intel mac laptops.......

[bigben334]

wen is apple expected to convert their laptops to intel??? will the powerbooks switch first or will the ibooks switch first, and wen this will be, roughly??? thanks

[Capt Underpants]

It's anyone's guess...

My guess is June '06

[acedickson]

My guess is the PowerBooks will be first. I'm also banking on March-June '06 for them to drop. I do think the Mac Mini will be the first with an Intel processor and probably be premiered at Macworld SF.

[WinterMute]

Apple won't release ANY Intel based Macs till late 2006, but will be releasing updates to the portable line up this year.

The Intel chips to be used do not currently feature in Intel's line-up and will be specifically engineered for Apple.

This precludes a quick-fix Pentium-M laptop and could re-open the door to a G5 PowerBook (my speculation that last comment).

[risc]

The Intel chips to be used do not currently feature in Intel's line-up and will be specifically engineered for Apple.

Um since when? Do you have any links about this? I haven't read one single thing that leads me to believe they wont be using stock standard Intel CPUs.

[Chundles]

Apple will update the iBook when you fix up your post to include the "h" in the word "when." You're not limited to a certain number of characters here so you can use all the letters in a word.

Hurry up! I want to see this new iBook.

[WinterMute]

Um since when? Do you have any links about this? I haven't read one single thing that leads me to believe they wont be using stock standard Intel CPUs.

This is based on several conversations regarding Apple development plans over the last couple of weeks, I can't disclose sources obviously, but I do have pretty good relations with Apple.

Besides, why would Apple want to use the same chips as Dell? It doesn't make sense given Apple's desire to be unique in the marketplace. The Intel switch isn't about conforming, it's about performance and being in control of the product.

(Oh, and money obviously...)

[MacDawg]

Hope its not that long, I'm starting to get the itch for a Powerbook, but you are probably right. Maybe I'll buy a used iBook just to get my feet wet.

Woof, Woof – Dawg http://homepage.mac.com/k.j.vinson/pawprint.gif

[rdowns]

This is based on several conversations regarding Apple development plans over the last couple of weeks, I can't disclose sources obviously, but I do have pretty good relations with Apple.

Besides, why would Apple want to use the same chips as Dell? It doesn't make sense given Apple's desire to be unique in the marketplace. The Intel switch isn't about conforming, it's about performance and being in control of the product.

(Oh, and money obviously...)

Sorry, I just don't buy this.

Do you really believe that Intel will "specifically engineer" chips just for Apple? Makes no business sense what so ever. Apple's volume is but a pimple on Intel's ass. You think Dell or HP or any other large manufacturer will stand for Apple getting better chips than they do?

July 2006, Intel labs.....

Engineer: Hey, we're ready with this new mobile 46 zigabyte chip that uses only 6w of power, has a 2GB cache and is the size of a postage stamp.

Marketing guy: Let's call Dell, they'll take 3 million for the next quarter.

Other marketing guy: Oh no, we have to give this to Apple. They'll take 250,000, maybe even 350,000 for the next quarter.

[WinterMute]

Sorry, I just don't buy this.

Do you really believe that Intel will "specifically engineer" chips just for Apple? Makes no business sense what so ever. Apple's volume is but a pimple on Intel's ass. You think Dell or HP or any other large manufacturer will stand for Apple getting better chips than they do?

July 2006, Intel labs.....

Engineer: Hey, we're ready with this new mobile 46 zigabyte chip that uses only 6w of power, has a 2GB cache and is the size of a postage stamp.

Marketing guy: Let's call Dell, they'll take 3 million for the next quarter.

Other marketing guy: Oh no, we have to give this to Apple. They'll take 250,000, maybe even 350,000 for the next quarter.

You have a point about the volume issue, but Apple provide something Intel have been sadly lacking, kudos, exclusivity and style. With Sony and M$ switching to IBM for console manufacturing, Intel need to reclaim to high ground and Apple can help them do that, plus Intel are big enough to develop as many chip lines as they need to, the architecture may be similar, but the chips themselves won't be the same.

Think of VW providing the oily bits for VW, SEAT and Audi cars, same base, different machines, VW wins all round.

I'm absolutely certain Steve Jobs would not have tied Apple to Intel if he was going to get the same chips as Dell, the Apple versions will be from the new product lines and the Dell versions may well fund the whole affair. Intel would much rather have BOTH companies as clients regardless of volume. Finally I think Apple plans to move up the league in the marketshare area, SJ is gunning for M$'s market. Intel can give him the volume he needs to do that.

[skubish]

I don't think Apple is getting a custom chip from Intel. Intel stands to lose to much by pissing off much bigger customers. They may be working with Apple to design a custom motherboard though.


I am curious to see how they prevent the new version of OSX from being installed on any x86 machine.

[risc]

With Merom, Conroe, and Woodcrest in the pipeline from Intel why would Apple require a custom CPU? I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense, I'd love to see it happen but if Intel were designing custom CPUs why drop PPC, and why would the Universal Binaries work on the Pentium 4 based development boxes?

[chaos86]

I do think the Mac Mini will be the first with an Intel processor...

i dont get why everyone assumes the mac mini will be the first mac to switch to intel. the g4 is plenty powerful enough for the people targetted by the mini, that is, the consumers. and it's got some room to grow, they have 1.67ghz (or accoding to rumors, 1.7) that will probably end the ppc mini line. I think it will be last to be switched because it's good as it is. them or the imacs. emacs should be swallowed by the imac and mac mini.... the powerbooks though are in desperate need of a speed and speed:power/heat ratio upgrade.

[WinterMute]

With Merom, Conroe, and Woodcrest in the pipeline from Intel why would Apple require a custom CPU? I'm sorry but this doesn't make sense, I'd love to see it happen but if Intel were designing custom CPUs why drop PPC, and why would the Universal Binaries work on the Pentium 4 based development boxes?

Not in current line up, the new chips will probably be specifically engineered versions of the designs you mention, but they won't be based on the existing Pentium designs like the Pentium-M.

The chips that go to Dell won't be the chips that Apple get, but their underlying design will be similar.

[petej]

Customization could be somthing as simple putting some form of Apple indentification in the chip so that OSX will only run on Mac/Intels. And/or naming them differently - G6 anyone. The pentium brand name is probably getting a little tired now and has a confusing number of variants.

[Sun Baked]

Not in current line up, the new chips will probably be specifically engineered versions of the designs you mention, but they won't be based on the existing Pentium designs like the Pentium-M.

The chips that go to Dell won't be the chips that Apple get, but their underlying design will be similar.I can see Apple requesting design specs a bit different from anyone else in the industry.

Apple is bold enough to ask for chips that meet certain, power and heat requirements, while most PC manufacturing tends to work around the chips that come out in bulk.

Apple did the same thing with Motorola, getting some altered spec and modified process chips ... because what would be fine for a Cisco router might not work well in a PowerBook/Mac.

Edit: Forgot that the most likely change might be the packaging, Apple will probably seek an extremely low profile package to solder to the motherboards.

[FF_productions]

I look at all these benchmarks by apple, they claim the powermac g5 destroys all the dell's high-end machines...Why would Intel NOT make custom chips for apple? How would the benchmarks look when Dell and Apple are both using the EXACT same chip?
Correct me if I'm wrong...

[risc]

Correct me if I'm wrong...

The current benchmarks (which are dodgy at best) compare current G5s and Pentiums / Xeons what has this got to do with the future CPUs coming out of Intel?

In 2006/7 I think the only difference between these machines will be Dell will still have crap designs and the OS that comes on both machines.

I'm not convinced. I still haven't seen anything here that leads me to believe Apple are getting a custom CPU from Intel, the post above about mainboards is the only thing that sounds logical so far.

[Heb1228]

I thought Steve said in the Keynote at the Dev Conference that they would be producing consumer level products with intel chips first with the Pro lines to follow. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I remember his saying that.

[XNine]

First, Apple is making it so these machines are the only machines that can still run OS X. Secondly, if that's the case, if they were standard Intel chips then OS X would be able to run on ANY PC.

There is going to be some kind of hardware tie to the OS, like there is now with the other units Apple has on the market. And they will make it so that you cannot take that hardware, solder it on to a generic motherboard and have OS X on your Dell.

Think about it logically and not by some moronic sales stance. Intel doesn't care. They'll design whatever Apple wants because they know Apple is becoming, more and more, the dominant platform and that Microshaft will fall on its face when Longhorn arrives in 2056.

[joeconvert]

Not in current line up, the new chips will probably be specifically engineered versions of the designs you mention, but they won't be based on the existing Pentium designs like the Pentium-M.

The chips that go to Dell won't be the chips that Apple get, but their underlying design will be similar.

This is where I start to question your information. Intel is backtracking most of their designs across market segments to be based on the clearly superior Pentium-M.

[After G]

I think what will happen is that Mac computers will become the experimental playground for what will become standard fare on PCs two or three years later.

With the Mac marketshare being what it is, I can see Intel trying new and innovative things that it can't try with X86 on a vanilla PC because of legacy bloat and needing to maintain backwards compatibility.

It will make Macs that much more desirable in my eyes ... the latest and greatest from Intel :-)

I think the Mac will get a custom Intel chip ... even if it is just for hardware locking (though the idea that this could be some form of hardware DRM makes me worried).

[sw1tcher]

I look at all these benchmarks by apple, they claim the powermac g5 destroys all the dell's high-end machines...Why would Intel NOT make custom chips for apple? How would the benchmarks look when Dell and Apple are both using the EXACT same chip?
Correct me if I'm wrong...

Intel won't be making custom chips for Apple because

1. It would make their chips that go into Windows PCs look bad if the designed-for-Apple chips performed better. PR disaster? All the computer vendors who use Intel chips would get really upset that they're getting inferior chips.

2. Stock holders would get upset if Intel spent huge amounts of money just to develop a custom chip for a niche player.

3. Apple's not a big enough of a chip mover for Intel. Therefore, Intel would not (IMO) dedicate valuable resources to develop a chip specifically for Apple. If Intel did, they'd have to charge a lot for them just like IBM does with the G5 chip. We can kiss our hopes of lower-priced Macs goodbye then.


If Apple and Dell used the same chips (which is what's going to happen) it would be easier to benchmark them and give fair comparisons because they'd be using the same chips. Any performance difference between them could then be attributed to the OS. This would give us a clear picture as to which OS is superior.

You can't really compare Macs to PCs right now because they're using different chips. It's like comparing Apples to.... well, oranges.

If Apple and PC vendors used the same chips, reviewers would then be comparing Apples to apples.

[skubish]

I am betting custom motherboards only.

1. Special form factor for the Macs.
2. Special mod chips on the mobo so that OSX will only work on those mobos.

No way Apple is getting special chips from Intel. Even if they did get a custom CPU from Intel. Dell, HP, etc., would immediately ask for the same kind of CPU and it would be a PR nightware.

[WinterMute]

This is where I start to question your information. Intel is backtracking most of their designs across market segments to be based on the clearly superior Pentium-M.

Well, there's always the possibility my contact was deliberately blurring the issues, but I think that Intel's new designs have every chance of being significantly better than the already excellent Pentium-M, and I'm pretty sure Steve jobs et al will be more than happy to work a long game on the change-over.

Certainly if there were going to be MacIntel machines in the shops tomorrow I'd expect to see the Pentium-M in the portables, but these machines are 12-18 months away, Intel will have given Apple a pretty good idea what to expect from the performance of the new designs. Intel aren't going to sit still.

I like the idea of a Pentium-M PowerBook, but I like the idea of a better chip in a blistering PowerBook even more.

[sw1tcher]

Besides, why would Apple want to use the same chips as Dell? It doesn't make sense given Apple's desire to be unique in the marketplace.

Apple will still be unique. They have their award-winning designs, their OS, their software, etc.

The Intel switch isn't about conforming, it's about performance and being in control of the product.

Yes, it's about performance. But it's also about being able to deliver to us products that they've only been able to dream about.

Controling the product? If Apple were in control, we'd have G5 PowerBooks by now. We'd have 3GHz+ G5's by now. Just like with IBM and Motorola, Intel won't let Apple control the direction of their processors. Not even Dell, a much larger player, can control the direction of Intel's chips.

Apple specific chips? Not going to happen.

[tsk]

Apple won't release ANY Intel based Macs till late 2006, but will be releasing updates to the portable line up this year.

No offense here, but you claim inside info, and then then your first statement here is a contradiction to what Steve Jobs said in the keynote:

So when we meet here again this next time next year, our plan is to be shipping Macs with Intel processors by then...

That suggests Intel based Macs will be released early 2006 (something like March or April).

[WinterMute]

No offense here, but you claim inside info, and then then your first statement here is a contradiction to what Steve Jobs said in the keynote:

So when we meet here again this next time next year, our plan is to be shipping Macs with Intel processors by then...

That suggests Intel based Macs will be released early 2006 (something like March or April).

That's what I said in the conversation, but the reply held, I'm passing on info from a reliable source that tends to modify what Steve Jobs said in the keynote, if you believe it, fine, if not, no worries.

This is a rumour site after all... ;)

I thought the info made sense, still do as it happens, and I thought you lot might like to know.

The info that there will be other PPC upgrades is consistent and means people have more chance of making their own minds up about what to buy and when.

[wrxguy]

I have read in macworld that the illusive G5 PowerBook is prob not ever gonna happen due to the heat that it puts out being so high powered...even the PowerMac's have trouble movin all that heat...as for the intel chips in laptops it is said to be in LATE 06 but prob 07 is my guess...DAMN THAT STEVE JOBS! :D

[FF_productions]

Now that I think about it, speed will no longer be the issue..It's now going to be windows Os vs mac Os, and as mentioned before, there will be better and more accurate benchmarks that will tell people the truth of which OS really is the king...

[wdlove]

Not in current line up, the new chips will probably be specifically engineered versions of the designs you mention, but they won't be based on the existing Pentium designs like the Pentium-M.

The chips that go to Dell won't be the chips that Apple get, but their underlying design will be similar.

Thank you WinterMute, your information gives me a lot more confidence in the switch. To me it makes sense that Apple would be using Intel chips specifically designed for the Mac. Don't think it would cause any problems for Intel. It's that they are the largest chip maker that allows for them to diversify.

I thought that Steve said we would be getting delivery of the first mac with an Intel Chip by June?

[SpaceMagic]

The current benchmarks (which are dodgy at best) compare current G5s and Pentiums / Xeons what has this got to do with the future CPUs coming out of Intel?

In 2006/7 I think the only difference between these machines will be Dell will still have crap designs and the OS that comes on both machines.

I'm not convinced. I still haven't seen anything here that leads me to believe Apple are getting a custom CPU from Intel, the post above about mainboards is the only thing that sounds logical so far.

I have to agree with WinterMute on all accounts.

The Pentium-M is a far superior designed chip than other Pentiums, but its still 2005's mobile-CPU. None of us need reminded that Jobs said "some of the product base will hopefully have been moved up to Intel by this time next year (WWDC 2006)" so what chip Intel will have then is anyone's guess, especially since they are not in the habit of disclosing their roadmaps. Apple will not go a step backwards, so they're obviously going to have 64bit CPUs, something the Pentium-M is not (correct me if I'm wrong). It makes sense to me that Apple will be helping Intel with their next generation of CPUs and it also makes sense to me that Apple will be using a subsidized design, something Dell can't shove in their machines. Apple know they are slower than most at upgrading their product line, imagine how embarrassing it'd be every 3 months Dell brought out a faster machine based on same CPU. I just can't see it happening.

[wide]

This is based on several conversations regarding Apple development plans over the last couple of weeks, I can't disclose sources obviously, but I do have pretty good relations with Apple.

Besides, why would Apple want to use the same chips as Dell? It doesn't make sense given Apple's desire to be unique in the marketplace. The Intel switch isn't about conforming, it's about performance and being in control of the product.

(Oh, and money obviously...)

umm....most PC computers use Pentium 4, not Pentium-M....using your judgement, Apple would not want to use the Pentium 4 processors in their computers. I think that Apple will be using Pentium-M chips in their laptops. Granted, Intel may redesign them and optimize them for Macs but i do think the chips Apple will eventually put into its portable line will be compatible with both XP and OS X. i think the technology in Pentium M will be used but perhaps on a smaller chip.

[Mord]

This is based on several conversations regarding Apple development plans over the last couple of weeks, I can't disclose sources obviously, but I do have pretty good relations with Apple.

Besides, why would Apple want to use the same chips as Dell? It doesn't make sense given Apple's desire to be unique in the marketplace. The Intel switch isn't about conforming, it's about performance and being in control of the product.

(Oh, and money obviously...)

it's clear that this move is to x86 not EPIC or any RISC intel architecture, intel may provide them with slightly modifyed chips so not to be pin compatible with retail chips.

[jiv3turkey748]

i would assume that their laptops would be the first to go to intel id say between january and june of 2006