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MacRumors
Jun 22, 2012, 08:49 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/22/apple-expands-testing-of-os-x-mountain-lion-to-select-retail-store-staff/)


With OS X Mountain Lion set to launch to the public sometime next month, 9to5Mac reports (http://9to5mac.com/2012/06/21/apple-asks-retail-staff-to-test-os-x-mountain-lion-ahead-of-july-launch/) that Apple has asked select members of its retail store staff to begin testing the software.In an e-mail to Apple Store Genius Bar members and Creatives, Apple has provided access to its OS X Mountain Lion AppleSeed testing program...

This testing is to be done on personal Macs belonging to employees, and is not standardized in-store OS X Mountain Lion training.Not only will the program provide additional testers for Apple as it expands beyond registered Mac developers, but it will also give retail store staff a head start on gaining familiarity with the forthcoming operating system before formal training begins.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/mountain_lion_seeding_invite.jpg


Apple is almost certainly wrapping up work on OS X Mountain Lion, if it hasn't completed it already, with the company issuing a "near-final" build to developers at its Worldwide Developers Conference earlier this month. With OS X Mountain Lion being a Mac App Store exclusive, Apple can continue to work on the operating system until relatively close to the launch date given that it does not need to build in time for pressing millions of DVDs, but the company will want some time to ensure that the golden master build is behaving properly before it is released to the public.

Article Link: Apple Expands Testing of OS X Mountain Lion to Select Retail Store Staff (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/22/apple-expands-testing-of-os-x-mountain-lion-to-select-retail-store-staff/)



killmoms
Jun 22, 2012, 08:51 AM
Interesting, AFAIK this is the first time they've done this. I suppose it will help for training purposes, though Apple Store employees are aided in that ML is mostly the same as Lion, with a few refinements.

jasonxneo
Jun 22, 2012, 08:51 AM
It would be great to be able to have a sneak peak of mountain lion! :)

gpat
Jun 22, 2012, 08:53 AM
So regular employees now serve as beta testers as well?

DrJohnnyN
Jun 22, 2012, 08:54 AM
What a great perk!

AustinIllini
Jun 22, 2012, 08:59 AM
This makes me think about how Google rolls out services. "You're invited!". If only Apple Staff could invite us to join in

mogzieee
Jun 22, 2012, 09:00 AM
I really hope there is one Apple employee out there who can feedback the dual screening issue with fullscreen apps that is currently such a bane in Lion. I seriously hope there's a fix to this in Mountain Lion! Pleeeeease?

RoelJuun
Jun 22, 2012, 09:01 AM
What a great perk!

You can buy that perk for $100. Just sign up for the developer program.

rafaltrus
Jun 22, 2012, 09:01 AM
So regular employees now serve as beta testers as well?

Developers focus on debugging, noticing performance issues and their causes, etc.
"Regular" users, such as Apple Store employees, will look at the Mac OS X and report daily-usage bugs and inconveniences.

I think it's pretty cool.

hirshnoc
Jun 22, 2012, 09:03 AM
I wonder if they'll release a much more expensive USB version like last time?

Or maybe they think a year is enough time for everyone to have gotten high-speed internet.... :D

stisdal
Jun 22, 2012, 09:05 AM
I'm thinking the GM is ready for release with this happening...

newagemac
Jun 22, 2012, 09:05 AM
With OS X Mountain Lion being a Mac App Store exclusive, Apple can continue to work on the operating system until relatively close to the launch date given that it does not need to build in time for pressing millions of DVDs

The ability to fix last minute bugs and shorter lead times. Another nice benefit of digital delivery systems like the Mac App Store. :)

ghostface147
Jun 22, 2012, 09:06 AM
I really hope there is one Apple employee out there who can feedback the dual screening issue with fullscreen apps that is currently such a bane in Lion. I seriously hope there's a fix to this in Mountain Lion! Pleeeeease?

I am running developer preview 4 with the latest update that came out earlier this week. What is the issue you are having so I can see if it still exists?

rafaltrus
Jun 22, 2012, 09:07 AM
I wonder if they'll release a much more expensive USB version like last time?

Or maybe they think a year is enough time for everyone to have gotten high-speed internet.... :D

Although I agree it is a hassle for some people, you have to admit that Apple is really pushing/leading the cloud industry. Abandoning optical discs, while making Macs even more popular, lets Apple put some pressure on internet providers!

kjs862
Jun 22, 2012, 09:16 AM
Great I can't wait, looking forward to the increase in iCloud support. Though, I still wish it had a file system in the cloud.

Does anyone know if 'Documents in the Cloud' supports any type of folder option, or does it just show all your files in one list when the application launches?

I like to keep my pages documents in folders, for example a resume folder.

ckelley
Jun 22, 2012, 09:17 AM
I am running developer preview 4 with the latest update that came out earlier this week. What is the issue you are having so I can see if it still exists?
I think his issue is this: Let's say you have multiple monitors, say a 27" display and a 17" MacBook Display... you're doing work on the 27" but want to use the full-screen feature of an app on the 17" display. You click the icon in the upper-right to make it full screen and it turns your 27" display into a huge screen of linen!

If you could full-screen apps on one display and still allow you to have access to working on the other display, that would be tremendous, but as of now (Lion), you can't.

syndalis
Jun 22, 2012, 09:19 AM
I really hope there is one Apple employee out there who can feedback the dual screening issue with fullscreen apps that is currently such a bane in Lion. I seriously hope there's a fix to this in Mountain Lion! Pleeeeease?

http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html#system

Looks like it is fixed; check the first feature under system.

SvP
Jun 22, 2012, 09:22 AM
http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html#system

Looks like it is fixed; check the first feature under system.

It's not, the second display goes grey when you do that.

Asmod4n
Jun 22, 2012, 09:23 AM
There is a Thread in the 10.8 Forum here about it, in short: It's fixed, it should work like one would expect it.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 22, 2012, 09:26 AM
It's about Fing time. I hated it when I was working the Genius bar when a new OS came out because none of us knew anything about it or saw it.

cammonro
Jun 22, 2012, 09:26 AM
The only thing I care about is performance and stability improvements. Lion is a bloated and buggy disaster. Every day I use my Mac I regret "up" grading from Snow Leopard. The longer I use Lion the more I hate it and I've loved every previous OS X release to date. I'm really hoping Mountain Lion fixes this mess.

Aidan5806
Jun 22, 2012, 09:27 AM
Ya know, it'd be cool if they expanded prerelease versions to like one device per apple store. So there could possibly be a MacBook Pro running the gm of mountain lion and an iPad running the beta of IOS 6. All just so more people become familiar with what's coming so they feel inclined to update. Not everyone watches the keynote and even fewer actually use an iOS or OSX beta before release.

newagemac
Jun 22, 2012, 09:29 AM
I think his issue is this: Let's say you have multiple monitors, say a 27" display and a 17" MacBook Display... you're doing work on the 27" but want to use the full-screen feature of an app on the 17" display. You click the icon in the upper-right to make it full screen and it turns your 27" display into a huge screen of linen!

If you could full-screen apps on one display and still allow you to have access to working on the other display, that would be tremendous, but as of now (Lion), you can't.

Actually it turns your 27" display into a usable second monitor for any extra windows or panels for that particular full screened app. If it instead worked the way you described, there would be no way to get those additional panels or windows on the second monitor without other stuff cluttering in the background while in full screen. Thus defeating one of the main purposes of full screen mode.

Of course most people don't realize that full screen mode in Lion allows full screen apps to have secondary windows and panels displayed on the second monitor so they think the second monitor can't be used for anything while in full screen when that isn't really the case.

Apple needs to make people more aware of that functionality. And a lot of app developers haven't enabled that functionality in their apps yet so they are at fault as well.

Also in Mountain Lion, you can now choose to have the main window on either monitor with the additional content for the app on the other monitor. So the 27" will be filled with the app itself and the 17" will contain the inspector panels or whatever else while in full screen.

Aidan5806
Jun 22, 2012, 09:29 AM
I really hope there is one Apple employee out there who can feedback the dual screening issue with fullscreen apps that is currently such a bane in Lion. I seriously hope there's a fix to this in Mountain Lion! Pleeeeease?

It's been stated in the gm beta that mountain lion provides users with the ability to run multiple full screen apps on multiple monitors.

Billy Boo Bob
Jun 22, 2012, 09:31 AM
It's about Fing time. I hated it when I was working the Genius bar when a new OS came out because none of us knew anything about it or saw it.

That's probably the best thing about this plan... I would imagine that could be a major hassle.

marcusj0015
Jun 22, 2012, 09:38 AM
Hey guys, is ML x64 only yet? what's going on with that?

ghostface147
Jun 22, 2012, 09:43 AM
I think his issue is this: Let's say you have multiple monitors, say a 27" display and a 17" MacBook Display... you're doing work on the 27" but want to use the full-screen feature of an app on the 17" display. You click the icon in the upper-right to make it full screen and it turns your 27" display into a huge screen of linen!

If you could full-screen apps on one display and still allow you to have access to working on the other display, that would be tremendous, but as of now (Lion), you can't.

Just tried it, it still shows that gray background.

----------

It's about Fing time. I hated it when I was working the Genius bar when a new OS came out because none of us knew anything about it or saw it.

Ever heard of the internet? They say you can get anything you want from it. Why didn't you go down that route? Provided you weren't working the genius bar in 04 or something...

KindredMAC
Jun 22, 2012, 09:43 AM
Has anyone been testing Mountain Lion with any of the CS6 software?
I'm most concerned about Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign at this point.
Thanks!

waldobushman
Jun 22, 2012, 09:44 AM
Unless bugs are found, looks like early July will be the release date. But, and this is a big but, how many of the applications I use will need to be upgraded for compatibility with it?

Fraaaa
Jun 22, 2012, 09:46 AM
It's not, the second display goes grey when you do that.

In the second display that goes gray you can have a second full screen app.

If you intend to have a app that in full screen take advantage of the two display, then is another matter. I read somewhere in the forum that the you can move on the linen display those floating panels of the app you are using in full screen. There are API for using the second screen, however, developers haven't take advantage of it yet.

Codyak
Jun 22, 2012, 09:47 AM
If you could full-screen apps on one display and still allow you to have access to working on the other display, that would be tremendous, but as of now (Lion), you can't.

Not to be that guy but, does't even XP already do this?? :confused:

GenesisST
Jun 22, 2012, 09:47 AM
Hey guys, is ML x64 only yet? what's going on with that?

Isn't Lion x64 only?

Spanky Deluxe
Jun 22, 2012, 09:52 AM
Hey guys, is ML x64 only yet? what's going on with that?

Yes it is. There is no longer a 32-bit kernel and most of the kexts ('drivers') are 64 bit only now. Older macs with 64-bit CPUs but 32-bit EFIs ('bios') could still work with a bit of hacking around. E.g. earlier Core 2 Duo machines and 2006/2007 Mac Pros. Older 32-bit machines might still be frankensteined into working since the first developer version did have a 32 bit kernel.

It's a shame as Mountain Lion is much nicer than Lion. The ability to semi-fix Exposť is a worthy enough reason to upgrade - reinstating a Snow Leopard like feel.

bbeagle
Jun 22, 2012, 09:53 AM
Not to be that guy but, does't even XP already do this?? :confused: I know that 7 and 8 do.

No. None of the Windows versions do this.

If you full-screen a WINDOW, it takes up only the screen the window is on. The other screen is available for working on something else. Mac OS X works exactly like this for WINDOWS.

But if you full-screen the entire app which is NOT a window (which in Windows would be full screen games, for example), both OS's work the same.

Maximizing a WINDOW to full-screen and full-screening an APP are 2 different things.

mixel
Jun 22, 2012, 10:03 AM
Has anyone been testing Mountain Lion with any of the CS6 software?
I'm most concerned about Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign at this point.
Thanks!
I'm guessing the others are fine too, but I can vouch for Photoshop CS6 working perfectly here in DP4.

dokujaryu
Jun 22, 2012, 10:04 AM
No. None of the Windows versions do this.

If you full-screen a WINDOW, it takes up only the screen the window is on. The other screen is available for working on something else. Mac OS X works exactly like this for WINDOWS.

But if you full-screen the entire app which is NOT a window (which in Windows would be full screen games, for example), both OS's work the same.

Maximizing a WINDOW to full-screen and full-screening an APP are 2 different things.

The important part about full screen apps is not how it fills the screen, but the behavior of the app when in full screen mode. This is as close as you are going to get to the ease of use of an iPad application on the desktop. The app "owns" the screen. Sheets are used instead of new windows in the mail client for example.

Virtual Steve
Jun 22, 2012, 10:05 AM
Unless bugs are found, looks like early July will be the release date. But, and this is a big but, how many of the applications I use will need to be upgraded for compatibility with it?

This might help with your big but :D

http://roaringapps.com/apps:table

AppleGuesser
Jun 22, 2012, 10:20 AM
I am really excited. Im hoping for an early july release!:D

needfx
Jun 22, 2012, 10:23 AM
Submitting CV, think I can make it on time?

tdhurst
Jun 22, 2012, 10:24 AM
Interesting, AFAIK this is the first time they've done this. I suppose it will help for training purposes, though Apple Store employees are aided in that ML is mostly the same as Lion, with a few refinements.

Finally!

I remember working OS X launches when I was employed by Apple Retail and having about two hours TOPS to play before customers came in and started asking questions I couldn't answer.

Thankfully Apple stores were slower and frequented by a far higher percentage of techies back then, so "let's find out together" was fun rather than aggravating.

Mad-B-One
Jun 22, 2012, 10:24 AM
Actually it turns your 27" display into a usable second monitor for any extra windows or panels for that particular full screened app. If it instead worked the way you described, there would be no way to get those additional panels or windows on the second monitor without other stuff cluttering in the background while in full screen. Thus defeating one of the main purposes of full screen mode.

Of course most people don't realize that full screen mode in Lion allows full screen apps to have secondary windows and panels displayed on the second monitor so they think the second monitor can't be used for anything while in full screen when that isn't really the case.

Apple needs to make people more aware of that functionality. And a lot of app developers haven't enabled that functionality in their apps yet so they are at fault as well.

Also in Mountain Lion, you can now choose to have the main window on either monitor with the additional content for the app on the other monitor. So the 27" will be filled with the app itself and the 17" will contain the inspector panels or whatever else while in full screen.

I see where you come from - and for a lot of people and work situations, this is a good thing. Now, imagine a person used to Windows with 2+ monitors: You have the possibility to have one application on "full screen" on one monitor and work on a different application on the second sceen because App 1 on the first monitor does not interfere with montior two. If you are video editing or so, it might not be needed, but many of us use 2 monitors to keep an eye on multiple things.: I can copy and past from one app to the other without having to minimize (or so) the main app, I can play a game on one monitor and keep my voicechat on the other one, I can browse and keep my mail program both maximized, I can work on my school paper on one monitor and have the eBook (web-database, etc) open on the other one, and so on. I can basically work on two different things at once which in a lot of situations is the point of having 2 or more montiors. I know you can adjust the window size of applications and "fake" a full screen this way, but I think the other poster wondered why there is no option to keep everything of the maximized app on one monitor when using "full screen."

Maury
Jun 22, 2012, 10:25 AM
[snipped, already covered]

cammonro
Jun 22, 2012, 10:26 AM
All this endless debate about how full screen apps should and should not behave - what's wrong with just giving users a simple system preferences setting that allows them to decide how they want it to work?

Personally I think it's silly to have a $1000 display blanked out with linen fabric. The way Parallels uses dual monitors in full screen mode is great though. In fact Parallels is the only app I can think of that lets you even utilize your secondary display properly.

iBug2
Jun 22, 2012, 10:26 AM
I am really excited. Im hoping for an early july release!:D

GM most probably will be released to developers early July exactly like Lion (July 1st GM release with Lion) and then it can go on sale late July like Lion (20th of July Lion). Even if it's digital distribution, you still need couple of weeks to test the GM before releasing it to the public.

Caliber26
Jun 22, 2012, 10:28 AM
I can't wait for this to be released. One thing I am UBER excited about is being able to AirPlay Mirror my iMac onto my bedroom TV. :D:D:D

milo
Jun 22, 2012, 10:28 AM
I really hope there is one Apple employee out there who can feedback the dual screening issue with fullscreen apps that is currently such a bane in Lion. I seriously hope there's a fix to this in Mountain Lion! Pleeeeease?

You mean how it blanks out the second screen, no way to use that? The testers have been screaming about that one since Lion, so Apple is well aware and just hasn't done anything about it.

In general, many people assume that software ships with problems when the situation is usually that they were reported by many people but the developer ships it that way anyway. Either they don't agree it's a problem, they don't think it's widespread enough to make a priority, or they have a deadline to meet and just run out of time.

Maury
Jun 22, 2012, 10:30 AM
Older macs with 64-bit CPUs but 32-bit EFIs ('bios') could still work with a bit of hacking around.

How should I interpret that "could":

1) it's been done
2) someone might figure it out in the future?

AppleGuesser
Jun 22, 2012, 10:31 AM
GM most probably will be released to developers early July exactly like Lion (July 1st GM release with Lion) and then it can go on sale late July like Lion (20th of July Lion). Even if it's digital distribution, you still need couple of weeks to test the GM before releasing it to the public.

Yeah, you are probably right, that makes complete sense. Either way we arent too far from the release :D

iBug2
Jun 22, 2012, 10:33 AM
I can't wait for this to be released. One thing I am UBER excited about is being able to AirPlay Mirror my iMac onto my bedroom TV. :D:D:D

Wait till you see how "snappy" Safari is. (And no, this time it's no sarcasm, the new scrolling in Safari using core animation is insanely fluid.)

Mad-B-One
Jun 22, 2012, 10:38 AM
Submitting CV, think I can make it on time?

Now, that they made all these raises, way to go! :D Still wonder if that would be worth it for me since I got that $23,316.89 Benefit Package for all my insurances and other costs my employer has to pay. (and yes, that is the exact number ;) )

SteveLV702
Jun 22, 2012, 10:38 AM
Has anyone been testing Mountain Lion with any of the CS6 software?
I'm most concerned about Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign at this point.
Thanks!

Yes and all work fine in ML

doobybiggs
Jun 22, 2012, 10:42 AM
when will they give a release day?

milo
Jun 22, 2012, 10:47 AM
In the second display that goes gray you can have a second full screen app.

No you can't, that's the whole problem. A number of people have said this but I think they have misunderstood something they read.

Mad-B-One
Jun 22, 2012, 10:47 AM
when will they give a release day?

Many hinted towards early next month (the actual release, not just giving a date). Don't worry - it's not Duke Nukem Forever or Diablo III. :cool:

Bobajobbob
Jun 22, 2012, 10:53 AM
Someone posted above about Lion being a laggy and buggy mess and I must admit that was my first impression on upgrading to Lion. I subsequently upgraded to the first Mountain Lion preview and was similarly unimpressed by performance. I then performed a clean install on a later preview build and my machine and ML are transformed.

I've never had to do this with previous version of OSX but for some reason the upgrade from SL to Lion and then to ML was not a success. The system worked but boy was it laggy.

Having clean installed ML I can say that it runs very very well and Safari really is snappier. Any performance criticisms of Lion I had are out of the window and ML really is a great update. Not revolutionary but evolutionary with some great new features that really add to the experience. In fact the only function still seems incongruous and unnecessary is Launchpad. Maybe it will make sense when Apple launches a touch screen Mac but right now I don't use it and can't think if a use for it.

Yamcha
Jun 22, 2012, 10:54 AM
Maybe this means we'll see Mountain Lion on the 1st of July?

twoodcc
Jun 22, 2012, 10:56 AM
i think this is a good move by apple.

Caliber26
Jun 22, 2012, 10:57 AM
Wait till you see how "snappy" Safari is. (And no, this time it's no sarcasm, the new scrolling in Safari using core animation is insanely fluid.)

Will AirPlay Mirroring support any type of video that I'm playing on my Mac?

Dionte
Jun 22, 2012, 11:02 AM
That's one thing I like about Microsoft, they invite everybody to the beta party.

iBug2
Jun 22, 2012, 12:02 PM
Will AirPlay Mirroring support any type of video that I'm playing on my Mac?

I have no idea, but it should, after all it's basically whatever is on screen. The only problem I can think of would be DRM'd material.

nsayer
Jun 22, 2012, 12:08 PM
The ability to fix last minute bugs and shorter lead times. Another nice benefit of digital delivery systems like the Mac App Store. :)

Well, apart from real show-stopper issues, the need to have the release absolutely spit-shine perfect is largely mitigated by the software update system. In the past, there was not too much time between the release of the .0 on DVD and the .1 software update, because the latter usually consisted of things found after the GM went to press but before they hit the stores.

Korovka
Jun 22, 2012, 12:11 PM
Anybody knows why DP4 fails to boot with OCZ Octane SSD (but boots OK in Safe mode)? Apple did not respond on bugreport, OCZ don't want to deal with this issue too.

cammonro
Jun 22, 2012, 12:17 PM
Someone posted above about Lion being a laggy and buggy mess and I must admit that was my first impression on upgrading to Lion. I subsequently upgraded to the first Mountain Lion preview and was similarly unimpressed by performance. I then performed a clean install on a later preview build and my machine and ML are transformed.

I've never had to do this with previous version of OSX but for some reason the upgrade from SL to Lion and then to ML was not a success. The system worked but boy was it laggy.

Having clean installed ML I can say that it runs very very well and Safari really is snappier. Any performance criticisms of Lion I had are out of the window and ML really is a great update. Not revolutionary but evolutionary with some great new features that really add to the experience. In fact the only function still seems incongruous and unnecessary is Launchpad. Maybe it will make sense when Apple launches a touch screen Mac but right now I don't use it and can't think if a use for it.

Thanks for sharing. It seems that may indeed be my next recourse but I haven't had to do that since the Windoze days. This is my main work Mac so reinstalling from scratch is a huge deal (as in lost days of productivity which I cannot afford at the moment). Perhaps the time to do it is when I upgrade to ML. Your personal account is encouraging.

Even if I do install from scratch, I remain cynical. I have to question the way Lion manages RAM. It pages constantly and needlessly. I have 8 GB of RAM and it is not well utilized. I used to be able to run multiple applications with ease on Snow Leopard. I'd brag to my friends how awesomely fast and stable my Mac was. I'm no longer bragging. Instead now I'm constantly presented with the spinning beach ball. I monitor my memory like I used to way back when I used a PC. Mail apparently has a memory leak as I need to quit and restart the app periodically. Even native apps like the App Store crash randomly.

And there are irritating bugs in Launchpad and Mission Control that as of 10.7.4 have not been fixed. It sure seems like Apple is getting sloppy. Snow Leopard was a labor of love. Lion feels like a prototype rushed out the door before it was ready for primetime.

Also I don't understand the people who vote you down on this site whenever you criticize Apple. I love Apple. I spend several thousands of dollars on Apple. I think I'm entitled to speak my mind. Is this not a forum for discussion or are we all just Apple zombies?

doobybiggs
Jun 22, 2012, 12:34 PM
Many hinted towards early next month (the actual release, not just giving a date). Don't worry - it's not Duke Nukem Forever or Diablo III. :cool:

LOL! I see what you did there :p

Korovka
Jun 22, 2012, 12:36 PM
Thanks for sharing. It seems that may indeed be my next recourse but I haven't had to do that since the Windoze days. This is my main work Mac so reinstalling from scratch is a huge deal (as in lost days of productivity which I cannot afford at the moment). Perhaps the time to do it is when I upgrade to ML. Your personal account is encouraging.

Even if I do install from scratch, I remain cynical. I have to question the way Lion manages RAM. It pages constantly and needlessly. I have 8 GB of RAM and it is not well utilized. I used to be able to run multiple applications with ease on Snow Leopard. I'd brag to my friends how awesomely fast and stable my Mac was. I'm no longer bragging. Instead now I'm constantly presented with the spinning beach ball. I monitor my memory like I used to way back when I used a PC. Mail apparently has a memory leak as I need to quit and restart the app periodically. Even native apps like the App Store crash randomly.

And there are irritating bugs in Launchpad and Mission Control that as of 10.7.4 have not been fixed. It sure seems like Apple is getting sloppy. Snow Leopard was a labor of love. Lion feels like a prototype rushed out the door before it was ready for primetime.

Also I don't understand the people who vote you down on this site whenever you criticize Apple. I love Apple. I spend several thousands of dollars on Apple. I think I'm entitled to speak my mind. Is this not a forum for discussion or are we all just Apple zombies?
Agree with you. I spent more than $10000. And Apple just don't fix bugs for years. Years, man. It's really long. All Applefunboys are just fan boys, like teamgirls from school baseball team. They never file a bugreport and don't know how it is hard to deal with Apple in case of bugs. Lion is a bad OS, agree. ML much better. I hope they will fix my DP4 problem soon.

liavman
Jun 22, 2012, 12:38 PM
slow news day? ;)

cvaldes
Jun 22, 2012, 12:44 PM
Maybe this means we'll see Mountain Lion on the 1st of July?
Highly unlikely.

Each new major release of OS X is immediately preceded by a flurry of developer-only beta releases, with a decreasing number of outstanding issues before the actual release.

We have yet to see that increased frequency of beta releases for OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion. Moreover, July 1 is a Sunday and I don't ever recall Apple releasing any major piece of software on a weekend.

Only after a few weeks of rather frequent beta releases would it be reasonable to speculate on a release date.

fabian9
Jun 22, 2012, 12:45 PM
Will AirPlay Mirroring support any type of video that I'm playing on my Mac?

Yeh, it mirrors your screen, so whatever is on your screen will be shown on your Apple TV. :)

bdkennedy1
Jun 22, 2012, 01:06 PM
I'm using the latest developer build and trust me, they are going to have to work until the last second to ship this. It's got too many bugs.

doelcm82
Jun 22, 2012, 01:09 PM
Also I don't understand the people who vote you down on this site whenever you criticize Apple. I love Apple. I spend several thousands of dollars on Apple. I think I'm entitled to speak my mind. Is this not a forum for discussion or are we all just Apple zombies?
People vote you down when they think your criticism is specious, or mean-spirited, or when they think you're just whining.

If they agree with your criticism, they vote you up.

The post about how the full-screen apps work (or seemingly don't) on external monitors, has been upranked by several people.

charlituna
Jun 22, 2012, 01:13 PM
So regular employees now serve as beta testers as well?

Not exactly 'regular' employees. These are the tech support and trainers not the sales staff. Which makes sense because they will have to be able to support the version as soon as it comes out.

What I find interesting is that there's no mention of the Family Room Specialists in this group. From what I have been told they do training, workshops etc as much as the Creatives do and in particular are dealing with the beginner level classes (unlike Creatives who do the ilife, iWork and pro apps). They have just as much need to know the software right off but it looks like they aren't included.

----------

I really hope there is one Apple employee out there who can feedback the dual screening issue with fullscreen apps that is currently such a bane in Lion.

"Such a bane". to you sure. But to a mass number of folks likely not. Only a small cut of folks would ever think to try to full screen an app on only one of a multi display set up. So there probably won't be a 'fix' because it really isn't a major issue in the sense that it is something that affects the majority. Not like say if there was a problem syncing with iCloud, or Safari freezing up, or iTunes crashing.

skipbarker
Jun 22, 2012, 01:14 PM
I would be expecting a Mid-Late July release. Apple usually gives GM to devs for a couple weeks before public release.

charlituna
Jun 22, 2012, 01:16 PM
Does anyone know if 'Documents in the Cloud' supports any type of folder option,

You can already do that in Pages for iOS so I would assume that the same will be in the new Pages for Mac OS. That said it's likely an item that has be coded into the app/application just like iCloud support. So not all will have it written in

eagandale4114
Jun 22, 2012, 01:48 PM
I have no idea, but it should, after all it's basically whatever is on screen. The only problem I can think of would be DRM'd material.

Drm protected material would be displayed only on the tv. On your computers display a blank void would be shown.

ghostface147
Jun 22, 2012, 01:55 PM
One thing I useD often was textedit. Launch it quickly, make a note and that's it....in Lion. In ML, I have an additional step that doesn't really interfere, but it's no longer a quick hop in and out. I had to find something else I can hop in and out of quickly with no step except launch. There also doesn't seem to be an option to tell it to always start with a new document. Annoying.

Mr.Mo
Jun 22, 2012, 02:04 PM
It's a long shot, but can anyone confirm if ML fixed the WiFi sleep issues from Lion?

I bought a refurbished Early 2011 15" MacBook Pro with Lion installed. Anytime I would wake it up from sleep (opening/closing the Mac) the WiFi would be gone and it'd be a pain to reset. I tried to love Lion, but it was too buggy for me, especially after using Snow Leopard for over two years

It's a known issue with Apple, and it's software related. I was able to install Snow Leopard on it and haven't had problems since. I'd like to upgrade to ML but I'm still too hesitant... :(

lostngone
Jun 22, 2012, 02:05 PM
The only thing I care about is performance and stability improvements. Lion is a bloated and buggy disaster. Every day I use my Mac I regret "up" grading from Snow Leopard. The longer I use Lion the more I hate it and I've loved every previous OS X release to date. I'm really hoping Mountain Lion fixes this mess.

Can you please explain your "bloated and buggy" statement?

petsounds
Jun 22, 2012, 02:10 PM
changed my opinion.

JAT
Jun 22, 2012, 02:11 PM
"Such a bane". to you sure. But to a mass number of folks likely not. Only a small cut of folks would ever think to try to full screen an app on only one of a multi display set up. So there probably won't be a 'fix' because it really isn't a major issue in the sense that it is something that affects the majority. Not like say if there was a problem syncing with iCloud, or Safari freezing up, or iTunes crashing.
There is a time to blindly worship every step Apple makes and there is a time to not. Bug reporting is NOT. :rolleyes:

This is serious enough to be a complete deal-breaker for me. I'm planning to go from SL to ML. I use my projector and a regular monitor. I often put a movie on the TV and do something else on the monitor. Very common for HT use and even for standard office use to need 2 monitors, and then need all multiple-monitor functionality to actually work.

iDuel
Jun 22, 2012, 02:12 PM
This is good to know. It never made sense to exclude relevant Apple employees from a preview of the OS.

OT: Is Safari really getting the bump to 6.0 in ML?

Spanky Deluxe
Jun 22, 2012, 02:41 PM
How should I interpret that "could":

1) it's been done
2) someone might figure it out in the future?

It's been done. I wouldn't want to count on it until the retail version comes out though and even then updates could cause issues down the line. Core Duo/Solo processors are a lost cause as they're 32 bit processors. The bigger issue amongst the unsupported ones that DO have 64 bit processors seems to be graphics drivers. The biggest issue is I think the GMA950 graphics chip in many such models. All drivers for that have been 32 bit (as the systems they were in have always been run by Apple with 32 bit EFI and thus in 32 bit in OS X) so it doesn't work in 64 bit mode and thus Mountain Lion. I haven't looked into it too much though. The machines that I have that are affected by incompatibility are machines that just run Plex clients. One is still running Snow Leopard as I haven't got round to putting Lion on.

cammonro
Jun 22, 2012, 02:47 PM
One thing I useD often was textedit. Launch it quickly, make a note and that's it....in Lion. In ML, I have an additional step that doesn't really interfere, but it's no longer a quick hop in and out. I had to find something else I can hop in and out of quickly with no step except launch. There also doesn't seem to be an option to tell it to always start with a new document. Annoying.

You should check out Evernote. I highly recommend it. CMD-CONTROL-N gets you a new note instantly - write whatever, tag it if you want and forget it. CMD-CONTROL-E to find whatever you are looking for. Also accessible from every device you own.

I love it. It's my new brain.

mrbyu
Jun 22, 2012, 02:50 PM
I highly suggest everyone to make a clean install before claiming Lion or Mountain Lion slow or buggy. I'm using Lion on my 8 months old stock MBA 13", and my experiences so far:

1. Slow? - Never. Ever. Not even for a sec, everything is blazing fast. I don't know if it's only because the SSD... so it may be that if you use a HDD you can experience some speed differences between SL and Lion, but with SSD you shouldn't see any kind of lag.

2. Buggy? - Yes, some tiny graphical bugs may occur eventually. But 99 times from 100 it is SAFARI...

cammonro
Jun 22, 2012, 03:17 PM
I highly suggest everyone to make a clean install before claiming Lion or Mountain Lion slow or buggy. I'm using Lion on my 8 months old stock MBA 13", and my experiences so far:

1. Slow? - Never. Ever. Not even for a sec, everything is blazing fast. I don't know if it's only because the SSD... so it may be that if you use a HDD you can experience some speed differences between SL and Lion, but with SSD you shouldn't see any kind of lag.

2. Buggy? - Yes, some tiny graphical bugs may occur eventually. But 99 times from 100 it is SAFARI...

Lion apparently was written with the assumption that you have very fast disk access (i.e. he MacBook Air/Retina Pro customer base.) If you have an SSD then yes I imagine you would not see the same performance hits. Lion pages RAM to disk like crazy so those of us whose needs require HDD (as in storage capacity) it is point of great frustration. You can disable the dynamic pager via Terminal for this but it is very risky. I purposely upgraded my RAM so my Mac would not require so much disk paging but it doesn't matter. Lion doesn't give you a choice.

ixodes
Jun 22, 2012, 05:23 PM
Interesting, AFAIK this is the first time they've done this. I suppose it will help for training purposes, though Apple Store employees are aided in that ML is mostly the same as Lion, with a few refinements.

I doubt it's for training purposes.

More like an opportunity to see how many bugs remain and get some feedback from their "silent" sources.

This is a very good plan, that way once it's in the hands of the public it will be well sorted out. Provide a better impression, and create a win/win scenario.

AidenShaw
Jun 22, 2012, 07:47 PM
No. None of the Windows versions do this.

If you full-screen a WINDOW, it takes up only the screen the window is on. The other screen is available for working on something else. Mac OS X works exactly like this for WINDOWS.

But if you full-screen the entire app which is NOT a window (which in Windows would be full screen games, for example), both OS's work the same.

Maximizing a WINDOW to full-screen and full-screening an APP are 2 different things.

Agree that maximizing and full-screen are different.

Don't agree with your take on how Windows works, though.

Clearly "maximizing" a window doesn't affect the other screens. This is very handy with apps like Photoshop and VisualStudio that have "dockable" toolbars and panes. You can grab a dockable pane, and drag it to the other monitor. Very nice for getting the maximum work area for the image, and the tools bars elsewhere.

"Full screen" mode, for example in a video player - completely takes up one screen, but leaves the other screen untouched. The full-screen window has no decorations, handles or other stuff. The screen is edge-to-edge and top-to-bottom the app window. The other screen(s) are completely usable for random apps.

VMware Workstation (and probably some other apps) take it a bit further. You have the option as to whether "full-screen" applies to one screen or more than one or all screens! (a per-VM setting).

It seems to me that people want Windows' "maximize" behaviour, not what Apple has done.

jasomill
Jun 22, 2012, 08:43 PM
I've never had to do this with previous version of OSX but for some reason the upgrade from SL to Lion and then to ML was not a success. The system worked but boy was it laggy.

Generally speaking, given that "every system is a snowflake," upgrade installs are a particularly fertile source of newly-discovered bugs in prerelease OS builds.

As for "lagginess" in particular, without violating the NDA, Google (http://forums.macworld.com/index.php?/topic/146396-mountain-lion-dp4-cpu-trouble/) confirms (http://forums.macworld.com/index.php?/topic/146396-mountain-lion-dp4-cpu-trouble/) that some users were having problems with Spotlight in DP4. Perhaps these issues have been fixed? The prerelease discussion forums on Apple's developer site are probably the best place to start when troubleshooting these sorts of issues.

nateco
Jun 23, 2012, 06:18 AM
I installed dev preview 4 last night on my 2011 3.1 i5 27" iMac.

So far, no issues.

Biggest thing I've noticed, it feels a lot snappier....it's noticeable.

It's definitely more like leopard to snow leopard than a full point release.

Features are really nice and useful. I'm still getting used to dictation, in fact I'm using dictation to write this post. Dictation seems to work really well, but will take a long time to get used to, you find yourself going back to make corrections with the keyboard.

So far the best feature is mirroring to Apple TV, but I really wish the resolution toggle was easier to get to. I played an avi in fullscreen last night and it played pretty well on the TV...few lags, but nothing serious.

Notifications is much better than growl.

I can see using notes and reminders more now and the sharing stuff in safari seems useful, but I haven't figured out to get my iphone tabs to show up in safari.

acslater017
Jun 23, 2012, 12:22 PM
The only thing I care about is performance and stability improvements. Lion is a bloated and buggy disaster. Every day I use my Mac I regret "up" grading from Snow Leopard. The longer I use Lion the more I hate it and I've loved every previous OS X release to date. I'm really hoping Mountain Lion fixes this mess.

Yea, I would say that Snow Leopard was probably the peak of OS X features and performance. Lion added some neat stuff, some weird stuff (skeumorphism), and slowed down my machine.

jozeppy26
Jun 24, 2012, 01:23 AM
Yea, I would say that Snow Leopard was probably the peak of OS X features and performance. Lion added some neat stuff, some weird stuff (skeumorphism), and slowed down my machine.

I recently switched to Mac from PC and I cannot disagree with you more. I realize I never used Snow Leopard on my laptop, but I have spent quite a bit of time with it helping my girlfriend with her laptop. Full screen apps was a must needed feature in OSX. The way pre-lion OSX versions maximized windows was a hot mess. Was the green button ever useful? lol. But seriously, with Lion, OSX is insanely fluid. The only issue I can think of in regards to work flow is with Adobe CS6 and it's lack of native fullscreen support, but that's the fault of the idiots over at Adobe.

NousChristou
Jun 24, 2012, 08:00 AM
I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

nateco
Jun 24, 2012, 09:55 AM
I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

Thanks for the enlightenment!


Lion was a cheap upgrade, as was snow leopard.

Last OS I can think of that was full prices was leopard.

!° V °!
Jun 24, 2012, 10:23 AM
Yea, I would say that Snow Leopard was probably the peak of OS X features and performance. Lion added some neat stuff, some weird stuff (skeumorphism), and slowed down my machine.

Similar to Intel Tick and Tock scheme, Apple has had the same with every release of Mac OS 10. Features with one release and refinements, speed and various other improvements the following release.

Been using Mac OS 10 since its X.0 release and its quite clear with following releases.

I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.


The reason for the price drop for Mac OS 10, is due to wider adoption from previous Mac OS 10 versions. It keeps the developers on the recent two releases and allows Apple not waste resources on previous Mac OS versions. Thus allowing more man-power for present and future releases to develop Mac OS and iOS. Apple has to support its end-users and developers and having multiple versions of an OS wastes resources on both ends. By providing Mac OS at an even affordable price, we all win. Since it forces developers to update they apps and use newer technology and feature sets.

Apple makes it money mainly on hardware, I am sure if they wanted they could have provided Mac OS Mountain Lion for 9.99 or even free similar to iOS, however it has to account for development and support to some degree.


Agree that maximizing and full-screen are different.

Don't agree with your take on how Windows works, though.

Clearly "maximizing" a window doesn't affect the other screens. This is very handy with apps like Photoshop and VisualStudio that have "dockable" toolbars and panes. You can grab a dockable pane, and drag it to the other monitor. Very nice for getting the maximum work area for the image, and the tools bars elsewhere.

"Full screen" mode, for example in a video player - completely takes up one screen, but leaves the other screen untouched. The full-screen window has no decorations, handles or other stuff. The screen is edge-to-edge and top-to-bottom the app window. The other screen(s) are completely usable for random apps.

VMware Workstation (and probably some other apps) take it a bit further. You have the option as to whether "full-screen" applies to one screen or more than one or all screens! (a per-VM setting).

It seems to me that people want Windows' "maximize" behaviour, not what Apple has done.

I like all variations of the max and full screen for Windows and Mac OS. People complain because they are accustomed to one version and prefer to not give another a chance, since it takes sometime to get accustomed to the new method. People love to complain rather than adapt, the issue mentioned is not a deal breaker. Adapt, I do not prefer one over the other, it is how the OS is designed.

mojothemonkey
Jun 24, 2012, 08:09 PM
I'm just sick of these minor "feature" improvements being touted as new OS releases. I never really see anything that is worthy of calling the OS by a new name. Why not just have a Mac OS feature store and allow people to select and install/uninstall features as they see fit, and just let Apple make new features to be added to your OS. (like a Chrome browser extension, or something similar)

At most, these features (for technology compatibility, like to enable support for a new USB standard or to have better compatibility with a cloud feature) are similar to a microsoft OS "Service Pack" release. And MS doesnt charge for those, even if Apple decided to sell theirs for less money these days.

Blah. I fail to see any hype around these releases. Anyone who is "amazed" or otherwise impressed with these "new features" really hasn't been around the tech block. I love a lot about Apple, but this is getting ridiculous.

----------

I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

It's because you're paying for doo-dads and add-ons that could have just been downloadable applications, not a re-coded OS.

AidenShaw
Jun 24, 2012, 08:36 PM
I am totally new to the Mac OS so bear with me. On the main Apple site and other tech places, I see that it is going to be $19.99. Is this just a beta tester price, or is it the actual retail price? I don't get it with the cost having been so high in the past.

Thanks for the enlightenment!

It's because you're paying for doo-dads and add-ons that could have just been downloadable applications, not a re-coded OS.

And it's also because you've paid far above the average price of a comparable PC to get that half-eaten apple logo on it - so that you've already paid a good sum for the full release of the OS.

It's a false economy to compare Apple OSX upgrade prices to other OSes....

nateco
Jun 24, 2012, 09:43 PM
It's a long shot, but can anyone confirm if ML fixed the WiFi sleep issues from Lion?

I bought a refurbished Early 2011 15" MacBook Pro with Lion installed. Anytime I would wake it up from sleep (opening/closing the Mac) the WiFi would be gone and it'd be a pain to reset. I tried to love Lion, but it was too buggy for me, especially after using Snow Leopard for over two years

It's a known issue with Apple, and it's software related. I was able to install Snow Leopard on it and haven't had problems since. I'd like to upgrade to ML but I'm still too hesitant... :(



So far, so good.

Maury
Jun 25, 2012, 08:07 AM
It's been done. I wouldn't want to count on it until the retail version comes out though and even then updates could cause issues down the line..

Ok, this is very useful, thanks Spanky. I'll hold onto the Pro for a bit longer...

----------


It's a false economy to compare Apple OSX upgrade prices to other OSes....

I'm not convinced of this.

In the last 15 years software development has become *much* easier due to improved tools, faster computers, better networking, better source control, and the internet's ability to answer any question instantly.

During that time the cost of hardware development has not changed much. CAD/CAE and the internet have helped, and *production* has become much easier, but the design, engineering and testing hasn't changed much at all.

The PC industry has spent a lot of money squeezing every penny out of the production line, and now we all expect to pay nothing for a PC. In reality we've done a much better job on the software side, but for some reason we still expect to pay a lot of money for programs (say Office).

So there's that.

But there's also this... Apple spends a lot of money to develop a new machine that gets them incremental sales. They likely spend more on the OS, but that runs on all of their machines. For that reason alone the OS should be less expensive than the hardware.

Mr.Mo
Jun 25, 2012, 02:32 PM
So far, so good.

Thanks!

I have a spare drive so I might do a clean install and give it a shot. $20 to upgrade even from Snow Leopard is a good deal. Now I just have to research the battery life of ML (Snow Leopard definitely seems to be more battery-efficient than Lion to me).