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MacRumors
Jun 6, 2012, 03:25 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/06/google-announces-new-3d-features-for-google-earth-is-committed-to-offering-google-maps-on-all-platforms/)


In a last minute (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/01/google-to-show-off-next-dimension-of-maps-on-june-6/) press conference, Google today shared "the next dimension" of Google Maps. The presentation, which some felt was underwhelming (http://massivegreatness.com/google-maps-team-*****-their-pants-in-public-ahead-of-wwdc) from a product perspective, included a lot of history around the Google Earth, Maps and Street View products, as well as a peek at what's to come.

The announcements are particularly significant with credible rumors that Apple will be dropping Google Maps as the native maps application in iOS, in favor of its own solution (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/04/apple-replacing-google-maps-on-ios-with-its-own-solution-later-this-year/) at WWDC next week.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/NewImage7.png

Image courtesy The Verge
The first big announcement was related to the display of 3D buildings in Google Earth. Google is using airplanes along with a Google-designed system to photograph cities and make a 3D map of buildings. It appears to be a very similar process to the one used by C3 Technologies (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/11/01/video-walkthrough-of-c3-technologies-3d-mapping-process/), a company that Apple purchased (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/29/apple-did-acquire-3d-mapping-company-c3-technologies/) last year. The Verge offers more details on how it works (http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/6/3068231/google-maps):
To make the images, Google uses planes to take images at 45-degrees from four different angles -- flying them in a tightly-controlled pattern with plenty of overlap. Google builds the 3D model off of these many images, using algorithms to create the shape and color of buildings. The process is "fully automated," building the 3D images without any human interactions. The system is intelligent enough to know when a certain image is blocked or shadowed, for example. The company hopes to combine the 2D mapping and vector data with the 3D images to perhaps someday provide vertical location information.N6Douyfa7l8
Aside from the Google Earth developments -- which will be coming to the iOS version of Google Earth in the coming weeks -- Google also unveiled new technologies for Street View and offline viewing (http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/6/3068113/google-maps-offline-for-android-coming-soon) for Google Maps on Android.

Google executives also took questions from the audience. Brian McClendon, VP of Engineering for Google Maps, said Google was "really proud of Google Maps (http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/6/3068266/google-maps-ios-commited)" and that the company was "committed to offering those services on all platforms". Based on these statements, it seems likely Google will offer a standalone iOS app for Google Maps even if Apple chooses to implement its own mapping solution in the native iOS Maps app, much like it does for the existing Google Earth app (http://appshopper.com/travel/google-earth).

Article Link: Google Announces New 3D Features for Google Earth, Is "Committed to Offering" Google Maps on 'All Platforms' (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/06/google-announces-new-3d-features-for-google-earth-is-committed-to-offering-google-maps-on-all-platforms/)



jebus01
Jun 6, 2012, 03:27 PM
If Apple stand by their values, which I hope they will, they choose google IF google is actually a better map product. "We just want to make a product as good as possible", I remember Jobs used to say. Hope they do so.

FFArchitect
Jun 6, 2012, 03:28 PM
Please get this into flight sims.

Kauai
Jun 6, 2012, 03:29 PM
You know, it isn't a crime to admit that a company other than Apple does something well.

And Google does very well with Maps. I just can't see Apple committing to the same amount of real world work they do in order to make sure Google Maps is the best.

Kyrra
Jun 6, 2012, 03:29 PM
If Apple stand by their values, which I hope they will, they choose google IF google is actually a better map product. "We just want to make a product as good as possible", I remember Jobs used to say. Hope they do so.

The question is, who is responsible for developing Google Maps for the iPhone currently? It's been lagging behind the feature offerings of Android for quite some time. Is that Google's fault or Apple's fault?

Honestly, if Google can take over full development of Google Maps for the iPhone and update it as regularly as they do for Android, I'm all for Apple ditching Gmaps and implementing their own (thereby letting Google do Google Maps themselves).

Nicky G
Jun 6, 2012, 03:30 PM
It's a great time for those of us who love maps!!! Between this and what Apple likely has brewing, the next year or two is in for a giant leap in personal, mobile 3D map technology.

When you look at this stuff, you just get that feeling of, "We DO live in The Future!" :D

drewisanapple
Jun 6, 2012, 03:30 PM
Still looking forward to Apple Maps, if anything, just to see what they've been able to do with the short time and the three companies.

harley3k
Jun 6, 2012, 03:30 PM
That video looks really good.

olowott
Jun 6, 2012, 03:30 PM
Last minute card played by Google:(.........Monday aint far away :)

outphase
Jun 6, 2012, 03:31 PM
The question is, who is responsible for developing Google Maps for the iPhone currently? It's been lagging behind the feature offerings of Android for quite some time. Is that Google's fault or Apple's fault?

Honestly, if Google can take over full development of Google Maps for the iPhone and update it as regularly as they do for Android, I'm all for Apple ditching them.

That would be the bright side if Google was no longer the baked-in map provider.

Axemantitan
Jun 6, 2012, 03:31 PM
All platforms? C64, Gameboy, ColecoVision?

macrumorsuser10
Jun 6, 2012, 03:31 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.

drewisanapple
Jun 6, 2012, 03:31 PM
The question is, who is responsible for developing Google Maps for the iPhone currently? It's been lagging behind the feature offerings of Android for quite some time. Is that Google's fault or Apple's fault?

Honestly, if Google can take over full development of Google Maps for the iPhone and update it as regularly as they do for Android, I'm all for Apple ditching Gmaps and implementing their own (thereby letting Google do Google Maps themselves).

Apple developed all the stock apps on iPhone. But the reason we don't have all the app dated features is due to liscensing disputes.

rnizlek
Jun 6, 2012, 03:32 PM
Glad to hear they'll be developing something for iOS. I have to keep my access to Google Transit, after all.

MacFather
Jun 6, 2012, 03:32 PM
http://bettermess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Apple-in-2012-Theres-a-lot-to-look-forward-to-673x379.png


http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/screen-shot-2012-06-06-at-1-23-20-pm.png

globalhemp
Jun 6, 2012, 03:33 PM
Looks like we'll all have access to a virtual flight simulator with 3D maps.

lilo777
Jun 6, 2012, 03:33 PM
All platforms? C64, Gameboy, ColecoVision?

Add iOS to this category.

drewisanapple
Jun 6, 2012, 03:33 PM
Image (http://bettermess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Apple-in-2012-Theres-a-lot-to-look-forward-to-673x379.png)


Image (http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/screen-shot-2012-06-06-at-1-23-20-pm.png)

Apples looks better, more clean.
Googles has detail though.

Maps was greatly implied.

Funkymonk
Jun 6, 2012, 03:35 PM
Would apple even allow google to have their maps app in the app store if they themselves want to get into the map business??

I hope they do, especially if it turns out Google Maps is superior. And considering the time, money, and energy Google has put into maps all these years I think it will be.

pgiguere1
Jun 6, 2012, 03:35 PM
I'm sure Apple's solution will be more impressive in terms of "new features".

However, what I feel they won't match (at least at first) is Google's map search engine and overall reliability.

Google Maps is simply very effective at what it does, and it took Google years and years to perfect it, while Apple's solution will not have been tested by a large number of users when it will launch, and will likely have glitches or downtimes which is obviously what you don't want it that kind of app. For maps and navigation, reliability is more important than any kind of 3D gimmick IMO.

Piggie
Jun 6, 2012, 03:36 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.

Meanwhile, back on planet earth. :D

How lucky we ALL are to have a company such as Google mapping the entire earth for us.
Only a few years ago, no, Google maps, No Google Earth.
We forget just how much work, time and effort has been done, and, in effect given to the worlds population to all use for free.
There is a lot of hate (esp here) for Google, but really, we should be so grateful, no other company would have gone out and done this for the mass public and just let us all use it like this.

Dangerous Theory
Jun 6, 2012, 03:36 PM
If Apple stand by their values, which I hope they will, they choose google IF google is actually a better map product. "We just want to make a product as good as possible", I remember Jobs used to say. Hope they do so.

I agree. I just want the best mapping solution, not an Apple-branded product just because it's Apple branded.

rahul247rocks
Jun 6, 2012, 03:36 PM
Google knows pretty well that if Apple is entering the Maps Industry then they better buckle up cause Apple is best at what they do. It's not that they can enjoy on the laurels of their Maps Domination on the internet platform.
Google Earth 3D looks impressive but I liked the leaked pictures of the new Apple 3D Maps way better.

drewisanapple
Jun 6, 2012, 03:36 PM
Would apple even allow google to have their maps app in the app store if they themselves want to get into the map business??

I hope they do, especially if it turns out Google Maps is superior. And considering the time, money, and energy Google has put into maps all these years I think it will be.

Yes.

Hastings101
Jun 6, 2012, 03:37 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.

Siri, one of the least reliable and least useful Apple products of the decade, is going to single handedly defeat one of the world's most reliable and well-known search engines? Lol :D

fabian9
Jun 6, 2012, 03:37 PM
I still have a hard time understanding the business case for this.

It must cost a fortune to effectively map the world from airborne platform in 3D, just so people can access it on google maps and google can sell a few ads? There must be another income stream in this somewhere that google isn't telling us about.

tdmac
Jun 6, 2012, 03:38 PM
You know, it isn't a crime to admit that a company other than Apple does something well.

And Google does very well with Maps. I just can't see Apple committing to the same amount of real world work they do in order to make sure Google Maps is the best.

True. But same can be said about Google in the case of Maps.

Apple knows this and is why they acquired companies with unique technology in this field. One of which is noted in the article and is an approach Google was following with their 3D map creation. Could be that C3 had a huge head start and Google has been playing catchup since the acquisition. Who knows. Hopefully we will find out soon.

SockRolid
Jun 6, 2012, 03:40 PM
Good luck getting Google Maps approved for the iOS App Store.

Apple can and will change the rules.

Dangerous Theory
Jun 6, 2012, 03:40 PM
Siri, one of the least reliable and least useful Apple products of the decade, is going to single handedly defeat one of the world's most reliable and well-known search engines? Lol :D

Lol, Google's not going anywhere. Just like Apple isn't gonna suddenly enter the aviation business and put Boeing out. Apple isn't the world-dominating company some people think they are :rolleyes:

charlieegan3
Jun 6, 2012, 03:42 PM
Last minute card played by Google:(.........Monday aint far away :)

yeah i heard this was in development for about... 1-2 minutes, (NOT):(

how on earth can you call this last minute?

----------

Good luck getting Google Maps approved for the iOS App Store.

Apple can and will change the rules.

not if they really do want the best user experience, only time will tell.

kockgunner
Jun 6, 2012, 03:42 PM
Technology is improving so much. I always dreamed as a kid a miniature world I can look around in. Now it's coming true. I'm curious as to how much technology will leave to the imagination for future generations.

8ate8
Jun 6, 2012, 03:42 PM
Does anyone really care about 3D buildings? I really don't see the need/point of it. Not for a standard maps program. I could care less what the building looks like. I can see other uses for this technology, though (flight sims, as others have pointed out).

NAG
Jun 6, 2012, 03:44 PM
Good luck getting Google Maps approved for the iOS App Store.

Apple can and will change the rules.

By that logic all map and gps apps will be removed from the store. Lets stop with this line of FUD. Yes, Apple can be capricious with app store rules but they rarely turn around and outright ban an entire category of apps (only ones that come to mind are the ones that were trying to replace the springboard).

Icculus
Jun 6, 2012, 03:46 PM
Does anyone really care about 3D buildings? I really don't see the need/point of it. Not for a standard maps program. I could care less what the building looks like. I can see other uses for this technology, though (flight sims, as others have pointed out).

I agree with you. Games/VR Reality stuff could easily use this in a very very cool way but aside from the first few times using it just to see it, I don't see it being very practical in the real world. I dunno I could be totally wrong, I really want to see this in action.

Does Google Earth come out in a few weeks and then when does the Maps out come, towards the end of the year? The live blog I was watching didn't relay this info clearly, IMO.

pgiguere1
Jun 6, 2012, 03:46 PM
I still have a hard time understanding the business case for this.

It must cost a fortune to effectively map the world from airborne platform in 3D, just so people can access it on google maps and google can sell a few ads? There must be another income stream in this somewhere that google isn't telling us about.

They know what business/product you're looking for at what time and at what location.

Based on your location and directions request, they can figure out where you live, where you work, where you study, where you go on vacation.

They can then even make statistics about the time you wake up and leave home, the time you get back from work, the time you eat, etc.

It's a gold mine of information that's valuable to a lot of different companies.

If you install Google Latitude, you will be able to see some of those statistics (http://markparris.co.uk/2010/06/29/google-latitude-statistics-home-work-and-other/).

NorEaster
Jun 6, 2012, 03:46 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.

_________________
Owning an Android phone makes a statement, and that statement is: "Yeah, this is where I am in life. It's not where I want to be, but I'm doing my best."


I think google STILL IS important in maps. What do you use when you're looking up an address on your desktop or laptop? Bing? Mapquest? or Google Maps? I venture to guess it's Google Maps.

Your signature speaks volumes of your maturity by the way.

charlieegan3
Jun 6, 2012, 03:46 PM
Does anyone really care about 3D buildings? I really don't see the need/point of it. Not for a standard maps program. I could care less what the building looks like. I can see other uses for this technology, though (flight sims, as others have pointed out).

it makes the map feature of google glass more impressive.

Kyrra
Jun 6, 2012, 03:47 PM
Image (http://bettermess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Apple-in-2012-Theres-a-lot-to-look-forward-to-673x379.png)


Image (http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/screen-shot-2012-06-06-at-1-23-20-pm.png)

That's for Google Earth, not Google Maps. Google Earth is already a stand-alone app on the iPhone.

realeric
Jun 6, 2012, 03:48 PM
Google abandoned iOS's maps for 4 years. They start improving it because Apple decided to develop their own maps. Don't be evil, Google! :mad:

tdmac
Jun 6, 2012, 03:49 PM
I still have a hard time understanding the business case for this.

It must cost a fortune to effectively map the world from airborne platform in 3D, just so people can access it on google maps and google can sell a few ads? There must be another income stream in this somewhere that google isn't telling us about.

I think the business case is pretty much what you stated. Ads and search. Google really has no choice at this point but to spend the $$$. Being the market leader by a long shot, Google also has been sitting on its laurels. Last big thing was streetview. They had no real competition and no reason to expand or innovate further. That is until Apple acquired companies with cool technology and innovative map ideas, which forced Google to open their wallet to expand their offerings. Google has allot to loose. Their revenue stream is basically all Ad revenue. Android use is a given but a loss of iOS maps and revenue is another. Apple isn't spending the $$ just to bring better maps iOS either, it has to be about AD revenue or another $$ motive to justify the expense. Or its plainly just to hurt Google profit wise.

Sensation
Jun 6, 2012, 03:50 PM
Looks great, Google keep reminding me why I chose Android for my smartphone platform of choice :D

charlieegan3
Jun 6, 2012, 03:51 PM
Google abandoned iOS's maps for 4 years. They start improving it because Apple decided to develop their own maps. Don't be evil, Google! :mad:

Don't be mad! and don't worry! because what you think happened didn't happen at all!

pgiguere1
Jun 6, 2012, 03:51 PM
Image (http://bettermess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Apple-in-2012-Theres-a-lot-to-look-forward-to-673x379.png)


Image (http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/screen-shot-2012-06-06-at-1-23-20-pm.png)

http://blog.gregmarchal.com/wp-content/uploads/google-earth-meteo.jpg

charlieegan3
Jun 6, 2012, 03:52 PM
Looks great, Google keep reminding me why I chose Android for my smartphone platform of choice :D

Don't forget this is coming to iOS too...

jontech
Jun 6, 2012, 03:52 PM
This is one of their killer apps (Maps, Search, Gmail)


Apple could possible hit them right in the mouth with their own mapping solution. If they bring something better and more integration, this could be a big problem for Google revenue


If not, then Google will continue to dominate with the superior product

Consultant
Jun 6, 2012, 03:53 PM
Does anyone really care about 3D buildings? I really don't see the need/point of it. Not for a standard maps program. I could care less what the building looks like. I can see other uses for this technology, though (flight sims, as others have pointed out).

Does anyone really care about

GUI / mouse
Wifi
lack of floppy drive
iPod
iPhone
lack of optical drive
thin and light MacBook air
iPad

SockRolid
Jun 6, 2012, 03:53 PM
I still have a hard time understanding the business case for this.

It must cost a fortune to effectively map the world from airborne platform in 3D, just so people can access it on google maps and google can sell a few ads? There must be another income stream in this somewhere that google isn't telling us about.

96% of Google's revenue comes from ads. Do the math.

hexx
Jun 6, 2012, 03:54 PM
i smell something :D feel free to downvote but from what i've read every single journalist who attended this conference said that they could feel lack of confidence, something's up

SockRolid
Jun 6, 2012, 03:55 PM
[...]
not if they really do want the best user experience, only time will tell.


Is that a "beta comment" for an as-yet-unreleased Google product?

Or is it just a FUD-about-vaporware comment?

vampyr
Jun 6, 2012, 03:56 PM
Please get this into flight sims.

I CAN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE!!!

I don't care if the data size of a 3D map of my city area was 2TB in size... I would buy a hard drive just to hold the data.

If it meant that I could have VFR identical to real life... I'd buy it!!!!!!

jcb10
Jun 6, 2012, 03:56 PM
After that video, I really want to spend some more time in San Francisco. That presentation even made Lake Merced look nice!

Ryth
Jun 6, 2012, 03:56 PM
That stage and event center looks absolutely pitiful for a company like Google. Looks like the event was staged half-@ssed to try to upstage Apple next week.

topmounter
Jun 6, 2012, 03:56 PM
It's a zero-sum game!!! :rolleyes:

funkybudda
Jun 6, 2012, 03:57 PM
Siri, one of the least reliable and least useful Apple products of the decade, is going to single handedly defeat one of the world's most reliable and well-known search engines? Lol :D

lol, exactly.

shandyman
Jun 6, 2012, 03:57 PM
yeah i heard this was in development for about... 1-2 minutes, (NOT):(

how on earth can you call this last minute?[COLOR="#808080"]


Well everyone knew Apple bought C3, who had been developing this for a while, so Google have had since Apple bought C3 to start developing their own version, which is why they only showed a small demo, gave no actual release date. Apple will announce theirs on monday, with a release in the next few months, if it's in iOS 6 like everything points to.

If Google had announced a release date and it was in the next 3 months, then i'd have given Google the benefit of the doubt. reeks of desperation to try and spoil apple's announcement......

nefan65
Jun 6, 2012, 03:57 PM
Lol, Google's not going anywhere. Just like Apple isn't gonna suddenly enter the aviation business and put Boeing out. Apple isn't the world-dominating company some people think they are :rolleyes:

Then why are they one of the most valued companies, right behind Exxon?

uknowimright
Jun 6, 2012, 03:58 PM
Image (http://bettermess.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Apple-in-2012-Theres-a-lot-to-look-forward-to-673x379.png)


Image (http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/screen-shot-2012-06-06-at-1-23-20-pm.png)

hmmm

http://www.talkandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/galaxy-nexus-something-big.jpg?3995d3

hexx
Jun 6, 2012, 03:59 PM
hmmm

image (http://www.talkandroid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/galaxy-nexus-something-big.jpg?3995d3)

:d

Renzatic
Jun 6, 2012, 03:59 PM
Owning an Android phone makes a statement, and that statement is: "Yeah, this is where I am in life. It's not where I want to be, but I'm doing my best."

I like walking into places with my iPhone prominently displayed in hand. It attracts people to me, shows them I have taste in the tools I choose to use, and defines me as the person I want to be. That's right folks, I am defined by the things I buy, because if it weren't for Apple's sleek designs, I wouldn't have any personality otherwise.

Sorry, but I think this has to be the most obnoxious thing I've ever read anywhere on the internet. I mean it's...it's...it's a $500 PHONE! Nothing less, nothing more. Hell, you could buy one after two months worth of trips selling plasma. It is a statement for NOTHING!

SockRolid
Jun 6, 2012, 03:59 PM
By that logic all map and gps apps will be removed from the store. [...]

Not necessarily. Just the ones that don't use Apple's forthcoming mapping API.
Location services already has its own Cocoa API. Mapping services will too.

Bad news for Google. They make far more from iOS than they do from Android. No surprise, really.

mertyz
Jun 6, 2012, 04:00 PM
Is there some kind of a law stating that Stanford campus should always be shot in the same exact direction, starting from the same exact position?

smiddlehurst
Jun 6, 2012, 04:00 PM
After following the live blog through I think there's certainly an argument to be made that Google are, at the very least, worried. There seemed to be no real flow, no drive, no point to the presentation and few major featured other than a 3D map that isn't available yet and, worse, with no real date as to WHEN it may be up and running (and they also glossed over the fact that another new feature, offline maps for Android, has been available for a while as part of Google Labs).

Now please don't get me wrong, this isn't in any way a gloat at Google or an 'Apple is teh be5t!' post. But it's clear that Google are going to be looking nervously towards Moscone West next Monday and, as they're the current maps provider for iOS, it seems safe to assume Apple will indeed be unveiling their own solution. And if for no other reason than offering serious competition the tech industry should be grateful. Certainly it won't hurt to have a company with the reach in mobile that Apple does pushing Google to deliver a better product.

As for the 3D stuff, I maintain that this is going to be a huge selling point for those that struggle with 2D maps, especially when used on-foot. Of course that assumes they can get the camera view down low enough to give a reasonable approximation of what you should be seeing but the c3 videos that are available suggest they could get pretty close. More interesting will be how this stuff links to the rest of the device and how mapping is integrated into other services.

Someone mentioned the business case and that's a very good point. Google, after all, needs to make money from its mapping product, either via search or (as we've recently seen) charging third parties to access it. That policy has driven away some VERY big names recently so they're going to have to have an astonishing product to make it work. Apple, on the other hand, doesn't really care about any of that. It makes its profit on the device itself, maps is just another feature to help ship tens of millions of iOS devices so they can more easily justify a large investment.

Whatever happens I'm really looking forward to seeing what Apple has in store on Monday.

SockRolid
Jun 6, 2012, 04:02 PM
[...] It is a statement for NOTHING!

One of Google's many problems is that they have no taste. The way Microsoft doesn't.
And boy does it show.

mcfrazieriv
Jun 6, 2012, 04:02 PM
When you look at this stuff, you just get that feeling of, "We DO live in The Future!" :D

Dang you're a dork. :cool: I love it.

2bikes
Jun 6, 2012, 04:02 PM
Would apple even allow google to have their maps app in the app store if they themselves want to get into the map business??

I hope they do, especially if it turns out Google Maps is superior. And considering the time, money, and energy Google has put into maps all these years I think it will be.

There are other mail apps, browser apps, reminder apps, messaging apps, out there. Why wouldn't they allow maps apps?

I think there is nothing to be worried about Apple bringing their own maps. Healthy competition. And you can only expect improvements to their maps since this would be their entry.

ArcaneDevice
Jun 6, 2012, 04:03 PM
Google knows pretty well that if Apple is entering the Maps Industry then they better buckle up cause Apple is best at what they do.

Except when they aren't, in which case Apple marketing will be able to sell it anyway.

jclardy
Jun 6, 2012, 04:05 PM
Siri, one of the least reliable and least useful Apple products of the decade, is going to single handedly defeat one of the world's most reliable and well-known search engines? Lol :D

Not now or any time in the near future, but yes. Google search will be replaced if they don't innovate. In its current state Google requires us to pare down our input into keywords. Siri will allow us to use our actual train of thought.

Now Google could come out with some new search innovations between now and then, but Siri is the general direction that computing will be heading.

Go back to 1998 and Yahoo probably thought the same about Google.

Oletros
Jun 6, 2012, 04:07 PM
Not necessarily. Just the ones that don't use Apple's forthcoming mapping API.
Location services already has its own Cocoa API. Mapping services will too.

Bad news for Google. They make far more from iOS than they do from Android. No surprise, really.

Are you saying that Apple will ditch Tomtom, Navigon, etc?

Ah, no, you're only acting like you act always

SockRolid
Jun 6, 2012, 04:09 PM
Then why are they one of the most valued companies, right behind Exxon?

AAPL market cap passed XOM quite a while ago.

AAPL market cap right now: 534.35B
XOM market cap right now: 374.93B

Oh, and GOOG market cap right now: 189.27B
Pretty darn good for an adspam company.

----------

Are you saying that Apple will ditch Tomtom, Navigon, etc?

Ah, no, you're only acting like you act always

Yes, I'm saying it could happen.
Yes, acting like always.

But hey, it's a free country. Fandroids and Google apologists are welcome to post on MacRumors.
More traffic means higher ad revenue for MacRumors. And Fandroids and Google apologists
(of all people) should understand the importance of ad revenue.

96% of Google's revenue comes from ads.

Renzatic
Jun 6, 2012, 04:09 PM
One of Google's many problems is that they have no taste. The way Microsoft doesn't.
And boy does it show.

They don't have Steve Job's marketing knack, I'll admit. But it's hard to compete against Steve Jobs. He is, after all, the greatest product Steve Jobs has ever produced.

NAG
Jun 6, 2012, 04:13 PM
Not necessarily. Just the ones that don't use Apple's forthcoming mapping API.
Location services already has its own Cocoa API. Mapping services will too.

Bad news for Google. They make far more from iOS than they do from Android. No surprise, really.

Apple could also include a tazer in their next iOS devices that shocks you every time you make something up with no evidence.

By your logic Apple forces everyone to use CoreData instead of their own databases in apps.

Seriously, as long as Google doesn't use private Apple APIs their fine. I mean, Google Maps via Safari works. Are they going to shut that down too? Did they prevent people from using AdSense when they announced iAds?

Just stop with the FUD. Really.

Piggie
Jun 6, 2012, 04:13 PM
I like walking into places with my iPhone prominently displayed in hand. It attracts people to me, shows them I have taste in the tools I choose to use, and defines me as the person I want to be. That's right folks, I am defined by the things I buy, because if it weren't for Apple's sleek designs, I wouldn't have any personality otherwise.

Sorry, but I think this has to be the most obnoxious thing I've ever read anywhere on the internet. I mean it's...it's...it's a $500 PHONE! Nothing less, nothing more. Hell, you could buy one after two months worth of trips selling plasma. It is a statement for NOTHING!

Brilliant :D

Oletros
Jun 6, 2012, 04:14 PM
But hey, it's a free country. Fandroids and Google apologists are welcome to post on MacRumors.

You mean, fandroids like you, no?

Because it is impossible that a normal person can act like you act, only someone that wants to insult Apple and people that like Apple products can say the silly things you say

tdmac
Jun 6, 2012, 04:14 PM
There are other mail apps, browser apps, reminder apps, messaging apps, out there. Why wouldn't they allow maps apps?

I think there is nothing to be worried about Apple bringing their own maps. Healthy competition. And you can only expect improvements to their maps since this would be their entry.

I don't think they wouldn't allow maps. But... There is a big difference to being a separate app on the device vs. being the go to default/integrated app that is used by various applications on the device.

hexor
Jun 6, 2012, 04:14 PM
Sorry but I'd have to agree with others here that this really looked like a panic press release given the timing near WWDC and it not being available anytime soon.

tido2012
Jun 6, 2012, 04:15 PM
Crap, that looks amazing! Hopefully the Apple can release something that nice with this new update coming out.

efktd
Jun 6, 2012, 04:16 PM
i'm sure MapQuest is feeling a bit lonely nowadays.

skellener
Jun 6, 2012, 04:20 PM
Looks amazing. Now how the hell is that of any use when AT&T can't even pull down the flat graphic map on 3G?

The network is the weakest link with all of these advances in mobile computing. Until that improves, none of this stuff matters.

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 6, 2012, 04:21 PM
If it looks good and the controls are intuitive, that's great.

If not, well, it's just a gimmick, then. Doesn't Bing Maps already have angled views? Personally, I hate them... they're really disorienting.


Looks amazing. Now how the hell is that of any use when AT&T can't even pull down the flat graphic map on 3G?

The network is the weakest link with all of these advances in mobile computing. Until that improves, none of this stuff matters.

I don't think this will require much more graphic data. Properly optimized, I don't think it would require any more data other than a few points defining the shape of the buildings.

Edit: UNLESS... what about rounded buildings? How many vertices does Google's auto generation thing need to make a shape with rounded edges? Or is it somehow smart enough to recognize rounded surfaces and store them in a way other than just a bunch of points that approximate it?

mdriftmeyer
Jun 6, 2012, 04:21 PM
Google Maps and general Linux is garbage, so anyone who thinks all platforms are committed believe everything they read.

Heck, Google Maps outside of a mobile device is something of an after thought in most individual lives. One's far more obsessed with direction when someone is trying to get somewhere.

Either way, once Apple integrates their Map system into iOS and OS X (even laptops could use it) Google Maps useage will drop heavily.

Simgar988
Jun 6, 2012, 04:21 PM
It's a great time for those of us who love maps!!! Between this and what Apple likely has brewing, the next year or two is in for a giant leap in personal, mobile 3D map technology.

When you look at this stuff, you just get that feeling of, "We DO live in The Future!" :D

I actually viewed it as we are living in the past, and someday, people will look at this mapping technology and be glad they can study about us, but will also say, "Wow, what a ****** map."

saud0488
Jun 6, 2012, 04:22 PM
Sorry but I'd have to agree with others here that this really looked like a panic press release given the timing near WWDC and it not being available anytime soon.

Cause the iPhone 4 being misplaced and reported the day of the evo 4g announcement wasn't the same thing....

mdriftmeyer
Jun 6, 2012, 04:24 PM
Are you saying that Apple will ditch Tomtom, Navigon, etc?

Ah, no, you're only acting like you act always

None of these options will be pampered. They'll have to develop solutions that enhance iOS Maps and I'm sure they can dream up of new levels of vertical selling or they will get out of the business of providing such services.

SockRolid
Jun 6, 2012, 04:25 PM
Sorry but I'd have to agree with others here that this really looked like a panic press release given the timing near WWDC and it not being available anytime soon.

Agree. It's like somebody who just fell out of a tree saying "No, I'm good. I'm perfectly OK" as they limp away.

Or maybe they're trying to establish "prior art" so they can try suing Apple for copying 3D mapping or something dumb like that. They're down to just one patent out of all those thousands of obsolete patents they inherited from the Motorola Mobility acquisition.

They'll need more ammo. Soon. Beta ammo even. Just for the courtroom PR value if nothing else.

Robin4
Jun 6, 2012, 04:26 PM
Monopoly is never good.

Open to innovation here. May the best nerd win.:cool:

uknowimright
Jun 6, 2012, 04:26 PM
NEWSFLASH: all business do things to try to trump their competitors

Google makes this presentation
Apple leaks parts the day of the SGIII comes out
Nintendo announces Wii U controller thingy in a pre-E3 conference before MS shows off SmartGlass

old-school
Jun 6, 2012, 04:28 PM
Think this is good news for all involved. Google may have tried to be seen as the first ones to start this project (maybe they were?), but regardless - the technology/experience is being improved which is great. The fact that Google are making their own iOS app offers a better choice for the platform if Apple are ditching Google's maps - and hopefully better than the native Google-powered app anyway since Apple hasn't thrown much development weight behind it so far. (Although, what Apple's got up its sleeve is yet to be seen.)

champ01
Jun 6, 2012, 04:30 PM
Less of Google, less of Facebook, less of Adobe

More of Apple, more of Apple, more of Apple.

Yep that sounds about right to me. :)

doelcm82
Jun 6, 2012, 04:31 PM
Does anyone really care about 3D buildings? I really don't see the need/point of it. Not for a standard maps program. I could care less what the building looks like. I can see other uses for this technology, though (flight sims, as others have pointed out).

Yes. I care about 3D buildings. I see the need/point of it.

D.T.
Jun 6, 2012, 04:31 PM
Seems like a Win-Win for the consumer:

iOS users likely wind up with a better native Map/Nav app (assuming the limitation of the licensing deal with Google, restricted features)

iOS user wind up with a 3rd party app that’s better than the current (iOS <=5.x), and potentially better than the new iOS 6 Maps, if they exist :)

If iOS 6 gives developers a better inter-app communication protocol, a 3rd party app might be as “integrated” as a 1st party/native app too.

Oletros
Jun 6, 2012, 04:33 PM
They'll have to develop solutions that enhance iOS Maps

What, Tomtom or Navigon enhancing iOS maps, do you know what are you talinkg about?

Renzatic
Jun 6, 2012, 04:33 PM
Less of Google, less of Facebook, less of Adobe

More of Apple, more of Apple, more of Apple.

Yep that sounds about right to me. :)

So what are you saying? "I care less about the things I do on a computer, and more about the computer itself"? Wow.

surma884
Jun 6, 2012, 04:39 PM
Does anyone really care about 3D buildings? I really don't see the need/point of it. Not for a standard maps program. I could care less what the building looks like. I can see other uses for this technology, though (flight sims, as others have pointed out).

They're good for navigation. It's easier to know where to turn if your navigation device shows you buildings.

sazivad
Jun 6, 2012, 04:39 PM
I think that Google was already working on this before the rumors of Apple's mapping services began to circulate.

I also think, however, that this event was triggered by said rumors. Without the possibility of Apple creating their own maps service, Google probably would have announced this new 3D technology the day it became available.

WeegieMac
Jun 6, 2012, 04:48 PM
Siri, one of the least reliable and least useful Apple products of the decade, is going to single handedly defeat one of the world's most reliable and well-known search engines? Lol :D

Do you enjoy skimming posts?

You mock his reply as if he was talking about Siri as it is today.

He quite clearly said, and I quote:

"When Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential".

Ryth
Jun 6, 2012, 04:50 PM
NEWSFLASH: all business do things to try to trump their competitors

Google makes this presentation
Apple leaks parts the day of the SGIII comes out
Nintendo announces Wii U controller thingy in a pre-E3 conference before MS shows off SmartGlass

NEWSFLASH:

It looks half-@ssed put together. If anything, they made themselves look desperate vs anything positive/else.

Westside guy
Jun 6, 2012, 04:53 PM
Those of us who'd prefer to use Google Maps better hope Apple doesn't decide to reject this presumed standalone app for "duplication of service" - something they've pulled numerous times before.

I like Apple's products a lot - and I strongly prefer iOS to Android - but the company has behaved rather capriciously at times.

ktappe
Jun 6, 2012, 04:56 PM
* I'm very glad Apple is pushing Google to improve its maps. As a long time user of Google Earth and Google Maps, I don't "have a dog in this fight" other than to hope competition = better maps for all of us.

* Google has a history of introducing great new technologies with half-baked interfaces. Witness how Google Earth & Google Maps each continue to have features the other lacks, which is frustrating if you're attempting to complete a mapping task that needs them both.

* Apple has a history of putting a great user front-end on complex back-end technologies. So I expect to see Apple's offering to be more "neato" than Google's

* Meanwhile, Apple also has a history of being very US-centric. It will not surprise me at all to see Apple's offering be "US-only" for the next year or two, leaving Google as the main solution for the other 80% of the world's users.

sam10685
Jun 6, 2012, 04:57 PM
Google has WAY too much money.

Mortalias
Jun 6, 2012, 04:58 PM
I like to put on the objective hat and look at any product independently...

And I must say the mapping efforts by Google have been extremely impressive, and this is no exception. Hopefully Apple sees the simple fact that Google has the map industry down.

TennisandMusic
Jun 6, 2012, 05:00 PM
Google has WAY too much money.

Err....Apple makes more?

ktappe
Jun 6, 2012, 05:02 PM
what about rounded buildings? How many vertices does Google's auto generation thing need to make a shape with rounded edges?

You mean like Apple's new HQ? How ironic if their main competitor was "unable" to render it.... :D

ThunderSkunk
Jun 6, 2012, 05:07 PM
Gee good thing they rushed right out to present... that... to us. ...right now.

Talk about a mad scramble to preemptively save face.

Google has been neglecting maps. Glad to see Apple's not content to let it stagnate.

drewisanapple
Jun 6, 2012, 05:08 PM
Err....Apple makes more?

This made my day. No joke.

rmwebs
Jun 6, 2012, 05:08 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.

:confused:

Sorry, you say 'we used to be important in maps'. When exactly did they stop being important? Come to think of it, when did they stop being 'THE' map provider.

Everyone uses Google Maps, its the most accurate option. If you seriously think that Apple are going to swoop in and destroy that with a single release you're extremely delusional.

Google are VERY good at maps, they are the only ones out of the big map players who have invested in their own Satellites, aircraft and infrastructure to see the continuing improvement. You dont actually think Apple will create an entire department of hundreds of people for Maps do you?!

Edit: Dont bother replying. I've just seen your narrow-minded signature...pathetic.

linux2mac
Jun 6, 2012, 05:09 PM
Google Holds Its Breath and Tries to Sow Doubt About Apple's Maps
http://thenextweb.com/google/2012/06/06/google-holds-its-breath-and-tries-to-sow-doubt-about-apples-upcoming-maps-feature/

"My favorite answer came from Brian McClendon, VP of Engineering for Google Maps. He was asked “is this a google response to Apple developing their own mapping platform?”

Here’s his reply:

There’s a lot going on in mapping right now and we wanted to be able to tell our story and cover more than just the new features. We’re very proud of how far we’ve come in terms of comprehensiveness accuracy and usability and we also wanted to share these innovations.

Let me translate for you:

There’s a lot going on in mapping, namely that Apple is going to kick us off of iOS next week. We wanted to focus on all of the history of Google Maps, rather than the future because we have basically nothing new to announce right now. Hopefully you’ll see our accomplishments as impossible for Apple to duplicate.

Apple has yet to introduce its product. Google has nothing to compete against. So why the event today?"

rhett7660
Jun 6, 2012, 05:10 PM
yeah i heard this was in development for about... 1-2 minutes, (NOT):(

how on earth can you call this last minute?

----------



not if they really do want the best user experience, only time will tell.

I think he was referring to the press conference being last minute not the actual product.

Blakjack
Jun 6, 2012, 05:11 PM
I'm just mad that I'm more than likely going to waste app space because Ill have to have two maps apps on my device now.

Come on Apple....get it right the first time.

hchung
Jun 6, 2012, 05:12 PM
Meanwhile, back on planet earth. :D

How lucky we ALL are to have a company such as Google mapping the entire earth for us.
Only a few years ago, no, Google maps, No Google Earth.
We forget just how much work, time and effort has been done, and, in effect given to the worlds population to all use for free.
There is a lot of hate (esp here) for Google, but really, we should be so grateful, no other company would have gone out and done this for the mass public and just let us all use it like this.

I think you misspelled Navteq, Teleatlas, NASA, and a few other organizations.....

3D cityscapes were available in some models of Sony-bult indash GPS systems about a decade ago. It's been so long, articles talking about it arn't even on Google. (or just impossible to find without the old magazines.)

Google Earth, Bing Maps, etc. all were built on a boatload of technology that most people never knew existed. Trying to give props to Google (or MS, or Apple) without recognizing who actually did the work is just naive.

I'll credit Google for making it free by paying for it, but you should know they didn't do the most of the work.

rmwebs
Jun 6, 2012, 05:13 PM
Google abandoned iOS's maps for 4 years. They start improving it because Apple decided to develop their own maps. Don't be evil, Google! :mad:

Um, Apple developed the Maps app on iOS, not Google...

hchung
Jun 6, 2012, 05:14 PM
Is there some kind of a law stating that Stanford campus should always be shot in the same exact direction, starting from the same exact position?

They probably knew that any other flyby path would make Stanford campus unrecognizable. :)

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 6, 2012, 05:19 PM
You mean like Apple's new HQ? How ironic if their main competitor was "unable" to render it.... :D

That is, in fact, the exact building I had in mind when I asked the question.

champ01
Jun 6, 2012, 05:20 PM
So what are you saying? "I care less about the things I do on a computer, and more about the computer itself"? Wow.

I care about innovation, privacy, honesty. I care little for companies that I mentioned.

The fact that Tim Cook loves a company like Facebook doesn't comfort me.
What is Facebook really contributing to Apple for users who don't want 5000 friends that they never see or speak with in real life.
Do we need Google to grow even bigger then they already are? Do we trust them and other companies with all the information we are giving them without even knowing about it most of the time?
I don't trust these companies as much as I trust Apple with information. (can't proof it, but its a feeling I've created for myself over the years)

I care for Apple to stand on their own feet with amazing hardware and software. Apple has great talent on board and can be the best in most areas.
Being less depended on others creates a platform of maximum creativity.
Just my opinion. :)

SirROM
Jun 6, 2012, 05:23 PM
After reading these posts, I had a thought…

What if Apple replicates the play they did with Microsoft many years ago? They released QuickTime for Windows as a trojan horse and then iTunes. What if they created a great mapping solution and released it as a free solution on Android?

I know the dynamics are different in that Apple really is dominant and one questions if they should "validate" Google's position. However, this could be an interesting way to undermine Google in their own backyard. Apple doesn't need any revenue from that effort, but it might decrease Google's ability to profit from map revenues if Apple does a better job and people prefer it.

Probably won't happen, but I like the thought of it anyway. :D

baryon
Jun 6, 2012, 05:27 PM
I have trouble imagining that Apple can do better maps than Google… I sure hope Apple doesn't ditch Google maps just because they don't like Google, especially if their own maps aren't as good as Google's.

Dangerous Theory
Jun 6, 2012, 05:28 PM
Then why are they one of the most valued companies, right behind Exxon?

They are more valuable than Exxon, by the way. None the less, how does that make them world dominating in any remote way. Apple represent a picoscopic amount of every business that exists in the world. They just dominate smartphone and tablets.

Ryth
Jun 6, 2012, 05:29 PM
Google has WAY too much money.

If you think Google has WAY too much money, then you should visit Apple's stockpile.

Cod3rror
Jun 6, 2012, 05:31 PM
It's a great time for those of us who love maps!!! Between this and what Apple likely has brewing, the next year or two is in for a giant leap in personal, mobile 3D map technology.

When you look at this stuff, you just get that feeling of, "We DO live in The Future!" :D

Exactly!

I love that Apple is getting into maps, they got into cameras and explained at their press conference that megapixels weren't everything and lenses, sensors are what matters and everyone stopped with the megapixel race(except for Nokia), overnight and concentrated on lenses, sensors and camera features instead.

And now Apple is getting seriously into maps, look for a really fierce competition and for everyone to up their games in mapping, navigation and discovery, Apple, Google, Nokia/Microsoft.

The industry knows Apple is the leader and looks at Apple, if Apple goes in a certain direction, the others concentrate on that too.

Also, if Apple does use OpenStreetMap, imagine the amount of boost it's going to give to the project.

Radio
Jun 6, 2012, 05:32 PM
I'm sure Apple's solution will be more impressive in terms of "new features".

However, what I feel they won't match (at least at first) is Google's map search engine and overall reliability.

Google Maps is simply very effective at what it does, and it took Google years and years to perfect it, while Apple's solution will not have been tested by a large number of users when it will launch, and will likely have glitches or downtimes which is obviously what you don't want it that kind of app. For maps and navigation, reliability is more important than any kind of 3D gimmick IMO.

Well said. Apple has a long way to go to even compete with google maps.

Glad to hear theyll have a stand alone app but that sucks we'll be forced to use a sub par apple maps program.

Ryth
Jun 6, 2012, 05:33 PM
Then why are they one of the most valued companies, right behind Exxon?

Right behind Exxon? Apple is well past Exxon as the most valuable company in the world. They past Exxon back at $500 a share.

NAG
Jun 6, 2012, 05:33 PM
After reading these posts, I had a thought…

What if Apple replicates the play they did with Microsoft many years ago? They released QuickTime for Windows as a trojan horse and then iTunes. What if they created a great mapping solution and released it as a free solution on Android?

I know the dynamics are different in that Apple really is dominant and one questions if they should "validate" Google's position. However, this could be an interesting way to undermine Google in their own backyard. Apple doesn't need any revenue from that effort, but it might decrease Google's ability to profit from map revenues if Apple does a better job and people prefer it.

Probably won't happen, but I like the thought of it anyway. :D

That is a flawed analogy. QuickTime and iTunes were necessary because they defined platforms vital to Apple's success in multimedia (more so iTunes but that itself was dependent on the groundwork put forth by QuickTime).

What would Apple gain by releasing a free maps app for Android (and it has to be free or no one would use it)? I can't think of anything unless they suddenly release iAd for Android and improve iAd drastically. What would they lose? Money and time. They'd have to make it compatible with xyz Android devices which is arguably more difficult than Windows due to the OEMs messing around with Android. I doubt there would be a significant halo effect either.

pacalis
Jun 6, 2012, 05:34 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps."

Google used to be important in maps? Really?

And they use to be important in search too. :rolleyes:

Google is just stealing thunder with what they have on the shelf. It's not a panic move. It's a way to cheapen the apple announcement for very little effort.

NAG
Jun 6, 2012, 05:35 PM
Not necessarily. Just the ones that don't use Apple's forthcoming mapping API.
Location services already has its own Cocoa API. Mapping services will too.

Bad news for Google. They make far more from iOS than they do from Android. No surprise, really.

Again, this logic is fundamentally flawed and is FUD.

Apple does not ban functionality if it isn't using their API.

There is evidence for this and no evidence against it.

Seriously, name a case of Apple doing this. Stop spreading FUD.

cvaldes
Jun 6, 2012, 05:38 PM
They probably knew that any other flyby path would make Stanford campus unrecognizable. :)
hchung is right.

The Palm Drive flyover approaching the Oval, the Main Quad and the Memorial Church -- and with Hoover Tower to the left -- is really the easiest way to identify Stanford University, plus this is the oldest and most historic part of the campus.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 6, 2012, 05:41 PM
Google abandoned iOS's maps for 4 years. They start improving it because Apple decided to develop their own maps. Don't be evil, Google! :mad:

Just going to point out Google was never in charge of nor development the map app on the iPhone it sucks is Apple more or less abandon it 4 years ago.
The only thing Google provided was back end data. App it self was Apple's job and Apple failed at doing that.

iSimx
Jun 6, 2012, 05:42 PM
So long as Apple's efforts aren't like iOS iPhoto maps... then I look forward to seeing what Apple has to offer. Apart from that competition is a good thing. Lets hope they can match or do better. But with Google's years of map development I am somewhat skeptical.

Rocketman
Jun 6, 2012, 06:00 PM
So is everyone doing their product announcements in Steve Jobs format by default now?

that1guyy
Jun 6, 2012, 06:01 PM
This is nice. Google is innovating and even if Apple's in house maps turn out to be crap I can still use google's offerings, which are top notch anyway.

lilo777
Jun 6, 2012, 06:06 PM
So is everyone doing their product announcements in Steve Jobs format by default now?

What is Steve Jobs format? Turtle neck and a remote control? Most other people do it in suits but still with a remote.

daneoni
Jun 6, 2012, 06:12 PM
Oh now they're willing to write a proper standalone GMaps app for a 3rd party platform :rolleyes:

KnightWRX
Jun 6, 2012, 06:18 PM
Again, this logic is fundamentally flawed and is FUD.

Apple does not ban functionality if it isn't using their API.

There is evidence for this and no evidence against it.

Seriously, name a case of Apple doing this. Stop spreading FUD.

Apple banned all the games implementing the OpenFeint APIs when they released Game Center... oh wait. err... Well they sure banned the apps using the AdSense framework when they introduced iAd... did they ? *sweating*... I think I got it, all apps can only use the Twitter integration, no more Facebook sharing using... Facebook's... API... or something.

I give up.

----------

Oh now they're willing to write a proper standalone app for iOS :rolleyes:

Yeah, about damn time too. Now do one for Google Services, Gmail and Google Earth you bunch of lazy developers at Google...

err..

What do you mean all of those are already there ? :eek:

rman726
Jun 6, 2012, 06:20 PM
Does anyone really care about

GUI / mouse
Wifi
lack of floppy drive
iPod
iPhone
lack of optical drive
thin and light MacBook air
iPad

Yes I do. That still doesn't make me care anymore about 3D maps. Whether it be by Google or Apple, I still don't really get it. I'm far more excited about Apple offering a turn-by-turn navigation than I am about them incorporating 3D maps.

Hell, I would honestly say that a very large number of of Google maps actual street numbers are wrong. They bring me to the right general area of the street, but they are terrible at the actual street numbers. And that's not a knock on Google Maps, as I don't expect Apple to be any better. Just saying that seeing a 3D representation of my destination isn't going to help me find the right place... It's either going to be very obvious like a business with big sign like WALMART out front, where I can see it when I get there anyways, or not reliable enough to count on. For example, if I'm looking for a house I'm visiting, I'll still have to look at the actual numbers on the mailboxes/front of the house anyways because Google Maps simply is not very reliable for what side of the street a house is on, let alone the right number.

pensoftware
Jun 6, 2012, 06:22 PM
"Hey Google maps, how do I get from my office building on the 6th floor to the Oval Office?"

Renzatic
Jun 6, 2012, 06:24 PM
"Get elected president"

THANKS GOOGLE MAPS!

lincolntran
Jun 6, 2012, 06:29 PM
Meanwhile, back on planet earth. :D

How lucky we ALL are to have a company such as Google mapping the entire earth for us.
Only a few years ago, no, Google maps, No Google Earth.
We forget just how much work, time and effort has been done, and, in effect given to the worlds population to all use for free.
There is a lot of hate (esp here) for Google, but really, we should be so grateful, no other company would have gone out and done this for the mass public and just let us all use it like this.

It's not free my friend. There's no such thing as free, especially from Google. You just Pay for it in other forms. You pay for it by letting go of your privacy, whether you care about your privacy or not is another story.

b166er
Jun 6, 2012, 06:30 PM
I'm not trying to hate here, I use gmail and some other google services, but am I the only one that just doesn't care about 3D maps? They look awesome, I'm sure Google put a lot of work in to it, but how does this change anything?

I'd worry more about how accurate and efficient the route is first, and google is just as bad off there as every other company that offers navigation. These maps look great, I just don't see how they are going to enhance my experiences with navigating a road trip or what have you.

lowbatteries
Jun 6, 2012, 06:32 PM
The question is, who is responsible for developing Google Maps for the iPhone currently? It's been lagging behind the feature offerings of Android for quite some time. Is that Google's fault or Apple's fault?

Honestly, if Google can take over full development of Google Maps for the iPhone and update it as regularly as they do for Android, I'm all for Apple ditching Gmaps and implementing their own (thereby letting Google do Google Maps themselves).

There currently is no Google Maps for the iPhone. There is a simple "Maps" app that happens to use some licensed Google data, but Google is not involved in its development.

rman726
Jun 6, 2012, 06:32 PM
I'm not trying to hate here, I use gmail and some other google services, but am I the only one that just doesn't care about 3D maps? They look awesome, I'm sure Google put a lot of work in to it, but how does this change anything?

I'd worry more about how accurate and efficient the route is first, and google is just as bad off there as every other company that offers navigation. These maps look great, I just don't see how they are going to enhance my experiences with navigating a road trip or what have you.

Completely agree. They look cool, but I really don't care about them...

tigress666
Jun 6, 2012, 06:32 PM
Just going to point out Google was never in charge of nor development the map app on the iPhone it sucks is Apple more or less abandon it 4 years ago.
The only thing Google provided was back end data. App it self was Apple's job and Apple failed at doing that.

Seriously. I don't know why people are so enthusiastic for an Apple map solution. Apple does great OS's and hardware but in general I find their software to be really lacking in a lot of features (the software is just too basic to the point of lacking stuff I would think even basic stuff would have).

I mean the map program is ok in my opinion for what it is, but it's one of Apple's better programs. And it is using Google's database and the info Google has. Which is something they will lose if they stop using Google... and that's a lot of info (google being in the search business has a lot). Why do we want them to stop using that? As plenty of people pointed out, Apple is not going to put the efforts into getting all that info nor do they have a search engine to be grabbing all that info.

I dunno, I will wait to see what Apple announces but I have to say, I'm a tad pessimistic if they are really replacing Google's maps, that is one thing I was hoping wouldn't happen.

As for this move, I think I am swayed by the argument that the last minute timing of this announcement and that they don't have a date says to me that this is Google trying to take away thunder from Apple's announcement. Which it has been pointed out is a common thing to do in business when you are competing. I don't know if I'd say desperation (I don't see why they would be desperate) more than just trying to diminish Apple's announcement and keep Google as what people think of first when they think maps. Which isn't desperation more than just good business sense (you want to keep yourself the first thing people think of when they think of your type product).

KnightWRX
Jun 6, 2012, 06:37 PM
Seriously. I don't know why people are so enthusiastic for an Apple map solution. Apple does great OS's and hardware but in general I find their software to be really lacking in a lot of features (the software is just too basic to the point of lacking stuff I would think even basic stuff would have).

Software is hit or miss with Apple, but they have a lot of really neat stuff there. Where they have shown the greatest weaknesses however is in online services. And maps is an online service.

2+2.

Is iMaps (or whatever they call it) doomed to follow in the steps of iDisk, MobileMe services, Ping ? Really would suck to lose Google's mapping tiles for a solution Apple would just abandon a few years down after having neglected.

daneoni
Jun 6, 2012, 06:40 PM
What do you mean all of those are already there ? :eek:

Theres never been a fully featured standalone Google Maps app written by Google on any 3rd party platforms nor have there been any hint of such a thing until today.

lincolntran
Jun 6, 2012, 06:41 PM
Does anyone really care about 3D buildings? I really don't see the need/point of it. Not for a standard maps program. I could care less what the building looks like. I can see other uses for this technology, though (flight sims, as others have pointed out).

I do. I don't know about you but for me I understand things better in 3d. When I look at maps or direction, I don't just look at left and right turn, I want to see the whole area as in real life. So 3d map help me alot.

scoobydoo99
Jun 6, 2012, 06:55 PM
I don't know about the content of the announcement, but the venue is terrible! The absolute first thing I noticed in the picture is that the ceiling is so low, it makes it look like they're in a closet. This projects a very poor image of the company. (Note I'm not saying the company is bad because they held the event in a small room, only that it isn't good marketing.)

Look at Apple's events (as crafted by Steve) - large stage, wonderful lighting, and a soaring ceiling that give a feeling of elegance and grandeur.

I know that theatrical staging may be considered irrelevant by some, but it's the type of careful crafting of an entire BRAND that Apple just GETS, while others do not. Even small decisions have an impact on people.

----------

It's not free my friend. There's no such thing as free, especially from Google. You just Pay for it in other forms. You pay for it by letting go of your privacy, whether you care about your privacy or not is another story.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! It gets so tiresome to read comments about why we should be so appreciative of "free" services, when they are NOT free! I could go on, but you said it all.

lecturenotes
Jun 6, 2012, 06:57 PM
That view of the cliff with the waves crashing really sold it to me. It looks absolutely stunning.

So proud that it was a bunch of Australians who pushed for google maps to go from a project they were making to a major product for everyone.

growlf
Jun 6, 2012, 06:59 PM
Reading this thread makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Doesn't anyone remember where any of this stuff CAME FROM?! Apple isn't writing it from scratch, much the same way Google didn't write things from scratch.

Liberal quoting from Wikipedia where appropriate.

Google Earth:

"Google Earth is a virtual globe, map and geographical information program that was originally called EarthViewer 3D, and was created by Keyhole, Inc, a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) funded company acquired by Google in 2004."

Google Maps:

"Google Maps first started as a C++ program designed by two Danish brothers Lars and Jens Rasmussen at the Sydney-based company Where 2 Technologies. It was first designed to be separately downloaded by users but the company later pitched the idea for a purely Web-based product to Google management, changing the method of distribution.[27] In October 2004 the company was acquired by Google Inc[28] where it transformed into the web application Google Maps."

Now let's take a look at Nokia's mapping today, given all the nonsense about Google innovating:

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/10/nokia-maps-3d-now-plugin-free/

Now, Apple needs to develop all this mapping talent on their own, right? Or...

Apple buys Placebace:

http://blogs.computerworld.com/14835/apple_purchased_mapping_company_in_july_to_replace_google

and Apple buys C3:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/business/item/24271-apple-buys-c3-3d-mapping

(Seriously, you like this Google stuff? Have you ever looked at the C3 demos people?!)

So, the question isn't really if Apple can do this, it's whether they've had the time to do a successful implementation/integration with iOS. I personally hope they do, as it wouldn't surprise me to see virtual billboards appearing in Google Maps/Earth as a next step by your marketing overlords.

And, for the people making fun of Siri as not posing a threat to Google search (no, I don't use Siri EVER either). You apparently don't recall Schmidt's comments on the subject very well, do you?

"In relation to Apple as a competitor, Schmidt calls Siri a “significant development” and that its effectiveness as a search tool somewhat blindsided Google. “Google has many strong competitors and we sometimes fail to anticipate the competitive threat posed by new methods of accessing information.""

OR, do you just think he was lying?

Anyway, thanks for the amusing thread. :eek:

KnightWRX
Jun 6, 2012, 06:59 PM
Theres never been a fully featured standalone Google Maps app written by Google on any 3rd party platforms nor have there been any hint of such a thing until today.

Why would they have made that when Apple was using their tiles for their own ? Duplication of effort ... Now that Apple is switching their tiles away from Google's, Google suddenly has an incentive to bring their own Maps app.

And yes, there was, it was called Google Earth. ;)

Swift
Jun 6, 2012, 07:04 PM
It never gets said in Google Fanland that there was no reason why Google pulled the full maps app now available on Android -- which gives you free, and excellent turn-by-turn, but they haven't seen fit to put it in their Maps app.

Their most obvious move would be to give us what Android has, and fast. Apple can't object, if Android just doesn't insist on programming their own way.

I hope Apple's version is amazing. But if it makes Google compete rather than giving their platform an advantage, that would be good.

Don't act like a monopoly, anybody.

----------

Reading this thread makes me feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Doesn't anyone remember where any of this stuff CAME FROM?! Apple isn't writing it from scratch, much the same way Google didn't write things from scratch.
-----

And, for the people making fun of Siri as not posing a threat to Google search (no, I don't use it EVER either). You apparently don't recall Schmidt's comments on the subject very well, do you?

"In relation to Apple as a competitor, Schmidt calls Siri a “significant development” and that its effectiveness as a search tool somewhat blindsided Google. “Google has many strong competitors and we sometimes fail to anticipate the competitive threat posed by new methods of accessing information.""

OR, do you just think he was lying?

Anyway, thanks for the amusing thread. :eek:

A Siri that comes out of Beta is a killer for Google. Why? Apple's not going to put ads in it, just search and commands.

Apple...
Jun 6, 2012, 07:05 PM
Just going to point out Google was never in charge of nor development the map app on the iPhone it sucks is Apple more or less abandon it 4 years ago.
The only thing Google provided was back end data. App it self was Apple's job and Apple failed at doing that.
While I agree that it is definitely Apple's fault for letting the maps app fall to pieces, I think they were focusing all their mapping energy for what's to be announced on Monday.

Flitzy
Jun 6, 2012, 07:06 PM
Yawn, sorry Google - you've outlived your usefulness about five years ago.

Come iOS6, we'll finally be free of your terrible products.

KnightWRX
Jun 6, 2012, 07:08 PM
It never gets said in Google Fanland that there was no reason why Google pulled the full maps app now available on Android -- which gives you free, and excellent turn-by-turn, but they haven't seen fit to put it in their Maps app.

What do you mean "their Maps app" ? Google put all their features in their Maps app, you can get it on any Android handset.

growlf
Jun 6, 2012, 07:10 PM
A Siri that comes out of Beta is a killer for Google. Why? Apple's not going to put ads in it, just search and commands.

I'm not saying that Siri is a google killer. But a product that delivers the results without delivering ad revenue to Google (LIKE Siri), is exactly what IS a Google killer.

Google is an advertising/marketing company. I don't like the idea that one company controls what the majority of the world thinks the "right" answer to any particular problem is. That's a tremendous amount of power in the hands of a company that takes money to promote products and services. It's downright creepy, and I can't really understand how people think otherwise. It's the Facebook generation, I guess.

nuckinfutz
Jun 6, 2012, 07:12 PM
Apple's had over 3 years to get Mapping done right. I expect a pretty polished product.

Just sayin.

Mr. Gates
Jun 6, 2012, 07:37 PM
Yawn, sorry Google - you've outlived your usefulness about five years ago.

Come iOS6, we'll finally be free of your terrible products.

Yawn, sorry Flizy - your fanatical hate of good technology in favor of Apple ass kissing is so five months ago.

Come on dude, be free of your terrible attitude toward technology and embrace the fact that not only Apple makes cool stuff.

It's a sad little bubble you live in

SPUY767
Jun 6, 2012, 07:43 PM
This is going to make flight simulators rock.

maclancer
Jun 6, 2012, 07:44 PM
I really want to see Apple with their own mapping technology but I don't believe that they will beat Google. Apple does not have cars running around the country or airplanes to take pics or video. Apple does not have the infrastructure or the wish to do what google do.

OtherJesus
Jun 6, 2012, 07:45 PM
I have used Google street view a handful of times in my desktop, otherwise I only use maps on my iPhone and normally I just use the "list" view, the view that uses no graphics, just lists the directions.

I understand some folks may get super excited about Google maps and their airplanes, etc., but if Apple maps can get me from point A to point B, then I personally won't miss Google maps on iOS. Not even a little bit.

Besides, as far as I can tell, Google hasn't done crap to improve iOS maps in several years.
Ya snooze, ya looze ;)

nick_elt
Jun 6, 2012, 07:45 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.

You must be trolling right???? Or are you just delusional? I own a mac and an iphone but two things google does well is maps and search engine. No other search engine comes remotely close. And no I def dont want to talk out loud to my phone for every search.

mbh
Jun 6, 2012, 08:00 PM
... Apple does not have cars running around the country or airplanes to take pics or video. ...

Do you know that for a fact? Apple's going to have to get their mapping data from somewhere. They may have been collecting data for the past few years, since they started buying mapping companies. It's not exactly something they'd advertise.

NorEaster
Jun 6, 2012, 08:01 PM
I'm not saying that Siri is a google killer. But a product that delivers the results without delivering ad revenue to Google (LIKE Siri), is exactly what IS a Google killer.

Google is an advertising/marketing company. I don't like the idea that one company controls what the majority of the world thinks the "right" answer to any particular problem is. That's a tremendous amount of power in the hands of a company that takes money to promote products and services. It's downright creepy, and I can't really understand how people think otherwise. It's the Facebook generation, I guess.

What?!?!? Are you freakin' kidding me? What makes you think Apple+Siri is any better? Apple controls the answers that Siri provides to you...you know that right? And don't forget that a) Apple created iAds to provide targeted ads to you and b) Apple has reserved the right to store and use whatever you tell Siri (and that usage allows them to provide this data to their partners).

supertonic
Jun 6, 2012, 08:08 PM
You can do this right now with Nokia Maps 3D on FF & Chrome:

http://maps3d.svc.nokia.com/

cnQ1SXhPILA

Thex1138
Jun 6, 2012, 08:10 PM
"In relation to Apple as a competitor, Schmidt calls Siri a “significant development” and that its effectiveness as a search tool somewhat blindsided Google. “Google has many strong competitors and we sometimes fail to anticipate the competitive threat posed by new methods of accessing information.""


Exactly!
Siri is search without Google ads for a third of the mobile market.
iMaps is a third of the mobile location telemetry gone!
Not to mention the traffic feature in iPhone maps being less reliable due to loss of telemetry from mobile devices.
If iOS 6 rolls out Siri/iMaps even to iPhone 4's/4S/5, iPad 2/3, iPod Touch 5+ then the location telemetry and search ad's displayed sent back to Google will be cut significantly.
:eek:

iMikeT
Jun 6, 2012, 08:20 PM
Perfect example of being reactive vs proactive about your IP.

b166er
Jun 6, 2012, 08:25 PM
I do. I don't know about you but for me I understand things better in 3d. When I look at maps or direction, I don't just look at left and right turn, I want to see the whole area as in real life. So 3d map help me alot.

In real life we are not soaring above the map and looking down from a 45 degree angle. Well, not most of us.

Call me old fashioned, but I think a map should look like a map. The less clutter and distraction the more likely I am to find what I need and how to get there. Then again I still use actual maps (remember the kind that came on paper?) from time to time so maybe I'm jaded from so many terrible experiences with a GPS.

Honestly if someone, anyone, created a GPS, be it an app or a stand alone unit, that actually worked, updated easily, didn't intentionally make you go crazy routes and waste gas, I would rejoice. The idea of GPS in your car/on your phone has been around a while now and no one has gotten it right yet. Don't get me wrong, there are some cool programs, but none of them do it all well.

bwillwall
Jun 6, 2012, 08:28 PM
If Apple's maps aren't as good as Google's are from the start I bet they will be the best within a few years. I for one am excited that Apple wants to stop relying on Google and other companies as much now that they have the financial ability and size to do so. In fact, hopefully Apple makes a search engine so that can be the default on Safari.

AbyssImpact
Jun 6, 2012, 08:28 PM
I can't wait for Apple's iMaps.

KnightWRX
Jun 6, 2012, 08:35 PM
If Apple's maps aren't as good as Google's are from the start I bet they will be the best within a few years.

Or Apple will abandon them in a few years, letting them suffer bit rot like other projects they've tackled and not had widespread success with.

JCCL
Jun 6, 2012, 09:07 PM
Good luck getting Google Maps approved for the iOS App Store.

Apple can and will change the rules.

That would hurt apple way more than it would hurt google

gotluck
Jun 6, 2012, 09:08 PM
I have used Google street view a handful of times in my desktop, otherwise I only use maps on my iPhone and normally I just use the "list" view, the view that uses no graphics, just lists the directions.

I understand some folks may get super excited about Google maps and their airplanes, etc., but if Apple maps can get me from point A to point B, then I personally won't miss Google maps on iOS. Not even a little bit.

Besides, as far as I can tell, Google hasn't done crap to improve iOS maps in several years.
Ya snooze, ya looze ;)

Blame Apple, they maintain the app...

cvaldes
Jun 6, 2012, 09:08 PM
I really want to see Apple with their own mapping technology but I don't believe that they will beat Google. Apple does not have cars running around the country or airplanes to take pics or video. Apple does not have the infrastructure or the wish to do what google do.
We don't know that.

Just the other day, I saw an unmarked vehicle equipped with a device that could have been a street view camera. This was in Mountain View, California which is Google's hometown and not far from Cupertino.

Historically, Google has identified their street view cars with signage or a custom paint job. This car was unmarked and unremarkable except for the unusual spinning device on the hood.

Apple is far more likely to do this stealthily than Google.

twoodcc
Jun 6, 2012, 09:09 PM
competition is a good thing. if apple uses a different mapping solution, and i can still choose to use google, that's more choice for me. sounds good

Rodimus Prime
Jun 6, 2012, 09:47 PM
----------

[/COLOR]

A Siri that comes out of Beta is a killer for Google. Why? Apple's not going to put ads in it, just search and commands.

Siri is a beta in name only. The 2nd Apple start advertising it as a feature on the phone it was no longer a true beta product. It is beta in name only. They just use the "beta" tag as an excuse.

kdarling
Jun 6, 2012, 09:48 PM
You can do this right now with Nokia Maps 3D on FF & Chrome:

Bing Maps has also had a Birds Eye view for years, which came from cameras on airplanes. Its main downside is that a lot of it was from one angle and it gets weird when you rotate :)

tdream
Jun 6, 2012, 09:54 PM
I don't expect Apple to best one of Google's core strengths.

kalsta
Jun 6, 2012, 10:16 PM
And now Apple is getting seriously into maps, look for a really fierce competition and for everyone to up their games in mapping, navigation and discovery, Apple, Google, Nokia/Microsoft.

competition is a good thing. if apple uses a different mapping solution, and i can still choose to use google, that's more choice for me. sounds good

And now we have two fleets of aeroplanes mapping the same cities, polluting the same Earth, and delivering a product that's going to look much the same after all the dust settles. Heaven help us if Microsoft decides they want to roll out their own version too.

Yeah okay, competition is good for consumer choice… but sometimes you have to question whether the benefits are worth the costs. Everything comes at a price… to someone. Google was doing a good job with maps and making it a free service, so I question the need for Apple to go this path. In some ways though, Google forced Apple's hand by competing head on with Apple in the mobile computing arena. The relationship is complex. I just find it a bit sad that this is the way it tends to go… Huge mega-companies trying to own and dominate every market, rather than focusing on what they do best and partnering with others. I mean, now we have Facebook talking about producing a phone for heaven's sake! Where will it stop?

genovelle
Jun 6, 2012, 10:17 PM
I think google STILL IS important in maps. What do you use when you're looking up an address on your desktop or laptop? Bing? Mapquest? or Google Maps? I venture to guess it's Google Maps.

Your signature speaks volumes of your maturity by the way.

Did he push your Google button?

doelcm82
Jun 6, 2012, 10:42 PM
In real life we are not soaring above the map and looking down from a 45 degree angle. Well, not most of us.

Call me old fashioned, but I think a map should look like a map. The less clutter and distraction the more likely I am to find what I need and how to get there. Then again I still use actual maps (remember the kind that came on paper?) from time to time so maybe I'm jaded from so many terrible experiences with a GPS.

Honestly if someone, anyone, created a GPS, be it an app or a stand alone unit, that actually worked, updated easily, didn't intentionally make you go crazy routes and waste gas, I would rejoice. The idea of GPS in your car/on your phone has been around a while now and no one has gotten it right yet. Don't get me wrong, there are some cool programs, but none of them do it all well.

Paper maps are never going to catch on, because in real life we're not looking at roads from above, and the real world is not made of paper.

I don't expect everyone to do their turn-by-turn navigation in full rendered 3D mode. Both Apple and Google's solutions will have options to use more traditional "flat" maps. The 3D options make the maps useful in ways that 2D maps are not, such as getting a good idea what your destination actually looks like. A flat map of a city is very misleading, especially if the city is one as non-flat as San Francisco.

The 3D options make maps more useful to me. If they aren't useful to you, you don't have to use them.

If it annoys you that the maps have an optional feature like photorealistic 3D, that's just a bonus for me.

chanyitian
Jun 6, 2012, 11:09 PM
If Apple stand by their values, which I hope they will, they choose google IF google is actually a better map product. "We just want to make a product as good as possible", I remember Jobs used to say. Hope they do so.
I totally agree with you. When i hear that Apple is dropping Google Maps, i was immediately reminded of this same quote from Steve Jobs. I hope Apple's map is really better than Google's. Moreover, I kinda like the new idea of 3D aerial shots from Google.

i.mac
Jun 6, 2012, 11:18 PM
Google and their maps remind me of the time, not too long ago, when ol'Steve from ol'MS tried to tell every one that would lend an ear that MS pads/tablets were imminent and great to behold...

----------

I totally agree with you. When i hear that Apple is dropping Google Maps, i was immediately reminded of this same quote from Steve Jobs. I hope Apple's map is really better than Google's. Moreover, I kinda like the new idea of 3D aerial shots from Google.

I would hold these types of comments for such a time when we actually know what the heck is apple doing with their map technology.

Why is every one putting down an apple product that has not been announced yet? Given apple history, every one knows -including google- that apple's map solution/product will be second to none.

needfx
Jun 6, 2012, 11:25 PM
I wasn't as impressed as with the saab map promo (exlcuding the army sequences)

wedouglas
Jun 6, 2012, 11:30 PM
Do you enjoy skimming posts?

You mock his reply as if he was talking about Siri as it is today.

He quite clearly said, and I quote:

"When Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential".

That's laughable at best. Here's a test. Ask a human being, perhaps a friend of yours, to do your next search on Google. You then do the very same search yourself. Select the results you like best, then show each other. I guarantee that you will prefer your results. In fact, his results might even be terrible.

Have you ever tried to convey your search intent over the phone to someone sitting at a computer? A real, live human being? It is so incredibly frustrating because the person on the other end of the phone doesn't know every little detail that you'd be looking for or using to qualify a given result. Most human beings 'suck' at the Internet, and even the ones who are capable of efficiently using a search engine can't possibly know every last drop of your search intent because it's not something that we convey with words or search. We can scan results so fast and process so much more information looking at results ourselves. Things like Siri would be equivalent to exlcusively using I'm Feeling Lucky.

Here's why: You know a very exact context of your search and what results will more than likely give you what you want. You know in your head things that you don't make obvious in your search. You know that even though the first results is a reuptable article, you'd rather read a result whose snippet includes the words hands-on or video rather than preview. You don't include those in your search because you ha no idea they existed 5 seconds ago, but now that you see a result snippet that mentions it, you click it. Successful searching relies on a heck of a lot more than just the initial keywords you used.

You know that a certain piece of information came out yesterday, and that any article in result dated 2 days ago couldn't possibly have the information you're looking for.

When I want to see Justin Bieber's latest music video, I want the one that doesn't look like a fan made still image video on YouTube because the original keeps getting taken down, but rather the one that's hosted on some non-YouTube site that is still active.

Siri = I'm Feeling Lucky. If human beings can't even understand your context, how will an iPhone? Searching ultimately comes down to the human being doing the search. That is why we have SERP and don't just get taken to one page or given some random piece of information. There are only so many questions that can yield exact, factual answers. The vast majority of searching is not true/false, yes/no.

needfx
Jun 6, 2012, 11:32 PM
I still have a hard time understanding the business case for this.

It must cost a fortune to effectively map the world from airborne platform in 3D, just so people can access it on google maps and google can sell a few ads? There must be another income stream in this somewhere that google isn't telling us about.

There is wealth in knowledge & data in themselves.
Information is the new currency

Renzatic
Jun 6, 2012, 11:41 PM
Google and their maps remind me of the time, not too long ago, when ol'Steve from ol'MS tried to tell every one that would lend an ear that MS pads/tablets were imminent and great to behold...

Except for the fact that Google Maps is out now, which already has an extreme amount of polish, and is currently the most widely used map service available. The hype we're getting now isn't for an entirely new product, rather extra features for an already popular one.

There's little doubt about the quality of Apple's new map app. The biggest question here is will it be as good as what we're already getting from Google.

MisterK
Jun 6, 2012, 11:53 PM
Google is AWESOME! It's crazy how bold they are with their initiatives. "We're going to buy planes and figure out how to make all cities 3D in maps". This is the world's leader in maps, by the way. Talk about not resting on your laurels. "We're going to work on a driverless car". "we're going to do augmented reality, heads up display glasses". "we're going to organize all the world's information". I love Apple. It's my no.1 favourite company, but Google deserves some serious kudos for innovation. Sure there is some stuff that Apple figured out with phones first. But there's a LOT that Google figured out first. Apple is the best at products and Google is the best at information. And sometimes they surprise each other. I hope they continue to work together so I get the most futuristic and best stuff possible. Oh.. And I love Facebook too.... Plenty of love to go around.

Squid7085
Jun 6, 2012, 11:56 PM
The earlier guy who said this was a "Last Ditch" has a bit of a point. Google created this press conference for a reason. I think it is likely Google was working on this for awhile, maybe after the C3 purchase or before. However, the press conference was not very well put together, it was Google saying "Hey look at the stuff we are doing." When Apple announces their maps next week, people will say THEY are following Google. It was nothing more than a tactical move, taking a product in the labs, not ready for the prime time and showing it off. Google is going to hurt by losing the iPhone, you are crazy to deny that. I dont' know what Apple will show off, I hope I am impressed, but I also love the idea that Maps will still be on iOS. It's really even better for everybody, Best of both worlds.

frabber
Jun 6, 2012, 11:59 PM
Isn't Google late to the 3d city mapping party? Best to remain silent untill you got something real to release. Hope they don't rush the pilots into flying overhours or a disaster will be awaiting.

cycomiko
Jun 7, 2012, 12:48 AM
I totally agree with you. When i hear that Apple is dropping Google Maps, i was immediately reminded of this same quote from Steve Jobs. I hope Apple's map is really better than Google's. Moreover, I kinda like the new idea of 3D aerial shots from Google.

I hope they are not dropping Google Maps for their own service as if its the one in iphoto, it sucks.

Well, actually, perhaps it works ok in the USA, but the larger majority of iPhone customers are not in the USA.

Locally, its worse than pathetic.

StyxMaker
Jun 7, 2012, 12:59 AM
So long as Apple's efforts aren't like iOS iPhoto maps... then I look forward to seeing what Apple has to offer. Apart from that competition is a good thing. Lets hope they can match or do better. But with Google's years of map development I am somewhat skeptical.

I would love an option to make the maps look like they are drawn on velum with an occasional "There be dragons here." thrown in for good measure.

mbh
Jun 7, 2012, 01:21 AM
Apple is far more likely to do this stealthily than Google.

If Apple put Google logos on their (hypothetical) cars, they could drive around and collect data and nobody would think anything of it.

macbookflasher
Jun 7, 2012, 01:27 AM
i,m very anxious to this technology
:apple:
it,d be proved very beneficial .

Renzatic
Jun 7, 2012, 01:43 AM
If Apple put Google logos on their (hypothetical) cars, they could drive around and collect data and nobody would think anything of it.

...I just got a great idea! Be right back! :cool:

kiljoy616
Jun 7, 2012, 02:20 AM
Would apple even allow google to have their maps app in the app store if they themselves want to get into the map business??

I hope they do, especially if it turns out Google Maps is superior. And considering the time, money, and energy Google has put into maps all these years I think it will be.

I don't think Apple wants to be in the Map business but Google Map on the iOS is way behind and Google is putting plenty of effort into Android which makes them a competitor to Apple in some areas. I am impressed with some of the things latest version of Android can do with maps and interactive, I still rather have my iPhone but Apple has to think of the future when a Google Phone will be as good or better :eek: than what Apple is selling at least at the UI level.

I am all for Apple going their way and developing something worth calling a Map app. The question will be if they make it compatible to the point we can use it just like we use tom tom or other similar products today.

tigress666
Jun 7, 2012, 02:27 AM
I don't think Apple wants to be in the Map business but Google Map on the iOS is way behind and Google is putting plenty of effort into Android which makes them a competitor to Apple in some areas. I am impressed with some of the things latest version of Android can do with maps and interactive, I still rather have my iPhone but Apple has to think of the future when a Google Phone will be as good or better :eek: than what Apple is selling at least at the UI level.

Except that is apple's map app, not Google's. The google part is the data the app accesses. But the features and UI and the app itself is all Apple. So you only have Apple to blame and now Apple wants to do the map info too (when they won't have near as extensive a database as Google as to where locations of businesses are).

frabber
Jun 7, 2012, 02:30 AM
also while this is a very cool mapping feature. I think it's only really usefull for terrorists and organized crime or even hooligans.

it would be better if neither Apple nor Google release such a feature
honestly what good can come off it , in these times we live...

chanyitian
Jun 7, 2012, 02:45 AM
I hope they are not dropping Google Maps for their own service as if its the one in iphoto, it sucks.

Well, actually, perhaps it works ok in the USA, but the larger majority of iPhone customers are not in the USA.

Locally, its worse than pathetic.

You mentioned ''the one in iPhoto''. by that, what exactly do you mean? i thought apple always had iphoto. ( pleasecorrect me if i am wrong)

garybUK
Jun 7, 2012, 02:51 AM
Fact is, Google doesn't even create most of their content, they license maps of Europe from Navtec a TomTom Company!!!! I think the fact that google has held back on iOS has created a monopolistic style push to make Android more attractive....

Fact is, the best mapping technology & software has always been on Nokia's... Nokia's maps blows google's out of the water, i was using Offline (full Europe & USA offline maps in 3D and 2D stored on a SD Card) in my Nokia N8 to drive around Tennessee and Europe with no data charges.

I really hope Apple do a fantastic world wide Turn by Turn sat nav solution.

Renzatic
Jun 7, 2012, 02:57 AM
also while this is a very cool mapping feature. I think it's only really usefull for terrorists and organized crime or even hooligans

Figures. I get this great idea, and next thing I know, some random guy shows up and starts guilt tripping me about it. :mad:

Cod3rror
Jun 7, 2012, 03:12 AM
Fact is, Google doesn't even create most of their content, they license maps of Europe from Navtec a TomTom Company!!!! I think the fact that google has held back on iOS has created a monopolistic style push to make Android more attractive....

Fact is, the best mapping technology & software has always been on Nokia's... Nokia's maps blows google's out of the water, i was using Offline (full Europe & USA offline maps in 3D and 2D stored on a SD Card) in my Nokia N8 to drive around Tennessee and Europe with no data charges.

I really hope Apple do a fantastic world wide Turn by Turn sat nav solution.

Google and Nokia/NAVTEQ use different technologies.

Nokia Maps manages to fit countries into megabytes, will Google manage to do that? They seem to have a different tiling system.

As for Google using third parties, they used NAVTEQ, till Nokia bought them, then they switched to Tele Atlas, noow they've started creating their own maps, they use their own maps in the US and slowly are starting to move to Europe, they use their own maps in the UK, Netherlands... lots of European counties, so they are trying to drop Tele Atlas where possible and I guess their goal is to drop them completely.

Everybody seems to get into maps nowadays, Nokia/NAVTEQ and TomTom/Tele Atlas are not the only sheriffs in town anymore, Google does their own thing, Microsoft is doing something, OpenStreetMap is getting bigger and bigger...

And while Nokia Maps has offline maps, it lacks Google's POI database of businesses and places, it also lacks lots of functionality, when creating a route you do not get the option of selecting one of several given routes, you only get one route and that's it. You cannot have multiple stop points, etc...

BTW, Nokia Map's website is really nicely done,

http://maps.nokia.com

I like the context menu, fonts and the layout.

Oletros
Jun 7, 2012, 03:17 AM
Fact is, Google doesn't even create most of their content, they license maps of Europe from Navtec a TomTom Company!!!! I think the fact that google has held back on iOS has created a monopolistic style push to make Android more attractive....

Fact is, the best mapping technology & software has always been on Nokia's... Nokia's maps blows google's out of the water, i was using Offline (full Europe & USA offline maps in 3D and 2D stored on a SD Card) in my Nokia N8 to drive around Tennessee and Europe with no data charges.

I really hope Apple do a fantastic world wide Turn by Turn sat nav solution.

Navteq is owned by Nokia

Any proof of Google holding back on iOS?

basjhj
Jun 7, 2012, 03:21 AM
What, Tomtom or Navigon enhancing iOS maps, do you know what are you talinkg about?

TomTom has a hard time staying relevant these days, so they might as well adapt, or otherwise perish. If I'm not mistaken, Navigon is part of Garmin, which as far as I know is still making a profit (contrary to TomTom, I should add), but fell almost 50% in 2011. In other words: they might not have much choice...

Oletros
Jun 7, 2012, 03:22 AM
also while this is a very cool mapping feature. I think it's only really usefull for terrorists and organized crime or even hooligans.

it would be better if neither Apple nor Google release such a feature
honestly what good can come off it , in these times we live...

You're joking, don't you?

Oletros
Jun 7, 2012, 03:25 AM
TomTom has a hard time staying relevant these days, so they might as well adapt, or otherwise perish. If I'm not mistaken, Navigon is part of Garmin, which as far as I know is still making a profit (contrary to TomTom, I should add), but fell almost 50% in 2011. In other words: they might not have much choice...

I can't believe that people can say that other companies have to ditch their technologies.

Do you really are saying that TomTom have to switch their maps to Apple ones? Really?

And Microsoft changing their backend in their Live app to Mobileme

garybUK
Jun 7, 2012, 03:44 AM
Navteq is owned by Nokia

Any proof of Google holding back on iOS?

I was probably a bit premature with the Google hold back statement, seems the map app is Apples....


But the Google Routes for UK SUCK!!! from MAnchester -> Glasgow, it tells me to go via Dublin!!!!!!!!!

Nokia's maps are so far ahead it's unbelievable, they do have a very extensive POI database and can search online. they also offer multiple routes..... this was a update they did before I switched from the N8 -> iPhone 4S.

I don't see why Apple didn't just buy someone like Navigon or TomTom and just in-house the already refined app's

----------

Google and Nokia/NAVTEQ use different technologies.

Nokia Maps manages to fit countries into megabytes, will Google manage to do that? They seem to have a different tiling system.

As for Google using third parties, they used NAVTEQ, till Nokia bought them, then they switched to Tele Atlas, noow they've started creating their own maps.

Seems they still use a bit of both, if you plot a route it still says at the bottom Copyright Google , Tele Atlas.

Relativistic
Jun 7, 2012, 03:47 AM
I still have a hard time understanding the business case for this.

It must cost a fortune to effectively map the world from airborne platform in 3D, just so people can access it on google maps and google can sell a few ads? There must be another income stream in this somewhere that google isn't telling us about.
Sponsored placings. Imagine driving by a store that adsense has selected based on your interests which will appear on the map. It could also become more like Yelp. By advancing the maps and making them better they will ensure complete dominance on the market.

Oletros
Jun 7, 2012, 03:50 AM
I was probably a bit premature with the Google hold back statement, seems the map app is Apples....


But the Google Routes for UK SUCK!!! from MAnchester -> Glasgow, it tells me to go via Dublin!!!!!!!!!

Nokia's maps are so far ahead it's unbelievable, they do have a very extensive POI database and can search online. they also offer multiple routes..... this was a update they did before I switched from the N8 -> iPhone 4S.

I don't see why Apple didn't just buy someone like Navigon or TomTom and just in-house the already refined app's

----------



Seems they still use a bit of both, if you plot a route it still says at the bottom Copyright Google , Tele Atlas.

Nokia Drive on WP7 doesn't have multiple routes.

Google Maps offers multiple routes and you have done something really weird because the route from Glasgow to Manchester is 215 mi through M6

Bezetos
Jun 7, 2012, 04:50 AM
Exactly!
Siri is search without Google ads for a third of the mobile market.
iMaps is a third of the mobile location telemetry gone!
Not to mention the traffic feature in iPhone maps being less reliable due to loss of telemetry from mobile devices.
If iOS 6 rolls out Siri/iMaps even to iPhone 4's/4S/5, iPad 2/3, iPod Touch 5+ then the location telemetry and search ad's displayed sent back to Google will be cut significantly.
:eek:
That's an exaggeration.

It is not true that a third of mobile phone users have an iPhone 4S. Not even a third of the mobile market is owned by Apple. Moreover Apple owns less then a third of the smartphone market (around 20%, that's a fifth), and assuming that a quater of that market is iPhone4S handsets that gives you 5% of the smartphone market (if we include iPhone4 models here that should increase to 10%, however I don't think Apple will introduce Siri to iPhone4). Apple is still selling a lot of iPhone4 models (and even the 3G ones) and not everyone has upgraded to the latest model.

arcite
Jun 7, 2012, 05:57 AM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.


I have to agree, even the presentation looks like they just dressed up a corner of the Google basement to do a quick powerpoint. Oh well. Bring on WWDC!!! :D:apple::apple::apple:

Rodimus Prime
Jun 7, 2012, 06:23 AM
I don't think Apple wants to be in the Map business but Google Map on the iOS is way behind and Google is putting plenty of effort into Android which makes them a competitor to Apple in some areas. I am impressed with some of the things latest version of Android can do with maps and interactive, I still rather have my iPhone but Apple has to think of the future when a Google Phone will be as good or better :eek: than what Apple is selling at least at the UI level.

I am all for Apple going their way and developing something worth calling a Map app. The question will be if they make it compatible to the point we can use it just like we use tom tom or other similar products today.

As pointed out before the map app on iOS sucks because it was Apple's job. I am will to bet Google's hand were tied in the fact they were not allowed to make a map app for iOS ad long as Apple was using their data.

Maps on iOS sacking is 100% Apple's fault

basjhj
Jun 7, 2012, 06:33 AM
I can't believe that people can say that other companies have to ditch their technologies.

Do you really are saying that TomTom have to switch their maps to Apple ones? Really?

And Microsoft changing their backend in their Live app to Mobileme

I'm not saying that they (read: TomTom or Navigon) should ditch their technologies. I'm merely arguing that MARKET FORCES may leave them no other choice but to adapt. Especially if it reverses to/increases profits.

Oletros
Jun 7, 2012, 06:38 AM
I'm not saying that they (read: TomTom or Navigon) should ditch their technologies. I'm merely arguing that MARKET FORCES may leave them no other choice but to adapt. Especially if it reverses to/increases profits.

But to adapt to what.

Ah, the OP claimed that Apple would force them to use Apple maps, not their own and that was what I was arguing

Digitalclips
Jun 7, 2012, 06:45 AM
Does anyone really care about 3D buildings? I really don't see the need/point of it. Not for a standard maps program. I could care less what the building looks like. I can see other uses for this technology, though (flight sims, as others have pointed out).

I couldn't care less what you think really, but I'm glad you could care less about 3D buildings, I agree, they are a huge improvement.

Cod3rror
Jun 7, 2012, 06:52 AM
I was probably a bit premature with the Google hold back statement, seems the map app is Apples....


But the Google Routes for UK SUCK!!! from MAnchester -> Glasgow, it tells me to go via Dublin!!!!!!!!!

Nokia's maps are so far ahead it's unbelievable, they do have a very extensive POI database and can search online. they also offer multiple routes..... this was a update they did before I switched from the N8 -> iPhone 4S.

I don't see why Apple didn't just buy someone like Navigon or TomTom and just in-house the already refined app's

----------



Seems they still use a bit of both, if you plot a route it still says at the bottom Copyright Google , Tele Atlas.

Yes, they still use Tala Atlas and some other companies for some countries while they are building their maps database. If you hover over England, you'll see that it's only Google now.

Ireland still uses Tele Atlas, that's why the map is outdated.

I actually found out about Google doing their own maps only yesterday while doing some research on Google Maps, till then I thought they strictly used Tele Atlas and that's it.

b166er
Jun 7, 2012, 08:18 AM
Paper maps are never going to catch on, because in real life we're not looking at roads from above, and the real world is not made of paper.

I don't expect everyone to do their turn-by-turn navigation in full rendered 3D mode. Both Apple and Google's solutions will have options to use more traditional "flat" maps. The 3D options make the maps useful in ways that 2D maps are not, such as getting a good idea what your destination actually looks like. A flat map of a city is very misleading, especially if the city is one as non-flat as San Francisco.

The 3D options make maps more useful to me. If they aren't useful to you, you don't have to use them.

If it annoys you that the maps have an optional feature like photorealistic 3D, that's just a bonus for me.

If they get me there using an efficient route I'll use them. If my signal doesn't crap out because I'm in the mountains I'll use them. By biggest beef with gps right now is that it constantly takes a longer route, gets me lost, or adds in unnecessary steps. No matter how much I play with the settings. That is why I will sometimes use a traditional map and plan ahead.

growlf
Jun 7, 2012, 08:38 AM
What?!?!? Are you freakin' kidding me? What makes you think Apple+Siri is any better? Apple controls the answers that Siri provides to you...you know that right? And don't forget that a) Apple created iAds to provide targeted ads to you and b) Apple has reserved the right to store and use whatever you tell Siri (and that usage allows them to provide this data to their partners).

That's an absurd comparison, and if you think it isn't...

Please report back to me where Apple makes its profits. Not off of iAds. I generally don't go for freebie apps, so I can't say I've seen one - probably speaks to its effectiveness. If iAds grew to the point where it was advertising to me everywhere I go, using my browsing history to target ads, etc. Yup, then it's just as evil.

And... Siri, from the privacy policy:

“All of this data is used to help Siri and Dictation understand you better and recognize what you say. It is not linked to other data that Apple may have from your use of other Apple services.”

Here you go:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/ibm-bans-siri-privacy-risk-or-corporate-paranoia-at-its-best/77843

So, yes, if Siri catches on and is used by the majority of the world as an authoritative source of information (note that it currently shows results being branded by Wolfram, Yelp, etc) AND provides NO transparency on how the results are generated, then yup, it's a new Google.

Until then, you're stupid and deluded.

Konrad9
Jun 7, 2012, 09:07 AM
Lol, Google's not going anywhere. Just like Apple isn't gonna suddenly enter the aviation business and put Boeing out. Apple isn't the world-dominating company some people think they are :rolleyes:

Jeebus man, tickets are expensive enough as it is, I don't even want to think how much a ticket would be for an Apple airline.

res08hao
Jun 7, 2012, 10:11 AM
I look at a lot of Street View photos and there are lots that are unusable-dirty camera glass, night shots, winter snow. etc. And many are way out of date.

fxtech
Jun 7, 2012, 11:08 AM
Well everyone knew Apple bought C3, who had been developing this for a while, so Google have had since Apple bought C3 to start developing their own version, which is why they only showed a small demo, gave no actual release date. Apple will announce theirs on monday, with a release in the next month, if it's in iOS 6 like everything points to.

Oh? I hadn't realized Apple had announced a release date for iOS 6.

AustinIllini
Jun 7, 2012, 11:12 AM
Oh? I hadn't realized Apple had announced a release date for iOS 6.

I thought the same thing. iOS 5 came out WAAAYY after WWDC last year.

kdarling
Jun 7, 2012, 11:23 AM
Please report back to me where Apple makes its profits. Not off of iAds.

Apple makes money from iAds. Not most of their profits, of course, but they started out charging a million dollars minimum per campaign.

I generally don't go for freebie apps, so I can't say I've seen one - probably speaks to its effectiveness. If iAds grew to the point where it was advertising to me everywhere I go, using my browsing history to target ads, etc. Yup, then it's just as evil.

Which brings up the question, what's "evil"? Targeted ads? Collecting info?

iAds uses our iTunes info, along with other info they collect, to sell targeted ads.

Apple lists these as some of the targeting available for iAds:

■Demographics
■Application preferences
■Music passions
■Movie, TV and audiobook genre interests
■Location
■Device (iPhone, iPad, iPod touch)
■Network (WiFi, 3G)
.
As Apple puts it, "Each ad is shown only to the audience you want to reach, in the apps they love and use the most. Our highly-effective targeting can leverage demographic data, as well as unique interest and preference data that taps into user passions that are relevant for your brand. Whether they are reading the news, playing a game or checking the local weather, your ad will make an impact."

What else should we expect from any company that sells ads? They're going to use our info to sell anonymous ad space. This allows them to claim (correctly) that our private info is kept private. If we then click on a targeted ad and give personal info to the advertiser, that's our choice.

CDCC
Jun 7, 2012, 12:57 PM
It's a great time for those of us who love maps!!! Between this and what Apple likely has brewing, the next year or two is in for a giant leap in personal, mobile 3D map technology.

When you look at this stuff, you just get that feeling of, "We DO live in The Future!" :D


I and other business people are STILL waiting for gis mapping tools to be added to these next generation mapping apps. We have only seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to mapping app growth. Currently gis map programs have not gone on mobile platforms yet. The market share will go to the first map app that does powerful things like - data capture, spatial analysis, map/data overlays, address geocoding, modeling, data analysis, projection views, geostatistics, cad tools, and gps tools.

gorjan
Jun 7, 2012, 01:04 PM
I really hope that Apple Maps are going to be really good, but sadly I'm afraid of a new Ping...

CDCC
Jun 7, 2012, 01:12 PM
Yes, they still use Tala Atlas and some other companies for some countries while they are building their maps database. If you hover over England, you'll see that it's only Google now.

Ireland still uses Tele Atlas, that's why the map is outdated.

I actually found out about Google doing their own maps only yesterday while doing some research on Google Maps, till then I thought they strictly used Tele Atlas and that's it.

They also used a ton of Navteq data. Google is now having the users update their maps like the Open Source Maps do. These data companies are not going to be around much longer. Anybody can now download open street maps data and use it for FREE. I remember when Navteq wanted to charge my company $10,000 for access to a couple city centerline databases. Gone are the days when gis centerline street data costed an arm and a leg to lease. To many retired people out there are now willing to work for free for Google! They need to wake up.

CDCC
Jun 7, 2012, 01:24 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.

Yes, Google could have huge revenue declines since a lot of people use Google Maps for business lookup. This has to be one of Apple's first goals is get a good business address overlay in their map program for lookups. This is a huge revenue generator and part of the Google Monopoly.

There are a ton of layers that Apple could add that would make lookups easier. To start, they could add a colored city polygon layer showing all city polygons. Currently, Google Maps only shows one city border in a city name search. This is totally worthless for business. You need to see cities by color fill. I hope Apple adds this as an on/off feature.

WeegieMac
Jun 7, 2012, 03:12 PM
That's laughable at best. Here's a test. Ask a human being, perhaps a friend of yours, to do your next search on Google. You then do the very same search yourself. Select the results you like best, then show each other. I guarantee that you will prefer your results. In fact, his results might even be terrible.

Have you ever tried to convey your search intent over the phone to someone sitting at a computer? A real, live human being? It is so incredibly frustrating because the person on the other end of the phone doesn't know every little detail that you'd be looking for or using to qualify a given result. Most human beings 'suck' at the Internet, and even the ones who are capable of efficiently using a search engine can't possibly know every last drop of your search intent because it's not something that we convey with words or search. We can scan results so fast and process so much more information looking at results ourselves. Things like Siri would be equivalent to exlcusively using I'm Feeling Lucky.

Here's why: You know a very exact context of your search and what results will more than likely give you what you want. You know in your head things that you don't make obvious in your search. You know that even though the first results is a reuptable article, you'd rather read a result whose snippet includes the words hands-on or video rather than preview. You don't include those in your search because you ha no idea they existed 5 seconds ago, but now that you see a result snippet that mentions it, you click it. Successful searching relies on a heck of a lot more than just the initial keywords you used.

You know that a certain piece of information came out yesterday, and that any article in result dated 2 days ago couldn't possibly have the information you're looking for.

When I want to see Justin Bieber's latest music video, I want the one that doesn't look like a fan made still image video on YouTube because the original keeps getting taken down, but rather the one that's hosted on some non-YouTube site that is still active.

Siri = I'm Feeling Lucky. If human beings can't even understand your context, how will an iPhone? Searching ultimately comes down to the human being doing the search. That is why we have SERP and don't just get taken to one page or given some random piece of information. There are only so many questions that can yield exact, factual answers. The vast majority of searching is not true/false, yes/no.

I hope you enjoyed typing that rant, cause I just quoted it to tell you I didn't bother reading it.

Renzatic
Jun 7, 2012, 03:26 PM
I hope you enjoyed typing that rant, cause I just quoted it to tell you I didn't bother reading it.

I guess ignorance really is bliss. Shame, cuz he brings up some good points.

-LikesMac-
Jun 7, 2012, 03:44 PM
I wonder if Google's going to release a standalone app for iOS...

shandyman
Jun 7, 2012, 03:45 PM
Oh? I hadn't realized Apple had announced a release date for iOS 6.

apologies, i thought i had typed next few months. it's either in the next month if they go back to previous cycle or by october if last years release marks the start of a new cycle. if that's the only issue with you have with my post, then thanks :) lol.

C3's demo over 18 months ago was more impressive....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaahKhvO_E4

WeegieMac
Jun 7, 2012, 04:14 PM
I guess ignorance really is bliss. Shame, cuz he brings up some good points.

Possibly, but a) I didn't even reply to him originally, and b) the original post was simply pointing out that the person mentioned a Siri of the future when it was mature and reaching potential as opposed to the unreliable state it is now.

markie
Jun 7, 2012, 06:00 PM
I don't blame Apple for wanting to be less dependent on their customers, but unless they switch to Bing Maps (I can't normally stand Microsoft, but for MAPS - Bing Maps is much more accurate and has much higher quality imagery in my area at least), they're going to almost certainly be downgrading their map quality, not upgrading it.

wedouglas
Jun 7, 2012, 08:40 PM
Possibly, but a) I didn't even reply to him originally, and b) the original post was simply pointing out that the person mentioned a Siri of the future when it was mature and reaching potential as opposed to the unreliable state it is now.

And I'm simply pointing out to you that it's irrelevant what the OP said, because how immature Siri is or how mature it becomes will still never be good enough. If you read my post, you'd realize that.

cycomiko
Jun 8, 2012, 01:38 AM
You mentioned ''the one in iPhoto''. by that, what exactly do you mean? i thought apple always had iphoto. ( pleasecorrect me if i am wrong)

The new maps they provide within their iOS iPhoto software.

ya know, this http://www.macrumors.com/2012/03/07/iphoto-for-ios-not-using-google-maps/

It is a POS

WeegieMac
Jun 8, 2012, 04:02 AM
And I'm simply pointing out to you that it's irrelevant what the OP said, because how immature Siri is or how mature it becomes will still never be good enough. If you read my post, you'd realize that.

I just seen an unnecessary rant toward someone who was merely pointing out that the person in question was not talking about the Siri of today. Your points, which I have now gone back and read, are indeed valid but the context in which you've used them is baffling.

I see your points, but they have very, very little relation to the post I made. You've taken one topic, a very throw away comment, and turned it into something it was never intended to be.

I am more than aware Siri is far from perfect, and being a Glaswegian I know only too well that the success rate is never going to be 100% due to my accent (unless I do a Siri male voice impression!).

However, you are somewhat arrogant if you think Siri will NEVER be good enough. You cannot comment on how accurate voice recognition software will be in 5 or 10 years time. So, in that regard, the point I made is quite right, where I said that the post I originally quoted did not proclaim the Siri of today to be great, but more that the Siri of the future, when technology has become more advanced, will be capable of more.

Siri, and you can take this to the bank, will one day recognise accents, local dialect, and what we say to the letter. It may not be in 5 or 10 years, it may not even be Siri which does it, but voice recognition software WILL one day become far, far, far more sophisticated than it is today.

When I was 6 years old, loading games from audio cassettes into my Spectrum 48k and waiting 25 minutes for games to load, never could I have imagined what technology would become in the mere 27 years since then.

From clunky rubber keyed, tape deck add-on, computers with cassettes and long loading times, to slim tablets that are instant on, with next to no loading time on software, with full 3D graphics and media editing and playback capabilities.

wedouglas
Jun 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
I just seen an unnecessary rant toward someone who was merely pointing out that the person in question was not talking about the Siri of today. Your points, which I have now gone back and read, are indeed valid but the context in which you've used them is baffling.

I see your points, but they have very, very little relation to the post I made. You've taken one topic, a very throw away comment, and turned it into something it was never intended to be.

I am more than aware Siri is far from perfect, and being a Glaswegian I know only too well that the success rate is never going to be 100% due to my accent (unless I do a Siri male voice impression!).

However, you are somewhat arrogant if you think Siri will NEVER be good enough. You cannot comment on how accurate voice recognition software will be in 5 or 10 years time. So, in that regard, the point I made is quite right, where I said that the post I originally quoted did not proclaim the Siri of today to be great, but more that the Siri of the future, when technology has become more advanced, will be capable of more.

Siri, and you can take this to the bank, will one day recognise accents, local dialect, and what we say to the letter. It may not be in 5 or 10 years, it may not even be Siri which does it, but voice recognition software WILL one day become far, far, far more sophisticated than it is today.

When I was 6 years old, loading games from audio cassettes into my Spectrum 48k and waiting 25 minutes for games to load, never could I have imagined what technology would become in the mere 27 years since then.

From clunky rubber keyed, tape deck add-on, computers with cassettes and long loading times, to slim tablets that are instant on, with next to no loading time on software, with full 3D graphics and media editing and playback capabilities.

Yeah, but voice recognition is irrelevant to Google search. It doesn't matter how good it can understand dialect or expressions because voice recognition isn't what provides you with the information you need. How does voice recognition replace Google search? How does Siri replace anything other than a keyboard?

Yes, theoretically Siri could become a search engine in the future and Google's search technology could theoretically learn to make sandwiches. That's a ridiculous way to put it though. What you'd want to say is that Apple could create a search engine that only Siri has access to and Google could build sandwich making machine that only its search bar can control.

In reality, Google is far more likely to create a Siri-like service that interacts with its search engine than Apple is to create a search engine that interacts with Siri.

Siri will only ever be as good as the products/services from which it gets its data. I can say Siri will never be good enough because it doesn't make sense to take Siri out of the context in which it currently exists, just like it doesn't make sense to take Google search out of a search engine context and stick into into a manufacturing one. Siri exists as voice recognition software interfaced with a bunch of different services on which it depends for its answers/actions, and that's it. Why even bother mentioning it if you are just talking about some other completely unrelated, theoretical, future product?

Which goes back to my question: How would Siri replace Google search for anything other than yes/no, factual information? Most revenue creating searches do not fall into these categories in the first place and most searches don't benefit from these kinds of results. Not to mention that Google is already pursuing all the same stuff and has 100x the expertise, technology, and sheer indexed information for this kind of stuff than Apple.

JAT
Jun 8, 2012, 12:05 PM
There are other mail apps, browser apps, reminder apps, messaging apps, out there. Why wouldn't they allow maps apps?

I think there is nothing to be worried about Apple bringing their own maps. Healthy competition. And you can only expect improvements to their maps since this would be their entry.

Considering Apple has been using Google's maps for years with no direct "map" app from Google itself, and no other choices from Apple itself, it seems more likely they have an exclusivity agreement about maps. And considering the recent activity about maps from both companies, I'd say that agreement is just about to run out.

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I'm not saying that they (read: TomTom or Navigon) should ditch their technologies. I'm merely arguing that MARKET FORCES may leave them no other choice but to adapt. Especially if it reverses to/increases profits.

They have been adapting. They all have apps out, at least on iOS.

shandyman
Jun 8, 2012, 05:38 PM
I don't blame Apple for wanting to be less dependent on their customers, but unless they switch to Bing Maps (I can't normally stand Microsoft, but for MAPS - Bing Maps is much more accurate and has much higher quality imagery in my area at least), they're going to almost certainly be downgrading their map quality, not upgrading it.

You're so certain they're downgrading?! When you haven't even seen it?! Lol. Wow. If anything, it's definitely an upgrade, check out the C3 YouTube link I posted a few posts up, you'll see.


The new maps they provide within their iOS iPhoto software.

ya know, this http://www.macrumors.com/2012/03/07/iphoto-for-ios-not-using-google-maps/

It is a POS

You do realise that the maps in iPhoto is just temporary placeholder which will change when iOS6 comes out, Apple wouldn't have given it the full blown new maps and spoil their announcement Monday... Use some common sense mate!

Renzatic
Jun 8, 2012, 06:47 PM
You're so certain they're downgrading?! When you haven't even seen it?! Lol. Wow. If anything, it's definitely an upgrade, check out the C3 YouTube link I posted a few posts up, you'll see.

The C3 stuff is pretty impressive, I'll give you that. But is it more impressive? They both look about equal to me. A slightly different implementation of the same idea.

flyingacedude
Jun 8, 2012, 06:51 PM
Google is in panic mode, and this ad hoc presentation with no product availability date show it. They're basically saying "Hey, we used to be important in maps." What's worse is that Apple will probably move completely away from Google in the next few years. Maps is just the beginning; Google search will be obsoleted when Siri and semantic voice search comes to its full potential.

Eh? Google are the best at maps currently. They didn't used to be important in maps, they are important in maps. Apple dont have a map product.

Therefor Google>Apple at maps.

Siri should never have been sold on the iPhone in anywhere other than the US. Its not finished and releasing unfinished/second rate products is not the Apple way.

shandyman
Jun 9, 2012, 02:36 PM
The C3 stuff is pretty impressive, I'll give you that. But is it more impressive? They both look about equal to me. A slightly different implementation of the same idea.

Pretty equal? google is only now equal as C3 was 18 months ago, there's definitely been improvements made by C3/Apple and Google don't even have a hint as to when it's going to be released.... Google are playing catch up here....

Renzatic
Jun 9, 2012, 03:22 PM
So far, all we've seen out of both the new Google Maps and the tech backing Apple's map app are a bunch of swishy "ooh 3D" effects. This doesn't tell us what's so much better about each one, how they're more useful, or what the big improvements are over what we currently use. All we know right now is that they're going to be nicer looking.

Will Apple have access to as much raw data as Google? Will it be more precise? Easier to use? Right now, Google Maps is fairly precise and easy to use, and it'd take a huge amount of effort on Apple's part to reach parity with them, let alone improve upon the things Google has already done.

So I'm still going to say that it'll be good, but will it be as good, or better than what we currently have?

nuckinfutz
Jun 9, 2012, 03:27 PM
Eh? Google are the best at maps currently. They didn't used to be important in maps, they are important in maps. Apple dont have a map product.

Therefor Google>Apple at maps.

Siri should never have been sold on the iPhone in anywhere other than the US. Its not finished and releasing unfinished/second rate products is not the Apple way.

Voice technologies always need a lot of sample data so you often have to put them in the wild and them fix them as you gather data.

shandyman
Jun 9, 2012, 03:41 PM
So far, all we've seen out of both the new Google Maps and the tech backing Apple's map app are a bunch of swishy "ooh 3D" effects. This doesn't tell us what's so much better about each one, how they're more useful, or what the big improvements are over what we currently use. All we know right now is that they're going to be nicer looking.

Will Apple have access to as much raw data as Google? Will it be more precise? Easier to use? Right now, Google Maps is fairly precise and easy to use, and it'd take a huge amount of effort on Apple's part to reach parity with them, let alone improve upon the things Google has already done.

So I'm still going to say that it'll be good, but will it be as good, or better than what we currently have?

We know that part of what apple is using is OSM, as well as C3, which if you saw the latter in action, looks very easy to use. Google still shows where I live as empty land, my house is 7 years old, so google is behind, where as open street maps shows my whole estate.

Have a look at the companies apple bought up for maps and what they did, you'll get an idea of what's coming

We'll see more on Monday anyway

Dbrown
Jun 9, 2012, 09:23 PM
You're so certain they're downgrading?! When you haven't even seen it?! Lol. Wow. If anything, it's definitely an upgrade, check out the C3 YouTube link I posted a few posts up, you'll see.

C3 3D tech may be better... but at the end of the day its just a smokescreen to cover up the fact that apples map app will be inferior to google maps.

SactoGuy18
Jun 9, 2012, 11:37 PM
I think if Apple wants a decent competitor to Google Maps, they better provide large amount of funds to help the people doing OpenStreetMap to develop maps that are just as good as Google Maps. I wouldn't be surprised that Apple's new iOS map program uses OpenStreetMap data.

MacinDoc
Jun 9, 2012, 11:53 PM
Google executives also took questions from the audience. Brian McClendon, VP of Engineering for Google Maps, said Google was "really proud of Google Maps (http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/6/3068266/google-maps-ios-commited)" and that the company was "committed to offering those services on all platforms". Based on these statements, it seems likely Google will offer a standalone iOS app for Google Maps even if Apple chooses to implement its own mapping solution in the native iOS Maps app, much like it does for the existing Google Earth app (http://appshopper.com/travel/google-earth).
In other words, if it's not available under iOS6, it's Apple's fault.

I can understand why Google showed off their upcoming mapping offerings. They have upstaged Apple with presumably similar technologies to what Apple will be offering, but because they're not selling a product, they can afford to announce upcoming offerings before they are ready to deploy because there are no sales to be lost on current products while the public waits for the next thing to arrive.

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C3 3D tech may be better... but at the end of the day its just a smokescreen to cover up the fact that apples map app will be inferior to google maps.
Spoken with a lot of certainty from one who hasn't seen the product.

You may be right, but I'll wait for Monday to find out.

shandyman
Jun 10, 2012, 04:03 AM
C3 3D tech may be better... but at the end of the day its just a smokescreen to cover up the fact that apples map app will be inferior to google maps.

So you've seen Apple's map app already? care to share with us more details?

basjhj
Jun 12, 2012, 02:45 AM
But to adapt to what.

Ah, the OP claimed that Apple would force them to use Apple maps, not their own and that was what I was arguing

Well, it now appears that TomTom joined the Apple ship. Smart move.

Oletros
Jun 12, 2012, 05:27 AM
Well, it now appears that TomTom joined the Apple ship. Smart move.

And still nothing to do with what the OP said.

TomTom had a deal with Google, no has another with Apple and, at the same time, sell their app

kdarling
Jun 12, 2012, 07:46 AM
Well, it now appears that TomTom joined the Apple ship. Smart move.

Not sure that Apple had any other good choice other than going with TomTom-owned TeleAtlas.

NavTeq is generally considered to be much better data (Garmin licenses it and Google used to), but NavTeq is now owned by Nokia and Apple probably wanted to avoid depending on them.

basjhj
Jun 13, 2012, 05:23 AM
And still nothing to do with what the OP said.

TomTom had a deal with Google, no has another with Apple and, at the same time, sell their app

I was responding to your comments specifically, and not the OP. Otherwise I would have done so.

Oletros
Jun 13, 2012, 11:55 AM
I was responding to your comments specifically, and not the OP. Otherwise I would have done so.

I don't get your point, TomTom hasn't adapted to nothing

Rodimus Prime
Jun 13, 2012, 12:09 PM
Not sure that Apple had any other good choice other than going with TomTom-owned TeleAtlas.

NavTeq is generally considered to be much better data (Garmin licenses it and Google used to), but NavTeq is now owned by Nokia and Apple probably wanted to avoid depending on them.

Depends in the country. I was reading up on those NavTeq has better maps in the US and TeleAtlas has better European maps