jun 5, 2012, 09:42 AM
So this doesn't have a HDMI port anymore? I was really hoping I could use the HDMI port, and connect a display via the TB/mDP out...

Blipp
Jun 5, 2012, 09:44 AM
Dammit...

I want this product. I'd love the ability to plug in all of my peripherals with one cable and take advantage of USB 3 while the cost of Thunderbolt drives are still too high. This even looks significantly better than the other TB docks we've seen.

Then there's the price...

At $250 I'd probably have bit the bullet and bought one for my girlfriend and I. As it stands there is no way in hell I could justify this purchase even if I was willing to pay it. Add that it doesn't even come with the cable and it becomes laughable.

bungiefan89
Jun 5, 2012, 09:45 AM
It was too expensive at $300... now they want $400 + $45 for a cable?

I do not understand this product at all. It's just an unfinished computer! The price is almost there, and it has the ports of a modern computer, but the makers left out the screen, HDD/SSD, CPU, GPU, RAM, keyboard, and mouse.

WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!? :confused:

JAT
Jun 5, 2012, 09:48 AM
"Belkin Upgrades..."?

Was the first version shipping yet? Are any of these shipping, yet? Besides Apple's display.

applesith
Jun 5, 2012, 09:48 AM
$100 max!!

notta
Jun 5, 2012, 09:49 AM
They should fire whoever came up with that price. People are not going to pay that.

salmoally
Jun 5, 2012, 09:49 AM
Laughable pricing. I hope they make millions of these expecting them to sell like hotcakes but only end up shifting about 10.

diddl14
Jun 5, 2012, 09:54 AM
Reading trough the comments so far, it sounds like Apple is going to sell a couple more Thunderbolt Displays :cool:

ipmasta
Jun 5, 2012, 09:55 AM
I understand new technology is going to be pricey, but this is ridiculous. How about making something smaller like a thunderbolt to 3 port usb 3.0 hub? I mean I would drop around $100 bucks on a thunderbolt accessory - but whats the point of thunderbolt if its going to take 5 years for accessories to be affordable?

nwcs
Jun 5, 2012, 09:55 AM
I wonder if the $399 is the MSRP and it'll be less than that on the street?

Apple Corps
Jun 5, 2012, 09:58 AM
Time will tell, but at this time Thunderbolt is looking like a bag of hurt.

Laco
Jun 5, 2012, 09:59 AM
This is why I hate thunderbolt, ALL of its accessories/drives are too expensive. I hope the next Macbooks have USB 3.0!

Rot'nApple
Jun 5, 2012, 09:59 AM
$299 +with+ the USB 3.0 ports would’ve been a decent price/port/performance ratio (not factoring in the eSATA addition).

~$450 with the cable factored in? Heck, I’ll just take a 27” TB display for another $550. :)

Viewing some of the other prices for various 27" monitor models, if you purchased an 27" Apple thunderbolt display, aren't you basically already doing that? :eek::rolleyes:
/
/
/

Newfiebill
Jun 5, 2012, 10:00 AM
The price issue is one BIGGIE, but on another side, has anyone really studied the Design of this thing? Why would I want a TB cable sticking out the front of this thing on my desk. I mean really couldn't this port be put in the back with the rest of the cable ports. I really think that the astectic design of this monister is very poor in real world use on a desk.

ellaimac
Jun 5, 2012, 10:00 AM
I personally think that TB docks and storage should be cheaper to really battle wit cloud storage.

olowott
Jun 5, 2012, 10:01 AM
Come on guys, I mean we just spent nothing less than 1000 in dollars or Quid
in one :apple: way or the other

and u want us to shell out $399.99:mad: ..............sorry but u aint :apple: branded :p

BiggAW
Jun 5, 2012, 10:01 AM
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Let me explain. The value of thunderbolt is to have the bandwidth to run multiple monitors without USB adapters, which no one has introduced yet. I don't mind plugging in a couple of extra cables, but I won't even have to, just with USB 2.

I already hub all my peripherals through a cheap USB hub. I will be getting another one, and in my future setup, two of my monitors, my external drives, a DAC for audio out, and an 802.11ac adapter will all be running off of USB, so I will be getting the same functionality for a fraction of the price.

I guess this thing would sort of help me out with the extra monitors by allowing the use of USB 3, but $400 for this thing (grab the cable from Monoprice for $5) just isn't worth it to un-bottleneck USB.

Of course, it's a nice option to have if I tap both 480mbps USB ports, and they are still too bottlenecked, but I'm hoping something cheaper comes along. Heck, taking the network off of USB and using a gigabit to 802.11ac bridge would be cheaper than this too.

I can see this being useful for a very small subset of people who really need external disk bandwidth for video editing and other digital content creation, but for the other 99%, a USB hub or two will do the trick for a lot less.

JHankwitz
Jun 5, 2012, 10:04 AM
UGH! At this price it should include FireWire 800 and two Thunderbolt connections.

firestarter
Jun 5, 2012, 10:04 AM
I'm still waiting for a company to have a thunderbolt portable hard drive. None of those expensive raid arrays, just a simple 1 terabyte drive I can use for time machine.

Forget it. As soon as the Mac supports USB3, everyone is going to forget about Thunderbolt as a hard drive standard especially for single disks.

akm3
Jun 5, 2012, 10:07 AM
Really, who pays $400 for a hub without a cable included, which brings the total price to at least $450.

Someone who already owns the $50 cable?

Azathoth
Jun 5, 2012, 10:08 AM
Thunderbolt - when is the last time that a technology promised so much and delivered so little?

I bought the MBA2011 hoping that Thunderbolt would not be the fiasco that it's shaping up to be - would be great to have a 50 USD Gigabit adapter or a 50 USD FW800 adapter, but Apple has not been able to deliver anything except a monitor.

I'm not giving up my calibrated *matte* NEC Spectravision for some uberglossy AppleDisplay just to get GbE

Simplicated
Jun 5, 2012, 10:08 AM
Someone who already owns the $50 cable?

Even if that's the case, a $400 hub is still unreasonable.

pmz
Jun 5, 2012, 10:08 AM
Fail price.

No way the technology is that expensive to warrant such a price. Everyone is just trying to capitalize on Thunderbolt's newness, but the market will deem it unprosperous.

I think a fair, introductory price would be $199.

akm3
Jun 5, 2012, 10:10 AM
Even if that's the case, a $400 hub is still unreasonable.

I agree, the price is way too high.

$299 was too high.

This product should cost ~$199 max, WITH the 'upgrades'.

Digital Skunk
Jun 5, 2012, 10:10 AM
i disagree - because, really, how many people (percentage wise) will require such a device? pro-sumers, more or less. sub 1% market share of total mac users (and maybe a few idiots that dont _really_ need it?)....

i mean honestly, it's already $1,000+ for even a small TB enclosure, then this, then your TB displays, yada - it's another mac (which i'd rather have!)

Sure, I agree that not many users need bandwidth at that capacity and USB 3.0 serves a larger market, but TBolt won't be dead simply because the accessories for it are too expensive at launch.

I see more average users using it more for convenience than for RAID5 enclosures. Macbook Air owner comes home and plugs his laptop into the TBolt ACD and his/her FW800, Time Machine backup, etc. is ready to go. I see it being that "one cable to rule them all" kinda thing for users that may want it.

The Belkin fills that niche without the need for a 27" panel, or for users that need the expansion in a tight space.


Perhaps killing it is going to far, but it will never be anything more then FW400/800 at these prices.

If Apple adds USB 3 this year to the Mac lineup then Thunderbolt is all but dead to the average consumer that Apple targets.

Yes, but the price will come down as FW800 prices have. I laughed at the price of FW800 back in 2004, but now the $10 difference between it and USB2/3 is negligible.

Agreed about USB3.0 on the consumer front. Many users wanted Apple to kill the FW400/800 ports on the 13" comps just so they could get a third USB in there. I agreed with them.

FuNGi
Jun 5, 2012, 10:11 AM
$400??

MovieCutter
Jun 5, 2012, 10:13 AM
I'll buy it if they ever ship the damn thing...

pmz
Jun 5, 2012, 10:14 AM
At $400 they have everyone thinking the same thing....a Thunderbolt Display from Apple looks like a better deal. For only $600 more you get a 27" display at super hi res, and all the ports you could need.

USB 3 is a biggie, but undoubtedly the TB Display will be updated soon to include that, and then, game over.

reden
Jun 5, 2012, 10:14 AM
How do they expect to push TB to consumers with these ridiculous prices?

MovieCutter
Jun 5, 2012, 10:14 AM
i mean honestly, it's already $1,000+ for even a small TB enclosure, then this, then your TB displays, yada - it's another mac (which i'd rather have!)

Weird, I just bought a Seagate Thunderbolt dock from the Apple store for $430, and it came with a 3TB HDD, enclosure, and TB cable...:confused:

Le Big Mac
Jun 5, 2012, 10:16 AM
But otherwise, this is way too expensive, and I would either play the waiting game, look at alternatives, or get an Apple Thunderbolt Display. Though the Apple display would have to have enough value compared to the cost of other 27" 2560x1440 displays combined with the hub to make it worth while.

This.

The hope for a dock/hub like this is that it would make buying a non-Apple display less expensive than the Apple product, but getting nearly the same features.

But Belkin seems to have decided to price off the Apple display, and markup just as much so that Belkin+3d party display=Apple display. Not seeing the value proposition there Belkin.

woolfgang
Jun 5, 2012, 10:16 AM
Where is Blackmagic Design? In an interview, one of BMD's founders, said they literally got death threats, when first offering great video cards for a reasonable price. Hopefully they will jump in.

doctor-don
Jun 5, 2012, 10:18 AM
Really?

Unbelievable!

Our U.S. economy MUST be doing well.

Digital Skunk
Jun 5, 2012, 10:20 AM
At $400 they have everyone thinking the same thing....a Thunderbolt Display from Apple looks like a better deal. For only $600 more you get a 27" display at super hi res, and all the ports you could need.

USB 3 is a biggie, but undoubtedly the TB Display will be updated soon to include that, and then, game over.

What I never understand about consumers is the tenacity to complain about the price of one product A, then compare buying product A to product B which more expensive, and doesn't fill the same gap for product A.

Might as well just say, "HECK $400! For another $800 I could buy a car!"

The ACD is an entirely different type of product. Yes, it has hub features, but a user needs to want the 27" display feature first and foremost because it's a display. Then you have to want to spend $1000 on your display.

The Belkin and Matrox boxes are not meant to compete with ACDs, nor Mac Minis, nor PCs, nor anything that isn't a hub . . . . hence the reason for the reactions to it's outrageous price.

Weird, I just bought a Seagate Thunderbolt dock from the Apple store for $430, and it came with a 3TB HDD, enclosure, and TB cable...:confused:

You gotta remember, some users don't travel too far past www.store.apple.com for their product info.

That's not an insult at all folks, some really haven't seen the TBolt drives made by other companies (http://www.elgato.com/elgato/na/mainmenu/products/ThunderboltSSD.html?gclid=CPXEhrWzt7ACFWQQNAodHkx68Q) because they really aren't looking for them.

powers74
Jun 5, 2012, 10:21 AM
Apple also essentially offers a Thunderbolt docking station built into its $999 27-inch Thunderbolt display. Apple's display offers three USB 2.0 ports, a Gigabit Ethernet port, a FireWire 800 port, a FaceTime HD camera, and a 2.1 speaker system, all connected to the user's computer over a single Thunderbolt cable.


For a little more than double what this thing will cost? I see a surge in Thunderbolt display sales coming...


How do they expect to push TB to consumers with these ridiculous prices?

Not shipping to "average" consumers?

DoFoT9
Jun 5, 2012, 10:21 AM
Sure, I agree that not many users need bandwidth at that capacity and USB 3.0 serves a larger market, but TBolt won't be dead simply because the accessories for it are too expensive at launch.

I see more average users using it more for convenience than for RAID5 enclosures. Macbook Air owner comes home and plugs his laptop into the TBolt ACD and his/her FW800, Time Machine backup, etc. is ready to go. I see it being that "one cable to rule them all" kinda thing for users that may want it.
assuming your first point comes true, and TB indeed takes off - yes, ok i agree! but simply based off the longevity it took for prices to drop... it's a long long time away. TB was designed as an "all purpose" mechanism, but the part that annoys me is that not all manufacturers are adopting the same type of connector, i mean until Intel released it (officially) in the last few weeks, HP had their own implementation, pretty sure Toshiba did too. I really hope that the market decides to keep mDP as the connector because there are already so many products that utilise it.

The Belkin fills that niche without the need for a 27" panel, or for users that need the expansion in a tight space.

in all honesty i dont see -that- many users who would buy a 27", not unless it was an imac really.

Weird, I just bought a Seagate Thunderbolt dock from the Apple store for $430, and it came with a 3TB HDD, enclosure, and TB cable...:confused:

sure you did. expensive for 3TB. now you go out and buy the $399.99 device just so you can dock it, oh and a TB compatible monitor - look at the price then! given that the internal hard drives are the bottleneck, i'll stick with eSATA or similar, tyvm :)

LimeiBook86
Jun 5, 2012, 10:21 AM
The eSATA and USB 3 options are tempting. If you need those external ports it's great, I can see a studio or company sharing a dock or two around when needed. But yes, it's still way too pricey for what it is. I'd drop $200 for this in a heartbeat, maybe $250 if I needed to get a Thunderbolt cable as well.

As prices drop I hope the prices of these hubs will drop too. And competition from Matrox and Belkin trying to sell their docks (and LaCie too with there eSATA dock) doesn't hurt either... I'd love to add the eSATA and USB 3 functionality to my 2011 iMac, but I'll wait a bit.

SeattleMoose
Jun 5, 2012, 10:24 AM
can you say GOUGING!!!!

TB is having a very difficult birth!!!!

paradox00
Jun 5, 2012, 10:25 AM
Great another overpriced thunderbolt accessory offering the basic ports that mobile computers should have in the first place.

Colour me impressed.... not.

It is overpriced, but I'm surprised you don't understand the concept of a dock. This would be great for laptop owners who like to use their laptops as desktops at home. Only one cable to connect your monitor, ethernet and all your USB 2/3 and firewire devices to your computer.

It's just a shame that this universal dock costs as much or more than the proprietary docks of the past.

cube
Jun 5, 2012, 10:25 AM
MBP with ExpressCard FTW.

atMac
Jun 5, 2012, 10:25 AM
while I will happily agree that this dock has everything I could want for my Air, the price point is staggering.

At $299 I'd be grin gin since I'd have to pay another $45 for the cable but with it being $399 I may have to pass up on what IMO is the perfect dock for the air because its way over priced itself.

Then again, it has eSATA, and USB3 which the ThunderBolt display does not have, and I can still use my current display.

So for those that already have a great display this will still be a great cheaper options, and if you need USB3 or eSATA then its actually a better option.

Macist
Jun 5, 2012, 10:26 AM
It's now $399? Hell, Thunderbolt vapourware is getting pricier by the day.

Digital Skunk
Jun 5, 2012, 10:26 AM
assuming your first point comes true, and TB indeed takes off - yes, ok i agree! but simply based off the longevity it took for prices to drop... it's a long long time away. TB was designed as an "all purpose" mechanism, but the part that annoys me is that not all manufacturers are adopting the same type of connector, i mean until Intel released it (officially) in the last few weeks, HP had their own implementation, pretty sure Toshiba did too. I really hope that the market decides to keep mDP as the connector because there are already so many products that utilise it.

All good points, all good points indeed. I am interested in seeing what the tech industry can do with TBolt after another year or two in the wild. The media creation market has gone bats*** crazy with it at I/O devices for video and audio and turning the iMac into the new entry level workstation.

The consumer market will benefit soon. I too do hope mDP stays around for a LONG while.

in all honesty i dont see -that- many users who would buy a 27", not unless it was an imac really.

Agreed! Most of the 27" HiDef panels on the market are upwards of $600 - $1000. And I'd bet cash money that consumers aren't looking to spend $1000 on a hub that has a display attached to it as a mere convenience.[/QUOTE]

DocNYz
Jun 5, 2012, 10:29 AM
Don't flame. I don't really understand the purpose of these docking stations... (and thunderbold in general really) simply to add more USB and other ports? What needs to be connected? Professional peripherals and accessories? And why is thunderbolt so necessary? I know it transfers data much faster, but unless you are transfering GB of data what's the point? What difference does a thunderbolt display even make? It's not going to display the monitor any faster or anything...

Don't just say "obviously this product isn't for you". I would actually like to learn the purpose.

Since you asked to actually have it explained, I'll give you one example.

For those of us who deal with hundreds (if not thousands) of GBs of data a day across multiple devices, in editing film for one example, we really need multiple monitors, tons of fast drives connected, and often multiple computers (to either split tasks or connect to render faster). So to simply answer your question, we'd need a drive (or RAID array) to download original footage onto, then a copy of it for backup on another drive, then a larger screen to actually do the editing on (especially if a laptop is the comp we're using for all of this), another monitor connected with correct color to visualize the final product as it will be seen by a consumer, speakers to listen to audio, peripherals to control the editing process (scrub through video, draw masks for effects, etc.) and then countless other drives for previous projects or backups of more versions or for transferring current projects on to and then sending to someone else to continue working on or add work to what you've done so far. Before TB, many drives were made with USB 3 (which is much faster than 2 and FW800) which wouldn't work on a mac without some kind of peripheral like this (or an expresscard adapter, for example), so those of us that have them benefit a lot by connecting them all to one dock and then having a single connection to the computer, for everything. Also, for people with slower wireless (or MBAs with no wired connection built in) having ethernet also routed through TB is really helpful to get a solid, continuous wired connection to the internet/network(s). I hope that somewhat answers your question.

newdeal
Jun 5, 2012, 10:30 AM
Yeah right Bellini save your money don't even release this product if it will be at that price.

Mike Oxard
Jun 5, 2012, 10:31 AM
Weird, I just bought a Seagate Thunderbolt dock from the Apple store for $430, and it came with a 3TB HDD, enclosure, and TB cable...:confused:

The goflex seems the best TB option at the moment as you can easily swap the HDD for any other SATA drive. There seem to be plenty of goflex enclosures without drives on eBay (in the UK at least) I've bought a few and fitted my own drives to them.

fishmoose
Jun 5, 2012, 10:31 AM
I'll get one when it hits $99 - cable included.

djpuma
Jun 5, 2012, 10:31 AM
I'm still waiting for a company to have a thunderbolt portable hard drive. None of those expensive raid arrays, just a simple 1 terabyte drive I can use for time machine.

THank you God. Someone is smart. I don't need some crazy raid crap, just give me an alternative to my firewire800 externals. I'm never going to spend $400 for an external let alone even more just to have thunderbolt.

This dock is extremely overpriced and don't see it selling many units at all.
Do we have to wait 4 years for the price to come down?

MovieCutter
Jun 5, 2012, 10:32 AM
sure you did. expensive for 3TB. now you go out and buy the $399.99 device just so you can dock it, oh and a TB compatible monitor - look at the price then! given that the internal hard drives are the bottleneck, i'll stick with eSATA or similar, tyvm :)

Sure, but all my Macs have TB, so what do I need a $400 dock for to dock it with? Not to mention I moved my other 3TB 7200RPM drives to Seagate enclosures so I can easily hot swap all my drives and they are now ALL Thunderbolt compatible...so I don't see the problem.

jclardy
Jun 5, 2012, 10:33 AM
If this included some kind of mobile graphics accelerator then I would consider it. But at $399 for just a dock...no thanks.

I'm still hoping for a TB display with a built in graphics card so that my MBA can increase its graphics potential while keeping the same form factor and not increasing heat.

But seriously, this is nearly half the price of the MBA you would be using it with. And it doesn't even include the cable...

MovieCutter
Jun 5, 2012, 10:34 AM
The goflex seems the best TB option at the moment as you can easily swap the HDD for any other SATA drive. There seem to be plenty of goflex enclosures without drives on eBay (in the UK at least) I've bought a few and fitted my own drives to them.

I bought 5 4TB Seagate GoFlex external drives for less than it would have cost me for the bare drives themselves, 4 came with USB 3 docks, 1 came with FW800 dock. I pulled all the drives to put them into my Drobo, and stuck 3TB high speed drives in the remaining enclosures. So in essence, I now have 5 Thunderbolt hard drives.

Chupa Chupa
Jun 5, 2012, 10:40 AM
The best thing Apple could do is offer TB cables, hubs, and docks at what Jobs would term as "breakthrough" prices. I remember when Apple introduced the PM with DVD-R drive. The kicker was that Apple also started selling DVD-R blanks for $5 each in packs of 5. At the time it was a killer price as everyone else was selling blanks for 3x that price. It's what helped spark DVD-Rs growth (this was a year or so before DVD-R set tops became affordable).

Mike Oxard
Jun 5, 2012, 10:40 AM
I bought 5 4TB Seagate GoFlex external drives for less than it would have cost me for the bare drives themselves, 4 came with USB 3 docks, 1 came with FW800 dock. I pulled all the drives to put them into my Drobo, and stuck 3TB high speed drives in the remaining enclosures. So in essence, I now have 5 Thunderbolt hard drives.

I had one Goflex already and I bought 3 empty cases with USB2 docks. I put in SATA drives I already had, including dismantling a WD USB drive. Swapping drives for offsite backup is now very easy.

theSeb
Jun 5, 2012, 10:43 AM
Really, who pays $400 for a hub without a cable included, which brings the total price to at least $450.

Me. I'll take one, thanks. I already have the cable. This will be brilliant.

champ01
Jun 5, 2012, 10:44 AM
I'm still waiting for a company to have a thunderbolt portable hard drive. None of those expensive raid arrays, just a simple 1 terabyte drive I can use for time machine.

Voila
It's not 1TB but does have thunderbolt. :)

http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/elgato-thunderbolt-ssd.png?w=657

theSeb
Jun 5, 2012, 10:45 AM
The goflex seems the best TB option at the moment as you can easily swap the HDD for any other SATA drive. There seem to be plenty of goflex enclosures without drives on eBay (in the UK at least) I've bought a few and fitted my own drives to them.

I am waiting for the Caldigit options to become available. I don't even care how much they will cost since faster storage = make money back faster.

http://www.caldigit.com/Thunderbolt/T1T2.html

avanpelt
Jun 5, 2012, 10:45 AM
Why is anything related to Thunderbolt so insanely expensive? Are companies having to fork over 25% of their revenue on Thunderbolt devices to Apple or something? That hub looks to be leaps and bounds better than the similar Matrox hub (assuming it works as advertised.)

But I can't remember the last time I paid more than $50 for a USB 2.0 or ethernet hub. This thing has eSATA (cool), an RJ45 jack, USB 3.0, and Thunderbolt connectivity. I'd pay $125-$150 for it because of the extra ports, but $400 is asinine. Someone at Apple has to be looking at the cost of these Thunderbolt devices and shaking their head. This device, in particular, is lucrative in the consumer market; but the price screams "professional use only."

Ten bucks says this hub will be Alex Lindsay's pick of the week on MacBreak Weekly within the next six months -- and he'll probably buy 5 of them. That same ten bucks says that the majority of listeners to the podcast will shake their heads in disbelief.

YsoSerious
Jun 5, 2012, 10:45 AM
$400 = pass

theSeb
Jun 5, 2012, 10:45 AM
Voila
It's not 1TB but does have thunderbolt. :)

Image (http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/elgato-thunderbolt-ssd.png?w=657)

Ridiculously priced and one of the slowest SSDs on the market. No thanks.

ghostface147
Jun 5, 2012, 10:46 AM
Forget it. As soon as the Mac supports USB3, everyone is going to forget about Thunderbolt as a hard drive standard especially for single disks.

Well that sucks.

DocNYz
Jun 5, 2012, 10:48 AM
If this included some kind of mobile graphics accelerator then I would consider it. But at $399 for just a dock...no thanks.

I'm still hoping for a TB display with a built in graphics card so that my MBA can increase its graphics potential while keeping the same form factor and not increasing heat.

But seriously, this is nearly half the price of the MBA you would be using it with. And it doesn't even include the cable...

Seriously, good call on the need for increasing graphics potential externally through TB built into one of these docks/displays. I doubt apple would ever do that but a third party could absolutely make a doc with some heavy duty GPU in it as well.

fhall1
Jun 5, 2012, 10:49 AM
Price it at $400, then after a couple months start a 50% off sale and people will jump all over it thinking they're getting a deal at $200

leesmith2
Jun 5, 2012, 10:53 AM
Thunderbolt is starting to look like a "bag of hurt."

Wrathwitch
Jun 5, 2012, 10:54 AM
It is overpriced, but I'm surprised you don't understand the concept of a dock. This would be great for laptop owners who like to use their laptops as desktops at home. Only one cable to connect your monitor, ethernet and all your USB 2/3 and firewire devices to your computer.

It's just a shame that this universal dock costs as much or more than the proprietary docks of the past.

I Guess I am spoiled.... I have an iMac for my desktop, when I need a laptop I will purchase a laptop for my mobile needs. I even have a beast of a Windows machine just for gaming....

If you are using it as a desktop AND a laptop I can see the merit I guess. I still believe that Apple likes to cull needed ports a bit sooner than their customer base requires.

rogan
Jun 5, 2012, 10:56 AM
$400, hahahahaa

surma884
Jun 5, 2012, 10:56 AM
This should not cost more than $100. TB is the new FireWire thanks to these idiots.

Razeus
Jun 5, 2012, 10:57 AM
Another dead in the water tech. Thunderbolt is an epic failure. If the next iMac doesn't come with USB 3.0, I'm keeping my mid-2010 iMac until it does.

314631
Jun 5, 2012, 10:58 AM
I think there's a lot to admire about this product. Pleasing aesthetics, seemingly limitless connectivity possibilities and blazing fast speeds. This is not for home users obviously. But for prosumers looking for a certain kind of style and sophistication, this truly is a great product at a very affordable price.

Razeus
Jun 5, 2012, 10:58 AM
I think there's a lot to admire about this product. Pleasing aesthetics, seemingly limitless connectivity possibilities and blazing fast speeds. This is not for home users obviously. But for prosumers looking for a certain kind of style and sophistication, this truly is a great product at a very affordable price.

Thunderbolt is a bag of hurt.

It's been over year and I STILL can't get a decent hard drive for it.

Abazigal
Jun 5, 2012, 11:01 AM
Wow, I can almost get a basic 16gb ipad for that price! :eek:

314631
Jun 5, 2012, 11:04 AM
Wow, I can almost get a basic 16gb ipad for that price! :eek:

So? You could get a lot of things for the same money! But unfortunately these wouldn't really solve the real world problems this outstanding Belkin product solves.

Mike Oxard
Jun 5, 2012, 11:06 AM
I am waiting for the Caldigit options to become available. I don't even care how much they will cost since faster storage = make money back faster.

http://www.caldigit.com/Thunderbolt/T1T2.html

For single drives there's no reason why you can't put a fast SSD into a goflex TB dock, that's probably the cheapest option as you could use their portable dock which is $100, then just supply your own SSD.

Konrad
Jun 5, 2012, 11:07 AM
$29.99 or no sale. Cable included.

theluggage
Jun 5, 2012, 11:09 AM
So this doesn't have a HDMI port anymore? I was really hoping I could use the HDMI port, and connect a display via the TB/mDP out...

Probably because of the One Small Problem that I mentioned in the Matrox dock thread: as is made clear on pretty much every FAQ on Thunderbolt, the legacy display device has to be the last device in the chain.

So you can either have a Thunderbolt through port (Belkin), OR a monitor port (Matrox) - but not both. To daisy-chain monitors you need native Thunderbolt monitors.

Even the Apple Thunderbolt displays, which you can daisy-chain, don't let you hook a Mini-DisplayPort device to their output.

Given that, its more useful to stick with a Mini-DisplayPort-to-whatever dongle - they're available in DVI, HDMI and even VGA flavours and you can easily add them to the end of the chain.


Why would I want a TB cable sticking out the front of this thing on my desk.

To make it easy to unplug the eye-wateringly expensive TB cable and take it with you - at $50 a pop were you really going to buy a second one for home? :)

mrr
Jun 5, 2012, 11:11 AM
Let' see, Belkin adds eSATA and USB 3.0 and then they charge an ADDITIONAL hundred dollars more for a product that is *ALREADY OVERPRICED*.

I can go to Frys and buy a eSATA and USB 3.0 external case for $29.

I can buy and internal PCI controller with eSATA and USB 3.0 ports for $29.

Where does this $100 go? Their pockets?

This sucks.

avanpelt
Jun 5, 2012, 11:16 AM
I think there's a lot to admire about this product. Pleasing aesthetics, seemingly limitless connectivity possibilities and blazing fast speeds. This is not for home users obviously. But for prosumers looking for a certain kind of style and sophistication, this truly is a great product at a very affordable price.

"A certain kind of style and sophistication" from a Belkin Thunderbolt dock?! Can I have some of what you're smoking? It must be really good stuff!

----------

Apple should release a similar product to this for $100-$150 and price the cable at $30. That will force these other manufacturers to get competitive on price and might just keep this Thunderbolt technology around for the general public to use.

pubwvj
Jun 5, 2012, 11:17 AM
Firewire is a must have.
More I/O is good.
Long lead time is a disappointment but worth the wait.

powerslave65
Jun 5, 2012, 11:18 AM
This device looks to be 30 dollars worth of parts max. I think the Thunderbolt licensing fees from Intel and Apple must be stupid high. The price should be $99.00. I would rather have an iPad than that thing. Also September? Someone in China could clone it by Wednesday off that picture alone.:eek:

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 5, 2012, 11:18 AM
Thunderbolt - when is the last time that a technology promised so much and delivered so little?

Firewire?

When that came out, people harped on it being like USB and the only device that supported it was the iPod that people came into contact with. It helped Adaptec sell a bunch of add-on cards for PeeCee users to get the port for their iPod, but aside from some niche products, and Sony's private named Firewire, for the average user, Firewire was not the 'end all be all' that it was touted as being. Now so many systems come with it but most people don't know what it was for, and don't care, and it's starting to disappear now too. If it was to be the 'USB killer', it failed... I still have a new Adaptec Firewire card here that I never used. It holds down papers on a shelf...

And I'm talking the 'average user'.

Makos62
Jun 5, 2012, 11:19 AM
Not bad for the connectors, but a little pricey. Too bad the LandingZone didn't pan out yet. That would have been very nice.

Mad Mac Maniac
Jun 5, 2012, 11:20 AM
Since you asked to actually have it explained, I'll give you one example.

For those of us who deal with hundreds (if not thousands) of GBs of data a day across multiple devices, in editing film for one example, we really need multiple monitors, tons of fast drives connected, and often multiple computers (to either split tasks or connect to render faster). So to simply answer your question, we'd need a drive (or RAID array) to download original footage onto, then a copy of it for backup on another drive, then a larger screen to actually do the editing on (especially if a laptop is the comp we're using for all of this), another monitor connected with correct color to visualize the final product as it will be seen by a consumer, speakers to listen to audio, peripherals to control the editing process (scrub through video, draw masks for effects, etc.) and then countless other drives for previous projects or backups of more versions or for transferring current projects on to and then sending to someone else to continue working on or add work to what you've done so far. Before TB, many drives were made with USB 3 (which is much faster than 2 and FW800) which wouldn't work on a mac without some kind of peripheral like this (or an expresscard adapter, for example), so those of us that have them benefit a lot by connecting them all to one dock and then having a single connection to the computer, for everything. Also, for people with slower wireless (or MBAs with no wired connection built in) having ethernet also routed through TB is really helpful to get a solid, continuous wired connection to the internet/network(s). I hope that somewhat answers your question.

Yup. Thanks!

ScoobyMcDoo
Jun 5, 2012, 11:20 AM
So, it seems to me that this is really nothing more than a docking station (or port replicator). After doing a quick search, most competing products (of course not using Thunderbolt) range from $150 to $250. Personally I don't see the added value of thunderbolt to cost that much more.

usptact
Jun 5, 2012, 11:21 AM
Much much much too expensive. I would give max 100 EUR for it. Period.

mcarling
Jun 5, 2012, 11:21 AM
That's an absurd price. Wait for Apple to introduce a retina display for the desktop and then pick up a used 27" Thunderbolt Display for about $400.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 11:21 AM
This device looks to be 30 dollars worth of parts max. I think the Thunderbolt licensing fees from Intel and Apple must be stupid high. The price should be $99.00. I would rather have an iPad than that thing. Also September? Someone in China could clone it by Wednesday off that picture alone.:eek:

TB licensing is expensive and the chipsets are expensive but coming down. I don't think the pricing is as cheap as people are assuming. Just because USB or Ethernet is available on cheap PCI cards doesn't mean that that same economy of scale works for a device like this.

The people that need this device badly enough will purchase it. It's not the first time new technology has come out at a price premium.

antman2x2
Jun 5, 2012, 11:21 AM
I, as a consumer cannot express how disgusted I am with thunderbolt.

Actually let me correct myself, Im not disgusted with thunderbolt, I'm disgusted by these companies who want to rape and pillage my wallet.

THESE PRICES WILL KILL THUNDERBOLT.

Richdmoore
Jun 5, 2012, 11:22 AM
Just a simple Thunderbolt device with 2 thunderbolt ports, some USB 3 ports & as a bonus eSATA ports is all I really need. The iMac already has the rest of the ports & connections.

Colpeas
Jun 5, 2012, 11:27 AM
If the release is set for september, Belkin can easily add one more USB port and bump the price by another $100. I am sure this will find a lot of satisfied buyers. /sarcasm

It's a cool idea, but there is no way I would pay $400 for a hub. Seems like Thunderbolt is going to become just another unused port on my Mac.

usptact
Jun 5, 2012, 11:27 AM
Price it at $400, then after a couple months start a 50% off sale and people will jump all over it thinking they're getting a deal at $200

Well said! This is how I think every time I see something like "40% off" and similar :D

GSPice
Jun 5, 2012, 11:28 AM
I can't take these Pro prices!

sevimli
Jun 5, 2012, 11:28 AM
In Chicago, after the tax, cable+hub will be $496.12 :eek:

usptact
Jun 5, 2012, 11:28 AM
I, as a consumer cannot express how disgusted I am with thunderbolt.

Actually let me correct myself, Im not disgusted with thunderbolt, I'm disgusted by these companies who want to rape and pillage my wallet.

THESE PRICES WILL KILL THUNDERBOLT.

Exactly! Just cannot agree more with what you said.

Yamcha
Jun 5, 2012, 11:29 AM
Yeah It's still far too expensive, not sure who would invest that much on a Thunderbold Dock or even External Hard Drive..

While Thunderbold is super fast, still waiting on it to get mainstream, in the meantime I'd love to see Apple adopt USB 3.0 on all their machines..

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 11:29 AM
I, as a consumer cannot express how disgusted I am with thunderbolt.

Actually let me correct myself, Im not disgusted with thunderbolt, I'm disgusted by these companies who want to rape and pillage my wallet.

THESE PRICES WILL KILL THUNDERBOLT.

No they won't. Some of you are making the assumption that these devices are aimed at you. If you need the speed and flexibility of this Dock the money will be inconsequential.

I don't know why everyone is so upset. Expecting 10Gbps connection for next to nothing in price is silly.

Most consumers will be happy with USB 3.0. Those with more demanding needs know that fulfilling those needs requires more demanding $$$$

angemon89
Jun 5, 2012, 11:31 AM
The 27" thunderbolt display is looking more and more attractive. As long as they add USB 3.0 to the display, it's early happy birthday to me.

theluggage
Jun 5, 2012, 11:31 AM
Why is anything related to Thunderbolt so insanely expensive?

Because the market is currently very small - limited to people who bought a new Mac in the last year or so, and who actually need something faster than Firewire 800. Economies of scale are a huge factor in electronics pricing.

The first people being served by the market are video and graphics pros who were left up the creek by the removal of the ExpressCard slot from all but the 17" MacBook Pro. That's an even smaller market, and sellers can charge what they like.


But I can't remember the last time I paid more than $50 for a USB 2.0 or ethernet hub.


This isn't a USB 2 hub or an Ethernet hub, or an internal-SATA-to-eSATA cable. It contains Ethernet, USB 3, Firewire and eSATA controllers that that offer the same sort of performance that you'd get if they were built onto the motherboard.

If you just want to connect a mouse, keyboard and card reader then a $20 USB hub is all you need. If you want to add eSATA or an extra Gigabit Ethernet port, only Thunderbolt or USB3 will cut the mustard... and how do you add USB3 to your 2011 Mac?

This is expensive because the only other thing on the market remotely like it is built into a $900 monitor - and even that doesn't offer eSATA or USB3.

[/QUOTE]

rmwebs
Jun 5, 2012, 11:31 AM
Hmm...

"Belkin Upgrades Thunderbolt Express Dock with USB 3.0 and eSATA, Bumps Price to $399.99"

"Consumers tell Belkin to stick it where the sun dont' shine!"

Complete rip off. There's simply no justification for such a high price, its not like they have excessive licensing to pay here.

If this carries on Thunderbolt will be just like Firewire - unused due to very low adoption outside the Mac. Apple and Intel need to be really pushing to get Thunderbolt on every single computer, not just Macs, that'll kill the platform before it gets started.

firestarter
Jun 5, 2012, 11:33 AM
Complete rip off. There's simply no justification for such a high price, its not like they have excessive licensing to pay here.

How do you know that Thunderbolt licensing isn't high?

BlkBear
Jun 5, 2012, 11:37 AM
can I plug my mini display port (not thunderbolt) Cinema Display into this?

Chupa Chupa
Jun 5, 2012, 11:38 AM
But I can't remember the last time I paid more than $50 for a USB 2.0 or ethernet hub.

$50? That was a long time ago (relatively). I can't remember paying more than $10, but that was last year.


Ten bucks says this hub will be Alex Lindsay's pick of the week on MacBreak Weekly within the next six months -- and he'll probably buy 5 of them. That same ten bucks says that the majority of listeners to the podcast will shake their heads in disbelief.

I think you'd lose your $10. Alex is a true pro user. $400 is nothing to a business like his. He'll make 100x that on added productivity. For a prosumer or lower, yes, $400 is insane unless you have a lot of spare change lying around. But most people understand this about his picks which is why the "Alex" as a monetary system was invented.

sjinsjca
Jun 5, 2012, 11:38 AM
I'm still waiting for a company to have a thunderbolt portable hard drive. None of those expensive raid arrays, just a simple 1 terabyte drive I can use for time machine.

Seagate has one. Nice, too.

elec999
Jun 5, 2012, 11:38 AM
When I saw this I taught it was the new mac mini.

wikus
Jun 5, 2012, 11:39 AM
LOL!!!

I gave *harsh* criticisms over how miserably executed Thunderbolt has been, the prices far too high and far too few products available that use it and macrumors members tried to chastize ME over my complaints about thunderbolt.

Well, here you go, another thunderbolt peripheral to add to your collection of about 20 a year and a half later at a higher price tag than its predecessor.

Complete FAILURE thunderbolt has been.

mrr
Jun 5, 2012, 11:39 AM
This is expensive because the only other thing on the market remotely like it is built into a $900 monitor - and even that doesn't offer eSATA or USB3.



The costs of the components, manufacturing and licensing still don't justify the high costs that we are seeing on Thunderbolt

Apple Thunderbolt cable is $49 while an AppleTV is $99.

sevimli
Jun 5, 2012, 11:40 AM
The costs of the components, manufacturing and licensing still don't justify the high costs that we are seeing on Thunderbolt

Apple Thunderbolt cable is $49 while an AppleTV is $99.

So true!

kjacks52
Jun 5, 2012, 11:41 AM
Someone finally nails it and offers the right product. Too bad the price is absurd. Even $199 seems high for a high-end peripheral, but $399?! If these prices don't start falling and quickly, I'm concerned about thunderbolt's future. Someone else will figure out how to do something similar at a reasonable price.

Guy Mancuso
Jun 5, 2012, 11:42 AM
Problem is folks like me that have a lot of stuff going on with there MBP and maybe new models coming out without needed ports like Firewire 800 and ethernet connections on these units. I need to be portable and a Mac Pro simply won't work for me but I have for instance a Promise pegasus T bolt connection, Drobo Firewire 800 connection, Medium format camera USB 3 and Firewire 800 . Than a Nikon USB 3 connection. One laser printer USB 2 and a Epson large format printer USB 2 than keyboard and other stuff that need connections and if Apple decides to start taking ports away this coming MBP announcements than I am hosed if i upgrade without such a device like this. Which will save my Drobo with Firewire 800. Now will this want to make me upgrade to a new laptop not really if i have to shell out 400 bucks extra to do it. So yes I see the need for a device like this but I agree this does not help Apple in the long run. Oh and I got a 30 inch NEC monitor running into T bolt. Bottom line I can't upgrade to a new MBP if they cut off the ports . Now i admit I am a minority here but I am a Professional Photographer that has these needs and this helps me but you can't simply cut off this segment of the market either. End of day this is also a Apple issue that needs to support there Professional users and I don't see that in the next MBP from what the rumors are.

I tend to agree on the USB3 just simply taking over here if T bolt is just to expensive to run.

MovieCutter
Jun 5, 2012, 11:43 AM
Don't flame. I don't really understand the purpose of these docking stations... (and thunderbold in general really) simply to add more USB and other ports? What needs to be connected? Professional peripherals and accessories? And why is thunderbolt so necessary? I know it transfers data much faster, but unless you are transfering GB of data what's the point? What difference does a thunderbolt display even make? It's not going to display the monitor any faster or anything...


Already been answered, but I myself have 40TB+ of storage in my home office at any given time, not to mention the 100TB+ at the main office I work at sometimes. I constantly need to back up and/or transfer 100s of GBs of footage, sometimes daily depending on the client. Ever since I got my Thunderbolt peripherals, it's been much faster than using FW800 and easier than using eSATA. A dock would allow me to avoid having eSATA, FW800, USB, DisplayPort, and Gigabit Ethernet hanging off the side of my MBP, and give me ONE cable to worry about...plus MagSafe obviously.

theluggage
Jun 5, 2012, 11:44 AM
I can go to Frys and buy a eSATA and USB 3.0 external case for $29.


...and then you can buy a Belkin Thunderbolt Dock so that you can actually plug those into your 2011 MacBook Pro.


I can buy and internal PCI controller with eSATA and USB 3.0 ports for $29.


... and you'll need this (http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresschassis.html) to plug it into your 2011 iMac.

The things you mention are cheap because they are commodity, generic PC items, mass manufactured in the far East and re-badged by resellers. The Thunderbolt stuff is expensive because it is new, and currently only appeals to people who have 2011 Macs.

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 5, 2012, 11:48 AM
The 27" thunderbolt display is looking more and more attractive. As long as they add USB 3.0 to the display, it's early happy birthday to me.

If Apple adds USB 3, they would likely bump the price.

Apple did not go with Thunderbolt to control the market either. They lead the market into areas that could prove beneficial in the long run and leverage that technology and encourage others to develop devices using that technology. For Apple to come out with a device like this from Belkin, and they would have snuffed out the tertiary market for add-ons and could cost them support for their own products.

Apple doesn't want to crap all over the market. They are a participant in that market...

tigres
Jun 5, 2012, 11:48 AM
The Thunderbolt stuff is expensive because it is new, and currently only appeals to people who have 2011 Macs.


How long will TB be considered "new"?:rolleyes:

mrr
Jun 5, 2012, 11:48 AM
Luckily I currently have a MacPro tower and a PCI controller with eSATA and USB 3.0.

When the new MacBook Pro comes out with USB 3.0, I will never have to deal with Thunderbolt.

MovieCutter
Jun 5, 2012, 11:50 AM
I think you'd lose your $10. Alex is a true pro user. $400 is nothing to a business like his. He'll make 100x that on added productivity. For a prosumer or lower, yes, $400 is insane unless you have a lot of spare change lying around. But most people understand this about his picks which is why the "Alex" as a monetary system was invented.

Exactly, I'm not at the scale of Alex, but as a freelancer, the time I save using Thunderbolt allows me to bill to other projects, so I make more money.


Complete FAILURE thunderbolt has been.

Really? Seems to be working just fine for me...

Anti-Lucifer
Jun 5, 2012, 11:52 AM
What an utter fail. Thunderbolt introduced in 2011. It's 2012 and yet the appeal still isn't here because of pricing like this.

Let's see, $999 for a MBA. Add $399 + $50 for this expansion unit and TB cable. that's nearly half the cost of my mba. Ridiculous when these features should be part of the computer anyway!

Colpeas
Jun 5, 2012, 11:52 AM
because the market is currently very small - limited to people who bought a new mac in the last year or so, and who actually need something faster than firewire 800. Economies of scale are a huge factor in electronics pricing.

The first people being served by the market are video and graphics pros who were left up the creek by the removal of the expresscard slot from all but the 17" macbook pro. That's an even smaller market, and sellers can charge what they like.

This isn't a usb 2 hub or an ethernet hub, or an internal-sata-to-esata cable. It contains ethernet, usb 3, firewire and esata controllers that that offer the same sort of performance that you'd get if they were built onto the motherboard.

If you just want to connect a mouse, keyboard and card reader then a $20 usb hub is all you need. If you want to add esata or an extra gigabit ethernet port, only thunderbolt or usb3 will cut the mustard... And how do you add usb3 to your 2011 mac?

This is expensive because the only other thing on the market remotely like it is built into a $900 monitor - and even that doesn't offer esata or usb3.



This is not an excuse, It's just a hub. Period.

For 400 (FYI, it's FOUR HUNDRED) bucks it's too damn expensive for what it offers. Also remember that Macs are not the only computers to have Thunderbolt port - if Apple customers are okay with such pricing, I doubt many of other brands' customers will do likewise. I am not a Pro, but such 'dock' as they call it, would come in handy.
For $100 it might be a no brainer for most people (including me), but $400 price tag will be a deal-breaker even for its target category - the Prosumers. I doubt this will sell well.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 11:55 AM
The things you mention are cheap because they are commodity, generic PC items, mass manufactured in the far East and re-badged by resellers. The Thunderbolt stuff is expensive because it is new, and currently only appeals to people who have 2011 Macs.

People are not getting it. Our computers take the PCI cards and the motherboard and other ancillary devices route this data. It seems rather silly to talk about what can be purchased for cheap as comparison and ignore that a whole computer is needed to make things work.

The Belkin is expensive but their goal is likely to sell to Prosumers. What does the average consumer need with all these ports.

----------

This is not an excuse, It's just a hub. Period.

For 400 (FYI, it's FOUR HUNDRED) bucks it's too damn expensive for what it offers. Also remember that Macs are not the only computers to have Thunderbolt port - if Apple customers are okay with such pricing, I doubt many of other brands' customers will do likewise. I am not a Pro, but such 'dock' as they call it, would come in handy.
For $100 it might be a no brainer for most people (including me), but $400 price tag will be a deal-breaker even for its target category - the Prosumers. I doubt this will sell well.

If it's so easy. If it's "just a hub" then why aren't see seeing more options beyond the Matrox option that is far more expensive than your $100 pricing.

You guys need to be realistic.

theluggage
Jun 5, 2012, 11:56 AM
Apple Thunderbolt cable is $49 while an AppleTV is $99.

...and Apple Stores probably shift a hundred AppleTVs for every Thunderbolt cable they sell.

One of these is a bog-standard ARM system-on-a-chip and some commodity Flash RAM, not a lot different from other media players on the market.

The other has a custom chip, only used in Thunderbolt cables, inside each connector that somehow crams two bidirectional 10Gb/s channels down a bit of twisted wire.

The real con is that some people will buy their AppleTV and then spend $50 on a HDMI cable, when a totally equivalent cable (consisting of a bit of wire with passive connectors on each end) costs $5 from Amazon.

TEG
Jun 5, 2012, 11:57 AM
I'm confused as to why there is a TB port on the front. It would be much more logical to have USB on the front, and the TB in and TB out on the back.

TEG

Konrad
Jun 5, 2012, 12:00 PM
If Apple adds USB 3, they would likely bump the price.

Apple did not go with Thunderbolt to control the market either. They lead the market into areas that could prove beneficial in the long run and leverage that technology and encourage others to develop devices using that technology. For Apple to come out with a device like this from Belkin, and they would have snuffed out the tertiary market for add-ons and could cost them support for their own products.

Apple doesn't want to crap all over the market. They are a participant in that market...

The long run does not translate to a unit life span. This is clearly a long transition, so until a standard is dominant, accommodate what the current market majory uses. It is too early to force in this case TB and eliminate FW, Ethernet, etc. In my case it would take a replacement of several g-raids at about $1800 per pop, and that's just the beginning. Someone at apple is obviously both drunk and stupid.

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 5, 2012, 12:01 PM
I, as a consumer cannot express how disgusted I am with thunderbolt.

Actually let me correct myself, Im not disgusted with thunderbolt, I'm disgusted by these companies who want to rape and pillage my wallet.

THESE PRICES WILL KILL THUNDERBOLT.

But Thunderbolt isn't aimed specifically at the 'consumer market'.

People that need the performance, as has been pointed out here numerous times, will get this device, and more, because they live on the line and NEED the speed, the power, the flexibility. I mean, come on, there were Cray liquid cooled supercomputers and some of this angst about Thunderbolt would be like throwing a fit about them being on the market. It's not for everybody. When USB came out, the peripherals and cables were expensive. When FireWire came out, same thing. Thunderbolt is no different, and will hopefully last longer in the market than FireWire has.

Just wait until the fiber based Thunderbolt comes out... I can hear the screams now... Look at how Fibre Channel was supposed to 'reinvent the storage industry', and 'revolutionize clustering technology'. Who has Fibre Channel? Imagine a portable hard drive using Fibre Channel... 20 gig speed! A waste for all residential personal computer users...

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 12:05 PM
I'm confused as to why there is a TB port on the front. It would be much more logical to have USB on the front, and the TB in and TB out on the back.

TEG

Belkin lists one TB port as Upstream and one as downstream with daisy chain capability.

----------

Docks are not cheap

http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=10216229&mfg_part=NZ222AA&pagemode=ca

$289

http://h10003.www1.hp.com/digmedialib/prodimg/lowres/c01834981.jpg

Wingsnbeer
Jun 5, 2012, 12:06 PM
As if Mac/Apple stuff wasn't expensive enough already...

I'd buy it for $99. I'd *think* about it at $199. Anything more than that I would have to reconsider why i'm buying an over priced Macbook to begin with.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 12:07 PM
As if Mac/Apple stuff wasn't expensive enough already...

I'd buy it for $99. I'd *think* about it at $199. Anything more than that I would have to reconsider why i'm buying an over priced Macbook to begin with.

This product is from Belkin. I don't know why you are bringing Apple and Macbooks in this discussion.

mytdave
Jun 5, 2012, 12:07 PM
Different products for different needs. If I had a brand new setup (new computer and peripherals), I would probably go with the Belkin product.

But I have older peripherals, including Firewire drives, a DVI monitor, and many standard USB devices. The Matorx product fits my needs (except for Firewire) much better than the Belkin product, and it's significantly less expensive.

MacinDoc
Jun 5, 2012, 12:12 PM
The fact that they increased the price by $100 for adding USB 3.0 and eSATA shows how much they are inflating the price of this dock. That's the problem with technologically advanced goods that are being sold to limited markets, there are no economies of scale to offset the development costs.

I think Apple should jump in to kickstart TB device adoption. Maybe offer a TB-equipped Time Capsule. If Apple could keep the price of Time Capsule the same as it is now but offer it with TB, the company could exponentially increase both Time Capsule and TB device sales.

----------

As if Mac/Apple stuff wasn't expensive enough already...

I'd buy it for $99. I'd *think* about it at $199. Anything more than that I would have to reconsider why i'm buying an over priced Macbook to begin with.
Wait 'til next week, when the MacBook will no longer be overpriced for what it is.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 12:13 PM
The fact that they increased the price by $100 for adding USB 3.0 and eSATA shows how much they are inflating the price of this dock. That's the problem with technologically advanced goods that are being sold to limited markets, there are no economies of scale to offset the development costs.

I think Apple should jump in to kickstart TB device adoption. Maybe offer a TB-equipped Time Capsule. If Apple could keep the price of Time Capsule the same as it is now but offer it with TB, the company could exponentially increase both Time Capsule and TB device sales.

The market will take care of itself.

Intel has Cactus Ridge TB parts coming (I don't know if this is Cactus Ridge) which will be cheaper to make peripherals but in the short term Thunderbolt will be expensive. It'll never get as cheap as USB because the controllers are complex.

fredoviola
Jun 5, 2012, 12:14 PM
poo price

avanpelt
Jun 5, 2012, 12:15 PM
I think you'd lose your $10. Alex is a true pro user. $400 is nothing to a business like his. He'll make 100x that on added productivity. For a prosumer or lower, yes, $400 is insane unless you have a lot of spare change lying around. But most people understand this about his picks which is why the "Alex" as a monetary system was invented.

You're right on all counts there; but I still think it'll be his pick of the week at some point in the near future once it's released. So, I bet I'll keep my $10. :) As I recall, according to the Alex monetary system, this hub would only be one Alex. . .or maybe 2/3 of one Alex.

Anyway, back on topic, I see the tremendous value of this technology -- not just for the Alex Lindsay's of the world, but for many, many people. Steve billed Thunderbolt as amazing, and it is. What Steve did not say was that this was amazing new technology for professionals who were willing to drop several hundred dollars for peripherals. That's where my frustration comes from.

Unfortunately, almost a year and a half since its release, Thunderbolt is starting to feel, to me, like the LaserDisc players from many years ago. People who had them lauded them as the "next big thing" with amazing picture quality; but they never really hit the mainstream. Then, several years later, a newer technology came around that offered even better technology at a lower price; and LaserDisc players are seen today as nothing more than a passing fad that was enjoyed mostly by those with plenty of money to burn.

JAT
Jun 5, 2012, 12:15 PM
I'm confused as to why there is a TB port on the front. It would be much more logical to have USB on the front, and the TB in and TB out on the back.

TEG

TB is an input. These are designed to be a form of docking station. Presumably you should have all your desktop stuff plugged into the back already. Walk up with a laptop and plug into the TB port.

Richdmoore
Jun 5, 2012, 12:15 PM
The fact that they increased the price by $100 for adding USB 3.0 and eSATA shows how much they are inflating the price of this dock. That's the problem with technologically advanced goods that are being sold to limited markets, there are no economies of scale to offset the development costs.

I think Apple should jump in to kickstart TB device adoption. Maybe offer a TB-equipped Time Capsule. If Apple could keep the price of Time Capsule the same as it is now but offer it with TB, the company could exponentially increase both Time Capsule and TB device sales.

I like that idea. Also have Apple make some simpler, affordable accessories (with daisy chaining) like a thunderbolt to USB 3, thunderbolt to eSATA, thunderbolt to sound card, basically allow the end user to pick which parts of these hubs they need, and reduct the price at the same time.

It would be a great route for those who already have 2011 thunderbolt models, just plug in what we want to upgrade, and save the cost on what we don't.

Of course, for this model to work we can't have $50 cables, that is the first thing apple/intel needs to drive the price down on.

ObsidianIce
Jun 5, 2012, 12:17 PM
This has a high price point, but I'm willing to pay for this only because I DJ. As a DJ you almost always have a mess of cords. I can tuck this item into my coffin case and plug my external drive, my mixer and my CDJs directly into this. When i run video as well i can plug in my APC40 and my video output into this as well. All those items are then connected to my Macbook pro via a single cable, while the mess of cords is organized and tucked into the coffin case. No plugging and unplugging everything before and after the show. I love it!

Sasoon
Jun 5, 2012, 12:18 PM
LOL :D, you can buy laptop fo 400$. Max price for this device should be 99$ (even that is to much)

MacinDoc
Jun 5, 2012, 12:19 PM
Belkin lists one TB port as Upstream and one as downstream with daisy chain capability.

----------

Docks are not cheap

http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=10216229&mfg_part=NZ222AA&pagemode=ca

$289

Image (http://h10003.www1.hp.com/digmedialib/prodimg/lowres/c01834981.jpg)
Funny, when I first saw that I thought it was a printer.

mrr
Jun 5, 2012, 12:20 PM
Let's figure this out by this thing by component costs.

I will be *MORE* than generous:

2 Thunderbolt $80
3 USB 3 $30
Firewire 800 $20
eSata $10
Ethernet $5
3.5 in/out $1
case $50

MacinDoc
Jun 5, 2012, 12:23 PM
I like that idea. Also have Apple make some simpler, affordable accessories (with daisy chaining) like a thunderbolt to USB 3, thunderbolt to eSATA, thunderbolt to sound card, basically allow the end user to pick which parts of these hubs they need, and reduct the price at the same time.

It would be a great route for those who already have 2011 thunderbolt models, just plug in what we want to upgrade, and save the cost on what we don't.

Of course, for this model to work we can't have $50 cables, that is the first thing apple/intel needs to drive the price down on.
I like the idea of Apple making hubs as you have described, but given Apple's obsession with reducing clutter, I was thinking more along the lines of integration with existing products and enhancing their utility. Of course, if Apple took an interest in making TB hubs/docks, it would be a much more efficient way to drive down prices through economies of scale, but unfortunately, I don't think it's likely to happen.

theSeb
Jun 5, 2012, 12:28 PM
For single drives there's no reason why you can't put a fast SSD into a goflex TB dock, that's probably the cheapest option as you could use their portable dock which is $100, then just supply your own SSD.

Unfortunately it does not work 100% with all drives, as reported on these forums. :(

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 5, 2012, 12:28 PM
The long run does not translate to a unit life span. This is clearly a long transition, so until a standard is dominant, accommodate what the current market majory uses. It is too early to force in this case TB and eliminate FW, Ethernet, etc. In my case it would take a replacement of several g-raids at about $1800 per pop, and that's just the beginning. Someone at apple is obviously both drunk and stupid.

I agree, and the adoption of it will take as long as it takes. Well, and then there will be something else, newer, faster, better, more expensive...

I don't think Apple is drunk, or stupid. I think they are thinking of something that could, eventually, kill USB, and provide, so far, an ultimate in flexibility and expansion options. If Apple killed USB, FireWire in its two flavors, and forced people to use Thunderbolt or nothing, I'd get in the car and go there and ask them what they hell they are smoking.

I think that Ethernet is pretty much here to stay. Coming up with something different would be like getting people to breath water instead of air. And USB will always be around too, at least for my lifetime. FireWire, I'm not convinced. High pricing of Thunderbolt devices could kink its adoption, however with its capabilities, it could end up, for a while, like Fibre Channel is now: for the 'big boys'. It will come down, it will get to be as ubiquitous as USB is now. It will take time to get the prices down and for the licensees to figure out who they want to sell to.

On an aside, historically, Apple has gone with interesting choices for interfaces and expansion. I remember the Nubus slots in the Mac II's. Someone still uses that bus technology I believe. Nope, it's pretty much dead. Being 32-bit only though...

bogatyr
Jun 5, 2012, 12:29 PM
LOL :D, you can buy laptop fo 400$. Max price for this device should be 99$ (even that is to much)

A typical dock price runs $200-$300 for all the ThinkPad laptops we use at our company. $400 is ridiculous without a cable but $100 is asking a bit much compared to the market.

Acidsplat
Jun 5, 2012, 12:29 PM
the retail price has risen from the previous $299.99 to $399.99. The Thunderbolt cable will run an additional $44.99

And this is why Thunderbolt will be FireWire Part II, folks.

bungiefan89
Jun 5, 2012, 12:30 PM
I've got a better idea, Belkin! You wanna make some money? DROP the fancy stuff!

Ditch the extra thunderbolt port, the SATA thing, the ethernet, headphones... drop ALL the ports AND the extra port for the electricity and just make this: A simple, USB hub that connects to a Mac via thunderbolt... say, 4 USB 2.0 ports as an example, or one or more of them could be USB 3.0, but just make sure the whole thing together with a thunderbolt cord costs LESS THAN $100!

You can send the royalties for this brilliant, company-saving idea to me by in cash. You're welcome. :cool:

klamse25
Jun 5, 2012, 12:30 PM
I expect them to lose money because of this.

theSeb
Jun 5, 2012, 12:30 PM
How do you know that Thunderbolt licensing isn't high?

We know. It's $25 for the controller chip. There are no licensing costs per device sold or anything like that.

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 5, 2012, 12:34 PM
Unfortunately, almost a year and a half since its release, Thunderbolt is starting to feel, to me, like the LaserDisc players from many years ago. People who had them lauded them as the "next big thing" with amazing picture quality; but they never really hit the mainstream. Then, several years later, a newer technology came around that offered even better technology at a lower price; and LaserDisc players are seen today as nothing more than a passing fad that was enjoyed mostly by those with plenty of money to burn.

But what killed laserdiscs wasn't that as much as having to get up and flip the disc over to continue watching the video. Yes, the picture was great (for its time), but the inconveniences and size made dropping it a no brainer. I still have my player and a number of discs but haven't bothered plugging it in...

ericinboston
Jun 5, 2012, 12:37 PM
It was already too expensive at $299. At $399 I doubt it will sell well. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised to see USB 3.0 on the next Apple Thunderbolt Display. Why not just get that for $600 more, or even a Mac Mini for $200 more?

Exactly...who is going to spend $400 on this hub thing? 0.

Well, maybe some super diehard employees that have $400 to blow in their department's budget.

This extremely expensive device is yet another nail in the coffin for TB.

mrr
Jun 5, 2012, 12:39 PM
But what killed laserdiscs wasn't that as much as having to get up and flip the disc over to continue watching the video.

My Laserdisc player, plays both sides (though most didn't).

What killed Laserdiscs was the pricing. $99 or even more for a movie!

When dvds came out at only $20. Goodbye Laserdisc.

Nostromo
Jun 5, 2012, 12:39 PM
When will we see the first $1000 dock?

And the cable for $45? That's the way Circuit City used to rip off customers - before they went broke.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 12:41 PM
Let's figure this out by this thing by component costs.

I will be *MORE* than generous:

2 Thunderbolt $80
3 USB 3 $30
Firewire 800 $20
eSata $10
Ethernet $5
3.5 in/out $1
case $50

Then add 3-5x markup and you get a $300 to $400 product considering the applicable market it is selling into

And this is why Thunderbolt will be FireWire Part II, folks.

This analogy needs to die. Firewire never took on because Apple charged too much money for the per port license and they couldn't control the motherboard (Intel did) so Firewire was an expensive add-on.

Intel owns Thunderbolt and the motherboard chipsets and has signaled an intention to put Thunderbolt into future chipsets. It all but guarantees Thunderbolts success.

Right now we're in early adopter pricing. The people that need this technology will pay a premium like any other new technology. Joe Six Pack won't need or want this until it's baked in a couple of years and more affordable. Par for the course.

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 5, 2012, 12:47 PM
My Laserdisc player, plays both sides (though most didn't).

What killed Laserdiscs was the pricing. $99 or even more for a movie!

When dvds came out at only $20. Goodbye Laserdisc.

I have forgotten how expensive they were at that time. That was also the time when first run VHS movies were kinda pricey too. Didn't the play through players have to spin the disc in the opposite direction when changing sides?

I have pretty good memories about laserdiscs. We had a video rental place that rented them pretty cheap. One big bitch about them was that they were so big, sometimes we'd get a disc that was cracked. They were still two separate sides that were glued together, much like DVD's are. Heck, I have Star Wars and Jurassic Park special editions for Laserdisc... A few other too cool flicks too. Ahh, the good old days. :eek:

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 5, 2012, 12:47 PM
... in what world does this kind of strategy make sense?

Quick recap:
- Belkin Announces pricey hub for $300
- Competetitor announces their hub is going to undercut it, at $250
- Belkin announces that they'll raise the price to $450

Having your competitor sell their product for just $50 less than you wasn't enough, you had to make your product cost nearly twice as much + raise your price?

(For anyone who isn't aware, this is the exact wrong strategy for introducing premium products. You start with a sky high price and then bring it down, like Apple did with the $600 iPhone or $500 iPod. You don't start sky high and then decide to boost your price to the moon.)

manu chao
Jun 5, 2012, 12:48 PM
I think Apple should jump in to kickstart TB device adoption. Maybe offer a TB-equipped Time Capsule. If Apple could keep the price of Time Capsule the same as it is now but offer it with TB, the company could exponentially increase both Time Capsule and TB device sales.

A wireless router that is connected to your computer via (TB) wire? What is the point of that?

Or do you want to use the TC only as a NAS that doubles as dock? For the NAS part, TB would not really add much over GbitEthernet since the TC is only a single HDD unit.

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 5, 2012, 12:50 PM
When will we see the first $1000 dock?

And the cable for $45? That's the way Circuit City used to rip off customers - before they went broke.

Heck, Best Buy jacks up their prices a lot more than Circuit City did. I've found printer cartridges at the local Best Buy marked up $5.00+ over the price of the nearby Staples and OfficeMax. I am amazed at the 100%+ markups on cables nearly everywhere. HDMI cables are so marked up, it's tragic. I worked at Circuit City. They died of a largely self inflicted wound...

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 12:52 PM
Exactly...who is going to spend $400 on this hub thing? 0.

Well, maybe some super diehard employees that have $400 to blow in their department's budget.

This extremely expensive device is yet another nail in the coffin for TB.

The people that need a single cable dock. If modern day docks like the HP dock I linked early are in the $200 range without the flexibility then is it too far a reach to think that there are plenty of people what would spend more for a faster and more flexible dock?

Some of you are so wrapped up in your own personal beliefs that it's all you can see or you just simply have an axe to grind about Thunderbolt until it gets cheap enough to make you happy. That's fair if not abstract from reality.

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 5, 2012, 12:52 PM
(For anyone who isn't aware, this is the exact wrong strategy for introducing premium products. You start with a sky high price and then bring it down, like Apple did with the $600 iPhone or $500 iPod. You don't start sky high and then decide to boost your price to the moon.)

So Apple doesn't sell iPhones for $600? Really? Ever priced an unlocked phone?

manu chao
Jun 5, 2012, 12:52 PM
A simple, USB hub that connects to a Mac via thunderbolt... say, 4 USB 2.0 ports as an example, or one or more of them could be USB 3.0, but just make sure the whole thing together with a thunderbolt cord costs LESS THAN $100!

Why not get a USB 3 hub directly?

Rocketman
Jun 5, 2012, 12:53 PM
Cables

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&gclid=CMzShPjUt7ACFUoGRQodbQNh6A

It is silly to go on here and post you will not buy a product for its price. Firstly it is the first, bleeding edge product to offer the features actual likely buyers asked for. Besides that you will probably be able to buy it on Amazon for about a hundred bucks less or so.

The retail price serves a valuable purpose for those folks who need or want to buy the product in a full service retail store.

I agree with one commenter the main value to TB is multiple display support.

Has anyone at MR or elsewhere set up a web page to show typical multi-monitor setups with TB vs USB2 vs USB3 and the resolution limits? That would be handy, even if were a paragraph or three from someone who has actually done it.

If you can get by with a USB hub to bypass TB you don't need TB to begin with. The whole point of TB is very high bandwidth applications so of course it is more expensive by a bunch.

Don't hook up your keyboard and mouse through the TB plug with a converter.

Now an external RAID, SSD, or 4K monitor, now we're talkin'.

http://www.drobo.com/news/press-releases/2012/press_release_2012_06_05.php

Rocketman

theluggage
Jun 5, 2012, 12:53 PM
This is not an excuse, It's just a hub. Period.


I'm not sure the definition of "hub" is engraved in stone anywhere, but the sort of cheap USB hubs you're talking about simply share the bandwidth of one port between multiple devices. That's fine for (say) connecting a mouse, keyboard and other low bandwidth devices, but connect two disc drives to a hub and try and copy between them and things will start to crawl.

Thunderbolt hubs add new controllers, with their own bandwidth. They also add interfaces that don't exist or aren't externally accessible on the host computer (like eSATA, USB3 and, if you have an Air, FireWire). Yes, you could get a similar effect, a lot cheaper, by buying a PCIe multi-io card, but good luck plugging that into a laptop with no PCIe slots.

Cicatrix
Jun 5, 2012, 12:54 PM
f you Belkin

avanpelt
Jun 5, 2012, 12:55 PM
But what killed laserdiscs wasn't that as much as having to get up and flip the disc over to continue watching the video. Yes, the picture was great (for its time), but the inconveniences and size made dropping it a no brainer. I still have my player and a number of discs but haven't bothered plugging it in...

If having to flip the disc over killed the LD, having to pay several hundred dollars for a simple dock will most assuredly kill (or severely limit) Thunderbolt and keep it from ever becoming mainstream.

If the spec sticker on the new MBPs is legit, it would appear that Apple may see the writing on the wall that USB 3.0 is for general consumers and the low end "prosumer" market and Thunderbolt is for high end prosumers and full-on professionals. That wasn't the way Thunderbolt was initially presented by Steve, but I recognize that technologies evolve as they will and the roadmap changes to accommodate the technology.

I would feel a whole lot better about Thunderbolt if Apple would come out at WWDC and clearly articulate that Thunderbolt is for professionals and USB 3.0 is for everyone else. We're all thinking that already, but I think it's important for Apple to say that they recognize that too. Otherwise, we're going to keep waiting for prices on Thunderbolt peripherals to drop in six months and maybe that's just not in the cards right now. Apple debuted Thunderbolt to the world and I think they need to give the world a "status update" on where the technology is at present and where they see it going in the next year.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 12:58 PM
thunderbolt hubs add new controllers, with their own bandwidth. They also add interfaces that don't exist or aren't externally accessible on the host computer (like esata, usb3 and, if you have an air, firewire). Yes, you could get a similar effect, a lot cheaper, by buying a pcie multi-io card, but good luck plugging that into a laptop with no pcie slots.

this!!


All these controllers then have to be aggregated and pushed through TB and it's got to work with one single connection.

Would I rather have this at $200? Of course! But man have some of us got so jaded that we can't get excited about technology? If every device is cheap then it means everyone has it and there's not that thrill of being on of the first or few to enjoy a new device.

Time must be tough if people are lashing out at companies based on pricing.

Colpeas
Jun 5, 2012, 01:01 PM
If it's so easy. If it's "just a hub" then why aren't see seeing more options beyond the Matrox option that is far more expensive than your $100 pricing.

You guys need to be realistic.

Well, the ones who need to be more realistic are the companies who sell these overpriced accessories. How many units do they expect to sell for this price? If Apple can sell Mac Mini for $599, how much can it cost to manufacture one of these thunderbolt boxes? I don't think Belkin would lose out on this if they dropped the price to $150.

I see this on '-40% sale' three months after the release as they realize noone is buying it for their price. Imagine people going mental over it as they'd think they're getting a deal... :rolleyes:

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 5, 2012, 01:04 PM
So Apple doesn't sell iPhones for $600? Really? Ever priced an unlocked phone?

I suppose you're right. My point was that Apple doesn't raise prices, they only lower them. So the iPhone was introduced at $600 and can still be bought for $600.

Philoman
Jun 5, 2012, 01:07 PM
I noticed that Belkin pricing has been higher due to better product design but this is insulting. Or is the Belkin marketing out of their mind?

I'd rather spend the money on the Thunderbolt display to use as a dock.

Consumers just have to wait until all the other manufactures to saturate the market with the similar product. It's just a waiting game.

Greedy sellers will get left out. :mad:

Konrad
Jun 5, 2012, 01:09 PM
I am beginning to think for Belkin and others to have a better inside what cook is cooking up. It is not fu Belkin nor Matrox, apple should ensure confidence within the market by back compatibility with drilling the freaky MBP with two other ports and there would be no discussion. The TB today is a novelty and I have nothing against it.

jmgregory1
Jun 5, 2012, 01:09 PM
Others have suggested, and I agree, that I am far more apt to spend the extra $600 and get the TB display. These docks just don't present a good value proposition, IMHO.

ghostface147
Jun 5, 2012, 01:09 PM
Seagate has one. Nice, too.

It seems to need an adapter for it to work. I'd like to have one with it built in.

DavidFoster
Jun 5, 2012, 01:11 PM
This price is insanely high. $300 WITH an included thunderbolt cable would be the most bearable maximum I could imagine.

Colpeas
Jun 5, 2012, 01:13 PM
I'm not sure the definition of "hub" is engraved in stone anywhere, but the sort of cheap USB hubs you're talking about simply share the bandwidth of one port between multiple devices. That's fine for (say) connecting a mouse, keyboard and other low bandwidth devices, but connect two disc drives to a hub and try and copy between them and things will start to crawl.

Thunderbolt hubs add new controllers, with their own bandwidth. They also add interfaces that don't exist or aren't externally accessible on the host computer (like eSATA, USB3 and, if you have an Air, FireWire). Yes, you could get a similar effect, a lot cheaper, by buying a PCIe multi-io card, but good luck plugging that into a laptop with no PCIe slots.

yeah, tell me about how pricey those controllers are. I don't think it's more than $10/unit + license fees... Appreciating your point, I'll call a hi-tech hub from now on.

rmwebs
Jun 5, 2012, 01:13 PM
How do you know that Thunderbolt licensing isn't high?

To be honest, I dont know, it was more of an assumption that Intel and Apple would want this to be a lot more mainstream given how badly they screwed up with Firewire, which ultimately was due to the expensive initial license fee.

You'd have thought that getting thunderbolt licensing at a very reasonable rate would be something they would want to do, else Apple are putting an expensive port on their machines that may as well not exist for a very large chunk of its customers who are sane enough not to pay $50 just for a cable, let alone the peripherals.

Apple/Intel really aren't handeling this well. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that together, they just created a complete flop. It's an excellent technology that SHOULD be aimed at consumers (not just the pro market) to get it widely adopted.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 01:15 PM
Well, the ones who need to be more realistic are the companies who sell these overpriced accessories. How many units do they expect to sell for this price? If Apple can sell Mac Mini for $599, how much can it cost to manufacture one of these thunderbolt boxes? I don't think Belkin would lose out on this if they dropped the price to $150.

I see this on '-40% sale' three months after the release as they realize noone is buying it for their price. Imagine people going mental over it as they'd think they're getting a deal... :rolleyes:

It's the market though. Apple will sell millions of mini in a year. Belkin realistically will only sell thousands of this unit. Their aim isn't for everyone. they're aiming at probably the creative markets. Videographers, Photographers and anyone who collects hard drives with projects strewn across them.

Belkin can't drop the price to $150. The licensing for TB chips itself is likely half that and then you've got to add in all the other controllers. Are they making a profit? Yes but they've got to fund future development and provide support.

ralphthemagi
Jun 5, 2012, 01:16 PM
This isn't just a "hub". It's not even really a dock.

It's $400 because it has it's own logic controllers. It's basically a computer. Firewire, eSATA, Ethernet, audio, etc.. They aren't all just passthroughs to onboard components.

Thunderbolt extends the PCI bus. Imagine buying a PCI-e ethernet card, firewire card, eSATA controller, sound card, etc.. That's what this device actually is.

Thunderbolt isn't like USB. It's not a plug-n-play kind of thing. It gives you low-level access to the system. It essentially allows you to extend your motherboard.

The board inside the the Thunderbolt display has multiple controllers. PCIe, USB, ethernet and a audio processor.

Inside a Thunderbolt Display you will find:

Pericom PI7C9X440SL PCIe-to-USB 2.0 host controller
L129NB11 EFL Thunderbolt port controller
Analog Devices ADAV4601 audio processor
NXP LPC2144 USB 2.0 microcontroller
Delta LFE9249 10/100/1000 Base-T LAN filter
SMSC USB2517-JZX USB 2.0 hub controller
LSI L-FW643E-2 Open Host Controller Interface (Firewire Controller)
Broadcom BCM57761 Gigabit ethernet controller


You can't get that onto a shelf for $150, not even if you are doing insane volume. Belkin can't do volume. $400 is high, but reasonable.

Alexlfm
Jun 5, 2012, 01:17 PM
Don't flame. I don't really understand the purpose of these docking stations... (and thunderbold in general really) simply to add more USB and other ports? What needs to be connected? Professional peripherals and accessories? And why is thunderbolt so necessary? I know it transfers data much faster, but unless you are transfering GB of data what's the point? What difference does a thunderbolt display even make? It's not going to display the monitor any faster or anything...

Don't just say "obviously this product isn't for you". I would actually like to learn the purpose.

What you are not realizing is that the purpose of thunderbolt is not data transfer or even video (in fact Thunderbolt only carries DisplayPort and doesn't actually implement it's own video standard). For most people USB 2.0 transfer speeds are fine and nothing more is needed. Transfer is usually constrained more by the slow flash memory speed and not the protocol. USB 3 and Thunderbolt however are not meant to do the same thing, even if sometimes they are marketed as such. Thunderbolt is made to be an expansion, not accessory, interface designed around PCI express. It's purpose is to enable, hardware devices like high end graphic cards, raid devices etc. to be connected to a machine seamlessly. The idea is so that you could have a relatively low powered laptop, take it on the go, but be able to dock it or just connect it to very powerful hardware when you have a need to. Or you could do a hardware upgrade without having to open a computer up, which could also enable machines to be made smaller (Plus, lets face it most people find opening their computer up to be "scary"). Thunderbolt could also be used to connect a computer to a very fast mesh computer processing network enabling one to tap into huge amounts of power. Thunderbolt devices require more processing power and chips on the device end compared to USB as all devices are PCI-E devices. This makes it faster as processing is offloaded from the computers processor (unlike USB) and instead the devices are smarter. This means thunderbolt devices cost more, but at the same time have much more capability. USB really is a fancy version of a serial port and even with USB 3 isn't really meant to add hardware to the computer apart from modems and some storage. The one Sony thunderbolt docking laptop was a good example of thunderbolts power with a high power external thunderbolt graphics/bluray dock. While USB 3 for the most part just make things faster, thunderbolt could revolutionize computing as its basically PCI-E external. For the average consumer USB 3 is pointless as they don't feel USB 2 is slow so why would they pay more for 3? Professionals will never embrace USB 3 either as it doesn't provide half the expansion/bandwidth of thunderbolt.

While I would agree that this dock is obscenely overpriced for what it is, this is not the full extent of what thunderbolt is capable of. In the docks defense though the dock does have to have its own Network, Sata and USB controllers/chip-sets which do add up. If they could get the price down to $200 it could be a winner, though I doubt that will happen until more thunderbolt laptops are out in the while.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 01:17 PM
Apple/Intel really aren't handeling this well. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that together, they just created a complete flop. It's an excellent technology that SHOULD be aimed at consumers (not just the pro market) to get it widely adopted.

Disagree. What does the average consumer need with a 10Gbps connection? Most still think SSD are too expensive and it's the only storage that can even come close to hitting the TB limits

scottsjack
Jun 5, 2012, 01:18 PM
This dock really looks like a useful one. If a user just had to have a MBA Belkin's dock would be really handy. Would I buy one?

My answer is the same as before. Why not spend a small portion of the dock price and get a real, fully functional laptop with all of the connectivity built it, like it should be? The idea of buying a light-weight computer like a MBA or iPad and then having to carry around a bunch of junk (accessories) in a bag is just stupid.

bungiefan89
Jun 5, 2012, 01:19 PM
Why not get a USB 3 hub directly?Uh... I dunno. :p
Now that I think about it, the whole idea is pretty pointless, unless you have JUST a 2011 MBA... but in that case, it begs the question as to why you wouldn't just get a full-sized computer instead of "saving" some money by just buying the ports.

Digital Skunk
Jun 5, 2012, 01:19 PM
How long will TB be considered "new"?:rolleyes:

Considering that FireWire is almost 20 years old and still relevant I'd say give TBolt another 3 years before it becomes mainstream.

...and Apple Stores probably shift a hundred AppleTVs for every Thunderbolt cable they sell.

One of these is a bog-standard ARM system-on-a-chip and some commodity Flash RAM, not a lot different from other media players on the market.

The other has a custom chip, only used in Thunderbolt cables, inside each connector that somehow crams two bidirectional 10Gb/s channels down a bit of twisted wire.

The real con is that some people will buy their AppleTV and then spend $50 on a HDMI cable, when a totally equivalent cable (consisting of a bit of wire with passive connectors on each end) costs $5 from Amazon.

It's pretty much the norm around here. $2500 for a 15" laptop, $349 for the warranty, $145 a month for the cell phone plan (for one person), and go stark raving mad at a $400 dock that gives you four connection options via one cable.

Oh, forgot to mention, complain about the price, then suggest getting something 2.5x more expensive as an alternative. :confused:

Time must be tough if people are lashing out at companies based on pricing.

They aren't tough, people are just getting a bit carried away. I'd spit out that, "Don't like it don't buy it," suggestion at this point. Personally, I'd grab it if I was an Air owner that didn't want a glossy display attached to my hub/dock.

Or even an iMac owner looking for more expansion without taking up more desk space with a 27" monitor.

MacinDoc
Jun 5, 2012, 01:21 PM
A wireless router that is connected to your computer via (TB) wire? What is the point of that?

Or do you want to use the TC only as a NAS that doubles as dock? For the NAS part, TB would not really add much over GbitEthernet since the TC is only a single HDD unit.
Yes, I was thinking NAS and dock combined in the same physical package. The added value would be in the ability to attach additional hardware.

Or TC could be beefed up with additional drives in a RAID configuration, although as its primary function is as a backup, I'm not sure what the point would be of that. Maybe an external RAID box for professionals, but again, that would limit the market, and would require a Mac Pro upgrade.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 01:22 PM
You can't get that onto a shelf for $150, not even if you are doing insane volume. Belkin can't do volume. $400 is high, but reasonable.

Informative post! Thanks

mrr
Jun 5, 2012, 01:25 PM
Inside a Thunderbolt Display you will find:

Pericom PI7C9X440SL PCIe-to-USB 2.0 host controller
L129NB11 EFL Thunderbolt port controller
Analog Devices ADAV4601 audio processor
NXP LPC2144 USB 2.0 microcontroller
Delta LFE9249 10/100/1000 Base-T LAN filter
SMSC USB2517-JZX USB 2.0 hub controller
LSI L-FW643E-2 Open Host Controller Interface (Firewire Controller)
Broadcom BCM57761 Gigabit ethernet controller



Big names for a lot of parts that don't cost a lot of money! Add them up.

Wicked1
Jun 5, 2012, 01:25 PM
good luck selling them for $399, they were not selling from what I read even at $299

I bet the stupid thing only costs like $99 to make and most likely assembled in China somewhere.

blackhand1001
Jun 5, 2012, 01:25 PM
This isn't just a "hub". It's not even really a dock.

It's $400 because it has it's own logic controllers. It's basically a computer. Firewire, eSATA, Ethernet, audio, etc.. They aren't all just passthroughs to onboard components.

Thunderbolt extends the PCI bus. Imagine buying a PCI-e ethernet card, firewire card, eSATA controller, sound card, etc.. That's what this device actually is.

Thunderbolt isn't like USB. It's not a plug-n-play kind of thing. It gives you low-level access to the system. It essentially allows you to extend your motherboard.

The board inside the the Thunderbolt display has multiple controllers. PCIe, USB, ethernet and a audio processor.

Inside a Thunderbolt Display you will find:

Pericom PI7C9X440SL PCIe-to-USB 2.0 host controller
L129NB11 EFL Thunderbolt port controller
Analog Devices ADAV4601 audio processor
NXP LPC2144 USB 2.0 microcontroller
Delta LFE9249 10/100/1000 Base-T LAN filter
SMSC USB2517-JZX USB 2.0 hub controller
LSI L-FW643E-2 Open Host Controller Interface (Firewire Controller)
Broadcom BCM57761 Gigabit ethernet controller


You can't get that onto a shelf for $150, not even if you are doing insane volume. Belkin can't do volume. $400 is high, but reasonable.

You can buy a computer with everyone of these ports for 450 dollars which is what this and the cable cost.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 01:29 PM
good luck selling them for $399, they were not selling from what I read even at $299

I bet the stupid thing only costs like $99 to make and most likely assembled in China somewhere.

They are not shipping until September and that's always been the ship date so i'm not exactly sure what you read.

You can buy a computer with everyone of these ports for 450 dollars which is what this and the cable cost.

Show me a $450 computer with Thunderbolt and Firewire please

ericinboston
Jun 5, 2012, 01:29 PM
The people that need a single cable dock. If modern day docks like the HP dock I linked early are in the $200 range without the flexibility then is it too far a reach to think that there are plenty of people what would spend more for a faster and more flexible dock?


If a customer (consumer or pro) is so anal that they need a 1 cable system, go for it...spend $400 on your mental problem.

Some options:

1)Others entertain the idea of the iMac where the monitor is already built into the computer and a wireless keyboard and mouse comes standard...0 wires already except for the power cord and maybe ethernet.

2)Get a laptop and add a wireless mouse if needed


There has been so much emphasis (especially from Apple) over the past 10 years about cutting cords. Fine. I have numerous desktops and the only cords are the power and ethernet. I use inexpensive wireless mice and keyboards they word extremely well. If I want to offload something to my USB hard drive, gosh, I plug it in for 15 minutes. Is it really that hard or that much of an annoyance that I now want a "dock" to manage something here and there?

The only "docks" I've ever considered were laptop docks back in the late 90s...but again, almost everything is wireless and/or so many inputs/outputs on the computers that docks are only needed for the very niche use case.

Wingsnbeer
Jun 5, 2012, 01:30 PM
This product is from Belkin. I don't know why you are bringing Apple and Macbooks in this discussion.

Why? Because given the price tag of existing MB Pros I shouldn't have to fork out another $400 for ports that I want. I view the MB Air has the MB for average user. The MB Pro should be portable version of the Mac Pro. I want all the ports, power, storage, etc... that can be shoe horned into that thing.

benpatient
Jun 5, 2012, 01:36 PM
This isn't just a "hub". It's not even really a dock.

It's $400 because it has it's own logic controllers. It's basically a computer. Firewire, eSATA, Ethernet, audio, etc.. They aren't all just passthroughs to onboard components.

Thunderbolt extends the PCI bus. Imagine buying a PCI-e ethernet card, firewire card, eSATA controller, sound card, etc.. That's what this device actually is.

Thunderbolt isn't like USB. It's not a plug-n-play kind of thing. It gives you low-level access to the system. It essentially allows you to extend your motherboard.

The board inside the the Thunderbolt display has multiple controllers. PCIe, USB, ethernet and a audio processor.

Inside a Thunderbolt Display you will find:

Pericom PI7C9X440SL PCIe-to-USB 2.0 host controller
L129NB11 EFL Thunderbolt port controller
Analog Devices ADAV4601 audio processor
NXP LPC2144 USB 2.0 microcontroller
Delta LFE9249 10/100/1000 Base-T LAN filter
SMSC USB2517-JZX USB 2.0 hub controller
LSI L-FW643E-2 Open Host Controller Interface (Firewire Controller)
Broadcom BCM57761 Gigabit ethernet controller


You can't get that onto a shelf for $150, not even if you are doing insane volume. Belkin can't do volume. $400 is high, but reasonable.

Apple isn't doing "insane volume" on the 27 inch thunderbolt displays. They are charging the same SRP as the Dell 27inch high-res display that is essentially the same, only Apple put more stuff in it, and Dell made theirs anti-glare instead of glassy.

That, combined with Apple's general penchant for making a LOT of money on every product they sell, lets me know that there isn't a lot of actual costs in the interface controllers, etc in the 27" Apple display. Take away the FW800 controller, the thunderbolt ports, the ethernet, and the speakers, sub in a couple additional video-only ports (HDMI and DVI, maybe component, I can't remember at the moment), and you get the same SRP as a Dell? Dell may have their perpetually on sale for 899, but there is no way all of those added Apple "dock" components are costing them 100 bucks.

You can get all of those ports and controllers, plus a COMPUTER with storage and RAM and a processor and a power brick, in the form of a mac mini, for 100 bucks more than this belkin hub. Who in their right mind?

50548
Jun 5, 2012, 01:38 PM
400 bucks? What are they smokin'?

Actually 450 bucks...the cable is NOT included. :D Oh well...at least it LOOKS better than the one from Matrox.

cult hero
Jun 5, 2012, 01:39 PM
Seriously? I guess people with more money than brains. I actually really want one of these but... BUT... not for $450. That's just absurd.

I can't imagine prices are going to stay this high. I could be wrong, of course, but this is just nonsensically expensive. The CEO of my company is about the only person I can see getting something like this... except he's already sporting a pair of Thunderbolt displays.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 01:39 PM
You can get all of those ports and controllers, plus a COMPUTER with storage and RAM and a processor and a power brick, in the form of a mac mini, for 100 bucks more than this belkin hub. Who in their right mind?

The Mac mini isn't a dock. I can't hook my MBA up to a mini and suddenly start using its Ethernet or FW800 ports.

The mini doesn't have eSATA nor does it have USB 3.0.

The Belkin product is not aimed at your typical consumer. For some people it's what they need for quickly moving from mobility to desktop workstation. Time is money for some people and $400 isn't gonna be a deal breaker always.

TEG
Jun 5, 2012, 01:41 PM
TB is an input. These are designed to be a form of docking station. Presumably you should have all your desktop stuff plugged into the back already. Walk up with a laptop and plug into the TB port.

The way It looks to me, The dock should be on the desk with everything connected to the back (everything), with a USB port or two on the front for thumb drives. Otherwise, there doesn't seem to be a point to the shiny silver front.

TEG

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 01:41 PM
Seriously? I guess people with more money than brains. I actually really want one of these but... BUT... not for $450. That's just absurd.

I can't imagine prices are going to stay this high. I could be wrong, of course, but this is just nonsensically expensive. The CEO of my company is about the only person I can see getting something like this... except he's already sporting a pair of Thunderbolt displays.

Do you actually need one?

comatory
Jun 5, 2012, 01:44 PM
This is clearly not aimed at regular consumer. $400 is a great price for what it offers. it'll drop in time.

most of us here spent $999 and upwards on a computer, most of us spend $$/month on Apps. for $400 you'll have a solution that will last you years and offers great flexibility. you'll be getting pass-through TBs with astounding speed, multimonitor setup, daisy-chained storage boxes and still be able to connect legacy stuff like firewire camcorders/decks and wired ethernet.

i am video editor and this kind of technology is what our industry was dreaming of 12 years ago when laptop editing was starting to take off. now the dream comes true.
dreams come with a price though.

DisMyMac
Jun 5, 2012, 01:45 PM
How are 99% of people supposed to compete with the rich moving data so fast? :mad:

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 01:48 PM
i am video editor and this kind of technology is what our industry was dreaming of 12 years ago when laptop editing was starting to take off. now the dream comes true.
dreams come with a price though.

I chat with photogs all the time and most of them have a minimum of 3 large drives that they store and backup photos to. Many have to do the good ole drive swap because they don't have enough ports.

They will be all over this. For the price of a cheap lens they will be able to plug in back in the lab and instantly be connected to multiple drives, the display of their choice, audio and even a HDTV if they want.

This is actually fantastic technology and I think the reason why some are upset is because they really want it but feel like it's going to be out of their price range.

The price will come down but until then people that need it will buy it and create the market for TB docks.

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 01:50 PM
Nope.

But this isn't as bad as HP's docking station. Those things cost over $1000 back in the late 90s.

----------

How are 99% of people supposed to compete with the rich moving data so fast? :mad:

"Rich moving data"?

Well I stick with FireWire 400. @#$% Thunderbolt :rolleyes:

theluggage
Jun 5, 2012, 01:50 PM
yeah, tell me about how pricey those controllers are. I don't think it's more than $10/unit + license fees...

...then train your electronics engineers up on the TB chipset, design a circuit to hook them all together, test and debug it (probably come up with Mac drivers for USB3), tool up for manufacturing the PCB and the case, get it tested for EM emissions, standards compliance... Finally, manufacture enough to enable all the major suppliers to carry a stock (mainly at your own risk)... Then find out how many will sell.

All this when your potential market consists of some subset of people who have a <18-month old Mac.

If you think you can price a new product by just adding up the list prices of the chips plus a few bucks for the manufacturer's trouble, you really need Business 101.

Electronics manufacture has huge up-front start-up costs and small additional per-unit costs. Spread those costs over a million units and they become tiny. Only make a few thousand units and they look very expensive.

You can sell standard USB gadgets for peanuts because you can sell them by the million.

Yes - they probably are making a hefty mark-up on TB stuff because that's what you have to do for a new product in a small market if you want to recoup your startup costs.

That's one reason why all the Amigas and Acorns and Apricots disappeared, and why Apple eventually switched to Intel: you can't compete with generic PC hardware on price because of the economies of scale in the PC market.

BiggAW
Jun 5, 2012, 01:50 PM
Firewire?

When that came out, people harped on it being like USB and the only device that supported it was the iPod that people came into contact with. It helped Adaptec sell a bunch of add-on cards for PeeCee users to get the port for their iPod, but aside from some niche products, and Sony's private named Firewire, for the average user, Firewire was not the 'end all be all' that it was touted as being. Now so many systems come with it but most people don't know what it was for, and don't care, and it's starting to disappear now too. If it was to be the 'USB killer', it failed... I still have a new Adaptec Firewire card here that I never used. It holds down papers on a shelf...

And I'm talking the 'average user'.

At least Firewire was the big thing for DV cameras for a few years. I used it a lot. I can't ever see myself using TB, unless a whole new crop of cheaper, better, more flexible products come out for it, which I doubt, as USB 3.0 will take over.

mrr
Jun 5, 2012, 01:54 PM
How are 99% of people supposed to compete with the rich moving data so fast? :mad:

This thing is clearly marketed toward the 1%

chiefsilverback
Jun 5, 2012, 02:01 PM
Reading this all the posts here is like watching lots of babies throwing lots of toys out of lots of prams! Ultimately the cost of this technology will come down and make it more accessible to the masses, but for now it's a cutting edge solution targetted at a select few users.

Yes you can almost buy an iPad for the same money, or pay twice as much and get a Thunderbolt Display but how does that help you if you want to attach a USB 3 or eSATA device to your Thunderbolt equipt Mac?

I have a pair of OWC external drives connected to my 2008 iMac via FW800 (much better than USB 2). When I upgrade to a new iMac with Thunderbolt I can buy a device like this (I'd actually go for the LaCie with 2 eSATA ports) to connect my existing drives to my new computer at the fastest speed possible.

If the $450 is more than you want to pay for this device then you don't need it. Are digital medium format cameras and 4K video cameras and Ferraris and Rolexes "dead in the water" or a "bag of hurt" because the vast majority can't afford them?

eaf7s
Jun 5, 2012, 02:02 PM
It is overpriced, but I'm surprised you don't understand the concept of a dock. This would be great for laptop owners who like to use their laptops as desktops at home. Only one cable to connect your monitor, ethernet and all your USB 2/3 and firewire devices to your computer.

It's just a shame that this universal dock costs as much or more than the proprietary docks of the past.

While I agree with you, I'd rather save $400 and just have a few extra cables to plug in when I get home...

ralphthemagi
Jun 5, 2012, 02:02 PM
Big names for a lot of parts that don't cost a lot of money! Add them up.

It doesn't work like that.

You don't just add up the price of microcontrollers in volume of 100k and then arrive at a "price".

JAT
Jun 5, 2012, 02:03 PM
If a customer (consumer or pro) is so anal that they need a 1 cable system, go for it...spend $400 on your mental problem.

Some options:

1)Others entertain the idea of the iMac where the monitor is already built into the computer and a wireless keyboard and mouse comes standard...0 wires already except for the power cord and maybe ethernet.

2)Get a laptop and add a wireless mouse if needed


There has been so much emphasis (especially from Apple) over the past 10 years about cutting cords. Fine. I have numerous desktops and the only cords are the power and ethernet. I use inexpensive wireless mice and keyboards they word extremely well. If I want to offload something to my USB hard drive, gosh, I plug it in for 15 minutes. Is it really that hard or that much of an annoyance that I now want a "dock" to manage something here and there?

The only "docks" I've ever considered were laptop docks back in the late 90s...but again, almost everything is wireless and/or so many inputs/outputs on the computers that docks are only needed for the very niche use case.
You understand that most dock users are Win users, yes? So, your normal anti-Apple diatribes are backfiring.

theSeb
Jun 5, 2012, 02:05 PM
Considering that FireWire is almost 20 years old and still relevant I'd say give TBolt another 3 years before it becomes mainstream.



It's pretty much the norm around here. $2500 for a 15" laptop, $349 for the warranty, $145 a month for the cell phone plan (for one person), and go stark raving mad at a $400 dock that gives you four connection options via one cable.

Oh, forgot to mention, complain about the price, then suggest getting something 2.5x more expensive as an alternative. :confused:



They aren't tough, people are just getting a bit carried away. I'd spit out that, "Don't like it don't buy it," suggestion at this point. Personally, I'd grab it if I was an Air owner that didn't want a glossy display attached to my hub/dock.

Or even an iMac owner looking for more expansion without taking up more desk space with a 27" monitor.
Your posts are far too sensible and logical for this place. Just a couple of weeks ago we had the pros complaining about the possible loss of FireWire and Ethernet. Now there is a solution that will solve that problem and more, yet that is still not good enough.

----------

Reading this all the posts here is like watching lots of babies throwing lots of toys out of lots of prams! Ultimately the cost of this technology will come down and make it more accessible to the masses, but for now it's a cutting edge solution targetted at a select few users.

Yes you can almost buy an iPad for the same money, or pay twice as much and get a Thunderbolt Display but how does that help you if you want to attach a USB 3 or eSATA device to your Thunderbolt equipt Mac?

I have a pair of OWC external drives connected to my 2008 iMac via FW800 (much better than USB 2). When I upgrade to a new iMac with Thunderbolt I can buy a device like this (I'd actually go for the LaCie with 2 eSATA ports) to connect my existing drives to my new computer at the fastest speed possible.

If the $450 is more than you want to pay for this device then you don't need it. Are digital medium format cameras and 4K video cameras and Ferraris and Rolexes "dead in the water" or a "bag of hurt" because the vast majority can't afford them?
Wow. Another sensible post. Thank you.

ralphthemagi
Jun 5, 2012, 02:07 PM
Apple isn't doing "insane volume" on the 27 inch thunderbolt displays. They are charging the same SRP as the Dell 27inch high-res display that is essentially the same, only Apple put more stuff in it, and Dell made theirs anti-glare instead of glassy.

That, combined with Apple's general penchant for making a LOT of money on every product they sell, lets me know that there isn't a lot of actual costs in the interface controllers, etc in the 27" Apple display. Take away the FW800 controller, the thunderbolt ports, the ethernet, and the speakers, sub in a couple additional video-only ports (HDMI and DVI, maybe component, I can't remember at the moment), and you get the same SRP as a Dell? Dell may have their perpetually on sale for 899, but there is no way all of those added Apple "dock" components are costing them 100 bucks.

You can get all of those ports and controllers, plus a COMPUTER with storage and RAM and a processor and a power brick, in the form of a mac mini, for 100 bucks more than this belkin hub. Who in their right mind?

They are doing massive volume. Maybe not for that individual part, but with the supplier and manufacturer.

The Belkin hub is a expensive, but not unreasonable. It's a low volume product. After Thunderbolt has been in channel for 3-4 years and every Mac has a Thunderbolt part they'll be able to consider volume and bring the price down…if Apple doesn't come out with their own solution for cheaper.

It's risky for anyone to even go down the path of creating one of these in the first place. It may never even reach retail. Next week Apple could release a new SuperDrive that comes with all these ports for $249, and the Belkin product becomes obsolete before it even reaches final production.

comatory
Jun 5, 2012, 02:18 PM
You can get all of those ports and controllers, plus a COMPUTER with storage and RAM and a processor and a power brick, in the form of a mac mini, for 100 bucks more than this belkin hub. Who in their right mind?

I don't wanna be rude but why are people still mentioning Mac Mini in context of this hub? Why? Mac Mini is not hub, it's a computer, you cannot use it as a hub.

As others have already mentioned: this is solution for that VERY small number of people and Pro's that rely on Ethernet and Firewire.
Apple will maybe drop Ethernet and Firewire on new MBP to allow it to be more powerful and smaller. MOST people won't mind - those who do will buy box such as this.

yg17
Jun 5, 2012, 02:21 PM
Nope.

But this isn't as bad as HP's docking station. Those things cost over $1000 back in the late 90s.


In the late 90s, when everything was more expensive.

The dock for my HP work laptop is around $150 and has a bunch of USB ports, DVI, VGA and Mini Display port, gigabit ethernet, audio in/out, and it charges my laptop too.

Thunderhawks
Jun 5, 2012, 02:21 PM
While I agree with you, I'd rather save $400 and just have a few extra cables to plug in when I get home...

Amen!

While it is annoying, I can plug in a lot of cables for $ 400 plus.

Did anybody notice it doesn't have DVI like the Matrox?

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 02:24 PM
"Thunderbolt's going to fail like Firewire"

LOL


http://www.anandtech.com/show/5884/thunderbolt-on-windows-part-2-intels-dz77rek75-asus-p8z77v-premium

Difference is Intel controls the motherboard market.

----------

Amen!

While it is annoying, I can plug in a lot of cables for $ 400 plus.

Did anybody notice it doesn't have DVI like the Matrox?

Good thing. mDP to DVI adapter is easy.

mctape
Jun 5, 2012, 02:24 PM
They've got to be kidding with that price.

awer25
Jun 5, 2012, 02:28 PM
I'm still waiting for a company to have a thunderbolt portable hard drive. None of those expensive raid arrays, just a simple 1 terabyte drive I can use for time machine.

Seagate makes one which includes a Thunderbolt cable, but it's $275 (http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Ultra-Portable-External-Thunderbolt-STBA1000104/dp/B007IJ7T4G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1338924245&sr=8-3).

You can get just the TB adapter (no cable, no drive) for $99 (http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-GoFlex-Thunderbolt-Adapter-STAE121/dp/B006P1QWOQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_1).

They also have a desktop-sized 3TB kit which includes a 2-port TB adapter (portable version is just 1-port) for $410 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007IJ7UHC).

chadley_chad
Jun 5, 2012, 02:32 PM
At that price I presume it has a core i5 chip, HDD and tv out hidden away inside it somewhere?

Apple Corps
Jun 5, 2012, 02:41 PM
chiefsilverback - you bet it is a bag of hurt. A year and a half ago I got my 17" MBP with Thunderbolt - magnificent bandwidth - GB speeds - yada yada.

Now, a year and a half later there is still soooooo little to connect to it.

I'm not even addressing price as the main issue - it is a connection with very little to connect to it.

HKZ/MST3K
Jun 5, 2012, 02:45 PM
Would I rather have this at $200? Of course! But man have some of us got so jaded that we can't get excited about technology? If every device is cheap then it means everyone has it and there's not that thrill of being one of the first or few to enjoy a new device.

Times must be tough if people are lashing out at companies based on pricing.

Did you really just say that last line? Where the hell have you been for the last 10 years? The economy went to **** a long time ago and this dock is way overpriced and the Matrox one is utter **** for $250. You're willing to get completely ripped off because you want to be the first to own something? You really get a giddy feeling from being overcharged for a product? Are you that self absorbed? Having something first and paying way too much for it is utter stupidity.

ThunderBolt WILL die in the consumer market. The killer? USB 3. ThunderBolt is simply too expensive and no one is making anything worth buying at the price they can pay. I can get USB 3 drives and accessories all day long at reasonable prices. Same with eSata. Can I plug all those into my MacBook at once with one cable? No. But I can buy those devices and plug them all in for way less than this stupidly overpriced dock. This is absolutely ridiculous for what it is. At $150 it's a decent deal. $400 and a $50 cable it's laugh worthy. They will not make enough sales on this to keep it going and they'll never break into the market of vast majority of newer Mac owners. You know who will make a ton of money? The ones with USB 3 connectors on their products. Why? It's very fast and is backwards compatible with USB 2 products with number in the hundreds of millions. Sure they're slow, but they work.

ThunderBolt is a terrible waste if the only accessories that mainstream buyers will see is a $400 dock or a way overpriced and size restricted SSD as an external drive. Those with media libraries and the need to transfer large amounts of data aren't the average Mac and PC buyer. This appeals to them and is probably a decent deal. To me? Junk. Overpriced junk. If Apple doesn't start using USB 3 in their computer offerings and use it to sync iOS devices they are going to be way behind for future devices. FireWire is pretty good but it too is overpriced and rare. Pushig ThunderBolt will be a massive mistake if they continue to cripple themselves with older port specs. People still buy Macs in the millions, but I'm willing to bet every single one would like to have, or be pleasantly surprised to have USB 3 ports on their new Macs. I know I would. There's simply no excuse to keep using Thunderbolt if everything that uses it is massively overpriced and rare and alternatives like USB 3 are left out while they establish good market foothold and prices.

If this next generation of iOS devices and Mac don't support USB 3 they are really going to suffer. Maybe not financially but they will suffer from user disappointment. I won't buy another Mac or another iOS device until they do. ThunderBolt is a complete waste for me because nothing supports it, everything that does is way overpriced and alternatives for what I do use everyday have quickly surpassed what Apple offers. ThunderBolt is completely useless if you don't have anything to plug into it.

(DISCLAIMER: I love my MacBook Pro and would never buy another PC. Ever. I won't buy another Mac either unless they really stop using legacy or dead ports. Them time to leave USB2 and FW behind was at least 2 years ago. Apple NEEDS USB 3 and or eSata. What they offer now just isn't good enough anymore.)

comatory
Jun 5, 2012, 02:55 PM
USB 3 ports will most likely be present on new Macs. I think you shouldn't compare USB3 to Thunderbolt. They're different things aimed at different users - and with different prices.

Think of it as USB2 and FireWire that was present on Macs before introduction of TB. Majority of people used USB2 - FireWire was used when the bandwith of USB wasn't enough, it was WIDELY used with DV Camcorders and decks in video industry. You can do specialized tasks with Firewire such as target disk mode.

And the situation will be similar now with TB. You'll have USB3 for plugging thumbsticks and drives for average joe and then you'll have TB for the Pro stuff, much like Firewire used to be/is.

If $400 seems like too much to you, then it isn't probably worth to you. Then you'll keep plugging video cables and data cables. For pro crowd and power users the high bandwith, flexibility and added expandability will justify the price easily.

3-4 years from now on these will probably cost $100 or so.

Richdmoore
Jun 5, 2012, 02:59 PM
Why not get a USB 3 hub directly?

Agreed, I think a better use than a thunderbolt to USB 2 (which is already in every thunderbolt mac) is to add USB 3.

I do disagree that there would not need to be a pass thru thunderbolt port, as end of the chain only devices exclude second monitor use (unless you own the pricy apple thunderbolt display.)

My ideal device, 2 thunderbolt ports, USB 3, eSATA as a bonus feature.

If the new macs have usb 3, it may hurt the sales of a USB 3 adapter, but with USB 3 drivers made by apple, it shouldn't be very much R&D for the manufacturers to produce vs the extra steps of writing compatible drivers.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 02:59 PM
USB is not multi-protocol

It's simply not suitable for some of the things that Thunderbolt can do. Thunderbolt is PCI-Express and that comes with it some significant advantages. Intel will most likely add this to the mainboard as soon as Haswell and the chipsets will continue to integrate and get cheaper.

USB 3.0 has been out a few years now and it's just now getting integrated on the motherboard.

Folks...relax and enjoy the ride.

HKZ/MST3K
Jun 5, 2012, 03:02 PM
If the $450 is more than you want to pay for this device then you don't need it. Are digital medium format cameras and 4K video cameras and Ferraris and Rolexes "dead in the water" or a "bag of hurt" because the vast majority can't afford them?

That would make sense if it applied to this situation at all. Which it doesn't. 4K cameras aren't common and don't matter to people buying Macs, only video professionals with tools that are already available to them. You do realize that there are other alternatives to Ferraris and Rolexs right? On any new Mac you have the ancient and slow USB2 and the overpriced and rare FireWire. No alternatives but this overpriced crap from Belkin. Nothing else on the Mac is faster than 10-15 year old tech, there are cars and watches just as nice and just as fast as Ferraris and Rolexs on the market. Exception with Apple is that you have a port that has nothing valuable for 99% of the user base and the alternatives are outright ancient in the computer world.

Apple didn't give anyone a choice. You want a Mac you get 1 really fast but basically useless port and you get glacially slow USB and rare and expensive FireWire. eSata and USB 3 are very well fleshed out and prices are falling by the day. I have an alternative to the Ferrari and the Rolex, I don't have an alternative to Thunderbolt on a Mac and it's a shame because very good alternatives exist but Apple hasn't allowed them. Probably because it'll eat into Thunderbolt accessory sales and the push for their displays (though I really really want a 27" ACD but can't realistically justify buying). If and when they release Macs with USB 3, Firewire and Thunderbolt accessory sales will almost certainly take a serious nosedive. There's no use for Thunderbolt for 90% of the user base, everything is going USB 3 because it's cheaper, really fast and backwards compatible. eSata is smoking fast and just as cheap.

I love my MacBook Pro, but if Apple still refuses to replace USB 2 and FireWire with what are much better alternatives it'll be the last Mac I buy. Same goes for iOS devices. If they don't drop USB 2 for USB 3, like next week and across the entire Mac and iOS lineup, I'm gone there too. It's becoming too little too late for expansion ports on the Mac. It may be that I'm overreacting but Apple usually leads by years in areas like this and they are falling way behind. Way behind.

notabadname
Jun 5, 2012, 03:05 PM
I just wish I could get a Thunderbolt PCI card to upgrade my 2010 Mac Pro to the capability.

HKZ/MST3K
Jun 5, 2012, 03:06 PM
USB 3 ports will most likely be present on new Macs. I think you shouldn't compare USB3 to Thunderbolt. They're different things aimed at different users - and with different prices.

I understand that completely and I agree with you. I meant my comparison in that the ratio of USB 3 users to Thunderbolt users is likely 5000 to 1 and hence much more important in the bigger scheme of things. Thunderbolt for 99% of Mac users is simply pointless. USB 3 is much faster and more useful than USB 2 yet is backwards compatible.

nuckinfutz
Jun 5, 2012, 03:09 PM
I love my MacBook Pro, but if Apple still refuses to replace USB 2 and FireWire with what are much better alternatives it'll be the last Mac I buy. Same goes for iOS devices. If they don't drop USB 2 for USB 3, like next week and across the entire Mac and iOS lineup, I'm gone there too. It's becoming too little too late for expansion ports on the Mac. It may be that I'm overreacting but Apple usually leads by years in areas like this and they are falling way behind. Way behind.

The next MBP will have USB 3.0, Thunderbolt and whatever else is important. You have nothing to fear. No Apple is ahead of the game. They've been shipping Thunderbolt for a year now. Just because you don't use it doesn't make it valuable.

faroZ06
Jun 5, 2012, 03:31 PM
In the late 90s, when everything was more expensive.

The dock for my HP work laptop is around $150 and has a bunch of USB ports, DVI, VGA and Mini Display port, gigabit ethernet, audio in/out, and it charges my laptop too.

Yeah, I know. Belkin's products are usually overpriced.

DocNYz
Jun 5, 2012, 03:38 PM
This has a high price point, but I'm willing to pay for this only because I DJ. As a DJ you almost always have a mess of cords. I can tuck this item into my coffin case and plug my external drive, my mixer and my CDJs directly into this. When i run video as well i can plug in my APC40 and my video output into this as well. All those items are then connected to my Macbook pro via a single cable, while the mess of cords is organized and tucked into the coffin case. No plugging and unplugging everything before and after the show. I love it!

Exactly, this isn't something for everyone, it's for people who need it. As half of the people have been saying here, like all technology, first adopters will pay extra, kinks will be worked out, and then it'll cost less as time passes.

Funny, when I first saw that I thought it was a printer.

Haha me too.

And this is why Thunderbolt will be FireWire Part II, folks.

Yeah a superior product that professionals used for over a decade daily, not everything is for everyone, it's not complicated. Just because you don't use something doesn't mean thousands if not millions of other consumers and/or prosumers don't as well.

Reading this all the posts here is like watching lots of babies throwing lots of toys out of lots of prams! Ultimately the cost of this technology will come down and make it more accessible to the masses, but for now it's a cutting edge solution targetted at a select few users.

Yes you can almost buy an iPad for the same money, or pay twice as much and get a Thunderbolt Display but how does that help you if you want to attach a USB 3 or eSATA device to your Thunderbolt equipt Mac?

I have a pair of OWC external drives connected to my 2008 iMac via FW800 (much better than USB 2). When I upgrade to a new iMac with Thunderbolt I can buy a device like this (I'd actually go for the LaCie with 2 eSATA ports) to connect my existing drives to my new computer at the fastest speed possible.

If the $450 is more than you want to pay for this device then you don't need it. Are digital medium format cameras and 4K video cameras and Ferraris and Rolexes "dead in the water" or a "bag of hurt" because the vast majority can't afford them?

Hahahah.

Seagate makes one which includes a Thunderbolt cable, but it's $275 (http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Ultra-Portable-External-Thunderbolt-STBA1000104/dp/B007IJ7T4G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1338924245&sr=8-3).

You can get just the TB adapter (no cable, no drive) for $99 (http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-GoFlex-Thunderbolt-Adapter-STAE121/dp/B006P1QWOQ/ref=pd_sim_sbs_pc_1).

They also have a desktop-sized 3TB kit which includes a 2-port TB adapter (portable version is just 1-port) for $410 (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007IJ7UHC).

My friends/fam/colleagues' GoFlex drives from Seagate have been working great so far and have the absolute most versatility.

USB is not multi-protocol

It's simply not suitable for some of the things that Thunderbolt can do. Thunderbolt is PCI-Express and that comes with it some significant advantages. Intel will most likely add this to the mainboard as soon as Haswell and the chipsets will continue to integrate and get cheaper.

USB 3.0 has been out a few years now and it's just now getting integrated on the motherboard.

Folks...relax and enjoy the ride.

Yeah if you don't want it just don't get it, complaining here is not going to make the price lower. Take it easy and we'll all see in a couple years where everything is headed.