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MacRumors
Jun 8, 2012, 10:15 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/08/apple-reportedly-set-to-open-up-apple-tv-to-third-party-developers-at-wwdc/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/07/apple_tv_2010_oblique-150x100.jpgFollowing up on its report from last week (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/30/apple-to-unveil-television-set-operating-system-at-wwdc/) claiming that Apple will show off the operating system for its future television set product at next week's Worldwide Developers Conference, BGR now briefly reports (http://www.bgr.com/2012/06/08/apple-tv-sdk-wwdc-2012/) that Apple will be using the event to introduce a new software development kit (SDK) to allow third-party developers to build apps for the Apple TV.We have heard from a trusted source that Apple will be introducing a TV SDK at WWDC next week. This would enable third-party developers to create software for Apple's TV products.The report reveals no other details on Apple plans, but we do note that Steve Jobs himself admitted (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/17/jobs-says-apple-tv-app-store-could-launch-when-the-time-is-right/) just as the revised Apple TV was launching in September 2010 that the company could open an App Store for the Apple TV "when the time is right".

With rumors of an Apple television set continuing to build, Apple may now consider the time right to begin allowing developers to build apps for the existing Apple TV set-top box ahead of the company's larger entry into the market.

Article Link: Apple Reportedly Set to Open Up Apple TV to Third-Party Developers at WWDC (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/08/apple-reportedly-set-to-open-up-apple-tv-to-third-party-developers-at-wwdc/)



basesloaded190
Jun 8, 2012, 10:17 AM
Finally! This will probably be the thing that makes me retire my gen 1 Apple TV and upgrade.

profets
Jun 8, 2012, 10:18 AM
If we can get some XMBC and Plex action like this on the 1080p Apple TV and not worry about jailbreaking I'll buy 3.

myrtlebee
Jun 8, 2012, 10:19 AM
WWDC is going to be packed with all of these announcements - not sure they will all come to light.

newyorksole
Jun 8, 2012, 10:20 AM
you know what this means right? some developers have already had access to the Apple TV SDK and will be present to demo some apps!

Z400Racer37
Jun 8, 2012, 10:21 AM
Finally!!! come out with some controller hardware, video game developers jump on board, bye bye xbox!!! hello iTV!!

samac92
Jun 8, 2012, 10:21 AM
I'll definitely pick one up if this happens! Does this mean we'll finally get iPlayer?

Mad Mac Maniac
Jun 8, 2012, 10:21 AM
I don't really understand the real purpose of apps on your TV. Also the ATV has a very small amount of storage (8gb?).

I think what makes more sense is to have "companion" apps on your iPhone/iPad that can send a secondary screen to the TV and then use the iOS device to control the TV.. Similar (I think) to that smartglass thing microsoft announed.

edit: I know this can kind of already be accomplished (on a few games), but I think apple could really develop the capability and add a new "Apple TV" section to the App store. Also, just to note, I think these apps should be standalone apps for the iOS device also, but then a press of the airplay button would turn it into a companion app.

edit 2: I just thought of an extra perk of the iPhone companion app. Anytime I am at a friends who has an ATV I can just whip out my iPhone and use all my apps and content with all my settings and everything.

Plus once/if the iTV comes out the companion apps could probably be easily converted to download directly to the iTV. The reason I suggest this is because a) the iTV could have more storage and b) it could have an even swifter way to control the content (gestures or siri) that isn't currently capable on the ATV.

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 10:21 AM
The time has been right for years. Could you imagine where the iPhone would be today if they never created the App Store for it. Now imagine what would have happened if they had released the App Store along with the Apple TV 2.

If this is true, then hard times are ahead for all of the other STB's on the market today.

Laird Knox
Jun 8, 2012, 10:22 AM
I sure hope so, been waiting since day one. Would be nice to run apps on the device instead of streaming from the iPad. :)

ModestForumName
Jun 8, 2012, 10:22 AM
I still hold by the idea that a television set is NOT what they're planning. I think the "cracked" format is the current Apple TV. They're cheap, upgradable and gives a user freedom to do what they will with their tv screen. Imagine having an obsolete tv in 3 years and having to buy a new one. That's not a perfect solution, therefore, not apple.

edk99
Jun 8, 2012, 10:24 AM
Finally some good news!

ristlin
Jun 8, 2012, 10:25 AM
Rumor sites are getting too good. No wonder Tim can't do a "one more thing"

Ballis
Jun 8, 2012, 10:25 AM
If we can get some XMBC and Plex action like this on the 1080p Apple TV and not worry about jailbreaking I'll buy 3.

You'll never get XBMC while they still rely on FFmpeg for player, as its open source and will not be allowed as such into Apples ecosystem. You will most likely get Plex though, which is better anyways.

inkswamp
Jun 8, 2012, 10:26 AM
Am I the only one wondering why they would continue development on the AppleTV box if an Apple-branded TV set is (supposedly) just around the corner? Seems to me that this rumor makes the TV rumor a little less likely.

Laird Knox
Jun 8, 2012, 10:26 AM
I don't really understand the real purpose of apps on your TV. Also the ATV has a very small amount of storage (8gb?).

I think what makes more sense is to have "companion" apps on your iPhone/iPad that can send a secondary screen to the TV and then use the iOS device to control the TV.. Similar (I think) to that smartglass thing microsoft announed.

Hulu Plus is a good example. I would rather have the app running on the Apple TV instead of tying up my iPad streaming the content.

Sure, 8GB is small by today's standards but there are plenty of usable iPhones out there with 8GB so it isn't unreasonable.

Smartglass? You mean like AirPlay from an iPad? ;)

enjoyfebruary
Jun 8, 2012, 10:26 AM
Please Please Please PLEX. I will ditch my Roku so fast if they open the ATV up to developers. Apple, you've got my $100 if you can do this.

MacVault
Jun 8, 2012, 10:27 AM
About friggin time!

Does this mean we could soon have ability to play amazon vids, pandora radio, etc? Hope so!

mac26
Jun 8, 2012, 10:27 AM
With all these reports about Apple launching new things at WWDC, WWDC is going to be awesome:

- possibly Retina Macbook (Pro)
- iOS 6
- OS X 10.8
- Possibly all Macs updated at once (including Mac Pro)
- possibly new iPhone
- Apple TV for developers
the list goes on and on

Macist
Jun 8, 2012, 10:28 AM
About time too.

No more, 'Oh, Netflix... what about Lovefilm?'

There'll be an App for that/

This will see the Apple TV become a HUGE product, not a minor one.

undies1993
Jun 8, 2012, 10:28 AM
Come on Watch ESPN!

DTphonehome
Jun 8, 2012, 10:28 AM
If true, this is WAY bigger news than retina macs. Every network, HBO, movie streaming service, and hulu are going to drop apps immediately.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 10:29 AM
I don't really understand the real purpose of apps on your TV

Look at a product like Roku which has tons of "channels" (as apps). Instead of having one company who publicly calls the :apple:TV a hobby showing it a little love when they feel like it, you can have hundreds or thousands of developers filling in the gaps on all of the things various pools of people wish that it could do.

Also look at the jailbreak features for :apple:TV. These exist because those developers want more out of the little box than it delivers "as is". With an app store some of those kinds of "apps" could become apps (without a jailbreak required). Again, it extends the functionality for those interested in "more".

Thirdly, mentally time travel back to when the iPhone launched with just the handful of apps that Apple chose to include. Imagine it it had stayed that way (only Apple developing apps for the iPhone). Now think about how much utility & fun were added when the third parties got to contribute apps. That should frame the concept of potential for this little iDevice too (imagine what the third parties will be able to do... and then think about what you can't imagine that they'll do too).

Personally, this is (IMO) the best rumor for WWDC. Sure I definitely need a new Macbook Pro but I'm more excited about this rumor than the others.

undies1993
Jun 8, 2012, 10:29 AM
With all these reports about Apple launching new things at WWDC, WWDC is going to be awesome:

- possibly Retina Macbook (Pro)
- iOS 6
- OS X 10.8
- Possibly all Macs updated at once (including Mac Pro)
- possibly new iPhone
- Apple TV for developers
the list goes on and on

I don't see a new iPhone appearing. The others seem possible.

SteveAbootman
Jun 8, 2012, 10:29 AM
This could be big... lot's of great possibilities this would open up for the living room and tighter integration between iDevices.

Hope this one is true (and works with my 2nd gen ATV)

basesloaded190
Jun 8, 2012, 10:30 AM
If true, this is WAY bigger news than retina macs. Every network, HBO, movie streaming service, and hulu are going to drop apps immediately.

I wouldn't get your hopes up for that one.

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 10:30 AM
I don't really understand the real purpose of apps on your TV. Also the ATV has a very small amount of storage (8gb?).

I think what makes more sense is to have "companion" apps on your iPhone/iPad that can send a secondary screen to the TV and then use the iOS device to control the TV.. Similar (I think) to that smartglass thing microsoft announed.I assume you know about AirPlay. AirPlay works pretty well for some things but having an App Native to Apple TV is really much better. Regarding the 8GB. The iPhone and the iPad have different versions base on memory size. Not sure if there is a current 8GB iPhone or iPad because I always get the maximum memory but they also ran Apps with only 8GB. The Apple TV already has Apps as you know like NetFlix. What all of us want is to open it up to much more. I think the Apple TV could come with various models like the iPhone and iPad if necessary. Example: 8gb, 16gb, 32gb, 64gb, etc.

Richdmoore
Jun 8, 2012, 10:30 AM
I really hope this rumor is true. Hulu plus app would be a great addition to the aTV, in addition to all the other apps that would be available.

I am not sure about storage, I hope there would be some way to store more than 8 gb of data. Cloud storage or local network storage I guess, but maybe new models next year with more storage, like iPhone/iPad.

I believe the aTV 2/3 has a Bluetooth chip, so far unused. A game controller accessory would be fantastic, and could be used on multiple iOS/OSx devices. (I'm probably dreaming with that one.). Maybe open up the apple tv to be used with the apple Bluetooth keyboard as well.....

mrzeigler
Jun 8, 2012, 10:31 AM
Anyone else disappointed that we haven't heard any good rumors about innovation on the printer front?




:p

Maury
Jun 8, 2012, 10:31 AM
I don't really understand the real purpose of apps on your TV. Also the ATV has a very small amount of storage (8gb?).

I think what makes more sense is to have "companion" apps on your iPhone/iPad

So I have to buy an iPhone/iPad/Mac to get the CTV app so I can watch the Daily Show?

Or just download the exact same app onto the iTV?

I choose option 2.

WoodNUFC
Jun 8, 2012, 10:32 AM
This would be amazing! This is one rumor that I really care about. Wife and I love our ATV3, but more apps will make it immensely more useful!

MacRumorUser
Jun 8, 2012, 10:32 AM
Would be great. Hopefully with the use your iOS device as a remote control for those Apps which require accelerometer etc.

Be so great to have iPlayer, C4 OnDemand, RTE Player, TV3 Player - natively on my AppleTV without having to use AirPlay all the time.

undies1993
Jun 8, 2012, 10:33 AM
I really hope this rumor is true. Hulu plus app would be a great addition to the aTV, in addition to all the other apps that would be available.

I am not sure about storage, I hope there would be some way to store more than 8 gb of data. Cloud storage or local network storage I guess, but maybe new models next year with more storage, like iPhone/iPad.

I believe the aTV 2/3 has a Bluetooth chip, so far unused. A game controller accessory would be fantastic, and could be used on multiple iOS/OSx devices. (I'm probably dreaming with that one.). Maybe open up the apple tv to be used with the apple Bluetooth keyboard as well.....

Why do you need so much storage? Up until the iPhone 3gs, they came with 8gb and now when they release a new phone you can get the old phone in 8gb. I don't really see storage as an issue.

zorinlynx
Jun 8, 2012, 10:33 AM
Legit XBMC? PLEASE YES!!!!

conorm19147
Jun 8, 2012, 10:33 AM
prob gonna pick up that SDK but my focus right now is MB stuff, I know far too little even though it will all be revealed on Monday

CausticPuppy
Jun 8, 2012, 10:34 AM
I really hope this is true-- and I really really hope it's not limited to just the 3rd generation ATV! (I have an ATV2)

smithrh
Jun 8, 2012, 10:34 AM
I wouldn't get your hopes up for that one.

Why not? I actually expect HBO to do this very thing.

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 10:34 AM
Thirdly, mentally time travel back to when the iPhone launched with just the handful of apps that Apple chose to include. Imagine it it had stayed that way (only Apple developing apps for the iPhone). Now think about how much utility & fun were added when the third parties got to contribute apps. That should frame the concept of potential for this little iDevice too (imagine what the third parties will be able to do... and then think about what you can't imagine that they'll do too).You beat me to it. This is so obvious. I simply do not understand Apple's thinking on this subject. If this is true, better late then never but why wait so long.

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 10:35 AM
If this happens, and I can get Plex on Apple TV officially, I will turn in my HTPC.

I tried Roku with Plex, and it (both the Plex App and Roku) was so buggy I had to return and switch back to my HTPC

DTphonehome
Jun 8, 2012, 10:35 AM
I wouldn't get your hopes up for that one.

Why not? HBO Go is on iOS, Xbox, I think ps3, etc.

basesloaded190
Jun 8, 2012, 10:35 AM
Why not? I actually expect HBO to do this very thing.

Everything I read makes it seem like HBO is stubborn when bringing support to other platforms that they aren't comfortable with. I could be wrong though.

avonord
Jun 8, 2012, 10:36 AM
I really really really really really really want AirVideo on my AppleTV. Will make it 10000% more useful.

basesloaded190
Jun 8, 2012, 10:37 AM
What would be really cool is a Spotify App. Obviously for premium accounts only, but having access to the Spotify library via the Apple TV would be fantastic.

Eric8199
Jun 8, 2012, 10:37 AM
Here's what I don't get: Why would Apple even want to build a TV set? They've already got the AppleTV, which is cheap for consumers, and it can't get traction. Why would they spend the money to build a $2000 TV that won't sell either? TVs are a terrible industry, because people keep their TVs for YEARS! The reason the iPhone and the iPad are doing well is because people buy new phones every two years, typically, some more often. The iPad has been defined as a product you update every couple of years by Apple with their yearly upgrades. But the TV market is already defined. I just don't see the point in getting into a market where you are destined to fail. I don't see what an Apple TV set could do that the current AppleTV can't do. I think everyone has read into Steve's comments too much. I think his reinvention of a TV has nothing to do with an actual television set, and instead has to do with the AppleTV set top box, and is more along the lines of how to get programming to people, and less to do with the device they are getting it from.

Sue De Nimes
Jun 8, 2012, 10:37 AM
You'll never get XBMC while they still rely on FFmpeg for player, as its open source and will not be allowed as such into Apples ecosystem. You will most likely get Plex though, which is better anyways.

I don't know - I have used XBMC for years now and tried Plex. I went back to XBMC as the playback was much better.

I also don't see the need for the server module that Plex have gone with.

Regardless of that though I will take either Plex or XBMC on the Apple TV and dump my HTPC.

ctdonath
Jun 8, 2012, 10:39 AM
With iCloud, local storage is almost moot. Other iP* devices do need self-sufficiency when not network attached, but the :apple:TV is deeply dependent on network connectivity with the 8GB largely acting as just a buffer. Wouldn't be surprised if a user's under-utilized :apple:TV apps will drift into the cloud, re-downloaded on demand.

DTphonehome
Jun 8, 2012, 10:39 AM
Everything I read makes it seem like HBO is stubborn when bringing support to other platforms that they aren't comfortable with. I could be wrong though.

First of all, thats not true. Second, they already have an iOS app so they seem to fine with Apple. And they already have apps for other TV-connected devices.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 10:40 AM
You beat me to it. This is so obvious. I simply do not understand Apple's thinking on this subject. If this is true, better late then never but why wait so long.

You got me on that one (the wait). I agree they should have done this long ago. If they had, I think :apple:TV would have long since risen out of "hobby" status. One the major and minor holes are filled in via third party apps, I bet this becomes a very hot seller (maybe THE stocking stuffer this Christmas).

Why should we care about sales to anyone other than ourselves? By embedding tons of units in homes, the content owners drive for sales will motivate them to add more and more content to iTunes. All the griping we do about not being able to find this and that via the iTunes store will thin out should THIS become THE most popular vehicle for internet-sourced media consumption on the television.

w00master
Jun 8, 2012, 10:40 AM
You'll never get XBMC while they still rely on FFmpeg for player, as its open source and will not be allowed as such into Apples ecosystem. You will most likely get Plex though, which is better anyways.

Plex is a fork of XBMC. Just an FYI.


They don't need to bring out a full XBMC version (or Plex). As long as it can ping a file server, they could have the Mac/PC do the encoding itself.

w00master

ipedro
Jun 8, 2012, 10:41 AM
I find it more likely that Apple will update the iOS API to allow developers to program a second screen for their apps.

For example, a news App would let you read the news story on your mobile device where it is more convenient for reading while photos and video are displayed on AppleTV. A cooking app could give you the recipe on the small screen and the step by step photos on your TV. Safari Reader would give you the text to read and as you scroll down, the photos from the website would fade in on the TV.

newyorksole
Jun 8, 2012, 10:41 AM
With all these reports about Apple launching new things at WWDC, WWDC is going to be awesome:

- possibly Retina Macbook (Pro)
- iOS 6
- OS X 10.8
- Possibly all Macs updated at once (including Mac Pro)
- possibly new iPhone
- Apple TV for developers
the list goes on and on

I'm almost 100% sure that all of that is happening, but I'm still 50/50 on the iPhone. I mean, why would it leak NOW when it isn't coming out until September?

johnnyrb
Jun 8, 2012, 10:41 AM
They better introduce a new model with more RAM. You need up to 6gb of RAM just to watch a 1080p movie.

chrmjenkins
Jun 8, 2012, 10:42 AM
you know what this means right? some developers have already had access to the Apple TV SDK and will be present to demo some apps!

Perhaps. If so, Hulu Plus and HBO GO would be enough to get most people excited. I imagine all the people with players on the iPad would go to the ATV eventually too like ABC and other networks. Only questionable one is Amazon Video on Demand since it's a competing platform.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 10:42 AM
Everything I read makes it seem like HBO is stubborn when bringing support to other platforms that they aren't comfortable with. I could be wrong though.

I interpret them differently (as one of the groups most aggressive about distributing themselves in any and every way possible). What they do tend to do- which many of us won't like- is requiring a traditional (cable/satt) subscription for access to their content via devices like this. In short, they know where the bulk of their bread is buttered.

olowott
Jun 8, 2012, 10:42 AM
Good News, i always love rumours like this, bring a tear to my eye;)

Time to upgrade to 3rd generation Apple TV!!:D

nilk
Jun 8, 2012, 10:42 AM
I wouldn't get your hopes up for that one.

HBO Go is already on iOS. Why wouldn't they port it to the Apple TV?

Roller
Jun 8, 2012, 10:43 AM
If Apple does this, which I hope they do, they're going to have to revise the Apple TV UI extensively. IMO, they took a step backward with the most recent revision to the OS. It's especially important given that most users control the Apple TV using a limited-function remote, and not everyone has an iPhone or iPad with the Remote app. Additional third-party apps, whether to allow streaming video from other sources or provide other features, will only make it more challenging.

Sue De Nimes
Jun 8, 2012, 10:44 AM
They better introduce a new model with more RAM. You need up to 6gb of RAM just to watch a 1080p movie.

Nope

undies1993
Jun 8, 2012, 10:45 AM
I'm almost 100% sure that all of that is happening, but I'm still 50/50 on the iPhone. I mean, why would it leak NOW when it isn't coming out until September?

That's true. But it is just a leak.

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 10:45 AM
I don't know - I have used XBMC for years now and tried Plex. I went back to XBMC as the playback was much better.

I also don't see the need for the server module that Plex have gone with.

Regardless of that though I will take either Plex or XBMC on the Apple TV and dump my HTPC.

Plex plays fine for me, mostly does directplay anyway so no transcode. Otherwise, I keep wanting to use XBMC but it's such a pain in the butt to get configured well I just skip it and found either Boxee or Plex which was far simpler to just get working...

SwiftLives
Jun 8, 2012, 10:45 AM
Thinking out loud here...but why not gaming apps for the AppleTV?

Apple (or a third party) would need to release some sort of wifi or bluetooth controller. An iOS device wouldn't really work except as an accelerometer or gyroscope device - not ideal for repeatedly hitting buttons. Plus, the 8GB storage is kind of small.

But why should they limit themselves to video/audio apps? (And a $99 gaming device with no physical media would be killer).

atrevers
Jun 8, 2012, 10:45 AM
Why would Apple even want to build a TV set? They've already got the AppleTV, which is cheap for consumers, and it can't get traction.

Apple TV had a 32% market share in 2011, if that's not traction then I don't know what is.

why wait so long

As for why they've waited so long to release an SDK and open the development platform - I think it's so that Apple themselves have full control over the ecosystem until they've made a final decision on what form their ultimate TV market presence will take, be it through continued development of the current product or through a full-blown Apple TV set. A big advantage of this is that they can claim the "killer features" as their own rather than allow that distinction to already have gone to a 3rd party developer as and when they do introduce a full TV.

bbeagle
Jun 8, 2012, 10:46 AM
They better introduce a new model with more RAM. You need up to 6gb of RAM just to watch a 1080p movie.

No you don't. The device is meant to STREAM not DOWNLOAD the movie. You need very little RAM to stream. What you DO need RAM for is apps.

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 10:46 AM
They better introduce a new model with more RAM. You need up to 6gb of RAM just to watch a 1080p movie.

LOL, wtf are you talking about!? 6gb of ram to watch a movie??? ROTFL. I think you're confusing memory with disk storage. And it's a streaming device, minimal local storage needed for some caching

undies1993
Jun 8, 2012, 10:46 AM
If Apple does this, which I hope they do, they're going to have to revise the Apple TV UI extensively. IMO, they took a step backward with the most recent revision to the OS. It's especially important given that most users control the Apple TV using a limited-function remote, and not everyone has an iPhone or iPad with the Remote app. Additional third-party apps, whether to allow streaming video from other sources or provide other features, will only make it more challenging.

They have had time to work on it and perfect it.

Matthew Yohe
Jun 8, 2012, 10:47 AM
You'll never get XBMC while they still rely on FFmpeg for player, as its open source and will not be allowed as such into Apples ecosystem. You will most likely get Plex though, which is better anyways.

The reason is not because it's open source by the way.

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 10:48 AM
My most important App request is a SlingBox Client (now available on the STB's I do not have). Anyway, I have a Cable Box in front of my Sling Box so I have all of my Cable Channels anywhere I go with my iOS Toys. However, if there was an App on my 3 Apple TV's I could get my Cable TV on all of the TV's I only have the Apple TV which are 3 (at this point). I could also get rid of at least one of my Cable Boxes I now have. It is so much cheaper to buy a $99 Apple TV that I want anyway instead of paying monthly for a Cable Box in every room. Also, would not have to switch back and forth between by Cable Box, Apple TV and Roku Box (which will be eliminated with more channels on the Apple TV).

Beyond that I would like to only have 1 interface to all of my content that can "search". Imagine you want to watch a movie but maybe it is on HBO, MAX, Netflix, Amazon Stream, Hulu or "lastly" on Pay Per View. Takes a while to search all of these separate sources of content.

Anyway, this news if true is HUGE for me.

So Random
Jun 8, 2012, 10:48 AM
This could be VERY big.

As someone above mentioned, once Apple created the App Store for the iPhone, it changed everything, for the entire industry.

This could completely change the way we think about and use TV.

paulcdb
Jun 8, 2012, 10:48 AM
*crosses fingers*

if its true, i'd expect the apps already on the iPad to work so i think they'll be a lot of content straight away.

oh well, not long until we find out which ones are true and which ones are just put out by apple to fish out who has the big mouth :p

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 10:49 AM
Somehow I doubt all of this will be announced at WWDC. We get all these wild rumors and the actual event never lives up to them. Before the iPad event the rumors were it would have haptic feedback. Of course that never happened.

mrzeigler
Jun 8, 2012, 10:50 AM
Why not? HBO Go is on iOS, Xbox, I think ps3, etc.

HBO Go requires a subscription to HBO through a cable/satellite provider. I doubt this will change that requirement.

I sure as hell wish they would change it, but I imagine that the cable/satellite industry offers HBO enough financial incentive to not allow the consumer to bypass them ... at least not until the broadband branch of the cable industry implements a usage fee to have us pay for data transmission of HBO content if we're bypass the TV content branch of the company to get HBO.

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 10:51 AM
This could be VERY big.

As someone above mentioned, once Apple created the App Store for the iPhone, it changed everything, for the entire industry.

This could completely change the way we think about and use TV.
Hyperbole much? Do you work for Apple marketing? Yeah I'm sure Comcast and DirecTV are quaking in their boots right now. :p

undies1993
Jun 8, 2012, 10:51 AM
Somehow I doubt all of this will be announced at WWDC. We get all these wild rumors and the actual event never lives up to them. Before the iPad event the rumors were it would have haptic feedback. Of course that never happened.

I need to be wowed again. Fingers crossed for a Retina 13" MBP and Apps on the Apple TV. Those would be good enough for now with the new iPhone coming in the fall.

bbeagle
Jun 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
I still hold by the idea that a television set is NOT what they're planning.

Totally agree.

After the Apple TV puck-sized box is 'official' (and not a hobby anymore), I can see Apple creating an all-in-one device where the Apple TV unit is integrated into a display, but I cannot see forcing people to buy a display just to use the Apple TV.

Think of it. There would be very few people who would ditch their whole television set for thousands of dollars just to get an Apple branded Television Set. Apple knows this. Therefore, they need a low priced point-of-entry device for people to get 'hooked', and then roll out an integrated unit for people to use when they eventually DO retire their old television set.

Apple does this right now with the Mac Mini. It's a lower priced point of entry into the apple world.

undies1993
Jun 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
Hyperbole much? Do you work for Apple marketing? Yeah I'm sure Comcast and DirecTV are quaking in their boots right now. :p

I think he is right. It has big potential.

whooleytoo
Jun 8, 2012, 10:55 AM
I find it more likely that Apple will update the iOS API to allow developers to program a second screen for their apps.

For example, a news App would let you read the news story on your mobile device where it is more convenient for reading while photos and video are displayed on AppleTV. A cooking app could give you the recipe on the small screen and the step by step photos on your TV. Safari Reader would give you the text to read and as you scroll down, the photos from the website would fade in on the TV.

You can already do that actually. Display one screen on your iPad, and a different screen via Airplay/AppleTV on your TV.

nilk
Jun 8, 2012, 10:56 AM
I think extending the App Store model to the Apple TV is the only natural path for the Apple TV to go, at least if Apple wants to be serious about it and not keep it as a hobby.

Even if they come out with an Apple-branded TV set, I don't think they will kill off the set-top box. Apple TV is to the Mac Mini, what an Apple-branded TV set is to the iMac.

8GB won't be a problem for the Apple TV. Video streaming applications don't take up much space as they are just fairly simple UI and some code to handle streaming, which doesn't take up much space. It's not like they have huge libraries that come along with them, like GarageBand, for example. Now if they intend for this to be a gaming platform, then yeah, we might see larger-sized storage options in a future Apple TV. But even then there will be large portion of the market that doesn't care about games and just wants more streaming video and audio options (I fall into that category), and 8GB will be fine for these people.

The other way they might require more storage is if they allow apps to store media locally. It would be nice to have this option in case your internet connection isn't reliable. Even if they moved away from this from the original Apple TV, they may start moving back in that direction to be able to make more profit on more expensive models with more storage.

andrewzz
Jun 8, 2012, 10:56 AM
Finally!!! come out with some controller hardware, video game developers jump on board, bye bye xbox!!! hello iTV!!

iTube

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 10:57 AM
As for why they've waited so long to release an SDK and open the development platform - I think it's so that Apple themselves have full control over the ecosystem until they've made a final decision on what form their ultimate TV market presence will take, be it through continued development of the current product or through a full-blown Apple TV set. A big advantage of this is that they can claim the "killer features" as their own rather than allow that distinction to already have gone to a 3rd party developer as and when they do introduce a full TV.

While I can somewhat agree with your thinking here, I'll point out that the alternative is to do what they're doing with iPhone: all apps must be submitted to Apple and Apple takes a good look at them before approving them. The bulk of the "killer feature" of iPhone 4s was developed by a third party. Apple then bought what became Siri. This model would make it possible to have tons of free labor (developers) innovating stuff that Apple can't even think of in isolation and then Apple could pick & choose those to try to buy out (and brand as Apple) rather than roll them out branded to the developers.

What would this accomplish? A much faster pace of development & launch of a stream of "killer" features rather than the relatively tepid pace of new features launched via in-house innovation since 2007. Think about it. The first :apple:TV hit in 2007. For 5 years now, Apple has completely owned the development for it. What "killer" innovations for this little box have come out (of Apple) over those 5 years? Dolby Digital is a 1992 audio standard. 720p as implemented in the original was a near minimalist claim to "HD". 1080p- while terrific- arrived what seems like about 3+ years later than ideal. Airplay is great. Anything else?

Now, if this rumor comes to pass at WWDC, I would bet that in just 6 months, we'll see more killer features added by third parties than we got from Apple exclusive control over the last 5 years. I'm pretty well versed in this particular stuff and I expect the third parties will fully blow my mind with what they bring as "killer" apps.

bbeagle
Jun 8, 2012, 10:59 AM
Hyperbole much? Do you work for Apple marketing? Yeah I'm sure Comcast and DirecTV are quaking in their boots right now. :p

Comcast and DirecTV should be taking the Apple TV seriously.

There are 5 families in my circle who have now 'cut the cord' and use a combination of over-the-air TV (with Tivo DVRs), Apple TVs. This is all because of them upset at the cost of cable, and seeing our free solution since 2009. If it weren't for me showing them what is possible out there, they would still be with cable. I talk to people every day who don't understand that television can be much cheaper, and there are devices out there (not necessarily Apple TV, but Tivo and Roku as well). Most people don't know this, or think it's too complicated to switch.

I think once Apple's marketing arm gets this out there, Comcast, Time/Warner, DirecTV, etc. will be in trouble. Funny thing is, this will be a complete roll reversal. Apple will be going for the cheap/less features television crowd while Comcast, T/W, DirecTV, etc. will be going for the more expensive/more features crowd.

FaustsHausUK
Jun 8, 2012, 11:00 AM
I don't really understand the real purpose of apps on your TV. Also the ATV has a very small amount of storage (8gb?).

I think what makes more sense is to have "companion" apps on your iPhone/iPad that can send a secondary screen to the TV and then use the iOS device to control the TV.. Similar (I think) to that smartglass thing microsoft announed.

edit: I know this can kind of already be accomplished (on a few games), but I think apple could really develop the capability and add a new "Apple TV" section to the App store. Also, just to note, I think these apps should be standalone apps for the iOS device also, but then a press of the airplay button would turn it into a companion app.

Supporting apps would place it squarely in competition with the Xbox 360. The entry level model of which comes with 4GB of storage, 1/4 of the Apple TV's 16GB.

Granted, the Xbox 360 is a far more powerful and capable gaming machine, but iOS has played host to many fantastic games that do not need the capabilities of a dedicated gaming system.

One area where Microsoft are really charging forward is in the video content space. There are apps for Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon Instant Video, Vudu, YouTube, Vimeo, ESPN, various sporting leagues, Nickelodeon, Xfinity, HBO GO and many, many more. Apple TV being open to apps would allow iOS's range of video apps to be ported and make the device stiffer competition for Microsoft.

Microsoft clearly sees this move coming: they recently announced a subscription supported $100 Xbox 360/Kinect/Xbox Live Gold bundle. That price tag is clearly to help it compete against the Apple TV.

Mad Mac Maniac
Jun 8, 2012, 11:01 AM
Am I the only one wondering why they would continue development on the AppleTV box if an Apple-branded TV set is (supposedly) just around the corner? Seems to me that this rumor makes the TV rumor a little less likely.

if Apple were to release an iTV it would obviously run the same OS as the :apple:TV. It makes sense to continue beefing up the OS in preparation. Especially if Apple wants to make an app store for the iTV. Now there are millions of :apple:TV's all over the world that will give a greater incentive to devs. Can you imagine if apple said "Ok devs, start making some apps for this $1,500-$2,000 tv that I'm gonna be releasing in a few months. I have no idea how successful it'll be, but give it a shot!"

People go where the apps are, apps are built where the people are. If you start out at zero it's kinda tough to get either one.


Hulu Plus is a good example. I would rather have the app running on the Apple TV instead of tying up my iPad streaming the content.

Sure, 8GB is small by today's standards but there are plenty of usable iPhones out there with 8GB so it isn't unreasonable.

Smartglass? You mean like AirPlay from an iPad? ;)

No I don't mean like airplay, at least not how it's currently being used. Airplay mirrors your screen or pushing video content. Yes it has the right basic idea, but it can be majorly improved upon even if it's just a matter of Apple creating better developer tools.

And it wouldn't occupy your iPad. If you've used Airplay you know that you can start a video and then leave the app or even sleep the device. The iPad/iPhone would simply be used as a remote to boot up the content, then do whatever you want. Have you used netflix on your :apple:tv? Now have you used netflix on your iPad? HUGE difference in usability.

So I have to buy an iPhone/iPad/Mac to get the CTV app so I can watch the Daily Show?

Or just download the exact same app onto the iTV?

I choose option 2.

Do you not own an iPhone, iPad, iPod touch or Mac? If not, I'm not really sure what you are doing here. In fact I would venture a guess that less than 1% of all people who have bought the Apple TV don't own any of the above devices. I mean what is the purpose of it then?

What is the one thing I ALWAYS have on me at all times. my iPhone. What is the one thing I can never find. The TV remote. Now I will always know where my remote is, and if I can't find it I'll use the alert feature of "find my iPhone".

balamw
Jun 8, 2012, 11:02 AM
First of all, thats not true. Second, they already have an iOS app so they seem to fine with Apple. And they already have apps for other TV-connected devices.

The caveat is that HBO GO requires a traditional HBO subscription. This is how they protect their existing agreements with cable providers.

B

Richdmoore
Jun 8, 2012, 11:02 AM
Why do you need so much storage? Up until the iPhone 3gs, they came with 8gb and now when they release a new phone you can get the old phone in 8gb. I don't really see storage as an issue.

True, less storage would be needed as most of mine is taken up with music on the iPhone, and movies on the iPad, which would not be needed. I think of it as more future-proofing than anything.

On the other hand, several games (nova 3, modern combat 3, rage hd) are now taking over a gig of storage each, so 8gb would be limiting if gaming takes off in the aTV 3.

whooleytoo
Jun 8, 2012, 11:02 AM
8GB is quite a limitation. I wonder what option they'll take:

- Ship ATVs with more storage. Use apps to drive ATVs-with-more-storage sales!
- ATV apps are effectively downloaded on the fly. With modern broadband speeds and if app sizes are kept small, it might not introduce too much of a delay.
- Home Sharing shares apps instead of just music & video. When you launch it, it's pulled down from your local Home Sharing server.

It'd be great if this is (partly) to help make Airplay-enabled games avoid the significant latency with Airplay gameplay. Maybe they'll even let the ATV create an ad-hoc Wifi network in that scenario, that could help reduce the latency quite a bit.

Kaibelf
Jun 8, 2012, 11:02 AM
Finally!!! come out with some controller hardware, video game developers jump on board, bye bye xbox!!! hello iTV!!

A gamepad for some games, and for more basic ones, just using ipod touch/iphone/ipad as controllers? Could be cool! :eek:

foodog
Jun 8, 2012, 11:07 AM
I still hold by the idea that a television set is NOT what they're planning. I think the "cracked" format is the current Apple TV. They're cheap, upgradable and gives a user freedom to do what they will with their tv screen. Imagine having an obsolete tv in 3 years and having to buy a new one. That's not a perfect solution, therefore, not apple.

Me too. I have absolutely no desire to buy a new TV. Sell me a new ATV4 with lots more capabilities.

atrevers
Jun 8, 2012, 11:08 AM
While I can somewhat agree with your thinking here, I'll point out that the alternative is to do what they're doing with iPhone: all apps must be submitted to Apple and Apple takes a good look at them before approving them. The bulk of the "killer feature" of iPhone 4s was developed by a third party. Apple then bought what became Siri. This model would make it possible to have tons of free labor (developers) innovating stuff that Apple can't even think of in isolation and then Apple could pick & choose those to try to buy out (and brand as Apple) rather than roll them out branded to the developers.

Can't argue with you on that, but the iPhone SDK came after the iPhone had been on the market for several weeks - they'd already had the fanfare for the device itself. My thinking is that by delaying the TV SDK, it means that if they release a full TV set, they'll take the fanfare for themselves (with one or two big name partners involved) at product launch, rather than a much smaller "look, you've had all this functionality and apps for ages - now here's a screen to display them on!" - in that case, may as well stick a tuner in an update to the current Apple TV and put an HDMI port on the Cinema Displays and "hey presto" - full Apple TV with minimal development cost. I just don't think that's the Apple way of doing things though...

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 11:09 AM
On the other hand, several games (nova 3, modern combat 3, rage hd) are now taking over a gig of storage each, so 8gb would be limiting if gaming takes off in the aTV 3.

Such apps could be stored on the computer and streamed over when needed... just like a movie collection. :apple:TV is different than all of it's iDevice cousins in that it generally is a stationary device. It will typically just stay home and thus always have a live connection to either a computer running iTunes and/or iCloud. Thus, there is little need to store apps on it. You just need working space for whatever is to be shown on screen at the time (movie, tv show, podcast or game).

By how it is typically used, it also has less reason for needing much multitasking (which can be memory hungry). Unlike- say- an iPhone where you might need to hop from- say- Skype to Safari to Mail, etc, this little box is more of a one-thing-at-a-time consumption device: watch 1 movie, play 1 game, have 1 videoconference, etc.

It makes great sense to worry about storage with the other iDevices because they go out with us and don't always have access to our home computer and/or iCloud. But this is a different iDevice.

Note (all that said): I very much miss the 1st gen benefit of "big local storage"- especially the jailbreak option of being able to hook up a huge hard drive via the USB port. I'd love to see the normalization of that USB port come with this SDK so that some app software plus hardware add-on options could come to pass too.

ChrisA
Jun 8, 2012, 11:10 AM
.... I think the "cracked" format is the current Apple TV. They're cheap, upgradable and gives a user freedom to do what they will with their tv screen. Imagine having an obsolete tv in 3 years and having to buy a new one. That's not a perfect solution, therefore, not apple.


I guess you've never seen an iMac. Every three years you have to toss out a perfectly good 27" monitor.

Sue De Nimes
Jun 8, 2012, 11:12 AM
Plex plays fine for me, mostly does directplay anyway so no transcode. Otherwise, I keep wanting to use XBMC but it's such a pain in the butt to get configured well I just skip it and found either Boxee or Plex which was far simpler to just get working...

At the moment I have an OpenELEC install on my HTPC. There was no setup involved other than pointing it at the shares on my network and telling it to output sound over HDMI. It took 5mins to setup and that was it.

adildacoolset
Jun 8, 2012, 11:13 AM
WWDC is going to be packed with all of these announcements - not sure they will all come to light.

Mr. glass-half-empty, I see

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 11:13 AM
Comcast and DirecTV should be taking the Apple TV seriously.

There are 5 families in my circle who have now 'cut the cord' and use a combination of over-the-air TV (with Tivo DVRs), Apple TVs. This is all because of them upset at the cost of cable, and seeing our free solution since 2009. If it weren't for me showing them what is possible out there, they would still be with cable. I talk to people every day who don't understand that television can be much cheaper, and there are devices out there (not necessarily Apple TV, but Tivo and Roku as well). Most people don't know this, or think it's too complicated to switch.

I think once Apple's marketing arm gets this out there, Comcast, Time/Warner, DirecTV, etc. will be in trouble. Funny thing is, this will be a complete roll reversal. Apple will be going for the cheap/less features television crowd while Comcast, T/W, DirecTV, etc. will be going for the more expensive/more features crowd.
What's Apple going to do that will make me want to give up my DirecTV? I have any channel I want plus boat loads of sports programming. I have HD DVR with a simple/slick interface. I haven't heard or seen anything yet that would make me switch to Apple TV.

ipedro
Jun 8, 2012, 11:14 AM
8GB won't be a problem for the Apple TV. Video streaming applications don't take up much space as they are just fairly simple UI and some code to handle streaming, which doesn't take up much space. It's not like they have huge libraries that come along with them, like GarageBand, for example. Now if they intend for this to be a gaming platform, then yeah, we might see larger-sized storage options in a future Apple TV. But even then there will be large portion of the market that doesn't care about games and just wants more streaming video and audio options (I fall into that category), and 8GB will be fine for these people.

Games on discs still have loading time. Just like a movie and tv show is downloaded before each play on the AppleTV 2 and 3, a game could be too.

Apple can also limit the amount of on board code necessary by providing specific API's for video streaming, menus, gaming engines and other frequently used code and assets.

Sheppard
Jun 8, 2012, 11:14 AM
Now I wonder with updates to the icloud, streaming will become available to the ATV??

This will finally free me away from Microsoft's grip. After Monday, I will be taking delivery of a refreshed or refurb MBP, ATV3 and a big smile on my face!

faroZ06
Jun 8, 2012, 11:14 AM
Now THIS I might buy.

newyorksole
Jun 8, 2012, 11:15 AM
That's true. But it is just a leak.

But leaks don't happen until a product is getting ready to ship. Apple is VERY good at keeping products under wraps, but when it comes to mass production it's inevitable.

ChrisA
Jun 8, 2012, 11:15 AM
On the other hand, several games (nova 3, modern combat 3, rage hd) are now taking over a gig of storage each, so 8gb would be limiting if gaming takes off in the aTV 3.

Think of the 8GB of storage in the ATV is a "cache". Nothing is permanently stored there. The data are moved from either a local computer of an Apple server farm. The software figures out what it can trash if it needs more room. It trashes the data you are lead likely to use next.

faroZ06
Jun 8, 2012, 11:16 AM
Hyperbole much? Do you work for Apple marketing? Yeah I'm sure Comcast and DirecTV are quaking in their boots right now. :p

The Apple TV doesn't provide any of the shows that cable does, so it's not even a competitor with Comcast and DirecTV unless you count the movie rentals. They should add a coax input for antenna and cable with recording ability.

foodog
Jun 8, 2012, 11:16 AM
Comcast and DirecTV should be taking the Apple TV seriously.

There are 5 families in my circle who have now 'cut the cord' and use a combination of over-the-air TV (with Tivo DVRs), Apple TVs. This is all because of them upset at the cost of cable, and seeing our free solution since 2009. If it weren't for me showing them what is possible out there, they would still be with cable. I talk to people every day who don't understand that television can be much cheaper, and there are devices out there (not necessarily Apple TV, but Tivo and Roku as well). Most people don't know this, or think it's too complicated to switch.

I think once Apple's marketing arm gets this out there, Comcast, Time/Warner, DirecTV, etc. will be in trouble. Funny thing is, this will be a complete roll reversal. Apple will be going for the cheap/less features television crowd while Comcast, T/W, DirecTV, etc. will be going for the more expensive/more features crowd.

My story is the same. When I tell people i have no cable the first reaction is disbelief. I ask what they watch on TV, if they say lots of live sports shows then I say the solution will not work for you.... yet. If, like me, they mostly watch broadcast TV shows and a few others. I explain the glory of TiVo, Netflix, and ATV with an antenna. Showtime and HBO shows end up on Netflix the following year. I wait until then. Everything else is either bought through iTunes or recorded by TiVo. The only costs now are the Netflix subscription. My TiVo's are lifetime subscription.

marksman
Jun 8, 2012, 11:16 AM
The time has been right for years. Could you imagine where the iPhone would be today if they never created the App Store for it. Now imagine what would have happened if they had released the App Store along with the Apple TV 2.

If this is true, then hard times are ahead for all of the other STB's on the market today.
This does open up possibilities. Adding apps in the apple ecosystem would likely grow the apple tv base many fold. At that point they actually have real leverage with content providers and could actually usher in a new model and dynamic for tv content. It apple can leverage apps to get them 10-15 million installed users they could really make some noise for content. Very old figures have me thinking hbo might have 30-35 million subscriibers. I vaguely recall Netflix being in the 17-20 million range. Heck most satellite and cable companies are in that range. With 10 million installed apple TVs they become a real part of the distribution market. This seems like a great way to get there.

jimbojsb
Jun 8, 2012, 11:17 AM
I still hold by the idea that a television set is NOT what they're planning. I think the "cracked" format is the current Apple TV. They're cheap, upgradable and gives a user freedom to do what they will with their tv screen. Imagine having an obsolete tv in 3 years and having to buy a new one. That's not a perfect solution, therefore, not apple.

Obviously you're not familiar with the 27" iMac with it's $1000 integrated cinema display that becomes trash when then computer components are outdated.

daneoni
Jun 8, 2012, 11:18 AM
'Bout freakin' time!

newyorksole
Jun 8, 2012, 11:18 AM
Somehow I doubt all of this will be announced at WWDC. We get all these wild rumors and the actual event never lives up to them. Before the iPad event the rumors were it would have haptic feedback. Of course that never happened.

Usually I'd agree with this, but it makes sense for them to announce this stuff now.

With the AppleTV's last UI change, Apple basically gave it away that apps are coming for it. With the TV Set rumors ramping up also, I don't think any of this is a coincidence.

smithrh
Jun 8, 2012, 11:18 AM
Everything I read makes it seem like HBO is stubborn when bringing support to other platforms that they aren't comfortable with. I could be wrong though.

They're already on iOS big time.

Now - I'd say this - I don't expect them to change their subscription model yet. That is, to access content, you'll still need to be a subscriber from cable or sat.

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 11:19 AM
HBO Go requires a subscription to HBO through a cable/satellite provider. I doubt this will change that requirement.Of course it would be nice to be able to subscribe to HBO without having to buy a CABLE Package if you do not want too, but that is not what we are saying. We are saying to provide the same options that you have on the iOS Device (and XBOX and Roku) on the Apple TV. HBO Go and MAX Go are just two examples.

Part of the problem with Cable is the rental fees for the boxes. With a 5 bedroom house and kitchen and living room and TV Room these boxes can be much more expensive the the content.

Regarding Content. We will need to pay for it one way or the other. If you can get all of the content over the internet as bundled packages (not free) from say Apple or Hulu or Intel (reading about it today) then my Internet Connection Charge will most likely go up or be limited (like with our Phone Data Planes - Some Cable Companies already do it). I am going to want all of the Network Channels and all of the Business Channels and Comedy Central and Golf Channel and others. If I dropped most of my Cable Boxes and some of the Premium Movie Channels I could save a lot of money and still keep Cable. It may not be all Cable or no Cable. There are options in between.

convergent
Jun 8, 2012, 11:19 AM
This is great news if it comes to be. For those of you hoping for XBMC or Plex, I think you are going to be disappointed. Both would be unnecessary if you could add apps directly to the ATV. Imagine an app store like on the iOS devices, where you can buy apps like MLB.tv. So rather than buying a cable package, you buy subscriptions for the individual channels you want to watch. MLB.tv is the model to me of how the content providers can do it right.

And, I assume there will be all kinds of other apps, games, etc.. If they work out the user interface, there's no reason why most apps on iOS couldn't be deployed on ATV.

gugy
Jun 8, 2012, 11:19 AM
The rumor mill is putting too much out there. It seems this is going to be the greatest WWDC ever. Pretty sure so many people will be disappointed and blame Apple.
I would say if we get 50% what has been said so far we will be lucky.

Robin4
Jun 8, 2012, 11:20 AM
*crosses fingers*

if its true, i'd expect the apps already on the iPad to work so i think they'll be a lot of content straight away.

oh well, not long until we find out which ones are true and which ones are just put out by apple to fish out who has the big mouth :p

This may be true. My iPad has been acting up a bit the last few days. It always does prior to a major upgrade.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 11:20 AM
What's Apple going to do that will make me want to give up my DirecTV? I have any channel I want plus boat loads of sports programming. I have HD DVR with a simple/slick interface. I haven't heard or seen anything yet that would make me switch to Apple TV.

Live programming (and local) have long been the "cut the cable/satt" fly in the ointment. Paired with the fact that an :apple:TV cable killer replacement solution will typically have heavy dependencies on broadband pipes owned by those same cable TV providers and the typical dream becomes much more complicated.

I've thought it through again and again and I don't foresee a scenario where the dream as most popularly imagined comes to pass... that is, I don't see Apple replacing mainstream cable/satt with commercial-free programming of "only what I want to watch" at a cost of about 5% to 20% of "what I'm paying now for cable/satt". If there is a lot of progress in that direction, look for our broadband pricing to go up significantly for "heavy users" (to wash out the "savings"). And note that just killing off the commercials alone (which are other people's money paying for the development of the programming that we can watch for free or near free) would require a subscription price of about $54/month per U.S. household to hold the revenue line "as is". The typical dream scenario involves an Apple subscription of about $30/month or less (and note such an option would probably involve Apple taking their 30% right off the top).

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 11:21 AM
The rumor mill is putting too much out there. It seems this is going to be the greatest WWDC ever. Pretty sure so many people will be disappointed and blame Apple.
I would say if we get 50% what has been said so far we will be lucky.
Agreed. No way are we getting ML iOS 6 Apple TV SDK new Macs and a new iPhone next week. apple wont't shoot its wad all in one day.

peterh988
Jun 8, 2012, 11:22 AM
you know what this means right? some developers have already had access to the Apple TV SDK and will be present to demo some apps!

Read this on a blog a few days ago.

"If you’re going for the iOS version, you’ll notice it is universal for iPhone and iPad. We’re going to convert it for use on the Apple TV as soon as it accepts apps"

Thought it was just wishful thinking, but maybe they're expecting it to happen.

bbeagle
Jun 8, 2012, 11:23 AM
What's Apple going to do that will make me want to give up my DirecTV? I have any channel I want plus boat loads of sports programming. I have HD DVR with a simple/slick interface. I haven't heard or seen anything yet that would make me switch to Apple TV.

I think you're still thinking in terms of 'channels' and 'changing channels'. I think Apple wants to make the television more 'program centered' instead of 'channel centered'.

You'll have an app like 'NFL', where you can see all the NFL games in progress, move to any of the games you'd like, see standings, see press conferences, news stories, see any old footage. All while surfing your iPad as the control. It's different than remembering, oh, 701 is this channel, 705 is this one, etc. etc. and ALL the relevant information is available because we're connected to the INTERNET not just a DirecTV channel. Plus, it will be able to customize everything to your favorite team. If your favorite team is, god help me, the Dallas Cowboys, then you will see a little star in the corner of the screen, with relevant Dallas Cowboy / NFC East information and things like facebook messages or tweets for/against Tony Romo.

You've got to open up your mind and be creative. The current Apple TV is not there yet. Currently, DirecTV is a better choice - if you have the money. But, I can imagine and see what might lie ahead that is so much better. I'm not stuck in the past and an Apple hater. I'm more willing to broaden my horizon. (I'm not an Apple lover either - if anyone pulls off this vision I support them - I'll buy a Microsoft TV if that is the best thing out there - but I can't see any other company as future-thinking as Apple)

Rocketman
Jun 8, 2012, 11:25 AM
Since Apple seems to centrally focus the content ecosystem on prevention of piracy, and most 3rd party boxes and software installs are less focused on that, we may see apps which are effectively APIs for say attaching to a Comcast or DirecTV system or apps that compliment existing content owners and distributors. I think the TV OS ecosystem will likely be more "locked down" than most.

Rocketman

paradox00
Jun 8, 2012, 11:25 AM
Hyperbole much? Do you work for Apple marketing? Yeah I'm sure Comcast and DirecTV are quaking in their boots right now. :p

Don't kid yourself, they are terrified of online streaming. It's a huge threat to their cable business. Cable companies are like wagon manufacturers in a era where Henry Ford is about to release the Model T, a car for the masses.

patsfan83
Jun 8, 2012, 11:26 AM
HBO Go is already on iOS. Why wouldn't they port it to the Apple TV?

Because you can't view it on your TV. They locked off Airplay so you can't stream (dumb, I know).

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 11:26 AM
Live programming (and local) have long been the "cut the cable/satt" fly in the ointment. Paired with the fact that an :apple:TV cable killer replacement solution will typically have heavy dependencies on broadband pipes owned by those same cable TV providers and the typical dream becomes much more complicated.

I've thought it through again and again and I don't foresee a scenario where the dream as most popularly imagined comes to pass... that is, I don't see Apple replacing mainstream cable/satt with commercial-free programming of "only what I want to watch" at a cost of about 5% to 20% of "what I'm paying now for cable/satt". If there is a lot of progress in that direction, look for our broadband pricing to go up significantly for "heavy users" (to wash out the "savings"). And note that just killing off the commercials alone (which are other people's money paying for the development of the programming that we can watch for free or near free) would require a subscription price of about $54/month per U.S. household to hold the revenue line "as is". The typical dream scenario involves an Apple subscription of about $30/month or less (and note such an option would probably involve Apple taking their 30% right off the top).
I thought I heard Dish Network was being sued for their service which cuts out commercials from DVR'd programs. I know Apple revolutionized the music industry with iTunes but TV will be a much tougher nut to crack. With the music industry they had to do something because they were being ripped off by illegal file sharing. Can't really say the same with TV.

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 11:26 AM
At the moment I have an OpenELEC install on my HTPC. There was no setup involved other than pointing it at the shares on my network and telling it to output sound over HDMI. It took 5mins to setup and that was it.

I have been meaning to try that out, then I saw the warning of the installer requiring me to unplug all my hard drives as it tends to wipe them out during the creation of the bootable USb key? :(

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 11:28 AM
The Apple TV doesn't provide any of the shows that cable does, so it's not even a competitor with Comcast and DirecTV unless you count the movie rentals. They should add a coax input for antenna and cable with recording ability.

The coax input days are long gone. Everything is digital now and digitally encrypted. There was an effort called "cable card" aimed at making all cable system video accessible via third party boxes by plugging in a "key" card. However, the industry worked well to insure that THAT solution was painful... at best.

To go where you suggest might be something possible by building in an HDMI IN jack so that a cable box could do the decrypting and then pass the signal out of that box and into the :apple:TV. However, there's also a bunch of hoops to jump there too (but it would be the more likely way toward accomplishing what you are suggesting). Basically, the key is that you would need the signal decryption done BEFORE it gets to the :apple:TV. Else you would need Apple making deals with all of the cable companies to try to build cable box decrypting INSIDE the box and why would the cable companies want to help Apple replace their cable boxes (usually rented) with one box (to rule them all)?

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 11:29 AM
I think you're still thinking in terms of 'channels' and 'changing channels'. I think Apple wants to make the television more 'program centered' instead of 'channel centered'.

You'll have an app like 'NFL', where you can see all the NFL games in progress, move to any of the games you'd like, see standings, see press conferences, news stories, see any old footage. All while surfing your iPad as the control. It's different than remembering, oh, 701 is this channel, 705 is this one, etc. etc. and ALL the relevant information is available because we're connected to the INTERNET not just a DirecTV channel. Plus, it will be able to customize everything to your favorite team. If your favorite team is, god help me, the Dallas Cowboys, then you will see a little star in the corner of the screen, with relevant Dallas Cowboy / NFC East information and things like facebook messages or tweets for/against Tony Romo.

You've got to open up your mind and be creative. The current Apple TV is not there yet. Currently, DirecTV is a better choice - if you have the money. But, I can imagine and see what might lie ahead that is so much better. I'm not stuck in the past and an Apple hater. I'm more willing to broaden my horizon. (I'm not an Apple lover either - if anyone pulls off this vision I support them - I'll buy a Microsoft TV if that is the best thing out there - but I can't see any other company as future-thinking as Apple)
I'll believe it when I see it. Right now it's just a lot of people projecting on to Apple what they want to see.

patsfan83
Jun 8, 2012, 11:30 AM
I guess you've never seen an iMac. Every three years you have to toss out a perfectly good 27" monitor.

It doesn't work after 3 years? Can't resell it?

skuid87
Jun 8, 2012, 11:30 AM
THIS is the announcement that I've been waiting for ever since I got my hands on the ATV2. That little puck has SO much potential. Been there every step with the community developers as the device was jailbroken and reverse engineered to get Plex up and running. We've come a long way since then...

Just imagine the possibilities that would open up if Apple release an SDK. This could really open up the AppleTV and set it apart as a new Killer product.

I remember watching the E3 Demo for WiiU last year... it was so infuriating that they were touting it as revolutionary when Apple had already accomplished this with Airplay! Granted, its the other way around (iPad streaming to AppleTV instead), but Real Racing was a great example of having the action on the TV set, and lap times/map on the iPad, which also acted as a controller.

If the AppleTV could take some of the processing burden away from the iPad and run the Apps natively, a LOT more could be accomplished!

Hands down the best announcement that could come out of WWDC. Really hope it happens.

**Fingers crossed**

Sue De Nimes
Jun 8, 2012, 11:30 AM
I have been meaning to try that out, then I saw the warning of the installer requiring me to unplug all my hard drives as it tends to wipe them out during the creation of the bootable USb key? :(

That was a bug in the installed in earlier versions. It only really applies if you have a drive connected to your HTPC that isn't going to be installed and formatted anyway.

I have OpenELEC running from a USB stick and no HDD in my HTPC. I have all my media on a WHS server.

mdntcallr
Jun 8, 2012, 11:31 AM
I have 3 apple tv's and 1 Roku, and as a roku owner, i welcome a more open Apple TV.

Content on Roku is king, they allow third party channels to be added without restriction on content. THis is a welcome shift from Apple's approach which runs from protection of the itunes movie/tv store to simple censorship.

On Roku, you can add things like tv channels, independent content like Glenn Beck/Alex Jones... other things like indie channels of radio, tv, heck even adult content like Fyre Tv (if thats your bag).

the owner of the units can decide what to watch instead of being limited by the technology.

also, on roku you can play games, like angry birds.

But... the big differential is that on Roku you have a micro sd slot, so you can add capacity for content, channels and programs. Apple TV, right now you can't add any memory... this would be great to upgrade, but you know apple... sometimes they skimp on things like slots that cost an extra buck or two. here. it would be great if it was like Roku. expandable.

dagamer34
Jun 8, 2012, 11:31 AM
8GB of flash storage on current Apple TVs is small enough that I wouldn't expect games, just video streaming services. I also don't think this will be open to the public, you'll probably need to apply to get access to these SDKs.

magikgeek
Jun 8, 2012, 11:32 AM
If we can get some XMBC and Plex action like this on the 1080p Apple TV and not worry about jailbreaking I'll buy 3.

I would buy 4 for me and 2 for my parents and 1 for my in-laws.

smithrh
Jun 8, 2012, 11:34 AM
Because you can't view it on your TV. They locked off Airplay so you can't stream (dumb, I know).

Airplay being blocked was an anti-piracy move.

Since ATV sends its output over HDMI... it's not a concern.

CaryMacGuy
Jun 8, 2012, 11:34 AM
I would replace my PS3 in a heartbeat but there is one piece of the puzzle that AppleTV cannot fix. What about all those Blu-rays and DVDs I have. I would love if Apple sold an add on Blu-Ray/DVD unit (similar to the external DVD drive for the Macbook Air). Combine Apple TV apps with an iPhone 5 and AirPlay mirroring (especially game play) and we have a sweet solution and a sweet gaming console.

sulpfiction
Jun 8, 2012, 11:35 AM
I think this is what SJ was referring to....Not an actual TV. ATV will be the future of television. All content can be purchased through 3rd party apps for every network and cable company out there.

And there still might be an actual TV set. But I think the whole "cracking" of the TV problem is through the ATV hockey puck.

Drew n macs
Jun 8, 2012, 11:35 AM
This is a game changer... The possibilites are endless. As others stated hulu plus etc cleans up tv cabinet no major reason to have a computer at tv station plus with mountain lion comming with airplay.

myrtlebee
Jun 8, 2012, 11:35 AM
Mr. glass-half-empty, I see

No, Mr. Reality - it's an unfortunate curse - wish I could be optimistic, but damn reality always gets in the way!

heisenberg123
Jun 8, 2012, 11:35 AM
not sure if its as good as news as some hope, i dont expect them to start allowing "jailbroken" type channels, look how fast VLC player was pulled from the app store for iOS devices, so i dont expect Plex or XBMC type apps coming to appletv.


I expect things like Weather Channels, Sports Apps(ie ESPN, ScoreMobile) Stocks, Facebook, Twitter,

roland.g
Jun 8, 2012, 11:35 AM
I kind of like the way the Apple TV is now, with limited apps. Sure there are things it doesn't have I'd like to see built in or added, but the problem with an Apple TV iOS App Store section is that it gets flooded with stuff that is mostly garbage or versions of the same thing. Obviously like an iPhone/iPad you have the choice of what to buy, load, remove.

I can say I wouldn't mind the ability to rearrange apps on the Apple TV icon screen, but my guess is Apple won't offer the ability to hide the ones I won't ever use. Why clutter up with what I don't need.

URFloorMatt
Jun 8, 2012, 11:36 AM
Agreed. No way are we getting ML iOS 6 Apple TV SDK new Macs and a new iPhone next week. apple wont't shoot its wad all in one day.There won't be a new iPhone; i really wish people would stop saying that. And they can roll the Apple TV SDK into their iOS 6 presentation.

Here's how it will happen. For iOS 6, we're adding these six to eight new tent pole features. Plus, we're bringing Siri to iPad and we're announcing a new SDK for the Apple TV as part of iOS 6.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they said, We're also pleased to announce that HBO Go and Watch ESPN are coming now to Apple TV. Those two have been making the rounds lately, and about the only place they aren't available is the Apple TV.

bbeagle
Jun 8, 2012, 11:36 AM
I'll believe it when I see it. Right now it's just a lot of people projecting on to Apple what they want to see.

Apple is the only company I know in the tech space that is innovating. They have a clear goal of what they want to do, and focus on it. There is no profit motive, which is ironically, why they are so profitable.

Every other company in the tech space throws a bunch of things at the wall to see what sticks, and only keeps what makes money.

An Apple fan is one who can imagine. You're bullying people who are thinking of new possibilities. That's the exact opposite of a person who dreams big. When Apple does release a product, give a critique then, but to say that DirecTV is the epiphany of television in our lifetimes? Come on!

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 11:38 AM
I thought I heard Dish Network was being sued for their service which cuts out commercials from DVR'd programs. I know Apple revolutionized the music industry with iTunes but TV will be a much tougher nut to crack. With the music industry they had to do something because they were being ripped off by illegal file sharing. Can't really say the same with TV.

DISH is being sued for the commercial skipping feature in their DVRs. I guess it got too easy to jump over the commercials. I just referenced the "no commercials" part because that is often part of the same "Apple replacement solution" dream. We're so quick to want to be rid of the commercials but we're usually not recognizing that they are how much of what we want to watch gets funded. It's like the casual suggestion of "free wifi". There is no free wifi- just someone else (like Starbucks, McDonalds, etc) choosing to pay for it on our behalf in hopes we'll buy enough coffee or burgers to justify their strategy. Commercials cover a lot of the cost of developing the shows we want to watch. In the Apple replacement dream, if there are no commercials, then it's just Production Studios + Apple + Us. Who among the latter 2 would have to make up the difference in cost in a no-commercials model? And that difference is far from the typical $5 to $10/month thrown around as "what I want to pay for just the stuff I actually watch").

And yes, I think the music industry example was one in which THAT industry basically had to try many things (for which iTunes quickly rose to the top). Unfortunately, Apple really put the pinch on that industry once it dominated it which now works against Apple trying to somewhat replicate that approach with the video industry.

The video guys saw how it was for their music-industry cousins and have NO desire to get as deeply under Apple's thumb. I suspect this is why Apple's video pricing is generally not that great. For example, it makes just about NO sense that a person can buy the Blu Ray disc of a movie for less than an iTunes rental. That's permanent ownership vs. one-time use, with various distributors and a retailer getting their cut vs a single point of distribution and retailer (in one). But I think that shows the lengths at which the video side will go to keep Apple from gaining dominant control over their content similar to how Apple dominates music.

pink thing
Jun 8, 2012, 11:38 AM
If this happens, and I can get Plex on Apple TV officially, I will turn in my HTPC.

I won't. Not until it supports mkv ;)

skuid87
Jun 8, 2012, 11:39 AM
not sure if its as good as news as some hope, i dont expect them to start allowing "jailbroken" type channels, look how fast VLC player was pulled from the app store for iOS devices, so i dont expect Plex or XBMC type apps coming to appletv.

Plex is already an iOS App and has been for quite some time. It would fit in PERFECTLY on the Apple TV and the developers of Plex have already stated that they would officially support development of an AppleTV Plex App if they have an SDK from Apple. (The current Plex app for jailbroken Apple TV is a project independent of the Plex guys)

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 11:39 AM
I would replace my PS3 in a heartbeat but there is one piece of the puzzle that AppleTV cannot fix. What about all those Blu-rays and DVDs I have. I would love if Apple sold an add on Blu-Ray/DVD unit (similar to the external DVD drive for the Macbook Air). Combine Apple TV apps with an iPhone 5 and AirPlay mirroring (especially game play) and we have a sweet solution and a sweet gaming console.

Rip them to h264 files.

ckeck
Jun 8, 2012, 11:40 AM
Here's what I don't get: Why would Apple even want to build a TV set? They've already got the AppleTV, which is cheap for consumers, and it can't get traction. Why would they spend the money to build a $2000 TV that won't sell either? TVs are a terrible industry, because people keep their TVs for YEARS! The reason the iPhone and the iPad are doing well is because people buy new phones every two years, typically, some more often...

What I think you are missing is that the TV play could be more about controlling the end-to-end experience. This primes consumers and predisposes them to the iTunes store ecosystem and all of their content.

Just like when Apple used the iPod as a way to sell more Macs at the time. Then used the new iTunes store to sell more iPods to sell more Macs.

Now it will be TVs to sell more iTunes....and more iPhones/iPads/Macs to consume all the Apple specific content you have purchased.

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 11:40 AM
I won't. Not until it supports mkv ;)

LOL, who cares? What is it with a few people and their precious MKV. It's becoming like the OGG guys...

Bonte
Jun 8, 2012, 11:40 AM
It would be cool if an iTV app could change the interface of the TV-remote app on my iPhone.

iSee
Jun 8, 2012, 11:41 AM
Finally!

I've been expecting this for a long time. It just seems like such a no-brainer...e.g., what would the iPhone be without 3rd party apps?

I can't figure out why Apple has been delaying this. Is it just that they've had enough on their plate with iPhones, Mac books, etc.??? It seems like Apple has plenty of resources ($$$ that is) to hire enough good people to take on the ATV, too.

That's why I'm not sure I believe this rumor: if Apple was going to do this at all, why wouldn't they have done it a while ago?

BMNB1tch
Jun 8, 2012, 11:41 AM
This could be big... lot's of great possibilities this would open up for the living room and tighter integration between iDevices.

Hope this one is true (and works with my 2nd gen ATV)


absolutely

tons of games and apps

its like the Wii U but with real developers behind it, not some stupid nintendo crap

you've already got an iOS device

just download an App or Team / Show Subscription

all of your fav content

no commercials
no QVC
no Lifetime!

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 11:42 AM
That was a bug in the installed in earlier versions. It only really applies if you have a drive connected to your HTPC that isn't going to be installed and formatted anyway.

I have OpenELEC running from a USB stick and no HDD in my HTPC. I have all my media on a WHS server.

I just want to try it out, and opening up my computer to unplug my HDD is a pain. So is it safe to do this on my PC then?

Tankmaze
Jun 8, 2012, 11:42 AM
This is interesting....

Now apple wants to open apps for a 16:9 resolution... No wonder the iphone is rumored to have a tall 16:9... One can only assume. This would be great for developers, and when on airplay it will display full screen without that black border on side

mirko.meschini
Jun 8, 2012, 11:43 AM
I still hold by the idea that a television set is NOT what they're planning. I think the "cracked" format is the current Apple TV. They're cheap, upgradable and gives a user freedom to do what they will with their tv screen. Imagine having an obsolete tv in 3 years and having to buy a new one. That's not a perfect solution, therefore, not apple.

Same thing with the iMac. And it's Apple.

BTW, I will buy for sure an Apple TV if i can legally install XBMC on it, and connect to all my favourite porn sites :D

kralnor
Jun 8, 2012, 11:44 AM
Here's what I don't get: Why would Apple even want to build a TV set? They've already got the AppleTV, which is cheap for consumers, and it can't get traction. Why would they spend the money to build a $2000 TV that won't sell either? TVs are a terrible industry, because people keep their TVs for YEARS! The reason the iPhone and the iPad are doing well is because people buy new phones every two years, typically, some more often. The iPad has been defined as a product you update every couple of years by Apple with their yearly upgrades. But the TV market is already defined. I just don't see the point in getting into a market where you are destined to fail. I don't see what an Apple TV set could do that the current AppleTV can't do. I think everyone has read into Steve's comments too much. I think his reinvention of a TV has nothing to do with an actual television set, and instead has to do with the AppleTV set top box, and is more along the lines of how to get programming to people, and less to do with the device they are getting it from.

Because a $2000 apple tv WILL sell and will create an entirely new app store market. People dont buy $3000 macbook pros every year either but Apple continues to make them because they make a huge profit on them.

marksman
Jun 8, 2012, 11:44 AM
Comcast and DirecTV should be taking the Apple TV seriously.

There are 5 families in my circle who have now 'cut the cord' and use a combination of over-the-air TV (with Tivo DVRs), Apple TVs. This is all because of them upset at the cost of cable, and seeing our free solution since 2009. If it weren't for me showing them what is possible out there, they would still be with cable. I talk to people every day who don't understand that television can be much cheaper, and there are devices out there (not necessarily Apple TV, but Tivo and Roku as well). Most people don't know this, or think it's too complicated to switch.

I think once Apple's marketing arm gets this out there, Comcast, Time/Warner, DirecTV, etc. will be in trouble. Funny thing is, this will be a complete roll reversal. Apple will be going for the cheap/less features television crowd while Comcast, T/W, DirecTV, etc. will be going for the more expensive/more features crowd.
Problem is for people who watch a lot of high quality tv cutting the cord is not possible. That is a solution for casual tv viewers not people who watch a lot of varied programming. You can not even watch some of the greatest shows on tv now with a cut cord unless you pirate them. The alternative mish mash of free and pay outlets will waste way more time then necessary.

If you just watch a few shows cord cutting is possible but for the most serious tv viewers it is not an option unless you want to steal shows or go without.

Cord cutting is not going to be viable for average to serious viewers for a while. You can not watch Game of Thrones which is the best show on all of television, unless you steal it. Nobody wants ala cart and untethered programming more than me. However the whole cord cutting concept has morphed into some kind of hipster pseudo reality.

heisenberg123
Jun 8, 2012, 11:47 AM
Plex is already an iOS App and has been for quite some time. It would fit in PERFECTLY on the Apple TV and the developers of Plex have already stated that they would officially support development of an AppleTV Plex App if they have an SDK from Apple. (The current Plex app for jailbroken Apple TV is a project independent of the Plex guys)

intereting thanks for correcting me, that it seems pretty logical to see it from the appletv

iSee
Jun 8, 2012, 11:49 AM
I won't. Not until it supports mkv ;)

The problem is, MKV is a container format.

So supporting MVK, in a general sense, means implementing many, many codecs or at least allowing 3rd parties to implement these codecs.

It ALSO means providing the hardware to run these codecs effectively for common video sources.

That's where this idea breaks down. ATV is probably going to need to be expensive (not to mention bigger) to contain the hardware to run the codecs people might want to use with their mkvs and will either have to write (or port) and support a lot of codecs or open the system to let 3rd parties supply those codecs. I can't see Apple doing either of these.

Edit: more likely, is that various 3rd-party apps will provide partial mkv support, based on codecs already included with ATV.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 11:50 AM
I would replace my PS3 in a heartbeat but there is one piece of the puzzle that AppleTV cannot fix. What about all those Blu-rays and DVDs I have. I would love if Apple sold an add on Blu-Ray/DVD unit (similar to the external DVD drive for the Macbook Air). Combine Apple TV apps with an iPhone 5 and AirPlay mirroring (especially game play) and we have a sweet solution and a sweet gaming console.

I don't see Apple building an add-on BD player but if they would normalize that USB port so that this SDK rumor could support software + hardware combinations, I'm confident some third party(s) would jump on that one. I suspect the pool of people who would like a "2 birds with one stone" option like this is big enough to motivate a third party to build it.

There is another pool wanting :apple:TV to become a DVR too. I don't see Apple building that in either (I think Apple really wants all the media consumption to be iTunes store-based), but it's easy to imagine Elgato jumping on this one with an Elgato app plus a DVR turner option attached to that normalized USB.

My guess: we'll get the long-awaited app store but have to "upgrade" again to another new model down the road for a USB port or two (normalized) and thus hardware add-on options for apps.

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 11:51 AM
Problem is for people who watch a lot of high quality tv cutting the cord is not possible. That is a solution for casual tv viewers not people who watch a lot of varied programming. You can not even watch some of the greatest shows on tv now with a cut cord unless you pirate them. The alternative mish mash of free and pay outlets will waste way more time then necessary.

If you just watch a few shows cord cutting is possible but for the most serious tv viewers it is not an option unless you want to steal shows or go without.

Cord cutting is not going to be viable for average to serious viewers for a while. You can not watch Game of Thrones which is the best show on all of television, unless you steal it. Nobody wants ala cart and untethered programming more than me. However the whole cord cutting concept has morphed into some kind of hipster pseudo reality.

Agree. You also don't save much money. I pay about $35/month for DVR HDTV service, when I add up all the services I need to buy without cable I really don't save anything (hulu, netflix streaming, etc)

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 11:51 AM
Apple is the only company I know in the tech space that is innovating. They have a clear goal of what they want to do, and focus on it. There is no profit motive, which is ironically, why they are so profitable.

Every other company in the tech space throws a bunch of things at the wall to see what sticks, and only keeps what makes money.

An Apple fan is one who can imagine. You're bullying people who are thinking of new possibilities. That's the exact opposite of a person who dreams big. When Apple does release a product, give a critique then, but to say that DirecTV is the epiphany of television in our lifetimes? Come on!

I'm not bullying; I'm just not into hyperbole and people getting their hopes up bases on rumors only to be let down and then hating on Apple for not realizing their fantasies.

As far as innovation I guess it's how you define it. I'm sure there are othe tech companies that would not agree that Applr is the leader in innovation in the tech space.

bbeagle
Jun 8, 2012, 11:51 AM
However the whole cord cutting concept has morphed into some kind of hipster pseudo reality.

So we should just give up and bully people who try, or should we support companies with our vision and see if they can give it a go?

50548
Jun 8, 2012, 11:52 AM
If true, this is WAY bigger news than retina macs. Every network, HBO, movie streaming service, and hulu are going to drop apps immediately.

Absolutely. This might be what SJ meant for "cracking" the TV secret...this news is WAY more important and exciting than ML or iOS6.

kralnor
Jun 8, 2012, 11:53 AM
They're already on iOS big time.

Now - I'd say this - I don't expect them to change their subscription model yet. That is, to access content, you'll still need to be a subscriber from cable or sat.
I cant wait for these channels to break away and allow people to subscribe independently. Id gladly pay for channels exclusively that i could stream anywhere if i didnt have to also pay for 150 other channels i would never watch.

baleensavage
Jun 8, 2012, 11:54 AM
It will be interesting to see what Apple does with this. Right now, people use their TVs for two primary things: video (TV or movies) and gaming. With the current AppleTV they could handle various video based apps without much problem. If Apple opens the AppleTV up to gaming, then they are moving into the console gaming system realm and they have some pretty stiff competition there and they would need to up the specs of the box drastically if they want to offer more than just Angry Birds.

There is room for some stuff like internet browsing and social media, but then you run into the input aspect of things. Most TV based Web browsers have been total flops. You either need to have bluetooth capabilities for a full keyboard or some type of touch-screen controller like an iPod or something, which just seems like overkill. The only other option would be if they are going to go the Kinect route and have some type of Siri/camera option, but then they'd need a device with a mic and camera to go on the top of the TV.

KDNYC
Jun 8, 2012, 11:54 AM
Fantastic! I just got an AT3 so I could easily send content from my computer to my HDTV and turn on English "soft" subtitles in Netflix, which other players cannot do. I find streaming Netflix easier with the AT3 than through my Panasonic's built-in app.

Would love to see a better option for handling and navigating media content, such as Plex. But will Apple even allow this? I want to divorce iTunes.

smithrh
Jun 8, 2012, 11:58 AM
It's not just the usual apps that we're all anticipating - it's all of the cool stuff no one has even thought of yet.

The number of good iOS developers out there is high. I expect some unexpectedly cool stuff within 6-8 months.

Yes, that parses but I had to think about it for a second!

Yvan256
Jun 8, 2012, 11:58 AM
Anyone else disappointed that we haven't heard any good rumors about innovation on the printer front?




:p

There's LOTS of innovations on the printer front!

Start by going to www.reprap.org and you'll find dozens of new printer models. ;)

chirpie
Jun 8, 2012, 11:58 AM
You guys were confusing the crap out of me. I lost count of how many people said 8GB of RAM.

Uh, no. 512megs.

I was like, "Why is everyone bagging on 8 gigs of RAM not being enou... ohhhhh."

So yeah, for the sake of my poor little brain, please stop that. :-P

Sue De Nimes
Jun 8, 2012, 12:00 PM
I just want to try it out, and opening up my computer to unplug my HDD is a pain. So is it safe to do this on my PC then?

Are you running on a HTPC? I would recommend unplugging your HDD before installing otherwise it may wipe your HDD. (It might not but there is a risk)

If you really don't want to do that you could just run an installation of XBMCbuntu from a persistent live stick. You can install that from your PC and then have a bootable stick you can use with your HTPC.

The reason I went with OpenELEC is it boots in about 10second. It also just boots straight into XBMC without anything else. For something that I want to use as essentially a consumer electronics device I think it is great.

bbeagle
Jun 8, 2012, 12:01 PM
Problem is for people who watch a lot of high quality tv cutting the cord is not possible. That is a solution for casual tv viewers not people who watch a lot of varied programming. You can not even watch some of the greatest shows on tv now with a cut cord unless you pirate them.


Agreed.

This is similar to the world of music in the 90s with Napster. There was no really easy way back then to obtain many songs without pirating them.

Say, you wanted an old 1970s song, you'd have to scour the record stores to find someone with the CD with the song on it, pay $10-$15 for that CD, bring it home to burn on your computer.

Apple solved this issue. Now, I don't even THINK of pirating a song, when it's so simple and easy to buy it in iTunes.

Apple needs to work on this. If they don't, then Apple TV will still be a niche market.

When I cut the cord, live sports is tough. I can watch the NFL over the air (5 games per week is good enough for me). But for NHL, I have to pirate streams of the games. Apple has this half-solved. I can watch live NHL games by paying for a subscription to NHL Centre Ice, but only out-of-market teams, not my home team.

Apple still needs to solve the live sports issue.

bilbo--baggins
Jun 8, 2012, 12:03 PM
If this turns out to be true this is going to make more difference to me than anything since the iPhone came out.

rmwebs
Jun 8, 2012, 12:03 PM
About damn time! Jailbreaking has been the only option to make the ATV useful (outside the US its a pretty limited device).

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 12:04 PM
It's not just the usual apps that we're all anticipating - it's all of the cool stuff no one has even thought of yet. The number of good iOS developers out there is high. I expect some unexpectedly cool stuff within 6-8 months.

And consider, when the iPhone SDK rolled out, it wasn't that long after the iPhone launched. So there was this relatively small window of time and smallish number of developers to think about what they would build as apps if Apple ever opened it up.

With :apple:TV, there's been 5+ years for developers to think about the kinds of apps they would develop. And there are tons of iDevice developers relative to the small pool back then. Put those two together and- like you- I would expect some very impressive stuff to roll out via an :apple:TV app store.

rva1
Jun 8, 2012, 12:04 PM
Yay!!!

you know what this means right? Some developers have already had access to the apple tv sdk and will be present to demo some apps!

ouimetnick
Jun 8, 2012, 12:06 PM
You guys were confusing the crap out of me. I lost count of how many people said 8GB of RAM.

Uh, no. 512megs.

I was like, "Why is everyone bagging on 8 gigs of RAM not being enou... ohhhhh."

So yeah, for the sake of my poor little brain, please stop that. :-P

I believe it is 256MB.. Although maybe the 3rd gen :apple:tv has 512MB?

ufwa
Jun 8, 2012, 12:08 PM
The problem is, MKV is a container format.

So supporting MVK, in a general sense, means implementing many, many codecs or at least allowing 3rd parties to implement these codecs.

It ALSO means providing the hardware to run these codecs effectively for common video sources.

That's where this idea breaks down. ATV is probably going to need to be expensive (not to mention bigger) to contain the hardware to run the codecs people might want to use with their mkvs and will either have to write (or port) and support a lot of codecs or open the system to let 3rd parties supply those codecs. I can't see Apple doing either of these.

Edit: more likely, is that various 3rd-party apps will provide partial mkv support, based on codecs already included with ATV.

Umm no.

the WDTV Live Streaming goes for only 100 bucks and is able to play a nearly everything thrown at it. I doubt western digital is selling these at a lost.

its size is virtually the same size. 0.3 in taller and only an inch wider. But provides more than what the apple tv does. 2 functional usb ports to play/view off local sources and little a/v jack for those without a tv with hdmi.

Apple can do it, they simply choose not to.

SmileyBlast!
Jun 8, 2012, 12:09 PM
I wouldn't get your hopes up for that one.

They don't want to pass up the In App Purchases this will permit.
Apple get's 30%. But they all get revenue as well for their content with No Ads to sell.

In fact maybe they could have a free version with no skip ads inserted and then they can get paid from the Ad friendly and Ad averse viewers.

faroZ06
Jun 8, 2012, 12:09 PM
The coax input days are long gone. Everything is digital now and digitally encrypted. There was an effort called "cable card" aimed at making all cable system video accessible via third party boxes by plugging in a "key" card. However, the industry worked well to insure that THAT solution was painful... at best.

To go where you suggest might be something possible by building in an HDMI IN jack so that a cable box could do the decrypting and then pass the signal out of that box and into the :apple:TV. However, there's also a bunch of hoops to jump there too (but it would be the more likely way toward accomplishing what you are suggesting). Basically, the key is that you would need the signal decryption done BEFORE it gets to the :apple:TV. Else you would need Apple making deals with all of the cable companies to try to build cable box decrypting INSIDE the box and why would the cable companies want to help Apple replace their cable boxes (usually rented) with one box (to rule them all)?

Digital information IS carried over coax. Antenna TV and cable are both digital. It's annoying to have to switch to another box just to watch TV because your Apple TV can't watch TV, and the other boxes are far below Apple quality.

jzuena
Jun 8, 2012, 12:12 PM
If we can get some XMBC and Plex action like this on the 1080p Apple TV and not worry about jailbreaking I'll buy 3.

I'm right there as well!

You'll never get XBMC while they still rely on FFmpeg for player, as its open source and will not be allowed as such into Apples ecosystem. You will most likely get Plex though, which is better anyways.

Does Plex understand the myth:// protocol like XBMC does? Because my first gen AppleTV makes a great MythTV front end (for standard definition MPEG2-encoded Myth content) once its patchsticked and XBMC is added.

Plex is a fork of XBMC. Just an FYI.

They don't need to bring out a full XBMC version (or Plex). As long as it can ping a file server, they could have the Mac/PC do the encoding itself.

w00master

A full version would be much preferred in order to allow the aTV to simply stream non-H.264 video from a NAS (or MythTV box), rather than require a computer to transcode it and then re-stream it to the aTV. Even the version 1 box has enough horsepower to at least play standard definition media that isn't in Apple's H.264 format.

not sure if its as good as news as some hope, i dont expect them to start allowing "jailbroken" type channels, look how fast VLC player was pulled from the app store for iOS devices, so i dont expect Plex or XBMC type apps coming to appletv.

I expect things like Weather Channels, Sports Apps(ie ESPN, ScoreMobile) Stocks, Facebook, Twitter,

VLC was pulled at the developers request, not Apple's. One of the developers would not agree to place his portion of the code in a non-GPL license format for the iOS version to allow it to coexist with Apple's license requirements.

Plex is already an iOS App and has been for quite some time. It would fit in PERFECTLY on the Apple TV and the developers of Plex have already stated that they would officially support development of an AppleTV Plex App if they have an SDK from Apple. (The current Plex app for jailbroken Apple TV is a project independent of the Plex guys)

That is just a Plex display client for iOS. All of the heavy work must be done using Plex on a Mac or PC, then the results are streamed to the iOS device.

Dubthedankest
Jun 8, 2012, 12:15 PM
Question (I apologize if this has been asked already or covered in BGR's article, not much time to read up on previous posts and I try to avoid BGR):

How are they gonna allow apps for an HDTV on a device with only ~8GB of onboard storage?

Will it be streamed?

Illusion986
Jun 8, 2012, 12:18 PM
But will it blend? :confused:

Nimrad
Jun 8, 2012, 12:18 PM
How will they do searching in the App Store? Siri? I will need a keyboard also, cause I can't use Siri in Norwegian

CorporateFelon
Jun 8, 2012, 12:19 PM
If we can get some XMBC and Plex action like this on the 1080p Apple TV and not worry about jailbreaking I'll buy 3.

I have no need to buy a 3. I still only have a 720p TV. But yes, plex is the only reason that I need to jailbreak my apple tv. And I dont have to worry about not upgrading for fear of breaking the jailbreak and plex.

bushido
Jun 8, 2012, 12:19 PM
"Good Player" for ATV would be a nice addition, i could finally play mkv, but i doubt that will happen

Nimrad
Jun 8, 2012, 12:19 PM
Question (I apologize if this has been asked already or covered in BGR's article, not much time to read up on previous posts and I try to avoid BGR):

How are they gonna allow apps for an HDTV on a device with only ~8GB of onboard storage?

Will it be streamed?

Apps will probably be stored and content streamed.

rmwebs
Jun 8, 2012, 12:20 PM
Question (I apologize if this has been asked already or covered in BGR's article, not much time to read up on previous posts and I try to avoid BGR):

How are they gonna allow apps for an HDTV on a device with only ~8GB of onboard storage?

Will it be streamed?

I'd guess so. The ATV is likely going to be pulling content from a Mac or iPhone/iPad in most cases. In other cases it'll be working with network or web based storage/streaming.

The 8GB will be used for app storage and buffer space.

----------

I have no need to buy a 3. I still only have a 720p TV. But yes, plex is the only reason that I need to jailbreak my apple tv. And I dont have to worry about not upgrading for fear of breaking the jailbreak and plex.

I think he meant that he would buy 3 of them ;)

TMay
Jun 8, 2012, 12:21 PM
Hyperbole much? Do you work for Apple marketing? Yeah I'm sure Comcast and DirecTV are quaking in their boots right now. :p

Similar trash talk by competitors of both the iPhone and iPad before and after release.

How did that work out?

Neither Comcast nor Direct TV need be too worried now, but cord cutters increase and ala cart demands could impact earnings.

rmwebs
Jun 8, 2012, 12:21 PM
But will it blend? :confused:

Given that its software, no...no it wont.

bergert
Jun 8, 2012, 12:21 PM
I don't really understand the real purpose of apps on your TV. Also the ATV has a very small amount of storage (8gb?).


Have you ever entered the WiFi password on an aTV - it sucks!

But using an iPhone/iPad/iPodTouch requires a new set of SDK. I'm not talking about a remote keyboard or screen sharing.

For any type of App the display (aTV) needs to send data to the remote and the remote sends the control events back to the aTV. Just like a remote Apple-Events we had in OS9. I'm sure they have a nifty OO solution for Xcode, and that's the sort of solution Steve had in mind.

rmwebs
Jun 8, 2012, 12:22 PM
Similar trash talk by competitors of both the iPhone and iPad before and after release.

How did that work out?

Neither Comcast nor Direct TV need be too worried now, but cord cutters increase and ala cart demands could impact earnings.

The cable networks wont be worried until Apple can get live streaming of their channels. Until that happens, they dont need to do anything.

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 12:23 PM
Are you running on a HTPC? I would recommend unplugging your HDD before installing otherwise it may wipe your HDD. (It might not but there is a risk)

If you really don't want to do that you could just run an installation of XBMCbuntu from a persistent live stick. You can install that from your PC and then have a bootable stick you can use with your HTPC.

The reason I went with OpenELEC is it boots in about 10second. It also just boots straight into XBMC without anything else. For something that I want to use as essentially a consumer electronics device I think it is great.

Ah thanks. Do they have the drivers for ATI graphic cards working properly?

jayfehr
Jun 8, 2012, 12:25 PM
Obviously you're not familiar with the 27" iMac with it's $1000 integrated cinema display that becomes trash when then computer components are outdated.

The last few iMac's have had the ability to use the displays as external monitors. Once the computer hardware is outdated, just plug your new computer into the old one, and presto, it's a monitor.

sublimentality
Jun 8, 2012, 12:25 PM
For those that are worried about the small 8GB storage on the apple TV, I could totally see upgrades to iCloud to allow for "Cloud Apps". This totally makes sense for the apple TV at least considering its supposed to be always connected. This in my opinion is the only way they'll get this to work, cause yea 8gb is too small. Especially considering after firmware and everything else really there is probably about 4gb free space left. Either that or Apple will get really really restrictive about size limitations of apps which does not equal a good thing.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 12:30 PM
Digital information IS carried over coax. Antenna TV and cable are both digital. It's annoying to have to switch to another box just to watch TV because your Apple TV can't watch TV, and the other boxes are far below Apple quality.

Technically, you are correct. But I'll try again. Suppose Apple does as suggested as adds a coax in jack to the :apple:TV. Then what? I have DISH, so if :apple:TV is going to be able to replace my DISH box, the software that translates DISH digital signals into something that can actually be seen on the HDTV will need to be built into the :apple:TV box. Suppose you have DirectTV. Same issue. Someone else has Comcast. Same issue. Cablevision. Time Warner. Etc. There are lots of them.

In a Coax in solution, Apple would need to strike deals with all of these players so that the software could be put inside the :apple:TV to work with their particular variation of encrypted digital signals over coax. Most (all?) of them make nice revenues by renting their own boxes, effectively a required rental if you want to view their signals. Why would they cut their revenue throats to make a one-time (purchase) box from Apple replace all that revenue (and related opportunities by installing their own boxes)?

I offered how it could work against that reality. Maybe adding an HDMI in port to :apple:TV could allow all of the Cable/Satt players to keep their boxes in place while still creating a way for the signal to flow through the :apple:TV4 (with HDMI in). I think this is much more likely than all of the existing cable/satt guys cooperating with Apple to kill off their recurring box rental revenues (and related revenue opportunities).

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 12:32 PM
How will they do searching in the App Store? Siri? I will need a keyboard also, cause I can't use Siri in NorwegianI buy most of my iPhone/iPad Apps and manage the arrangement of Apps on each device (have 4) via iTunes on my Computer. I would hope I could do the same for ALL of the Apple TV's in my house (current have 3).

Rocketman
Jun 8, 2012, 12:33 PM
Reading through several messages here it appears ATV will be the go to hook to TV unit for every TV, but that Roku will continue to offer features people cannot live without and Apple is very unlikely to adopt. It also appears you will still need a PS2 if only for Blue Ray support. If Apple were to at least allow external "resource" devices to attach to the ATV ecosystem to distribute whatever content you have in your home to whatever TV you have, that would be spectacular.

I would also expect Apple to allow open ended remote control apps within some bounds and over time adopt some of their aspects or features or possibly purchase a small remote app company so by the time we get to iOS 6.2 or so there is an "evolved" remote scheme. That scheme will not look like anything we have now, like a prettier looking remote on a screen, but some combination of context sensitive options, voice control, habit repetition and optional full modifications.

So no, Roku and PS2 are not dead anytime soon. Can we at least hook them up? I suppose Apple will force us to have a Mac for that rather than a $2 way to do it on ATV. TB makes a bunch of things possible if it's not crippled or locked down in some way.

Rocketman

Next Gen ATV5 in a year might have slots for 4 "cable cards" so the subscriptions services are in no way bypassed, but the user has ultimate convenience. If a cable/sat company can get full revenues but skip the box handling aspect it actually increases ROI.

profets
Jun 8, 2012, 12:34 PM
I have no need to buy a 3. I still only have a 720p TV. But yes, plex is the only reason that I need to jailbreak my apple tv. And I dont have to worry about not upgrading for fear of breaking the jailbreak and plex.



----------



I think he meant that he would buy 3 of them ;)

Lol yes, 3 of them for around the house.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 12:34 PM
I don't really understand the real purpose of apps on your TV. Also the ATV has a very small amount of storage (8gb?).


Define "apps". If you are thinking the width and breath of the iOS stores then sure, it doesn't feel right.

If you are talking about a limited SDK that assists folks in creating TV appropriate apps and app modes for games, viewing video etc, those things do make sense. And I think that's what they will get. Not a fully open SDK but a limited one for making apps that will work with viewing things on a tv.

Also, they might end up releasing an Apple TV with more storage.

The only thing I do hope is that they do something about the whole iTunes Extras not working on iOS and these studio created apps like the whole Dark Knight etc. I bought the movie before the app came out but to use the features that require purchase I would have to buy it again. To me that is totally wrong. There has to be a way for the app to know I already bought it and activate that stuff. Or if I buy it in app for me to be able to download the plain movie file to my computer.

I bought the Avatar release a few months back cause I wanted to see these all new jazzy Extras features and they were rather awesome for such a set up. Way more 'disk' than previous ones. But that kind of thing is never really going to take off if we can't watch them on all devices. Sure you can hook up a computer to your tv but that negates the point of the Apple TV so why not make it work in that system if not in the iPad as well. Fix that issue, encourage studios to make their online closer to identical to the disks in terms of features, subtitles etc. give us a way to buy up to the higher quality for things that weren't available that way before (like many tv shows) etc and Apple could have a winner even without building an actual tv

M-O
Jun 8, 2012, 12:34 PM
I still hold by the idea that a television set is NOT what they're planning. I think the "cracked" format is the current Apple TV. They're cheap, upgradable and gives a user freedom to do what they will with their tv screen. Imagine having an obsolete tv in 3 years and having to buy a new one. That's not a perfect solution, therefore, not apple.

The advantage of Apple building their own set would be the additional sensors they can add to it. The simple example is a camera for facetime & motion capture.

A crazier example is a touch screen & gyro. You can rotate the screen to portrait mode, or tilt it back to drafting table mode. Tilt it back all the way for board game, ping pong, billiards, maps mode.

Most people would not pay a premium for a tv with an Apple logo on it, but they would pay a premium for an "iPanel" that can also be used as a tv.

If they do make something, it will be as much a tv as the iPhone was a phone.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 12:36 PM
Neither Comcast nor Direct TV need be too worried now, but cord cutters increase and ala cart demands could impact earnings.

No it can't. These cable companies pretty much own local broadband for a (THIS) reason. Cut into the TV subscription revenue with some Internet-based replacement and broadband pricing will just go up to make up the difference. A solution like this- from Apple or anyone else- is dependent on broadband.

The missing rumor is how Apple can bypass all of these middlemen by linking us users directly to iCloud. As long as we have toll masters called Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, etc they will NOT suffer losses by someone's replacement solution that is dependent on their broadband pipes.

Sharkus
Jun 8, 2012, 12:37 PM
This could possibly do away with the need to jailbreak an AppleTV. Granted the ATV 1 and ATV 2 can be jailbroken, but as is know, the ATV 3 isn't JB'd yet, and it seems it's a fairly impenetrable little device, so no-one seems to know how long it'll take for a JB to arrive.

Why JB an ATV? Well, for me, I want to run XBMC on it. I don't want to convert / transcode (even if it's live transcoding) any existing files to an iTunes compatible format, nor do I want to add items to iTunes to be able to play them Yes, fully understand I don't need to copy the media over, but I still have to add references to them to iTunes. It's a step I don't want. I want to be able to turn on the ATV, connect to my server, open my player app, and play my avi / mkv / whatever file.

I'm hoping that if this SDK does come to fruition that XBMC types will look into it and see if they can get their app running using it. I know a little about dev and would presume if it'll run on a JB'd device then if there is a legitimate way to get the app onto the device it would still run.

One possibly cloud on the horizon could be the App Store side of things, there will be guidelines as there are with the other App Stores, and like the iPhone one, I suspect there could be a "Duplicates Existing Functionality" guideline, which could be used to keep something like XBMC out of the store, as it's a player, and the ATV can already play files.
I'd like to think Apple wouldn't be so boneheaded to do that though.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 12:38 PM
Rumor sites are getting too good. No wonder Tim can't do a "one more thing"

If Tim wants to do a 'one more thing' he'll do it. He'll have something in the works that hasn't leaked out to anyone. Something only he and Sir Jony know about. Course it might not 'be real' for a few months if they are keeping it that close. But if that's what's required that's what's required.

But something tells me that he doesn't want to. That was a Steve thing and this isn't Steve's Apple anymore. That kind of showmanship and zing is part of what got everyone focusing on Steve and not the products and that was a bad thing for Apple. Now we have boring Tim and his boring presentations in terms of how he says the words, so everyone focuses on the pretty photos and what he's talking about. Just as he likely wants it. Hell he plays narrator more than anything else and leaves the show to the various members of the teams. Why? To show folks that it is a team and not one man. Something Steve latched onto in the end as well. But not until after Apple took a major plunge because of the star focus on Steve and the media hyping up the idea that he and Apple were the same thing and without him there is no Apple.

satchmo
Jun 8, 2012, 12:39 PM
Somehow I doubt all of this will be announced at WWDC. We get all these wild rumors and the actual event never lives up to them. Before the iPad event the rumors were it would have haptic feedback. Of course that never happened.

Exactly. And then everyone is pissed off at Apple because they didn't live up to rumors propagated by others.

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 12:39 PM
I offered how it could work against that reality. Maybe adding an HDMI in port to :apple:TV could allow all of the Cable/Satt players to keep their boxes in place while still creating a way for the signal to flow through the :apple:TV4 (with HDMI in). I think this is much more likely than all of the existing cable/satt guys cooperating with Apple to kill off their recurring box rental revenues (and related revenue opportunities).This is similar to the SlingBox but you only need 1 per box and then on the Apple TV you stream from the SlingBox. I think SlingBox is built into one of the Sat Boxes (maybe DISH). Verizon FIOS is due to release a 6 turner Media Server and then uses boxes like the Apple TV as the clients streaming from the Media Server. I believe they even say you can use boxes like the XBOX so they appear to already be willing to work with other STB's. I think Version has the right idea. They just need to have an App for the Apple TV.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 12:40 PM
lass? You mean like AirPlay from an iPad? ;)

Everything that Nintendo, Microsoft et al showed off this week has been done with an iOS app with or without Airplay.

Flitzy
Jun 8, 2012, 12:40 PM
This would be awesome!

However, to be truly a successful WWDC, the only thing I want to hear is:
"We now have an iBooks client for the Mac." :)

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 12:43 PM
If true, this is WAY bigger news than retina macs. Every network, HBO, movie streaming service, and hulu are going to drop apps immediately.

Or not. Remember these networks etc have to deal with contract issues. Same kind of issues that have blocked most of Fox and a good chunk of Warner Bros from being redownloaded if you bought the movie off iTunes. Same contracts that stop shows from going on iTunes until the disks come out 6 months later because it's considered 'broadcasting' and someone already has an exclusive deal for the second run. And so on

Many of the nets already have apps, as do most of the legit streaming services (in particular Hulu) for iOS and there's zero technical reasons those can't be included already. But there are legal ones.

Believe58
Jun 8, 2012, 12:43 PM
Apple and Nintendo will team up with the new wii. It is why they are so evasive about when the new wii comes out

markk70
Jun 8, 2012, 12:44 PM
I'm not after what the little box can do, I want a bigger solution...The all-in-one TV.

Apple, if you want my $1500 for a 40"+ TV this is what I want:

IOS integrated with built-in Cable box and a subsidy from provider in exchange for a contract - Phone companies can do it, why not cable/satellite? no DVR. The carriers should make all content on-demand and disable the fast forward function to ensure the commercials get played. FF is available on sponsored content. There is no reason why every household should have a 300 gig DVR...it's inefficient.
iCloud movies, TV shows, and music...this should help limit the internal SD memory and drive up thier I could usage.
Appstore – games, email, weather, safari, imessage, etc..
Put the darn WIFI router in the TV. This should also have several Etherenet out ports for printers and the current Apple TV. Convert the existing Apple TVs into dummy terminals as a Cablebox/smart TVs on other Tvs.
Ad a slot loading 3D Blu-ray player. People have shot this down, but it is now accepted as the HD format. Why not?
Passive 3d- I know this is only 720p, but I'm blind and I think affordable passive 3d 1080p is a few years down the road.
Built-in Zwave transmitter – that’s right, home automation. Why not? The technology is not rocket science and they could dominate this market overnight. App developer would go nuts on this one…
Bluetooth 4.0 - game controls, keyboards, etc...
Front facing camera and mic - facetime
Siri

As you can tell, I don’t really want to cut the cord…I just want less boxes and cables. Why should I have a tv with a million HDMI in's so I can switch between boxes? Make the Apple TV be the center of the home load it with the boxes I already have...

I know it seems kinda silly, but could you imagine a TV that had all of those feature? Pretty sweet.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 12:45 PM
Why not? HBO Go is on iOS, Xbox, I think ps3, etc.

And limited to those that are subscribers to the service via a cable company that allows them to use it.

Why would they bother with an app to see the same stuff your cable service gives you.

For this app to truly be useful you would need to be able to subscribe to the service without needing a cable plan. Which would be awesome but unlikely to happen anytime soon since such nets are in long term contracts with the cable companies.

paradox00
Jun 8, 2012, 12:46 PM
For those that are worried about the small 8GB storage on the apple TV, I could totally see upgrades to iCloud to allow for "Cloud Apps". This totally makes sense for the apple TV at least considering its supposed to be always connected. This in my opinion is the only way they'll get this to work, cause yea 8gb is too small. Especially considering after firmware and everything else really there is probably about 4gb free space left. Either that or Apple will get really really restrictive about size limitations of apps which does not equal a good thing.

I don't think they'll do iCloud hosted apps. Most apps would be video streaming apps, which aren't large themselves. Apple still sells 8 GB iPhones, so the expectation to install apps on a device of that capacity isn't unheard of, even if iPhone apps are a lower resolution and therefore lower size.

Games need a controller, so the primary app may continue to remain on your iPhone/iPad. If they are installed on Apple TV, more space would be needed, and I'm sure Apple would be happy to sell it to you. We'll probably see multiple capacities of Apple TV moving forward.

ristlin
Jun 8, 2012, 12:46 PM
If Tim wants to do a 'one more thing' he'll do it. He'll have something in the works that hasn't leaked out to anyone. Something only he and Sir Jony know about. Course it might not 'be real' for a few months if they are keeping it that close. But if that's what's required that's what's required.

But something tells me that he doesn't want to. That was a Steve thing and this isn't Steve's Apple anymore. That kind of showmanship and zing is part of what got everyone focusing on Steve and not the products and that was a bad thing for Apple. Now we have boring Tim and his boring presentations in terms of how he says the words, so everyone focuses on the pretty photos and what he's talking about. Just as he likely wants it. Hell he plays narrator more than anything else and leaves the show to the various members of the teams. Why? To show folks that it is a team and not one man. Something Steve latched onto in the end as well. But not until after Apple took a major plunge because of the star focus on Steve and the media hyping up the idea that he and Apple were the same thing and without him there is no Apple.

Steve latched onto that in the end mostly for his health. He physically couldn't give the entire presentation himself anymore.

These past few presentations have been lackluster and I am afraid it is going to stay that way, not because they want to paint a different picture of Apple, but because they are not capable of that level of showmanship.

So Random
Jun 8, 2012, 12:49 PM
Hyperbole much? Do you work for Apple marketing? Yeah I'm sure Comcast and DirecTV are quaking in their boots right now. :p

Uh, no . . .

Do I need to "work for Apple" to consider some of the possibilities, based on what they have *already* done to existing industries where the entrenched players appeared to be impossible to unseat?

People thought the very idea of an iPhone was crazy, never mind having it change literally everything in mobile. People thought the iPad was a crazy idea, and today the question of the PC's future is on the table. You can go all the way back to the iPod.

Current powers in an industry mean absolutely nothing when Apple jumps into the mix. We've already seen this more than once. You can even include iTunes vs. the music industry.

Comcast, DirectTV, all these providers, you name it . . . they're stuff we have to put up with to get what we want. What consumer actually wants to deal with them? Who actually wants them involved? Nobody.

Sue De Nimes
Jun 8, 2012, 12:49 PM
Ah thanks. Do they have the drivers for ATI graphic cards working properly?

I am running on a fusion motherboard. I can playback high bitrate 1080p stuff without a single dropped frame.

:)

SockRolid
Jun 8, 2012, 12:49 PM
I still think Apple might want to limit the number and type of apps on any of their TV products. Just national and local TV networks (and ex-cable and ex-satellite networks), current internet-only video streaming ventures (iTunes, Netflix, Hulu, etc.), all-new internet-only streaming ventures we haven't heard of yet, and a few "premium" games.

With iAd replacing all traditional video-only ads, of course.

On the other hand, it's possible that Apple might allow thousands or hundreds of thousands of apps to be developed for or ported to Apple TV (and any possible HDTV set.) But instead of pages and pages of icons, there could be just one page. Organized for you by Siri. You'd just say something like "Siri - show me news channels. Are there any international breaking news stories?" and maybe "Siri - I want to play Angry Birds."

And if there is a TV App Store, I'd expect it to be totally separate from the iPhone / iPad app store. It doesn't really make any sense to have 3-screen universality does it? Why would you need to have an iPhone / iPad / TV universal app? The control scheme for TV apps, especially games, could be totally different and incompatible with small touch-screen devices.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 8, 2012, 12:50 PM
So when does the iPad become 16x9?
Looks like I wont be buying an iPad 3 any time soon.

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 12:51 PM
Exactly. And then everyone is pissed off at Apple because they didn't live up to rumors propagated by others.
Even now I see news stories/blog postings saying Apple needs to put up or shut up. But it's not Apple driving the constant rumor mill.

tdmac
Jun 8, 2012, 12:51 PM
Here are my thoughts:

- News makes perfect sense. Apple has two options. One is open the ATV up and that is the ATV itself and not a TV.

- The second is that based on this info, is that Apple is making a display but not a TV. It would be a something like the Apple Thunderbolt display but in large screen versions with HDMI ports as well as thunderbolt port(s). Since most use some sort of cablebox or Sat box for TV anyway so a monitor is all that is needed. If the resolution is able to scale to 4K it would be pretty futureproof. Aside from HDMI updates (If they would be necessary for dub terminal purposes) or maybe these things could be handled via the thunderbolt port. Only other thing missing could be 3D but possible the display could be built with that in mind . This makes more sense and could be produced on a smaller scale for those wanting a very high quality monitor. Although there will probably be some advantage for those buying the Apple monitor over using the ATV with a normal set.

The ATV would update annually and of course would have features released that would push those to upgrading within a 1-2 year cycle. Much like the ipads and iphones.

On board storage is an issue as people have stated. However, this could also be mitigated by using a local computer as the storage device, which is the case if you have it hooked up now to a local machine, and that can serve apps down to the ATV. The 8GB serves as Cache. As other have pointed out, another possibility is running the apps from devices like an iPhone or iPad. cashing apps off an idevice to run on the ATV. There is a side benefit to this. Everyone's screen on the ATV could then be custom tailored to the user based on their iDevice or itunes library.

ericvmazzone
Jun 8, 2012, 12:51 PM
It would be cool if an iTV app could change the interface of the TV-remote app on my iPhone.

How would an app release by a cable channel in the UK allow you to change the Interface on your iPhone?

iTV is a cable network in the UK.

tuxon86
Jun 8, 2012, 12:51 PM
I would replace my PS3 in a heartbeat but there is one piece of the puzzle that AppleTV cannot fix. What about all those Blu-rays and DVDs I have. I would love if Apple sold an add on Blu-Ray/DVD unit (similar to the external DVD drive for the Macbook Air). Combine Apple TV apps with an iPhone 5 and AirPlay mirroring (especially game play) and we have a sweet solution and a sweet gaming console.

You can use any external dvd/bluray drive on the market with your mac. I have an external USB enclosure with a LG bluray burner hooked to my i3 iMac and I use it to rip my bluray disk with Handbrake. Works like a charm. I can also burn bluray disk with Roxio.

Rogifan
Jun 8, 2012, 12:52 PM
Uh, no . . .

Do I need to "work for Apple" to consider some of the possibilities, based on what they have *already* done to existing industries where the entrenched players appeared to be impossible to unseat?

People thought the very idea of an iPhone was crazy, never mind having it change literally everything in mobile. People thought the iPad was a crazy idea, and today the question of the PC's future is on the table. You can go all the way back to the iPod.

Current powers in an industry mean absolutely nothing when Apple jumps into the mix. We've already seen this more than once. You can even include iTunes vs. the music industry.

Comcast, DirectTV, all these providers, you name it . . . they're stuff we have to put up with to get what we want. What consumer actually wants to deal with them? Who actually wants them involved? Nobody.
I've had directv for years now and am very happy with their service. I think the number of people fed up with cable/satellite TV is greatly exaggerated.

ThisIsNotMe
Jun 8, 2012, 12:54 PM
I would replace my PS3 in a heartbeat but there is one piece of the puzzle that AppleTV cannot fix. What about all those Blu-rays and DVDs I have. I would love if Apple sold an add on Blu-Ray/DVD unit (similar to the external DVD drive for the Macbook Air). Combine Apple TV apps with an iPhone 5 and AirPlay mirroring (especially game play) and we have a sweet solution and a sweet gaming console.

The studios should have a "trade in" program for iTunes digital codes. The they could "refurbish" the disks and sell them again.

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 12:55 PM
And limited to those that are subscribers to the service via a cable company that allows them to use it.

Why would they bother with an app to see the same stuff your cable service gives you.

For this app to truly be useful you would need to be able to subscribe to the service without needing a cable plan. Which would be awesome but unlikely to happen anytime soon since such nets are in long term contracts with the cable companies.I have to disagree or it would not be on pretty much every other box like Roku, XBOX etc. The reason for the HBO Go on the Apple TV (and every other box) is because you would not need a Cable STB to watch it. I.E. You would save the $6-$10 per month for the Cable STB (for EVERY TV that you do not need the Cable Box for).

tuxon86
Jun 8, 2012, 12:56 PM
I won't. Not until it supports mkv ;)

Just remux them to m4v, which is quite quick, and that hurdle is gone.

gmfeier
Jun 8, 2012, 12:57 PM
...and here's why:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/mobile-news/kickstarter-project-turns-any-tv-into-an-ice-cream-sandwich-computer/8110?tag=search-results-rivers;item0

Peace
Jun 8, 2012, 12:58 PM
They're going to need a bigger Apple TV.
Perhaps even with a coax connector.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 12:58 PM
Comcast, DirectTV, all these providers, you name it . . . they're stuff we have to put up with to get what we want. What consumer actually wants to deal with them? Who actually wants them involved? Nobody.

Who provides your broadband? Are they also sellers of cable TV subscriptions? It doesn't matter if you are right (that nobody wants their cable company involved). As long as the cable TV provider also own the broadband pipe, they'll get theirs. Even if an Apple replacement option could completely replace cable TV revenues, the cable company will just increase the cost for broadband to make up for those losses. Net cost to us? More (because it will still be the same cost for the broadband PLUS whatever Apple's replacement will cost).

I love the dream (too). But the practical reality is that until there is a realistic rumor that would allow those broadband gatekeepers to be cut out of the relationship (meaning direct link from iCloud to us), there is no version of the dream that will allow the cable companies to be jettisoned from the relationship. It's not a factor of just greed either. As public companies, the cable companies are obligated to maximize profits. They don't do that by just handing over the cash cow that is cable TV subscriptions to the likes of Apple or similar... especially when Apple's replacement must depend on cable's broadband pipes.

the8thark
Jun 8, 2012, 12:59 PM
I believe this is the TV thing Jobs mentioned in his biography. Not a physical TV set. But an update to the TV. So the developers can take it into the future.

Apple making a physical television? Not gonna happen in the foreseeable future in my opinion. All the rumours? Just from people who can't see the glasses on the end of their noses. The believe what they want to believe.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 12:59 PM
the content owners drive for sales will motivate them to add more and more content to iTunes.

If they were smart they would add more and enhance the quality, timing and pricing already. Forget waiting for Apple to do anything. Especially release a full tv set.

And do one other thing. Publicly announce that they are adding all iTunes etc sales to the budget make good on all tv shows.

The top three reasons folks give for 'justifying' torrents especially for tv shows is timing, price and quality. Then they tag on "I'm not a ratings viewer so it doesn't matter what I do."

Make it so that everyone counts no matter how they view something. A lot of those 'what does it matter' folks will go legit if they feel that they get a vote and all those Firefly, Fringe, Eureka, Terra Nova, Jericho etc cult campaigns will die out because they can have a say in keeping the show on the air from day one by literally putting their money where their mouths are. If a show really sucks so much that Ratings, downloads, streaming etc can't raise enough money to at least cover the budget well you can't blame the networks they gave it more than enough chances.

And fix the other three, especially timing and quality. Those 4 things could do more to cut back piracy than all the lawsuits in the world.

----------

I find it more likely that Apple will update the iOS API to allow developers to program a second screen for their apps.


They already can.

tuxon86
Jun 8, 2012, 01:01 PM
The problem is, MKV is a container format.

So supporting MVK, in a general sense, means implementing many, many codecs or at least allowing 3rd parties to implement these codecs.

It ALSO means providing the hardware to run these codecs effectively for common video sources.

That's where this idea breaks down. ATV is probably going to need to be expensive (not to mention bigger) to contain the hardware to run the codecs people might want to use with their mkvs and will either have to write (or port) and support a lot of codecs or open the system to let 3rd parties supply those codecs. I can't see Apple doing either of these.

Edit: more likely, is that various 3rd-party apps will provide partial mkv support, based on codecs already included with ATV.

The vast majority of MKV available are just containing h264 avc video which is compatible with the ATV and can be easilly remux in an M4V container. The audio may needs to be processed if it is something other than AC3 or AAC, but that isn't really something that is difficult or time consuming. There is also the question of subtitles which have to be "burned" in for the ATV, but even that is easy with Handbrake.

darkslide29
Jun 8, 2012, 01:04 PM
So when does the iPad become 16x9?
Looks like I wont be buying an iPad 3 any time soon.

16:9 may be OK for a phone, but it makes for a really awkward experience for a tablet in portrait mode, in my opinion.

However, I see your point. If you do one, why not both..

WannaGoMac
Jun 8, 2012, 01:07 PM
I am running on a fusion motherboard. I can playback high bitrate 1080p stuff without a single dropped frame.

:)

I was tempted to get a e-450 fusion HTPC ... but with Apple TV maybe getting apps I rather have a device and use Plex :)

chirpie
Jun 8, 2012, 01:07 PM
I believe it is 256MB.. Although maybe the 3rd gen :apple:tv has 512MB?

EVerything I've read says AT3 is 512. But yeah, 256 was AT2.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Apple-TV-3-Has-512MB-RAM-259397.shtml

foodog
Jun 8, 2012, 01:07 PM
Hyperbole much? Do you work for Apple marketing? Yeah I'm sure Comcast and DirecTV are quaking in their boots right now. :p

You have a point.
The mp3 player manufacturers turned out OK, Nokia is still cranking out phones like mad and Blackberry is the picture of health.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 01:08 PM
Somehow I doubt all of this will be announced at WWDC. We get all these wild rumors and the actual event never lives up to them.

Agreed. Personally I don't think any of the hardware will be discussed beyond how it impacts the software.

The three main focuses will be iOS 6, Mountain Lion and perhaps this Apple TV SDK if it is real. Plus some more iCloud stuff like new APIs to work with the other software. Like if there is a new Maps App that is all in-house perhaps there will be iCloud syncing for dropped pins, tagging favorite routes and/or areas to avoid etc. Stuff like that is what I think they will talk about.

The hardware will just happen. Site goes down Sunday night, comes back around noon on Monday post keynote with all the keynoted info as well as the new hardware. Or they might give a quickie 10 minute rush through of the new hardware. The broad strokes with 'more information about the details will be on the website shortly and you'll be able to buy these new systems next week'.

2bikes
Jun 8, 2012, 01:11 PM
So if this happens, how will they differentiate AppleTV with a rumored TVset? That will be interesting to see.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 01:11 PM
Totally agree.

After the Apple TV puck-sized box is 'official' (and not a hobby anymore), I can see Apple creating an all-in-one device where the Apple TV unit is integrated into a display,

I think the only way they would do that is if it can also be used as a basic display. A revamped Retina quality Cinema Display with HDMI etc to could hook up your Blu-ray, your Mac Mini/Pro, your old Xbox etc. Maybe even enough kick it could handle 3D (the 'disney' style being the first they would look at of course)

davva360
Jun 8, 2012, 01:12 PM
Could be very exciting news. I have said all along that I am more interested in Apple revolutionizing the subscription system rather than inventing a display which will be like all the others.

Apple TV with app based channels done at a reasonable price could be an awesome way out of my cable subscription.

w00master
Jun 8, 2012, 01:12 PM
Comcast and DirecTV should be taking the Apple TV seriously.

There are 5 families in my circle who have now 'cut the cord' and use a combination of over-the-air TV (with Tivo DVRs), Apple TVs. This is all because of them upset at the cost of cable, and seeing our free solution since 2009. If it weren't for me showing them what is possible out there, they would still be with cable. I talk to people every day who don't understand that television can be much cheaper, and there are devices out there (not necessarily Apple TV, but Tivo and Roku as well). Most people don't know this, or think it's too complicated to switch.

I think once Apple's marketing arm gets this out there, Comcast, Time/Warner, DirecTV, etc. will be in trouble. Funny thing is, this will be a complete roll reversal. Apple will be going for the cheap/less features television crowd while Comcast, T/W, DirecTV, etc. will be going for the more expensive/more features crowd.


Ahem. Sports. This is at least 10+ years in the making. Not overnight. Sorry, I totally agree with you (and in fact, I've "cut the cable" too), but the reality is... this is 10+ years in the making.

Beyond sports? HBO.

There reason HBO does not have a stand alone app is because they are literally a part of Time Warner and DEEPLY in bed with the cable/satellite industries.

None of this is going to happen any time soon.

w00master

E.Lizardo
Jun 8, 2012, 01:13 PM
Guess I'll stop thinking about a roku for the moment(already have an aTV)

steve-p
Jun 8, 2012, 01:14 PM
You have a point.
The mp3 player manufacturers turned out OK, Nokia is still cranking out phones like mad and Blackberry is the picture of health.
And just like the small print always says: "Past performance is no guarantee of future results".

inkswamp
Jun 8, 2012, 01:14 PM
if Apple were to release an iTV it would obviously run the same OS as the :apple:TV. It makes sense to continue beefing up the OS in preparation. Especially if Apple wants to make an app store for the iTV. Now there are millions of :apple:TV's all over the world that will give a greater incentive to devs. Can you imagine if apple said "Ok devs, start making some apps for this $1,500-$2,000 tv that I'm gonna be releasing in a few months. I have no idea how successful it'll be, but give it a shot!"

People go where the apps are, apps are built where the people are. If you start out at zero it's kinda tough to get either one.

That makes sense. After I posted my question, it also occurred to me that it would actually make sense for Apple to keep the AppleTV on the market even after they've released a TV set. No reason to ignore the sizable chunk of the market that might want the AppleTV experience without replacing their current TV.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 8, 2012, 01:14 PM
And fix the other three, especially timing and quality. Those 4 things could do more to cut back piracy than all the lawsuits in the world.

Not finding fault with your post, but my point was more about the reasoning that iTunes is not loaded with everything video is the industry's interest in not getting dominated by Apple like their cousins in the music industry are. Basically, they don't want to make the same mistake of allowing one company to dictate terms like pricing. So they'll go out of their way to support other channels for video... often at better pricing than the same can be had via iTunes.

I wonder if "I cracked it" and this rumored App store model is Apple finally capitulating that the video industry is never going to do the deals with Apple to allow Apple to replicate how it attained domination over the music industry. Maybe this app store waited this long while Apple tried everything to talk the video industry into an iTunes-dominated concept. Then, when that failed, Apple finally realized the way forward would be to go with the app model. Sure the latter means lots of video might flow to the box from sources other than iTunes but 30% of those revenues will taste quite sweet.

Then, if apps do for this box what they did for the other iDevices, flash forward a year or two when this box is heavily entrenched in many homes. At that point, iTunes evolves a bit more and Apple has much greater leverage in trying to woo the Studios into providing more video content for the iTunes store (and maybe some kind of Apple subscription offering). 30% via app revenues now, potential music-like domination later. Same destination... just via a different path.

Piracy issues are certainly on their minds too but that would argue for making everything available everywhere at great prices. And for the hard-core pirate, a "great" price can never compete with free.

boilingpoint
Jun 8, 2012, 01:16 PM
1. iOS6 rel
2. OSX ML rel
3. TV SDK rel (and will sell ATV HW platform to TV mfgrs to integrate it into their TV later this year)
4. new MBA, MBP (MB ?)
5. new MacPad

I always love :apple:

pun555
Jun 8, 2012, 01:17 PM
Finally we get some apps in Apple Tv

mdelvecchio
Jun 8, 2012, 01:17 PM
If we can get some XMBC and Plex action like this on the 1080p Apple TV and not worry about jailbreaking I'll buy 3.

this!

pink thing
Jun 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
Just remux them to m4v, which is quite quick, and that hurdle is gone.

Yes, but I have a LOT of h.264 in MKV, so its a major conversion job that I'm trying to avoid :)

foodog
Jun 8, 2012, 01:26 PM
And just like the small print always says: "Past performance is no guarantee of future results".

No its not, but the insanely high cable bills makes them ripe for them going the way of Blackberry.

----------

Come on Watch ESPN!

If Apple can land ESPN content that will remove a big hurdle to a lot of people that currently cannot cut the cord to the cable company.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 01:29 PM
I'm not after what the little box can do, I want a bigger solution...The all-in-one TV.

Apple, if you want my $1500 for a 40"+ TV this is what I want:

IOS integrated with built-in Cable box

Never happen. Why? Because Apple has their own content solution and Cable is direct competition to that. They want to eliminate the need for Cable not help you keep it around.

Not to mention the patents they would have to license for the tech to do that. No way are they going to get into that bag of hurt.

----------

but because they are not capable of that level of showmanship.

That's kind of the point. They can't do it because they aren't showman and aren't trying to be. They could find a showman but they don't want that either. They want folks talking about the products not the presenter. Because it's the products that make the money.

----------

I have to disagree or it would not be on pretty much every other box like Roku, XBOX etc. The reason for the HBO Go on the Apple TV (and every other box) is because you would not need a Cable STB to watch it. I.E. You would save the $6-$10 per month for the Cable STB (for EVERY TV that you do not need the Cable Box for).

You save money on the box but you still have to have the service for such apps to work no matter which box you are on.

Tinmania
Jun 8, 2012, 01:29 PM
I've had directv for years now and am very happy with their service. I think the number of people fed up with cable/satellite TV is greatly exaggerated.
Maybe you just need to pull away from the TV for a few minutes and look around: many people are indeed fed up with cable and satellite providers. But it's much worse than that for the industry in its current form. People are starting to tire of TV in general.

That's why a client note from the media analysts at Citigroup this week, which highlighted the ratings drop-off that cable TV networks as a group are experiencing, caught my eye. The Citigroup note follows a recent WSJ report explaining that 11 of the top 15 cable networks have lost audience this year, including a whopping 25% decline at Nickelodeon among its kids 2-11. Citigroup said that for each of the last 6 months, cable's total day ratings decline has actually accelerated, from 2.3% last October to 7.8% in March.

Citigroup's main concern about this ratings drop-off is that cable networks' ad revenue growth is slowing as well, in turn pressuring their media company owners' valuations. While that is surely a worry for investors, an even broader issue to consider is whether the drop-off in cable's ratings is the tip of the OTT iceberg, signaling that the explosion of online-delivered alternatives is beginning to impact viewership patterns. While it's too early to conclude this, all of the elements that would drive OTT's rise - at cable's expense - appear to be falling into place.

Chief among them is growth in connected TVs, enabling the OTT experience to migrate to the living room. This week's report from Leichtman Research, that 38% of U.S. households now have at least one TV connected to the Internet (up from 24% just 2 years ago), is a tangible indicator of how mainstream online video viewing has become. A surprising driver of the connected TV trend has been the massively-popular Xbox, which has lately been rolling out new video apps and is now used more for watching video than for playing games. There is no question that the connected TV trend is gathering steam; within several years the majority of U.S. homes will have one.

http://www.videonuze.com/article/is-the-cable-ratings-drop-off-the-tip-of-the-ott-iceberg-



Michael

hissyfit
Jun 8, 2012, 01:32 PM
I was just thinking last night, "if only i had other apps on my apple tv and didn't have to jailbreak it"! This would be a great addition to my entertainment world as, I no longer pay for cable!

bbeagle
Jun 8, 2012, 01:36 PM
If Apple can land ESPN content that will remove a big hurdle to a lot of people that currently cannot cut the cord to the cable company.

That would be big - but something UNIQUE would make the Apple TV really take off.

Like some live reality show like Big Brother or Jersey Shore where the users could actually INTERACT with the contestants/stars on the show. Much like webcam sites work, but with actual hollywood stars, and an actual story and plot where people did not have to interact but COULD.

Or a football game where you could actually be the coach for a play or two and make the offensive play call from your couch.

And where the interface is only possible on an Apple TV type device, and would take too long to upgrade all the users of a Time/Warner or Comcast type system.

If some type of NEW thing is created and is ONLY available on the Apple TV, this would be the start of something that would really scare the Time/Warner, Comcasts of the world.
(AND THIS CAN BE DONE WITH AN APP, AIRPLAY and an IPAD VERY SOON if Apple opens up the Apple TV to apps)

KDNYC
Jun 8, 2012, 01:36 PM
You have a point.
The mp3 player manufacturers turned out OK, Nokia is still cranking out phones like mad and Blackberry is the picture of health.

This. The success of the iPod + iTunes has not been duplicated with other industries. Apple plugged into the mp3 hardware/software niche at exactly the right time. Even the iPhone's dominance is held in check by the expensive carrier contracts required. Consider the design of the Apple TV ... it's more an accessory than a front-and-center product. I'm not sad at all that Apple can't create a proprietary foothold; this works in favor of the consumer.

ctdonath
Jun 8, 2012, 01:38 PM
Anyone notice this rumor appeared just 3 days before it happens (or, well, doesn't)? It's really a big deal (whole new major platform for development) yet nothing, not a peep, until one business day in advance.

charlituna
Jun 8, 2012, 01:39 PM
Not finding fault with your post, but my point was more about the reasoning that iTunes is not loaded with everything video is the industry's interest in not getting dominated by Apple like their cousins in the music industry are.



A point you made like 3 pages after what I was responding to and quoting.


Basically, they don't want to make the same mistake of allowing one company to dictate terms like pricing.

We are on a different playing field than the labels were when the deals you are referring to were made. At that point Apple was the only game in town. The choice was take Apple's rules or don't play. No one held a gun to anyone to make them agree. They saw potential value even under Apple's rules so they said yes. it was only after it took off that they wanted control and so they bargained for it and got it and now the labels set the pricing on iTunes etc.

When the nets and studios entered the game the field was a lot different and they had way more favorable cards. Which is they have and still do control the timing, the pricing etc. They are the ones that hold back things like Game of Thrones until weeks after the home video release. They are the ones that decide what is and isn't available in HD etc. Not Apple. If Apple was the one with the power everything would be 1080p, all seasons, right off the OTA, globally available etc. And easily half the price it is now. Because that's what would make the sales. But they aren't and never have been

d21mike
Jun 8, 2012, 01:45 PM
For the cord cutters that feel they will save a lot of money by just getting internet and streaming the content from someone else.

I was curious so I check the prices of basic TV and Internet and the bundle. I did this quick so could be a problem with my analysis.

Here is the link so you can check:
http://www22.verizon.com/home/shop/shopping.htm

15/5 Internet ONLY ==> $54.99
TV Only for 210 Channels ==> $64.99

Bundle BOTH together ==> $79.99

So an extra $20 per month for 210 Channels of TV.

I think what most have been saying is that when you DROP TV you can not DROP High Speed Internet. They will just raise the price of Internet if you ONLY want Internet or they will impose CAPS. I do not understand the big complaints about getting the TV Content from the current providers of Broadband.

My complaint has always been with the hardware. DVR's and other STB's that you have to RENT for every single TV instead of getting an Apple TV for a one time cost of $99. To me this is where the big savings will come from.