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Timzer
Jun 11, 2012, 06:57 PM
So you say don't buy an Android device because you won't get updates? So tell me, what good is it to buy an iphone or ipad if it's not gonna get the upgrade and features that come with the next OS? Or if it's not gonna have the hardware to run the new OS smoothly. I'll never tell another person stick with the iPhone because you'll get updates!! People in glass houses....



iPhoneApple
Jun 11, 2012, 06:58 PM
At least you get several updates on iOS as soon as it's released. Android = maybe an upgrade 8 months after release.

PlaceofDis
Jun 11, 2012, 06:58 PM
what exactly are you ranting about? who isn't getting updates? seems to me that the devices that are getting iOS 6 is a pretty fair amount and not bad at all.

rjohnstone
Jun 11, 2012, 07:04 PM
what exactly are you ranting about? who isn't getting updates? seems to me that the devices that are getting iOS 6 is a pretty fair amount and not bad at all.
Only a couple of devices are getting the full iOS 6 upgrade. The rest are getting pieces. All the good features are typically limited to current generation devices.

VSMacOne
Jun 11, 2012, 07:05 PM
Before you complain about this go ahead and look at last year's android phones who came out with an old version of android after 4.0 was released. Those suckers will never get updated and you complain about iOS fragmented? Come on...

VSMacOne
Jun 11, 2012, 07:07 PM
Only a couple of devices are getting the full iOS 6 upgrade. The rest are getting pieces. All the good features are typically limited to current generation devices.

Don't be ridiculous… Siri and the turn by turn navigation which is tied directly to Siri are the only two things as far as I know that are not going to iPad 2 and iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. But other than that all the other updates are being passed along.

Patriot24
Jun 11, 2012, 07:08 PM
Yes.


http://cdn2.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/4320479/apple-wwdc-2012-_0892_gallery_post.jpeg

- http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/11/3078535/ios-by-the-numbers-365-million-devices-sold-150-billion-imessages

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 07:13 PM
what exactly are you ranting about? who isn't getting updates? seems to me that the devices that are getting iOS 6 is a pretty fair amount and not bad at all.

Haha keep drinking the Apple Kool aid if you think an iPhone 3GS is more powerful than an iPad 1. You seem to think that's the case, since you think the list of supported devices is "fair".

Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.

Ever asked yourself why Apple does things like "no multitouch swipe to switch application on iPad 1" and then re-activates the feature after public outrage?

Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Apple artificially locks portions of their software for older models, just to sell newer models. Moreover, they completely lock out certain models, again just to sell models.

They are scum, little freaking rats that can't give people what they paid for - it would take them *one* little click to enable the update for all old devices, but instead it's up to hackers to make the change.

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software - despite *all* devices running the same ARM architecture and *all* devices being able to run *every* feature of iOS 6.

There isn't even ANYTHING in iOS 6 that the iPad 1 can't do, hardware-spec wise.

Again: Apple are scum.

Thousands of dollars invested in hardware and software in my iPad 1 and now they made the iPad 1 unsellable, and soon software will be requiring iOS6. Again: Apple are scum. If I didn't have a huge collection of iOS software, I would sell all my iOS devices and be on Android tomorrow.

And don't sidestep my arguments with some lame "oh wow another Android fanboy, you'll be back soon" or similar thing - I used to strongly dislike Android and utterly loved iOS, until I saw that my brother's Android tablet was far more free (as in freedoms), software-upgradable, customizable and capable than iOS. No limits on what type of software they allow - such as torrenting, video players, emulators, etc - all allowed. And anyone can install the latest Android OS version (even if the manufacturer hasn't officially released a version yet) by installing a vanilla Android build.

There's NEVER any risk of devices becoming ARTIFICIALLY obsolete when you run Android. I wish I could take back all my investment in iOS and ditch this evil platform.

Just have a look at all the features Apple artificially locks you out of, and then try telling me again that they're the good guys. No way.


Don't be ridiculous… Siri and the turn by turn navigation which is tied directly to Siri are the only two things as far as I know that are not going to iPad 2 and iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. But other than that all the other updates are being passed along.

"As far as you know" is not good enough - Go to http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/ and scroll down to the bottom:

1. Some features may not be available in all countries or all areas. Flyover and turn-by-turn navigation will be available only on iPhone 4S and iPad 2 or later. Cellular data charges may apply.
2. Siri will be available only on iPhone 4S and iPad (3rd generation) and requires Internet access. Siri may not be available in all languages or all areas, and features may vary by area. Cellular data charges may apply.
3. Shared Photo Streams requires iOS 6 on iPhone 4 or later or iPad 2 or later, or a Mac computer with OS X Mountain Lion. An up-to-date browser is required for accessing shared photo streams on the web.
4. FaceTime over a cellular network requires iPhone 4 or later, or iPad 2 or later with cellular data capability. Carrier data charges may apply. FaceTime is not available in all countries.
5. VIP list and VIP and Flagged smart mailboxes will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later.
6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later.


These are all artificial locks. Every device is capable of running all these features, as proven by hacking the firmware to enable the features even on older devices that Apple would prefer you upgrading away from.

rjohnstone
Jun 11, 2012, 07:15 PM
Don't be ridiculous… Siri and the turn by turn navigation which is tied directly to Siri are the only two things as far as I know that are not going to iPad 2 and iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4. But other than that all the other updates are being passed along.
Like I said... only the good features go to the current generation devices.
No 3D maps on the iPad2, 3GS and iPhone 4 either. ;)
Still haven't finished digging through the updates to see what each device actually gets.
Judging by the file size difference between the 3GS and 4, (762MB 3GS, 876MB iPhone 4) there's a lot missing for the 3GS.
What is interesting is the file for the iPhone 4 and the 4S are the same size, yet the 4S does get more functionality out of the update.
iPad 2 (WiFi Only) is 770MB where as the new iPad (WiFi only) is 1.0GB.
I suspect there's a good portion of that difference tied up in graphics given the screen resolution differences.

Reddmanz
Jun 11, 2012, 07:20 PM
Um Aitte, if you really do hate Apple so much ( and it really seems you do) why are you here moaning about it? Just sell your Apple stuff and go buy whatever you feel you need...

sixteen12
Jun 11, 2012, 07:20 PM
Only a couple of devices are getting the full iOS 6 upgrade. The rest are getting pieces. All the good features are typically limited to current generation devices.

Yes like Android phones.

Want S-Voice...need a GS3. GS2 didn't get it in an update.
It also allows apple to keep older phones up to date by not ramming features down the throat of the phone if the phone can't properly use. In the end you get a phone that updates features and has a user base that has 80% of its users on its most recent release vs 7% on the latest major iteration (4.0.x).

BiscottiGelato
Jun 11, 2012, 07:22 PM
Haha keep drinking the Apple Kool aid if you think an iPhone 3GS is more powerful than an iPad 1. You seem to think that's the case, since you think the list of supported devices is "fair".

Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.

Ever asked yourself why Apple does things like "no multitouch swipe to switch application on iPad 1" and then re-activates the feature based on outrage?

Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Apple artificially locks portions of their software for older models, just to sell newer models. Moreover, they completely lock out certain models, again just to sell models.

They are scum, little freaking rats that can't give people what they paid for - it would take them *one* little click to enable the update for all old devices, but instead it's up to hackers to make the change.

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software - despite *all* devices running the same ARM architecture and *all* devices being able to run *every* feature of iOS 6.

There isn't even ANYTHING in iOS 6 that the iPad 1 can't do, hardware-spec wise.

Again: Apple are scum.

Thousands of dollars invested in hardware and software in my iPad 1 and now they made the iPad 1 unsellable, and soon software will be requiring iOS6. Again: Apple are scum. If I didn't have a huge collection of iOS software, I would sell all my iOS devices and be on Android tomorrow.

And don't sidestep my arguments with some lame "oh wow another Android fanboy, you'll be back soon" or similar thing - I used to strongly dislike Android and utterly loved iOS, until I saw that my brother's Android tablet was far more free (as in freedoms), software-upgradable, customizable and capable than iOS. No limits on what type of software they allow - such as torrenting, video players, emulators, etc - all allowed. And anyone can install the latest Android OS version (even if the manufacturer hasn't officially released a version yet) by installing a vanilla Android build.

There's NEVER any risk of devices becoming ARTIFICIALLY obsolete when you run Android. I wish I could take back all my investment in iOS and ditch this evil platform.

Just have a look at all the features Apple artificially locks you out of, and then try telling me again that they're the good guys. No way.




"As far as you know" is not good enough - Go to http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/ and scroll down to the bottom:

Still better than Android. It took over 6 monthes, and only in limited markets, to have ICS on the previously best selling Android flagship - Galaxy S2. Don't even talk about the other junk... in a relative sense, it's next to no support and 0 upgrade options.

And you are complaining the iOS6 is artificially locked out of the original iPhone and original iPad? I think nobody cares about your trolling comments.

Not to mention, it's not the continual upgrade that makes iOS. It's the continual support and fixes. Even if you can't get to the latest OS and all the features, at least your phone will receive support for a couple years. Can't say a lot for Android phones.

Upgrade and support is no brainer wins for iOS. What iOS lose big time IMO is screen size. And also the dilema of alienating users confortable with the existing UI, and making sure that the UI is fresh for users that want some changes.

Android have nothing to lose. They can reinvent the whole thing if they want to. They can experiemnt, do it wrong, do it over again. They just don't have as big an existing user base that they need to keep happy.

chrf097
Jun 11, 2012, 07:22 PM
So you say don't buy an Android device because you won't get updates? So tell me, what good is it to buy an iphone or ipad if it's not gonna get the upgrade and features that come with the next OS? Or if it's not gonna have the hardware to run the new OS smoothly. I'll never tell another person stick with the iPhone because you'll get updates!! People in glass houses....

Fragmentation isn't just about getting updates.

Android is also very fragmented because you have a bajillion devices, each completely different. From 2.5 inch screens to 5.3 inch screens, from 300MHz processors to 1.5GHz processors. From 230x320 resolution to 1080x720 resolution, and they're all on the market at the same time. not to mention all the bajillion of tablets that all have drastic differences from each other, not to mention all the drastic UI differences between devices.

That's personally why I love Windows Phone and Microsoft's approach. You have all these different devices, but unlike Android, they all have the same layout. Same buttons, same resolution, same OS (no crappy ugly skins) all around. The difference is just the components. You get your choice but the same seamless experience on every device.

blah blah blah whiny anti-apple post just go read the actual post to see it

Companies do this ALL the time. Android 4.0 could and has been proven to EASILY run on the Samsung Galaxy S, Droid 2 & 3, Xperia Play, and LOADS of devices by manufacturers. S Voice could easily run on all the other Galaxy smartphones. MOTOACTV could easily work on any motorola phone. Companies constantly force upgrades by locking features to newer hardware. LG, Microsoft, Samsung, Sony, Motorola, Apple, THEY ALL DO IT.

The only reason Apple is targeted for this practice is because it's only got one product line. (and people love to attack Apple for things that every single company does)

aristobrat
Jun 11, 2012, 07:22 PM
These are all artificial locks. Every device is capable of running all these features, as proven by hacking the firmware to enable the feature even on older devices that Apple would prefer you upgrading away from.
And how is that any different from Samsung, HTC, or Moto saying "we're not going to spend the time to make any part of the next Android update available for your phone that's less than two-years old."?

It's not.

Every manufacturer does crap like that to push people to buy the newer model. It's how the manufacturing business works.

But seriously, if you're going to compare Apple's holding of certain new features from older models to the industry standard of every other phone manufacturer (which is to not make ANY part of of newer updates available to most older products, even though they're fully capable of running it), you're barking up the wrong tree man.

I've been making custom ROMs for smartphones (err, "PocketPC Phones" back then) since 2002 to get around this "no update" crap Samsung, HTC and Moto have been doing (or better yet, when the phone manufacture does the update, but the freaking carrier won't allow it out because THEY want you to upgrade to a new handset and tie yourself into another two year contract).

Is Apple's OS update policy perfect? No. Is there another phone manufacturer that comes even close to handing updates even close to (or better) than how Apple does? I don't think so.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 07:27 PM
Um Aitte, if you really do hate Apple so much ( and it really seems you do) why are you here moaning about it? Just sell your Apple stuff and go buy whatever you feel you need...

I just said I wished I could. I've silently tolerated devices being killed off in the past, like the iPhone 3G because it really was a much slower device and at least kind of understandable. But when they artificially kill off the mere 2 year old, very powerful iPad 1, I just saw them for who they really are.

I paid $980 for my iPad 1 as I was one of the very very early adopters. I've also spent about $1000 in iOS software.

There are now 3 options:
1. Try to sell the iPad 1 for $1 to someone dumb enough to want a device that Apple doesn't allow to be upgraded, then spend that $1 towards the iPad 4. This is what Apple wants.
2. Cut all my losses (the $980 for the iPad and the $1000 in iOS software) and leave for Android, where this kind of pure rat-behavior will never happen (since you can always manually upgrade devices and will NEVER be left in the dust - note that I am NOT talking about official upgrades here, I mean installing the latest vanilla Android). Excellent choice, except that it means a huge loss in software costs and time, sigh.
3. Keep using the iPad 1 with iOS 5 until more and more software requires iOS 6, thereby feeding into the urge to get a newer device that can run the newer OS - exactly the reason why Apple artificially limits the OS in this way in the first place.


Another option is to always sell your iOS devices about 3 months before the new one is released, to unsuspecting buyers, while the value is still high, and then always stay on the bleeding edge of latest hardware releases, to never be shafted on updates by Apple. But that's a huge cost to pay, with the constant hardware upgrades.

In short: Apple sure makes it hard to like them.

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 07:28 PM
Haha keep drinking the Apple Kool aid if you think an iPhone 3GS is more powerful than an iPad 1. You seem to think that's the case, since you think the list of supported devices is "fair".

The GPU in the 3Gs is the same in the iPad, but the 3Gs is much more powerful when it comes to graphical abilities. Even the RAM in the 3Gs gives it some edge over the iPad. On a default fresh restore of both devices running the same iOS version, the 3Gs has more unused RAM then the iPad. The only thing the iPad 1G beats the 3Gs at is CPU performance, but even then it's very close to the speed of the 3Gs running iOS 5.


Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

Did you know my Ford Model T can pull a 4 ton trailer on level ground with no help from a stand still start?


All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.


Does it now? How are you going to get the needed drivers for the older hardware? How are you even going to get it onto there? It take a lot more than "a small hack of the firmware" to install a new iOS version onto an unsupported older device.


Ever asked yourself why Apple does things like "no multitouch swipe to switch application on iPad 1" and then re-activates the feature based on outrage?

I have asked myself that and when using the multitasking gestures on the iPad 1G there are sometimes graphical glitches and non-fluidic animations. This is not only on my iPad 1G, but others who have them turned on.


Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Last I checked, this feature is going to be on the 3Gs.


Apple artificially locks portions of their software for older models, just to sell newer models. Moreover, they completely lock out certain models, again just to sell models.

They are scum, little freaking rats that can't give people what they paid for - it would take them *one* little click to enable the update for all old devices, but instead it's up to hackers to make the change.

They are a company. Companies are out to make money, nothing else.



So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software - despite *all* devices running the same ARM architecture and *all* devices being able to run *every* feature of iOS 6.


iPad 1G early adopters got a device with iOS 3.2 on it. Following Apple's n+2 upgrade scheme, iOS 6 is inline to drop it.


There isn't even ANYTHING in iOS 6 that the iPad 1 can't do, hardware-spec wise.

FaceTime. Oh wait... http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1091418 How about taking pictures?


Again: Apple are scum.


Apple is a company. All they want is your money.

rjohnstone
Jun 11, 2012, 07:30 PM
Yes like Android phones.

Want S-Voice...need a GS3. GS2 didn't get it in an update.
It also allows apple to keep older phones up to date by not ramming features down the throat of the phone if the phone can't properly use. In the end you get a phone that updates features and has a user base that has 80% of its users on its most recent release vs 7% on the latest major iteration (4.0.x).
Bad example.

You don't "need" a GS3 to run S-Voice.
The only thing you "need" is Android 4.x.
Simply copy the S-Voice app to your GS2 and install it.
S-Voice is nothing more than Vlingo with a visual treatment.
It runs just fine on any GS2. In fact it runs great on some HTC and LG devices as well.

Just like you don't "need" an iPhone 4S to run Siri.
It runs the same on an iPhone 4. Never tried it on a 3GS.

VSMacOne
Jun 11, 2012, 07:32 PM
@aitte I'll buy you iPad for $1. Heck I'll even give you $100 ;)

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 07:42 PM
The GPU in the 3Gs is the same in the iPad, but the 3Gs is much more powerful when it comes to graphical abilities. Even the RAM in the 3Gs gives it some edge over the iPad. On a default fresh restore of both devices running the same iOS version, the 3Gs has more unused RAM then the iPad. The only thing the iPad 1G beats the 3Gs at is CPU performance, but even then it's very close to the speed of the 3Gs running iOS 5.


The lockout has nothing to do with GPU. There's nothing apart from the Maps app that even uses the GPU in iOS6's new features. It's yet another artificial lockout, and one that was done way too soon. When iPad 1 reached 4-5 years, I'd accept it, but two years!? For a "revolutionary post-PC device"? More like a revolutionary door-stopper.




Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Last I checked, this feature is going to be on the 3Gs.

You are wrong. Read the bottom of the page at http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/.


Apple is a company. All they want is your money.

They got my money for a "desktop replacement" tablet a mere two years ago. It is now worth as much as a doorstopper. The second hand value is about $250 for a 64gb wifi model where I live, and that was before the announcement that it will no longer get iOS updates. Expect that to drop further.

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 07:50 PM
The lockout has nothing to do with GPU. There's nothing apart from the Maps app that even uses the GPU in iOS6's new features. It's yet another artificial lockout, and one that was done way too soon. When iPad 1 reached 4-5 years, I'd accept it, but two years!? For a "revolutionary post-PC device"? More like a revolutionary door-stopper.

The lockout has to do with the n+2 rule in the ELUA, not the graphical abilities. Thus far, the 3Gs is the only exception to this rule. Likely because it is still being sold as new and it is being targeted to emerging markets. And the less initial RAM used by the system amount could help it.


http://www.whited00r.com/iphone-2g/ <- Here you go, iOS 5 for your old devices.


whited00r is just an illegally redistributed themed iOS 3.1.3 firmware. It is not iOS 4, nor 5, nor 6. It is still using iOS 3.1.3 API's and cannot run iOS 4+ only applications.


You are wrong. Read the bottom of the page at http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/.


Thankfully my 3Gs is an old bootrom device that will have an untethered jailbreak for every version of iOS 6. That feature is likely controlled by a boolean value in the model identifier property list in SpringBoard.app. Should be easy to add it and set it to true.


They got my money for a "desktop replacement" tablet a mere two years ago. It is now worth as much as a doorstopper.

Desktop replacement? Unless you are an older grandmother type, an iPad is by no means a desktop replacement. While it may come close to it, it still has its very hard set limits.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 07:54 PM
I'll just say one more thing:

http://1.androidauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Tablet-Market-Share-Trends.png

I hope Android takes over and matures as a platform to attract even more developers. I agree that the screen resolution, GPU and CPU power differences are a major hurdle for it. Google really should have set some strict standards that all licensed devices must follow, such as certain evenly divisible resolutions for smartphones, and others for tablets, all higher ones being twice the lower one, to ensure that apps can scale gracefully. I.e. smartphones: 640x480, 1280x960. Tablets: 1280x960, 2560x1920. They should also have demanded certain CPU and GPU standards at each resolution, measured using some official benchmarking program, to ensure that all devices meet a certain standard. Had those steps been taken, Android would have been an even better platform.

For now I gotta think about what to do. If I had $0 invested in actual software for the iOS platform, I would leave now, but since I have over $1000 in software, in addition to the $950 for the iPad 1, it's not as easy to cut my losses and leave.

Chances are I'll stay with the iPad 1 on iOS 5 and become more and more pissed off when apps start requiring iOS 6, then finally upgrade a year from now. Apple wins as usual.

aristobrat
Jun 11, 2012, 07:55 PM
Desktop replacement? Unless you are an older grandmother type, an iPad is by no means a desktop replacement. While it may come close to it, it still has its very hard set limits.
Yeah, that's not the first time he's called the iPad a desktop replacement. Below is a snip from his OP in this thread.

To me, it sounds like he's got buyers remorse from having jumped in feet first with a new technology that didn't pan out the way he thought it was (i.e. a desktop replacement).

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 07:58 PM
I'm guessing you didn't look at the 2012 Q1 bars of that graph of yours did you? Android dropped to 2011 Q3 values and the iPad rose to 2011 Q2 values.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 07:59 PM
[reply on next page of thread.]

aristobrat
Jun 11, 2012, 08:02 PM
Chances are I'll stay with the iPad 1 on iOS 5 and become more and more pissed off when apps start requiring iOS 6, then finally upgrade a year from now. Apple wins as usual.
Even if you didn't have $1000 in software invested in iOS, what would you get by switching to Android?

Your iPad 1 got two full OS upgrades after you purchased it. (iOS 3 -> iOS 4 -> iOS 5).

The Moto Xoom got it's first full OS upgrade, ... three months after the upgrade was released. What do you think the chances are that it's going to get a second full OS upgrade?

Seriously, which Android manufacturer had a track record of handling upgrades like Apple does?

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 08:02 PM
Yeah, that's not the first time he's called the iPad a desktop replacement. Below is a snip from his OP in this thread.

To me, it sounds like he's got buyers remorse from having jumped in feet first with a new technology that didn't pan out the way he thought it was (i.e. a desktop replacement).

No buyers remorse here. I used the term to refer to Apple calling it a "post-PC device", and how they eventually want us all to use tablets in the future.

I'm using mine for some quick work on the go, while I do all heavy work on my Mac Pro.

It's just a completely evil move to lock out the iPad 1 from an OS it would be fully capable of running, all in the name of capitalism.

Suddenly, it won't be able to run the latest apps that will require iOS 6, and its 2nd hand resale value just went through the floor.

A tablet is different from a smartphone. With a smartphone, not getting updates is sad but okay. With a tablet, you expect a far longer life, as it is a far more capable device. Apple just showed their true colors clearer than ever.

I'm guessing you didn't look at the 2012 Q1 bars of that graph of yours did you? Android dropped to 2011 Q3 values and the iPad rose to 2011 Q2 values.

No, I very clearly saw the Q1 drop. I said I hope Android becomes the majority market leader. Totally unrelated statement.

It would be a good thing to displace some of the Apple hubris, even though I prefer iOS as a platform.


Even if you didn't have $1000 in software invested in iOS, what would you get by switching to Android?

Your iPad 1 got two full OS upgrades after you purchased it. (iOS 3 -> iOS 4 -> iOS 5).

The Moto Xoom got it's first full OS upgrade, ... three months after the upgrade was released. What do you think the chances are that it's going to get a second full OS upgrade?

Seriously, which Android manufacturer had a track record of handling upgrades like Apple does?

Hehe you say "Your iPad 1 got two full OS upgrades after you purchased it. (iOS 3 -> iOS 4 -> iOS 5)." as if it was a good thing. This is not a smartphone; it's a far more capable device, and now it's been executed by Apple a mere 2 years after release. It is quite similar to launching a new MacBook and saying "no more OS X for you in two years". A phone is one thing - you primarily use that as a phone. A tablet is for far more things, and a longer life is to be expected.

As for Android - I could take any Android device and install custom firmware that gets it to the latest version. The hardware will never be "killswitched" - no "programmed obsolescence" a la Apple. You can always manually upgrade an Android device and will only have to upgrade hardware when it FEELS too slow for you.

aristobrat
Jun 11, 2012, 08:10 PM
With a tablet, you expect a far longer life, as it is a far more capable device. Apple just showed their true colors clearer than ever.
The life (or usefulness) of your iPad 1 doesn't end this the fall when iOS 6 comes out. It will be just as useful two years from now as it is today.

You're the first person I've met that expected the Apple tablet to be treated any differently than the tablets/PDAs before it.

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 08:13 PM
The life (or usefulness) of your iPad 1 doesn't end this the fall when iOS 6 comes out. It will be just as useful two years from now as it is today.

Quite true. My iPod Touch 1G is still having a great life as a media player and a PDA-ish device.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 08:14 PM
The life (or usefulness) of your iPad 1 doesn't end this the fall when iOS 6 comes out. It will be just as useful two years from now as it is today.

How will it be just as useful when I can no longer upgrade my apps for it or install new apps, once a lot of them require iOS 6? I'll have to do the "back up your old .ipa software installers and never lose them or you cannot re-install this app" dance.

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 08:15 PM
How will it be just as useful when I can no longer upgrade my apps for it or install new apps, once a lot of them require iOS 6? I'll have to do the "back up your old .ipa software installers and never lose them or you cannot re-install this app" dance.

There are still a few apps being updated for iOS 3.1.3. I just updated about three of them on my iPod Touch.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 08:25 PM
There are still a few apps being updated for iOS 3.1.3. I just updated about three of them on my iPod Touch.

Yeah luckily it takes a while for all but the most bleeding-edge developers to enforce a new iOS version. It's still an absolute evil move to kill a tablet this soon though. One that they could easily still support in their iOS builds.

But there's another problem with being outdated - what about security updates when iOS exploits are discovered? Has Apple ever released iOS security updates for older iOS lines?

For example: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/apple-patches-serious-security-holes-in-ios-devices/11983

iOS 5.1.1 fixed issues that allow a malicious webpage to take complete control over the iOS device. Presumably that bug exists in older iOS versions too, but as far as I can see, Apple never updates older iOS devices even for vital security fixes. :eek:

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 08:28 PM
But what about security updates when iOS exploits are discovered? Has Apple ever released iOS security updates for older iOS lines?


Apple did release iOS 1.1.5 for the iPod Touch 1G only. When the jailbreakme 2 and 3 PDF exploits were released, the jailbreak community released patches for older iOS versions to prevent the exploit from being used maliciously.

aristobrat
Jun 11, 2012, 08:32 PM
Yeah luckily it takes a while for all but the most bleeding-edge developers to enforce a new iOS version.
Developers develop for where there's a market.

IMO, the inexpensiveness of smartphones makes it affordable for most to flip their phones every two years. Even with that high flip rate, developers are still supporting an iOS from 2009.

I don't see people flipping their iPads nearly as quickly as they flip smartphones. Which to me means that developers are going to see even larger markets of devices running older OSs.

Based on the way developers have continued to treat older OSs on iPhones, I don't see any reason to go all hyperbolic about iPad 1s being executed after two years.

Will your iPad 1 receive any more iOS updates? No.
Does that mean it'll cease to function this fall when iOS 6 comes out? No.
Does that mean that your apps will cease to function this fall when iOS 6 comes out? No.
Does that mean that after iOS 6 comes out, developers will stop developing for iOS 5. No.

Are most (if not all) of your existing apps going to see upgrades that will continue to run on your iPad 1 after iOS 6 comes out? Yes

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 08:39 PM
Apple did release iOS 1.1.5 for the iPod Touch 1G only. When the jailbreakme 2 and 3 PDF exploits were released, the jailbreak community released patches for older iOS versions to prevent the exploit from being used maliciously.

:-/ Ugh, that's pathetic. Apple, with its mere >100 billion dollars, can't even do THAT minor favor of applying the patches to the older codebase and recompiling.

I'm gonna have to process this absolute rat move for a while (come on, a powerful TABLET killed after a mere two years?!), and will most likely:

* Entirely stop buying iOS software
* Continue using the device for a year or two
* Move on to Android when its tablets have matured so that I can be on a platform where hardware won't be killswitched (inb4 "two years in the future Android will be dead")

----------

Developers develop for where there's a market.

IMO, the inexpensiveness of smartphones makes it affordable for most to flip their phones every two years. Even with that high flip rate, developers are still supporting an iOS from 2009.

I don't see people flipping their iPads nearly as quickly as they flip smartphones. Which to me means that developers are going to see even larger markets of devices running older OSs.

Based on the way developers have continued to treat older OSs on iPhones, I don't see any reason to go all hyperbolic about iPad 1s being executed after two years.

Will your iPad 1 receive any more iOS updates? No.
Does that mean it'll cease to function this fall when iOS 6 comes out? No.
Does that mean that your apps will cease to function this fall when iOS 6 comes out? No.
Does that mean that after iOS 6 comes out, developers will stop developing for iOS 5. No.

Are most (if not all) of your existing apps going to see upgrades that will continue to run on your iPad 1 after iOS 6 comes out? Yes

You admit the core of my argument:

"IMO, the inexpensiveness of smartphones makes it affordable for most to flip their phones every two years."

"I don't see people flipping their iPads nearly as quickly as they flip smartphones."

That is what I've been saying - it's EVIL for Apple to drop a powerful tablet - a major device - this soon for NO technical reason whatsoever. They're also utterly gutting the 2nd hand value of them as a result.

I dread the day when some of my vital software starts using iOS 6-only features, or when some big new exploit is discovered and I don't get security updates.

I absolutely hate that I'll have to carefully read all app update messages to look out for iOS 6-only versions, and back up my .ipa's for older versions in that case.

The worst part of it all is knowing that they COULD compile iOS 6 for the iPad 1 with the flick of a switch if they really wanted to, but they don't. They have this "n+2" money-grubbing scheme in motion (with the 3GS being exempt from this because it's sold in emerging markets). Quite fine for phones, which are easy to flip and don't matter much. Horribly evil for tablets.

Suddenly the "it just works" convenience of Apple is more like a walled dungeon.

aristobrat
Jun 11, 2012, 08:48 PM
That is what I've been saying - it's EVIL for Apple to drop a powerful tablet - a major device - this soon for NO technical reason whatsoever.
Based on every company I've seen produce a tablet or PDA since the early 2000's having dropped upgrades before a year (if they offered upgrades at all), I have no idea why you would think Apple would handle it any other way. :confused:

Obviously you did, and you're upset about it. That's why I made my buyers remorse comment. You've got $2000 invested in a platform that's obviously not being treated how you thought it would be.


The worst part of it all is knowing that they COULD compile iOS 6 for the iPad 1 with the flick of a switch if they really wanted to, but they don't. They have this "n+2" money-grubbing scheme in motion (with the 3GS being exempt from this because it's sold in emerging markets). Quite fine for phones, which are easy to flip and don't matter much. Horribly evil for tablets.
Honestly, any point you bring up, you quickly negate by not acknowledging basics, such that "n+2" for smartphones is revolutionary in the market (i.e. were Apple truly money grubbing, they'd do the typical "n+0" or "n+1" scheme like virtually every other smartphone manufacturer has done since smartphones came out in the early 2000s).

That and your flick of a switch is partially BS, too. I tried running the hacked iOS version that first supported video recording on the prior generation hardware (that Apple didn't enable the feature for). It looked like crap. The hardware wasn't capable of taking 30fps video like the hardware in the new iPhone.

Every year when the new iOS comes out, there's the uproar that not all features work on the prior version, and then people find a way to install those features. And almost without fail, those features not enabled on the old hardware run like crap when hacked to install on it.

So don't say "it's just a flip of a switch" and everything in the new iOS is going to run perfect on the last generation of hardware, because that's never been the case (from being an iPhone owner since the first generation and having tried it), to having followed the forum posts on here from countless others having done the same.

For crap's sake, the iPad 1 can't even keep the text in several browser tabs in memory without having to refresh it. Go ahead and make the point that iOS 6 will 100% run as a normal user would expect it to on that iPad.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 08:56 PM
Based on every company I've seen produce a tablet or PDA since the early 2000's having dropped upgrades before a year (if they offered upgrades at all), I have no idea why you would think Apple would handle it any other way. :confused:

Obviously you did, and you're upset about it. That's why I made my buyers remorse comment. You've got $2000 invested in a platform that's obviously not being treated how you thought it would be.

Well, I've used PocketPC PDA's since the early 2000s and could always install custom firmware on them to get them to the latest Windows Mobile versions even when the vendor dropped support. Your device can live on with the latest versions forever.

On Android you can easily install the latest versions of vanilla Android, and live on the latest versions forever.

On iOS, Apple decides to kill your device after two years on a money-grubbing whim, locking you out from security updates (INSANELY important), features (not very important), and app updates once they require the latest iOS version (quite important).

I do see a difference in the pattern here. All other devices die when YOU feel like your hardware is too slow and want to upgrade. Apple devices die when the almighty Apple decides that they want you to open your wallet again.

I expected such a powerful device to keep getting iOS updates until the hardware could literally no longer support it. Apple decided otherwise, and a lot of iPad 1 owners are now completely shocked. We're seeing more and more of my kind of posts as the news spreads.

For crap's sake, the iPad 1 can't even keep the text in several browser tabs in memory without having to refresh it. Go ahead and make the point that iOS 6 will 100% run as a normal user would expect it to on that iPad.

I've been an Assembly language programmer and electronics engineer for 20 years and know enough about hardware down to the electronics level to build my own computer from scratch - those are my qualifications when I say that there's nothing in the latest iOS version that the old iPad 1 hardware can't run. The limitations of the iPad 1 are RAM and GPU speed. Its GPU speed only matters for games - because the GPU in the iPad 1 is PLENTY fast enough for ALL other uses. That leaves the RAM - which WAS underdimensioned, but none of the iOS features require particularly much RAM. As for Safari, it employs background unloading of tabs to preserve RAM, true. They could keep that behavior for iPad 1s. There's nothing in iOS 6 that an iPad 1 can't run perfectly. Including Siri (which by the way used to be a standalone app that ran on all iOS devices before Apple bought it).

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 09:00 PM
On Android you can easily install the latest versions of vanilla Android, and live on the latest versions forever.

Have you seen Android 4 on the T-Mobile G1? It makes the iPhone 3G running iOS 4.0.0 look like a speed machine. And the G1 is running a highly slimmed down version at that. Don't go around saying it's easy to do. Because most of the Android devices are dropped by their manufactures because they just don't have enough ram or storage for the newer versions. Even third party hackers and modders have trouble getting the ROM to fit at all. Sometimes they have to remove some features just to get the bare kernel running with a very bland, blank UI.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 09:06 PM
Have you seen Android 4 on the T-Mobile G1? It makes the iPhone 3G running iOS 4.0.0 look like a speed machine. And the G1 is running a highly slimmed down version at that. Don't go around saying it's easy to do. Because most of the Android devices are dropped by their manufactures because they just don't have enough ram or storage for the newer versions. Even third party hackers and modders have trouble getting the ROM to fit at all. Sometimes they have to remove some features just to get the bare kernel running with a very bland, blank UI.

That's true for the very earliest devices, as well as very low-powered budget devices today. However, if you were to buy an iPad-equivalent, powerful tablet today, you would never have issues running the latest versions of Android.

Note also that you're saying what I was saying -> Android devices need upgrades when the HARDWARE no longer has enough power, NOT on the whim of Apple.

aristobrat
Jun 11, 2012, 09:09 PM
I've been an Assembly language programmer and electronics engineer for 20 years and know enough about hardware down to the electronics level to build my own computer from scratch - those are my qualifications when I say that there's nothing in the latest iOS version that the old iPad 1 hardware can't run. The limitations of the iPad 1 are RAM and GPU speed.
You also said that the iPhone 1 can run iOS 6.

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 09:10 PM
Note also that you're saying what I was saying -> Android devices need upgrades when the HARDWARE no longer has enough power, NOT on the whim of Apple.

Then by the complaints set forth by many other people talking about their iPad 1G's being slow, the iPad 1G's hardware is no longer up to the task of iOS 6. This is likely due to the RAM. Apple is forced by their own ELUA to continue supporting the 3Gs. Just like they were with the iPhone 3G and iOS 4. Even though it ran very poorly.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 09:13 PM
You also said that the iPhone 1 can run iOS 6.

It could. It's not THAT much weaker than the newer models, even the 3GS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Model_comparison

Sure, SOME features would be too much, like graphics-intensive 3D maps, but most things would run.

aristobrat
Jun 11, 2012, 09:21 PM
However, if you were to buy an iPad-equivalent, powerful tablet today, you would never have issues running the latest versions of Android.
There's no track record for you to factually state that.

And it's pointless for the 99% of owners of such products that would have zero ability to fathom how to hack a customized ROM, much less pull it off successfully.

For them, the device "is killed" when the manufacturer stops offering official upgrades.

Which for Android tablets, is TBD. However, based on the history of Android phone makers, ... it doesn't look promising.

----------

It could. It's not THAT much weaker than the newer models, even the 3GS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Model_comparison

Sure, SOME features would be too much, like graphics-intensive 3D maps, but most things would run.
The camera in the iPhone 3 couldn't shoot fast enough for the video app from the iPhone 4. How well do you think it'll run on the iPhone 1?

There's no GPS in the iPhone 1. How much functionality was just lost with that? HDR shooting? Think the processor is fast enough for photo editing?

You make many grandiose statements between points that actually stand. I think you're losing most folks with the grandiose statements, though.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 09:28 PM
There's no track record for you to factually state that.

And it's pointless for the 99% of owners of such products that would have zero ability to fathom how to hack a customized ROM, much less pull it off successfully.

For them, the device "is killed" when the manufacturer stops offering official upgrades.

Which for Android tablets, is TBD. However, based on the history of Android phone makers, ... it doesn't look promising.

The track record is simple: Powerful CPU + Powerful GPU + incremental Android OS changes = top of the line Android hardware today will run the latest Android OS for a VERY long time to come.

There's another factor for Android tablets and why those manufacturers stop releasing official updates - which is that each vendor has loads and loads of different models with differing hardware. Luckily users can install custom firmware to solve that problem.

Apple has one line, which is very homogenous and where the majority of code would run on the older devices without any modifications at all.


The camera in the iPhone 3 couldn't shoot fast enough for the video app from the iPhone 4. How well do you think it'll run on the iPhone 1?

There's no GPS in the iPhone 1. How much functionality was just lost with that? HDR shooting? Think the processor is fast enough for photo editing?

You make many grandiose statements between points that actually stand. I think you're losing most folks with the grandiose statements, though.

There are always a small subset of features that won't work on earlier devices; also, don't confuse what I'm saying here - I'm not saying Apple SHOULD support the iPhone 1 - I am saying they COULD. However, I *AM* saying they SHOULD still support the iPad 1, an EXTREMELY capable device that would easily chew through every single feature in iOS 6.

Anyway, the issues boil down to:
1. Apple killswitching devices years before the HARDWARE would have felt too slow. This is unlike all other platforms, where the user can always stay up to date in some way.
2. Apple having a very small, homogenous product line and >100 billion dollars in the bank, yet can't even be bothered to release SECURITY updates for older devices, when those devices use the same architecture and could easily have the security patches applied.
3. Apple killing a tablet - a major, powerful device - just two years after launch, and for no reason other than wanting to force people to buy new hardware.
4. Tablets are powerful and meant to last many years; whereas phones are something you replace often.
5. The iPad 1 is not very different from the iPad 2/3, and could easily run everything in iOS 6.
6. Apple doesn't just do this "n+2" thing; they also artificially lock out features for everything but the newest device, to sell more of that new device, even though the HARDWARE differences between devices are really minor and the SOFTWARE could really run on the entire iOS device line if they really wanted to. Example: http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/ (bottom of page has loads of artificial lockouts based on model, such as limiting OFFLINE BROWSER BOOKMARKS to the latest devices - something that NOBODY could argue is a CPU/GPU power-related choice).

It's just not cool to have $500-1000 tablet hardware artificially killed off in just two years. With Windows Mobile / Android, you know that your hardware is going to serve you (via custom OS updates) until the day that YOU feel that you want a faster CPU/GPU and really want to upgrade the hardware. NOT when some arbitrary outside force says "I know you just bought this really powerful thing, but uhm, about that... yeah, no more cake for you, but you can always buy our latest really powerful thing version 2, and we'll provide you with cake again until we decide that you should buy the really powerful thing version 3, and oh yeah, there'll of course be a really powerful thing version 4 soon after that, so yeah, don't get too attached".

roxxette
Jun 11, 2012, 09:32 PM
At least you get several updates on iOS as soon as it's released. Android = maybe an upgrade 8 months after release.

For exactly "security updates" ...... Im a iphone fan but seriously theres only 1 update a year the rest is 99% ****

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 09:36 PM
For exactly "security updates" ...... Im a iphone fan but seriously theres only 1 update a year the rest is 99% ****

True that. Almost all of the point-releases of iOS are maintenance/bugfix/security related. New features are relegated to major iOS upgrades once a year. That is how it should be, though - it's good software design to do a feature freeze and focus on bug fixing in the stable/released branch, while developing experimental features behind closed doors.

Mad Mac Maniac
Jun 11, 2012, 09:39 PM
There is a lot of emotion flying around in this thread. I don't really care to get too much into it but I will say one thing.

Don't forget these are FREE upgrades, so you really can't complain all that much. This isn't a "PC operating system". This is a whole new ballgame. You can't necessarily guarentee 6 years of upgrades.

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 09:46 PM
It could. It's not THAT much weaker than the newer models, even the 3GS.

Sure, SOME features would be too much, like graphics-intensive 3D maps, but most things would run.

The iPhone 1 is much less powerful then the 3Gs. Lightyears behind. Even iOS 3.0 made it get a bit slow and you're wanting it to run iOS 6? It couldn't even handle iOS 4 very well as seen by the iPhone 3G. Both the iPhone 3G and iPhone 1 have the exact same GPU/RAM/GPU configuration. If the iPhone 3G couldn't handle iOS 4 well, then the iPhone 1 certainly couldn't any better.


1. Apple killswitching devices years before the HARDWARE would have felt too slow. This is unlike all other platforms, where the user can always stay up to date in some way.

How is this unlike other platforms? I don't see Windows Mobile 6 devices getting Windows Phone 7. Android, I'm not even going to start on that. Symbian OS? You'd be lucky if Nokia even acknowledges your device exists after one year.


2. Apple having a very small, homogenous product line and >100 billion dollars in the bank, yet can't even be bothered to release SECURITY updates for older devices, when those devices use the same architecture and could easily have the security patches applied.


If Apple was to support ever old device, it'd turn into Microsoft with Windows XP and 2000. Both operating systems are over 10 years old.


3. Apple killing a tablet - a major, powerful device - just two years after launch, and for no reason other than wanting to force people to buy new hardware.

The iPad 1G ceased to be a "major, powerful device" the moment the iPad 2 was released. Since then, it was all back seat.


4. Tablets are powerful and meant to last many years; whereas phones are something you replace often.


Tablets made of cell phone internals? Only as long as a typical cell phone. Tablets made from a x86 CPU? As long as Microsoft keeps updating XP/7 it'll last. Don't forget ARM and x86 tablets are in completely different worlds. This could change when Windows 8 comes out, but it won't effect iOS very much.


5. The iPad 1 is not very different from the iPad 2/3, and could easily run everything in iOS 6.

The iPad 1 is very different from the 2 and 3. One has one CPU core and the others have two. One has 256Mb of ram and the others have 2x and 4x that amount. One's GPU is grossly underpowered where as the others are very powerful.


6. Apple doesn't just do this "n+2" thing; they also artificially lock out features for everything but the newest device, to sell more of that new device, even though the HARDWARE differences between devices are really minor and the SOFTWARE could really run on the entire iOS device line if they really wanted to. Example: http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/ (bottom of page has loads of artificial lockouts based on model, such as limiting OFFLINE BROWSER BOOKMARKS to the latest devices - something that NOBODY could argue is a CPU/GPU power-related choice).


Locking out old features isn't something that just Apple does. Look at Vista's Areo features. They only work on good GPUs even though a poor GPU can render it.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 09:49 PM
There is a lot of emotion flying around in this thread. I don't really care to get too much into it but I will say one thing.

Don't forget these are FREE upgrades, so you really can't complain all that much. This isn't a "PC operating system". This is a whole new ballgame. You can't necessarily guarentee 6 years of upgrades.

They're not free upgrades. They're paid for with the hundreds of dollars that the device cost, and without the OS the device would just be a collection of metal and silicon.

As for Apple, with its >100 billion dollar bank reserve, it is piss-poor that they don't even devote a few programmers to releasing security fixes for older iOS versions. It's understandable to lock out slow, old devices from getting the latest features. It's a whole different thing to completely screw them over by leaving their devices open to extremely serious exploits, where visiting malicious websites could completely take over your device. Apple doesn't care about that and it was up to a third party community of jailbreak hackers to fix these issues for older devices. Something that a single Apple programmer could have done in four easy steps:

1. Apply source code patch to fix exploit
2. Re-compile
3. Make sure the program still works (it most likely will, otherwise it'll take a few minutes to fix whatever went wrong)
4. Package and release the security update for older devices.

About 15 minutes of work for one solitary programmer.

Surely a 100 billion dollar budget could cover one programmer to make sure that old devices don't sit around with extremely serious, gaping security holes? No, not in Apple's world. :rolleyes:

BFizzzle
Jun 11, 2012, 09:52 PM
It could. It's not THAT much weaker than the newer models, even the 3GS:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone#Model_comparison

Sure, SOME features would be too much, like graphics-intensive 3D maps, but most things would run.
I could easily notice my iPhone 3G running slow when I enabled multitasking and wallpapers lol.


I agree with what your saying for the most part..

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 09:53 PM
They're not free upgrades. They're paid for with the hundreds of dollars that the device cost, and without the OS the device would just be a collection of metal and silicon.

As for Apple, with its >100 billion dollar bank reserve, it is piss-poor that they don't even devote a few programmers to releasing security fixes for older iOS versions. It's understandable to lock out slow, old devices from getting the latest features. It's a whole different thing to completely screw them over by leaving their devices open to extremely serious exploits, where visiting malicious websites could completely take over your device. Apple doesn't care about that and it was up to a third party community of jailbreak hackers to fix these issues for older devices. Something that a single Apple programmer could have done in four easy steps:

1. Apply source code patch to fix exploit
2. Re-compile
3. Make sure the program still works (it most likely will, otherwise it'll take a few minutes to fix whatever went wrong)
4. Package and release the security update for older devices.

About 15 minutes of work for one solitary programmer.

Surely a 100 billion dollar budget could cover one programmer to make sure that old devices don't sit around with extremely serious, gaping security holes? No, not in Apple's world. :rolleyes:

They are free. The updates used to cost real money for the iPod Touches. iOS 1.1.3 cost $20, 2.0 cost $10, and 3 cost $5.

Constantly keeping things up to date in that way is very resourceful, especially as that product gets more and more obsolete.

sixteen12
Jun 11, 2012, 09:54 PM
Installing Android on a Tablet or phone it's really not like installing Ubuntu, or Windows on PC. Essentially the drivers have to be coded into the OS. if the community has no interest in putting it on your phone, or you aren't fairly computer savy with a fair amount of free time, you won't get the latest release.

Yes for a lot of the better phones you can root and install a custom rom, but this has varying degrees of ease. Titanium Backup is nice to keep all your info from your apps saved, but it doesn't always work between phones.

Zac7
Jun 11, 2012, 09:56 PM
Dude, just get a new device. Kind of sound like a whiney child.

blackhand1001
Jun 11, 2012, 09:57 PM
The iPhone 1 is much less powerful then the 3Gs. Lightyears behind. Even iOS 3.0 made it get a bit slow and you're wanting it to run iOS 6? It couldn't even handle iOS 4 very well as seen by the iPhone 3G. Both the iPhone 3G and iPhone 1 have the exact same GPU/RAM/GPU configuration. If the iPhone 3G couldn't handle iOS 4 well, then the iPhone 1 certainly couldn't any better.



How is this unlike other platforms? I don't see Windows Mobile 6 devices getting Windows Phone 7. Android, I'm not even going to start on that. Symbian OS? You'd be lucky if Nokia even acknowledges your device exists after one year.



If Apple was to support ever old device, it'd turn into Microsoft with Windows XP and 2000. Both operating systems are over 10 years old.



The iPad 1G ceased to be a "major, powerful device" the moment the iPad 2 was released. Since then, it was all back seat.



Tablets made of cell phone internals? Only as long as a typical cell phone. Tablets made from a x86 CPU? As long as Microsoft keeps updating XP/7 it'll last. Don't forget ARM and x86 tablets are in completely different worlds. This could change when Windows 8 comes out, but it won't effect iOS very much.



The iPad 1 is very different from the 2 and 3. One has one CPU core and the others have two. One has 256Mb of ram and the others have 2x and 4x that amount. One's GPU is grossly underpowered where as the others are very powerful.



Locking out old features isn't something that just Apple does. Look at Vista's Areo features. They only work on good GPUs even though a poor GPU can render it.

Clearly you are uninformed. The requirement for vistas aero was having a wddm driver because that included support for directx scheduling which was necessary to run aero and another directx application at the same time. It was a not a software lock. As long as you gpu supported wddm which almost all of them since like 2003 do you had aero.

pure3d2
Jun 11, 2012, 10:02 PM
I'll just say one more thing:

Image (http://1.androidauthority.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Tablet-Market-Share-Trends.png)

I hope Android takes over and matures as a platform to attract even more developers. I agree that the screen resolution, GPU and CPU power differences are a major hurdle for it. Google really should have set some strict standards that all licensed devices must follow, such as certain evenly divisible resolutions for smartphones, and others for tablets, all higher ones being twice the lower one, to ensure that apps can scale gracefully. I.e. smartphones: 640x480, 1280x960. Tablets: 1280x960, 2560x1920. They should also have demanded certain CPU and GPU standards at each resolution, measured using some official benchmarking program, to ensure that all devices meet a certain standard. Had those steps been taken, Android would have been an even better platform.

For now I gotta think about what to do. If I had $0 invested in actual software for the iOS platform, I would leave now, but since I have over $1000 in software, in addition to the $950 for the iPad 1, it's not as easy to cut my losses and leave.

Chances are I'll stay with the iPad 1 on iOS 5 and become more and more pissed off when apps start requiring iOS 6, then finally upgrade a year from now. Apple wins as usual.

Go and get an Android tablet then.

Intell
Jun 11, 2012, 10:03 PM
Clearly you are uninformed. The requirement for vistas aero was having a wddm driver because that included support for directx scheduling which was necessary to run aero and another directx application at the same time. It was a not a software lock. As long as you gpu supported wddm which almost all of them since like 2003 do you had aero.

It was an example. Windows isn't my strongest point.

MythicFrost
Jun 11, 2012, 10:04 PM
So you say don't buy an Android device because you won't get updates? So tell me, what good is it to buy an iphone or ipad if it's not gonna get the upgrade and features that come with the next OS? Or if it's not gonna have the hardware to run the new OS smoothly. I'll never tell another person stick with the iPhone because you'll get updates!! People in glass houses....
Why's that? The iPhone 3GS is STILL getting iOS 6. That means it's going to have received three additional full OS releases after what it was introduced with... that's good support.

Jessica Lares
Jun 11, 2012, 10:04 PM
iPhone and iPod Touch devices don't last forever. I think you'll find that most of these 2G and 3G devices on eBay and Craiglist are all cracked and damaged in some way. These are devices run apps that use the accelerometer, gyroscope, and gestures that require a lot of moving of the device in awkward ways. Sooner or later you break it, whether it be a year from when you bought it, or three. They are not computers that sit on your desk.

The iPad 1 is already getting slower with all the updates and tweaks being pushed to it. Apps are getting bigger too. I think for the most part, iBooks will be the main app that gets updated for it so they can still promote it for use in education.

iOS is not fragmented.

aitte
Jun 11, 2012, 10:11 PM
Dude, just get a new device. Kind of sound like a whiney child.

"Just get a new device" when the iPad 1 is really fast and not at all in need of an upgrade other than Apple saying that you must? I was planning to MAYBE upgrade to the iPad 4 in the future.

Like I said, I'd leave iOS now and go for a top of the line Android device (to be sure it'll have a fan following and receive custom ROMs), but am tied by having $1000 in iOS software, plus about a thousand more in music purchases on the same AppleID.

However, I had an idea...

- I paid $980 for the iPad 1 on launch day two years ago.
- You can get $350-380 second hand now, but that's the price BEFORE news about iOS 6 started spreading, so chances of sale will drop with each day as more and more people are informed of the limitation.
- The iPad 3 costs $840 new.
- If I manage to sell the iPad 1, that means an extra expense of $490 gets me from iPad 1 to iPad 3.
- But then I realized "Wait a minute, why should I pay $490 now when I don't have ANY interest in the iPad 3? My iPad 1 can run anything I throw at it..."

Hmm, an alternate path then would be to keep using the iPad 1, then go for the iPad 4 next year or the iPad 5 the year after that. Sure, the iPad 1 will keep dropping in price and might become completely unsellable when enough people know that it won't get iOS 6, but by skipping generations, I get more upgrade for my money later, without totally worthless expenses in the interim; the iPad 3 really doesn't offer any benefit for anything but gamers, or someone doing something weird that requires such a beefy CPU...

Hmm...

I think I'll remain an iOS user after all (solely because of my thousands of dollars in apps/music on this AppleID), and do the ".ipa" app update-avoiding dance where needed, and then finally upgrade the iPad 1-2 years from now as had already been planned... I just hope there are no severe security issues for iOS 5 in the interim.

What I like about iOS is how well it integrates with iTunes and Macs. What I dislike is how dang restricted the app choices are. Maybe this whole ordeal will make me try out jailbreaking for once. I've always avoided that because I don't trust unsigned code, but... hmm. It'd bring some of the Android freedom benefits over to iOS.

PS: If you look at just the price I and other early iPad adopters paid - $980 - and divide it by the two years of use, that's $490 a year or in other words *damn* expensive. Stretching it to four years (iPad 5) would make that $245/yr, and more in the ballpark of what I had expected to get out of it...

Thanks for the interesting debate. I can't leave iOS. Too much invested in it. I'll hold out, hope for no serious security vulnerabilities, and look into jailbreaking to get some of the other Android freedoms.

12dylan34
Jun 11, 2012, 10:28 PM
Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?



Ever try to run iOS 4 on an iPhone 3G? Hope you aren't in a hurry to do anything. I would stand to dispute your last claim.

Vegastouch
Jun 11, 2012, 11:09 PM
At least you get several updates on iOS as soon as it's released. Android = maybe an upgrade 8 months after release.

You are getting a major update after one year since iOS 5 came out and this is what you get?

8 Months dont look so bad now does it? Many devices are getting updated to ICS and the Samsung GS2 just got theirs today for those saying they never give out updates.

I dont know....the GS3 is so far ahead of iOS right now, it isnt funny. iOS did really nothing to gain ground asside from a better Siri (thats debatable right now) and a better Nav than what they had.

I mean c-mon, i see people excited that Emoji got an update. Really????
Im not trying to be critical. Id really like to see Apple step it up for the compitition aspect but damn! I guess a bigger screen was their biggest deal and it will be a big deal but geezz. The GS3 was a huge upgrade overall.

Jessica Lares
Jun 11, 2012, 11:28 PM
You are getting a major update after one year since iOS 5 came out and this is what you get?

8 Months dont look so bad now does it? Many devices are getting updated to ICS and the Samsung GS2 just got theirs today for those saying they never give out updates.

I dont know....the GS3 is so far ahead of iOS right now, it isnt funny. iOS did really nothing to gain ground asside from a better Siri (thats debatable right now) and a better Nav than what they had.

I mean c-mon, i see people excited that Emoji got an update. Really????
Im not trying to be critical. Id really like to see Apple step it up for the compitition aspect but damn! I guess a bigger screen was their biggest deal and it will be a big deal but geezz. The GS3 was a huge upgrade overall.

Apple doesn't need to make major updates. They have a strong product as it stands. And it's much, much better than Android. And as Apple has shown today, it's the developers who matter the most. Without them, the iPhone and iPad would be nothing. Just like all those Android phones and tablets are nothing.

And that's coming from someone that owns both an Android phone and tablet.

DodgeV83
Jun 11, 2012, 11:33 PM
8 Months dont look so bad now does it?

In terms of updates, Android is quite literally the worst OS (mobile or not) being sold on the market today.

Installing an unofficial operating system, completely overwriting the operating system that shipped with the device, from a random guy posting in a message forum, is not a solution.

You wouldn't run a random .exe posted in a forum from someone claiming to have some really cool new features to show you, yet this is much worse.

Vegastouch
Jun 11, 2012, 11:46 PM
In terms of updates, Android is quite literally the worst OS (mobile or not) being sold on the market today.

Installing an unofficial operating system, completely overwriting the operating system that shipped with the device, from a random guy posting in a message forum, is not a solution.

You wouldn't run a random .exe posted in a forum from someone claiming to have some really cool new features to show you, yet this is much worse.

<YAWN>.....Sorry but ICS along with the GS3 is a huge upgrade. This iOS6 announcement is weak sauce.

It dont matter what you say, you are a broken record. Many Android devices are getting update now to ICS. The GS2 got theirs today, adding to the list... and you know what....even on my Vibrant i can update it tomorrow to ICS if i want (and i have) and yes, many of the Devs who make ROMs do a real good job. They arent some random guy on just any forum and they build ROMs from leaks from Samsung who do it on purpose.

Not sure if the iPhone devs(for which there are only around 3) have even been able to unlock the 4S yet.

Technarchy
Jun 11, 2012, 11:48 PM
You are getting a major update after one year since iOS 5 came out and this is what you get?

8 Months dont look so bad now does it? Many devices are getting updated to ICS and the Samsung GS2 just got theirs today for those saying they never give out updates.

I dont know....the GS3 is so far ahead of iOS right now, it isnt funny. iOS did really nothing to gain ground asside from a better Siri (thats debatable right now) and a better Nav than what they had.

I mean c-mon, i see people excited that Emoji got an update. Really????
Im not trying to be critical. Id really like to see Apple step it up for the compitition aspect but damn! I guess a bigger screen was their biggest deal and it will be a big deal but geezz. The GS3 was a huge upgrade overall.

You're being obtuse, or your really don't get it.

There is a reason iOS is the developers OS of choice.

While android users are looking for welfare "free" adware filled apps, and praying some basement made half ass ROM is made for their phone, iOS users are actually consuming content, staying loyal to the brand and OS, and are overwhelmingly satisfied.

Android is utterly horrible software, with an even worse business model. But hey, those live wallpapers are so useful.

DodgeV83
Jun 11, 2012, 11:53 PM
<YAWN>.....Sorry but ICS along with the GS3 is a huge upgrade. This iOS6 announcement is weak sauce.

It dont matter what you say, you are a broken record. Many Android devices are getting update now to ICS. The GS2 got theirs today, adding to the list... and you know what....even on my Vibrant i can update it tomorrow to ICS if i want (and i have) and yes, many of the Devs who make ROMs do a real good job. They arent some random guy on just any forum and they build ROMs from leaks from Samsung who do it on purpose.

Not sure if the iPhone devs(for which there are only around 3) have even been able to unlock the 4S yet.

Your response does not negate any of my claims. :p

Tminusg
Jun 12, 2012, 12:01 AM
So I just bought a HTC FLYER for my truck. Some poor sucker bought this devicelast year at full price for 499$, obviously overpriced but granted it is a nice 7" tablet (lovin that i got it for 185$ like new). Come to find out YA sweet it got Honeycomb upgraded from Gingerbread, too bad the gps stopped locking after the upgrade to Honeycomb. 1 year later gps fix is still not out and support for the device is being dropped lol, wow best 500$ someone ever spent. Broken main feature with no fix and dropped support. Go buy an android, but beware make sure its a flagship.

roxxette
Jun 12, 2012, 12:06 AM
Apple doesn't need to make major updates. They have a strong product as it stands. And it's much, much better than Android. And as Apple has shown today, it's the developers who matter the most. Without them, the iPhone and iPad would be nothing. Just like all those Android phones and tablets are nothing.

And that's coming from someone that owns both an Android phone and tablet.

A android fan/user will probably say the same thing you say my friend :p for YOU AND ME iOS is a better product , thats why whe are here because whe choose apple and continued to support the OS.....

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 12:07 AM
Your response does not negate any of my claims. :p

Those werent claims. They were your opinion which were actually kind of ridiculous that i doubt you even experienced with an Android.

SprSynJn
Jun 12, 2012, 12:14 AM
Here is something I don't get, why do people keep saying the new Galaxy is miles ahead of the iPhone? Samsung just copied the 4Ss functions and design. That spoken program is a copy of Siri. Their cloud service is the same as iCloud, albeit some missing features. Hell, even the phone itself looks like an iPhone. Unless I'm missing something here, there is nothing on that phone that stands out. Why all the praise for it and the hate for iOS?

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 12:17 AM
You're being obtuse, or your really don't get it.

There is a reason iOS is the developers OS of choice.

While android users are looking for welfare "free" adware filled apps, and praying some basement made half ass ROM is made for their phone, iOS users are actually consuming content, staying loyal to the brand and OS, and are overwhelmingly satisfied.

Android is utterly horrible software, with an even worse business model. But hey, those live wallpapers are so useful.

:rolleyes: Did you use a poll to find this out? There are many of the same devs that make the same apps for the iPhone and there are also a ton of kids that use this forum that are looking for free apps so what are you talking about?

I dont care if an app costs money if it is good and the free ones with ads is a good way to try them out. If it is good, ill buy the better one. If i buy one and it isnt that good, ill get a refund.

I dont use live wallpapers either but you know ......i can if i want to. You cant and that is one of the beauties of Android. You think it is horrible, great! 900,000 Android activators per day dont agree with that number rising in 10 days.

----------

Here is something I don't get, why do people keep saying the new Galaxy is miles ahead of the iPhone? Samsung just copied the 4Ss functions and design. That spoken program is a copy of Siri. Their cloud service is the same as iCloud, albeit some missing features. Hell, even the phone itself looks like an iPhone. Unless I'm missing something here, there is nothing on that phone that stands out. Why all the praise for it and the hate for iOS?

I absolutely have nothing against the iPhone or Apple as i have other products and will get more but you have no clue what your saying here. The iPhone was not the first touchscreen phone for starters. And the 4S in fact copied functions from Android....like notifications which still arent as good.

They all copy.

SprSynJn
Jun 12, 2012, 12:19 AM
Then why don't you enlighten me? As someone who apparently does know what he/she is talking about, it would be pretty easy I'd imagine.

Jessica Lares
Jun 12, 2012, 12:29 AM
:rolleyes: Did you use a poll to find this out? There are many of the same devs that make teh same apps for the Iphone and there are also a ton of kids that use this forum that are looking for free apps so what are you talking about?

I dont care if an app costs money if it is good and the free ones with ads is a good way to try them out. If it is good, ill buy the better one. If i buy one and it isnt that good, ill get a refund.

I dont use live wallpapers either but you know ......i can if i want to. You cant and that is one of the beauties of Android. You think it is horrible, great! 900,000 Android activators per day dont agree with that number rising in 10 days.

No there aren't. Go to the Google Play website and you will find that there are only the mainstream apps that you can get that are also on the iPhone. Most of the productivity apps aren't there, most of the camera apps aren't either. It's just a bunch of task, notes, and other useless apps that no one wants because they all are the same thing. Sure, there are people here that look for free apps, but there are actually apps that are free and also worth our time. That is not the case of Android. All the free apps are junk, covered in ads (push ads even that use the notification system for spam), and are mostly games that are made over and over again. Who wants to play the same Bejeweled game 50 times?

There is nothing worth buying either. I've only bought about 10 apps so far, the good ones at that. I spent about $1,000 on iOS apps since the first iPhone came out.

And just because there are 900,000 activations of Android everyday doesn't mean that a lot of those people don't take them back.

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 12:29 AM
Then why don't you enlighten me? As someone who apparently does know what he/she is talking about, it would be pretty easy I'd imagine.

I mentioned two things. Do a Google search. That seems to be a lost art in here.

rjbeh
Jun 12, 2012, 12:35 AM
wow... thunderstorms and tidal waves... lol... for me, i'd just buy every single of their iDevices no matter how locked up or "no freedom" whatever crap it is... If you have the extra money just get a new device every year. Thats what I did. Afterall the apps that you paid to , you can always redownload them to your new iDevices. So why the whining? Also, + 1 why Apple still win over Android devices are, 3rd party manufacturers will produce products that are compatible with iDevices MORE than Android devices. i.e look at iPhone cases... no matter where you go, there will be people selling them regardless of knock offs or originals. (i spent nearly 3 thousand dollars for my iDevice accessories, that doesn't stop me from hating apple). So stop whining and move on with the new updates :D

a little out of topic here, but who's anticipating the "new iPhone / iPhone 5" ? i know i am :D :D

Tmelon
Jun 12, 2012, 12:36 AM
I'd rather have a partial version of a new OS than be stranded at 2.3 Gingerbread on a <1 year old device.

crushvic
Jun 12, 2012, 12:42 AM
this is awesome, ios6 is a really big update .... i love apple.... now you can compete very well with android 2.2 FROYO ..
suck that android fan you cannot catch us you are 4 years behind
when the iphone 5 is release the galaxy y /mini and other android mid range device will be put in shame.



IOS: y you no update android. :confused:

ANDROID: because even android 2.2froyo is enough to compete to ios6, ios7, ios8 and the future update of your os

DodgeV83
Jun 12, 2012, 12:47 AM
Those werent claims. They were your opinion which were actually kind of ridiculous that i doubt you even experienced with an Android.

My claims are not based on my opinion. Claim #1 is based on comparing numbers, #2 refers to standard security protocol in the computer industry, and #3 is based on what is technically possible with an infected .exe installer vs an infected OS installer.

Claim #1: In terms of updates (how long it takes to receive them on your device once released, how long your device is supported...etc), Android is quite literally the worst OS (mobile or not) being sold on the market today.

Claim #2: Installing an unofficial operating system, completely overwriting the operating system that shipped with the device, from a random guy posting in a message forum, is not a secure solution.

Claim #3: Replacing the entire operating system with one posted by a random guy on a message forum, is worse than running a .exe posted by a random guy on a message forum.

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 01:12 AM
My claims are not based on my opinion. Claim #1 is based on comparing numbers, #2 refers to standard security protocol in the computer industry, and #3 is based on what is technically possible with an infected .exe installer vs an infected OS installer.

Claim #1: In terms of updates (how long it takes to receive them on your device once released, how long your device is supported...etc), Android is quite literally the worst OS (mobile or not) being sold on the market today.

You said:

In terms of updates, Android is quite literally the worst OS (mobile or not) being sold on the market today.

Overall, perhaps. There are many, many different android devices and they all arent going to get the big updates. You want them, get a flagship phone or a nexus line phone. Apple has one phone and it takes a year to get a major update....and those , the last two have been underwhelming.

Is it the worst OS on the market today? Well no, its OS is right now better than iOS. So, i call that an Opinion!

Claim #2: Installing an unofficial operating system, completely overwriting the operating system that shipped with the device, from a random guy posting in a message forum, is not a secure solution.

Random guy? I take it you dont go to the XDA site. Those devs use leaks from Samsung(which has been the phone ive used) so they make custom ROM's based off of Samsungs OS leaks and use that script. So you wouldnt do it, and like i said, things i doubt you have done with an Android.

So, ill call that an Opinion.



Claim #3: Replacing the entire operating system with one posted by a random guy on a message forum, is worse than running a .exe posted by a random guy on a message forum.

:rolleyes: WTH are you even talking about here? Like i said, things i doubt you have done with an Android and most likely never been to XDA, so you really dont know.
Its a lot like not looking at somebodys rating and record buying or selling something on eBay. Use your head. Ive never had a any trouble with the devs at XDA and many watch out for trouble makers or whiners whe nthey show up.... and the devs and other posters are actually quite helpful.

They put a lot of work into those custom ROMs and want you to try their work so they arent going to screw you over. They want to expand themselves. Some even go on to develope Apps or just perhaps maybe like to get a small donation for all the work they have done.

Again, ill call that an Opinion!

SprSynJn
Jun 12, 2012, 01:46 AM
I mentioned two things. Do a Google search. That seems to be a lost art in here.

Looks like you edited your post. Nice one.

I never said the iPhone didn't copy. I was just trying to point out that Android does as well. Yet when something is released in that camp, people praise it like it's new. It's not new, it never is. Nor is the Galaxy miles ahead of the iPhone. Siri is something of an innovation. Live screen wallpaper, or whatever it's called, and widgets are not. You still haven't pointed out what makes the Galaxy, and other Android devices, so much better. I can see how they might be for people wo love to customize, but what else? I would like to know.

P.S. notifications were around before Android was. If you're referring to the Notification Center, yes that was obviously taken from Google. But Google took it from some other phone company, did they not? As a matter of fact, most of their features have come from other companies if I'm not mistaken. Hell, even their web services are nothing new.

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 09:37 AM
Looks like you edited your post. Nice one.

I never said the iPhone didn't copy. I was just trying to point out that Android does as well. Yet when something is released in that camp, people praise it like it's new. It's not new, it never is. Nor is the Galaxy miles ahead of the iPhone. Siri is something of an innovation. Live screen wallpaper, or whatever it's called, and widgets are not. You still haven't pointed out what makes the Galaxy, and other Android devices, so much better. I can see how they might be for people wo love to customize, but what else? I would like to know.

P.S. notifications were around before Android was. If you're referring to the Notification Center, yes that was obviously taken from Google. But Google took it from some other phone company, did they not? As a matter of fact, most of their features have come from other companies if I'm not mistaken. Hell, even their web services are nothing new.

It's been discussed many times in here so sorry if i dont want to repeat it yet again. The information is there so do a Google search which many like you are told to do often.
You said all Samsung did was copy the 4s which is just laughable. There are threads on this all over. Go find one.

SprSynJn
Jun 12, 2012, 09:46 AM
It's been discussed many times in here so sorry if i dont want to repeat it yet again. The information is there so do a Google search which many like you are told to do often.
You said all Samsung did was copy the 4s which is just laughable. There are threads on this all over. Go find one.

You keep referring to other posts, but that doesn't mean diddly squat to justify that sort of comment. I have seen many articles on what the phone does, and what Android's newest operating system does. I've played around with it too. It was great eye candy, that's for sure. But other than that, I saw nothing else. There's face recognition in it, so that I'll say is something worth mentioning. However, my old standard phone that I purchased here in Japan back in 2007 did that as well. It's nothing new. Something like Siri has not been done on a phone, so that is something new. I'm sorry, but your logic is quite flawed if you think a few cosmetic upgrades is worth calling it advanced.

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 09:54 AM
You keep referring to other posts, but that doesn't mean diddly squat to justify that sort of comment. I have seen many articles on what the phone does, and what Android's newest operating system does. I've played around with it too. It was great eye candy, that's for sure. But other than that, I saw nothing else. There's face recognition in it, so that I'll say is something worth mentioning. However, my old standard phone that I purchased here in Japan back in 2007 did that as well. It's nothing new. Something like Siri has not been done on a phone, so that is something new. I'm sorry, but your logic is quite flawed if you think a few cosmetic upgrades is worth calling it advanced.

Lol, i guess your lazy. Exactly why I refuse to find the things you want to see for you. And Siri was a app in iTunes two years before the 4s came out so it isn't something innovation. They didn't invent it.

Do a search Son. There are many topics. Just go to the thread for the gs3 hands on review. Plenty there for you to read since you clearly have no idea. If not, have a nice day. I've got a busy day starting so no time to hold your hand.

cjmillsnun
Jun 12, 2012, 10:02 AM
So you say don't buy an Android device because you won't get updates? So tell me, what good is it to buy an iphone or ipad if it's not gonna get the upgrade and features that come with the next OS? Or if it's not gonna have the hardware to run the new OS smoothly. I'll never tell another person stick with the iPhone because you'll get updates!! People in glass houses....

Hang on. The 3GS gets this release. That is a 3 year old phone.

Admittedly the iPad (First Gen) doesn't and that is a disappointment.

nooaah
Jun 12, 2012, 10:07 AM
So you say don't buy an Android device because you won't get updates? So tell me, what good is it to buy an iphone or ipad if it's not gonna get the upgrade and features that come with the next OS? Or if it's not gonna have the hardware to run the new OS smoothly. I'll never tell another person stick with the iPhone because you'll get updates!! People in glass houses....

The phone you bought in 2009 (3GS) will have the current operating system through 2013 and you're whining? Can't make everyone happy, I guess.

SprSynJn
Jun 12, 2012, 10:07 AM
So this is what a kid with a blind fascination for a certain product posts like. Thank you for showing me Vegas. You go ahead and enjoy your "revolutionary" phone and keep trying to think of reasons as to why it's better. I'm sure you'll come up with some, eventually. Man, what a waste of time you turned out to be. All arrogant with nothing to show for it.

cjmillsnun
Jun 12, 2012, 10:12 AM
Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.



Absolute Bullcrap!

Show me iOS5 running on an iPhone 3G.

If it was an artificial lockout, someone in the jailbreak community would've removed it and the latest version of iOS would be running and available to download for me to put on my wife's iPhone 3G..

Oh... It's not available!

steviem
Jun 12, 2012, 10:19 AM
So this is what a kid with a blind fascination for a certain product posts like. Thank you for showing me Vegas. You go ahead and enjoy your "revolutionary" phone and keep trying to think of reasons as to why it's better. I'm sure you'll come up with some, eventually. Man, what a waste of time you turned out to be. All arrogant with nothing to show for it.

I'm sure that made sense before going through Google translate.

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 10:20 AM
So this is what a kid with a blind fascination for a certain product posts like. Thank you for showing me Vegas. You go ahead and enjoy your "revolutionary" phone and keep trying to think of reasons as to why it's better. I'm sure you'll come up with some, eventually. Man, what a waste of time you turned out to be. All arrogant with nothing to show for it.

No, it's what a kid does to take the. easy way out. Ask someone to find things for them. There is a thread that's been going on for days on this. I told you the title, go find it. Your the one who is wasting ones time. I dont have any fascination. I know what's different, you are the one in the dark who thinks Apple invented Siri.
Typically laziness.

Sir Ruben
Jun 12, 2012, 10:27 AM
Haha keep drinking the Apple Kool aid if you think an iPhone 3GS is more powerful than an iPad 1. You seem to think that's the case, since you think the list of supported devices is "fair".

Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.

Ever asked yourself why Apple does things like "no multitouch swipe to switch application on iPad 1" and then re-activates the feature after public outrage?

Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Apple artificially locks portions of their software for older models, just to sell newer models. Moreover, they completely lock out certain models, again just to sell models.

They are scum, little freaking rats that can't give people what they paid for - it would take them *one* little click to enable the update for all old devices, but instead it's up to hackers to make the change.

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software - despite *all* devices running the same ARM architecture and *all* devices being able to run *every* feature of iOS 6.

There isn't even ANYTHING in iOS 6 that the iPad 1 can't do, hardware-spec wise.

Again: Apple are scum.

Thousands of dollars invested in hardware and software in my iPad 1 and now they made the iPad 1 unsellable, and soon software will be requiring iOS6. Again: Apple are scum. If I didn't have a huge collection of iOS software, I would sell all my iOS devices and be on Android tomorrow.

And don't sidestep my arguments with some lame "oh wow another Android fanboy, you'll be back soon" or similar thing - I used to strongly dislike Android and utterly loved iOS, until I saw that my brother's Android tablet was far more free (as in freedoms), software-upgradable, customizable and capable than iOS. No limits on what type of software they allow - such as torrenting, video players, emulators, etc - all allowed. And anyone can install the latest Android OS version (even if the manufacturer hasn't officially released a version yet) by installing a vanilla Android build.

There's NEVER any risk of devices becoming ARTIFICIALLY obsolete when you run Android. I wish I could take back all my investment in iOS and ditch this evil platform.

Just have a look at all the features Apple artificially locks you out of, and then try telling me again that they're the good guys. No way.




"As far as you know" is not good enough - Go to http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/ and scroll down to the bottom:



These are all artificial locks. Every device is capable of running all these features, as proven by hacking the firmware to enable the features even on older devices that Apple would prefer you upgrading away from.

Oh Aitte you have just given me a right old chuckle with that uber rant. I knew I was in for a decent rage out when you said "They are scum, little freaking rats" I think I spluttered at my desk at that one :D

Dude you are freaking out that your 2 yr old tablet (and lets remember how fast tech is moving on) is becoming less and less supported? Man I have images of how angry you looked sitting there typing all that. Pure comedy gold. It doesnt stop working just because you cant install IO6 so all of your current apps that you spent so much cash on will continue to work.

Saying that, if I were you, Id turn that frown upsidedown, flog that old tablet on the cheap, and treat yourself to a retina display ipad 3, I feel like Im having my eyeballs massaged by angels every time I use it ;)

Prof.
Jun 12, 2012, 01:07 PM
Was I the only one who read the OP in a condescending Wonka voice?

http://i.iflip.im/t/creepy-condescending-wonka.jpg

nomik2
Jun 12, 2012, 01:13 PM
They are only bringing the software update to products that they are currently selling.

I thought that was obvious...

steviem
Jun 12, 2012, 01:28 PM
this is awesome, ios6 is a really big update .... i love apple.... now you can compete very well with android 2.2 FROYO ..
suck that android fan you cannot catch us you are 4 years behind
when the iphone 5 is release the galaxy y /mini and other android mid range device will be put in shame.



IOS: y you no update android. :confused:

ANDROID: because even android 2.2froyo is enough to compete to ios6, ios7, ios8 and the future update of your os

Yeah, so the Samsung Galaxy (i7500) and the iPhone 3GS both announced in June 2009. Samsung supported the Galaxy to an amazing Android 1.6. Even the 3GS with 'fake' iOS 6 is miles better than that...

Parise
Jun 12, 2012, 01:31 PM
Yeah, so the Samsung Galaxy (i7500) and the iPhone 3GS both announced in June 2009. Samsung supported the Galaxy to an amazing Android 1.6. Even the 3GS with 'fake' iOS 6 is miles better than that...

I do like Android, but man this fragmentation thing is going to kill them.

It's nice knowing that when I hear about an app/feature being released, I dont have to worry about it not working on my phone.

cynics
Jun 12, 2012, 01:58 PM
Yeah, so the Samsung Galaxy (i7500) and the iPhone 3GS both announced in June 2009. Samsung supported the Galaxy to an amazing Android 1.6. Even the 3GS with 'fake' iOS 6 is miles better than that...

OG Droid got an update back in November. It won't get ICS obviously due to hardware and small amount of people still using it (I only know two people personally). Regardless it's still getting updates.

Also a lot of google functions aren't tied into the OS. You can get updates for maps, google voice, google search, google play, google music, gmail app, email app, google movies, books, etc etc etc without getting a whole new OS.

I think A LOT of people over look that fact.

Basically everything noted about iOS 6 are common updates with Android. Just your OS version number doesn't increase.

cwood1009
Jun 12, 2012, 01:58 PM
Haha keep drinking the Apple Kool aid if you think an iPhone 3GS is more powerful than an iPad 1. You seem to think that's the case, since you think the list of supported devices is "fair".

Did you know that iOS lockouts are an artificial limit set by the almighty Apple to lock people out and force them to throw away perfectly good devices?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.

Ever asked yourself why Apple does things like "no multitouch swipe to switch application on iPad 1" and then re-activates the feature after public outrage?

Ever asked yourself why the iOS 6 upgrade has features like "6. Offline Reading List will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later." - a freaking bookmarking feature that "magically" requires higher models than the iPhone 3GS?

Apple artificially locks portions of their software for older models, just to sell newer models. Moreover, they completely lock out certain models, again just to sell models.

They are scum, little freaking rats that can't give people what they paid for - it would take them *one* little click to enable the update for all old devices, but instead it's up to hackers to make the change.

So, early adopters of the iPad 1 bought it thinking they got a "post-PC device", a desktop replacement revolution, and are now - two mere years later - totally out of sh~t luck thanks to Apple being little rats that artificially limit what devices can install the software - despite *all* devices running the same ARM architecture and *all* devices being able to run *every* feature of iOS 6.

There isn't even ANYTHING in iOS 6 that the iPad 1 can't do, hardware-spec wise.

Again: Apple are scum.

Thousands of dollars invested in hardware and software in my iPad 1 and now they made the iPad 1 unsellable, and soon software will be requiring iOS6. Again: Apple are scum. If I didn't have a huge collection of iOS software, I would sell all my iOS devices and be on Android tomorrow.

And don't sidestep my arguments with some lame "oh wow another Android fanboy, you'll be back soon" or similar thing - I used to strongly dislike Android and utterly loved iOS, until I saw that my brother's Android tablet was far more free (as in freedoms), software-upgradable, customizable and capable than iOS. No limits on what type of software they allow - such as torrenting, video players, emulators, etc - all allowed. And anyone can install the latest Android OS version (even if the manufacturer hasn't officially released a version yet) by installing a vanilla Android build.

There's NEVER any risk of devices becoming ARTIFICIALLY obsolete when you run Android. I wish I could take back all my investment in iOS and ditch this evil platform.

Just have a look at all the features Apple artificially locks you out of, and then try telling me again that they're the good guys. No way.




"As far as you know" is not good enough - Go to http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/ and scroll down to the bottom:



These are all artificial locks. Every device is capable of running all these features, as proven by hacking the firmware to enable the features even on older devices that Apple would prefer you upgrading away from.


They are artificial locks because apple doesnt want you to install ios6 on a iphone1 and then call and complain because its unusably slow. The reason that some of the newer devices get more features is because they can run the new features effortlessly. You cant expect a ipad 1 to do the graphics processing of a multicore ipad 2 or 3. Siri's not included on iphone 3gs/4 so you wont get any features connected to that. The main reason Siri's not on iphone 3gs/4 is processing voice takes alot. I dont agree that its not on the ipad 2 however. Apple is and always will be about the experience. They will not support letting a device run these features that will just not work right on that device.

cjmillsnun
Jun 12, 2012, 06:41 PM
You said:



Overall, perhaps. There are many, many different android devices and they all arent going to get the big updates. You want them, get a flagship phone or a nexus line phone. Apple has one phone and it takes a year to get a major update....and those , the last two have been underwhelming.

Is it the worst OS on the market today? Well no, its OS is right now better than iOS. So, i call that an Opinion!



Apple has three phones for sale at the moment. One of which was released in 2009. ALL are getting the update.


Random guy? I take it you dont go to the XDA site. Those devs use leaks from Samsung(which has been the phone ive used) so they make custom ROM's based off of Samsungs OS leaks and use that script. So you wouldnt do it, and like i said, things i doubt you have done with an Android.

So, ill call that an Opinion.


You said it yourself. They make CUSTOM ROMS based on Samsung's OS leaks. Ergo they dick around with it... That is a major security risk. That's not an opinion, that is fact.




:rolleyes: WTH are you even talking about here? Like i said, things i doubt you have done with an Android and most likely never been to XDA, so you really dont know.
Its a lot like not looking at somebodys rating and record buying or selling something on eBay. Use your head. Ive never had a any trouble with the devs at XDA and many watch out for trouble makers or whiners whe nthey show up.... and the devs and other posters are actually quite helpful.

They put a lot of work into those custom ROMs and want you to try their work so they arent going to screw you over. They want to expand themselves. Some even go on to develope Apps or just perhaps maybe like to get a small donation for all the work they have done.

Again, ill call that an Opinion!

Again, they can hide any sort of spyware/keyboard logger or that sort of thing in their firmware and you wouldn't know.

Someone other than the manufacturer or you (if you know what you're doing) dicking around with the OS on your phone is a major security risk. That's not opinion, that's fact.

That doesn't mean that the people at XDA devs have done that, just that there is the potential for them to do that, and it is unlikely you would even know they had.

Greenman85
Jun 12, 2012, 07:14 PM
I just said I wished I could. I've silently tolerated devices being killed off in the past, like the iPhone 3G because it really was a much slower device and at least kind of understandable. But when they artificially kill off the mere 2 year old, very powerful iPad 1, I just saw them for who they really are.

I paid $980 for my iPad 1 as I was one of the very very early adopters. I've also spent about $1000 in iOS software.

There are now 3 options:
1. Try to sell the iPad 1 for $1 to someone dumb enough to want a device that Apple doesn't allow to be upgraded, then spend that $1 towards the iPad 4. This is what Apple wants.
2. Cut all my losses (the $980 for the iPad and the $1000 in iOS software) and leave for Android, where this kind of pure rat-behavior will never happen (since you can always manually upgrade devices and will NEVER be left in the dust - note that I am NOT talking about official upgrades here, I mean installing the latest vanilla Android). Excellent choice, except that it means a huge loss in software costs and time, sigh.
3. Keep using the iPad 1 with iOS 5 until more and more software requires iOS 6, thereby feeding into the urge to get a newer device that can run the newer OS - exactly the reason why Apple artificially limits the OS in this way in the first place.


Another option is to always sell your iOS devices about 3 months before the new one is released, to unsuspecting buyers, while the value is still high, and then always stay on the bleeding edge of latest hardware releases, to never be shafted on updates by Apple. But that's a huge cost to pay, with the constant hardware upgrades.

In short: Apple sure makes it hard to like them.

Damn man. You are one stupid consumer. You bought products you hate.

SprSynJn
Jun 12, 2012, 07:54 PM
I'm sure that made sense before going through Google translate.

English not your first language?

No, it's what a kid does to take the. easy way out. Ask someone to find things for them.

Exactly what you did "son". Not sure you meant to label yourself there, but you did well. Now I know who to avoid next time I want a good discussion.

surma884
Jun 12, 2012, 08:10 PM
So you say don't buy an Android device because you won't get updates? So tell me, what good is it to buy an iphone or ipad if it's not gonna get the upgrade and features that come with the next OS? Or if it's not gonna have the hardware to run the new OS smoothly. I'll never tell another person stick with the iPhone because you'll get updates!! People in glass houses....

This is what most people don't get. Fragmentation is unavoidable when it comes to different generations of the SAME PRODUCT. Apple only sells ONE PHONE. That one phone has multiple generations, and as that ONE phone evolves the older phones will not have all the features of the latest phone.

With Android there are MULTIPLE PHONES from different manufacturers and they all run different hardware, screens, and OS versions.

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 10:12 PM
Exactly what you did "son". Not sure you meant to label yourself there, but you did well. Now I know who to avoid next time I want a good discussion.

Funny, Your the one who wants to know something but I took the easy way out? :rolleyes:

Ive been in on many of these discussions. I just didnt have time today. There are many threads on this and you can Google it to find what you want, you just dont want to. At least browse thru the threads, there is plenty to find. So if you want to avoid me, i dont care and it wont hurt my feelings. There are plenty of others here. You thought Apple invented Siri and i just told you they didnt and that it was just an App in the App store two years ago. I told you that Apple didnt invent the touch screen and werent the first ones to have it. I would think you might want to know more and do a search but nooo.

I dont think telling you to do a Google search is out of line. If you dont like seeing that, you wont like it here because if your unwilling to search, it wont be the last time you see it.

Abazigal
Jun 12, 2012, 10:43 PM
No, it's what a kid does to take the. easy way out. Ask someone to find things for them. There is a thread that's been going on for days on this. I told you the title, go find it. Your the one who is wasting ones time. I dont have any fascination. I know what's different, you are the one in the dark who thinks Apple invented Siri.
Typically laziness.

I respectfully disagree.

I have always found it irritating whenever someone makes a claim or argument in a public forum, then when asked to back it up, simply tells the poster to search for it himself. The onus is really on you to supply the facts which you claim will support your stance, and it doesn't help that you proceed to call them names for not doing something which really is your responsibility in the first place! :rolleyes:

Not to mention that your tone is rude and abrasive, making it all the more difficult for people to take you seriously or treat your words as little more than a whiny troll.

To me, it is rude, dismissive, and how will you know that the person in question will end up locating and reading the articles you have in mind? You of all people would know best what sort of articles you have in mind, and so should be in the best position to retrieve them for the benefit of a healthy discussion. However, it seems you are not interested in that.

The only time I do this is if I am posting from my iphone and don't have the links on hand to replicate, and the interface does not make copy-and-pasting conducive. Else, it is not really that difficult to locate the sites. In addition, once you have done it, replicating the same thing is even easier (should you be faced with a similar debate in future), because you can always just link back to your original post.

If those articles really were so important and relevant to your case, how hard would be it to simply keep a simple text file containing links to those posts? Then recall them as appropriate. :eek:

SprSynJn
Jun 12, 2012, 10:49 PM
Vegas, you are one confused individual. I never said Apple "invented" Siri. I'm not sure where you got that from. Anyway, abazigal basically summed up what I was trying to tell you several posts ago. Please read and dwell on it. Thank you.

DodgeV83
Jun 12, 2012, 10:58 PM
You said:



Overall, perhaps. There are many, many different android devices and they all arent going to get the big updates. You want them, get a flagship phone or a nexus line phone. Apple has one phone and it takes a year to get a major update....and those , the last two have been underwhelming.

Is it the worst OS on the market today? Well no, its OS is right now better than iOS. So, i call that an Opinion!



Random guy? I take it you dont go to the XDA site. Those devs use leaks from Samsung(which has been the phone ive used) so they make custom ROM's based off of Samsungs OS leaks and use that script. So you wouldnt do it, and like i said, things i doubt you have done with an Android.

So, ill call that an Opinion.





:rolleyes: * WTH are you even talking about here? Like i said, things i doubt you have done with an Android and most likely never been to XDA, so you really dont know.
*Its a lot like not looking at somebodys rating and record buying or selling something on eBay. Use your head. Ive never had a any trouble with the devs at XDA and many watch out for trouble makers or whiners whe nthey show up.... and the devs and other posters are actually quite helpful.*

They put a lot of work into those custom ROMs and want you to try their work so they arent going to screw you over. They want to expand themselves. Some even go on to develope Apps or just perhaps maybe like to get a small donation for all the work they have done.

Again, ill call that an Opinion!

Classic Strawman argument:

A straw man argument attempts to counter a position by attacking a different position – usually one that is easier to counter. The arguer invents a caricature of his opponent’s position – a “straw man” – that is easily refuted, but not the position that his opponent actually holds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

My statement:

In terms of updates, Android is quite literally the worst OS (mobile or not) being sold on the market today.

The statement you are countering:

Is it the worst OS on the market today? Well no, its OS is right now better than iOS. So, i call that an Opinion!

My statement:

Installing an unofficial operating system, completely overwriting the operating system that shipped with the device, from a random guy posting in a message forum, is not a secure solution.


The statement you're countering:

So you wouldnt do it, and like i said, things i doubt you have done with an Android.

So, ill call that an Opinion.

How is it my opinion that the ROMs are posted by random guys?

Do you personally know them?

If so, is it verifiable that they work for Samsung/Google...whoever?

What makes you believe what they've posted is from a Samsung leak, because they told you?

Even if it were an official link, how do you know they haven't added something malicious to the code after receiving it, because they told you?

How do you know the link you're downloading is the same link the 100 people before you downloaded, which they claim is safe, because they told you?

Even if it's the same link, how do you know the 100 people before you, who claim it's safe, are real accounts? Because you can't believe that hackers would make 100 fake usernames?

How hard would it be for a hacker to make a new ROM, make a name for him/herself for a year, then put a Rootkit key logger in the newest release for a new phone? *How hard would it be for that person to silently switch the download link they are pointing to, only for a few minutes a month, long enough to infect 10 or so users, then switch back?

Forums get hacked all of the time, how can you verify that the username you've been trusting for new updates to the ROM hasn't been compromised, and the new download really is from them?

Many phones out there have custom ROMs posted by relatively new people, how can you verify them?

Our devices have a huge amount of personal information on them, including email passwords (which are stored in the clear on Android), credentials to our bank, old emailed tax returns, credentials to our Paypal/Ebay/Amazon/AppStore...etc. accounts. Someone could easily find your social security number and address (tax returns) and go to town.

This is very big business, there is an unfathomably huge financial incentive for someone to gain access to our phones. I suggest checking out http://krebsonsecurity.com/ - he's written stories of "Kingpins" who have built a fortune consisting of hundreds of millions of dollars through digital identity theft. Some groups have hijacked a a combined worth of over $1 billion.

Some of these people actually have websites where you can buy stolen credit cards/Paypal accounts...etc in bulk. Heck if you buy enough they even give you a discount.

This is why big businesses don't allow rogue devices on their network.

UK banks incur nearly $5 million loss from Zeus Trojan (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2011/10/zeus-trojan-gang-faces-justice/)

Arena firm loses $217,000 from a key logger installed from an email attachment. (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2011/08/ethieves-steal-217k-from-arena-firm/)

KrebsonSecurity has a separate link specifically for attacks on small business (http://krebsonsecurity.com/category/smallbizvictims/)

Here's a common example of a hacked email address leading to bank fraud (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/03/hacked-inboxes-lead-to-bank-fraud/)

Furthermore, it has already been documented that the process of rooting your phone to add a custom ROM, can inherently make your phone less secure:

New Android Malware Attacks Custom ROMs (http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/06/16/2127255/new-android-malware-attacks-custom-roms)

By using permissions granted to apps which are signed with the same private keys as the ROM itself, an app can update itself or install and uninstall other apps without user interaction.

Considering the recent rise of Malware in the Google Play store (http://www.businessinsider.com/angry-birds-malware-in-android-market-2012-4), and rise of people downloading fake versions of Instagram (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/warning-fake-instagram-app-on-android-is-malware/11597), which end up installing a Trojan, it's clear there are people out there trying to infect our phones, what makes you think they wouldn't try to slip something into a custom ROM that people are downloading in large numbers?

Think about it, an entire group of people, who will download unverified copies of an operating system, from an easily anonymized source (a web forum) to put on the one device that has access to literally everything they do online?

When there was a large demand for the RC version of Widows 7, that's exactly what happened (http://www.slashgear.com/leaked-windows-7-rc-torrents-infected-with-trojan-2842048/).

And your entire argument against that, is that they claim to be working with Samsung leaks, and they claim to not have modified them maliciously, and since I personally wouldn't do it, it constitutes my opinion?

My statement:

Replacing the entire operating system with one posted by a random guy on a message forum, is worse than running a .exe posted by a random guy on a message forum.

This is purely a technical argument. Technically, you are more at risk of Trojan Horses, Rootkits and undetectable Malware, when replacing your entire operating system with rogue code, than when running a .exe file. Yet, if a random guy posted a .exe file to a forum, claiming it will unlock cool new Windows features and you've got to try it, it wouldn't fly. The post would probably be deleted by the mods, since they already prohibit uploads of .exe files for that very reason.

Literally nothing you responded with is relevant to my statement, but you ended it with:

They put a lot of work into those custom ROMs and want you to try their work so they arent going to screw you over....

Again, ill call that an Opinion!

Abazigal
Jun 12, 2012, 11:43 PM
In addition, I agree that I wouldn't trust downloading an update from a disreputable source (ie: any file that does not originate from the parent company).

Let's say for a moment that the person offering the update is not a hacker. He is really just a well-intentioned individual who is willing to invest time and effort in releasing software upgrades for the benefit of other people. Even then, it does not necessarily mean that those software will be bug-free or incompatible with your android phone.

And if anything goes wrong, it sounds like it would be an uphill battle to restore your phone, especially when not everyone may be as tech-inclined as some of the posters claim to be. I am sure many have had similar experiences on Windows. You download this file for a mising codec, it solves one problem, but leads to another because of some clash with another program. And the problem snowballs the more you try to resolve it.

The way I see it, the reason why Apple is taking so long to introduce what some deem as merely 'incremental' upgrades is because they have a lot of factors to take into consideration. They want a safe environment, they want to ensure the software will run as smoothly on your apple devices as possible for a pleasant user experience. They want to make sure the apps cannot be used to compromise the integrity of your devices in any way. And more importantly, they need the consider how the app fits into the bigger overall picture. I can image how these doctrines can be as much of an impediment to software design as they have been crucial to preserving the 'Apple experience'.

Contrast with android, where it is really 'anything goes'. Anyone with an iota of dev knowledge can easily release their own apps, because they do not face any such restrictions.

I feel that as Apple users, this is something we have to acknowledge and accept as the tradeoff for a safe and secure user experience. :)

Vegastouch
Jun 12, 2012, 11:57 PM
I respectfully disagree.

I have always found it irritating whenever someone makes a claim or argument in a public forum, then when asked to back it up, simply tells the poster to search for it himself. The onus is really on you to supply the facts which you claim will support your stance, and it doesn't help that you proceed to call them names for not doing something which really is your responsibility in the first place! :rolleyes:

Call them names? Who refered who as a kid first? That is the only "namecalling i see"...asside from me saying "typical laziness", which i stand by.

Not to mention that your tone is rude and abrasive, making it all the more difficult for people to take you seriously or treat your words as little more than a whiny troll.

And you got that from reading some text? :eek: I been here a while now. I dont think anyone considers me a troll :rolleyes:


To me, it is rude, dismissive, and how will you know that the person in question will end up locating and reading the articles you have in mind? You of all people would know best what sort of articles you have in mind, and so should be in the best position to retrieve them for the benefit of a healthy discussion. However, it seems you are not interested in that.

Thats right, i was busy and didnt have time. Didnt you read what i said? It was said twice!

The only time I do this is if I am posting from my iphone and don't have the links on hand to replicate, and the interface does not make copy-and-pasting conducive. Else, it is not really that difficult to locate the sites. In addition, once you have done it, replicating the same thing is even easier (should you be faced with a similar debate in future), because you can always just link back to your original post.

Bingo! Now perhaps you can relate. Is it starting to be more clear now?

If those articles really were so important and relevant to your case, how hard would be it to simply keep a simple text file containing links to those posts? Then recall them as appropriate. :eek:

Not important to me. He is the one who wanted somebody to enlighten him. I didnt have the time.

Vegastouch
Jun 13, 2012, 12:09 AM
Classic Strawman argument:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

My statement:



The statement you are countering:



My statement:




The statement you're countering:



How is it my opinion that the ROMs are posted by random guys?

Do you personally know them?

If so, is it verifiable that they work for Samsung/Google...whoever?

What makes you believe what they've posted is from a Samsung leak, because they told you?

Even if it were an official link, how do you know they haven't added something malicious to the code after receiving it, because they told you?

How do you know the link you're downloading is the same link the 100 people before you downloaded, which they claim is safe, because they told you?

Even if it's the same link, how do you know the 100 people before you, who claim it's safe, are real accounts? Because you can't believe that hackers would make 100 fake usernames?

How hard would it be for a hacker to make a new ROM, make a name for him/herself for a year, then put a Rootkit key logger in the newest release for a new phone? *How hard would it be for that person to silently switch the download link they are pointing to, only for a few minutes a month, long enough to infect 10 or so users, then switch back?

Forums get hacked all of the time, how can you verify that the username you've been trusting for new updates to the ROM hasn't been compromised, and the new download really is from them?

Many phones out there have custom ROMs posted by relatively new people, how can you verify them?

Our devices have a huge amount of personal information on them, including email passwords (which are stored in the clear on Android), credentials to our bank, old emailed tax returns, credentials to our Paypal/Ebay/Amazon/AppStore...etc. accounts. Someone could easily find your social security number and address (tax returns) and go to town.

This is very big business, there is an unfathomably huge financial incentive for someone to gain access to our phones. I suggest checking out http://krebsonsecurity.com/ - he's written stories of "Kingpins" who have built a fortune consisting of hundreds of millions of dollars through digital identity theft. Some groups have hijacked a a combined worth of over $1 billion.

Some of these people actually have websites where you can buy stolen credit cards/Paypal accounts...etc in bulk. Heck if you buy enough they even give you a discount.

This is why big businesses don't allow rogue devices on their network.

UK banks incur nearly $5 million loss from Zeus Trojan (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2011/10/zeus-trojan-gang-faces-justice/)

Arena firm loses $217,000 from a key logger installed from an email attachment. (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2011/08/ethieves-steal-217k-from-arena-firm/)

KrebsonSecurity has a separate link specifically for attacks on small business (http://krebsonsecurity.com/category/smallbizvictims/)

Here's a common example of a hacked email address leading to bank fraud (http://krebsonsecurity.com/2012/03/hacked-inboxes-lead-to-bank-fraud/)

Furthermore, it has already been documented that the process of rooting your phone to add a custom ROM, can inherently make your phone less secure:

New Android Malware Attacks Custom ROMs (http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/06/16/2127255/new-android-malware-attacks-custom-roms)



Considering the recent rise of Malware in the Google Play store (http://www.businessinsider.com/angry-birds-malware-in-android-market-2012-4), and rise of people downloading fake versions of Instagram (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/warning-fake-instagram-app-on-android-is-malware/11597), which end up installing a Trojan, it's clear there are people out there trying to infect our phones, what makes you think they wouldn't try to slip something into a custom ROM that people are downloading in large numbers?

Think about it, an entire group of people, who will download unverified copies of an operating system, from an easily anonymized source (a web forum) to put on the one device that has access to literally everything they do online?

When there was a large demand for the RC version of Widows 7, that's exactly what happened (http://www.slashgear.com/leaked-windows-7-rc-torrents-infected-with-trojan-2842048/).

And your entire argument against that, is that they claim to be working with Samsung leaks, and they claim to not have modified them maliciously, and since I personally wouldn't do it, it constitutes my opinion?

My statement:



This is purely a technical argument. Technically, you are more at risk of Trojan Horses, Rootkits and undetectable Malware, when replacing your entire operating system with rogue code, than when running a .exe file. Yet, if a random guy posted a .exe file to a forum, claiming it will unlock cool new Windows features and you've got to try it, it wouldn't fly. The post would probably be deleted by the mods, since they already prohibit uploads of .exe files for that very reason.

Literally nothing you responded with is relevant to my statement, but you ended it with:

Everything you posted as an arguement is your OPINION! Again, if you dont go to XDA and mingle around and get to see who is reputable, then your not doing your homework and since you obviously are unwilling to do those things, and in fact, dont do it then you cant relate. I dont need to know anything more than that.

Opinion! I get it, you wont try it. I dont care what type of arguement you want here. Its just your opinion that doing those things isnt safe...FOR YOU! If your scared to root your phone and try different things, great! Im not.

And once again, i dont do my banking on my phone or use Paypal.I dont use Instagram either. Why are you assuming i do use those things? Your posting articles from a year ago. Think maybe that got fixed?
I think....and yes this is my Opinion, ...that it is nuts to do those things(Paypal & Banking) on your phone, but you ....obviously do so tell me how you trust doing those things?

Abazigal
Jun 13, 2012, 12:14 AM
Bingo! Now perhaps you can relate. Is it starting to be more clear now?

Well, if you could be bothered to type such a long and condescending post, why not, in the same time, simply explain your circumstance instead? I certainly don't see the harm in that.

When I post in my gaming forums, and if I am unable to supply a relevant link or quote for any reason, I will just state it out loud. Write that I regret that I cannot provide said information (eg: I may not have the info on hand to countercheck, am rushing for a class, or simply not convenient), but that I will do so at the earliest possible convenience (which I fully intend to do).

To me, it is not an issue of laziness, just that you are in a positon to make things easier for not just the addressee, but also any number of other users who also happen to be following said thread, rather than expect each and every one of them to go and carry out their own research.

Vegastouch
Jun 13, 2012, 12:29 AM
Vegas, you are one confused individual. I never said Apple "invented" Siri. I'm not sure where you got that from. Anyway, abazigal basically summed up what I was trying to tell you several posts ago. Please read and dwell on it. Thank you.

Directly no. But this is pretty close imo:

Here is something I don't get, why do people keep saying the new Galaxy is miles ahead of the iPhone? Samsung just copied the 4Ss functions and design. That spoken program is a copy of Siri.


Maybe im wrong but it looks to me that you are saying Siri is a Apple design and one of their functions...which it is their function, but they didnt design it at all.

If you didnt mean that, i appologize but many here dont seem to know that Apple didnt develope Siri. Perhaps i jumped the gun here.

Bottom line is that Apple has copied from others and copied from Android with the 4S but there is no lawsuit from Android or any Apple fans complaining about that. Its only when they think Apple was copied from someone else.

----------

Well, if you could be bothered to type such a long and condescending post, why not, in the same time, simply explain your circumstance instead? I certainly don't see the harm in that.

Again, i didnt have the time. There is a lot to counter there and it is in many threads if he just wanted to look. Its in any GS3 thread or any android vs iPhone thread. There are many of them. Look, many times posters are told to do a Google search. This isnt new when there is a lot of info/threads on what they are saying/asking.


Here is a link

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1374076&highlight=samsung+gs3

Here is another:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1375553&highlight=samsung+gs3

Another

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1360457&highlight=samsung+gs3

Thats just three links that took me about a minute to find and paste. Plenty of info in those.

DodgeV83
Jun 13, 2012, 12:56 AM
Everything you posted as an arguement is your OPINION! *Again, if you dont go to XDA and mingle around and get to see who is reputable, then your not doing your homework and since you obviously are unwilling to do those things, and in fact, dont do it then you cant relate. I dont need to know anything more than that.

Opinion! I get it, you wont try it. I dont care what type of arguement you want here. Its just your opinion that doing those things isnt safe...FOR YOU! If your scared to root your phone and try different things, great! Im not.

And once again, i dont do my banking on my phone or use Paypal.I dont use Instagram either. Why are you assuming i do use those things? Your posting articles from a year ago. Think maybe that got fixed?
*I think....and yes this is my Opinion, ...that it is nuts to do those things(Paypal & Banking) on your phone, but you ....obviously do so tell me how you trust doing those things?

I'm sorry VegasTouch, but your recent posts and use of logical fallacies to make your point, have shown you do not understand the difference between a fact and an opinion.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-fact-and-opinion.htm

Generally speaking, a fact is something that has actually happened or that is empirically true and can be supported by evidence. An opinion is a belief; it is normally subjective, meaning that it can vary based on a person's perspective, emotions, or individual understanding of something. For example, biological differences between males and females are a fact, while a preference for one gender over the other is opinion.

Definition of opinion:

http://www.google.com/search?q=definition+opinion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Definition of fact:

http://www.google.com/search?q=definition+opinion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&biw=1024&bih=672&q=definition+fact&oq=definition+fact

A thing that is indisputably the case.

It is a fact that in terms of frequency of updates, timeliness of updates, and how long the devices a supported with updates, iOS wins. This is a hard number, not an opinion. This is as much opinion as 2+2 = 4 is an opinion.

Definition of security:

http://www.google.com/search?q=definition+security&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

Freedom from risk or danger; safety.

Examples of computer insecurity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_insecurity

Trojans, viruses, rootkits, key loggers.

It is a fact that installing custom ROMs increases the risk of installing Trojans, viruses, rootkits and keyloggers, it therefore compromises the security of the device.

This is not an opinion, my personal view of ROMs do not change the definition of the words used above. You personally thinking the additional risk is acceptable, does not translate to your actions not compromising the security of your device.

My last claim is completely technical. Technically, it is a fact that you are more at risk of Trojan Horses, Rootkits and undetectable Malware, when replacing your entire operating system with unverified code, than when running an unverified .exe file. This is technically just how operating systems work, I'm not sure which part of this you believe to be my opinion.

SprSynJn
Jun 13, 2012, 12:58 AM
Vegas, I think you read too much into my posts. What I said makes absolutely no reference to who made what first. What I said, which is blatantly obvious I'd think, is that Samsung copied the program. What I was implying was that people praised it as innovation for the Android platform, yet it's been on iOS well before. That was reference to someone saying that Android is light years ahead of iOS. Just to clarify, no one is ahead of anyone as far as I'm concerned. All that is offered on Android is cosmetic changes that Apple does not prefer on their phones or tablets.

For example, people note that notifications on iOS are a backwards step compared to what is on Android. I simply disagree. I think they're done much better on iOS, even on the iPad. That's preference though. I also think how Android 4.0 does that little animation when you shut off the screen is a very nice addition that would look great on iOS. Each to their own. People really should stop saying Apple is "always late to the party" and Android is "what's innovating" and all that nonsense.

Thank you for the links by the way.

mrsir2009
Jun 13, 2012, 01:18 AM
They got my money for a "desktop replacement" tablet a mere two years ago. It is now worth as much as a doorstopper. The second hand value is about $250 for a 64gb wifi model where I live, and that was before the announcement that it will no longer get iOS updates. Expect that to drop further.

Just because it can't get the latest iOS operating system doesn't mean it's a doorstop. Far from it. What do you want to do on your iPad 1 that you can't do with iOS5? Personally I'd be happy to go with iOS5 on my iPhone 4S forever. I'm not too fussed by iOS6.

gpat
Jun 13, 2012, 01:49 AM
2. Cut all my losses (the $980 for the iPad and the $1000 in iOS software) and leave for Android, where this kind of pure rat-behavior will never happen (since you can always manually upgrade devices and will NEVER be left in the dust - note that I am NOT talking about official upgrades here, I mean installing the latest vanilla Android). Excellent choice, except that it means a huge loss in software costs and time, sigh.


About this one:
Don't think that you can just root your Android phone and install Vanilla android. It's not like that. A custom ROM with vanilla Android requires an enormous amount of effort, reverse engineering, work, and coding by programmers with BIG balls. I didn't have CyanogenMod (which is a custom rom with stock Android for the extent of this discussion) fully working on my Galaxy S2 (International version) until Samsung released its official Android upgrade AND its sources, because before that it had LOTS of issues, including video recording/playback not working, battery draining, and HW video acceleration not working. It still has a lot of issues, including TV-out not working, worse battery compared to the Samsung firmware, and the accelerometer freaking out sometimes, and still it featured weeks of work from highly experienced developers, which achieved something useful only after Samsung did a lot of job.

You can't simply void an Android phone of its crap and expect it to work like you do with e.g. a Windows 7 PC. I'm telling all of this to you as an insider.

roxxette
Jun 13, 2012, 01:56 AM
Fragments ?

http://img.tapatalk.com/ba068cc0-398c-c77d.jpg

gpat
Jun 13, 2012, 01:58 AM
ces?

Did you know that EVERY iOS version works with EVERY version EVER of the iPhone/iPad hardware?

Did you know that iOS 6 could run on the iPhone 1?

All it takes is a small hack of the firmware to remove the artificial installation lock and allow it to be installed on an older device.


Please provide a source for this.

cjmillsnun
Jun 13, 2012, 09:58 AM
Everything you posted as an arguement is your OPINION! Again, if you dont go to XDA and mingle around and get to see who is reputable, then your not doing your homework and since you obviously are unwilling to do those things, and in fact, dont do it then you cant relate. I dont need to know anything more than that.

Opinion! I get it, you wont try it. I dont care what type of arguement you want here. Its just your opinion that doing those things isnt safe...FOR YOU! If your scared to root your phone and try different things, great! Im not.

And once again, i dont do my banking on my phone or use Paypal.I dont use Instagram either. Why are you assuming i do use those things? Your posting articles from a year ago. Think maybe that got fixed?
I think....and yes this is my Opinion, ...that it is nuts to do those things(Paypal & Banking) on your phone, but you ....obviously do so tell me how you trust doing those things?

Do you use email on your phone?

if so, this is the one password you really don't want to be grabbed. It should be your most secure password of all. The reason, it is where do all your other passwords get sent to?. This alone is a reason to run STOCK firmware and nothing else.

IMO banking and paypal are far safer done on something like an iPad or an iPhone (non jailbroken/rooted/custom firmware) than a Windows PC or a Mac. The web browser runs in its own sandboxed environment, and as long as you're using a SSL connection (and either 3G or encrypted WiFi), it's totally encrypted.

Flash or Java and other browser plugins are notorious for exploits, and the iPad/iPhone don't support them. Automatically you are more secure.

Vegastouch
Jun 13, 2012, 09:03 PM
I'm sorry VegasTouch, but your recent posts and use of logical fallacies to make your point, have shown you do not understand the difference between a fact and an opinion.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-fact-and-opinion.htm



Definition of opinion:

http://www.google.com/search?q=definition+opinion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari



Definition of fact:

http://www.google.com/search?q=definition+opinion&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#sclient=tablet-gws&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&biw=1024&bih=672&q=definition+fact&oq=definition+fact



It is a fact that in terms of frequency of updates, timeliness of updates, and how long the devices a supported with updates, iOS wins. This is a hard number, not an opinion. This is as much opinion as 2+2 = 4 is an opinion.

Definition of security:

http://www.google.com/search?q=definition+security&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari



Examples of computer insecurity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_insecurity



It is a fact that installing custom ROMs increases the risk of installing Trojans, viruses, rootkits and keyloggers, it therefore compromises the security of the device.

This is not an opinion, my personal view of ROMs do not change the definition of the words used above. You personally thinking the additional risk is acceptable, does not translate to your actions not compromising the security of your device.

My last claim is completely technical. Technically, it is a fact that you are more at risk of Trojan Horses, Rootkits and undetectable Malware, when replacing your entire operating system with unverified code, than when running an unverified .exe file. This is technically just how operating systems work, I'm not sure which part of this you believe to be my opinion.

Wow, when you said you were a geek, you werent kidding but dude much of this is a waste of time. You are to literal for your own good.

So...ill address a few things(dont know why im wasting my time).


It is a fact that in terms of frequency of updates, timeliness of updates, and how long the devices a supported with updates, iOS wins. This is a hard number, not an opinion. This is as much opinion as 2+2 = 4 is an opinion.

Is this what this is all about? You want to win to feel better about your phone? Apple has one phone It gets updated....once a year with a major update. So? Is that something extraordinary?
Android gets major OS's twice a year and the flagship phones get them. Not all the cheaper ones do. If you want them, you need to get a higher end phone and you will get huge updates, not weak sauce ones that Apple has been coming out with the past TWO years.

But, you win if it makes you feel better. It doesnt bother me. Its not about winning for me. Its about what you like better and i like Android better....for my phone with what both platforms offer.

It is a fact that installing custom ROMs increases the risk of installing Trojans, viruses, rootkits and keyloggers, it therefore compromises the security of the device.

Technically,... you can say that but i know NO ONE that has gotton those things from where i go. Until you can show me a FACT that there was a Trojan or a Virus that came from the devs that do Samsung ROM's at XDA ...you have NO FACTS, didnt show any in this regard but want credit for posting what the definition of a fact is? Your lame definitions links are useless.
Im only saying it is possible but Any Dev doing crap like that would be reported and banned and that isnt what they are there for but your more than welcome to show me where a Dev there has made things that gave Trojans and Virus' at the Samsung section. I installed that Security app that also scans for virus and malware that was free that i posted before(Lookout) and after using it, my phone has no issues and ive had it two years. It scans everything immediately(Apps and such) after i install it.

So again i will repeat, you havent done it, havent been to the development site, havent seen what they do, havent been involved so you acting like this is some ROM that i(and other who go there) am getting from Craigslist from some Joe who we know nothing about and i just answered his add saying he "made this great ROM please try it out"... and i/we downloaded it blindly is ridiculous. I am sorry but you are talking out of your behind on this one.

The XDA developers side of that site has been a great place and they have made some spectacular things so please...you have no clue what you are talking about other than to say it is more risky. Not everything you do is risk free but i this case, it is very small and if something isnt compatible...i know how to fix it and if i need help, there are plenty there who are more than willing to help.


This is not an opinion, my personal view of ROMs do not change the definition of the words used above. You personally thinking the additional risk is acceptable, does not translate to your actions not compromising the security of your device.

What do you care what i do with MY device? You just keep repeating yourself is all you do.

steviem
Jun 13, 2012, 10:15 PM
2. Cut all my losses (the $980 for the iPad and the $1000 in iOS software) and leave for Android, where this kind of pure rat-behavior will never happen (since you can always manually upgrade devices and will NEVER be left in the dust - note that I am NOT talking about official upgrades here, I mean installing the latest vanilla Android). Excellent choice, except that it means a huge loss in software costs and time, sigh.


If you go for no. 2, might I suggest you only go for Nexus products. This way you know you'll have an unlocked boot loader and won't be stifled by the manufacturer when you want to get the latest update or root yourAndroid devices. It does mean you'll have to wait for a Nexus tablet, but perhaps there'll be on after Google IO. Not all Android devices are as open as we'd hope. However, your superior skill and knowledge over us mere mortals means you'll have your own AOSP derived build anyway... Hey, maybe you won't need to ditch your iPad's hardware, you could hack it to put ICS on there yourself :)

I did have the same feeling as you when the original iPhone didn't get a proper A2DP profile, it had Bluetooth on it, Apple was screwing little old me over! So I went with a Galaxy. Boy was that a mistake. Couldn't run any of the decent updates or apps that google gave, because the difference between 1.6 and 2.0 was pretty huge, Drakaz was trying hard, but couldn't get anywhere, so I bought a 3G a friend was selling and was happy when I could access my video again and didn't have to worry about rooting.

When the iPad was announced, I was smitten. I was working at an international publisher and one of the managers had visited New York and brought back an iPad. I'd used the iPad 4 times there and when it was released in the UK, I was at Westfield drinking free lattes and waiting to get my hands on my own one.

I did get tired of 2 devices, sold the iPhone and iPad in December that year and got a Galaxy Tab (the original 7). It could've been great if Samsung hadn't left it hamstrung with Touchwiz and a difficult method to reflash it. Sold it and got an Orange San Francisco (ZTE Blade) and kept my money for an iPad 2. That was actually my best Android phone. Next up, I moved to the US. My new work got me an ipad 2 for a very good price. My wife added me to her family plan on Sprint and all they had was the Epic 4G. Yuck. Touchwiz did it again. GPS was poor on it, battery life, unacceptable even with just 3G running. A leaked build of Gingerbread helped a little, but Apple announce the iPhone on Sprint and I went and laid down $600 (inc tax) on an iPhone 4. A week later, Samsung released their Gingerbread build for the Epic 4G, but it really was too little, too late.

My intention now is to upgrade on every other generation for my iPad and iPhone. I have too much invested in the ecosystem now to be so bitchy about apple's upgrade cycle. Your iPad hasn't mysteriously stopped working, do you even have iOS 6 installed?

DodgeV83
Jun 13, 2012, 11:08 PM
Wow, when you said you were a geek, you werent kidding but dude much of this is a waste of time. You are to literal for your own good.

So...ill address a few things(dont know why im wasting my time).




Is this what this is all about? You want to win to feel better about your phone? Apple has one phone It gets updated....once a year with a major update. So? Is that something extraordinary?
Android gets major OS's twice a year and the flagship phones get them. Not all the cheaper ones do. If you want them, you need to get a higher end phone and you will get huge updates, not weak sauce ones that Apple has been coming out with the past TWO years.

But, you win if it makes you feel better. It doesnt bother me. Its not about winning for me. Its about what you like better and i like Android better....for my phone with what both platforms offer.



Technically,... you can say that but i know NO ONE that has gotton those things from where i go. Until you can show me a FACT that there was a Trojan or a Virus that came from the devs that do Samsung ROM's at XDA ...you have NO FACTS, didnt show any in this regard but want credit for posting what the definition of a fact is? Your lame definitions links are useless.
Im only saying it is possible but Any Dev doing crap like that would be reported and banned and that isnt what they are there for but your more than welcome to show me where a Dev there has made things that gave Trojans and Virus' at the Samsung section. I installed that Security app that also scans for virus and malware that was free that i posted before(Lookout) and after using it, my phone has no issues and ive had it two years. It scans everything immediately(Apps and such) after i install it.

So again i will repeat, you havent done it, havent been to the development site, havent seen what they do, havent been involved so you acting like this is some ROM that i(and other who go there) am getting from Craigslist from some Joe who we know nothing about and i just answered his add saying he "made this great ROM please try it out"... and i/we downloaded it blindly is ridiculous. I am sorry but you are talking out of your behind on this one.

The XDA developers side of that site has been a great place and they have made some spectacular things so please...you have no clue what you are talking about other than to say it is more risky. Not everything you do is risk free but i this case, it is very small and if something isnt compatible...i know how to fix it and if i need help, there are plenty there who are more than willing to help.




What do you care what i do with MY device? You just keep repeating yourself is all you do.

The debate was never about what you do with your device, nor was it about my feelings, nor your assumptions about which websites I have visited. It wasn't about you personally knowing someone who has contracted malware from a specific site, nor any specific devs at XDA, nor security apps. It wasn't about some XDA developers doing great things, nor your knowing how to fix problems, nor how many people are willing to help if something goes wrong.

The debate was about the accuracy of my statements, which you now admit were correct.

Vegastouch
Jun 14, 2012, 12:56 AM
The debate was never about what you do with your device, nor was it about my feelings, nor your assumptions about which websites I have visited. It wasn't about you personally knowing someone who has contracted malware from a specific site, nor any specific devs at XDA, nor security apps. It wasn't about some XDA developers doing great things, nor your knowing how to fix problems, nor how many people are willing to help if something goes wrong.

The debate was about the accuracy of my statements, which you now admit were correct.
Is that what I did? Lol. You still haven't presented any facts for where I go to get custom roms. I just said it was possible but it's possible to get a virus from iTunes App store as well.
But if it means I don't have to read your repetitive posts any longer, then by all means you can be the winner..... Of whatever it is your seeking.