Full iBook Specs [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

reyesmac

Nov 3, 2002, 11:12 PM

An iBook for under $1,000, see Apple, that wasnt so hard now was it? Now that the prices are just right, its only a matter of waiting for them to be spec for spec as good as the competition. I'm talking DVD players and more Ram on all models. But, since we will not ever get that, these are good enough. These look like good Macs to buy to hold me over until the G5's get here.

MacAztec

Nov 3, 2002, 11:18 PM

What it is:

$999, CD-ROM, 12.1", 700MHz G3, 128MB, 20GB
$1299, Combo Drive, 12.1", 800MHz G3, 128MB, 30GB
$1599, Combo Drive, 14.1", 800MHz G3, 256MB, 30GB

What it should be:

$999, DVD/CD, 12.1", 700MHz G3, 256MB, 20GB
$1299, Combo Drive, 12.1", 800MHz G3, 512MB, 30GB
$1599, Combo Drive, 14.1" (1280x1024), 800MHz G3, 512 or 768MB, 40GB
32MB Graphics on all models

reyesmac

Nov 3, 2002, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by Nebrie

What were you expecting? Superdrive, G4, bluetooth and $500 price tag?

It's this attitude of low expectations about Apple actually giving us something competitive in hardware specs and costs that allows them to sell 5 year old technology at a premium price in todays market. Maybe if we held Apple under a microscope and told them what we want to see all the time, they would deliver. If you just accept everything they give you without pointing out what they need to improve on, we will end up getting farther and farther behind every other computer manufacturer and OS.
These price cuts should have been done a long time ago. They are starting to do a good job on pricing now with their whole consumer line but they are doing terrible at actually updating their computers to do more and be faster every year. So it looks like they will not be getting much faster next year if they resorted to dropping prices.

I do need to state however that the prices for the i line of Macs is great, but that they should have been faster than they are now if Motorola was doing their job and everybody knows it.

porovaara

Nov 3, 2002, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by reyesmac

It's this attitude of low expectations about Apple actually giving us something competitive in hardware specs and costs that allows them to sell 5 year old technology at a premium price in todays market.

I completely agree. If those are the specs for the iBook they really aren't anything special for $999. Apple needs to start ponying up and be more willing to have slightly lower profit margins.

DannyZR2

Nov 4, 2002, 12:09 AM

I'm just tired of having to wait 6-9 months for any kind of update at all. (in most cases). Look at other companies. Dell (I hate dell) updates their line twice as often as Apple, if not more. This leads apple fans to only buy when a new line comes out and if it's been 4-5 months, buying slows down because of an expected update. Updates should come every 3-4 months accross the board IMHO. It would make things seem faster even if the were just minor updates.

dnelsongb

Nov 4, 2002, 12:11 AM

I'm not impressed anymore. :(

The last 3 releases have been lack-luster.

Sure your giving your product Jaguar away. Well, I've seen entertainment shows give away tickets because nobody has bought tickets anyhow.

I've been a life long, non-bandwagon, stick to my guns, stick up for Apple kinda guy. I haven't any reason to anymore.

somebody please, give me a reason to hang on.

Rajj

Nov 4, 2002, 12:16 AM

For a thousand dollars, you should least get a DVD model….

:o :(

vniow

Nov 4, 2002, 12:22 AM

Originally posted by dnelsongb

somebody please, give me a reason to hang on.

reason enough for me (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html)

jadariv

Nov 4, 2002, 12:41 AM

I have to agree. I love macs, but in this day and age, you should at least have a dvd drive (combo drive) for that grand.

shadowfax

Nov 4, 2002, 12:55 AM

good call edvniow.

i know that mac users are in between a rock and a hard place on hardware.. but to defect to M$ is about the dumbest thing you can do. they don't have a future. if you want *nix and are willing to deal with it, more power to you. but not M$. it's cheap mass marketing. all the speed you can ask for.... with all the dictatorial control of fascist germany. M$ is already far more obstrusive than i am comfortable with, and they clearly have no intention of getting better. au contraire.
the day they come out with a windows that stifles winamp 3 (or other winamp) is the day i never buy a microsoft product again. ever.

that was horrifying but helpful, edvniow. that was even more disturbing than apocalypse now. by far.

solvs

Nov 4, 2002, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by edvniow

reason enough for me (http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html)

Wow!

I knew it was going to be bad, but not that bad. This is going to be a big problem. WHERE DOES IT END? I can just see M$ and Intel highjacking everyones PCs, forcing everyone to upgrade whenever they deem it necessary, giving them open access to your sensitive infomation, leaving their software buggy and wide open to hackers and malicious viruses and spyware due to a load of (known) security flaws... oh, wait. They already do that.

But it will get worse.

Not that I pirate software or music or anything. :D

vniow

Nov 4, 2002, 01:25 AM

That's just the beginnning.

I read the part about the serial #s on PIIIs and I was like WTF?!?
I've got a PIII and I never knew about that until I started reading up on it. Not something the average consumer would know, that's for sure.

MS may have gotton off with just a minor slap on the wrist in the antitrust case, but being declared innocent didn't make OJ popular either.

The really scary thing about all this is people are going to buy it.
Palladium is something that's going to become a reality in the next five years. Anybody who onwes MS's latest software should be seriously considering alternatives right now.
I know I am.
Since I can't afford a Mac, I'm trying out Linux on my system right now and while things are going a bit shaky, I can say that hopefully within a couple months, I will have banished all MS from my system permanetly.
I feel sorry for the PC users that don't know about this and will continue to buy MS products.

Funny thing is, most people won't care.
Palladium won't be so bad for those who don't pirate software or rip MP3s to their computer. It won't affect anybody who pretty much keeps everything to themselves and there's a lot of people that do just that.
For them it shouldn't be a matter of privacy or security, it should be a matter of principle.

I love it when people say 'WMP copy-proteced my files!' and someone comes back to them and says, 'don't you know you can turn that off?'
My question is , 'why the hell does it have to be there in the first place?

If the government won't do anything (and I doubt they will since nothing has been done yet) then it's up to the consumers to fight the battle.

This means war.

reyesmac

Nov 4, 2002, 01:41 AM

Who cares about all that future windows stuff? If you buy an old 800mhz PC that is still enough to be able to play more games than you would ever have time to play and be able to ad other things to the computer that is real expensive to do on the Mac. I would never switch completely to the darkside, but for a few hundred dollars you can have a used system that you can use to do things you can't on the Mac you currently own. I mean, why pay $500+ for an upgrade card when you can just get a PC to hold you over? You would then have the best of both worlds without the worries. The only software you would have to buy on the PC is games or a TV PCI card or stuff like that.

I will hold out for one more Macworld and then I will decide if I should upgrade or just get a PC which my wife needs and use both.

I really feel bad for Apple because I know I am not the only one that hopes Apple has some miracle plan at Macworld that will calm everybody down.

Who here thinks that Apple will be able to satisfy OVER 50% of thier customers with whatever they come out with this next Macworld? I would say they have a 50% chance.

I know someday I will blow an insane amout of cash on a new Apple system, I just hate having to wait so long for a good deal.

boobers

Nov 4, 2002, 02:27 AM

The crappy thing is Apple can't really advertise that " Our computer allows you to pirate music and movies unlike the competitions ". Also, Apple currently has the respect of the entertainment community but may lose that respect if the community sees that they are not "following the trend" to DRM and preventing copyright infringment on the home computer. At some point Apple may be strong armed into DRM on their OS. M$ corporate asskissing could be damaging to the whole computer industry.
I heard Spiderman sold 7 million dvd's the day it opened. Thats pretty good eh? On anther note i saw a web page that states a company is working on a dvd player that will play divx movies...These are strange times we live in.

wow that was a completely random post...that ibook would be nice if only it had a g4 in it..at 999.00, do i ask for too much? prolly

hatter10_6

Nov 4, 2002, 02:38 AM

13 inch screen is so little to ask for... :(

Is this upgrade supposed to last us another 6-9 months? It is very upsetting. I feel hungry already. IT's good that we are getting a price cut AND a CPU boost, but it is NOT significant enough to be warranted a major upgrade status. The line-up is almost unchanged.

Going over this board, the most frequently asked feature is a 13 inch screen, and they can't deliver that. Why is Apple keeping a 14 inch line? Does any one really enjoy that machine that much? If they replace that with a 13 inch screen, and keep the same price, I would still buy it. But, not the 14 inch screen.

TopGear

Nov 4, 2002, 04:19 AM

Just went to the PowerPage.org site to check the specs a second time. The first time, it was up and running. Now (10 minutes later) it says

"Sorry, this story is missing, or there is a problem with it. It may not be imported yet, you may just have the wrong ID, or the database might just be having a fit. please click here to email us a problem report. Thanks!"

How fast does Apple Legal move? It reminds me of the Simpsons episode, when Homer says, "Let's go home, kids." And Lisa says, "We are home, Dad." And then Homer says, "That was fast."

IN ANY CASE, I for one am jazzed by the price cuts / speed bumps. I've been waiting to buy a 12" 700 mhz iBook for a while. Now I can get a 12" machine at 800 mhz for $200 less? Fantastic. If they also include 32 MB VRAM and a better graphics card, I'll be floored.

Topper

gandalf55

Nov 4, 2002, 06:07 AM

... please repeat after me...

BFD

Hmm

Nov 4, 2002, 06:14 AM

Keep in mind that no matter what Apple came out with, a bunch of people would still be pissed off. I don't think any amount of complaining to Apple is going to change how they release their products, nor do I think they're lining their pockets with the enormous profit margins they're getting on the iBook. I would have liked to have seen a 13" screen myself, but a $200 price drop and a small speed increase isn't bad. Would you rather they simply not released any new iBooks at all?

Chaszmyr

Nov 4, 2002, 06:30 AM

Guys its been the same with Apple for years. A big "blow your mind" release (like the imac), then nothing major for a long while. Don't get all upset about every little update, just be thankful we are getting some updates... And more importantly, be thankful we are getting price drops! a 999 notebook is awesome... When i got my powerbook G3 it costed over $5000.
I have confidence Apple will come out with some next big thing... but we have to wait until then.

DaveGee

Nov 4, 2002, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by TopGear
Just went to the PowerPage.org site to check the specs a second time. The first time, it was up and running. Now (10 minutes later) it says

"Sorry, this story is missing, or there is a problem with it. It may not be imported yet, you may just have the wrong ID, or the database might just be having a fit. please click here to email us a problem report. Thanks!"

How fast does Apple Legal move? It reminds me of the Simpsons episode, when Homer says, "Let's go home, kids." And Lisa says, "We are home, Dad." And then Homer says, "That was fast." Topper

I wouldn't read too much into it... All of the stories on PowerPage say that (not just the 'rumors'). I think they are having database issues.

Dave

Blackcat

Nov 4, 2002, 06:49 AM

While I'm sure these specs are right (no brainer), is it just me that doesn't think PowerPage is very accurate? In the last 6 months they've predicted:

- Powerbooks with bluetooth in August
- 1.2Ghz Powerbooks
- No Powerbooks till 2003
- External Superdrives
- Apple PDAs

If we get a 1.2Ghz Bluetooth Powerbook with external Superdrive on Wednesday, they'll be doing better :D

TopGear

Nov 4, 2002, 07:17 AM

Originally posted by DaveGee

I wouldn't read too much into it... All of the stories on PowerPage say that (not just the 'rumors'). I think they are having database issues.

Dave

I bet you're right. After all, it's still pretty early (Left Coast Time) for Apple Legal's stormtroopers to get into action. But three hours later, Powerpage is still having database issues... I guess it will be resolved or explained soon.

TG

Somebody

Nov 4, 2002, 07:48 AM

The crappy thing is Apple can't really advertise that " Our computer allows you to pirate music and movies unlike the competitions ".

You're right. However, Palladium will likely strengthen the appeal of the Mac's "It just works" marketing.

I don't think Palladium is going to be seamless and transparent, especially not in the beginning. There are likely to be issues that noticably undermine usability. Macs will seem just that much easier to deal with in comparison.

wenwess

Nov 4, 2002, 08:00 AM

Apple dropped the base ibook price for education to $899 last week.

drastik

Nov 4, 2002, 08:42 AM

Man, I am pumped about this update, the 12 with the combo is the one for me.

For the weak willed out there wqho are complaining:

I don't think you are going to sway applt too much. Here is what you are saying.
"I own this beautiful sturdy reliable Bently that never breaks down and treats me like a king. Its not fast enough though, so I'm going to get this rickety, slapped together miata that the maker says will do a a hundred and sixty, but the transmission fell out before I could get that fast and I'm really just driving to the video store to rent starwars again anyway."

wankers

TyleRomeo

Nov 4, 2002, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by MacAztec
What it is:

$999, CD-ROM, 12.1", 700MHz G3, 128MB, 20GB
$1299, Combo Drive, 12.1", 800MHz G3, 128MB, 30GB
$1599, Combo Drive, 14.1", 800MHz G3, 256MB, 30GB

What it should be:

$999, DVD/CD, 12.1", 700MHz G3, 256MB, 20GB
$1299, Combo Drive, 12.1", 800MHz G3, 512MB, 30GB
$1599, Combo Drive, 14.1" (1280x1024), 800MHz G3, 512 or 768MB, 40GB
32MB Graphics on all models

ok were talking about iBook specs not powerbook specs. The price drop comes because outside of a slight MHZ jump were really not getting that much more on these iBooks. This is similar to the original dual 1GHZ having a $500 price drop as all apple did is make it faster then the dual 800 add an extra 256MB of ram and Nvidia's Geforce 4MX graphics. Ohh and iBooks can only support upto 640MB ram inside, so I don't know where you got the idea thay they hold 768MB?

Tyler

fixyourthinking

Nov 4, 2002, 09:25 AM

The Ogrady website posts whatever they can to get hits so they can sell ads for more money. They predicted indiglo technology and wacom tablets as a CERTAINTY for the last rev of TiBooks. They also post a lot of info prematurely, like the Oyster PowerBook stand being a good stand.

akula47

Nov 4, 2002, 09:26 AM

I don't think powerpage.org knows jack, and historically they have NOT been accurate. They are just posting some old news and then being very conerative about the hardware specs. The price cut has been talked about for 4-5 days now. So they are not saying ANYTHING knew. Just another rumor.

However, this rumor is not too bad for the iBooks. An ATI 7500 32mb for the iBook would be a real treat though.

The statements about the Powerbooks are off in my opinion. I bet it comes with an ATI 9000 (32mb or 64mb, not sure), and bluetooth, but not superdrive. 933 being the top model.

TopGear

Nov 4, 2002, 09:26 AM

Originally posted by drastik
Man, I am pumped about this update, the 12 with the combo is the one for me.

For the weak willed out there wqho are complaining:

I don't think you are going to sway applt too much. Here is what you are saying.
"I own this beautiful sturdy reliable Bently that never breaks down and treats me like a king. Its not fast enough though, so I'm going to get this rickety, slapped together miata that the maker says will do a a hundred and sixty, but the transmission fell out before I could get that fast and I'm really just driving to the video store to rent starwars again anyway."

wankers

Ha ha ha. Man, I am pumped too, I don't know what everybody's complaining about. The guy across the desk from me has a 12" 500 mhz machine he loves, with good reason: it's dope. And now I'm gonna get the same iBook, only flying at a much faster 800 mhz with a bigger L2 cache? For less money than he paid? Oh yeah.

TG

mr evil brkfast

Nov 4, 2002, 09:29 AM

It had better have 32MB Graphics on all models to make up for the G3 using OS X.

TopGear

Nov 4, 2002, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by mr evil brkfast
It had better have 32MB Graphics on all models to make up for the G3 using OS X.

I hope so, too. The jump to 16 MB in May was good, but not nearly enough. Hopefully this revision will bring it up to 32: far better for Quartz Extreme.

sjonni

Nov 4, 2002, 09:51 AM

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: This is below belt!!!

Mr T

Nov 4, 2002, 09:53 AM

Buyer Beware:

I have an 600 iBook and it is slow as Hell. No way I am going to make the same mistake again. My recommendation is wait for the 1.2 G3 with decent cache- it is the best chip for the iBook and will probably make into the next ibook. The people who are responding that their current Ibooks are fast enough have to be light weights. I experience lots of spinning beach balls (or whatever it is called now in 10.2) so if you want to do email only or just use word the the iBook can handle it . Yes, I did put in more ram and it makes OS 10 border line acceptable but it is annoying when you have to wait for your OS to catch up with you.

This is the last revisions that will Boot OS 9 so it is not in apples best interest to sell kick ass computers. They want to bump up the line to stimulate sales for this quarter but they don't want the large amount of os 9 users to stay on OS 9. The faster hardware will probably come out next year and will 'force' the upgrade to OS 10. Apple is playing this delicate balancing act and I hope most consumers stop buying until they put out products that they are capable of making and stop crippling their hardware.

ibookin'

Nov 4, 2002, 10:41 AM

I hope that the new PowerBook has a SuperDrive. My uncle is looking to buy a new laptop and it would be great if he didn't have to buy a Sony to get the DVD-R drive. Also, since he is going to be using it for video purposes it would be nice if it had a 1GHz+ CPU with a Radeon 9000 video card.

1.5GB Ram would be nice...

They could put the third slot SOMEWHERE... or have the 512MB on the motherboard.

drool...:D

ibookin'

Nov 4, 2002, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Mr T
Buyer Beware:

I have an 600 iBook and it is slow as Hell. No way I am going to make the same mistake again. My recommendation is wait for the 1.2 G3 with decent cache- it is the best chip for the iBook and will probably make into the next ibook

With Jaguar my 500MHz iBook performs very well. It is no G4 Dual 1.25GHz, but it can do everything I want it to do well. It even runs Maya, although it takes a long time to render.

Oh, and by the way, are you the Mr. T of Spymac? Just asking.

nero007

Nov 4, 2002, 10:54 AM

The current iBook probably has one of the best (if not the best) chips in an Apple computer right now. The only problem is, Apple has severly crippled it so that it won't look better than the tiBook. The Sahara G3 reached 1ghz over an year ago and can have a FSB of 200mhz. Remember, this is an IBM G3 chip... Apple has just seemingly dumbed it down for the tiBooks sake. Remember how the last revision could be overclocked via software. #1 sign that this chip could easily deliver more.

gotohamish

Nov 4, 2002, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by ibookin'@mwny
I hope that the new PowerBook has a SuperDrive. My uncle is looking to buy a new laptop and it would be great if he didn't have to buy a Sony to get the DVD-R drive. Also, since he is going to be using it for video purposes it would be nice if it had a 1GHz+ CPU with a Radeon 9000 video card.

1.5GB Ram would be nice...

They could put the third slot SOMEWHERE... or have the 512MB on the motherboard.

drool...:D

Considering how much we preached the megahertz myth on these forums, we have to overcome the mental barrier. How much better is a 1Ghtz chip compared to a 999Mhz chip. I KNOW it's a milestone, but I find it really hard to believe people with $3000+ to spend on a laptop are even CONSIDERING different operating systems. Doesn't anyone have investment in software anymore or has the internet killed loyalty and law abiding practices?

dongmin

Nov 4, 2002, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by Mr T

I have an 600 iBook and it is slow as Hell. No way I am going to make the same mistake again. My recommendation is wait for the 1.2 G3 with decent cache- it is the best chip for the iBook and will probably make into the next ibook. The people who are responding that their current Ibooks are fast enough have to be light weights.

Umm, what planet are you from??? A 1.2 ghz G3? So after they've gone from 700 to 800 mhz in five months, it's gonna jump 400 mhz for the next revision?

Can you say 'troll'?...

Yes the people who say that their current iBook are fast enough are 'light weights.' That's who the iBook is targeted for, not for editing feature-length films or doing fancy filters on 100-mb photoshop files. If you're a 'heavyweight' user, you shouldn't be running an iBook in the first place.

mr evil brkfast

Nov 4, 2002, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by dongmin

Umm, what planet are you from??? A 1.2 ghz G3? So after they've gone from 700 to 800 mhz in five months, it's gonna jump 400 mhz for the next revision?

Can you say 'troll'?...

Yes the people who say that their current iBook are fast enough are 'light weights.' That's who the iBook is targeted for, not for editing feature-length films or doing fancy filters on 100-mb photoshop files. If you're a 'heavyweight' user, you shouldn't be running an iBook in the first place.

I agree that the next ibook revision may, if we're lucky include a 1 ghz G3; not 1.2. Regardless of it being a consumer machine, Apple should take every step to making it a viable os x machine by including at least 32 MB of video and 900mhz processor if they are going to leave a 100 mhz bus. The only thing welcome about this revision (ibook and powerbook) is the price drop - if indeed there is one.

bretm

Nov 4, 2002, 11:31 AM

Either you think Apple makes a better product than windows or you don't. I for one believe their product is infinitely better in every way applicable to my needs. For example, I don't play games on my mac. I have a PS2 for that and prefer sitting in front of a 27" TV on my couch.

If you looked at the Q4 results for apple, it's obvious they're not hording money and profits. They're reinvesting the profits into R&D and marketing.

I expect to pay more for a better built and integrated piece of hardware and OS. I expect to pay more for an OS that fully supports networking (oh wait - MS charges at least a hundred bucks more for that). I expect to pay more for built in 802.11b support that doesn't require a PCI or PCMCAI card. I expect to pay more for style and design (like how easy it is to install and upgrade components of a G4 tower). I expect to pay more for included software like iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, iCal, AppleWorks, and a great mail and address book app built in, installed and free. These apps are arguably better than any on the PC side (in the same class obviously) that aren't free. AND they're integrated and updated with the OS through the simple software update panel.

And now that all my macs are unix based, I can click one preference and be instantly running an apache server over my dsl line. (And I am actually) The unix stuff is just insanely cool - but I realize not many folks will give a damn about that.

If you enjoy XP and Wintel boxes better than what macintosh has to offer, I highly recommend you switch to their platform. It is after all less expensive. But I see a lot of people here saying they wish they could afford a mac. That says alot to me. It says they understand value. They wish they had the money to pay for something better. I mean, I wish I could own a porsche, but I can't.

Blackcat

Nov 4, 2002, 11:33 AM

QE doesn't need 32MB on an iBook. It has 32MB on Power systems because of dual monitor support or the 23" Cinema Display - two 1024x768 screens will need twice as much VRAM.

Having used both a 700Mhz iBook and Ti800 I can honestly say X does not run massively faster on the 32MB card.

This 32MB vs 16MB is just willy waving as far as iBooks are concerned.

arn

Nov 4, 2002, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by mr evil brkfast
It had better have 32MB Graphics on all models to make up for the G3 using OS X.

From what I've heard, it will have 32MB.

arn

jefhatfield

Nov 4, 2002, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Macrumors
PowerPage.org (http://www.powerpage.org/story.lasso?newsID=10160) posted full specs on the upcoming ibooks

$999, CD-ROM, 12.1", 700MHz G3, 128MB, 20GB
$1299, Combo Drive, 12.1", 800MHz G3, 128MB, 30GB
$1599, Combo Drive, 14.1", 800MHz G3, 256MB, 30GB

No Bluetooth, No iBook Superdrive. They claim Powerbook details coming soon...

yes!!!

under one grand

Mad Baggins

Nov 4, 2002, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by bretm
I expect to pay more for included software like iTunes, iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, iCal, AppleWorks, and a great mail and address book app built in, installed and free.
If you're "expecting to pay more," then it's not "free", is it?
:confused:

But I see a lot of people here saying they wish they could afford a mac. That says alot to me. It says they understand value. They wish they had the money to pay for something better.
"Value" is not just quality, but also price. People are paying approximately the same money for an x86 laptop as an iBook would cost, because ultimately they feel the x86 has more value. But if these lower prices rumors are true, then the iBook's "value" should increase along with sales. :)

Frobozz

Nov 4, 2002, 12:09 PM

Some people may be dissapointed by the specs on the iBook, but the price is right and these ARE entry level machines. No, you can't get a faster PC laptop for that money. Additionally, the iBook won't be using the G4 for a long time. The iBook really doesn't need much more. You could put a 3 GHz G3 in it and it wouldn't be much faster with it's current bus speed, hard drive speed, and memory architecture. The reason being that entry level models usually give you last year's speed on the desktop in the laptop configuration.

I'm happy with these config's. I know a lot of people with iBooks and not a one of them complains about speed at that price. Now, If they had shelled out for a Titanium and felt slow, I could see their complaint-- because they would be paying over 2x as much. :-)

I think people worry about the RAW CPU speed too much. Honestly, I have a 2 x 1 GHz Quicksilver and I spend much more time waiting for my Hard Drive than the CPU's.... rarely do I see them pegged. I think Apple is moving in the right direction, and the iBook speed bump is a step in the right direction for entry level people.

avus

Nov 4, 2002, 12:28 PM

Consider this spec for a Notebook that is on sale right now:

¥ 800 MHz processor
¥ 12.1 TFT display
¥ CD-ROM
¥ 30 GB Drive
¥ 128 MB memory

All for $1799

What a ripoff, you might say. Well, the laptop is Dell Latitude X200. Sure, the X200 is lighter and slimmer than the iBook and you can buy their other doorstop notebook for $899 (with a 1.5 GHz Celeron...). But is the X200 worth $800 more than the iBook? No.

I do agree that IBM's Sahara G3 is prefect for a consumer laptop such as the iBook. I am tempted to order a base iBook with a DVD-ROM drive ($50 more as custom build option at Apple Store) for $1049.

Cappy

Nov 4, 2002, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by avus
Consider this spec for a Notebook that is on sale right now:

¥ 800 MHz processor
¥ 12.1 TFT display
¥ CD-ROM
¥ 30 GB Drive
¥ 128 MB memory

All for $1799

What a ripoff, you might say. Well, the laptop is Dell Latitude X200. Sure, the X200 is lighter and slimmer than the iBook and you can buy their other doorstop notebook for $899 (with a 1.5 GHz Celeron...). But is the X200 worth $800 more than the iBook? No.

Whoah! That laptop is not even close to being intended for the market that the ibook covers. Look through the rest of the laptops that Dell sells and configure them, then look at the price and functionality. This $200 price drop helps but there needs to be some changes made to make it even more appealing. I don't need tons of cpu horsepower myself but a higher cap on ram would be nice to have. 640MB max is insane for a laptop being sold today. Having the option for an 802.11a card would be nice. Haven't seen any 3rd parties with this yet. One of the benefits of the PC market is having options. That's something Apple doesn't truly offer to specific markets very well.

Don't get me wrong. I like Macs alot but you have to keep things in perspective. They have their strengths but they also have a number of weaknesses that shouldn't be to remain competitive.

yzedf

Nov 4, 2002, 12:48 PM

WTF is Apple thinking? $999.00 is great, if it is a usable machine. CD-Rom only? That is lame.

As for everyone whining about the 13" screen size, I am sure that Apple realizes that there is no point to it, if it does not include an increase in screen resolution. The 12" is the best looking LCD I have ever seen. Why ruin it with a 13" that would still be at 1024 x 768? Why else do you think the 12" is more popular, not accounting for price? "The 12" just looks better" is what most people say.

As for the TiBook, god, please, make the damn keyboard bigger! Include a 'Page Up' and 'Page Down' button. That narrow keyboard on the wide-screen frame looks cheap. A $3000+ machine should be better. Get rid of the nast 2-tone paint job, it just makes the plastic bit look nasty, not to mention the flaking issues. And while they are at it, re-design the latch for the iBook. $600 to do a swap fix is insane (out of warranty cost).

People will pay the money if the product is exceptional. And I mean in every sense, not just visual.

dabirdwell

Nov 4, 2002, 12:52 PM

Just watching trends...

Do you think Apple may be putting forth this update to have something new on the shelves for Christmas and give OS9 people one last chance to buy a new machine? Could they be selling off all the 12 and 14 inch enclosures before January when they go to a 13 inch all OSX model. Maybe with consolidation of manufacturing they can keep the 13" at the same price points as the currently anticipated price changes.

Maybe some components are lagging and they need until Jan., maybe it's just smart marketing to get rid of the old school iBooks before they can't be sold because of the new model.

With Arn's news that Ti's may not be updated until January, is this possible?

Conjecture, conjecture....

allpar

Nov 4, 2002, 12:53 PM

We have an original G3 - 333 and I must say it's certainly fast enough for Web surfing, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and the usual round of suspects. 'Course it's on 9.2 and not OS X. But it should NOT be on OS X ... not with a G3. That little G3 is a fine ol' chip and does what it's supposed to do quite nicely. I've had PC laptops running at three times the clock speed that didn't do nearly as well!

Somebody

Nov 4, 2002, 01:10 PM

Do you think Apple may be putting forth this update to have something new on the shelves for Christmas and give OS9 people one last chance to buy a new machine?

Yes on the 'something new for Christmas'. No on the 'give OS9 people one last chance'. Apple seems to want users to move to OS/X as quickly as possible. Otherwise they wouldn't be deliberately breaking OS9 compatability next year; They'd just call it 'unsupported' and no longer ship machines with it.

isaacnewton

Nov 4, 2002, 01:28 PM

when can people expect to see these (ibook) releases? i just had mine stolen and am looking to buy a new one soon.

thank you,
isaac

Pants

Nov 4, 2002, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by yzedf
WTF is Apple thinking? $999.00 is great, if it is a usable machine. CD-Rom only? That is lame.

As for everyone whining about the 13" screen size, I am sure that Apple realizes that there is no point to it, if it does not include an increase in screen resolution. The 12" is the best looking LCD I have ever seen. Why ruin it with a 13" that would still be at 1024 x 768? Why else do you think the 12" is more popular, not accounting for price? "The 12" just looks better" is what most people say.

As for the TiBook, god, please, make the damn keyboard bigger! Include a 'Page Up' and 'Page Down' button. That narrow keyboard on the wide-screen frame looks cheap. A $3000+ machine should be better. Get rid of the nast 2-tone paint job, it just makes the plastic bit look nasty, not to mention the flaking issues. And while they are at it, re-design the latch for the iBook. $600 to do a swap fix is insane (out of warranty cost).

People will pay the money if the product is exceptional. And I mean in every sense, not just visual.

yep - and while they are at it - PUT THE FRIGGIN' usb port on THE RIGHT of teh ibook so that an apple mouse is actually usuable by the majority of teh world! apples attention to ergonomics is usually excellent, but the usb port on the left means the cable has to go around the back, cross the power jack and make apple mouse (nicked off my imac) cable unusably short!

(p.s.- big up to the chap that pointed out that gcc now supports altivec a few weeks back :) cant seem to get it to improve things much , but it does do *something* ! :) I suspect its lack of perormance boost is a 'me' issue...)

arn

Nov 4, 2002, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by isaacnewton
when can people expect to see these (ibook) releases? i just had mine stolen and am looking to buy a new one soon.

thank you,
isaac

Tuesday/Wednesday... so soon.

arn

reyesmac

Nov 4, 2002, 01:44 PM

The $999 iBook just shows what a rip off the previous models were. The only thing that is different from the previous $1,499 model is that the $999 model only has a CD drive (pathetic in todays market) and not a combo drive. Other than that, the new $999 model is exactly the same as last weeks $1,499 model. And seeing as how you can overclock the CPU on those models, it looks to me that the insides of these things are the same on all models! The only thing that changes is the amount of ram (always not enough) and the CD drive.

Since the 14' model does not give you one more pixel than the 12' model gives you, the only thing that makes it different than the cheaper ones is that the memory is 128megs more and that it is less portable than the other ones. So now the high end iBook still looks overpriced. Maybe if it had a faster CPU it would be worth buying but it does not even have that.

Am I expecting too much out of Apple? Yes I am, because if they were competative on the iBooks and iMacs, they would end up being more feature rich and faster than the current Powerbooks and Powermacs due to all the stuff $1,000-$1,999 PC's have (PC laptops have faster buses and have most of the connections that Powerbooks have). And maybe thats the problem. Should I bother complaining or should I just be happy I can afford a Mac? Should I not worry that the Mhz speed does not go up more than 100Mhz a year? Apparently they are listening to complaints about price and are doing something about it, so I guess I will just write more letters to Apple.

Mad Baggins

Nov 4, 2002, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by avus
Well, the laptop is Dell Latitude X200. Sure, the X200 is lighter and slimmer than the iBook and you can buy their other doorstop notebook for $899 (with a 1.5 GHz Celeron...). But is the X200 worth $800 more than the iBook? No.The nicest thing about the x86 world is having more choices. That X200 may not be worth it to you, but Dell sells zillions of other laptops. And if there's somebody out there who does need a 2.8 pound 0.8" thick laptop (probably with bad graphics and battery), now we all know it's at Dell.

The minor problem at Apple is that there aren't too many configs to choose from, and no "clone" makers. A lot of folks here want a 13.3" iBook for instance (or full-size arrow and PageUp/Down keys in my case), but we're pretty much at Apple's mercy here. :mad:

Over Achiever

Nov 4, 2002, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Mad Baggins
The nicest thing about the x86 world is having more choices. That X200 may not be worth it to you, but Dell sells zillions of other laptops. And if there's somebody out there who does need a 2.8 pound 0.8" thick laptop (probably with bad graphics and battery), now we all know it's at Dell.

FYI, the same manufacture that makes the Dell x200 makes the similar Gateway 200. And the Sony Vaio and Sharp Mebius has similar 12.1", under 1", 3 lbs "design" too, but only the sharp mebius is two spindled, i.e. has a combo drive included ;)

iShater

Nov 4, 2002, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by wenwess
Apple dropped the base ibook price for education to $899 last week.

Where do you see that? the online Edu store doesn't have it. Is it in your school's store? :confused:

Tue12

Nov 4, 2002, 02:16 PM

I'll reserve final judgment until the update is released, but...

... it will be disappointing if Apple sticks with a CD-ROM in the low end model. Would it kill them to offer a CD-RW as an upgrade option for $50 or something.

pgwalsh

Nov 4, 2002, 02:40 PM

I'm all good with the udates. I would like to see all apple models at 1Ghz, but that's within time. :( IBM has had a 1Ghz G3 for a while and that would be great to see now.

I will more than likely buy one of these, but I'm concerned with the functionality when using OSX, PhotoShop, Illustrator, and GoLIve. etc. Illustrator is a slug on 9.2.2. Don't know how much I'll use PS or AI on it because I prefer the desktop and high res monitor. For travelling I may need to so I'm a bit concerned.

I've heard it both ways for the G3 good performance/bad performance. How will OS X truely perform on these machines?

joshbuddy

Nov 4, 2002, 03:23 PM

i just phoned one of the apple stores in NY ... told the guy i was driving down from canada, had an ibook on order from apple but they kept delaying and delaying ... asked him if he had any ibooks in stock. he said yes .. i asked him.. is there a new release this week... obviously he couldn't tell me. but i asked.. well.. its a long drive, should i come now and get it? he told me to wait a couple of days.

;) hopefully this is a good thing...

ryan

Nov 4, 2002, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by joshbuddy
i just phoned one of the apple stores in NY ... told the guy i was driving down from canada, had an ibook on order from apple but they kept delaying and delaying ... asked him if he had any ibooks in stock. he said yes .. i asked him.. is there a new release this week... obviously he couldn't tell me. but i asked.. well.. its a long drive, should i come now and get it? he told me to wait a couple of days.

;) hopefully this is a good thing...
People at the Apple stores do not have any advance knowledge of unreleased Apple products beyond what they read on websites like this one.

ryan

Nov 4, 2002, 03:35 PM

(and with apolgies to toupsie (http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=44140&cid=4593976) )
BMW. What's up with those snotty Germans? I really want one of their M-Series cars in the form factor of a VW Bug with a 1000 CD-Disc Changer & MP3 Player w/ OGG support (Fraunhofer can stick it! Snotty Germans!), corinthian leather and all the rest of that German goodness (Can you say that?). I've got my own tires from my old car but those arrogant sausage eaters won't sell me a Beemer without tires. Why can't I get one of those!? Why do I have to pay the tire tax?

BMW is never going to have a large market share if they don't let customers buy the cars the way they want. They will just be a niche car company selling expensive cars to really arrogant, snotty people that think they are superior to everyone else. Plus I hear their owner likes to wear black all the time.

job

Nov 4, 2002, 03:38 PM

I'm kinda miffed that they only included 128MB Ram in the mid-range model.

Other than that, the new revision is great.

medea

Nov 4, 2002, 03:39 PM

Is it just me or should Apple stop selling macs without at least a cdburner, with the death of the floppy how are people supposed to backup or save information? Buy an external drive is how, in which case that $999 price tag isnt so great anymore. If it had at least a DVD drive then I guess that would be fine, but it doesn't. Having a laptop for under a grand is a big move for Apple, but unlike the eMac I doubt that people are going to be prasing this as a great bargain......

psymac

Nov 4, 2002, 04:31 PM

Full Specs? How about video ram, still 16 or now 32mb? Also, max ram the same or increased? OS 9 boot still OK?

Some of us just can't wait until Wednesday.....:D

3777

Nov 4, 2002, 07:49 PM

shadowfax

Nov 4, 2002, 08:06 PM

good call :rolleyes:

TeraRWM

Nov 4, 2002, 09:41 PM

No G4, no GHZ for iBook, nice to see my old iMac DV is still almost "State of the art" in Apple Hardware........ another reason I'm glad I "switched" back to PC for my primary systems...... maybe in 10 years Apple will have some hardware worth the investment over my iMac.....

Yeah, and MicroSoft writes a good, secure operating system to make justifing the "switch" worth it.

Face it, right now x86 has better hardware and Apple has better software. When it comes down to it what do you want? Speed or something years ahead of the other guys?

Remember we have "the power to crush the other kids" and I'm not talking speed, I'm talking about perfection. don't expect Microsoft to do that with Pallidum or whatever they're calling it.

shadowfax

Nov 4, 2002, 11:20 PM

Tera, it seems like you are being sarcastic, but the whole post seems unclear to me. could you clarify some of the antecedents to the pronouns you used?

timmi

Nov 5, 2002, 03:06 AM

is the ibook release date a general "worldwide" release date or only for the U.S?
thx
timmi

pmpete

Nov 5, 2002, 02:22 PM

I don't know why the Ti book line should be such a sacred cow for the superior technology. A top of the line model, iBook with a L3 less G4 and a Superdrive would be the cats PJ's. Besides a lot of people would never buy a Ti due to its fragile design. Think what the kiddos could do to one of them in short order. Unlike the nearly kid proof iBook. Besides Apple let the iBook have a combo drive before the Ti. Why not again? Sales are sales and none should by bypassed at this time.