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MacRumors
Jun 19, 2012, 12:24 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/19/carriers-quiet-on-prospects-for-facetime-over-cellular-networks-with-ios-6/)


As part of its iOS 6 preview at last week's Worldwide Developers Conference, Apple announced (http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/#facetime) that it would officially be bringing its FaceTime video calling feature to cellular networks, significantly expanding the usability of the feature for users on the go.FaceTime now works over cellular networks as well as Wi-Fi, so you can make and receive FaceTime calls wherever you happen to be. You can even make and receive FaceTime calls on your iPad using your phone number. That means you can use FaceTime wherever you are, on any device. And never miss another wink, smile, air kiss, or eye roll.But as with other carrier-dependent features like tethering and personal hotspot, FaceTime could still find itself subject to limitations imposed by the carriers.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/facetime_cellular_banner.jpg


MarketWatch takes a look (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apples-facetime-can-eat-up-wireless-data-limits-2012-06-19) at the impact of FaceTime over cellular, noting that it could soak up significant amounts of cellular bandwidth just as carriers are moving to refocus their service plans (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/12/verizon-introduces-share-everything-service-plan-for-up-to-ten-devices/) to emphasize data usage over calling minutes. But so far the carriers are silent on how and even whether they will support FaceTime on their networks.The carriers that offer the iPhone wouldn't comment on their plans for offering FaceTime on their networks, but an AT&T spokesman said the company is "working closely with Apple on features disclosed for iOS 6, and we'll share more information with our customers as we get closer to launch."The report notes that with customers being shifted to tiered data plans on most carriers, carrier concerns over FaceTime usage may be lessened, but it still remains to be seen just how they will handle the new functionality and how it will impact their networks.

Apple's small-print footnotes on FaceTime in iOS 6 mention only that "carrier data charges may apply", making no disclaimer that the feature could be not supported at all by certain carriers. And with FaceTime over cellular networks working under the iOS 6 beta, it seems likely that carriers will support the feature and simply rely on customers' data caps to keep usage in check or increase revenue through higher-cost plans.

Article Link: Carriers Quiet on Prospects for FaceTime Over Cellular Networks with iOS 6 (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/19/carriers-quiet-on-prospects-for-facetime-over-cellular-networks-with-ios-6/)



Peace
Jun 19, 2012, 12:26 PM
Of course they're quiet. They're in the back room giggling over the amount of money coming in from people that have caps.

atomwork
Jun 19, 2012, 12:27 PM
I never understood this policy by Apple not to allow FaceTime when not connected to a WiFi network. Skype video and voice works flawless on the iPhone over 3G.

rafaltrus
Jun 19, 2012, 12:27 PM
"limitations imposed by the carriers" :mad:

Cellular carriers have to be pushed a little by the Congress... too much power they have!

charlieegan3
Jun 19, 2012, 12:28 PM
Making facetime work for everyone will need a huge investment from carriers. Probably means price increases for all customers (regardless of their facetime usage)

BornAgainMac
Jun 19, 2012, 12:28 PM
The unlimited plans was most likely the reason they never allowed it in the first place. Now they can make money from it. I don't know what Sprint will do.

ganymedes13
Jun 19, 2012, 12:30 PM
Verizon's new plans removes the concern for these kinds of things since it puts a premium on data usage.

The carriers will find a way (or loophole) that will force customers into these new plans.

foodog
Jun 19, 2012, 12:30 PM
"limitations imposed by the carriers" :mad:

Cellular carriers have to be pushed a little by the Congress... too much power they have!

Exactly... Hopefully the pre-paid carriers can help provide the desired pressure. Congress can only screw up stuff... money makes companies modify their behavior much better.

hitekalex
Jun 19, 2012, 12:31 PM
Making facetime work for everyone will need a huge investment from carriers. Probably means price increases for all customers (regardless of their facetime usage)

Huh? "Huge investment" for what exactly? FaceTime uses data bandwidth, just like any other VoIP app, like Skype. I use FaceTime over cellular data on my jailbroken iPhone - it runs just fine.

CIA
Jun 19, 2012, 12:31 PM
Of course carriers are mum. Facetime uses a lot of data. With less and less people on unlimited data plans every day that's going to be a cash cow for them!

Then again, not a lot of people use facetime...

Amazing Iceman
Jun 19, 2012, 12:32 PM
Making facetime work for everyone will need a huge investment from carriers. Probably means price increases for all customers (regardless of their facetime usage)

What's the big deal with FaceTime, what does it do more in the sense of putting a load on carriers, that Skype, ooVoo, Tango and others don't do?

What's the big deal about blocking FaceTime??? Just let it be. Not having it available over 3G just makes no sense.

ckelley
Jun 19, 2012, 12:33 PM
I think since we all know about this feature, this should be okay to mention... but I (legally) installed iOS 6 onto my iPhone before heading out on a trip to Kansas City. It was awesome to be able to be at a Royals game and have a FaceTime conversation with my dad without having to find a WiFi signal. Now I wasn't going to show him the whole game, but I called him via FaceTime and started chatting with him, showing him the game from my vantage point. It was really cool. Granted there probably were some public WiFi spots (we were in the suites level) but the ability to have this capability from anywhere is just great and what it should have been all along.

I'm on AT&T, and if they think about hampering this I will lose it. Personal Hotspot is one thing, but this is ridiculous. There are a multitude of other apps out there that can do video chat over cellular data. Plus, I'm paying you for the data, why do you even care if I blow through it in no time?

Amazing Iceman
Jun 19, 2012, 12:33 PM
Of course carriers are mum. Facetime uses a lot of data. With less and less people on unlimited data plans every day that's going to be a cash cow for them!

Then again, not a lot of people use facetime...

More than Skype, ooVoo and Tango?

The ooVoo app allows for multiple web conferences simultaneously. I would imagine it would be a much bigger bandwidth hog than FaceTime...

ppilone
Jun 19, 2012, 12:34 PM
It's sad - you'll get one FaceTime call per month over cellular because of the data caps imposed by cell providers. Patiently waiting the day where somebody lays the smack down on AT&T, Verizon, and the rest.

Skika
Jun 19, 2012, 12:36 PM
American carriers are a joke.

Bezetos
Jun 19, 2012, 12:37 PM
I can Google Hang-out on cellular. Can't see a reason why I can't face-time someone...

neiltc13
Jun 19, 2012, 12:37 PM
I think with most of the carriers now offering 1GB as standard on the higher end plans (and on many iPhone plans) this shouldn't really be an issue. I mean, there's not that many situations where you'd be without WiFi but needing to make a video call.

Some of the carriers are more relaxed than others as well, I think T-Mobile is quite lenient when people go over their cap. Plus my friend called them and said he wanted data included in his plan (he pays £7 per month I think) and they gave him 500MB per month for free.

CrAkD
Jun 19, 2012, 12:37 PM
Please they've capped all new users and throttled unlimited users they have us coming and going a new way for customers to eat up allotted data is just dollar signs to the carriers.

oneMadRssn
Jun 19, 2012, 12:38 PM
More than Skype, ooVoo and Tango?

The ooVoo app allows for multiple web conferences simultaneously. I would imagine it would be a much bigger bandwidth hog than FaceTime...

What's the big deal with FaceTime, what does it do more in the sense of putting a load on carriers, that Skype, ooVoo, Tango and others don't do?

What's the big deal about blocking FaceTime??? Just let it be. Not having it available over 3G just makes no sense.

I can't find exact numbers, but I presume there are far far far more people that have facetime preinstalled (and therefore likely to use it) than those who specifically installed one of the alternatives.

Huh? "Huge investment" for what exactly? FaceTime uses data bandwidth, just like any other VoIP app, like Skype. I use FaceTime over cellular data on my jailbroken iPhone - it runs just fine.

You're one user. Now multiply that by millions.

dashiel
Jun 19, 2012, 12:38 PM
I never understood this policy by Apple not to allow FaceTime when not connected to a WiFi network. Skype video and voice works flawless on the iPhone over 3G.

Standard operating procedure for Apple. If they’re not confident the quality is up to par they won’t release … well most of the time there are of course exceptions to the rule. Counter to your experience I find Skype to be rather unreliable over cellular or WiFi, iOS or OS X. I get lots of dropped connections, audio drop-outs, in video I get noticeable delays. FaceTime on the other hand is indeed flawless. I have weekly chats with friends around the country and unlike any other option we’ve tried you completely forget you’re using technology with FaceTime.

I’m hoping for audio only FaceTime in the near future as the video call quality is orders of magnitude more reliable and high fidelity that the phone app.

hitekalex
Jun 19, 2012, 12:39 PM
The ooVoo app allows for multiple web conferences simultaneously. I would imagine it would be a much bigger bandwidth hog than FaceTime...

I have never heard of anyone using ooVoo or Tango, but Skype is very widely used on iOS devices. And it uses comparable amount of bandwidth as FaceTime.

I don't see FaceTime every becoming a major factor, as it's limited to Apple devices.. And it doesn't integrate with PSTN. Which makes it more or less useless as a true replacement for traditional voice.

While allowing FaceTime over cell data is a nice step forward, it's pretty insignificant in a grand scheme of things.



You're one user. Now multiply that by millions.

"Millions" aren't waiting to start using FaceTime over carrier networks. FaceTime is just another communications app amongst many.

LeGacY X
Jun 19, 2012, 12:39 PM
Gonna go out on a limb and say this won't be available at launch on AT&T:(

taran420
Jun 19, 2012, 12:45 PM
American carriers are a joke.

Clearly not informed about the Canadian carriers.

Simplicated
Jun 19, 2012, 12:46 PM
Gonna go out on a limb and say this won't be available at launch on AT&T:(

And perhaps when it's available, it will require an extra $20 subscription fee and usage counts against your bandwidth. Now that's typical AT&T.

viperGTS
Jun 19, 2012, 12:46 PM
FaceTime over 3G/cellular was enabled in iOS 5. This is just apple tryig to find an excuse for a 10th "major" feature.

batchtaster
Jun 19, 2012, 12:51 PM
Won't someone please think of the carriers?!
http://i45.tinypic.com/9ibh20.jpg

RoboCop001
Jun 19, 2012, 12:51 PM
It is a period of tiered pricing. Smartphone manufacturers, shipping from around the world, have won their first victory against the evil Cellphone Carriers. During the battle, rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Carrier’s ultimate weapon, the DATA CAP, an artificial bandwidth limit with enough power to destroy an entire wallet. Pursued by the Carrier’s sinister limits, cellphone users race home to dispute their bills, hoping they can remove their limits and restore freedom to the smartphone world...

wickerman1893
Jun 19, 2012, 12:52 PM
So glad I still have Unlimited Data....for now...

John.B
Jun 19, 2012, 12:55 PM
Gonna go out on a limb and say this won't be available at launch on AT&T:(

I bought the Verizon version of the new iPad specifically because AT&T didn't offer the WiFi hotspot feature, and I'll buy my next iPhone from whichever wireless company offers FaceTime over 3G/4G.

Vote with your wallet.

hitekalex
Jun 19, 2012, 12:55 PM
FaceTime over 3G/cellular was enabled in iOS 5. This is just apple tryig to find an excuse for a 10th "major" feature.

No, it's just you spouting misinformation.

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss337/hitekalex/facetime.jpg

zeromeus
Jun 19, 2012, 01:02 PM
The network is already crappy... with this and unlimited plan means even slower network for the rest of people who need the speed...

eyebex
Jun 19, 2012, 01:02 PM
I tried it once when I got my iPad. I thought: cool, neat. I haven't used it since. Am I the minority?

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 19, 2012, 01:03 PM
American carriers are a joke.

Who's the joke on... the American carriers making money hand over fist or those Americans that give them that money every month and can't wait to lock in for another 2 years so that they can have the "5" instead of the "4" or "4s"? Every capitalism exploitation "joke" is easily overcome by the crowd not buying what they are selling. Else, the joke is really on the crowd that can't resist.

convergent
Jun 19, 2012, 01:03 PM
At some point the carriers are going to be facing a class action suit if they keep playing both sides of a coin. They had a leg to stand on when they were offering real unlimited data, but starting to impose limitations when they have data caps is ludicrous.

blumpkin
Jun 19, 2012, 01:06 PM
American carriers are a joke.

Clearly not informed about the Canadian carriers.
Also clearly not informed on the dynamics of how population density affects the huge investment required for **** to work. You can't compare Japanese carriers to those of the US.

Kaibelf
Jun 19, 2012, 01:08 PM
I never understood this policy by Apple not to allow FaceTime when not connected to a WiFi network. Skype video and voice works flawless on the iPhone over 3G.

It's because they were trying to avoid people getting blindsided by overage charges and them getting blamed for it. Now, it's all on the carriers to justify.

Cander
Jun 19, 2012, 01:11 PM
Carriers will just tack on yet another 30$ charge to use Facetime while it uses the data you have already paid for. :mad:

Thunderhawks
Jun 19, 2012, 01:12 PM
At some point the carriers are going to be facing a class action suit if they keep playing both sides of a coin. They had a leg to stand on when they were offering real unlimited data, but starting to impose limitations when they have data caps is ludicrous.

You can only sign up for ATT if you accept that you can't bring a class action suit.

pullfocus
Jun 19, 2012, 01:12 PM
For tiered data usage, things like this will be a huge cash cow.

But I admit, I do get so annoyed and tired of the carrier argument that the reason they went from unlimited to a tiered system is because of network infrastructure limitations. I understand that scant logic, and if it's true, for crying out loud, UPGRADE YOUR INFRASTRUCTURE!


We spend so much time in this country more concerned with profit rather than advancement. We no longer accomplish anything. We just comsume and profit. Comsume and profit.

How many countries are we behind in the world? We're 24th or something, I think. That is shameful.

unplugme71
Jun 19, 2012, 01:15 PM
Standard operating procedure for Apple. If they’re not confident the quality is up to par they won’t release … well most of the time there are of course exceptions to the rule. Counter to your experience I find Skype to be rather unreliable over cellular or WiFi, iOS or OS X. I get lots of dropped connections, audio drop-outs, in video I get noticeable delays. FaceTime on the other hand is indeed flawless. I have weekly chats with friends around the country and unlike any other option we’ve tried you completely forget you’re using technology with FaceTime.

I’m hoping for audio only FaceTime in the near future as the video call quality is orders of magnitude more reliable and high fidelity that the phone app.

VoIP is always going to have poor audio quality. Data doesn't have a direct connection. Packets bounce across multiple servers, providers, etc and sometimes get lost. So when the end user captures all that data, minus any losses or delays, the quality is crap. Providers like Comcast, Optimum Online, etc don't use VoIP. They actually co-mingle their voice data through the same lines and then route through phone lines from their data centers. This is how they get better audio quality. With the iPhone, voice is carried over cell voice network and video is over data. So while your video quality might lag, your audio will always (99.9%) be clear.

lsvtecjohn3
Jun 19, 2012, 01:15 PM
No, it's just you spouting misinformation.


Facetime over 3G is carrier dependent in iOS 5; it is up to every carrier to enable it on their end. Steve Jobs mentioned it at WWDC 2011

unplugme71
Jun 19, 2012, 01:17 PM
At some point the carriers are going to be facing a class action suit if they keep playing both sides of a coin. They had a leg to stand on when they were offering real unlimited data, but starting to impose limitations when they have data caps is ludicrous.

Carriers can do what they want. Its their company. You don't like it, leave.

When people drop AT&T and Verizon and go to Sprint and T-Mobile, you'll see how fast their attitudes will change.

Artey
Jun 19, 2012, 01:17 PM
The idea alone of them being able to block Facetime is ridiculous enough as it is.
We pay them for a dataplan, we should be able to chose exactly how we spend that data.
Same thing with tethering. Our carriers here in Belgium even blocked that, or charged extra for it and we've always had limited data plans.
So you are going to sell me 2GB of data a month, but then make me pay extra for tethering because otherwise I might actually USE the data I am paying for?


Carriers can do what they want. Its their company. You don't like it, leave.

When people drop AT&T and Verizon and go to Sprint and T-Mobile, you'll see how fast their attitudes will change.

And you don't see anything wrong with paying for data but having them decide for you on how to use it?
Honestly, **** you carriers.

elistan
Jun 19, 2012, 01:18 PM
IIRC, 9to5mac reported up to 400 Kbps on a busy FaceTime call, and AnandTech reported 100 to 150 Kbps. In EACH direction. If my math is correct, for 10 hours of calls that's 0.86 to 3.43 GiB.

Medic311
Jun 19, 2012, 01:18 PM
FaceTime over 3G would be horrendous. FaceTime over 4G will destroy people's pathetic 2GB/mo data plans.

Have you guys tried Skype over 3G? It's a slideshow for 20-30 seconds then disconnects.

There is a serious disconnect between the handset makers and the wireless carriers. This BS tiered nonsense is absolutely ridiculous. It has nothing to do with capacity, and all with profits. Little profit on SMS and Voice these days, so throw on the margin to the data plans. The industry is going backwards. There should be NO correlation between subsidized handsets and tiered data plans, and the fact that wireless carriers are doing so is completely artificial. Don't hold a subsidy hostage as a reason to force a customer to a plan that is worse for the customer.

For all of you who are still on grandfathered unlimited plans (such as myself), hold onto them for as long as possible. If that means paying $649 full price for the next iPhone 5, so be it. Stand your ground against this unbelievable industry regression and artificial subsidy / tiered correlation.

ppilone
Jun 19, 2012, 01:18 PM
Who's the joke on... the American carriers making money hand over fist or those Americans that give them that money every month and can't wait to lock in for another 2 years so that they can have the "5" instead of the "4" or "4s"? Every capitalism exploitation "joke" is easily overcome by the crowd not buying what they are selling. Else, the joke is really on the crowd that can't resist.

I don't want to buy what AT&T is selling. I want to buy what Apple is selling. Unfortunately, cellular providers are currently a necessary evil that are sucking us dry and stifling what Apple (and Google, etc.) can do.

quickmac
Jun 19, 2012, 01:20 PM
Leave it to the greedy phone companies to knock technology backwards instead of forward.

You have companies like Apple introducing incredible technology and hell any phone maker these days...not only is it amazing we can talk verbally or textually to people anywhere in the world from a palm sized device...we can stream live two way video, watch video, play games, download, and surf the internet from the same device.

And instead of fixing their networks and updating the networks, the big two greedy carriers are setting limits and charging more for less. I've heard AT&T has blazing fast internet over phones but no one can use it because they can't afford the overages. Most people would pay a premium to get unlimited unthrottled internet but the companies are either too dumb to realize it or afraid it'll cost them money.

And yet T-Mobile offers unlimited data (although throttled) and Sprint offers unlimited/unthrottled data. Sure neither may be as "fast" as AT&T or Verizon but they sure as hell seem to be looking out for the consumer's wallet AND looking out for their own bottom line. Offer unlimited and people will come, make more money and invest some into the network to improve it more AND more people will come.

----------

I don't want to buy what AT&T is selling. I want to buy what Apple is selling. Unfortunately, cellular providers are currently a necessary evil that are sucking us dry and stifling what Apple (and Google, etc.) can do.

This is why I refuse to ever get AT&T. I moved from T-Mobile to Sprint and I'll gladly pay a fair [price for unlimited slower data to the small guys who aren't trying to pocket every penny in my pockets!

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 19, 2012, 01:25 PM
I don't want to buy what AT&T is selling. I want to buy what Apple is selling. Unfortunately, cellular providers are currently a necessary evil that are sucking us dry and stifling what Apple (and Google, etc.) can do.

As long as we can justify it, the "evil" will keep enjoying putting it to us. We're so quick to cast them as "evil" and Apple as "good" while finding so little fault with the latter for building a device depending on them and/or locking in with just one of them (perhaps the worst of them) for the first 4+ years of the device's existence.

Apple could become their own 3G/4G service provider. And/or they could adapt the Republic Wireless model. There's lots of options. But Apple likes the subsidy model "as is" and it exists because those paying the subsidies can make several times that cost by socking it to us consumers. But only the service providers are "evil".

Zcott
Jun 19, 2012, 01:26 PM
FaceTime over 3G would be horrendous. FaceTime over 4G will destroy people's pathetic 2GB/mo data plans.

Actually, FaceTime over 3G isn't so bad. There are jailbreak apps that allow you to do it, and if both parties have a strong enough signal, it actually works ok. It's not quite as good as wifi but it's very useable.

I think there's a lot of needless worry here by carriers and users. Video calling over 3G is hardly going to replace regular phone calls or texting. And from experience (when I was jailbroken and made 3G FaceTime calls), most FaceTime calls took place at home where I was on wifi. Video calling won't take off in crowded places because you don't hold the phone to your ear, meaning you can't hear the other person.

On the subject of data usage, it's not a big deal. Engadget did a test and found that FaceTime used roughly 3mb/min. For users with a 1gb data allowance, that's almost six hours of calling per month, or about 12 minutes of video calling each day. I don't see that happening on a regular basis.

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 19, 2012, 01:26 PM
Maybe make facetime eat up minutes instead of data?

Say 1 facetime minute = 3 voice only minutes or something like that?

Edit:

I wonder if Apple deliberately kept FaceTime as wi-fi only initially, as opposed to cellular networks wouldn't let them as so many have assumed. This way, people use FaceTime regularly at home, realize it's kind of a gimmick and not something that they'll actually be using all that often, and then they won't saturate cellular networks with test FaceTime calls.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 19, 2012, 01:31 PM
Offer unlimited and people will come, make more money and invest some into the network to improve it more AND more people will come.

Or buy up any small upstarts that threaten the duopolistic control over the entire market and keep nickel & dimeing the public so that you can earn bigger & bigger bonuses and ever-happier shareholders.

Those "more people" will come anyway, as evidenced by rates moving in only one direction over the years and yet more and more people jumping at the chance to lock themselves into 2-year contracts to pay $XX or $XXX per month whether they actually fully utilize those monthly services or not.

AustinIllini
Jun 19, 2012, 01:32 PM
I wonder if Apple deliberately kept FaceTime as wi-fi only initially, as opposed to cellular networks wouldn't let them as so many have assumed. This way, people use FaceTime regularly at home, realize it's kind of a gimmick and not something that they'll actually be using all that often, and then they won't saturate cellular networks with test FaceTime calls.

I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't think FaceTime is a gimmick.

viperGTS
Jun 19, 2012, 01:40 PM
No, it's just you spouting misinformation.

Image (http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss337/hitekalex/facetime.jpg)

You're joking right? It was just disabled. A simple plist edit fixes that, and FaceTime over 3G becomes available.

Do some research before claiming I spread "misinformation."

Doc750
Jun 19, 2012, 01:40 PM
I love my JB iPhone, I've been doing FaceTime calls over 3G for probably a year now.

AT&T can go and suck ........

rkahl
Jun 19, 2012, 01:42 PM
Gonna go out on a limb and say this won't be available at launch on AT&T:(

It works just fine over AT&T's 3G/HSPA

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 19, 2012, 01:42 PM
I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't think FaceTime is a gimmick.

You're right, gimmick was the wrong word. I guess what I meant was "a replacement for all phone calls". Frequently, perhaps more often than not, a phone call is all you want/need.

kalex
Jun 19, 2012, 01:43 PM
You can only sign up for ATT if you accept that you can't bring a class action suit.

right. total BS. its called something like one sided contract and that doesn't fly anymore. Give it time and there will be class action lawsuits against providers. Problem is for them its a lot more lucrative to do this now and bring in millions in cash and once lawsuits hit they will just settle them for x amount of millions and be done with it. End result will be lawyers will make millions, customers will get shafted and companies will still get to keep their profits without admitting any wrong doing and promising something useless in return.

On the lighter note when IOS6 comes out you will probably see facetime addon from carriers for a low monthly payment of $9.99

G5isAlive
Jun 19, 2012, 01:46 PM
go figure, the carriers are not lining up to be the first on the bandwagon. I know I am surprised.

Mark5769
Jun 19, 2012, 01:47 PM
Unless the carriers spell out very clearly the 1 minute of FaceTime over Cellular = x amount of data, how can we have any idea how it will affect our data limit? Most of my friends and family have no clue how much data they consume. My daughter swears she doesn't know how she keeps hitting the cap, which I believe because apps sometimes work in the background, which consume data even when the iPhone is in our pocket.

If you knew that one 10 minute call would consume say a gig of data, we might figure that the video call isn't worth it.

My guess is that they like customers being ignorant of how much data they consume so they can hit them for overages.

I am still on a grandfathered unlimited plan from the original iPhone and I will not change my plan for anything unless they force me.

mlmwalt
Jun 19, 2012, 01:50 PM
I only know 5-6 people who even use FaceTime anyway. It's not a huge deal.

BTW Unlimited data in the U.S. is the same as offering king crab legs at the buffet. 2/3 of the people will have/use some, while 1/3 does most of the damage. (This is just an analogy, no empirical data stands behind my opinion.)

My brother and I both have unlimited data on our family plan, he uses 4-7gb a month (on his Droid Pro) and I use <2 (on my 4s). The point is some people will just go overboard without even knowing/caring. There is finite infrastructure in the U.S. I would prefer not to pay the price for other people using up the bandwidth. As an aside, at 3g speed I don't need unlimited because I'm way too impatient to wait for some of the bigger stuff to come through over 3g versus WiFi.

falcora
Jun 19, 2012, 01:50 PM
I can personally confirm that Facetime 3G is enabled and works in iOS 6 Beta 1. I have performed several calls this way and the quality is actually quite good, even in spots with bad coverage. FYI, I have AT&T in the USA. Hopefully AT&T doesn't put restrictions on this before the public release.

rkahl
Jun 19, 2012, 01:52 PM
You're joking right? It was just disabled. A simple plist edit fixes that, and FaceTime over 3G becomes available.

Do some research before claiming I spread "misinformation."

plist edit? Just go to facetime in settings and toggle on "Use Cellular Data".

AustinIllini
Jun 19, 2012, 01:53 PM
I only know 5-6 people who even use FaceTime anyway. It's not a huge deal.

I wish I could argue with you, but I can't. I use it on my mac almost exclusively, and my family back home uses an iPad over Wi-Fi

Rocketman
Jun 19, 2012, 01:56 PM
To simply cripple the image resolution, frame rate, and color depth when the network node is nearing capacity could do it.

Apple already made deals with carriers to facilitate visual voice mail, so they could also do network management coupled to the device and OS as well.

If the network node is busy it could even go all the way down to voice plus occasional still image.

If I were designing it I would also add a feature that saves the original full content on both sides so it can be non-live replayed in full.

Rocketman

viperGTS
Jun 19, 2012, 01:58 PM
plist edit? Just go to facetime in settings and toggle on "Use Cellular Data".

Even better. Point is, it IS available in iOS 5. Apple is just hiding features and saving them for later. :rolleyes:

bushido
Jun 19, 2012, 02:04 PM
"now you can enjoy facetime over cellular for ONLY $20 bucks on top of your already overcharged bill + tethering"

Papajohn56
Jun 19, 2012, 02:04 PM
I hope Apple forces the carriers hands.

HobeSoundDarryl
Jun 19, 2012, 02:13 PM
I hope Apple forces the carriers hands.

How would Apple do that exactly?

rcalderoni
Jun 19, 2012, 02:21 PM
"limitations imposed by the carriers" :mad:

Cellular carriers have to be pushed a little by the Congress... too much power they have!

Riiiight, just what we need, more Big Brother meddling in our markets. :confused:

bmwhd
Jun 19, 2012, 02:24 PM
"limitations imposed by the carriers" :mad:

Cellular carriers have to be pushed a little by the Congress... too much power they have!

I know for a fact VZW was ready to roll FT on 3G with the 4S and Apple put the kibosh on it. Not a carrier issue.

iRobby
Jun 19, 2012, 02:24 PM
"limitations imposed by the carriers" :mad:

Cellular carriers have to be pushed a little by the Congress... too much power they have!

Can't do that Republicans will cry Socialism big government!

mrsir2009
Jun 19, 2012, 02:26 PM
How can they control it? Facetime just uses data like any other video calling service...

newagemac
Jun 19, 2012, 02:29 PM
What's the big deal with FaceTime, what does it do more in the sense of putting a load on carriers, that Skype, ooVoo, Tango and others don't do?

What's the big deal about blocking FaceTime??? Just let it be. Not having it available over 3G just makes no sense.

Because it comes stock on the phone, is natively integrated, and since there is no setup involved, that gives it a much higher chance of actually being used by a large number of average consumers.

There is much less of a chance that I can just call up a random person I know and they just happen to have ooVoo on their phone.

iMikeT
Jun 19, 2012, 02:29 PM
Damn those carriers!


---


*Full disclosure. I am currently holding a long position in Sprint.

mlmwalt
Jun 19, 2012, 02:29 PM
I wish I could argue with you, but I can't. I use it on my mac almost exclusively, and my family back home uses an iPad over Wi-Fi

I'd love it if more people had it, I really like how well it runs.

Treq
Jun 19, 2012, 02:34 PM
Riiiight, just what we need, more Big Brother meddling in our markets. :confused:

They have lots more regulation in Europe, and they are way ahead of us. More competition, better service, and lower prices...

AustinIllini
Jun 19, 2012, 02:38 PM
I'd love it if more people had it, I really like how well it runs.

I wish there were more features. Particularly on the mac. Screen Sharing would be really nice. So would a messaging section so I can send a link while i'm talking, but overall I like it fine.

ThunderSkunk
Jun 19, 2012, 02:40 PM
Twitter & Facebook integration for social networking
Native Mail for mail
Messages app for texting
[iChat?] for Voice Chat
Facetime for Video Chat
3rd Party Cellular for Telephone Service

There's something missing from Apples communications lineup.

KTF
Jun 19, 2012, 02:51 PM
I think since we all know about this feature, this should be okay to mention... but I (legally) installed iOS 6 onto my iPhone before heading out on a trip to Kansas City. It was awesome to be able to be at a Royals game and have a FaceTime conversation with my dad without having to find a WiFi signal. Now I wasn't going to show him the whole game, but I called him via FaceTime and started chatting with him, showing him the game from my vantage point. It was really cool. Granted there probably were some public WiFi spots (we were in the suites level) but the ability to have this capability from anywhere is just great and what it should have been all along.

I'm on AT&T, and if they think about hampering this I will lose it. Personal Hotspot is one thing, but this is ridiculous. There are a multitude of other apps out there that can do video chat over cellular data. Plus, I'm paying you for the data, why do you even care if I blow through it in no time?Well Said, Hope AT&T Dont Play Funny Games!

ThunderSkunk
Jun 19, 2012, 02:52 PM
VoIP is always going to have poor audio quality. Data doesn't have a direct connection. Packets bounce across multiple servers, providers, etc and sometimes get lost. So when the end user captures all that data, minus any losses or delays, the quality is crap. Providers like Comcast, Optimum Online, etc don't use VoIP. They actually co-mingle their voice data through the same lines and then route through phone lines from their data centers. This is how they get better audio quality. With the iPhone, voice is carried over cell voice network and video is over data. So while your video quality might lag, your audio will always (99.9%) be clear.

Then why does FaceTime still work just fine on our wifi-only iPads? Voice certainly isn't being handled via a cell network.

It's extremely rare that I suffer audio glitches with voip services, whether Skype or iChat. Hasn't happened yet this year. I haven't owned an actual cellphone since iPad1 hit. Voip provides the same service for 1/100th the cost.

quietstormSD
Jun 19, 2012, 02:54 PM
I believe the difference between Facetime and all the other apps mentioned. Is that Facetime can actually be tied to a customer's cell phone number tied to that carrier, much like iMessage. All these other apps, tend to use other means at identifying other users. Some may tie it to your cell phone number, but usually you have to jump through a few hoops that it's not as seemless of an integration as Facetime and iMessage are, where one does not have to jump through those hoops.

JHankwitz
Jun 19, 2012, 03:03 PM
"limitations imposed by the carriers" :mad:

Cellular carriers have to be pushed a little by the Congress... too much power they have!

The last thing we need is more government control over business. Socialism has never worked and never will work.

Government mandates will not magically build new cell towers or increase bandwidth. It takes time and money, something government doesn't take into account when issuing mandates.

cppguy
Jun 19, 2012, 03:05 PM
American carriers are a joke.

European carriers are a joke. They have extreme amounts of roaming charges (100s of times as much as normal conversation costs). Often you drive 50 miles and you're in a different country. People living close to the border must disable roaming. At least in the US there's no roaming between the states.

hitekalex
Jun 19, 2012, 03:06 PM
You're joking right? It was just disabled. A simple plist edit fixes that, and FaceTime over 3G becomes available.

Do some research before claiming I spread "misinformation."

Exactly, it is DISabled in iOS 5. You stated in your previous post it was ENabled. See the difference?

I am fully aware 3G/FaceTime can be enabled via hack or jailbreaking.. Which puts it out of reach of average user.

Rocketman
Jun 19, 2012, 03:16 PM
I know for a fact VZW was ready to roll FT on 3G with the 4S and Apple put the kibosh on it. Not a carrier issue.That's just because it would have given VZW a competitive advantage over T. ATT may no longer be exclusive, but various things point to an agreement that new features and capabilities arrive at both carriers at the same time or better. VZW has more 4G LTE built out and is less swamped by existing iPhone customers. If that feature were enabled the already marginal ATT experience would get worse fast. Verizon simply has not had as much uptake yet.

Rocketman

Dr McKay
Jun 19, 2012, 03:16 PM
They're obviously delighted, wondering if they either

A. Stay quiet and hope people go over their limit
B. Attempt to charge people solely for Facetime.

Lindono
Jun 19, 2012, 03:21 PM
Here's the thing, while FaceTime may work fine for you over 3G, keep in mind that 3G's speed is not the same in every part of the country. You tend to get much higher speeds within city limits, while you could easily get a 10th of the speed up in the boondocks. I think that the advent of HSPA+ and LTE are the main reasons behind Apple lifting this limitation. Even crippled HSPA+ is probably "ok" for FaceTime, and certainly crippled LTE would be.

AppleFan73
Jun 19, 2012, 03:27 PM
This is why I refuse to ever get AT&T. I moved from T-Mobile to Sprint and I'll gladly pay a fair [price for unlimited slower data to the small guys who aren't trying to pocket every penny in my pockets![/QUOTE]


I agree with you on the Sprint statement 100%!!! :)

Navdakilla
Jun 19, 2012, 03:27 PM
Good thing I have that 5gb a month data. (plan expires soon tho)

Kavok
Jun 19, 2012, 03:28 PM
This is the biggest disconnect we are having to deal with. The manufacturers of the smart phones keep coming up with cool things to use the smart phone for which are data-intensive. On the other hand you have the carriers that are trying their best to limit how much data is being used on their networks. All this does is catch the consumer in the middle trying to use what they have already paid to use, but are unable to because there is a perceived shortage of bandwidth.

Something has to give. The current business models for the carriers is antiquated and needs to be seriously revamped. They are impeding the progress of communications technology.

Personally, if indeed bandwidth consumption is an issue and they need to throttle people that are "abusing" the system, I think they should follow the model that wire-based Internet providers do. Charge for the speed of the data, not the amount used. Those that use a lot of data will want faster speeds, but those that only check email and text wouldn't need data as fast.

Also, charging someone for an amount of data for use, and then charging for HOW they access the data is double-dipping and should be outlawed. Case in point: charging extra just to use your data service as a hot-spot. Data is data, no matter how it is accessed.

I know I'm getting tired of this tug-of-war between the carriers and the manufacturers.

mantan
Jun 19, 2012, 03:35 PM
I hope Apple forces the carriers hands.

Apple 'forcing the carriers hands' is what got this whole ball rolling.

AT&T was required to provide 'unlimited data' as terms of being the exclusive carrier for the origianal iPhone. AT&T knew it wasn't practical, but since their handwas 'forced' they went with it. Back then average data use was likely 1/10th of what is now.

Yet customers expected a lifetime right to $30 data, AT&T to never dare do anything to increase revenue AND manage to continually reinvest in their infrastructure.

They take a beating on this board despite having the fastest cell network in the US anytime they try to make an extra nickel...yet Apple applauded for taking their customers to the cleaners with everything they build.


The cell companies are in a tough spot. I'm sure they want to support features that help cell phones...but they have to try to keep their network in check.

It doesn't matter if data is tiered, if they risk promoting functionality that cripples their network performance, they will be crucified for it.

ipader
Jun 19, 2012, 03:35 PM
You can only sign up for ATT if you accept that you can't bring a class action suit.

We should each sue individually in small claims court. Imagine if 100,000 customers filed a suit on the same day in different courts all over the USA and at&t had to defend all of these cases independently.

AidenShaw
Jun 19, 2012, 03:42 PM
I tried it once when I got my iPad. I thought: cool, neat. I haven't used it since. Am I the minority?

The majority doesn't have Apple IOS devices....

pmz
Jun 19, 2012, 03:46 PM
How could AT&T or Verizon have anything to say about FaceTime over cellular at this point?

They've already strong-armed everyone onto tiered plans, on which you pay for every single bit of data that you use, no matter how you use it.

Shouldn't they be giddy over anything that drives up bandwidth usage now?

Mr_Ed
Jun 19, 2012, 03:55 PM
I tried it once when I got my iPad. I thought: cool, neat. I haven't used it since. Am I the minority?

I use it several times a week (on WiFi, of course). I've always called home around lunch time to say hi to the wife and I sometimes go to FaceTime on the call. It's really nice, and extra special when I get to interact with my son (11 months old now). These days I absolutely LOVE FaceTime :D

nilk
Jun 19, 2012, 04:04 PM
Of course they're quiet. They're in the back room giggling over the amount of money coming in from people that have caps.

Actually, I think the carriers prefer that people use less data and don't come anywhere near the caps. The caps are just a way of making us paranoid about our data usage so we keep it to a minimum. This is what is most profitable for them, since it means they can have more subscribers.

Moof1904
Jun 19, 2012, 04:11 PM
Who's the joke on... the American carriers making money hand over fist or those Americans that give them that money every month and can't wait to lock in for another 2 years so that they can have the "5" instead of the "4" or "4s"? Every capitalism exploitation "joke" is easily overcome by the crowd not buying what they are selling. Else, the joke is really on the crowd that can't resist.


This.

I laugh every time I see someone on this forum call for Congress (in their infinite wisdom and concern for the individual) to save us from the horrible carriers.

Yes, the carriers suck.

And yes, they get away with exactly what we let them get away with.

Baa baa baa. We all line up each month to feed from the expensive data trough while complaining about the carriers.

We suck.

elgrecomac
Jun 19, 2012, 04:27 PM
Huh? "Huge investment" for what exactly? FaceTime uses data bandwidth, just like any other VoIP app, like Skype. I use FaceTime over cellular data on my jailbroken iPhone - it runs just fine.

This is a man after my own heart. SUPPORT THE JAILBREAK COMMUNITY!

:cool:

bushido
Jun 19, 2012, 04:36 PM
European carriers are a joke. They have extreme amounts of roaming charges (100s of times as much as normal conversation costs). Often you drive 50 miles and you're in a different country. People living close to the border must disable roaming. At least in the US there's no roaming between the states.

so? there's a difference between a different STATE and a different COUNTRY, of course you have to pay more if you use a sim from a different COUNTRY. however there are new EU regulations, so its not that expensive anymore. plus you can get cheap sims in any supermarket e. g. a call to india is 5 cent from germany and incoming calls are always free

i pay $40 for unlimited text, calls & data and got the iPhone 4S for 1 Euro on top of it. i could never pay those sums in the US and i doubt people would be willing to here either. $40 is already fairly expensive, there are prepaid offers for $25 nowadays

Treq
Jun 19, 2012, 04:41 PM
European carriers are a joke. They have extreme amounts of roaming charges (100s of times as much as normal conversation costs). Often you drive 50 miles and you're in a different country. People living close to the border must disable roaming. At least in the US there's no roaming between the states.

But if you go to another country, you can just switch sims because they all have to use the same system. You don't get charged for incoming calls or texts, and if you want to switch you don't need to get another phone. The service is good and they actually have REAL 4G... Not what the carriers here are trying to call 4G. The US carriers could use some more regulation to increase competition and make it better for the consumer.

natedoggfdfl
Jun 19, 2012, 05:20 PM
This is the biggest disconnect we are having to deal with. The manufacturers of the smart phones keep coming up with cool things to use the smart phone for which are data-intensive. On the other hand you have the carriers that are trying their best to limit how much data is being used on their networks. All this does is catch the consumer in the middle trying to use what they have already paid to use, but are unable to because there is a perceived shortage of bandwidth.


Can you even hear what is coming out of your mouth? I love reading these posts because people are so dumb when they start talking about things they know absolutely nothing about. Sure the phone manufactures can think up and implement great new innovations that take up a lot of data. Unfortunately, data is not an unlimited resource that you are entitled to. The carriers have quite a lot of things to maintain so that your ungrateful whiney self can go hunting for other things to complain about. Lets see, the carries have to upgrade their networks to stay competitive, expand their network to cover as much of the country as they can, and maintain their network that supports all their customers, all while doing what they can to keep costs reasonable as their costs go up. Sure, they are making tons of money but they are a BUSINESS. Thats kind of their goal... and plus, where do you think that profit goes? Back into the network so they can make money again next year! How can you not understand that things take time? Just because something is possible doesn't mean you're entitled to it right now..

Apple 'forcing the carriers hands' is what got this whole ball rolling.

AT&T was required to provide 'unlimited data' as terms of being the exclusive carrier for the origianal iPhone. AT&T knew it wasn't practical, but since their handwas 'forced' they went with it. Back then average data use was likely 1/10th of what is now.

Yet customers expected a lifetime right to $30 data, AT&T to never dare do anything to increase revenue AND manage to continually reinvest in their infrastructure.

They take a beating on this board despite having the fastest cell network in the US anytime they try to make an extra nickel...yet Apple applauded for taking their customers to the cleaners with everything they build.


The cell companies are in a tough spot. I'm sure they want to support features that help cell phones...but they have to try to keep their network in check.

It doesn't matter if data is tiered, if they risk promoting functionality that cripples their network performance, they will be crucified for it.

So glad to see someone else on here has a brain..

Glassed Silver
Jun 19, 2012, 05:20 PM
Won't someone please think of the carriers?!
Image (http://i45.tinypic.com/9ibh20.jpg)

Can't wait till we have the next Matt Groening toon pics meme'd on here and after a while constantly get downvoted, then upvoted again for a slightly altered version where Spongebob Squarepants will save the meme by freshing it up a bit and then it falling into oblivion (almost).

:D

Glassed Silver:mac

adder7712
Jun 19, 2012, 05:23 PM
What's so interesting about making video calls over 3G? Loads of feature phones have that ability.

remizart1
Jun 19, 2012, 05:29 PM
what's the big deal for the carriers? It's already being done through jailbreaking!....3G Unrestrictor

kiljoy616
Jun 19, 2012, 05:48 PM
"limitations imposed by the carriers" :mad:

Cellular carriers have to be pushed a little by the Congress... too much power they have!

Remember Corporations are people too. With all the rights of personhood. :rolleyes:

Treq
Jun 19, 2012, 06:05 PM
So glad to see someone else on here has a brain..

Really? You say you love the free market, but that requires competition. The system in this country is geared to keep competition to a minimum. (locked phones, different frequencies, different technologies). Yes, they are a business, and they need to make money, but they will do the absolute minimum they have to maximize profits. If it were easier to switch carriers, things would be much better for the consumer.

Ajones330
Jun 19, 2012, 06:12 PM
I think the carriers will allow it this time around. They can't make the excuse of bandwidth being an issue. People are now on tiered data plans so no one will be a data hog...:)

shurcooL
Jun 19, 2012, 07:03 PM
When my contract with Rogers expires at the end of this year (stupid 3 year contracts in Canada), I'm gonna try to get an iPad data-only sim card and use that in my iPhone.

Screw voice and sms plans. Data is cheaper, more versatile, no contract, and future-facing.

coolbreeze
Jun 19, 2012, 07:12 PM
Carriers can suck it. I pay $50 for 5gigs of data. If I want to use all 5 gigs on a marathon facetime call, then it's my data to use.

I hate wireless in the US. A lot.

----------

What's so interesting about making video calls over 3G? Loads of feature phones have that ability.

It's Apple, the lightningrod of attention.

booksacool1
Jun 19, 2012, 07:44 PM
Huh? "Huge investment" for what exactly? FaceTime uses data bandwidth, just like any other VoIP app, like Skype. I use FaceTime over cellular data on my jailbroken iPhone - it runs just fine.

Same here. I've been using 3G Unrestrictor since the JB for the 4S came out. I facetime over 3G all the time. No issues here (assuming you've got a good 3G connection).

Hell I've used it while passenger in a moving car.

dashiel
Jun 19, 2012, 07:45 PM
VoIP is always going to have poor audio quality. Data doesn't have a direct connection. Packets bounce across multiple servers, providers, etc and sometimes get lost. So when the end user captures all that data, minus any losses or delays, the quality is crap. Providers like Comcast, Optimum Online, etc don't use VoIP. They actually co-mingle their voice data through the same lines and then route through phone lines from their data centers. This is how they get better audio quality. With the iPhone, voice is carried over cell voice network and video is over data. So while your video quality might lag, your audio will always (99.9%) be clear.

Again anecdotally speaking, but Skype audio is far superior to a cellular call. As I understand as well VoLTE is supposed to usher in an era of HD calls as well.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/24/fraunhofer-full-hd-voice-for-volte/

sulpfiction
Jun 19, 2012, 07:59 PM
I can't find exact numbers, but I presume there are far far far more people that have facetime preinstalled (and therefore likely to use it) than those who specifically installed one of the alternatives

Lol..wrong! I don't think u found any numbers. :rolleyes:

iZac
Jun 19, 2012, 08:27 PM
This should be covered, like tethering under the statement:

"It's my data, I should be able to do what I want with it"

Mackan
Jun 19, 2012, 09:04 PM
This is the biggest disconnect we are having to deal with. The manufacturers of the smart phones keep coming up with cool things to use the smart phone for which are data-intensive. On the other hand you have the carriers that are trying their best to limit how much data is being used on their networks. All this does is catch the consumer in the middle trying to use what they have already paid to use, but are unable to because there is a perceived shortage of bandwidth.

You find this pattern everywhere in today's world. By Apple themselves as well. There's a lot of technology they could bring you in their products, but is constantly withheld. Why? Because they constantly want you to buy new and upgrade. That's why you don't get all the goodies you should get. They do this with hardware and software.

The consumer will always be in the middle. Capitalism is what is driving this world. That's probably why everything will go to hell very soon anyways...

chinesedemo
Jun 19, 2012, 09:09 PM
Enough with the defeatist comments. No one is forcing any of you to sign any contract, no one is forcing you to use data, texts or make phone calls. If you want to do the footwork and change your number often there are plenty of ways to keep your bills in check. The problem is you feel entitled. You want everything to be easy, yet you depend on others to make this happen.

I pay the lowest cell bills I have ever paid in my life since I started using cellular phones in 1996. You have to understand capitalism. Things must cost what they must cost, everyone has to make a certain profit, if they don't then profit slips, salaries go down, benefits go down. Which leads to an even further degradation of the work staff. Which leads to poorer service. There is no way around it, we will pay in front end or the back end, it doesn't matter, things cost what they cost.

If you are so concerned about saving, why don't you defend your borders, your laws and your constitution? Why do you let scoundrels feed off your paychecks?

Mackan
Jun 19, 2012, 09:34 PM
Enough with the defeatist comments. No one is forcing any of you to sign any contract, no one is forcing you to use data, texts or make phone calls. If you want to do the footwork and change your number often there are plenty of ways to keep your bills in check. The problem is you feel entitled. You want everything to be easy, yet you depend on others to make this happen.

I pay the lowest cell bills I have ever paid in my life since I started using cellular phones in 1996. You have to understand capitalism. Things must cost what they must cost, everyone has to make a certain profit, if they don't then profit slips, salaries go down, benefits go down. Which leads to an even further degradation of the work staff. Which leads to poorer service. There is no way around it, we will pay in front end or the back end, it doesn't matter, things cost what they cost.


Sure. But look how well capitalism worked out in 2008. Almost took the whole world economy down. Why was that now again? It tells me something is very sick with regards to how it works today. Profits? There are no limits to how much profit a company wants.

FelixDerKater
Jun 19, 2012, 09:46 PM
How well will it work at the 0.2Mbps imposed on the throttled AT&T users?

coolbreeze
Jun 19, 2012, 10:16 PM
How well will it work at the 0.2Mbps imposed on the throttled AT&T users?

It won't. That's your punishment. See what they did there?

jonnysods
Jun 19, 2012, 11:11 PM
My carrier is going to be laughing all the way to the bank with uneducated people using FT.

Fruit Cake
Jun 20, 2012, 12:46 AM
FaceTime over 3G/cellular was enabled in iOS 5. This is just apple tryig to find an excuse for a 10th "major" feature.

3G-Venice

doelcm82
Jun 20, 2012, 02:03 AM
You find this pattern everywhere in today's world. By Apple themselves as well. There's a lot of technology they could bring you in their products, but is constantly withheld. Why? Because they constantly want you to buy new and upgrade. That's why you don't get all the goodies you should get. They do this with hardware and software.

The consumer will always be in the middle. Capitalism is what is driving this world. That's probably why everything will go to hell very soon anyways...
There's a grain of truth to that, but a whole pile of untruth.

If Apple holds back features so that you will have to upgrade next year to get them, they run the risk of some other company offering those features sooner. Instead of upgrading, you switch, and Apple loses a customer...possibly forever.

And you SHOULD switch, if you really can get a better overall package somewhere else. You should switch if you can get a better package for you (even if someone like me doesn't think it's better overall, or better for me).

Or you can just stay and complain, if that's what makes you happy.

dontpannic
Jun 20, 2012, 02:10 AM
I've just had a tweet from o2 in the UK regarding this:

O2 in the UK ‏@O2
@dontpannic Hi Nick, we're looking at FaceTime's evolution in iOS6 at the moment, and will have more details for customers later in the year

doelcm82
Jun 20, 2012, 02:20 AM
This should be covered, like tethering under the statement:

"It's my data, I should be able to do what I want with it"

You can put your data in a box, and ship it around the world by boat.

It may be your data, but the boat isn't yours.

When you send your data over the internet, it travels through many wires and devices that don't belong to you. Whoever owns those wires and devices wants to make a profit on their investment.

swagi
Jun 20, 2012, 02:30 AM
Can you even hear what is coming out of your mouth? I love reading these posts because people are so dumb when they start talking about things they know absolutely nothing about. Sure the phone manufactures can think up and implement great new innovations that take up a lot of data. Unfortunately, data is not an unlimited resource that you are entitled to. The carriers have quite a lot of things to maintain so that your ungrateful whiney self can go hunting for other things to complain about. Lets see, the carries have to upgrade their networks to stay competitive, expand their network to cover as much of the country as they can, and maintain their network that supports all their customers, all while doing what they can to keep costs reasonable as their costs go up. Sure, they are making tons of money but they are a BUSINESS. Thats kind of their goal... and plus, where do you think that profit goes? Back into the network so they can make money again next year! How can you not understand that things take time? Just because something is possible doesn't mean you're entitled to it right now..

Yeah - sad state in the US. Really. That's why it's fun, when Americans are lecturing Europeans on data standards (like the emerging LTE).

Just to put that into perspective - there are several carriers in Germany and nearly all of them use data caps and throttle your bandwidth (most to 3.6 MBit/s). But...

there is T-Mobile, which explicitly offers unlimited 7.2 MBit/s data with explicit allowance of tethering and so on. Check this (http://www.t-mobile.de/tarife/0,10821,17773-_2507,00.html?)

They explicitly offer you to get a Multi-SIM with this plan to use it with laptops or tablets. :eek:

Macman45
Jun 20, 2012, 02:36 AM
Of course they're quiet. They're in the back room giggling over the amount of money coming in from people that have caps.

I'm not even going to try and find out how much my carrier (O2) would charge....I'm keeping it wifi, I suspect that shortly we will see "bolt ons" from the major carriers to allow us to use FT over their networks. I can't see a situation where I would desperately need to FaceTime anybody using my 4S off wifi.....Much money will no doubt be made though.

MH01
Jun 20, 2012, 02:42 AM
Owww FaceTime how I forgotten you, must admit I have never used it, Maybe in ios 6

alexgowers
Jun 20, 2012, 04:29 AM
bah!

facetime will never be big no one needs it over 3G and it won't affect the networks one bit.

If anything needs to change its the data caps and lack of regulation. Home BB is pretty much settled now with caps being upfront and centre and unlimited being actually unlimited and only p2p being throttled by most.

The same needs to happen to Mobile carriers now. They are messing with us, they systems are plenty capable and should have been upgraded long ago. I'm sorry but we have gone from 56k modems to 100MB fibre in a few years yet wireless somehow is harder yet they don't even need wires to end users and charge a gazillion times more cash for it.

macnerd93
Jun 20, 2012, 05:04 AM
So glad I don't have to worry about this. I'm with three in the UK on a tariff known as the (one plan) £35pm and its proper all you can eat data with no limits) tethering is also included in the price, saved quite a bit of money actually as I don't have a need for a 3G iPad. Can just use my wifi model on the train coupled with my 4S.

I'd maybe be worried if I was with o2 though LOL. Everything seems like an extra with them.

I was with them when I had my iPhone 3G (Possibly the worst 3G signal ever) partly because it was non existent 95% of the time in my area and I don't even live rural, I live in a medium sized town.

jroadley
Jun 20, 2012, 09:52 AM
Another ThreeUK customer here with All You Can Eat Data - keep asking them for a statement regarding Facetime in iOS6 but they have yet to comment!

Radio
Jun 20, 2012, 09:58 AM
been using facetime for years over 3G

it works well.

it is a little overrated though

it's not pleasant to hold the phone and have a fat face talking to someone else! :eek:

Ronlap
Jun 20, 2012, 10:00 AM
When will the carriers realize that they are just pipes and are not adding value. The should be prohibited from limiting devices on their network as long as they don't cause damage.

Dionte
Jun 20, 2012, 10:09 AM
I still can't believe how low the caps are. I never thought I'd get hooked on a drug but I think I got dealt the same way by the telecoms.

nburwell
Jun 20, 2012, 10:44 AM
Oddly enough, I have never used FaceTime since Apple first introduced it.

bboyredcel
Jun 20, 2012, 03:29 PM
its cheaper for me to just use an MNVO like Straight Talk and buy my yearly iPhone outright than to have a contract with anyone.

Unlimited Everything for $45/mo, its cheaper to pay my contract cancellation fee, and buy the iPhone 5 outright than to pay for the year of capped/tiered at&t bs.

Something MUST be done about this highway robbery pricing structure for mobile carriers. I'd love to see the justification behind charging $50 for 1GB of shared data transfer per month... this is 2012, not 2002.

doelcm82
Jun 20, 2012, 06:09 PM
When will the carriers realize that they are just pipes and are not adding value. The should be prohibited from limiting devices on their network as long as they don't cause damage.

They can only overcharge you if you allow them to. If the service they provide is not valuable, then find another way to send your data/make calls. Or don't send data/make calls.

Don't wish that they "be prohibited". Prohibit them yourself. You have the power, if you have what it takes to exercise it.

Dominicanyor
Jun 21, 2012, 01:52 AM
Really how many people FaceTime each other everyday??

johnnyjibbs
Jun 21, 2012, 02:59 AM
"Available on all iOS devices"
Except the iPhone 4 it seems...

The carriers were never going to like it, but then people do have to pay for their data generally these days, so it should be a nice little earner for them.

DavidTheExpert
Jun 21, 2012, 03:04 AM
I think in this case, silence means no. The carriers don't want Facetime over their networks, because it's a huge drain on their already over-stressed data networks. If they were going to allow Facetime, they'd be a lot more excited about it, and probably trying to hype it up.

Jewbeard
Jun 21, 2012, 09:13 AM
Whether it be mobile caps or home caps, data caps bring us back to the old days of AOL. In those days we had to pay for each minute of service used. Now that customers have "discovered" VOIP (as was mentioned by earlier posters, Skype, JB FaceTime, and other VOIP solutions have been on the iPhone for a long time) the carriers want to bring us backwards and impose ludicrously small data caps. If you want a realistic data cap for a mobile device in 2012 - think 50 GB. We aren't looking at .gifs and micro-mobile web pages anymore. If you want us to use the "cloud" (another re-branded solution) or "stream" (re-brand) and buy "apps" (Software) then let us use the freakin' bandwidth we need to do it.

----------

been using facetime for years over 3G

it works well.

it is a little overrated though

it's not pleasant to hold the phone and have a fat face talking to someone else! :eek:

hahaha I have the same problem with my fat face on FaceTime and Skype! hopefully the new diet works:D

----------

Home BB is pretty much settled now with caps being upfront and centre and unlimited being actually unlimited and only p2p being throttled by most. Dude, what planet are you living on. Home caps do exist, they are far too small for this day and age, and like any caps they are antiquated and need to be abolished. Anyone who supports data caps doesn't know jack about computers. This tired argument of the carriers/cables can't "handle the stress" is the lamest justification I have ever heard for ripping off consumers.

b_scott
Jun 22, 2012, 02:12 PM
I never understood this policy by Apple not to allow FaceTime when not connected to a WiFi network. Skype video and voice works flawless on the iPhone over 3G.

maybe they didn't know how to code it well enough, or they realize that it would be integrated and so used more than Skype which not as many people have and is an app you have to install.

I'm just glad Apple does stuff like this and pushes companies to adapt. Pretty much "hey, we let you do it - ask THOSE guys why you can't."

bigchrisfgb
Jun 22, 2012, 03:50 PM
Will it really go via our networks?

I mean iMessages all bypass our networks so why can't it do so with FaceTime calls?

brdeveloper
Jun 22, 2012, 03:55 PM
I'm just glad Apple does stuff like this and pushes companies to adapt. Pretty much "hey, we let you do it - ask THOSE guys why you can't."

You talk like if Facetime-over-3G wasn't allowed by a previous agreement between Apple and carriers. How do you explain when iOS5 allowed wi-fi hotspot function only when the carrier allowed it or, moreover, only when the user paid an extra fee to use this function?

b_scott
Jun 29, 2012, 02:31 PM
because again, it was up to the carriers to allow you - they allowed the functionality, they can't force carriers to allow you to use it, that's on them.

unplugme71
Jul 23, 2012, 08:41 AM
Again anecdotally speaking, but Skype audio is far superior to a cellular call. As I understand as well VoLTE is supposed to usher in an era of HD calls as well.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/24/fraunhofer-full-hd-voice-for-volte/

I can't see how VoIP can have better quality then something using a cell or land network that's not based on IPs. Data packets get lost through the Internet.

alent1234
Jul 23, 2012, 08:47 AM
I can't see how VoIP can have better quality then something using a cell or land network that's not based on IPs. Data packets get lost through the Internet.

cell and landline is also ip data packets once they get past the cell tower or the phone switch. have been for many years. decades probably

Wicked1
Jul 23, 2012, 09:26 AM
I am sure where AT&T and Verizon can cash in on it, they will, all of them are looking to make money, so why not charge for a service, or make you get a larger data plan, we all know this is going to eventually cost more anyway.

Sprint may not charge more, but they are bleeding cash and customers, so they will do anything to get more business, just not sure their networks can handle it anyway.

dashiel
Jul 24, 2012, 03:46 PM
I can't see how VoIP can have better quality then something using a cell or land network that's not based on IPs. Data packets get lost through the Internet.

Better codecs.