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MacRumors
Jun 25, 2012, 08:47 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/25/next-generation-iphone-prototypes-reportedly-support-nfc-for-mobile-payments/)


9to5Mac reports (http://9to5mac.com/2012/06/25/new-iphone-prototypes-have-nfc-chips-and-antenna/) that it has reanalyzed the previously-obtained hardware code dump for Apple's next-generation iPhone prototypes and discovered that the code makes reference to hardware components supporting near field communication (NFC) capabilities.We've previously been able to pull data from PreEVT iPhone 5,1 and iPhone 5,2 prototypes codenamed N41AP (5,1) and N42AP (5,2), which leads us to believe that the new iPhone will have a bigger 1136×640 display. We also detailed a lot of the hardware here but forgot one very important little bit. Further investigation into this hardware code dump leads us to believe that these iPhones also have Near Field Communication (NFC) controllers directly connected to the power management unit (PMU).NFC enables short-range wireless communication between devices and chip readers, with the most high-profile deployment of the technology being for contact-less payment systems.

Rumors of NFC support for the iPhone have been circulating for some time, with The New York Times giving a substantial boost (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/03/21/more-claims-of-nfc-capabilities-in-coming-iteration-of-iphone/) to the discussion back in March 2011 with its claims that the technology would be available in a "coming iteration of the Apple iPhone - although not necessarily the next one". NFC did not arrive in the iPhone 4S released last October, and thus expectations for the 2012 iPhone and NFC have been heightened.

Apple did not directly address the topic of NFC in iOS 6 at its Worldwide Developers Conference earlier this month, but the company did announce a new Passbook digital wallet app (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/11/apple-announces-ios-6-with-siri-improvements-facebook-integration-new-maps-app-passbook-for-fall-release/) which strongly suggests that company is moving toward offering NFC services. As announced, Passbook serves as a time- and location-aware app (http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/#passbook) for storing digital tickets, coupons, loyalty cards, and more.Your boarding passes, movie tickets, retail coupons, loyalty cards, and more are now all in one place. With Passbook, you can scan your iPhone or iPod touch to check in for a flight, get into a movie, and redeem a coupon. You can also see when your coupons expire, where your concert seats are, and the balance left on that all-important coffee bar card. Wake your iPhone or iPod touch, and passes appear on your Lock screen at the appropriate time and place -- like when you reach the airport or walk into the store to redeem your gift card or coupon. And if your gate changes after you've checked in for your flight, Passbook will even alert you to make sure you're not relaxing in the wrong terminal.http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/passbook_screenshots.jpg


Adding an NFC component to Passbook would be a natural step to eliminate the need to physically scan barcodes on the iPhone's screen, allowing users to simply wave their devices near readers to activate Passbook items.

Article Link: Next-Generation iPhone Prototypes Reportedly Support NFC for Mobile Payments (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/25/next-generation-iphone-prototypes-reportedly-support-nfc-for-mobile-payments/)



shurcooL
Jun 25, 2012, 08:48 AM
Hope so.

Z400Racer37
Jun 25, 2012, 08:48 AM
Nfc!!! Whooo!!!! Can't wait for Apple Wallet!!

LimeiBook86
Jun 25, 2012, 08:49 AM
Now this is getting interesting! And Passbook seems suddenly very useful. :)

basesloaded190
Jun 25, 2012, 08:49 AM
Seems almost a given with the introduction of Passbook.

PlaceofDis
Jun 25, 2012, 08:53 AM
wasn't the same thing said about the iPhone 4S? although it does seem to be more likely given the inclusion of Passbook, but i wouldn't hold out hope just yet because you never know with apple.

sshambles
Jun 25, 2012, 08:53 AM
Liking the sounds of this. Goodness knows what will happen if you run out of battery.... :confused:

daneoni
Jun 25, 2012, 08:56 AM
Shocker! :rolleyes:

Sensation
Jun 25, 2012, 08:57 AM
Another thing stolen from Google :confused: Apple may as well just try and buy Google considering all the recent things they take from them.

devilbond
Jun 25, 2012, 08:57 AM
Whoopty doo. Where's my iMac? :p

basesloaded190
Jun 25, 2012, 08:58 AM
Another thing stolen from Google :confused: Apple may as well just try and buy Google considering all the recent things they take from them.

They stole NFC from Google?

CrAkD
Jun 25, 2012, 08:59 AM
Another thing stolen from Google :confused: Apple may as well just try and buy Google considering all the recent things they take from them.

Android stole their entire existence from apple. NFC has been around in other countries way before google wallet. Know your facts.

FSMBP
Jun 25, 2012, 09:00 AM
Liking the sounds of this. Goodness knows what will happen if you run out of battery.... :confused:

Not to mention that if you lose your iPhone, you just lost your money temporarily (for that night or however long until you get a new one & restore).

jasonxneo
Jun 25, 2012, 09:00 AM
Is it just me, or do those iphones in the picture look a little different? :D

bushido
Jun 25, 2012, 09:00 AM
pretty obvs, they will probably announce the NFC chip along some partnerships like starbucks at the new iPhone keynote

bbeagle
Jun 25, 2012, 09:01 AM
Nfc!!! Whooo!!!!

I prefer the AFC.

http://itsonlybullets.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/afc.gif

sshambles
Jun 25, 2012, 09:02 AM
Nokia had the first NFC phone in '06.
(Phillips, Sony and Nokia we're all part of the NFC forum however.)

nfl46
Jun 25, 2012, 09:02 AM
Yeah, I figured it. I said it probably would when they introduced Passports. It all makes sense now.

OzPeter
Jun 25, 2012, 09:02 AM
(slightly off topic) I can't the see the TSA allowing Passbook for boarding passes at airports. It would totally disrupt their procedure of stamping and/or writing on the physical boarding pass for their own reasons.

Not that I am against disrupting the TSA :D

Although it's interesting that the only boarding pass shown is from Amtrak - who told the TSA's VIPR teams to GTFO of train stations.

nfl46
Jun 25, 2012, 09:03 AM
Is it just me, or do those iphones in the picture look a little different? :D
Its a 3.5" iPhone 4S. lol.

bushido
Jun 25, 2012, 09:03 AM
(slightly off topic) I can't the see the TSA allowing Passbook for boarding passes at airports. It would totally disrupt their procedure of stamping and/or writing on the physical boarding pass for their own reasons.

Not that I am against disrupting the TSA :D

you can already use your phone as a boarding card to check in. doesnt even require NFC

lixuelai
Jun 25, 2012, 09:03 AM
Another thing stolen from Google :confused: Apple may as well just try and buy Google considering all the recent things they take from them.

Considering that Android came out in Sept 2008 and I remember seeing vending machines that allowed payment via cellphones in Japan well before that, I don't think Apple stole anything from Google...

Bezetos
Jun 25, 2012, 09:05 AM
They stole NFC from Google?

Well nobody can say that Apple stole NFC from Google, but Google "did it first" (as in, phone wallet) and Apple will be doing it now.

Which is a good thing.

This is not about "stealing", this is about driving technology forward, something that both Android and iPhone users should understand. Unfortunately Apple is not helping by frequently claiming "how everyone is copying from them", but that's just a narcissistic statement from a narcissistic company, we got loads of those.

So yeah, Google did it first like a lot of things that Apple is introducing lately, but who cares - it's good that Apple is introducing those features too. Good ideas should be promoted, not avoided for the sake of competition.

EDIT: WOW, -13 points, this proves that there's a lot off blindly devoted Apple fanboys here... I wrote a bit of truth that actually DEFENDS Apple and I get downvoted, way to go guys, give yourself a round of applause.

jclardy
Jun 25, 2012, 09:05 AM
That would make sense, as I don't see Apple adding Passbook just for starbucks gift cards and airline tickets.

AbyssImpact
Jun 25, 2012, 09:08 AM
Nfc!!! Whooo!!!! Can't wait for Apple Wallet!!
I think Google patented that.

Z400Racer37
Jun 25, 2012, 09:08 AM
Another thing stolen from Google :confused: Apple may as well just try and buy Google considering all the recent things they take from them.

yup. they came up with android all on their own. it doesn't even really resemble iOS at all:rolleyes:

Sensation
Jun 25, 2012, 09:10 AM
They stole NFC from Google?

The whole fact of using it in smartphones and the Google Wallet.

GunZi
Jun 25, 2012, 09:12 AM
i just wanted to let everyone know that: Flight Control Rocket is free today :D

Orlandoech.com
Jun 25, 2012, 09:13 AM
I prefer the AFC.

Image (http://itsonlybullets.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/afc.gif)

Im the only one who gets this because people are too caught up being angry over someone saying Apple stole NFC from Google.

Crispy Duck
Jun 25, 2012, 09:15 AM
iCash
iPay
iWallet
iMoney....

?

Mackan
Jun 25, 2012, 09:15 AM
Wonder what feature they will make only work on iPhone 5, so people have to upgrade. Can it be this NFC? Probably.

DisMyMac
Jun 25, 2012, 09:17 AM
iCash
iPay
iWallet
iMoney....

?

iPhone + NFC = Beast mark in the palm.

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 25, 2012, 09:17 AM
(slightly off topic) I can't the see the TSA allowing Passbook for boarding passes at airports. It would totally disrupt their procedure of stamping and/or writing on the physical boarding pass for their own reasons.

Not that I am against disrupting the TSA :D

I've gone through TSA a couple times using mobile boarding passes (United app) on my iPhone when boarding United Airlines. It's been around (http://www.zdnet.com/blog/gadgetreviews/free-united-airlines-app-turns-ios-devices-into-mobile-boarding-passes/26550) for quite a while.

nathanlloyd
Jun 25, 2012, 09:17 AM
iCash
iPay
iWallet
iMoney....

?

Passbook.

nws0291
Jun 25, 2012, 09:19 AM
The whole fact of using it in smartphones and the Google Wallet.

No. Google was not the first.

Dionte
Jun 25, 2012, 09:19 AM
Nfc with Passbook would give the new iPhone that token feature you can't get on previous models, without it I would probably never use Passbook.

iRobby
Jun 25, 2012, 09:19 AM
(slightly off topic) I can't the see the TSA allowing Passbook for boarding passes at airports. It would totally disrupt their procedure of stamping and/or writing on the physical boarding pass for their own reasons.

Not that I am against disrupting the TSA :D

Although it's interesting that the only boarding pass shown is from Amtrak - who told the TSA's VIPR teams to GTFO of train stations.

Airline tech chief expects 2012 iPhone with NFC to dominate e-tickets

By Sam Oliver Apple Insider
Monday, June 25, 2012 @ 08:13 AM

Apple's Passbook application in iOS 6 will likely be enhanced with digital wallet and ticketing services thanks to a near-field communications chip in the company's next-generation iPhone, according to an executive with an airline information technology company.

Jim Peters, the chief technology officer at SITA, a company that specializes in IT and telecommunication services for the airline industry, spoke last Thursday at the annual Air Transport IT Summit in Brussels, Belgium, according to IDG News Service. He believes NFC technology for services like e-wallets and digital airline ticketing will be widespread by the end of this year, thanks largely to the inclusion of an NFC chip in Apple's next iPhone.

Peters said that NFC adoption up until now has been held back because network operators and smartphone makers have been debating who will take a cut of NFC transactions. Wireless providers and companies like Google and Research in Motion haven't been thinking about the user, he said.

"Who is thinking of the user? Apple," he said. "They don't argue about it with anybody. They came out with Passbook last week, which is an electronic wallet that they are going to start putting stuff on."

The SITA CTO expects that Apple will "sneak up on the industry" by offering digital wallet and ticketing support with its Passbook application and the company's sixth-generation iPhone.

"They are going to get people using it (the Passbook application) and then all of a sudden they will allow credit cards to be used in there, on the next iPhone, which will include NFC," Peters said.

SITA is currently experimenting with NFC technology that will allow passengers to access the car park and business lounges at the airport in Toulouse, France, using NFC technology. He expects the next step will be secure boarding passes that rely on wireless NFC technology for secure authentication, and he thinks that shift will come about because of Apple.

"You need to get ready, this is coming. This is going to happen," he told airline professionals at the summit. "By the end of the year the majority of smartphones that you go and buy will have NFC on them. If in October the next iPhone comes out and it has NFC on it, it's game over."

Passbook was highlighted as one of the hallmark features of iOS 6 by Apple at its annual Worldwide Developers Conference earlier this month. The software is a new native application that will come built in to the next-generation mobile operating system when it launches this fall.

Passbook features a card-like interface that presents users' personal items. In one example provided by Apple, a user might have their boarding pass saved with Passbook, and if the boarding gate for their flight changes, the ticket would be updated to reflect this and the user would be sent a notification.

Passbook will also feature geolocation technology that will automatically pull up the appropriate card for a user based on their location. In one example, a user's Starbucks store card would show up when they visit the coffee chain.

Apple has been rumored for years to include NFC technology in a future iPhone, but to date no iPhone models have included an integrated NFC chip. Competing handsets, like Google's Nexus S, have included NFC chips, but e-wallet payments have yet to take off with services like Google Wallet.

Sensation
Jun 25, 2012, 09:19 AM
iCash
iPay
iWallet
iMoney....

?

May as well just copy the Google Wallet name.

bbeagle
Jun 25, 2012, 09:20 AM
Im the only one who gets this because people are too caught up being angry over someone saying Apple stole NFC from Google.

I love it.

NFC is simply a standard for accepting payments. It has nothing to do with Google.

Google WALLET is something that Google created to accept payments over a smartphone using NFC. Apple Passport is Apple's version of this concept. They are different things with different implementations which both use NFC under the covers.

This is as ridiculous as saying that Apple added a gyroscope to their phone and Google copied, or Android added a camera to their phone and Apple copied. Seriously!

I guess if one phone comes out with the latest-and-greatest USB 4.0 port or something, no other phone can have it, too, right?

D.T.
Jun 25, 2012, 09:25 AM
Like other folks have posted, I don’t think this comes as any surprise, assuming Apple can source power friendly support chips, I can’t imagine them not implementing NFC (especially in conjunction with the new Passbook feature). LTE falls into the same category, won’t be a surprise, it’s all in the chip availability to meet power/battery life requirements.

The processor-of-the-week type upgrades are way less interesting to me in the mobile space than trying to create new usage models that get wide spread adoption.

Not to mention that if you lose your iPhone, you just lost your money temporarily (for that night or however long until you get a new one & restore).

Well, I always carry a wallet for ID, insurance, etc., so I’m sure I’ll keep some backup cards even if this becomes a common payment method. :)

I prefer the AFC.


Nice. (Go Steelers!)

hamidb83
Jun 25, 2012, 09:27 AM
I guess it was completely obvious that they have plans for passbook. Since apple likes to provide complete solutions, the don't just include NFC chip in their phone they provide the software and backend to support it. Like Front Facing Camera---> FaceTime; We will definitely see NFC on the next iPhone with deept integration with passbook. And it is not just for payments, it is for all the other things passbook provide. I won't be suprised if apple has already talked to airlines , starbucks, and ... to provide interface for Apple's NFC. Can't wait to see iPhone 5 or "the new iPhone" or whatever it is called.

FSMBP
Jun 25, 2012, 09:28 AM
Like other folks have posted, I don’t think this comes as any surprise, assuming Apple can source power friendly support chips, I can’t imagine them not implementing NFC (especially in conjunction with the new Passbook feature). LTE falls into the same category, won’t be a surprise, it’s all in the chip availability to meet power/battery life requirements.

The processor-of-the-week type upgrades are way less interesting to me in the mobile space than trying to create new usage models that get wide spread adoption.



Well, I always carry a wallet for ID, insurance, etc., so I’m sure I’ll keep some backup cards even if this becomes a common payment method. :)



Nice. (Go Steelers!)

That's kinda my feeling too. If I'm carrying all that stuff in a wallet, I don't see PassBook as a great feature for myself. I enjoy all-in-one concepts but at some point, it's safer/smarter to have separate things.

metsjetsfan
Jun 25, 2012, 09:29 AM
I wonder if NFC and screen size/factor will be the two major hardware features added. they will obviously improve the camera and other stuff but I think in terms of hardware this is what we should expect. I think that is definitely more than enough to get the campers waiting in line.

Caliber26
Jun 25, 2012, 09:31 AM
As eager and willing as I am to run out and buy the next iPhone, and as much as I love technology, this type of thing still scares me when I think of where it'll probably lead to. I'm sure it won't be too long before these chips eventually work themselves into our bodies or are required by law, in the holy name of national security. Passport, driver license, health and vehicle insurance info, bank/credit accounts, medical records... all "conveniently" stored in one little chip, secured somewhere under your skin. It's coming. :rolleyes:

iRobby
Jun 25, 2012, 09:32 AM
I wonder if NFC and screen size/factor will be the two major hardware features added. they will obviously improve the camera and other stuff but I think in terms of hardware this is what we should expect. I think that is definitely more than enough to get the campers waiting in line.

But everyone on this forum has been saying Apple doesn't innovate anymore since Steve Jobs died

Ciclismo
Jun 25, 2012, 09:33 AM
(slightly off topic) I can't the see the TSA allowing Passbook for boarding passes at airports. It would totally disrupt their procedure of stamping and/or writing on the physical boarding pass for their own reasons.

Not that I am against disrupting the TSA :D

Although it's interesting that the only boarding pass shown is from Amtrak - who told the TSA's VIPR teams to GTFO of train stations.

Fortunately we can already use our smart-phones for boarding here in Europe, so this won't make too much of a difference. But I do hope that NFC starts getting popular with vending machine operators, because I seldom have enough small change on me.

JangoFett124
Jun 25, 2012, 09:34 AM
Not to mention that if you lose your iPhone, you just lost your money temporarily (for that night or however long until you get a new one & restore).

If I lose my wallet, I lost my money and credit cards, have to deal with identity theft, etc. If I lose my phone, I have it password-protected so my money and credit cards are safe. Either way I lose access to my money, etc; but when I lose my phone the money's not gone for good.

quietstormSD
Jun 25, 2012, 09:35 AM
Honestly I'm not too crazy about the whole NFC thing. I think scanning of the barcode from the phone screen is good enough (or even great, I use it often at Starbucks, I wish other apps implemented this feature for retailers that I visit on a regular basis). I guess I gotta see NFC working in the real world and test it out myself. The technology has been around for a while. I wonder why now phone manufacturers are bringing this to the USA, if it's that great.

Ciclismo
Jun 25, 2012, 09:36 AM
Well nobody can say that Apple stole NFC from Google, but Google "did it first" (as in, phone wallet) and Apple will be doing it now.

Which is a good thing.

This is not about "stealing", this is about driving technology forward, something that both Android and iPhone users should understand. Unfortunately Apple is not helping by frequently claiming "how everyone is copying from them", but that's just a narcissistic statement from a narcissistic company, we got loads of those.

So yeah, Google did it first like a lot of things that Apple is introducing lately, but who cares - it's good that Apple is introducing those features too. Good ideas should be promoted, not avoided for the sake of competition.

I'm pretty sure the Japanese (http://www.idtechex.com/research/articles/rfid_in_japan_00000728.asp) beat Google to it.

D.T.
Jun 25, 2012, 09:37 AM
I wonder if NFC and screen size/factor will be the two major hardware features added. they will obviously improve the camera and other stuff but I think in terms of hardware this is what we should expect. I think that is definitely more than enough to get the campers waiting in line.

I believe we’ll see some smaller, incremental improvements with the CPU/GPU, and both cameras. The major hardware updates will be NFC, LTE and the new display (plus the change in the physical design). Wrap all that up with IOS6 (with the new maps, Passbook, all the tweaks to Siri) and that’s what we’ll see in October.

I suspect Apple will be making a huge effort to establish partnerships so they can hit the ground running with PB+NCF. A few major department stores, airlines, some “boutique” type stores like Starbucks, Apple stores of course. They love the angle of “...and you can do this _now_” vs. here’s a neat new feature, but you can’t really use it.

neilw
Jun 25, 2012, 09:38 AM
This will be the event that causes NFC to go mainstream. Retailers who were taking a "wait and see" approach will dive in head first once it's in the iPhone.

iPhone 5 launch is going to be verrrry interesting.

paradox00
Jun 25, 2012, 09:38 AM
The whole fact of using it in smartphones and the Google Wallet.

Also, not the first implementation.

Apple's not about doing things first, they're about doing things right. Hopefully they do that here.

adder7712
Jun 25, 2012, 09:40 AM
yup. they came up with android all on their own. it doesn't even really resemble iOS at all:rolleyes:

Because it doesn't.

ChrisTX
Jun 25, 2012, 09:42 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't think NFC is all that big of a deal? Other handsets have had this already yet it doesn't seem to be in place anywhere.

Shrink
Jun 25, 2012, 09:42 AM
Another thing stolen from Google :confused: Apple may as well just try and buy Google considering all the recent things they take from them.

I'm trying to understand the attitude expressed in the above quote.

It seems to say that if something is not TOTALLY original (and almost nothing really is), it should be criticized.

That a function, app, etc. may be very useful, efficient, fun, etc is not important. All that matters is that it it TOTALLY original.

Forgive my simpleminded naiveté, but this seems to me to be...how shall I say this politely, silly crap. Short of stealing intellectual property (please, let's not open that can of worms here!), there fact that some other company used NFC first does not render it useless or even embarrassing to employ it if it is useful.

But, then, I'm not sophisticated enough to denigrate the usefulness of a function, app, etc...just a simple mind who uses stuff made (legitimately) available.

:rolleyes: ;)

Bezetos
Jun 25, 2012, 09:43 AM
I'm pretty sure the Japanese (http://www.idtechex.com/research/articles/rfid_in_japan_00000728.asp) beat Google to it.That's RFID, we're talking about standardised NFC payments.

AustinIllini
Jun 25, 2012, 09:45 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't think NFC is all that big of a deal? Other handsets have had this already yet it doesn't seem to be in place anywhere.

I think it's agreed among people here that Apple will tip the scales. It's not a big deal now, but it will be.

Caliber26
Jun 25, 2012, 09:45 AM
I believe we’ll see some smaller, incremental improvements with the CPU/GPU, and both cameras. The major hardware updates will be NFC, LTE and the new display (plus the change in the physical design). Wrap all that up with IOS6 (with the new maps, Passbook, all the tweaks to Siri) and that’s what we’ll see in October.

I suspect Apple will be making a huge effort to establish partnerships so they can hit the ground running with PB+NCF. A few major department stores, airlines, some “boutique” type stores like Starbucks, Apple stores of course. They love the angle of “...and you can do this _now_” vs. here’s a neat new feature, but you can’t really use it.

You hit the nail on the head. That's one of the many things I love about Apple.

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 25, 2012, 09:46 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't think NFC is all that big of a deal? Other handsets have had this already yet it doesn't seem to be in place anywhere.

That's like saying (before the iPhone was introduced in 2007) that having a smartphone isn't all that big of a deal because most people didn't have it. It's all about implementation.

617arg
Jun 25, 2012, 09:46 AM
iPhone + NFC = Beast mark in the palm.

haha - but it's so convenient!

Orlandoech.com
Jun 25, 2012, 09:46 AM
Nice. (Go Steelers!)

You mean go Bronco's. (I hate the Donkies FYI).

JHankwitz
Jun 25, 2012, 09:47 AM
Adding an NFC component to Passbook would be a natural step to eliminate the need to physically scan barcodes on the iPhone's screen, allowing users to simply wave their devices near readers to activate Passbook items.

I hope it will take a bit more than a simple wave to activate. They've already stopped putting circuitry in credit cards because a simple pass-by would activate and capture it.

lixuelai
Jun 25, 2012, 09:48 AM
That's RFID, we're talking about standardised NFC payments.

The Japanese uses this technology called Felicity Card aka Felica. You see it in other parts of Asia as well but the Japanese put it into phones. NFC is based on Felica and similar standards and adds improvements such as 2 way communication. In terms of actual use case aka mobile payments they are near identical.

Caliber26
Jun 25, 2012, 09:50 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't think NFC is all that big of a deal? Other handsets have had this already yet it doesn't seem to be in place anywhere.

Crazy as it sounds, I'm sure the inclusion of it on the next iPhone will change that. Everyone's always ready to jump on the iPhone-compatibility bandwagon. There's no way businesses will want to lose out on something like that.

----------

haha - but it's so convenient!

And that is exactly what the selling points will be: convenience and security. You gotta make it appealing somehow, right?

AppleGuesser
Jun 25, 2012, 09:51 AM
This will be the event that causes NFC to go mainstream. Retailers who were taking a "wait and see" approach will dive in head first once it's in the iPhone.

iPhone 5 launch is going to be verrrry interesting.

Indeed. NFC isnt new at all. However, it isnt mainstream at all either :D Apple will make it very mainstream if they add NFC and watch every major chain add the ability to use NFC :):apple:

Confuzzzed
Jun 25, 2012, 09:51 AM
NFC together with passbook in iOS 6 will finally unburden our trouser pockets of unsightly bulges!!:cool:

deftdrummer
Jun 25, 2012, 09:52 AM
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I am not stoked about NFC what so ever.

I have a bank, I get cash. I have a bank card and I can use that.

I am not interested in losing my phone AND wallet. A little worried about "grabbing" these signals out of the air and potential theft. I am least happy about what battery implications this & a bigger screen will bring.

Thanks but I'll keep using cash and my wallet can be full of credit cards.

dashiel
Jun 25, 2012, 09:53 AM
N/M someone else beat me to the punch

rjtyork
Jun 25, 2012, 09:53 AM
Hopefully this will be enough motivation for my family members to stop losing their iPhones. I'm getting sick of them borrowing mine all the time because they can't seem to remember where they left theirs. Thank god for find my iPhone. And will Costco have a pass in passbook that we can use? :)

smellalot
Jun 25, 2012, 09:54 AM
Thirty percent of all payments go to Apple ;)

tiguk
Jun 25, 2012, 09:54 AM
I'm currently overseeing the largest NFC rollout in Europe (30,000 terminals)

Barclaycard and Visa are putting a LOT of money behind NFC, and many retailers are implementing the technology on the back of that. But it's not taken off yet as the market is too fragmented with everyone wanting a slice of the cake...

Like many things Apple does, it goes into a market/technology sector and refines the use case so it becomes mainstream. It worries less about the immediate commercial opportunity (a la Google Wallet) and plays the long game.

adamryan1983
Jun 25, 2012, 09:56 AM
Is it just me, or do those iphones in the picture look a little different? :D

It's just you.

notabadname
Jun 25, 2012, 09:57 AM
Very cool!

metsjetsfan
Jun 25, 2012, 09:57 AM
Thirty percent of all payments go to Apple ;)

Haha i know its a joke but if that did happen all costs would be passed on to us the consumer.

neilw
Jun 25, 2012, 09:57 AM
Thirty percent of all payments go to Apple ;)

Heh. Obviously (?), Apple will not take a 30% cut, but even if they take a 1% (or whatever) processing fee using their own payment processing system, you're looking at a potentially *huge* new revenue stream for Apple.

adildacoolset
Jun 25, 2012, 09:57 AM
Is it just me, or do those iphones in the picture look a little different? :D

Its just you

dashiel
Jun 25, 2012, 09:58 AM
If you read through the developer docs you can tell Passbook is way bigger than what we saw in the keynote.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I am not stoked about NFC what so ever.

I have a bank, I get cash. I have a bank card and I can use that.

I am not interested in losing my phone AND wallet. A little worried about "grabbing" these signals out of the air and potential theft. I am least happy about what battery implications this & a bigger screen will bring.

Thanks but I'll keep using cash and my wallet can be full of credit cards.

You probably are. Personally I want everything on my phone, car unlock/ignition, door unlock, driver’s license, passport the whole nine yards. When I check in to a hotel I want my key card loaded on to my phone. If I do lose my phone I can quickly and easily cancel all access to my credit cards, identity, car, home, etc…

tiguk
Jun 25, 2012, 10:01 AM
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I am not stoked about NFC what so ever.

I have a bank, I get cash. I have a bank card and I can use that.

I am not interested in losing my phone AND wallet. A little worried about "grabbing" these signals out of the air and potential theft. I am least happy about what battery implications this & a bigger screen will bring.

Thanks but I'll keep using cash and my wallet can be full of credit cards.

There's a real fear about NFC as a technology. I'm a bit surprised to see it so frequently raised in a tech forum such as this, but for some reason there's a mistrust of paying for items using your phone like this.

Like the loss of credit cards, banks underwrite your any cash losses incurred through loss of an NFC card OR device, so there's really nothing to fear. In fact, you're better off than potentially losing the cash in your pocket.

And it's got to be better than losing your wallet?

MACdaddy859
Jun 25, 2012, 10:01 AM
Whaaat!!! No Waaaayyy dude?!?! Apple created magic once again!!! -_-

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 25, 2012, 10:05 AM
A little worried about "grabbing" these signals out of the air and potential theft.

Yet you're not worried about skimming (which can happen anywhere) when you use your bank/credit cards?

DaffyDuck
Jun 25, 2012, 10:05 AM
As eager and willing as I am to run out and buy the next iPhone, and as much as I love technology, this type of thing still scares me when I think of where it'll probably lead to. I'm sure it won't be too long before these chips eventually work themselves into our bodies or are required by law, in the holy name of national security. Passport, driver license, health and vehicle insurance info, bank/credit accounts, medical records... all "conveniently" stored in one little chip, secured somewhere under your skin. It's coming. :rolleyes:

You forgot to explain why this is scary.

ineedamac
Jun 25, 2012, 10:06 AM
(slightly off topic) I can't the see the TSA allowing Passbook for boarding passes at airports. It would totally disrupt their procedure of stamping and/or writing on the physical boarding pass for their own reasons.

Not that I am against disrupting the TSA :D

Although it's interesting that the only boarding pass shown is from Amtrak - who told the TSA's VIPR teams to GTFO of train stations.

I use a mobile boarding pass from US Airways weekly. TSA has a scanner that displays my information from the mobile boarding pass and compares that to my id I hand them.

Mad-B-One
Jun 25, 2012, 10:08 AM
..data mining, here I come! Now, Apple will know where, when, and how we spend our money, post adds accordingly and slowly shift our spending the way they can get a cut on it. No, just kidding! Apple doesn't need our money after we payed a little short of $1k for their newest device! :D

Sensation
Jun 25, 2012, 10:10 AM
Whaaat!!! No Waaaayyy dude?!?! Apple created magic once again!!! -_-

*Stole From Google

surma884
Jun 25, 2012, 10:10 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't think NFC is all that big of a deal? Other handsets have had this already yet it doesn't seem to be in place anywhere.

That's because Google (or anyone else) hasn't setup the ecosystem for it. Apple is more likely to do it I think. It's like iTunes. Apple went to the music industry and got them to sell their music on iTunes.

aristotle
Jun 25, 2012, 10:17 AM
*Sigh*. You really don't want a cashless society. Trust me. Cash provides some anonymity and you can easily lend it or give it away.

I wish I could get into details but let us just say that I have been in the information analysis business for over a decade.

I like cash. I use cash whenever possible. I have nothing to hide but at the same time, I like freedom.

pgiguere1
Jun 25, 2012, 10:18 AM
For anyone who cares about those details:

- The NFC forum was founded by Nokia, Philips and Sony in 2004 and set the specifications for the NFC standard.

- The first phone with NFC was the Nokia 6131, released in 2007.

- Peer-to-Peer standards to transfer contact, URL, initiate Bluetooth, etc. were also released by the NFC forum (Nokia, Philips, Sony) in 2009.

a0me
Jun 25, 2012, 10:20 AM
Another thing stolen from Google :confused: Apple may as well just try and buy Google considering all the recent things they take from them.
Japanese feature phones have NFC and e-Wallet functionality since 2004.
They weren't invented by Google.

AustinIllini
Jun 25, 2012, 10:21 AM
I like cash. I use cash whenever possible. I have nothing to hide but at the same time, I like freedom.

I don't think you really have to worry about that. There are still places that don't take credit cards, and surely there will be places that don't take NFC in the future. In some ways, you're right: Cash is king.

Small White Car
Jun 25, 2012, 10:23 AM
It's nice and all, but from what I can tell most businesses are perfectly happy to use bar-code scanners.

They can use the same machine to scan iPhones, print-out tickets, or plastic cards. Convincing them to buy and instal NFC equipment that basically does the same job but has to go next to the bar-code reader (instead of replacing it) will be an uphill battle, I think.

Shrink
Jun 25, 2012, 10:24 AM
NFC together with passbook in iOS 6 will finally unburden our trouser pockets of unsightly bulges!!:cool:

Is that NFC and Passbook in your pocket, or are you just glad to see me...:p

cvaldes
Jun 25, 2012, 10:25 AM
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I am not stoked about NFC what so ever.

I have a bank, I get cash. I have a bank card and I can use that.

I am not interested in losing my phone AND wallet. A little worried about "grabbing" these signals out of the air and potential theft. I am least happy about what battery implications this & a bigger screen will bring.

Thanks but I'll keep using cash and my wallet can be full of credit cards.
You know, the Japanese and South Koreans have been successfully using NFC contactless payment systems since about 2005. There are no NFC horror stories emanating from Southeast Asia, so I'm guessing that they have solid security models.

Note that the phone doesn't replace your wallet, it just makes it thinner (you aren't carrying around twenty loyalty cards) and a lot of transactions are faster. The popularity of the "osaifu keitai" (literally "wallet phone") in Japan was driven by its daily usefulness as a mass transit pass.

Today, NFC transit cards are quite commonplace here in America in large metropolitan areas. Instead of carrying around a Clipper Card in your wallet (for SF Bay Area transit systems), why not wave your phone over the card reader? That's what the Japanese have been doing for 7+ years at the fare gate.

A big note for anyone who illogically things that the NFC-enable phone will eliminate the wallet: you'd still have a wallet for payments that aren't tied to NFC. You'd just be pulling out your wallet far less frequently.

Matthew Yohe
Jun 25, 2012, 10:27 AM
What exactly is 9to5 saying here? "We’ve previously been able to pull data from PreEVT iPhone 5,1 and iPhone 5,2 prototypes codenamed N41AP (5,1) and N42AP (5,2)"

"Pull data from ... prototypes"?

Are they seriously stating that they have had physical access to these devices and have made a "hardware code dump"?

a0me
Jun 25, 2012, 10:28 AM
- The first phone with NFC was the Nokia 6131, released in 2007.


The first Japanese feature phones with NFC and e-Wallet functionality were released in summer 2004, way before the Nokia handsets.

"NTT DoCoMo Introduces Revolutionary Mobile Wallet Service with First P506iC i-mode Smart-Card Handset"
http://www.nttdocomo.com/pr/2004/001189.html
"NTT DoCoMo to Market First 3G Smart-Card Handset F900iC"
http://www.nttdocomo.com/pr/2004/001200.html

rmwebs
Jun 25, 2012, 10:33 AM
Whilst this is handy to have, its not really a 'WOW' feature IMO. I'd hope this isnt pushed as the main feature of the next iPhone as it's really not something people buy a new phone over.

Cards already support it, and have done for a couple of years now. All you're doing is reaching into a different pocket to grab something else to slap against the card reader.

----------

Yet you're not worried about skimming (which can happen anywhere) when you use your bank/credit cards?

The US is years behind on card technology, in the UK (and most of Europe) the cashier does not get to touch your card. You put it in a card reader on YOUR side of the counter and enter your pin. It then charges you, much like a cash machine.

All the cashier gets is a confirmation on their screen, no card numbers, names, etc.

It's highly uncommon to have to give your card to anyone these days, and its been this way for at least 8 years.

Ciclismo
Jun 25, 2012, 10:34 AM
*Sigh*. You really don't want a cashless society. Trust me. Cash provides some anonymity and you can easily lend it or give it away.

I wish I could get into details but let us just say that I have been in the information analysis business for over a decade.

I like cash. I use cash whenever possible. I have nothing to hide but at the same time, I like freedom.

I like the freedom paying with cards can give - for example when in a country which doesn't use Euros, or when at an event in the middle of nowhere, like this festival I went to in NZ, about 40km from an ATM, but all the vendors had cellular EFTPOS Terminals.

Sure, cash gives you anonymity, but I'm not buying parts for WMDs, so it doesn't matter to me. I just hope the next iPhone has a better battery life, because I can't play through a whole shopping trip on the 4S...although that is a great excuse to cut such an excursion short...

FSMBP
Jun 25, 2012, 10:36 AM
If I lose my wallet, I lost my money and credit cards, have to deal with identity theft, etc. If I lose my phone, I have it password-protected so my money and credit cards are safe. Either way I lose access to my money, etc; but when I lose my phone the money's not gone for good.

Yeah, but you're going to need to carry non-Passbook things on you: ID, Insurance, Paper Money etc...

So, you'll still be carrying two things (a real wallet & an iPhone). I just don't see such a great advantage on PassBook. It's like, I would hated carrying around my iPod & a phone: it made sense to get an iPhone since the iPhone worked as an iPod. In this case, the iPhone can't fully replace a 'wallet' (yet).

DaffyDuck
Jun 25, 2012, 10:40 AM
The US is years behind on card technology, in the UK (and most of Europe) the cashier does not get to touch your card. You put it in a card reader on YOUR side of the counter and enter your pin. It then charges you, much like a cash machine.


It's done exactly the same way here in the US. The biggest concern is at restaurants and other venues where your card is handled.

----------

Yeah, but you're going to need to carry non-Passbook things on you: ID, Insurance, Paper Money etc...

So, you'll still be carrying two things (a real wallet & an iPhone). I just don't see such a great advantage on PassBook. It's like, I would hated carrying around my iPod & a phone: it made sense to get an iPhone since the iPhone worked as an iPod. In this case, the iPhone can't fully replace a 'wallet' (yet).

I'm thinking if Passbook takes off, some of these other forms of identification may be integrated later on. It'll take close cooperation between Apple and the industry to make that happen securely but there's no technical reason insurance cards, ID cards, etc could not be put into your phone.

canyonblue737
Jun 25, 2012, 10:42 AM
Am I the only one that doesn't think NFC is all that big of a deal? Other handsets have had this already yet it doesn't seem to be in place anywhere.

because it isn't the iPhone. the iPhone will change everything... NFC in the iPhone will create a world where within 3 years their will be NFC pay machines in almost all major retailers (although I suspect they will be compatible with more than just iPhone.)

Crzyrio
Jun 25, 2012, 10:43 AM
Yeah, but you're going to need to carry non-Passbook things on you: ID, Insurance, Paper Money etc...

So, you'll still be carrying two things (a real wallet & an iPhone). I just don't see such a great advantage on PassBook. It's like, I would hated carrying around my iPod & a phone: it made sense to get an iPhone since the iPhone worked as an iPod. In this case, the iPhone can't fully replace a 'wallet' (yet).


It may not replace it but it will reduce the size of it a hell of a lot.

I wont need a wallet anymore, I will just need a sleeve that holds my Drivers License, Insurance. I stopped using paper money a long time ago :P

theonekcrow
Jun 25, 2012, 10:44 AM
When I first saw the information about Passbook, I was thinking NFC would be a possible lock for the next iPhone. The main features we saw would be for the previous phones, but if they have NFC, it will be much easier, and makes me wonder if more business would get on board for NFC payments once Apple releases a NFC enabled iPhone.

There's a real fear about NFC as a technology. I'm a bit surprised to see it so frequently raised in a tech forum such as this, but for some reason there's a mistrust of paying for items using your phone like this.

Like the loss of credit cards, banks underwrite your any cash losses incurred through loss of an NFC card OR device, so there's really nothing to fear. In fact, you're better off than potentially losing the cash in your pocket.

And it's got to be better than losing your wallet?

This also makes me wonder if NFC will only be enabled if there is a passcode/password lock on the phone, and there will be a switch for the NFC that would need to be turned on and off.

TallGuy1970
Jun 25, 2012, 10:49 AM
you can already use your phone as a boarding card to check in. doesnt even require NFC

Yep, just used it myself to fly to Florida!

zzLZHzz
Jun 25, 2012, 10:50 AM
it is about time to have nfc.

Frobozz
Jun 25, 2012, 10:50 AM
I want this BADLY.

I have tried a couple products that scan your store rewards cards and place them in your phone– to varying success. It really depends on how good the scanners are at the store you go to. Sometimes it wouldn't work. But I think most of those issues are largely resolved now.

Also, simply being able to pay with your phone is amazing. Definitely jealous of phones that can do that. Although, I have to say, this is more an issue of critical mass. Now that the #1 smart phone in the world will have it, it will finally be a reality for everyone.

macslayer118
Jun 25, 2012, 10:52 AM
It's done exactly the same way here in the US. The biggest concern is at restaurants and other venues where your card is handled.

----------



I'm thinking if Passbook takes off, some of these other forms of identification may be integrated later on. It'll take close cooperation between Apple and the industry to make that happen securely but there's no technical reason insurance cards, ID cards, etc could not be put into your phone.

I can just see it now:

Police Officer: License and insurance please.
>hand him my iPhone<

No thank you. I'll keep some things separate.

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 25, 2012, 10:54 AM
The US is years behind on card technology, in the UK (and most of Europe) the cashier does not get to touch your card. You put it in a card reader on YOUR side of the counter and enter your pin. It then charges you, much like a cash machine.

All the cashier gets is a confirmation on their screen, no card numbers, names, etc.

It's highly uncommon to have to give your card to anyone these days, and its been this way for at least 8 years.

While that's true, skimming can and does happen when you swipe your card yourself.

roozie12
Jun 25, 2012, 10:55 AM
this is the nfc phone
http://www.nearfield.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/nokia_6212_nfc_rfid_phone.jpg

bbeagle
Jun 25, 2012, 10:57 AM
I don't think you really have to worry about that. There are still places that don't take credit cards, and surely there will be places that don't take NFC in the future. In some ways, you're right: Cash is king.

This will be a slow transition.

I'm sure our grandkids will laugh at us for still using cash when they grow up in a cash-less era.

'I remember the old days where you would actually WAIT until you got to a restaurant, stand in line, have a real person take your order, pay with pieces of paper, and get these little metal circle things as change....

Now you kids all order on your cell phones before you even get to Wendy McKings's, swipe your cell phone, and your order is ready. Lines used to grow character, dang nabbit!'

----------

I can just see it now:

Police Officer: License and insurance please.
>hand him my iPhone<

No thank you. I'll keep some things separate.

You won't HAND him your phone, he will probably have an NFC reader on his flashlight, and wave it at your cell phone, your cell phone will ask you 'ALLOW OFFICER BARNEY FIFE TO ACCESS YOUR ID', you would click 'ALLOW', then the officer would go back to his car and click a button, and your ticket would appear on your cell phone, and a court date would appear on your calendar.

marcusj0015
Jun 25, 2012, 10:58 AM
What would be the purpose of NFC, when it already has BlueTooth 4.0? Does this mean Apple's abandoning BlueTooth 4.0?

roozie12
Jun 25, 2012, 10:58 AM
it is about time to have nfc.

yes it time apple i will not buy your phone ever again if you dont put ncf in it

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 25, 2012, 10:58 AM
I can just see it now:

Police Officer: License and insurance please.
>hand him my iPhone<

No thank you. I'll keep some things separate.

Driver license will probably be the last thing to become mobile, but when that happens, the police will most likely have the appropriate device to check your license, etc. electronically without leaving your side of the vehicle.

DaffyDuck
Jun 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
I can just see it now:

Police Officer: License and insurance please.
>hand him my iPhone<

No thank you. I'll keep some things separate.

The point of NFC is secure wireless communication. You wouldn't have to hand over the phone.

CplBadboy
Jun 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
I would advise turning off the NFC feature if it rears its head. As savvy as it sounds its pretty insecure.

A demo was carried out on the UK and card readers are pretty easy to come by therefore easy to capture peoples data by merely walking past them with a card reader. Target areas included the tube and highly populated areas. Peoples card details where easy gleaned of the reader. Forget who carried out the research but in the end they highly recommended not to use the technology as its a fraud haven and easily done.

pgiguere1
Jun 25, 2012, 11:03 AM
The first Japanese feature phones with NFC and e-Wallet functionality were released in summer 2004, way before the Nokia handsets.

"NTT DoCoMo Introduces Revolutionary Mobile Wallet Service with First P506iC i-mode Smart-Card Handset"
http://www.nttdocomo.com/pr/2004/001189.html
"NTT DoCoMo to Market First 3G Smart-Card Handset F900iC"
http://www.nttdocomo.com/pr/2004/001200.html

The NFC standard didn't exist back then so technically this wasn't NFC, but yeah, it was basically the same thing.

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 25, 2012, 11:05 AM
I would advise turning off the NFC feature if it rears its head. As savvy as it sounds its pretty insecure.

A demo was carried out on the UK and card readers are pretty easy to come by therefore easy to capture peoples data by merely walking past them with a card reader. Target areas included the tube and highly populated areas. Peoples card details where easy gleaned of the reader. Forget who carried out the research but in the end they highly recommended not to use the technology as its a fraud haven and easily done.

Do you think Apple would allow NFC to drain the battery by being on all the time? It's going to act just like any other app, one at a time.

DaffyDuck
Jun 25, 2012, 11:07 AM
I would advise turning off the NFC feature if it rears its head. As savvy as it sounds its pretty insecure.

A demo was carried out on the UK and card readers are pretty easy to come by therefore easy to capture peoples data by merely walking past them with a card reader. Target areas included the tube and highly populated areas. Peoples card details where easy gleaned of the reader. Forget who carried out the research but in the end they highly recommended not to use the technology as its a fraud haven and easily done.

NFC would probably be off until you unlock the phone. I'm hoping it also has notifications when any real NFC communication takes place.

dontwalkhand
Jun 25, 2012, 11:09 AM
I hope it will take a bit more than a simple wave to activate. They've already stopped putting circuitry in credit cards because a simple pass-by would activate and capture it.
What do you mean stopped? I recently got one with it, and find it convenient at the gas station.

No pass by can activate a card that requires you to be an inch from the reader to use. Also I've noticed that if you have your bus pass in the same wallet, none of them would read.

Ciclismo
Jun 25, 2012, 11:11 AM
I would advise turning off the NFC feature if it rears its head. As savvy as it sounds its pretty insecure.

A demo was carried out on the UK and card readers are pretty easy to come by therefore easy to capture peoples data by merely walking past them with a card reader. Target areas included the tube and highly populated areas. Peoples card details where easy gleaned of the reader. Forget who carried out the research but in the end they highly recommended not to use the technology as its a fraud haven and easily done.

That is for RFID chips. NFC adds a security layer as you will need to grant access to a request. So someone would need to merely walk past you, reach into your pocket, unlock your phone and enter a PIN (which I assume will be used to further secure the NFC process) in order to get any sensitive information such as CC numbers. And even then, the CC number transmission could be encrypted.

dontwalkhand
Jun 25, 2012, 11:11 AM
What would be the purpose of NFC, when it already has BlueTooth 4.0? Does this mean Apple's abandoning BlueTooth 4.0?
Stores already have PayPass readers in place, nobody has BT 4.0 readers.

bbeagle
Jun 25, 2012, 11:11 AM
I would advise turning off the NFC feature if it rears its head. As savvy as it sounds its pretty insecure.

Your phone will have a say in what it transmits. Just having NFC on your phone does not mean that 'everything on your phone will be transmitted to anyone asking'.

I'd imagine there would be an interface where you have to PHYSICALLY hit a button on your cell phone to ALLOW someone to see your information / take your money / etc. And only 'VERIFIED' people could ask you - someone wouldn't be able to spoof being 'McDonalds', for example.

Because if not for that, of course nobody would use it.

Ciclismo
Jun 25, 2012, 11:12 AM
I hope it will take a bit more than a simple wave to activate. They've already stopped putting circuitry in credit cards because a simple pass-by would activate and capture it.

Funny you should claim that, as mine was just replace because Mastercard just added the functionality to my card.

AppleGuesser
Jun 25, 2012, 11:17 AM
I would advise turning off the NFC feature if it rears its head. As savvy as it sounds its pretty insecure.


As savvy as a credit card sounds. It can be stolen anywhere, it sounds pretty insecure :rolleyes:

olowott
Jun 25, 2012, 11:18 AM
Bless this rumour!

NFC enables is a very good thing

The Apple Tags :eek: - awesome

Fast & easy communcation btw iPhones

Stoobs
Jun 25, 2012, 11:19 AM
It's done exactly the same way here in the US. The biggest concern is at restaurants and other venues where your card is handled.

Most of them in the UK and from what I've seen in Canada also work the same way in restaurants etc, server enters the bill info, then hands you the payment machine, and actively looks away, while you insert your card, confirm the billing amount, enter your pin and conform the transaction - the server never touches your card :)

JangoFett124
Jun 25, 2012, 11:20 AM
As savvy as a credit card sounds. It can be stolen anywhere, it sounds pretty insecure :rolleyes:

If I lose my credit card, the numbers are right there to copy. This feature will wrap the credit card around encryption and most likely a password to use. This is a lot more safe than carrying around plastic.

rmwebs
Jun 25, 2012, 11:21 AM
It's done exactly the same way here in the US. The biggest concern is at restaurants and other venues where your card is handled.

Pretty much all restaurants use portable chip and pin machines. Your card is still not touched by anyone.

cvaldes
Jun 25, 2012, 11:21 AM
What would be the purpose of NFC, when it already has BlueTooth 4.0? Does this mean Apple's abandoning BlueTooth 4.0?

Stores already have PayPass readers in place, nobody has BT 4.0 readers.


NFC is designed for low-power, short-distance communications for certain types of interactions. Note that as dontwalkhand points out, you can use a credit card (no battery) or a transit card for something like NFC contactless payments.

Bluetooth -- while also a wireless communications protocol -- is not really designed for this as its primary function. Bluetooth is really designed as a wireless alternative to cable management, things like telephone headsets, keyboards, mice, etc. The Bluetooth spec supports longer distances (generally 5-10 meters), and thus is not suitable for financial transactions. Also, Bluetooth basically requires power on both devices.

NFC transmission distances are typically very short (like inches) for security purposes. If you wave a Clipper Card (the SF Bay Area's transit card) over a reader, you need to be one or two inches above the sensor. If you wave it six inches away, it will not register.

AppleGuesser
Jun 25, 2012, 11:23 AM
If I lose my credit card, the numbers are right there to copy. This feature will wrap the credit card around encryption and most likely a password to use. This is a lot more safe than carrying around plastic.

Exactly, I was joking about that guys ridiculous comment :D

Fatboy71
Jun 25, 2012, 11:25 AM
This will be the event that causes NFC to go mainstream. Retailers who were taking a "wait and see" approach will dive in head first once it's in the iPhone.

iPhone 5 launch is going to be verrrry interesting.

I hope so, has I've yet to see a NFC credit card terminal anywhere in my area.

kiljoy616
Jun 25, 2012, 11:35 AM
I was hoping that would go away and something better was implemented.:rolleyes:

jonnysods
Jun 25, 2012, 11:39 AM
Sweet. Won't need as many credit cards anymore! Or a big wallet!

Mattsasa
Jun 25, 2012, 11:40 AM
*yawn*

knewsom
Jun 25, 2012, 11:42 AM
Not to mention that if you lose your iPhone, you just lost your money temporarily (for that night or however long until you get a new one & restore).

Man, why would anyone want to carry their money around in their pocket in something that could easily be left on a counter or taken by a pickpocket? :rolleyes:

kiljoy616
Jun 25, 2012, 11:44 AM
Man, why would anyone want to carry their money around in their pocket in something that could easily be left on a counter or taken by a pickpocket? :rolleyes:

No sure for others but cash is king for me.

JangoFett124
Jun 25, 2012, 11:51 AM
No sure for others but cash is king for me.

If you lose your cash, it's gone for good.

samcraig
Jun 25, 2012, 11:53 AM
No idea why this is getting downvotes. It's extremely valid and something everyone should remember whether it's towards Apple, Microsoft, Google or whatever.

For example- NFC gaining traction and wider adoption is a win for the consumer because right now- in the US - there are very few places to even use NFC. There are strength in numbers. It's not always about one company vs another. Sometimes it's about forging ahead and moving a technology towards better adoption.

Well nobody can say that Apple stole NFC from Google, but Google "did it first" (as in, phone wallet) and Apple will be doing it now.

Which is a good thing.

This is not about "stealing", this is about driving technology forward, something that both Android and iPhone users should understand. Unfortunately Apple is not helping by frequently claiming "how everyone is copying from them", but that's just a narcissistic statement from a narcissistic company, we got loads of those.

So yeah, Google did it first like a lot of things that Apple is introducing lately, but who cares - it's good that Apple is introducing those features too. Good ideas should be promoted, not avoided for the sake of competition.

JangoFett124
Jun 25, 2012, 11:53 AM
Yeah, but you're going to need to carry non-Passbook things on you: ID, Insurance, Paper Money etc...

So, you'll still be carrying two things (a real wallet & an iPhone). I just don't see such a great advantage on PassBook. It's like, I would hated carrying around my iPod & a phone: it made sense to get an iPhone since the iPhone worked as an iPod. In this case, the iPhone can't fully replace a 'wallet' (yet).

I'm going to have to carry both around anyway. And in the future, everything might be on the phone. Carrying around less and less cards does lead to a lighter wallet, and more security too.

Radio
Jun 25, 2012, 11:53 AM
They stole NFC from Google?

I thought apple bought up everthingI mean invented everthing !

bbeagle
Jun 25, 2012, 11:56 AM
No sure for others but cash is king for me.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5105IjjFIvL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

I prefer George Strait.

----------

I thought apple bought up everthingI mean invented everthing !

How Lame.

Apple does not claim at INVENTING everything, but of making the experience better. And it does.

chrisbru
Jun 25, 2012, 11:57 AM
No sure for others but cash is king for me.

I think you missed his point - A wallet can just as easily (or, some might even say, MORE easily) be left on a counter or pickpocketed as a phone. And, in the event that a NFC phone is stolen, everything on it is much more secure because you would need to be able to unlock the phone/enter a pin/etc. to use any of the payment forms stored on it. Alternatively, if my wallet is stolen the thief can use any of those cards at a number of places until I notice it is missing and call and cancel my card. Gas stations especially have ZERO protection against stolen cards, and a majority of stores won't check signatures or pay attention to a "SEE ID" written on the back of the card.

gtg660w
Jun 25, 2012, 11:58 AM
uggg...again?

I understand that with Passbook coming to ios6, this seems more feasible. But seriously, this rumor has been tooted since iPhone 4. For clarify, so have the other following rumors:

1) Bigger screen - looks to be finally confirmed
2) Tear drop design
3) oval shaped home button
4) smaller dock connector - looks to be confirmed
5) turn-by-turn navigation - confirmed
-- other non-iphone related
6) an Apple television set - seriously, if i'm an analyst, might as well cover my eyes and throw at a dart board
7) iPad Mini - ditto on the tv set
8) iFloor Mat - j/k :p

knewsom
Jun 25, 2012, 12:00 PM
I think you missed his point - A wallet can just as easily (or, some might even say, MORE easily) be left on a counter or pickpocketed as a phone. And, in the event that a NFC phone is stolen, everything on it is much more secure because you would need to be able to unlock the phone/enter a pin/etc. to use any of the payment forms stored on it. Alternatively, if my wallet is stolen the thief can use any of those cards at a number of places until I notice it is missing and call and cancel my card. Gas stations especially have ZERO protection against stolen cards, and a majority of stores won't check signatures or pay attention to a "SEE ID" written on the back of the card.

Nailed it.

deannnnn
Jun 25, 2012, 12:06 PM
So what will they call it?....

iCash
iPay
iWallet
iMoney....

?

They'll probably implement it into iTunes but then not change the name.

BornAgainMac
Jun 25, 2012, 12:07 PM
If I lose my credit card, the numbers are right there to copy. This feature will wrap the credit card around encryption and most likely a password to use. This is a lot more safe than carrying around plastic.

Wow, I can almost see the keynote slide comparing both now.

guzhogi
Jun 25, 2012, 12:09 PM
Sounds good to me. Plus, with passbook, your iPhone will be all you need to pay for stuff or whatever.

Macintosh-HD
Jun 25, 2012, 12:15 PM
I know it's just a mock illustration, but I like how it displays 3G... How 2008 is that, lol :p? I though the next gen iPhone was supposed to be 4G.

hirshnoc
Jun 25, 2012, 12:17 PM
That's all great, but when is Apple integrating tactile feedback for games and/or a pressure sensor for, say, musical instrument apps? A thermometer (for getting accurate on the spot weather conditions) would be cool too.

----------

Oh and an altimeter. Would be cooooool. :D

hushypushy
Jun 25, 2012, 12:26 PM
I think you missed his point - A wallet can just as easily (or, some might even say, MORE easily) be left on a counter or pickpocketed as a phone. And, in the event that a NFC phone is stolen, everything on it is much more secure because you would need to be able to unlock the phone/enter a pin/etc. to use any of the payment forms stored on it. Alternatively, if my wallet is stolen the thief can use any of those cards at a number of places until I notice it is missing and call and cancel my card. Gas stations especially have ZERO protection against stolen cards, and a majority of stores won't check signatures or pay attention to a "SEE ID" written on the back of the card.

Where do you buy gas?? I've purchased gas in fifteen different states in the past year, and I've always had to enter some information. If it's a debit card, they want my PIN. If it's a credit card, I have to enter my zip code. For me, a gas station is one of the safest places...although I do concede there are many places (e.g. Best Buy) where you can buy expensive things and they rarely check ID or look at the card.

However, I don't see how a wallet is more easily pick-pocketed. My wallet is always in my front pants pocket...and I only take it out when I'm paying for something. On the other hand, my cell phone is constantly out--whether it be in my hand being used, left on a restaurant table as I eat, etc. Remember how the public discovered the iPhone 4? :D

steve-p
Jun 25, 2012, 12:28 PM
Sweet. Won't need as many credit cards anymore! Or a big wallet!

It would be bad news if you had a flat battery and couldn't pay for anything though :)

Rocketman
Jun 25, 2012, 12:29 PM
I want NFC to be password protected or dual swipe protected by default. Also another security check above a stated transaction amount.

lzyprson
Jun 25, 2012, 12:40 PM
Not to mention that if you lose your iPhone, you just lost your money temporarily (for that night or however long until you get a new one & restore).

Who loses, let alone drops, an iphone!! Mildly joking of course... (knocks on wood).

:apple:

cvaldes
Jun 25, 2012, 12:48 PM
Not to mention that if you lose your iPhone, you just lost your money temporarily (for that night or however long until you get a new one & restore).
Here we go with this short-sighted observation again.

An NFC-enabled phone does not mean you leave your wallet at home. It means you don't pull out your wallet that frequently and it's a lot thinner because you aren't carrying out a stack of loyalty cards.

You still need to carry around a wallet for situations/vendors who do not accept NFC contactless payments. And if you really want to dig around your wallet/purse for a credit card or cash, even though the merchant accepts contactless payments, you are free to do so, just like the little old lady who is writing a check at the grocery store.

Remember, the Japanese and South Koreans have been using walletphones since about 2005 and there aren't any horror stories emanating from Southeast Asia.

DaffyDuck
Jun 25, 2012, 12:48 PM
Where do you buy gas?? I've purchased gas in fifteen different states in the past year, and I've always had to enter some information. If it's a debit card, they want my PIN. If it's a credit card, I have to enter my zip code. For me, a gas station is one of the safest places...although I do concede there are many places (e.g. Best Buy) where you can buy expensive things and they rarely check ID or look at the card.

However, I don't see how a wallet is more easily pick-pocketed. My wallet is always in my front pants pocket...and I only take it out when I'm paying for something. On the other hand, my cell phone is constantly out--whether it be in my hand being used, left on a restaurant table as I eat, etc. Remember how the public discovered the iPhone 4? :D

Sheetz is one gas station chain that does not require any additional info after swiping your credit card...at least in my state.

Navdakilla
Jun 25, 2012, 12:50 PM
I understand that Google has started using this in their mainstream phones. However how many people actually use this? All of my android friends know about it, but don't ever use it.

That's where Apple will succeed. They will bring this to the masses, and make it easy/simple to use. I can see all of us using this quite a bit by this time next year. Also most companies joining board as well.

This is exciting stuff!

URFloorMatt
Jun 25, 2012, 01:06 PM
Seems obvious. Apple always touts 6-8 new tentpole features. We now know three:

1) LTE
2) Larger Retina screen
3) NFC

I think a 720p upgrade to the front-facing camera is a likely fourth. A quad-core processor would be another likely possibility. The rest will probably be minor, or things they noted in the iOS 6 preview but didn't touch on (like perhaps the new iTunes and App Stores, especially if iTunes is getting a significant revision as well, which has been hinted at).

I like the theory that the reason for the redesigned two-tone back of the new iPhone design has to do with NFC.

metsjetsfan
Jun 25, 2012, 01:11 PM
NFC is designed for low-power, short-distance communications for certain types of interactions. Note that as dontwalkhand points out, you can use a credit card (no battery) or a transit card for something like NFC contactless payments.

Bluetooth -- while also a wireless communications protocol -- is not really designed for this as its primary function. Bluetooth is really designed as a wireless alternative to cable management, things like telephone headsets, keyboards, mice, etc. The Bluetooth spec supports longer distances (generally 5-10 meters), and thus is not suitable for financial transactions. Also, Bluetooth basically requires power on both devices.

NFC transmission distances are typically very short (like inches) for security purposes. If you wave a Clipper Card (the SF Bay Area's transit card) over a reader, you need to be one or two inches above the sensor. If you wave it six inches away, it will not register.

Can anyone comment on the security of NFC when transmitting? Thanks

applejesus
Jun 25, 2012, 01:17 PM
Reading some of the fear-mongering in this thread, it's easy to see why so many people claim that Apple users are misguided, sheepish fools.

Your card details will not be stolen by someone with a massive receiver walking around in Subway. If Apple follow Google's security procedures, NFC will not be enabled while the phone's screen is off. So, unless you like keeping your iPhone's screen on while it's in your pocket, nothing will be stolen. Even if your screen is on, Android phones vibrate whenever there's a NFC connection being made.

NFC payments are used in many stores already, you're just not aware of it. Check out the PayPass/PayWave locators and you'll be surprised. Once Apple jumps on the NFC bandwagon, support will explode. It's just like with applications. There were plenty of applications on Windows Mobile and Symbian prior to iOS existing, but once Apple stepped in, every company wanted their own application. This will happen again with NFC.

A mobile wallet is infinitely more secure than a physical leather one. If you lose your physical wallet, anybody who picks it up now has immediate access to your funds or any other sensitive data within it. With an NFC-enabled wallet, this is not possible due to PINs and the secure element.

I look forward to seeing NFC in the next iPhone. Android/Google have been doing it for ages, but Google are truly a useless company when it comes to execution and follow-through. Apple will dominate this space, and it will probably be a good thing for the industry as a whole.

alent1234
Jun 25, 2012, 01:18 PM
I understand that Google has started using this in their mainstream phones. However how many people actually use this? All of my android friends know about it, but don't ever use it.

That's where Apple will succeed. They will bring this to the masses, and make it easy/simple to use. I can see all of us using this quite a bit by this time next year. Also most companies joining board as well.

This is exciting stuff!


retailers have to add new POS units for NFC to work. Unlike a loyalty card which they already have systems to support.

between the new passbook feature and new payment schemes like Square or Level Up you don't really need NFC or it probably won't go anywhere because of the cost involved

cvaldes
Jun 25, 2012, 01:26 PM
A mobile wallet is infinitely more secure than a physical leather one. If you lose your physical wallet, anybody who picks it up now has immediate access to your funds or any other sensitive data within it. With an NFC-enabled wallet, this is not possible due to PINs and the secure element.
Correct, which is why there are no horror stories emanating from Southeast Asia.

My iPhone has a simple four-digit PIN on the lock screen. An NFC payment app would have a PIN and most likely the option for a more complex password.

It's rather sad to see the number of paranoid people here on this forum since the Japanese and South Koreans have been successfully using these phone-based contactless payment systems since about 2005.

The main reason why America is way behind isn't the security nor technology. It's the lack of a dominant standard.

In Japan, NTT DoCoMo basically said, "here's our system, this is how it will be." They were smart because they also supported the Mobile Suica system (the contactless payment system for JR East -- the largest transit provider in metropolitan Tokyo).

jonnysods
Jun 25, 2012, 01:26 PM
It would be bad news if you had a flat battery and couldn't pay for anything though :)

Touche!

Caliber26
Jun 25, 2012, 01:31 PM
You forgot to explain why this is scary.

Think about it. Everything around us serves as a good indicator that this scenario I'm describing is very probable. "National security", "personal safety", and the "convenience" of things will make chipping people a no-brainer. And once the government gets involved, rest assured it'll become a standard, and they'll most likely require everyone to get with the program. Those who refuse it, will probably be unable (or it will be very difficult) to access their money, health care, employment, purchase/sell goods and services, or even travel without the embedded passport/ID. Those people will be left on their own to survive like stray dogs.

IF it ever comes down to that, I will find it to be very invasive and manipulative of our freedoms. And I certainly hope that this comes to pass long after I'm gone. I don't about you, but that type of oppression doesn't sound very inviting to me.

applejesus
Jun 25, 2012, 01:33 PM
Touche!

No, not touché. Depending on Apple's implementation of NFC, it might still be possible to use NFC (as a passive tag) while the battery is dead. BlackBerry NFC devices have this functionality.

However, that would of course be less secure. We'll see which route Apple takes.

Sackvillenb
Jun 25, 2012, 02:03 PM
That would be pretty useful. For sure. I'm still a bit concerned about security though, and although I'm not the paranoid type, I if it can be protected from fraudulent near-field interactions, and/or malware that could compromise credit card information, etc. They've been using NFC in Asia for a while now (and some parts of Europe too I think), so what kind of security issues (if any) are they having over there? I don't think the security threat is necessarily huge or anything (I imagine it's similar to other electronic payment technologies, none of which are fool-proof), I'm just wondering what kind of problems they might have...

It still be very convenient though :)

gaximus
Jun 25, 2012, 02:07 PM
Not to mention that if you lose your iPhone, you just lost your money temporarily (for that night or however long until you get a new one & restore).

I'd be more worried about the lost $650 phone than the $50 some dollars I usuall have to my name. :)

chrisbru
Jun 25, 2012, 02:11 PM
Where do you buy gas?? I've purchased gas in fifteen different states in the past year, and I've always had to enter some information. If it's a debit card, they want my PIN. If it's a credit card, I have to enter my zip code. For me, a gas station is one of the safest places...although I do concede there are many places (e.g. Best Buy) where you can buy expensive things and they rarely check ID or look at the card.

However, I don't see how a wallet is more easily pick-pocketed. My wallet is always in my front pants pocket...and I only take it out when I'm paying for something. On the other hand, my cell phone is constantly out--whether it be in my hand being used, left on a restaurant table as I eat, etc. Remember how the public discovered the iPhone 4? :D



Now that you mention it - You're right, the gas station that I frequent is the only one I can think of that doesn't ask for a zip code. My mistake.

I guess I think it's more easily pick-pocketed because my wallet is back pocket, and rarely handled - I could go a few hours without noticing it was gone.. My phone, however, is front-pocket, and always either in my hand, in my front pocket, or in my vision.

hchung
Jun 25, 2012, 02:22 PM
What would be the purpose of NFC, when it already has BlueTooth 4.0? Does this mean Apple's abandoning BlueTooth 4.0?

NFC and BT4 are used/designed for different purposes and for the most part, don't cross over.

NFC is very short, one-time, data transfer sessions. Something like sending a kilobyte of data from two very simple devices that have a high likelihood of never seeing each other again after the transfer completes in a second.

BT4-LE is for a connection between two devices where data may be periodically exchanged during a longer session. Like a heart rate monitor. Very small amounts of data over longer period of time.

Bluetooth is for personal devices that will likely be in communcations fairly often and at much higher data rates. You know what that looks like.

----------

Correct, which is why there are no horror stories emanating from Southeast Asia.

My iPhone has a simple four-digit PIN on the lock screen. An NFC payment app would have a PIN and most likely the option for a more complex password.

It's rather sad to see the number of paranoid people here on this forum since the Japanese and South Koreans have been successfully using these phone-based contactless payment systems since about 2005.

The main reason why America is way behind isn't the security nor technology. It's the lack of a dominant standard.

In Japan, NTT DoCoMo basically said, "here's our system, this is how it will be." They were smart because they also supported the Mobile Suica system (the contactless payment system for JR East -- the largest transit provider in metropolitan Tokyo).

Although I haven't been to Korea, I don't remember ever seeing a Japanese person use their phone for payment. Most of the ones I know all carry the RF cards instead. So it's actually they're typically plopping their wallets or a card holder onto the rail gate instead of a phone.

Maybe it might be more frequent now, as the last time I was there was 2010.

Figure 11
Jun 25, 2012, 02:41 PM
It's nice and all, but from what I can tell most businesses are perfectly happy to use bar-code scanners.

They can use the same machine to scan iPhones, print-out tickets, or plastic cards. Convincing them to buy and instal NFC equipment that basically does the same job but has to go next to the bar-code reader (instead of replacing it) will be an uphill battle, I think.

The retailer will not be adding another piece of equipment but just replacing the existing PIN Pad with one that incorporates an NFC reader.

So just one device on the customer side of the counter that can take payment from
a) NFC (£20 limit here in the UK)
b) Chip & PIN for larger transaction and cards without NFC
c) Mag strip reader for Ludites;)

And as tiguk posted earlier Barclays and VISA are already pushing this to retailers so Apple putting their weight behind NFC will get this going mainstream a bit quicker.

un10101
Jun 25, 2012, 02:47 PM
This would be a cool feature. I think the iPhone is such capable device, it's almost hard to go a day without using it at least once. If it allows NFC technology, then this would make it even more powerful. I'm excited to see where PassBook and the next iPhone take us.

lilo777
Jun 25, 2012, 03:03 PM
Seems obvious. Apple always touts 6-8 new tentpole features. We now know three:

1) LTE
2) Larger Retina screen
3) NFC

I think a 720p upgrade to the front-facing camera is a likely fourth. A quad-core processor would be another likely possibility. The rest will probably be minor, or things they noted in the iOS 6 preview but didn't touch on (like perhaps the new iTunes and App Stores, especially if iTunes is getting a significant revision as well, which has been hinted at).

I like the theory that the reason for the redesigned two-tone back of the new iPhone design has to do with NFC.

The irony here is that all these features showed up first in Android devices a year ago. One can look at a year old Android phone and safely guess what the next iPhone will look like. In addition to the list above we can probably guess that, just like Android phones, iPhone will get 1GB RAM (although Android phones already started to move to 2GB RAM) and 1.2Ghz CPU.

SBlue1
Jun 25, 2012, 03:53 PM
Lets see if i can transfer my monthly tube card to this chip. That would be cool!

mikethebigo
Jun 25, 2012, 04:22 PM
$20 says it'll be called iPay.

Ajones330
Jun 25, 2012, 04:43 PM
Can't wait for this to happen... Quick and easy paying

Twixt
Jun 25, 2012, 05:10 PM
Its a 3.5" iPhone 4S. lol.

On this pics it looks so outdated...

Mackan
Jun 25, 2012, 07:41 PM
I assume all this is cool as long as your iPhone has battery juice left.

SactoGuy18
Jun 25, 2012, 08:09 PM
If this story confirms NFC mobile payments, don't be surprised that the chipset that enables this is compatible with the Sony-developed FeliCa standard for NFC communications, which would make the next iPhone become THE device for mobile payments in Japan for transit tickets and convenience store purchases. And I wouldn't be surprised the NFC functionality will also work with the new ISIS mobile payment system being developed for the US market.

charlituna
Jun 25, 2012, 08:30 PM
That would make sense, as I don't see Apple adding Passbook just for starbucks gift cards and airline tickets.

i suspect that like Newsstand and Game Center this is something that anyone will be able to program for if they wish.

dra
Jun 25, 2012, 09:08 PM
iphone 5 def will have to have a must buy to get this feature rules just like how apple did the iphone 4 with cam light and 4s with siri. so yea we def getting a new feature :-)

OCICILIONI
Jun 25, 2012, 09:35 PM
What happens if you lose your phone? How safe is your financial information if your phone gets into the wrong hands? How do we protect ourselves from thieves who have electronic devices that can steal the signals being sent to the cash register? A lot of what if's!!

gregorypierce
Jun 25, 2012, 09:57 PM
This is possibly the most obvious news in the world today. Every other phone manufacturer is putting this technology in phones already and many consumer electronic manufacturers are already moving to add the tech to TVs and everything else. NFC is coming, its coming on the next iOS devices, its going to allow for the sync of stuff to the AppleTV and Passport is Apple's wallet.

These are all no-brainers at this point.

----------

What happens if you lose your phone? How safe is your financial information if your phone gets into the wrong hands? How do we protect ourselves from thieves who have electronic devices that can steal the signals being sent to the cash register? A lot of what if's!!

The effective range of NFC is measured in centimeters and the communication will be secured. If you are worrying about losing your phone, be more concerned about losing your wallet. An iOS device gone missing can be wiped or locked in minutes. Your credit cards in your wallet take a fair bit longer to work through the system.

morechicken
Jun 26, 2012, 01:22 AM
Hopefully in europe too.

chaosbunny
Jun 26, 2012, 02:58 AM
As eager and willing as I am to run out and buy the next iPhone, and as much as I love technology, this type of thing still scares me when I think of where it'll probably lead to. I'm sure it won't be too long before these chips eventually work themselves into our bodies or are required by law, in the holy name of national security. Passport, driver license, health and vehicle insurance info, bank/credit accounts, medical records... all "conveniently" stored in one little chip, secured somewhere under your skin. It's coming. :rolleyes:

Good post. It's only coming because too many people blindly follow advertising and use things like this without thinking about consequences for a second.

"Ah well, all my actions are being monitored and profiled, but I don't care because it's so convenient and I don't want to use my brain." :rolleyes:

Bezetos
Jun 26, 2012, 07:02 AM
Well nobody can say that Apple stole NFC from Google, but Google "did it first" (as in, phone wallet) and Apple will be doing it now.

Which is a good thing.

This is not about "stealing", this is about driving technology forward, something that both Android and iPhone users should understand. Unfortunately Apple is not helping by frequently claiming "how everyone is copying from them", but that's just a narcissistic statement from a narcissistic company, we got loads of those.

So yeah, Google did it first like a lot of things that Apple is introducing lately, but who cares - it's good that Apple is introducing those features too. Good ideas should be promoted, not avoided for the sake of competition.

No idea why this is getting downvotes. It's extremely valid and something everyone should remember whether it's towards Apple, Microsoft, Google or whatever.

For example- NFC gaining traction and wider adoption is a win for the consumer because right now- in the US - there are very few places to even use NFC. There are strength in numbers. It's not always about one company vs another. Sometimes it's about forging ahead and moving a technology towards better adoption.I was shocked I got so many downvotes, this only shows that there are too many blindly devoted Apple fans here that can't face the truth... My statement actually defends Apple from Android fans who claim Apple stole something, but it seems that unless I praise Apple as if they're the gods then nothing will be deemed acceptable by your regular Apple fanboy... Sad.

Oletros
Jun 26, 2012, 07:29 AM
The first Japanese feature phones with NFC and e-Wallet functionality were released in summer 2004, way before the Nokia handsets.

"NTT DoCoMo Introduces Revolutionary Mobile Wallet Service with First P506iC i-mode Smart-Card Handset"
http://www.nttdocomo.com/pr/2004/001189.html
"NTT DoCoMo to Market First 3G Smart-Card Handset F900iC"
http://www.nttdocomo.com/pr/2004/001200.html


This is RFID, not NFC

AppleGuesser
Jun 26, 2012, 11:10 AM
Well nobody can say that Apple stole NFC from Google, but Google "did it first" (as in, phone wallet) and Apple will be doing it now.

Which is a good thing.

This is not about "stealing", this is about driving technology forward, something that both Android and iPhone users should understand. Unfortunately Apple is not helping by frequently claiming "how everyone is copying from them", but that's just a narcissistic statement from a narcissistic company, we got loads of those.

So yeah, Google did it first like a lot of things that Apple is introducing lately, but who cares - it's good that Apple is introducing those features too. Good ideas should be promoted, not avoided for the sake of competition.

EDIT: WOW, -13 points, this proves that there's a lot off blindly devoted Apple fanboys here... I wrote a bit of truth that actually DEFENDS Apple and I get downvoted, way to go guys, give yourself a round of applause.

Dont be shocked. If you even hint that you have enough intelligence to not just blindly say, "Apple rulezzzzz, Android lame...." then they down vote you. It sucks, MacRumors is becoming like Engadget with unintelligent fanboys which can border on obnoxious. :(

----------

I was shocked I got so many downvotes, this only shows that there are too many blindly devoted Apple fans here that can't face the truth... My statement actually defends Apple from Android fans who claim Apple stole something, but it seems that unless I praise Apple as if they're the gods then nothing will be deemed acceptable by your regular Apple fanboy... Sad.

Yep, I feel ya man. I do. :(

TBenson
Jun 26, 2012, 11:40 AM
--Passbook programming tools/code?

There have been a couple threads already talking about Passbook programming tools, utilities, code snippets, etc. that people are already cooking.

If anybody knows of new tools, I would like to hear about it. Playing with Passbook is just too much fun to "pass" up. :)

ixodes
Jun 26, 2012, 12:27 PM
There is a huge worldwide focus within the financial community around mobile payment systems. With the competitions units well underway, Apple has some catching up to do if they want to be relevant in this space.

It appears that within just weeks to a few months the USA may be introduced to some of the payment system options that are already implemented in other parts of the world. From as far away as Sri Lanka, to as near as VISA in the USA, this promises to be a very interesting project to follow.

The new Galaxy S III has NFC embedded in every device they ship. It's such an important part of the phone, even those coming into the USA have it, yet Samsung disables it, due to the influence, power and legal control that the carriers have.

How Apple navigates around this hurdle will be interesting. If successful, it's a huge threat to the big three carriers. Word has it that Samsung is close to clearing the legal hurdles, and once it''s done, they will push out a software key to unlock NFC functionality within their handsets.

One thing's for certain, there is a rather silent yet frenetic push to see who's system grabs public acceptance and usage in the USA.

Apple employees are using an App and this site:
http://apple.passportlifestyle.com/

Bezetos
Jun 26, 2012, 03:31 PM
What happens if you lose your phone? How safe is your financial information if your phone gets into the wrong hands? How do we protect ourselves from thieves who have electronic devices that can steal the signals being sent to the cash register? A lot of what if's!!

This is actually safer than losing a credit card, since you can't use NFC for bigger payments and you usually have a daily limit. Moreover "thieves who have electronic devices that can steal the signals being sent to the cash register" (?) can't do much with NFC because of the secure protocol that is used for communication. Read about public-key cryptography, we've had secure ways of establishing communication between two nodes since the 70s.

hchung
Jun 26, 2012, 07:24 PM
If this story confirms NFC mobile payments, don't be surprised that the chipset that enables this is compatible with the Sony-developed FeliCa standard for NFC communications, which would make the next iPhone become THE device for mobile payments in Japan for transit tickets and convenience store purchases. And I wouldn't be surprised the NFC functionality will also work with the new ISIS mobile payment system being developed for the US market.

The NFC standard isn't just likely to be compatible. It will be compatible since Felica is one of the standards NFC is built on.

----------

This is RFID, not NFC

You're right that it's not officially NFC as the NFC Forum wasn't established yet at that time.

But those handsets a0me mentioned are compatible with NFC chipsets because NFC is built on that technology. And they implement the discussed features, so I'd say he's pretty much correct.

----------

I was shocked I got so many downvotes, this only shows that there are too many blindly devoted Apple fans here that can't face the truth... My statement actually defends Apple from Android fans who claim Apple stole something, but it seems that unless I praise Apple as if they're the gods then nothing will be deemed acceptable by your regular Apple fanboy... Sad.

You got downvoted because you're wrong. NTT DoCoMo did it first. Not Google.

zijohn
Jun 26, 2012, 11:41 PM
The payment app will be called Passbook Exchange, or something like that, remember Facebook Exchange and Phonebook Exchange?

Espionage32
Jun 26, 2012, 11:51 PM
finally the U.S. will catch up with Japan as far as NFC goes.

dontwalkhand
Jun 27, 2012, 12:27 AM
finally the U.S. will catch up with Japan as far as NFC goes.

I've had PayPass for years.

Japan isn't always first with everything, they got Self Checkouts last :D..And the ones they DO have, are the same NCR ones we have here, with the same voices even, so much for innovation over there :D

a0me
Jun 27, 2012, 09:46 PM
This is RFID, not NFC
I just checked Wikipedia where it says that "NFC standards [...] are based on existing radio-frequency identification (RFID) standards including ISO/IEC 14443 and FeliCa."

It's probably not the same but what's the difference for the average consumer?