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MacRumors
Jun 8, 2012, 08:57 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/08/apple-to-introduce-third-macbook-line-with-retina-display-at-wwdc/)


KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo today issued a new report outlining his belief that Apple's thinner, Retina-equipped Mac notebook will arrive next week as a new model, referring to the machine simply as a "MacBook". Kuo believes that this MacBook will be offered alongside upgraded versions of the existing 13-inch and 15-inch MacBook Pro models, with Apple being reluctant to do away with the current 13-inch design in particular due to its massive popularity.We expect Apple (US) to unveil a new MacBook series independent from the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro lines at Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) in June. We expect the new MacBook to have the following features:

(1) Basic 13" model to be priced at US$1,199
(2) No disc drive
(3) To come in both SSD and HDD
(4) Lighter and slimmer than MacBook Pro, with equal computing power
(5) Retinal display with tapered edge, larger battery capacityKuo also reiterates his earlier claims that Apple will discontinue the 17-inch MacBook Pro (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/23/apple-predicted-to-discontinue-17-inch-macbook-pro/) this year, citing estimates that the model makes up only 1% of Apple's notebook sales.

The introduction of this new "MacBook" model would leave Apple with a lineup of six notebooks, although Kuo predicts that issues with display yield and heat dissipation will push the release of the 13-inch MacBook back until August, leaving only the 15-inch model to make its debut next week.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/kuo_2012_notebook_lineup.jpg


Mention of an independent graphics chip on 13" MacBook Pro is an error - should be integrated graphics
We should note that this configuration of models is not accounted for in our speculation on part numbers (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/06/alleged-new-part-numbers-suggest-over-a-dozen-new-mac-models-coming-at-wwdc/) that leaked earlier this week, but we did receive an unconfirmed tip of a different configuration that would match up with Kuo's claims fairly closely. In that scenario, new iMacs are not accounted for in the list and the J30/J31 model numbers represent updated 13-inch and 15-inch MacBook Pro models while the D2 model represents this new Retina-equipped 15-inch MacBook.

Kuo believes that Apple will wait until next year to re-simplify its notebook lines with Intel's Haswell platform, at which point the company will merge the MacBook Pro and this new MacBook model, leaving a set of four models: 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Airs and 13-inch and 15-inch MacBooks.

We do find Kuo's claims to be somewhat difficult to believe, as we fail to see how this new "MacBook" model is substantially different in performance from the MacBook Pro and thus do not see why users would be interested in a non-Retina MacBook Pro given the existence of this new MacBook line. Given the scenario outlined by Kuo, the only "advantage" of the thicker MacBook Pro would be an included optical drive, but users are finding such a feature to be increasingly unnecessary and easily replaceable by digital downloads such as through the Mac App Store, direct file transfers, and cloud-based storage, with an external optical drive available to be connected only on the rare occasions when necessary.

Still, Kuo has offered accurate information on Apple's notebook plans in the past, being the first to outlined the MacBook Air redesign that included the new 11-inch model, and thus we feel that his claims are worth some consideration and discussion.

Article Link: Apple to Introduce Third MacBook Line with Retina Display at WWDC? (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/08/apple-to-introduce-third-macbook-line-with-retina-display-at-wwdc/)



CausticPuppy
Jun 8, 2012, 09:00 AM
That's just silly.

ciociosan
Jun 8, 2012, 09:00 AM
If it has a retina display, I hope they man up and call it the EyeBook

ugru
Jun 8, 2012, 09:00 AM
Science Fiction....

cmChimera
Jun 8, 2012, 09:00 AM
Not happening.

Paix247
Jun 8, 2012, 09:01 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense that the new ones would be the Pro machines and then the current 13" (and maybe the 15") MacBook Pro would just drop the Pro?

rmwebs
Jun 8, 2012, 09:01 AM
I hope we dont see ANOTHER line up of MacBooks.

I'd rather they consolidate it more.

The difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro is now very minor. Just have a MacBook line that is the thickness of the Air, and then offer a wide range of performance options (e.g still have a 11" at 1.6ghz, but also have a 15" with an i7.

It just seems to be silly to me to have such a wide range when they could just have a single lineup of laptops that are as thick as the air (or slightly thicker).

Mad Mac Maniac
Jun 8, 2012, 09:03 AM
Really couldn't imagine this happening.... Doesn't really make a lot of sense.

WoodNUFC
Jun 8, 2012, 09:03 AM
what he's describing is a bigger MacBook Air really. His comment about the same computing power as a pro makes me scratch me head. How could they cool such a computer in such a small form factor? I could be wrong, but that seems to be a rather large hurdle.

basesloaded190
Jun 8, 2012, 09:03 AM
I hope we dont see ANOTHER line up of MacBooks.

I'd rather they consolidate it more.

The difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro is now very minor. Just have a MacBook line that is the thickness of the Air, and then offer a wide range of performance options (e.g still have a 11" at 1.6ghz, but also have a 15" with an i7.

It just seems to be silly to me to have such a wide range when they could just have a single lineup of laptops that are as thick as the air (or slightly thicker).

Hence this part of the story: "Kuo believes that Apple will wait until next year to re-simplify its notebook lines with Intel's Haswell platform, at which point the company will merge the MacBook Pro and this new MacBook model, leaving a set of four models: 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Airs and 13-inch and 15-inch MacBooks."

Dwalls90
Jun 8, 2012, 09:04 AM
That's stupid.

If the new Macbook line is as powerful as the Pro line, WHY keep the Pro line? What advantage does the Pro offer? A CD drive? Not exactly tempting in today's day and age. I'd rather take thinner and retina over a stupid CD drive, especially since it looks like it will be priced cheaper than a pro.

Just Axe the old Pro line and rebrand the new Pro line as this thinner/Retina one.

kjs862
Jun 8, 2012, 09:04 AM
Apple does a lot of things that don't make technical sense, but they do them anyways for marketing purposes.

ouimetnick
Jun 8, 2012, 09:04 AM
Maybe it will be next year that they Merge happens. But why not simply have a 13" and 15" MacBook Pro with the retinal display, and all the goodies, (same price point) but w/o the optical drive. The only time I use my optical drive is to import CDs into iTunes (I use the AIFF setting for HQ) I can always use an external drive or another computer and then coy them over for those rare occasions. I would love a MacBook Pro to have the battery occupy the optical drive area.

keysersoze
Jun 8, 2012, 09:05 AM
We know it's a lie because the 13 MBP is listed as having dedicated nVidia graphics. Apple would NEVER do that. right? :)

roadbloc
Jun 8, 2012, 09:06 AM
Make a separate line for Retina Displays? That would be stupid.

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 09:06 AM
Doesn't Apple believe in keeping the number of choices low to avoid confusing the consumer?

This would add MORE models, which is precisely what Steve Jobs taught Apple to not do...

CausticPuppy
Jun 8, 2012, 09:07 AM
Make a separate line for Retina Displays? That would be stupid.

They're not gonna do that. Apple would become like Dell or HP-- having multiple laptop lines of the same size, each of which has multiple standard configurations, PLUS bto configurations.

At some point the Macbook Air or Macbook Pro branding would go away, replaced by just "Macbook", maybe that's possible-- but that's just a branding change. The Air would remain the consumer laptop and the pro would remain, well, the pro laptop.

andrewzz
Jun 8, 2012, 09:08 AM
Nonsense.

Mjmar
Jun 8, 2012, 09:08 AM
Nobody will buy the Air or the Pro if this "retina" notebook will come in August...

Black Belt
Jun 8, 2012, 09:08 AM
Ridiculous. And if they drop the 17 I'd be pissed.

japjoe7
Jun 8, 2012, 09:08 AM
The Macbook, if true, would be aluminum right...not plastic??

jasontll
Jun 8, 2012, 09:09 AM
This can't be true...
Thinner, MBP level processing power, and with Retina Display?????
I can't see why people would want to buy MBP anymore, so why bother having a MBP line where the new "MacBook" is better?

Skika
Jun 8, 2012, 09:09 AM
Hm maybe the difference isnt just the Optical drive, but ethernet and firewire as well...

pgifford
Jun 8, 2012, 09:09 AM
I guess that makes me part of the 1%?

KPOM
Jun 8, 2012, 09:10 AM
Perhaps what he is calling "MacBooks" are simply configuration options for the MacBook Pro (i.e. low-end configurations to maintain a price point). If any line were to be renamed simply "MacBook," it would be the MacBook Air, not the MacBook Pro.

paulyras
Jun 8, 2012, 09:10 AM
The idea of three lines is not outlandish. There was a time with a macbook, MBP, and MBA.

What is silly is the idea that one model is slimmer, retina, cheaper, and better battery life than the MBP. Essentially any two of those 2 is possible, 3 potentially, but all four is insanity.

My guess is MBP is biggest, with optical drive, retina display, longest battery life, but most expensive. I also expect a slimmer 15 and maybe 13 inch system w/o retina, cheaper, and equivalent battery life to the MBP, but without an optical drive.

The MBA remains the MBA, despite my passionate dreams of a 15 inch MBA.

My guesses, but not based on 'expert market research'.

Digital Skunk
Jun 8, 2012, 09:10 AM
No way Apple is going to have three lines of 13" machines. The Air, the AirPro, and the Pro? If the AirPro has the same power, but better internals why not just kill off the MBP and tell everyone to buy an external ODD?

And there'd better be a 17" on that list!

drewisanapple
Jun 8, 2012, 09:11 AM
Wouldn't it make sense for them to make one Pro line? And include the retina screens. It's pretty crazy to make a seperate line.

xgman
Jun 8, 2012, 09:11 AM
There sure are a lot of experts in this thread. :rolleyes:

Boe11
Jun 8, 2012, 09:11 AM
Yeah, none of this makes much sense. Guess we'll find out in a couple of days.

dlastmango
Jun 8, 2012, 09:12 AM
This can't be true...
Thinner, MBP level processing power, and with Retina Display?????
I can't see why people would want to buy MBP anymore, so why bother having a MBP line where the new "MacBook" is better?

I could see Price being a big factor to keep people interested in the non-retina machines. Or would they just make the Retina screen an option for BTO models?

kayloh20
Jun 8, 2012, 09:12 AM
I hope they do keep the 17" MBP. I found the ExpressCard slot to be very useful (unless they can at the very least make the SD card slot big enough so the card is actually flush with the notebook).

I guess if it's only 1% of sales, though, it makes sense to discontinue it unless in the end they still have no net loss.

lukemcurley
Jun 8, 2012, 09:12 AM
Could explain the renaming, and the dropping of the original MacBook line.

So we'll have:
MacBook Air
MacBook (Old Pro Line)
MacBook Pro (Retina Display)

FrizzleFryBen
Jun 8, 2012, 09:14 AM
My 13" MBA is 1440x900. At 2-2.5 feet when on my lap, I cannot discern one pixel from another. I saw a huge difference when I got my iPhone4 and the new iPad(3). I just don't see a doubling of pixels. Maybe a higher density, but doubling is just silly.

I did pay the extra for the higher density on my last 15" MBP...well worth it.

mazz0
Jun 8, 2012, 09:14 AM
Seems unlikely they'll be able to make this new one thinner than the pro, given it'll need more graphics power to run the retina display, doesn't it?

xgman
Jun 8, 2012, 09:15 AM
So are they suggesting no new imacs at wwdc based on this theory of part numbers musical chairs?

jclardy
Jun 8, 2012, 09:15 AM
Seems weird that they would have a third, middle line, that includes their highest resolution displays.

The only way I see this happening is if the MBP line moves to IPS displays and has some serious battery life, otherwise why would you go MBP? An optical drive?

Chilla
Jun 8, 2012, 09:18 AM
I could definitely see this happening. A "retina" display 15 would probably draw most of the form 17 inch users (conveniently at a similar price point as the 17) while also drawing away 15 inch MBP users who want the latest and greatest tech. Right now this type of technology would put the price at an amount that most 13 inch and 15 inch users would be hesitant about paying. They could be waiting until prices come down before doing away with the current MBP models in favor of this new model. I know I for one wouldn't pay a price hike similar to the one shown on the parts sheet, neither retina or the decrease in size would be worth it to me.

It's interesting to speculate what this means for that parts list from Wednesday. We assumed J30 and J31 were the iMacs, but based on existing australian pricing these could just as easily be the new MBPs with the D2s being the new product. I'm hesitant to believe this though because in this scenario the part numbers for the MBP would begin with MD, the same designation as the current generation part numbers. However, this could mean the MBP refresh is a minor one, since they plan to eventually integrate it with the new product line.

Laird Knox
Jun 8, 2012, 09:19 AM
If it has a retina display, I hope they man up and call it the EyeBook

I heard they were going back to their pirate days when they flew the Jolly Roger over the headquarters. The new system will be named the MacBook Arr.

KylePowers
Jun 8, 2012, 09:19 AM
Bollocks!

MBAs will stay essentially the same, just with ULV Ivy Bridge and USB 3.0. Perhaps HD FaceTime camera, if we're lucky.

MBPs, I feel at least, will drop the Superdrives, be slightly slimmer, get LV Ivy Bridge and USB 3.0, a bump in dedicated GPU, and probably have retina as a BTO option.

I don't see a third line being introduced at all. Also not too sure if the 13in MBP will get dropped or not, but hopefully not! I could see the 17in being dropped though.

Mr Rogers
Jun 8, 2012, 09:19 AM
What about the 'RETINA' iMac - I won't get out of bed until it has a RETINA display and will stay chained to my RETINA iPad for life!

till
Jun 8, 2012, 09:20 AM
Going back to having a single basic MacBook makes a lot of sense. It would be a cheaper entry-level computer for educational markets and consumers who don't need extra portability or extra performance. It's not adding clutter, it's presenting one easy choice to a large number of people.

I think it'll be just a 13" one though, not the 15".

halfasemitone
Jun 8, 2012, 09:21 AM
I can't believe this isn't a thread about the iPhone.

Mr Rogers
Jun 8, 2012, 09:23 AM
Disaster, KGI Securities prediction is only 15in Macbook pro's will be demo'ed on Monday - does this mean another 12 month wait for a Haswell updated iMac - we are now in Mac Pro territory - shame on Apple.

jll62
Jun 8, 2012, 09:23 AM
I can see these being separate SKUs in the Pro line, not a separate line. It's possible that the retina screen requires a bit more under the hood, so they can't just make the screen a BTO option like is currently done with the anti-glare screens. This is why you'd see a dedicated GPU in the 13" retina, perhaps.

RogueWarrior65
Jun 8, 2012, 09:23 AM
I've owned three 17" MBPs and I loathe the thought of having to go back to 15". That being said, if I can hook up a bigger Thunderbolt display, keyboard, & mouse and run the MBP closed, I'd consider it.

Laird Knox
Jun 8, 2012, 09:23 AM
There sure are a lot of experts in this thread. :rolleyes:

Same as any other thread here. ;)

MH01
Jun 8, 2012, 09:24 AM
Just going to be Ivy Bridge plus USB 3.

If there was a new form factor, I doubt it would have avoided leaks, as the iphone 5 parts can leaked!, and thats a much bigger secret then their computer range. The reason nothing has leaked is probably cause the cases will be the same, and probably the panels also.

If we are lucky all the screen will be capable of 1080p. Fingers crossed.

All all the talked about accessories will not doubt be USB 3 dongles for ethernet etc etc, Any expansive will probably be TB accessory! At least with USB we can get some decent speed upgrades without have to but RipOff TB stuff.

JS77
Jun 8, 2012, 09:24 AM
There sure are a lot of experts in this thread. :rolleyes:

There sure are a lot of comedians in this thread. :rolleyes:

CausticPuppy
Jun 8, 2012, 09:25 AM
The idea of three lines is not outlandish. There was a time with a macbook, MBP, and MBA.

What is silly is the idea that one model is slimmer, retina, cheaper, and better battery life than the MBP. Essentially any two of those 2 is possible, 3 potentially, but all four is insanity.

My guess is MBP is biggest, with optical drive, retina display, longest battery life, but most expensive. I also expect a slimmer 15 and maybe 13 inch system w/o retina, cheaper, and equivalent battery life to the MBP, but without an optical drive.

The MBA remains the MBA, despite my passionate dreams of a 15 inch MBA.

My guesses, but not based on 'expert market research'.

Back when the Macbook was a thing, MBP's were only available in 15" and 17" sizes. The Macbook Pro 13" replaced the 13" Macbook.

The one exception was the plastic white Macbook, which stuck around for a little while, because it was the only notebook Apple could offer at the $999 price point. The price point was the only reason for its existence. But now the 11" Air fills that spot.

olowott
Jun 8, 2012, 09:25 AM
Crazy rumours:mad: just popping in every direction!

only if today was monday:), our minds will be at peace!

Till then, Have Fun keeping us on our toes!

notjustjay
Jun 8, 2012, 09:26 AM
Looks like the MacBook Pro sticks around only to be a decoy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoy_effect) for the new model.

1reflectsathome
Jun 8, 2012, 09:26 AM
Apple believes LESS is MORE and MORE is LESS. Just seems with 2 MORE macbooks sandwiched between 2 on each side and taking something from both sides will only blur the distinctions among models that now exists. And then offering a retina display before the other 4 models have it, is ridiculous.

It's hard to believe that this will happen especially knowing it is in Apple's DNA to make products and choices as simple as possible.

MH01
Jun 8, 2012, 09:26 AM
I've owned three 17" MBPs and I loathe the thought of having to go back to 15". That being said, if I can hook up a bigger Thunderbolt display, keyboard, & mouse and run the MBP closed, I'd consider it.

You can now.

Though that's not the point of the 17 inch, I will be disappointed if they kill it, its great while on the road. Like you said going back to a 15 is going to be difficult.

dennno
Jun 8, 2012, 09:28 AM
Ethernet, Firewire and Optical are just a hindrance to product design. They really need to just go. There's new technology today that comfortably replace these.

Unfortunately not everyone is eager to change so quickly. It'll happen eventually. Maybe when something much newer replaces the new technology, then people will finally let CD's go.

All my friends use the CD-drive argument for choosing the macbook pro. When I ask them what they use the CD drive for, they go blank. It's a psychological thing.

Skika
Jun 8, 2012, 09:28 AM
Apple believes LESS is MORE and not MORE is LESS.

Wait... This doesnt make sense.

Mal67
Jun 8, 2012, 09:33 AM
I personally would like to see a 15" for the price of a 13" or just a little more expensive. It wouldn't even have to have an discrete graphics card or if it did it wouldn't have to be anything fancy. I would also hope they will give the bottom air more than a paltry 64gig ssd. So long as there is also an affordable model with the OD still in that would be cool too.

landroverz7
Jun 8, 2012, 09:36 AM
Why not drop the pro and air, have 4 laptops called MacBook 11,13,15 & 17. All of them have no DVD drive or HDD allowing for a slim design. Specs 11inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 undervolted ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 4GB+ ram. 13 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i5 quad core ivy bridge,SD card reader, ethernet port, FireWire, 128GB+ SSD & 4GB+ ram. 15 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 quad core ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 8GB+ ram. 17 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 quad core ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 8GB+ ram. Also 1080p iSight camera, Bluetooth 4.0, backlit keyboard and maybe even 802.11ac standard across range. Price $999 and up! If apple does this they can take over the world who agrees with me?

docziandras
Jun 8, 2012, 09:36 AM
I see, understand and somewhat agree with your comments guys that it's not gonna happen, but... What if the current MBP will live on as simply Macbook? I can see it happening carrying a lower price tag just as the iPhone 3GS/4 and iPad 2 live on.

Apple has also interest in MAS sales which can be boosted when more people can afford to buy a Mac.

roland.g
Jun 8, 2012, 09:36 AM
What the report fails to mention that these two new models will be unibody made from cheese, like the moon.

Yeah right, Apple is going to introduce a new line only to get rid of it in a year. That's so Apple-like.

1reflectsathome
Jun 8, 2012, 09:36 AM
Wait... This doesnt make sense.

Your right. I corrected it. Thanks

malman89
Jun 8, 2012, 09:36 AM
That's just silly.

Apple does a lot of things that don't make technical sense, but they do them anyways for marketing purposes.

This. And when it releases and is beautiful and shiny everyone doubting (except the few thousand - total - using a 17" MBP) will be giddy.

A 13" with dedicated graphics? I think the end of the world is approaching. Then again, there's been some new rebranded "dedicated" NVIDIA GPUs that are "newer" and use less power, but are worse performance-wise than their predecessors, so could be one of those.

odaiwai
Jun 8, 2012, 09:36 AM
My 13" MBA is 1440x800. At 2-2.5 feet when on my lap, I cannot discern one pixel from another.

No, it's not: it's 1440x900. That extra 100 pixels makes a big difference in usability, especially when most 15" PC laptops are 1366x768 (or the same resolution as the 11" MacBookAir).

As for whether it's a retina display, my calculations say that at 27" viewing distance, each pixel is just slightly under 1 arc minute (the theoretical threshold for Retina). The 11" at 26" is technically a Retina Display, but the same criteria.

Mr Rogers
Jun 8, 2012, 09:36 AM
Could we have some rumours about the iMac, I'm stuck in a wheelchair with mobility issues, so the last thing I want is a MBA, MBP iPad or iPhone.

Come to think of it, could Apple actually rebrand the iMac line the iPad Pro - perhaps then we'll see some bloody updates!!!!!!

weaponEX
Jun 8, 2012, 09:37 AM
The questions is:

Is this a good time to buy or not?
It seems like b*llshit is all up in the air right now. It's a well known fact that early adopters usually suffer the brunt, while the later adopter reap the benefits.

Like most people in the post, I've been sitting on my $2500 for months now waiting for them to release the wretched thing. But should I wait a little longer until Apple have finished their ludicrous machinations?

croooow
Jun 8, 2012, 09:37 AM
I hope we dont see ANOTHER line up of MacBooksor at least not a third line with another 13" notebook. I would not mind the return of a line just called "MacBook" if they drop one of the other 13" ones (which they won't, they are selling very well)

Braniff747SP
Jun 8, 2012, 09:38 AM
Same price as current MBP with a retina display? I'm in.

Mal67
Jun 8, 2012, 09:40 AM
Ethernet, Firewire and Optical are just a hindrance to product design. They really need to just go. There's new technology today that comfortably replace these.

Unfortunately not everyone is eager to change so quickly. It'll happen eventually. Maybe when something much newer replaces the new technology, then people will finally let CD's go.

All my friends use the CD-drive argument for choosing the macbook pro. When I ask them what they use the CD drive for, they go blank. It's a psychological thing.
Firewire sometimes; Optical lots; Ethernet never.

gibbo132
Jun 8, 2012, 09:40 AM
I don't think the 13" mbp will go, but I do hope that it will get a updated screen equal to the resolution of the air. I was using both today and the air was much nicer to use!
My perfect laptop would be a 13" quad core, with dedicated graphics and a small ssd for apps and os + a large hdd. I can wish cant I?

azentropy
Jun 8, 2012, 09:47 AM
Doesn't Apple believe in keeping the number of choices low to avoid confusing the consumer?

This would add MORE models, which is precisely what Steve Jobs taught Apple to not do...

That has always been a myth by most accounts. How many different iPod nano and shuffle color and memory choices are there? (14 nano and 5 shuffle) How many different iPad configurations are there (18 not including the iPad 2)?

paradox00
Jun 8, 2012, 09:47 AM
His claims aren't as crazy as they seem at first glance, they kept the 13" white macbook as a legacy model for quite some time, even gave it a "unibody" redesign. If Apple is branching into three lines, that's exactly what the Pro would be. A legacy model. Something Apple continues to sell, but not heavily advertised or discussed, and silently updated.

Right now Apple is selling "The new iPad" and the "iPad 2". I could see Apple releasing "The new Macbook" and keeping the "Macbook Pro" around until it stops selling well. I doubt any Macbook Pro updates would get much or any airtime at WWDC in this scenario though.

Dangerous Theory
Jun 8, 2012, 09:48 AM
No, it's not: it's 1440x900. That extra 100 pixels makes a big difference in usability, especially when most 15" PC laptops are 1366x768 (or the same resolution as the 11" MacBookAir).

As for whether it's a retina display, my calculations say that at 27" viewing distance, each pixel is just slightly under 1 arc minute (the theoretical threshold for Retina). The 11" at 26" is technically a Retina Display, but the same criteria.
I was just about to comment on it. Was anyone else expecting a 13 with a GPU? Would be awesome if true, but I doubt it...

Radio
Jun 8, 2012, 09:48 AM
Wouldn't it make more sense that the new ones would be the Pro machines and then the current 13" (and maybe the 15") MacBook Pro would just drop the Pro?

they're phasing out the Pro -

why even have a pro anymore if they carry the same specs?

pretty silly if u ask me but if u want to feel awesome u can call it that

Dangerous Theory
Jun 8, 2012, 09:49 AM
His claims aren't as crazy as they seem at first glance, they kept the 13" white macbook as a legacy model for quite some time, even gave it a "unibody" redesign. If Apple is branching into three lines, that's exactly what the Pro would be. A legacy model. Something Apple continues to sell, but not heavily advertised or discussed, and silently updated.

Right now Apple is selling "The new iPad" and the "iPad 2". I could see Apple releasing "The new Macbook" and keeping the "Macbook Pro" around until it stops selling well.

I don't know...I mean, they can't go around just slapping "the new" as a prefix to products. It will look stupid.

notjustjay
Jun 8, 2012, 09:49 AM
Like most people in the post, I've been sitting on my $2500 for months now waiting for them to release the wretched thing. But should I wait a little longer until Apple have finished their ludicrous machinations?

Well, you'll find out in 4 days I suppose!

Chupa Chupa
Jun 8, 2012, 09:49 AM
If true then the MBP will become the iPod Classic of Macs -- sold as long as they sell but a red-headed stepchild to the R&D dept. Fine w/ me as long as whatever suceeds it is equivalent from a proc and graphics perspective. I see the new 15" so-called MB will offer NVidia graphics so that's the right direction. I'm loath to see everything w/o Intel graphics. Bleech.

conorm19147
Jun 8, 2012, 09:49 AM
seems like kind of a silly move on apple's part. The only visible differences are:
-form factor
-integrated graphics rather than independent (in the 13")
-no optical drive
-retina display
I plan on replacing my 13" 2008 MacBook in the next week, and I'm torn here. I'd like to buy this new product in the 13" but my concern is memory, I would like this to have at least 4Gb built in (I assume it will) expandable to 16Gb to match the MacBook Pro's capabilities. however if this does happen there will be nearly no reason (rather than the optical drive) to buy the MBP at this point. Additionally, there are now rumors that they will merge these two lines NEXT YEAR, why not just take the MBP make it slimmer and take out the optical drive and stick in a retina display. This just seems like such a non-Apple thing for Apple to do.

dokujaryu
Jun 8, 2012, 09:49 AM
I always felt that MacBook Pro didn't sound right. I much preferred PowerBook.

In any case, I don't see Apple making a new product line and keeping the Pro. Could happen, but, seems unlikely to me for some reason.

longofest
Jun 8, 2012, 09:51 AM
I seem to remember me thinking along the same lines (#3 in the poll) (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1322746&highlight=macbook+pro+hybrid)

twoodcc
Jun 8, 2012, 09:52 AM
i hope all macbooks get a retina display. all macs for that matter

nickm55
Jun 8, 2012, 09:53 AM
This kind of makes sense, they might introduce a mid range more portable laptop with better battery, pro power and less weight. I for one would prefer pro power minus the drive.

sweetbrat
Jun 8, 2012, 09:53 AM
Why not drop the pro and air, have 4 laptops called MacBook 11,13,15 & 17. All of them have no DVD drive or HDD allowing for a slim design. Specs 11inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 undervolted ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 4GB+ ram. 13 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i5 quad core ivy bridge,SD card reader, ethernet port, FireWire, 128GB+ SSD & 4GB+ ram. 15 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 quad core ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 8GB+ ram. 17 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 quad core ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 8GB+ ram. Also 1080p iSight camera, Bluetooth 4.0, backlit keyboard and maybe even 802.11ac standard across range. Price $999 and up! If apple does this they can take over the world who agrees with me?

I don't agree. If you completely take away the HDD, you lose a lot of people. SSDs have come down in price quite a bit, but they're still prohibitively expensive in the sizes that a lot of people need. And with protable computers, people don't want to have to carry around external drives. If you go to a slimmer model, is the RAM still user upgradable? If not, you lose a bunch more people because a huge number of people nowdays need more than 4GB of RAM, and paying Apple for it costs a fortune.

myrtlebee
Jun 8, 2012, 09:53 AM
I always thought it would make the most sense to shift to having only an 11" Air, 13" MacBook (Air-Pro hybrid of sorts), and a 15" MacBook Pro. Streamline the offerings.

pacalis
Jun 8, 2012, 09:53 AM
Hm maybe the difference isnt just the Optical drive, but ethernet and firewire as well...

THis gets my vote. Some people are really passionate about having these inside their pro and it might make short term business sense for Apple (i.e margins are so good they'll trade off customer confusion).

IF this is true, this might be the difference between Jobs and Cook - Jobs would kill a dying line vs. milking it until it is full cannibalized. Though again, in the last year Apple has been selling old lines beside new in their ipods, phones and tablets.

moderniste
Jun 8, 2012, 09:54 AM
I think the 'third line' would be something like those leaked MBP specs, a lower priced alternative to the retina models, using the same form factor as now and a few modest improvements. Especially if they are phasing out the 13"MBP, it would make sense to give it a final run as an alternative for people who aren't ready to make the switch to 15" or an Air just yet. It would cut down on people's whining about the price hike and pave the way for a simpler line-up next year.

weaponEX
Jun 8, 2012, 09:54 AM
99% of the articles on MacRumors are wrong or speculation or conjecture. But they keep me coming back!

paradox00
Jun 8, 2012, 09:55 AM
That has always been a myth by most accounts. How many different iPod nano and shuffle color and memory choices are there? (14 nano and 5 shuffle) How many different iPad configurations are there (18 not including the iPad 2)?

I'd say they like to keep the choices simple. How much storage space and what colour are simple choices, even if there are many of them. I do think their iPad choices may be overwhelming to some though.

lannisters4life
Jun 8, 2012, 09:56 AM
Pretty anti-Steve thing to do. Bit of a marketing headache.

Drew n macs
Jun 8, 2012, 09:59 AM
We will know for sure in a couple days but if they do drop the 17 inch mbp, I dont see the logic in keeping the 13 mbp even though its sales are good but so was the white 13 macbook but they drop that because there was only minimal diffrence between mb and mbp. I cant see why someone would want a 13 mbp over the 13 coming out.

ladeer
Jun 8, 2012, 09:59 AM
Maybe the difference is in price.
The MBHDhas similar power as MBP but 1. Thinner and 2. Cost $500 more

We will see if he is right soon

ixodes
Jun 8, 2012, 10:00 AM
The iToyz lovers are going to be unhappy. They hate choices, it confuses them.

Choices is not what the new mass market focused Apple is all about.

Someone at the top needs to decide what it's going to be.

Choices or no choices :eek:

paradox00
Jun 8, 2012, 10:00 AM
I don't know...I mean, they can't go around just slapping "the new" as a prefix to products. It will look stupid.

Doesn't mean they won't do it.

Bubba Satori
Jun 8, 2012, 10:00 AM
Pretty anti-Steve thing to do. Bit of a marketing headache.

Steve is dead. Time to move on.

vikpt
Jun 8, 2012, 10:02 AM
Doesn't make sense. Just release thinner, retina-displays 13, 15 and 17 in. Macbook Pro's this coming Monday please Apple! (with same price) lol

roland.g
Jun 8, 2012, 10:03 AM
I don't know...I mean, they can't go around just slapping "the new" as a prefix to products. It will look stupid.

That begs the question of refurbs and selling on eBay.

For Sale: a used new iPad.

"What did you end up getting?"
"Oh I waited and got a refurbished new MacBook."

"Welcome to WWDC 2013, today we've got some great products to announce, for starters there is the new new MacBook, which we will be calling the new² MacBook, just like our recently released new² iPad."

robeddie
Jun 8, 2012, 10:06 AM
We know it's a lie because the 13 MBP is listed as having dedicated nVidia graphics. Apple would NEVER do that. right? :)

In the diagram it's listed as an 'intel integrated graphics'. Not sure where you seem them saying the 13" would have a discrete chip.

paradox00
Jun 8, 2012, 10:07 AM
That begs the question of refurbs and selling on eBay.

For Sale: a used new iPad.

"What did you end up getting?"
"Oh I waited and got a refurbished new MacBook."

"Welcome to WWDC 2013, today we've got some great products to announce, for starters there is the new new MacBook, which we will be calling the new² MacBook, just like our recently released new² iPad."

I know you're just being funny, but past models will simply be referred to by their model year or generation number, for example: "iPad (2012)" or "iPad (third generation)". The new iPad will always be the newest iPad.

Amethyst
Jun 8, 2012, 10:09 AM
It's seem reasonable.

11 MBA = $999
13 MBA = $1299

13 MBP = $1199
15 MBP = $1799

15 MBX = $2499
15 MBX = $3199

Sgt. ButtKiss
Jun 8, 2012, 10:09 AM
D10 with Phil Schiller please

robeddie
Jun 8, 2012, 10:09 AM
Nobody will buy the Air or the Pro if this "retina" notebook will come in August...

I might.

Frankly, it's not like I look at my 11" air and think 'man these graphics are jaggy'.

Maybe it's cause I'm 50 and my vision isn't perfect, but unless I get my face a foot away from the screen, the resolution seems just fine to me.

2bikes
Jun 8, 2012, 10:10 AM
This has been one of the `double dipped` secure WWDC for a while. It is one business day before the WWDC, and we still don`t have a lot of solid information. We knew more about what would be unveiled several days before the conference last several years.

ericrwalker
Jun 8, 2012, 10:10 AM
I am really hoping for a 13'' model with a dedicated GPU. It's the main reason I haven't bought a Apple notebook model yet, larger than 13" too big for me.

Warbrain
Jun 8, 2012, 10:11 AM
Grasping at straws, people, grasping at straws.

But, you want to know how this is ****? "Apple reluctance to discontinue the 13" model..."

Well, they killed the 12" PowerBook that everyone loved and people whined for a long time. It was popular. Apple doesn't give a damn about popular. Apple gives a damn about making the next best thing.

roland.g
Jun 8, 2012, 10:14 AM
I know you're just being funny, but past models will simply be referred to by their model year or generation number, for example: "iPad (2012)" or "iPad (third generation)". The new iPad will always be the newest iPad.

Of course I'm just being funny. For one I don't believe that they will introduce a third product line for 1 year. Second, what else do I have to do until Monday. I'm just waiting for the real news like everyone else. Instead of this - honestly - page 3 nonsense.

Chilla
Jun 8, 2012, 10:14 AM
It's seem reasonable.

11 MBA = $999
13 MBA = $1299

13 MBP = $1199
15 MBP = $1799

15 MBX = $2499
15 MBX = $3199

I agree, but I think the MBX price will be lower. The 2,499/3,199 from the parts list were Australian prices, so the US prices would be lower, probably more like 2,099 and 2,799.

Rizzn
Jun 8, 2012, 10:14 AM
In the diagram it's listed as an 'intel integrated graphics'. Not sure where you seem them saying the 13" would have a discrete chip.

According to the diagram the new 13" MBP will have dedicated graphics.

mabaker
Jun 8, 2012, 10:15 AM
Anal-ysts like that know NOTHING of Apple.

Rocketman
Jun 8, 2012, 10:15 AM
I hope this rumor is true because it makes sense and would be my choice. Look how long Apple has been working on high/variable resolution as a feature. A decade or so. We may finally see it ship.

Maybe we will see 17" go BTO only? MacMall and other dealers sell preconfigured BTO Macs at retail.

Rocketman

vincebio
Jun 8, 2012, 10:18 AM
i stopped reading after the 3rd word...which was Analyst.

Move along...

These clowns like getting on front pages but they are full of dung.

betoranaldi
Jun 8, 2012, 10:26 AM
What the report fails to mention that these two new models will be unibody made from cheese, like the moon.

Then after running it for 20 minutes you can break out the bread and have your very own fondue.

toshmac
Jun 8, 2012, 10:26 AM
there would have to be more of a difference between the macbook and macbook pro lines if this were true

ristlin
Jun 8, 2012, 10:27 AM
So you telling me that after Apple took a step forward by removing the Macbook line, they are going take a step back and do this?

I doubt it. The retina has to be part of the other laptops.

dlewis23
Jun 8, 2012, 10:28 AM
So theres gonna be a Macbook with a higher res screen then the Macbook Pro?

Yea right.... I needed a laugh this morning.

Quadra610
Jun 8, 2012, 10:32 AM
Oh no! It's the Performa 6360/Power Mac 6300/160 all over again!

macducky
Jun 8, 2012, 10:39 AM
This can't be true...
Thinner, MBP level processing power, and with Retina Display?????
I can't see why people would want to buy MBP anymore, so why bother having a MBP line where the new "MacBook" is better?

The only Macbook Pro (thick) to keep should be the 13" with ODD and low price point for school use!! (MS/HS/BS)

ALL others should be going thin, retina, and SSD!!!! (11/13/15) :cool:

keysersoze
Jun 8, 2012, 10:40 AM
In the diagram it's listed as an 'intel integrated graphics'. Not sure where you seem them saying the 13" would have a discrete chip.

Um. Right there. Outlined in red for you. The 13 MBP. As I stated in my post.

Torrijos
Jun 8, 2012, 10:42 AM
i stopped reading after the 3rd word...which was Analyst.
Move along...
These clowns like getting on front pages but they are full of dung.

Yep.

One more reason to doubt this is that Apple resurgence in the Jobs era was due to a concentration of the model lines not an explosion of the offering, and I doubt that now that the iPhone, iPad and iPod make more than 70% of Apple's revenue (god knows what % of the profits) they'll overly invest in computers and inflate the range of models.

While rumors of a mini-iPad make some sense (cheaper, old-resolution so no dev work needed, more suitable to youngsters), I don't know how many MacBook range can coexist.

For years Apple has being offering great laptop computers selling tons of them, but still never got a huge increase in computer shares. To this day competitors haven't managed to release a true competitor to the MB Air but people believe their are too expensive (where are the cheaper equivalent PC models?).
Apple tried the small mac with the mini, and it wasn't a huge success, they tried servers that tanked (their own fault for not investing in building real customer support).

If recent news is any indication most huge US PC makers are leaving the market to concentrate on server-mainframe-businesses, while Apple rakes a majority of the device market. The MacBook and iMac range seem safe in Apple's future, mini & Mac Pro not so much.

I for one will be happy once the ultrabook transition is over with the air range covering 11" to 13" (integrated graphics only) and the MB Pro at 15" (discreet GPU).

gpat
Jun 8, 2012, 10:50 AM
Maybe the 17" Pro would make more than 1% of sales if it had a logical pricing.

BornAgainMac
Jun 8, 2012, 10:53 AM
MacBook with DVD drive and a thinner one with better display, better battery, lighter one without. After 1 year, see how many buy the DVD model.

baryon
Jun 8, 2012, 10:54 AM
This can't be true...
Thinner, MBP level processing power, and with Retina Display?????
I can't see why people would want to buy MBP anymore, so why bother having a MBP line where the new "MacBook" is better?

But maybe the new MacBook would be much more expensive, then there might be a point… Though I doubt Apple would introduce an even more expensive computer than the MacBook Pro.

I don't like the idea of this new MacBook being a separate product, I'd rather have it be the MacBook Pro indeed.

daneoni
Jun 8, 2012, 11:00 AM
Sounds convoluted and confusing...which means Apple won't do it.

thekev
Jun 8, 2012, 11:04 AM
I don't agree. If you completely take away the HDD, you lose a lot of people. SSDs have come down in price quite a bit, but they're still prohibitively expensive in the sizes that a lot of people need. And with protable computers, people don't want to have to carry around external drives. If you go to a slimmer model, is the RAM still user upgradable? If not, you lose a bunch more people because a huge number of people nowdays need more than 4GB of RAM, and paying Apple for it costs a fortune.

You know the chipset used in the Air actually supports 8. Apple chose to cap it out at 4. There could be many reasons for this including cost, power consumption, and board design. While I think it's a cool machine, the compromises are pretty heavy just to drop a small amount of weight. It would make more sense for me if I was traveling constantly and needed to keep carry-on within luggage limits.


The iToyz lovers are going to be unhappy. They hate choices, it confuses them.

Choices is not what the new mass market focused Apple is all about.

Someone at the top needs to decide what it's going to be.

Choices or no choices :eek:

Apple likes things that sell in large numbers. If you need anything that goes against their design theory, it's always a leveraging game of what could work rather than doing things however you might like.



For years Apple has being offering great laptop computers selling tons of them, but still never got a huge increase in computer shares. To this day competitors haven't managed to release a true competitor to the MB Air but people believe their are too expensive (where are the cheaper equivalent PC models?).
Apple tried the small mac with the mini, and it wasn't a huge success, they tried servers that tanked (their own fault for not investing in building real customer support).

You have to understand the problem with the mini. Aside from some specific uses, it easily falls short as a value proposition. You may have to factor in a keyboard and mouse unless they're left over from an older purchase and still fully functional. You have to budget for a display which means either a separate vendor or a $1000 minimum sale. It also uses 2.5" drives which tend to be a little slower unless you're going with an SSD. The point is that upgrades can add up quickly. If you do anything where the gpu is a concern, you must buy a slightly upgraded model. Of course it's still starved on vram. At some point it becomes easier just to buy the base imac or a refurb given some of the small limitations that can lead you toward expensive upgrades.



If recent news is any indication most huge US PC makers are leaving the market to concentrate on server-mainframe-businesses, while Apple rakes a majority of the device market. The MacBook and iMac range seem safe in Apple's future, mini & Mac Pro not so much.

I for one will be happy once the ultrabook transition is over with the air range covering 11" to 13" (integrated graphics only) and the MB Pro at 15" (discreet GPU).

Don't believe everything you read. Regarding US manufacturers they're facing competition there too from ODPs, but overall selling big iron carries much higher margins. Many of the consumer models have been bid down to a level where margins are quite thin. Also regarding the percentage of revenue that is attributed to the Mac line, they're only looking at direct gains there. Macs are used for for development both by Apple and third parties, so they are needed to properly support IOS. Porting such tools to another platform would be incredibly costly, especially when the Mac line remains profitable. It's not like its profits shrunk. It has merely been outpaced by the idevices.

chanyitian
Jun 8, 2012, 11:10 AM
Oh God please dont release the Macbook 13 inch in August. I want it in JUNE or early JULY.

d0vr
Jun 8, 2012, 11:12 AM
So it makes sense that they would give the macbook, which I would assume is to be used by non professionals, the retina display, and to then leave it out of the Pro focused device with a dedicated graphics card, in what universe exactly?

I'm thinking this isn't quite accurate...

Cloudsurfer
Jun 8, 2012, 11:17 AM
If the rumors are true and the new MacBooks will not have an optical drive, then there will be little difference between 13" MBP, MBA and the new MB.

People will obviously just go with the cheapest.

I personally think Apple still needs a MB at around 800€. A sweet spot for many consumers. Maybe this MB will do the trick?

GREEN4U
Jun 8, 2012, 11:22 AM
This reminds me of when they shafted 2008 Macbook owners by re-branding it Macbook Pro. :mad:

TopToffee
Jun 8, 2012, 11:29 AM
I REALLY hope this isn't true, as it appears to imply that the iMacs won't be updated... And that would make me VERY sad.

Icaras
Jun 8, 2012, 11:35 AM
Kuo believes that Apple will wait until next year to re-simplify its notebook lines with Intel's Haswell platform, at which point the company will merge the MacBook Pro and this new MacBook model, leaving a set of four models: 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Airs and 13-inch and 15-inch MacBooks.


I was actually thinking along the same lines as this. 17" MBP gone. Airs and Pros merged to be simply the "Macbook" line. Though I'm not sure what to think of the 13" MBP. It may not be this year, but I'm willing to bet a simplified restructuring of the Mac family is in Apple's cards down the road.

ressac
Jun 8, 2012, 11:46 AM
i personally think apple still needs a mb at around 800€.

+1

50548
Jun 8, 2012, 11:47 AM
That's just silly.

In other words, absolute BS by yet another Asian news site - the lineup will be as I've predicted in another thread:

- MBA 11" with retina;
- end of the 17";
- merging of the MBA and MBP 13" - resulting in a thinner 13" MBP without optical;
- updated MBP 15" with optical drive.

In conclusion: LESS, NOT MORE in a lineup is Cook's motto - cost-saving measures and factory consolidation are king.

Nocky24
Jun 8, 2012, 12:07 PM
If they're now going to unify the line why not do away with the 'pro', 'air' suffixes and just call it the NEW MacBooks :)

Yeti89
Jun 8, 2012, 12:10 PM
It doesn't make sence that the current 13in Air has a better display than the 13in Pro. It's been that way for a long time and apple hasn't felt the need to change it. So... I could see them doing this with retina displays

Spadoinkles
Jun 8, 2012, 12:22 PM
After reading this and seeing first-hand the latest HP workstations hands-on at the Adobe Roadshow yesterday, I can proudly say I am one step closer to making my departure from Apple. For now, at least.

----------

It doesn't make sence that the current 13in Air has a better display than the 13in Pro. It's been that way for a long time and apple hasn't felt the need to change it. So... I could see them doing this with retina displays


The Air display is NOT better! Resolution isn't even half the story.

tehn00p
Jun 8, 2012, 12:26 PM
Sounds like another round of what I like to call "Analyst ******** Bingo".

7enderbender
Jun 8, 2012, 12:37 PM
Doesn't Apple believe in keeping the number of choices low to avoid confusing the consumer?

This would add MORE models, which is precisely what Steve Jobs taught Apple to not do...

...and is what keeps WIN PC users still away. I in fact do want more choices that make sense. Higher resoultion (=more real estate), dual drives, more ports - and I'm in.

----------

After reading this and seeing first-hand the latest HP workstations hands-on at the Adobe Roadshow yesterday, I can proudly say I am one step closer to making my departure from Apple. For now, at least.

----------




The Air display is NOT better! Resolution isn't even half the story.

Interesting to hear. To me, yet again, it looks like I'm not moving to Apple. As appalling as Win 8 looks, there is still Win 7. And the lack of choices for pro level photo editing and audio recording in Macs are still the same problem they were a few years ago when I looked. It's really too bad that this is all dominated now by consumer level and design appeal and some almost religious approach to some Steve Jobs dogma of reduction. Yes, this makes it a very successful company and they do create beautiful design. But specs-wise it's pretty bad for those people who were originally the main target group. I can't have a shiny low real estate screen. And I need more space and firewire.

Yeti89
Jun 8, 2012, 12:40 PM
After reading this and seeing first-hand the latest HP workstations hands-on at the Adobe Roadshow yesterday, I can proudly say I am one step closer to making my departure from Apple. For now, at least.

----------




The Air display is NOT better! Resolution isn't even half the story.

You're right. But that is still the case with the new retina displays. As far as I understand they can't display as many colors and are limited by other factors as well. Which is a big deal for me being a design student. So, how much weight to we place on resolution.

Blu-Ray
Jun 8, 2012, 12:42 PM
When I first saw this, I immediately thought "NO WAY" this is going to happen. After reading this take on it (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/08/inside_apples_rumored_new_macbook_vs_updated_macbook_pro.html), I'm leaning toward this being a likely approah.

We'll see in a few days.

rtdunham
Jun 8, 2012, 12:45 PM
… should I wait a little longer until Apple have finished their ludicrous machinations?

Seems like you're reacting awfully strongly to what are simply rumors. Wait til Monday…

vmachiel
Jun 8, 2012, 12:46 PM
Just a few more days and the silly rumors will stop

AustinIllini
Jun 8, 2012, 12:47 PM
When I first saw this, I immediately thought "NO WAY" this is going to happen. After reading this take on it (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/08/inside_apples_rumored_new_macbook_vs_updated_macbook_pro.html), I'm leaning toward this being a likely approah.

We'll see in a few days.

This makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for posting!

Mal
Jun 8, 2012, 12:48 PM
Firewire sometimes; Optical lots; Ethernet never.

All three could be removed if there were easy ways to use them when needed. FireWire could be dropped from most of the lineup if there was a Thunderbolt-FireWire adaptor that was cheap enough to be reasonable (it's mostly used by audio/video pros now anyways) and especially if USB 3.0 is added, which is expected. Optical can be dropped anyday, and an external optical drive is almost always better anyways, in addition to being easier and cheaper to replace when it fails. Ethernet I can see the greatest resistance to, and it might have to stay for now (perhaps with some sort of swinging port design to save space?), but even it could be dropped if there was again a Thunderbolt-Ethernet adaptor available or included.

EDIT: Heh, just noticed how close your username is to mine.

jW

arctic
Jun 8, 2012, 12:49 PM
I don't know. Ming-Chi Kuo has always been accurate with his predictions no matter how we readers would cry foul in the past. So I'm gonna expect this at WWDC.

Although I'm skeptical that this thinner 15" is gonna come with a discrete GPU due to thermal constraints in a thin enclosure. But who knows. If Asus can pull a rabbit out of a hat by releasing their 9mm netbook Zenbook Prime with an NVIDIA 620M for a 13", Apple can probably give us a cooler machine in a 15". But the reason that this will only be called a Macbook suggests this will be below the performance of the Pro. Nevertheless, if this machine will come to fruition with or without a discrete GPU, and with the pricepoint of the current 15", I'll be surprised if a lot of us won't be tempted. Can't wait for Monday to come.

miniroll32
Jun 8, 2012, 01:03 PM
Not gonna' happen. Should the entire notebook product line be revised at WWDC, then there's obviously a collective reason why they're doing so, and that could culminate for at least two things; Retina displays on some models, and rebranding of existing models.

MBA's become just MB's (11" and 13"), and MBP's are cut down to just 13" and 15" models.

SockRolid
Jun 8, 2012, 01:07 PM
[...] the company will merge the MacBook Pro and this new MacBook model, leaving a set of four models: 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Airs and 13-inch and 15-inch MacBooks. [...]

Doesn't it feel more natural (and more in line with history) to just re-name the MacBook Air line to "MacBook"? Apple could do that and go back to their traditional consumer / pro notebook line naming scheme.

But creating a different line of notebooks with Retina-resolution screens would be silly IMHO. I'd say it makes more sense to either equip all Apple notebooks with Retina displays or offer Retina displays as a build-to-order option.

Piggie
Jun 8, 2012, 01:07 PM
One thing puzzles me.

What has Apple always, and I mean ALWAYS been bad at, and lagged behind the PC on?

Yes. that's right Graphics power. Even now the very tippy top iMac's are STILL using laptop chipsets, let alone what the low end Apple laptops use.

Putting in a screen (lets say 4x the number of pixels) is going to kill this performance even more.

I love the idea on a machine that has the power to throw the pixel around, but come on. They really need to up the power of their chipsets.

pacalis
Jun 8, 2012, 01:08 PM
When I first saw this, I immediately thought "NO WAY" this is going to happen. After reading this take on it (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/08/inside_apples_rumored_new_macbook_vs_updated_macbook_pro.html), I'm leaning toward this being a likely approah.

We'll see in a few days.

If that's the Macbook 15" - with a 2880x1800 display, I'm switching to Mac and buying it in a second.

PVisitors
Jun 8, 2012, 01:13 PM
The annoying thing about this rumour if it is true will be the limbo I will be in over the 13".

Waiting 2 months for a laptop which may or may not even exist. Not cool.

iDemiurge
Jun 8, 2012, 01:19 PM
This reminds me of when they shafted 2008 Macbook owners by re-branding it Macbook Pro. :mad:

shafted?

GREEN4U
Jun 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
FYI, here is an article that explains the potential updates much more clearer:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/08/inside_apples_rumored_new_macbook_vs_updated_macbook_pro.html

If this is true, I will definitely be picking up a new 15" Macbook in June. :D

codo
Jun 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
I'll buy one, 15" model please.

Blu-Ray
Jun 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
If that's the Macbook 15" - with a 2880x1800 display, I'm switching to Mac and buying it in a second.

If it is true, it will be available for $2,499 AUS (so maybe $2,199 US).

GorgonPhone
Jun 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
MBP is a brand.. apple would be silly to get rid of it and to get rid of the most affordable version the 13". apple apple need to do is offer a non glare and retina option on all MBPs

vpro
Jun 8, 2012, 01:23 PM
Hi everyone I'm new here with posting but not new to the rumors.

The more I visit the more I realize these rumors are like cracking open a fortune cookie after a good meal - the fortunes always spin my head and make absolutely NO SENSE what so ever and purely filler.

I have to get the latest MBP 17" before they become extinct!

I'm still a proud user of the 2008 MBP 17" still, it has been an incredible powerhouse machine for all my needs. As a musician it is so helpful, so helpful in fact because while everyone is complacent with the notion that the optical drive is now 'so blah', it has been a musicians best tool to push out independent CDs to sell at functions, to donate to charity auctions and to gift family on Xmas, etc etc etc. The MBP 17" made me feel powerful and a great sense of independence, I love that it is a magnificent self-contained unit. Just the perfect amount of viewing area, power and mobility for the kind of 'pro' use I need.

I wouldn't mind a MBA style 17" machine from Santa baby... Affordability is the most important factor for me being an independent musician who loves using over-sized 'mobile' machines, because I do everything on them, watch movies, business, produce albums, promote online, collaborate online, etc etc. I think the MBP 17" is the PERFECT marriage of everything in a laptop really.

I'm not a trend follower but an innovator in my field of World Music; so I really make GOOD use of the technology available to me WITHOUT needing to follow the herd of hipsters. The MBP 17" I have really - really pays for itself with each album I release, at least 200x's over in fact!

APPLE is an awesome marketing guru, they really got everyone buying into their 'little' teasers. I don't see off the wall - crazy amazing updates, I see just enough updates which they chose to tease their hip / rich consumers with a HUGE wow / woah factor! I'm not sold on any of their marketing or taunts, that is why I only own one product by APPLE that is my MBP 17" machine still solid and amazing since 2008. I can wait another 8 years when maybe perhaps something truly WOW is unleashed because the improvements currently are so minuscule, they keep holding back, they have the means and the technology but they keep the hipsters entertained. I guess that is big techno business.

I'm still not buying and I'm happy to be the 1%. This business / marketing is not geared to please individuals like me I know and I am okay with that. I'm loyal to my MBP 17" because it is an incredible work of art! Everything else is a gimmick to me.

Great forum thanks,

V.

Val-kyrie
Jun 8, 2012, 01:27 PM
I hope we dont see ANOTHER line up of MacBooks.

I'd rather they consolidate it more.

The difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro is now very minor. Just have a MacBook line that is the thickness of the Air, and then offer a wide range of performance options (e.g still have a 11" at 1.6ghz, but also have a 15" with an i7.

It just seems to be silly to me to have such a wide range when they could just have a single lineup of laptops that are as thick as the air (or slightly thicker).

Not silly--a logical transition which provides people with a chance to shift mindsets from optical media to digital. Also, the hi-res panels may not be overly abundant and Apple may need time to work out some bugs both in the design and in the components, i.e., the hi-res panels.

marcusj0015
Jun 8, 2012, 01:32 PM
Image (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/08/apple-to-introduce-third-macbook-line-with-retina-display-at-wwdc/)


KGI Securities analyst Ming-Chi Kuo today issued a new report outlining his belief that Apple's thinner, Retina-equipped Mac notebook will arrive next week as a new model, referring to the machine simply as a "MacBook". Kuo believes that this MacBook will be offered alongside upgraded versions of the existing 13-inch and 15-inch MacBook Pro models, with Apple being reluctant to do away with the current 13-inch design in particular due to its massive popularity.Kuo also reiterates his earlier claims that Apple will discontinue the 17-inch MacBook Pro (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/23/apple-predicted-to-discontinue-17-inch-macbook-pro/) this year, citing estimates that the model makes up only 1% of Apple's notebook sales.

The introduction of this new "MacBook" model would leave Apple with a lineup of six notebooks, although Kuo predicts that issues with display yield and heat dissipation will push the release of the 13-inch MacBook back until August, leaving only the 15-inch model to make its debut next week.

Image (http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/kuo_2012_notebook_lineup.jpg)


Mention of an independent graphics chip on 13" MacBook Pro is an error - should be integrated graphics
We should note that this configuration of models is not accounted for in our speculation on part numbers (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/06/alleged-new-part-numbers-suggest-over-a-dozen-new-mac-models-coming-at-wwdc/) that leaked earlier this week, but we did receive an unconfirmed tip of a different configuration that would match up with Kuo's claims fairly closely. In that scenario, new iMacs are not accounted for in the list and the J30/J31 model numbers represent updated 13-inch and 15-inch MacBook Pro models while the D2 model represents this new Retina-equipped 15-inch MacBook.

Kuo believes that Apple will wait until next year to re-simplify its notebook lines with Intel's Haswell platform, at which point the company will merge the MacBook Pro and this new MacBook model, leaving a set of four models: 11-inch and 13-inch MacBook Airs and 13-inch and 15-inch MacBooks.

We do find Kuo's claims to be somewhat difficult to believe, as we fail to see how this new "MacBook" model is substantially different in performance from the MacBook Pro and thus do not see why users would be interested in a non-Retina MacBook Pro given the existence of this new MacBook line. Given the scenario outlined by Kuo, the only "advantage" of the thicker MacBook Pro would be an included optical drive, but users are finding such a feature to be increasingly unnecessary and easily replaceable by digital downloads such as through the Mac App Store, direct file transfers, and cloud-based storage, with an external optical drive available to be connected only on the rare occasions when necessary.

Still, Kuo has offered accurate information on Apple's notebook plans in the past, being the first to outlined the MacBook Air redesign that included the new 11-inch model, and thus we feel that his claims are worth some consideration and discussion.

Article Link: Apple to Introduce Third MacBook Line with Retina Display at WWDC? (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/08/apple-to-introduce-third-macbook-line-with-retina-display-at-wwdc/)

Shouldn't "Retinal display with tapered edge, larger battery capacity" be "Retina display with tapered edge, larger battery capacity"

Sacird
Jun 8, 2012, 01:33 PM
Why exactly are we whining about choice again??? They will sell all three lines I guarantee it if they offer another line.

Some people literally just want the air and thats it. Disgusting.

I thumbed myself down cause it means nothing anyway.

Yebubbleman
Jun 8, 2012, 01:34 PM
While I can believe that Apple is making a 15" MacBook Air and see tons of merit to the existence of such a machine, I do not see the merit of more than that or a whole line of hybrids. That's just needless and last I checked, Apple isn't all about needless.

marcusj0015
Jun 8, 2012, 01:35 PM
Why exactly are we whining about choice again??? They will sell all three lines I guarantee it if they offer another line.

Some people literally just want the air and thats it. Disgusting.

I thumbed myself down cause it means nothing anyway.

And I upvoted you, just because. problem? :D

Sacird
Jun 8, 2012, 01:39 PM
And I upvoted you, just because. problem? :D

Damn u. :p

I'll down vote this one again. Thanks for the other down votes, see how it makes the post go away. : )

Should be

Macbook Air 11,13,15

Macbook 13,15,17 mid range GPU's, decent specs

MBP 13,15,17 High end GPU's, high end specs retina etc...

pacalis
Jun 8, 2012, 01:42 PM
If it is true, it will be available for $2,499 AUS (so maybe $2,199 US).

The pricing data on the link you provided estimates $1799.

Otherwise their charging $400 more for the retina screen, but less ports and no dvd. I don't see it. Most laptop providers charge $50-$100 to upgrade a screen. Even by apple standards for a retina, $400 over the pro seems nuts.

It could be the 1999 and 2499 on the aus list, but 2499 and 3199 for a 15" seems too much of a stretch.

Blu-Ray
Jun 8, 2012, 01:55 PM
The pricing data on the link you provided estimates $1799.

Otherwise their charging $400 more for the retina screen, but less ports and no dvd. I don't see it. Most laptop providers charge $50-$100 to upgrade a screen. Even by apple standards for a retina, $400 over the pro seems nuts.

It could be the 1999 and 2499 on the aus list, but 2499 and 3199 for a 15" seems too much of a stretch.

This would be more than just a screen upgrade though - a brand new thinner and lighter form factor + retina may justify $400 premium (and maybe SSD standard and/or more RAM).

cybercider
Jun 8, 2012, 01:58 PM
Ok, my bet:

- a new macbook 13'' "educational", price 999 $ (no retina)

- no more macbook pro 13"/17"

- macbook air 15"

StUPoT
Jun 8, 2012, 02:12 PM
If this is true then I cant imagine this new lineup having a retina display...
The display has got to be the main thing to offer on the new pro lineup over and above the rest

george-brooks
Jun 8, 2012, 02:13 PM
well this is stupid, why would they make the BETTER computer the MacBook and the older model the MacBook pro if the "pro" comes in the same sizes with no retina display?

mrxak
Jun 8, 2012, 02:18 PM
Apple learned their lesson with the MacBook, killing it off to stop the cannibalized sales between the three lines. I really doubt they'd add a new line back in again unless it was really differentiated.

pacalis
Jun 8, 2012, 02:21 PM
This would be more than just a screen upgrade though - a brand new thinner and lighter form factor + retina may justify $400 premium (and maybe SSD standard and/or more RAM).

Don't forget the $2499 AUS is for the base. A 13" base air is $1299. So you're looking at a base difference of $900 to go up to a larger 15". Add a generous better chip, better graphics, yours still at a premium of $400 for the display.

Also look at the ipad - the retina display barely commands a premium.

But to be clear, I'm not arguing that this is competing with the MBA or the ipad. It think it will be competing with the Pro - which is why I think the numbers of $1799 look right. While I value a retina display greatly, most people still buy without even looking at resolution.

truelies
Jun 8, 2012, 02:21 PM
Did they forget that Jobs said they need to focus on one product?

Blu-Ray
Jun 8, 2012, 02:26 PM
Don't forget the $2499 AUS is for the base. A 13" base air is $1299. So you're looking at a base difference of $900 to go up to a larger 15". Add a generous better chip, better graphics, yours still at a premium of $400 for the display.

Also look at the ipad - the retina display barely commands a premium.

But to be clear, I'm not arguing that this is competing with the MBA or the ipad. It think it will be competing with the Pro - which is why I think the numbers of $1799 look right. While I value a retina display greatly, most people still buy without even looking at resolution.

I think that there will be a 15" for $1799, just not the new redesigned 15" with retina. The premium cost will likely be for new form factor + retina + more RAM + SSD standard (or larger HDD).

salmoally
Jun 8, 2012, 02:32 PM
I think that there will be a 15" for $1799, just not the new redesigned 15" with retina. The premium cost will likely be for new form factor + retina + more RAM + SSD standard (or larger HDD).

This isn't a rumor, it's ********.

Death-T
Jun 8, 2012, 02:39 PM
As silly as it might be, I'd love for them to introduce another line of Macbooks. They might essentially be the same, but you get more options and price variety from there being more choices. I remember you could buy a new Macbook for $1,000, but now that they're out of the picture all Apple laptops are $1,200+ with the exception of the Air which I would never consider buying. Is it silly from a business standpoint? Maybe, but I'm a consumer and I've got nothing to lose from this possibility.

mrsir2009
Jun 8, 2012, 02:44 PM
Doubt it. If anything Apple will be slimming down it's lineup.

laurim
Jun 8, 2012, 03:02 PM
I won't be too happy if they get rid of the 17". I use my MacBookPro on the road and don't have the luxury of hooking up an external monitor to be able to use a menu-heavy program like Motion or After Effects comfortably. If they put in a retina display to fit more on a 15" screen, everything will be so small I'll go blind.

trialcritic
Jun 8, 2012, 03:12 PM
Very unfortunate that they are killing the 17". I love mine. I understand that they are not selling enough. Oh well, I have to go to 15".

jcpb
Jun 8, 2012, 03:12 PM
As silly as it might be, I'd love for them to introduce another line of Macbooks. They might essentially be the same, but you get more options and price variety from there being more choices. I remember you could buy a new Macbook for $1,000, but now that they're out of the picture all Apple laptops are $1,200+ with the exception of the Air which I would never consider buying. Is it silly from a business standpoint? Maybe, but I'm a consumer and I've got nothing to lose from this possibility.

Risk of cannibalization of existing laptops.

Pass.

GREEN4U
Jun 8, 2012, 03:20 PM
Very unfortunate that they are killing the 17". I love mine. I understand that they are not selling enough. Oh well, I have to go to 15".

That's the attitude.

Navdakilla
Jun 8, 2012, 03:21 PM
hmmm.. interesting but NO

Loge
Jun 8, 2012, 03:36 PM
FYI, here is an article that explains the potential updates much more clearer:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/08/inside_apples_rumored_new_macbook_vs_updated_macbook_pro.html

If this is true, I will definitely be picking up a new 15" Macbook in June. :D

Explains it better. The new models are not a "third" line but part of a phased transition to the new line. Hence "equal computing power". The older MBP (without the retina screen) will most likely be cheaper than the new models and in more plentiful supply in the short term.

Konrad
Jun 8, 2012, 03:43 PM
Euro 2012 started today. Poland 1 Greece 1, Russia 4 Czechoslovakia 1

Peace
Jun 8, 2012, 03:45 PM
I think this guy has BTO confused with a new line.

wkadamsjr
Jun 8, 2012, 03:47 PM
Isn't the purpose of the "Pro" moniker to identify it as a model for "professional" users? I'm just curious as to why a professional would need a Retina display. Sure, it is an added bonus, but I have been reading for weeks about people whining about the "loss of ethernet, loss of FireWire, loss of the optical drive, etc."

I could see these both being priced the same (they will make money on both, no doubt). Do you need to be able to hook your computer up at work? Go with the Pro. If not, go with the MacBook. I highly doubt Apple would not offer a Retina upgrade option on the Pro anyways (not familiar with the display sizes, and whether it would be physically possible, so correct me if I'm wrong here).

It may muddy the waters temporarily, but it offers Apple a real-world opportunity to see how well the Pro model sells next to the trimmed down model. Obviously, if the Pro sells well, you slap a Retina display on it standard in future releases (when the displays come down more in price) and sell it for more.

In other words, don't be so quick to dismiss this as a hoax. Unlikely? Maybe. But impossible? Surely not.

tom vilsack
Jun 8, 2012, 03:56 PM
I totally see apple doing this...why?

-bring in new macbooks (without dvd,retina,thinner ect) and keep macbook pro's same (just new cpu's,retina)...then let the consumer tell apple what ones they want...it's a win win for apple.

AppliedMicro
Jun 8, 2012, 04:07 PM
I can see them somehow differentiate between 15" MacBook and 15" MacBook Pro.
One of them featuring retina displays, the newer model without optical drive.

But a third 13" model doesn't make much sense to me.
It is already confusing enough as it stands now:
13" Air: better, higher-resolution display, faster SSD
13" Pro: more powerful CPU, more connection options

marcusj0015
Jun 8, 2012, 04:18 PM
Damn u. :p

I'll down vote this one again. Thanks for the other down votes, see how it makes the post go away. : )

Should be

Macbook Air 11,13,15

Macbook 13,15,17 mid range GPU's, decent specs

MBP 13,15,17 High end GPU's, high end specs retina etc...

I agree with your list. *Imagine a thumbs up emoticon here*

kjell
Jun 8, 2012, 04:22 PM
Sounds like this could simply be a renaming. Currently, the MBP has a low end and a high end version for the 13 and the 15 inch models, the 17" model comes only as a high end version.

The low spec options could get renamed to just 'MacBook'. The high spec option, with fast gpu's needed for retina displays, stays 'MacBook Pro'. This would explain why there won't be a 17" MacBook.

wiz329
Jun 8, 2012, 04:40 PM
I hope we dont see ANOTHER line up of MacBooks.

I'd rather they consolidate it more.

The difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro is now very minor. Just have a MacBook line that is the thickness of the Air, and then offer a wide range of performance options (e.g still have a 11" at 1.6ghz, but also have a 15" with an i7.

It just seems to be silly to me to have such a wide range when they could just have a single lineup of laptops that are as thick as the air (or slightly thicker).

Correction: there currently is no macbook in Apple's lineup.

I have no problem with the current ones being regular "macbooks" and these new ones being the new "pro" computers. Finally, a laptop worthy of the "pro" moniker.

Also, getting rid of the 17" is a mistake. May only account for 1% of sales, but I doubt they will save that much by axing the line. Also, the community that the 17" serves has a lot more sway than what they immediately buy. Simply put: there's really no need to get rid of it.

----------

Isn't the purpose of the "Pro" moniker to identify it as a model for "professional" users? I'm just curious as to why a professional would need a Retina display. Sure, it is an added bonus, but I have been reading for weeks about people whining about the "loss of ethernet, loss of FireWire, loss of the optical drive, etc."

I could see these both being priced the same (they will make money on both, no doubt). Do you need to be able to hook your computer up at work? Go with the Pro. If not, go with the MacBook. I highly doubt Apple would not offer a Retina upgrade option on the Pro anyways (not familiar with the display sizes, and whether it would be physically possible, so correct me if I'm wrong here).

It may muddy the waters temporarily, but it offers Apple a real-world opportunity to see how well the Pro model sells next to the trimmed down model. Obviously, if the Pro sells well, you slap a Retina display on it standard in future releases (when the displays come down more in price) and sell it for more.

In other words, don't be so quick to dismiss this as a hoax. Unlikely? Maybe. But impossible? Surely not.


Why would professional users need a retina display? You're kidding right? Any sort of photo or video editing would benefit tremendously -- which is what many macs are used for.

rb4havoc
Jun 8, 2012, 04:44 PM
I can't wait for Apple to release a new 17" MBP just so Kuo can eat his words. I honestly don't like this guy nor his predictions.

keramidas
Jun 8, 2012, 05:08 PM
I can't wait for Apple to release a new 17" MBP just so Kuo can eat his words. I honestly don't like this guy nor his predictions.

maybe now we can easier explain the long downtime a week ago when online store went down for 8+ hours.

thleeal
Jun 8, 2012, 05:12 PM
hey guys, just a thought…..

I cant personally remember the last time apple updated everything at once… ive been mac since about 2007…
now feel free to correct me if im wrong, but if they have waited for all of this time to do everything all at once, there has got to be something monumental right….

retina displays…. whatever you want to call them… just doesnt seem spectacular enough… especially as they have been done on iphone/ipad…

if its just a redesign, it would have just been the mbp's and not the imac… or vice versa…

Apple TV… a set with the box built in… some new features…. cant just be that.

usb3 minor, dropping ports minor….. all together it doesnt seem like enough…

something in the back of my mind is niggling away saying that this is going to be something monumental….

liquid metal, curved screen, leap motion built in, that would be monumental.

ohbrilliance
Jun 8, 2012, 05:39 PM
I don't agree. If you completely take away the HDD, you lose a lot of people. SSDs have come down in price quite a bit, but they're still prohibitively expensive in the sizes that a lot of people need.

The time is right for Apple to move the MBP line to SSD-only. My prediction is that the lower-spec 15" will come with 256GB of storage, and the high spec with 512GB. The $400 price differential will cover that*, instead of or as well as the usual minor increases of CPU/HDD/graphics. A 1TB SSD option may be offered as BTO with the usual high margin of $500 or more.
512GB will be in the ballpark of 750GB offered currently, and not dissimilar to one iteration of the iPod (classic) dropping from 160GB to 120GB so that slimmer drives could be used.

*The consumer price of flash memory is at or below $1/GB now. With Apple's mass-purchasing arrangements, and blade SSD, I'm sure Apple pays much less. In this case, Apple will initially make a lower than usual margin on the SSD-component of MBPs until SSD prices drop further still.

Let's see how that prediction pans out. :)

frederikolafsen
Jun 8, 2012, 05:48 PM
Considering the fact that Apple is quasi-rebranding Mac OS X to simply OS X in Mountain Lion, could they be moving away from the MacBook name altogether? I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but could we be seeing the return of the iBook with this new line? If you think about it, "iBook" has had, and could again have, the same sort of brand recognition as "MacBook". Sure, it's complete speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if this did happen. Thoughts, anyone?

quasibinaer
Jun 8, 2012, 05:50 PM
Nonsense.

Indeed. It´s always the same with analysts, they´re wrong with most things they predict.

If anything gets a retina display, it´s the 11" and 13" models. Retina is easier to do on smaller displays, thus they´re working their way up from the iPhone to the iPad and now the 13" model. Pretty straightforward. As usual.

D*I*S_Frontman
Jun 8, 2012, 05:51 PM
For typical portable use, 17" MBP's are pretty beefy. Tough to use on a plane (I can barely get my 15" open fully on the dining tray).

Having said that, for graphic designers making a pitch in a meeting, they're impressive, and for a lot of applications they are a reasonable option as a productive "desktop replacement."

Iconic figurehead model for the entire line. I sure hope they aren't going away. When it's time for me to upgrade, I'd like to go 17" if that option were still available.

Rachel Faith
Jun 8, 2012, 05:58 PM
If they drop the 17, my next laptop will be a hackintosh.

wiz329
Jun 8, 2012, 06:01 PM
hey guys, just a thought…..

I cant personally remember the last time apple updated everything at once… ive been mac since about 2007…
now feel free to correct me if im wrong, but if they have waited for all of this time to do everything all at once, there has got to be something monumental right….

retina displays…. whatever you want to call them… just doesnt seem spectacular enough… especially as they have been done on iphone/ipad…

if its just a redesign, it would have just been the mbp's and not the imac… or vice versa…

Apple TV… a set with the box built in… some new features…. cant just be that.

usb3 minor, dropping ports minor….. all together it doesnt seem like enough…

something in the back of my mind is niggling away saying that this is going to be something monumental….

liquid metal, curved screen, leap motion built in, that would be monumental.

Something like Ivy Bridge? ;)

I doubt its anything as game-changing as you are imagining.

SmokyD
Jun 8, 2012, 07:44 PM
The two part numbers aren't referring to a new macbook line.

Rather, it's what we've all been waiting for: it's the return of the Mac Cube. :p

Mackan
Jun 8, 2012, 08:26 PM
Whatever they update, they better have some cool stuff up their sleeve. I didn't wait one year to get a CPU spec update.

Fandongo
Jun 8, 2012, 09:17 PM
I'm sure it has appeared 50 times in the last 8 pages, but...

17" or GTFO.

sterlingindigo
Jun 8, 2012, 09:18 PM
If Apple can put a retinal display in a $500 iPad a few months ago and not raise prices, they can most certainly put a retinal display in every Macbook now.

Fandongo
Jun 8, 2012, 09:20 PM
For typical portable use, 17" MBP's are pretty beefy. Tough to use on a plane (I can barely get my 15" open fully on the dining tray).

Having said that, for graphic designers making a pitch in a meeting, they're impressive, and for a lot of applications they are a reasonable option as a productive "desktop replacement."

Iconic figurehead model for the entire line. I sure hope they aren't going away. When it's time for me to upgrade, I'd like to go 17" if that option were still available.

Couldn't open my 15 more than halfway on my flight.
It's less a laptop problem and more a problem with coach.
Of course, an iPad would be more appropriate.

blue22
Jun 8, 2012, 09:51 PM
This makes little sense for Apple to introduce a "third" MacBook product line, especially given it's history with keeping their product lines lean and simple.

I'm guessing that Apple might introduce Retina displays for the MacBook Pro's as a BTO option. Rember not too long ago there was a MR rumor post on how the retina display might add another $100 to the price of the laptop (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/16/retina-resolution-displays-to-add-up-to-100-to-apples-macbook-pro-costs/), so this could actually make sense of that particular rumor. Just a thought.

HardBall
Jun 8, 2012, 09:56 PM
Ethernet, Firewire and Optical are just a hindrance to product design. They really need to just go. There's new technology today that comfortably replace these.

Unfortunately not everyone is eager to change so quickly. It'll happen eventually. Maybe when something much newer replaces the new technology, then people will finally let CD's go.

All my friends use the CD-drive argument for choosing the macbook pro. When I ask them what they use the CD drive for, they go blank. It's a psychological thing.

Seriously, why can't some obstinate users just move on from these byzantine technology that belong in the museums. I think most people will celebrate the dqy when u can no longer find a laptop with optical, FW, ethernet, and a bunch of stuff that only people who are resistant o change would use.

HardBall
Jun 8, 2012, 09:57 PM
This makes little sense for Apple to introduce a "third" MacBook product line, especially given it's history with keeping their product lines lean and simple.

I'm guessing that Apple might introduce Retina displays for the MacBook Pro's as a BTO option. Rember not too long ago there was a MR rumor post on how the retina display might add another $100 to the price of the laptop (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/16/retina-resolution-displays-to-add-up-to-100-to-apples-macbook-pro-costs/), so this could actually make sense of that particular rumor. Just a thought.

If this rumor turns out 2 have merit, then its likely that the new 13" will b called the macbook, while the larger machines of this new line would b branded MBP

stanleyparrales
Jun 8, 2012, 10:31 PM
Why not drop the pro and air, have 4 laptops called MacBook 11,13,15 & 17. All of them have no DVD drive or HDD allowing for a slim design. Specs 11inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 undervolted ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 4GB+ ram. 13 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i5 quad core ivy bridge,SD card reader, ethernet port, FireWire, 128GB+ SSD & 4GB+ ram. 15 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 quad core ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 8GB+ ram. 17 inch model: Retina display, 2 USB 3.0 ports, thundebolt port, i7 quad core ivy bridge, 128GB+ SSD & 8GB+ ram. Also 1080p iSight camera, Bluetooth 4.0, backlit keyboard and maybe even 802.11ac standard across range. Price $999 and up! If apple does this they can take over the world who agrees with me?

Preach on brother i agree, although i doubt they will put quad core in the 13inch, im hoping they do but thats unlikely

As for this article, who seriously belives this? apple got rid of the macbook and now its just the pro and the air, maybe in the next 2 years there will problay be a single line of a merged pro and air, but not yet, lets try to stick to the facts people
retina display maybe but who cares the resolution on the mac is awesome as it is already
i want usb 3.0
no optical drive
and hoping for quad core for 13 inch but i won't hold my breath

Skullbussa
Jun 8, 2012, 10:34 PM
17" is going nowhere. This analyst is an idiot, he is not factoring the profit margins. Apple kills the 17 and people will just buy Samsung. A 15" with Retina is NOT a replacement for more screen real estate. People who keep repeating this are simply inept.

pacalis
Jun 8, 2012, 11:04 PM
hey guys, just a thought…..

I cant personally remember the last time apple updated everything at once… ive been mac since about 2007…
now feel free to correct me if im wrong, but if they have waited for all of this time to do everything all at once, there has got to be something monumental right….

....liquid metal, curved screen, leap motion built in, that would be monumental.

As Apple showed with the 4s, disappointment can be monumental.

----------

A 15" with Retina is NOT a replacement for more screen real estate. People who keep repeating this are simply inept.

Or read. Or use word documents. Or excel. Or have two applications open at the same time.

JohnDoe98
Jun 8, 2012, 11:21 PM
A 15" with Retina is NOT a replacement for more screen real estate. People who keep repeating this are simply inept.

A 15" in Retina has a native screen resolution of 2880x1800, so if you turn off HiDPI mode, losing Retina graphics, you could run your screen at 1900x1200 if you like, which would increase the screen real estate. So yes, Retina screens could allow more screen real estate, not at Retina PPIs though. I think too many are confused as to just what Retina is all about...

Lahmy88
Jun 8, 2012, 11:45 PM
Nah I believe Apple would be best to simply drop the 'Air' from MacBook Airs and have them known from then on simply as the base MacBooks, with the MacBook Pro featuring all of the expensive shiz such as Retina display, larger capacity (more expensive) SSDs as standard (why ya wouldn't adopt the Air's SSD sticks I don't know - they're brillliant!), and possibly even provision for a standard 2.5" bay for actual HDD bulk storage of the user's data.

Having 3 MacBook lines I would imagine would absolutely go against Apple's simplicity ideals and I'd be very surprised even if they adopted it just for less than 12 months. I also wouldn't hold ya breath on Retina displays this generation because Apple is known for disappointing us rumour watchers!

ahaaja
Jun 8, 2012, 11:47 PM
I think most people misunderstand this. I think Apple might release a third line of Macbook during WWDC, but it will be TEMPORARY. The Macbook Pro's with CD/DVD:s will of course be phased out over the next 1-2 years.

Exio
Jun 8, 2012, 11:57 PM
Considering the fact that Apple is quasi-rebranding Mac OS X to simply OS X in Mountain Lion, could they be moving away from the MacBook name altogether? I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but could we be seeing the return of the iBook with this new line? If you think about it, "iBook" has had, and could again have, the same sort of brand recognition as "MacBook". Sure, it's complete speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if this did happen. Thoughts, anyone?

Hadn't even thought about that; you do bring a very interesting point, one that I would actually vote for. :)

drblank
Jun 9, 2012, 12:14 AM
MacBook Ultra? For the high end Retina displays
MacBook for the education market
MacBook Air for the executive/casual user

JohnDoe98
Jun 9, 2012, 12:19 AM
MacBook Ultra? For the high end Retina displays
MacBook for the education market
MacBook Air for the executive/casual user

And the:

MacBook Extreme for the gamers
MacBook Pro for the professionals
MacBook Cinema for the movie fanatics
.
.
.

Santabean2000
Jun 9, 2012, 12:21 AM
I would like to see:
11" and 13" MBAs
13" MacBooks (optical drive, ethernet,non-retina)
13" and 15" MBPs (no ODD, dual SSD/HDD, discrete graphics, retina, matte option)

13" MacBook to target education and single computer folk; phased out in 1-2 years.

hleewell
Jun 9, 2012, 12:40 AM
Apple should equip the 15" with a hybrid SSD/HDD system like their fantastic iMac line. The SSD blade from MBA is a thing of beauty, why not use it on the thicker MBP and give the users more capacity with the 2ndary HDD. Now a 1TB or even 2TB HDD is affordable and think about how much data you can consolidate in a single laptop without stuffing those pesky little Western Digital HDDs in your backpack plus those pesky tangled mess called USB cables.

----------

And the:

MacBook Extreme for the gamers
MacBook Pro for the professionals
MacBook Cinema for the movie fanatics
.
.
.

If you are a movie fanatic, you won't be watching movies on a 17" screen laptop. You'd buy one of those 55" Samsung LCDs with BluRay setup and 7.1 speakers. But I do agree Apple should ID/target this gaming market segment. \

deconstruct60
Jun 9, 2012, 01:30 AM
A 15" in Retina has a native screen resolution of 2880x1800, so if you turn off HiDPI mode, losing Retina graphics, you could run your screen at 1900x1200 if you like,

I think you have this backwards.

With HiDPI mode on you screen will present like a 1900x1200 screen. [ effectively you will get "subpixel" resolution when drawing lines and text so that antialising will improve and high resolution images will "shrink" , but look better. ] In short the icons and screen elements would be the same size as a monitor with 1900x1200 pixels... the 'virtual' pixels you see will just look better.

HiDPI mode is on machines now. It halves the pixels presented. Ars covered this in their Lion coverage ( here is a screenshot graphic from their article) :

http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/hidpi-display-modes.png

soure article http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7/14/#hi-dpi
HiDPI is Apple's solution to "Resolution Independence". As long as things are a even multiple they are independent. :)


When you turn on HiDPI with the higher pixel displays in Mountain Lion it will do the same thing.... give you effective virtual pixels that are less than the native number.

The default mode on the newer boxes will likely be that HiDPI is on all the time.

When you turn off HiDPI the icons/objects/etc on the screen are going to shrink smaller. 12 pt Font won't be 12 pt anymore .... much closer to 6 pt. That mode will be OK for view photographs and video on the screen but it likely won't be nice to work in for text.

That's why folks are saying they need a physically larger screen with more real estate. Sure you can pack the same number of pixels of the current 17" display into a 15" display. The issue is whether you have going to be able to read the text or "see" what is on the display since things will be significantly smaller.

vpro
Jun 9, 2012, 01:41 AM
This is exciting regardless what is announced I am so stoked! I just have a feeling that the 17in MBPs are not gonna just 'end', its not like it is like the bulky plastic white macbooks, even those are still really great durable machines - though they are no longer in circulation they at least dropped in price considerably before they bid farewell, so if that happens to the 17" MBPs then I'm gonna grab one before they go thanks. Then wait till the slim 17" retina models come out :D

I don't like predictions I like watching trends come and go, then snatch up the best in between those periods and make my dollar stretch!

haravikk
Jun 9, 2012, 02:42 AM
I'm not sure I see the need for it? Between the Air and the Pro we have a good balance, the only problem really is that the Air isn't exactly cheap as an entry-level Mac laptop.

If they wanted to round out the line-up then they'd be better off coming up with a cheaper low-end Air, for example by making the current 64gb low-end model cheaper while other models go up in speed and capacity.

As it is the loss of the Macbook, which got a lot of students onto Mac laptops, has never really been replaced by anything in Apple's lineup, and I think it's an gap that really ought to be fixed.


The only alternative I could see is if Apple were to try and eliminate the Pro and Air by creating a hybrid model that gives the Air form-factor, but scales up to Pro level performance.

mscice
Jun 9, 2012, 03:33 AM
I really hope this does not happen.. Pro should remain pro ..

ezekielrage_99
Jun 9, 2012, 03:49 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but was it Tim Cook mention that Apple needed more product lines to remain competitive and profitable without siloing the current line up?

50548
Jun 9, 2012, 05:09 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but was it Tim Cook mention that Apple needed more product lines to remain competitive and profitable without siloing the current line up?

When the heck did he say that? If anything, he would state EXACTLY the opposite...the rumor above is absolute BS - Apple will NOT introduce a new line, it will streamline the current one even further.

MBA merging with MBP 13", plus a reduced number of MBP models (minus the 17", which doesn't make any sense anymore - you need bigger screens as a professional editor? That's why you have the iMac or Mac Pro).

Northgrove
Jun 9, 2012, 05:26 AM
This can't be true...
Thinner, MBP level processing power, and with Retina Display?????
I can't see why people would want to buy MBP anymore, so why bother having a MBP line where the new "MacBook" is better?

The only reason I could see would be something like a $300 price difference.

ogh
Jun 9, 2012, 05:37 AM
I really hope this does not happen.. Pro should remain pro ..

Agree. I need a computer that can run "Pro" programs. Preferably only "Pro" programs so my kids don't spill lemonade on it. The optical drive can go for SSD and larger HDD. Two i7 with 4 cores each and a reasonable 64GB RAM would be ok.
-> Owner of hard-to-kill MBP 2007 with sticky keyboard and optical drive last forced open with large screwdriver.

ezekielrage_99
Jun 9, 2012, 06:21 AM
When the heck did he say that? If anything, he would state EXACTLY the opposite...the rumor above is absolute BS - Apple will NOT introduce a new line, it will streamline the current one even further.

MBA merging with MBP 13", plus a reduced number of MBP models (minus the 17", which doesn't make any sense anymore - you need bigger screens as a professional editor? That's why you have the iMac or Mac Pro).

The quantifier was "not siloing", I actually am not agreeing with the rumor rather pointing out that siloing and segregating a product line wouldn't be in Apple's interest.

I thought Cook pointed the idea out of expanding the products available without watering down the lines with the cash reserves. Adding a 15" MBA to the mix I get, adding two new MacBooks I just don't get.

mobi
Jun 9, 2012, 08:07 AM
Make a separate line for Retina Displays? That would be stupid.

Meh not gonna happen. Anxious to see more than a refresh!

deconstruct60
Jun 9, 2012, 09:02 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but was it Tim Cook mention that Apple needed more product lines to remain competitive and profitable without siloing the current line up?

I believe this was at the recent D10 conference? If I recall correctly Cook said that as a strategic guideline for Apple. This is not necessarily a specific strategy for any of the sub areas that Apple has products in. This is a guide between those product areas (e.g., Mac , iPad , etc.). It is why the dropped "Computer" from their name several years back. Apple needs to do something beside the "Computer" (i.e., general PC) silo.

Apple needs a competitive Mac along with a competitive iPad along with a competitive iPhone. If they just try to make one of those competitive and coast on the others then the organization will fail over time at being competitive overall and profitable overall.

Having the goes into a positive feedback loop of negative outcomes if try to apply it to an individual silo itself. If Apple comes up with sub-sub-sub product lines aimed at extremely narrow and lengthy features then will stretch the limits of product segmentation too far. You get a bloated, confusing product line up and much higher internal cannibalization that is driven by the bloated line up versus cannibalization driven by external factors ( new better technology , changing user preferences , etc.)


For example, you couldn't build an effective iPad 12 years ago. (with the same design constraints and price point the iPad has now. ) So Apple didn't . If Apple purely focused on being the best Mac company they could be they would have missed the iPad. They also have to willing to take the lowest end Mac "losses" to pick up the iPad gains in some cases. (primarily, externally factors driven cannibalization. Other companies invented the core technology that enabled the iPad over those 12 years.... Apple just used them. )


When the heck did he say that? If anything, he would state EXACTLY the opposite...the rumor above is absolute BS - Apple will NOT introduce a new line, it will streamline the current one even further.

They may. Strategy is not tactics. Sometimes you have to briefly reverse direction to get out of a local maximum and on to a better global maximum.

Over time, the MBA wiped out the legacy MacBook/iBook line. However, it took several years to get there. Over those years people going used to the concept that a laptop with practically all of the sockets and disks removed could still be a viable laptop. Over time Apple tweaked the design until finally the MBA 11" wiped out the MacBook.

These forums are filled that huge numbers of repsones when the rumor says Apple is going to take away a feature or two. Remove the ODD and Firewire ..... "oh it is the end of the world" ..... for 300 - 600 responses. Apple is going to remove Ethernet ... another 200-300 responses.

Now imagine what would happen if Appe willy nilly announced they were cancelling the Air and Pro lines at the same time. Especially, in the context they had eliminated the MacBook. Imagine the panadomium. That would be a good 1000 posts about "OMG Apple is going to force everyone into using iPads. " kind of thread.

If these new MacBook come out and people can look them over in the stores for 11 months then if they later come out and say the Air and Pro are dead at least people know (well those with some sense ) that this isn't an "iPad" move but a Mac move.

Like the MBA I think Apple is going to "park" these new entries above the MBP in price for a year or two then then start to "merge" the price points. At the "merge" the MBP and MBA will get wiped out. It wouldn't be surprising either if the MBP 13" and MBA 13" switched entry price points. (e.g,. MBP gets dGPU. )


If these "new" versions come standard with large SSDs (over 128GB) and "Pixel doubled" (Retina) displays it is going to be hard to make them beat the others on price and keep Apple's standard margin. Similarly, Thunderbolt is going to grow at normal pace and won't be fully deployed for at least two years. TB only has one year, of those two, under its belt. And if betting on Haswell to get them out of some thermal/performance jams ... chuckle ... like Intel is going to arrive on time with that. Probably not given their track record over the last 12 months. Apple is a couple of years ahead of all of those being a foundation they can layer the whole laptop line on for the broadest spectrum of users. A "big bang" replacement wouldn't likely work.


(minus the 17", which doesn't make any sense anymore - you need bigger screens as a professional editor? That's why you have the iMac or Mac Pro).

That's a bonehead comment. The need is there. The substantive problem is that those truly in "need" are relatively small in number.

The 17" users who "needed" ExpressCard or the fastest CPU/GPU combo or several other factors really didn't need the 17" screen iteself. It was just coupled to the biggest screen. These days the 15" has all the PCI-e expansion , CPU , GPU abilities the larger form factor has.

Similarly, those that just needed the pixels ( e.g., needed to put all the pixels of a 1080p video stream on the screen at once with pixels supported by the native screen panel ) can also likely "get by" with a 15 screen if more pixels than the 17" had. Many video and photographers fall into this bucket. ( a full screen playback/slideshow of the underlying video/RAW files is going to use all of the pixels if looking for tiny glitches in the recorded material. )

The only ones that are left are the ones that needed larger "effective" pixels but also needed alot of them visible at the same time. That's going to be a smaller group that the number of 17" sold now. If the 17" is already at 1% .... that's indicative have entered a sub-silo that is tooooo narrow.

koyoot
Jun 9, 2012, 10:04 AM
Noone thought that there will be no 3rd line of MB's?

MC975X/A is connected to MC965LL/A which is... 13 inch Macbook Air. In other words. There will be no redesign for MBP, just new 15 inch Macbook Air, with ULV Processor, AND low power Discreet GPU(Geforce GT 640M-LP/Radeon HD7730M), Retina display. No ethernet, no optical drive. Everything is quite fair, don't ya think? Besides, Apple would get then 2 lines with MB's with 3 computers in them. 11, 13 and 15 inch Macbook Air, and 13, 15 and 17 inch Macbook Pro.

Edit. In my opinion. Macbook Pro line will get only spec bump. 3615QM/4GB RAM 1600MHz/GT650M-HD7750M/500HDD - 3720QM/8GB RAM 1600MHz/GTX660M-HD7850M/750GB

Cheffy Dave
Jun 9, 2012, 10:28 AM
Make a separate line for Retina Displays? That would be stupid.

maybe its due to supply issues:cool:

felixen
Jun 9, 2012, 11:11 AM
I hope we dont see ANOTHER line up of MacBooks.

I'd rather they consolidate it more.

The difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro is now very minor. Just have a MacBook line that is the thickness of the Air, and then offer a wide range of performance options (e.g still have a 11" at 1.6ghz, but also have a 15" with an i7.

It just seems to be silly to me to have such a wide range when they could just have a single lineup of laptops that are as thick as the air (or slightly thicker).

This. Part of Apple's original key philosophy was to keep a small product line. They must be careful with this, now rumored to launch a TV, an iPad mini, a camera and a new line of laptops. I know these are rumors, but still.

Konrad
Jun 9, 2012, 11:18 AM
It is kind of amusing to see here the majority using the two phrases...I want/I like, or Apple should. It is somewhat in line with Steve's infamous arrogance. All together now...Yet, so close to the circus and still no firm leaks. LOL.

arnoldma
Jun 9, 2012, 12:31 PM
still holding out for a new 15" air, come on apple! :)

JohnDoe98
Jun 9, 2012, 12:42 PM
I think you have this backwards.

With HiDPI mode on you screen will present like a 1900x1200 screen. [ effectively you will get "subpixel" resolution when drawing lines and text so that antialising will improve and high resolution images will "shrink" , but look better. ] In short the icons and screen elements would be the same size as a monitor with 1900x1200 pixels... the 'virtual' pixels you see will just look better.

To display 1900x1200 with HiDPI mode turned on you would need the native screen resolution to be 3800x2400, I don't see that happening.


HiDPI mode is on machines now. It halves the pixels presented. Ars covered this in their Lion coverage ( here is a screenshot graphic from their article) :

Image (http://static.arstechnica.net/2011/07/04/lion/hidpi-display-modes.png)

soure article http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7/14/#hi-dpi

HiDPI is not on machines right now. Yes the feature is built-into Lion and ML, but by default it is turned off. You could turn it on if you have a screen capable of it, as for example happens for people who buy AirDisplay and use their iPads as second screens.


HiDPI is Apple's solution to "Resolution Independence". As long as things are a even multiple they are independent. :)

Right.


When you turn on HiDPI with the higher pixel displays in Mountain Lion it will do the same thing.... give you effective virtual pixels that are less than the native number.

Exactly.


The default mode on the newer boxes will likely be that HiDPI is on all the time.

Right.


When you turn off HiDPI the icons/objects/etc on the screen are going to shrink smaller. 12 pt Font won't be 12 pt anymore .... much closer to 6 pt. That mode will be OK for view photographs and video on the screen but it likely won't be nice to work in for text.

No, if you turn off HiDPI you still need to pick a resolution. If you picked 640x480 your 12pt Font would be huge. If, on a 15" machine, you picked something like 1900x1200, or even worse, 2880x1800, then yes the 12 pt Font will be tiny. Turning HiDPI on or off doesn't automatically do anything.


That's why folks are saying they need a physically larger screen with more real estate. Sure you can pack the same number of pixels of the current 17" display into a 15" display. The issue is whether you have going to be able to read the text or "see" what is on the display since things will be significantly smaller.

Perhaps but that's not what I am addressing.

deconstruct60
Jun 9, 2012, 01:42 PM
To display 1900x1200 with HiDPI mode turned on you would need the native screen resolution to be 3800x2400, I don't see that happening.

You popped out the 1900x1200 number. I was not trying to vet the number. Just making the point that the smaller number of any two being talking about with HiDPI on/off would be when HiDPI was turned on.

Yes a far as feasiblity goes. With HiDPI on a 1440 by 900 display is far more tractable if you believe a 2880 x 1800 15" screen is affordable. Your

These non-doubled multiple "HiRes" screens that Apple has trotted out over the last 4-5 years have been the problem. The sizes of objects and fonts all change. So that if put a MBA 11" side by side with a MBP 13" or even MBA 13" , open text edit, set to 9pt font , and type a sentence you can easily see that the text is of different sizes.




HiDPI is not on machines right now. Yes the feature is built-into Lion and ML, but by default it is turned off.

It is on the machines but it is. OK.




You could turn it on if you have a screen capable of it,


Just about any screen is capable of going half. It is much more a question if half is going to be "enough" pixels to get something useful done.



No, if you turn off HiDPI you still need to pick a resolution. If you picked 640x480 your 12pt Font would be huge. If, on a 15" machine, you picked something like 1900x1200, or even worse, 2880x1800, then yes the 12 pt Font will be tiny. Turning HiDPI on or off doesn't automatically do anything.


If think driving at a point that most users aren't having problems with. I suspect Apple is going to over time go to a screen resolution list that is much shorter on some machine. [ At least if get the normal control panel. There may be an "advanced" control panel where can through display panel into some oddball resolution which are usually not but but present because some app is hardcoded to some legacy screen size. ] I've used makes for over a decade and I don't think I've ever set it to something other than the native setting.

Apple track record so far is that more resolution mean the stuff on the screen is more resolution depended. The objective of hiDPI when depoyed would be that users would get resolution independent settings. That when users select from a short list more details come out but things do not change in size. The would be normal operating mode. Essentially, you wouldn't get to pick something like 640x480 at all normally.

racer1441
Jun 9, 2012, 01:45 PM
Just give me my 15 inch Air. If hey do that, they can take the 17 inch out behind the barn and put her down for all I care.

conorm19147
Jun 9, 2012, 03:27 PM
I can't tell if I like this idea or not, I would certainly be happier if they would just make this new model the updated MacBook Pro in 13" and 15" but keep the 17" for people who want a desktop replacement with an optical drive. It does say that this model will have standard HDD and SSD configuration which in my opinion is a step up from the MBA flash memory (considering that is hard to upgrade). But it better have expandable memory or so help me god

50548
Jun 9, 2012, 04:12 PM
Just give me my 15 inch Air. If hey do that, they can take the 17 inch out behind the barn and put her down for all I care.

The "15 inch Air" may be the new 15" MBP...however, there is NOT going to be a 15" MBA AND a 15" MBP, for obvious reasons of lineup streamlining...forget about it.

NewbieCanada
Jun 9, 2012, 05:18 PM
17" is going nowhere. This analyst is an idiot, he is not factoring the profit margins. Apple kills the 17 and people will just buy Samsung. A 15" with Retina is NOT a replacement for more screen real estate. People who keep repeating this are simply inept.

If every person who would buy a 17 in the next year bought another brand instead of an Apple, Apple would neither notice, nor care. You can't get around the fact that people just are NOT buying it.

koyoot
Jun 9, 2012, 05:23 PM
If every person who would buy a 17 in the next year bought another brand instead of an Apple, Apple would neither notice, nor care. You can't get around the fact that people just are NOT buying it.

Yeah, with 200 000 units sold in 2011. Nobody buys them...

In other words. 200 000 x 2500$ = 500 000 000 $

No, Apple won't notice it.

vpro
Jun 9, 2012, 06:41 PM
I will buy what ever I like.

gladoscc
Jun 9, 2012, 07:24 PM
I hope we dont see ANOTHER line up of MacBooks.

I'd rather they consolidate it more.

The difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro is now very minor. Just have a MacBook line that is the thickness of the Air, and then offer a wide range of performance options (e.g still have a 11" at 1.6ghz, but also have a 15" with an i7.

It just seems to be silly to me to have such a wide range when they could just have a single lineup of laptops that are as thick as the air (or slightly thicker).

Impossible. MBA is so thin cause it uses Ultra Low Voltage Chips. They're **expensive as hell**, and very slow compared to full chips. In addition, good luck fitting a dedicated GPU which is mandatory if you want to do anything like video editing.

jcpb
Jun 9, 2012, 07:28 PM
ULV CPUs are more expensive than standard voltage ones? That's impossible.

koyoot
Jun 9, 2012, 08:20 PM
ULV CPUs are more expensive than standard voltage ones? That's impossible.

Roughly the same price. 346$ ULV vs. 378$ Quad Core i7. Which means that they are not much cheaper, but much slower.

racer1441
Jun 9, 2012, 09:21 PM
The "15 inch Air" may be the new 15" MBP...however, there is NOT going to be a 15" MBA AND a 15" MBP, for obvious reasons of lineup streamlining...forget about it.

I don't care what they call it.

JohnDoe98
Jun 9, 2012, 09:58 PM
You popped out the 1900x1200 number. I was not trying to vet the number. Just making the point that the smaller number of any two being talking about with HiDPI on/off would be when HiDPI was turned on.

But that is precisely the point that is being disputed. A 15" with a native screen resolution of 2880x1800 could have a max HiDPI functional resolution of 1440x900, but it could operate at much higher resolutions like 1900x1200 if you turn off HiDPI, since the screen is capable of going all the way up to 2880x1800 with HiDPI turned off. What options Apple will enable with HiDPI off is unknown, but presumably they would allow at least 1680x1050 and 1900x1200 on the 15", which is a higher functional resolution than the 1440x900 you would get with HiDPI turned on.


These non-doubled multiple "HiRes" screens that Apple has trotted out over the last 4-5 years have been the problem. The sizes of objects and fonts all change. So that if put a MBA 11" side by side with a MBP 13" or even MBA 13" , open text edit, set to 9pt font , and type a sentence you can easily see that the text is of different sizes.

Maybe, but I'm having a hard time seeing the relevance of this regarding what I was talking about.


Just about any screen is capable of going half. It is much more a question if half is going to be "enough" pixels to get something useful done.

Not really, on my MBP the lowest resolution I can use is 800x600 and the max is 1440x900. So I can't turn on HiDPI even though Lion and ML are capable of it. The same holds true for two iMacs and a MacBook Air that I occasionally use.



Apple track record so far is that more resolution mean the stuff on the screen is more resolution depended. The objective of hiDPI when depoyed would be that users would get resolution independent settings. That when users select from a short list more details come out but things do not change in size. The would be normal operating mode. Essentially, you wouldn't get to pick something like 640x480 at all normally.

Agreed.

trajan2448
Jun 10, 2012, 01:28 AM
This guy also predicted the death of Mac pro.

----------

Yeah, with 200 000 units sold in 2011. Nobody buys them...

In other words. 200 000 x 2500$ = 500 000 000 $

No, Apple won't notice it.

maybe in China they don't buy it but in the US stores they sell a ton of 17". I don't see Apple abandoning power users. and with the peripherals, applecare, apps , upgrades its more like a billion.

Trian
Jun 11, 2012, 01:07 AM
Not happening.

One of the key product formulation strategies of Apple has been the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid. That means a small and clear set of options for the customers, so that they wouldn't have to fall into a choosing dilemma.

The Retina Macs would have to be placed somewhere in between the Pro and the Air, and it'd have to have a bit of both... That would screw both product lines. So... not happening IMO.

PeterJP
Jun 11, 2012, 01:35 AM
What ?

I wake up, the date says 11 June and there's still no new macs ? Apple is such a rip-off !

I need my new MacBook (which will, obviously, be called "Pro Air", abbreviated to Prayer) right now ! Where can I place an order for this with its 15" screen fit into an 11" chassis, 256GB RAM and a few tera SSD ? I hope they finally get that promised 30h battery life, otherwise it's a complete waste of time and money.

There, I had to get that off my chest :D


Peter.

Guacamole
Jun 11, 2012, 03:01 AM
Ethernet, Firewire and Optical are just a hindrance to product design. They really need to just go. There's new technology today that comfortably replace these.

Unfortunately not everyone is eager to change so quickly. It'll happen eventually. Maybe when something much newer replaces the new technology, then people will finally let CD's go.

All my friends use the CD-drive argument for choosing the macbook pro. When I ask them what they use the CD drive for, they go blank. It's a psychological thing.

Well, I use the cd drive and I wouldn't want to spend extra on an external one . I use it to play DVDs , to copy CDs onto iTunes, to save data onto CDs , I have many photos saved onto CDs , also onto external hard drive but I like to save stuff onto different places in case something goes wrong with the external hard drive.

MacRumorUser
Jun 11, 2012, 03:27 AM
The last developer release of Mountain Lion I tried out did not have full Hi-Dpi assets, and likewise 10.7.4 does not either.

With neither OS FULLY ready to embrace Hi-Dpi mode, why would Apple choose to do so now?





Come to think of it why would Chewbacca live on Endor with a bunch of Ewoks? ;) ;)

zgwortz
Jun 11, 2012, 10:04 AM
I think most people misunderstand this. I think Apple might release a third line of Macbook during WWDC, but it will be TEMPORARY. The Macbook Pro's with CD/DVD:s will of course be phased out over the next 1-2 years.

I think this may be the intent as well, IF the sales of the MacBook Pro with ODD are not enough to convince Apple that ODDs are still needed. It never made any sense to me for Apple to simply drop the ODD without at least offering it as a BTO option first. There is NO market data right now available to Apple saying how many people actually use and need an ODD - just a small number of very vocal users here who don't use it and have thus been predicting it's demise, incorrectly, for a couple of years now. (The same applies to the Ethernet and Firewire ports, BTW, which I expect will be retained on the MBP, but dropped from the midrange...)

So when this guy predicted a new in-between line back in April, it became pretty obvious to me that the new line was Apple's way of finding that out. IMHO, I think the market will demonstrate that there *is* still a large need for ODDs, and it's been pretty clear that Apple needs to get off it's high horse and upgrade the superdrive to a Blu-ray as well at some point, so I wouldn't be at all surprised if they *plan* to phase them out in a year or two, but end up instead upgrading and supporting them for years to come.

Jbach67
Jun 14, 2012, 03:22 PM
In future, I'm going to pay attention to all rumors from Kuo, who predicted a result most posters here and the MacRumors staff thought was fairly improbable. And yet we now have three lines of Macbook pro, temporarily according to Kuo. Hindsight is always 20 20, but looking at the results of predictions about WWDC it pays to separate the Digitimes from the Kuos in terms of reliability.