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OS X Dude
Jun 12, 2012, 10:14 AM
It was (I think) the only Apple pro app that didn't see a Retina update announced yesterday.

This either means:

a) Apple don't care (highly, highly unlikely)
b) Retina is a part of Logic X, and is due very soon. Too soon to make a Retina update of 9 seem worthwhile.

Just my thoughts, I guess there's some logic to them :p



bjm2660
Jun 12, 2012, 10:17 AM
It was (I think) the only Apple pro app that didn't see a Retina update announced yesterday.

This either means:

a) Apple don't care (highly, highly unlikely)
b) Retina is a part of Logic X, and is due very soon. Too soon to make a Retina update of 9 seem worthwhile.

Just my thoughts, I guess there's some logic to them :p

I hope you're right.

OS X Dude
Jun 12, 2012, 10:20 AM
I hope you're right.

I mean, they wouldn't think "Let's update all our OS X core programs and pro apps" and miss Logic in that list without deliberately omitting it. I know the eMagic people still make it but it's still now an Apple program.

bjm2660
Jun 13, 2012, 12:00 AM
I mean, they wouldn't think "Let's update all our OS X core programs and pro apps" and miss Logic in that list without deliberately omitting it. I know the eMagic people still make it but it's still now an Apple program.

On the other hand, there is always the "Apple hates us and wants to kill us off" argument. I do think that Logic has been somewhat neglected. I think the existing interface is a little poor compared to more recent updates to other Apple programs. I'd like to see a little more in-house work done with that. Give it the same start treatment that iPhoto/Aperture got recently. We hear more about garageband than Logic. Where is the brand cohesion?

OS X Dude
Jun 13, 2012, 01:49 PM
On the other hand, there is always the "Apple hates us and wants to kill us off" argument. I do think that Logic has been somewhat neglected. I think the existing interface is a little poor compared to more recent updates to other Apple programs. I'd like to see a little more in-house work done with that. Give it the same start treatment that iPhoto/Aperture got recently. We hear more about garageband than Logic. Where is the brand cohesion?

I don't think this is the case, to be honest. The people behind eMagic still care a heck of a lot for their system, and I doubt they're working on anything else for Apple (except possibly GarageBand). Logic X is taking it's sweet time to come out, but I imagine the Final Cut X debacle made them possibly rethink what they were then doing with Logic X.

Apple knows they own a great sector of the DAW market with Logic - it and Pro Tools have always been the leaders. Given how many studios, universities, colleges and musicians spend and depend on it, Apple would have to be incredibly blind to turn their back on it.

I guess you hear about GarageBand because it's included with OS X and is also a 2.99 iOS app, not a 110 program that has features wasted on Joe Public. GarageBand is marketed as kind of a way to sell Macs and iPads to people, to a degree. If they advertised Logic, they'd be preaching to the choir - those who need/want it already know about it.

ChrisA
Jun 14, 2012, 06:37 PM
It was (I think) the only Apple pro app that didn't see a Retina update announced yesterday.

This either means:

a) Apple don't care (highly, highly unlikely)
b) Retina is a part of Logic X, and is due very soon. Too soon to make a Retina update of 9 seem worthwhile.

Just my thoughts, I guess there's some logic to them :p


One more option: (c) Logic uses only APIs that already will cause the display to be rendered correctly on a retna display. My bet is on this option. For example the "bad" way to draw a box is to write your software so it makes it N by M pixels wides. Better to fist ask the OS what is the pixel scale "S" then draw the box SN by SM pixels. Note that this was always the preferred way but when every screen had the same scale few bother to ask what "S" was. Maybe Logic did this from day one?

Boyd01
Jun 15, 2012, 06:35 AM
If you read Apple's support forum, there are an awful lot of problems reported with Logic under MacOSX 10.7.4. I have stayed with 10.7.3 myself and don't see any issues.

So it seems like Apple needs to address these before they worry too much about retina compatibility....

fastlanephil
Jun 16, 2012, 11:14 AM
It's getting close to three years since Logic 9 was released. I hope Apple comes up with a major update at least by this fall. Apple acquired Redmatica at the end of May so it will probably take some time to integrate that technology into Logic besides Retina Display and bug fixes. Maybe after the release of Mountain Lion. :)

I'm looking at either upgrading to from DP6 to DP 8, buying Studio One V.2 or Apple's Logic X?. Which ever has the most intuitive interface, best work flow for composing and strongest MIDI editing features.

May the best DAW (for me) win! :D

bjm2660
Jun 16, 2012, 11:39 AM
May the best DAW (for me) win! :D

That's a good way of looking at it. I've delayed some decisions for my home studio in search of the most intuitive experience without making unnecessary purchases.

I don't suppose anyone has a timetable on the release of DP8?

fastlanephil
Jun 16, 2012, 12:01 PM
I don't suppose anyone has a timetable on the release of DP8?

I think they originally said Spring 2012 but you know how that goes. :rolleyes:

OS X Dude
Jun 16, 2012, 12:20 PM
If for whatever reason Logic X wasn't what I was looking for, I think I'd heavily get into Pro Tools. I'd still be mortified though, I adore Logic.

musio
Jun 16, 2012, 12:23 PM
anyone emailed apple for any news on release? Tim seems forthcoming with info on the mac pros and it's pro users and as a part of the 'pro users' group, they should deserve some light on this one..

No mention of Logic getting a retina update is either
1: bad news, they've dropped it
2: They are working on something new which is out soon

Sackvillenb
Jun 20, 2012, 03:58 PM
I do think the are working on it... at least I hope so! But, like someone said, I hunk they are tying to be careful with this update, due to their mistakes with FCP... I really like Logic though, but I do think the interface could use some streamlining...

HoldernessMedia
Jun 23, 2012, 02:21 PM
I sincerely doubt Apple is abandoning Logic. They're taking their time, which is a good thing. I hope they're making Logic X for iOS, personally.

OS X Dude
Jun 24, 2012, 07:05 AM
I hope they're making Logic X for iOS, personally.

I sincerely hope not :p GarageBand is the best mobile DAW out there, and is very usable even in professional projects. The built-in synth sounds are fantastic, and my guitar sounds better through GB than in AmpliTube for iOS to my ears.

If they supported iOS in the next Logic, it would either be too advanced to work properly on a mobile platform, or the desktop version would be gimped in some way.

nuckinfutz
Jun 24, 2012, 11:42 AM
I sincerely hope not :p GarageBand is the best mobile DAW out there, and is very usable even in professional projects. The built-in synth sounds are fantastic, and my guitar sounds better through GB than in AmpliTube for iOS to my ears.

If they supported iOS in the next Logic, it would either be too advanced to work properly on a mobile platform, or the desktop version would be gimped in some way.

All the Pro apps are coming to iOS. Don't expect Logic X to have huge interface differences but I suspect that some of the UI elements that are small will suddenly grow into more of a touch friendly widget. That would be our sign.

HoldernessMedia
Jun 24, 2012, 02:23 PM
I sincerely hope not :p GarageBand is the best mobile DAW out there, and is very usable even in professional projects. The built-in synth sounds are fantastic, and my guitar sounds better through GB than in AmpliTube for iOS to my ears.

If they supported iOS in the next Logic, it would either be too advanced to work properly on a mobile platform, or the desktop version would be gimped in some way.

I agree GarageBand for iOS is fantastic, but I'm willing to bet many people were just as against the idea of GarageBand for iOS as they are for Logic for iOS. Funny that people dont seem to acknowledge that Garageband IS the logic engine with a simplified UI, so in that sense Logic is already running on iOS. :)

Logic X for iOS could just have a slightly different interface than the OS X version, in the same exact way that GarageBand for iOS is simpler than the OS X version. IMO it would require very little or zero compromise to the desktop version of Logic X, simply hiding UI elements or showing alternate UI's when running on iOS.
People are so scared of change they block out their ability to look at the positive aspects of moving forward. This type of thinking is like a plague amongst the Apple "Pro" user community, and I'll never understand why.

With iOS and OS X, and of course the iPad in particular, there's so much commotion about how the users are being "dumbed down" as well as iOS, OS X and the Pro apps are being simplified and less "PRO".

And yet, in reality iOS has done nothing but rapidly become a more advanced operating system with each iteration, making the iPad much more capable of content creation. For OS X, it's gaining many of the features of iOS that streamline the UI, making it faster and more fluid like iOS. For me, that is really desirable. Using Mountain Lion with a Magic Trackpad feels like THE most professional operating system I've ever used. Maybe it's just me but I whole heartedly welcome touch interfaces and simplified UI access to Pro Apps, it brings them closer in line with musical instruments and puts the focus on creativity opposed to how well youve studied the user manual for "Professional Application XYZ". I think the underlying fear of "Pros" is that once the UI becomes simple enough, their memorization of complex UI's will be seen as less of a skill, and therefore less needed.

This has already happened in the audio and video world as more people choose to record at home and produce their own video content. The real skills "Pros" are going to need in the future are golden ears and eyes, and metric **** tons of creativity, because the tools are going to be the same for everyone. We're already there anyways, young kids start their musical journey having access right from the get go to things like GarageBand, Logic, Ableton, Fruity Loops, etc. They're able to produce to radio quality music from their bedrooms on small, dirt cheap equipment, IF they have the talent and creativity, without ever dealing with a "Pro".

Think about a guitar. One of the great things about it is that it's such a no fuss instrument, just pick it up and start playing. Fairly straightforward and simple design, easy enough to understand the basic concepts that just about anyone can pick it up and start strumming the strings and fretting notes. Those who dedicate the time and effort can learn to use that instrument to create and/or play incredibly complex music, and yet the guitar's UI is the same for everyone.

Imagine if every time you wanted to play the guitar, first off you had to have good money to have access to it. Then everytime you wanted to play it, you had to put on a fresh set of strings, tune it up, and use special Pro gloves with plastic tips over your fingers that had latency in between you pressing down on the fret and the glove knowing that you pressed your finger down. And of course the guitar would need to be played in one room of your house since it had to be connected to other Pro gear to even hear it.

Only the Pros could play, and boy I'm sure they'd rock.

Twilio
Jun 25, 2012, 08:25 AM
i don't think it is happen..... or may b you are right.....

Apple knows they own a great sector of the DAW market with Logic - it and Pro Tools have always been the leaders........

Boyd01
Jun 25, 2012, 09:15 AM
Think about a guitar.

{...}

Those who dedicate the time and effort can learn to use that instrument to create and/or play incredibly complex music, and yet the guitar's UI is the same for everyone.

So, continuing your analogy.... this would be the MacOSX "guitar app": http://www.guitarcenter.com/Martin-D-16RGT-Dreadnought-Guitar-101892115-i1149085.gc

And here's the iOS version: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acoustic-Guitar-for-Dummies-Bundle-Kona-Acoustic-Guitar-Accessories-Instructional-Book-CD/10975367

:D

HoldernessMedia
Jun 25, 2012, 12:11 PM
So, continuing your analogy.... this would be the MacOSX "guitar app": http://www.guitarcenter.com/Martin-D-16RGT-Dreadnought-Guitar-101892115-i1149085.gc

And here's the iOS version: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Acoustic-Guitar-for-Dummies-Bundle-Kona-Acoustic-Guitar-Accessories-Instructional-Book-CD/10975367

:D

I see what you tried to do there, haha.
Of course a great guitarist could play circles around most people using the cheapy Kona, because instead of playing and creating, they would be too busy debating the build quality differences between the Kona and the Martin and coming up with endless excuses why they just couldn't possibly play anything on the Kona. ;)

paolo-
Jun 25, 2012, 03:05 PM
I think it's because they're working on a new version of the software. Also Logic needs to work properly with plugins, possibly something that would make it more complicated to make a scalable UI. Lastly, it's not like Aperture or Final Cut where you're working on images...

HoldernessMedia
Jun 25, 2012, 03:10 PM
I think it's because they're working on a new version of the software. Also Logic needs to work properly with plugins, possibly something that would make it more complicated to make a scalable UI. Lastly, it's not like Aperture or Final Cut where you're working on images...

GarageBand needs to work with audio unit plugins as well, and it runs just fine on iOS.

paolo-
Jun 25, 2012, 08:12 PM
GarageBand needs to work with audio unit plugins as well, and it runs just fine on iOS.

I was referring to the initial question of the thread, retina on mac os. I think it's a combination of reasons. They probably have a new version in the works (that they possibly threw back on the drawing board after Final Cut's launch). It might be kind of pointless to work on Logic UI when they have a new UI design in the works made specifically to work with scalable res. It might be a harder app to convert to scalable res as it's quite dependent on plug-ins. Also, isn't part of logic still in Carbon? And lastly a retina Logic upgrade is quite less useful than the upgrade to Aperture and Final Cut.

HoldernessMedia
Jun 25, 2012, 08:16 PM
I was referring to the initial question of the thread, retina on mac os.
I misunderstood, sorry about that.

Anyhow who knows what it will be, but it certainly seems there must be a new version in the works. Hope they release it soon, I'm just excited to see what it will be so I can drool like a moron. :p

OS X Dude
Jun 26, 2012, 07:09 AM
Hopefully it keeps the current Logic's price point. It's even better than what I got Logic Studio for on my university discount!

A rumoured feature is that WaveBurner will be incorporated into Logic itself; I hope that it's nicely implemented, if true.

Kenaudio
Jul 23, 2012, 04:52 AM
That's a good way of looking at it. I've delayed some decisions for my home studio in search of the most intuitive experience without making unnecessary purchases.

I don't suppose anyone has a timetable on the release of DP8?

Two years ago I bought Ableton Live in addition to Logic and the rumours that the sound algorithm which comes with Logic hasn't been improved since version 5 was obvious. Ableton sounds so much better and the way to use the intuitive program overwhelmed me!
I think, when it comes to sound, and that's what we are talking about here, other programs than logic will make the pace. Protools is another great sounding program but Avid isnt cool to my mind;).

Cheers,
KA

fastlanephil
Jul 23, 2012, 11:44 AM
It seems like the whole audio content creation market is in turmoil right now. Well, it always has been but now more than usual.

It looks like there's a pretty good shake out going on in the hardware, software market. I have a felling that there are going to be fewer players left when it is all over and some of that will just be due to plain old bad luck. And it's cross platform this time so all can share in the fun.

I think Apple will position itself to take advantage of this so expect the unexpected from them.

Something's coming.

spoonie1972
Aug 17, 2012, 01:52 PM
logic has been getting crappier and crappier with each passing version.

it used to be snappy.. so fast! now i'm on a machine with likely 4x the computing power as when I was running 7.2.x and the interface is slower.

It's great that they've added a bunch of dvd's of loops.. but i'd rather have a program that is problem free.

They don't really fix things.. they just want you to buy/upgrade to the next version. It's incredibly annoying.

emagic used to be so on top of these things.

Sadly, I know the program so well and have so much back-catalog of files, I'm forced to stick with it.

fastlanephil
Sep 1, 2012, 10:42 AM
It seems like the whole audio content creation market is in turmoil right now. Well, it always has been but now more than usual.

It looks like there's a pretty good shake out going on in the hardware, software market. I have a felling that there are going to be fewer players left when it is all over and some of that will just be due to plain old bad luck. And it's cross platform this time so all can share in the fun.

I think Apple will position itself to take advantage of this so expect the unexpected from them.

Something's coming.

I think you're on to something.

Some big name DAWS could go bye bye.

chrslbrt
Sep 2, 2012, 02:15 AM
I've been on Studio One for a while now. I only keep Logic just to import project files and vice versa, other than that, it's dead weight.

Electribe
Oct 12, 2012, 03:14 PM
Wow, so much misinformation in one thread.

Firstly, @kenaudio, please enlighten us to how ableton sounds "better" than logic.

The audio engine/algorithm myth was debunked years ago to the point that software and studio engineers use it a quick indicator of someone that knows nothing on the subject matter. I hate to say it, but it's ********.

Do a null test between the two. See what you get (or should that be what you don't get ;).

What sometimes happens with albleton is that you're hearing the warping of samples and it has certain anti aliasing filters, but many studio engineers I work with actually hate the sound as technically it's a bastardization of the original audio signal. Certainly not "better" however you cook it.

Secondly, I would love to know how Logic has been getting crapier and crapier with each version. (as well as PTHD, Cubase, etc) I've been using it for years, since version 4, dropped it when it became mac only, then picked it up again when they brought out 8.

They have consistently led the market with updates and new functions then the other DAWS then rush to copy and the thing has dropped in price by more than 60% while all these improvements and new developments are happening.

Logic is arguably at least on a par with any of the other sequencers out there, if not the best platform (albeit a very subjective issue) and there's a reason more score composers use it than any other platform. Because it;s damn advanced and works damn well.

Sure they've messed up certain things (cpu load sharing, certain bugs) but every major has their own problems, and statistically, Logic has more regular bug fixes and improvements that any other platform. I don't know what you;re talking about with the interface not being snappy? I have previous versions on other computers and they are slower - if anything Logic 9 is more efficient and faster than I've ever had it.

Don't like the loops? (me neither). Don't install them.

sagnier
Oct 26, 2012, 12:20 PM
I sincerely doubt Apple is abandoning Logic. They're taking their time, which is a good thing. I hope they're making Logic X for iOS, personally.


Please god no!

neodrew
Nov 5, 2012, 03:05 PM
I've been on Studio One for a while now. I only keep Logic just to import project files and vice versa, other than that, it's dead weight.

I'm probably headed this direction soon, since our church will be getting a StudioLive 24.4.2 soon. Will likely continue to use Logic for home recording stuff, since I'll have my ProFires there now. Be interesting to see which one I prefer.

I had been hoping for a new Logic soon, but I've got a feeling that it won't be coming out any time soon. FCPX got some audio upgrades in past months - have to wonder if Apple is putting effort into streamlining audio production there, rather than in Logic. Or maybe they're creating some sort of grand unified ProLife'##? :eek:

Ploki
Jan 12, 2013, 04:51 AM
I'm probably headed this direction soon, since our church will be getting a StudioLive 24.4.2 soon. Will likely continue to use Logic for home recording stuff, since I'll have my ProFires there now. Be interesting to see which one I prefer.

I had been hoping for a new Logic soon, but I've got a feeling that it won't be coming out any time soon. FCPX got some audio upgrades in past months - have to wonder if Apple is putting effort into streamlining audio production there, rather than in Logic. Or maybe they're creating some sort of grand unified ProLife'##? :eek:

Huh. streamlined A/V editing is not a stupid thing. It would make collab with video editors so much easier, but the implementation? It would need to be able to run in audio or video mode or combo mode so you don't have hindered performance.

But that would be pretty awesome if you ask me.

PRPS
Feb 10, 2013, 09:03 AM
I doubt logic x will ever come out. I been a logic user since version 8 and they sees to stray away from their pro applications as of late

Weerez935
Feb 19, 2013, 10:05 PM
The next version of logic will definitely come out, like other have said there are too many people that prefer it, depend on it, etc. I would rather see the current software stay at a low entry price point than a addition of a few features every year. Hopefully schools will take advantage of this because my first recording class at Texas A&M (took during highschool) passed out copies of a very dated "le" edition of cubase. It is incredibly hard to learn the production value of modern recording with antiquated software.

Plus the current version of logic is still very usable and most recording studios I've been to in the past 3-4 years still ran logic/ protools in studios a/b (not in that order neccesarily).

I'll be happy if they've been working on it since 09 to really improve it as compared to minor trivial updates.

As far as the iPad is concerned I think this could open up lots of oppritunities for many people. I would personally want to see it as a second screen/ controller type app. This would allow many mobile recording people the ability to go record a show without an 18 wheeler full of gear.
If like to see the ability to control monitors/ head phones amps similiarly to presonus add on hardware that's been around since 05 or so. The ability to pinch zoom on tracks, splice with finger, and move/ copy / etc is incredibly intriguing.

logic is a great performing daw for the price. I prefer that it doesn't become a budget daw because garage band already fills that role as well as (sonar, cubase etc). Currently for my own purposes logic sits in between pro tools and the lower end software with its one true advantage over protools being that you don't have to purchase an avid digidesign or focusrite interface.

While there are a lot of people dissapointed with the lack of updated software since 09 all the software on a mac still trounces most new software on windows. People also have to consider what people want as essential software is much different than what they needed in 2092 when "iLife" was introduced. For example what is the point in iDVD for users without a optical drive? I still use it but many don't. The other fact is that now most people with a mac now have an iphone/iPad as opposed to digital camera, iPod, contact holders ( these were pretty cool until phones started storing all the info), etc.

The hard part for apple is going to be making improvements to software that still make since in an elegant way. I prefer that each piece of software maintains and improves its own functionality but I can understand why some people would like a merge.

PRPS
Mar 2, 2013, 01:33 AM
Don't get me wrong i absolutely love logic. I just think Apple's business model has moved away from Pro applications. They seemed to be more geared to the GarageBand users. It would be nice if they revamped ultrabeat or made it easier to edit midi

printz
Mar 2, 2013, 10:51 AM
As if GarageBand is better... Last time I tried it, in Mountain Lion, it still looked like a Leopard application, with big title bar buttons, and more aggravating, no autosave/versions/resume. For creative work, such features would be most useful...