Career Advice

[stubeeef]

Many here are aware of my pilot job.

I am considering, hoping for, a local sales rep position selling medical devices.

Is any one here doing that? We have a diverse community, so hoping someone is, or their spouse,.....

I know the hours will be a min of 70/wk but the pay is looking like low 100's in 2-4 yrs.

Decent starting pay, mid 60's, a car, and the ususal things like cell phone and laptop. I will be taking over a 20k pay cut to start, already have company ph and laptop, don't need a car. So it is more the opportunity and some stability I seek. I love sales, and after a day with a local rep that is moving up, I really want it.

Any advice and thoughts are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

[EJBasile]

Many here are aware of my pilot job.

I am considering, hoping for, a local sales rep position selling medical devices.

Is any one here doing that? We have a diverse community, so hoping someone is, or their spouse,.....

I know the hours will be a min of 70/wk but the pay is looking like low 100's in 2-4 yrs.

Decent starting pay, mid 60's, a car, and the ususal things like cell phone and laptop. I will be taking over a 20k pay cut to start, already have company ph and laptop, don't need a car. So it is more the opportunity and some stability I seek. I love sales, and after a day with a local rep that is moving up, I really want it.

Any advice and thoughts are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

What kind of medical device will you be selling?

I know a bunch of people in Rx marketing and they all seem to be doing quite well. It seems like you have a pretty good deal, making pretty good money- especially if you stick with the job. The phone and computer- no big deal, but company cars I think are a good thing. Why waste the life of your own car. A friend of mine has to commute 1.5hrs to work everyday- he has a very high position is his company but they "don't give out company cars" so he bought a Passat. Also, be sure you want to work 70hrs a week- Thats a lot.

If its a position you really want then definatly go for it. I work in the medical field and I love it (general surgeon), I work a lot of hours (being on call) but if your doing something you enjoy its not too bad.

[jefhatfield]

i have a relative that sells office equipment, fully on commission...he could do salary but makes four times more if its purely commission from his company

if you are good, really good, then forget a limiting salary and benefits package (even if it's good), because the sky is the limit for commission only jobs like selling any goods from equipment to liqour, to services

i knew a phone translator who had a choice to work for 35k a year with benefits on the phone from his house, or for 33 to 50 dollars an hour freelance...guess which one he took?

commission only jobs are not heavily advertised but the good salespeople make baseball player money, a million or more, and most of the people in this field, not considered professional for some stupid reason, are only high school graduates

i studied in college for an hr degree and this 40-ish man sat next to me and he wanted an hr degree "just for the fun of it"...but through his life he managed to get a job placing ceo caliber people into companies and taking a commission for his match making services...one day before class, he told me he had a "good day" and he made 40k on one phone call...but of course, it took years of developing relationships with comapnies and workers in order to be in a position to be able to make those matches...think of him as a "jerry mcquire" for corporations being an agent to high level employees seeking companies and vice versa

in the end, very few people have what it takes to have no tether and live off of commission only and spend the first few months to the first few years making little or nothing and many very successful commission only salespeople either lived with their parents or had an understanding/working spouse to cover for the slow times

if you get into your job and they offer 1) salary/benefits/small commission vs. 2) a commission only job with a higher rate of commission, go for the gusto and take the latter and realize that almost all earned wealth comes from delayed gratification and taking the road less traveled

[zelmo]

I work in a completely different field (commercial printing), but I can tell you that sales is one area where the amount of money you can make is in direct proportion to how much energy and time you are willing to invest. We have one guy here who toiled for 60-70 hours a week for maybe three years, just getting by. Ultimately, all that effort paid off and he blossomed "overnight" into a top tier print salesman. Gross sales went from maybe $400,000/year to over $3,500,000 in a matter of about months. FYI - our sales staff averages a 10% yield on gross sales.

Me, I'm not tolerant enough of people to work in sales successfully, but it sounds like something you want to do. Go for it.

[stubeeef]

the position is selling GI endoscopy products, the Company is Wilson Cook Medical (http://www.wilsoncook.com/) .

I have the inside track, the job was offered before but couldn't take the pay cut then, now I can.

I am on a first name basis with the President and all the Vice Presidents of the company, I am a Captain on their Jet. I have worked there 3.7yrs so far. I really like the people a lot. The area is my home town, so this could be a fabulous opportunity for me.
The hours do not bother me, more work, more pay. Sounds OK. And I really enjoy the casual conversations as well as the technical.
I have buddies at Phizer and Merck, both say do it, but I wanted some inside device salesman info from someone here as well. And from the Dr's too! Thanks.

[Nickygoat]

I can't offer any advice but I am curious as to why you want to quit your flying job to go for a sales job? Yes I know the money's better but I'm assuming it's more than that. Is flying no longer a viable option? Just curious - feel free to ignore it :)

[apple2991]

I have no basis for this, but I say go for it.

[wordmunger]

How easy is it to get back into flying? Sales is a thankless job, and if you don't succeed, you will be discarded like a 2-year-old Dell. If you're successful, you'll definitely be making big bucks, but if you're not, you better have a backup plan.

[atari1356]

I can't offer any advice but I am curious as to why you want to quit your flying job to go for a sales job? Yes I know the money's better but I'm assuming it's more than that. Is flying no longer a viable option? Just curious - feel free to ignore it :)

I'm curious about this too... are you doing it just for the potential of increased income? Or because you really want to do sales instead of piloting an airplane? Flying an airplane certainly seems a bit more fun and glamorous than selling medical supplies.

If it's because you want to do sales, then go for it.

If it's because you want more money... I say money isn't everything, and that's a lot of hours to work.

[jsw]

My wife's an RN, and a couple of her friends are in pharmaceutical sales. Not exactly like medical device sales, but close enough, I suppose. They are both good at it, love it, and make great money doing it.

However, as mentioned, the hours are long, and you need to love sales. On the plus side, you're selling to well-educated people with the money to buy your product... but they (her friends) say that doctors often don't tend to be the most friendly people and are typically harder to "sell" on something than "normal folk".

My worthless opinion: if you like sales, and you believe in the product(s) you'd be selling, I say go for it - you could always get back into flying, but sometimes a career change can be a wonderful thing, and you'd likely regret not trying it out.

[DarkNetworks]

I'm curious about this too... are you doing it just for the potential of increased income? Or because you really want to do sales instead of piloting an airplane? Flying an airplane certainly seems a bit more fun and glamorous than selling medical supplies.

If it's because you want to do sales, then go for it.

If it's because you want more money... I say money isn't everything, and that's a lot of hours to work.

"Flying an airplane certainly seems a bit more fun and glamorous than selling medical supplies." i totally agree with this... :D

[stubeeef]

the jet I fly was nearly taken back to the home office 3 times before I took the job. If guidant had completed the buyout of our company the jet would have been moved to Indianapolis, where I would be looking at no job, cause they are being bought out by J&J. Corp pilots have little security in buyouts or mergers. We define synergy, at 2 million a year on the budget, they are expensive tools, especially if the aquiring company already has a flight dept.
There are particulars about our company that make the flight dept more vunerable as the years go by, and don't want to discuss it now, just believe it.
I am on a tether, 1 hour radius without permission, 365 days a year. Want to plan a weekend trip? Better not end up having to fly. while pop-up trips are rare, they happen. Also, I have 0 scheduled days off for Dr, Dentist, etc. You have to ask for time off, and if things get busy, you cancel the appt.
I have no opportunity for advancement over the next 5 years, even if the plane stays here.
I have little to no opportunity at making the money I want to make.
I have had sales jobs and been successful. I had to go back to flying because I was legislated out of my last self-employed sales job, while expecting our 3 kid.
The company has an outstanding reputation for great products and quality, as well as price (we are not the cheapest). The managers that I know of, as well as the executives are great people. My wife is apprehensive but very, very supportive.
This position offers me 2 important things I don't have now. STABILITY and OPPPORTUNITY. I work lots of hours on the side right now, I half own some storage units, and work with the Navy Reserves. So I am used to a long day.
I am very motived, 3 daughters who will need college, and weddings. And the dream of retirement.
I love sales, and when people talk to me about flying, I say"It's cause I don't want to dig ditches." I enjoy it most times, despise it others. I am very over it.

[wordmunger]

the jet I fly was nearly taken back to the home office 3 times before I took the job. If guidant had completed the buyout of our company the jet would have been moved to Indianapolis, where I would be looking at no job, cause they are being bought out by J&J. Corp pilots have little security in buyouts or mergers. We define synergy, at 2 million a year on the budget, they are expensive tools, especially if the aquiring company already has a flight dept.
There are particulars about our company that make the flight dept more vunerable as the years go by, and don't want to discuss it now, just believe it.
I am on a tether, 1 hour radius without permission, 365 days a year. Want to plan a weekend trip? Better not end up having to fly. while pop-up trips are rare, they happen. Also, I have 0 scheduled days off for Dr, Dentist, etc. You have to ask for time off, and if things get busy, you cancel the appt.
I have no opportunity for advancement over the next 5 years, even if the plane stays here.
I have little to no opportunity at making the money I want to make.
I have had sales jobs and been successful. I had to go back to flying because I was legislated out of my last self-employed sales job, while expecting our 3 kid.
The company has an outstanding reputation for great products and quality, as well as price (we are not the cheapest). The managers that I know of, as well as the executives are great people. My wife is apprehensive but very, very supportive.
This position offers me 2 important things I don't have now. STABILITY and OPPPORTUNITY. I work lots of hours on the side right now, I half own some storage units, and work with the Navy Reserves. So I am used to a long day.
I am very motived, 3 daughters who will need college, and weddings. And the dream of retirement.
I love sales, and when people talk to me about flying, I say"It's cause I don't want to dig ditches." I enjoy it most times, despise it others. I am very over it.

Well, then.

It looks like you've answered your own question.

[stubeeef]

Well, then.

It looks like you've answered your own question.
Ignorance is bliss. So I am hoping that someone here can more enlighten me as to the pitfalls, as well as peaks, from a 1st person perspective.

[wordmunger]

Ignorance is bliss. So I am hoping that someone here can more enlighten me as to the pitfalls, as well as peaks, from a 1st person perspective.

Well, I can't give you first person, but our neighbor two doors down got a job in medical sales. She was soon driving a Mercedes, and then moved to a nicer neighborhood. Another friend in hospital sales recently completed a renovation of her house that doubled its size.

[stubeeef]

Well, I can't give you first person, but our neighbor two doors down got a job in medical sales. She was soon driving a Mercedes, and then moved to a nicer neighborhood. Another friend in hospital sales recently completed a renovation of her house that doubled its size.

Now that is a nice trend! :p

[EJBasile]

I know of Wilson-Cook, I use some of there products at work.

You seem to really like this job oppertunity and it sounds like a good one to me.

I say go for it!

Good Luck.

[CanadaRAM]

It would help if you have at least a BSc in some Bio or health field. Most sales jobs I see advertised (I do consulting work for a biotech) are insisting on this, or a Masters.

[stubeeef]

Associate of Science, Chemistry, Organic Chemistry, Biology, Physiology, Calculus I & II, Zoology.

Bachelor of Science; Business Administration, UNC-Chapel Hill (almost got a 2nd major in Economics, but didn't want to stay another semester, and they don't give minors).

[EGT]

the jet I fly was nearly taken back to the home office 3 times before I took the job. If guidant had completed the buyout of our company the jet would have been moved to Indianapolis, where I would be looking at no job, cause they are being bought out by J&J. Corp pilots have little security in buyouts or mergers. We define synergy, at 2 million a year on the budget, they are expensive tools, especially if the aquiring company already has a flight dept.
There are particulars about our company that make the flight dept more vunerable as the years go by, and don't want to discuss it now, just believe it.
I am on a tether, 1 hour radius without permission, 365 days a year. Want to plan a weekend trip? Better not end up having to fly. while pop-up trips are rare, they happen. Also, I have 0 scheduled days off for Dr, Dentist, etc. You have to ask for time off, and if things get busy, you cancel the appt.
I have no opportunity for advancement over the next 5 years, even if the plane stays here.
I have little to no opportunity at making the money I want to make.
I have had sales jobs and been successful. I had to go back to flying because I was legislated out of my last self-employed sales job, while expecting our 3 kid.
The company has an outstanding reputation for great products and quality, as well as price (we are not the cheapest). The managers that I know of, as well as the executives are great people. My wife is apprehensive but very, very supportive.
This position offers me 2 important things I don't have now. STABILITY and OPPPORTUNITY. I work lots of hours on the side right now, I half own some storage units, and work with the Navy Reserves. So I am used to a long day.
I am very motived, 3 daughters who will need college, and weddings. And the dream of retirement.
I love sales, and when people talk to me about flying, I say"It's cause I don't want to dig ditches." I enjoy it most times, despise it others. I am very over it.

I can see your point, but are you absolutely sure about what you want to do? What about your license. I take it you won't be able to keep it current?

I'm at a set of cross roads myself and as it happens, flying was my chosen path for a very, VERY long time but alas, Murphy had a greater part to play than i expected.

[MacDawg]

Good luck whatever course you take beeef
Starting over is never easy, but if it is something you love, it can be great

All the best to you

Woof, Woof - Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[corywoolf]

the position is selling GI endoscopy products, the Company is Wilson Cook Medical (http://www.wilsoncook.com/) .

I have the inside track, the job was offered before but couldn't take the pay cut then, now I can.

I am on a first name basis with the President and all the Vice Presidents of the company, I am a Captain on their Jet. I have worked there 3.7yrs so far. I really like the people a lot. The area is my home town, so this could be a fabulous opportunity for me.
The hours do not bother me, more work, more pay. Sounds OK. And I really enjoy the casual conversations as well as the technical.
I have buddies at Phizer and Merck, both say do it, but I wanted some inside device salesman info from someone here as well. And from the Dr's too! Thanks.


DOOOOO ITTTTTT!!!!! Yeah, it sounds like a great opportunity that could lead to a nice lifestyle, If you ever make too much money (no such thing I know) be sure to send me a nice powerbook!! No, but really, go for the job man.

[stubeeef]

One of 2 big interviews next week. Just had a ph con with regional manager who would have been my boss, if not for an upcoming shuffle of territories. It went very well. My summation? "Let me off my leash!"

Well here I go, down the rabbit hole. :p

[skubish]

I think you will find sales has no more freedom than your current job. You will find you are always away from home and never can plan Dr. appts, time off, etc. It will start out great, maybe get to work from home, 35hr/week, etc. Then next thing you know you will be spread to thin, 90hr/week, no freetime, no vacation, customers calling you all the time.

I think I would try to find another job as a pilot.

[stubeeef]

I think this job will be atleast 90 hours a week if I do it well.

[YS2003]

When you are in sales, don't take rejections as a personal rejection. You will see so many diferent people (some nice, some not nice, and some nasty). I am in sales; if you want to get ahead, there is no 8 to 5:30 work hours. It will be any time of the day (I wake up 4:30 a.m. every day getting ready for work and go home around 8 to 10 p.m. every day). Sometimes, you need to work when your competition is out on vacations, slacking, or sleeping, if you want to be a highly productive sales person.

[jefhatfield]

I think this job will be atleast 90 hours a week if I do it well.

those big hours, sometimes typical in commission and cold call sales, is what makes so many people wash out

i had a friend, an msee, who got promoted from engineer to sales engineer (for more money) but he literally had to pick up a phone book, seek out possible leads, and make calls...and when he finished the phone book some weeks later, he made those calls again and started at the beginning of the phone book...it's fishing but it can certainly pay really well

another friend of mine, also with his master's in engineering, got promoted up from junior engineer into sales engineering at toshiba and had to rely on some similar hard sell tactics

in both cases, i think the engineers stepped down and realized that with big money comes big stress and big hours...for most of us from street sweepers making small money to sales engineers making six digits, the more you work, the more you tend to get paid whether you get paid mininum wage or make commission only on sales

when i was a kid i worked in my parents' store and when times were hopping i got a guaranteed hourly wage plus commission, but on slow days, i only got commission and this made me very, very good at selling anything to anybody whether they needed it or not ;)...but to be honest, i would never do that high pressure sales thing again...and i can't imagine someone working 90 hours, especially in high pressure, rejection-filled, sales

i knew guys in nightclubs who looked like hell but always got the girls because they took the sales approach and got rejected more than most guys...but they asked girls out way more and in time, they had more dates and it would get so bad...he he...that beautiful girls were actually out in the parking lot of this fashionable club or that fashionable club having fistfights over guys like this (who still often treated them terribly but got their "name" out hitting on every woman in sight and flattering them with cheap sales tactics)...i am sure in their adulthood, many of these men got into sales and some have probably become millionaires

[srs]

My wife is a sales rep for a large, international medical supply corporation. Specifically, she sells medical education equipment. I've been involved in medicine for 15 years as a clinical practioner, educator, and now a writer, so between both my own and my wife's experience, I may be able to offer some informed opinion.

Couple of things on comments on other posts in the thread.. medical equipment sales is not the same as pharm sales. A pharm job is a cakewalk, as the products really sell themselves, for the most part. Generally speaking, you will have to work harder selling equipment than you do selling meds to make the same amount of money. I also think that it is easier to "pitch" a piece of equipment to a physician than it is to pitch a medication.

Cook, by the way, is a respected company, and has a lot of great equipment, IMO. That being said, I am not familliar with their endoscopy equipment, not my specialty!

The bad side of medical sales:
You did not mention how big your area is, but my guess would be it's a couple of states. Have a family? Well, you have a choice. You could choose to make your family a priority and spend a lot of time at home with them, phone glued to your ear and communicating via email, not traveling often visiting with coustomers and still make a living, probably in the 80's. Or, you can choose to make your job and $$ a priority and spend as much time as you want on the road, sky's the limit. Whichever route you choose, you still have to make initial face-to-face contact with all of the big spenders in your sales area (identified, hopefully, by the person you are replacing) to ensure that the lucrative relationship continues when you take over.

Be prepared to deal with a lot of attitude, especially from physicians, RN's, PA's who will pick your lack of clinical experience apart. It's hard to walk in to an office and impress clinicians if you do not have a clinical background. I'm a pretty nice guy, but while I was in a position to make decisions on purchases my methodology for interacting with slaesfolks was simple; I asked a few questions right off the bat to acertain their knowledge base of the product, the procedures involved with their product, and the area of medicine in which their product was used. If they semmed knowledgeable, I gave them my time. If not, I listened for a few minutes, politely got myself out of the meeting, and researched the product myself without their input. A lot, and I mean a lot, of potential customers will not be as nice. Cook will, of course, put you through a training program and give you info material, but the preparation is usually very superficial. Simply put, you had better know your poop, and this can be hard without a cliinical background.

The demands on your schedule will not be as bad as your pilot job, but are a close runner up. You will spend many weekends at conferences, and many times your employer will call up with "joe blow is sick and can't make the Peoria conference, make travel plans and see you tomorrow!" and you are expected to shuck your tail to wherever. Teamwork, baby.

You must always be available by phone and email to your customers and respond to all messages immediately. Very often, especially when so many expensive purchases aere made with grants, a lack of preparation on your customers part creates an emergency for you (at least that's how they see it). Very often, purchase orders must be written and deals closed "NOW!" for the sale to go through, and a days delay might be the difference between sale versus no go.

In addition, frequent travel and meetings = a lot of lunches and late dinners = sloppy eating. Combined with the lack of exercise you will have on the road, keeping the weight off can be hard!

The good side of medical sales:
If you like to travel, and you have a large salea area, you can visit a lot of cool places. Set up a bunch of appointments in and around the destination of your choice, give yourself a day or two for leisure activity, and you have a nice little get away on the company dime.

The money, even if you choose to not travel a lot, is good.

Providing you don't have an obligation you cannot get out of, it's pretty easy to take a few days off for yourself. That being said, you should check your email daily and always be available by phone to your inside sales person, and somehting may pop up that demands your attention.

You are not sitting behind a desk from 9-5, mon-fri, and despite the idiots you have to deal with, you will also be working with smart, energenic, hard-working people, and might even have fun!

And, Cook makes some great products, they would be a good company to represent.

Hope that this helps, sorry for any poor grammar and spelling but I'm in a hurry today!

[stubeeef]

You did not mention how big your area is, but my guess would be it's a couple of states. Have a family?
Western N Carolina, so will probably do 1 overnight per week, maybe 2 at first. Wife and 3 kids, and aviation is no picnic. (I'm a pilot now).

Be prepared to deal with a lot of attitude, especially from physicians, RN's, PA's who will pick your lack of clinical experience apart. It's hard to walk in to an office and impress clinicians if you do not have a clinical background. I'm a pretty nice guy, but while I was in a position to make decisions on purchases my methodology for interacting with slaesfolks was simple; I asked a few questions right off the bat to acertain their knowledge base of the product, the procedures involved with their product, and the area of medicine in which their product was used. If they semmed knowledgeable, I gave them my time. If not, I listened for a few minutes, politely got myself out of the meeting, and researched the product myself without their input. A lot, and I mean a lot, of potential customers will not be as nice. Cook will, of course, put you through a training program and give you info material, but the preparation is usually very superficial. Simply put, you had better know your poop, and this can be hard without a cliinical background.
I'm duley warned, I'm fairly bright, and understand we have a first rate training program. But I have not even played a dr on tv. Try getting in a cockpit with a huge attitude captain, that is lots of fun. You have to know your stuff and how to manipulate "mr know-it-all"

The demands on your schedule will not be as bad as your pilot job, but are a close runner up. You will spend many weekends at conferences, and many times your employer will call up with "joe blow is sick and can't make the Peoria conference, make travel plans and see you tomorrow!" and you are expected to shuck your tail to wherever. Teamwork, baby.
Noted. thanks

You must always be available by phone and email to your customers and respond to all messages immediately. Very often, especially when so many expensive purchases aere made with grants, a lack of preparation on your customers part creates an emergency for you (at least that's how they see it). Very often, purchase orders must be written and deals closed "NOW!" for the sale to go through, and a days delay might be the difference between sale versus no go.
Listen, I wear a ph 24/7 now. I have zero sched days off now, and get calls for hurry up lets go all the time.

In addition, frequent travel and meetings = a lot of lunches and late dinners = sloppy eating. Combined with the lack of exercise you will have on the road, keeping the weight off can be hard!
Eat at lots of resturants now, also candy machines. Good news, have lost 32 pounds in the last 50 days.

The good side of medical sales:
If you like to travel, and you have a large salea area, you can visit a lot of cool places. Set up a bunch of appointments in and around the destination of your choice, give yourself a day or two for leisure activity, and you have a nice little get away on the company dime.

The money, even if you choose to not travel a lot, is good.

Providing you don't have an obligation you cannot get out of, it's pretty easy to take a few days off for yourself. That being said, you should check your email daily and always be available by phone to your inside sales person, and somehting may pop up that demands your attention.

You are not sitting behind a desk from 9-5, mon-fri, and despite the idiots you have to deal with, you will also be working with smart, energenic, hard-working people, and might even have fun!

And, Cook makes some great products, they would be a good company to represent.

Hope that this helps, sorry for any poor grammar and spelling but I'm in a hurry today!

Thanks, I do ok $$ wise now, but somemore would help me and some others. The biggest change for me will be more time away from the home. I work 2.5 days a week now, so that will affect the kids, but as things get along, I'm hoping to get to schedule things so that I can get quality time with them at school.
The area is not as ridiculous as some in the west, so it should be easy to cover compared to most.
I enjoy bantar and witty bantar is most enjoyable, presently the people I work with are not the most intellictually challenging. They are not stupid by any means, just not the creme (of course neither am I).
The persons territory I am taking is being promoted to Territory Manager, lives in the heart of the area I will cover, he will be a great asset to me.

turns out I nearly have a lock on the position, and after this next week on vacation, I have 2 more interviews with people I know.
With 4 yrs at the company already, I will likely get a nice salary (lower than mine now though).
I should start training by the end of August if all goes well.

Thank you SRS, very much for your ensightful post!

[superbovine]

I think this job will be atleast 90 hours a week if I do it well.

good sales people spend 80% of their time with relationships and 20% of their time with sales. it sounds like you are on the right track though.

[jefhatfield]

I enjoy bantar and witty bantar is most enjoyable, presently the people I work with are not the most intellictually challenging. They are not stupid by any means, just not the creme (of course neither am I).


i know a few pilots, civilian and military, and privately they have said the same thing, too...he he...that most pilots can be quite stupid outside of flying airplanes

what gives? i always thought pilots were at least as smart as other highly paid professionals like doctors, dentists, architects, lawyers, etc

sometimes the first thing a pilot tells me about when i see them is how stupid the air force, their head boss, or their fellow pilots are...it's the same round of stories i heard from when i was a child and having always wanted to fly myself, it really put a damper on the whole airplane thing from the beginning

[iGary]

Screw that, stu.

You keep flying. 90 hours a week - do you want to see your kids - ever?

You already know the answer to this.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I know how you are wired, and this 90 hours a week thing swouldn't click with you and the family life.

Good luck in whatever you do, though, friend.

[stubeeef]

Thanks man, but it is probably more 70 hours, 90 if you include overnight hours.
It also turns out they may leave my salary alone, which would really mean a nice raise.
I have done 55+ hour a week jobs no problem, it is more about my fullfillment than the hours. Right now I feel very wasted.

I have met some very interesting pilots, some that are absolutely brilliant, others cromagnum. The brilliant are few and far between. There is also something about the egos of pilots that rubs me more often than not. I can not stand know-it-alls, they exist in every field, and it is fun to calmly correct them though.

While I may get stuck between, "nothing ventured nothing gained" and "becareful what you wish for", I believe I am a good fit for this company (4 yrs with them now) and this job.

Side note, just bought 6 sales books at Barnes and Noble!

[Roger1]

Stubeef, I really think you should go for it. A few years back, I was in a similar situation. I had a job I didn't like, and had a opportunity for a new one. I took it. And I have not regretted it at all. If it doesn't work out, you can always find another job (I know, easier said than done). Good luck :)

[stubeeef]

Stubeef, I really think you should go for it. A few years back, I was in a similar situation. I had a job I didn't like, and had a opportunity for a new one. I took it. And I have not regretted it at all. If it doesn't work out, you can always find another job (I know, easier said than done). Good luck :)

Thanks, I think I am, going for it with a vengenace! Not going to be a salesman, but a problem solver! I really believe this will be a good fit for me professionally, do well in the field and opportunities abound at the corp offices, which happen to be right down the street.

Say a prayer for me though, I will need it!

[stubeeef]

Accepted the position Wed afternoon, got more $$ than expected by a sign amount, an upgraded car (buick rendezvous), and all my longevity!

Look out world!

[Roger1]

Do they have a branch in Michigan?? :D

[Baron58]

Ok, I know I'm coming in late on this.

I was never able to get a career in aviation started. Now, I have a decent job, OK money, career that I don't like, and have finally given up hoping that a flight position will ever come true. Knowing the crap that most pilots put up with, and the low incomes, it's not something that I can look forward to as 'better' any more. I was actually flying this morning (getting my Instrument Proficiency Check, and thinking about getting my multi-engine instructor certificate), and looked at a copy of 'PrivateAir' magazine (a fluff rag about corporate & private luxury flying) in the pilot lounge at the airport. For the first time, I wanted to *be* one of the rich guys sitting in the back, more than I wanted to *be* one of the guys flying them around. I guess it comes from being in management at work, and being a tier above the common staff herd.

I don't know for certain what I want to do next, but I'm tired of standing still, so I'm moving forward with doing "something", even if it turns out to be a fool's errand. This summer I've taken two general chemistry (103 and 104 level) courses. Got an 'A' in the first one, and will get a 'B' or an 'A' in the second one when it's over next week. This fall I'm taking Organic Chem. If I do OK in that, it's on to Bio, then the MCAT. I don't wanna take the MCAT, or go to med school at my age, or get in debt for years, or work in medicine at all, really.... but I don't want to look back and wish that I'd tried. This way, if I try and and *decide* that I don't want to do this, I can live with that, and I'll go for an MBA instead, I guess.....

My brother-in-law was in medical media (video production, etc.) for years, then quit as part of a hospital merger and went into real estate. He hasn't been successful. He's a really intelligent, hard-working, personable guy, but either he sucks (which I doubt) or the market where he lives sucks (which I believe). He's been wanting to get into medical sales for years, but keeps getting turned down for lack of hard sales experience - apparently real estate doesn't count as sales experience. This week, he finally got offered a job. I think it sucks, but he's looking at it as a stepping-stone. It's for a company that reps pharma products, it's only 30 hours a week, there are no benefits at all, and the salary is only $24,000/year + quarterly bonuses of undisclosed amount.

So...... If you're unhappy with what you do, and would like to make the move into sales, and the sales actually does offer financial benefit, go for it. I used to think people were nuts for wanting to give up flight positions, but now I understand it a bit more. I love flying, but hate the aviation industry (pilots will understand exactly what I mean). I'm another one who doesn't get along with most pilots outside of the cockpit. It's an industry which seems to attract a certain type of person, and I don't fit their groupthink. I've always regreted not having gotten a flight job right after college. Now, I think I was probably lucky, in a painful sort of way.

:(

[stubeeef]

you are dead on!

the other real problem with being a pilot, the next job you start at the bottom again. Sales and Biz world is not that way, unless you are not that good.

I too want to be the guy in the back, and in a few years I will be there!

[Baron58]

I have met some very interesting pilots, some that are absolutely brilliant, others cromagnum. The brilliant are few and far between. There is also something about the egos of pilots that rubs me more often than not. I can not stand know-it-alls, they exist in every field, and it is fun to calmly correct them though.


Q: If you take a pilot, and grind him up into a powder, and dust off all the bullshiat, what do you have left?

A: A pair of sunglasses and a big watch.


As for know-it-alls.... that's what I hate most about aviation. Every instructor speaks authoritatively, and passes on their misconceptions to their students. When you try to argue with them you get shouted down because THEY'RE the almighty freakin' instructor, and you're the cash cow that they milk until they sign you off. You see, all regulations are in Title 14 of the US Code of Federal Regulations (14CFR). They're written in Federal legalese, which I find to be perfectly clear, readable and unambiguous (I've been told I'd make a good lawyer). However, most pilots/instructors can't understand precise, grammatical, properly-punctuated English, particularly when it contains complex concepts. I don't even bother to argue with them about how to log 'cross-country' or 'pilot-in-command' time anymore, or the difference between BEING pilot-in-command and LOGGING pilot-in-command.

I just had an instructor tell me that a response to your callsign was clearance to enter Class B airspace. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Class C, yes, but Class B explicitly requires the phrase "<callsign> cleared into the Class B airspace". He argued that unless they tell you to "stand by", it's OK to enter the Class B. I stopped everything until he got the Chief Instructor on the phone who confirmed what I said, cited the regs, and reamed the instructor a new one.

Now today, he insisted (and drew illustrations to "prove" his position) that with a failed engine, the 3deg - 5deg bank towards the good engine and 'split ball' rudder force PUTS THE AIRCRAFT INTO A SLIP (and he drew an angled relative wind), and that this was the normal failed-engine situation. :eek: :mad: :eek: :mad: OMG - I'm so pissed at this, I'm going to get the Chief Instructor involved (again). If you DON'T "raise the dead and split the ball" the aircraft is in a slip. Applying the corrections reduces drag by ELIMINATING the slip, using a resultant lift vector to correct for the drag.

See:
http://142.26.194.131/aerodynamics1/Multi/Page3.html
or:
http://www.av8n.com/how/htm/multi.html#fig-1out-rudder

This is not an isolated occurance. With only one exception, every instructor I've ever flown with has been a wealth of misinformation. One instructor says you absolutely, positively have to do it this way. The next instructor says 'wtf are do you doing that for - you clearly don't know what you're doing". One of them is right, one is wrong. I now only rely on myself to determine which is right.

[stubeeef]

you need to drop that guy like a bad habit, These are just the things you mention, not the ones you are not, nore the ones you may not be aware of either.
sit with the Cheif IP, demand some credit, and get a real instructor! Give the guy a link to sportys where he can buy a copy of Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators.

[Baron58]

Are you going to be back up at KILG any time soon?

[stubeeef]

Are you going to be back up at KILG any time soon?

hopefully never again. was supposed to go to flt safety in dallas but was delayed for the sales position interviews, the contract was 21k and we wanted to not spend that if I was not going to be flying anymore.

I will still fly my buddies bonanza A36, when I want. Flying is much better when it is for fun.

did my last ilg run last november.

[emw]

I don't feel so bad resurrecting this thread, since you referenced it in another thread not long ago.

Anyway, stu be careful out there:Link (http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/26/pf/jobs_jeopardy/index.htm)

The highest rates of fatal injuries -- the most per worker employed -- occurred among loggers, pilots, and fishermen.
Yikes. Now I know why you were looking to get out of flying and into sales! Unfortunately you're now a traveling salesman...

Highway accidents on the job were the No. 1 killer -- 1,374 died last year, 21 more than the year before.

[stubeeef]

I don't feel so bad resurrecting this thread, since you referenced it in another thread not long ago.

Anyway, stu be careful out there:Link (http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/26/pf/jobs_jeopardy/index.htm)


Yikes. Now I know why you were looking to get out of flying and into sales! Unfortunately you're now a traveling salesman...

While I had not seen the numbers, I was sure of the outcome, the road is a killer.
Just now leaving studing in the plant to go to a study group for a test tomorrow.
Liking learning, and the people here are fabulous, I picked well this time.

[Abstract]

I don't even know how some people can work 70-80 hours a week. That's 10 hours a day, and only IF you work 7 days a week. If you work 6, I have no idea how people could do it unless they were desperate for money.

Income goes up......quality of life goes down. Sure, you may have more money and quality of life APPEARS to be higher, but it could all be an illusion if you're working over 60 hours per week, every week, for years.

[stubeeef]

I don't even know how some people can work 70-80 hours a week. That's 10 hours a day, and only IF you work 7 days a week. If you work 6, I have no idea how people could do it unless they were desperate for money.

Income goes up......quality of life goes down. Sure, you may have more money and quality of life APPEARS to be higher, but it could all be an illusion if you're working over 60 hours per week, every week, for years.

I count all time from home in that equation, if it is not at home free time-it is therefore work time.
If I leave home at 6am on Mon and Return at 7Pm on Tues then I just worked 37hours. That may not be everyone elses diffention, but it is how I look at it.
When I did Navy Reserve Duty in Va, I drove nearly 5hrs to get there. I would leave on Fri at 5pm and return home Sun at 10pm, I gave the Navy53hours. None of those hours were even sleeping in my bed next to my wife. Zero home time is therefore 100% work time.
I will spend at least one evening a week in Charlotte NC for the first 6 months. If we use the first example of 37 hours then work 12 hours (leave at 6am return home at 6pm) I would have "worked" 73 hours. That is how I look at it. I have no office other than my car and briefcase in this job, so commute time is work time.

PS how is the DR thing going?
I am in a crash course on E.R.CP, and all of our exciting toys. Fusion rocks that world.
(for those wondering what ERCP is google, here is the verbage Endoscopic Retrograde Cholangiopancreatography) May you never need one.

[sushi]

the jet I fly was nearly taken back to the home office 3 times before I took the job. If guidant had completed the buyout of our company the jet would have been moved to Indianapolis, where I would be looking at no job, cause they are being bought out by J&J. Corp pilots have little security in buyouts or mergers. We define synergy, at 2 million a year on the budget, they are expensive tools, especially if the aquiring company already has a flight dept.
There are particulars about our company that make the flight dept more vunerable as the years go by, and don't want to discuss it now, just believe it.
I am on a tether, 1 hour radius without permission, 365 days a year. Want to plan a weekend trip? Better not end up having to fly. while pop-up trips are rare, they happen. Also, I have 0 scheduled days off for Dr, Dentist, etc. You have to ask for time off, and if things get busy, you cancel the appt.
I have no opportunity for advancement over the next 5 years, even if the plane stays here.
I have little to no opportunity at making the money I want to make.
I have had sales jobs and been successful. I had to go back to flying because I was legislated out of my last self-employed sales job, while expecting our 3 kid.
The company has an outstanding reputation for great products and quality, as well as price (we are not the cheapest). The managers that I know of, as well as the executives are great people. My wife is apprehensive but very, very supportive.
This position offers me 2 important things I don't have now. STABILITY and OPPPORTUNITY. I work lots of hours on the side right now, I half own some storage units, and work with the Navy Reserves. So I am used to a long day.
I am very motived, 3 daughters who will need college, and weddings. And the dream of retirement.
I love sales, and when people talk to me about flying, I say"It's cause I don't want to dig ditches." I enjoy it most times, despise it others. I am very over it.
Stubeef, I completely understand your situation.

As a pilot, I too had a decision to make some years ago. I decided that the airlines/corporate gig was to iffy for mel. I went another route. Never regretted it.

Many of my non-pilot friends thought that I was an idiot for not pursuing the aviation route. Sure glad that I didn't.

Going the non-aviation route worked well for me. I hope that it works for you as well.

Good luck!

Sushi

[sushi]

Flying is much better when it is for fun.
So very true! Can sure empathize with you on that one.

Sushi

[sushi]

Eat at lots of resturants now, also candy machines. Good news, have lost 32 pounds in the last 50 days.
How the heck did you do that? Please share.

TIA,

Sushi

[stubeeef]

How the heck did you do that? Please share.

TIA,

Sushi

I guess it should say, I USED to eat out of candy machines. There often was not enough time at a stop to clean out the airplane and get it ready for the next leg, and get to a restaurant too.

The wieght loss is from strong will (avoiding the yummy transfats on the menu, and the candy machines), not while eating out of machines or fatty restaurant foods. Sorry for the confusion.

[stubeeef]

Finished my first 2 weeks of training. Had 3 tests too. Go out on the road with the Eastern NC rep on tue, wed, thur, and my boss on Fri. Really looking forward to it too! I am very excited, am happy to represent great quality, fabulous innovation, and wonderful people. Something not many sales people get to do.
Couldn't be better timing for a company car and gas either!

[sushi]

I guess it should say, I USED to eat out of candy machines. There often was not enough time at a stop to clean out the airplane and get it ready for the next leg, and get to a restaurant too.

The wieght loss is from strong will (avoiding the yummy transfats on the menu, and the candy machines), not while eating out of machines or fatty restaurant foods. Sorry for the confusion.
No confusion. Just trying to loose weight myself.

For me, changing from an active to sedintary life made me put on the pounds very quickly. I am going the wrong way! Arg. Need to lose a few pounds now.

...much easier to put on vice take off I've found.

Sushi

[sushi]

Finished my first 2 weeks of training. Had 3 tests too. Go out on the road with the Eastern NC rep on tue, wed, thur, and my boss on Fri. Really looking forward to it too! I am very excited, am happy to represent great quality, fabulous innovation, and wonderful people. Something not many sales people get to do.
Couldn't be better timing for a company car and gas either!
Fantastic! Glad to hear your excitement. :D

Sushi

[stubeeef]

No confusion. Just trying to loose weight myself.

For me, changing from an active to sedintary life made me put on the pounds very quickly. I am going the wrong way! Arg. Need to lose a few pounds now.

...much easier to put on vice take off I've found.

Sushi


this thread has a great group discussion on that topic.

counting calories (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=142123&highlight=counting+calories)

[sushi]

this thread has a great group discussion on that topic.

counting calories (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=142123&highlight=counting+calories)
Stubeef, Thanks for the info. I will check it out.

Gobatane (Good Luck) on the new job!

Sushi