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arn
Nov 4, 2002, 10:57 AM
PowerPage posted an update overnight that suggests that Powerbooks won't be updated until MacWorld SF 2003.

The problem was the entire story wasn't available due to database issues, and now the whole site isn't coming up.

Just a heads up... I'll post more if they come back online.

arn

Kid Red
Nov 4, 2002, 11:11 AM
I believe TS over powerpage. They posted some portable specs last time out that were way off.

technocoy
Nov 4, 2002, 11:14 AM
I can't deal with this anymore!!! I want a revised powerbook so bad!!! this up and down, revision, no revision!!!! it's killing MMEEEEEE!!!!1:confused:

technocoy
Nov 4, 2002, 11:53 AM
ok,
i just applied a little mac logic.... if the ibook upgrade match the speculation, then their is no way that apple will not upgrade the ti until MWSF, simply because, INHO, they will not let a ibook with 32 megs of video and 800 mhz co-exist with a 32 meg video 800 mhz g4 powerbook....

good, i've talked myself into a calm state of mind:)

arn
Nov 4, 2002, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by technocoy
ok,
i just applied a little mac logic.... if the ibook upgrade match the speculation, then their is no way that apple will not upgrade the ti until MWSF, simply because, INHO, they will not let a ibook with 32 megs of video and 800 mhz co-exist with a 32 meg video 800 mhz g4 powerbook....

good, i've talked myself into a calm state of mind:)

:)

I'm a bit torn on this too... with all the rumors about Powerbook upgrade floating around, PowerPage must be pretty sure to post to the contrary... As well, I'd heard the PowerBook release date were more in question, than the iBooks perse.

make me nervous...

arn

cb911
Nov 4, 2002, 02:05 PM
if there isn't a 9000 in the TiBook this revision then i'd rather wait until MWSF for it.

iMax
Nov 4, 2002, 02:30 PM
i know its pretty easy to upgrade a graphics card in a desktop... but how about a notebook, or specifically, a powerbook?

Would it be possible to stick a raedon 9000 w/ 64MB into a Tibook after it was released?

the future
Nov 4, 2002, 02:30 PM
German page macnews.de reports on what powerpage.org had to say about new powerbooks after MWSF (before their server went down):

"Demnach soll ein neues Gehäuse mit mehr Metall im Inneren für eine bessere Kühlung sorgen. Gemunkelt wird auch über ein 16 Zoll großes Display. Die TFT-Monitore der PowerBooks sollen durch eine neue Hintergrundbeleuchtung zudem heller ausfallen. Eine automatische Anpassung der Prozessorgeschwindigkeit soll die Batterielaufzeit verlängern."
Translation:
new enclosure with more metallic parts inside for better cooling; 16 inch TFT; brighter background lighting, thus brighter TFTs; longer battery runtime due to automatic adjustment of cpu speed.

They DO NOT think this would rule out speedbumped powerbooks on november 5/6.

MrMacMan
Nov 4, 2002, 03:00 PM
OH G*D this is getting confusing... :eek:
I can't stand it!
:jumps out of window:
AH I HATE LIVING ON THE FIRST FLOOR!!
:goes to second floor:
:jumps out of window:
:lands in pool: Pool, okay Who put the pool here? :rolleyes:
God really, their are so many conflicting reports.
:picks random insanity product: OKAY EVERYONE APPLE IS RE-RELEASING THE CUBE!!! :D :D

nassau
Nov 4, 2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
picks random insanity product: OKAY EVERYONE APPLE IS RE-RELEASING THE CUBE!!!


i heard this rumor too, they said it would be an iCube, small as a dice. and the numbers/dots on the dice are small apples.

kfury
Nov 4, 2002, 03:15 PM
This week: Tibook refresh.

MWSF: New TiBook form factors, augmenting (not replacing) the existing TiBook design. Remember the 14" iBook at MWSF02? Now it's the TiBook's turn.

impierced
Nov 4, 2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by kfury
This week: Tibook refresh.

MWSF: New TiBook form factors, augmenting (not replacing) the existing TiBook design. Remember the 14" iBook at MWSF02? Now it's the TiBook's turn.

Hmmm... TiBook refresh this week and then 2 months later, the introduction of new PowerBook G4s? I rather doubt that Apple would do that.

Either one of two things is going to happen...

#1 Refreshed PowerBook G4s this week and new PowerBook in 6-8 months.
- or -
#2 No refresh this week and new PowerBooks in 2 months at MWSF.

Personally, I think I'd rather it be #2.

Upright Joe
Nov 4, 2002, 03:35 PM
I didn't read the PowerPage writeup for the PowerBooks as indicating it wouldn't be upgraded until MWSF. It looked to me like there would be a furthur revision at MWSF.

Even if they were implying that it wouldn't get updated until MWSF, I still expect a Ti update this week. We can already be reasonably sure that the price is dropping. We know inventory is getting low at distributers. It's getting bumped.

srobert
Nov 4, 2002, 03:41 PM
<RANDOM NONSENSE RAMBLING>

...quit making fun of my cube. The poor thing went straight from being the new kid on the block to being a collectible relic. I love it anyway, would'nt part from it for $2000 bucks. (I'm open for $2001+ offers though ^_^... a wad-o-cash is a wad-o-cash after all.)

</ RANDOM NONSENSE RAMBLING>

impierced
Nov 4, 2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Upright Joe
I didn't read the PowerPage writeup for the PowerBooks as indicating it wouldn't be upgraded until MWSF. It looked to me like there would be a furthur revision at MWSF.

Even if they were implying that it wouldn't get updated until MWSF, I still expect a Ti update this week. We can already be reasonably sure that the price is dropping. We know inventory is getting low at distributers. It's getting bumped.

Don't think you read anything different, you just didn't use common sense after reading it. :p

Apple would never bump their laptops and then in 60 days release all new PowerBooks that would replace the existing PowerBook G4 Ti lineup.

MOM
Nov 4, 2002, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by technocoy
I can't deal with this anymore!!! I want a revised powerbook so bad!!! this up and down, revision, no revision!!!! it's killing MMEEEEEE!!!!1:confused:

There is an old saying:

If you can't take the rumors then stay out of the forums ;-)

MOM

P.S. don't forget to vote!!

Upright Joe
Nov 4, 2002, 03:49 PM
Apple would never bump their laptops and then in 60 days release all new PowerBooks that would replace the existing PowerBook G4 Ti lineup.
If it's a small speed bump or something requring virually 0 change to the rest of the hardware, why not?

We're coming up on the Christmas season for which they've got to be as competitive as possible. Why not slap a faster G4 in there, drop the price a bit and kick it out the door to boost Christmas sales as best as possible? It seems reasonable to me anyhow...

(Plus people don't seem to have much confidence for PowerPage in regard to its accuracy)

impierced
Nov 4, 2002, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Upright Joe

If it's a small speed bump or something requring virually 0 change to the rest of the hardware, why not?

We're coming up on the Christmas season for which they've got to be as competitive as possible. Why not slap a faster G4 in there, drop the price a bit and kick it out the door to boost Christmas sales as best as possible? It seems reasonable to me anyhow...

(Plus people don't seem to have much confidence for PowerPage in regard to its accuracy)

What I was saying though was that if Apple does the bump (new dance craze?) this week, then I don't see the PowerBooks getting another rev again until mid 2003, certainly not MWSF.

I think Apple will release a minor bump with a price cut to get the Ti Book into the hands of more people, but it'll be a lackluster bump.

Personally, I'll be waiting another 6-8 months to upgrade my exisiting 500MHz TiBook.

Upright Joe
Nov 4, 2002, 03:59 PM
Oh, I thought you were saying we would see an update at MWSF and not this week. My mistake.

Yeah, if I had a 500MHz TiBook, I'd wait too... I don't have an apple portable right now... I use an old B&W that I've updgraded to a G4 550 and a Dell laptop running Win2k. I'm trying to hold out for a PowerBook with a SuperDrive but I want an apple laptop so badly that I might cave with this revision even without a SuperDrive.

renik
Nov 4, 2002, 04:25 PM
I wouldn't completely discount the possibility of two distinct revisions.

Do you guys remember the sawtooth(i think that's what it is was called, correct me if I'm wrong)? Apple came out with the G4 chip in the old enclosure just in time for the holidays to boost sales and shortly threafter had a major revision to the desktop.

Maybe a new powerbook is in the works for MWNY (or soon after) and apple just needs a way to boost holiday sales.

impierced
Nov 4, 2002, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by renik
I wouldn't completely discount the possibility of two distinct revisions.

Do you guys remember the sawtooth(i think that's what it is was called, correct me if I'm wrong)? Apple came out with the G4 chip in the old enclosure just in time for the holidays to boost sales and shortly threafter had a major revision to the desktop.

Maybe a new powerbook is in the works for MWNY (or soon after) and apple just needs a way to boost holiday sales.

You mean *Yikes*, the intro of the G4 chip in the new enclosure, however, Apple also announced the *Sawtooth* at the same time, but shipping on the *Sawtooth* was delayed.

Scab Cake
Nov 4, 2002, 04:57 PM
Okay, so I'm not even remotely informed on this subject, but hey, might as well speculate.

Here's what I think is gonna happen:

New iBooks will be released with the $200 price cuts on all levels at 700 MHz and 800 MHz, just as the rumors have been saying. Check out xlr8yourmac.com and look at the top story.

As for the Powerbooks, I'd be willing to bet that they get internal Bluetooth without any speed bumps, but there will also be a price drop. THAT way, they can release new Powerbooks at Mac World in January.

I dunno, what do you guys think? I'm just taking all of the rumors and putting them together so it makes some sort of sense to me.

P.S. Off topic...Any of you with dual GHz machines and faster running Jaguar...I am totally jealous. I tried it for the first time today and it blows my single 867 out of the water. I need me a Powerlogix upgrade card. :)

redAPPLE
Nov 4, 2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by cb911
if there isn't a 9000 in the TiBook this revision then i'd rather wait until MWSF for it.

u really think they would revise the TI in january again?

:o

redAPPLE
Nov 4, 2002, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by renik
I wouldn't completely discount the possibility of two distinct revisions.

Do you guys remember the sawtooth(i think that's what it is was called, correct me if I'm wrong)? Apple came out with the G4 chip in the old enclosure just in time for the holidays to boost sales and shortly threafter had a major revision to the desktop.

Maybe a new powerbook is in the works for MWNY (or soon after) and apple just needs a way to boost holiday sales.

i think they would increase sales more, if they bring out the real deal now.

i would not buy a product which is not up to my "standards".

Nebrie
Nov 4, 2002, 05:25 PM
People, look at this from a position of basic logic.

Going by what you people are saying:
If they release new Powerbooks this week, it will take until roughly Thanksgiving to flood the channel and for stores such as Compusa to have it in stock. Then they will have exactly four weeks to sell the new powerbooks. Then they will take two to three weeks to drain the channel, then fill it with completely new redesigned Powerbooks.

This is not even close to possible now. The costs and logistics would be a complete nightmare. Apple is not going to do this especially when it has to pinch costs. Even if they added a superdrive, that wouldn't happen till March. Be realistic.

Hawthorne
Nov 4, 2002, 05:44 PM
I think this site always has the best rumors (http://crazyapplerumors.com/) . Besides here, of course :D

motowatch
Nov 4, 2002, 05:53 PM
Motorola's semiconductor division has been piss poor performer in new technologies and an anchor for companies such as SUN, Data General, Next, Apple and their own computers as well as high end embedded systems. Now they even loosing out on the next generation Palm. Moto's semi division is on the trailing edge of IP and almost always late to execute in delivering new products. With TI, IBM, and Intel roaring into the telecom infrastructure and networking arena, it's just a matter of time before their remaining customers wake up and dump them.

Over Achiever
Nov 4, 2002, 06:13 PM
Ok, my opinion.

The powerbook will be updated this week, faster processors, but no superdrive. There might be a price drop.

At MWSF, Jobs announces a superdrive for the ti-book, and offers a two month upgrade your powerbook for XXX$ amount of money.

Otherwise upgrades two months apart makes no sense. ;)

Over Achiever
Nov 4, 2002, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Hawthorne
I think this site always has the best rumors (http://crazyapplerumors.com/) . Besides here, of course :D

A gotta admit that site can be really funny! Apple releases... you have to see the site to believe the crazy apple rumors they have over there;)

cyks
Nov 4, 2002, 07:10 PM
What's the confusion about? Apple cuts the prices of the P and i Books... and updates just the iBook... in 2 months- they update the PBook line.
Still a great deal for the holidays.

And....just to make sure they don't annoy people to much- they'll probably raise the price back up to "normal" when they update the PBook like at MWSF.

Makes sense to me. No?

ryan
Nov 4, 2002, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by cyks
What's the confusion about? Apple cuts the prices of the P and i Books... and updates just the iBook... in 2 months- they update the PBook line.
Still a great deal for the holidays.

And....just to make sure they don't annoy people to much- they'll probably raise the price back up to "normal" when they update the PBook like at MWSF.

Makes sense to me. No?
Yes, that was my thought too. Apple boosts the sales of the TiPB not by adding features but by lowering it's price for the holiday buying season. I hope they don't raise the prices again once the revised models come out in a couple of months but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

shadowfax
Nov 4, 2002, 08:01 PM
is there any historical precedence for them to lower prices without upgrading?

TiChris
Nov 4, 2002, 08:28 PM
I discovered that the PowerBook picture (only link is there) wasn't found at Apple's hardware page. does this mean new models coming really soon?

http://www.apple.com/hardware/

vniow
Nov 4, 2002, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by TiChris
I discovered that the PowerBook picture (only link is there) wasn't found at Apple's hardware page. does this mean new models coming really soon?

http://www.apple.com/hardware/


It hasn't been there for months.http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/veronica/rolleyes.gif

solvs
Nov 4, 2002, 09:05 PM
So we have 2 possibilities.

The iBook gets an update and a price drop. And the TiBook gets a price drop. Nov. 5th or 6th. MWSF gets an all new, muy updated PowerBook with all sorts of new stuff.

Or...

Both get small updates internally, no new enclosures. Announced Nov. 5th or 6th. Possible small updates (SuperDrive in Ti, BlueTooth, USB2... FireWire2?) come MWSF.

Or some kinda mixture of the 2.

I'm so excited I'm... well, not really that excited. Now a 4 LB, 13" WideScreen, GHz iBook with 200 MHz FSB, 32 MB video card, 256-768 DDR-Ram, 40 GB 5400 RPM, DVD/CD-R/W, Bluetooth, FW 2, USB 2, etc. $1499. That would be exciting.

scem0
Nov 4, 2002, 09:06 PM
If it doesn't come out int he next 2 days then we can be pretty certain of a MWSF update. I am thinking apple will be smart enough not to do that.

shadowfax
Nov 4, 2002, 09:24 PM
yeah, scem0. you're excatly right. it would be horrendous business to hold off till after christmas. i mean, this is a pretty extravagant gift idea, but tech sales have to go up in the holiday season. apple needs to get in on that. of course, it might come later this month too. apple seems to like surprises these days.

MacEyeDoc
Nov 4, 2002, 10:05 PM
Just an idea - maybe they'll update the TiBooks now for a little Christmas pick-me-up and for all those that might want the ability to run OS 9 a little longer, and then announce a killer Jaguar or Panther-only TiBook in San Fran, which won't be available til, say, February.

cubist
Nov 4, 2002, 10:17 PM
... if they were only going to cut the prices, they wouldn't have let the supply dwindle to nothing. Look out there! Supplies are at zero!

reyesmac
Nov 4, 2002, 10:19 PM
If Apple want to make a quick buck they could just drop the price of the iPod by at least $100 so more people can afford to buy something with an Apple logo on it this xmas. Apple releases new models because after 6 months the technology in their computers is terribly overpriced and all the competition has beat them in speed and value. If Apple is lowering prices instead of making the iBooks much faster, then there is something wrong at Cupertino. They are playing it waaay to safe and do not want to put in new technology into their computers. Something doesnt seem right about this. Guess it will make more sense when they give us their sales pitch. If the thing they talk about most is price, they have no speed to offer us and will not for the forseeable future.

moo083
Nov 4, 2002, 11:04 PM
How long has it been since Apple released a TiBook? Almost a year now. As people have been saying, Apple is going to need to go for Christmas sales. BUT....Apple has never released an update and then another in so short a time. The reason being that it would have no clue what to do with the stock, and remember, the powerbooks are almost nowhere to be seen. So, lets organize the facts:

Powerbook supplies dwindling

Apple not releasing NEW powerbooks 60 days after other upgrade

Powerbooks need to compete with iBooks so if iBook gets upgraded, so does Powerbook

Apple needs to deal with Christmas sales

Apple has not upgraded the TiBook in a REALLY long time compared to their usual upgrading schedule

People are anxious for a massive upgrade with some nice stuff

_______________________________________
I have personally started expecting them to release something FAIRLY soon in late summer. It is now November. I don't think they could hold out much longer, and given my above summary, I think something big soon is inevitable.

shadowfax
Nov 4, 2002, 11:09 PM
actually the last revision was in april, much less than a year ago. in fact, it was about 7 months ago. they are right on schedule now, and it really wouldn't be too out of the ordinary to wait till january just from the apple product cycle perspective. it would also be stupid, IMO, but that is not the issue.

Gwindor
Nov 4, 2002, 11:23 PM
I really do hope Apple gives the Pbook a speed bump and a price drop, is this hoping for too much?

I'm convinced that whatever happens there will be a price drop at least. Due mainly to the Apple Loan images that reflected the price drops.

And look at the supplies out there, either "Limited Quantities" or "Out of Stock", there has to be something coming in the Pbook line.

I am in dire need of a portable (within the month) and really do not want to get a PC portable. But if Apple does not release a new Pbook with a speed bump and the ati 9000 then I can't rationalize buying a Pbook when there will likely be an upgrade at MWSF.

My desktop is a PC and it has never let me down. But when it comes to portability and graphic design you just can't beat a Mac.

*crosses fingers and toes*

Boomer Mac
Nov 4, 2002, 11:25 PM
Hi,

I'm happy to join this very interesting newsgroup.

This is the scenario I believe is going to play out:

This week Apple will drop the price on the PB's by $200 to stimulate sales before MWSF. Reason being that PB sales have slowed down over the last little while. Now they have two more months to work on possibly fitting a SuperDrive in and perhaps adding/perfecting certain other features.

Why would Apple come out with a new PB this week and then come out with a revised PB in two months? This is TOO hard to manage from an inventory and distribution aspect. History even shows that the cycle has always been 6-9 months. By the way, the PowerBook is not a Christmas product because it's a Pro product so a price drop would do for now.

Let's hope that Apple won't bump up the prices again once new PB's get introduced in MWSF. They are already expensive enough.

I'm hoping that I'm right on this one.

I guess we'll see in a couple of days.

Boomer Mac

Kid Red
Nov 4, 2002, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by Boomer Mac
Hi,

I'm happy to join this very interesting newsgroup.

This is the scenario I believe is going to play out:

This week Apple will drop the price on the PB's by $200 to stimulate sales before MWSF. Reason being that PB sales have slowed down over the last little while. Now they have two more months to work on possibly fitting a SuperDrive in and perhaps adding/perfecting certain other features.



Boomer Mac

The thing is, is that supply is limited NOW. Dropping the prices with no update and PB will be non existant WAY before Jan. Apple is going to drop the price on a dwindling suipply of PBs 2 1/2 months before the next possible release? That's stupid (not you, the idea) There hardly is any inventory to clear, so why clear nothing?

Cappy
Nov 5, 2002, 12:04 AM
Lets keep things in perspective with the big picture.

1. Apple rarely has any big hardware showings at the Macworld shows any longer thus that rules out most likely any new Powerbook updates.

2. Apple is fighting the same slow sales forecast that everyone else is. This means that inventory is going to be important. Which means if you haven't figured it out is that if systems are shipping quickly from Apple, expect a high amount of inventory from Apple after xmas which translates to not much new in January anyways. If shipping is 2-3 weeks and I doubt it will be, expect a rev or update in *maybe* late Feb. This prediction in particular applies much more since they're waiting until this late to possibly do a Powerbook update. Had they done it a little earlier, an update in Feb would have been a sure thing barring inventory issues.

3. This was already pointed out but I'll repeat anyways. Apple is unlikely to update the ibook to a speed that rivals the Powerbook unless they begin changing a few more feature sets.

With those points in mind I would expect something to happen on the high end of the Mac laptops. Note that it's very possible that Apple could add a third line of laptops in order to add variety on the high end. Keep the current Powerbooks and slash the price but intro a new even higherend version with even a different name. Unlikely due to inventory issues again but not out of the picture even though it would help with inventory of any excess stock they might have of Powerbooks stored away.

DementedOtaku
Nov 5, 2002, 01:01 AM
Hi hi! (i'm new)

Anyway, I didn't get to read what everyone said (there were just too many posts), but none the less, here's what I think:

There are too many rumors about the T4 Powerbook release date being Nov 6th. This one new rumor just doesn't match any others, so I'd feel fine about disregarding this one. As some of you said, it just wouln't make sense to have Apple upgrade the iBook and wait on the powerbook for another 2 months.

I'm saving up for this new Powerbook myself, and even though it's only a few days left, I feel like I'm becoming impatient. If it gets held back till MWSF03, I don't know WHAT i'd do! AAAA!

suzerain
Nov 5, 2002, 01:13 AM
...what's variable bus timing, in layman's terms? why is it good for a powerbook in particular?

does it mean what it sounds like...that the bus speed is variable, as some sort of battery-saving measure or something?

yellowcab
Nov 5, 2002, 01:27 AM
its the 5th of november and wath does apple show us..................
nothing, it is ********** unbelieveble.
the next rumor will be over another 14 days?:p :mad: :D :)

arn
Nov 5, 2002, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by suzerain
...what's variable bus timing, in layman's terms? why is it good for a powerbook in particular?

does it mean what it sounds like...that the bus speed is variable, as some sort of battery-saving measure or something?

Yep... pretty much.

All laptops have some sort of processor cycling where the processor can kick down to a slower/lower consumption mode.

This "variable timing" is presumably different... but not many details are avail on it.

Here's the original news item by PowerPage:

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021021000007.shtml

arn

Somebody
Nov 5, 2002, 02:11 AM
This is the scenario I believe is going to play out:

This week Apple will drop the price on the PB's by $200 to stimulate sales before MWSF.


I could see this, if you add a speed bump to 800/933 (and maybe a Radeon 9000) to the update this week. Just dropping prices on current models by $200 isn't a very compelling update; I've been waiting a while for this update. If there's a decent speedbump, I'll buy (even without the price cut). But if there's no speed bump, I'll hold off until January.

orion
Nov 5, 2002, 02:47 AM
My take on this, for what its worth - some of this has been said before, but I'm just summarising...

If they increase the iBook to 800 then they HAVE to do something to the Ti - Apple has consistently maintained a "gap" between the iBook and Ti in terms of Mhz (some would say to the detriment of the iBook - 1.2GHz G3 anybody??). To me this suggest a minor speed bump (ie not to 1Ghz) for the Ti as well as the iBook. The fall in inventory, as others have consistently pointed out, also suggests an update, not just a price drop (although both would be nice).

Minor speed bump now and then something better in SF?? Simple answer is "I don't think so", I think we'll have to wait until after SF. However, if they do choose to announce something in SF, two possibilities spring to mind and of the two, I think the first is the more likely.

1. As suggested earlier, Steve announces addition of Superdrive with an upgrade programme for people who bought in 2002 - something similar to this HAS been done before (although I'm not exactly sure of the timings) when they speed-bumped the Ti and then brought out the Combo and upgrade programme a few months later
2. Bit of a shot in the dark this, but if the person who originated this story really HAS seen a 16 inch Ti, how about a "top of the range" Ti (aka the 14 inch iBook) 16 inch Ti with internal Superdrive announced at SF and available in Feb/March 2003?? If they charge enough for this (and knowing Apple if this is anywhere near to the truth then they most ceretainly WILL charge hugely for this), it shouldn't cut into the "normal" Ti sales too much (hey the debate about 12 and 14 inch iBooks is still going strong ("I prefer the 12 inch/no the 14 inch is better" etc etc)). Better graphics, higher resolution, bigger/faster HD, more RAM etc and Bluetooth as standard.
This option would also see the "matrix" evening out a bit more - 3 desktop models for education, consumer and professional (e-Mac, iMac and G4) and then the iBook becomes an "educational" model with the standard Ti being the consumer and the top of the range Ti being for professionals. This would also neatly get round the "I want a G4 in my iBook" problem if they reduced the price of the standard Ti so that more people could afford it. As I said, I don't think this will happen, but you never know...

Just my 2c as they say - all will be revealed soon...

Bregalad
Nov 5, 2002, 03:02 AM
I don't think we'll see ANY notebook upgrades at MWSF. I think January will feature the updated iMac (standardizing on the 17" LCD and maybe introducing a 19" model) while the PowerBook will wait until MW Tokyo where they have introduced a number of 'Books in the past. March is a more realistic time frame for a new form factor and move to Radeon 9000 or 9500 video along with an internal SuperDrive.

Thus the speed bump this week, if it happens, will probably have a 5 month shelf life, not the 2 months other people are talking about.

Of course by then Intel will have 3GHz notebook chips and we'll still be under 1GHz, but who's counting clock ticks?

Speaking of that battery sucking other platform, I do wish my iBook would actually demonstrate longer battery life than a Pentium notebook. Tonight it ran for 2 hours, during which time the battery indicator dropped from 99% to 51%, and then promptly went to sleep. Upon further investigation I found the battery was, in fact, drained. So much for having a useful battery level indicator in the menu bar or a decent run time away from an electrical outlet.

Falleron
Nov 5, 2002, 04:45 AM
This is what I think will happen.

1) Both laptops will be speed bumped this week.
2) MWSF, new powerbooks will be announced with faster processor, ddram, bluetooth, aiport 2, firewire 2 + superdrive.

BUT, it wont ship until the end of febuary.

Megaquad
Nov 5, 2002, 05:59 AM
I believe revised iBook is coming out these days and Powerbook is coming for MWSF
why?
Well, Apple knows lots of iBooks are used for education purpose and many of these people still use OS 9 (they said macs wont be able to boot os 9 after jan. 1).
While Powerbook is for professionals and such, they want to force them to use OS X which is ok with me.. I'm just a little bit concerned about some older games and installers that dont work in classic environment.

Megaquad
Nov 5, 2002, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by technocoy
I can't deal with this anymore!!! I want a revised powerbook so bad!!! this up and down, revision, no revision!!!! it's killing MMEEEEEE!!!!1:confused:
I am happy to see those Powerbooks delayed, it will give me some time to gather money, I hope I'll be able to get them while they're hot :D

Update, this would be perfect PB update for me:
15"/933 MHz/radeon, better case..
16"/Dual GHz/radeon 9000..
What do you think?

gotohamish
Nov 5, 2002, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by Bregalad
Speaking of that battery sucking other platform, I do wish my iBook would actually demonstrate longer battery life than a Pentium notebook. Tonight it ran for 2 hours, during which time the battery indicator dropped from 99% to 51%, and then promptly went to sleep. Upon further investigation I found the battery was, in fact, drained. So much for having a useful battery level indicator in the menu bar or a decent run time away from an electrical outlet.

Too bloody right, my ibook AND PowerBook get the juice sucked right out in Jaquar - I get two hours TOPS on each now.

iBook 500, and TiBook 500, both on 10.2.1

Aaargh!

aasmund
Nov 5, 2002, 07:28 AM
I think they will cut the price, no changes. and they will release a radeon 9000/bluetoooth /superdrive in mwsf

UnixMac
Nov 5, 2002, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Somebody


I could see this, if you add a speed bump to 800/933 (and maybe a Radeon 9000) to the update this week. Just dropping prices on current models by $200 isn't a very compelling update; I've been waiting a while for this update. If there's a decent speedbump, I'll buy (even without the price cut). But if there's no speed bump, I'll hold off until January.

CAN I GET AN AMEN BROTHER!

impierced
Nov 5, 2002, 08:51 AM
From the forums of MacNN as being "confirmed".

$2299, 867 G4, 30GB HD, 256MB Ram, Radeon 7500, Combo Drive.
$2999, 1GHz G4, 40GB HD, 512 MB Ram, Radeon 7500, Combo Drive.

I'd have to say this is extremely likely. Looks like I'll be waiting another 6-8 months, no way am I getting a new PowerBook without an updated graphics card, what crack is Apple smoking?

vincelee2000
Nov 5, 2002, 08:59 AM
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-964443.html

iBook gets speed bump while Powerbook only gets $200 price cut~~

Megaquad
Nov 5, 2002, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by impierced
From the forums of MacNN as being "confirmed".

$2299, 867 G4, 30GB HD, 256MB Ram, Radeon 7500, Combo Drive.
$2999, 1GHz G4, 40GB HD, 512 MB Ram, Radeon 7500, Combo Drive.

I'd have to say this is extremely likely. Looks like I'll be waiting another 6-8 months, no way am I getting a new PowerBook without an updated graphics card, what crack is Apple smoking?
There is NO WAY I will buy Titanium with radeon 7500. NO WAY!!!!!!!

akula47
Nov 5, 2002, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by vincelee2000
http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-964443.html

iBook gets speed bump while Powerbook only gets $200 price cut~~

That does not confirm jack. Some little editor over at c/net is just making a guess. The Powerbooks will be updated today/tomorrow. Atleast I hope so :)

technocoy
Nov 5, 2002, 09:07 AM
they may have caught the iCal thing, but there are new dates for the 6th on through dec.

Technocoy:(

akula47
Nov 5, 2002, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Megaquad

There is NO WAY I will buy Titanium with radeon 7500. NO WAY!!!!!!!

Maybe you should actually compare the cards, before you make that judgement call:

http://www17.tomshardware.com/mobile/02q3/020829/index.html#the_specifications_of_mobility_radeon_9000

Yes, the 9000 is a better card. Yes it uses less power. Yes it is faster. No, it is NOT that much faster.

bignumbers
Nov 5, 2002, 09:49 AM
Tomorrow, Apple will announce a quad-processor, 2GHz PowerBook G5. However it is not expected to ship until March of 2006.

I'm sure Apple would LOVE to announce a superdrive-equipped powerbook. I'll bet Steve is still on the phone with Panasonic begging for a few thousand slot-loading A05's. As soon as he gets the right answer they'll be announced. Until then, probably nothing major.

What they might do is pad the current PBG4 with more RAM or a larger HD to separate them from the new iBooks until January.

Hawthorne
Nov 5, 2002, 10:55 AM
[i]

Speaking of that battery sucking other platform, I do wish my iBook would actually demonstrate longer battery life than a Pentium notebook. Tonight it ran for 2 hours, during which time the battery indicator dropped from 99% to 51%, and then promptly went to sleep. Upon further investigation I found the battery was, in fact, drained. So much for having a useful battery level indicator in the menu bar or a decent run time away from an electrical outlet. [/B]

FWIW, I had the same problem with my new (not for long, sob!):) 700 mhz iBook. Turns out the battery was faulty, called Apple, they shipped a new one, and now I get 4+ hours in 10.2. You might give that a try.

ryan
Nov 5, 2002, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by akula47

That does not confirm jack. Some little editor over at c/net is just making a guess. The Powerbooks will be updated today/tomorrow. Atleast I hope so :)
I'll bet that article is spot on, anyone care to make it interesting?

Pentium Killer
Nov 5, 2002, 11:07 AM
They might also bring out a powerbook with souped up G3 with SIMD Unit(from IBM) at speeds of 1 GHZ and 1.2 GHZ and Buspeed of 200 MHZ and DDR-RAM.Guys,calm down....;) Tomorrow we will see what happens,and the fact that there might be no Radeon 9000 inside is not that bad,I care about processor speed.

mr evil brkfast
Nov 5, 2002, 11:08 AM
Perhaps we'll see a speed bump now and like the combo drive last year, a superdrive build to order when it is ready.

I think that apple has to update something before the end of the quarter. Price drops on dated technology will not make this a good quarter financially.

Bregalad
Nov 5, 2002, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Hawthorne


FWIW, I had the same problem with my new (not for long, sob!):) 700 mhz iBook. Turns out the battery was faulty, called Apple, they shipped a new one, and now I get 4+ hours in 10.2. You might give that a try.

If only it was that simple...
You see, like many others, I only have that problem running OS X (10.2.1). When running OS 9.2.2 the 'Book lasts 4 hours.

I know Apple's claims of 5 hours are for an idealized state in which the processor speed is reduced (I do that), the backlighting is turned low (I'm at about 30%) and the hard drive almost never spins up (can't seem to stop that from happening in OS X). I'm not expecting 5 hours because I know the AirPort networking requires power to operate, but 2 hours doing nothing more demanding than surfing the web is ridiculous. I'm tempted to make OS 9 my default again. *sigh*

DannyZR2
Nov 5, 2002, 12:32 PM
it seems with all dual towers, dual powerbooks should be on the way... if 867 and 933 are the magic numbers.. what about a low end 933 mhz powerbook and high-end dual 867 powerbook?

How awesome would that be? And isn't this needed to keep up with Apple's own towers?

I think so!

-just my 2

Upright Joe
Nov 5, 2002, 12:42 PM
I don't think dual notebooks are ever very likely due to power consumption and heat issues.

Two of last few remaining advantages of the G4's over intel and amd's latest offerings are the fact that they consume much less power and produce much less heat.

Jookbox
Nov 5, 2002, 12:46 PM
news.com is based on rumors?

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-964443.html?tag=fd_top

Hawthorne
Nov 5, 2002, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Jookbox
news.com is based on rumors?

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-964443.html?tag=fd_top

From that article: "according to sources"

Until it's announced by Apple, we only have rumors. The quality and reliablity of those rumors may vary (iWalk), but unless there's a leak like the Time Canada story, it's all rumors.

MacCoaster
Nov 5, 2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by akula47
Yes, the 9000 is a better card. Yes it uses less power. Yes it is faster. No, it is NOT that much faster.
Exactly our point! We need anything faster than now. We need anything to use less power. We need it to be better!

Snowy_River
Nov 5, 2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by impierced

Apple would never bump their laptops and then in 60 days release all new PowerBooks that would replace the existing PowerBook G4 Ti lineup.

Why not? They did it with the iBooks a year ago (more or less). They did a speed bump about this time of year, then at MWSF they released a revision to the line, including another speed bump and a larger screen. Is is so unbelievable that they'd do that here too?

Kid Red
Nov 5, 2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Jookbox
news.com is based on rumors?

http://news.com.com/2100-1040-964443.html?tag=fd_top

Well, it;s also the exact article from C/Net.

Kid Red
Nov 5, 2002, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Snowy_River


Why not? They did it with the iBooks a year ago (more or less). They did a speed bump about this time of year, then at MWSF they released a revision to the line, including another speed bump and a larger screen. Is is so unbelievable that they'd do that here too?

Well, yea. As someone else mentioned somewhere Apple would have to have these speed bumps ready to be released, then only do about a month's production, then stop and begin production on the new rev as well as clear inventory of the bump they just released.

A lot of work in 2 months and not very wise in a recession.

bkassing
Nov 5, 2002, 02:59 PM
I find the complaints about the powerbook being hot interesting as it seems as if people think it is just a powerbook problem. I have a Dell Inspiron that torches my lap if I use it as a laptop. I never find it a problem because I don't use it on my lap and don't anticpate doing so. So who cares if it is hot? I don't see why that's an issue.

Where I do see it as an issue is if it so hot inside it'll fry something in there.

Notebooks are hot. That's the way it is.

impierced
Nov 5, 2002, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Snowy_River


Why not? They did it with the iBooks a year ago (more or less). They did a speed bump about this time of year, then at MWSF they released a revision to the line, including another speed bump and a larger screen. Is is so unbelievable that they'd do that here too?

Your facts are a little jumbled.

Apple did a speed bump about this time last year, yes. October 16, 2001 they bumped the 12.1" iBook to 500 & 600 MHz (before it was only available at 500 MHz).

Then about two months later on January 7, 2002 they did indeed release a revision to the line, the 14.1" iBook. However, neither the 12.1", nor the 14.1" included any speed bumps, they remained at the 500 & 600 MHz offerings. There were no other additions to the iBook line besides offering a larger screen version.

It wasn't until May 20, 2002 that Apple did the additional speed bump you're referring to. Then they offered the line at 600 & 700 MHz. You'll also notice that it took a whole 7 months for the iBook line to receive the additional 100 MHz bump.

pejobass
Nov 5, 2002, 06:59 PM
I just saw that at MacwareHouse their special offers on the TI end on 11/9. does it mean that we have to wait until next week? :o

nickmcghie
Nov 5, 2002, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by bignumbers
Tomorrow, Apple will announce a quad-processor, 2GHz PowerBook G5. However it is not expected to ship until March of 2006.

Apple will be stuck at 2Ghz in 2006!?!? Oh no!! Thats defintely not good. By then, Intel will probably be at well over 10Ghz! :)

reyesmac
Nov 5, 2002, 08:04 PM
Just think, it would take a year and a half for Apple to reach 3ghz if they were to bump the speeds by 100mhz every month. Apple bumps up the speed of their macs every 6-9 months. I don't think anyone should hold their breath for Ghz parity with Intel chips. The best we will get for a while will be the new IBM chips, but that will only help Powermacs the first year it comes out. The iBooks will stay with G3's for at least one more year, the iMac will stay with G4's, and we will be farther and farther behind the competition. Now that Apple has given us all these iApps to ad value to their systems, what do they have up their sleeves to ad value to Macs this comming year? Who knows, I just hope we don't need fast Macs for anything, even games, for the forseeable future.

solvs
Nov 5, 2002, 08:17 PM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

There is NO WAY Apple would release a new TiBook, then totally revamp the product 2 months later. It looks like we'll be getting new iBooks with 800 MHz G3s and price cuts on all the notebooks. And I hope 32 MB video cards (but I doubt it). Apple has done this before, both 'Books had the same clock speed (500 G3 and 500 G4) and the same 8 MB video card. Then the TiBooks will be majorly overhauled at MWSF and iBooks could get a 1 GHz G3 at MW Tokyo (and better video card if it wasn't updated before).

Or the TiBooks get updated along with the iBooks in the next couple of days, but just get a speed bump (and maybe a Radeon 9000). Superdrive probably later. And probably same form factor. Anyone who thinks that Apple will release a new product, then completely revamp it just a couple of months later really is dreaming. It would be nice people, but it ain't never gonna happen.

Try not to be too disappointed.

Marzzz
Nov 5, 2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by bkassing
I find the complaints about the powerbook being hot interesting as it seems as if people think it is just a powerbook problem. I have a Dell Inspiron that torches my lap if I use it as a laptop. I never find it a problem because I don't use it on my lap and don't anticpate doing so. So who cares if it is hot? I don't see why that's an issue.
Notebooks are hot. That's the way it is.

I don't mind the heat that much, what I do mind is the fan noise that sounds like a hair dryer.....especially while using digital audio apps.

Stelliform
Nov 5, 2002, 09:02 PM
Smalldog has 74 - 667 new TiBooks in stock when they didn't have any last week.

Kid Red
Nov 5, 2002, 09:20 PM
Someone mentioned that Apple discounted a load of PBs to get them out of inventory. Those might be the ones trickling into the channel.

JtheLemur
Nov 5, 2002, 10:21 PM
Okay everyone, here is exactly what is going to happen:



EVERYONE is going to be disappointed.



(including me. i want a smaller iBook. Hmph. =)

Upright Joe
Nov 5, 2002, 10:24 PM
I still don't see the issue with believing a speed bump might be coming tomorrow because of the MWSF rumors.

Releasing a processor speed bump is a couple of months before a major revision is no big deal. You can use all the same hardware that you've been using. It's not like working in a new graphics adaptor, a faster bus, or a new screen. You can just shove in the new processor instead of the old one.

I'm assuming of course that the TiBooks either use a daugher card to set the clock multiplier or support the clock multiplier required for faster G4's right on the board. I can't imagine that a board redesign would be required for this bump.

Kid Red
Nov 5, 2002, 10:29 PM
The reason is as stated above a few times by myself and others.

Apple would have to have production going on these PBs to have enough to fill orders. Then they'd have to stop production and begin production on the new PBs which are rumored to sport a new enclosure. They'd only have 2 months to clear ALL the inventory of all the PBs they release tomorrow presummably.

Bottom line, if new PBs tomorrow, even if only speed bumps then no new PBs until at least March/May. There's no way Apple would have 2 production runs in 2 months on the same item, especailly during a recession.

Upright Joe
Nov 5, 2002, 11:06 PM
I have no problems believing that the new ones after this release won't be out until March or May.

I do have trouble believing that we will see a $1000 iBook with a faster processor than a $2300 powerbook though. Aside from AltiVec there is no performance difference between G3's and G4's. I'd have to guess that a few hundred MHz advantage given to a G3 would make it fairly competitive against a G4.

We'll have to wait until tomorrow but I'm fairly convinced we'll see a speed bump in the TiBooks. I would kill for a SuperDrive, and I don't think it's out of the question but I'm not expecting it tomorrow...

shadowfax
Nov 6, 2002, 12:42 AM
i should try to use this as an excuse to skip school. good thing there are internet computers at school... i am so anxious i can't even think about my college applications, not to mention my bloody homework!

orion
Nov 6, 2002, 07:45 AM
New Ti with 1Ghz AND a SUPERDRIVE!!! Only problem, $2999!!

UnixMac
Nov 6, 2002, 07:47 AM
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YYYYYYYY EEEEEEEEE SSSSSSSSS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

reflex
Nov 6, 2002, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by orion
New Ti with 1Ghz AND a SUPERDRIVE!!! Only problem, $2999!!

That's still less than the price for the basic model in Europe. But they did lower the prices, I suppose I should be happy about that.

jefhatfield
Nov 8, 2002, 03:15 PM
ok, this is a stretch...but wouldn't it be nice to see something new to the laptops in mwsf?

i know for sure there will be new software and new desktop improvements for this coming january and i am looking forward to it

but apple needs to catch up in the worst way and frequent improvements are the way to go

bump speed up more frequently, get ddr in tibook, get g4 in ibook, constantly lower prices

that is what dell is doing...i just got a big flyer in the mail from dell and they are upping their stats yet again and using cheaper prices

if pentium 4 machines get any cheaper than $499 us, there won't ever be any need for an intel celeron

the mobile athlon/athlon xp systems have come so far down in price i don't see the mobile duron chip anywhere

anthonymoody
Nov 8, 2002, 04:12 PM
I agree that it would be nice, however Dell's is an impossible model to hold Apple up to for competition. Dell's supply chain management is probably the most sophisticated of any large scale manufacturing company. They have minimal amount of supply on hand at any time, and require many suppliers/partners to locate near them. With its various channels Apple could never match such performance (much as I'd like to see it happen).

TM

UnixMac
Nov 8, 2002, 04:16 PM
I am perfectly happy to pay Apple a premium for their products, I think with as small as their maket share is, that has to be expected. However, I am willing to pay that premium for a top product. For example:

If I have to pay $4000 for a lap top vs $3000 and get all of the lastest and greatest hardware (which this PB has a lot of, but by no means all - note the 4200RPM Drive, and lack of a faster bus etc..), I am willing to do this.

I don't care about $1000 wintel crap, I have no intention to buy it, but if I'm gonna pay a lot, I want a lot. Apple tends to deliver this, and this is why they'll be around a long time.

Mr. Anderson
Nov 8, 2002, 05:47 PM
I'm wondering if the rumor of no new tipb until MWSF03 is part of an Apple Anti-rumor division, to aid in keeping things as confusing as possible until they actually get something out the door.

Its not all that paranoid, is it?

D :D

UnixMac
Nov 8, 2002, 07:30 PM
Im sure apple has opratives among us.... you can bank on it.


I'll bet even Steve posts here and there...