Coach paid kid to hurt disabled teammate

[iSaint]

Link to SI Story (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/more/07/15/bc.bbo.youngplayerhurt.ap/index.html?cnn=yes)

...at what price victory? This made me ill.

[asif786]

this is so disgusting.

i don't know what they're gonna do to this coach, but i hope he gets exactly what's coming to him.

this sort of thing makes me sick..

[ham_man]

T-ball?!?! Before I thought that people could stoop no lower, I was proved wrong. Very wrong...

[tech4all]

That's just sick. Sad how serious T-Ball is now these days :rolleyes: :mad:

[grapes911]

If he was really that concerned about winning, you think he'd coach a more competitive league than T-ball.

[dmw007]

Disgusting.

[barneygumble]

I do not know what to say, sport is taken fare to seriously everywhere, perhaps if our professional athletes set a better example it would not come to this it is all about winning instead of just having fun like it used to be

[Mechcozmo]

I wonder if we know the entire story?

Sounds horrible though.

[Jedda]

Just disgusting.

[Phat_Pat]

Just wrong.

[scem0]

Get that man away from children immediately.

scem0

[Counterfit]

Get that man away from children immediately.

scem0
I think you give it too much credit...

[Lacero]

I could think of more nefarious means, but the thought itself is sickening, but to do it to a mentally handicapped person is inexcusable. Lifetime ban from coaching and teaching minors is in order.

[Nickygoat]

I wonder if we know the entire story?

Sounds horrible though.
What circumstances can you think of that would mitigate that? Even thinking of that idea is pretty sick, but to carry it out is truly appalling.

[grapes911]

I do not know what to say, sport is taken fare to seriously everywhere, perhaps if our professional athletes set a better example it would not come to this it is all about winning instead of just having fun like it used to beI don't agree. Professional athletes are paid to win, not to have fun. I play semi-pro baseball. The league is very competitive. I play to win because winning is fun for me. I do not go as far as to violate the rules or intentionally hurt people though. If I wanted to play just to play, I'd play in more of a recreational league or a beer league. T-ball is more of a recreational league and cannot be compared to Professional sports or any competitive league.

[Mr. Anderson]

And how old are the kids playing T-Ball? This isn't right - and I'm sure the parents of the kid who were hit might go after the idiot as well. This is just so sad....

D

[miloblithe]

I don't agree. Professional athletes are paid to win, not to have fun. I play semi-pro baseball. The league is very competitive. I play to win because winning is fun for me. I do not go as far as to violate the rules or intentionally hurt people though. If I wanted to play just to play, I'd play in more of a recreational league or a beer league. T-ball is more of a recreational league and cannot be compared to Professional sports or any competitive league.

True, but I think that the Tiger Woods/Williams sisters idea has made a lot of parents look at their little children as future superstars if only they push them every single day to become so. There are a lot of these stories about adults taking children's sports way too seriously. Professional sports set certain tones and gives us certain idols, for both coaches and athletes. I don't think that's the fault of professional sports though. I think it's the fault of adults who misinterpret that professionalism as something that's appropriate for children.

[Abstract]

The punishment should be this ---- he should be hit until he's mentally disabled. And THEN he should be made to play T-ball. We can watch how good he can play with a disability.

Then we should hit him with baseballs. And hammers.

[grapes911]

I don't think that's the fault of professional sports though. I think it's the fault of adults who misinterpret that professionalism as something that's appropriate for children.I couldn't have said it any better myself. :cool:

[zap2]

a sad day when this happens

[MacDawg]

I wonder if we know the entire story?

Sounds horrible though.

I'm a little skeptical myself, I think there is more to this story than we've heard. I'm not saying I think he is innocent, but I think there is more to the story.

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[superbovine]

that is kind of low. i sucked at t-ball. i was always put way back in the line-up and outfield and the coaches really only cared about the good players, and never tried to encourages me. however, they just cut me for next season (for baseball), they never tried to hurt me.

[iSaint]

I'm a little skeptical myself, I think there is more to this story than we've heard. I'm not saying I think he is innocent, but I think there is more to the story.


I'm usually pretty skeptical about news stories that defy the mind, or the potential (good or bad) of human beings. But I don't know what else could be behind this story. I tried to do a Google search to find more info but didn't really find anything. Maybe there's a MacRumors member from the area who knows a little more.

[efoto]

That is just plain sickening. Regardless of him wanting to win or not, what happened to children's sports being for the children!?

Crazy, I sure hope he gets something awful, he deserves it (the coach). I hope the kid gets lectured too so he doesn't think things like that are alright.

[CanadaRAM]

that is kind of low. i sucked at t-ball. i was always put way back in the line-up and outfield and the coaches really only cared about the good players, and never tried to encourages me. however, they just cut me for next season (for baseball), they never tried to hurt me.
T-ball is what -- 6 and 7 year olds? The coaches were concerned about winning?!?

I spent time coaching and umping little league -- in our league we never kept score in T-Ball - every game turned out to be a tie.

ANY kid who wanted to play could play, and every kid got equal field time and rotated through positions. Catcher and pitcher in Minors were the only skill-limited positions for obvious reasons (there is no pitcher and catcher in T-Ball). No kid was allowed to be "cut" unless there were severe discipline problems, and that had to go through the league.

We had league executives at each game, too, who could (and did) eject parents and spectators from the park for being obnoxious or insulting.

[ham_man]

T-ball is what -- 6 and 7 year olds? The coaches were concerned about winning?!?

I spent time coaching and umping little league -- in our league we never kept score in T-Ball - every game turned out to be a tie.

ANY kid who wanted to play could play, and every kid got equal field time and rotated through positions. Catcher and pitcher in Minors were the only skill-limited positions for obvious reasons (there is no pitcher and catcher in T-Ball). No kid was allowed to be "cut" unless there were severe discipline problems, and that had to go through the league.

Yea, I recalled that we never kept score in T-Ball either, which makes this story all the more confusing...

[superbovine]

T-ball is what -- 6 and 7 year olds? The coaches were concerned about winning?!?

I spent time coaching and umping little league -- in our league we never kept score in T-Ball - every game turned out to be a tie.

ANY kid who wanted to play could play, and every kid got equal field time and rotated through positions. Catcher and pitcher in Minors were the only skill-limited positions for obvious reasons (there is no pitcher and catcher in T-Ball). No kid was allowed to be "cut" unless there were severe discipline problems, and that had to go through the league.

We had league executives at each game, too, who could (and did) eject parents and spectators from the park for being obnoxious or insulting.

i was cut for the next year team which was baseball. none of the coaches actually cared about me learning the fundamentals. they didn't even teach me to hold a bat correctly (i learned later on) because they just cared about winning. All i usually heard was "why don't you play like so and so?". your league actually sounds fun, which it should be at 6-7 years old.

i never got play in field, and whenever i got to play it was way outfield. then i would get yelled out for not being able to throw the ball far enough to the in field. i usually only got to bat like once a game. although, i am not saying i didn't suck really bad. i probably had no business playing t-ball. although, it would have been nice if someone showed me the properly way to throw the ball and hold a bat.

[cooknwitha]

I'm all for a competitive instinct. My motto is "Second place isn't good enough" but I'm not a sport person, so I'm competitive in other fields.

HOWEVER, I think to implant the "Second is the first loser" mentality in 8 year old kids is shocking. At that age you should be playing for fun.

Not until you're old enough to choose how you want to compete should winning really come into it. And that mentality should some from the player themselves not parents or coaches. But playing dirty is so so wrong. Just shows who the real losers are!

[Mechcozmo]

What circumstances can you think of that would mitigate that? Even thinking of that idea is pretty sick, but to carry it out is truly appalling.

Well, the kid could have been the one who attacked the teammate-- and was then rewarded. Slightly different, but now the water is a bit more murky.

I just wonder if the kid doing the attacking was 100% innocent. What if it was the kid's idea?

Now I realize these are less-than-likely, but we all thought this story was too. Let me put it this way: I don't trust the news. No matter what I try not to.

I'm a little skeptical myself, I think there is more to this story than we've heard. I'm not saying I think he is innocent, but I think there is more to the story.
Pretty much... there is always more to this.



The news in San Diego here was trashing the SDPD. They "murdered" a 19 month old girl who was being used as a human shield by her dad, who was on drugs and drunk. He was firing at the police. The police took 3 hours before firing a single shot which took him down, and sadly, the girl too. He wounded an officer, and was posed to do quite a bit more damage than that.

Of course, the news just says, "A 19 month old girl is dead tonight after being shot by the police during intensive crossfire. Her father used her as a human shield, until a SWAT team fired this shot (video clip) which murdered her and killed the father."

More details at 11 folks. Just saying that, yes this is horrible, but no, we don't know the whole of it.

[Counterfit]

Of course, the news just says, "A 19 month old girl is dead tonight after being shot by the police during intensive crossfire. Her father used her as a human shield, until a SWAT team fired this shot (video clip) which murdered her and killed the father."
Interesting that they call it "murder", as that would have to be proven in court. Of course, it would be manslaughter(?) at most.

[MacDawg]

Let me put it this way: I don't trust the news.

My point exactly, the news became a business a long time ago, and they are in the business of "selling the news" to us as consumers. They are highly competitive in getting the story out first, being more sensational about the headline, etc. And I hate the teasers they give to hook you to watch later. If its news, just tell me the facts.

I think the news has a vested interest in making things a "story". I have no use for Dateline, 20/20, etc. Most of the "news" they bring us isn't really "news" at all.

Anyway, regarding stories like this, there is always something else. We don't know, and we will probably never hear any more about it, but we will remember the headline.

What if the child's parent was just upset at the coach, had a chip on her shoulder, was a real b*tch to begin with, and had it in for the coach, made accusations and innuendos? What if she wanted to sleep with the coach and he rebuffed her and she wanted to get even? I'm not saying any of that is true, but just what if? He is probably not clean, he may have made unguarded statements that the child shouldn't be on the team, etc. and of course that will be brought up. Maybe the kid injured him on his own, got caught and then accused the coach? What if he thought this would get him in good with the coach, but then saw what a mess it was and accused the coach?

I don't know. I'm just saying that I don't believe we know enough to hang the coach on this. He is probably a jerk, but maybe nothing more. But we will never know, and all anyone will remember is the headline.

I think the media has a huge responsibility in how they play with people's lives.

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[Lacero]

You know, the more I think about this, the funnier it's becoming. This would make a hilarious scene in Ben Stiller's Dodgeball 2.

[mvc]

You know, the more I think about this, the funnier it's becoming. This would make a hilarious scene in Ben Stiller's Dodgeball 2.

Ah Lacero, always you brighten my day by contrast when I explore the profound depths of your cynicism. Meditating on your predictably dark worldview is like applying a stiff acid-dipped wirebrush to my soul. Painful, yes, but so cleansing!!

It's an art form, isn't it. :)

[takao]

anyone what to share what "t-ball" actually is ? i got that it is similiar to baseball but not what the differences are .. and i found not keeping score somehow funny ...

[grapes911]

anyone what to share what "t-ball" actually is ? i got that it is similiar to baseball but not what the differences are .. and i found not keeping score somehow funny ...

T-Ball is just like baseball, but there is no pitching. Batters hit the ball off a "T" (see below). Usually T-ball leagues are only open to 6-8 year olds. Since the kids are so little, many leagues don't keep score and sometimes everyone bats every inning. At this age its more about learning to hit, field, run, and just generally play the game (and of course have fun).

[iSaint]

anyone what to share what "t-ball" actually is ? i got that it is similiar to baseball but not what the differences are .. and i found not keeping score somehow funny ...

It's for little kids, like 5, 6, 7 years old. The ball is placed on a standing tee at home play and gets to swing away! Usually, there's about 15 or so kids on the field, an inning consists of the whole line-up batting once. The kids don't have to throw to base to get an out, to stop play (keep kids from running the bases) they have to get the ball to the infield and hold it up. It's a lot of fun if you let it be. My son enjoyed it to an extent. He had fun and listened to the coach's instructions well. For kids that age you want to make it fun and not competitive so you don't really keep score, though some of the kids know what's going on.

EDIT: grapes good job with the pic and explanation

[grapes911]

The kids don't have to throw to base to get an out, to stop play (keep kids from running the bases) they have to get the ball to the infield and hold it up.
I forgot all about that!! WOW!! When I played T-ball, I though that was the stupidest rule ever. I guess some children needed it or base-runners could go forever. Good times, good times.

[Jopling]

That is just plain sickening. Regardless of him wanting to win or not, what happened to children's sports being for the children!?

Crazy, I sure hope he gets something awful, he deserves it (the coach). I hope the kid gets lectured too so he doesn't think things like that are alright.


But it was $25!

[Sun Baked]

But it was $25!Almost enough for a candybar and a decent burger. :(

That's criminal, the coach should have been beaten up for offering the kiddies so little money.

[CanadaRAM]

i was cut for the next year team which was baseball. none of the coaches actually cared about me learning the fundamentals. they didn't even teach me to hold a bat correctly (i learned later on) because they just cared about winning. All i usually heard was "why don't you play like so and so?". your league actually sounds fun, which it should be at 6-7 years old.

i never got play in field, and whenever i got to play it was way outfield. then i would get yelled out for not being able to throw the ball far enough to the in field. i usually only got to bat like once a game. although, i am not saying i didn't suck really bad. i probably had no business playing t-ball. although, it would have been nice if someone showed me the properly way to throw the ball and hold a bat.
That sucks. I had a lousy one year in Little League myself, but 25 years later I had a blast joining a recreational slow-pitch league. I could run and hit and make "big" plays to my heart's content and it was never serious. I recommend it.

[MacNut]

Maybe the kid struck out, :p sorry. I really don't see how someone can fail at T ball to a point where the coach wants the kid beaten.

[takao]

thx. it kinda explains it.. looks like our "baseball rules" were kinda similiar (that with the holding it up etc.) because nobody over here had any idea of baseball rules anyway .. we even played it tennis balls because they were cheaper and easier to get than baseballs and with tennis rackets instead of baseball bats at our school because hardly anybody was able to hit those balls even at the age 15 ;)
at least it wasn't as furiously hated like basketball, volleyball or track running

[iBlue]

that is horrible. I don't understand how people can sink so low, I really don't.

that coach is a twisted but it's probably a direct result of our absurdly 'polically correct' society; we did this to ourselves. all this ridiculous politically correct "everybody's a winner" and obsession with "fairness" has gone too far.
a team should have the right to pick their players and not feel forced to pick the child with a handicap (if it would affect playing ability). if we (generally speaking) were not so obsessed with trying to spare everyone's feelings and non-discrimination tactics, perhaps we could just pick our players/employees/etc etc based on merit instead of fear of discrimination.
I see the benefits of anti-discrimination "rules", but I also see the drawbacks, and cases like this one remind me of that.

what ever happened to performance getting you someplace in life???

leaving the more qualified people behind to satisfy the neuroses of modern day political correctness and overprotecting kids from everything is a pretty poor way to teach them reality. everyone needs to feel a little rejection sometime in life, it builds character, and it is an inevitable fact of life; it [B]will happen, and in worse circumstances than not being chosen for a sports event. :rolleyes:

but... don't want to offend anyone now ;)

[steps off soapbox]

[iBlue]

... for the record, I do NOT excuse what he did, that is wrong on so many levels, I just think it points to a bigger issue.

Kids should be playing to have fun and not have such a weirdly competative coach either though.

I digress. :confused:

[efoto]

Almost enough for a candybar and a decent burger. :(

That's criminal, the coach should have been beaten up for offering the kiddies so little money.

Ha, regardless of the criminal action, the sum offered is just insulting. The kid should have grabbed a bat and hit the coach, demanded more money, and then gone about his horrible act.

Of course at that age, I guess they aren't thinking about getting any value for their actions. Does anyone know if anything happened to the kid who hit the other one?

[Mechcozmo]

Interesting that they call it "murder", as that would have to be proven in court. Of course, it would be manslaughter(?) at most.

But their making money, they don't care. Each newspaper that is bought, each bit of commercial time sold, they make money. They live on controversy.

It was interesting, being on a trip through Europe when London was bombed. Very different reactions between the U.S. and U.K. Both condemned it, but the people I talked to in the U.S. didn't know that London was essentially crippled without public transit. Same story, different spins.

[JonMaker]

I really hope that it was not as bad as it was described in the article. If I hadn't lost my last shred of faith in humankind when I reached the age of reason, I'd be losing it now. :mad:

[Dros]

iBlue, there are plenty of ways to play competitively, even at a young age. Traveling teams, select teams, etc. If the coach didn't want to play by the rules of this league, then he shouldn't have joined. I'm glad there are places for people to play for fun as well as places to play to be a winner.