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MacRumors
Jun 20, 2012, 03:15 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/20/apple-retail-store-staff-set-to-gain-raises-of-up-to-25/)


Earlier this week, Business Insider reported (http://www.businessinsider.com/every-apple-store-employee-just-got-a-nice-raise-2012-6) that all Apple retail store staff would be receiving raises of at least $4 per hour, a claim that the site later backpedaled from somewhat as other sources from the company's stores reported in to note that they had heard nothing of the sort.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/04/apple_retail_employees.jpg


But Dow Jones Newswires is now weighing in (http://www.nasdaq.com/article/apple-retail-employees-getting-sizeable-raises---sources-20120620-01209) with its own claims that Apple is indeed raising staff pay by "as much as a quarter of their wages".Employees began learning of the raises in face-to-face meetings with managers last week, according to three Apple employees in various regions across the U.S. The raises, which are based on performance, will begin appearing in paychecks around the middle of July, two of these people said. [...]

The overwhelming staff complaint during an internal review was wage levels, one employee said. Higher-level retail staff, such as its "Genius" tech support teams and "Creative" educational teams were among the most frustrated, this person said. At one store, another employee noted, a nearby competing Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) retail shop had begun poaching employees by offering promotions and higher wages.The report notes that sales staff at Apple retail stores are currently paid between $9 and $15 per hour before the forthcoming raises are factored in, with Geniuses at the high end of the pay scale earning as much as $30 per hour.

It is unknown just how the raises will be distributed across staff and what proportion will be closer to the 25% end of the raise spectrum, but it is clear that Apple is making a significant effort to increase wages for its retail store workers in order to help retain staff and increase satisfaction amid booming sales and retail store traffic.

Article Link: Apple Retail Store Staff Set to Gain Raises of Up to 25% (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/20/apple-retail-store-staff-set-to-gain-raises-of-up-to-25/)



Adidas Addict
Jun 20, 2012, 03:17 PM
A genius can really earn eh

nfl46
Jun 20, 2012, 03:17 PM
Well deserved. Apple stores are ALWAYS busy. I sometimes feel sorry that they have to put up with people's BS and busy traffic ALL day.

My bud is a genius. He better be treating me to a drink this weekend. Lol.

AR999
Jun 20, 2012, 03:18 PM
Reminds me of foxconn. $9 p/h in America, shameful.

Sackvillenb
Jun 20, 2012, 03:19 PM
I wonder how this compares to other retail and computer environments in the U.S.?

neiltc13
Jun 20, 2012, 03:20 PM
Given that Apple has made such a shift to dumbing down its products, removing Pro features and leaving Pro machines to stagnate, do they really need the "Genius Bar" any more?

They could just stick a poster up showing how to do a hard reset on your iPad, if it doesn't work, put it into this big box and get a new one.

Tinyluph
Jun 20, 2012, 03:20 PM
Reminds me of foxconn. $9 p/h in America, shameful.

Sadly $9 is actually pretty good for a starting wage in retail in America.

lsvtecjohn3
Jun 20, 2012, 03:20 PM
Good for them

Hakone
Jun 20, 2012, 03:21 PM
Kudos to Apple for taking care of their people.

The Apple store that I go to seem to have the friendliest staff I've ever dealt with.

:D

basesloaded190
Jun 20, 2012, 03:21 PM
Reminds me of foxconn. $9 p/h in America, shameful.

For a 16 year old kid trying to sell Apple products part-time, that isn't that bad. I never made $9/hour until I got to college.

camomac
Jun 20, 2012, 03:21 PM
wow. good, it seems only fair that apple treat all their employees
well considering how well the company is doing.
other retailers should take note.

BornAgainApple
Jun 20, 2012, 03:23 PM
Kudos to Tim Cook and Co. for stepping up. Retail employees have to deal with some pretty extreme customers on a daily basis. Nice to see them financially rewarded.

mms13
Jun 20, 2012, 03:23 PM
Given that Apple has made such a shift to dumbing down its products, removing Pro features and leaving Pro machines to stagnate, do they really need the "Genius Bar" any more?

They could just stick a poster up showing how to do a hard reset on your iPad, if it doesn't work, put it into this big box and get a new one.

Sadly this is true. The only thing any of the geniuses have ever done for me is swap out my broken iPhones.

TimUSCA
Jun 20, 2012, 03:23 PM
This isn't happening for retail employees. Just talked to a genius friend of mine and they were told raises are happening, but they top out at 10%.

Edit: I'm curious as to why I'm being downvoted. I literally just talked to a friend of mine who is a genius, and I'm telling you, this is fact. Raises are topping out at 10%. This is still good news, but I'm sorry it doesn't line up with the above rumors.

Medic311
Jun 20, 2012, 03:25 PM
$9 / hr without a requirement to have graduated high school is pretty good. i worked at best buy when i was 16 and made $7.25...i thought that was pretty sick when my friends were making the minimum $5.75 at the time

but i'll remind people that education goes a long way. take the summer between 10th and 11th grade and go to EMT (emergency medical technician) school for 8 weeks, Monday-Thurs 8:30am-4:00pm. once you graduate, you not only will have offers, you will have over half a dozen offers and average starting now for EMTs is $15/hr in my area. the class costs $500 but if you agree to volunteer with a local rescue squad for 6 months (minimum 1 day per week, 8 hrs shift) they pay 100% of it.

don't get me wrong, working at Apple is a great gig compared to the ridiculous work environments of other retail companies.

a 25% raise, when you look closer, still is well under what most people are capable of even at that young age

William Gates
Jun 20, 2012, 03:26 PM
Reminds me of foxconn. $9 p/h in America, shameful.

It's not too bad. Hell, it was only 10 years ago I was making minimum wage at $5.15/hr.

Consultant
Jun 20, 2012, 03:27 PM
Although Apple already pays nice wages for retail, paying more will certainly make its retail employees happier.

Sky Blue
Jun 20, 2012, 03:28 PM
A Genius only gets $30 an hour? Not sure why they do that over a systems admin job that would pay a lot more.

Fishcake21
Jun 20, 2012, 03:28 PM
It would be better if they give proper training to individuals selling macbook pros.

I had a guy who can't distinguish the difference between a radeon 6490 and a 6550 other than its faster and talking about applications that rely sorely on CPU than the GPU. Ridiculous.


But i guess with the recent update, you don't need that much education now on what you are selling other than... "it has a retina display"

Yvan256
Jun 20, 2012, 03:28 PM
For those of us not living in the USA, I'm guessing there is laws for minimum wage? So what's the minimum wage in 2012?


edit: For reference, here's the list for minimum wages in the USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._minimum_wages).

SprodeBoy
Jun 20, 2012, 03:29 PM
Amazing. I love a company that puts money back into itself, and not into high position pockets

Epic Xbox Revie
Jun 20, 2012, 03:29 PM
$9 for what they're doing is completely reasonable to the guy was saying it's "shameful." Glad to hear about the raises, I'd love to work there someday.


For those of us not living in the USA, I'm guessing there is laws for minimum wage? So what's the minimum wage in 2012?
$7.25 federally. Some states are higher.

bedifferent
Jun 20, 2012, 03:29 PM
As a former Apple "Genius" (granted, this was before the iPhone/iOS and when people actually bought Mac's), the general age of the "Living Room"/"Floor"/"Concierge" staff was well above high school. Yes, there were a few near that age range but most were 24 years or older, and a good amount were retired and either needed the cash or work.

I'm sure the general age has changed, but justifying $9/hr as decent in America? ****, things have changed since the 90's! I miss the 90's!!!!! :p

(and back then floor specialists were very computer savvy and had to be as this was before iDevices and the consumer market's interest in Apple. PowerMac's, 20/23/30" displays and PowerBook's were the big sellers)

Medic311
Jun 20, 2012, 03:30 PM
Kudos to Tim Cook and Co. for stepping up. Retail employees have to deal with some pretty extreme customers on a daily basis. Nice to see them financially rewarded.

i agree, they should be making at least $10/hr considering the profit margin on the products they are selling. either give them $10/ hr or give each employee a small share of the store profits at the end of the month that exceed forecasts.

i feel bad for some of these retail employees for having to put up with

1) irate people who don't realize they aren't dealing with Dell or Best Buy, and don't have to scream at the top of their lungs and show extreme aggression to get what they want

2) the technically challenged people who can't retain anything after 3 menu clicks and require constant support for 45 mins

3) answering the phone constantly for people checking serial numbers of inventory to make sure they get the serial # that they think doesn't have dead pixels, yellow tinted screens, backlight bleed, wifi issues, heat issues, yada-yada

foodog
Jun 20, 2012, 03:30 PM
Kudos to Tim Cook and Co. for stepping up. Retail employees have to deal with some pretty extreme customers on a daily basis. Nice to see them financially rewarded.

I saw one "lady" completely lose her mind at the Genius bar when she was returning her new iPhone. The Apple store employee wouldn't give her a refund for all the accessories she bought at an AT&T store because they were AT&T products. I even tried to reason with her. She just kept yelling until the manager finally just gave her the money. As she walked away he asked if any one wanted the cheap rubber case, no one spoke up and he threw it in the trash.

Medic311
Jun 20, 2012, 03:32 PM
A Genius only gets $30 an hour? Not sure why they do that over a systems admin job that would pay a lot more.

b/c you really don't need to be a genius, to be a Genius.

a systems admin job requires a lot more education, and many positions these days are contract / part-time without benefits. perhaps being a FT Genius with apple yields a more stable steady check (just a guess)

brdeveloper
Jun 20, 2012, 03:34 PM
Sadly $9 is actually pretty good for a starting wage in retail in America.

8h a day, 40h a week gives a total amount of $1440 a month. Pretty decent for an entry level job. Now with the increase of 25% they'll pay around $1800 minimum for their workers.

In Brazil I think there isn't any official retail store, but there are Apple employees promoting Apple products in electronics stores like Fnac. I wonder if the highest end "genius" could ever reach $1440 a month here.

doobybiggs
Jun 20, 2012, 03:36 PM
Given that Apple has made such a shift to dumbing down its products, removing Pro features and leaving Pro machines to stagnate, do they really need the "Genius Bar" any more?

They could just stick a poster up showing how to do a hard reset on your iPad, if it doesn't work, put it into this big box and get a new one.

LOL ... this made me laugh :D

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 20, 2012, 03:36 PM
For a 16 year old kid trying to sell Apple products part-time, that isn't that bad. I never made $9/hour until I got to college.

I'm just starting college now, and that is terrible for retail.

I was a grocery personal. When I started (at 15) my pay was $8 an hour for a job a monkey could do. By the time I left, I was making $10 an hour for a job not much more complicated.

$9 to actually be as good as Apple staff seems really bad.

I should also note that the store I worked at recently raised its minimum wages to $8.50 an hour.

Anyways... sounds like Microsoft is having a positive impact to me. They're increasing the demand for such qualified staff and as a result, raising their wages. I seriously doubt Apple will use that to justify increasing costs, especially with Tim Cook in charge who seems a lot more compassionate to the common entry level worker.

For Apple, it seems to me that their expenses have little to do with their costs. They sell their products at as high a price as the market is willing, and they pay as little as they can to get the quality products they want made. Those two rules have little to do with each other.

rumors-reader
Jun 20, 2012, 03:36 PM
Sadly this is true. The only thing any of the geniuses have ever done for me is swap out my broken iPhones.

Geniuses, in my experience, are an exceptional group. They do far more than just 'swap out your broken phone.' You may have been an excellent customer and not given them any grief, but I can tell you this is not the norm. An extraordinary amount of people come in with very aggressive attitudes and take it unjustly out on a Genius (e.g. iPhone dropped in water....angry this isn't covered under warranty).

Apple Retail employees, for all intents and purposes, are the face of Apple. Specialists for when a customer comes in to purchase a product, Geniuses when they have problems, Creatives when they come for training.

I think it's safe to say Apple Retail are there because they want to be and are proud to be employees of Apple.

Cathode
Jun 20, 2012, 03:36 PM
For a 16 year old kid trying to sell Apple products part-time, that isn't that bad. I never made $9/hour until I got to college.

It's not too bad. Hell, it was only 10 years ago I was making minimum wage at $5.15/hr.

Let me introduce you to something called inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation).

bedifferent
Jun 20, 2012, 03:37 PM
b/c you really don't need to be a genius, to be a Genius.

a systems admin job requires a lot more education, and many positions these days are contract / part-time without benefits. perhaps being a FT Genius with apple yields a more stable steady check (just a guess)

It's a shame, when I was behind the bar before 2006, we were on salary and not by the hour, with avg pay ~$50k/year depending on position and store. We had to have two weeks training at Cupertino and at least an associates degree in computer science or such.

I didn't realize they are hourly now (or at least some). Yes, the general consumer has iDevices or perhaps a MacBook/Pro or iMac, back then most of our work dealt with PowerMac's and displays, and the occasional issue with syncing a RAZR with OS X. Times change.

thekev
Jun 20, 2012, 03:37 PM
A genius can really earn eh

I wonder about the accuracy of that.

Sadly $9 is actually pretty good for a starting wage in retail in America.

Let's see.... minimum wage is $7.25 in the US. Certain states and cities have it set higher, so it can be over $9 in certain places. It's all relative, but I'd hardly call it good even for an easy job. Apple Store employees aren't always that knowledgeable, but I always felt the Apple Stores were there to make you want to buy things after messing with them. They're spaced out giving you a certain amount of personal space. The display machines are well maintained and operate smoothly, and the buildings always look different when compared to the surrounding retail structures.

Given that Apple has made such a shift to dumbing down its products, removing Pro features and leaving Pro machines to stagnate, do they really need the "Genius Bar" any more?

They could just stick a poster up showing how to do a hard reset on your iPad, if it doesn't work, put it into this big box and get a new one.

Aside from a couple of them that were pretty cool and knew Unix commands, most of them aren't very helpful if it's a significant problem. They act more like a check in station that can deal with some of the simple problems presented by people who are extremely tech illiterate. They were never about "Pro:cool:" machines and features. If it needed real testing, the machine would still be checked in. This has always been the case.

Anti-Lucifer
Jun 20, 2012, 03:38 PM
They deserve the pay raise. A retail job is as sh`tty as cleaning toilets for a living. Both jobs deal with crap and scum.

doobybiggs
Jun 20, 2012, 03:38 PM
b/c you really don't need to be a genius, to be a Genius.

a systems admin job requires a lot more education, and many positions these days are contract / part-time without benefits. perhaps being a FT Genius with apple yields a more stable steady check (just a guess)


This ^^ I had to help my genius hook up my mac mini to a TV when I brought it in for HDMI problems lol

System admin jobs also probably want certain certifications ... Apple just wants you to somewhat know the product (more than the average consumer) I am guessing.

SprodeBoy
Jun 20, 2012, 03:39 PM
For those who do not live in America, minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. In some cases a company may not have to pay minimum wages ( they are small). I have been working at the same grocery store for 8 months and I still make $7.25. The pay instead is relatively good for a retail job

fabian9
Jun 20, 2012, 03:40 PM
$30/hr for a Genius? Makes me wonder how much their engineers get paid… Once I'm done making planes I'll join Apple. :)

EDIT: -4? Really? What's wrong with this?!

doobybiggs
Jun 20, 2012, 03:40 PM
They deserve the pay raise. A retail job is as sh`tty as cleaning toilets for a living. Both jobs deal with crap and scum.

yep, they do have to deal with a ton of entitled customers who think they can speak however they want to you just because you work in a store they have to visit.

Plus, with apple having a billion in cash floating around, there is no reason to not bump everyones pay!!

benpatient
Jun 20, 2012, 03:42 PM
A Genius only gets $30 an hour? Not sure why they do that over a systems admin job that would pay a lot more.

because the bar to becoming a "Genius" is quite a bit lower than the bar to becoming a real sys admin.

The primary difference between "Genius" and someone with good Google-fu these days is that the "Genius" has access to little ipod-based hardware utilities that he can plug into your iDevice and run an automated diagnostic test.

Battery trouble with your MBP? Let me plug this little iPod in and push "test battery." Oh, OK. it says your power supply has failed. Please stand by while I scan a barcode and the system tells me which drawer the replacement part is in.

Nothing wrong with automating systems. But if you have a real confusing problem that would require some actual knowledge and detective work, most of the new "Genius Bar" attendees today couldn't tell you one end of a terminal prompt from another. Walk in there and tell them you're having trouble with an XGrid node and watch their eyes glaze over.

ladeer
Jun 20, 2012, 03:43 PM
$30/hours = $60k/year. that's very sad if they pay the most experienced genius at that wage. i can't imagine the quality of employees they can find at $9-15/hour...it's a minor miracle they have such a good morale, but i still find 3/4 of the employees clueless on their technology. for example, no one could tell me if the new MBA SSD was as fast as retina, or if they carry Thunderbolt storage device (raid 0 external hard drive), or if Xcode is retina optimized, etc.

user418
Jun 20, 2012, 03:44 PM
With the economy the way still faltering it's good to see the average employee get a raise. Usually all we hear about is the extraordinary pay of the high level execs.

basesloaded190
Jun 20, 2012, 03:44 PM
Let me introduce you to something called inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation).

Let me explain that I was in college 2 years ago.

brdeveloper
Jun 20, 2012, 03:44 PM
yep, they do have to deal with a ton of entitled customers who think they can speak however they want to you just because you work in a store they have to visit.

Plus, with apple having a billion in cash floating around, there is no reason to not bump everyones pay!!

Americans look like liberals when talking about Foxconn workers, but argue like socialists when talking about american Apple workers.

Ubuntu
Jun 20, 2012, 03:46 PM
About time. I only worked in the Apple Store for a year, but in that short amount of time I saw managers introduce more and more responsibilities while the pay stayed the same, and that's why I left in the end. It's a great place to work in, but I'm glad I've moved onto a job that pays twice as much and isn't anywhere near as stressful. Bottom line, these people deserve the pay rise.

Jiten
Jun 20, 2012, 03:47 PM
I saw one "lady" completely lose her mind at the Genius bar when she was returning her new iPhone. The Apple store employee wouldn't give her a refund for all the accessories she bought at an AT&T store because they were AT&T products. I even tried to reason with her. She just kept yelling until the manager finally just gave her the money. As she walked away he asked if any one wanted the cheap rubber case, no one spoke up and he threw it in the trash.

Saw a rather similar case in another store. I wish I had the presence of mind to have turned on my iPhone's video camera and started shooting. This is one of the reasons I try to be kind to retail staff despite of the fact they irritate me with their lack of product knowledge, they have to deal with trash like this by the handful.

DJsteveSD
Jun 20, 2012, 03:49 PM
This isn't happening for retail employees. Just talked to a genius friend of mine and they were told raises are happening, but they top out at 10%.

Still, 10% is more than you get at Corporate America! :mad:

swingerofbirch
Jun 20, 2012, 03:50 PM
$30/hour for a genius seems high. I'm an AppleCare tier 1 advisor and make $9.15 an hour, and tier 2 advisors make $10.15 an hour at the vendor I work for (it's obviously much higher if you work for Apple directly, but most AppleCare advisors are contracted). I get calls from geniuses all the time to do consults (they're supposed to consult with tier 2s but accidentally call tier 1 sometimes) and I often have to walk them step by step through some pretty simple procedures. Frustrating because they don't even realize I'm contracted and don't get their same perks, i.e., healthcare benefits, discounts, stock options, etc.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 20, 2012, 03:51 PM
Its about time. Being a Genius in a high traffic store making 15 bucks an hour was ridiculous. Our lead was only making like 20. Once I left Apple my salary tripled.

$30/hour for a genius seems high. I'm an AppleCare tier 1 advisor and make $9.15 an hour, and tier 2 advisors make $10.15 an hour at the vendor I work for (it's obviously much higher if you work for Apple directly, but most AppleCare advisors are contracted). I get calls from geniuses all the time to do consults (they're supposed to consult with tier 2s but accidentally call tier 1 sometimes) and I often have to walk them step by step through some pretty simple procedures. Frustrating because they don't even realize I'm contracted and don't get their same perks, i.e., healthcare benefits, discounts, stock options, etc.

Thats because all the good Genii left Apple years ago because of terrible pay and the new Genii being terribly trained and not competent.

Sensation
Jun 20, 2012, 03:51 PM
They dont need to give them more money, there are plenty more unskilled workers to replace any of their staff.

doobybiggs
Jun 20, 2012, 03:51 PM
Still, 10% is more than you get at Corporate America! :mad:

depends on the company ;)

William Gates
Jun 20, 2012, 03:51 PM
Let me introduce you to something called inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation).


Thanks for the education. $9/hr isn't bad for a starting position. Try getting a job in a restaurant and see how long it takes to start making $9/hr. I'm sure you have to put up with similar egos in both jobs.

Ryth
Jun 20, 2012, 03:52 PM
Anyone have any idea what the 'Creative' staff there makes? I know it's a separate position from the 'Genius' staff.

puckhead193
Jun 20, 2012, 03:54 PM
do the employees also make bonus on selling applecare and other things besides the computer?

a1exey1azar
Jun 20, 2012, 03:54 PM
The dude on picture is pretty hot!

bedifferent
Jun 20, 2012, 03:55 PM
Thats because all the good Genii left Apple years ago because of terrible pay and the new Genii being terribly trained and not competent.

I can vouch for this, as I left around 2005/6 (and it wasn't my main job, even though I was full time at ~$60k/year, was during grad school).

The staff they have now versus then is a far cry from the days of glory.

(Just noticed your above comment, were you part-time? Full-time we were on annual salary and we worked behind the bar around the same time, and yes, we were sort of the shizz-nit back then, and we had a good time too, then it all changed)

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 20, 2012, 03:55 PM
Anyone have any idea what the 'Creative' staff there makes? I know it's a separate position from the 'Genius' staff.

10-12 an hour back in 2006 when I was a Genius. Genius pay was 12-25 and it was capped at 25.

I can vouch for this, as I left around 2005/6 (and it wasn't my main job, even though I was full time at ~$60k/year, was during grad school).

The staff they have now versus then is a far cry from the days of glory.

We were rock stars, then "Grow Your Own" started and everything went down hill from there. Instead of hiring good people off the streets any lousy Specialist that could smile became a Genius.

do the employees also make bonus on selling applecare and other things besides the computer?

No but metrics are VERY important to your review and your relationship with Management. As a Genius I was a top Applecare seller but got nothing out of it. Employees used to get yearly bonuses but they took away the bonuses and gave everyone a raise (this happened in 2007 IIRC.) I ended up getting a 2 dollar raise out of it.

iEdd
Jun 20, 2012, 03:55 PM
Ah, no wonder people are saying America has no middle class anymore, and the gap between poor and rich is too wide. :(

I'd ask if that $9/hour was just for the 14 year olds, but I'm scared what the answer would be. Here in Aus, as a college-aged student working this sort of retail job, you'd be making about $18-22 (AUD ~= USD) casual rate. Not sure what the Australian Apple stores pay, but it'd be on par with that.

McDonalds pays a 20 year old about $20/hour as well...

jamescobalt
Jun 20, 2012, 04:00 PM
I know a bunch of people who work at the Boston store, and my roomie went through the complete hiring process. Apple retail is nothing like regular retail, and the fact they pay regular retail wages was shocking to me.

You don't go through 4 or 5 rounds of interviews to work at JC Penny. You don't have to create a video for the GAP about why they should hire you. You don't have to demonstrate clear knowledge of popular technologies to work at Best Buy. You don't have to work overnight shifts at Pier 1.

Apple expects a LOT from their staff for what they pay them. This is long overdue.

darkplanets
Jun 20, 2012, 04:01 PM
Last time I went to the genius bar (for repairs) I had diagnosed the problem long before he figured out what was going on. There's really nothing genius about them -- Apple won't let them be smart. Instead they're more so the generic retail drones that go down an endless checklist of protocols and procedures. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, but I think most anyone could be a genius so long as they remember the protocol.

I certainly don't think they deserve $30/hr, that's for sure. If they were allowed to be more competent (or were more competent)? Certainly, yes.

----------

I know a bunch of people who work at the Boston store, and my roomie went through the complete hiring process. Apple retail is nothing like regular retail, and the fact they pay regular retail wages was shocking to me.

You don't go through 4 or 5 rounds of interviews to work at JC Penny. You don't have to create a video for the GAP about why they should hire you. You don't have to demonstrate clear knowledge of popular technologies to work at Best Buy. You don't have to work overnight shifts at Pier 1.

Apple expects a LOT from their staff for what they pay them. This is long overdue.

I don't know what retail you worked in, but from where I've been, retail pays nothing close to the aforementioned Apple wages.

blackburn
Jun 20, 2012, 04:01 PM
Dealing with people is a pain. Specially mad / stupid / smartass costumers. I do feel sorry for what the poor folks that work in retail need cope with.

I've sent my phone 5 times to warranty and being nice got me a new phone (1 time deal though). One should not have to return one phone this many times but neither I and neither the staff have anything to do with it.

bedifferent
Jun 20, 2012, 04:02 PM
Ah, no wonder people are saying America has no middle class anymore, and the gap between poor and rich is too wide. :(

I'd ask if that $9/hour was just for the 14 year olds, but I'm scared what the answer would be. Here in Aus, as a college-aged student working this sort of retail job, you'd be making about $18-22 (AUD ~= USD) casual rate. Not sure what the Australian Apple stores pay, but it'd be on par with that.

McDonalds pays a 20 year old about $20/hour as well...

That's a tough one, it depends on average quality of living and costs per household. In the states, we've seen expenses sky rocket in almost every segment; education (avg higher ed costs ~$300-400k not including living expenses), consumer goods, oil and gas while the average annual household income has barely moved. In fact, it's been so bad I know quite a few ex-Pat's living your way. You guy's have done well through the past ~12 years, someone mentioned this is due to your economy being highly intertwined with Asia (AUS supplies much of the natural resources used in the tech industry).

darkplanets
Jun 20, 2012, 04:05 PM
Here in Aus, as a college-aged student working this sort of retail job, you'd be making about $18-22 (AUD ~= USD) casual rate. Not sure what the Australian Apple stores pay, but it'd be on par with that.

McDonalds pays a 20 year old about $20/hour as well...

That's crazy! When I was an intern making/developing drugs I was making ~$35, not flipping burgers!

vampyr
Jun 20, 2012, 04:05 PM
Truthfully... Apple can EASILY afford to pay their employees more. I think it's great that they are giving everyone raises. It will only make more young people want to be a part of the Apple culture and will continue to put Apple in a good light.

Hopefully more companies will follow suit. I remember working at McDonald's as a teenager and I was given a raise of 5 cents more on my hourly wage of $5.25/hr. I quit soon after. Working in an Apple store is easy compared to working in the back grill of a McDonald's during lunch hour.

And $30/hr for a high level genius? That's pretty damn high for an hourly wage employee. That's salaried employee level there.

stainlessliquid
Jun 20, 2012, 04:06 PM
why go to college when you can just work at an Apple store and make more money?

vampyr
Jun 20, 2012, 04:06 PM
That's crazy! When I was an intern making/developing drugs I was making ~$35, not flipping burgers!

Just curious... how long ago was that? and what are you making now?

reden
Jun 20, 2012, 04:07 PM
Listen man, with these pay raises they should do some better training on their floor staff. I think sometimes they act like they're being nice, but they can come off as rude and condescending. I reached a point that when I need to buy something at an Apple Store, I walk through the door as quick as possible to reduce any interaction with these employees.

Generally, when they speak they are almost looking down on you as if you don't know anything, and they know everything. I always end up correcting them. Example: I asked if they would carry the new Retina MacBook Pros with 16GB of RAM since it's soldered. She said maybe, but you can always buy an 8GB MacBook Pro Retina and we can upgrade it later. I said, but the RAM is soldered, are you sure you're gonna upgrade that? She's like, oh you're right.

This constantly happens. I'm always happy to help my friends when they ask me to come with them to buy a new Mac, because they try to sell them on the AppleCare and other crap they don't need, and typical consumers will not know they have a year to purchase it on most Apple devices. They won't tell you that a lot of times. Very rare I've had an Apple floor staff member be original and nice.

Also, the whole you better be there 15min before your Genius appointment, and they make you wait 45min. If you come 5min late, they cancel you, and ask you to come back another time or sit and wait for 2 hours with a no-care attitude. I've had bad luck with a lot of Apple products over the years, so I got plenty of stories to tell, it's ridiculous.

Ryth
Jun 20, 2012, 04:09 PM
Truthfully... Apple can EASILY afford to pay their employees more. I think it's great that they are giving everyone raises. It will only make more young people want to be a part of the Apple culture and will continue to put Apple in a good light.

Hopefully more companies will follow suit. I remember working at McDonald's as a teenager and I was given a raise of 5 cents more on my hourly wage of $5.25/hr. I quit soon after. Working in an Apple store is easy compared to working in the back grill of a McDonald's during lunch hour.

And $30/hr for a high level genius? That's pretty damn high for an hourly wage employee. That's salaried employee level there.

If more companies follow suit, they'll go bankrupt...not every company is Apple. Most are barely getting by in this economy.

seven2k7
Jun 20, 2012, 04:11 PM
A Genius only gets $30 an hour? Not sure why they do that over a systems admin job that would pay a lot more.

You have to know MS. Also the raise is only 10%.

LastLine
Jun 20, 2012, 04:13 PM
Listen man, with these pay raises they should do some better training on their floor staff. I think sometimes they act like they're being nice, but they can come off as rude and condescending. I reached a point that when I need to buy something at an Apple Store, I walk through the door as quick as possible to reduce any interaction with these employees.

Generally, when they speak they are almost looking down on you as if you don't know anything, and they know everything. I always end up correcting them. Example: I asked if they would carry the new Retina MacBook Pros with 16GB of RAM since it's soldered. She said maybe, but you can always buy an 8GB MacBook Pro Retina and we can upgrade it later. I said, but the RAM is soldered, are you sure you're gonna upgrade that? She's like, oh you're right.

This constantly happens. I'm always happy to help my friends when they ask me to come with them to buy a new Mac, because they try to sell them on the AppleCare and other crap they don't need, and typical consumers will not know they have a year to purchase it on most Apple devices. They won't tell you that a lot of times. Very rare I've had an Apple floor staff member be original and nice.

Also, the whole you better be there 15min before your Genius appointment, and they make you wait 45min. If you come 5min late, they cancel you, and ask you to come back another time or sit and wait for 2 hours with a no-care attitude. I've had bad luck with a lot of Apple products over the years, so I got plenty of stories to tell, it's ridiculous.
I'd agree - I find Apple Store staff very helpful, but lacking in knowledge, I prefer smaller Premium Resellers instead, they tend to be much more knowledgeable to be honest.

revm1m
Jun 20, 2012, 04:13 PM
I hope that employee (see link below) doesn't get any raise and be fired.





http://9to5mac.com/2012/06/19/apple-store-employees-getting-a-little-overzealous-with-iranian-export-restrictions-borders-on-racial-profiling-video/

skywalkerr69
Jun 20, 2012, 04:14 PM
Wow if you do the math geniuses could get paid more than $60k a year.

tombelton
Jun 20, 2012, 04:14 PM
Haha!, love the way the article says that 'all Apple retail store staff' will be getting rises and then goes on to say 'across the U.S.'. Don't you just love Americans? :rolleyes:

AustinIllini
Jun 20, 2012, 04:16 PM
Ah, no wonder people are saying America has no middle class anymore, and the gap between poor and rich is too wide. :(

I'd ask if that $9/hour was just for the 14 year olds, but I'm scared what the answer would be. Here in Aus, as a college-aged student working this sort of retail job, you'd be making about $18-22 (AUD ~= USD) casual rate. Not sure what the Australian Apple stores pay, but it'd be on par with that.

McDonalds pays a 20 year old about $20/hour as well...

Australia's problems are way different than the US. There are states bigger than Australia.

charlituna
Jun 20, 2012, 04:17 PM
Something to me smells of ********. 25 cents perhaps, maybe even on top of whatever merit raise they might have earned. But 25% just cause. I doubt it

Caliber26
Jun 20, 2012, 04:19 PM
The dude on picture is pretty hot!

Indeed. ;)

whitingrj
Jun 20, 2012, 04:20 PM
Good on Apple turning a relatively small pay into something somewhat reasonable.

Navdakilla
Jun 20, 2012, 04:23 PM
Kudos to Tim Cook and Co. for stepping up. Retail employees have to deal with some pretty extreme customers on a daily basis. Nice to see them financially rewarded.

Took the words right out of my mouth
Apple store has amazing customer service, they are much appreciated

OldSchoolMacGuy
Jun 20, 2012, 04:23 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that unless you're a manager or a Genius, you aren't full time so you don't get insurance.

Turned down $20/hr as a Genius about 5 years ago because the hours suck. 6 days on, 4 off, 3 on, 2 off. Stuff like that where it's constantly switching. Plus they move you between morning, mid, and night shifts. No thanks.

JHankwitz
Jun 20, 2012, 04:27 PM
Sadly this is true. The only thing any of the geniuses have ever done for me is swap out my broken iPhones.

Isn't it great to be able to own products that require so little repair?

Dr McKay
Jun 20, 2012, 04:28 PM
Well deserved. Apple stores are ALWAYS busy. I sometimes feel sorry that they have to put up with people's BS and busy traffic ALL day.

My bud is a genius. He better be treating me to a drink this weekend. Lol.

It's reasons like this I will attempt to avoid all jobs that deal with the public like the plague.

CalmEnvy
Jun 20, 2012, 04:28 PM
25% is pretty crazy. I could understand something like 10% since that seems reasonable. I know that in Ontario, Canada minimum wage is $10.25 so Apple employees easily make over that.

It's reasons like this I will attempt to avoid all jobs that deal with the public like the plague.

That's why I left Cineplex (movie theatre company in Canada) that was paying me as a Supervisor $10.50 an hour to a job within Canadian Tire at there warehouse through an agency making $14 an hour guaranteed 40 hours a week, much better lol.

GQB
Jun 20, 2012, 04:30 PM
Given that Apple has made such a shift to dumbing down its products, removing Pro features and leaving Pro machines to stagnate, do they really need the "Genius Bar" any more?

They could just stick a poster up showing how to do a hard reset on your iPad, if it doesn't work, put it into this big box and get a new one.

Why is it that accusations of 'dumbing down' seem to come from those with an exaggerated sense of their own brilliance?
Let me guess.. you keep a copy of Atlas Shrugged next to your nightstand.
You do realize that car aficionados would accuse you of being dumb because you probably don't work on your own car, right?
Computers are maturing into appliances that let you get actual things done.
Hint: putzing around with computer innards isn't productive work.

IzzyJG99
Jun 20, 2012, 04:30 PM
Ah, no wonder people are saying America has no middle class anymore, and the gap between poor and rich is too wide. :(

I'd ask if that $9/hour was just for the 14 year olds, but I'm scared what the answer would be. Here in Aus, as a college-aged student working this sort of retail job, you'd be making about $18-22 (AUD ~= USD) casual rate. Not sure what the Australian Apple stores pay, but it'd be on par with that.

McDonalds pays a 20 year old about $20/hour as well...

You just asked a question that all 50 states in America constantly are discussing in their respective state legislatures.

Still 9 an hour is nice for an American employee. But retail still sucks.

URFloorMatt
Jun 20, 2012, 04:31 PM
Good to see competition raising wages. Here's hoping the Surface will bring competition to the iPad and Air, and keep the quality of new devices high.

Silver Box
Jun 20, 2012, 04:35 PM
As a long time Apple customer i cant tell you some of the unbeleivable behaviour ive seen the Geniuses and retail staff put up with from the public. With any facet of retail you get regular people obviously but when you think about it you get the cranks, the angry people, the people that smell, the people with dirty computers, the people that are looking to blame Apple for everything, the rude people, the people that say yes they backed up their data, photos and then get angry because they didnt.... or people that expect to be seen immediately, because theyre more important than anyone else! Imagine how important someones iPhone or Mac can be then imagine how important say... somebodys personal buisness data is, then add some of these people to those devices and handle that X times a day. Every day.

I wouldnt want their job and they absolutely deserve the money. Purely because every Genius ive ever seen actually gave a ****.

JHankwitz
Jun 20, 2012, 04:36 PM
It's not too bad. Hell, it was only 10 years ago I was making minimum wage at $5.15/hr.

Heck, 55 years ago I worked my way through college making $0.55 an hour, about the cost of 2 gallons of milk. But then, tuition at UW-M was only $108 per semester.

thekev
Jun 20, 2012, 04:36 PM
Ah, no wonder people are saying America has no middle class anymore, and the gap between poor and rich is too wide. :(

I'd ask if that $9/hour was just for the 14 year olds, but I'm scared what the answer would be. Here in Aus, as a college-aged student working this sort of retail job, you'd be making about $18-22 (AUD ~= USD) casual rate. Not sure what the Australian Apple stores pay, but it'd be on par with that.

McDonalds pays a 20 year old about $20/hour as well...

Australia's system is completely different, and almost no one in the US is even remotely familiar with it;).

x86isslow
Jun 20, 2012, 04:38 PM
Now that i've left apple, my NDA no longer applies. If they don't increase the salaries, there's going to be a walkout. Apple spends thousands of dollars per person on HR for hiring and for training. At my old store, a new hire sales person would get 3 weeks of training. That's a lot of money down the drain if they let a trained employee leave due to a lack of a decent salary and profit sharing.

==
For a 16 year old kid trying to sell Apple products part-time, that isn't that bad. I never made $9/hour until I got to college.

- need to be 18 to be hired
- most employees are not little kids living in their mommy and daddys houses, they've usually got little kids of their own, not to mention mortgages.

faroZ06
Jun 20, 2012, 04:41 PM
I'm considering working here when I'm able to. There's a store close to my house, and I'm experienced.

----------

Lay them off.
Slash their wages.
Charge less than $4,000 for laptop.

Step 3 is already accomplished.

----------

- need to be 18 to be hired
- most employees are not little kids living in their mommy and daddys houses, they've usually got little kids of their own, not to mention mortgages.

Is the 18 years of age thing a real requirement? I'm <18 years of age, and I'm probably better qualified than a lot of the people there.

basesloaded190
Jun 20, 2012, 04:42 PM
- need to be 18 to be hired
- most employees are not little kids living in their mommy and daddys houses, they've usually got little kids of their own, not to mention mortgages.

Sorry I am not fluent in Apple's hiring policy. I just know I had a job when I was 15 and minimum wage was all I got, which was around $5.

greenmeanie
Jun 20, 2012, 04:44 PM
They are so stupid it should be a decrease.

emvath
Jun 20, 2012, 04:45 PM
The geniuses at my local store are worth exactly minimum wage. I had to teach one of them the home button reset procedure. After I did that they helped me with my real problem zero.

macchiato2009
Jun 20, 2012, 04:46 PM
i can't believe that an increase up to 25% would be possible at Apple Retail

last year, a friend of mine got a 1-digit increase

ghsNick
Jun 20, 2012, 04:47 PM
They actually deserve this.
It's a damn zoo in that store every time I go in!

jamescobalt
Jun 20, 2012, 04:48 PM
Australia's problems are way different than the US. There are states bigger than Australia.

Texas: 268,580 sq mi
Alaska: 663,267 sq mi
Australia: 2,970,000 sq mi

rgarjr
Jun 20, 2012, 04:54 PM
30 bucks/hr seems pretty good, considering some college grads with thousdands of dollars on school loans don't even make that much.



They actually deserve this.
It's a damn zoo in that store every time I go in!

Yep, that's the way it's always is at every store I go to.


Texas: 268,580 sq mi
Alaska: 663,267 sq mi
Australia: 2,970,000 sq mi

I think he might of meant population wise.

jamescobalt
Jun 20, 2012, 04:54 PM
Wow if you do the math geniuses could get paid more than $60k a year.

I think that's gotta be regional. In SFO and Boston, 60k is like 30 - 40k in rural places when you factor the cost of living.
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx

greenmeanie
Jun 20, 2012, 05:00 PM
Well there has to be a Middle Class because they TAX us hard!

Ah, no wonder people are saying America has no middle class anymore, and the gap between poor and rich is too wide. :(

I'd ask if that $9/hour was just for the 14 year olds, but I'm scared what the answer would be. Here in Aus, as a college-aged student working this sort of retail job, you'd be making about $18-22 (AUD ~= USD) casual rate. Not sure what the Australian Apple stores pay, but it'd be on par with that.

McDonalds pays a 20 year old about $20/hour as well...

ngenerator
Jun 20, 2012, 05:00 PM
This isn't happening for retail employees. Just talked to a genius friend of mine and they were told raises are happening, but they top out at 10%.

Edit: I'm curious as to why I'm being downvoted. I literally just talked to a friend of mine who is a genius, and I'm telling you, this is fact. Raises are topping out at 10%. This is still good news, but I'm sorry it doesn't line up with the above rumors.

You're being downvoted because you're wrong

RalfTheDog
Jun 20, 2012, 05:04 PM
I saw one "lady" completely lose her mind at the Genius bar when she was returning her new iPhone. The Apple store employee wouldn't give her a refund for all the accessories she bought at an AT&T store because they were AT&T products. I even tried to reason with her. She just kept yelling until the manager finally just gave her the money. As she walked away he asked if any one wanted the cheap rubber case, no one spoke up and he threw it in the trash.

That is when you call security and have the [deleted] removed from the building. It also helps to put a picture of the [deleted] in the break room, with instructions that if this [deleted] little [deleted] ever comes back into the store, they are to be charged with trespassing and have their [deleted] thrown in jail.

Konrad9
Jun 20, 2012, 05:07 PM
I wonder how this compares to other retail and computer environments in the U.S.?

Pretty well, except I know Costco starts at $11. Or did when I worked there 3 years ago.

JAT
Jun 20, 2012, 05:07 PM
Ah, no wonder people are saying America has no middle class anymore, and the gap between poor and rich is too wide. :(

I understand the sentiment, but a retail worker is not really middle class. The "problem" with middle class is that if you make around the median wage, you can't hardly afford a decent house and car, and to feed your kids the same week. Now you need 2 incomes to do that. Both median wage.

Puevlo
Jun 20, 2012, 05:10 PM
Disgraceful. Working for the greatest company on Earth should be payment enough. Fancy going to work for Microsoft :mad:.

bedifferent
Jun 20, 2012, 05:10 PM
I understand the sentiment, but a retail worker is not really middle class. The "problem" with middle class is that if you make around the median wage, you can't hardly afford a decent house and car, and to feed your kids the same week. Now you need 2 incomes to do that. Both median wage.

If you're lucky. Most I know have master's degree's, are barely paying off the principal on their student loans, living in a small one bedroom apartment, and are working in what are considered "decent" fields. I recall as a child, most were raised in a nice home with a one parent income, never wanted for anything, had a great school system, and it seemed the world was exactly as our parents said, "we could be anything we wanted." Times have sadly changed.

superman23
Jun 20, 2012, 05:14 PM
Ah, no wonder people are saying America has no middle class anymore, and the gap between poor and rich is too wide. :(

I'd ask if that $9/hour was just for the 14 year olds, but I'm scared what the answer would be. Here in Aus, as a college-aged student working this sort of retail job, you'd be making about $18-22 (AUD ~= USD) casual rate. Not sure what the Australian Apple stores pay, but it'd be on par with that.

McDonalds pays a 20 year old about $20/hour as well...


meh..it's basic supply and demand. stores here have no problem finding workers for $7-10/hr. in fact the # of qualified applicants far exceeds the available positions.

spartig
Jun 20, 2012, 05:14 PM
Disgraceful. Working for the greatest company on Earth should be payment enough. Fancy going to work for Microsoft :mad:.

Really?! I hope you're joking. You can work for free if you want. Me, I like to eat!

Ajones330
Jun 20, 2012, 05:18 PM
I think its great that a company is investing in their workforce. Retail is really a hectic gig. Different personalities and with the kind of traffic Apple gets I can only imagine the loons that come through.:apple:

rgarjr
Jun 20, 2012, 05:20 PM
meh..it's basic supply and demand. stores here have no problem finding workers for $7-10/hr. in fact the # of qualified applicants far exceeds the available positions.

That is true unfortunately and is exactly what is happening in this country now, why pay them $15+/hr when some are willing to work for less.

Boiler
Jun 20, 2012, 05:20 PM
99% of Americans suck at geography
Texas: 268,580 sq mi
Alaska: 663,267 sq mi
Australia: 2,970,000 sq mi

He may have meant economically:

GDP as a percentage of Australia GDP measured in USD

United States......1586%
California............210%
Texas .................131%
New York............125%
Florida................82%
Illinois................70%
Pennsylvania........62%
New Jersey..........54%
Ohio....................52%
Virginia................46%

RalfTheDog
Jun 20, 2012, 05:22 PM
Really?! I hope you're joking. You can work for free if you want. Me, I like to eat!

That's why Americans are all getting so fat. Too many people think they are too good to live in a cardboard box and eat out of a dumpster. The pride in being a good slave should be payment enough.

Remember, every paycheck you get takes money away from a poor underprivileged, overworked executive.

ericinboston
Jun 20, 2012, 05:41 PM
First, $9+ an hour, in Retail, is great. Especially a (physically) small store like Apple compared to say Sears or Best Buy...and especially to a store with so few products...and a store like Apple that doesn't have you stocking shelves a few times a day.

If you don't want to work at Apple, yet still want the Retail job life, go find yourself a better gig. Seriously. If you want to work as an "hourly" employee, regardless of age, $8-$12 is the average in the USA depending on the employer, the location, and the job duties. Yes, even many store "managers" in Retail are hourly but may come with other perks. Hourly employees also very likely have a different "schedule" every week or so...so that may be a constant annoyance, too.

If you don't want to work as an hourly employee, then go find yourself a "salary" job. Depending on a ton of factors, your take-home pay can be in a very large range such as $25k to $195k a year depending on your experience and field. But make no mistake, an extremely high percentage of salary jobs are 40+ hours a week in the USA...usually 50+ when you sit down and count your time doing work. You can extract the hourly rate from a salary job if you want (say you make $50k a year salary...and 40 hours a week...that would be 52 weeks X 40 hours = 2080 hours a year. Divide 50k by 2080 and you'd be making $24/hour. But then you have to figure in all the other pros/cons that come with a salary job such as health benefits, more taxes, 401k/savings plans, likely longer/worse commutes, better chance of earning more money/promotion than a retail job where you're a floor attendant forever, etc.)...but extracting the hourly from a salary job is a headache and filled with pitfalls in regards to true accuracy.

So if you like retail, $9-$12 is what you're going to earn...for a very long time. If you don't like that pay range, go do something different. It's been well-known for decades, if not half a century, that the very, very high percentage of Retail jobs simply don't pay well.

marksman
Jun 20, 2012, 05:45 PM
Managing/owning/operating retail stores it has always been my philosophy to pay more than the other guys. It reduces churn, allows you to keep better people and expect / demand more out of your workers.

If they can just go down the street and get another job for the same wage, motivation to excel can be dampened in some.

scionfriar
Jun 20, 2012, 05:46 PM
Because good paying jobs are so easy to find these days?

Rocketman
Jun 20, 2012, 06:09 PM
Raises of "up to 25%". It's like those inventory clearance sales where prices are reduced on "some items" by 50% if you can find them at all, but the only inventory clearance going on is the regular items at regular price once you get there.

With labor rates in a difficult economy "retention bonuses" are a great idea to keep meritorious employees on a selective basis. I do give Apple credit for recognizing this earlier than most and being relatively loyal to employees. Yes Apple can also be a hard-ass in many ways and those folks subject to it are not allowed to talk about it. So this is a PR move to be sure.

But the simple fact it is a subject of discussion is a good thing. I would not hold my breath if I were an Apple employee that I was going to get any sort of windfall. More likely it will be a single ratchet up, more than usual, portending a long, long, wait till the next one. Probably right before the next Presidential election.

If I were an Apple employee I would rather have a 1-2% commission.

Rocketman

marksman
Jun 20, 2012, 06:10 PM
Geniuses, in my experience, are an exceptional group. They do far more than just 'swap out your broken phone.' You may have been an excellent customer and not given them any grief, but I can tell you this is not the norm. An extraordinary amount of people come in with very aggressive attitudes and take it unjustly out on a Genius (e.g. iPhone dropped in water....angry this isn't covered under warranty).

Apple Retail employees, for all intents and purposes, are the face of Apple. Specialists for when a customer comes in to purchase a product, Geniuses when they have problems, Creatives when they come for training.

I think it's safe to say Apple Retail are there because they want to be and are proud to be employees of Apple.

Yeah I have had nothing but superior experiences with apple staff, especially the genius bar. They are what makes AppleCare the most valuable warranty relative to any product line in existence.

I have a lot of retail experience in my past and certainly know how it works. You end up getting some sort of reflection of how you behave. If you act rudely and aggressively you will NEVER get someone's best effort. This is why you find some people find life such a struggle while others have many fewer problems.

CorvetteZR1
Jun 20, 2012, 06:12 PM
It's not too bad. Hell, it was only 10 years ago I was making minimum wage at $5.15/hr.

Um, how much did gas, housing, day care, insurance, and medical cost 10 years ago? A lot less than they do now.

brdeveloper
Jun 20, 2012, 06:12 PM
He may have meant economically:

GDP as a percentage of Australia GDP measured in USD

United States......1586%
California............210%
Texas.................131%
New York............125%
Florida................82%
Illinois................70%
Pennsylvania........62%
New Jersey..........54%
Ohio....................52%
Virginia................46%

What about per-capita GDP?

jamescobalt
Jun 20, 2012, 06:22 PM
What about per-capita GDP?


Australia: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-per-capita
US: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita

AustinIllini
Jun 20, 2012, 06:22 PM
Texas: 268,580 sq mi
Alaska: 663,267 sq mi
Australia: 2,970,000 sq mi


California: 37,253,956
Texas: 25,145,561
Australia: 22,328,800

All I was trying to say is it's really hard to measure countries that are so different.

Boiler
Jun 20, 2012, 06:22 PM
What about per-capita GDP?

2011 Aus GDP per capita is $65,000

only Washington DC, Delaware, Alaska, Connecticut, and Wyoming are at or above that.

But in the US the population is probably better collected in many cities for sales

Glassed Silver
Jun 20, 2012, 06:26 PM
I think it's safe to say that these guys really deserve the raise.
They work in the busiest stores - even more importantly tech stores (we know what that sometimes implies).
They REALLY put customers first and often take a verbal beating for the most horrible PEBKACs.
They make me happy any time someone chats me up - not gay.

The list goes on and on.
Any Apple Store I've been to so far (US, UK, IT) has had friendly employees and the best shopping atmosphere I've ever witnessed.

Go Apple retail employees - you rock and help Apple grow so much! :apple:

Glassed Silver:mac

brdeveloper
Jun 20, 2012, 06:27 PM
Um, how much did gas, housing, day care, insurance, and medical cost 10 years ago? A lot less than they do now.

The truth is, we (from the mid class that buy iStuff) could consume less if we wanted. Actually we prefer eating a lot of fatty junk food while having the latest Apple gadget, than eating organic, non-processed food and mantaining a not-so-old computer or car for a few years until they'll get really obsolete/broken.

scionfriar
Jun 20, 2012, 06:30 PM
I would never dream of telling someone that worked a job I'd never had that they didn't deserve a raise.

brdeveloper
Jun 20, 2012, 06:30 PM
Australia: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-per-capita
US: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita

50% higher in USA than AUS. This gives a bit more realistic information about living conditions...

Rocketman
Jun 20, 2012, 06:33 PM
California: 37,253,956
Texas: 25,145,561
Australia: 22,328,800

All I was trying to say is it's really hard to measure countries that are so different.I wonder when the GDP per capita folks are going to whip out the spreadsheets and calculate $/sf and $/person/industrialized sf. Let's go third order!

CorvetteZR1
Jun 20, 2012, 06:33 PM
The truth is, we (from the mid class that buy iStuff) could consume less if we wanted. Actually we prefer eating a lot of fatty junk food while having the latest Apple gadget, than eating organic, non-processed food and mantaining a not-so-old computer or car for a few years until they'll get really obsolete/broken.

FAIL. Your response has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

CmonSon
Jun 20, 2012, 06:35 PM
Disgraceful. Working for the greatest company on Earth should be payment enough. Fancy going to work for Microsoft :mad:.

Yea, Tell Sallie Mae "Hey I work for Apple stop calling my phone."

Dr McKay
Jun 20, 2012, 06:36 PM
That's why I left Cineplex (movie theatre company in Canada) that was paying me as a Supervisor $10.50 an hour to a job within Canadian Tire at there warehouse through an agency making $14 an hour guaranteed 40 hours a week, much better lol.

I used to work a checkout at a Supermarket, fed up with Customers complaining at bitching at me about Price increases like it was me who personally raised them, people using me as an emotional punchbag, once I was at the Cigarette counter and a man punched me in the face and ran when I asked him for ID.


Disgraceful. Working for the greatest company on Earth should be payment enough. Fancy going to work for Microsoft :mad:.

Really? I don't even know what to say as a response. It's disgraceful that Apple chose to give their retail employees extra money? I don't care what company I work for, money is money. Noone in that position working the floor is going to turn down extra money. Having worked with the public before I'd bet it still doesnt feel like enough money :D.

As for working for Microsoft? Some interns there are making $6,000 a month. Microsoft attracting more interns as company becomes "Cool" again. (http://www.neowin.net/news/microsoft-attracting-more-interns-as-the-company-becomes-cool-again)

richman555
Jun 20, 2012, 06:38 PM
This is really good news for many reasons. Apple must realize that their retail employees are important to their success. I am sure there is a competitive advantage with the best people in retail (customer service skills, evangelizing the product, reliability, etc). Its good to see that these things still mean something and do have a value. Now only if the rest of retail can follow this lead. :)

hamkor04
Jun 20, 2012, 06:40 PM
Sadly this is true. The only thing any of the geniuses have ever done for me is swap out my broken iPhones.

"Sadly" they have to make ready(this means they actually repair them) iPhones for customers like yourself, to give better experience. Comparing Nokia or others, you have to send your phone off and wait up to 14 days, is this you expect

CmonSon
Jun 20, 2012, 06:47 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that unless you're a manager or a Genius, you aren't full time so you don't get insurance.

Turned down $20/hr as a Genius about 5 years ago because the hours suck. 6 days on, 4 off, 3 on, 2 off. Stuff like that where it's constantly switching. Plus they move you between morning, mid, and night shifts. No thanks.

Not sure how it was when you were working at apple, but they offer full time positions across the store... Creatives, Experts, Full time Specialists...

On the other hand, Genius hours do suck, But when do you expect repairs to be done. They can't repair computer during the day, because the demand for appointments is just too high.

alhedges
Jun 20, 2012, 06:59 PM
I think that's gotta be regional. In SFO and Boston, 60k is like 30 - 40k in rural places when you factor the cost of living.
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx

This!

You really can't generalize about salaries in the US because the cost of living varies so much. Where I live, you can rent a decent 2 bedroom apartment in a good area for $600/month. In other places, you'd have to pay double or triple for the same space.

$60k is above the median salary and is just enough to buy a house (although you may be house poor...).

avanpelt
Jun 20, 2012, 07:04 PM
Kudos to Apple for this!

Apple Retail Store folks I've dealt with have been extremely pleasant and helpful, with only a few exceptions. Hopefully, a pay increase for these positions will help to encourage more hard working, professional folks to join the ranks in the years to come.

Xtremehkr
Jun 20, 2012, 07:06 PM
I support Apple in this move, I think it's a good idea all around. Apple has a mountain of cash stockpiled and consumers are hurting for income right now.

Henry Ford decided to pay his employees $5 a day because that money would be used to buy his products. His employees would purchase other things as well, but it definitely helped Henry Ford build a car company.

Every time I've been to an Apple store I've been treated extremely well. The retail employees are unfailingly polite and always incredibly busy. Apple holds the current record for sales per square foot, that doesn't happen based on product alone.

This is good for Apple's employees and good for the economy, Tim Cook is making some bold but positive changes.

Defactomonkey
Jun 20, 2012, 07:12 PM
do the employees also make bonus on selling applecare and other things besides the computer?

They don't get a direct monetary bonus per sale, but they are tracked and expected to make a quota. Maintaining and exceeding that quota is factored in for performance based pay increases.

darkplanets
Jun 20, 2012, 07:15 PM
Just curious... how long ago was that? and what are you making now?

Not too long ago (relative, of course). I'm actually making less now :D

shortcrust
Jun 20, 2012, 07:22 PM
Australia: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/australia/gdp-per-capita
US: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-per-capita

50% higher in USA than AUS. This gives a bit more realistic information about living conditions...

These figures are waaaaay out. Nominal GDP per capita is higher in Australia. PPP is lower in Australia but not by much.

vartanarsen
Jun 20, 2012, 07:26 PM
Dang....i went to law shool, and im only making $27........

saint.duo
Jun 20, 2012, 07:33 PM
Some do. I know some who made (as of 2 years ago) $19/hr.

A Genius only gets $30 an hour? Not sure why they do that over a systems admin job that would pay a lot more.

shortcrust
Jun 20, 2012, 07:36 PM
This link shows the average hourly rate for US Apple Geniuses at $18. That strikes me as more realistic considering the average wage in the US is around $41,000 per annum.

http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Apple-Mac-Genius-Hourly-Pay-E1138_D_KO6,16.htm

iLilana
Jun 20, 2012, 07:37 PM
Finally a company that knows how to treat a retail employee.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 20, 2012, 07:44 PM
Mac Genius does not regularly if ever make 30 an hour. I interview tons of them and was one for 5 years. Like I said earlier more like $12-$20 an hour.

Finally a company that knows how to treat a retail employee.

Finally Apple starts paying its employees up to par you mean? I know Geek Squad members that make more than Genii.

pullfocus
Jun 20, 2012, 07:45 PM
Reminds me of foxconn. $9 p/h in America, shameful.
Reminds me of unnecessary hyperbole.

Frisco
Jun 20, 2012, 07:45 PM
Living the American Dream! I guess it beats Walmart. I am not impressed. Offer your employees health benefits and it's a different story.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 20, 2012, 07:48 PM
Full Time Employees get a great 401k and health plan at Apple. As well as ESPP.

MSUSpartan
Jun 20, 2012, 07:58 PM
Service at Apple Store is good enough as is, if an employee doesn't meet their standards they have people lining up to take his/her place. Let's be honest, the only things needed to work at an Apple Store is the ability to smile and have a lot of patience...

It's hard to tell exactly how much retail compensation expense is from the 10K, but if you add 25% to the SG&A expense it would have a huge impact on the bottom line. Good news for the little guys, bad news for the investors?

I.Love.Apple
Jun 20, 2012, 08:04 PM
Although Apple already pays nice wages for retail, paying more will certainly make its retail employees happier.

Was it a joke?

chrono1081
Jun 20, 2012, 08:06 PM
It would be better if they give proper training to individuals selling macbook pros.

I had a guy who can't distinguish the difference between a radeon 6490 and a 6550 other than its faster and talking about applications that rely sorely on CPU than the GPU. Ridiculous.


But i guess with the recent update, you don't need that much education now on what you are selling other than... "it has a retina display"

Yes but anyone with education isnt going to work retail sales.

frenchroast
Jun 20, 2012, 08:07 PM
They'll just spend it back on a Macbook pro anyways.

MacDav
Jun 20, 2012, 08:14 PM
Sadly $9 is actually pretty good for a starting wage in retail in America.

My first part time job as a teen was in 1966. I made $1.75 per hr. Since the value of the Dollar has fallen dramatically since then, kids today would have to
make about $12.00 or even more per hour to equal the buying power of that $1.75 in 1966. In 1970 I worked retail full-time and made $2.25 per hour. Equal
to about $15.00 per hr. in today's America. Americans need to quit playing sides. Right and Left are losing positions. The Center is a balance between the two sides and is where any forward progress comes from. Quit all the name calling and come together for the sake of a once great country.

unlinked
Jun 20, 2012, 08:16 PM
He may have meant economically:



He may have meant lots of things but what he said is ridiculously wrong.

WardC
Jun 20, 2012, 08:18 PM
Good!! Maybe I can finally get someone to help me at the Apple Store when I am ready to lay down $3000 for a computer, instead of walking out and turning to eBay instead. ****** service does not deserve my business.

ChrisNH
Jun 20, 2012, 08:28 PM
Apple Stores churn through people at a rapid rate. That's why they have so many 'hiring events,' which themselves cost money. They did the math and figured that if they pay people more, turnover will fall and the need to have hiring events will as well.

bigpoppamac31
Jun 20, 2012, 08:41 PM
Is this just for the USA stores or is it for all Apple stores worldwide? What about the Canadian stores?

JAT
Jun 20, 2012, 08:46 PM
Is the 18 years of age thing a real requirement? I'm <18 years of age, and I'm probably better qualified than a lot of the people there.
Better qualified to look at electronics or better qualified to deal with irate, moronic customers?

One of those is the job. One is not.

RalfTheDog
Jun 20, 2012, 08:47 PM
He may have meant lots of things but what he said is ridiculously wrong.

If he was talking about geographic size, he was wrong. If he was talking about ego size, he was not.

Ego as a percentage of Australia measured in big heads:

United States.......1773%
Texas ..........1000%
Rest of the South...400%
NYC......................303%
We who use Macs.....70%

WardC
Jun 20, 2012, 08:57 PM
If he was talking about geographic size, he was wrong. If he was talking about ego size, he was not.

Ego as a percentage of Australia measured in big heads:

United States.......1773%
Texas ..........1000%
Rest of the South...400%
NYC......................303%
We who use Macs.....70%

What if you are a Texan who uses a Mac, and owns over 20 of them?

bunkyoh1
Jun 20, 2012, 09:04 PM
Still, 10% is more than you get at Corporate America! :mad:

Hey, so what is 5% of $9?

There are no surprise raises in Apple's Retail. It's entirely yearly.

Now go pick out an apartment. Don't get shot.

twoodcc
Jun 20, 2012, 09:12 PM
good for them

revelated
Jun 20, 2012, 09:15 PM
This isn't happening for retail employees. Just talked to a genius friend of mine and they were told raises are happening, but they top out at 10%.

Edit: I'm curious as to why I'm being downvoted. I literally just talked to a friend of mine who is a genius, and I'm telling you, this is fact. Raises are topping out at 10%. This is still good news, but I'm sorry it doesn't line up with the above rumors.

Considering during Steve Jobs' reign raises were so far and few in between that people were putting up web sites about how bad it was, I would consider ANY raise to be a significant.

I graduated high school and my first job I was in an office making $8/hour. But honestly I never should have had that job. I've never worked retail and never worked part time. And back in those days it wasn't uncommon to see kids out of high school go straight into the military or work at fast food - neither of which I was inclined to do.

Geekbabe
Jun 20, 2012, 09:18 PM
I know a bunch of people who work at the Boston store, and my roomie went through the complete hiring process. Apple retail is nothing like regular retail, and the fact they pay regular retail wages was shocking to me.

You don't go through 4 or 5 rounds of interviews to work at JC Penny. You don't have to create a video for the GAP about why they should hire you. You don't have to demonstrate clear knowledge of popular technologies to work at Best Buy. You don't have to work overnight shifts at Pier 1.

Apple expects a LOT from their staff for what they pay them. This is long overdue.

I agree totally! I am a regular visitor to the Boston store & find their staff to be exceptional. These young people are professionals & should be paid a living wage.

kazuhide
Jun 20, 2012, 09:19 PM
sorry, I just can't handle all the misinformation on this thread.

1. any apple employee who works more than 3 months (part-time OR full-time) is eligible for full medical benefits
2. pay is based on the location and local standards of living/costs. apple store china workers make less than apple store ohio workers who make less than apple store NYC workers, who probably make the most, or perhaps apple store norway or UK.
3. apple store is retail, but it's like no other retail job you will ever have. It is possibly the best retail working experience in America. Retention is very high, and acceptance is around 6% of applicants. Hiring age starts at 18, but the median age is more like 30, with 60 year olds to 20 year olds and the full gamut of ethnic, social, and countercultural diversity being represented. First careers, second careers, and so forth. Nearly every employee I've ever met has been a college graduate.
4. anyone who disses or smears the entry level wage at Apple, ignoring the generous benefit and wage system, and incredible opportunities for growth within the company, must here forth say what job they actually do and what wage they actually make, otherwise you are just trolling and a hater.
5. people are also ignoring something important. Money is obviously not everything. Garbage men make an excellent living, much better than school teachers, apple employees, and many office workers. So why isn't everyone a garbage man? You are ignoring the proposition that Apple is a fantastic company to work for, and having a job that you wake up and enjoy going to in the morning is worth 5 jobs that pay better but drain your will to live.

jterp7
Jun 20, 2012, 09:25 PM
Mac Genius does not regularly if ever make 30 an hour. I interview tons of them and was one for 5 years. Like I said earlier more like $12-$20 an hour.



Finally Apple starts paying its employees up to par you mean? I know Geek Squad members that make more than Genii.

today I overheard a Geek Squad and reg. best buy employee explaining the ipad to customers with more knowledge about the product than just about all of the apple employees I've met in the DC area. For example: Apple employee, "no firewire doesn't power the hard drive it has to come from somewhere else"

LaWally
Jun 20, 2012, 09:28 PM
Australia's problems are way different than the US. There are states bigger than Australia.

Huh? The total area of Australia is 7,741,220 square kilometers, and the total area of the US is 9,629,630 square kilometers. No US state is larger than Australia. In fact the largest state, Alaska, is 1,717,854 square kilometers, only 1/7th the size of Australia.

eddieaus
Jun 20, 2012, 09:41 PM
i know american wages are low, never realise would be this low. one thing for sure, i wouldn't be buying any apple product if i only made $9 per hour.

AidenShaw
Jun 20, 2012, 10:01 PM
Huh? The total area of Australia is 7,741,220 square kilometers, and the total area of the US is 9,629,630 square kilometers. No US state is larger than Australia. In fact the largest state, Alaska, is 1,717,854 square kilometers, only 1/7th the size of Australia.

Ignore "AustinIllini" - from his handle I'd guess that he might be from Texas....

...and Texans are often an embarrassment to the rest of America.

mbell1975
Jun 20, 2012, 10:20 PM
my roomate's aunt makes $83/hr on the laptop. She has been without work for 8 months but last month her pay was $8682 just working on the laptop for a few hours. Read more on this site...N u tty R i c h d o t c o m

Awesome. I make roughly $200 an hour taking photos but sorry, no website to spam. On a serious note, it's great to see a company giving raises rather than laying people off.

bedifferent
Jun 20, 2012, 10:21 PM
My first part time job as a teen was in 1966. I made $1.75 per hr. Since the value of the Dollar has fallen dramatically since then, kids today would have to
make about $12.00 or even more per hour to equal the buying power of that $1.75 in 1966. In 1970 I worked retail full-time and made $2.25 per hour. Equal
to about $15.00 per hr. in today's America. Americans need to quit playing sides. Right and Left are losing positions. The Center is a balance between the two sides and is where any forward progress comes from. Quit all the name calling and come together for the sake of a once great country.

omg, thank you! This needs to be posted on every forum on every site everywhere, especially the last part re: left and right, name calling.

When we fight each other, were too busy picking one another apart when we should be working WITH each other. Divide, conquer. We've left it happen to us and now we're paying the price.

Bravo :)

iapplelove
Jun 20, 2012, 10:46 PM
25% increase is just insane! I was overwhelmed when my company gave me 8

charlituna
Jun 20, 2012, 11:10 PM
a 25% raise, when you look closer, still is well under what most people are capable of even at that young age

UP TO 25%. which is probably like that up to 10 hour battery life (that almost no one gets).

and I've heard that only the very first run of Geniuses and Creatives get anything close to even $20/hr much less $30. After that launch year on each program the wage dropped a lot.

jmitch720
Jun 20, 2012, 11:23 PM
sorry, I just can't handle all the misinformation on this thread.

1. any apple employee who works more than 3 months (part-time OR full-time) is eligible for full medical benefits
2. pay is based on the location and local standards of living/costs. apple store china workers make less than apple store ohio workers who make less than apple store NYC workers, who probably make the most, or perhaps apple store norway or UK.
3. apple store is retail, but it's like no other retail job you will ever have. It is possibly the best retail working experience in America. Retention is very high, and acceptance is around 6% of applicants. Hiring age starts at 18, but the median age is more like 30, with 60 year olds to 20 year olds and the full gamut of ethnic, social, and countercultural diversity being represented. First careers, second careers, and so forth. Nearly every employee I've ever met has been a college graduate.
4. anyone who disses or smears the entry level wage at Apple, ignoring the generous benefit and wage system, and incredible opportunities for growth within the company, must here forth say what job they actually do and what wage they actually make, otherwise you are just trolling and a hater.
5. people are also ignoring something important. Money is obviously not everything. Garbage men make an excellent living, much better than school teachers, apple employees, and many office workers. So why isn't everyone a garbage man? You are ignoring the proposition that Apple is a fantastic company to work for, and having a job that you wake up and enjoy going to in the morning is worth 5 jobs that pay better but drain your will to live.

Finally! someone who makes some sense. When I left Apple LAST YEAR, I was making about 30K a year as a Family Room Specialist (basically does some Genius and some Creative work but gets paid a lower wage). I left to join an IT company who needed a Mac guy and am now making 45K. I value what I learned at Apple, but retail is retail, and no one wants to be there forever.

jamesryanbell
Jun 20, 2012, 11:31 PM
sorry, I just can't handle all the misinformation on this thread.

1. any apple employee who works more than 3 months (part-time OR full-time) is eligible for full medical benefits
2. pay is based on the location and local standards of living/costs. apple store china workers make less than apple store ohio workers who make less than apple store NYC workers, who probably make the most, or perhaps apple store norway or UK.
3. apple store is retail, but it's like no other retail job you will ever have. It is possibly the best retail working experience in America. Retention is very high, and acceptance is around 6% of applicants. Hiring age starts at 18, but the median age is more like 30, with 60 year olds to 20 year olds and the full gamut of ethnic, social, and countercultural diversity being represented. First careers, second careers, and so forth. Nearly every employee I've ever met has been a college graduate.
4. anyone who disses or smears the entry level wage at Apple, ignoring the generous benefit and wage system, and incredible opportunities for growth within the company, must here forth say what job they actually do and what wage they actually make, otherwise you are just trolling and a hater.
5. people are also ignoring something important. Money is obviously not everything. Garbage men make an excellent living, much better than school teachers, apple employees, and many office workers. So why isn't everyone a garbage man? You are ignoring the proposition that Apple is a fantastic company to work for, and having a job that you wake up and enjoy going to in the morning is worth 5 jobs that pay better but drain your will to live.

Finally...some sense. Thank you.

Dionte
Jun 20, 2012, 11:47 PM
They should at least be making $12 an hour.

Kaibelf
Jun 21, 2012, 12:01 AM
Reminds me of foxconn. $9 p/h in America, shameful.

Grow up.

fitshaced
Jun 21, 2012, 12:08 AM
I hate Apple store staff. They're all over you as soon as you walk into the shop with a fake'i love working for Apple' face. Then, when you need advice on a product, they haven't got a clue. If I want a pay rise in my job, I atleast have to prove I'm good at what I do.

ScottishDuck
Jun 21, 2012, 12:12 AM
This act is socialism plain and simple.

Get these reds out of america.

fitshaced
Jun 21, 2012, 12:28 AM
This act is socialism plain and simple.

Get these reds out of america.

I'm guessing you believe you live in a capitalist America.

seamer
Jun 21, 2012, 12:31 AM
I thought Apple employees were paid more, simply to draw and retain the best retail people from across the industry. Knowing it's only $9 makes me wonder who knows more about my iDevices - me, or the guy behind the counter trying to tell me that a restart fixes all my crashes.

YouAreAllMorons
Jun 21, 2012, 01:10 AM
The geniuses at my local store are worth exactly minimum wage. I had to teach one of them the home button reset procedure. After I did that they helped me with my real problem zero.

You DO realize that the home button is an analog control, right? In other words, it either makes contact with the sensor below or it doesn't. No "reset" or "calibration" can fix a broken home button.

Your Genius just probably was too courteous to call you out.

JohnDoe98
Jun 21, 2012, 01:14 AM
omg, thank you! This needs to be posted on every forum on every site everywhere, especially the last part re: left and right, name calling.

When we fight each other, were too busy picking one another apart when we should be working WITH each other. Divide, conquer. We've left it happen to us and now we're paying the price.

Bravo :)

I thought competition = good and cooperation = bad though... Now I am confused.

MH01
Jun 21, 2012, 01:36 AM
They deserve it, I would want a hell of a lot more for the brainwashing they go through.

Xscapes
Jun 21, 2012, 01:41 AM
$30/hr for a genius? That's a lot. Do you need a bachelor degree for that?

Dominicanyor
Jun 21, 2012, 01:47 AM
Awesome.

Winni
Jun 21, 2012, 01:50 AM
Kudos to Apple for taking care of their people.

Actually, Apple pays the crappiest salaries in the industry. The company believes that working for them ought to be payment enough.

derrranged
Jun 21, 2012, 02:04 AM
I hope that employee (see link below) doesn't get any raise and be fired.



http://9to5mac.com/2012/06/19/apple-store-employees-getting-a-little-overzealous-with-iranian-export-restrictions-borders-on-racial-profiling-video/



Oh yes, fire the Specialist for not only doing her job, but also for complying with US FEDERAL LAW… AS SHE IS REQUIRED TO DO OR FACE TREASON CHARGES!!! Did you even read the article you linked to??

"A representative for the U.S. State Department clarified to Viteri that it is illegal to enter Iran with “laptops or satellite cellphones” without U.S. consent,"

Had you bothered to research the story further you would have learned that the woman speaking Farsi approached the specialist explaining that she was intending to buy the iPad specifically for someone else and that the other person lived in Iran, and that the iPad would be sent there. She was not profiled over the language that she spoke.

BTW, this story was sooooo misleadingly presented that the journalists should be absolutely embarrassed. I mean, this is the stuff of the National Enquirer… Shameful, belief in this crap.

Apple is in the business of selling merchandise. You don't teach your employees to NOT sell merchandise unless there is an UNBELIEVABLE need for it…. Like say, Oh, NOT COMMITTING TREASON!

I wish I could down vote you 50 times.

Now, apologize and retract your damaging statement.

----------

This act is socialism plain and simple.

Get these reds out of america.


So, you are going to dictate what the "reds in america" are allowed to believe? Do you even get how that statement makes YOU the most anti-American person in the room? No? Complete the High School government class that you still need to finish for your G.E.D.

Macman45
Jun 21, 2012, 02:08 AM
Good news for the staff, yes...But on a slightly more cynical note, Apple are not just being "Good Guys" here. They are over-capitalised and need to cool down a little...Giving the staff pay increases will help...Ask an accountant who does books for large companies...It helps them as much as it helps the retail staff.

eroslws
Jun 21, 2012, 02:08 AM
Oh yes, fire the Specialist for not only doing her job, but also for complying with US FEDERAL LAW… AS SHE IS REQUIRED TO DO OR FACE TREASON CHARGES!!! Did you even read the article you linked to??

"A representative for the U.S. State Department clarified to Viteri that it is illegal to enter Iran with “laptops or satellite cellphones” without U.S. consent,"

Had you bothered to research the story further you would have learned that the woman speaking Farsi approached the specialist explaining that she was intending to buy the iPad specifically for someone else and that the other person lived in Iran, and that the iPad would be sent there. She was not profiled over the language that she spoke.

BTW, this story was sooooo misleadingly presented that the journalists should be absolutely embarrassed. I mean, this is the stuff of the National Enquirer… Shameful, belief in this crap.

Apple is in the business of selling merchandise. You don't teach your employees to NOT sell merchandise unless there is an UNBELIEVABLE need for it…. Like say, Oh, NOT COMMITTING TREASON!

I wish I could down vote you 50 times.

Now, apologize and retract your damaging statement.

"We never talked about him going back to Iran or anything like that."
Where's the part that says they were sending it as a gift? Had the employee simply asked "Do you plan on taking this to Iran?" it would not be racial profiling. The fact is, the employee jumped to a conclusion and got trigger happy with rule enforcement. Unless the article got it wrong.

To those complaining about $9/hr:
Keep in mind, the reason that Apple's wages for retail employees appear low is simply because they are retail. Working for Apple is not the same as working for Apple Retail. You'd get better pay and benefits at Trader Joe's or Costco than you would at Apple Retail, but Apple Retail does tend to pay more than say Macy's or JCP.

Nimrad
Jun 21, 2012, 02:09 AM
Over here in Norway we make $22-23 right out of high school working for the local grocery store. Interesting comparison!

NT1440
Jun 21, 2012, 02:09 AM
<snip>

Yes she was trying to comply with US law but jeez buddy, look up the definition of treason!:eek:

derrranged
Jun 21, 2012, 02:13 AM
I hate Apple store staff. They're all over you as soon as you walk into the shop with a fake'i love working for Apple' face. Then, when you need advice on a product, they haven't got a clue. If I want a pay rise in my job, I atleast have to prove I'm good at what I do.


I wasn't aware that a person could make a face that imparted their love for the company that feeds and clothes them, by name, deceptively.

You know what, i'm sure the Apple store employees hate you to. Tell you what, buy online and save yourself the frustration….and save the personalized, polite, EXTREMELY (but unfortunately not ENCYCLOPEDIC-level) knowledgable, doing the absolute best they can on $9.00/hour, dancing for your foolish, sadistic, AND having to suffer you at the same time, treatment.

Seriously, with that attitude, just use a sheet of paper and do all your calculations with a chunk of charcoal.

eroslws
Jun 21, 2012, 02:15 AM
Over here in Norway we make $22-23 right out of high school working for the local grocery store. Interesting comparison!
That's because your country is the best place to live in according to the HDI. :P
To give you an idea of just how bad it is in the US, here's a map showing how many hours at minimum wage you would need to work in each state to afford an average apartment in that state.
http://cdn.billmoyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/map_minimumwage1.gif

derrranged
Jun 21, 2012, 02:22 AM
Took the words right out of my mouth
Apple store has amazing customer service, they are much appreciated

I'm sure any apple employee would very much appreciate you saying so. Very Much.

----------

Yes she was trying to comply with US law but jeez buddy, look up the definition of treason!:eek:

How about this one:

Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavor.


These computing products are banned by US embargo and are classified as munitions, like nuclear secrets or instructions on how to grow the most deadly anthrax.

You're making yourself look sillier-er-er-er-er-er-er. Just admit you were wrong and apologize.

----------

That's because your country is the best place to live in according to the HDI. :P
To give you an idea of just how bad it is in the US, here's a map showing how many hours at minimum wage you would need to work in each state to afford an average apartment in that state.
http://cdn.billmoyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/map_minimumwage1.gif

Thanks for that link. It makes me even sadder, but really does shed some light. 77 hours per week just to pay my rent, and nothing else.

fitshaced
Jun 21, 2012, 02:25 AM
I wasn't aware that a person could make a face that imparted their love for the company that feeds and clothes them, by name, deceptively.

You know what, i'm sure the Apple store employees hate you to. Tell you what, buy online and save yourself the frustration….and save the personalized, polite, EXTREMELY (but unfortunately not ENCYCLOPEDIC-level) knowledgable, doing the absolute best they can on $9.00/hour, dancing for your moronic, sadistic, AND having to smell you at the same time, treatment.

Seriously, with that attitude, just use a sheet of paper and do all your calculations with a chunk of charcoal.

See what you did there? I gave a generalization of some apple staff who I've seen in person give me a very fake 'hello' and not be very helpful on my questions. You respond to me by giving a very wild description of what you think I'm like as a person based on a short paragraph I wrote.

Wow.

eroslws
Jun 21, 2012, 02:29 AM
I'm sure any apple employee would very much appreciate you saying so. Very Much.[COLOR="#808080"]

How about this one:

Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavor.


These computing products are banned by US embargo and are classified as munitions, like nuclear secrets or instructions on how to grow the most deadly anthrax.

You're making yourself look stupider-er-er-er-er-er-er. Just admit you were wrong and apologize.[COLOR="#808080"]



The law doesn't always operate on definitions found in the dictionary. It's based on a complicated number of things not limited to politics, precedents, etc. Simply put, the government isn't going to pursue a retail employee because they accidentally sold an iPhone to someone sending it to Iran. The first time someone was charged with federal treason in the 21st century was in 2006 for aiding al-Qaeda, and before that, there wasn't a treason charge since the McCarthy era.

derrranged
Jun 21, 2012, 02:36 AM
Yes but anyone with education isnt going to work retail sales.

Also, "Anyone with an education knows better than to make sweeping, absolute, generalized statements."

I have a Master's degree. I'm currently stuck in retail. Hopefully not forever, but it is the reality right now. Please retract.

Steve121178
Jun 21, 2012, 02:38 AM
I know a bunch of people who work at the Boston store, and my roomie went through the complete hiring process. Apple retail is nothing like regular retail, and the fact they pay regular retail wages was shocking to me.

You don't go through 4 or 5 rounds of interviews to work at JC Penny. You don't have to create a video for the GAP about why they should hire you. You don't have to demonstrate clear knowledge of popular technologies to work at Best Buy. You don't have to work overnight shifts at Pier 1.


Yes, but there's a bunch of HR/recruitment people who have to justify their salary & positions which is why they make people jump through hoops to get hired. Retail is a crap job, it's not prestigious at all, even at Apple. Retail is retail. I find it absurd that people have to make videos etc.

As for the term 'Genius', it makes my toes curl up every time I hear it. It's so damn cheesy!

eroslws
Jun 21, 2012, 02:44 AM
Yes, but there's a bunch of HR/recruitment people who have to justify their salary & positions which is why they make people jump through hoops to get hired. Retail is a crap job, it's not prestigious at all, even at Apple. Retail is retail. I find it absurd that people have to make videos etc.

As for the term 'Genius', it makes my toes curl up every time I hear it. It's so damn cheesy!

Only problem I have with Apple employees is that they act like they work at some prestigious position. Like you said, retail is retail. Some of them will never see this though. Glad my tenure there is done, it was quite the experience.

sonarghost
Jun 21, 2012, 02:55 AM
Let me introduce you to something called inflation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation).

It seems like most people that make a rebuttal to this post are in fact making statements that are supporting what you are trying to say.

Icy1007
Jun 21, 2012, 03:19 AM
They deserve the pay raise. A retail job is as sh`tty as cleaning toilets for a living. Both jobs deal with crap and scum.

I don't know about that. I'd choose to be a retail employee over scrubbing toilets any day.

Silver Box
Jun 21, 2012, 03:21 AM
See what you did there? I gave a generalization of some apple staff who I've seen in person give me a very fake 'hello' and not be very helpful on my questions. You respond to me by giving a very wild description of what you think I'm like as a person based on a short paragraph I wrote.

Wow.

Firstly, you made an incredibly negative generalisation about staff that work their tails off. There are plenty of Apple employees and im pretty sure a high % of them are not as you describe.

Did it ever occur to you that when you assume people have an "i love apple face" it may be because they're doing their job or just being positive? Describe what that face looks like please?

Then you have the audacity to "wow" when someone else calls you out. Dear God, did you expect everyone to think youre a nice and decent person? When do we get an oppurtunity to see you be good at what you do?

You're proof they deserve the raise.

fitshaced
Jun 21, 2012, 04:01 AM
Firstly, you made an incredibly negative generalisation about staff that work their tails off. There are plenty of Apple employees and im pretty sure a high % of them are not as you describe.

Did it ever occur to you that when you assume people have an "i love apple face" it may be because they're doing their job or just being positive? Describe what that face looks like please?

Then you have the audacity to "wow" when someone else calls you out. Dear God, did you expect everyone to think youre a nice and decent person? When do we get an oppurtunity to see you be good at what you do?

You're proof they deserve the raise.

I'm amazed at you missing the point there. I stated I made a generalization. I think you're smart enough to work out for yourself that I haven't met every single apple employee and what I said was base on my experience. Or are you sergeant PC brigade? I 'wowed' because you responded to my comment with the exact same type of response you accused me of. Yet, had even less proof to base it on.

Fake smile, it looks like what I'm doing now. You seem to like to make assumptions so work out for yourself what this looks like.

calderone
Jun 21, 2012, 04:23 AM
A Genius only gets $30 an hour? Not sure why they do that over a systems admin job that would pay a lot more.

Most of them don't have the skill.

Mr Bigs
Jun 21, 2012, 04:33 AM
I saw one "lady" completely lose her mind at the Genius bar when she was returning her new iPhone. The Apple store employee wouldn't give her a refund for all the accessories she bought at an AT&T store because they were AT&T products. I even tried to reason with her. She just kept yelling until the manager finally just gave her the money. As she walked away he asked if any one wanted the cheap rubber case, no one spoke up and he threw it in the trash.That manager was weak because she should have gotten arrested.

derrranged
Jun 21, 2012, 04:35 AM
See what you did there? I gave a generalization of some apple staff who I've seen in person give me a very fake 'hello' and not be very helpful on my questions. You respond to me by giving a very wild description of what you think I'm like as a person based on a short paragraph I wrote.

Wow.

I'm amazed that you think I missed the point, to the extent that it amazes you.
So,

No, I responded to your direct statements "I hate Apple store staff". and "with a fake'i love working for Apple' face." and "when you need advice on a product, they haven't got a clue".. No mention of greeting at all let along the specific "hello". and you interpret a standard greeting as deception and btw "haven't got a clue" is a far far cry from "not very helpful."

So, you see what *I* did there.. YOU generalized a few isolated experiences and applied them to all Apple Store staff everywhere, which is a ridiculous thing to do. I illustrated that point by doing the very same thing with limited experience of you to all aspects of your personality and wildly exaggerated them so that you can see just how ridiculous and inappropriate those behaviors are. Since you are attempting to call me out on it, you prove the point that the behavior is inappropriate. This is called holding up a mirror.

I'm glad you learned something.

You still owe all the apple store employees with whom you have not directly interacted, an apology.

Robinator
Jun 21, 2012, 04:36 AM
Man I didn't relies Americans had it so tough. I feel really bad for those workers, I can't imagine living on that sought of money in Australia and I presume America has a similar cost of living. The minimum wage in Australia is about $16 an hour and I thought that was pretty bad. Apple should give you guys a big pay rise you helped get them where they are and you deserve it. What is the minimum wage in America and do you get tips at the Apple store ? Most Americans I've met give tips for everything.

derrranged
Jun 21, 2012, 04:42 AM
The law doesn't always operate on definitions found in the dictionary. It's based on a complicated number of things not limited to politics, precedents, etc. Simply put, the government isn't going to pursue a retail employee because they accidentally sold an iPhone to someone sending it to Iran. The first time someone was charged with federal treason in the 21st century was in 2006 for aiding al-Qaeda, and before that, there wasn't a treason charge since the McCarthy era.

THis may very well be true. I am not a legal professional. However, this position is unchanged, and definition was called into question. This definition represents the spirit if not the actual effect of the law as I understand it and as, large fruit theme electronics manufacturers could possibly explain it to their employees.

You had better believe however that if an iPad or macbook were discovered in an Al-Queda camp that was raided, and found to have ANY information on it that might possibly even hint at supporting some sort of attack that the government would throw the book at apple, who would be forced to reveal the individual who broke that law.

finnns2000
Jun 21, 2012, 05:10 AM
About time. Making $10.50 to work that job was disgraceful, especially in upper scale Bethesda. Too bad this didn't happen 5 years ago.

By the way, that girl in the middle is a babe.

derrranged
Jun 21, 2012, 05:20 AM
firstly, you made an incredibly negative generalisation about staff that work their tails off. There are plenty of apple employees and im pretty sure a high % of them are not as you describe.

Did it ever occur to you that when you assume people have an "i love apple face" it may be because they're doing their job or just being positive? Describe what that face looks like please?

Then you have the audacity to "wow" when someone else calls you out. Dear god, did you expect everyone to think youre a nice and decent person? When do we get an oppurtunity to see you be good at what you do?

You're proof they deserve the raise.


well said!

gnasher729
Jun 21, 2012, 05:54 AM
The report notes that sales staff at Apple retail stores are currently paid between $9 and $15 per hour before the forthcoming raises are factored in, ...

Just saying: Cost of living is very different depending on where you live. I'd assume that the salary for doing the same job would likewise depend on your location.

----------

Did it ever occur to you that when you assume people have an "i love apple face" it may be because they're doing their job or just being positive? Describe what that face looks like please?

You were responding to someone who picked "fitshaced" as their username. :D

chrono1081
Jun 21, 2012, 06:02 AM
Also, "Anyone with an education knows better than to make sweeping, absolute, generalized statements."

I have a Master's degree. I'm currently stuck in retail. Hopefully not forever, but it is the reality right now. Please retract.

I don't mean that as a slam. What I mean is customers expect too much. When I sold computers and such and often got asked what my degree was in and a few customers would get mad that I was selling them a computer but I didn't have a computer science degree. Most people with a degree aren't going to be working a barely above minimum wage job.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 21, 2012, 07:17 AM
today I overheard a Geek Squad and reg. best buy employee explaining the ipad to customers with more knowledge about the product than just about all of the apple employees I've met in the DC area. For example: Apple employee, "no firewire doesn't power the hard drive it has to come from somewhere else"

Doesn't shock me. There was a period in 2008ish area when just about anyone in the store became a Genius.

kazuhide
Jun 21, 2012, 07:21 AM
oh, and to put another misinformation campaign to rest:

Apple does not hire based on any sort of technical knowledge, or even familiarity with apple products. It hires COMPLETELY based on the person's personality, demeanor, and capability of providing friendly, positive service in a fast-paced environment, day after day.

I agree with this strategy, as apple can always train geniuses, and specialists will familiarize themselves with the products soon enough, since they will be dealing with them 8 hours a day for months. But no matter how intelligent or knowledgeable some folks are about apple products, many of them would make HORRIBLE sales staff in the service and personality department, and apple can't fix that.

finally, a word about geniuses. Many geniuses are indeed incredibly knowledgeable about apple products, repairs, software, and so forth. However, cheesy as it may sound, geniuses are there to 'repair relationships'. This is MUCH harder to do than replace a hard drive or broken screen. Some geniuses I've seen have skills on par with UN ambassadors. The primary goal of apple's genius bar is not to fix computers, but to restore confidence in the apple brand.


my two cents

kingtj
Jun 21, 2012, 07:30 AM
Perhaps, but most retail jobs don't require nearly the amount of effort and dedication to the job that Apple expects of one of their store employees.

I mean, let's take a relatively high-end clothing retailer like Nordstrom's, for example. Every time I set foot in the store in our mall, it's far from crowded. Often, I'll be one of maybe a dozen or fewer shoppers walking around in there, and I'm only cutting through the store to get to the rest of the mall. I'm not even shopping.

The retail employees there are generally just standing around, looking for the occasional chance to walk up to someone who looks like they're actually in need of something, to ask "Can I help you?"

They're not bombarded all day and night long with customer after customer asking technical questions, often starting out upset/irate because a problem with their expensive equipment is what brought them in, in the first place.

I agree that it's sad that $9/hr. is considered "pretty good" for retail... I would have agreed it was fair pay about 10 years ago, but not so much with inflation since then. But the same can be said in all manner of American jobs today, IMO. Every week I see job postings in my own city for computer network administrators, systems analysts and PC support people, demanding a slew of specialized skills, and they often want to pay something outrageously low, like a $32,000/yr. starting salary.


Sadly $9 is actually pretty good for a starting wage in retail in America.

dziewuliz
Jun 21, 2012, 07:37 AM
please be true, please be true, please be true.... :D

finnns2000
Jun 21, 2012, 07:42 AM
Actually, Apple pays the crappiest salaries in the industry. The company believes that working for them ought to be payment enough.

Yep. I laughed when management tried to use that one, or that commission kills integrity. So does ripping off your employees.

fitshaced
Jun 21, 2012, 08:12 AM
I'm amazed that you think I missed the point, to the extent that it amazes you.
So,

No, I responded to your direct statements "I hate Apple store staff". and "with a fake'i love working for Apple' face." and "when you need advice on a product, they haven't got a clue".. No mention of greeting at all let along the specific "hello". and you interpret a standard greeting as deception and btw "haven't got a clue" is a far far cry from "not very helpful."

So, you see what *I* did there.. YOU generalized a few isolated experiences and applied them to all Apple Store staff everywhere, which is a ridiculous thing to do. I illustrated that point by doing the very same thing with limited experience of you to all aspects of your personality and wildly exaggerated them so that you can see just how ridiculous and inappropriate those behaviors are. Since you are attempting to call me out on it, you prove the point that the behavior is inappropriate. This is called holding up a mirror.

I'm glad you learned something.

You still owe all the apple store employees with whom you have not directly interacted, an apology.

It's amazing because you still missed it. If you're being honest you'd accept that generalizations are a necessity in the world. Sure, racism etc is a wrong use when directed negatively. But generalising the way I did assumes some common sense on your part which you either don't had or just choose not to use.

My experience with apple staff is my experience. Not something you have an ability to assume knowledge of other than what I've said here. Yet, you think you know better. Plus, my expectancy of customer service is clearly different to yours.

I owe no one an apology and you suggesting I do is quite comical.

I used to work directly with customers and I understand that customers need a bit of space and prefer to see genuine assistance. I also know when a customer representative is being less genuine and over excited. That's not me being over sensitive or even grumpy. I'm nice to them. But prefer them to allow a bit of breathing space.

My comment on their knowledge of their products has been echoed on this thread a few times and by other people I have spoke to. Theyre not expected to know these products perfectly but often don't know much about many of them. Yet, they do know how to swipe your card.

I don't see them as poor workers. I do see them as unskilled labour workers.

brandair
Jun 21, 2012, 08:36 AM
A Mac user since 1986 says it once again: Apple is a greedy company. And ironically, the more successful the more greedier and monopolistic they have become. The egoistic US economy model is doomed, anyway.

jonnysods
Jun 21, 2012, 08:38 AM
They see so many people per day. Each time I see them they are super friendly!

BMNB1tch
Jun 21, 2012, 09:02 AM
Its amazing how stupid some of my fellow customers are, just looking at the new macbook pro retina the other day, some lady was yelling at the poor sales guy because she couldnt remember her own password. how does that happen in the modern world? I have 8 email address, 3 different work passwords, not counting all the social media site logins.

If you cant get a license for your car you're not allowed to drive...

25% increase is hardly enough compensation in cases like those.

darkazcura
Jun 21, 2012, 09:02 AM
People think 60k a year for a genius (potentially without a college degree) is low? Do you guys realize that's basically the average starting salary for an engineer after 4 years of schooling? Then again I haven't looked at the average salaries for a couple years, but I'll be freakin' estatic if I get 60k a year when I graduate (mechie engineer).

High school teachers don't even make 75% of that in some cases (which requires a masters degree in most cases)! Neuroscience majors who help us in huge ways trying to find causes for so many diseases would be happy to make 20 - 25 dollars a hour in a lab setting, and here people are complaining that a tech at an Apple store that requires little to no experience ONLY has the potential earning of 60k a year? Wow.

My brother who has a masters in epidemiology barely makes that salary.

60k is amazing for a retail store employee. Give me that job, geez. If Apple can afford that, I'm starting to possibly believe the salaries they give their engineers is too low (know someone who gets roughly triple that).

I do agree that $9/hour is a bit low for the entry level employee. I think $11 - $13 (starting) is probably appropriate for that.

BMNB1tch
Jun 21, 2012, 09:04 AM
A Mac user since 1986 says it once again: Apple is a greedy company. And ironically, the more successful the more greedier and monopolistic they have become. The egoistic US economy model is doomed, anyway.

Trollolol ^^^

and you have a secure low cost environmentally friendly opensource-hardware alternative ???

:D

britboyj
Jun 21, 2012, 09:35 AM
This of course means Apple employees won't be getting their normal raise of 2-4% depending on performance in September as usual.

vartanarsen
Jun 21, 2012, 09:39 AM
Does anyone know where the link is to that disgrunttled apple employee who had a blog? I think it was something like crapple or something lol

jterp7
Jun 21, 2012, 09:44 AM
oh, and to put another misinformation campaign to rest:

Apple does not hire based on any sort of technical knowledge, or even familiarity with apple products. It hires COMPLETELY based on the person's personality, demeanor, and capability of providing friendly, positive service in a fast-paced environment, day after day.

I agree with this strategy, as apple can always train geniuses, and specialists will familiarize themselves with the products soon enough, since they will be dealing with them 8 hours a day for months. But no matter how intelligent or knowledgeable some folks are about apple products, many of them would make HORRIBLE sales staff in the service and personality department, and apple can't fix that.

finally, a word about geniuses. Many geniuses are indeed incredibly knowledgeable about apple products, repairs, software, and so forth. However, cheesy as it may sound, geniuses are there to 'repair relationships'. This is MUCH harder to do than replace a hard drive or broken screen. Some geniuses I've seen have skills on par with UN ambassadors. The primary goal of apple's genius bar is not to fix computers, but to restore confidence in the apple brand.


my two cents

that's not necessarily true. Just as you can't force someone to become personable, the same can be said for product knowledge. I would gather that just about everyone who posts here regularly knows tons more about the product than the typical blue shirt apple employee. Tons of them I would bet are great salespeople (and were hired as such) but in my area they were no more personable nor knowledgeable than your typical BB, *insert electronics store* employee. To be honest it almost seems that with Apple's popularity in recent times you have a lot of people that want to work for them that don't really know anything about the product except that that its the status thing to own.

ixodes
Jun 21, 2012, 10:25 AM
I knew they were underpaid to begin with, but it must have been like wages of slave labor. Glad to hear they're getting a small bump. $4 in today's economy is pathetic. But then again, that's what one gets for being too lazy to get a good education. Before the haters jump in, I paid for every penny of my Masters. No one gave me a cent.

jonpwnz
Jun 21, 2012, 10:26 AM
This isn't happening for retail employees. Just talked to a genius friend of mine and they were told raises are happening, but they top out at 10%.

Edit: I'm curious as to why I'm being downvoted. I literally just talked to a friend of mine who is a genius, and I'm telling you, this is fact. Raises are topping out at 10%. This is still good news, but I'm sorry it doesn't line up with the above rumors.

not true. 25-35% your friend must not be a good employee

NeverhadaPC
Jun 21, 2012, 11:09 AM
I hope the performance-based raise will be accompanied by some training. In Ann Arbor, Michigan, The Geniuses are generally good, but the floor staff are either
(a) liars
(b) not knowledgable of their products.

Multiple occasions while scouting for Mac Mini and MBP, I was talking to floor staff about performance differences between sub-classes of same computer. Instead of saying, "I am not sure, let me check for you", these people made up answers that did not make sense:
(1) "the $100-$200 price-jump is worth it if you consider the increase in RAM."
----- I asked him whether RAM upgrade wasn't cheaper than price jump. He said "installing RAM yourself will void Apple warranty"... liar or stupid? :mad:

(2) I asked floor person if quad-core will perform better for video-processing than dual-core + GPU... she said: "there is no difference for video processing." :confused: (after reading up myself, it seems quad-core has the upper hand).

(3) Right after a repair (while still in store), my uMBP trackpad was popping up on the upper edge. I told floor person and he said: "but it works, right?"
---- I please try and convince a car owner after repair that the resulting dent doesn't affect performance. :mad:

acslater017
Jun 21, 2012, 11:59 AM
Something to me smells of ********. 25 cents perhaps, maybe even on top of whatever merit raise they might have earned. But 25% just cause. I doubt it

If 25 is the high end, and applied to the lowest-paid employees (entry-level Specialists in retail), then it's not so crazy. $9 to $11.

You-hab-ipadge?
Jun 21, 2012, 11:59 AM
I had a guy who can't distinguish the difference between a radeon 6490 and a 6550 other than its faster and talking about applications that rely sorely on CPU than the GPU. Ridiculous.



Alright, now I have to know! What's the difference between a radeon 6490 and a 6550?

rkw0211
Jun 21, 2012, 12:46 PM
Actually, I think that the level of knowledge you expect these people to have is a bit ridiculous. Could they know more about some things? Maybe. But most of the things you mentioned I wouldn't know off the top of my head either, and for 99.9999% of customers that walk through the door, the knowledge would be useless anyway.

JerryOnDrums
Jun 21, 2012, 02:38 PM
Still doesn't change the fact that unless you're a manager or a Genius, you aren't full time so you don't get insurance.

Turned down $20/hr as a Genius about 5 years ago because the hours suck. 6 days on, 4 off, 3 on, 2 off. Stuff like that where it's constantly switching. Plus they move you between morning, mid, and night shifts. No thanks.


Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread.

First, my fiancee currently works retail at Apple. When she was part-time, we both got benefits. Now she's full-time, and the benefits are even better. These are the same benefits that self-employed friends of mine pay $500+ a month for (for both of them), and my lady and I pay less than half that. Excellent coverage, too.

And to the guy that said that the raises top out at 10%, wrong. My fiancee got 15%.

Bheleu
Jun 21, 2012, 02:43 PM
Alright, now I have to know! What's the difference between a radeon 6490 and a 6550?
6550 vs 6490
128bit vs 64bit bus
2x more pipelines
Slower clocks, but more overall dataflow due to wider bus
Also the 6490 is the higher end of the older series, while the 6550 is mid to lower of the next series (so 6490 is likely faster).

6490----------------------------------------------------
Manufacturer
AMD
Radeon HD 6400M Series
Radeon HD 6490M 160@700 / 750 / 800MHz
Radeon HD 6470M 160@700 / 750MHz
Radeon HD 6450M 160@600MHz
Radeon HD 6430M 160@480MHz

Codename
Seymour XT

Architecture
Terascale 2

Pipelines
160 - unified

Core Speed *
700 / 750 / 800 MHz

Shader Speed *
700 / 750 / 800 MHz

Memory Speed *
800 MHz

Memory Bus Width
64 Bit

Memory Type
DDR3/GDDR5

Max. Amount of Memory
512 MB

Shared Memory
no

DirectX
DirectX 11, Shader 5.0

technology
40 nm

Date of Announcement
06.01.2011

6550---------------------------------------------------------
Manufacturer
AMD

Radeon HD 6500M Series
Radeon HD 6570M 400@650MHz
Radeon HD 6550M 400@600MHz
Radeon HD 6530M 400@500MHz

Codename
Capilano-PRO

Architecture
Terascale 2

Pipelines
400 - unified

Core Speed *
600 MHz

Shader Speed *
600 MHz

Memory Speed *
800 MHz

Memory Bus Width
128 Bit

Memory Type
DDR3

Max. Amount of Memory
1024 MB

Shared Memory
no

DirectX
DirectX 11, Shader 5.0

technology
40 nm

Notebook Size
medium sized

Date of Announcement
26.11.2010

Geekbabe
Jun 21, 2012, 03:05 PM
I hate Apple store staff. They're all over you as soon as you walk into the shop with a fake'i love working for Apple' face. Then, when you need advice on a product, they haven't got a clue. If I want a pay rise in my job, I atleast have to prove I'm good at what I do.

I appreciate being acknowledged & greeted warmly when I enter a store, particularly when that store sells high end, expensive products. I appreciate that I can make an appointment for service or for a free workshop & know that I will be helped in a timely manner.

I enjoy going into the Apple store, I don't have to hunt down a sales associate, I don't have to stand & wait forever for help or to pay for my purchases like I do at other stores. As far as being clueless about products go, have you been to Best Buy lately? About the only thing many BB sales associates have in depth knowledge of is the Best Buy warranty program.

jterp7
Jun 21, 2012, 03:20 PM
I appreciate being acknowledged & greeted warmly when I enter a store, particularly when that store sells high end, expensive products. I appreciate that I can make an appointment for service or for a free workshop & know that I will be helped in a timely manner.

I enjoy going into the Apple store, I don't have to hunt down a sales associate, I don't have to stand & wait forever for help or to pay for my purchases like I do at other stores. As far as being clueless about products go, have you been to Best Buy lately? About the only thing many BB sales associates have in depth knowledge of is the Best Buy warranty program.

must be a big city thing then, the reverse is true in the DC area:p

danwayfilms
Jun 21, 2012, 03:26 PM
I'm sure this is probably not the case in every apple store, but I have never had a helpful genius despite me politely explaining the problem and that swapping a harddrive does not break apple warranty. They have turned me away each time I tried to present my problem. It makes me think that all they is do help people who can't figure out how to turn on their computers.

I know they do more, but ive had bad experiences, and 30/h seems like a lot for nothing.

jterp7
Jun 21, 2012, 03:31 PM
I'm sure this is probably not the case in every apple store, but I have never had a helpful genius despite me politely explaining the problem and that swapping a harddrive does not break apple warranty. They have turned me away each time I tried to present my problem. It makes me think that all they is do help people who can't figure out how to turn on their computers.

I know they do more, but ive had bad experiences, and 30/h seems like a lot for nothing.

haha it's part of the mac stereotype you know. Supposed to be easy to use, hence the lack of a manual.

giddy
Jun 21, 2012, 03:44 PM
In the Apple Store I know best, most of the workers are kids getting through college on their own or graduates who couldn't find good jobs in the current job market.

Of course there are some flawed exceptions--I remind you that perfection is unattainable--but Apple employees are patient, gracious, and calm under pressure. I go to a very large, busy store, and the staff there is pleasant, friendly, and quick to help. I'm not an oblivious new-to-Mac baby boomer, either. I'm in my early twenties and I know computers.

I think the retail employees at Apple are doing a great job. Especially because I've witnessed them deal with situations I'd find unbearable within the first ten minutes. People forget their own passwords and (I'm not making this up) get angry with the Apple employees, who are too polite to point out that it's the customer's own damn fault. Or the customers who think that their happy-hour mishap with their wine-soaked iPhones should be covered under warranty. That's unrealistic.

This is followed by the self-titled "expert" who comes into the Apple Store specifically to boost his own ego by asking some obscure question that an Apple Store employee has probably never needed to answer before--for God's sake, not even .001% of the world population knows or cares about the differences between a Radeon 6490 and a 6550--and when the employee doesn't answer correctly or immediately, our "expert" runs home to his custom-built machine (sweet case mods configuration, bro), minimizes World of Warcraft, and gets on every techie website to tell of his "awful" experience with the "idiotic" Apple Store employees. It would have made much more sense to stay at home at look at the tech specs on Apple's website in the first place, by the way...the Apple Stores exist for people seeking service, not specs.

I digress.

But while I'm so worked up over this, here's a thought: maybe Apple should just give free Xanax to these poor kids. They try so hard and so many of their customers are just terrible people.

Seriously...let's all take a moment to be glad we don't work there.

Zaqfalcon
Jun 21, 2012, 05:57 PM
If he was talking about geographic size, he was wrong. If he was talking about ego size, he was not.

Ego as a percentage of Australia measured in big heads:

United States.......1773%
Texas ..........1000%
Rest of the South...400%
NYC......................303%
We who use Macs.....70%


LOL, you're a funny bugger. Probably get voted down for encouraging you. Keep it up!

ruvil
Jun 21, 2012, 06:00 PM
sorry, I just can't handle all the misinformation on this thread.

1. any apple employee who works more than 3 months (part-time OR full-time) is eligible for full medical benefits
2. pay is based on the location and local standards of living/costs. apple store china workers make less than apple store ohio workers who make less than apple store NYC workers, who probably make the most, or perhaps apple store norway or UK.
3. apple store is retail, but it's like no other retail job you will ever have. It is possibly the best retail working experience in America. Retention is very high, and acceptance is around 6% of applicants. Hiring age starts at 18, but the median age is more like 30, with 60 year olds to 20 year olds and the full gamut of ethnic, social, and countercultural diversity being represented. First careers, second careers, and so forth. Nearly every employee I've ever met has been a college graduate.
4. anyone who disses or smears the entry level wage at Apple, ignoring the generous benefit and wage system, and incredible opportunities for growth within the company, must here forth say what job they actually do and what wage they actually make, otherwise you are just trolling and a hater.
5. people are also ignoring something important. Money is obviously not everything. Garbage men make an excellent living, much better than school teachers, apple employees, and many office workers. So why isn't everyone a garbage man? You are ignoring the proposition that Apple is a fantastic company to work for, and having a job that you wake up and enjoy going to in the morning is worth 5 jobs that pay better but drain your will to live.

Thanks! You seem to be the only here with some common sense. I agree 100% with your 5th statement.

A job that you _truly_ enjoy is worth so much more than a job that you don't really like but get paid more for. Even though money helps a lot, it's not everything. The most important thing is that you feel happy and comfortable with your job and life.

And by the way, it really confuses me why everyone here seems to be so against "retail" positions. Sure it might not be a fancy CEO job where you earn millions of dollars/month... but i really can't see what's wrong with it and i would absolutely not call it "just retail".

Tuckrat
Jun 21, 2012, 07:45 PM
Maybe they can afford some soap now.

Joe The Dragon
Jun 21, 2012, 07:51 PM
$30/hr for a genius? That's a lot. Do you need a bachelor degree for that?

CS is not IT and bachelor degree is over kill for IT / PC / MAC work.

kazuhide
Jun 21, 2012, 10:14 PM
that's not necessarily true. Just as you can't force someone to become personable, the same can be said for product knowledge. I would gather that just about everyone who posts here regularly knows tons more about the product than the typical blue shirt apple employee. Tons of them I would bet are great salespeople (and were hired as such) but in my area they were no more personable nor knowledgeable than your typical BB, *insert electronics store* employee. To be honest it almost seems that with Apple's popularity in recent times you have a lot of people that want to work for them that don't really know anything about the product except that that its the status thing to own.

that's what I said, they don't hire based on product knowledge. If someone is a condescending jerk that knows everything about apple, it is still a bad idea to hire them, and apple doesn't hire them.

That being said, does everyone on here know why Steve's outlook is not syncing properly with his iPhone? Does everyone on here know how to explain and show the assistive features of an iPad to a visually impaired/legally blind person who wants to buy one? Does everyone on macrumors know how to handle a ballistic customer who just dropped her new iPhone on the sidewalk outside but didn't purchase applecare plus? Does everyone here know how to recover an iCloud password for a customer who doesn't know her recovery email password, and lied about her age when setting up the security questions and doesn't remember the year. Then, when the mail password is reset, can't change the settings on her blackberry to receive mail again because she doesn't know her blackberry password either and is leaving on an important business trip tomorrow morning and tmobile shop is already closed?

an apple retail employee needs to know all of these things and so many more.

people on macrumors most often use common sense, know their passwords, and don't do crazy things with their products to mess them up in incomprehensible ways. Apple employees see that kind of stuff daily. If all apple store customers were like rumor forum folks, they'd need half the staff they have currently.

fitshaced
Jun 21, 2012, 11:08 PM
that's what I said, they don't hire based on product knowledge. If someone is a condescending jerk that knows everything about apple, it is still a bad idea to hire them, and apple doesn't hire them.

That being said, does everyone on here know why Steve's outlook is not syncing properly with his iPhone? Does everyone on here know how to explain and show the assistive features of an iPad to a visually impaired/legally blind person who wants to buy one? Does everyone on macrumors know how to handle a ballistic customer who just dropped her new iPhone on the sidewalk outside but didn't purchase applecare plus? Does everyone here know how to recover an iCloud password for a customer who doesn't know her recovery email password, and lied about her age when setting up the security questions and doesn't remember the year. Then, when the mail password is reset, can't change the settings on her blackberry to receive mail again because she doesn't know her blackberry password either and is leaving on an important business trip tomorrow morning and tmobile shop is already closed?

an apple retail employee needs to know all of these things and so many more.

people on macrumors most often use common sense, know their passwords, and don't do crazy things with their products to mess them up in incomprehensible ways. Apple employees see that kind of stuff daily. If all apple store customers were like rumor forum folks, they'd need half the staff they have currently.

Actually, I see them knowing next to nothing about the third party stuff they sell. That's the most frustrating thing. They can tell you basics about their phones, laptops etc but not much else. I guess that might be on purpose as the more you know, the more you're worth.

Ask them about the headphones they sell and they'll admit to not knowing (correct response) or guess (worst response).

But product knowledge is everything when it comes to sales. They aren't high earners in the retail market as apple has already done much of the selling for them. They need to swipe a card.

R94N
Jun 22, 2012, 03:18 AM
Seems like another example of changes brought about by the 'nicer' Tim Cook. Steve Jobs seemed like a nice guy but he could be really harsh on people.

iDabble
Jun 22, 2012, 04:45 AM
Good for them. Why get upset over another man's gains?

Defactomonkey
Jun 22, 2012, 06:12 AM
Good!! Maybe I can finally get someone to help me at the Apple Store when I am ready to lay down $3000 for a computer, instead of walking out and turning to eBay instead. ****** service does not deserve my business.

Couldn't figure out the smart signs?

rovex
Jun 22, 2012, 07:13 AM
We all know where Spaniards are heading off to.

Stella
Jun 22, 2012, 11:28 AM
Some people say Apple retail are paid above average, others say below.

Giving employees raises, especially when the retail stores produce the profits they do, is great. Without the employees, Apple Retail stores wouldn't exist

AidenShaw
Jun 24, 2012, 01:17 PM
(above is the hard-copy title for the article in today's Mercury News)

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_20926179/legion-fans-apple-retail-jobs-prove-letdown-pay
(quoted in entirety)

For legion of fans, Apple retail jobs prove a letdown

By David Segal
New York Times

Last year, during his best three-month stretch, Jordan Golson sold about $750,000 worth of computers and gadgets at the Apple Store in Salem, N.H. It was a performance that might have called for a bottle of Champagne -- if that were a luxury Golson could have afforded.

"I was earning $11.25 an hour," he said. "Part of me was thinking, 'This is great. I'm an Apple fan, the store is doing really well.' But when you look at the amount of money the company is making, and then you look at your paycheck, it's kind of tough."

America's love affair with the smartphone has helped create tens of thousands of jobs at places like Best Buy and Verizon Wireless and will this year pump billions into the economy.

Within this world, the Apple Store is the undisputed king, a retail phenomenon renowned for impeccable design, deft service and spectacular revenues. Last year, Apple's 327 global stores took in more money per square foot than any other U.S. retailer -- wireless or otherwise -- and almost double that of Tiffany, which was No. 2 on the list, according to the research firm RetailSails.

But most of Apple's employees enjoyed little of that wealth. While consumers tend to think of Apple's headquarters in Cupertino as the company's heart and soul, a majority of its workers in the United States are not engineers or executives with hefty salaries and bonuses but rather hourly wage earners selling iPhones and MacBooks.

About 30,000 of the 43,000 Apple employees in this country work in Apple Stores, as members of the service economy, and many of them earn about $25,000 a year. They work inside the world's fastest growing industry, for the most valuable company, run by one of the country's most richly compensated chief executives, Tim Cook. Last year, he received stock grants, which vest over a 10-year period, that at today's share price would be worth more than $570 million.

And though Apple is unparalleled as a retailer, when it comes to its lowliest workers, the company is a reflection of the technology industry as a whole.

Much of the debate about U.S. unemployment has focused on why companies have moved factories overseas, but only 8 percent of the U.S. work force is in manufacturing, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Job growth has for decades been led by service-related work.

And as the service sector has grown, the definition of a career has been reframed for millions of U.S. workers.

By the standards of retailing, Apple offers above-average pay -- well above the minimum wage of $7.25 and better than Gap, though slightly less than Lululemon, the yoga and athletic apparel chain, where sales staff earn about $12 an hour. The company also offers very good benefits for a retailer, including health care, 401(k) contributions and the chance to buy company stock, as well as Apple products, at a discount.

Even Apple, it seems, has recently decided it needs to pay its workers more. Last week, four months after The New York Times first began inquiring about the wages of its store employees, the company started to inform some staff members that they would receive substantial raises.

Apple declined requests for interviews for this article. Instead, the company issued a statement: "Thousands of incredibly talented professionals work behind the Genius Bar and deliver the best customer service in the world. The annual retention rate for Geniuses is almost 90%, which is unheard-of in the retail industry, and shows how passionate they are about their customers and their careers at Apple."

OldSchoolMacGuy
Jun 27, 2012, 10:03 AM
Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread.

First, my fiancee currently works retail at Apple. When she was part-time, we both got benefits. Now she's full-time, and the benefits are even better. These are the same benefits that self-employed friends of mine pay $500+ a month for (for both of them), and my lady and I pay less than half that. Excellent coverage, too.

And to the guy that said that the raises top out at 10%, wrong. My fiancee got 15%.

This was more than 6 years ago. Was your fiancé working there and getting benefits working part time at that point? I can only speak for that time period but back then, from what I was told by the manager in charge of all 5 stores in Minnesota, they did not give insurance and other benefits to part-time employees.