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MacRumors
Jun 14, 2012, 12:54 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/14/roundup-of-retina-macbook-pro-reviews/)


With a number of media outlets having received Retina MacBook Pro review units on Monday after the Worldwide Developers Conference keynote and a few early hands-on reports having been published, more extensive reviews are now beginning to appear. To help summarize the overall response to the new machine, we've put together this roundup of some of the major reviews, along with some highlights from each of them.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/retina_macbook_pro_table.jpg


The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/technology/personaltech/apples-macbook-pro-is-just-short-of-perfection-state-of-the-art.html) - David Pogue If you could design your dream laptop, how would you describe it?

Superfast. Superthin. Superlight. Superlong battery life. Immense storage. Enough memory to keep lots of programs open at once. Stunning screen, comfortable keyboard, terrific sound. Fast start-up, rugged body, gorgeous looks.

And, of course, inexpensive.

The new Apple laptop that went on sale Monday hits an impressive number of those high notes in one radical swoop. As you might guess, the one it misses by the biggest margin is "inexpensive."Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/13/apple-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/) - Tim StevensIs this the best Mac ever? You can't ignore the Air as an amazing piece of machinery, especially with the new, higher-powered Ivy Bridge processors and faster SSDs tucked inside its wedge profile. But, this new Pro is on another level of performance. With a quad-core processor and up to 16GB of RAM it's a proper beast -- a proper beast that you can throw in your messenger bag and carry around all day without spending all night complaining about an aching back.

That said, this is not exactly a small machine, heavy enough that those happy Air users who've been feeling tempted might want to take a swing by their closest Apple Store and lift one themselves. It's expensive, too.The Verge (http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/13/3082649/macbook-pro-review-retina-display-15-inch) - Ross MillerIf you're in the market for a premium OS X laptop right now, it's hard not to recommend the new MacBook Pro with Retina display. If, however, power isn't your ultimate goal, may we suggest shaving a few pounds and specs for the MacBook Air. As for everything in between, those non-Retina "standard" MacBook Pros, well... the writing's on the wall. And of course, it doesn't hurt to be even a little bit patient and wait for more apps to push Retina-optimized updates -- if you get the MacBook Pro with Retina display now, you'll be waiting on the world to change.Time (http://techland.time.com/2012/06/13/apple-retina-macbook-pro-review-the-macbook-pro-only-more-and-less-so/) - Harry McCrackenEven for those of us who are unlikely to spend more than two grand on a computer, or who prefer something more ultraportable than a 15´´ model, the arrival of the Retina MacBook Pro is a meaningful moment in Mac history. It's the most refined, advanced PC that Apple has produced to date. And it's a safe bet that the ideas it exhibits will be reflected in future models from the company, including ones with smaller screens and smaller price tags. It's both a great computer, and a preview of great computers to come.CNET (http://www.cnet.com/laptops/apple-macbook-pro-with/4505-3121_7-35331572.html) - Dan AckermanI've previously called the 15-inch MacBook Pro one of the most universally useful all-around laptops you can buy. This new version adds to that with HDMI, faster ports, and more portability. But it also subtracts from that with its exclusion of an optical drive and Ethernet port, plus its very high starting price. The Pro and Retina Pro are clearly two laptops designed for two different users, and with the exception of all-day commuters who need something closer to a MacBook Air or ultrabook, one of the two branches of the MacBook Pro family tree is still probably the most universally useful laptop you can buy.(Image from CNET)

Article Link: Roundup of Retina MacBook Pro Reviews (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/14/roundup-of-retina-macbook-pro-reviews/)



epiksol
Jun 14, 2012, 12:56 PM
I want one, but I'll wait for 17" version and wait for them to work out all the kinks.

Lets not forget giving the developers some time to optimize their apps for the retina display. Apps on the New iPad are slowly being updated to support this so we'll see how long it takes for desktop developers to get on board.

bbplayer5
Jun 14, 2012, 12:56 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

Eddyisgreat
Jun 14, 2012, 12:57 PM
In before "this is cool, but despite what the reviews say , revision a products always have bugs so I think i'll wait for the one that comes out in two revisions which is the one I buy so it doesn't have any bugs and extra features for a lower price. Besides my late 2011 macbook pro still does everything I need it to so this machine is crap anyway".

portishead
Jun 14, 2012, 12:58 PM
I honestly don't know how anyone could give this a negative review. Even if you personally don't like it, it's one helluva nice laptop.

WildCowboy
Jun 14, 2012, 12:58 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

You should keep reading. ;)

Hazel
Jun 14, 2012, 12:58 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

Clearly, because the very next line read:
"the one it misses by the biggest margin is “inexpensive.”"

It's clearer in the article what Pogue is getting at. The area where the Retina MBP misses the mark of a "perfect laptop" is in the pricing.

Jibbajabba
Jun 14, 2012, 01:02 PM
'inexpensive' - either David had a salary we can all dream about or he is referring to the fact he got this preview model without spending a dime (no idea if they have to give it back).

Sabenth
Jun 14, 2012, 01:04 PM
its nice its powerful its apple priced so beggers cant be choosers i guess well out of my price range but hell it dose look good

Andy-V
Jun 14, 2012, 01:04 PM
Okay as there's already 2 posts talking about the "inexpensive" quote so just to let people know:

If you've come here to talk about the "inexpensive" quote please read the sentence that follows.

jedivulcan
Jun 14, 2012, 01:05 PM
I'm personally looking forward to the Anandtech review and a possible analysis of the display from DisplayMate. Ars Technica also spends a few more days writing up their reviews too, which I can appreciate.

pubwvj
Jun 14, 2012, 01:05 PM
Odd that they complain about it being "expensive". The price is less than that of the early big desktop (they did have a handle though) Macs. Accounting for inflation the price of a Mac has been in free fall. They've never been cheaper.

Jibbajabba
Jun 14, 2012, 01:06 PM
Just read the full review

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/technology/personaltech/apples-macbook-pro-is-just-short-of-perfection-state-of-the-art.html?pagewanted=all

little nugget about the inexpensive part at the end, which is missing here ;)

topmounter
Jun 14, 2012, 01:06 PM
I'm too spoiled by my 13" MBA to go back to a 15" laptop.

ShiftyPig
Jun 14, 2012, 01:06 PM
I honestly don't know how anyone could give this a negative review. Even if you personally don't like it, it's one helluva nice laptop.

There are two knocks on it. The first is price, which I don't think is a legitimate argument because the market is the market. There is a market for $2100 laptops, it's just that the reviewer may not be in it.

The second knock - which is very legitimate - is that third-party applications that haven't been optimized for retina look atrocious. If you're spending $2100 on a laptop, you shouldn't have to deal with Firefox or Thunderbird or any of hundreds of other programs looking like crap.

I8P'CS
Jun 14, 2012, 01:07 PM
Great product yes but current iMacs and no retina MBP are quad core too and can take up decent storage amount surly that still makes those great products as well!!

in response to Engadget = but, this new Pro is on another level of performance. With a quad-core processor and up to 16GB of RAM it's a proper beast

Anki
Jun 14, 2012, 01:08 PM
One of these days the lottery numbers will be in my favour... :(

applegigs
Jun 14, 2012, 01:09 PM
I am about to buy a Macbook Pro from the states due to the fact they are cheaper of course :cool: And I am in high doubt which configuration I should go for. I've been waiting to read reviews how the Non Retina compares to the Retina, and people say it's worth the money. I will be using the MBP for photoshop most of the time and Xcode programming while I am not a spec freak I do wanna get the best for the money. So far I have never had a problem of picking up a mac but, now with the Retina Macbook do I really want it ? Do I really need it are two different things. So I went out and made a quick ugly pros and cons picture to stack them up. Tell me what do you think.http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8045/hardone.png

Thanks in advance!

Cheers Simeon!

madrag
Jun 14, 2012, 01:10 PM
I couldn't believe the "inexpensive" term used in the review... Did they mean it terms of value for the money, maybe, but I wouldn't call it inexpensive, I would rather call it "invaluable".

Saikkou
Jun 14, 2012, 01:11 PM
If Apple through in the ethernet cable dongle (haha), would people stop whining it about it?

sishaw
Jun 14, 2012, 01:12 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

The review wasn't saying that the Macbook Pro is inexpensive, it was saying that being inexpensive is a desirable trait, one that this machine misses by a wide margin. Read more carefully?

lamboman
Jun 14, 2012, 01:12 PM
Great product yes but current iMacs and no retina MBP are quad core too and can take up decent storage amount surly that still makes those great products as well!!

Way to kinda miss the point...

Personally I think that this "expensive" thing is getting a bit old. Yes, they're expensive machines. However, I actually think the price isn't actually that bad for the new model at all. I'd be inclined to say it's actually very good. You're getting a powerhouse of a notebook with an incredible form factor, and incredible display. You're paying extra money for a design that has genuine advantages in usability over both its competition as well as its former self. Expensive is what you get if you want a great machine, it doesn't make it bad value. Are they expecting Apple to sell these for £499?

If it weren't for the fact that I've got two powerful machines already, I'd have ordered a base model the moment it went on sale.

JohnDoe98
Jun 14, 2012, 01:13 PM
I want one, but I'll wait for 17" version and wait for them to work out all the kinks.

Lets not forget giving the developers some time to optimize their apps for the retina display. Apps on the New iPad are slowly being updated to support this so we'll see how long it takes for desktop developers to get on board.

There won't be any 17" version. The 17" line is dead, time for you to face that fact.

zeromeus
Jun 14, 2012, 01:13 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

As you might guess, the one it misses by the biggest margin is "inexpensive."

Read the entire article before you complain.

menithings
Jun 14, 2012, 01:13 PM
The whole "expensive" argument is strange to me. The Retina MBP is actually pretty aggressively priced for what you get. Try pricing any other high end Ivy Bridge laptop (Mac or PC) with similar GPU, RAM and flash storage and you'll see that the MBP is actually a decent deal.

Of course you can argue that a platter HD laptop would cost less. But that's not a direct comparison.

sishaw
Jun 14, 2012, 01:14 PM
I couldn't believe the "inexpensive" term used in the review... Did they mean it terms of value for the money, maybe, but I wouldn't call it inexpensive, I would rather call it "invaluable".

No, that's not it, read it again. Keep reading after you get to the word "inexpensive."

spazzcat
Jun 14, 2012, 01:15 PM
I couldn't believe the "inexpensive" term used in the review... Did they mean it terms of value for the money, maybe, but I wouldn't call it inexpensive, I would rather call it "invaluable".

Did you read the review?

wikus
Jun 14, 2012, 01:15 PM
They sacrificed too much for such a small improvement in size and weight.

The fact that it doesnt have a standard 2.5" SSD drive, upgradeable memory, a proprietary SSD drive, etc. will make this thing a pain in the ass to use down the line. The first thing I do whenever I buy a new mac is throw out the internal drive replacing it with my own and upgrading the RAM on my own.

I've been saying Apple is obsessed with imposing limitations on the end user, but this is just insane.

Just take a look at iFixit's tear down;

Step 22:

MacBook Pro with Retina Display 15" Mid 2012 Repairability Score: 1 out of 10 (10 is easiest to repair).

- Proprietary pentalobe screws prevent you from gaining access to anything inside.

- As in the MacBook Air, the RAM is soldered to the logic board. Max out at 16GB now, or forever hold your peace—you can't upgrade.

- The proprietary SSD isn't upgradeable either (yet), as it is similar but not identical to the one in the Air. It is a separate daughtercard, and we’re hopeful we can offer an upgrade in the near future.

- The lithium-polymer battery is glued rather than screwed into the case, which increases the chances that it'll break during disassembly. The battery also covers the trackpad cable, which tremendously increases the chance that the user will shear the cable in the battery removal process.

- The display assembly is completely fused, and there’s no glass protecting it. If anything ever fails inside the display, you will need to replace the entire extremely expensive assembly.

Stente
Jun 14, 2012, 01:15 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

If you read the review - you would know how stupid your comment is.

WildCowboy
Jun 14, 2012, 01:16 PM
What's interesting is that an equivalently-specced (CPU, RAM, storage) regular MacBook Pro is more expensive than a Retina MacBook Pro. Once you throw an SSD into the non-Retina version, the price skyrockets.

cleanton
Jun 14, 2012, 01:18 PM
I want one, but I'll wait for 17" version and wait for them to work out all the kinks.

Lets not forget giving the developers some time to optimize their apps for the retina display. Apps on the New iPad are slowly being updated to support this so we'll see how long it takes for desktop developers to get on board.

17" version is discontinued. It will not come any more.

applegigs
Jun 14, 2012, 01:20 PM
What's interesting is that an equivalently-specced (CPU, RAM, storage) regular MacBook Pro is more expensive than a Retina MacBook Pro. Once you throw an SSD into the non-Retina version, the price skyrockets.

Yeah but the thing is for 2500$ you already got the beast + 400$ for decent SSD it's a take, compared to where the 2199$ + 200$ ram will take you? 256 SSD HDD 2.3 vs 2.7 i7 the only thing that buys me into Retina MBP is the retina and weight and redesign.

Asclepio
Jun 14, 2012, 01:20 PM
http://i49.tinypic.com/2ueiul2.gif

yg17
Jun 14, 2012, 01:20 PM
What's interesting is that an equivalently-specced (CPU, RAM, storage) regular MacBook Pro is more expensive than a Retina MacBook Pro. Once you throw an SSD into the non-Retina version, the price skyrockets.

That's why I got the Retina MBP. I don't care about the retina display, most of the time, the laptop will be attached to my external monitor. But I wanted the SSD, and adding the 512 GB SSD (minimum size I need) to the 15" MBP made it more expensive than the 2.6/512 rMBP. The retina display is just a bonus.

nick_elt
Jun 14, 2012, 01:21 PM
HDMI? +1 Apple!

RoboCop001
Jun 14, 2012, 01:22 PM
The difference in price between the lower 15s is CDN $400 and the top 15s have a difference of CDN $600.

The main differences are the graphics card (on the lower models), the SSD storage, and of course the display.

Personally, I think it's worth it. Yeah it's more expensive, but relative to what you're getting, I'm surprised Apple didn't start the prices a bit higher. Especially considering the SSDs and the display, and especially the top model SSD. For what it is, I wouldn't call it "expensive." I'd call it on par.

I8P'CS
Jun 14, 2012, 01:22 PM
Way to kinda miss the point...

Personally I think that this "expensive" thing is getting a bit old. Yes, they're expensive machines. However, I actually think the price isn't actually that bad for the new model at all. I'd be inclined to say it's actually very good. You're getting a powerhouse of a notebook with an incredible form factor, and incredible display. You're paying extra money for a design that has genuine advantages in usability over both its competition as well as its former self. Expensive is what you get if you want a great machine, it doesn't make it bad value. Are they expecting Apple to sell these for £499?

If it weren't for the fact that I've got two powerful machines already, I'd have ordered a base model the moment it went on sale.


Never said any think about price was just saying that they try to manipulate people that are not tech savvy. yes a great product but main selling point is Retina me i'll wait for the 2nd or 3rd revision as the amount of ssd storage is very small and waiting will see improvements over the current version.

Besides this computer is for pros, but a lot of broke college kids will have this in starbucks searching for jobs.

clukas
Jun 14, 2012, 01:22 PM
Currently I'm not tempted to buy the new MBP, I'm more than happy with my 13". Once apple releases a 13" retina MBP, i might go and upgrade my current one. But I don't see any reason going out and buying one today.

1) Few apps support retina
2) Price will dramatically drop in a few years
3) Why upgrade when your current device does everything you need it? Its unnecessary and harms the environment.

gghootch
Jun 14, 2012, 01:24 PM
I am about to buy a Macbook Pro from the states due to the fact they are cheaper of course :cool: And I am in high doubt which configuration I should go for. I've been waiting to read reviews how the Non Retina compares to the Retina, and people say it's worth the money. I will be using the MBP for photoshop most of the time and Xcode programming while I am not a spec freak I do wanna get the best for the money. So far I have never had a problem of picking up a mac but, now with the Retina Macbook do I really want it ? Do I really need it are two different things. So I went out and made a quick ugly pros and cons picture to stack them up. Tell me what do you think.Image (http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8045/hardone.png)

Thanks in advance!

Cheers Simeon!
Is this a portable desktop or something you're going to be carrying around every day each day?

If the former go with the non-retina, if the latter go with the retina.

Some pro's as to why you should take the retina anyways:

- There's blazingly fast wi-fi anywhere; personally I haven't plugged my macbook into an ethernet port for ages.
- Do you really think you'll need more RAM in the coming five years?
- 2.3 i7 Ghz is plenty for PS & Xcode.
- 256 GB is enough if you're using your machine as a portable. You likely won't store all of your project files on your macbook. In my experience, if you have a bunch of files they tend to end up at some storage device in your office (or the cloud...)

GodWhomIsMike
Jun 14, 2012, 01:26 PM
How about reviews of the models that the rest of us can afford? :mad:

bharatgupta
Jun 14, 2012, 01:26 PM
frankly speaking i love all the software updates, but ever since 4s i m not liking the way apple is rolling out hardware, the loss of steve is imminent here.

firstly they call this era as "post pc", on the second side they price their stuff way beyond average consumer's reach, its a computer, apple "now" shud win market share, steve would have focused n done that if alive.

They r move more n more away from average consumer, this is rich boy's toy clearly the ones who dont even need that extra power, there is no proper "fragmentation" too, this is not what most of apple fans expected

patsfan83
Jun 14, 2012, 01:27 PM
The second knock - which is very legitimate - is that third-party applications that haven't been optimized for retina look atrocious. If you're spending $2100 on a laptop, you shouldn't have to deal with Firefox or Thunderbird or any of hundreds of other programs looking like crap.

There was no way for Apple to address this without giving companies access to the laptop. There will be a period of transition, just like iPhone apps. It's pretty hard to find non-retina apps in the app store nowadays.

bharatgupta
Jun 14, 2012, 01:28 PM
How about reviews of the models that the rest of us can afford? :mad:

trully agree with u and i m pissed off as a pro user too, i cant afford this laptop, clearly apple has good os and hardware and at this point of time that is "post pc era(as told by apple themselves)" they shud be winning market share, they did same shi* at the time of ip 4s launch, look at competition today we hav so many great smartphones, this mb retina is beyond reach of most people.

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 14, 2012, 01:28 PM
In a couple years, people are going to look back at the articles and laugh at the mention of the lack of an optical drive as a weakness. By then, everything will not have an optical drive, including the new ultra-thin iMac.

bmacir
Jun 14, 2012, 01:30 PM
This:

"the least repairable laptop we’ve taken apart"
(http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/13/teardown-of-retina-macbook-pro-finds-low-repairability-with-custom-components/)

is a deal breaker for me...stunning display but no thanks :(

bharatgupta
Jun 14, 2012, 01:31 PM
This:

"the least repairable laptop we’ve taken apart"
(http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/13/teardown-of-retina-macbook-pro-finds-low-repairability-with-custom-components/)

is a deal breaker for me...stunning display but no thanks :(

yeah me too:mad:

ctdonath
Jun 14, 2012, 01:31 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

~$2200 isn't bad. That's the same as I paid years ago for my last computer, an ultraportable (1.7GHz 512MB 50GB 10" Pentium M Sony, still crawling).
Between non-trivial inflation and big industry price drops, that's a helluva machine for a quite reasonable price.

GenesisST
Jun 14, 2012, 01:34 PM
The review wasn't saying that the Macbook Pro is inexpensive, it was saying that being inexpensive is a desirable trait, one that this machine misses by a wide margin. Read more carefully?

I had to read the text a few times to get it. It's a bit ambiguous.

When you bundle "And, of course, inexpensive." with the paragraph above it, it seems like he's saying it is inexpensive.

When you bundle it with the paragraph below it, then you get the real meaning.

Weird style, IMHO... Not that I'm know to be a clear communicator, but then again, I'm not a journalist...

Thunderhawks
Jun 14, 2012, 01:34 PM
They sacrificed too much for such a small improvement in size and weight.

The fact that it doesnt have a standard 2.5" SSD drive, upgradeable memory, a proprietary SSD drive, etc. will make this thing a pain in the ass to use down the line. The first thing I do whenever I buy a new mac is throw out the internal drive replacing it with my own and upgrading the RAM on my own.

I've been saying Apple is obsessed with imposing limitations on the end user, but this is just insane.

Just take a look at iFixit's tear down;

Step 22:

The first thing the majority of users do :

Buy the machine configured the way they want it, so they don't have to open it and do all kinds of things that may void the warranty.

Let alone, that the majority of users do not have the technical knowledge to tinker around in their machines.

These users will not feel or even think about any Apple limitations!

Your post is -as usual- misguided in that this is obviously not a machine for your target group.

To cite ifixit's evaluation as evidence for negatives is weak at best.

With 3 years of Apple Care consumers can get one fine machine without worrying of having to repair anything.

I could understand your constant Apple bashing if you were from a competitor or had created anything we can use.

Until you do create something that is even remotely close to Apple's products, maybe you should refrain from spewing out criticism without offering a better alternative?

applegigs
Jun 14, 2012, 01:34 PM
Is this a portable desktop or something you're going to be carrying around every day each day?

If the former go with the non-retina, if the latter go with the retina.

Some pro's as to why you should take the retina anyways:

- There's blazingly fast wi-fi anywhere; personally I haven't plugged my macbook into an ethernet port for ages.
- Do you really think you'll need more RAM in the coming five years?
- 2.3 i7 Ghz is plenty for PS & Xcode.
- 256 GB is enough if you're using your machine as a portable. You likely won't store all of your project files on your macbook. In my experience, if you have a bunch of files they tend to end up at some storage device in your office (or the cloud...)

I kind-a gave up on the idea of having a desktop computer long time ago. So I use my current (2010 MBP 15") as my everywhere computer work/home vacation. Ethernet you're totally right about don't really remember the last time I've plugged in mine. Most of my projects are on external HDD's running FW800. In terms of 256 gb doesn't really worry me cause the current MBP is modified to 240 gb OWC + 750 GB Optibay. Which I could use without. But yeah to sum up things I think you're totally right about it I really don't need such a beast. Thanks!

eklkrl
Jun 14, 2012, 01:34 PM
This:

"the least repairable laptop we’ve taken apart"
(http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/13/teardown-of-retina-macbook-pro-finds-low-repairability-with-custom-components/)

is a deal breaker for me...stunning display but no thanks :(


Exactly. As someone said above, they've sacrificed too much. They've essentially created a very disposable computer. Not upgradable; not repairable. Any component goes bad, and the advice will be to throw it away and buy another.

They may have scored a number of excellent "green" points with its construction, but the fact that the whole thing is disposable subtracts hugely from any environmental/economic progress.

EvilEvil
Jun 14, 2012, 01:35 PM
How about reviews of the models that the rest of us can afford? :mad:

Doesn't anyone know how to save up money anymore? So what if you can't get it right now. Save up and get it in a few months.

ctdonath
Jun 14, 2012, 01:35 PM
How about reviews of the models that the rest of us can afford? :mad:

What don't you know about an entry-level MB Air or Mac Mini? What's "affordable" to you?

Xscapes
Jun 14, 2012, 01:37 PM
I will definitely get one if Apple later offer the matte screen option. I saw one at the store it reduce able 50-70% glare compare to the old glossy one. But I still love my current anti-glare one with 100% reduced.

bharatgupta
Jun 14, 2012, 01:38 PM
The first thing the majority of users do :


Let alone, that the majority of users do not have the technical knowledge to tinker around in their machines.



its a mac book "pro" for the pro, and it shud be open to options

QCassidy352
Jun 14, 2012, 01:39 PM
What's interesting is that an equivalently-specced (CPU, RAM, storage) regular MacBook Pro is more expensive than a Retina MacBook Pro. Once you throw an SSD into the non-Retina version, the price skyrockets.

Yeah that was the first thing I thought of when I saw the pricing on these. If you want an SSD (and having had them in my last two macs, I'm not going back), the rMBP is a no-brainer. You even get more VRAM on the low end rMBP. But the older model does bring that lower entry price point, which to me is why they kept it (and maybe to not force people to abandon the optical and Ethernet quite yet... But I think it's more the price issue).

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 01:39 PM
- The display assembly is completely fused, and there’s no glass protecting it. If anything ever fails inside the display, you will need to replace the entire extremely expensive assembly.

What do you mean by the display assembly is fused? Also how would apple fix it ,the same if the battery is fused to the board.

Trying to remove the battery that dies out would damage the board.

ctdonath
Jun 14, 2012, 01:42 PM
In a couple years, people are going to look back at the articles and laugh at the mention of the lack of an optical drive as a weakness. By then, everything will not have an optical drive, including the new ultra-thin iMac.

We saw the exact same banter when the floppy disk drive disappeared.

(In irony, my not-old work Dell has a floppy drive. And a Centronix printer port. And PS/2 keyboard & mouse ports. I do use the serial port for legacy product maintenance. And I'm annoyed that so much space is wasted on all of them; give me a screaming processor with one USB3 & one HDMI port + wireless everything else.)

QCassidy352
Jun 14, 2012, 01:42 PM
its a mac book "pro" for the pro, and it shud be open to options

People always get hung up on that word. It's just a name, and the original point was to distinguish it from the regular MacBook. It doesn't mean anything.

applegigs
Jun 14, 2012, 01:43 PM
What do you mean by the display assembly is fused? Also how would apple fix it ,the same if the battery is fused to the board.

Trying to remove the battery that dies out would damage the board.

Yeah cracking the display used to end up with buying 30 euros glass and replacing it.. now it's the display with the glass.. I terms of replacing the battery shouldn't be as bad.. Think of it as the iPhone 4/4S a bit glue to the bottom nothing a good 5-10 minutes extra can't get out.

SD449
Jun 14, 2012, 01:43 PM
What's interesting is that an equivalently-specced (CPU, RAM, storage) regular MacBook Pro is more expensive than a Retina MacBook Pro. Once you throw an SSD into the non-Retina version, the price skyrockets.

This

vpro
Jun 14, 2012, 01:44 PM
I love this innovation and fast forward motion!

A great preview so I love the quote by Harry McCracken. Sums it up very nicely and realistically. This is the preview of beautiful things to come for mac!

When the 17" models make it back to the lime light I will return, sell or gift my nephew, who is going into medicine, the 15" model.

Exciting - exciting times ahead and mac is leading the way, sweet !

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 01:44 PM
The second knock - which is very legitimate - is that third-party applications that haven't been optimized for retina look atrocious. If you're spending $2100 on a laptop, you shouldn't have to deal with Firefox or Thunderbird or any of hundreds of other programs looking like crap.

This is more an early adopter issue than a glaring flaw in the design of the machine. In about 6 months to a year, this won't be a problem.

ctdonath
Jun 14, 2012, 01:47 PM
its a mac book "pro" for the pro, and it shud be open to options

Opening it to options means sacrificing size, weight, cost, reliability, capacity, etc.

It's not the only model. It's "pro" because it's a price-is-no-object "buy it and forget it" maximization of every feature except replaceable modularization. It's for the pros who will use it to make money, who will think nothing of buying another should this one prove inadequate for any reason, who don't have time to waste tinkering. If you want more post-purchase flexibility, buy another model which has sacrificed something else in favor of that option.

Fraaaa
Jun 14, 2012, 01:48 PM
Exactly. As someone said above, they've sacrificed too much. They've essentially created a very disposable computer. Not upgradable; not repairable. Any component goes bad, and the advice will be to throw it away and buy another.

They may have scored a number of excellent "green" points with its construction, but the fact that the whole thing is disposable subtracts hugely from any environmental/economic progress.

Except that Apple would likely give you a new one if anything happens.

GTRichey
Jun 14, 2012, 01:48 PM
The second knock - which is very legitimate - is that third-party applications that haven't been optimized for retina look atrocious. If you're spending $2100 on a laptop, you shouldn't have to deal with Firefox or Thunderbird or any of hundreds of other programs looking like crap.

Saying this is a point against the machine is entirely wrong. I can understand if you say that it'd be a good idea to wait until developers update their apps, but your statement as is essentially implies that innovation is bad. With this line of thinking we'd still be watching TV in 4:3 aspect ratio and movies would be distributed on VHS. Of course third party applications aren't optimised for a 2880x1800 pixel screens or 220ppi, because such screens didn't exist for them to optimise for a week ago!

bjm2660
Jun 14, 2012, 01:48 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

hmmm….

G5isAlive
Jun 14, 2012, 01:49 PM
Exactly. As someone said above, they've sacrificed too much. They've essentially created a very disposable computer. Not upgradable; not repairable. Any component goes bad, and the advice will be to throw it away and buy another.


Don't you mean sacrificed too much for you? Maybe to someone else, like myself they made the correct sacrifices to give me a light weight high performance computer.

We don't know what the repair policy will be. I know that my MacAir which is similar in design concept (minimalist) had a problem with USB ports, they sent it in, I got a new mother board but everything else was the same. One component needed fixing, it was not disposed of. Yes that means I had applecare. Another expense.

nagromme
Jun 14, 2012, 01:50 PM
How about reviews of the models that the rest of us can afford? :mad:

You’re in luck! The second review quoted says "You can't ignore the Air as an amazing piece of machinery, especially with the new, higher-powered Ivy Bridge processors and faster SSDs tucked inside its wedge profile.”

But this MR story is about the retina model, so it’s not the place to expect a lot of reviews of other models.

Mr. Retrofire
Jun 14, 2012, 01:50 PM
I honestly don't know how anyone could give this a negative review. Even if you personally don't like it, it's one helluva nice laptop.
For rich kids.

doobybiggs
Jun 14, 2012, 01:51 PM
Clearly, because the very next line read:
"the one it misses by the biggest margin is “inexpensive.”"

It's clearer in the article what Pogue is getting at. The area where the Retina MBP misses the mark of a "perfect laptop" is in the pricing.

This ^^^

There is no way old 15" MBPs went for $1500ish and now with Retina there is more than a $600 price jump ... retina is cool and all, but they need to quit raping the customers.

I could see the 2 MBP 15" models going for something like $1750 and 1950 but over 2 grand? ... thats tough to explain to customers.

McG2k1
Jun 14, 2012, 01:53 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

haha I know right? I immediately click on the comments to see how lol'd this statement would be!

petsounds
Jun 14, 2012, 01:54 PM
These Retina MBPs are so beefy, I'm not sure what'd you want to upgrade except the SSD. Unfortunately Apple doesn't let you increase the size of the SSD on the low-end Retina, which is surprising.

My main concern about buying a Retina now is, surely these will take over next year as the main MBP lineup, and the old-gen MBPs will be phased out. To do that, the base price of the Retina will have to drop $400, and thus your resale value will instantly drop that much as well.

Not counting that, I think the Retina MBP is a great value. The equivalent last-gen is $400 less, but comes with half of both the main RAM and video RAM, a slow 5400rpm drive, no Retina display, and none of the weight reduction. $2200 is completely reasonable for this machine.

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 01:55 PM
For rich kids.

I can understand a few issues some people have with the new Pro. Not being able to swap out ram and drives easily being the biggest one. But this? It's the exact same price as the old 15" model. What makes the slim model more of a rich kid's toy than the fatter one was before?

aliennerd
Jun 14, 2012, 01:55 PM
I understand Chrome has already been retinized and no doubt more will follow.

As usual Apple is forcing change and we should be thankful for that, I dread to think how depressingly boring computers would still be had Jobs not turned Apple round.

It seems that these forums are full of people who Apple doesn't design computers for moaning that Apple hasn't designed a computer for them.

Mr. Retrofire
Jun 14, 2012, 01:58 PM
Opening it to options means sacrificing size, weight, cost, reliability, capacity, etc.
No, because you have no proof.

The Sandy Bridge MBA supports third party SSDs (OWC). Many Windows-based Ultrabooks support third party SSDs and RAM.

----------

It's the exact same price as the old 15" model.
Same price? No.

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 01:58 PM
It seems that these forums are full of people who Apple doesn't design computers for moaning that Apple hasn't designed a computer for them.

I know. The gall of some people, huh?

:cracks whip: YOU STAY IN YOUR NICHE, FOOLS!


Same price? No.

Man...you're gonna force me to do math, aren't you? :mad:

JustMartin
Jun 14, 2012, 02:01 PM
Okay as there's already 2 posts talking about the "inexpensive" quote so just to let people know:

If you've come here to talk about the "inexpensive" quote please read the sentence that follows.

And people that can't manage the trek from one sentence to another will read this far? :)

Ammy77
Jun 14, 2012, 02:03 PM
OK. Very Good. Now, how about that 17" Retina Display??

a.gomez
Jun 14, 2012, 02:04 PM
still no idea what this nonsense is for. only benefit so far is that the 17 antiglare 1920X1200 can be had cheaper before they vanish.

ordered another one for myself and the office.

AustinIllini
Jun 14, 2012, 02:04 PM
ok. Very good. Now, how about that 17" retina display??

$3000

But seriously, I wonder how big the laptop would have to get where it would no longer sell as it is prohibitively expensive.

homeward
Jun 14, 2012, 02:08 PM
Arn - Why did you leave out the opening sentence of David Pogue's review - this is the sentence that immediately precedes all those glowing adjectives:
"If you could design your dream laptop, how would you describe it?" ..
blah, blah, blah, and of course, inexpensive......
He then goes on to say, as many readers have mentioned, that the Mac has all these traits EXCEPT inexpensive.
By your leaving out the first sentence, you have created a maelstrom.

rikscha
Jun 14, 2012, 02:15 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

People these days are not too bright anymore. There is a big difference between expensive and something that has a high price tag.
The new MBP is not expensive, you paying exactly what this kind of machine is worth, although it does require to put a lot of money on the table. These two things are different, otherwise buying a house would be expensive by definition.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 02:19 PM
The second knock - which is very legitimate - is that third-party applications that haven't been optimized for retina look atrocious. If you're spending $2100 on a laptop, you shouldn't have to deal with Firefox or Thunderbird or any of hundreds of other programs looking like crap.

If Apple followed that logic we would never have had a Retina iPhone or iPad. Developers aren't going to spontaneously upgrade their apps for ultra-high resolution if there are no machines to display all those pixels.

Upgraded apps will come thick and fast, anyway.

scottsjack
Jun 14, 2012, 02:19 PM
The new Pro looks like a really great laptop. I can see why they're selling so well.

For me fashionably thin, and "latest" doesn't do much. I would still buy a MBP 15 because I use FW800 and Ethernet at least a couple of times each week for file transferring and fast communication between my various Mac.

I don't use the optical drive all that much any more simply because my MP is faster at decrypting my DVDs. And it has BR.

I prefer powerful laptops so a performance model even slightly thicker than the current MBPs, with room for two HDDs as well as optical would be me a wishlist choice.

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 02:20 PM
We saw the exact same banter when the floppy disk drive disappeared.

(In irony, my not-old work Dell has a floppy drive. And a Centronix printer port. And PS/2 keyboard & mouse ports. I do use the serial port for legacy product maintenance. And I'm annoyed that so much space is wasted on all of them; give me a screaming processor with one USB3 & one HDMI port + wireless everything else.)

May be Apple is leading the way of the future for CD/DVD combo drives.But PC's are sill lagging behind with not removing it :eek:so the market is not ready at these for PC's.I'm sure alot PC people that are anti- apple are going really make fun of this for the computer being very costly and top of the line Pro computer and just for the fact that it does not have it.

Also older people less computer literate will not know what do . Part of the problem is Microsoft does not have app store like Apple does.

And when most people think of app store they think it for the iOS not OS X or windows.

So the market has not revolutionized like apple has done thus people are confused.


Bad advertising , promoting and slow Microsoft to think new .May be in year or two Microsoft will have app store like apple.

May be in year or two there be big trend for all software and games for windows or OSX to be at the app store be it at apple app store or Microsoft app store for windows or OSX not just iOS.

tigress666
Jun 14, 2012, 02:20 PM
I honestly don't know how anyone could give this a negative review. Even if you personally don't like it, it's one helluva nice laptop.

Too expensive for what you get?

Only useful for a certain crowd (I am betting I'd agree with the one that said for the constantly on the go crowd it might be good but for everyone else the regular pro is probably enough, especially for the price and you still get an ethernet port and CD-Rom).

Not saying it's a bad machine, but for the price I am guessing that really it's only worth it to a certain crowd. I know my 13" isn't too bad for travelling (Granted it's also smaller due to being a 13" ;) ).

Anyways, I probably wouldn't mind one if I had a lot of money (which I don't). And if I were deciding between a 15" MBP and the retina one, I might go for the retina one (especially if I were to go with the top end of each cause apparently if you deck out both, the retina one is cheaper). Though honestly, the fact I can easily upgrade the regular one might sway me to just go with it (unless I was going for all the add ons in which case the savings of money to buy the retina one might make up for the fact I couldn't upgrade the retina one).

rmwebs
Jun 14, 2012, 02:23 PM
In a nutshell, all reviews say:

It's expensive, in fact its very expensive (aka a rip off), but if you buy it, you'll be happy as long as you aren't expecting it to be as light as an Air.

...

I was very tempted to get one, mainly because I can hook it up to 2 screens, not for the retina option. Its the only portable Mac laptop that can be hooked up to two screens that are NOT the overpriced Apple thunderbolt displays.

I really couldn't justify the harsh price tag though, so will hold out for the next one.

dBeats
Jun 14, 2012, 02:23 PM
its a mac book "pro" for the pro, and it shud be open to options

Pro as in professional photographer or videographer. They're still users, not administrators or people who even remotely care about the insides of a laptop. Nor should they, since they are already professionals at what they do.

Gregintosh
Jun 14, 2012, 02:26 PM
One of these days the lottery numbers will be in my favour... :(

You don't need to win the lottery, you just need a decent job. $1999 (with student discount, and I am sure you have a student in your family somewhere) is just $83 per month.

If you work a full time job, you need a raise of about 48 cents per hour to pay for it without hurting your budget at all.

Or you can mow 4 neighbors lawns for $20 each on weekends, and you're just about there.

I know what you meant by the quote, but its gets a little annoying when people try to perpetuate the myth that Apple products are just for the ultra rich. If a computer is important to you, then even lower to middle class people can find room in their budgets for it.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 02:26 PM
Too expensive for what you get?

What you get is a machine as powerful as the non-Retina Pros, but with 3 million more pixels than an HDTV. How is that too expensive for what you get? I agree that it's very pricey, but the technology is astounding and unprecedented.

Only useful for a certain crowd

You mean the crowd that has decent eyesight? That's a pretty big crowd.

ahfu25
Jun 14, 2012, 02:29 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

Why was this down voted? For me and many the new MBP is expensive.

Lestdog
Jun 14, 2012, 02:29 PM
It certainly meets the "Cool" factor but I agree with Ross Miller.... you'll still be waiting a long time for developers to update apps. Some may not even bother..

I wonder if companies like Autodesk will even care to update at all.

I couldn't wait for the iPhone & iPad retina displays... for some reason I just don't care enough about the laptop. Maybe because it's so expensive?

scamp24
Jun 14, 2012, 02:30 PM
What do you mean by the display assembly is fused? Also how would apple fix it ,the same if the battery is fused to the board.

Trying to remove the battery that dies out would damage the board.

Applecare. One of the reasons I'll never buy another PC. A lot of you seem to forget this. If something goes wrong and you walk into an Apple Store, I can promise you they're not going to advise you to buy another one.

Unless, of course, your imprudent self tried to remove the battery.

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 02:32 PM
$3000

But seriously, I wonder how big the laptop would have to get where it would no longer sell as it is prohibitively expensive.

May be why apple did not bring out 17 ich is the cost would be $3,000 or $4,000 so they going give it time for price to come down.

foiden
Jun 14, 2012, 02:32 PM
The most fun with this topic was seeing people react to the first review like a lot of YouTube commenters do. They read the first half of the text, skip to the comment section and make a comment on it without reading what the review was really saying. I wonder if the guy, who wrote the article, was doing that on purpose to completely troll the impatient reader.

Congratulations! You've just been Pogue'd!

Still, I think they reflect my thoughts upon seeing this new Macbook Pro model. It's nice in a lot of ways, but going above $2,000 just seems steep. You really start to ask yourself whether you really want to spend that much on any kind of laptop. On the other hand, if it indeed can churn out some professional work, I can see the Pro editors being fine with it given they'll make that money back. Some video guys, and especially photographers are probably drooling at the thing, for good reason.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 02:32 PM
You don't need to win the lottery, you just need a decent job. $1999 (with student discount, and I am sure you have a student in your family somewhere) is just $83 per month.

If you work a full time job, you need a raise of about 48 cents per hour to pay for it without hurting your budget at all.

Or you can mow 4 neighbors lawns for $20 each on weekends, and you're just about there.

I know what you meant by the quote, but its gets a little annoying when people try to perpetuate the myth that Apple products are just for the ultra rich. If a computer is important to you, then even lower to middle class people can find room in their budgets for it.

That's a pretty arrogant response, IMO. A computer may be important to someone, but giving his or her children an education may be important too, or getting medical treatment, or buying healthy food, etc. etc. To say that "even lower to middle class people can find room in their budgets for" a Retina MacBook Pro is very condescending.

I love Apple products, but they are expensive and far more accessible to the wealthy than less fortunate people. They're worth the money, but in a perfect world they would be cheaper so more people could enjoy them.

ahfu25
Jun 14, 2012, 02:34 PM
I'm not saying its not worth the price, but just that I would have to spend that dollar amount on one. If and when I can afford one I would def buy the new MBP

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 02:34 PM
Why was this down voted? For me and many the new MBP is expensive.

It was down voted because in the very next paragraph it became clear the writer was not saying the RMBP was inexpensive.

foiden
Jun 14, 2012, 02:36 PM
It was down voted because in the very next paragraph it became clear the writer was not saying the RMBP was inexpensive.

To tell the truth, they are missing an important button in the voting system. They need an up button, a down button, and a funny button. Press that to vote on how funny the message is. :)

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 02:37 PM
Applecare. One of the reasons I'll never buy another PC. A lot of you seem to forget this. If something goes wrong and you walk into an Apple Store, I can promise you they're not going to advise you to buy another one.

Unless, of course, your imprudent self tried to remove the battery.

But I'm sure Apple must have way of removing it ? If every thing is glued or soldered they are not going give you know board just because the hard-drive , RAM or battery gone bad.

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 02:37 PM
May be Apple is leading the way of the future for CD/DVD combo drives.But PC's are sill lagging behind with not removing it :eek: so the market is not ready at these for PC's.I'm sure alot PC people that are anti- apple are going really make fun of this for the computer being very costly and top of the line Pro computer and just for the fact that it does not have it.

I don't understand why some of you think that taking away an option is "leading people into the future". Optical drives I can understand to a point, but all the various ports Apple keeps nixing to refine the "sleekness" of their machines? Their leading the way into the future quote unquote just makes things more difficult for some people.

Also older people less computer literate will not know what do . Part of the problem is Microsoft does not have app store like Apple does.

Bad advertising , promoting and slow Microsoft to think new .May be in year or two Microsoft will have app store like apple.

Try 4-5 months or thereabout for the big public release. I've been downloading apps off their app store for about three months now.

homeward
Jun 14, 2012, 02:39 PM
Why was this down voted? For me and many the new MBP is expensive.

It was voted down because the first line of the review which had been omitted was:
"If you could design your dream laptop, how would you describe it?" ..
He then goes on to say MBP is NOT inexpensive.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 02:39 PM
It certainly meets the "Cool" factor but I agree with Ross Miller.... you'll still be waiting a long time for developers to update apps. Some may not even bother..

I wonder if companies like Autodesk will even care to update at all.

Are you kidding? It will work like it does on the iOS app store. Developers want their apps to look great, and they want them to sell. Why would they let their apps be usurped by Retina-capable competitors?

If I were a developer I'd be thrilled to have such a beautiful canvas to work with.

Also, Mac developers know by now that every Mac will have a Retina display within a couple of years.

K42
Jun 14, 2012, 02:40 PM
OK. Very Good. Now, how about that 17" Retina Display??

Of course a retina display is fancy, but I mainly wonder whether a 15" retina display can make up for the lost screen real estate of the (matte) 17". "Lost" in in terms of being equally useful for doing real work all day long, not in terms of pixel count. And also because it looks like Apple is not going to offer a 17" anymore.

I am writing this on my 17", and the characters are small enough as they are.

I guess it is going to be a while before I buy a new laptop. Let's see what we have a few years down the road. Be it from Apple of otherwise.

Marx55
Jun 14, 2012, 02:40 PM
"It's got less glare than previous MacBook Pro screens"

WOW, How could they do it?
Hint: matte screens have no glare!!!

skywalkerr69
Jun 14, 2012, 02:40 PM
No, that's not it, read it again. Keep reading after you get to the word "inexpensive."

It's like saying "Wow that 2012 Ferrari is amazing....but its $125,000."

Konrad
Jun 14, 2012, 02:43 PM
Only adding a $200 retina option to a regular 15 inch would illustrate what the market really wants.

iRobby
Jun 14, 2012, 02:43 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

Read the full article it is a play on words:



June 13, 2012
MacBook, a Point Shy of Perfect
By DAVID POGUE


If you could design your dream laptop, how would you describe it?

Superfast. Superthin. Superlight. Superlong battery life. Immense storage. Enough memory to keep lots of programs open at once. Stunning screen, comfortable keyboard, terrific sound. Fast start-up, rugged body, gorgeous looks.

And, of course, inexpensive.

The new Apple laptop that went on sale Monday hits an impressive number of those high notes in one radical swoop. As you might guess, the one it misses by the biggest margin is “inexpensive.”

Then again, the new 15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display is intended for professionals — photographers, video editors, musicians and other people whose laptop is the heart of everyday work. If they can scrounge up $2,200 (for the base model) to $3,750 (for the died-and-gone-to-heaven model), they’ll be well rewarded.

And if the early online reaction is any indication, a lot of them are already scrounging — if they’re not too busy mopping the drool from their chins.

It’s been four years since Apple last redesigned its laptops. In that time, a funny thing happened to the computer industry: the MacBook Air. It’s a crazy thin aluminum wedge, two-thirds of an inch at its thickest point, that weighs very little, starts up very quickly and turns a lot of heads.

Apple achieved those goals by throwing out some then-standard features. A DVD drive. An Ethernet jack. And, most alarmingly of all, a hard drive.

Instead of the traditional spinning platters of a hard drive, the MacBook Air has flash storage — memory chips that store all your programs and files even when the computer is turned off.

Flash storage has a number of benefits. It’s rugged, because there are no moving parts. It’s fast, especially in starting the computer and opening programs. It saves battery power, because there are no mechanical discs to spin. It’s silent. And it’s tiny, so the laptop itself can be thinner.

But flash drives are much, much more expensive than spinning hard drives. The prices are falling steadily, but flash storage won’t match the capacity of a hard drive for the same price any time soon.

Anyway, despite its price (now $1,000 and up), the MacBook Air eventually became popular, and now you can get beautiful, thin Windows laptops, called ultrabooks, built on the same concept.

All of this brings us to the new MacBook Pro. Apple evidently felt that the price and capacity of flash storage had finally reached a point where it could replace hard drives in the company’s pro laptops; indeed, for $500 above the base price, you can get the new machine with a 768-gigabyte flash drive. That’s not quite as much storage as you can get on the existing MacBook Pro in hard drive form (1 terabyte), but it’s not cramped.

With no hard drive or DVD drive, Apple could make the new machine much thinner and lighter than its predecessor, which Apple still sells (for $400 less). The new laptop is only 0.7 inch thick — about the same as the fat end of a MacBook Air — and weighs 4.5 pounds. It’s not the thinnest or lightest 15-incher (the Samsung Series 9 is fractionally thinner and 0.8 pound lighter, for example), but it’s easily one-handable.

Apple calls the new machine the “most beautiful computer we’ve ever made.” The MacBook Air begs to differ. Even so, this new laptop certainly is pretty; it wouldn’t even make it past the lobby of the Ugly Museum Hall of Fame.

The guts are top of the line and sizzling fast: the latest quad-core Intel processor, Bluetooth 4.0, a memory card slot and a cooling fan that has asymmetrical blades. That’s to make the fan quieter, since irregular blades spread the air noise over multiple frequencies. (Wow, Apple — perfectionist much?)

I didn’t sit there with a stopwatch, but I can attest that the “7-hour” battery easily lasts a full day of work, provided you break for lunch and a couple of phone calls. An HDMI jack appears on this Mac for the first time, for one-cable connection to TV sets and projectors (there is no traditional video jack).

It also has terrific-sounding, powerful stereo speakers and dual microphones. Why dual? Because dictation — talk-to-type — is a new feature in the coming version of the Mac OS, Mountain Lion. Apple says that two mikes offer better background-noise elimination when you’re speaking.

But you know what? Innards, schminnards. The headline component of the new MacBook Pro will hit you between the eyes the minute you open its lid: a Retina display.

That’s Apple’s term for a screen with such high resolution — so many tiny dots — that you can’t make out individual pixels, even if you smash your face against the glass like a loon. Retina displays already distinguish the latest iPhone and iPad models, but this is the first real computer to get one, and it really is eye-popping.

The resolution of this screen is 2,880 by 1,800 pixels. That’s 5.1 million tiny dots, compared with 1 million or 2 million on a typical 15-inch laptop. It’s the highest-resolution laptop screen in the world.

Videos, photos and text benefit from this astonishingly sharp screen. But keep in mind that your programs won’t look any sharper until they’re updated for the Retina screen. The standard Apple apps have been updated, or will be shortly: Safari, Mail, Aperture, iMovie, Final Cut, iPhoto. Updates for Photoshop and Autodesk are on the way.

Even in most nonupdated programs, menus, dialogue boxes and typed text get sharpened automatically. But in a few programs, text looks jagged and awful on the Retina screen. Amazon Kindle Reader, the Barnes & Noble reader and Chrome fall in this category. (Amazon and Google say an update is on the way; Barnes & Noble hasn’t promised anything, but an update is a good bet.)

That wait-for-updates business doesn’t add up to much of an objection to this dream machine. But other disappointments may.

For example, this laptop has only two USB jacks. True, they’re combination USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 — you can plug in either kind of gadget, and the laptop automatically gives you the best possible speed and power. But rival laptops have more USB jacks.

As though to compensate, you get two Thunderbolt jacks, which are supposed to be high-speed miracle connectors for hard drives, screens and other add-ons. Unfortunately, there aren’t many yet.

Remember, too, that this MacBook Air-inspired laptop lacks both a DVD drive and an Ethernet jack. Apple says that Wi-Fi is everywhere now, and if you want to watch a movie, you can stream it from the Internet.

Frankly, that’s a typically too-soon Apple conclusion. Wi-Fi isn’t everywhere, and lots of movies aren’t available legally for streaming. (Ever fly on a plane? You can’t stream any movies at all if the flight doesn’t have Wi-Fi.) As a workaround, you can buy an external DVD drive ($80) and Ethernet adapter ($30).

Final bummer: the new MacBook’s svelte figure demanded a new power-cord design. Apple’s MagSafe connector has always been a perk of its laptops: the power cord attaches magnetically, so you don’t drag the computer off the desk when you trip on its cord. All MacBooks had the same MagSafe connector.

Not anymore. The new MacBook (and this week’s updated MacBook Air) requires a narrower MagSafe connector. Earlier power adapters won’t fit this laptop (at least without Apple’s $10 adapter), and vice versa — a crushing disappointment to anyone who’s paid $80 each for power cords to keep in different places.

How does the new laptop fare on the Ultimate Laptop Wish List? Extremely well. It tops the charts on screen, keyboard, sound, start-up time, looks, battery life and fast/thin/light. It can have copious memory (up to 16 gigabytes) and storage, for a handsome fee.

Inexpensive? Not even close. But as with cars, homes and partners, you can’t have everything. Professionals, commence your scrounging.

E-mail: pogue@nytimes.com

TheJordanRiver
Jun 14, 2012, 02:44 PM
I can't wait to visit the Apple store this tomorrow to look at this beauty :)

Konrad
Jun 14, 2012, 02:44 PM
It's like saying "Wow that 2012 Ferrari is amazing....but its $125,000."

You can't buy a 2012 Ferrari for $125K.

astroceanomy
Jun 14, 2012, 02:45 PM
:mad: Things which I don't like about the new MacBook Pro Retina

1- Most applications are still not Retina supported..

2- I've noticed some of the drivers are missing, like

A- Optical Disk drive
B- The lock protection is missing
C- The IR drive is missing.. I can no longer use my remote
D- The Ethernet port is missing... it's very important
E- The battery level indicator is missing

Up to now, the standard MacBook Pro is more practical.

ShiftyPig
Jun 14, 2012, 02:46 PM
Saying this is a point against the machine is entirely wrong. I can understand if you say that it'd be a good idea to wait until developers update their apps, but your statement as is essentially implies that innovation is bad. With this line of thinking we'd still be watching TV in 4:3 aspect ratio and movies would be distributed on VHS. Of course third party applications aren't optimised for a 2880x1800 pixel screens or 220ppi, because such screens didn't exist for them to optimise for a week ago!

I never implied that it would never get fixed. But it is definitely something that people need to be alerted to before throwing down over $2K today versus waiting four months. That's why reviews exist.

It's no different than if you bought a Ferrari and on the way out the door the salesperson mentioned, "Well, we're using a new gearbox and you have first through third right now. We'll get back to you over the next few months with four through six." That isn't acceptable. Getting fixed - yes. However, it *is* a negative at the time of review.

zeromeus
Jun 14, 2012, 02:47 PM
I don't care too much about retina. I was really disappointed that there was no thinner, lighter 13" MBP. I decided to go with the 13" MBA instead. Now that I'm thinking about it.. I should have waited a little bit longer for the 13" MBPR to come out which I had originally thought would be released in Oct. before this article was posted.

skywalkerr69
Jun 14, 2012, 02:47 PM
Applecare. One of the reasons I'll never buy another PC. A lot of you seem to forget this. If something goes wrong and you walk into an Apple Store, I can promise you they're not going to advise you to buy another one.

Unless, of course, your imprudent self tried to remove the battery.

What? You go on newegg and spend .00000000001% of the cost of Applecare for a replacement part for a PC.

macpeter
Jun 14, 2012, 02:48 PM
Okay as there's already 2 posts talking about the "inexpensive" quote so just to let people know:

If you've come here to talk about the "inexpensive" quote please read the sentence that follows.

... because the quote from the New York Times omits the title and very first line of David Pogue's article:

MacBook, a Point Shy of Perfect

If you could design your dream laptop, how would you describe it?

Pogue is exactly making the case that the new retina display macbook is perfect in every respect you'd wish for but one: namely it IS expensive lol.

marmotmammal
Jun 14, 2012, 02:48 PM
It's expensive, especially the 16gb RAM options. I've been comparing PC laptops for video editing, and the ones that can accommodate 16gb RAM are also expensive. Then if I switch to Premiere Pro that's expensive, unless I use Lightworks, which won't get me any gigs.

Overall, the Retina laptop and video software (I already own FCPX) isn't a bad deal, and Retina/FCPX could become very popular. I'll probably get Aperture too since it's Retina-compatible and cheap. I'm concerned about the 1gb VRAM, but if I can squeeze three years out of this laptop, that's OK.

I think there's a viable future with Retina, and I'm certain the Windoze community is eyeing it.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 02:49 PM
I can't wait to visit the Apple store this tomorrow to look at this beauty :)

I saw it yesterday and the display is mind-boggling, but the sleekness of the machine was a revelation also. Love the way they kept the already beautiful unibody design and just made it even better.

On another note, this machine is very fast and powerful, runs OS X and is priced for pros, not general consumers. So I really don't want to see posts complaining that Apple isn't interested in the pro market anymore. Yes, I know, the Mac Pro update was a letdown, but at least we know that a new one is coming eventually.

Ubuntu
Jun 14, 2012, 02:51 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

Should have read the next paragraph, at least.




And, of course, inexpensive.

The new Apple laptop that went on sale Monday hits an impressive number of those high notes in one radical swoop. As you might guess, the one it misses by the biggest margin is "inexpensive."


I think he was trying to catch the reader's eye by making it appear that he was suggesting that it was inexpensive, as it's a controversial claim.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 02:52 PM
Of course a retina display is fancy, but I mainly wonder whether a 15" retina display can make up for the lost screen real estate of the (matte) 17". "Lost" in in terms of being equally useful for doing real work all day long, not in terms of pixel count. And also because it looks like Apple is not going to offer a 17" anymore.

I am writing this on my 17", and the characters are small enough as they are.

I guess it is going to be a while before I buy a new laptop. Let's see what we have a few years down the road. Be it from Apple of otherwise.

You can run it with as much desktop space as the previous high-res option, or the 17" format as well, IIRC--not as sharp, but still much better than the non-Retina models.

JHankwitz
Jun 14, 2012, 02:52 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

The 1990 Mac IIfx had no monitor, a 40MB (not GB) hard drive, ran at 40MH w/4MB (not GB) of RAM, and cost $9,900. You could get additional RAM and HD space for a total of $12,000. That was expensive. This new MacBook Pro Retina is relatively very inexpensive.

URFloorMatt
Jun 14, 2012, 02:55 PM
C- The IR drive is missing.. I can no longer use my remoteWhile I'm somewhat sympathetic to most of the complaints about removed features, this change I welcome with open arms. I am incredibly sick and tired of iTunes firing up and playing whenever I go to use my Apple TV.

If I want to control iTunes via remote, I'll use the Remote app.

AustinIllini
Jun 14, 2012, 02:57 PM
The 1990 Mac IIfx had no monitor, a 40MB (not GB) hard drive, ran at 40MH w/4MB (not GB) of RAM, and cost $9,900. You could get additional RAM and HD space for a total of $12,000. That was expensive. This new MacBook Pro Retina is relatively very inexpensive.

"Relatively" and "very" don't really go together well.

You can't possibly believe that. The value of the parts is so much lower now. Everything is cheaper to acquire, build, and the software is made efficiently. It is an expensive computer, period.

JHankwitz
Jun 14, 2012, 02:57 PM
What? You go on newegg and spend .00000000001% of the cost of Applecare for a replacement part for a PC.

And how much do you need to pay to know which part needs to be replaced? Degrees in computer electronics and repair don't come cheep. AppleCare is far less expensive.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 03:00 PM
:mad: Things which I don't like about the new MacBook Pro Retina

1- Most applications are still not Retina supported..

It's three days since the thing was released!!! You wanted developers to sell Retina apps when there was no Retina Mac to use them on?

2- I've noticed some of the drivers are missing, like

A- Optical Disk drive
B- The lock protection is missing
C- The IR drive is missing.. I can no longer use my remote
D- The Ethernet port is missing... it's very important
E- The battery level indicator is missing

I noticed the floppy drive is missing too, damn it! You know, tech changes. If the Ethernet port is very important to you, buy an adapter. Within a year or two, most laptops will not have optical drives, or Ethernet ports, so perhaps you should get used to it.

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 03:02 PM
I don't understand why some of you think that taking away an option is "leading people into the future". Optical drives I can understand to a point, but all the various ports Apple keeps nixing to refine the "sleekness" of their machines? Their leading the way into the future quote unquote just makes things more difficult for some people.



Try 4-5 months or thereabout for the big public release. I've been downloading apps off their app store for about three months now.

The future of Optical drives will be like floppy very old relics.It just that apple moves fast and PC's move very slow so it be some time before this happan with PC's.

No one yells and screams that the iPhone ,iPad and Macbook air does not have optical drives .

But PC's still do not have app store like apple does . So there is lack of advertising and promoting to get apps at the app store and to educate the public that does not know what will happen when optical drives are gone.

Has for floppy they got replaced with USB drives and external hard-drive. I did put alot my data on CD and DVD but CD and DVD I ran into so many problems with disk getting damage and errors on the disk and the fact I would have to have CD and DVD has large has my room do to they do not old much now thanks to USB drives and external hard-drive.

icarlos
Jun 14, 2012, 03:02 PM
I'll wait for the next revision, hopefully by Christmas :D

Mr. McMac
Jun 14, 2012, 03:03 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

Am I the only one who agrees with you? It's freaking way too expensive!!

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 03:04 PM
I'll wait for the next revision, hopefully by Christmas :D

13" well before Christmas, then revision of both some time next year.

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 03:04 PM
I noticed the floppy drive is missing too, damn it! You know, tech changes. If the Ethernet port is very important to you, buy an adapter. Within a year or two, most laptops will not have optical drives, or Ethernet ports, so perhaps you should get used to it.

How can you even snarkily compare a floppy drive to an ethernet port? Wifi has yet to come even close to matching it for pure speed. If you want to move large files between machines and not take two years short of forever, you're going to want to use a wired ethernet connection.

Oh, I guess he could always buy a dongle. That's totally futuristic and convenient, right? Having to carry around an extra piece of hardware to compensate for the lack of a still current and widely used piece of tech.

Yeah. Floppy drives. Right.



But PC's still do not have app store like apple does . So there is lack of advertising and promoting to get apps at the app store and to educate the public that does not know what will happen when optical drives are gone.



Which is a situation that's very soon to be remedied. The app store in the Windows 8 release preview is currently open to early submissions. The store itself will go live with Win8's release later this year.

So no, it's not here yet. But it's not too far off.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 03:05 PM
Am I the only one who agrees with you? It's freaking way too expensive!!

Oh, brother. Reading more than one sentence at a time is going out of fashion, I guess. :(

vastoholic
Jun 14, 2012, 03:06 PM
This ^^^

There is no way old 15" MBPs went for $1500ish and now with Retina there is more than a $600 price jump ... retina is cool and all, but they need to quit raping the customers.

I could see the 2 MBP 15" models going for something like $1750 and 1950 but over 2 grand? ... thats tough to explain to customers.

I think it's very fair pricing for what you are getting. I purchased a 15" MBP in 2008 BTO for around $2,100 or $2,200 I think. And in comparison to the other 15" models right now, I'd say it's a superior machine and worthy of that price (with respect to apple's pricing as it always is).

They don't have to explain anything to the customer. If someone wants or needs this particular computer, they are going to get it.

Konrad
Jun 14, 2012, 03:06 PM
The 1990 Mac IIfx had no monitor, a 40MB (not GB) hard drive, ran at 40MH w/4MB (not GB) of RAM, and cost $9,900. You could get additional RAM and HD space for a total of $12,000. That was expensive. This new MacBook Pro Retina is relatively very inexpensive.

Irrelevant. Even in the 90s when a SGI would run tens of thousands with a software license, the return was fairly quick as the industry standard was a per hour per station charge to the client. You are confusing times.

QCassidy352
Jun 14, 2012, 03:07 PM
Yes, it's expensive. But the fact that apple introduced a new high cost product would only be a reason to complain if they had eliminated the lower cost options. They didn't. You want a 15" mbp for less than $2000? You can have it, and with better specs than you could've had a week ago. you want a $1000 laptop? You can have that too, also better than the one that was available last week.

The retina mbp is on the cutting edge and the flagship product from a premium brand. Since when are cutting edge premium products cheap?

Frobozz
Jun 14, 2012, 03:07 PM
I really, truly, completely do not understand moaning about the entry level price on the new MacBook Pro Retina. People really think $2,200 is too much for those specs? It's not cheap. But it's also not expensive. The fact that you can't cheap out is the point. Cheap out on an Air– it's got less oomph so they can deliver it at that price. And that's fine.

For people who go beyond casual use, or use their Mac for gaming, the Pro is required. You get a standard top of the line mobile GPU. Good luck finding that in anything but "gaming" laptops in the PC world. You get a standard 256GB SSD. Again, rare. 8GB Ram– way above "normal." And, um, oh-- the highest resolution laptop screen EVER.

It's a ton of value.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 03:07 PM
How can you even snarkily compare a floppy drive to an ethernet port? Wifi has yet to come even close to matching it for pure speed. If you want to move large files between machines and not take two years short of forever, you're going to want to use a wired ethernet connection.

Oh, I guess he could always buy a dongle. That's totally futuristic and convenient, right? Having to carry around an extra piece of hardware to compensate for the lack of a still current and widely used piece of tech.

Yeah. Floppy drives. Right.



Which is a situation that's very soon to be remedied. The app store in the Windows 8 release preview is currently open to early submissions. The store itself will go live with Win8's release later this year.

So no, it's not here yet. But it's not too far off.

Sorry for being snarky, but I'm old enough to remember the exact same outcry occurring when Apple removed floppies from their machines.

FaustsHausUK
Jun 14, 2012, 03:09 PM
Why on earth is everyone bitching about the price of this thing?

Here is the Apple spec sheet on the 2010 MacBook Pro: http://support.apple.com/kb/SP582 - I got that model with the optional 1680 by 1050 pixel resolution upgrade for around $2,200.

The base spec Retina display MacBook Pro costs that and it is massively improved...

- Vastly better display, not limited to the higher 2880x1800px resolution. Viewing angle, colour reproduction - the works.
- 2.3GHz quad-core Core i7 processor with 6MB shared L3 cache.
- 8GB 1600MHz DDR3L memory.
- 256GB SSD (lower capacity than the 2010's 500GB HDD, but it also has 500MBps write speeds - insane).
- Over 1Lb lighter, 0.2" thinner and with slightly better battery life.

I don't think it's expensive at all. A co-worker and I were following along with the keynote and we were arguing over how much more than $3,000 it was going to cost. Folks like MG Siegler and John Gruber were also ballparking higher entry level prices.

AppleInMyBlood
Jun 14, 2012, 03:10 PM
Yes, it's expensive. But the fact that apple introduced a new high cost product would only be a reason to complain if they had eliminated the lower cost options. They didn't. You want a 15" mbp for less than $2000? You can have it, and with better specs than you could've had a week ago. you want a $1000 laptop? You can have that too, also better than the one that was available last week.

The retina mbp is on the cutting edge and the flagship product from a premium brand. Since when are cutting edge premium products cheap?

This is a superb observation. If Apple had bumped the prices of all their laptops, I would understand the complaints. But this is an additional, premium option. Nobody has to buy one.

luqtotheman
Jun 14, 2012, 03:10 PM
The whole "expensive" argument is strange to me. The Retina MBP is actually pretty aggressively priced for what you get. Try pricing any other high end Ivy Bridge laptop (Mac or PC) with similar GPU, RAM and flash storage and you'll see that the MBP is actually a decent deal.

Of course you can argue that a platter HD laptop would cost less. But that's not a direct comparison.

I totally agree, look at the specs, design, and apple customer service I think it is priced pretty well. Granted apple products are usually a higher price but it is worth the price.

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 03:14 PM
Sorry for being snarky, but I'm old enough to remember the exact same outcry occurring when Apple removed floppies from their machines.

I remember it as well. Floppy drives were already old tech by the time Apple nixed them. Floppies were still in regular rotation, but the tech itself had long since been supplanted by the far quicker, far better optical drives.

But ethernet? Well, if ethernets only purpose was getting you connected to the internet, I could understand wanting to nix the port. But it's not. Specially not for a Pro machine, where someone will want to network their computers together for a render farm, or, once again, transfer tons of very large files. You can do this over wifi, true, but it's not nearly as fast.

QCassidy352
Jun 14, 2012, 03:14 PM
This is a superb observation. If Apple had bumped the prices of all their laptops, I would understand the complaints. But this is an additional, premium option. Nobody has to buy one.

It would be like bitching about the price of the new Mustang GT from Ford when the price of all of their fusions and focuses and ahat have you are still the same AND those models just got significant upgrades. I really don't get it.

kyjaotkb
Jun 14, 2012, 03:14 PM
What's interesting is that an equivalently-specced (CPU, RAM, storage) regular MacBook Pro is more expensive than a Retina MacBook Pro. Once you throw an SSD into the non-Retina version, the price skyrockets.

Well, that is, if you buy the SSD from Apple... buy it from anywhere else (think Samsung 830 and the likes) and your run-off-the-mill 2,5" SSD will cost you way less.
It is planned obsolescence from Apple to offer the SSD at such a sky-high price in the regular MBP. That insane price is just there to justify pricing on the RMBP - not the other way around !!!

blue22
Jun 14, 2012, 03:15 PM
For rich kids.

Actually, the cost evens out between the high-end stock non-Retina MBP that you install your own 512GB SSD into (via 3rd party DYI) and the high-end retina stock MBP, so it's just a mater of whether the current high-end MBP lineup fits your budget, but isn't just for "rich kids" , especially if you have a half decent job .

JohnDoe98
Jun 14, 2012, 03:15 PM
Oh, I guess he could always buy a dongle. That's totally futuristic and convenient, right? Having to carry around an extra piece of hardware to compensate for the lack of a still current and widely used piece of tech.


You have to carry your cable don't you? Leave the dongle on the cable...

Bubba Satori
Jun 14, 2012, 03:16 PM
In before "this is cool, but despite what the reviews say , revision a products always have bugs so I think i'll wait for the one that comes out in two revisions which is the one I buy so it doesn't have any bugs and extra features for a lower price. Besides my late 2011 macbook pro still does everything I need it to so this machine is crap anyway".

Well, there have been an awful lot of updates for it already. :D
Accept or cancel? :)

Gregintosh
Jun 14, 2012, 03:17 PM
That's a pretty arrogant response, IMO. A computer may be important to someone, but giving his or her children an education may be important too, or getting medical treatment, or buying healthy food, etc. etc. To say that "even lower to middle class people can find room in their budgets for" a Retina MacBook Pro is very condescending.

I love Apple products, but they are expensive and far more accessible to the wealthy than less fortunate people. They're worth the money, but in a perfect world they would be cheaper so more people could enjoy them.

If you spend 8 hours a day in front of the computer (1/3 of your life) you can afford to pay the money over a large period of time.

Like I pointed out, you'd need to raise an extra $100 a month to get it. That is a trivial amount for anyone who is able-bodied and of sound mind living in one of the wealthiest countries in the world (I grant an exception to this to anyone who is living in a 3rd world or otherwise poor country where there isn't much opportunity and average incomes are much lower).

Like I said, You can convince 4-5 neighbors on your block to pay you $20 to mow their lawns and you're there. Then when winter comes, shovel some snow. Its a few hours of extra work on the weekends but it makes your dream of having a great device come true. You can decide if its worth it.

It really depends on your priorities. The same people who say they cannot come up with $100 a month for something they will use 8 hours a day for the next few years (or more) will also not blink twice about paying $100 a month for Cable TV they never watch.

The same people who say they cannot come up with any money will also ignore the piles of crap they have in their garages or attics that they can sell (including their existing computers) which can also offset the upfront cost of buying a new computer.

I am not suggesting that someone with deep struggles can easily buy this, but upper-lower to middle class folks can do so. If you are single and make an income of $15 an hour or more (the US average is $23/hour according to the labor department), or if you got two people working in a household, you can buy it without having to win the lottery.

And if you are stuck in a crappy job, than rather than hoping to win the lottery go improve your skills a little bit and get more money or a better job. The economy won't be down forever, but even with this economy theres plenty of opportunities to make a few extra bucks if you're willing to work and you have decent skills.

People just have to take initiative. Its been shown time and time again that if you take initiative, good things happen. If you sit around moping about your situation feeling like the only way you can earn $2,000 is by winning the lottery, you're of a losing mindset.

Tymmz
Jun 14, 2012, 03:19 PM
Up to now, the standard MacBook Pro is more practical.

A leather man is more practical than just a knife. But if a knife is all you need why log around a whole bunch of unneccessary weight?

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 03:20 PM
:mad: Things which I don't like about the new MacBook Pro Retina

1- Most applications are still not Retina supported..

2- I've noticed some of the drivers are missing, like

A- Optical Disk drive
B- The lock protection is missing
C- The IR drive is missing.. I can no longer use my remote
D- The Ethernet port is missing... it's very important
E- The battery level indicator is missing

Up to now, the standard MacBook Pro is more practical.

I don't think they had lock protection ,IR drive ,battery level indicator for some years now.

QCassidy352
Jun 14, 2012, 03:23 PM
That insane price is just there to justify pricing on the RMBP - not the other way around !!!

no, the pricing on SSDs was the same for the 2011s, when there was no need to "justify" anything.

K42
Jun 14, 2012, 03:26 PM
You can run it with as much desktop space as the previous high-res option, or the 17" format as well, IIRC--not as sharp, but still much better than the non-Retina models.

But that is not 1920 x 1200 on a 17" screen. Like I said: I find that the characters are small enough already on a 17". And if they are smaller _and_ fuzzier then retina is not going to be the solution for me.

I have 1920 x 1200 on my 24" iMac too, and actually it feels like more screen real estate than 1920 x 1200 on my 17" MBP.

My iMac by the way is an old matte white one. It is so old, because it is the last matte I could get.

I like Apple products A LOT in general, but it keeps getting harder to find ones that one can actually justify buying for doing real work (programming in my case).

Mr. Gates
Jun 14, 2012, 03:26 PM
Awesome ! I love everything about it.

However I find the new Air to be a letdown.

The new ASUS UX31 with 1080p looks like a winner for me.

Hackintosh is a trivial thing and that sucker has 1080p, 1 gig dedicated NVidia graphics , backlight keyboard, 5-6 hour battery, Bang & Olifson speakers, slick copy of the Air with better RAM and ...... did I mention 1080p :)

But seriously , this new Retina MacBook Pro is fantastic.

Nostromo
Jun 14, 2012, 03:32 PM
I'm very curious about the benchmarks.

This new rMBP looks like a winner.

In regard to the comments about text size on an ultra-high resolution screen like this: one of the reviews mentioned that this is being handled by the rMBP so text will not appear secret spy message size small ;)

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 03:37 PM
Awesome ! I love everything about it.

However I find the new Air to be a letdown.

The new ASUS UX31 with 1080p looks like a winner for me.

Hackintosh is a trivial thing and that sucker has 1080p, 1 gig dedicated NVidia graphics , backlight keyboard, 5-6 hour battery, Bang & Olifson speakers, slick copy of the Air with better RAM and ...... did I mention 1080p :)

But seriously , this new Retina MacBook Pro is fantastic.

The new macbook air is much faster than last year macbook air and better.You are comparing two different things. The macbook air is for you average college and university kid . The macbook pro like the high in iMac is for pros .

If you thinking the macbook air is going be be just as powerful has the macbook pro or iMac you are dreaming.

CalWizrd
Jun 14, 2012, 03:42 PM
... but they are expensive and far more accessible to the wealthy than less fortunate people. They're worth the money, but in a perfect world they would be cheaper so more people could enjoy them.

OK. EVERYTHING that is sold rather than given away is far more accessible to the wealthy than less fortunate people. Paper clips, 2% milk, everything.

In a perfect world, everything would be free, and distributed by altruistic mega-trillionaires.

These seem to be superb machines, and I will soon be retiring my current 15" MBP to get one ... and I'm not even a billionaire.

Navdakilla
Jun 14, 2012, 03:48 PM
So we can all agree that this beast is expensive!

nilk
Jun 14, 2012, 03:49 PM
People these days are not too bright anymore. There is a big difference between expensive and something that has a high price tag.
The new MBP is not expensive, you paying exactly what this kind of machine is worth, although it does require to put a lot of money on the table. These two things are different, otherwise buying a house would be expensive by definition.

No, the retina MBP is expensive (dictionary definition: costing a lot of money). Most houses are expensive, too, otherwise most people wouldn't need loans to be able to buy one. Not everyone can afford the retina MBP, and most people can't afford to buy a house outright (let alone get approved for a loan these days). Most people have to spend years saving up just to be able to make a down payment on a house. I have enough money to buy a retina MBP, but $3500 for the configuration that would satisfy my needs is a lot of money.

You are confusing "expensive" with "overpriced". When people talk about Macs being expensive I usually say "they are expensive but not overpriced, at least if you buy right after release." You get what you pay for...

cgk.emu
Jun 14, 2012, 03:54 PM
HDMI? +1 Apple!

I was happy to see this included on this update as well. HDMI has been standard on quite a few laptops for a number of years. That said, my 2008 15 inch MBP that I still use today just uses a mini display port to HDMI adapter, no issues...still would rather just be able to plug an HDMI cable right in, though.

Anyway, off topic, as I understand it, even though the display is super high DPI, the workspace is effectively the same as the current "standard" res displays. Not knocking that, I'm just wondering what effect, if any, that will have on my web development/graphics work. Maybe someone with a clearer understanding of DPI "issues" can set me straight?

Fraaaa
Jun 14, 2012, 03:57 PM
So we can all agree that this beast is expensive!

What beast isn't? ;)

iReality85
Jun 14, 2012, 04:00 PM
Although people should have read the entire quote before complaining about the "inexpensive" comment, I will say that the way in which MR quoted it was really awkward.

Here's the very first line of the review, right before MacRumor's quote clipping:

"If you could design your dream laptop, how would you describe it?"

Puts it in better context, doesn't it?

thermodynamic
Jun 14, 2012, 04:01 PM
I want one, but I'll wait for 17" version and wait for them to work out all the kinks.

Lets not forget giving the developers some time to optimize their apps for the retina display. Apps on the New iPad are slowly being updated to support this so we'll see how long it takes for desktop developers to get on board.

A 17" with Retina panel will be very expensive - the manufacturing process to get even a 15" display (with no dead pixels!) is a pretty sensitive process, never mind 17"...

I've heard that there is better airflow within the chassis, but I still am holding off for proper reviews covering full load specs, temps, CPU throttling, and other issues...

And, until Crucial and others drop their RAM prices to $100, Apple's current pricing to upgrade the Retina MBPs from 8 to 16GB is actually very reasonable. (But not the SSD...)

By this time next year, I'll have saved enough and while I'm borderline in upgrading so quickly (it's the IPS panel in the MBP that's the crux), by then most of my apps will be Retina-approved (think Adobe) and I'll get the CS6 upgrade then as well...

Sensation
Jun 14, 2012, 04:02 PM
I hope these are a bit more reliable than the other Mac books, all I hear from my friends with Macbooks are things breaking such as optical drives, hard drives and keys dropping off :(

nyc-mac
Jun 14, 2012, 04:05 PM
1. The resolution os adjustable; toggle as needed.
2. People that spend 5 to 6 grand are not going to want to open them up.
3. Phil said the screen has a new coating that dramatically decreases glare.
4. Like the retina on the iPad, people won't "get it" until they see it.
5. !!!!! The towers won't be updated until the LED display (also used for TV) can also be retina and easily handle 4k footage

thermodynamic
Jun 14, 2012, 04:06 PM
OK. EVERYTHING that is sold rather than given away is far more accessible to the wealthy than less fortunate people. Paper clips, 2% milk, everything.

In a perfect world, everything would be free, and distributed by altruistic mega-trillionaires.

These seem to be superb machines, and I will soon be retiring my current 15" MBP to get one ... and I'm not even a billionaire.

In a perfect world, the value of work would not be forgotten (as a Republican once reminded people of some time ago...), people would be astute to the conditions of their society and not be bamboozled in the first place by people who take advantage of their natures and then spit on them behind their backs... still, watching reality shows is more fun, which is why millions of people prefer to do that...

(PS, I disagree with your amusing sig line... I'd rather vote for somebody who understand and appreciates the value of labor and, ironically, that person is the same one you mock in it... since without laborers and the money they earn to spend, who would become mega-trillionaires to begin with?)

Your sig line, just to remind folks of the context:


__________________
If you voted for our current President in 2008 to prove you weren't a racist,
please vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you're not an idiot.

epiksol
Jun 14, 2012, 04:08 PM
There won't be any 17" version. The 17" line is dead, time for you to face that fact.

17" version is discontinued. It will not come any more.

And you guys are basing this off of what... rumors or low sales numbers? If that's the case, then you might as well throw the Mac Pro in the mix as well...

The MBP 17" unibody didn't come out until some time after the 15" unibody was announced.

cecildk9999
Jun 14, 2012, 04:09 PM
~$2200 isn't bad. That's the same as I paid years ago for my last computer, an ultraportable (1.7GHz 512MB 50GB 10" Pentium M Sony, still crawling).
Between non-trivial inflation and big industry price drops, that's a helluva machine for a quite reasonable price.

Agreed. In real terms, this machine is cheaper than my previous two computers; the 2006 Macbook pro I'm typing on cost $2500 with Applecare, and my 2002 Powerbook was $2799 (IIRC). Obviously, the profusion of personal computing devices has changed our ideas of what is 'reasonable,' but with a 3 week wait, it's clear that there are still people able and willing to buy this (myself soon to be included). Prices will come down more with time, and while Apple will still charge a hefty markup, it will be doable for most consumers in the long run. Hooray for economies of scale and supply and demand!

thermodynamic
Jun 14, 2012, 04:09 PM
1. The resolution os adjustable; toggle as needed.
2. People that spend 5 to 6 grand are not going to want to open them up.
3. Phil said the screen has a new coating that dramatically decreases glare.
4. Like the retina on the iPad, people won't "get it" until they see it.
5. !!!!! The towers won't be updated until the LED display (also used for TV) can also be retina and easily handle 4k footage

1. The monitor has only one optimal resolution, stray from that resolution and you end up with blurrier text (a typical issue for LCD monitors, but made lesser of an issue due to the PPI density of the screen)

2. I've spent $25k on a car and I open it up... I don't care for generalizations, one way or the other

3. But does not eliminate it

4. People could see it and still need to have it explained to them, at which point they're probably thinking about their favorite vice or addiction

5. No doubt. Now wait for Apple to demand wireless broadband carriers to subsidize the extra workload for 4k content...

JAT
Jun 14, 2012, 04:10 PM
That's a pretty arrogant response, IMO. A computer may be important to someone, but giving his or her children an education may be important too, or getting medical treatment, or buying healthy food, etc. etc. To say that "even lower to middle class people can find room in their budgets for" a Retina MacBook Pro is very condescending.

I love Apple products, but they are expensive and far more accessible to the wealthy than less fortunate people. They're worth the money, but in a perfect world they would be cheaper so more people could enjoy them.
Everything, including medical treatment and food, is more accessible to the wealthy. That doesn't change the point, which is people should stop whining (on the internet, no less) and go do something.
It's like saying "Wow that 2012 Ferrari is amazing....but its $125,000."
Damn, I'll find a way to get the money if I only have to pay $125k for a 2012 Ferrari. 10 minutes later I'll sell it for retail, pay off my bills, and buy a MBPR.
What? You go on newegg and spend .00000000001% of the cost of Applecare for a replacement part for a PC.
3 ten millionths of a penny? I don't recall seeing those parts at Newegg.

thermodynamic
Jun 14, 2012, 04:15 PM
Agreed. In real terms, this machine is cheaper than my previous two computers; the 2006 Macbook pro I'm typing on cost $2500 with Applecare, and my 2002 Powerbook was $2799 (IIRC). Obviously, the profusion of personal computing devices has changed our ideas of what is 'reasonable,' but with a 3 week wait, it's clear that there are still people able and willing to buy this (myself soon to be included). Prices will come down more with time, and while Apple will still charge a hefty markup, it will be doable for most consumers in the long run. Hooray for economies of scale and supply and demand!

I've seen Windows laptops costing more...

BTW, before you cheer for anything, when the price of RAM goes down but the company does not reduce the price for its product in return, that is an example of how "supply and demand" is a myth. Not just because nothing trickles down to you in the process...

The next time prices skyrocket, I'll keep an eye on the pertinent Mac models and see if their price magically goes up...

----------

Everything, including medical treatment and food, is more accessible to the wealthy. That doesn't change the point, which is people should stop whining (on the internet, no less) and go do something.

Including you? :) What are you doing here, being paid to guard and respond to people you believe are whining (on the internet, no less)?

What happens when the value of work gets stomped down? (You might know that the middle class' ability to earn wealth has been going down since 1979 or so, and at a faster clip over the last few years. At some point, even you won't be able to work enough hours in a day... will you be whining then?)

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2012/0612/How-skewed-is-America-s-income-inequality-Take-our-quiz/Growing-since

http://www.realitybase.org/journal/2009/3/10/the-american-dream-died-in-february-1973.html

http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/01/vicious-cycle-stagnant-wages

So, yes, if you haven't been affected yet, which is highly unlikely... you might be at some point.

Those articles aren't whines. They are posting facts.


3 millionths of a penny? I don't recall seeing those parts at Newegg.

RAM, CPU, and other components can be found there. It's not hard to find them. Granted, the price point you'd mentioned is a tad far-fetched...

JohnDoe98
Jun 14, 2012, 04:16 PM
And you guys are basing this off of what... rumors or low sales numbers? If that's the case, then you might as well throw the Mac Pro in the mix as well...

The MBP 17" unibody didn't come out until some time after the 15" unibody was announced.

I'm basing it on the fact that Apple no longer sells them and didn't update them as they did all the other MBPs.

marksman
Jun 14, 2012, 04:17 PM
frankly speaking i love all the software updates, but ever since 4s i m not liking the way apple is rolling out hardware, the loss of steve is imminent here.

firstly they call this era as "post pc", on the second side they price their stuff way beyond average consumer's reach, its a computer, apple "now" shud win market share, steve would have focused n done that if alive.

They r move more n more away from average consumer, this is rich boy's toy clearly the ones who dont even need that extra power, there is no proper "fragmentation" too, this is not what most of apple fans expected



Since when has the average consumer been able to afford the top of the line apple machine. My dad spend over 5k on a Mac 20 some years ago. I spent over 3300 on my 17" Mbp 4 years ago.

People act like this is not a top of the line device or apple used to make their top of the line device affordable to everyone. That had not been the case for close to thirty years.

People need to recognize what this device is and that apple has plenty of devices more affordable if you want one. If you want top of the line fully specced technology you will pay for it.

K42
Jun 14, 2012, 04:23 PM
And you guys are basing this off of what... rumors or low sales numbers? If that's the case, then you might as well throw the Mac Pro in the mix as well...

The MBP 17" unibody didn't come out until some time after the 15" unibody was announced.

Based on not being able to order one right now I guess. Before the unibody came out, one could still order an alu 17", I think.

We will see who is right, but right now it looks a bit like the 17" is not coming back.

nickarmadillo
Jun 14, 2012, 04:26 PM
non-upgradeable memory and SSD = deal breaker

Digital Skunk
Jun 14, 2012, 04:29 PM
This:

"the least repairable laptop we’ve taken apart"
(http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/13/teardown-of-retina-macbook-pro-finds-low-repairability-with-custom-components/)

is a deal breaker for me...stunning display but no thanks :(

yeah me too:mad:

I agree wholeheartedly, but sadly you should know that Apple is going to take the rest of the lineup down that road. When the 17" comes back, Apple would have basically sealed the entire thing shut, and may even leave off the screws on the bottom case.

FlameofAnor
Jun 14, 2012, 04:35 PM
Based on not being able to order one right now I guess. Before the unibody came out, one could still order an alu 17", I think.

We will see who is right, but right now it looks a bit like the 17" is not coming back.

It's hardly a big reach to declare the 17" models as retired. It was never a big seller, so Apple doesn't have much reason to keep it around.

With the hi-res screens coming into play, you simply don't need as much screen real estate as you used to. With the higher pixel density, 15" is plenty big for a laptop, and more portable.

Personally, I'm a desktop guy, and would love to see a redesigned retina version of the iMac. At that pixel density, even the 20" model would look amazing. I have the 24" version now, but the extra resolution would make the smaller screen size perfectly usable.

I suspect it'll be a bit of a wait before we see retina displays in these larger sizes though. Waiting is such sweet sorrow. ;)

TSE
Jun 14, 2012, 04:35 PM
The new MacBook Pros are definitely one of the best laptops on the market right now, but still have severe limitations. I wouldn't get a laptop with less than 16 GBs of RAM unless it was upgradeable, so that's an additional $200, and 256 GBs of SSD space still isn't enough for me without having to have an additional 64 GB SD Card to hold my music, videos, files, etc.

JohnDoe98
Jun 14, 2012, 04:35 PM
I agree wholeheartedly, but sadly you should know that Apple is going to take the rest of the lineup down that road. When the 17" comes back, Apple would have basically sealed the entire thing shut, and may even leave off the screws on the bottom case.

How would Apple technicians open it up to fix it then? That hardly makes sense. Even the new RMBP is easily serviceable by Apple technicians. The only tricky part is the battery, but if the diagnostics reveals it is in need of replacement, then they don't have to worry about puncturing it when removing it since the battery is deemed defective anyway. iFixit couldn't remove the battery since they didn't want to damage the battery, obviously that doesn't apply to the techs at Apple. Changing the logic board or SSD is fairly trivial though, just need special screw drivers...

gnasher729
Jun 14, 2012, 04:40 PM
The review wasn't saying that the Macbook Pro is inexpensive, it was saying that being inexpensive is a desirable trait, one that this machine misses by a wide margin. Read more carefully?

I just went to the Apple Store site and tried to do a proper comparison.

Huge surprise: The Retina MacBook Pro is actually a lot cheaper than the plain 15" MacBook Pro!!!

The "from $xxxx" price is higher, but that is because the 15" starts with a cheap hard drive, while the MBPR is only sold with more expensive SSDs. Once you take both with the same amount of RAM, and with the same SSD, the retina display MBP is about $300 cheaper! (Although you lose the optical drive, and some ports).


non-upgradeable memory and SSD = deal breaker

SSD is upgradeable (not today, but it will be). Then compare the price of the MBPR and an equivalent MBP, and the MBPR with 16 GB RAM is still cheaper.

Konrad9
Jun 14, 2012, 04:45 PM
You should keep reading. ;)

Yes, how dare he believe that a $2K+ laptop is expensive! HANG HIM FOR SAYING SOMETHING REMOTELY BAD ABOUT APPLE!

----------

The review wasn't saying that the Macbook Pro is inexpensive, it was saying that being inexpensive is a desirable trait, one that this machine misses by a wide margin. Read more carefully?

Derrrrr, that's what the *excerpt* says.

Maybe they should quote more carefully?

Galatian
Jun 14, 2012, 04:47 PM
How would Apple technicians open it up to fix it then? That hardly makes sense. Even the new RMBP is easily serviceable by Apple technicians. The only tricky part is the battery, but if the diagnostics reveals it is in need of replacement, then they don't have to worry about puncturing it when removing it since the battery is deemed defective anyway. iFixit couldn't remove the battery since they didn't want to damage the battery, obviously that doesn't apply to the techs at Apple. Changing the logic board or SSD is fairly trivial though, just need special screw drivers...

You ever pinched a battery? There are some volatile chemicals in there you know...:rolleyes:

deze
Jun 14, 2012, 04:50 PM
My late 2011 17" mbpro with a custom 256 SD and 8 GB ram is quite fast enough to be upgrading just yet with a geek bench of 1170.

Mr. Gates
Jun 14, 2012, 04:51 PM
The new macbook air is much faster than last year macbook air and better.You are comparing two different things. The macbook air is for you average college and university kid . The macbook pro like the high in iMac is for pros .

If you thinking the macbook air is going be be just as powerful has the macbook pro or iMac you are dreaming.

You need to read what I said again. Your comment makes no sense and has nothing to do with anything I was talking about.

I was in no way comparing two different Mac models.

I expressed a like for the new Pro and a side note about the Air.

JohnDoe98
Jun 14, 2012, 04:53 PM
You ever pinched a battery? There are some volatile chemicals in there you know...:rolleyes:

Nothing that can't be protected against by having proper gloves, goggles, and masks. I don't know what safety measures Apple employs, but I'd imagine their techs are well covered in that area.

For us it is a little trickier though. We'd need to buy all that, buy the special glue, and a new battery, if we could somehow diagnose the battery problem ourselves...

jacg
Jun 14, 2012, 04:56 PM
What's interesting is that an equivalently-specced (CPU, RAM, storage) regular MacBook Pro is more expensive than a Retina MacBook Pro. Once you throw an SSD into the non-Retina version, the price skyrockets.

Fortunately it is easy to install a cheaper SSD yourself into the old MacBook Pro. Will this ever be an option with the retina MacBook Pro? Also, can you really afford to risk buying a retina MacBook Pro without AppleCare or some equivalent insurance?

K42
Jun 14, 2012, 04:58 PM
It's hardly a big reach to declare the 17" models as retired. It was never a big seller, so Apple doesn't have much reason to keep it around.

With the hi-res screens coming into play, you simply don't need as much screen real estate as you used to. With the higher pixel density, 15" is plenty big for a laptop, and more portable.

Personally, I'm a desktop guy, and would love to see a redesigned retina version of the iMac. At that pixel density, even the 20" model would look amazing. I have the 24" version now, but the extra resolution would make the smaller screen size perfectly usable.

I suspect it'll be a bit of a wait before we see retina displays in these larger sizes though. Waiting is such sweet sorrow. ;)

Well, I am one of those people that actually likes to have a lot of screen real estate. And Apple's version of a 17" laptop was the most portable around.

It makes me feel a bit like a dinosaur. And perhaps rightly so.

But hey, I don't have to wait. I am just going to completely use up my 17" and feel very unique and cool about that.

And those Lenovo's have this nice industrial look. Aluminium is sooooo pre-crisis.

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 05:00 PM
Personally, I'm a desktop guy, and would love to see a redesigned retina version of the iMac. At that pixel density, even the 20" model would look amazing. I have the 24" version now, but the extra resolution would make the smaller screen size perfectly usable.

I suspect it'll be a bit of a wait before we see retina displays in these larger sizes though. Waiting is such sweet sorrow. ;)

At first I was going to say you'll be waiting a good long time before they come out with a 27" monitor sporting the pixel density of the new MBP. Then I realized something...

I can barely see the pixels on my 24" 1920x1080 monitor sitting about 3-3 1/2' in front of me. I have to lean in so my face is hovering about a foot away from the screen before I can really start making out individual pixels.

A retina iMac probably wouldn't be much higher res than the 2560x1440 screen they've got out now.

faroZ06
Jun 14, 2012, 05:07 PM
No ethernet?! Apple needs to release an ethernet to Thunderbolt adapter right now and make it come with the computer :mad:

Not everyone has good wifi across their entire house, and wifi is slower than ethernet anyway!

NoIdeasOriginal
Jun 14, 2012, 05:13 PM
If only I could afford one.

skywalkerr69
Jun 14, 2012, 05:17 PM
And how much do you need to pay to know which part needs to be replaced? Degrees in computer electronics and repair don't come cheep. AppleCare is far less expensive.

Unless you have been laying under a rock for the past 10 years. Google + a brain can figure it out. I would admit AppleCare is great for devices that aren't upgradeable or easily fixed like this new RMBP.

----------

No ethernet?! Apple needs to release an ethernet to Thunderbolt adapter right now and make it come with the computer :mad:

Not everyone has good wifi across their entire house, and wifi is slower than ethernet anyway!

It's sad that people would have to spend $3,000 and NEED an adapter. That is like buying a brand new car and having to buy tires right after you drive off the lot.

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 05:23 PM
If only I could afford one.

You just need to have some entrepreneurial spirit. You'll have the money in no time flat.

So...uh...anyone here know how to...uh...make uncut Columbian cocaine? I've already bought some Hershey's cocoa (I hear it's the best), so I'm pretty sure I've got half of what I need. I just need to know what to do from here.

This is just for educational purposes, by the way. I'm writing a paper.

PM me if you know how.

kalex
Jun 14, 2012, 05:27 PM
- There's blazingly fast wi-fi anywhere; personally I haven't plugged my macbook into an ethernet port for ages.
- Do you really think you'll need more RAM in the coming five years?


wifi is anything but blazing and fast. For general use wifi is enough but I always plugin when transferring large files
on my wired network it takes about 40 seconds to transfer 4.2GB file from my home server to my laptop via ethernet. it takes about 5-10 minutes to do the same over my apple airport express.

Is it big difference - yes. is wifi blazing fast - hell no. Could I wait around and just let it copy - sure. But i have a choice with macbook pro i have to carry and buy yet another dongle.

Same goes for RAM - I would definitely need more ram in 5 years. Look at the way ram prices have come down and capacity went up in prior 5 years.
My laptop now has 8 which i'm about to upgrade to 16. Point is I have a choice and can choose to do it at my leisure. With retina i have to decide ahead of time and be stuck with my decision

Isotope C
Jun 14, 2012, 05:35 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

It is quite amazing to see the number of people that stopped reading at "inexpensive". Those same people are potential customers for a highly capable computer which makes me seriously wonder where the world is going considering that they can't even read...

On another note: congratulations to the "MacRumors" people for their wonderful live coverage of the WWDC on Monday. It must have been a lot of work...

FlameofAnor
Jun 14, 2012, 05:55 PM
At first I was going to say you'll be waiting a good long time before they come out with a 27" monitor sporting the pixel density of the new MBP. Then I realized something...

I can barely see the pixels on my 24" 1920x1080 monitor sitting about 3-3 1/2' in front of me. I have to lean in so my face is hovering about a foot away from the screen before I can really start making out individual pixels.

A retina iMac probably wouldn't be much higher res than the 2560x1440 screen they've got out now.

Really?...... I have no trouble seeing the pixels on my 24" iMac, even at it's highest resolution. But then, I've been spoiled by using my new iPad. Everything else looks "grainy" in comparison.

It's one of those things that you don't really appreciate until you see the difference. As one reviewer of the new retina MacBook Pro wrote:

“After 20 minutes of using Apple's new MacBook Pro with Retina Display, I switched back to my own six-month-old MacBook Pro to send an e-mail. But when I looked at its screen, I thought my contact lenses had actually fallen out. For a second I was worried; everything on the screen looked less crisp and less bright. It's not an old machine, but it was really as if an optometrist had switched my prescription, or I'd been forced to use my old glasses. Everything just seemed blurry by comparison.”

pacalis
Jun 14, 2012, 06:00 PM
The new Pro looks like a really great laptop. I can see why they're selling so well.

For me fashionably thin, and "latest" doesn't do much. I would still buy a MBP 15 because I use FW800 and Ethernet at least a couple of times each week for file transferring and fast communication between my various Mac.

I don't use the optical drive all that much any more simply because my MP is faster at decrypting my DVDs. And it has BR.

I prefer powerful laptops so a performance model even slightly thicker than the current MBPs, with room for two HDDs as well as optical would be me a wishlist choice.

Why wouldn't you just hook up your FW and ethernet and monitor and usb etc.. to a thunderbolt hub?

QCassidy352
Jun 14, 2012, 06:01 PM
No ethernet?! Apple needs to release an ethernet to Thunderbolt adapter right now and make it come with the computer :mad:

Not everyone has good wifi across their entire house, and wifi is slower than ethernet anyway!

Fortunately for you, Apple makes a 15" MacBook Pro that has an ethernet port. :-)

willcapellaro
Jun 14, 2012, 06:03 PM
My Review:
Just went and saw one at an Apple store. Wanted to see the retina and gauge the heft in person. So here are my 2¢ for those who haven't laid hands on.

- Heft seems much improved. I wasn't prepared for this. I know they haven't shaved off a lot of weight but it SEEMS like they have. This is much more manageable to carry and port around.
- The thinness also makes this much more usable as a laptop (ie, not plugged in to externals), it gives the sharp edges less purchase to cut into your hands on a surface. This is because you don't have to angle your hands up from your wrists so sharply.
- Some nice subtle touches to what I'll call the opening divot ("philtrum"?). Overall less sharpness but still two deadly devil prongs where it meets the rest of the razor's edge.

- Retina is wondrous for finder and any apps that are ready for prime time. At the store, that's all I could find. They all looked great. Seems like a gamechanger.
- However, web sites are a visual disconnect (I used Safari). Type looks great, but images are noticeably pixel-doubled. This doesn't look great, and I don't want to notice things like this. Because it is the web, and not apps, I don't anticipate a widespread campaign to deliver high res graphics for a small subset of laptop users. I would say it's like having some elements being 480p on a 1080p HDTV set. So yeah, bad.
- I also worry about shovelware, pokey developers, and PC-oriented applications that don't care to do extra work to be Retinized. The app store will help peer pressure most "app" developers, but those who develop non-app store applications may buck or keep their heads in the sand.

You all can make up your minds about the port updates. I could get around a few inconveniences, and benefit from some of the additions, but overall I'm happy with my MBP 2010 SSD+HDD for another cycle.

pacalis
Jun 14, 2012, 06:04 PM
I am about to buy a Macbook Pro from the states due to the fact they are cheaper of course :cool: And I am in high doubt which configuration I should go for. I've been waiting to read reviews how the Non Retina compares to the Retina, and people say it's worth the money. I will be using the MBP for photoshop most of the time and Xcode programming while I am not a spec freak I do wanna get the best for the money. So far I have never had a problem of picking up a mac but, now with the Retina Macbook do I really want it ?


The retina is a no brainer - if nothing else you'll get a huge performance bump out of the SSD, much more than a faster chip. Also it will probably be cooler.

Also, with such a fast SSD, I'm not sure there's that much performance increase from going from 8 to 16Gb RAM except for maybe the most extreme users.

GodWhomIsMike
Jun 14, 2012, 06:15 PM
What don't you know about an entry-level MB Air or Mac Mini? What's "affordable" to you?

How the mid-2012 compares to the 2011 and the 2011-2012 13" Pro?

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 06:16 PM
Really?...... I have no trouble seeing the pixels on my 24" iMac, even at it's highest resolution. But then, I've been spoiled by using my new iPad. Everything else looks "grainy" in comparison.

I have the new iPad myself, and though I find my PC monitor isn't quite as crystalline clear in comparison, it isn't what I'd consider much worse. I don't think you'd have to quadruple the resolution to make it roughly equal, in other words. A modest bump up would do for the larger displays.

Also, it depends on how far away you're sitting from your iMac. Like I said before, I'm sitting at least 3 1/2' (maybe even as far as 4) away from my monitor. From this distance, I can't discern the individual pixels on any of the text or icons on my screen. It's an entirely different story if lean in about a foot, foot and a half towards the screen. I guess you could say I sit at the minimum distance necessary for my display to be considered retina. You might sit a little closer, and thus find the individual pixels more apparent.

lecturenotes
Jun 14, 2012, 06:17 PM
Here's the first line included from David Pogue. Makes everything a bit more reasonable.


If you could design your dream laptop, how would you describe it?

Superfast. Superthin. Superlight. Superlong battery life. Immense storage. Enough memory to keep lots of programs open at once. Stunning screen, comfortable keyboard, terrific sound. Fast start-up, rugged body, gorgeous looks.

And, of course, inexpensive.

The new Apple laptop that went on sale Monday hits an impressive number of those high notes in one radical swoop. As you might guess, the one it misses by the biggest margin is “inexpensive.

hipnetic
Jun 14, 2012, 06:21 PM
I honestly don't get the complaints about the lack of Ethernet (or optical drive). I use an optical drive to install software from companies that didn't give me a download option, and that rarely needs to be done. I might occasionally rip something (music or movies), but it's hardly a daily use case for me, so an external drive, left at home most of the time, is perfectly fine.

For ethernet, if you work for a company that doesn't offer WiFi, or you need faster speed than WiFi, you get the thunderbolt to gigabit ethernet (or a USB to ethernet) dongle and have the choice of leaving it at the desk (or possibly buying a couple and leaving one at each location - permanently connected to the ethernet cable) or you stick it in your laptop bag. The bottom line is that Apple had the choice of making the laptop thinner and doing away with ethernet, or keeping the ethernet but ending up with a thicker laptop. I think they made the right choice.

Then there's people complaining about it being expensive. It's not cheap, but as others have pointed out, if you add options to the non-Retina 15" model, the Retina model ends up being cheaper. And why do you think you're *entitled* to the Retina model for cheaper? Yeesh. But here's the good news, if you really want Retina but can't justify the price, there's a good chance you may be able to get it (with fewer options) for considerably cheaper next year. It's clear to me that Apple is offering this up as a premium option to see how many they can sell to early adopters and professionals. Once the demand dies down, they'll probably drop the non-Retina models with integrated optical drives and replace the whole lineup with thinner models, some of which will have Retina as an option.

Finally, I'll add that I get a kick out of how many people who dismiss the Air models as become too weak. I'm a developer (not of Apple apps currently) who has last year's 13" Air w/4GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD. It feels plenty fast and I've determined that I could easily get by with a 128GB SSD. If I was spending my own money today, I would highly recommend the base 13" model (at $1099) but I'd spend the extra $100 to upgrade to 8GB of RAM. If I could upgrade it to a 15" Retina screen for an extra $150-300, I'd do that, too, and I suspect we'll see an offering like that next year.

koruki
Jun 14, 2012, 06:25 PM
Look at the comments sitting on those sites. I've seen less anger and tears shed during world wars *sigh*

kazmac
Jun 14, 2012, 06:30 PM
Really?...... I have no trouble seeing the pixels on my 24" iMac, even at it's highest resolution. But then, I've been spoiled by using my new iPad. Everything else looks "grainy" in comparison.

It's one of those things that you don't really appreciate until you see the difference. As one reviewer of the new retina MacBook Pro wrote:

“After 20 minutes of using Apple's new MacBook Pro with Retina Display, I switched back to my own six-month-old MacBook Pro to send an e-mail. But when I looked at its screen, I thought my contact lenses had actually fallen out. For a second I was worried; everything on the screen looked less crisp and less bright. It's not an old machine, but it was really as if an optometrist had switched my prescription, or I'd been forced to use my old glasses. Everything just seemed blurry by comparison.”


LOL at that quote...I finally noticed a difference between the new iPad and my 2010 iMac today. Wow...it is a big difference and I look forward to seeing how the technology will improve. Also waiting on software and apps to adapt to the Retina resolution.

I haven't been able to justify a laptop over $1500. Desktops no problem. However I understand the price point and why it is too much for some folks and cheaper for others. I've priced many an MBA/MBP in the past two years and always backed off and/or returned the laptop. Part of that was buyers' remorse, part was reality. I just didn't need the machine at that time.

doobybiggs
Jun 14, 2012, 06:34 PM
I think it's very fair pricing for what you are getting. I purchased a 15" MBP in 2008 BTO for around $2,100 or $2,200 I think. And in comparison to the other 15" models right now, I'd say it's a superior machine and worthy of that price (with respect to apple's pricing as it always is).

They don't have to explain anything to the customer. If someone wants or needs this particular computer, they are going to get it.

that seems like a lot for a 15" weren't the 17" around that price?

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 06:38 PM
Why is SSD so costly ? It would really help if the cost of SSD goes down.

SSD 128 GB for $100
SSD 256 GB for $400
SSD 512 GB for $900

Apple cinema display is $1,000 !!! So I'm sure the retina display is well over $1,000 !!!

Greenman85
Jun 14, 2012, 06:43 PM
Stopped reading when the first review said "inexpensive".

LOL fail

iSayuSay
Jun 14, 2012, 06:49 PM
"Inexpensive ..." Quote of the day by David Pogue ..

But yeah .. it may be right for what you get, you mostly get the highest laptop technology available today.

Just like the first gen MBA, the price was absurd, performance was utterly insulting, but it was the first at its time. It was magical :apple: ;) ... Expect the price to go down over time, but that's what it takes to get cheaper .. Time ...

If your time is money, a hugeee money .. than yeah RMBP is "inexpensive" .




Why is SSD so costly ? It would really help if the cost of SSD goes down.

SSD 128 GB for $100
SSD 256 GB for $400
SSD 512 GB for $900

Apple cinema display is $1,000 !!! So I'm sure the retina display is well over $1,000 !!!

Well .. by extrapolating your idea, Retina Display on iPad should cost $500 - $600 then? Remember that it crammed much more pixel on 9.7"display than even Retina on 15" MBP, so it should even be more expensive inch by inch. While iPad cost what? $499 at the lowest?

jcpb
Jun 14, 2012, 06:55 PM
Why is SSD so costly ? It would really help if the cost of SSD goes down.

SSD 128 GB for $100
SSD 256 GB for $400
SSD 512 GB for $900

Apple cinema display is $1,000 !!! So I'm sure the retina display is well over $1,000 !!!
Apple's SSD pricing never makes sense. Then again, you'd get bent over by most other vendors with their BTO SSD configs.

fitshaced
Jun 14, 2012, 06:58 PM
I think the retina display is useful for reading. Not required so much on my laptop. It would also be useful for photo/video editing but laptop screens are generally too small for that. Therefore, even though the retina display will look awesome, it's an expensive luxury on a laptop. Put it on a cinema display with matte finish and then there's something I'll be thinking about buying. The iPad and iPhone both need retina for reading and I have both.

kylepro88
Jun 14, 2012, 07:17 PM
Apple's SSD pricing never makes sense. Then again, you'd get bent over by most other vendors with their BTO SSD configs.

Well it's also not an SSD...so...

Seriously folks, this thing was designed from the ground up to include what it includes and they had zero interest in putting in a swappable drive obviously, since they wanted flash storage not an SSD drive. Same goes for RAM...and this time around IMO the RAM upgrade isn't that bad since you get 8GB standard to start already and not 4GB.

There are adapters for ports you want, or how about that upcoming Belkin dock that'll give you a ton more USB 3.0 ports, FW800, eSata, etc.?

It's a great system from the looks of it.

darkplanets
Jun 14, 2012, 07:25 PM
Even if you modestly upgrade the rival MBP, the rMBP ends up being better per cost, mostly due to SSD upgrades. Funny how that works, huh? It's almost as if they want you to get the rMBP...

FlameofAnor
Jun 14, 2012, 07:26 PM
I have the new iPad myself, and though I find my PC monitor isn't quite as crystalline clear in comparison, it isn't what I'd consider much worse. I don't think you'd have to quadruple the resolution to make it roughly equal, in other words. A modest bump up would do for the larger displays.

Also, it depends on how far away you're sitting from your iMac. Like I said before, I'm sitting at least 3 1/2' (maybe even as far as 4) away from my monitor. From this distance, I can't discern the individual pixels on any of the text or icons on my screen. It's an entirely different story if lean in about a foot, foot and a half towards the screen. I guess you could say I sit at the minimum distance necessary for my display to be considered retina. You might sit a little closer, and thus find the individual pixels more apparent.

Why sit so far away? I'm normally sitting just over 2 feet away from my 24" iMac. For graphic work, I need to see fine detail. Having a retina screen would be a much welcomed upgrade, even though it wouldn't be as high a pixel density as a laptop.

kylepro88
Jun 14, 2012, 07:28 PM
When it comes to the soldered RAM too...if you think about it, getting 16GB third party was great, but it wasn't cost effective. Apple already factored the built-in RAM at a premium price, which you have no choice but to pay for, then pay MacSales.com $162 to get 16GB you can install yourself...making the RAM you already paid a premium for absolutely useless. So really you weren't saving all that much...a little...but not a ton.

fitshaced
Jun 14, 2012, 07:31 PM
Well it's also not an SSD...so...

Seriously folks, this thing was designed from the ground up to include what it includes and they had zero interest in putting in a swappable drive obviously, since they wanted flash storage not an SSD drive. Same goes for RAM...and this time around IMO the RAM upgrade isn't that bad since you get 8GB standard to start already and not 4GB.

There are adapters for ports you want, or how about that upcoming Belkin dock that'll give you a ton more USB 3.0 ports, FW800, eSata, etc.?

It's a great system from the looks of it.

I think having to buy adapters is the sickening fact of being an apple user. Apple should try and gracefully phase out legacy hardware by including adapters with models losing these things for the first time.

Also, just another observation, should you get a retina mbp, you'll want to plug it into an external at sometime, maybe all the time. I think that's when te luxury of having the retina will really test your patience and might prove to be a bigger headache than not. Until you actually get a retina external screen.

Shaun, UK
Jun 14, 2012, 07:32 PM
According to Apple they ditched the 17" MBP because very few people were buying it. The same argument they used when they killed X Serve and the same argument they will use when they kill off the Mac Pro. Yes I know what Tim Cook said but they'll make up some excuse next year when all the fuss has died down.

Apples' best selling laptop is the 13" MBP. Why? Coz it's the cheapest model they offer.

Apple is now a consumer electronics company who are not really interested in the pro marketplace.

Add these up together and I just don't see how the 15" MBPR makes any sense whatsoever at that price. Ok they will sell loads at the start but what happens in 6 or 12 months when the initial excitement has worn off? Its sales will probably drop to the same meagre levels as the old 17" MBP. Then what?

jronan2
Jun 14, 2012, 07:40 PM
As much as I love the new Retina MBP's and how long I have been patiently waiting for the updates and stashing over 2 grand for a new MBP when they finally would arrive, I"m going to order a 13" MBA. I saw the new retina's in the store last night and was blown away, but the quiet and over shadowed updates to the air sold me. I couldn't justify myself spending at least another $500+ for the retina version. I already have an iphone 4s ipad 3 and an aging imac I use for browsing the web and my music server, I'm not photographer or video editor, so I talked myself out of the retina last night at the store. I think the MBA is one hell of a computer after the retina MBP. Even though money isn't the problem, i couldn't see myself spending that kind of money on something that I wouldn't get the most out of. I wish everyone luck with the new retina's.

Medic311
Jun 14, 2012, 07:41 PM
Did people notice the screen having a yellow tint in the CNET video?

eron
Jun 14, 2012, 07:48 PM
Image (http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8045/hardone.png)


In case anyone gets misled, I think the 15" MBP only has 2xUSB ports?
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro/select

mofunk
Jun 14, 2012, 07:59 PM
I thought this MBP was inexpensive. My Powerbook cost more than the MBPRetina. :mad:


I played with one today.. the trackpad feels lighter and a lot smoother.

kylepro88
Jun 14, 2012, 08:03 PM
I think having to buy adapters is the sickening fact of being an apple user. Apple should try and gracefully phase out legacy hardware by including adapters with models losing these things for the first time.

Also, just another observation, should you get a retina mbp, you'll want to plug it into an external at sometime, maybe all the time. I think that's when te luxury of having the retina will really test your patience and might prove to be a bigger headache than not. Until you actually get a retina external screen.

Giving the adapters for ports with the machine you specifically designed without those ports sounds a bit goofy doesn't it? It's also a poor idea from a business standpoint and much easier to let those who need it buy it instead of wasting a ton of adapters not everyone needs.

If I got a newer one, it would be as a desktop replacement so most of the time the Retina display wouldn't be used. That's why my 2011 MBP will stick around for a while because at the moment I don't have much need. The greatest benefits to me in the new one are the bump in specs, flash storage, and a better dedicated GPU. BUT, right now that's not enough for me to buy new, not with this 2011 running so well still.

faroZ06
Jun 14, 2012, 08:16 PM
Fortunately for you, Apple makes a 15" MacBook Pro that has an ethernet port. :-)

What if I want to have retina?

For a pro-level computer, it should have RAM that is not soldered on and an ethernet port.[COLOR="#808080"]

Digital Skunk
Jun 14, 2012, 08:18 PM
How would Apple technicians open it up to fix it then? That hardly makes sense. Even the new RMBP is easily serviceable by Apple technicians. The only tricky part is the battery, but if the diagnostics reveals it is in need of replacement, then they don't have to worry about puncturing it when removing it since the battery is deemed defective anyway. iFixit couldn't remove the battery since they didn't want to damage the battery, obviously that doesn't apply to the techs at Apple. Changing the logic board or SSD is fairly trivial though, just need special screw drivers...

Opening it up wouldn't be the issue with a design that has little no screws. It would deter many from trying to open it up for fear of damaging the components. Not being able to conceive it doesn't mean that it can't be or hasn't already been done.

As far as the battery, I don't see even the Apple techs trying to replace that in store. They may just issue you a new one, transfer your info and send the faulty book back to the warehouse for repair and testing. Then just sell it as a refurbished unit.

What if I want to have retina?

For a pro-level computer, it should have RAM that is not soldered on and an ethernet port.

How come Apple displays are the only ones that go above 1080p? I was shopping for a monitor, and everything was 1080p, even the 70" monitor (yes, monitor, not TV).

I don't think the ethernet port is THAT necessary for folks that use their machine for business. If I had to choose between ethernet and an extra USB 3.0 port I'd take the USB port. The RAM is only an issue for those that know they are going to upgrade past 16GB in the future . . . like myself . . . so I am with you there, but for many that just won't be an issue.

There's still a little spark of a dream deep inside of me that flys away to a place where Apple has the ultra thin laptop for the mobile user and the ultra efficient/loaded/maxed out/high end laptop for the mobile user that needs the raw power of a nuclear reactor.

There are plenty of panels out there that have higher than 1080p. Everyone has the high res panel that's used in the 27" TBolt display, and there are even many 4k panels out there in the realm of broadcast.

fitshaced
Jun 14, 2012, 08:19 PM
Giving the adapters for ports with the machine you specifically designed without those ports sounds a bit goofy doesn't it? It's also a poor idea from a business standpoint and much easier to let those who need it buy it instead of wasting a ton of adapters not everyone needs.

If I got a newer one, it would be as a desktop replacement so most of the time the Retina display wouldn't be used. That's why my 2011 MBP will stick around for a while because at the moment I don't have much need. The greatest benefits to me in the new one are the bump in specs, flash storage, and a better dedicated GPU. BUT, right now that's not enough for me to buy new, not with this 2011 running so well still.

Apple either make an assumption that majority of people don't use these things or they play god and force people not to use these things. They disregard their loyal customers and force them to use their machines in a particular way. It's not 'goofy' to include adapters that people will have to buy anyway (very much the apple way to expect people to do that). It would only be for a phase out period anyway. It's not an unusual thing either.

kockgunner
Jun 14, 2012, 08:22 PM
Odd that they complain about it being "expensive". The price is less than that of the early big desktop (they did have a handle though) Macs. Accounting for inflation the price of a Mac has been in free fall. They've never been cheaper.

Exactly. When I got my Macbook Pro in 2008, $2000 bought you the base model 15".

faroZ06
Jun 14, 2012, 08:25 PM
Apple either make an assumption that majority of people don't use these things or they play god and force people not to use these things. They disregard their loyal customers and force them to use their machines in a particular way. It's not 'goofy' to include adapters that people will have to buy anyway (very much the apple way to expect people to do that). It would only be for a phase out period anyway. It's not an unusual thing either.

The lack of ethernet is ridiculous on a professional-level computer, and even a lot of home users have spotty or no wifi. Wifi in my room is horrible, and it's slower than ethernet even in good areas.

----------

Exactly. When I got my Macbook Pro in 2008, $2000 bought you the base model 15".

The MBPR expensive compared to other laptops (Apple and others). This is obviously for a good reason, and it's probably worth it for some people.

My only complaints are the soldered RAM and lack of ethernet port.

JohnDoe98
Jun 14, 2012, 08:25 PM
Apple either make an assumption that majority of people don't use these things or they play god and force people not to use these things. They disregard their loyal customers and force them to use their machines in a particular way. It's not 'goofy' to include adapters that people will have to buy anyway (very much the apple way to expect people to do that). It would only be for a phase out period anyway. It's not an unusual thing either.

Why should the people who have no need for such adapters subsidize the cost just so it can be included in your box?

fitshaced
Jun 14, 2012, 08:35 PM
Why should the people who have no need for such adapters subsidize the cost just so it can be included in your box?
I think that's a poor statement. Why did apple include display adapters in previous models, even for those people that don't use external monitors? Or why set 8gig standard on base models when some people may only use 4.

You, and Apple are making the assumption that the majority don't use these things. Maybe over time, but like I said, phase them out gracefully without leaving a bitter taste with loyal customers.

petsounds
Jun 14, 2012, 09:01 PM
Why should the people who have no need for such adapters subsidize the cost just so it can be included in your box?

This is a machine for professionals, often people who need to interface with pro-level devices or have meetings where wi-fi may not be available. People don't want a notebook that is so slimmed-down that half the ports they use turn into adapters they have to constantly lug around, if they even remember to bring them.

I can almost even understand Apple's decision to nix the ethernet port; wi-fi is fairly ubiquitous these days. But to drop the Firewire port when so many devices/interfaces in industries like post-production and audio engineering still use Firewire is absurd. In the old days, Apple continued to give folks a Firewire 400 port even when 800 had clearly come into its own. But now Thunderbolt is barely out of the gate and Apple has already nixed Firewire 800. It makes no sense, if their purpose is still to support professional users.

igazza
Jun 14, 2012, 09:02 PM
Im hoping Apple make a 13 inch version soon. :)

hipnetic
Jun 14, 2012, 09:05 PM
I think that's a poor statement. Why did apple include display adapters in previous models, even for those people that don't use external monitors? Or why set 8gig standard on base models when some people may only use 4.That's a poor comparison, IMO. Apple provided video cable dongles when they were introducing an all-new video standard (e.g., Thunderbolt). Ethernet's time has long since passed as a must-have for the majority of people. WiFi has been around *FOREVER*. For the *FEW* who need it, a dongle is available for a modest cost, and the majority of users *DON'T* need one.

You, and Apple are making the assumption that the majority don't use these things. Maybe over time, but like I said, phase them out gracefully without leaving a bitter taste with loyal customers.A 'bitter taste' for a tiny percentage of the population. And they can buy one. The vast majority of users will be happy that they now have a slimmer/lighter laptop now that a port they don't need isn't built in.

----------

The lack of ethernet is ridiculous on a professional-level computer, and even a lot of home users have spotty or no wifi. Wifi in my room is horrible, and it's slower than ethernet even in good areas.If you have bad WiFi in your home, buy a new router, or maybe your house is extra-large, in case buy an extender or two. Why does anyone buy a laptop with the intention/desire of shackling it to a desk? Maybe you ought to be buying a desktop computer instead?

sennekuyl
Jun 14, 2012, 09:07 PM
I'm being persuaded that losing ethernet isnt so bad, unless you work with large files. Sadly I've never worked out how market my IT skills to be more than bar money.

To the blokes telling people to be 'entrepreneurial', what you are missing is that many of the 'middle class' are already doing that to pay the bills you readily dismiss.

Possibly you think that your success is down to you. While there's no doubt you have worked very hard to get where you are, factors outside their control often push the financial power they desire beyond their current reach. I've seen people working far harder than myself get knocked down time & time again despite their efforts.

Too often I see people in my similarly fortunate position bemoan the lack of enterprise on the part of others & admonishments to work harder. It becomes particularly apparent when the poorer colleagues express disappointment that certain items are beyond their reach.

Sure there are proportions of the population that don't work hard nor make an effort to earn diddly squat. But it has never been directly correlated to financial capacity to my knowledge. That path lies arrogance & self deceit. My response to that is a slight modification to an old adage: "Power corrupts to the degree it is believed to be deserved or earned."

driceman
Jun 14, 2012, 09:08 PM
In before "this is cool, but despite what the reviews say , revision a products always have bugs so I think i'll wait for the one that comes out in two revisions which is the one I buy so it doesn't have any bugs and extra features for a lower price. Besides my late 2011 macbook pro still does everything I need it to so this machine is crap anyway".

I have to disagree. I have a late 2011 MacBook Pro, it does everything I need, and the new Pro looks awesome anyway. :P

fitshaced
Jun 14, 2012, 09:08 PM
That's a poor comparison, IMO. Apple provided video cable dongles when they were introducing an all-new video standard (e.g., Thunderbolt). Ethernet's time has long since passed as a must-have for the majority of people. WiFi has been around *FOREVER*. For the *FEW* who need it, a dongle is available for a modest cost, and the majority of users *DON'T* need one.

A 'bitter taste' for a tiny percentage of the population. And they can buy one. The vast majority of users will be happy that they now have a slimmer/lighter laptop now that a port they don't need isn't built in.

Well now you're blatantly making that assumption. Who did your research? Even Apple can't claim to know.

As has been said above, a pro machine should have adaptability built in. If you don't want the ports, the alternative should be the lower model.

You cannot claim to be a part of the majority.

Bauer24
Jun 14, 2012, 09:13 PM
that seems like a lot for a 15" weren't the 17" around that price?

Nah. This Retina Pro is priced pretty well IMO. I think people have forgotten where Pro's were just a few years ago.

When I bought my first MacBook Pro in 2007, I paid $2199 plus tax (~$2496) for:
-Intel Core 2 Duo 2.16 Ghz
-1440 x 900
-1 GB RAM
-120 GB drive (not SSD haha)
-non-LED screen (CCFL so the brightness was not as good), non-glass, non-multi-touch pad
-backlit, USB 2, DVI out, Express card, no SD slot, FW 400/800, shorter battery life than current.

I'd say this is a great buy - or if not that, it's not an unexpected price at all.

hipnetic
Jun 14, 2012, 09:27 PM
To the blokes telling people to be 'entrepreneurial', what you are missing is that many of the 'middle class' are already doing that to pay the bills you readily dismiss.

Possibly you think that your success is down to you. While there's no doubt you have worked very hard to get where you are, factors outside their control often push the financial power they desire beyond their current reach. I've seen people working far harder than myself get knocked down time & time again despite their efforts.

...

Sure there are proportions of the population that don't work hard nor make an effort to earn diddly squat. But it has never been directly correlated to financial capacity to my knowledge. That path lies arrogance & self deceit. My response to that is a slight modification to an old adage: "Power corrupts to the degree it is believed to be deserved or earned."With all due respect, why are some of you using these forums to moan about political/economic class concerns? Things cost money. No one has a *right* to the latest and greatest MacBook Pro Retina. And, quite frankly, practically no one *NEEDS* one. I'd love a Ferrari, but if all I can afford is a Toyota Yaris, I should feel thankful that I can afford a computer (there are people being murdered by US drones as we speak - I doubt their survivors are moaning about how they can't afford the latest MacBook Pro Retina). As I mentioned in a previous post, the MacBook Air 13" is, IMO, the best bang-for-the-buck machine they offer, and it's cheaper (and better) than last year's model. Enjoy!

doobybiggs
Jun 14, 2012, 09:30 PM
Nah. This Retina Pro is priced pretty well IMO. I think people have forgotten where Pro's were just a few years ago.

When I bought my first MacBook Pro in 2007, I paid $2199 plus tax (~$2496) for:
-Intel Core 2 Duo 2.16 Ghz
-1440 x 900
-1 GB RAM
-120 GB drive (not SSD haha)
-non-LED screen (CCFL so the brightness was not as good), non-glass, non-multi-touch pad
-backlit, USB 2, DVI out, Express card, no SD slot, FW 400/800, shorter battery life than current.

I'd say this is a great buy - or if not that, it's not an unexpected price at all.


hmmmm, well that was back when I wanted nothing to do with MACs lol. Now I remember why :)

Well, for that price back then to what it is now, I have to give it to you - that is a decent price for the new 15"

hipnetic
Jun 14, 2012, 09:31 PM
As has been said above, a pro machine should have adaptability built in. If you don't want the ports, the alternative should be the lower model.Sigh. Two things:
1) It *DOES* have adaptability built in. It's got USB and Thunderbolt ports, and you can hook up ethernet dongles using either, and they don't cost much extra. And since an ethernet port is to be used *AT A DESK* it's not unreasonable to suggest that you plug that dongle to your ethernet cable and leave it right there at your desk.
2) In case you've been sleeping the last several years, Apple's vision of the future for "Pro" devices is about making them smaller, lighter, more powerful, and with long battery life. Their vision of "Pro" is not about keeping legacy ports and clunky disk/disc drives around forever because 2% of the professional community still uses them. And even there, they give you the option of buying an external dongle/drive to meet that need until the device is so far in the distant past (see 720KB disk drives) that they can safely remove even that option.

twoodcc
Jun 14, 2012, 09:33 PM
I'd say it's getting great reviews so far. I think I'm gonna pass for now and wait for retina on cheaper machines

fitshaced
Jun 14, 2012, 09:39 PM
Sigh. Two things:
1) It *DOES* have adaptability built in. It's got USB and Thunderbolt ports, and you can hook up ethernet dongles using either, and they don't cost much extra. And since an ethernet port is to be used *AT A DESK* it's not unreasonable to suggest that you plug that dongle to your ethernet cable and leave it right there at your desk.
2) In case you've been sleeping the last several years, Apple's vision of the future for "Pro" devices is about making them smaller, lighter, more powerful, and with long battery life. Their vision of "Pro" is not about keeping legacy ports and clunky disk/disc drives around forever because 2% of the professional community still uses them. And even there, they give you the option of buying an external dongle/drive to meet that need until the device is so far in the distant past (see 720KB disk drives) that they can safely remove even that option.
Wow, 2% now is it?

ayedgaf
Jun 14, 2012, 09:51 PM
why the hell all the replies with "inexpensive" are getting major negative votes LOL. are you guys all rich? anyone who thinks $2100 is inexpensive must be very wealthy....

Ice Dragon
Jun 14, 2012, 09:52 PM
The only thing that I have against the RMBP is the battery being glued inside the machine. The idea of glue just seems cheap to me.

nec207
Jun 14, 2012, 09:53 PM
Well it's also not an SSD...so...

Seriously folks, this thing was designed from the ground up to include what it includes and they had zero interest in putting in a swappable drive obviously, since they wanted flash storage not an SSD drive. Same goes for RAM...and this time around IMO the RAM upgrade isn't that bad since you get 8GB standard to start already and not 4GB.

There are adapters for ports you want, or how about that upcoming Belkin dock that'll give you a ton more USB 3.0 ports, FW800, eSata, etc.?

It's a great system from the looks of it.

What is the difference of flash storage than say SSD ? And why is it so costly than say the hard drive.

Why is the cost not coming down like hard drive that coming down every year and more GB.

hipnetic
Jun 14, 2012, 09:56 PM
Wow, 2% now is it?Sigh. I have no idea what the percentage is...I'm just tossing out a number to represent *A SMALL MINORITY*. If you honestly think that the *MAJORITY* of people in the year 2012 still need ethernet cable access, then please provide some better numbers. Again, you can hook up an ethernet cable to this new MacBook Pro Retina. You just need a dongle. Can you explain again why a dongle is such a horribly unacceptable option?

I'm sure that some people still need VGA, or floppy disk access, or serial port, or [fill in the blank]. When does it end? So Apple should make a much thicker laptop just so they can provide all of these legacy ports without having to use a [gasp] dongle?

sennekuyl
Jun 14, 2012, 10:05 PM
With all due respect, why are some of you using these forums to moan about political/economic class concerns? Things cost money. No one has a *right* to the latest and greatest MacBook Pro Retina. And, quite frankly, practically no one *NEEDS* one. I'd love a Ferrari, but if all I can afford is a Toyota Yaris, I should feel thankful that I can afford a computer (there are people being murdered by US drones as we speak - I doubt their survivors are moaning about how they can't afford the latest MacBook Pro Retina). As I mentioned in a previous post, the MacBook Air 13" is, IMO, the best bang-for-the-buck machine they offer, and it's cheaper (and better) than last year's model. Enjoy!

Obviously my communication skills need work. *sigh* I really didn't feel I had implied anyone had a 'right' to Apple's product, but rather what raised my eyebrow was several people implying that people who can't afford one need to work harder. Purchasing power doesn't have a direct correlation to work ethic.

I agree with you, both in philosophy and appreciation of the MBPr. Also, I don't think it fair to insinuate others less fortunate are lazy or incapable of mathematics.

:: EDIT ::
With all due respect, why are some of you using these forums to moan about political/economic class concerns? ...
To directly answer your question, because some people were being condescending when other people expressed desire for a lower priced product. Other reply posts to the complainers had covered why the MBPr was good value at the $2100, so I thought I'd address why the condescension was equally boneheaded.

fitshaced
Jun 14, 2012, 10:11 PM
Sigh. I have no idea what the percentage is...I'm just tossing out a number to represent *A SMALL MINORITY*. If you honestly think that the *MAJORITY* of people in the year 2012 still need ethernet cable access, then please provide some better numbers. Again, you can hook up an ethernet cable to this new MacBook Pro Retina. You just need a dongle. Can you explain again why a dongle is such a horribly unacceptable option?

I'm sure that some people still need VGA, or floppy disk access, or serial port, or [fill in the blank]. When does it end? So Apple should make a much thicker laptop just so they can provide all of these legacy ports without having to use a [gasp] dongle?

I didnt say that we need to keep legacy hardware forever. i didn't even say that a dongle was a poor option. I was saying that if these things are being phased out, they should do it gracefully. 3 times I've said that now.

sennekuyl
Jun 14, 2012, 10:11 PM
why the hell all the replies with "inexpensive" are getting major negative votes LOL. are you guys all rich? anyone who thinks $2100 is inexpensive must be very wealthy....

As has been pointed out several times, those despairing the 'inexpensive' are despairing for no reason as the next paragraph shows the author agreeing with them. They didn't read the original post in context yet commented on it to say they agreed with the original post.

Pretty much everyone agrees that $2100 is expensive, but most of us agree that it is great value.

Hakone
Jun 14, 2012, 10:31 PM
What is the difference of flash storage than say SSD ? And why is it so costly than say the hard drive.

Why is the cost not coming down like hard drive that coming down every year and more GB.

The answer may be that there's no faster HDD option out there for the consumer market. Until there is, the rate of depreciation may be long. I think...

Roofy.
Jun 14, 2012, 11:00 PM
I honestly don't know how anyone could give this a negative review. Even if you personally don't like it, it's one helluva nice laptop.

Exactly.

Especially from hearing the rumors. We all expected the next MBP or MBA to have retina deisplays. But no, they ****ed with us and made this.

They could've easily just added a retina display to their lines and raised the price by 200 or 300 dollars, but no they didnt. They made a whole new lap top.

And its ****ing badass. All flash stoarage, thin as hell, light as hell, strong as hell, powerful as hell.... the top review was right. They hit the nail on the head with everything except affordability. But isnt that obvious anyway?

epicness like this doesnt come cheap. You get what you pay for.

hipnetic
Jun 14, 2012, 11:02 PM
Obviously my communication skills need work. *sigh* I really didn't feel I had implied anyone had a 'right' to Apple's product, but rather what raised my eyebrow was several people implying that people who can't afford one need to work harder.I appreciate your tone, so I don't want to argue with you or stretch out what I would consider to be an unconstructive debate. I'll just say that my interpretation of what certain people said wasn't so much that 'people who can't afford one need to work harder' but rather, 'people who can't afford one *but still feel like they need one* should be creative in thinking about how they might be able to afford one.' Personally, I don't think *anyone* *needs* one of these.

And as someone who *can* afford one but who tries to be frugal and is always looking for what has the most 'bang for the buck' I would, again, recommend the base MacBook Air 13". I got one last year and think it's great, and I'm not a casual user...I actually do serious development on it.

JayJayAbels
Jun 14, 2012, 11:04 PM
I am about to buy a Macbook Pro from the states due to the fact they are cheaper of course :cool: And I am in high doubt which configuration I should go for. I've been waiting to read reviews how the Non Retina compares to the Retina, and people say it's worth the money. I will be using the MBP for photoshop most of the time and Xcode programming while I am not a spec freak I do wanna get the best for the money. So far I have never had a problem of picking up a mac but, now with the Retina Macbook do I really want it ? Do I really need it are two different things. So I went out and made a quick ugly pros and cons picture to stack them up. Tell me what do you think.Image (http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/8045/hardone.png)

Thanks in advance!

Cheers Simeon!

I think your post contained a very legitimate question that you truly seem torn about.
I think you should go with the MBP w/ Retina because you'll be working with Photoshop.
I also think that your comment did not deserve the amount of hate for absolutely no reason.

Some of the posters on this forum are faux trolls.

Renzatic
Jun 14, 2012, 11:31 PM
The price argument is simple: the RMBP (henceforth referred to as rump) is the very definition of a boutique computer. It's sleek, powerful, and nice, sure. It's the prime geek badge of awesomeness in computer form. But guess what? You can get something just as powerful, but not quite as thin and pretty for considerably less. You can grab a thick and ugly Sager or Asus high end beast machine laptop. They might be fat as hell, and suck battery power like a wino on a bottle of Night Train, but they'll blow the doors off the rump in raw performance for 2/3rds the price. If you like the thin design, but don't need the power the rump provides, you can grab an air for literally half the price. Or you can always get the recent spec update of the tried and true original Pro for a few hundred less.

The only thing you lose out on is the geek chic factor. None of the abovementioned computers will look quite as fancy sitting on your desk, but if what you need is a computer to get some work done...well...who cares about the fashion statement? Get what you need at a price that won't mean your kids will have to go without their insulin shots this month.

But if you want to get one, then hey, save your cash and go for it. The rump is a great little machine, and looks to be about the best performance you can buy in a package its size. It's enough that even I'm tempted to get one, and I'm about the most stoic and level headed person in the world when it comes to computer choices.