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MacRumors
Jun 15, 2012, 12:40 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/15/ios-6-maps-with-flyover-3d-hacked-to-run-on-iphone-4/)


As we noted (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/12/new-features-in-ios-6-receive-spotty-support-from-older-devices/) earlier this week as part of our roundup of device compatibility for various iOS 6 features, several of Apple's new mapping features including Flyover and turn-by-turn navigation are not officially supported on the iPhone 4, much less the iPhone 3GS.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/ios_6_maps_flyover.jpg


But as reported by SlashGear (http://www.slashgear.com/ios-6-3d-maps-hacked-for-iphone-4-video-15234118/), a member of Russian site iguides has posted videos (http://www.iguides.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=61381) [Google translation (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http://www.iguides.ru/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D61381&hl=en&langpair=auto%7Cen)] showing the 3D maps and Flyover working on a jailbroken iPhone 4. The poster has also included instructions for adding the functionality, although the procedure is not yet a completely straightforward one.

G4OEPKeZH8Y
Apple has historically placed hardware restrictions on certain features of its iOS release, based at least in part on how well older hardware handles the specific features. In other cases like Siri on the iPhone 4S, Apple's limitations may have more to do with differentiation and marketing. But it seems reasonable to think that 3D map performance on the pre-A5 devices like the iPhone 4 simply doesn't meet Apple's requirements, and thus the company has elected not to officially support the feature on that hardware.

Regardless of the reasons for Apple's limitations on mapping features, hackers and developers will undoubtedly continue working on ways to circumvent those restrictions, and we will likely see other features like turn-by-turn navigation also come to older devices for those willing to tweak their devices to enable them.

Article Link: iOS 6 Maps with 'Flyover' 3D Hacked to Run on iPhone 4 (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/15/ios-6-maps-with-flyover-3d-hacked-to-run-on-iphone-4/)



Northgrove
Jun 15, 2012, 12:42 PM
And I assume it runs like crap on the iPhone 4, hence why it was disabled? :p oh wait

MacOSXuser
Jun 15, 2012, 12:43 PM
Finally!!

sshhoott
Jun 15, 2012, 12:43 PM
There is no reason why iPhone 4 shouldn't support 3D maps.

Apple, if you won't give it, we'll take it from you!

nickpro
Jun 15, 2012, 12:43 PM
Tech n99999999ne!!!!!

applegigs
Jun 15, 2012, 12:45 PM
Flyover is not such big deal but having no Street view is a killer... I seriously regret putting iOS6..

caligomez
Jun 15, 2012, 12:46 PM
Yeah.. No surprise there.

ouimetnick
Jun 15, 2012, 12:46 PM
Yup. Definitely a hardware limitation. :rolleyes:

xxgilxx
Jun 15, 2012, 12:46 PM
Did not needed a russian hacker to figure this one out...

inket
Jun 15, 2012, 12:47 PM
Just like there's no valid reason for Apple to disable VIP mailboxes on the 3GS.

BtradI1
Jun 15, 2012, 12:47 PM
So can this be enabled on a jailbroken 4S on iOS 5? Probably not..

macnerd93
Jun 15, 2012, 12:47 PM
with the almost identical hardware similarities between the first gen iPad and iPhone 4/3GS does anyone think its gonna ever be possible to hack iOS 6 onto the first Gen iPad?

Mine is currently running 5 and its fine no slow downs or anything nice and rather smooth, just a shame I cant run iOS 6 :(.

I paid like £600 in total for my iPad around Xmas 2010 with the lil extras and what not, just seems like I shoulda put the money towards a MacBook Air LOL.

if iOS 6 is running on a 3GS adequately I cant see why the first gen iPad cant run it, surely its got more than enough horse power with its 1Ghz A4 chip to handle the OS LOL

I guess thats what I get for being an early adopter

at least my 4S can run all the features :)

longofest
Jun 15, 2012, 12:48 PM
But it seems reasonable to think that 3D map performance on the pre-A5 devices like the iPhone 4 simply doesn't meet Apple's requirements, and thus the company has elected not to officially support the feature on that hardware.

But yet the video shows it working quite well, so it seems equally as reasonable to think that Apple is once again limiting these features purely for marketing reasons.

Dwalls90
Jun 15, 2012, 12:48 PM
Don't post about installing iOS 6 by using the update feature through iTunes without hacking or intentionally violating a license, yet a hacker hacks maps to run on iPhone 4 makes front page news? :confused:

Navdakilla
Jun 15, 2012, 12:49 PM
Nice!!

caligomez
Jun 15, 2012, 12:50 PM
Flyover is not such big deal but having no Street view is a killer... I seriously regret putting iOS6..

Google said they would be releasing a Maps app for iOS.. I hope they don't just rush it and put out a quality app (better than Apple's previous Maps App), because if it goes through the same Gmail fiasco, it'll be destined to fail, and then there won't be any good maps app, for iOS users... period.

Rocko1
Jun 15, 2012, 12:50 PM
Just like there's no valid reason for Apple to disable VIP mailboxes on the 3GS.

Of course there is. They want your non-spending azz to get up and go buy another iPhone.

adamryan1983
Jun 15, 2012, 12:58 PM
crappy music playing

aaronsullivan
Jun 15, 2012, 01:00 PM
Well, compared to my iPad 2 that performance shown in the video is awful. It stutters way more. So, I can see Apple being unsatisfied enough to use it as an upgrade incentive and avoid having the performance mocked.

VIP limitation is silly, but most were expecting no iOS 6 at ALL on 3GS, so I guess take what you can get, right?

sulpfiction
Jun 15, 2012, 01:00 PM
Flyover is not such big deal but having no Street view is a killer... I seriously regret putting iOS6..

Because you lost street view?:confused:

Street view is a total gimmick! How could not having it ruin the whole iOS experience to the point you wish you never installed it? Just curious.

Carlanga
Jun 15, 2012, 01:06 PM
http://cf.creatememe.agj.co/memes/4/9/8/not-sure-if-hacking_or-just-very-laggy.jpg

lostngone
Jun 15, 2012, 01:09 PM
Because you lost street view?:confused:

Street view is a total gimmick! How could not having it ruin the whole iOS experience to the point you wish you never installed it? Just curious.

I won't go as far saying it is a "killer" but street view is pretty nice to scope out locations/addresses before you arrive.

tylersdad
Jun 15, 2012, 01:10 PM
But it seems reasonable to think that 3D map performance on the pre-A5 devices like the iPhone 4 simply doesn't meet Apple's requirements, and thus the company has elected not to officially support the feature on that hardware.


Well, if the video is un-doctored, it seems completely unreasonable to believe that Apple is holding back the feature because it won't run well enough on the iPhone 4.

They are clearly holding this feature back as an upsell to whatever the latest iPhone will be. I'm lucky enough to be out of my contract, so I'll be able to upgrade. Many are not as lucky and not on the same upgrade schedule as Apple.

Damers
Jun 15, 2012, 01:10 PM
with the almost identical hardware similarities between the first gen iPad and iPhone 4/3GS does anyone think its gonna ever be possible to hack iOS 6 onto the first Gen iPad?

Mine is currently running 5 and its fine no slow downs or anything nice and rather smooth, just a shame I cant run iOS 6 :(.

As another first gen iPad owner I feel your pain. I'm a bit shocked apple isn't supporting it anymore. Hulk smash!

NAG
Jun 15, 2012, 01:10 PM
Eh, you can't just call something a gimmick and it is automatically useless. Lots of things are gimmicky but still useful. That being said, streetview isn't that important to me due to a combination of image quality and accuracy issues. You can't see address on buildings in the photos and Google Maps is often off by at least a block when I've used it (both in Portland, OR and Madison, WI). So while nice that you can see a building you can do the same thing using the 3D technology (as you can see in the demo you can get a pretty nice close up of the building).

As far as 3D, yeah it seems to run. We need a comparison of a 4S and a 4 off wifi to see if there is any sort of performance issues that Apple might deem bad. (And I really would like to know what is going on with the VIP feature, etc... since that really does look like Apple is artificially limiting hardware again like they did with the old Macbook to Macbook Pro 13 inch distinction.)

mdelvecchio
Jun 15, 2012, 01:11 PM
But yet the video shows it working quite well, so it seems equally as reasonable to think that Apple is once again limiting these features purely for marketing reasons.

...one video, one city, one handset. really? clearly youre not a developer or QA.

for all you conspiracy theorists out there -- do you REALLY believe Tim Cook is plotting to keep VIP email flags away from those pesky 3GS customers? really? news flash: they dont care. they sell record volumes w/ each new handset as it is. they dont need to dangle "VIP EMAIL FLAGGING!" over the heads of a few 3GS holdouts. get real.

coltman75
Jun 15, 2012, 01:11 PM
In other cases like Siri on the iPhone 4S, Apple's limitations may have more to do with differentiation and marketing.

Wait, I thought we had already found out that there was some on-board components on the 4S that helped the phone listen and pick out the user's voice better. It was a situation where iPhone 4 CAN run Siri, but it doesn't have the hardware to run it as well as Apple would like.

I think Apple doesn't want people running Siri on iPhone 4 because they would complain about the performance and Siri would seem like a bad product.

tylersdad
Jun 15, 2012, 01:11 PM
Because you lost street view?:confused:

Street view is a total gimmick! How could not having it ruin the whole iOS experience to the point you wish you never installed it? Just curious.

I regularly use Street View to familiarize myself with an area and see what kind of parking I can expect. I find it incredibly valuable and will miss it.

zumajoe
Jun 15, 2012, 01:16 PM
Because you lost street view?:confused:

Street view is a total gimmick! How could not having it ruin the whole iOS experience to the point you wish you never installed it? Just curious.

Thought not completely necessary, I happen to find Street View quite useful on occasion. Gimmicks are asking Siri to answer jokes.

BornAgainMac
Jun 15, 2012, 01:17 PM
Too bad the iPhone upgrade are not free for life. You just pay for the data plan. Then everyone can have the latest phone with all the features. Good job on the hackers figuring this out until that day arrives.

ArkRoyal
Jun 15, 2012, 01:18 PM
Because you lost street view?:confused:

Street view is a total gimmick! How could not having it ruin the whole iOS experience to the point you wish you never installed it? Just curious.

You mean the ability to put yourself on the street, so that you can visually see a place you're trying to find even before you ever visit it for the first time is a gimmick??...right.... I'm sure seeing a cluster of buildings from a mile up will help you find that tiny specialty shop you're looking for...not a gimmick at all.

I wont be upgrading my (magically obsolete) iphone 4 until I have access to a google app with streetview.. I use it nearly every time I navigate to somewhere unfamiliar.

applegigs
Jun 15, 2012, 01:18 PM
Because you lost street view?:confused:

Street view is a total gimmick! How could not having it ruin the whole iOS experience to the point you wish you never installed it? Just curious.

I mean in everyday running around between clients work and offices it's always handy to just pull out the iPhone check how the entrance of the building looks like. Now I kind-a lost this for now so I am bit disappointing. Overall experience isn't WOW 200 new features, but still OK. I mean lets face it, facebook sharing is for kids to post random stuff. Passbook is totally useless in Europe we don't use such systems yet, gosh I hope we don't. Siri updated with all these "Sports". As developer I look forward to the new API's and updated Xcode tools. In terms of performance I think it runs well on both iPhone4 & 4S, battery is ok not a big bummer compared to iOS5 beta 1. So yeah that's my thoughts on the iOS looking forward to the final update.

Cheers !

Simeon.

kdarling
Jun 15, 2012, 01:20 PM
Hey...

Russia doesn't use big green highway signs like the USA does.

Perhaps something in blue?

Do any worldwide nav programs pay attention to details like this?

Damers
Jun 15, 2012, 01:22 PM
for all you conspiracy theorists out there -- do you REALLY believe Tim Cook is plotting to keep VIP email flags away from those pesky 3GS customers? really? news flash: they dont care. they sell record volumes w/ each new handset as it is. they dont need to dangle "VIP EMAIL FLAGGING!" over the heads of a few 3GS holdouts. get real.

I'd be naive to think that apple isn't *carefully* controlling how they role out new features and hardware. Unfortunately planned obsolescence exists and to pretend apple doesn't practice at least some form of it is kooky.

applegigs
Jun 15, 2012, 01:22 PM
You mean the ability to put yourself on the street, so that you can visually see a place you're trying to find even before you ever visit it for the first time is a gimmick??...right.... I'm sure seeing a cluster of buildings from a mile up will help you find that tiny specialty shop you're looking for...not a gimmick at all.

I wont be upgrading my (magically obsolete) iphone 4 until I have access to a google app with streetview.. I use it nearly every time I navigate to somewhere unfamiliar.

You said it brother! I use it mainly to see the street if I can park there or should I search for a parking nearby.

L-U-R-C-H
Jun 15, 2012, 01:23 PM
If you're still using an iPhone 3GS and complaining that it's not going to support maps, you've got some issues. That phone is over 3 years old. Time to move on. I'm stinkin' surprised the battery still holds a decent charge at this point. People just want everything for nothing. If you want more features, upgrade! You can't be under contract with a 3GS. Sell it for $100 and buy a 4S...it's not that expensive!

ArkRoyal
Jun 15, 2012, 01:28 PM
If you're still using an iPhone 3GS and complaining that it's not going to support maps, you've got some issues. That phone is over 3 years old. Time to move on. I'm stinkin' surprised the battery still holds a decent charge at this point. People just want everything for nothing. If you want more features, upgrade! You can't be under contract with a 3GS. Sell it for $100 and buy a 4S...it's not that expensive!

You do realize the 3GS is currently being sold by apple?

http://store.apple.com/ca/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone/iphone3gs

djrod
Jun 15, 2012, 01:35 PM
But yet the video shows it working quite well, so it seems equally as reasonable to think that Apple is once again limiting these features purely for marketing reasons.

No, it's not, in the video is quite laggy, a lot worse than in my ipad 3

Ryth
Jun 15, 2012, 01:37 PM
with the almost identical hardware similarities between the first gen iPad and iPhone 4/3GS does anyone think its gonna ever be possible to hack iOS 6 onto the first Gen iPad?

Mine is currently running 5 and its fine no slow downs or anything nice and rather smooth, just a shame I cant run iOS 6 :(.

I paid like £600 in total for my iPad around Xmas 2010 with the lil extras and what not, just seems like I shoulda put the money towards a MacBook Air LOL.

if iOS 6 is running on a 3GS adequately I cant see why the first gen iPad cant run it, surely its got more than enough horse power with its 1Ghz A4 chip to handle the OS LOL

I guess thats what I get for being an early adopter

at least my 4S can run all the features :)

I think there is no reason why it shouldn't be supported on first gen iPads.

I would email Apple, Tim, etc and just voice your frustration and tell them that you want it. Maybe they'll change their minds.

IJBrekke
Jun 15, 2012, 01:41 PM
Leaving out Flyover I get. Leaving out turn-by-turn is ridiculous.

It reminds me of when I had a 2nd gen iPod Touch and I couldn't lock the screen because it was in the multitasking bar.

WannaGoMac
Jun 15, 2012, 01:47 PM
Please stop it. You're ruining apple's plan to come up with reasons to upgrade from the 4!

Sincerely,

Tim Cook

bawbac
Jun 15, 2012, 01:55 PM
Don't post about installing iOS 6 by using the update feature through iTunes without hacking or intentionally violating a license, yet a hacker hacks maps to run on iPhone 4 makes front page news? :confused:

You mad?:D

----------

I'd be naive to think that apple isn't *carefully* controlling how they role out new features and hardware. Unfortunately planned obsolescence exists and to pretend apple doesn't practice at least some form of it is kooky.

If the phone is obsolete, then why continue selling it?:confused:

BvizioN
Jun 15, 2012, 01:58 PM
But yet the video shows it working quite well,.

It takes more then 2 minutes demo to test an app like that and reach some conclusions.

Radio
Jun 15, 2012, 02:02 PM
Eh, you can't just call something a gimmick and it is automatically useless. Lots of things are gimmicky but still useful. That being said, streetview isn't that important to me due to a combination of image quality and accuracy issues. You can't see address on buildings in the photos and Google Maps is often off by at least a block when I've used it (both in Portland, OR and Madison, WI). So while nice that you can see a building you can do the same thing using the 3D technology (as you can see in the demo you can get a pretty nice close up of the building).

As far as 3D, yeah it seems to run. We need a comparison of a 4S and a 4 off wifi to see if there is any sort of performance issues that Apple might deem bad. (And I really would like to know what is going on with the VIP feature, etc... since that really does look like Apple is artificially limiting hardware again like they did with the old Macbook to Macbook Pro 13 inch distinction.)

facetime is a gimmick

Gemütlichkeit
Jun 15, 2012, 02:08 PM
This is just one thing i don't get with apple. i agree with most of their choices but to 86 the iphone 4 from having turn by turn is ridiculous. absolutely no reason not to have it. i get they're doing it to force upgrades but don't be so greedy when it comes to features in your OS

WannaGoMac
Jun 15, 2012, 02:17 PM
facetime is a gimmick

Wha???

In my experience, it's a godsend for people with no technical ability to easily and instantly do video chats. I just say answer when I ring and they don't have to install or configure anything...

nagromme
Jun 15, 2012, 02:21 PM
Memory? Reliability resulting from memory?

Apple does do things just to make money, but in this case it would be odd: replacing Google Maps is a big risk/challenge, and making it work well is of KEY importance. Thus, disabling features for no reason would not make any sense. Disabling them because they’re unreliable in certain situations does make sense. (Because a feature missing is better than a feature that fails too often. Even if it seems OK at first glance.)

blackcrayon
Jun 15, 2012, 02:29 PM
This is just one thing i don't get with apple. i agree with most of their choices but to 86 the iphone 4 from having turn by turn is ridiculous. absolutely no reason not to have it. i get they're doing it to force upgrades but don't be so greedy when it comes to features in your OS

Did you leave Apple feedback on this? If that's how you feel, let them know. It can't hurt.

rafaltrus
Jun 15, 2012, 02:52 PM
I am jail-breaking my iPod Touch 4G. I will install the fix from iTony and post the results here soon!

gotluck
Jun 15, 2012, 03:01 PM
a jailbreak has always been required to get the most out of an iOS device... what else is new :D

seriously though.. every missing feature from iOS 6 probably works on the 4, like facetime over 3g already does on iOS 5 (and iOS 4)

petsounds
Jun 15, 2012, 03:01 PM
In Soviet Russia, 3D maps flyover you.

gotluck
Jun 15, 2012, 03:03 PM
...one video, one city, one handset. really? clearly youre not a developer or QA.

for all you conspiracy theorists out there -- do you REALLY believe Tim Cook is plotting to keep VIP email flags away from those pesky 3GS customers? really? news flash: they dont care. they sell record volumes w/ each new handset as it is. they dont need to dangle "VIP EMAIL FLAGGING!" over the heads of a few 3GS holdouts. get real.

... well then why isn't the feature included for the 3gs? you're pretty much proving the point you're arguing against

petsounds
Jun 15, 2012, 03:05 PM
Leaving out Flyover I get. Leaving out turn-by-turn is ridiculous.


The 3gs and 4 do not have the audio filters which help to focus in on human voices. There could be a legal worry for Apple in presenting a phone in which Siri either 1) might not work in noisy cars, or 2) hears directions improperly and sends someone on a wrong course. I understand the frustration, but in this case there is a technical justification.

Rogifan
Jun 15, 2012, 03:10 PM
Sure Apple still sells the 3GS now, but iOS 6 isnt out yet and once the new iPhone goes on sale will Apple even sell the 3GS?

Rockfield76
Jun 15, 2012, 03:12 PM
Then they should be preparing another unannounced "new feature" in iOS6 that's exclusive for iPhone 5? (or whatever the new device will be called...)
They didn't announce Siri until the time of 4S release.

Or do they think just the larger display and a new processor would attract 4S users to upgrade? Maybe.

3D map isn't that much of an excitement for me although it looks cool, since the map its self doesn't seem to be any better than google's....
I'm sort of a bit worried if it's usable outside of the U.S. too:(

rafaltrus
Jun 15, 2012, 03:22 PM
I am jail-breaking my iPod Touch 4G. I will install the fix from iTony and post the results here soon!

It worked. But it is way too laggy to be usable... :(

8ate8
Jun 15, 2012, 03:27 PM
But it seems reasonable to think that 3D map performance on the pre-A5 devices like the iPhone 4 simply doesn't meet Apple's requirements, and thus the company has elected not to officially support the feature on that hardware.

Sure, and iOS4 on the 3G did meet Apple's requirements?

steve-p
Jun 15, 2012, 03:39 PM
The 3gs and 4 do not have the audio filters which help to focus in on human voices. There could be a legal worry for Apple in presenting a phone in which Siri either 1) might not work in noisy cars, or 2) hears directions improperly and sends someone on a wrong course. I understand the frustration, but in this case there is a technical justification.

The only problem with your argument is that turn by turn does not require Siri, so that has nothing to do with it. In iOS6, iPad 2 gets turn by turn navigation, but does not get Siri.

golf1410
Jun 15, 2012, 03:42 PM
with the almost identical hardware similarities between the first gen iPad and iPhone 4/3GS does anyone think its gonna ever be possible to hack iOS 6 onto the first Gen iPad?

Mine is currently running 5 and its fine no slow downs or anything nice and rather smooth, just a shame I cant run iOS 6 :(.

I paid like £600 in total for my iPad around Xmas 2010 with the lil extras and what not, just seems like I shoulda put the money towards a MacBook Air LOL.

if iOS 6 is running on a 3GS adequately I cant see why the first gen iPad cant run it, surely its got more than enough horse power with its 1Ghz A4 chip to handle the OS LOL

I guess thats what I get for being an early adopter

at least my 4S can run all the features :)

iPad first Gen has too less RAM. Crashing on iOS 5 with normal use is enough. With my 3GS is way slow on iOS 5 too.

tigress666
Jun 15, 2012, 04:00 PM
Because you lost street view?:confused:

Street view is a total gimmick! How could not having it ruin the whole iOS experience to the point you wish you never installed it? Just curious.

I wouldn't say it ruins the whole iOS experience. And honestly, I keep forgetting I can do it on my iphone (how Apple implements you using it is totally non intuitive), but it is actually useful. If you've never been somewhere it gives you an idea of what to look for to know you're there/nearby (and that is really helpful honestly).

Though it looks like the flyover, where available, will be almost as good for that if not as good. Only thing is I'm pretty sure Google probably has more places covered with streetview than Apple with flyover.

That being said, it ran about as well as I expected on the 4, lag render, lag render, lag render. I wonder how good his internet connection was and how many other things he was running on the 4 (basically was that in ideal conditions or was it in non ideal conditions. That's about the best I'd expect the 4 to be able to do honestly so I'm guessing ideal).

Whatever, I don't care, I'm ditching the 4 when the new iphone comes out anyways :P (and I was planning on doing so unless they did something to mess up the phone way before the iOS6 announcement. If I wasn't planning on doing so, I'd just accept that to save money and not buy a new phone meant I didn't get some of the new shinies and at least be happy I was getting some shinies. Though I admit I might not go to iOS6 until google came out with their maps ap cause without flyover, Apple maps kinda sux without having streetview). And honestly, Apple puts in money making that software, I think they have a right to say that they reserve the shiniest features for people buying the newer devices. You know they could just charge everyone for the new iOS instead. Or alternatively not even give it to the older phones. I know before I had an iphone I didn't expect to get any new functionality at all until my contract was up and I could buy another phone. And I don't expect them to give me the newest Mac OS free... it's nice they do support your phone and upgrade the OS at least for the length of time of your standard cellphone contract (and a little more honestly.. you guys think the 4 got shafted? The first iphone wasn't even supported at all on the second OS to come out after it).

----------

You do realize the 3GS is currently being sold by apple?

http://store.apple.com/ca/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone/iphone3gs

And if you bought it recently you got it for free and you had to realize it wasn't going to be as good as the more expensive iphones.

If you expected it to last as long as the 4S you're really really naive and kinda tech illiterate.

----------

You mad?:D

----------



If the phone is obsolete, then why continue selling it?:confused:

Because, believe it or not, there are some people who don't care or need the latest features. It's just nice enough to have a phone that does more than a dumbphone and does some basic stuff like check email and go on the web and maybe help look up items when shopping.

People like my stepmom.

They are smart by going with the cheaper phone as it won't matter to them if it goes out of date or it may not support the newest features (They just want it for what it does already and don't need it to do more). But if you actually care about having the latest and greatest and you went for the cheapest iphone/smartphone, you are living in a fantasy world.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 15, 2012, 04:12 PM
Just more proof Apple Integrity as a company has been going down the crapper for a while.

petsounds
Jun 15, 2012, 05:04 PM
The only problem with your argument is that turn by turn does not require Siri, so that has nothing to do with it. In iOS6, iPad 2 gets turn by turn navigation, but does not get Siri.

I stand corrected I guess. I thought turn-by-turn used Siri. How does it announce direction updates if Siri is not available?

G5isAlive
Jun 15, 2012, 05:19 PM
I stand corrected I guess. I thought turn-by-turn used Siri. How does it announce direction updates if Siri is not available?

Actually I believe you are partially correct... you can ask siri for directions and it accesses turn by turn for you... but you can also access turn by turn the old fashioned map way {smiles}

kdarling
Jun 15, 2012, 05:20 PM
I stand corrected I guess. I thought turn-by-turn used Siri. How does it announce direction updates if Siri is not available?

Like many people, you're mixing Siri the AI piece, together with the voice recognition and output piece (which is widely assumed to be Nuance).

It doesn't matter what does the input and output for Siri. The voice input and output are just like having another keyboard and display.

Siri simply takes the decoded text input, uses current context to figure out what you mean, and sends a text answer to output (print and/or voice).

For voice navigation, all that's needed is the voice output part. No AI.

mrgraff
Jun 15, 2012, 05:21 PM
I stand corrected I guess. I thought turn-by-turn used Siri. How does it announce direction updates if Siri is not available?

It's probably just using the same voice as Siri. The same voice used by VoiceOver on an iPod Touch, which also doesn't have Siri.

Tech198
Jun 15, 2012, 05:48 PM
This didn't take long ...

However, I would jailbreak my IOS device just for this, although looks neat... I'd rather use it on my iPad or iPhone 4S.

No doubt this will be an update though... given time....

In Soviet Russia, 3D maps flyover you.

lol... naturally, they do everything backwards.

stevemiller
Jun 15, 2012, 05:52 PM
As a 4S owner I still think its a dick move for them to lock out turn by turn on the 4. It looked like it was enabled by this jailbreak hack as well though, so hopefully that at least remains as an option.

And if it becomes publicized enough that 4 hardware is more than capable for turn by turn, maybe apple will have a "change of heart".

Giving turn by turn to every device that can run ios6 feels like the least they can do when they're asking us to adopt (aka beta test) their as-of-yet unproven mapping solution. And for anyone saying "just don't upgrade" its worth noting that many carriers will not support anything but the most recent operating software available for a device. Couple that with 3 year contracts in countries like Canada, and you aren't left with many choices are already locked in for a while with a 4.

Tsuchiya
Jun 15, 2012, 05:59 PM
As a 4S owner I still think its a dick move for them to lock out turn by turn on the 4. It looked like it was enabled by this jailbreak hack as well though, so hopefully that at least remains as an option.

And if it becomes publicized enough that 4 hardware is more than capable for turn by turn, maybe apple will have a "change of heart".

Giving turn by turn to every device that can run ios6 feels like the least they can do when they're asking us to adopt (aka beta test) their as-of-yet unproven mapping solution. And for anyone saying "just don't upgrade" its worth noting that many carriers will not support anything but the most recent operating software available for a device. Couple that with 3 year contracts in countries like Canada, and you aren't left with many choices are already locked in for a while with a 4.

Agreed, it is a dick move. I really refuse to believe that it's a hardware limitation seeing as we've had navigation apps running on iOS since the iPhone 3G.

This is why I love the jailbreaking community.

geniusj
Jun 15, 2012, 06:10 PM
For what it's worth, panning 3D maps is slow on my iPad 3 as well. The momentum-base scrolling seems a little broken as well. It looks like there's still some optimization that needs to be done.

Millah
Jun 15, 2012, 06:11 PM
Well, if the video is un-doctored, it seems completely unreasonable to believe that Apple is holding back the feature because it won't run well enough on the iPhone 4.

They are clearly holding this feature back as an upsell to whatever the latest iPhone will be. I'm lucky enough to be out of my contract, so I'll be able to upgrade. Many are not as lucky and not on the same upgrade schedule as Apple.

Are we watching the same video? It looked incredibly slow and choppy to me. Barely usable.

Now, I don't know if it's because Maps is still in beta and not ready, but I'd hardly call the performance in this video good.

petsounds
Jun 15, 2012, 06:18 PM
Like many people, you're mixing Siri the AI piece, together with the voice recognition and output piece (which is widely assumed to be Nuance).

It doesn't matter what does the input and output for Siri. The voice input and output are just like having another keyboard and display.

Siri simply takes the decoded text input, uses current context to figure out what you mean, and sends a text answer to output (print and/or voice).

For voice navigation, all that's needed is the voice output part. No AI.

Yes, I understand the technology underlying Siri, but Apple tends to use Siri to describe the whole enchilada -- the input, AI, and personality. I didn't know they were using specific components of Siri -- specifically her voice personality -- where normally Siri is not allowed, such as the iPad 2.

twoodcc
Jun 15, 2012, 06:18 PM
it probably doesn't run all that well, but still cool that they hacked it

JGowan
Jun 15, 2012, 06:20 PM
Is it possible that Apple is just trying to keep the numbers relatively small that they have to serve? While Siri maybe coming out of beta, the amount of servers Apple needs to keep everything running might not be adequate if everyone had all of the features for iOS6. By limiting the number of users initially, Apple can get a handle on what they need to do to serve a larger audience… Perhaps all the features will be available for iPhone 4 users in the future.

Omniblast
Jun 15, 2012, 06:45 PM
That totally looked like a laggy piece of ****.
It worked but man it was terrible.

harlequinn
Jun 15, 2012, 06:48 PM
And if you bought it recently you got it for free and you had to realize it wasn't going to be as good as the more expensive iphones.

If you expected it to last as long as the 4S you're really really naive and kinda tech illiterate.[COLOR="#808080"]


Why wouldn't it "last as long as the 4S"? Longevity has to do with how well the phone is built.

Do you mean to say that it may not have as good a feature upgrade life? As you already wrote yourself "... believe it or not, there are some people who don't care or need the latest features".

The reality is that a lot of these new features that are being locked out could be made to work (and work well) with the older generation hardware if they put the effort in to optimise the software for that specific hardware implementation. The problem is there is no payoff for doing that since most of these phones have already been bought and are no longer generating relevant sales revenue to payoff these software development costs.

macbwizard
Jun 15, 2012, 06:51 PM
with the almost identical hardware similarities between the first gen iPad and iPhone 4/3GS does anyone think its gonna ever be possible to hack iOS 6 onto the first Gen iPad?

Mine is currently running 5 and its fine no slow downs or anything nice and rather smooth, just a shame I cant run iOS 6 :(.

Your original iPad is running iOS 5 with no slowdowns?! Mine is incredibly slow compared to iOS 4, even with a fresh restore. What's your trick?

faroZ06
Jun 16, 2012, 12:43 AM
Hackers: exposing Apple's BS whenever they can.

I understand their BS. They don't want to give free services that cost them billions to people who didn't buy their products recently while they were making the services. That's fine by me, but it's clearly NOT a hardware limitation.

----------

There is no reason why iPhone 4 shouldn't support 3D maps.

Apple, if you won't give it, we'll take it from you!

This seems like borderline piracy, but I guess Apple DOES allow free download of the iOS that has this service, so you get to choose where to install it. I wonder if Apple has something like the "Mac OS only on Apple hardware" for this ("Flyover only on certain models")?

mute-posting
Jun 16, 2012, 03:54 AM
I wonder if the restrictions on turn-by-turn have anything to do with the new deal with TomTom for maps? After all, it cannibalises their app sales anyway and if it is built into iOS for everyone....

My iPhone 4 is 2 years old this month, I don't have a burning desire to upgrade probably until the 2013 iPhone update.

Siri on the 4S looks cool but not enough to upgrade a PERFECTLY good phone - this years iPhone would have to be more awesomely amazing over and above the 4S to get me to upgrade (although I do like the rumoured design)

Update:

I meant to add, the turn by turn is the only thing (so far) that may cause me to JB my 4, I'm not bothered about the 3D.
I have only just realised from this thread that street view is available in the current app - I have never got it to work myself (despite being in an area that is fully street-viewed by google)

As a 4S owner I still think its a dick move for them to lock out turn by turn on the 4. It looked like it was enabled by this jailbreak hack as well though, so hopefully that at least remains as an option.

And if it becomes publicized enough that 4 hardware is more than capable for turn by turn, maybe apple will have a "change of heart".

Giving turn by turn to every device that can run ios6 feels like the least they can do when they're asking us to adopt (aka beta test) their as-of-yet unproven mapping solution. And for anyone saying "just don't upgrade" its worth noting that many carriers will not support anything but the most recent operating software available for a device. Couple that with 3 year contracts in countries like Canada, and you aren't left with many choices are already locked in for a while with a 4.

SeattleMoose
Jun 16, 2012, 10:22 AM
still gives Google Maps the edge. I just went out of state and used Street View to "drive by" the place I was going. A HUGE HELP to see it before you try and find it cold. I would be happy to leave Google completely but until Apple Maps have a comparable feature, I am still stuck with Google Maps. I also use Street View to check out places I have lived before and show my wife. Very cool!!

blackcrayon
Jun 16, 2012, 10:48 AM
still gives Google Maps the edge. I just went out of state and used Street View to "drive by" the place I was going. A HUGE HELP to see it before you try and find it cold. I would be happy to leave Google completely but until Apple Maps have a comparable feature, I am still stuck with Google Maps. I also use Street View to check out places I have lived before and show my wife. Very cool!!

Sounds to me like we'll able to use both. It isn't as if it would be impossible to pop open Google Maps and use street view whenever I wanted, and use the new Maps for everything else. All Google really has to do is add street view to their maps mobile web app.

tomhut
Jun 16, 2012, 11:02 AM
with the almost identical hardware similarities between the first gen iPad and iPhone 4/3GS does anyone think its gonna ever be possible to hack iOS 6 onto the first Gen iPad?

Though iPad has a vastly larger display and many more pixels than the iPhone 3GS, engine may be the same but its powering a much heavier vehicle.

christian_k
Jun 16, 2012, 01:30 PM
Hey...

Russia doesn't use big green highway signs like the USA does.

Perhaps something in blue?

Do any worldwide nav programs pay attention to details like this?

My TomTom standalone displays Autobahn signs in blue (which is realistic here in Germany).

Christian

Kimbie
Jun 16, 2012, 04:30 PM
With all these improvements to Siri does that mean we can actually use it in the UK for more than asking about the weather? I find it utterly stupid that I can not search for the nearest pub or restaurant. I mean what is the different between the US and the UK last time I checked we still spoke English of one form or another.

But I will be putting IOS6 onto my works iPhone long before I put it on my 4S, if at all.

Kimbie

GreatDrok
Jun 16, 2012, 05:17 PM
Your original iPad is running iOS 5 with no slowdowns?! Mine is incredibly slow compared to iOS 4, even with a fresh restore. What's your trick?

I also have an iPad 1 which is running 5.1.1 and isn't too bad. I feel like there is some slowness sometimes but mostly it works well. However, if I fill the storage up to nearly fully it gets really slow. I try and keep a couple of gigs free and it works much better. Get down to 400MB free as I did the other day and swapping aps and keyboard interaction get really sluggish.

kiljoy616
Jun 16, 2012, 06:14 PM
Just like there's no valid reason for Apple to disable VIP mailboxes on the 3GS.

I gave Apple a pass on map but when I saw VIP not on 3GS blew my mind.

Is VIP some major Siri black voodoo magic or at least Apple thinks it is. :rolleyes:

macnerd93
Jun 17, 2012, 12:17 PM
Your original iPad is running iOS 5 with no slowdowns?! Mine is incredibly slow compared to iOS 4, even with a fresh restore. What's your trick?

just don't keep all the heavy memory apps open using multi-tasking, and I've had no issues whatsoever. Really wish you could turn it off to be honest, one of the features I never use and just wastes battery, and is a pain constantly closing on my 4S as well.

blackcrayon
Jun 17, 2012, 12:52 PM
just don't keep all the heavy memory apps open using multi-tasking, and I've had no issues whatsoever. Really wish you could turn it off to be honest, one of the features I never use and just wastes battery, and is a pain constantly closing on my 4S as well.

You don't have to constantly close apps, especially not on a 4S. It doesn't do anything except purge paused apps from RAM. Unless you are running apps and spawning background tasks with them (VOIP, Navigation) in which case it would be obvious.

The only thing I think it does on an iPad 1 is that if a new app launches, and the OS must purge other apps from RAM, sometimes the app you chose is forced to quit because it can not launch fast enough. I don't see how having apps paused in RAM uses any more battery than not (it's not like the iPad only needs to power portions of RAM that have an app in them).

hayhay
Jun 17, 2012, 02:34 PM
I guess I watched a different video than the people saying there is obviously no reason this shouldn't be supported on the 4...it didn't look like is was running very smooth to me...of course there could have been other apps running and or bandwidth issues...I just didn't think it looked all that smooth...but that's my opinion.

macnerd93
Jun 17, 2012, 03:11 PM
You don't have to constantly close apps, especially not on a 4S. It doesn't do anything except purge paused apps from RAM. Unless you are running apps and spawning background tasks with them (VOIP, Navigation) in which case it would be obvious.

The only thing I think it does on an iPad 1 is that if a new app launches, and the OS must purge other apps from RAM, sometimes the app you chose is forced to quit because it can not launch fast enough. I don't see how having apps paused in RAM uses any more battery than not (it's not like the iPad only needs to power portions of RAM that have an app in them).

well thats what my experience is, why would I make it up? With apps like games left idling and then going onto the browser the iPad tends to be sluggish, when they are closed it speeds up and works as fast as the day I bought it.

Its not an issues in terms of speed on my 4S, but it does drain battery if tons are left open, but I already know this and when I'm done using an app I always close them down.

Red93
Jun 17, 2012, 04:51 PM
Not having street view is going to anger a lot of customers. Most won't even know about it until after its installed. My parents use that feature probably more than any other feature on the iPad.

They were thinking of getting the "new" iPad, but now I will have to warn them about this.

macbwizard
Jun 17, 2012, 05:05 PM
I also have an iPad 1 which is running 5.1.1 and isn't too bad. I feel like there is some slowness sometimes but mostly it works well. However, if I fill the storage up to nearly fully it gets really slow. I try and keep a couple of gigs free and it works much better. Get down to 400MB free as I did the other day and swapping aps and keyboard interaction get really sluggish.

Today I did a clean restore and set up the iPad as a "new iPad" instead of restoring from a backup. Wow. It is 90% as snappy as it was when it was new. Way better than previously. I'm going to be using it a lot more now.

harlequinn
Jun 17, 2012, 08:09 PM
You don't have to constantly close apps, especially not on a 4S. It doesn't do anything except purge paused apps from RAM. Unless you are running apps and spawning background tasks with them (VOIP, Navigation) in which case it would be obvious.

The only thing I think it does on an iPad 1 is that if a new app launches, and the OS must purge other apps from RAM, sometimes the app you chose is forced to quit because it can not launch fast enough. I don't see how having apps paused in RAM uses any more battery than not (it's not like the iPad only needs to power portions of RAM that have an app in them).

Strangely enough there is a paper on power consumption of individual components in a mobile phone. Reading your comment made me wonder if there were any data available. See:

http://www.ssrg.nicta.com.au/publications/papers/Carroll_Heiser_10.pdf

This paper shows power usage of RAM in active, idle and suspend states on an Android phone. Active is RAM being actively utilised by an application. Idle is the phone fully awake but applications are not being actively used (but they are loaded). Suspend state is the phone shutting down to a low power mode, suspending all activities (what your phone does most of the time).

Quick summary is that in idle state the phone uses very little power to maintain RAM, but when in the suspend state it uses almost twice as much (from about 3mW to about 6mW). Even though it is doubling power usage, 6mW is still almost nothing compared to the other subsystems (cpu, gpu, audio, lcd, etc.) in these low power states.

An important point is that when active, RAM consumes considerably more power - as much as 90mW in their measurements.

Depending on the interface used, reading from and writing to flash memory can also use considerable power.

Admittedly this is not directly applicable to the iPhone, but it is a very good indicator.

I think you're both partly correct. Power usage in active and idle states will probably be nominally affected by the amount of memory being used and how it's being used. (i.e. it will be affected, but not by much)

MacDownunder
Jun 17, 2012, 10:35 PM
just don't keep all the heavy memory apps open using multi-tasking, and I've had no issues whatsoever. Really wish you could turn it off to be honest, one of the features I never use and just wastes battery, and is a pain constantly closing on my 4S as well.

I too wish we could at least disable mutitasking or at least allow-diasllow apps as appropriate.

Some Apps I use infrequently and don't need to have them in background.

As for 3GS owners not wanting to update, lazy, and what ever else we've been called - I have a 3GS running 5.1.1 and it's quite usable - lags a bit but still functional, I've just realised it's only got 614MB free - so will clean some crap off and see what happens.

subsonix
Jun 18, 2012, 02:26 AM
It (barely) worked, quite the lag there.

28monkeys
Jun 18, 2012, 02:29 AM
And so thus jailbreaking is popular!

blackcrayon
Jun 18, 2012, 05:40 AM
well thats what my experience is, why would I make it up? With apps like games left idling and then going onto the browser the iPad tends to be sluggish, when they are closed it speeds up and works as fast as the day I bought it.

Its not an issues in terms of speed on my 4S, but it does drain battery if tons are left open, but I already know this and when I'm done using an app I always close them down.

Not saying you're lying, just saying it doesn't make much sense from what Apple says and how the OS is designed. And then it's not my experience. I'd be interested to know what accounts for the different experience though (you can watch a process list with Instruments or top (on a jailbroken device)) and suspended apps aren't using any CPU, and as long as the next app doesn't need more RAM than is available, nothing is done there either that's apparent (to me admittedly) from looking at the performance tools.

On the iPad 1, it's so RAM starved with iOS 5 that even browsing will cause it to go into "emergency mode" and start quitting everything possible in the background, and that seems to cause performance glitches when it needs to do it. So it stands to reason if you closed the couple of apps that are already suspended before the OS needs to, you won't hit that "mode" as soon or perhaps at all.

Maybe someone with the patience and knowhow should do some tests... Fit as many apps as possible in RAM on a 4S or something, and test battery life vs having no extra apps in RAM.

Strangely enough there is a paper on power consumption of individual components in a mobile phone. Reading your comment made me wonder if there were any data available. See:

http://www.ssrg.nicta.com.au/publications/papers/Carroll_Heiser_10.pdf

This paper shows power usage of RAM in active, idle and suspend states on an Android phone. Active is RAM being actively utilised by an application. Idle is the phone fully awake but applications are not being actively used (but they are loaded). Suspend state is the phone shutting down to a low power mode, suspending all activities (what your phone does most of the time).

Quick summary is that in idle state the phone uses very little power to maintain RAM, but when in the suspend state it uses almost twice as much (from about 3mW to about 6mW). Even though it is doubling power usage, 6mW is still almost nothing compared to the other subsystems (cpu, gpu, audio, lcd, etc.) in these low power states.


Are you sure the "suspend state" they are talking about in that article is the same thing that is meant when an iOS device has an app "suspended" in memory vs. not there? It seems odd to me that there would be any difference from the 0s and 1s from Note.app being written to an area of RAM vs that same area being marked "free" by the OS. I mean is it able to dynamically shut off individual bytes of memory just because the OS doesn't need them? I could see changing the state of an area of RAM would use more power than not. But then obviously I don't understand exactly how RAM state is maintained in terms of power usage.

harlequinn
Jun 18, 2012, 08:44 AM
Are you sure the "suspend state" they are talking about in that article is the same thing that is meant when an iOS device has an app "suspended" in memory vs. not there? It seems odd to me that there would be any difference from the 0s and 1s from Note.app being written to an area of RAM vs that same area being marked "free" by the OS. I mean is it able to dynamically shut off individual bytes of memory just because the OS doesn't need them? I could see changing the state of an area of RAM would use more power than not. But then obviously I don't understand exactly how RAM state is maintained in terms of power usage.

The article's suspend state definition (Android OS) seems to be the same as in iOS - i.e. write to memory and shut all processes down - I'm not positive though. If you write an area to memory you need to keep track of it so there will be extra resources used there (a super small amount). I can't say positively that an empty memory state uses less power than a written memory state, but certainly having it active - reading and writing from it - uses lots of extra power. So i'd guess that having a full memory state uses more power than leaving it empty - but the amount of power used would be small.

Spanky Deluxe
Jun 18, 2012, 12:14 PM
I'm surprised Apple isn't enabling the 3D functionality on all iOS 6 devices as it is potentially the only thing that can come close to emulation Streetview. As it stands I haven't installed iOS 6 on my iPhone yet as I rely on the Maps app and the Streetview functionality. Bit of a problem as I'm trying to develop some apps!

Although I know Google is supposed to be releasing a stand alone maps application that will be the cure to the iOS 6 map application's limitations, I don't understand why they never bothered to add Streetview to it's iOS Google Earth app.

blackcrayon
Jun 18, 2012, 12:20 PM
I'm surprised Apple isn't enabling the 3D functionality on all iOS 6 devices as it is potentially the only thing that can come close to emulation Streetview. As it stands I haven't installed iOS 6 on my iPhone yet as I rely on the Maps app and the Streetview functionality. Bit of a problem as I'm trying to develop some apps!

Although I know Google is supposed to be releasing a stand alone maps application that will be the cure to the iOS 6 map application's limitations, I don't understand why they never bothered to add Streetview to it's iOS Google Earth app.

If Google is able to, they should at least add Street View to the web app. Then it wouldn't even have to go through Apple's approval. I'll probably be using the web app for transit directions if there isn't anything decent by the time iOS 6 ships.

Spanky Deluxe
Jun 18, 2012, 12:40 PM
If Google is able to, they should at least add Street View to the web app. Then it wouldn't even have to go through Apple's approval. I'll probably be using the web app for transit directions if there isn't anything decent by the time iOS 6 ships.

My worry is that Google will be slow to release their app as they don't exactly have an incentive - it is only good for them if iOS 6 comes out and has poor mapping functionality. It's not as if Google have been in a rush to add 3D buildings and street view functionality to their Google Earth app or retina support for their web app... :(

Apple seem to be making a big hoo-ha about the 3D functionality and turn-by-turn instructions. The 3D functionality could be great but Google has already said they plan on adding it to their own products and the turn-by-turn feature seems irrelevant. Anyone who actually relies on turn-by-turn navigation will already have bought one of the quality navigation applications like TomTom.

Apple's iOS 6 maps app looks to be about as useful as Ping.