Just "unswitched" my wife's grandfather

[DavidLeblond]

Its a sad sad day. My wife's grandfather got a Dell after using Macs most of his "computer" life. Its not that he stopped liking Macs, its just he saw he could get a complete Dell system for $300. And I was to set it up for him.

He had used an eMac (before that he had a first generation iMac.) I took that off his desk and put the 17" CRT monitor in its place (although he was pissed to find out that Dell's 17" monitor only has a 15" screen.) He said "Wow! So thats a Dell!" I told him no, that was just the monitor and lugged the rest of the monstrosity out of the box. He didn't seem too happy with that.

So I got everything plugged in (with him saying more than once "wow... thats a lot of wires") and started his computer up. So he started to get excited again and wanted to see the internet. I told him it wasn't ready yet, I had some more work to do. So I started up the computer, jumped through its loops and restarted it. Answered "I agree" to no less than about 500 EULAs. Then both Dell's software and Norton's Internet Security suite got pissed at me because neither could connect to the internet (he uses Earthlink Dialup that wasn't yet installed.) Finally I got rid of them (although Norton kept complaining off in the corner.) Finally I got Earthlink installed and Norton immediately started downloading virus definitions which took about an HOUR.

So then I had to install his printer... this has always been my pet peeve about Windows. I dislike popup windows, as everyone does. But I consider those insidious informational balloons in the corner to be just as bad as popups. Why is it whenever you plug a friggin' printer into a Windows computer it has to pop up and tell you that its installing like 20 drivers?? Its only one printer!!!! And all the while Norton kept popping up to tell me that its "allowing" something to install... I don't care! Why is "annoy the hell out of the user" the default setting on these things????

So I finally finished with his computer and showed him how to get onto the internet. He asked if his computer would get any faster, I told him it wasn't. His old eMac (I do believe it was probably a G3, I didn't check) smoked the hell out of this brand new Dell. Something tells me he'll be switching back real soon.


Sorry guys, I had to rant somewhere. Ignore me, I'm bitter. I gotta say though, I love the hell out of my iBook right now.

[mad jew]

It's a sad day. :(


As my family's resident computer technician (yeah, me, go figure :confused: ) I know exactly what you're talking about. There's nothing worse than trying to get Windows to work for someone who just wont understand why it doesn't.

[iSaint]

Its a sad sad day. My wife's grandfather got a Dell after using Macs most of his "computer" life. Its not that he stopped liking Macs, its just he saw he could get a complete Dell system for $300. And I was to set it up for him.


I wonder if the specs on the $300 computer are up to snuff? There has to be some catch to be only $300. Plus, you HAD to set it up for him? I thought once we switched we didn't help windows users? What fun!

[Applespider]

As my family's resident computer technician (yeah, me, go figure :confused: ) I know exactly what you're talking about. There's nothing worse than trying to get Windows to work for someone who just wont understand why it doesn't.

Having spent a day last week trying to configure my aunt's new wireless router for her POS Win 98 computer (and my niece's iBook which connected like a dream), I know exactly where you are coming from - Zone Alarm here, Norton there, Windows everywhere else popping up stupid messages. She is considering a new iMac... I just wish she'd consider faster

Then again, it took us an hour for her to remember her username/password for her ISP and then the next week, i got a call because her dial-up wasn't connecting since she'd forgotten that I'd told her if it appeared, she should hit cancel.

[ham_man]

Reminds me of the commercial with the little kid setting up a G3 iMac and this middle age dude setting up an HP, and connecting it too the Internet. Took the kid like 8 minutes and the old dude like 30 minutes. Just goes to show...

[jamesW135]

Thats very sad how anyone could compare a Dell to a mac. :confused:

[law guy]

I can relate. When my mother retired I wanted to get her a new computer to replace her 2 yr old compaq that was just terrible (spyware had made limp and the counter-SW programs at the time were not that great at fixing the problem). She was lured in by the cheap Dell deals, but the $500 PC ended up costing $1200.00 b/c it was so stripped down it needed some upgrades just to be a low-end system. I didn't push Apple on her too much - she'd used macs as a teacher, but had bought into the Dell being a bargain (didn't want to have me spend more than I needed to, perhaps) and wouldn't it be better to use what everyone else was using. I upgraded the RAM and put XP Pro on it instead of the stock "home", purchased the ever-pricey Office suite for her and it ran just fine. But the upkeep is really something and it's more than she really can keep up with. The solutions are sometimes as bad as the problems - both from a slowing the system down perspective as well as a "what do all of these do", "it says my update subscription has expired, I need to pay Norton more money?" etc., perspective.

Thankfully, my father - also across the country from me - recently upgraded his Mac 601 clone to an iMac 20". He was worried that it might be complicated to set up and so waited for a friend from the Mac users group to come over and help. Report: as easy as setting up a new toaster: out of the box, plugged it in, turned it on. Reminded me of those ads for the original iMacs.

AARP should do its members a favor and endorse the use of Macs.

[mad jew]

Actually, one of the most depressing things I've ever heard about is when I was interstate once, my grandfather wanted to connect to broadband...

My Dad, an avid Mac user since the very early days decided to take my place as the IT technician thinking it really isn't that hard. When he tried to connect his eMac to broadband he simply plugged the ethernet cable in and put in his username and password. That's it! He's never even had to re enter a password or anything since.

So off Dad goes, round to the GP's, grabs the ethernet cable, plugs it in, types in the password in the first thing that pops up...


...


...nothing...


Hmm... Tries again...


...nothing...


Okay. Dad runs back to my iBook which I'd left at home (thankfully) and brings it round to the GP's plugs it in, surfs to the ISP's page to see if the net has been down, all within a minute. Nope, the connection's been fine... Right, so what the hell is wrong? I get a call as I'm baking on a beach in Bondi. There is no way I'm going to attempt to walk them through it over the phone. I tell them I'll be back within the week and they should just hold out 'til then or call a proper technician. They wont have a bar of it, why get a professional when your grandkid can make a lame attempt!

So I return, go pretty much straight round to the GP's and start the tedious process which is connecting Windows 98 to broadband. With iBook in hand I download some drivers, burn them to CD, install them on PC...

Seven hours later (no kidding :( ) Pa's up and running on the net. Still a million problems like McAffee not updating (required a reinstall) and some regular drop-outs, but the old man is finally up to speed (excuse the pun, please :) ).

Sure, PCs may be cheaper on initial purchase than Macs but is it really worth it considering the seven hour difference between getting the two online! I mean, if time equals money, then I think 93% of the world (or whatever figure Windows users are at) are pretty well ripped off. :(

[keysersoze]

My Mom and girlfriend both have PC's that I religiously update with Norton and Software updates when I am around those computers. I think people just assume they are fine if they "just go on the internet" and browse. I have told them if they had Macs they wouldn't have to worry about viruses/spyware and **** like that, but then they reminded me that I'm the one that gets to deal with their computers! So I have to deal with the pain of keeping their PC's running, all because they wanted to save a couple bucks. :rolleyes:


Note: 1000 posts Babyy--- Yaaa!!!

[homerjward]

sorry, another internet connect rant:
once i got my new tower built, i turned it on, installed all the software, etc. then decided i wanted to connect to the interent. being across the house from my router i use a wifi card. in order to install it it goes install drivers>>turn off, install pci card>>turn on and let windows apply the drivers or something like that. it worked fine until i was having some problems with the windows firewall and i installed the nvidia one. it suddenly decided i didn't have a card installed, so i had to uninstall drivers, reboot and do the install again :mad: turns out the card has such crappy reception i have to turn on internet sharing on my emac and use a e-net cable to get online on the pc through the mac :rolleyes: oh, and don't get me started on windows zero-config wireless dealie. even if my wifi card monitor says im connected to the network, the internet doesnt work until the zero-config decides i am. :mad::o:rolleyes:
edit: congrats, keysersoze

[Doctor Q]

Sorry, DavidLeblond. But some people just have to learn the hard way, even grandfathers-in-law.

[yellow]

I'm completely with you on the annoyance of informational balloons in Windows XP. Drives me nuts. Yes, THANK YOU, I know I'm connected via ethernet.. I DID just plug in the damn cable. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

[ravenvii]

Ugh, I had to deal with my grandpa's crappy PC (using AOL, too! :eek: ) today. And then Tuesday I'll have to take care of an aunt's PC, which (of course) got hosed with "a virus" (that's all she told me). And what fun! She's on dial-up too! :mad:

And when I told them all the things they have to do to keep their machine from getting hosed in a week, they say "why should I do all that? I just want to browse the internet and use Outlook email! Do you do all those things?" and I go "heh, nah. I use a Mac."

It's sad, people STILL think Macs can't do the stuff they want to do, when the only things they do is browse the net, IM and use email, all of which Macs do perfectly well. :mad:

Ok you got me all worked up. I'd love to smack those people for being so stupid. If they're not family, I would too.

[DavidLeblond]

I wonder if the specs on the $300 computer are up to snuff? There has to be some catch to be only $300. Plus, you HAD to set it up for him? I thought once we switched we didn't help windows users? What fun!

No, the specs on the $300 are pretty much a case of "you get what you pay for." Hell, my mother in law just got a Dell too (I know, two in one day... utter hell) but she opted for a more expensive model. The $300 one doesn't even come with an optical mouse! I didn't know they even PUT balls in mice anymore! It wasn't even USB! Amazing, I tell you. That must have been a "top of the line" Dell from 1996 that they just hadn't gotten around to selling yet.

[MattG]

Wow...well it's not often you hear about someone going the 'other way'. It's sad, especially when it happens because of the price.

[iDM]

I still remembered when i switched from the PC I had built. I got the Pb delivered like 30 minutes before i had an exam, I thought ok I'll just turn it on and just see what happens in the first 5 minutes and then I'll go to class. Power it on OSX boots up I click on this thing called safari and the apple page comes up. We are talking what 5 minutes or less? I was speechless when it loaded, picked up my wireless router connected to it and allowed me to use the internet no questions asked.

My other favorite Mac store is when all the other guys in my apartment(There is 7 of us) at one point lost their internet connection(the router went down, so we reset it) my roommates could not get there computers working for a week so everyone had to use my PowerBook. 1 working computer out of 7, I'm a believer.

[florencevassy]

Good story, thanks.

Although I am still a Newbie (switched last year) I can't see myself ever going back. I know that you can get a PC pretty cheap these days, but still...
I just love the ease of use and elegance of Apple computers. I would rather have an ancient Mac than a new PC, that's for sure.

[wwooden]

Sounds like we all have someone in the family who uses a PC computer. I bet we could go on and on with similar stories. But I still enjoy reading others and being able to relate to them.

[yg17]

I had the joy of not only setting up a Gateway PC for my grandpa, but also showing the 80 year old man who could barley work a TV how to use it. Took several minutes until he grasped the concept of clicking a mouse. Set up the POS computer and he gets a year of free internet through Gateway's dial up ISP back when they had ISP services (This is 1999, 2000ish).

A year later, he calls me up and says "I heard AOL is good, I want it" Ugh, AOL and good should never be mentioned in the same sentence. But this isn't a man you argue with it. When you've owned your own business since your 30s, you develop arguing and haggling skills and your 15 year old grandson is no match. "OK Grandpa, I'll be over next week to install it." I'm not even going to go into detail about how that went. Installing AOL on a Windows 98 PC and showing someone who is clueless about computers how to use it. You know how that went.

So over time, he updated virus defs, but absolutley no spyware protection ever got installed. So after a couple years, it gets pretty bad. I dreaded going over there to fix it because it would literally take 10 minutes to boot into a semi-useable state. Another 5 minutes for AOL to launch and connect. You get the idea.

So about 2 years ago, he wanted broadband. It all came down to cable or DSL. I was crossing my fingers for cable because that meant a technican from Charter had to come out and install it (install cable jacks and all that jazz) because I really did not want to deal with that computer. DSL had self-install kits, no techs :( So he called up SBC (DSL ISP) and asked them which was better, cable or DSL. Well, guess what they said. So now a DSL self install kit is in transit to his house for yours truly to install. Sad thing is, cable is really better. 3 Mbit service while DSL is the same price and only 1.5, but you don't argue with him. Installing the hardware went without a hitch. Plug in the modem and filters, pop in the ethernet card, connect the neccesary cables, ect. The software install wasn't fun. Remember when I said it took 10 minutes to reboot? That was when Windows wasn't complaining about a network card and the 3985435 drivers required to make it work. Plus, SBC's software requires countless reboots. So after being there all day, DSL is finally working, but the computer is too damn slow to even process all the incoming data from the web, so it isn't a huge improvement over dial up.

Less than a year ago, I get a call from him that he wants a new computer. Normally, I'd recommend a Mac, especially after all the previous crap with his computer. But, I was not about to sit there and teach him how to use a completley new operating system when he had to call me for step-by-step directions to type a letter in Word. So, to stop me from going insane, I kept my mouth quiet about Macs. In retrospect, I should have told him about Macs. This was before the days of the cheap Mac Mini, but he's loaded and could have gotten a maxed out G5 with dual 30 inchers without putting a dent in his checkbook. Anyways, he goes to Circuit City, and the salespeople there tell them what he wants to hear and goes home with some HP piece of junk (Although the 17" LCD is nice). Gets a multifunction printer with the little LCD screen for digital photos and flash card reader when he will never own a digital camera. Also, he gets extended warranties on everything which was probably a waste. I get to set it up, joy. I happily disconnect that Gateway pile of trash and get the new HP hooked up. One thing that gets me, in the year 2004, HP still includes a ball mice with their computer, when optical mice can be had for under 10 bucks. Whatever. Boot it up and let XP tell me about how I'm going to have the best, problem free and secure computing experience of my life as it proceeds to reboot the computer more times than my PowerMac has been rebooted since I bought it. Fortunatley, I can skip the step of SBC's software, I just use XP's built in PPPoE client to do the work. And out of the box, the computer was decentley fast. Nothing amazing, but compared to that Gateway, fast. Its all setup, and I leave and have to go to his house occasionally to fix a thing or show him another, and everytime I use that computer, its the same slow piece of junk his Gateway was, just an updated operating system doing the sucking. Having to troubleshoot that computer makes me happy to go home and use my shiny PowerMac.

And I still don't know why he ever bought a computer. They have a ton of various investments and accounts and whatnot. Quicken would be great for them, but they still do paperwork by hand the old fashioned way. Every letter I've ever seen him mail was hand written, not typed. I don't believe he has ever bought anything online. He still calls us for every little thing when he has our e-mail addresses. He doesn't take digital photos or use a DV camera. He doesn't listen to music. I think he has it just to say he has a computer or for that rare occasion when he gets a website address and wants to see it.

But he isn't an isolated incident, its Windows who is at fault. At college, I'm surrounded by PC users who know their stuff; if they're messing around with drivers, they don't delete what shouldn't be deleted; they have updated spyware and virus defs; they know what they're doing when working inside the computer. No problems they have can be blamed on them. The guy in the dorm next to me built his own PC (I can build one too and have, but I'd rather buy Macs :D) and Windows refused to shut down properly. Another one 2 doors down, his self-built Windows PC all of the sudden quit recognizing his CD burner. Only solution for him was to reformat. Guy across the hall from me, his HP laptop would just start getting extremley slow, and after virus and spyware scans showed nothing. Temporary fix was to reboot, and do the same every couple hours. And I'm in my little corner of the room happily doing things on my Mac and the only problem I had was the wide range of music on the campus p2p network was keeping me from studying.

[Mechcozmo]

So I finally finished with his computer and showed him how to get onto the internet. He asked if his computer would get any faster, I told him it wasn't. His old eMac (I do believe it was probably a G3, I didn't check) smoked the hell out of this brand new Dell. Something tells me he'll be switching back real soon.

eMacs aren't G3, only G4.

But still painful. We have a PowerTower Pro 225 running as guest e-mail and internet computer. For 8.5 years it has run... no problems ever. Even now it doesn't have viruses and spyware. People are amazing when I tell them how old it is. Only issue is that it is a bit slow... but next time I get a chance I'll install iCab and see how it goes.

[Cooknn]

He'll be back. Windows will make him miserable :cool: Owning a Mac is like staying at Hotel California. You can check out, but you can never leave ;)

[solvs]

I can't tell you how many times I've told a person I keep helping fix their PC to buy a Mac. Only for them to buy another PC and we start the same cycle again. Funny, the people who do listen to me and buy a Mac never call me about computer issues. We should just stop helping these people. Tell them to buy a Mac or no more playing help desk.

Too bad we're too nice for that, or there'd be more Mac users and we'd have a lot more free time. ;)

[Abstract]

I have never had a problem connecting a PC to the internet. They also....."just work."

[jiv3turkey748]

i remember one time my uncle was showing my granpa how to connect his digital camera to his pc they had to go to start and my computer and it shoeed up as a drive on my computer and u had to open the drive and copy the pictures to a folder and even after doing that there was no way to really edit or organize the pics(i guess for some reason he didnt have the soft ware that came with the camera) the whole time i was like you no on my ibook all i have to do is plug the camera in and press import

[katie ta achoo]

Ow...

Unswitching.

Thankfully, I only have to deal with windows when I'm installing anti-virus software, updating it, running spyware checks, running adware checks, running anti-virus checks, defragging, etc.

My mom has (thankfully) been scared into downloading NOTHING. The news on TV and myself have successfully telling her that. (muahhaha)


Bleh, the other day, my dad had me trying to install a wireless card into his laptop. No big deal, it's just pcmcia, right?
So, I put it in, it gets recognized and CRASHES, just having the card in it.

This goes on for about 45 minutes before I stand up, walk TO the AirPort Express base station, and get it to connect while I'm 4 inches away from it (the windows status says "average" reception at this point) I set down the laptop, it immediately crashes, and I just kind of tell my dad "..All set up! I think it may have frozen itself but.. it's your problem now!" and I went back to my PowerBook, woke it up, and instantly got on the AirPort system.

I swear, when I'm all rich and stuff, I'm gonna just outfit my whole family with iBooks and stuff.

At that time, I'll also be head of The FOMC of VP of Finance at Apple (I haven't quite decided yet..) and I'll make EVERYONE switch to apple at the Fed. (If I'm finance at Apple, I'll ring the opening bell for the NYSE and demand the floor be changed to a Unix base.)

Ah, a whole family of iBook'ers. It makes me smile, just thinking about how little tech-support I'll have to do. :D :D :rolleyes: (they'll find a way. HAHA)

[huck500]

Seriously, Microsoft has done an incredible job of convincing people they can't live without Windows...

My parents know nothing about computers, and asked me what they should get a few years ago. I said, "Mac, no question, and here's why..." but they decided to go with a cheap PC because a friend of theirs was an "expert" and could hook them up with some software, help them with problems, etc.

They went to some small company who built them a computer and signed up with COMPUSERVE of all ISPs... but everything was going fine, besides having to explain to my mom how to see the pictures people were sending her every week or so.

Then, inevitably, the computer slowed to a crawl, and the "expert" basically said, "I don't know what's wrong, I can't help you..." I went over and checked it out - absolutely riddled with spyware, and a virus to boot. The virus software they had was never updated, and they had COMPUSERVE set to download attachments automatically! (Remember that the "expert" was taking care of this computer, and I was willfully ignoring it...)

Anyway, they ended up taking the computer back to the shop that had built it and they got everything back to normal... which should last a couple of weeks. The good news is, I almost have my mom talked into an iBook... now to talk her out of Compuserve...

Pet peeve: computer "experts" that are really good at checking their e-mail and using the database they have at work, but nothing else...

And to the guy who said Windows "just works," great for you, but totally different from my experiences... and every time I pull out my powerbook at a PC user's house and it just connects, they freak out.

[Applespider]

I have never had a problem connecting a PC to the internet. They also....."just work."

I never had a problem connecting my PC to the internet but that's because I knew what was on it, understood my security and all was fine.
And it was a simple dial-up connection...

Wifi in general can be hell (even on a Mac; having spent an hour in the past 2 days trying to sort out the mess that occurred when the Airport/4.2 upgrade hosed mine) but I swear it's worse on a PC. I worked on my aunt's for 4 hours and still couldn't persuade it to work with any form of WEP/WPA security on it. In the end, I stopped it broadcasting its SSID and put a MAC access control list on it and gave up on the security... :eek:

[mad jew]

I have never had a problem connecting a PC to the internet. They also....."just work."


Well apparently not Windows 98. :confused:

[ReanimationLP]

I dont have any problems getting the internet working with my XP machine. I have the 3Com 905C Network cards, and the net is always on jammed into one. When I reinstall Windows and reboot it works right then and there.

[the future]

You're all way too nice. If people don't follow your advice and get a PC instead of a Mac, you should just flat out refuse to help them with it. Yes, even family. Especially family. You're doing them a favour in the long run as they will much sooner be fed up with Windows and finally switch and may finally start to enjoy their computer for a change. Also price isn't an issue anymore since the Mac mini. It's more of a computer than those web-surfing, e-mail checking folks will ever need. Plus it's incredibly small, cute, and silent. And yes, it runs f***in' Word if you really, really have to. :rolleyes:

[ewinemiller]

Well apparently not Windows 98. :confused:

Yeah, but complaining about Windows 98 is about like complaining that in OS 8.x I couldn't connect to dialup and the home TCP/IP network at the same time because it only supported one IP address at a time (that BTW, worked just fine on any Win 9x version). Try to remember where Apple was when Windows 98 came out.

The funny thing is, while I'd never dream of installing OS 8.x for someone's machine on the Mac side these days, Windows 98 while a little flakey and limited on memory support, will still run most of today's Windows applications just fine and is supported by most hardware vendors. Slap a virus scanner on there (free, see below), an alternative browser and mail client, drop it behind a hardware NAT firewall and I wouldn't have any problems using it for someone who wanted to browse the web, word processing, etc. It's a fine OS for that franken-computer you build for Uncle Bob. That's why you can still complain about it, it's still in use.

For those looking for an alternative to the Norton tax, check out http://free.grisoft.com. It's the free for home use version of AVG virus.

[the future]

The funny thing is, while I'd never dream of installing OS 8.x for someone's machine on the Mac side these days, Windows 98 while a little flakey and limited on memory support, will still run most of today's Windows applications just fine and is supported by most hardware vendors.

Well, duh. We made the "great leap forward" with OS X and consequently left OS 8 (and 9, AFAIK) far behind. Windows just drags on with cosmetic changes and will have to leave behind all that bloated code sometime... one would have thought Longhorn would be their chance to do this, but lately it doesn't look like it anymore, with all the potentially good bits being delayed/cut.

[dsharits]

I thought once we switched we didn't help windows users? What fun!
If that's part of the contract, my family hasn't read it yet. :rolleyes:

[mad jew]

Yeah, but complaining about Windows 98 is about like complaining that in OS 8.x I couldn't connect to dialup and the home TCP/IP network at the same time because it only supported one IP address at a time (that BTW, worked just fine on any Win 9x version). Try to remember where Apple was when Windows 98 came out.


True, but when did age ever warrant immunity from bitching? ;)

[ldburroughs]

$300. I guess he got what he paid for. I can't imagine what it came with for that price. And for a g3 to "smoke" it, it must be pretty pitiful. It doesn't take much to "smoke" a g3 in the PC world these days. For a few extra hundred he could have a much nicer machine. I can't imagine what $300 would get him in the Mac world. With Mac, you get what you pay for as well. I'm not sure how he'll switch back for a price like that. He can't even get a Mac Mini. That would have probably suited his needs, assuming he had a spare monitor, keyboard, and mouse lying around.

[5300cs]

... AOL and good should never be mentioned in the same sentence. ...

How about "Goodbye AOL!" or "Good riddance to AOL!" :D

I used to use them, too. Thankfully I've come to my senses and switch ISPs as well as OSes :rolleyes:

There was a user on this board who had the great quote: "Those that laugh at you for having a Mac are the first ones to call you when they need their PC fixed." (or something like that.)

I didn't like setting up/fixing machines for people because they're so damn ungrateful after it's done :mad: I've spent hours fixing a machine only to have it work and the person say "Hey cool, thanks ..." and then blissfully ignore me while surfing the net. :mad: :mad:

[Diatribe]

I thought once we switched we didn't help windows users? What fun!

Exactly! I cut my help down to a real minimum now that I have a Mac. I'll just say that I don't really remember a whole lot about Windows, I use a Mac now... :D That usually works like a charm. Some people I just tell (like my dad ;) ) either you get a Mac or you look for someone else doing your tech support. That switched him. :D

[yg17]

There was a user on this board who had the great quote: "Those that laugh at you for having a Mac are the first ones to call you when they need their PC fixed." (or something like that.)



Thats a great quote. Going back to what I mentioned regarding college, all my buddies jokingly give me crap for having a Mac. Yet me being the computer science and IT major, I'm the first one they bother when their Windows PC suddenly refuses to work :D

[Roger1]

Yeah, but complaining about Windows 98 is about like complaining that in OS 8.x I couldn't connect to dialup and the home TCP/IP network at the same time because it only supported one IP address at a time (that BTW, worked just fine on any Win 9x version). Try to remember where Apple was when Windows 98 came out.

The funny thing is, while I'd never dream of installing OS 8.x for someone's machine on the Mac side these days, Windows 98 while a little flakey and limited on memory support, will still run most of today's Windows applications just fine and is supported by most hardware vendors. Slap a virus scanner on there (free, see below), an alternative browser and mail client, drop it behind a hardware NAT firewall and I wouldn't have any problems using it for someone who wanted to browse the web, word processing, etc. It's a fine OS for that franken-computer you build for Uncle Bob. That's why you can still complain about it, it's still in use.

For those looking for an alternative to the Norton tax, check out http://free.grisoft.com. It's the free for home use version of AVG virus.

I agree, but use Win 98SE if you have choice. I know from experience, Win98SE boots MUCH quicker than either Win2000, or XP (did an an informal test on a P3 Gateway). Win 98 would boot up in less than a minute. XP took almost two minutes.

[dsharits]

2000 Pro is still the "best" version of Windows, if there is such a thing.

[DavidLeblond]

2000 Pro is still the "best" version of Windows, if there is such a thing.

Agreed. I think 2000 is, in my experience, the "least buggy" version of Windows I've used. 98SE comes a close second, and maybe a finely tuned NT 4. Windows XP and ME, in that order, are probably the two crappiest releases.

Of course I've only used Windows since 3.0, and I've never used NT before 4 so thats all I have to work with. 2.0 may very well be crappier than ME. :)

[stubeeef]

Just reupped my mother from an original bondiblue to a present generation eMac.
when I got her the iMac my brother was complaining, he lives 1.5 hours away, that I wasn't getting her a dell/hp/compaq thang. I quickly said, "Hey no problem, we can get her one of those and you handle the problems, or a Mac and I will." He shutup real fast.

[dsharits]

Just reupped my mother from an original bondiblue to a present generation eMac.
when I got her the iMac my brother was complaining, he lives 1.5 hours away, that I wasn't getting her a dell/hp/compaq thang. I quickly said, "Hey no problem, we can get her one of those and you handle the problems, or a Mac and I will." He shutup real fast.
That, my friend, is officially awesome. :cool:

[Heb1228]

Agreed, I just spent 5 pr 6 hours on the phone with grandmother yesterday setting up her freakin email and transferring 100MB of files to her new PC. It makes me want to buy a PC just so I can switch all over again.

[MongoTheGeek]

Its like the man who was asked why he was banging his head against the wall.

Because it feels so good when I stop.
highlight to read.

[munkle]

... It makes me want to buy a PC just so I can switch all over again.

Perhaps the best quote I've ever read on this forum...

[Heb1228]

Thank you :D

[Mav451]

I agree, but use Win 98SE if you have choice. I know from experience, Win98SE boots MUCH quicker than either Win2000, or XP (did an an informal test on a P3 Gateway). Win 98 would boot up in less than a minute. XP took almost two minutes.

Eh, but would you want to use 98SE over XP? That's like saying you would use OS8 over OSX b/c it "boots faster". Now, it could be that I have always kept a clean startup folder, but I never noticed a difference in bootup (and that's with RAM "inflation").

I had a 800Mhz Athlon + 256MB RAM. That booted in ~20-30seconds.

Now I have my 2.5Ghz Athlon XP + 1GB RAM. The boot up is around 25-40seconds. Honestly, if 10 seconds is such a big deal, I really don't know what to say. Considering how much easier networking, I wouldn't trade XP SP2 for 98 for the world.

You connect to the campus LAN, wired cable at home...it just works. Wireless I don't have much experience with.

And on the people who have Norton installed on their PC--> get rid of that trash. Norton is one of the biggest pieces of bloatware on the planet. If anything, get McAfee or AVG. Honestly, with all the damage I've seen done with Norton, putting people on Fx/Tb with NO virus protection is alot safer.

Fx/Tb with McAfee is better of course though.

[Mav451]

Agreed, I just spent 5 pr 6 hours on the phone with grandmother yesterday setting up her freakin email and transferring 100MB of files to her new PC. It makes me want to buy a PC just so I can switch all over again.

Eh, I wish I could say the same. Its not so much with me about switching (b/c my custom-built hasn't given me problems), as it is about being enlightened.

Yes, enlightened.

[andrebsd]

I agree, but use Win 98SE if you have choice. I know from experience, Win98SE boots MUCH quicker than either Win2000, or XP (did an an informal test on a P3 Gateway). Win 98 would boot up in less than a minute. XP took almost two minutes.

I would just use XP and cut a minute of my ******** time at night on the toilet... Then I wouldn't loose any time by using XP.

Now I can guess why you are worried about the minute, its because 98SE also craped out more often than XP. As for it booting slower, well no duh... OS 9 boots quicker than OSX too... if the system takes less resources; its going to work quicker. QNX would boot quicker than 98, since it fits on a floppy and uses a heck of alot less resources than 98.

[ravenvii]

Oh DEAR GOD!

Why is Windows XP's installer so... ****ING ****?!

On one machine it allows me to reformat and install, then on another for no apparent reason it wouldn't let me do anything but upgrade! It's the same ****ing disc even!

Why why why why why?!

*goes to corner and cries*

[Mav451]

Oh DEAR GOD!

Why is Windows XP's installer so... ****ING ****?!

On one machine it allows me to reformat and install, then on another for no apparent reason it wouldn't let me do anything but upgrade! It's the same ****ing disc even!

Why why why why why?!

*goes to corner and cries*

Wow, I've never ran into that issue, even with my first experience of installing XP. I'm presuming you are installing XP on a disk that has already been formatted?

I've heard complaints about other things with Windows (lack of a SATA driver, in-Windows issues), but the installer I have rarely seen come up as an issue. If you got another box already setup, I'd format it from there. Most of my XP installs are clean--either I've already formatted and partitioned on another box, or I do it straight from boot.

[Mechcozmo]

OEM disk. No bugging about CD keys nor activation.

Still hate the damned thing.

[AmigoMac]

It's sad, right now, I'm setting up a PC with Win ME, just because the owner (a woman) has had it since 2001 and she knows only that, she's used to it and no more, what the **** , but work is work, boring but work. :eek: :mad: , it's crazy, she prefers AOL software instead of Firefox or Thunderbird, just because she is used to it, grrrr! :mad:

Somehow I can understand her but :mad: to her!

gotta love my mac!

[ewinemiller]

I've heard complaints about other things with Windows (lack of a SATA driver, in-Windows issues), but the installer I have rarely seen come up as an issue. If you got another box already setup, I'd format it from there. Most of my XP installs are clean--either I've already formatted and partitioned on another box, or I do it straight from boot.

Why do you need an SATA driver? I just built a box (w/ SATA) using an original XP Pro CD (pre service pack 1) and it worked fine. Am I missing something?

[Roger1]

Eh, but would you want to use 98SE over XP? That's like saying you would use OS8 over OSX b/c it "boots faster". Now, it could be that I have always kept a clean startup folder, but I never noticed a difference in bootup (and that's with RAM "inflation").



I am using XP. I was advising people who wanted to use Win98, to use Win98Se if they had the choice. I prefer XP myself because it seems to be more secure.

[DavidLeblond]

Update on the situation:

My mother-in-law's Dell came with an LCD monitor which he liked better than his big honkin' CRT so he traded his CRT in for an LCD. He plugged it up and is now complaining that he has a "blue screen" so my wife is going over there to fix it.

He admitted to regretting his decision to switch to PCs. :)

[DavidLeblond]

Oh DEAR GOD!

Why is Windows XP's installer so... ****ING ****?!

On one machine it allows me to reformat and install, then on another for no apparent reason it wouldn't let me do anything but upgrade! It's the same ****ing disc even!

Why why why why why?!

*goes to corner and cries*

Actually the I've had more luck with XPs installer than with Tiger's installer. I had to run that thing at least 5 times before Tiger finally installed correctly.

[drison]

I recently had the displeasure of setting up one of these dell deals for a friend of my wifes. I figured it would take under 30 minutes and we could do it over a pizza.

So, 3 hours later after the damned thing was finished installing updates, virus definitions, etc. it was finally finished. The worst part is that it only came with 256meg of ram and runs like a dog. I just couldn't believe dell can get away with installing all of that garbage.

I'd considered wiping it and installing a fresh windows install and getting her some addtl ram but I'm not so sure she would really understand why so I just wash my hands of it. :(

I'm not completely adverse to Windows necessarily but when you have to run several apps just to prevent security breaches it makes you feel like there has to be a better way.

Oh, I guess there is. :rolleyes:

-Dave

[HiRez]

I dislike popup windows, as everyone does. But I consider those insidious informational balloons in the corner to be just as bad as popups.I had a somewhat similar experience to yours the other day helping a friend set up her new Dell laptop. Get this, there was a popup window that kept appearing to nag me about...guess what...a popup blocker! Hilarious in hindsight, but oh, the sick irony... :rolleyes:

[Roger1]

We have a one year old Dell at work here, Celeron 2.6 GHz, and 128 MB RAM, running WinXP Pro. :D It's so slow, you can see the screen redraw when you close the programs, etc. Gotta love it.

[DavidLeblond]

UPDATE:

My grandfather-in-law wants us to package up the Dell and send it back, for he's ordered a Mac Mini.

He had it for a week! Definately good news!

[MattG]

I swear, when I'm all rich and stuff, I'm gonna just outfit my whole family with iBooks and stuff.

You and me both..........god I'm tired of it. I probably would have already convinced my parents to buy a Mac (or I would have bought one for them) if it weren't for the fact that their both taking Masters classes and need their PCs for certain programs that are Windows-only. Oh well.

[katie ta achoo]

UPDATE:

My grandfather-in-law wants us to package up the Dell and send it back, for he's ordered a Mac Mini.

He had it for a week! Definately good news!


Rock!!
I was sort of expecting this in the end, haha.

Have fun setting up the mini for him.
It'll be a nice two minutes.. You can stay for sandwiches and it'll be under a half hour trip.
:p

[MattG]

Bad assed...that's good news.

I just got done yelling (ok not yelling but you know what I mean) at a friend of mine for buying a Toshiba instead of the Mac I've been telling her to buy.

Her: "I bought the Toshiba [whatever model it is] because it looks most like a Mac"
Me: "It's not how the Mac looks that makes it a better machine"
Her: "Yeah I know but I just couldn't afford a Mac"
Me: "A low-end iBook is less than the PC you bought, especially when you factor in all the software and support you're going to have to buy when it takes a s***, just like all your other PCs do all the time"

**SCREAMS**