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MacRumors
Jun 11, 2012, 06:30 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11/david-pogue-new-imacs-and-mac-pros-coming-probably-in-2013/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/NewImage11.pngAccording to New York Times technology columnist David Pogue, Apple still believes in desktop Macs, including both the iMac and the Mac Pro.

The Mac Pro in particular has raised the ire of some Apple fans because it has been several years (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Pro) since the last update, and the update today (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11/apple-offers-minor-processor-bump-to-mac-pro-line/) was extremely minor.

Pogue writes (http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/an-explanation-of-the-news-from-apple/):
Many Apple observers also wonder if Apple thinks that desktop computers are dead, since not a word was said about the iMac and Mac Pro. An executive did assure me, however, that new models and new designs are under way, probably for release in 2013.Updated Xeon E5 chips were released (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/03/01/mac-pro-update-now-possible-with-new-xeon-e5-chips-next-week/) in March, but the Mac Pro update released today strangely didn't include them.

The company late last year was reportedly "questioning (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/31/apple-questioning-the-future-of-its-mac-pro-line/)" the future of the Mac Pro line, examining whether it should continue offering the professional-level workstation as sales have declined amid a continued shift toward notebook machines and specs that had gone stale while waiting for Intel to release updated processors. With Pogue's post today, however, the future of the Mac Pro seems slightly more assured.

Thanks Susan!

Update: A MacRumors reader writes in to share an email he received from Apple CEO Tim Cook after he asked about the future of the Mac Pro:
Our pro customers are really important to us...don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year.

Article Link: David Pogue: New iMacs and Mac Pros Coming 'Probably in 2013' [Update] (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11/david-pogue-new-imacs-and-mac-pros-coming-probably-in-2013/)



Baklava
Jun 11, 2012, 06:31 PM
Poor, poor Mac Pro users...

Inakto
Jun 11, 2012, 06:33 PM
an update is an update. There is Hope!!

stangaroo
Jun 11, 2012, 06:33 PM
Did I read the "lack of thunderbolt" correctly in the specs!?

...and only USB 2?

troop231
Jun 11, 2012, 06:33 PM
I suppose the new Retina MBP will hold me over until then :)

DeeEss
Jun 11, 2012, 06:34 PM
"trust me, I'm a sales man"

Tinyluph
Jun 11, 2012, 06:34 PM
I'm pretty sure that quote is only referring to the Pros being updated next year.

Dear god I would hope the iMacs aren't scheduled for 2013.

Durendal
Jun 11, 2012, 06:34 PM
What a massive load of hairy horsecrap. What possible reason would Apple have to wait that bloody long? The parts are available! It's possible that the Mac Pro is waiting on the availability of GTX 670/680 parts in sufficient quantities, but the iMac? There's no reason for it to wait that long. I give it a couple of months, tops.

Also, what the hell was "new" about the Mac Pro today?

gugy
Jun 11, 2012, 06:34 PM
The upgrade was minimal. I am keeping my current machine for sure.
Too bad, at least it was an update, so there is hope they won't kill it for good. At least for awhile. :rolleyes:

esquared
Jun 11, 2012, 06:35 PM
2013?! Would that be Dec.31st? Got to be kidding me. MacPro's may die from underexposure regardless of what Apple does.

subcritical71
Jun 11, 2012, 06:35 PM
I haven't kept up with the Mac Pros since buying mine in 2008, but the Apple site has a NEW tag next to the Mac Pros today!

nickpro
Jun 11, 2012, 06:35 PM
heres to retina imacs @ WWDC 2012

LethalWolfe
Jun 11, 2012, 06:36 PM
Another 12-18mo for the Mac Pro herd to thin out even more so Apple can eventually say, 'Well, there's just not enough demand so it's not fiscally responsible to keep manufacturing and offering Mac Pros."

RamGuy
Jun 11, 2012, 06:36 PM
I'll bet we'll see refreshed Mac Mini's and iMac with IvyBridge with the release of Mountain Lion in July.. Just a silent update and specc bump, nothing special but I wouldn't believe neither the Mac Mini nor the iMac will see IvyBridge at all.

Konrad
Jun 11, 2012, 06:36 PM
This may be too late for all parties.

jwsmiths
Jun 11, 2012, 06:37 PM
heres to retina imacs @ WWDC 2012

I'll bet you $100,000 it doesn't happen... :)

Spanky Deluxe
Jun 11, 2012, 06:38 PM
If it is true that Apple is holding off until a new hardware design for the Mac Pro is ready, then it is understandable that they wouldn't want to waste R&D on a new logic board on the latest crop of Intel processors. However, unfortunately Intel doesn't usually drop the prices on previous generation processors much if at all so Apple didn't have many options if they wanted to introduce an update that used the same type of processors but didn't decrease their profit margins.

SlickShoes
Jun 11, 2012, 06:38 PM
Is he trolling? Mac Pros are well overdue and now iMac's are really lagging behind too.

I need a couple of iMac's for work but I really grudge paying top dollar for year old hardware.

Rocketman
Jun 11, 2012, 06:38 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=15006075&postcount=450

JayJayAbels
Jun 11, 2012, 06:39 PM
Hey guys I'm still fairly new here.

Can I curse on this forum? (Serious question).

:(

JaguarGod
Jun 11, 2012, 06:40 PM
Well, I was hoping for more today on the Mac Pro line. But, I was considering a 3.33 six-core before the updates and at least that has dropped in price. Before the updates the 3.33 six-core BTO option was another $1200 and now it is $500. That's $700 less and I am definitely considering it.

I have many other Macs and even an earlier Mac Pro. But I think it may be time for another purchase. Again though, I was hoping for a bit more.

IronManJFF
Jun 11, 2012, 06:40 PM
If you go to the new MacPro on Apple Store and hit compare .. it compares the new MacPro to the iMac 27" but it if you look at that iMac specs .. it does not exists ... yet ....

soundguyami
Jun 11, 2012, 06:40 PM
Check the store. Mac Pro updated today. Silent release.

lilo777
Jun 11, 2012, 06:40 PM
Is Apple the only PC vendor that does not have IvyBridge desktops? Macs have always been behind their PC counterparts spec-wise but this is getting ridiculous.

Big-TDI-Guy
Jun 11, 2012, 06:41 PM
You know what would instill faith? APPLE telling pro users that they will continue to support them. Its not like that information would benefit the competitors to any significant degree, and I'm positive it would put the minds of those who DEPEND on this tool for a living, at ease.

Getting this info exclusively from third parties borders on insulting.

iBug2
Jun 11, 2012, 06:41 PM
What a massive load of hairy horsecrap. What possible reason would Apple have to wait that bloody long? The parts are available! It's possible that the Mac Pro is waiting on the availability of GTX 670/680 parts in sufficient quantities, but the iMac? There's no reason for it to wait that long. I give it a couple of months, tops.

Also, what the hell was "new" about the Mac Pro today?

Or they are waiting for Ivy Bridge Xeons due in 2013 to include native USB 3.0.

scottsjack
Jun 11, 2012, 06:42 PM
"With Pogue's post today, however, the future of the Mac Pro seems slightly more assured."

Assured only for the hold-out fanboys who need to continue "to believe". I mean, come on, a two-year-old video card? It takes that much work to support a current card in order to get Apple's biggest, toughest, pro computer through another year?

Where are the high-end six-core and dual six-core options? The only that that the Mac Pro got was cheaper to buy. That's exactly what should happen to outdated technology being sold to clear inventory.

It's so clear that light-weight computers that high-school kids can talk to are where Apple's head is at right now.

ArcaneDevice
Jun 11, 2012, 06:42 PM
No excuse for still shipping that video card in this "update.". None.

Atlantico
Jun 11, 2012, 06:42 PM
What a massive load of hairy horsecrap. What possible reason would Apple have to wait that bloody long? The parts are available! It's possible that the Mac Pro is waiting on the availability of GTX 670/680 parts in sufficient quantities, but the iMac? There's no reason for it to wait that long. I give it a couple of months, tops.

Also, what the hell was "new" about the Mac Pro today?

Completely agreed.

Has Apple gone collectively insane? Do they think people would have stopped buying yesterday's or even today's Mac Pro had they just announced publicly that they are working on a new one - instead of «leaking» it to David goddam Pogue??!

Nobody was buying Mac Pros yesterday, and hardly anybody will be buying one today. At least not people who need a Mac Pro, they already got something very similar 2 years ago! For more or less the same price too! (in fact it was cheaper before, if one is in Europe)

The «upgrade» today was completely disrespectful, insulting. So is not giving a roadmap for the Mac Pro.

Even more so is this dumbass leak to Pogue.

Mac Pros aren't bought on a whim and the average unit price is ~5000USD with the required internals (RAM+HD+etc) and on a somewhat steady upgrade cycle, one would buy the Mac Pro when one needs a Mac Pro.

One does not buy a 2+ year old Mac Pro at 2+ year old prices, with no roadmap, no guarantees, just a word from an unnamed Apple exec. to David dingaling Pogue.

Jeez. :eek:

A 2013 update to the Mac Pro, even if it is serious and impressive (which is somewhat optimistic) is too little too late. At the time the last real update to the Mac Pro series would have been 3+ years, almost 4 years.

Who wants to shell out 5000 bucks on a machine series that may or may not be upgraded every 3+ years? Anyone want to commit?

And it's guaranteed that the producer (Apple) will keep you, the customer, absolutely clueless on any future plans for no particular reason.

siurpeeman
Jun 11, 2012, 06:43 PM
The Mac Pro in particular has raised the ire of some Apple fans because it has been several years (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Mac_Pro) since the last update

less than two years is not several.

Nostromo
Jun 11, 2012, 06:44 PM
Here's the link to David Pogue's post:

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/an-explanation-of-the-news-from-apple/

The article is weak and reads like an Apple press release.

Is that all the New York Times can afford as a columnist: an Apple mouthpiece?

And what is Pogue talking about? A release in 2013?

Come on! Professional users have been waiting for two years. And what happened? A joke upgrade: the same old Mac Pros with the same old generation processors with a negligible speed bump.

Eidorian
Jun 11, 2012, 06:46 PM
If it is true that Apple is holding off until a new hardware design for the Mac Pro is ready, then it is understandable that they wouldn't want to waste R&D on a new logic board on the latest crop of Intel processors. However, unfortunately Intel doesn't usually drop the prices on previous generation processors much if at all so Apple didn't have many options if they wanted to introduce an update that used the same type of processors but didn't decrease their profit margins.What is Apple waiting for in 2013? Ivy Bridge-E? The one that uses the same Socket 1356/2011?

Prodo123
Jun 11, 2012, 06:46 PM
I think the Mac Pro will get Thunderbolt as soon as a PCIe Thunderbolt card comes out for Windows PCs.

Phoenix Feet
Jun 11, 2012, 06:47 PM
Pogue was the same guy Apple used to tell video pros that Final Cut X was going to be great really really soon, and you didn't need industry standard stuff like EDLs anyway 'cause they're old and dumb and smell funny. If this is an attempt to quell uncertainty, they picked the wrong guy.

I don't trust Pogue, or that Apple is interested in the top end anymore.

ilujon
Jun 11, 2012, 06:48 PM
The Tech Specs say they are using E5 processors.

scottsjack
Jun 11, 2012, 06:48 PM
Check the store. Mac Pro updated today. Silent release.

Please pay better attention.

ouimetnick
Jun 11, 2012, 06:50 PM
If you go to the new MacPro on Apple Store and hit compare .. it compares the new MacPro to the iMac 27" but it if you look at that iMac specs .. it does not exists ... yet ....

They existed. Well for everything but the RAM. Those specs are from 2010 iMacs. Apple forgot to change them.

2010 specs were identical, but shipped with 4GB RAM, not 6GB.

Atlantico
Jun 11, 2012, 06:51 PM
Here's the link to David Pogue's post:

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/an-explanation-of-the-news-from-apple/

The article is weak and reads like an Apple press release.

Is that all the New York Times can afford as a columnist: an Apple mouthpiece?

And what is Pogue talking about? A release in 2013?

Come on! Professional users have been waiting for two years. And what happened? A joke upgrade: the same old Mac Pros with the same old generation processors with a negligible speed bump.

Yeah, I don't get it, does Pogue really have to write like Apple PR?

And I completely agree, a 2013 release is too little, waaaay too late. People will move on, money doesn't wait until Apple feels good and ready to grace us with a proper Mac Pro update.

It's not like it's an expensive venture for Apple and indeed the Mac Pro has margins that match the iToys. :cool:

urbanlung
Jun 11, 2012, 06:51 PM
GnnnnrrrrghhggrrgnnnnnnnnghghgnnnhhggghhhrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRGGGRRR!

I want my iMac.

iztech
Jun 11, 2012, 06:52 PM
Just get a QUO Computer at least it's half the price of MacPro and they have configured some of these to beat Macs.

applesith
Jun 11, 2012, 06:52 PM
iMac isn't dead. That was never even a question David.

ixodes
Jun 11, 2012, 06:52 PM
What possible reason would Apple have to wait that bloody long?

Because they can. Apple has masterfully put themselves in a position of ultimate power & they relish using it.

nec207
Jun 11, 2012, 06:53 PM
Here's the link to David Pogue's post:

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/an-explanation-of-the-news-from-apple/

The article is weak and reads like an Apple press release.

Is that all the New York Times can afford as a columnist: an Apple mouthpiece?

And what is Pogue talking about? A release in 2013?

Come on! Professional users have been waiting for two years. And what happened? A joke upgrade: the same old Mac Pros with the same old generation processors with a negligible speed bump.


The hard drive and video card is the same no upgrade here .But the RAM is what they updated and made the CPU a bit faster.


Old http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=342627&d=1339442551


New http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro


Also the price is much cheaper now.

Sean4000
Jun 11, 2012, 06:53 PM
Hey guys I'm still fairly new here.

Can I curse on this forum? (Serious question).

:(

I won't flag you. Can't speak for others though. I might even join you.

umbilical
Jun 11, 2012, 06:53 PM
imac retina for Christmas? with iphone 5 :D

wikus
Jun 11, 2012, 06:54 PM
LOL @ 'probably'

Apple doesnt care about creative professionals. If the last 5 years have been any indication, theyre going to kill off the Mac Pro. Its not like theyve ever cared all that much to begin with anyway. Not like Mac Pro users ever had a tolerable choice in video cards... todays 'updated' mac pro still has the ATI 5770, no USB 3.0 and no Thunderbolt.

Apple has its head up its a$$, there are so many professionals who would benefit greatly from a proper mac pro machine.....

Bubba Satori
Jun 11, 2012, 06:55 PM
Pogue was the same guy Apple used to tell video pros that Final Cut X was going to be great really really soon, and you didn't need industry standard stuff like EDLs anyway 'cause they're old and dumb and smell funny. If this is an attempt to quell uncertainty, they picked the wrong guy.

I don't trust Pogue, or that Apple is interested in the top end anymore.

He's a leg humping evangelist masquerading as a tame journo.
Nobody takes him or his flagrant PR propaganda seriously.

Ryan Frank
Jun 11, 2012, 06:56 PM
i say they will be released in October with iPhone and release of iOS 6:apple:

Atlantico
Jun 11, 2012, 06:56 PM
The Tech Specs say they are using E5 processors.

No, tech specs say they are using 6-Core Intel Xeon E5645 processor, which is *not* an E5, the serial just starts with an E5xxx.

The E5645 is a Westmere processor and was released march 16, 2010.

:p

tech4all
Jun 11, 2012, 06:56 PM
It's nice to have first world problems...

True. But as long as we don't over amplify the issue or equate to needing food and water, it's not too unreasonable to want an update.

chrono1081
Jun 11, 2012, 06:56 PM
Poor, poor Mac Pro users...

Eh, mine still works like a charm and its a 2010 model. Amazingly fast, just like day 1.

It is unfortunate for those waiting to buy but the new price drops will be helpful to some.

Stridder44
Jun 11, 2012, 06:57 PM
Dear god I would hope the iMacs aren't scheduled for 2013.

Seriously :( I'm not asking for a big fancy redesign, just a nice spec update.

MacForum55
Jun 11, 2012, 06:58 PM
If you go to the new MacPro on Apple Store and hit compare .. it compares the new MacPro to the iMac 27" but it if you look at that iMac specs .. it does not exists ... yet ....

That is interesting... Checked it out after you're post. However it lists a lot of seemingly old parts besides the 6GB RAM which seemed pretty weird.

I'm guessing they haven't updated that page in a while and that they made an error typing the processor and RAM moreso than thats the specs of the new iMac as that would really underwhelm most purchasers and than what is the point of not releasing it today?

chrono1081
Jun 11, 2012, 06:59 PM
It's nice to have first world problems...

You know it is perfectly acceptable to talk about things other than war, famine and strife. This is a technology forum, not the Unicef forums.

nec207
Jun 11, 2012, 07:00 PM
The Tech Specs say they are using E5 processors.

What ? It look like the new CPU are 20% fater than the old CPU if that is what they are using.

Xtremehkr
Jun 11, 2012, 07:01 PM
If the iMac is on a 5 year update cycle than 5 years from November of 2009 is November of 2014 or there a bouts. It's likely that there will be incremental updates before then.

If it takes that long the iMac update should be amazing. Retina display, SSD + HDD standard, larger display, thinner body, more power, more ram, more microphones, there are so many possibilities.

Yoursh
Jun 11, 2012, 07:02 PM
I think the Mac Pro will get Thunderbolt as soon as a PCIe Thunderbolt card comes out for Windows PCs.

Unfortunately, there isn't going to be standard PCIe thunderbolt cards. It's not a technical limitation. You can route a Thunderbolt controller through PCIe, but Intel is pushing it as a motherboard component. You're only going to see manufacturers building it into the motherboard. Asus is making an 'upgrade' PCIe thunderbolt card for a few select motherboards. Though it also requires wiring it into the onboard video. Not an elegant 'Apple-like' solution.

As an aside, I was planning on upgrading from my '08 MP if we saw a new thunderbolt model with upgraded CPU and GPU's. Now, I'll just invest in a modest GPU upgrade for my MP and wait Apple out. With this update, I don't think whatever comes out next will be a strait MP replacement. We'll see.

Eidorian
Jun 11, 2012, 07:04 PM
I think the Mac Pro will get Thunderbolt as soon as a PCIe Thunderbolt card comes out for Windows PCs.ASUS has Thunderbolt Add-in cards for select Intel 7 Series boards and it appears they are going to extend support to AM3+ as well.

zedsdead
Jun 11, 2012, 07:05 PM
A spec bump to the iMac and Mac Mini are still likely to happen this year I would imagine...likely this summer.

The redesigned Retina Display iMac and redesigned Mac Pro are probably farther off, and that makes sense for next year.

johnnyrb
Jun 11, 2012, 07:06 PM
I heard that the iMacs and MacPro would be updated sometime before the end of 2020.

/sarcasm

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:07 PM
"With Pogue's post today, however, the future of the Mac Pro seems slightly more assured."

Assured only for the hold-out fanboys who need to continue "to believe". I mean, come on, a two-year-old video card? It takes that much work to support a current card in order to get Apple's biggest, toughest, pro computer through another year?

Where are the high-end six-core and dual six-core options? The only that that the Mac Pro got was cheaper to buy. That's exactly what should happen to outdated technology being sold to clear inventory.

It's so clear that light-weight computers that high-school kids can talk to are where Apple's head is at right now.

Those high school kids buying near-$3000 laptops with up to 16GB of RAM and Thunderbolt peripherals are everywhere nowadays--so annoying. :rolleyes:

Eh, mine still works like a charm and its a 2010 model. Amazingly fast, just like day 1.

It is unfortunate for those waiting to buy but the new price drops will be helpful to some.

Some sanity and perspective! How refreshing. :)

aaaaaaron
Jun 11, 2012, 07:08 PM
Mac Pro 2013

Ivy Processor (Quad-core)
Super Slim
6 GB RAM (Not user upgradable)
2 256GB SSD Standard, with 4 slots available (Can be upgraded to 768GB per slot, but not user upgradable)
4 Thunderbolt Ports
3 USB 3 Ports
Bluetooth 4
No Firewire (Adaptor available for $50)
No Ethernet (Adaptor available for $50)
OSX 10.9 Jungle Cat
Requires Retina Monitor (OSX 10.9 and up)

....will probably be awesome :rolleyes:

MUBiomed
Jun 11, 2012, 07:09 PM
Those high school kids buying near-$3000 laptops with up to 16GB of RAM and Thunderbolt peripherals are everywhere nowadays--so annoying. :rolleyes:


You might be surprised how accurate your sarcasm may be

GroundLoop
Jun 11, 2012, 07:09 PM
Apple is just trying to get the entire pro community on the same update cycle. That way, they know the entire base will upgrade with each update. Nothing like a little cynicism in the evening.

To be honest though, I wouldn't mind seeing apple combine the iMac and the Mac pro into a single desktop line. With thunderbolt, the reasoning of combining the display and computer doesn't really exist anymore.

GL

turboblake
Jun 11, 2012, 07:10 PM
What bothers me is if we have to wait until 2013 for a big redesign, then many of the components will most likely not be backwards compatible. That means that I will never get to update the POS graphics card that I currently have (Well its outdated thats for sure). Honestly, would it be so hard to just update the Graphics cards and allow some USB 3 cards to be installed?

pacman7331
Jun 11, 2012, 07:11 PM
Really it is quite sad, Apple should not even put a new badge on the mac pro with old hardware. But as others have said they are probably waiting for ivy xeons so they could do USB 3.0. It would look bad (as it already does) to have a laptop with better hardware than desktop, so they did not bother put much R&D into the update.

I think they should continue to drop the prices to make up for it.

On the other hand a high end Mac Pro is still about 2x as fast as a even new MBP. And you can put a GPU in there that would still clobber the even new MBP. like a GTX 580.

High end Geekbench Scores are still over 20k and that is plenty fast to keep up with any desktop i7. But they are a bit expensive I would say given their aged technology.

If they wiat till ivy bridge for a substantial update, it will not be a mistake.

Mostly Intel is holding up the show. But Apple should be embarrased to suggest their Mac Pros are new.

But some1 suggested Mac Pros be made slimmer...
I think the whole point of Mac Pros is the Tower build.
Apple needs a Tower. Towers allow expandability, slimming it down would defeat the purpose.

Meanwhile yall should just build a Hackintosh.

zemoleman
Jun 11, 2012, 07:11 PM
If Pogue is accurate then these had better be laser-like utensils as opposed to the sporks that were dropped on us today. No excuse for Tim Cook/Apple not giving us whatever they are planning TODAY.

cowbellallen
Jun 11, 2012, 07:11 PM
The iMac used to be the crown jewel of Apple's empire and now, after 405 days since the last refresh, we can't even get a full-sized keyboard as a minor update.

newdeal
Jun 11, 2012, 07:13 PM
Too bad they dont drop the price to reflect the old hardware lol

arkmannj
Jun 11, 2012, 07:13 PM
I hope so, otherwise Apple may lose people to even more Hackintoshes for powerful/pro machines.

I'm also in hopes that Apple will make their 27" thunderbolt display a retina display soon, although I could see where that would be mighty expensive.

MUBiomed
Jun 11, 2012, 07:14 PM
I hope so, otherwise Apple may lose people to even more Hackintoshes for powerful/pro machines.

I'm also in hopes that Apple will make their 27" thunderbolt display a retina display soon, although I could see where that would be mighty expensive.

nahhh... :rolleyes:

mozumder
Jun 11, 2012, 07:16 PM
Well the people that are going to need it, will buy it.

The new MacBook Pro with the Ivy Bridge is going to be nearly as fast as a Mac Pro, and Thunderbolt ports cover pretty much every common IO standard.

There are very few specific features that the mac pros have that macbook pro's don't have, such as video interfaces, but i suspect that even those are going to move to a Thunderbolt adapter eventually. Even RAID is done through thunderbolt now, so you won't need a Mac Pro for that.

Really, very few people actually need Mac Pros.

nec207
Jun 11, 2012, 07:16 PM
Really it is quite sad, Apple should not even put a new badge on the mac pro with old hardware. But as others have said they are probably waiting for ivy xeons so they could do USB 3.0. It would look bad (as it already does) to have a laptop with better hardware than desktop, so they did not bother put much R&D into the update.

I think they should continue to drop the prices to make up for it.

On the other hand a high end Mac Pro is still about 2x as fast as a even new MBP. And you can put a GPU in there that would still clobber the even new MBP. like a GTX 580.

High end Geekbench Scores are still over 20k and that is plenty fast to keep up with any desktop i7. But they are a bit expensive I would say given their aged technology.

If they wiat till ivy bridge for a substantial update, it will not be a mistake.

Mostly Intel is holding up the show. But Apple should be embarrased to suggest their Mac Pros are new.

But some1 suggested Mac Pros be made slimmer...
I think the whole point of Mac Pros is the Tower build.
Apple needs a Tower. Towers allow expandability, slimming it down would defeat the purpose.

Meanwhile yall should just build a Hackintosh.

They updated the RAM that was big update. The CPU was update a bit but not that much just slight update.

The video card and hard-drive stay the same.

Yoursh
Jun 11, 2012, 07:17 PM
Honestly, would it be so hard to just update the Graphics cards and allow some USB 3 cards to be installed?

Actually, that is one thing I'm keeping my eye on. Now with OSX natively supporting USB 3.0 with the new Macbook models, I think it's just a matter of time till we see more Mac compatible USB 3.0 cards. If this happens, I see throwing one in my MP to get a little more life out of it.

apolloa
Jun 11, 2012, 07:19 PM
I think Apple are going to see the reaction to the new Retina MB Pro's BEFORE updating the rest of the range, why else has it launched only one machine with the screen, it could have easily implemented it into the 13" Pro and the Air's.

So I think next year, we will see totally redesigned iMacs with retina and flash storage and a totally redesigned Mac Pro with some tasty options and retina cinema display's. And imagine a Mac Pro with SSD's as standard?

Although I do feel sorry for the current Pro owners, it would have been good for Apple to launch options to 16 core machines? But maybe the new one is such a new design that's why they have done such a soft update?

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:19 PM
You might be surprised how accurate your sarcasm may be

Well a lot of those high-school kids look like pro video editors, photographers, and musicians to me... Very odd.

Sorry, more sarcasm. But if you really think the average US teen is ordering a Retina MacBook Pro today, I think you're vastly overestimating the economic status of most American families. That is a pro machine, no question.

Blue Sun
Jun 11, 2012, 07:20 PM
The Mac Pro is dead, todays minor bumps have confirmed it.

Apple are clearing their current inventory, simple as that.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:20 PM
I think Apple are going to see the reaction to the new Retina MB Pro's BEFORE updating the rest of the range, why else has it launched only one machine with the screen, it could have easily implemented it into the 13" Pro and the Air's.

So I think next year, we will see totally redesigned iMacs with retina and flash storage and a totally redesigned Mac Pro with some tasty options and retina cinema display's. And imagine ac Pro with SSD's as standard?

I like the sound of that! :apple:

Lancer
Jun 11, 2012, 07:23 PM
I'm pretty sure that quote is only referring to the Pros being updated next year.

Dear god I would hope the iMacs aren't scheduled for 2013.

I hope so, I really NEED a new Mac to replace my 2005 G5 PM and want an iMac but not going to buy one knowing it could be released in weeks.

Does Apple normally release any other hardware over the next few does at the WWDC?

bedifferent
Jun 11, 2012, 07:24 PM
Let's ignore the Mac Pro, neglect it for a few years, fail to update it, which leads to professionals and businesses losing interest and faith in Apple's pro-line, then claim "desktops/workstations are dead" as sales fall due to Apple's neglect. Yeah, that makes sense. :rolleyes:

Apple FAIL

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:25 PM
The Mac Pro is dead, todays minor bumps have confirmed it.

Apple are clearing their current inventory, simple as that.

Unless you're a high-level Apple exec (unlikely if you're posting here), you have absolutely no idea what will happen to the Mac Pro.

They discontinued the 17" MBP today--are you saying they had no inventory of that machine, but some Mac Pros lying around they needed to get rid of? It seems more likely to me that they gave the Pro a little bump and price drop because it is rather outdated, keeping it around until the new design ships.

Apple has not historically left products around to clear inventory. They have a refurb store that can be used to clear inventory if they really need to.

But, you know, I'm not Tim Cook or Phil Schiller, so I'm just speculating.

Shaun, UK
Jun 11, 2012, 07:25 PM
It's always manana manana

nec207
Jun 11, 2012, 07:26 PM
The Mac Pro is dead, todays minor bumps have confirmed it.

Apple are clearing their current inventory, simple as that.

How is RAM that is 2 times more than what they had before and a 20% fater CPU than the old one a minor bumps .

Old http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=342627&d=1339442551


New http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:26 PM
I hope so, I really NEED a new Mac to replace my 2005 G5 PM and want an iMac but not going to buy one knowing it could be released in weeks.

Does Apple normally release any other hardware over the next few does at the WWDC?

Not in the next few days after WWDC, nor during WWDC, but quite commonly during the next few weeks. If you're in the market for an iMac, I recommend you hold off until you absolutely can't do without one.

Having siad that, the current iMacs are powerhouses, so you'll be OK either way.

iLilana
Jun 11, 2012, 07:26 PM
Not using standard parts in the new macbookpro makes repair work an effin nightmare. I just got shivers down my spine from remembering the days of the first bondi iMac, different ram etc etc. Its cool and if I can afford it I'll get it the new MBP. but the ridiculous price of ram for that model kinda pisses me off. I believe its not removable. which means if you want the 16gb version its apple ram or nothing. I was however looking forward to a giant leap in pro tower specs. Making them with no USB3 and no Thunderbolt means this lady is not buying it until they show some serious pro tower love. The lack of ivy/xeon x-over was disheartening.

neat just realized I was upgraded to 6502. about time... its been 9 years.

scottsjack
Jun 11, 2012, 07:26 PM
The hard drive and video card is the same no upgrade here .But the RAM is what they updated and made the CPU a bit faster.

Also the price is much cheaper now.

Wow, the RAM is updated! It's still not enough and is too expensive. A new Mac Pro owner in the USA is still going to get his RAM from OWC.

Note that the standard HDD is a 1TB with 32MB cache, just like the Caviar Black unit came in my 2010 MP in August 2010. Even then I was already buying Caviar Blacks with 64MB cache since the 32MB model had been replaced.

Where does Apple find these museum quality components?

Blue Sun
Jun 11, 2012, 07:28 PM
How is RAM that is 2 times more than what they had before and a 20% fater CPU than the old one a minor bumps .

Old http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=342627&d=1339442551


New http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro

Calling this bump anything other than "minor" is laughable. Look at what they did to the MBP mate.

They even kept the same graphics card which is over 2 years old.

trip1ex
Jun 11, 2012, 07:28 PM
Yeah exec might have been talking about retina screens and redesign and not spec bump iMac release.

NOt sure what a spec bump release gains the iMac though. Ivy Bridge was more about laptops.

macrumorsuser10
Jun 11, 2012, 07:28 PM
I posted this news snippet from David Pogue on the Mac Pro forum (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1384081) at 3:56 PM PDT. And then "Susan" gives a tip to MacRumors, and it shows up on the front page at 4:30 PM PDT. Looks like "Susan" stole my news clip. I wonder what else "Susan" has stolen in her life? Credit cards? Cars? Children?

tomihasa
Jun 11, 2012, 07:30 PM
I love my old Mac Pro 8-Core, which is much less laggy than my MacBook Pro. I hope Apple remembers the end users in this.

nec207
Jun 11, 2012, 07:30 PM
Calling this bump anything other than "minor" is laughable. Look at what they did to the MBP mate.

They even kept the same graphics card which is over 2 years old.

What do you mean?

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:31 PM
How is RAM that is 2 times more than what they had before and a 20% fater CPU than the old one a minor bumps .

Old http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=342627&d=1339442551


New http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro

Well said. I would love to know how many of the complainers on the forum today actually need a machine more powerful than the current Mac Pro. My guess is... one or two, at most. Probably fewer. ;-)

Then there are all the people decrying the (non)end of the MP, who could never afford to buy one anyway.

neversink
Jun 11, 2012, 07:33 PM
What a bunch of crap!!! I feel as if Apple has spit on the face of professional users. They have kicked the core group of Apple users in the face, the users who stuck by Apple when they were being beat up by Microsoft.

The Mac Pro upgrade should be called Mac Amateur, thee is NOTHING pro about this upgrade.

I am moving to BOXX...

I hope I can do UNIX on a BOXX machine. If not, then I will, believe it or not, switch to Windows....

Apple has not kept up to date with professional graphics hardware. Final Cut Pro is being abandoned by professionals and now the Mac Pro will suffer the same fate. Apple is no longer cutting edge....

Nobita
Jun 11, 2012, 07:33 PM
So the Mayans won't see the new mac pro before the end of the world...

mentholiptus
Jun 11, 2012, 07:34 PM
You know it is perfectly acceptable to talk about things other than war, famine and strife. This is a technology forum, not the Unicef forums.

...it was in jest.

I'm looking forward to buying a Mac Pro revision. Maybe next time.

Peace
Jun 11, 2012, 07:34 PM
There is some hope.

In the last build and any earlier builds of OSX the system info said " no thunderbolt devices" . Now with the new build it says " no thunderbolt drivers installed" . This could mean some companies are coming out with thunderbolt for the PCI . I know before you say it can't be done Asus just did it with one of their boards that didn't support thunderbolt.


Ahh.. What the hell I'm delusional.

xbjllb
Jun 11, 2012, 07:35 PM
And if you believe that, I've got a Michigan "job creator" to sell ya....

How in the world they are going to justify another Mac Pro after a year of the single most dismal sales in the company's history is a real mind bender.

I know. They're waiting for the end of the Mayan calendar.

Just to make sure there's a planet.

:apple:

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 07:35 PM
This is kind of weak damage control (eh, iMac delay, whatever but the Mac Pro thing was just weird).

neversink
Jun 11, 2012, 07:36 PM
Well said. I would love to know how many of the complainers on the forum today actually need a machine more powerful than the Mac Pro. My guess is... one or two, at most. Probably less. ;-)

Then there are all the people decrying the (non)end of the MP, who could never afford to buy one anyway.

You know nothing... Just conjecture... Go ahead fanny boy, stick your butt in the air. Me, I'm not going to let Apple screw me. My business, as do my competitors, need all the power we can get. I cannot afford to not move to BOXX as many of my competitors have already abandoned Apple. I need to stay on the cutting edge of technology, the cutting edge which Apple appears to have abandoned. Sorry if you live in La La land.

subsonix
Jun 11, 2012, 07:36 PM
They may have something new in the pipeline which simply wasn't ready. If they wanted to discontinue it why update it at all?

I don't think they sit on much inventory actually, Apple appears to be a pretty well oiled machine. http://www.tuaw.com/2012/06/01/gartner-apple-turns-over-inventory-every-five-days/

calaverasgrande
Jun 11, 2012, 07:36 PM
when did they stop offering Raid as a BTO option?
That ind of sucks, though of course I can just buy a raid card.
I was really hoping for something compelling to upgrade to.
oh well.

AidenShaw
Jun 11, 2012, 07:37 PM
Another 12-18mo for the Mac Pro herd to thin out even more so Apple can eventually say, 'Well, there's just not enough demand so it's not fiscally responsible to keep manufacturing and offering Mac Pros."

I think this is called a "self-fulfilling prophesy" - neglect the system to the point that nobody wants it, then cancel it because "it's not selling".


Or they are waiting for Ivy Bridge Xeons due in 2013 to include native USB 3.0.

I would hope not, since it would be easy to find the fraction of a cm² needed for a discrete USB 3.0 controller (or two) on the humonguous logic boards of the Mac Pro.


No excuse for still shipping that video card in this "update.". None.

More than anything else, using the 5770 is a signal that the Mac Pro is dead.

Unfortunately, MacRumours reset the clock in the buying guide to "0 days since update" - when in fact March 2009 was the last significant upgrade to the MP.


Here's the link to David Pogue's post:

http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/an-explanation-of-the-news-from-apple/

The article is weak and reads like an Apple press release.

Is that all the New York Times can afford as a columnist: an Apple mouthpiece?

He's a leg humping evangelist masquerading as a tame journo.
Nobody takes him or his flagrant PR propaganda seriously.

+100

Pogue's rabid devotion even embarrases the Apple fans....

Rot'nApple
Jun 11, 2012, 07:39 PM
If you go to the new MacPro on Apple Store and hit compare .. it compares the new MacPro to the iMac 27" but it if you look at that iMac specs .. it does not exists ... yet ....

Good catch... I wonder if and when they will release this specs bump of the basic 27" iMac model?

EDIT: Read another post that said those were 2010 specs? Huh? If so, who the heck works on Apple's website to miss that glaring error?!
/
/
/

Lancer
Jun 11, 2012, 07:39 PM
Not in the next few days after WWDC, nor during WWDC, but quite commonly during the next few weeks. If you're in the market for an iMac, I recommend you hold off until you absolutely can't do without one.

Having siad that, the current iMacs are powerhouses, so you'll be OK either way.
I've waited a while, only good thing is I can save up some more money.

Right now I hope the predictions of a release with Mountain Lion comes true. I can live with the current design but would dearly love USB3 and a matt screen.

xbjllb
Jun 11, 2012, 07:41 PM
Steve Jobs found a way to take Apple with him.

Now THAT'S visionary genius.

:apple:

wikus
Jun 11, 2012, 07:42 PM
I've waited a while, only good thing is I can save up some more money.

Right now I hope the predictions of a release with Mountain Lion comes true. I can live with the current design but would dearly love USB3 and a matt screen.

You can forget about an iMac with a matte screen. I guarantee you that will not happen anytime soon, if ever.

StealthGhost
Jun 11, 2012, 07:42 PM
You could have a monster of a PC for $2500

or buy a Mac Pro and get ATI Radeon HD 5770 that was released in Oct 13, 2009

Pablocine
Jun 11, 2012, 07:43 PM
To believe this, first I´d like to have Apple CEO Tim Cooks explain what he meant by:"We are making successful products in the post PC era". Phrase that he repeated more than five times in the Special Apple Event, March 2012.

Please, talk to us.

Sincerely,

Pablo

P.D. Just watch the first minutes on this link to hear that phrase repeatedly.

http://events.apple.com.edgesuite.net/123pibhargjknawdconwecown/event/index.html

chrono1081
Jun 11, 2012, 07:43 PM
...it was in jest.

I'm looking forward to buying a Mac Pro revision. Maybe next time.

Oops my bad :o I didn't realize you were joking.

Doug183
Jun 11, 2012, 07:44 PM
Here is a very strange idea. Do you think Apple has an ace up their sleeve in the area of super fast computing? That next year they are going to release something radical, something much much faster? A whole new architecture of like 15 Arm11 chips in parallel or something of the like. I read an article in Scientific America about splitting up the CPU and putting different parts on the RAM boards which would make computers much much faster.


Look at the assortment of facts.

1) Intel has basically dropped the ball on the development of server chips. That is no SandyBridge server chips, and 12 months later finally an Ivy Bridge one. Remember what happened the last time a chip manufacturer couldn't keep up with Apple (IBM - PPC)

2) Six core Nehlam is slower but on par with i7 both Sandy and Ivy. - read #3

3) Although more cores are good, more than 4 are basically pointless unless you use one of a few high end programs that utilize these cores - AE, FCPX, Maya, AutoCad, 3D Modeling, Logic/Pro Tools... etc. Looking at benchmarks for rendering, the 12 core Nehlam machines still outpace everything else.

4) Back to processor speed. Advancement in speed over the last 4-5 years has lagged in terms of computers getting faster. Look at the MacPro rendering scores and you will see a lot of the speed increases are due to motherboard architecture change and graphic cards rather than actual processors changes.

5) So if you are into high-end rendering, the 12 core machine with a good graphics cards is going to be good enough for now.

6) With the release of the laptop Ivy Bridge and Mountain Lion, the hackintosh market is going to go into overdrive. Why will Apple let that happen?

7) The costs of developing a new motherboard and processor for the MacPro would be minimal since they already are releasing Ivy Bridge laptops. ANd they could just recycle the old boxes.

With that all said, why wouldn't Apple just release a new i7 Xeon machine? I actually can not think of any good reason. So there must be some other explanation. I wonder what it is.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:44 PM
You know nothing... Just conjecture... Go ahead fanny boy, stick your butt in the air. Me, I'm not going to let Apple screw me. My business, as do my competitors, need all the power we can get. I cannot afford to not move to BOXX as many of my competitors have already abandoned Apple. I need to stay on the cutting edge of technology, the cutting edge which Apple appears to have abandoned. Sorry if you live in La La land.

Your eloquence is impressive.

bedifferent
Jun 11, 2012, 07:49 PM
Well said. I would love to know how many of the complainers on the forum today actually need a machine more powerful than the current Mac Pro. My guess is... one or two, at most. Probably fewer. ;-)

Then there are all the people decrying the (non)end of the MP, who could never afford to buy one anyway.

I'm tired of the complainers complaining about the justifiable neglect given to the prosumer line.

As AidenShaw just commented:

I think this is called a "self-fulfilling prophesy" - neglect the system to the point that nobody wants it, then cancel it because "it's not selling".

Spot on.


Move on.

charlituna
Jun 11, 2012, 07:51 PM
Getting this info exclusively from third parties borders on insulting.

What is insulting is all these Pros who talk about they have been with Apple for years forgetting that no advance info is Apple's standard, for consumer stuff also. And many consumers aren't keen to get a computer and then 2 months later there's a new one.

neversink
Jun 11, 2012, 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by neversink
You know nothing... Just conjecture... Go ahead fanny boy, stick your butt in the air. Me, I'm not going to let Apple screw me. My business, as do my competitors, need all the power we can get. I cannot afford to not move to BOXX as many of my competitors have already abandoned Apple. I need to stay on the cutting edge of technology, the cutting edge which Apple appears to have abandoned. Sorry if you live in La La land.

Your eloquence is impressive.

It isn't eloquent when the money you have invested in the tools becomes so outdated, and the company you have come to trust, abandons you to the wolves. There is nothing eloquent about what Apple just did to the Mac Amateur (the s0-called upgrade of the Mac Pro.) This machine is so far behind HP or BOXX....

I love the Apple OS, but I need a machine that can keep up with my workload and compete in the not-so-eloquent business world.....

Sorry if that offends you...

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:52 PM
I've waited a while, only good thing is I can save up some more money.

Right now I hope the predictions of a release with Mountain Lion comes true. I can live with the current design but would dearly love USB3 and a matt screen.

Going by the new MBP Retina screen, I suspect future glass-display Macs will have "reduced glare" at least, if not matte, as such. Can't wait for the new iMac--probably my next machine (as much as I'm drooling over that new MBP).

kps
Jun 11, 2012, 07:52 PM
Richard Feynman concluded his appendix (http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/rogers-commission/Appendix-F.txt) to the report on the Challenger loss by writing: “For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled.” How is this relevant here? It's because it points to the window into Apple that ‘doubling down on secrecy (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/29/tim-cook-at-d10-were-going-to-double-down-on-secrecy-on-products/)’ can't cover. It got little attention here (only 30 comments (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/07/password-security-hole-discovered-in-certain-filevault-configurations-on-os-x-10-7-3/)) but 10.7.3 exposed the passwords of users with networked home folders. A catastrophic security hole with a one-line fix, reported within days but left untouched until the media started picking up on it three months later, shows exactly where Apple chooses not to spend its billions.

laserbeam273
Jun 11, 2012, 07:54 PM
Who would seriously wait a total of 3 years for a proper update?! At this point, if Apple really wants to keep the pro market, they need to do a press release.

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 07:55 PM
Pogue's rabid devotion even embarrases the Apple fans....

I may be wrong but doesn't Pogue also do softball "reviews" of Android devices? Just saying, he is an equal opportunity offender when it comes to writing junk.

Raineer
Jun 11, 2012, 07:57 PM
Because they can. Apple has masterfully put themselves in a position of ultimate power & they relish using it.

Yes - that's exactly what I picture. A scene with folks like Cheney and Bush smoking cigars around a table in a darkened room. Gutteral guffaws echo throughout the chamber as they play with figurines of loyal Apple customers, they make them cry tiny tears as they install matching polarity magnets in little Mac Pro figurines. All the customers run and run but can't catch them :( GUFFAWS ALL AROUND.

sadface

retard

Fraaaa
Jun 11, 2012, 07:57 PM
Here is a very strange idea. Do you think Apple has an ace up their sleeve in the area of super fast computing? That next year they are going to release something radical, something much much faster? A whole new architecture of like 15 Arm11 chips in parallel or something of the like. I read an article in Scientific America about splitting up the CPU and putting different parts on the RAM boards which would make computers much much faster.


Look at the assortment of facts.

1) Intel has basically dropped the ball on the development of server chips. That is no SandyBridge server chips, and 12 months later finally an Ivy Bridge one. Remember what happened the last time a chip manufacturer couldn't keep up with Apple (IBM - PPC)

2) Six core Nehlam is slower but on par with i7 both Sandy and Ivy. - read #3

3) Although more cores are good, more than 4 are basically pointless unless you use one of a few high end programs that utilize these cores - AE, FCPX, Maya, AutoCad, 3D Modeling, Logic/Pro Tools... etc. Looking at benchmarks for rendering, the 12 core Nehlam machines still outpace everything else.

4) Back to processor speed. Advancement in speed over the last 4-5 years has lagged in terms of computers getting faster. Look at the MacPro rendering scores and you will see a lot of the speed increases are due to motherboard architecture change and graphic cards rather than actual processors changes.

5) So if you are into high-end rendering, the 12 core machine with a good graphics cards is going to be good enough for now.

6) With the release of the laptop Ivy Bridge and Mountain Lion, the hackintosh market is going to go into overdrive. Why will Apple let that happen?

7) The costs of developing a new motherboard and processor for the MacPro would be minimal since they already are releasing Ivy Bridge laptops. ANd they could just recycle the old boxes.

With that all said, why wouldn't Apple just release a new i7 Xeon machine? I actually can not think of any good reason. So there must be some other explanation. I wonder what it is.

What are the performance of the current Mac Pro or old Mac Pro compare to competitors? Some mentioned that would move to HP Z820 (http://www.hp.com/united-states/campaigns/workstations/z820_features.html#.T9aTOo5ZVUQ).

I do understand that this update is not fair, but can anyone could tell me how the two compare in performance? I'm talking real numbers. I don't know, rendering or whatever else you find more comfortable to show. I just want to understand as I'm not into professional softwares.

edoates
Jun 11, 2012, 07:57 PM
We can only hope the Apple continues to want to serve the developer and professional community ... not just the prosumers and college kids building one iPad app, but serious pros.

If that's the case, then the only hope is that the MacPro and iMacs will be completely rethought with that service in mind - case design, processor choices, modularity, etc. The extant MacPro design isn't really much different than an old G3 tower, except it's metal and looks like a cheese grater.

"And and now, something completely different!"

"Think Different"

Eddie O

PS: I just bought the 6 processor MacPro - couldn't keep running the old G5 quad any more. Can't run any new apps, etc. Did save money compared to last week, though.

bungiefan89
Jun 11, 2012, 07:58 PM
Another 12-18mo for the Mac Pro herd to thin out even more so Apple can eventually say, 'Well, there's just not enough demand so it's not fiscally responsible to keep manufacturing and offering Mac Pros."I would totally not be surprised if that's what their plan is here. Today's announcement was all about MOBILE stuff. All the portable computers. The Mac Pro got a tiny bump, and NO love was given to the iMac OR the Mac Mini!

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 07:59 PM
You know nothing... Just conjecture... Go ahead fanny boy, stick your butt in the air. Me, I'm not going to let Apple screw me. My business, as do my competitors, need all the power we can get. I cannot afford to not move to BOXX as many of my competitors have already abandoned Apple. I need to stay on the cutting edge of technology, the cutting edge which Apple appears to have abandoned. Sorry if you live in La La land.



It isn't eloquent when the money you have invested in the tools becomes so outdated, and the company you have come to trust, abandons you to the wolves. There is nothing eloquent about what Apple just did to the Mac Amateur (the s0-called upgrade of the Mac Pro.) This machine is so far behind HP or BOXX....

I love the Apple OS, but I need a machine that can keep up with my workload and compete in the not-so-eloquent business world.....

Sorry if that offends you...

It doesn't offend me at all. I honestly hope you find the machine you need, and I understand that it's disappointing you won't be using OSX (unless you build a Hackintosh). But Apple isn't screwing you. They're just doing what they do: running their company the way they want to run it. It may be disappointing to you, but Apple doesn't owe you anything. They're not in the business of disappointing their customers, but they can't let their customers, especially a small number of them, dictate their product line. That would be corporate suicide. And finally, Apple is still very much leading the computer world in tech, but their advancements are just not ones that interest you so much.

apolloa
Jun 11, 2012, 08:00 PM
The company late last year was reportedly "questioning (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/31/apple-questioning-the-future-of-its-mac-pro-line/)" the future of the Mac Pro line, examining whether it should continue offering the professional-level workstation as sales have declined amid a continued shift toward notebook machines and specs that had gone stale while waiting for Intel to release updated processors. With Pogue's post today, however, the future of the Mac Pro seems slightly more assured.

Also if this statement is true, then I seriously doubt 6 months is enough time for Apple to heavily invest in a totally new redesigned Mac Pro! Again hence the story of next year being the year it gets updated.
Apple cannot make another classic case design in a few months that will last years, I mean with the current one you have the case and motherboard being bespoke to each other.

Mak47
Jun 11, 2012, 08:01 PM
Too bad they dont drop the price to reflect the old hardware lol

They basically did. With the exception of the entry level model, you're getting a lot more processor for the money. Yesterday the 12 core model was $5K, today it's $3800 and comes with double the RAM.

I would have loved to see a massive update to the Pro just like everyone else, but the reality is that the options available from Intel right now aren't going to allow it. Yes, there is a newer processor option available that could work for a single processor option, but to get the same in a dual socket model would be exorbitantly expensive.

Add to that, they're Sandy Bridge generation processors. They'll support Thunderbolt, but not USB 3.0. Who in their right mind is going to spend thousands more and still not have USB 3.0? Especially when the rest of the Mac lineup has it.

Thunderbolt is a great thing, but the Mac Pro (while being a professional machine) is the one computer Apple makes that needs it the least. The majority of the peripherals on the market right now are (expensive) hubs that give laptops and iMacs the I/O options that the Mac Pro already has. Would it be nice? Sure. Is it worth an extra $1K-$2K? Nope.

At the end of the day, I don't see that moving to Sandy Bridge E chips is really going to offer that much to the Mac Pro. Yes, there's a speed increase, but is it enough to justify the cost? For all but the handful of people that need the absolute fastest machine possible, no.

Instead, what we got was a confirmation that the line isn't being killed. The lower tiered options are still available. The high tiered options got a major price cut.

This isn't an insult. A price increase and a bunch of pomp around a still deficient upgrade to Sandy Bridge would have been.

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:04 PM
We can only hope the Apple continues to want to serve the developer and professional community ... not just the prosumers and college kids building one iPad app, but serious pros.

If that's the case, then the only hope is that the MacPro and iMacs will be completely rethought with that service in mind - case design, processor choices, modularity, etc. The extant MacPro design isn't really much different than an old G3 tower, except it's metal and looks like a cheese grater.

"And and now, something completely different!"

"Think Different"

Eddie O

PS: I just bought the 6 processor MacPro - couldn't keep running the old G5 quad any more. Can't run any new apps, etc. Did save money compared to last week, though.

I don't know about the iMac (because really, it is just a cinema display with a computer in it...not much to rethink) but the Mac Pro, yes, they are probably completely rethinking it. Whether that is good or not is another question (a lot of people hated Final Cut Pro X). I wouldn't be surprised if we saw something more modular and takes advantage of Thunderbolt beyond "here is a port that can replace firewire, display port, and ethernet". What sucks is that if they really are doing this they won't tell us until it is nearly ready to ship if not shipping. After the insanely bad "update" that happened today they could start hemorrhaging customers. They need more than to have one of their approved outlets repeat an empty statement. They, frankly, need to do a Back to the Mac style event but for the desktop hardware (it killed the "Apple doesn't care about Macs" meme and now we're left with "Apple doesn't care about Pros/desktop" meme).

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 11, 2012, 08:04 PM
They basically did. With the exception of the entry level model, you're getting a lot more processor for the money. Yesterday the 12 core model was $5K, today it's $3800 and comes with double the RAM.

I would have loved to see a massive update to the Pro just like everyone else, but the reality is that the options available from Intel right now aren't going to allow it. Yes, there is a newer processor option available that could work for a single processor option, but to get the same in a dual socket model would be exorbitantly expensive.

Add to that, they're Sandy Bridge generation processors. They'll support Thunderbolt, but not USB 3.0. Who in their right mind is going to spend thousands more and still not have USB 3.0? Especially when the rest of the Mac lineup has it.

Thunderbolt is a great thing, but the Mac Pro (while being a professional machine) is the one computer Apple makes that needs it the least. The majority of the peripherals on the market right now are (expensive) hubs that give laptops and iMacs the I/O options that the Mac Pro already has. Would it be nice? Sure. Is it worth an extra $1K-$2K? Nope.

At the end of the day, I don't see that moving to Sandy Bridge E chips is really going to offer that much to the Mac Pro. Yes, there's a speed increase, but is it enough to justify the cost? For all but the handful of people that need the absolute fastest machine possible, no.

Instead, what we got was a confirmation that the line isn't being killed. The lower tiered options are still available. The high tiered options got a major price cut.

This isn't an insult. A price increase and a bunch of pomp around a still deficient upgrade to Sandy Bridge would have been.

Very smart observations, IMO.

Winni
Jun 11, 2012, 08:07 PM
less than two years is not several.

In the computer industry, it's an eternity.

But there's no surprise here. The desktop is dead. Just like DVD drives. We're supposed to use their mobile gadgets, their iTunes supply chain and their iCloud. Really, there's nothing surprising here at all.

Apple focuses exclusively on consumers now. If you're not in that target audience, you should find a new supplier.

Instead, what we got was a confirmation that the line isn't being killed. The lower tiered options are still available. The high tiered options got a major price cut.

The German word for a product that is being treated like this is "Auslaufmodell". I don't care to look up an English translation, but feel free to visit dict.leo.org to find one.

Ingot
Jun 11, 2012, 08:07 PM
You know it is perfectly acceptable to talk about things other than war, famine and strife. This is a technology forum, not the Unicef forums.

I am a very small man. I shouldn't have laughed, but I did...

ShiftyPig
Jun 11, 2012, 08:09 PM
Later next year... aka, pro users aren't *actually* that important to us.

faroZ06
Jun 11, 2012, 08:11 PM
I think people switched from the Mac Pro because Apple never updated it. When you leave a computer un-updated for so long, of course you are going to get decreased sales!

Lesser Evets
Jun 11, 2012, 08:12 PM
By that time it will be released as a Retro-Apple bijou. I remember when Apple developed pro Macs, too... that was so "last decade".

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:13 PM
In the computer industry, it's an eternity.

But there's no surprise here. The desktop is dead. Just like DVD drives. We're supposed to use their mobile gadgets, their iTunes supply chain and their iCloud. Really, there's nothing surprising here at all.

Apple focuses exclusively on consumers now. If you're not in that target audience, you should find a new supplier.

Oh stop with this nonsense. Before the new Macbook Air everyone was calling iOS the death of the Macintosh. Now that we have the more consumer ready Air and the flagship Macbook Pro you've just taken the same meme and put on "*Except the Macbook Air and Pro" on the end of it. The statement is just as silly then as it is now.

And again, what is Apple doing with the Mac Pro? Beats me. My pet theory is they'll kill it and replace it with something completely different (they're putting a lot of effort into the Mini for whatever reason). But that is just me.

Desktop ≠ Optical drives and Hard drives just like Desktop ≠ Floppy drives (the rise of the laptop and subsequently netbook happened after all the Windows PC makers got the clue that they should drop floppies).

dampfdruck
Jun 11, 2012, 08:13 PM
I consider this "upgrade" an insult to the pro community.

faroZ06
Jun 11, 2012, 08:13 PM
In the computer industry, it's an eternity.

But there's no surprise here. The desktop is dead. Just like DVD drives. We're supposed to use their mobile gadgets, their iTunes supply chain and their iCloud. Really, there's nothing surprising here at all.

Apple focuses exclusively on consumers now. If you're not in that target audience, you should find a new supplier.


Not many people use DVD drives, and they have their drawbacks. If you want one, just get an external one.

hayesk
Jun 11, 2012, 08:14 PM
Apple focuses exclusively on consumers now. If you're not in that target audience, you should find a new supplier.


Bull. You got confirmation from the CEO. Other than bending the laws of physics there's nothing Apple could do aside from wasting time trying to match PC specs of the day. They're making a new machine, it's not ready yet. If you are really a pro, today's machine will pay for itself, and then you can make a huge jump next year.

boomish
Jun 11, 2012, 08:15 PM
You could have a monster of a PC for $2500

or buy a Mac Pro and get ATI Radeon HD 5770 that was released in Oct 13, 2009

Why did some Apple clone lover mark this post down? he is absolutely right, the super minor upgrade to the Mac Pro was a kick in the teeth to Pro users, who the hell is going to pay 3K plus for a machine with a 3 year old bus speed and graphics card when their business is, realtime audio or film rendering/processing. What a bloody joke!!! I simply can't believe how poor this release is of the Mac Pro, this shows Apple can't give a toss about its "pro" base that has supported it for so many years. Easier to chase the new phone flashy prosumers with cash that want something shiny & silver...I'm sure Steve would NOT have let this happen..
I needed this Mac Pro release today, I have a massive job starting in ten days and I can't work off my 2011 17" Macbook pro anymore, the noise is ubearable, I already mailed the order dept this morn in anticipation! Now what..

soundguyami
Jun 11, 2012, 08:15 PM
That is interesting... Checked it out after you're post. However it lists a lot of seemingly old parts besides the 6GB RAM which seemed pretty weird.

I'm guessing they haven't updated that page in a while and that they made an error typing the processor and RAM moreso than thats the specs of the new iMac as that would really underwhelm most purchasers and than what is the point of not releasing it today?

I don't know if you guys are not refreshing your pages or what..but the current Xeon server class chips will blow the roof off of an iClass processor. Hense why you will not find an i7 in a server and also there is not an i based 6 core chip.

Lone Deranger
Jun 11, 2012, 08:15 PM
Maybe it's Apple's perverted way of separating the wheat from the chaff. ;)

faroZ06
Jun 11, 2012, 08:18 PM
Desktop ≠ Optical drives and Hard drives just like Desktop ≠ Floppy drives (the rise of the laptop and subsequently netbook happened after all the Windows PC makers got the clue that they should drop floppies).

Yes, exactly. Optical drives are useless for most people and make the computer thicker while making it hotter and using more electricity. If you need it, get an external one.

My iMac's stupid slot DVD drive got jammed for over a year because I put a Windows 98 CD in there that was apparently defective. It wasn't a problem.

----------

Why did some Apple clone lover mark this post down? he is absolutely right, the super minor upgrade to the Mac Pro was a kick in the teeth to Pro users, who the **** is going to pay 3K plus for a machine with a 3 year old bus speed and graphics card when their business is, realtime audio or film rendering/processing. What a bloody joke!!! I simply can't believe how poor this release is of the Mac Pro, this shows Apple can't give a toss about its "pro" base that has supported it for so many years. Easier to chase the new phone flashy prosumers with cash that want something shiny & silver...I'm sure Steve would NOT have let this happen..
I needed this Mac Pro release today, I have a massive job starting in ten days and I can't work off my 2011 17" Macbook pro anymore, the noise is ubearable, I already mailed the order dept this morn in anticipation! Now what..

I think Mac Pros are great for professionals, but this lack of updates is horrible. You guys are right. Anyway, I'm getting a 2008 Mac Pro soon, so I don't have to worry.

Rideherhard
Jun 11, 2012, 08:19 PM
New iMac is the new TV that Apple is working on, can also be controlled by iPad and file sharing between the 2.

Eidorian
Jun 11, 2012, 08:20 PM
Bull. You got confirmation from the CEO. Other than bending the laws of physics there's nothing Apple could do aside from wasting time trying to match PC specs of the day. They're making a new machine, it's not ready yet. If you are really a pro, today's machine will pay for itself, and then you can make a huge jump next year.Just like Steve's more great PowerPC products in the pipeline...

faroZ06
Jun 11, 2012, 08:20 PM
Bull. You got confirmation from the CEO. Other than bending the laws of physics there's nothing Apple could do aside from wasting time trying to match PC specs of the day. They're making a new machine, it's not ready yet. If you are really a pro, today's machine will pay for itself, and then you can make a huge jump next year.

I don't understand this hype about upgrading computers. In 2008, pros used 2008 computers. Why do they suddenly need faster processors?

But still, paying the "new" price for old stuff sucks. Get used ones from eBay, and they're way cheaper. I'm getting an 8-core Mac Pro for under $1000 that is old but is still crazy fast.

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:20 PM
Yes, exactly. Optical drives are useless for most people and make the computer thicker while making it hotter and using more electricity. If you need it, get an external one.

My iMac's stupid slot DVD drive got jammed for over a year because I put a Windows 98 CD in there that was apparently defective. It wasn't a problem.

----------



I think Mac Pros are great for professionals, but this lack of updates is horrible. You guys are right. Anyway, I'm getting a 2008 Mac Pro soon, so I don't have to worry.

And as far as hard drives = pro that is a complete joke. Servers are switching to SSDs (and cost an arm and a leg and a kidney). Hard drives are great for mass storage still but their performance is lacking.

Ballis
Jun 11, 2012, 08:22 PM
Very dissapointed the iMac wasnt updated. And when updating the OS for retina, i think its a little weird only one model laptop supports it. Not much incentive for third parties to upgrade their apps.

iEdd
Jun 11, 2012, 08:22 PM
Hahaha, "later next year" for iMacs and Mac Pros. Was this definitely from Tim Cook? It's either:
a) Massive troll (not him; fake).
b) Or he's being unbelievably deliberately obtuse. "Oh iMacs? Pretty sure those still said new on the store website."

subsonix
Jun 11, 2012, 08:23 PM
I needed this Mac Pro release today, I have a massive job starting in ten days and I can't work off my 2011 17" Macbook pro anymore, the noise is ubearable, I already mailed the order dept this morn in anticipation! Now what..

I'm sure the current Mac Pro is going to be a significant upgrade to a 2011 17" Macbook pro. As an aside, two 8 core Sandy Bridge-EP will set you back $3800 just for the CPUs.

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:23 PM
Very dissapointed the iMac wasnt updated. And when updating the OS for retina, i think its a little weird only one model laptop supports it. Not much incentive for third parties to upgrade their apps.

It is a flagship model. We didn't get the ready for prime time Macbook Air until years later (I owned one and it was a fine machine for the time but it was expensive and rough around the edges).

Basically, the only reason to get the new Macbook Pro is if you have extra money and want the future a little bit early and are okay with some rough spots.

Edit: and as far as iMacs...I seriously doubt we're getting higher resolution iMac displays soon.

CausticPuppy
Jun 11, 2012, 08:24 PM
"Later next year."


Later next year?



Later NEXT year??

faroZ06
Jun 11, 2012, 08:26 PM
You could have a monster of a PC for $2500

or buy a Mac Pro and get ATI Radeon HD 5770 that was released in Oct 13, 2009

Pro tip: Buy used Mac Pros off eBay if you feel that they are being sold for more than they are worth. In some cases, they are, and you can get a much better deal.

Note that the MacBook Pros on eBay sell for about the same that Apple sells them for (even barely less after 2 years of use), but the Mac Pros do not. This shows the value/price.

----------

Very dissapointed the iMac wasnt updated. And when updating the OS for retina, i think its a little weird only one model laptop supports it. Not much incentive for third parties to upgrade their apps.

A 24" retina display is hard to make. Look at the price of those 15" MacBook Pros that have retina displays. We need better technology first.

MPQholygrail
Jun 11, 2012, 08:27 PM
Honestly I am forced to use a favorite saying I have heard recently. “Words fall from mouth like sh* from as*.” (Sparticus) The truth is I have yet to see that one professional that has suffered loosing a substantial amount of clients due his workflow being held up because his Mac Pro is just too slow. Realistically I would like to see someone here tell me how much money they have lost in their business because a 6 SSD Raid complete, 128GB of ram 12 Cores at 3.46 GH, with ESATA 4gb Fiber Cards just cost them so much money that ROI simply is impossible at this point.

Not going to happen, I’m not trolling but just looking for some hard Financial Data that suggests this actually affects A QUANTIFIABLE amount of professionals. Again, the key point here is Professionals not Prosumers.

We all like new, fast and pretty things but don’t start using the Professional* ect ect card. Thunderbolt cars will come; they already have a plethora of adapters out.

By the way OWC provides some of the means for upgrading some of these items.

faroZ06
Jun 11, 2012, 08:27 PM
And as far as hard drives = pro that is a complete joke. Servers are switching to SSDs (and cost an arm and a leg and a kidney). Hard drives are great for mass storage still but their performance is lacking.

Who ever said that hard drives = pro? That is completely wrong. The only people I know with SSDs are rich kids with MacBook Airs and pros with Mac Pros that have SSDs in them.

A good combo is: small SSD for documents and OS, big fat hard drive for storage of music and video.

neversink
Jun 11, 2012, 08:29 PM
Yes, Yes, Yes.... The new upgrade to the Mac Pro, now dubbed the Mac Amateur.... Yes, I've said it before, and the more I discuss it with my colleagues the more we realize that Apple has abandoned us.... BOXX or HP... I'll hate to leave the Mac OS and don't know what I'll do with my MBPs, but what choice do I have. I need to keep up with my competitors. My cameras have all been updated and they use much more power to import and edit.... The old machines can't keep up... UGH!!!!

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:29 PM
Who ever said that hard drives = pro? That is completely wrong. The only people I know with SSDs are rich kids with MacBook Airs and pros with Mac Pros that have SSDs in them.

Oh that wasn't you. But it was implied in the whole "Apple hates the Pro market like they hate optical and hard drives" that i replied to then you replied to me and I was agreeing and so on.

reallynotnick
Jun 11, 2012, 08:30 PM
All they had to do was put Sandy Bridge-E in it, throw Thunderbolt and USB 3 on it and put a new graphics card in it and call it a day. People would have been happy.

I'm glad they are working on an update, but next year is way too late.

Glideslope
Jun 11, 2012, 08:31 PM
"Later Next Year"? Tim, WTF? :apple:

faroZ06
Jun 11, 2012, 08:32 PM
Oh that wasn't you. But it was implied in the whole "Apple hates the Pro market like they hate optical and hard drives" that i replied to then you replied to me and I was agreeing and so on.

Oh, I was just wondering who said that hard drives are pro. That other guy thought that? Well he is wrong.

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:33 PM
Yes, Yes, Yes.... The new upgrade to the Mac Pro, now dubbed the Mac Amateur.... Yes, I've said it before, and the more I discuss it with my colleagues the more we realize that Apple has abandoned us.... BOXX or HP... I'll hate to leave the Mac OS and don't know what I'll do with my MBPs, but what choice do I have. I need to keep up with my competitors. My cameras have all been updated and they use much more power to import and edit.... The old machines can't keep up... UGH!!!!

You'd be silly to not consider a migration path at this point. Still, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions here. The evidence seems to support that the update today wasn't entirely by choice for Apple and that it was basically the minimum required to let them keep selling the old model as far as parts. This seems to support the idea that Apple is indeed working on something and they're not going to be ready for at least six months (which sucks). But if you can wait that long it would probably be a good idea to see what Apple can do before committing to switching platforms.

Naaaaak
Jun 11, 2012, 08:34 PM
With Pogue's post today, however, the future of the Mac Pro seems slightly more assured.
Last week everyone took Jim Dalrymple's "No" in response to "Will Apple kill off the Mac Pro?" as assurance. Today, it's Pogue's "Probably in 2013". Stop looking to journalists for assurance and start looking at the source. Apple gave us all of the non-assurance in the world today.

Bottom line: The MacPro is not important enough to them to actually update it with the times. When you need to update it (as so many of us 2006-era Mac Pro owners do) you will be abandoned by OS requirements and given a choice to pay a ridiculous amount for leftovers if you want to keep using this line.

skyline r34
Jun 11, 2012, 08:35 PM
I feel really sorry for all who waited for the 2012 Mac Pro with it's minor updates, i guess I won't be selling my current 12-Core MP anytime soon, I'm waiting until next year for a new Mac Pro but for now I got my eye on the new 15"inch Retina display MBP

mozumder
Jun 11, 2012, 08:35 PM
It's obviously going to be a major system redesign.

My guess: probably a modular, rack-mounted system - buy CPU modules, GPU modules, Memory Modules, Storage modules, Network Modules, Power Supply modules, Cooling modules, etc..

neversink
Jun 11, 2012, 08:35 PM
You'd be silly to not consider a migration path at this point. Still, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions here. The evidence seems to support that the update today wasn't entirely by choice for Apple and that it was basically the minimum required to let them keep selling the old model as far as parts. This seems to support the idea that Apple is indeed working on something and they're not going to be ready for at least six months (which sucks). But if you can wait that long it would probably be a good idea to see what Apple can do before committing to switching platforms.

Good advice... but I don't know if I can afford to wait that long. I already feel behind on the curve...

Umbongo
Jun 11, 2012, 08:38 PM
They basically did. With the exception of the entry level model, you're getting a lot more processor for the money. Yesterday the 12 core model was $5K, today it's $3800 and comes with double the RAM.

You're getting the pricing updates to Intel's Xeon line from February 2011 applied today. The ones that Apple aren't using probably aren't being made by Intel any more as they were redundant so long ago.

I would have loved to see a massive update to the Pro just like everyone else, but the reality is that the options available from Intel right now aren't going to allow it. Yes, there is a newer processor option available that could work for a single processor option, but to get the same in a dual socket model would be exorbitantly expensive.

Apple are using two $551 processors, two $996 and two $1,440. Intel have DP Xeons using the Sandy Bridge architecture at those sort of price points and they are better than the ones being used now.

Add to that, they're Sandy Bridge generation processors. They'll support Thunderbolt, but not USB 3.0. Who in their right mind is going to spend thousands more and still not have USB 3.0? Especially when the rest of the Mac lineup has it.

Plenty of UP and DP LGA 2011 boards have USB 3.0 connectivity.

Instead, what we got was a confirmation that the line isn't being killed. The lower tiered options are still available. The high tiered options got a major price cut.

A price cut that Apple could have applied in 2011.

NY Guitarist
Jun 11, 2012, 08:38 PM
Update: A MacRumors reader writes in to share an email he received from Apple CEO Tim Cook after he asked about the future of the Mac Pro:
Quote:
Our pro customers are really important to us...don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year.

Wait... later NEXT year? Haha... this is a joke.. right..? lol... good one... wait... your NOT joking??

Edit: I see a number of other posts that echo my post. I was compelled to post after reading Cooks response, but before reading through the thread posts.

The post PC era might really mean post-MACINTOSH era.

macnews
Jun 11, 2012, 08:38 PM
I hope you are right. A release a year from now with current 2013 specs will not really be worth waiting for. A new machine that can take the pro stuff to the next level, that would be nice.

While my 2009 machine is still running nicely, I have to ask for how much longer? I've been waiting and waiting for a decent update and this isn't it. I can wait another year to update that one but also have two other older mac pros which I need to update. Held off for this WWDC in hopes of a good bump. I can't afford to drop $7k on 2 year old hardware (basically). I don't know, maybe stretch my one machine out for another year and see if I can do a hackintosh on some old PCs for cheaper....

Here is a very strange idea. Do you think Apple has an ace up their sleeve in the area of super fast computing? That next year they are going to release something radical, something much much faster? A whole new architecture of like 15 Arm11 chips in parallel or something of the like. I read an article in Scientific America about splitting up the CPU and putting different parts on the RAM boards which would make computers much much faster.


Look at the assortment of facts.

1) Intel has basically dropped the ball on the development of server chips. That is no SandyBridge server chips, and 12 months later finally an Ivy Bridge one. Remember what happened the last time a chip manufacturer couldn't keep up with Apple (IBM - PPC)

2) Six core Nehlam is slower but on par with i7 both Sandy and Ivy. - read #3

3) Although more cores are good, more than 4 are basically pointless unless you use one of a few high end programs that utilize these cores - AE, FCPX, Maya, AutoCad, 3D Modeling, Logic/Pro Tools... etc. Looking at benchmarks for rendering, the 12 core Nehlam machines still outpace everything else.

4) Back to processor speed. Advancement in speed over the last 4-5 years has lagged in terms of computers getting faster. Look at the MacPro rendering scores and you will see a lot of the speed increases are due to motherboard architecture change and graphic cards rather than actual processors changes.

5) So if you are into high-end rendering, the 12 core machine with a good graphics cards is going to be good enough for now.

6) With the release of the laptop Ivy Bridge and Mountain Lion, the hackintosh market is going to go into overdrive. Why will Apple let that happen?

7) The costs of developing a new motherboard and processor for the MacPro would be minimal since they already are releasing Ivy Bridge laptops. ANd they could just recycle the old boxes.

With that all said, why wouldn't Apple just release a new i7 Xeon machine? I actually can not think of any good reason. So there must be some other explanation. I wonder what it is.

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:40 PM
Bottom line: The MacPro is not important enough to them to actually update it with the times. When you need to update it (as so many of us 2006-era Mac Pro owners do) you will be abandoned by OS requirements and given a choice to pay a ridiculous amount for leftovers if you want to keep using this line.

If all things were equal in a fair world I would agree. But this isn't that world. I'm not going to defend Apple because frankly they needed to have said something instead of this stealth "update". And I don't mean through a media intermediate (love loopinsight.com but Apple shouldn't have us rely on him for something like this). I'm willing to believe Apple is working on something. It would be beyond insane to just secede the Pro market (just as it would be beyond insane for Apple to kill OS X and go iOS only...which had understandable worry surrounding it after 10.5 was delayed due to iOS). Apple sucks when it comes to communication because they want to delight us with new stuff. The problem comes when they just flat out can't so they do nothing instead until they get it right (copy and paste anyone?).

juanm
Jun 11, 2012, 08:41 PM
I don't understand this hype about upgrading computers. In 2008, pros used 2008 computers. Why do they suddenly need faster processors?


Because in 2008, the hype was 1080p with the 5D mkII. Now, it's stereoscopic 3D. We're starting to see 4K footage. After that, they will expect us to work with 4K stereoscopic 3D...

In 3D animation and VFX, it's common to have scenes that take hours of computing and rendering, per frame. Imagine when we will have to work in 4K!

As technology advances, more and more is expected, and many artists/technicians can't upgrade a 6000$ computer every year. We have to take our purchases decisions very seriously, and right now, those working with Apple-based workflows and pipelines are being left in the dust. A 1000€ pc is faster and much more expandible than a 2500€ Mac Pro. Which means, 3D animation studios using W7 will be able to afford three times more workstations, and cut their in-house render times by three, and so on...
We have to know whether to go back to Windows (which means buying new software and train to use it) or hold onto our existing workflow for a few more months. All the expectancy and hype is good and fun for consumers, but for professionals, it's a dangerous game to play.

gramirez2012
Jun 11, 2012, 08:42 PM
I'm really hoping the iMacs and/or Minis are updated within a month or so. Ivy Bridge and USB3 are all I'm asking for.

bobobenobi
Jun 11, 2012, 08:43 PM
I feel really sorry for all who waited for the 2012 Mac Pro with it's minor updates, i guess I won't be selling my current 12-Core MP anytime soon, I'm waiting until next year for a new Mac Pro but for now I got my eye on the new 15"inch Retina display MBP

Why the **** would selling a 12 core Mac Pro even enter the back recesses of your mind? What is your machine unable to do for you?

I have a an "early 2009" eight core Mac Pro and the thing still ****ing KILLS, three years in. Sure, it's got an OWC SSD and 24GB of RAM, but I have never thought that the machine was slow in any way.

Pompiliu
Jun 11, 2012, 08:44 PM
Can't wait for them to release a new MacPro with thunderbolt for my new Apple Displays.:D
SSD Raid... OMG Can't wait.:D

jwatts
Jun 11, 2012, 08:47 PM
Ok so I im in desperate need of an upgrade and cannot make a decision especially without a refresh on the iMac and a meaningful refresh on the Mac Pro. I got a quote for a maxed out 27inch iMac 16GB ram ssd + 2TB hard drive for scratch. Should I stick with that, will it suffice for DSLR/HPX CS6 editing on thunderbolt drives? Or get a new Macbook Pro. I would definitely go for the Macbook Pro primarily because of the graphic card and GPU acceleration but I find it painful to edit on a 15 inch screen. Should I go for the retna 16GB ram Macbook Pro option and buy a bigger display? I won’t even be using the retna but like I said want that graphic card. I’m over the Mac Pro and want basically an all in one at this point. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:48 PM
Good advice... but I don't know if I can afford to wait that long. I already feel behind on the curve...

I don't blame you. Time is money and some stuff really does require more power. But think of it this way, how much time would it take to switch over your workflows now? More than 6 months, I bet. You can plan without pulling the trigger.

Woodcrest64
Jun 11, 2012, 08:48 PM
The idea of not having the Mac Pros updated until 2013 makes sense in some ways. The current Sandy Bridge-E processors from Intel don't have thunderbolt support on their current platform. Its not until the end of 2012 where Intel is suppose to release native USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt for that platform.

I had a feeling Apple wouldn't do a major update to the Mac Pro because of this unless Intel had something ready for Apple which clearly they don't.

Ivy bridge has native thunderbolt and usb 3.0 with the Z77 chipset but that is not for the Pro market. I was surprised not to see iMacs updated though considering Ivy Bridge is out for the PC market.

Eidorian
Jun 11, 2012, 08:48 PM
Plenty of UP and DP LGA 2011 boards have USB 3.0 connectivity.Not to mention 40 on a single socket or EIGHTY (80) PCI-Express 3.0 lanes on a dual to play with under Sandy Bridge-E.

There is no lack of money, bandwidth, and lanes for all (8-12) USB 3.0 ports on a Mac Pro in addition to FireWire and Thunderbolt.


The idea of not having the Mac Pros updated until 2013 makes sense in some ways. The current Sandy Bridge-E processors from Intel don't have thunderbolt support on their current platform. Its not until the end of 2012 where Intel is suppose to release native USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt for that platform.

I was had a feeling Apple wouldn't do a major update to the Mac Pro because of this unless Intel had something ready for Apple which clearly they don't.

Ivy bridge has native thunderbolt and usb 3.0 with the Z77 chipset but that is not for the Pro market. I was surprised not to see iMacs updated though considering Ivy Bridge is out for the PC market.Thunderbolt is still a chipset, controller, and logic pathing issue and not a processor one. You can run a Sandy Bridge processor on that fancy new Z77 board and use Thunderbolt just fine.

You are using an additional controller for Thunderbolt under Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge. The Intel 7 Series introduced USB 3.0 onto the PCH and a new lower process manufacturing.

charlituna
Jun 11, 2012, 08:50 PM
Completely agreed.

Has Apple gone collectively insane? Do they think people would have stopped buying yesterday's or even today's Mac Pro had they just announced publicly that they are working on a new one - instead of «leaking» it to David goddam Pogue??!

The only proof that they leaked anything to Pogue is his claims. Fact is that he's basically gone from a once good indie tech blogger to a paid shill who hit whores like the rest of them. His executive could be second cousin to Harvey the Rabbit for all we know. If he really had any clout or collections he would have wrangled a comment from Tim or Phil etc. I mean if some random nobody can email Tim and get a reply, Pogue should have been able to

ezekielrage_99
Jun 11, 2012, 08:53 PM
Not meaning to either
1) Repeat
2) Troll

The *new* Mac Pro is a pretty poor effort, seriously how can Apple consider an standard build o a 5770 as "professional" graphics card. It's not, thus it looks like a my next computer is going to be a Boxxtech with CentOS 5 because I need a beefy graphics card and a 5770 is pretty darn poor for geospatial graphics.

sputnikv
Jun 11, 2012, 08:53 PM
i've noticed that apple's raid card is no longer being offered as an option with the new mac pros

leesmith2
Jun 11, 2012, 08:54 PM
Who ever said that hard drives = pro? That is completely wrong. The only people I know with SSDs are rich kids with MacBook Airs and pros with Mac Pros that have SSDs in them.

A good combo is: small SSD for documents and OS, big fat hard drive for storage of music and video.

I can't disagree with you, but a big fat hard drive attached to a Thunderbolt port works really well.

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 08:55 PM
Not to mention 40 on a single socket or EIGHTY (80) PCI-Express 3.0 lanes on a dual to play with under Sandy Bridge-E.

There is no lack of money, bandwidth, and lanes for all (8-12) USB 3.0 ports on a Mac Pro in addition to FireWire and Thunderbolt.


Thunderbolt is still a chipset, controller, and logic pathing issue and not a processor one. You can run a Sandy Bridge processor on that fancy new Z77 board and use Thunderbolt just fine.

This is why I think Apple is doing something completely different. Because, yes, they could slap a Pro like the current ones together with upgraded parts. Whenever Apple leaves a product to stagnant they're either about to kill it or they're going to completely redesign it. Apple has repeatedly denied they're ignoring the Pro market. So I doubt they're going to kill the segment (or they're looking to destroy the company). Where the problem comes is how are they redesigning it?

charlituna
Jun 11, 2012, 08:55 PM
No excuse for Tim Cook/Apple not giving us whatever they are planning TODAY.

You can't really say that unless you know what they are planning to give us. It's not Apple's style to pre announce hardware. especially if they don't know when it will release and they might not yet. They could be waiting for some particular amazing component that isn't ready yet, or at least not at the scale they need.

AidenShaw
Jun 11, 2012, 08:55 PM
Add to that, they're Sandy Bridge generation processors. They'll support Thunderbolt, but not USB 3.0. Who in their right mind is going to spend thousands more and still not have USB 3.0?

This is nonsense.

Sandy Bridge doesn't have a T-Bolt controller on the chipset - you need a fairly large discrete controller.

Sandy Bridge doesn't have a USB 3.0 controller on the chipset - you need a fairly small discrete controller.

Intel SB motherboards have USB 3.0 - which blows your argument out of the water...

Rocketman
Jun 11, 2012, 08:55 PM
People simply don't understand that Apple has maxed out the entire world's manufacturing capacity and technical limits in their field. They are under political attack in their home country on labor, regulations, taxation, and criminality, so must adjust.

You are lucky you are getting any computers at all, and the only thing saving Apple is the very social change they and their peers, and their app developers, are generating, out of thin air.

The world currently hates and wants to kill private innovation. Somebody has to blast back.

Rocketman

charlituna
Jun 11, 2012, 08:57 PM
The Mac Pro is dead, todays minor bumps have confirmed it.

Apple are clearing their current inventory, simple as that.

If they were clearing inventory they wouldn't bother with any bump, minor or not

digphotobyfrank
Jun 11, 2012, 08:57 PM
feels like a poor attempt at damage control by a paid shill. i see Apple only cares about selling baubles to the hapless consumer.

Atlantico
Jun 11, 2012, 08:58 PM
I'm pretty amazed (though I probably shouldn't be, I should know better) that there are people actually defending Apple, either shoveling the poo about how Apple had to do this, Intel just doesn't have the CPUs ready (which is a lie) or that they are too expensive (which is dumb, because they aren't really too expensive when one makes good money from using them) or the best one yet:

Why do you need a faster Mac Pro?

How could anyone be so dumbly kowtowing to Apple's idiocy?

A-mazing.

Anyway, Intel Sandybridge E5-2600 (dual sockets) are available for ~200-2000 dollars a piece (e.g. the 2000 dollar one is the eight core 2.2 GHz, a 6 core goes for 500 dollars or so)

A USB3 controller chip is available for the Mac Pro sandybridge motherboard if Apple would be at all interested.

Thunderbolt is supported natively from Intel.

And my oh my GPUs have come a long way since 2009, Apple.

I'm amazed someone is defending this - but even more amazed that the same people are just questioning the way people use their machines and what they can afford!

"you're using it wrong" is the extent of that argument :rolleyes:

AidenShaw
Jun 11, 2012, 08:59 PM
People simply don't understand that Apple has maxed out the entire world's manufacturing capacity and technical limits. They are under political attack in their home country on labor, regulations, taxation, and criminality, so must adjust.

You are lucky you are getting any computers at all, and the only thing saving Apple is the very social change they and their peers, and their app developers, are generating, out of thin air.

The world currently hates and wants to kill private innovation. Somebody has to blast back.

Rocketman


http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tin-foil-hat.jpg

charlituna
Jun 11, 2012, 09:01 PM
You can forget about an iMac with a matte screen.

no but they might use the same glass from the new macbook pro which is supposed to have like 60-70% less glare. And for many that is the real issue.

duffman9000
Jun 11, 2012, 09:01 PM
People simply don't understand that Apple has maxed out the entire world's manufacturing capacity and technical limits. They are under political attack in their home country on labor, regulations, taxation, and criminality, so must adjust.

You are lucky you are getting any computers at all, and the only thing saving Apple is the very social change they and their peers, and their app developers, are generating, out of thin air.

The world currently hates and wants to kill private innovation. Somebody has to blast back.

Rocketman

Just when I thought some people on Engadget deserved the king bonehead crown I see we have an heir to the throne. If Apple has maxed out the entire world's manufacturing capacity and technical limits it's a wonder ANYTHING gets manufactured.

digphotobyfrank
Jun 11, 2012, 09:02 PM
http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tin-foil-hat.jpg

Superb hat combo!

kingnimrod
Jun 11, 2012, 09:03 PM
We're working on something really great for later next year:

A statue of Tim Cook pissing on a fanboy huddling a Mac pro with a long grey beard on it.

faroZ06
Jun 11, 2012, 09:03 PM
You can forget about an iMac with a matte screen. I guarantee you that will not happen anytime soon, if ever.

I don't see what's so great about iMacs with matte screens. Also, do the 2006 and earlier models count as "matte"?

sloncek
Jun 11, 2012, 09:04 PM
I don't understand this hype about upgrading computers. In 2008, pros used 2008 computers. Why do they suddenly need faster processors?


Def. will know not to hire you, with your 2008 expertise. Its like saying why upgrade from Pentium 2. What do you do on a computer now that you couldnt do on the one from before?!

Atlantico
Jun 11, 2012, 09:04 PM
Not meaning to either
1) Repeat
2) Troll

The *new* Mac Pro is a pretty poor effort, seriously how can Apple consider an standard build o a 5770 as "professional" graphics card. It's not, thus it looks like a my next computer is going to be a Boxxtech with CentOS 5 because I need a beefy graphics card and a 5770 is pretty darn poor for geospatial graphics.

Just for the record, the Radeon HD 5770 was actually never a professional graphics card, it was a sub-200 dollar effort from AMD.

The RRP of the 5770 was around $160. It was a decent budget card and nothing to be ashamed of, but even in 2009 when it was released, it was far from being professional grade in any possible sense of the word.


:D

NAG
Jun 11, 2012, 09:04 PM
I don't see what's so great about iMacs with matte screens. Also, do the 2006 and earlier models count as "matte"?

For all those times you take your iMac to Starbucks to surf the internet. The glare from the windows can be really annoying.

Kidding.

irishgrizzly
Jun 11, 2012, 09:05 PM
People simply don't understand that Apple has maxed out the entire world's manufacturing capacity and technical limits. They are under political attack in their home country on labor, regulations, taxation, and criminality, so must adjust.

You are lucky you are getting any computers at all, and the only thing saving Apple is the very social change they and their peers, and their app developers, are generating, out of thin air.

The world currently hates and wants to kill private innovation. Somebody has to blast back.

Rocketman

This makes no sense.

charlituna
Jun 11, 2012, 09:06 PM
Not going to happen, I’m not trolling but just looking for some hard Financial Data that suggests this actually affects A QUANTIFIABLE amount of professionals. Again, the key point here is Professionals not Prosumers.


You probably won't find it because it's not true. At least not to some large group.

Real Pros are flexible and inventive. They use the tools they need and don't fuss over specifics. If Final Cut Pro running on an iMac routing to a $1000 PC running Linux as a render box gets the job done, that's what they will set up. Real pros also do things like over estimate how long a project will take. And then they look amazing when they get it finished a bit early.

duffman9000
Jun 11, 2012, 09:07 PM
People simply don't understand that Apple has maxed out the entire world's manufacturing capacity and technical limits. They are under political attack in their home country on labor, regulations, taxation, and criminality, so must adjust.

You are lucky you are getting any computers at all, and the only thing saving Apple is the very social change they and their peers, and their app developers, are generating, out of thin air.

The world currently hates and wants to kill private innovation. Somebody has to blast back.

Rocketman

http://www.keeptalkinggreece.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/tin-foil-hat.jpg

While some people think a tin foil hat keeps brainwashing rays out, I believe it contains the stupid thoughts to prevent mass infection.

cypress822
Jun 11, 2012, 09:10 PM
you know what would instill faith? Apple telling pro users that they will continue to support them. Its not like that information would benefit the competitors to any significant degree, and i'm positive it would put the minds of those who depend on this tool for a living, at ease.

Getting this info exclusively from third parties borders on insulting.

amen!!!!

iPadPublisher
Jun 11, 2012, 09:10 PM
Our pro customers are really important to us...don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year.

Later NEXT year? How about early next year? Or later THIS year?

Talk about making bad worse. He shouldn't have replied like that. Better to have treated her like he treated my email: keep it shut buddy. Now people are way more pissed off than just a few hours before now. Unreal.

Naaaaak
Jun 11, 2012, 09:10 PM
Our pro customers are really important to us...don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year.

So a developer with a 2006-era Mac Pro, which the upcoming Mountain Lion does not officially support, is supposed to wait around for up to a year and a half on Lion while Apple decides to update their desktops?

No thanks, I already see the light: Switch to a line that is actually updated at least once a year so when you need to update your hardware to use the newest software you can actually get some value out of it. Then I can avoid playing this stupid "wait up to 3 years or buy 2 year old hardware at premium cost" game.

Razorhog
Jun 11, 2012, 09:10 PM
If we don't see a release of a new iMac soon (with ML maybe) I'll be forced to...forced to...wait longer....UGGGHHHH.

Vegasman
Jun 11, 2012, 09:11 PM
This makes no sense.

Of course it does. When you are solidly planted in the RDF, it makes perfect sense.

Limboistik
Jun 11, 2012, 09:11 PM
Apple is not going to ditch the pro line.
They understand the significance of content creation and they will continue to support it.

I don't get why you are all freaking out, this is obviously not a new "launch" of the pro line, and really only a power bump that's necessary to hold off while they complete their redesign, instead of having no refresh at all.

They're not a company to release something unpolished, and especially not for the pro market.

remingtonhill
Jun 11, 2012, 09:12 PM
Not in the next few days after WWDC, nor during WWDC, but quite commonly during the next few weeks. If you're in the market for an iMac, I recommend you hold off until you absolutely can't do without one.

Having siad that, the current iMacs are powerhouses, so you'll be OK either way.

If he is getting by with a powermac G5 in 2012, he is NOT a MacPro customer.

Axemantitan
Jun 11, 2012, 09:13 PM
Another 12-18mo for the Mac Pro herd to thin out even more so Apple can eventually say, 'Well, there's just not enough demand so it's not fiscally responsible to keep manufacturing and offering Mac Pros."

That appears to be what they did with the 17" MBP. They offered it with the same specs as the 15", except for the screen size, and they killed demand for it. Now it is gone.

duffman9000
Jun 11, 2012, 09:14 PM
People are freaking out because the line is long in the tooth.

Axemantitan
Jun 11, 2012, 09:14 PM
What is AMD's current top-of-the-line processor? Could Apple have used that in the new Mac Pro instead?

Geolink
Jun 11, 2012, 09:16 PM
I'm confused... does this mean no refresh either?

Refresh = / = Re-design?

So maybe the refresh for the particular model available will still happen?

cypress822
Jun 11, 2012, 09:17 PM
If Pogue is accurate then these had better be laser-like utensils as opposed to the sporks that were dropped on us today. No excuse for Tim Cook/Apple not giving us whatever they are planning TODAY.

Could not agree more...why is apple insisting on being so stealth?? This is complete bull ****

remingtonhill
Jun 11, 2012, 09:17 PM
Not using standard parts in the new macbookpro makes repair work an effin nightmare. I just got shivers down my spine from remembering the days of the first bondi iMac, different ram etc etc. Its cool and if I can afford it I'll get it the new MBP. but the ridiculous price of ram for that model kinda pisses me off. I believe its not removable. which means if you want the 16gb version its apple ram or nothing. I was however looking forward to a giant leap in pro tower specs. Making them with no USB3 and no Thunderbolt means this lady is not buying it until they show some serious pro tower love. The lack of ivy/xeon x-over was disheartening.

neat just realized I was upgraded to 6502. about time... its been 9 years.

What Apps are you using that can benefit from more than 4 hyperthreaded cores? And please DON'T SAY PHOTOSHOP.

iPadPublisher
Jun 11, 2012, 09:17 PM
You know the other thing that frustrates me about this... if we're not gonna get USB3 or Thunderbolt - it would NOT have been that much more effort to start supporting SATA6.

The more I think about this, the more annoyed I become.

ps45
Jun 11, 2012, 09:18 PM
This thread seems to have deteriorated pretty quickly, but just to respond to the various voices that say things along the lines of 'hardly anyone needs anything more powerful than a 2010 MP'... please do not wear your ignorance so proudly. Just because you are not aware of such people is not relevant to the discussion.

There are many people in many industries for whom the most powerful computer they can get their hands on is still not enough. More power means getting more work done in less time, or at higher resolutions, or with more tracks, with less waiting time, with more flexibility to try different approaches etc.

This may be a small market, but it is a mature one and one which gave Apple the gravitas and the fundamentals that have gone on to make them the rare blend of luxury and mass-market in the consumer space.

BlazednSleepy
Jun 11, 2012, 09:21 PM
So speculation from a journalist who could have completely lied, and a quote from tim cook who emailed just some random user... :roll eyes:

I still have faith that the iMac's will be released before mountain lion.

ericinboston
Jun 11, 2012, 09:21 PM
As I have said NUMEROUS times on the forums here...Apple has basically abandoned the Mac line. Today's news yet again backs up my feeling:

1)The shuffling of brand names (Macbook is gone/promoted to Macbook Pro)

2)Except for the extremely expensive Retina Macbook, today's Mac laptop announcements offer minimal upgrades

3)Absolutely no mention of the desktop Macs (I think barely 44 people here even care about the Mac Pro desktop) which must have made 100% of the attendees wonder what the heck is going on.

4)Latest rumor is that the Mac desktops will be out sometime in 2013...6+ months from now. At best.

Apple, for over 10 years now, can't figure out what to do with the entire Mac line...Apple consistently mucks with the hardware (such as back and forth with Intel chips), raises and then lowers prices (Mac Mini for easy example), re-brands the names (point 1 above), and basically takes its sweet time with upgrades.

The Mac is obviously profitable...but I think the Mac is something Apple thought would simply die or be a niche item after 2003 and yet it kind of yo-yo's in the limelight of Apple. Apple dropped the "Computer" from its name a long time ago so it could promote to the world that it is more of a consumer electronics company that might dabble in computers (like Sony)...but Apple can't quite figure out if they want to kill the Mac and bet the company on non-computer systems (likely because iTunes, iPod, and iPad are glued to iTunes/a computer).

Personally I believe Apple should dump the Mac.

echoout
Jun 11, 2012, 09:22 PM
What Apps are you using that can benefit from more than 4 hyperthreaded cores? And please DON'T SAY PHOTOSHOP.

My livelihood revolves around After Effects and Cinema 4D which soak up about anything a computer has resource-wise. So disappointed about today and am now looking into the ProMax ONE.

Blue Sun
Jun 11, 2012, 09:23 PM
If that alleged Tim Cook email is legit, I'm more than prepared to eat a big'ole slice of humble pie (in fact, I hope I do).

Ryth
Jun 11, 2012, 09:24 PM
I can't believe for a second that the iMac won't be refreshed till 2013.

That's not considered a 'Pro' machine. The Mac Pro is.

So I think we'll get new iMacs in the Fall and then new MacPros in 2013 WWDC.

ps45
Jun 11, 2012, 09:25 PM
Because in 2008, the hype was 1080p with the 5D mkII. Now, it's stereoscopic 3D. We're starting to see 4K footage. After that, they will expect us to work with 4K stereoscopic 3D...

In 3D animation and VFX, it's common to have scenes that take hours of computing and rendering, per frame. Imagine when we will have to work in 4K!

As technology advances, more and more is expected, and many artists/technicians can't upgrade a 6000$ computer every year. We have to take our purchases decisions very seriously, and right now, those working with Apple-based workflows and pipelines are being left in the dust. A 1000€ pc is faster and much more expandible than a 2500€ Mac Pro. Which means, 3D animation studios using W7 will be able to afford three times more workstations, and cut their in-house render times by three, and so on...
We have to know whether to go back to Windows (which means buying new software and train to use it) or hold onto our existing workflow for a few more months. All the expectancy and hype is good for consumers, but for professionals, it's a dangerous game to play.

If you're still at 4K then you're already playing catch-up. 5K stereoscopic at 48 fps is not an unreasonable request now (expect this to be 6K later in 2012) and yes, the Mac Pro in a DIT function that needs ingest, backup and show instant rushes really shows its age.

iPadPublisher
Jun 11, 2012, 09:25 PM
This may be a small market, but it is a mature one and one which gave Apple the gravitas and the fundamentals that have gone on to make them the rare blend of luxury and mass-market in the consumer space.

Very well said, your whole post. Sums this up quite nicely.

pertusis1
Jun 11, 2012, 09:27 PM
Well, I had been looking at the six-core for a while. Price just dropped $700 on that unit, so this update suits me OK.

I don't care about thunderbolt in the MacPro. Not as much need for exterior storage. I'm a little disappointed in the lack of USB 3.

The question fo me is whether it is worth it to cough up the dough for a dual processor unit. Does anyone know where i could get some info on what programs actually quantifiably benefit from the dual processors?

nickarmadillo
Jun 11, 2012, 09:28 PM
You could have built a more powerful machine for less in 2009, much less 2012. Apple continues to drop the ball on their desktop lines and you know what? I really think that they could care less. iPads, iPhones, and Macbooks are where the money is. They're just waiting for the right moment to kill their desktop lines off.

Regardless, I've been a Mac user since the Lisa was released and this is quite honestly the worst Apple "upgrade" I've ever seen. I mean it would take very little effort at all to simply swap out new components and call it a day. The only possible explanation is that they're getting out of the Pro desktop business.

marcusj0015
Jun 11, 2012, 09:30 PM
You know what would instill faith? APPLE telling pro users that they will continue to support them. Its not like that information would benefit the competitors to any significant degree, and I'm positive it would put the minds of those who DEPEND on this tool for a living, at ease.

Getting this info exclusively from third parties borders on insulting.

What do you think this Speed bump is?! It's Apple updading the Mac Pro yes, but more importantly, it's Apple saying, No,we're not getting rid of you.

----------

Hey guys I'm still fairly new here.

Can I curse on this forum? (Serious question).

:(

Oh my ****ing god! :D

We'll find out won't we? :P

ixodes
Jun 11, 2012, 09:30 PM
Yes - that's exactly what I picture. A scene with folks like Cheney and Bush smoking cigars around a table
How clever. That Apple would be compared to politics.

Your humor is excellent :)

Cygnus311
Jun 11, 2012, 09:31 PM
He said "later next year." So does he mean "a little later, like next year" or LATER NEXT YEAR as in towards the end of 2013? :eek:

Either way this just plain sucks.:mad:

Ryth
Jun 11, 2012, 09:33 PM
He said "later next year." So does he mean "a little later, like next year" or LATER NEXT YEAR as in towards the end of 2013? :eek:

Either way this just plain sucks.:mad:

Remember he's probably only talking about the Mac Pro. Not the iMac.

Liquidstate
Jun 11, 2012, 09:33 PM
I still remember the day "when hell freezes over," (Job's famous statement that he'd never use Intel chips). No warning. Suddenly every Mac made before that day was a dead end machine.

I think the mild MP upgrade and the obvious NYTimes leak was Tim Cook's way of assuring pro users that a new high end machine is in the works.

It can't get much clearer than that. And it shows us Tim Cook has a bit more heart. He can't say anything officially. But he essentially "told" us, here's as much of an upgrade as we can make without a big investment in a hardware design that's soon going to be replaced by a new design. I was amazed they told us that much.

Apple generally doesn't do constant piecemeal upgrades, and for a good reason. In the audio world, the pro gear people rarely use Windows machines because of the stability and support issues with component compatibility and drivers. Who cares if a machine is a bit faster if it just crashed during a perfect take?

We take Mac stability for granted, but part of that is refraining from constant component changes.

Regarding the iMac, Apple tends to do product releases in family groups. In other words, at this WWWDC they did a lot of portable computing releases. The Mac Pro update was a quiet update, not part of the show. They didn't do desktops at WWWDC.

That would suggest that the next Mac Desktops (iMac, Mini and the next Mac Pro or whatever they might call it) will probably be launched at the same time.

I think whatever is coming, it will be more than a bland makeover. Tim Cook's leadership of the company is now at stake. The new desktops will be his first new product launches. He's got to innovate to uphold the brand.
And maybe that's part of the reason for these delays.

MNT
Jun 11, 2012, 09:34 PM
Some of you guys have managed to turn being uninformed into performance art. The decline in desktop sales started years ago, before Apple started focusing so strongly on notebooks and iOS devices. It's cool that they're not abandoning the line altogether and have made some options cheaper, but my guess would be that Apple just doesn't see that much opportunity for innovation there, at least not the way they can with portable devices. New GPUs and CPUs may excite the people who claim to be in the "professional market" while exhibiting diction and style suspiciously similar to that of a high school student; but if you're Apple and you've got the best industrial designers in the world, what do you work on? New notebooks and handheld devices, or desktop towers? It's a no-brainer.

Blue Sun
Jun 11, 2012, 09:38 PM
But seriously, how much extra work is it to include support for more up-to-date graphics cards?

ixodes
Jun 11, 2012, 09:41 PM
I'm a little disappointed in the lack of USB 3.
What is a bit puzzling is that Apple seems to be getting less consistent. To offer USB 3.0 on another model, yet fail to on this one, is further proof that they are not immune to their own brand of fragmentation. By not adding USB 3.0, which is so easily implemented, makes one wonder what kind of logic (if any) Apple is using to make decisions.

apolloa
Jun 11, 2012, 09:41 PM
Why the **** would selling a 12 core Mac Pro even enter the back recesses of your mind? What is your machine unable to do for you?

I have a an "early 2009" eight core Mac Pro and the thing still ****ing KILLS, three years in. Sure, it's got an OWC SSD and 24GB of RAM, but I have never thought that the machine was slow in any way.

Because he likes the latest machines or because having 16 cores will perform the work in less time and save money?

Why the hell have YOU got a MacBook Air AND an iPad 3? Same context of question..

iPadPublisher
Jun 11, 2012, 09:43 PM
I think the mild MP upgrade and the obvious NYTimes leak was Tim Cook's way of assuring pro users that a new high end machine is in the works.

It can't get much clearer than that.

How naive can you get? It can get a lot clearer: "a new Mac Pro is in the works" -- that would be more clear. Straight from the horse's mouth, not in code, or via mysterious press leaks, or any other ********. Apple saying that a new Mac Pro is on the way would in NO way damage their business. Competitors already have better machines -- and they can't run OSX, so knowing Apple has that in the pipeline is about like knowing a new iPad is in the works. We all know already. The only difference is, with the Mac Pro, we really DON'T know, because they haven't done anything with it for two years, and haven't done anything with it today. The "speed bump" today has already been available via third-party vendors for the Mac Pro. Now its available from Apple. Big deal. The technology is ALL still the same.

MSM Hobbes
Jun 11, 2012, 09:44 PM
ok, I'm late to this "party",,, get off work late, stop by store, drive 35 minutes home, unpack, spend 40 minutes watering ~25 trees, stealing water from my pond, which is rapidly decreasing in volume, slap some PB & J on some bread, get some juice, sit down, go to MacRumors to see what happened today, looking forward to seeing just how much more betterer the newest greatest fastest bestest iMac, needed to replace my ailing slow semi-crashing older iMac that this family of four tries to use,,, and then, scrolling through the MacRumors feeds,,,

:mad: :( :mad: :(

...fudge... ...fudge... ...fudge...

:mad:

C'MON COOK!!!

ezekielrage_99
Jun 11, 2012, 09:44 PM
Just for the record, the Radeon HD 5770 was actually never a professional graphics card, it was a sub-200 dollar effort from AMD.

The RRP of the 5770 was around $160. It was a decent budget card and nothing to be ashamed of, but even in 2009 when it was released, it was far from being professional grade in any possible sense of the word.


:D

Precisely my point, the 5770 isn't a pro card and was never a pro card or a performance card, it's lowend gaming card if that.

I would have been happy to see an nVidia Geforce 640 as stock instead of the 5770, it's poor form adding a 3 year old graphic card to a $3K+ workstation. Really how costly would is be to add a lower end current generation card to the mix?

apolloa
Jun 11, 2012, 09:45 PM
As I have said NUMEROUS times on the forums here...Apple has basically abandoned the Mac line. Today's news yet again backs up my feeling:...........Personally I believe Apple should dump the Mac.

Yeah, says the guy proudly stating he has 2 LENOVO laptops and a DELL PC in how signature.... I bet you never use your Mac Mini right?

BlueberryMac
Jun 11, 2012, 09:46 PM
...but the iMac? There's no reason for it to wait that long. I give it a couple of months, tops.

Yeah, my thinking was that they are waiting until Mountain Lion drops before they release the new iMacs.

That would put the new iMacs
(which average an update every 273 days, but haven't been updated for 406 days! (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iMac))
coming out in July at the earliest.

(although, with all Macs bought today on being given a free update to Mountain Lion anyway, maybe my thinking is more like "hoping"...)

macbook pro i5
Jun 11, 2012, 09:47 PM
it says the mac pro's were updated today?

Adolfo
Jun 11, 2012, 09:48 PM
They should rename it the Mac Classic. So disappointed.

reden
Jun 11, 2012, 09:53 PM
Later next year? What?

kps
Jun 11, 2012, 09:54 PM
They're not a company to release something unpolished, and especially not for the pro market.

I love your perspicacious satire of Final Cut Pro X.

Snowshiro
Jun 11, 2012, 09:55 PM
HP and Dell must think Christmas has come early.

relimw
Jun 11, 2012, 09:59 PM
"later next year...." WTF? FAIL

PeterQVenkman
Jun 11, 2012, 09:59 PM
Hey guys I'm still fairly new here.

Can I curse on this forum? (Serious question).

:(

Sure you can. Around here curse words are Windows, Android, blu-ray (watch out!), and Mac Pro.

HDMI used to be one until today.

wizard
Jun 11, 2012, 09:59 PM
I might be convinced that this is a good move if they are working on something really innovative. But as you point out no excuse for that video card.

No excuse for still shipping that video card in this "update.". None.

PeterQVenkman
Jun 11, 2012, 10:03 PM
Well, I had been looking at the six-core for a while. Price just dropped $700 on that unit, so this update suits me OK.

I don't care about thunderbolt in the MacPro. Not as much need for exterior storage. I'm a little disappointed in the lack of USB 3.

The question fo me is whether it is worth it to cough up the dough for a dual processor unit. Does anyone know where i could get some info on what programs actually quantifiably benefit from the dual processors?

What programs do you use? That will save time. I and a few others on these forums regularly use apps like Cinema 4d, which will eat twelve cores and ask for more in a heartbeat.

bobobenobi
Jun 11, 2012, 10:03 PM
Because he likes the latest machines or because having 16 cores will perform the work in less time and save money?

He said he was thinking of selling it, and my question is, "in exchange for what, and why."

Why the hell have YOU got a MacBook Air AND an iPad 3? Same context of question..

It's not the same question at all. You've used a laptop and an iPad before, right? If not, they're drastically different machines.

Eric5h5
Jun 11, 2012, 10:05 PM
it says the mac pro's were updated today?

Not really. "Slightly refreshed" would be a better way to put it.

--Eric

bobobenobi
Jun 11, 2012, 10:06 PM
New GPUs and CPUs may excite the people who claim to be in the "professional market" while exhibiting diction and style suspiciously similar to that of a high school student.

This is exactly what's happening here. A large number of so-called professionals.

Stella
Jun 11, 2012, 10:08 PM
"Our pro customers are really important to us...don't worry as we're working on something really great for later next year."

If this is the case then Apple's talk hasn't been translated into action.

Roberson
Jun 11, 2012, 10:12 PM
I will be too late. So lengthy to use it!

Rocketman
Jun 11, 2012, 10:14 PM
"Later next year" means 2H 2013. That is an eternity from now in computer years.