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MacRumors
Jun 25, 2012, 07:37 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/25/orbitz-presenting-more-expensive-hotels-to-mac-users/)


Travel shopping site Orbitz (http://www.orbitz.com/) is offering more expensive hotels to Mac users because the company found Mac users prefer more luxurious rooms, reports the Wall Street Journal (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304458604577488822667325882.html).

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/orbitz.png


Orbitz noted that it was is not showing different prices for the same room to different users, but was presenting pricier hotels more prominently to Mac users than those using Windows. Users can rank hotel options by price and get the same listings no matter what platform they are using.
Orbitz found Mac users on average spend $20 to $30 more a night on hotels than their PC counterparts, a significant margin given the site's average nightly hotel booking is around $100, chief scientist Wai Gen Yee said. Mac users are 40% more likely to book a four- or five-star hotel than PC users, Mr. Yee said, and when Mac and PC users book the same hotel, Mac users tend to stay in more expensive rooms.

"We had the intuition, and we were able to confirm it based on the data," Orbitz Chief Technology Officer Roger Liew said.The WSJ goes on (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304458604577488822667325882.html) to note that the average household income for adult owners of Macs is $98,560, according to Forrester Research, versus $74,452 for a PC owner. The paper also says that some high-end hotels see bookings from Mac users hugely out of proportion with their user share on Orbitz.

The targeting efforts are part of Orbitz's "predictive analytics" efforts -- using gathered data to offer more tailored results to shoppers in order to generate more revenue.

Article Link: Orbitz Presenting More Expensive Hotels to Mac Users (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/25/orbitz-presenting-more-expensive-hotels-to-mac-users/)



BrownManUPS
Jun 25, 2012, 07:40 PM
And yet people whine when an app is more than 99 cents. :rolleyes:

SprodeBoy
Jun 25, 2012, 07:40 PM
Very interesting. Wondering how the community (Mac and pc) Will respond to this:rolleyes:

pgiguere1
Jun 25, 2012, 07:41 PM
This makes the front page?

goobot
Jun 25, 2012, 07:41 PM
And yet people whine when an app is more than 99 cents. :rolleyes:

Usually 10 year olds who use/got their devices from their parents.

Small White Car
Jun 25, 2012, 07:42 PM
No problem here.

This sounds a lot like Apple going from 16 GB / 32 GB iPhones to offering 16/32/64.

Adding something extra at the top never hurt anyone. It's not like they're not showing the us the cheaper options.

portishead
Jun 25, 2012, 07:42 PM
Not really surprising but PC fanboys will figure out a way to spin this to mean Apple users are all terrible people.

donga
Jun 25, 2012, 07:43 PM
Isn't this like page two stuff?

ghsNick
Jun 25, 2012, 07:45 PM
*Note To Self*

If I ever shop on Orbitz (since I never do) do it from a PC...lol.

sshambles
Jun 25, 2012, 07:45 PM
Page 2 please.

newyorksole
Jun 25, 2012, 07:46 PM
Duhh. We get moneyyyy.

Dr Charter
Jun 25, 2012, 07:46 PM
It's alright Orbitz. Since I just bought a rMBP, I'll be sleeping in my car for awhile anyway. :D

Tilpots
Jun 25, 2012, 07:48 PM
Sounds right to me. If a company sees blue people spending 20% more on their higher end offerings, show blue people higher end things more prominently.

Gemütlichkeit
Jun 25, 2012, 07:49 PM
kinda stupid really.

but whatever

Fiveos22
Jun 25, 2012, 07:50 PM
Slow news day.

rei101
Jun 25, 2012, 07:51 PM
Based on the income they have on file I should have a PC then.

digitaljawa
Jun 25, 2012, 07:55 PM
It's because we're ****ing classy.

W1MRK
Jun 25, 2012, 07:55 PM
If I log in on a Commodore 64, do I get a discount?

Mjmar
Jun 25, 2012, 07:56 PM
Makes sense, Macs are luxury products after all...

DavidTheExpert
Jun 25, 2012, 07:56 PM
I'm okay with being elitist.

Stewie86
Jun 25, 2012, 07:57 PM
That's computerism.

Big-TDI-Guy
Jun 25, 2012, 07:57 PM
People who own Ferraris tend to have nicer than average homes too! We could be onto something here... ;)

If only I could browse Orbitz with an Etch-A-Sketch...

chrono1081
Jun 25, 2012, 07:57 PM
I'm never using Orbitz now. A room is a room. I don't want to be shown the higher priced stuff just because I'm on a Mac.

I'd rather spend my money on fun things on my vacation not a hotel room.

Shrink
Jun 25, 2012, 07:58 PM
The real problem is that after buying a couple of Apple devices there is no money left for anything more expensive than a Holiday Inn. :p:D

G51989
Jun 25, 2012, 08:02 PM
Makes sense, Macs are luxury products after all...

No

JadedRaverLA
Jun 25, 2012, 08:03 PM
I like this, personally. Targeting ads doesn't bother me -- but I don't really want you tracking me or keeping a record of my search history. Providing results more finely tuned based on non personal info (browser, OS, etc) sounds like a good middle ground in situations like this.

I would think simple "Apple users probably aren't cheapskates" logic could be used by many retailers across categories. And they'd mostly be right. I want to save money as much as the next person, but I'm also not going seek out a less nice, less convenient hotel just to save a few bucks.

jav6454
Jun 25, 2012, 08:07 PM
Stupid logic. I want to spend on fun rather than a room I just sleep in for a few nights...

AidenShaw
Jun 25, 2012, 08:08 PM
More than 1000 words...

http://renewaldynamics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Sheep-Fleece.jpg

a1exey1azar
Jun 25, 2012, 08:11 PM
Safari -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Select "Show Develop menu in menu bar -> Chose "User Agent" -> Select any client for "Windows". Problem solved

PVisitors
Jun 25, 2012, 08:12 PM
It's kinda funny seeing the PC side reaction to this.

Apparently this is hilarious. Fanboy or not, I fail to see what is so funny about a site changing results for a Mac computer? Must be a pretty boring life if this is "awesome" "hilarious" "laugh out loud".

I bet google adsense which suggests adverts depending on what you looked at via cookies is equally hilarious for them too.

ladeer
Jun 25, 2012, 08:12 PM
and people using retina macbook pro are even richer on average, so websites of the world, please wise up and OPTIMIZE YOUR SITES ALREADY!
We are your best customers!

p.s. although i do strictly book 5 star lodging on these websites, to be honest they are not really 5 stars. Trump Las Vegas for example, or Ritz Carlton Four Seasons in Chicago, should be only 4 stars. The Ritz Carlton in Chicago is dated and even combine the marble bath tub with the shower in one unit instead of separating the bathtub from shower as well as a separate toilet room.

faroZ06
Jun 25, 2012, 08:15 PM
This is why I fake my user agent. I can just go for "Windows Chrome" whenever something like this is going on.

Well, can't blame them! Good job on their in-depth customer research.

----------

More than 1000 words...

Image (http://renewaldynamics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Sheep-Fleece.jpg)

Sheepshaver, the Mac OS 8 & 9 emulator for Intel Macs? That thing is pretty cool but useless.

ladeer
Jun 25, 2012, 08:15 PM
I'm never using Orbitz now. A room is a room. I don't want to be shown the higher priced stuff just because I'm on a Mac.

I'd rather spend my money on fun things on my vacation not a hotel room.

price for a given room is the same. they just show pricier hotels on top instead of the budget lodging choices first. (read the article)

faroZ06
Jun 25, 2012, 08:18 PM
No

If you buy new, yes. The cheapest Mac is $700. Most people ignore the Mac Mini anyway, making it $1000 for the cheapest Mac that people actually buy. You're forced to buy high-end.

Now, used is a different story.

----------

price for a given room is the same. they just show pricier hotels on top instead of the budget lodging choices first. (read the article)

And you can always fake your user agent in Safari and FireFox (another reason I don't use Chrome).

switcher3365
Jun 25, 2012, 08:19 PM
Safari -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Select "Show Develop menu in menu bar -> Chose "User Agent" -> Select any client for "Windows". Problem solved

This is neat! I pretended my MacBook Pro was an iPhone.

0815
Jun 25, 2012, 08:21 PM
I'm never using Orbitz now. A room is a room. I don't want to be shown the higher priced stuff just because I'm on a Mac.

I'd rather spend my money on fun things on my vacation not a hotel room.

Let me guess: You just read the headline and skipped the actual article ...

faroZ06
Jun 25, 2012, 08:21 PM
This is neat! I pretended my MacBook Pro was an iPhone.

I got a JB plugin for my iPhone that lets me do this on iOS. It's great for getting around dumb mobile sites. I can pretend to be on Windows Chrome.

QCassidy352
Jun 25, 2012, 08:24 PM
and people using retina macbook pro are even richer on average, so websites of the world, please wise up and OPTIMIZE YOUR SITES ALREADY!
We are your best customers!

p.s. although i do strictly book 5 star lodging on these websites, to be honest they are not really 5 stars. Trump Las Vegas for example, or Ritz Carlton Four Seasons in Chicago, should be only 4 stars. The Ritz Carlton in Chicago is dated and even combine the marble bath tub with the shower in one unit instead of separating the bathtub from shower as well as a separate toilet room.

Really excellent troll. I give it 5 stars.

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 25, 2012, 08:25 PM
And yet people whine when an app is more than 99 cents. :rolleyes:

Those are former iPhone users who've converted to Androids and still frequent the iPhone forums ;)

Peace
Jun 25, 2012, 08:25 PM
Front page on MR ?


Great free advertising for Orbitz.

pipa
Jun 25, 2012, 08:26 PM
If I log in on a Commodore 64, do I get a discount?

That's the funniest **** over

0815
Jun 25, 2012, 08:30 PM
Yes, they figured it out: If you use a Mac, it shows that you like high quality and don't mind to pay a bit more to enjoy the high quality instead of getting a dirt cheap ****** machine. That easily translates to you rather pay a bit more for a nice room instead of booking a ****** cheap room ... and I have to admit, it is true for me - I rather book a 4 or 5 star room that I enjoy instead of a 2 or 3 star that might disgust me.

puckhead193
Jun 25, 2012, 08:33 PM
This is why I fake my user agent. I can just go for "Windows Chrome" whenever something like this is going on.

Well, can't blame them! Good job on their in-depth customer research

I sorta have to agree from a research/marking view its interesting but is still wrong to assume that Mac users like better hotels.

powers74
Jun 25, 2012, 08:34 PM
*******s!

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=orbitz_blows

really? Hope you feel better.

0815
Jun 25, 2012, 08:35 PM
I sorta have to agree from a research/marking view its interesting but is still wrong to assume that Mac users like better hotels.

Whenever I look on any of those pages for hotels, I usually ignore the default results and set the star rating to my personal preference ... it's not that they show you only the expensive ones, you can still filter for the cheap ones if you want.

chevman
Jun 25, 2012, 08:40 PM
This type of analytics is table stakes for anyone that knows anything about targeted marketing (or whatever you want to call it these days).

Any data point you can use to more effectively segment your audience and drive increased revenue/margin is going to be utilized.

Dynamically serving up web content/results based on strings in the browser user-agent?

EASY.

jontech
Jun 25, 2012, 08:44 PM
this is a no brainer


Do people who don't like to spend money spend less money than those that like to spend money.


All my PC and Android friends buy PC's and Androids for one reason only. They don't want to spend money on software and apps. These same folks would rather spend the night at a motel 6 as they see no value in a nicer hotel

There is nothing wrong with that as they don't see value in the same things as other folks.

It is wise of Orbitz to market based on what people want and are willing to buy

I'll use them next time to avoid the 1 and 2 star recommendations :)

----------

This type of analytics is table stakes for anyone that knows anything about targeted marketing (or whatever you want to call it these days).

Any data point you can use to more effectively segment your audience and drive increased revenue/margin is going to be utilized.

Dynamically serving up web content/results based on strings in the browser user-agent?

EASY.

Good point and I am glad they are doing so. It saves me the time of removing the options for poor hotels

Rocketman
Jun 25, 2012, 08:47 PM
I am one of the folks skewing the bots higher.

msimpson
Jun 25, 2012, 08:49 PM
I would pay extra to stay in a hotel that did not have Windows or Android fan bois any day.

koolmagicguy
Jun 25, 2012, 08:51 PM
Since when do computer owners make more than 70,000 a year? If I made that I'd have no problem paying more for a hotel.

iSayuSay
Jun 25, 2012, 08:54 PM
I don't know man, even people with $20.000/year income could afford a Mac, it's not like you would buy Mac each month. People would use it for 2 - 3years maybe.

What's the basic of Mac user get more expensive offers? PC side could be crazy too. AlienWare users could spend much more than us. Do they get more offers?

AidenShaw
Jun 25, 2012, 08:55 PM
I am one of the folks skewing the bots higher.

...and I mess things up booking the five-stars from my PC.

I loved a recent stay at a five-star in Tahiti for just under $1500 per night. A bargain!

lilo777
Jun 25, 2012, 08:56 PM
kinda stupid really.

but whatever

Stupid? Why? They know what they are doing (i.e. profits). What this says about some Apple fans is a totally different story.

mikefla
Jun 25, 2012, 08:57 PM
How absurd! It's the equivalent of racial profiling on the Immigrants on the US. But again windows users are cheap, they are well aware that both their OS and their support is outsourced!

-Mike

scoobydoo99
Jun 25, 2012, 08:57 PM
Makes sense, and fits my hotel buying habits. I like.

robeddie
Jun 25, 2012, 08:57 PM
This makes the front page?

Seriously dude? You've been on macrumors for 3 years now so I'm sure you've seen that just about every other story some douche complains that 'this shouldn't be front page news'.

Get over it.

It's a silly little mac rumors site. Not the New York Times.

saud0488
Jun 25, 2012, 09:02 PM
Aren't mac users also more likely to use credit rather than cash? Having more expensive taste doesn't mean you can necessarily afford it. Unfortunately amongst the younger generation, credit has gone from being a convenience tool to one that is used to borrow money.

----------

How absurd! It's the equivalent of racial profiling on the Immigrants on the US. But again windows users are cheap, they are well aware that both their OS and their support is outsourced!

-Mike

You couldn't make this post dumber if you tried. How is it like profiling exactly?

Outsourced....like how all apple products are made in and assembled in China by Foxconn? Or Mexico? or Brazil?

----------

I don't know man, even people with $20.000/year income could afford a Mac, it's not like you would buy Mac each month. People would use it for 2 - 3years maybe.

What's the basic of Mac user get more expensive offers? PC side could be crazy too. AlienWare users could spend much more than us. Do they get more offers?

Exactly. Or just about every college student since most happen to be over the age of 18. Since macs typically last longer, wouldn't the windows user end up spending just as much on their computer over time?

marc11
Jun 25, 2012, 09:04 PM
Since when do computer owners make more than 70,000 a year? If I made that I'd have no problem paying more for a hotel.

What???? What does owning a computer have to do with annual income? So if I make more than $xxxxx I do not need nor have a use for a computer? Also just because you make more money doesn't mean you have more disposable income nor does it mean you have the want or need to spend it.

I find some of the lemmings here hilarious; stating you are okay with spending more money on a hotel because you own an Apple product....really? But before you purchased an apple product you stated in cheap hotels? So let's see to the elitists posers, if you use your iPhone to buy your coffee at Starbucks, then you do not mind Starbucks charging you more just because you own an iPhone right? Come on **** with that!

And in the end, this is not what orbitz is doing, but they should at least all you to select your display and sort preferences to show cheapest or most expensive or star ratings in any order you wish

fins831
Jun 25, 2012, 09:05 PM
Just waiting for someone to blame this on Obama....

Roc P.
Jun 25, 2012, 09:05 PM
lol it took me nearly a year to save up for my iMac and iPad 2 (I also own a MacBook and PPC iMac G5) ... I have such a low paying job that I haven't been able to even THINK about a vacation let alone a hotel room in over a decade. Some of us Apple lovers definitely do not have the means to spend more.

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 09:07 PM
I get a kick that they pretend they do this to help people. Right. This is like how Pemco inflates the price of insurance if you get a PhD. Any excuse to pad the bottom line.

Next up: Google isn't evil because they say they aren't. Now give them all your information.

AidenShaw
Jun 25, 2012, 09:08 PM
lol it took me nearly a year to save up for my iMac and iPad 2 (I also own a MacBook and PPC iMac G5) ... I have such a low paying job that I haven't been able to even THINK about a vacation let alone a hotel room in over a decade. Some of us Apple lovers definitely do not have the means to spend more.

Consider sending less of your money to Cupertino - you'd have more to spend on other things.

b166er
Jun 25, 2012, 09:08 PM
how much I spend on a room has nothing to do with my computer. Am I trying to have a romantic weekend or just a place to crash so I don't have to drive home drunk? That's the stuff that drives my choice in hotel.

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 25, 2012, 09:09 PM
A/B testing is the norm for all major ecommerce sites. Orbitz is just one of the few that has illustrated how they are using it.

JtheLemur
Jun 25, 2012, 09:12 PM
we be ballin' fo reals

chrono1081
Jun 25, 2012, 09:17 PM
Let me guess: You just read the headline and skipped the actual article ...

Nope. I read the article. I don't like when companies pull BS like this. Just when I forget which travel site used to increase prices if you were a frequent visitor.

price for a given room is the same. they just show pricier hotels on top instead of the budget lodging choices first. (read the article)

I did read the article. Its still not acceptable. Its purposely making it harder to find the cheaper rooms.

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 09:17 PM
A/B testing is the norm for all major ecommerce sites. Orbitz is just one of the few that has illustrated how they are using it.

There is that site (forgot the name) that adds something like 10% if you're browsing with IE. The difference is they're vocal about it and state the reasons for them doing it (they have to develop independently for IE and hate you). They don't hide it and then spin it as a service for the people they think they can get more money out of.

Mac2133
Jun 25, 2012, 09:19 PM
What the.... !!:eek:

AidenShaw
Jun 25, 2012, 09:20 PM
how much I spend on a room has nothing to do with my computer. Am I trying to have a romantic weekend or just a place to crash so I don't have to drive home drunk? That's the stuff that drives my choice in hotel.

True, but could have been phrased a little better. Living about an hour south of San Francisco, there have been times when we've booked a room at a hotel in the city within walking distance of an event - so that the "designated driver" thing was the next morning. (If it's a $500/plate dinner, the extra cost of a hotel room isn't a biggie).

But, if Orbitz has found a better way to fleece the sheep - more power to them.

iVoid
Jun 25, 2012, 09:22 PM
guess I won't be using Orbitz any more.

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 25, 2012, 09:25 PM
Nope. I read the article. I don't like when companies pull BS like this. Just when I forget which travel site used to increase prices if you were a frequent visitor.

--------

I did read the article. Its still not acceptable. Its purposely making it harder to find the cheaper rooms.

You don't get it....EVERY eCommerce site is doing this. ALL of them, at least all of them that are successful.

In fact, you'd have to look long and hard to find a single site you purchase goods/services from that DOESNT operate using A/B testing to fine-tune their sites and then add on user profile-driven criteria to refine the experience you get. Heck, even Google does this with searches.

There was a whole article on this in Wired a couple months ago.

http://www.wired.com/business/2012/04/ff_abtesting/

Radio
Jun 25, 2012, 09:26 PM
I'm okay with being elitist.

And being a poor college student?

Why is it that poor college kids have Mac book pros to browse Facebook?

That's not elitist.

That's stupid.

gatortpk
Jun 25, 2012, 09:27 PM
Those are former iPhone users who've converted to Androids and still frequent the iPhone forums ;)

I know one person who converted to an Android (a nice one, at least for Android; Samsung), she quickly got the iPhone 4S after that.

So I still know of no one that is a former iOS user.

ad2435
Jun 25, 2012, 09:29 PM
hey, if you can overpay for a computer you can overpay for a hotel room.

just imagine steve jobs slept there and pay even more.

chrono1081
Jun 25, 2012, 09:31 PM
You don't get it....EVERY eCommerce site is doing this. ALL of them, at least all of them that are successful.

In fact, you'd have to look long and hard to find a single site you purchase goods/services from that DOESNT operate using A/B testing to fine-tune their sites and then add on user profile-driven criteria to refine the experience you get. Heck, even Google does this with searches.

There was a whole article on this in Wired a couple months ago.

http://www.wired.com/business/2012/04/ff_abtesting/

Yes I assure you, I "get" it. I just don't agree with it.

I don't get why everyone is getting pissy because I think its wrong to try and rip of a customer. Grow up. I can have an opinion just like everyone else. I personally don't like sites that do this.

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 09:34 PM
Yes I assure you, I "get" it. I just don't agree with it.

I don't get why everyone is getting pissy because I think its wrong to try and rip of a customer. Grow up. I can have an opinion just like everyone else. I personally don't like sites that do this.

Not everyone, I think this is a pretty lame thing to do (and yeah, lots of people do it). What I particularly don't like here is that they're pretending this is for your own good and it has nothing to do with their bottom line.

rockosmodurnlif
Jun 25, 2012, 09:35 PM
Isn't this like page two stuff?
Page 2? Are you posting from 2005?

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 09:37 PM
Page 2? Are you posting from 2005?

Dude, don't tell him the Powerbook G5 isn't going to come out...oh whoops, my bad.

ChrisTX
Jun 25, 2012, 09:38 PM
I hate the idea of paying more just because I can, but it's true I'd rather stay in a nicer hotel, than an average, or less than average one.

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 09:40 PM
Anyone else find it ironic that we're getting spammed the instant they post this story?

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 25, 2012, 09:46 PM
Yes I assure you, I "get" it. I just don't agree with it.

I don't get why everyone is getting pissy because I think its wrong to try and rip of a customer. Grow up. I can have an opinion just like everyone else. I personally don't like sites that do this.

Fine, but they ALL do it. See that banner ad up at the top of this forum? You must not like this because I guarantee you that right now my banner ad is different than the one being shown to you.

How exactly are you being "ripped off" because Orbitz pushes a higher priced hotel offering to you? The cheaper hotels are right there, you just have to scroll down a bit further than say a Windows user.

Where exactly is the "ripoff" occurring? Did you pay some special fee to use Orbitz that the rest of us don't? Did they take control of your keyboard and force you to cough up a credit card purchase for the higher priced location?

If anyone is getting pissy, its you....and by your remarks, the opinion you are expressing is based on inaccurate information. Which, more than likely, is where you are most comfortable in life.

chrono1081
Jun 25, 2012, 09:49 PM
Fine, but they ALL do it. See that banner ad up at the top of this forum? You must not like this because I guarantee you that right now my banner ad is different than the one being shown to you.

How exactly are you being "ripped off" because Orbitz pushes a higher priced hotel offering to you? The cheaper hotels are right there, you just have to scroll down a bit further than say a Windows user.

Where exactly is the "ripoff" occurring? Did you pay some special fee to use Orbitz that the rest of us don't? Did they take control of your keyboard and force you to cough up a credit card purchase for the higher priced location?

If anyone is getting pissy, its you....and by your remarks, the opinion you are expressing is based on inaccurate information. Which, more than likely, is where you are most comfortable in life.

Notice the word "try" in front of the word "rip off".

Read before you speak.

Anyway I'm done arguing. I don't like companies trying to upsell me based on the computer I use. If you like it fine but I think its a shady practice.

faroZ06
Jun 25, 2012, 09:54 PM
I sorta have to agree from a research/marking view its interesting but is still wrong to assume that Mac users like better hotels.

On average, they do, so I think it's fair to assume that. It's like how ads on Facebook tend to be related to your interests. By the way, the guy who made that FB advertising system (or at least part of it) went to my school.

----------

See that banner ad up at the top of this forum?

Nope. :cool:

----------

Dude, don't tell him the Powerbook G5 isn't going to come out...oh whoops, my bad.

PowerBook G5... now THAT is a bad idea. I think it would melt.

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 09:54 PM
Fine, but they ALL do it. See that banner ad up at the top of this forum? You must not like this because I guarantee you that right now my banner ad is different than the one being shown to you.

How exactly are you being "ripped off" because Orbitz pushes a higher priced hotel offering to you? The cheaper hotels are right there, you just have to scroll down a bit further than say a Windows user.

Where exactly is the "ripoff" occurring? Did you pay some special fee to use Orbitz that the rest of us don't? Did they take control of your keyboard and force you to cough up a credit card purchase for the higher priced location?

If anyone is getting pissy, its you....and by your remarks, the opinion you are expressing is based on inaccurate information. Which, more than likely, is where you are most comfortable in life.

Lets pretend you and your friend go to a car dealership. You get quoted a fair price. Your friend gets quoted a higher price (pick a reason, female, old, young, whatever) and must haggle to get it down because they don't need the super expensive floor mats. When confronted on the issue the person claims that data shows that female, old, young, whatever people prefer expensive floor mats.

We all know what is going on here. They aren't doing it for you. They're doing it to pad their bottom line and they're lying to a subset of their customers. That is the problem.

mlmwalt
Jun 25, 2012, 09:55 PM
Good thing I don't use Orbitz. I'm a Marriott & Wyndam club member so I wouldn't be eligible for the double points booking through the discount site anyway.

applesith
Jun 25, 2012, 09:56 PM
I use Priceline.

faroZ06
Jun 25, 2012, 10:00 PM
****s!

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=orbitz_blows

really? Hope you feel better.

I don't know much about Orbitz, but their tactics mentioned on this article are not unethical. I thought Orbitz was a gum brand...

----------

Lets pretend you and your friend go to a car dealership. You get quoted a fair price. Your friend gets quoted a higher price (pick a reason, female, old, young, whatever) and must haggle to get it down because they don't need the super expensive floor mats. When confronted on the issue the person claims that data shows that female, old, young, whatever people prefer expensive floor mats.

We all know what is going on here. They aren't doing it for you. They're doing it to pad their bottom line and they're lying to a subset of their customers. That is the problem.

I'm more worried about the heightened auto insurance costs that are imposed simply because I am male. If statistics showed that females were more aggressive drivers, I'll bet they wouldn't raise the price for them anyway.

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 25, 2012, 10:00 PM
Lets pretend you and your friend go to a car dealership. You get quoted a fair price. Your friend gets quoted a higher price (pick a reason, female, old, young, whatever) and must haggle to get it down because they don't need the super expensive floor mats. When confronted on the issue the person claims that data shows that female, old, young, whatever people prefer expensive floor mats.

First: This is how car dealerships have worked for decades. So I'm not sure why you find this a hypothetical situation at all.

Second: So are you _REALLY_ trying to make a case that age/sex discriminatory practices are equivalent to Mac/Windows 'profiling' practices? One is illegal and unethical. The other is called "marketing." Caveat emptor.

Businesses trying to improve their sell thru? Wow....color me shocked. That's equivalent to high treason!



Nope. :cool:



You fancy Flash-blocking-plugin-user you.....

faroZ06
Jun 25, 2012, 10:03 PM
I use Priceline.

On an unrelated note, I just realized what your signature is talking about.

----------

First: This is how car dealerships have worked for decades. So I'm not sure why you find this a hypothetical situation at all.

Second: So are you _REALLY_ trying to make a case that age/sex discriminatory practices are equivalent to Mac/Windows 'profiling' practices?

Businesses trying to improve their sell thru? Wow....color me shocked. That's equivalent to high treason!

It's not discrimination. They just show certain people the more expensive models. They can still opt for cheaper ones.

b166er
Jun 25, 2012, 10:06 PM
this is no different than a tourist town charging more for a product than a center of the state town. It's not fair, ethical, etc- but it's very common and there are numerous ways to not pay more money if you don't want to. They are not excluding you from the less expensive options, they are just making you dig for them. I agree it's sleazy to make assumptions based on the computer someone owns, but companies are companies because they did well at making profits.

Example- there used to be an amazing restaurant that I frequented. The owner was an amazing cook and a great person. She undercharged and over-served, which kept the loyal people coming back again and again. But it was terrible for her bottom line and the business went belly up. She did everything she could to please her customers and it was her undoing- that's where the moral to all this is.

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 10:10 PM
First: This is how car dealerships have worked for decades. So I'm not sure why you find this a hypothetical situation at all.

Doesn't mean we have to like it. Seriously, there are a couple people in this thread saying they don't like this practice and wish they'd stop lying. You then come in and say "you fool, everyone does this and it isn't unethical". You might as well just start screaming "bananas" over and over because it makes just as much sense.

Second: So are you _REALLY_ trying to make a case that age/sex discriminatory practices are equivalent to Mac/Windows 'profiling' practices? One is illegal and unethical. The other is called "marketing." Caveat emptor.

Both cases are discrimination based on correlation in an effort to increase margins. Both are have the ability to get the other price but must take more time and effort to get the same final price. I never suggested that the gender or age or education level (all used as differentiators, as you admitted) is being used to completely deny the price or to prevent the person from owning property or voting. Feel free to say that I'm comparing this to Orbitz removing customers' constitutional rights, though. You'd be wrong but you can go ahead and say that.

Businesses trying to improve their sell thru? Wow....color me shocked. That's equivalent to high treason!

Customers wanting to be treated with respect and not lied to? Wow...color me shocked. That's equivalent to high treason!

I noticed you didn't quote the second paragraph because contained my point and not something you could easily turn into a straw man. Pity, I was hoping for a real conversation.

Example- there used to be an amazing restaurant that I frequented. The owner was an amazing cook and a great person. She undercharged and over-served, which kept the loyal people coming back again and again. But it was terrible for her bottom line and the business went belly up. She did everything she could to please her customers and it was her undoing- that's where the moral to all this is.

That isn't comparable. She could have instead of undercharging attempted to charge a sustainable rate. What we're dealing with here would be equivalent to her arbitrarily changing the menu with no input from the customers and then explaining/lying how she did it to make their lives easier when she got caught.

I'm more worried about the heightened auto insurance costs that are imposed simply because I am male. If statistics showed that females were more aggressive drivers, I'll bet they wouldn't raise the price for them anyway.

And one company really does increase your rate if you have PhD. The entire thing is based completely on correlation with no thought of causation.

chevman
Jun 25, 2012, 10:12 PM
They aren't doing it for you. They're doing it to pad their bottom line and they're lying to a subset of their customers. That is the problem.

How is this lying exactly?

I would say this is just introducing another variable into their pricing mechanism - no different than varying the price based on any other factor - time of day you searched, amount of inventory at the hotel, etc, etc.

ixodes
Jun 25, 2012, 10:13 PM
This is an example of the value of technology appropriately applied in marketing. It's target marketing done right. The same concept Apple & other highly successful companies deploy.

The good news is this story is likely to fade quickly, and they'll be able to continue. It's good for the market, the business and the economy.

I have no problem paying the premium prices I have consistently paid over the years for PowerBooks & MacBook Pro's. I get what I want & Apple benefits from the sales.

Price is relative and irrelevant in many cases. For verification of this fact, one need only go to your favorite search engine & compare prices on luxury goods.

It's as simple as that :)

Amazing Iceman
Jun 25, 2012, 10:14 PM
Usually 10 year olds who use/got their devices from their parents.

Or parent who don't understand what their 10 year olds want to buy. :D

kiljoy616
Jun 25, 2012, 10:15 PM
And yet people whine when an app is more than 99 cents. :rolleyes:

Only PC users with iPhones do that.

Yes Mac users do tend to like better hotels and be able to pay for them.

Lets be for real, do any real long time Mac users whine about prices, I doubt it. :p

GeeEllBee
Jun 25, 2012, 10:17 PM
Oh wow, wondering if Orbitz has an algorithm in place that will differentiate Macs owned by Apple retail clerks (probably older hardware since they can't afford what customers buy) from those of, say, the Tim Cooks of the universe and that, consequently and in kind, will spew out very cheap hotel recommendations in the seediest areas of town? And hey, if those clerks don't like their pay they can always apply for Mr. Cook's position or similar. No one is blocking them.

MacInTO
Jun 25, 2012, 10:18 PM
A good reason to boycott Orbitz.

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 10:20 PM
How is this lying exactly?

I would say this is just introducing another variable into their pricing mechanism - no different than varying the price based on any other factor - time of day you searched, amount of inventory at the hotel, etc, etc.

The site has an explicitly stated goal of attempting to save the customer money. They then hide prices that are cheaper and most likely have a smaller margin for them. Their stated purpose to the customer is in conflict with that action. Either their statement is a lie or they are incompetent.

This is an example of the value of technology appropriately applied in marketing. It's target marketing done right. The same concept Apple & other highly successful companies deploy.

The good news is this story is likely to fade quickly, and they'll be able to continue. It's good for the market, the business and the economy.

I have no problem paying the premium prices I have consistently paid over the years for PowerBooks & MacBook Pro's. I get what I want & Apple benefits from the sales.

Price is relative and irrelevant in many cases. For verification of this fact, one need only go to your favorite search engine & compare prices on luxury goods.

It's as simple as that :)

You're conflating paying for quality with deal hunting being obscured based on sloppy correlation.

Michaelgtrusa
Jun 25, 2012, 10:26 PM
...and Android users?

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 10:28 PM
...and Android users?

They're only quoted for places like this (http://theinfosphere.org/Apartment_00100100).

pun555
Jun 25, 2012, 10:38 PM
-
Poor PC guys

Eidorian
Jun 25, 2012, 10:49 PM
I recall years ago Crucial actually changed their RAM prices based on the incoming user agent you used. Orbitz is not going that far but still...

polaris20
Jun 25, 2012, 10:55 PM
What happens if I log in from my Linux machine? Or my Mac, but I'm using a browser in a Citrix session running on Windows? :D

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 10:56 PM
What happens if I log in from my Linux machine? Or my Mac, but I'm using a browser in a Citrix session running on Windows? :D

I'm assuming they're just using the user agent string.

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 25, 2012, 11:18 PM
Customers wanting to be treated with respect and not lied to? Wow...color me shocked. That's equivalent to high treason!

I noticed you didn't quote the second paragraph because contained my point and not something you could easily turn into a straw man. Pity, I was hoping for a real conversation.


I didn't quote your second "point" because frankly, I think you have no basis for making a case that Orbitz is "lying" to their customers and/or breaching their "promises" that they've made.

Here's an example. Where exactly is this list of hotel prices in downtown Chicago representing a "lie" to me as a potential customer and/or breaching their promise? Heck, the way their published "Low Price Guarantee" works, if I find the same hotel room priced cheaper, including their own site, I get money back. I could earn a living off of their misbehavior if they actually were attempting to charge me (a Mac user) a higher price than a Windows user.

I will say one thing, however, as a resident of Chicago. The Congress Hotel is in no way, shape or form a "Best Value" at any price. Period.

JAQ
Jun 25, 2012, 11:20 PM
I hope these idiots are "correcting" for geography too, because those "average" figures are just insane for around here, whether Mac or Windows user. My household income isn't even in that league. That doesn't mean I'm poor, just that I live in a medium-sized city in the Midwest.

I own a Mac because it's a better computer, and that's worth a little more money to me. That doesn't mean I'm some pampered upper-class twit who likes to piss away money on overpriced hotels. In the future I'll stick to other services, which hopefully won't assume that because I use a 5-year-old iMac, I can afford to waste money when I travel.

NAG
Jun 25, 2012, 11:24 PM
I didn't quote your second "point" because frankly, I think you have no basis for making a case that Orbitz is "lying" to their customers and/or breaching their "promises" that they've made.

Oh we're going for the legal definition as far as how much they can fudge things? Okay then.

This conversation is going no where because you are not only okay with but you condone behavior where lie by omission or falsely implying something is a-okay because they didn't explicitly say something they are legally liable for. And why? Because greed is good, apparently.

tech4all
Jun 25, 2012, 11:29 PM
And you can always fake your user agent in Safari and FireFox (another reason I don't use Chrome).

Yea cause clearly faking your user agent is important to 99.99% of users. :rolleyes:

ArtOfWarfare
Jun 25, 2012, 11:39 PM
And yet people whine when an app is more than 99 cents. :rolleyes:

Not so. That's the iOS app store, which has all the iOS users in it, many of whom use PCs. The Mac OS app store apps command higher prices than their iOS app store app counterparts (thus why I have stopped supporting iOS... I've found that for the same amount of time/effort, I can get about 10x as much revenue by targeting Mac OS users rather than iOS users... although I think I'm going to experiment with using a free iOS app to promote a fairly expensive ($9.99ish - the highest price I've ever tried before was $2.99, so it's new territory for me,) Mac OS app...

x5tuu
Jun 25, 2012, 11:51 PM
Im really stunned at people getting so wound up over such a low amount of fiscal difference in the order of presented results, just select the cheapest rooms first ordering, is it really that difficult?!?

Plus worst case scenario, it's what $20 or about £15, please that's almost nothing per night additional especially once room taxes etc... are added

jontech
Jun 25, 2012, 11:55 PM
...and Android users?
Android users don't pay for hotel rooms

They just root the front desk and get thier room for free

scottsjack
Jun 26, 2012, 12:01 AM
Makes sense, Macs are luxury products after all...

It could be that Macs are tools needed to do a job.

earwax69
Jun 26, 2012, 12:16 AM
Rich kids on L:apple:D

Undecided
Jun 26, 2012, 12:21 AM
If I log in on a Commodore 64, do I get a discount?

I just had to google it. You actually could get a C64 on the net, surfing web pages. That's pretty cool.

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 26, 2012, 12:29 AM
Oh we're going for the legal definition as far as how much they can fudge things? Okay then.

This conversation is going no where because you are not only okay with but you condone behavior where lie by omission or falsely implying something is a-okay because they didn't explicitly say something they are legally liable for. And why? Because greed is good, apparently.

Legal definition? No, I'm not using a legal definition. I'm using a graphical example of how the data is actually represented on their site. You are the one making claims that their site tuning by user profile represents a lie, an omission of truth and a false implication of "something" but you've yet to prove any of this and the evidence is right there in front of you. I just can't for the life of me figure out how you can draw deceptive business practices out of something so simple as a suggestive sales technique. By your standards "Would you like fries with that?" is equivalent to a death threat (well....ok, I may agree with you a bit there if that's the case).

By any definition, a lie is an overt attempt to deceive someone by intentionally not telling the truth.

So I'll ask again....where are they intentionally attempting to deceive you, the customer? You've made some pretty bold claims that they are lying (multiple times now). All I'm asking you is to prove your point.

By pushing higher priced hotels (not differently priced....different hotels/rooms that are priced higher) to customers that their own profiling suggests are willing to pay higher prices for a nights' sleep...how is this a lie?

Using your car analogy....a well-dressed customer comes into the GM dealer and the sales person pushes them to the Buick side of the lot rather than the Chevy side, or a dude dressed like a cowboy gets shuttled over to the GM Truck side of the lot right away. Is that lying/deceptive/discriminatory or is that just "reading the customer" and trying for the best sale? The customer can always say "No thanks, I prefer a Chevy" and that's exactly what you can do on Orbitz' site as well if you wish.

Again, if you read the article its pretty clear that they are suggesting higher priced venues....but not charging different prices to two different profiles. Both customers can get the same room, same price, low price guarantee intact if they wish.

So again:

-Where are they lying, fibbing, cheating or "fill in word for deceptive trade practices here"?
-Where are they intentionally attempting to deceive a customer?
-Where is the customer being cheated in any fashion whatsoever?

Xtremehkr
Jun 26, 2012, 12:39 AM
Not surprising.

MH01
Jun 26, 2012, 12:41 AM
dude, don't tell him the powerbook g5 isn't going to come out...oh whoops, my bad.

what!!!!!!!!!

Nostromo
Jun 26, 2012, 12:45 AM
Now we got it: only the 1% can afford a Mac.

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 26, 2012, 12:46 AM
I know one person who converted to an Android (a nice one, at least for Android; Samsung), she quickly got the iPhone 4S after that.

So I still know of no one that is a former iOS user.

You need to visit the iPhone forums more often. There's a busload of former iPhone users who now have Androids there.

wackymacky
Jun 26, 2012, 12:48 AM
Sucks but stuff like this happns.

I booked a room at a hilton resort in the pacific a couple of weeks ago.

The price of the SAME room was $200 more a night from the US site compared to the international hilton site.

Laird Knox
Jun 26, 2012, 12:53 AM
Oh
My
God

PC users and Mac users pay the same price. The results are ordered differently based on demographics but the prices are the same. Are you people really that dense?

RalfTheDog
Jun 26, 2012, 12:53 AM
Good thing people no longer surf the web using AOL.

SlyBriFry
Jun 26, 2012, 01:06 AM
If I log in on a Commodore 64, do I get a discount?

OMG, I totally spit up my drink when I read that. :-D

children
Jun 26, 2012, 01:08 AM
ill drink the coolaid and stay at hilton suite my next holiday :cool:

knewsom
Jun 26, 2012, 01:14 AM
The best part is, if you're a Linux user, it only shows you campgrounds.

morechicken
Jun 26, 2012, 01:21 AM
I'm never using Orbitz now. A room is a room. I don't want to be shown the higher priced stuff just because I'm on a Mac.

I'd rather spend my money on fun things on my vacation not a hotel room.

Same here. I don't want to care what System I use when I enter a webpage.

----------

I would pay extra to stay in a hotel that did not have Windows or Android fan bois any day.

Says a Apple Fanboi...

Crayo
Jun 26, 2012, 01:21 AM
Same principle works in online advertising: it is a statistical fact that users can be profiled by the hardware and software they use.

I am not talking about tracking cookies on your browser, which are irrelevant nowadays, or anything like that, but simple hardware, OS, browser, geographical location or combinations of those.

For example, Windows/PC users tend to fall more often to ads that makes outrageous promises, like "you've won this product!", while significant portion of Mac users never go for those.

There are also differences in what kind of price range can be advertised - Mac users prefer to buy (and see ads of) more expensive premium products while PC users statistically prefer cheaper. Professionally designed graphics and ads work better for Mac users while simpler (read: bad design/ugly) ads work more often for PC users. The list goes on.

I'm not saying these things to offend anyone - just stating statistical fact that different people use different products which leads to the fact that different people prefer to buy different things. Nothing personal.

I'm quite familiar with this issue because I recently worked on a project for major online advertising platform to build system which optimizes ad feeds based on research done on the subject. For example, profiling by Mac vs. PC has been a great success for them.

I'm not surprised to see that online retailers like Orbitz are doing the same. If you have trouble with that.. I suggest you just get over it. :)

SvenSvenson
Jun 26, 2012, 01:22 AM
but is still wrong to assume that Mac users like better hotels.

Well, according to the article. it's not an assumption, so you're right on that point.

Steve

Piggie
Jun 26, 2012, 01:26 AM
The question we have to consider is:

Would a Mac user, when asking about the cheapest room, actually want the one in the basement, or would they really want to make sure they had the option of being able to use "Windows" in the room :D

ladeer
Jun 26, 2012, 01:30 AM
Really excellent troll. I give it 5 stars.

???

what was so hard to understand about my statement?

obviously the early adopters of retina macbook pro have a higher household income than the average mac users, since we get diluted with a lot of students buying the 13 inch stuff.

in other words, if companies want to attract business from their best potential customers, they should optimize their site for the retina display (embed high resolution images for example) to attract them.

turtlez
Jun 26, 2012, 01:30 AM
is this an ad?

ladeer
Jun 26, 2012, 01:53 AM
Really excellent troll. I give it 5 stars.

sorry it just occurred to me that you were referring to my hotel opinion? to me five star hotel means the best. a "best" hotel does not just earn its five stars from simply having a long list of tangible amenities like sawing kit, 3 flat panel tv including inside bathroom mirror (i.e. signature mgm or venetian), pool, etc.

Best also means service, location (park hyatt beaver creek), view (best spot on a beach e.g. ritz carlton central park and ritz carlton half moon bay), restaurant quality (any michelin star?), wine cellar, etc.

Trump New York SoHo charged me $600/night and was supposed to be "five star" but the carpet had stain, AC unit was frozen. When the engineer came to repair, he wore his shoes into the room without asking if he should take off before entering.

A real 5 star hotel "anticipate" the need of its guest. For example, if you go for a morning jog while staying at Peninsula Hong Kong (a true 5 star hotel), the valet will see you running back and radio the doorman so at the moment you reach the door, the doorman would open the door for you and hand you a bottle of water. (This is true.)

A real five star hotel also strives for perfection in quality. For example, napkins at dinning table should be free of lint (which will get stuck to ur wool pants). You shouldn't find crayon under your bed. The remote control shouldn't feel "grease." The carpet or surface of furniture shouldn't be in dark or busy colors, because they hide how dirty they truly are. In fact, you should be able to see how clean they are. Soap and Shampoo shouldn't be generic brands. (Ritz Carlton's Bvlgari is my favorite.)

A lot of hotels in Las Vegas have crazy list of amenities but really lacking in its quality and service. Even top lodgings such as Wynn fall victims to this. After all, when you only charges a $299/night room, you are going to have patrons who wouldn't take care of your room (think 6 guys sharing a room for a bachelor party). However, if you want to enjoy true 5 star experience at Wynn or Bellagio, you can request for Tower Suite rooms where it's separated accessed/managed. You will get a much better experience that deserve its 5 star rating.

SvenSvenson
Jun 26, 2012, 02:12 AM
Fine, but they ALL do it. See that banner ad up at the top of this forum? <snip> I guarantee you that right now my banner ad is different than the one being shown to you.

Oh yeah? I bet someone's trying to sell you a 6,000mAh battery for an iPad for 75€ right now!

Steve

----------

Lets pretend you and your friend go to a car dealership. You get quoted a fair price. Your friend gets quoted a higher price (pick a reason, female, old, young, whatever) and must haggle to get it down because they don't need the super expensive floor mats. When confronted on the issue the person claims that data shows that female, old, young, whatever people prefer expensive floor mats.

A better analogy is that an elderly couple go in to buy a particular model of car and get shown the 'luxury' model first, as the dealer's data shows that *usually*, elderly couples prefer this model. They are welcome to buy another model.

A young man goes in and is shown the expensive high-performance model, for exactly the same reason. Again, he is welcome to buy another model. The 2 customers may even decide to buy the model usually chosen by the other customer and will pay the same price - no haggling and no increased cost involved.

It's basic salesmanship - if you think the customer will like the more expensive model, then offer/show them that model first. You may not like it, but to believe it doesn't happen is naive.

Steve

macchiato2009
Jun 26, 2012, 02:14 AM
i just put Orbitz in the blocklist of my web browser ;)

Sensation
Jun 26, 2012, 02:16 AM
What about me? My PC is more expensive and superior to any Mac available?

olowott
Jun 26, 2012, 02:22 AM
That's computerism.

:D:D:D:D Seriously Nice One!

----------

Seriously:roll eyes:

Spend More money on Hotel Room, maybe when i get rMBP and I'm worried about proper security n poor internet facilities.

Right now am saving up for my next phone(i), trust me when i say I'm cutting down stupid expenses;)

fairyliquidizer
Jun 26, 2012, 02:48 AM
Universal Mac Tax....

Every web site should produce premium quotes for Mac users as they are less price sensitive than PC users. In fact the Universal Mac Tax should be extended to supermarkets and the high street (main street).

It would be nice to imaging that this in turn would improve consumer businesses (cyclical and non-cyclical) generating a return to growth thus ending the global economic crisis.

Is there evidence of what Apple users shopping habits are beyond Apple branded goods and latte?

runeapple
Jun 26, 2012, 02:51 AM
Safari -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Select "Show Develop menu in menu bar -> Chose "User Agent" -> Select any client for "Windows". Problem solved

Easier on Roccat:

Roccat>user agent > select any client for windows :)

dazed
Jun 26, 2012, 02:56 AM
I wonder how many ambulance chasing lawyers will now sue over being targeted to pay for a more expensive room.

Let the fun times begin.......

Alleged
Jun 26, 2012, 02:58 AM
It's like offering a higher class hooker to the disconcerting gent :cool:

NewAnger
Jun 26, 2012, 03:34 AM
this is a no brainer


Do people who don't like to spend money spend less money than those that like to spend money.


All my PC and Android friends buy PC's and Androids for one reason only. They don't want to spend money on software and apps. These same folks would rather spend the night at a motel 6 as they see no value in a nicer hotel

There is nothing wrong with that as they don't see value in the same things as other folks.

It is wise of Orbitz to market based on what people want and are willing to buy

I'll use them next time to avoid the 1 and 2 star recommendations :)

I've been buying used Macs because I can't afford to spend $1700 on a new MBP or even $1,000 on a Air, yet I prefer Macs over Windows computers. At the same time, I prefer to stay at Motel 6 in Vegas. One time, I even stayed at Americas Best across from the MGM.

boomish
Jun 26, 2012, 03:38 AM
Note to self, don't shop at Orbitz!

ABG
Jun 26, 2012, 03:51 AM
Not really surprising but PC fanboys will figure out a way to spin this to mean Apple users are all terrible people.

Haven't you just spun it to show how PC fanboys are terrible people :confused:

Kimbie
Jun 26, 2012, 04:10 AM
Would be interesting to see how this breaks down in terms of age ranges/business sectors.

I use both mac and PC at work, but when we go away and need a hotel its booked by one of the admin staff who are on a PC.

So while they may say mac users spend more, how many of the PC users are business users, and normally business users have to keep the costs down so go with a cheaper room?

Kimbie

nick_elt
Jun 26, 2012, 04:12 AM
...and Android users?

They are directed to the hostels.

MCP-511
Jun 26, 2012, 04:22 AM
Never used Orbitz, likely remain that way.

MacBOS
Jun 26, 2012, 04:48 AM
I stopped reading by page 3; people are reading to much on this, but the fact of the mater is.


You still have aces to whatever results a pc gets so its not like there pointing a gun at you and telling you to buy the expensive hotel
The hotels the article talks about are just presented to you when you enter the site and wille browsing (depending on whatever parameters you set up)


I dont see how people can get upset about this, there not keeping the cheap hotels from you.

usptact
Jun 26, 2012, 04:52 AM
Very interesting trend. A deeper study may reveal that Mac owners are simply... more wealthy since they can afford a Mac?

di1in
Jun 26, 2012, 05:00 AM
Front page on MR ?


Great free advertising for Orbitz.

Who said it was free?

MH01
Jun 26, 2012, 05:05 AM
Very interesting trend. A deeper study may reveal that Mac owners are simply... more wealthy since they can afford a Mac?

Those studies may also reveal that Mac users are 80% more vain then PC users ;)

Though to be honest, owning a mac, does not make one rich! Take a stroll outside and see how many ferals own iphones....

macintoshi
Jun 26, 2012, 05:38 AM
I know one person who converted to an Android (a nice one, at least for Android; Samsung), she quickly got the iPhone 4S after that.

So I still know of no one that is a former iOS user. I'm a former iOS user and i **** over iOS and iPhones, altought i am a macbook pro user and i love it, but this have nothing to do, with what i feel and think of the iPhone, i love android and my samsung gs3!

alexiszorba
Jun 26, 2012, 05:53 AM
The WSJ goes on (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304458604577488822667325882.html) to note that the average household income for adult owners of Macs is $98,560, according to Forrester Research, versus $74,452 for a PC owner.


Conclusion ? Get a mac. You'll make more money and enjoy more expensive hotel rooms.

Rennir
Jun 26, 2012, 06:13 AM
Isn't this what Facebook is basically doing, except on a smaller scale? Collecting data and then selling the information to companies so that they can market things suited to each person's individual tastes? :D

eddjedi
Jun 26, 2012, 06:23 AM
What's with all the complaints about this story being on page 1? It's news related to Macs. What do you expect, a brand new Mac line released every few hours!?

fmaxwell
Jun 26, 2012, 06:42 AM
kinda stupid really.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

but whatever

It makes perfect sense to identify a demographic (Mac users) and target ads to them based on their spending habits.

----------

Stupid logic. I want to spend on fun rather than a room I just sleep in for a few nights...

How is it "stupid logic" to recognize factual information (Mac users tend to opt for pricier, nicer hotel rooms) and target your ads accordingly?

I can afford to stay in a nice hotel and spend money on "fun." It's not a one-or-the-other choice for me. And I own a Mac. So it makes sense that they'd show me ads for upscale accommodations.

fmaxwell
Jun 26, 2012, 06:55 AM
I'm never using Orbitz now.

They will be crushed, because they really value cheap-ạss customers who don't want to spend much money at their site.

A room is a room.

Maybe if you're going there for an half an hour with a hooker, but if you're going to stay a week or two and you might value things like good mattresses, better soundproofing, pools, hot tubs, good exercise facilities, nice hotel restaurants, complimentary breakfast, a suite so that you can sleep in the bedroom while your wife/GF/kids are in the other room.

I don't want to be shown the higher priced stuff just because I'm on a Mac.

Then buy a PC or don't use Orbitz. I don't want to see you whining on MacRumors, but there it is anyway.

I'd rather spend my money on fun things on my vacation not a hotel room.

I'd rather spend money on both. If you need to stay at a roach motel near a railroad track so that you can afford to rent a moped for half a day, go for it.

Skika
Jun 26, 2012, 06:58 AM
Breaking news! Company uses customer demographics to better sell their service.

More at 10.

Bubba Satori
Jun 26, 2012, 07:00 AM
More expensive, 10 sq. ft. and no sheets or toilet paper. :D

polaris20
Jun 26, 2012, 07:25 AM
I'm assuming they're just using the user agent string.

It was kind of a joke. ;)

303aegiszx
Jun 26, 2012, 07:30 AM
I don't get why Mac users would have a problem with this.. It's not like it's a lie. You own a Mac product, which obviously costs much more than a PC. You've got the extra income, most likely. Seriously, you've spent hundreds if not thousands, and $50 more for a room is going to bother you?

Point is, they're providing a service (a room), and if you don't like it, you can freely visit another site. I've had nothing but great experiences while using Orbitz the past few years, and will continue to do so.

Doc750
Jun 26, 2012, 07:35 AM
I'm booking my next hotel from a $45 knock off android tablet.

chrimux
Jun 26, 2012, 07:40 AM
And yet people whine when an app is more than 99 cents. :rolleyes:
It always depends on the quality. With hotel rooms as well as with apps.

bommai
Jun 26, 2012, 07:47 AM
The real problem is that after buying a couple of Apple devices there is no money left for anything more expensive than a Holiday Inn. :p:D

Holiday inn is typically overpriced. I use
Price Line most of the time and get pretty good deals.

foodog
Jun 26, 2012, 07:49 AM
I'm never using Orbitz now. A room is a room. I don't want to be shown the higher priced stuff just because I'm on a Mac.

I'd rather spend my money on fun things on my vacation not a hotel room.

That is not what was said. Mac users on average spend more per night than PC users.... Orbitz shows them the more expensive options as well as the others.

jonnysods
Jun 26, 2012, 07:53 AM
Weird article to see on MR today.

I can afford Macs by saving money elsewhere, such as hotel stays. Give me the cheap options!

sweetbrat
Jun 26, 2012, 07:57 AM
I really don't see what the big deal is. It's all demographics. Demographics are used every single day to market items to you more effectively. Companies choose which times and stations to show their television commercials on according to the expected demographics for each program. Ads on the web are served up to you according to your demographics; browsing history, age, income, interests, etc. The ads you see are vastly different from the ads I see. You go into a car dealership wearing nice clothes and it's assumed that you have more money, so it might be harder to get a lower price on the car you want. None of this is new.

Orbitz isn't doing anything unscrupulous. They know that people that own Macs tend to choose nicer hotel rooms, and this makes them more money. So instead of presenting you with a list ranked by lowest-to-highest price, they show you a list based on the hotel rating instead. They're not charging you more for the same product, they're just showing you the nicer products first. If you can't manage to re-sort the list to show what you want, that's your problem, not theirs. I actually give Orbitz a lot of credit for using research like this to market more effectively.

Reason077
Jun 26, 2012, 07:59 AM
Holiday inn is typically overpriced. I use
Price Line most of the time and get pretty good deals.

Yeah, but you'd get even better deals if you used a PC ;)

marksman
Jun 26, 2012, 08:09 AM
Lets pretend you and your friend go to a car dealership. You get quoted a fair price. Your friend gets quoted a higher price (pick a reason, female, old, young, whatever) and must haggle to get it down because they don't need the super expensive floor mats. When confronted on the issue the person claims that data shows that female, old, young, whatever people prefer expensive floor mats.

We all know what is going on here. They aren't doing it for you. They're doing it to pad their bottom line and they're lying to a subset of their customers. That is the problem.

This isn't like that at all. It is like when the teenager on the bicycle comes in the are likely to show them the 15k cars and when the 50 year old in the lambo shows up the might take them to the 80k luxury sedans.

KPOM
Jun 26, 2012, 08:25 AM
This makes the front page?

It made the front page of the Wall Street Journal. This is an example of targeted marketing, albeit "targeting" at a very high level.

ristlin
Jun 26, 2012, 08:27 AM
This isn't like that at all. It is like when the teenager on the bicycle comes in the are likely to show them the 15k cars and when the 50 year old in the lambo shows up the might take them to the 80k luxury sedans.

This. They are just catering the market.

marksman
Jun 26, 2012, 08:29 AM
Oh
My
God

PC users and Mac users pay the same price. The results are ordered differently based on demographics but the prices are the same. Are you people really that dense?

I just think most people complaining about this or young and/or poor.

All orbitz is doing is offering services that people will more likely want. That some people here don't understand that when people have means they may often choose upgraded travel arrangements is odd but not that surprising.

viewfly
Jun 26, 2012, 08:33 AM
Gee, didn't know that Bill Gate$ stays in Motel 6's only.

Regardless of the options to sort by prices, this is absurd. Anyone can afford an iPhone or iPad.

Orbitz will take a hit on this one and give them another year in the red. Interesting data mining, but poor execution of it.

linkismyhero
Jun 26, 2012, 08:39 AM
Some of the responses in this thread are insulting. I'm a PC and Mac user, but the amount of elitism is honestly appalling. What I'm basically reading is "PC users are cheapasses who don't need the upper crust options." I like VALUE. If I want to stay in a hotel, I have three requirements: clean, bed, and bath. No one needs the extra crap. It's a waste of money.

Mr_Ed
Jun 26, 2012, 08:39 AM
Makes sense, Macs are luxury products after all...

Since when? I tank most Mac users would argue a product that costs more can sometimes present a better overall value than cheaper alternatives. That does not make the product a "luxury" item.

adder7712
Jun 26, 2012, 08:41 AM
Some of the responses in this thread are insulting. I'm a PC and Mac user, but the amount of elitism is honestly appalling. What I'm basically reading is "PC users are cheapasses who don't need the upper crust options." I like VALUE. If I want to stay in a hotel, I have three requirements: clean, bed, and bath. No one needs the extra crap. It's a waste of money.

Elitism is also direct towards non-iOS users as well. That is to be expected in this forum, however.

JHankwitz
Jun 26, 2012, 08:44 AM
Sounds right to me. If a company sees blue people spending 20% more on their higher end offerings, show blue people higher end things more prominently.

Has nothing to do with 'blue' or 'red'. Most all marketing firm develop profiles on consumers and market accordingly. They know your color, creed, age, job type, income, and so on. But they have no way of knowing who you voted for in past elections.

The magazines you subscribe to have had targeted ads in them for many years. A family with a high paid executive may get an ad for a luxury car, while a family with many children will see an ad for a mini-van. This is old news, just moved from magazine ads to on-line ads.

Mattie Num Nums
Jun 26, 2012, 08:47 AM
Anyone can afford an iPhone or iPad.

That's an ignorant statement.

ed724
Jun 26, 2012, 08:58 AM
Fine, I''ll just run the orbitz searches on my windows VM.

sweetbrat
Jun 26, 2012, 08:58 AM
Some of the responses in this thread are insulting. I'm a PC and Mac user, but the amount of elitism is honestly appalling. What I'm basically reading is "PC users are cheapasses who don't need the upper crust options." I like VALUE. If I want to stay in a hotel, I have three requirements: clean, bed, and bath. No one needs the extra crap. It's a waste of money.

A waste of money to you, fine. Depending on the type of trip they're taking, a lot of people actually enjoy the extra "crap." Getting the cheapest thing you can that meets your minimum needs isn't the preferred approach for many people. Just because someone has different standards than you, it doesn't mean that something is a waste of money. It just means it's not what you prefer to spend your money on.

Marketing firms spend a lot of money to learn about people's preferences. If that research tells them that Mac users are MORE LIKELY to get a slightly more upscale hotel room, it doesn't mean that all PC users are cheapskates. You're reading way too much into this. We're talking about generalizations made over a broad group of people, and using it to market. It's nothing new, it's just getting more refined over time.

inlovewithi
Jun 26, 2012, 09:00 AM
Not surprising since Mac users tend to pay more for older or similar power computer. I've always got the vibe that they seem to value status more so than the average person.

kingtj
Jun 26, 2012, 09:02 AM
I can already see the snarky comments about Mac users thinking they're so superior, they need to buy premium hotel rooms for themselves, etc. etc.

All I know is, I don't fit their pattern at all! I'm a Mac user with multiple Macs, an iPhone 4s and an iPad, plus an iPod classic in my car, attached to the car stereo. Yet when I shop for hotels (usually on Priceline, actually), I look for the very cheapest thing in the area that's part of a chain (so I know what I'm getting, at least).

No reason to pay more, IMO, when I've always been able to get a clean, decent room for under $60 or so at a Days Inn, Comfort Inn, or the like.


Not really surprising but PC fanboys will figure out a way to spin this to mean Apple users are all terrible people.

FoxMcCloud
Jun 26, 2012, 09:03 AM
I find this offensive.

You could be very well off and earn a very high wage. You like the finer things in life and like premium holidays. you search on this Orbitz site for a holiday on your very expensive machine made out of gold running a variety of operating systems, yet because it ain't a Mac, you are excluded from seeing these premium holidays.

How about show everyone your entire stock listings, you know, like every other travel company, and let the consumer decide which one they want. Don't seclude listings based off of what OS they are running because that certainly is not a way of indicating what holiday someone would pay for!

I know certain Mac users who are tighter than a pensioner with their money, I know many who are very liberal with their money and I can say the same for non Mac people. Some go out of their way to get the cheapest Mac possible whether it's a decade old as long as it works and some who buy a new iMac every year simply because they can. I also know other people who spend thousands every other month buying electrical or hifi or computer goods yet dont own a Mac. Surely these people are entitled to premium holidays?

I understand they are simply filtering the results and showing the more expensive ones to Mac users, but what if the Mac user doesn't want to be bombarded with expensive hotels immediately? They might get turned off and go to a competitor site. Likewise the Windows user might want an expensive hotel but finds the website is generalising and showing them cheap hotels..essentially saying "hey, I understand your are poor and can't afford an elitist computer therefore here are some cheap ass hotels to go along with your cheap ass computer".

****ing morons.

chrisbru
Jun 26, 2012, 09:08 AM
Not surprising since Mac users tend to pay more for older or similar power computer. I've always got the vibe that they seem to value status more so than the average person.

Your argument is flawed - It's like saying I'll take the Travelodge over the Hilton because they both have a Queen bed, a desk, a television, an elevator, and a check-in desk but Travelodge is half the price.

While some Mac users do value status, most value USER EXPERIENCE - Which is exactly what high end hotels do. Sure, the tasks you are aiming to perform (sleeping, showering, changing clothes, whatever) can be completed on both platforms/hotels... But the user experience of a Hilton/Wynn/whatever is so much nicer than it's bargain-priced counterparts.

----------

ramblerambledumbassramble


Someone didn't read the article...

Orbitz FEATURES higher priced hotels when the search is performed on a Mac. You still get all the same listings no matter what machine you are on, they are just displayed in a different order. Click "sort by price" on both a Mac and a PC, and the lists are identical.

MattSepeta
Jun 26, 2012, 09:16 AM
I find this offensive.

You could be very well off and earn a very high wage. You like the finer things in life and like premium holidays. you search on this Orbitz site for a holiday on your very expensive machine made out of gold running a variety of operating systems, yet because it ain't a Mac, you are excluded from seeing these premium holidays.
(tl;dr)


not sure if serious...

sweetbrat
Jun 26, 2012, 09:23 AM
I find this offensive.

You could be very well off and earn a very high wage. You like the finer things in life and like premium holidays. you search on this Orbitz site for a holiday on your very expensive machine made out of gold running a variety of operating systems, yet because it ain't a Mac, you are excluded from seeing these premium holidays.

How about show everyone your entire stock listings, you know, like every other travel company, and let the consumer decide which one they want. Don't seclude listings based off of what OS they are running because that certainly is not a way of indicating what holiday someone would pay for!

I know certain Mac users who are tighter than a pensioner with their money, I know many who are very liberal with their money and I can say the same for non Mac people. Some go out of their way to get the cheapest Mac possible whether it's a decade old as long as it works and some who buy a new iMac every year simply because they can. I also know other people who spend thousands every other month buying electrical or hifi or computer goods yet dont own a Mac. Surely these people are entitled to premium holidays?

I understand they are simply filtering the results and showing the more expensive ones to Mac users, but what if the Mac user doesn't want to be bombarded with expensive hotels immediately? They might get turned off and go to a competitor site. Likewise the Windows user might want an expensive hotel but finds the website is generalising and showing them cheap hotels..essentially saying "hey, I understand your are poor and can't afford an elitist computer therefore here are some cheap ass hotels to go along with your cheap ass computer".

****ing morons.

Seriously? If people are too stupid or too lazy to click on the "Lowest Price" sort button at the top of the screen, whose fault is that? Everyone can get to the same information, nothing is hidden. It's just presented differently.

All websites make generalizations based on information that's been gathered about you. Sure, there's some cheapskates that are Mac users, and a lot of Windows users that are willing to splurge. But demographics are used to make generalizations...blanket statements that say, "This group prefers this, while this other group seems to prefer this." How do you think marketing works, if not on generalizations? It happens in TV, newspapers, magazines, the web. If you think generalizations like this aren't made about you every single day, you're living in your own little world, not in reality.

PracticalMac
Jun 26, 2012, 09:26 AM
Very interesting. Wondering how the community (Mac and pc) Will respond to this:rolleyes:

Mac seeks quality accommodations with perks.
PC is a cheap bastard

;) :P :P :P

Real question:

Are Macs chose for the quality, or as a status symbol like a BMW?

unlimitedx
Jun 26, 2012, 09:26 AM
I find this offensive.

You could be very well off and earn a very high wage. You like the finer things in life and like premium holidays. you search on this Orbitz site for a holiday on your very expensive machine made out of gold running a variety of operating systems, yet because it ain't a Mac, you are excluded from seeing these premium holidays.

How about show everyone your entire stock listings, you know, like every other travel company, and let the consumer decide which one they want. Don't seclude listings based off of what OS they are running because that certainly is not a way of indicating what holiday someone would pay for!

I know certain Mac users who are tighter than a pensioner with their money, I know many who are very liberal with their money and I can say the same for non Mac people. Some go out of their way to get the cheapest Mac possible whether it's a decade old as long as it works and some who buy a new iMac every year simply because they can. I also know other people who spend thousands every other month buying electrical or hifi or computer goods yet dont own a Mac. Surely these people are entitled to premium holidays?

I understand they are simply filtering the results and showing the more expensive ones to Mac users, but what if the Mac user doesn't want to be bombarded with expensive hotels immediately? They might get turned off and go to a competitor site. Likewise the Windows user might want an expensive hotel but finds the website is generalising and showing them cheap hotels..essentially saying "hey, I understand your are poor and can't afford an elitist computer therefore here are some cheap ass hotels to go along with your cheap ass computer".

****ing morons.

Orbitz just initially ranks the results differently. Sorting by price will give you the same results. They aren't excluding any results according to the post

MacInTO
Jun 26, 2012, 09:27 AM
I'm not sure what the fuss is all about. Yes, Orbitz discriminates based on computing preferences. However, they are a business and they are free to do whatever they want to market to people. If you don't like it, there are lots of other similar websites that do pretty much exactly the same thing as they do.

foodog
Jun 26, 2012, 09:32 AM
Has nothing to do with 'blue' or 'red'. Most all marketing firm develop profiles on consumers and market accordingly. They know your color, creed, age, job type, income, and so on. But they have no way of knowing who you voted for in past elections.

The magazines you subscribe to have had targeted ads in them for many years. A family with a high paid executive may get an ad for a luxury car, while a family with many children will see an ad for a mini-van. This is old news, just moved from magazine ads to on-line ads.

I don't think he meant it to be a political statement. He simply picked blue. I know its an election year and all but relax.

----------

I'm not sure what the fuss is all about. Yes, Orbitz discriminates based on computing preferences. However, they are a business and they are free to do whatever they want to market to people. If you don't like it, there are lots of other similar websites that do pretty much exactly the same thing as they do.

They are not discriminating. If you read the article you would see they are NOT charging more for the same hotel rooms. They are offering higher priced options to Mac users. For example users on a PC are offered NotSoBad hotel for 50 a night, and FleaInfested******** hotel for 35. Mac users get Ok hotel for 75, NotSoBad hotel for 50 a night, and FleaInfested******** hotel for 35.

larrybeo
Jun 26, 2012, 09:32 AM
Apple users are always taken for all they can get. Anyone who will pay $300 for a 2GB RAM upgrade deserves to pay extra for a hotel room. It's kinda like Financial Darwinism! Ha!

kiljoy616
Jun 26, 2012, 09:39 AM
Isn't this like page two stuff?

Not with the amount of comments and how much fun the PC fangirls are spinning this. :rolleyes:

----------

If I log in on a Commodore 64, do I get a discount?

Oh priceless for sure, but can you even log into anything with that thing.

I think they would give it to you for free if you can even view the page.:p

FaustsHausUK
Jun 26, 2012, 09:42 AM
If you book your room using a Linux computer, do they put a lash in your room so you can beat yourself because you clearly enjoy suffering?

Labeno
Jun 26, 2012, 09:44 AM
The best part is, if you're a Linux user, it only shows you campgrounds.

If you're an Android user, it only shows park benches with trash cans full of news paper to keep warm. It doesn't show upgrades cause they know it's a waste of time.

kiljoy616
Jun 26, 2012, 09:49 AM
Slow news day.

Well sure what did you expect news on new Apple TV 100 inch for $999.99. :rolleyes:

Still interesting article for those with 7 year old macs who don't fall into their category but still use Apple products.

----------

if you book your room using a linux computer, do they put a lash in your room so you can beat yourself because you clearly enjoy suffering?

hahaha! Pain is pleasure, pleasure is pain, frustration is our friend.

----------

I'm a former iOS user and i **** over iOS and iPhones, altought i am a macbook pro user and i love it, but this have nothing to do, with what i feel and think of the iPhone, i love android and my samsung gs3!

Look daddy pretty eye candy, so pretty eye candy and plastic. :p

RobertMartens
Jun 26, 2012, 09:49 AM
Slow news day.

Slower comment day

JAT
Jun 26, 2012, 09:51 AM
More than 1000 words...

Image (http://renewaldynamics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Sheep-Fleece.jpg)

What kind of room do you stay in, Aiden? Motel 6?

RobertMartens
Jun 26, 2012, 09:52 AM
{QUOTE]Says a Apple Fanboi...[/QUOTE]

Remind me again, why is boy spelled boi?

Rodimus Prime
Jun 26, 2012, 09:55 AM
A waste of money to you, fine. Depending on the type of trip they're taking, a lot of people actually enjoy the extra "crap." Getting the cheapest thing you can that meets your minimum needs isn't the preferred approach for many people. Just because someone has different standards than you, it doesn't mean that something is a waste of money. It just means it's not what you prefer to spend your money on.

Marketing firms spend a lot of money to learn about people's preferences. If that research tells them that Mac users are MORE LIKELY to get a slightly more upscale hotel room, it doesn't mean that all PC users are cheapskates. You're reading way too much into this. We're talking about generalizations made over a broad group of people, and using it to market. It's nothing new, it's just getting more refined over time.

I am with him on the elitism in this thread is rather appalling and in many ways speaks volumes of why the Apple community is though so low of.

Now it is not that PC users are cheaper compared to Mac users but lets do a break down of users. I am willing to bet good money that Mac users in general have a higher income. Macs are just outside of many people's price range on what they can afford.
I am willing to bet if you did a break down on income the results would not matter as much as what OS was used. It just OSX users tend to be in a higher income bracket.

Mr_Ed
Jun 26, 2012, 09:57 AM
I don't get why Mac users would have a problem with this.. It's not like it's a lie. You own a Mac product, which obviously costs much more than a PC. You've got the extra income, most likely. Seriously, you've spent hundreds if not thousands, and $50 more for a room is going to bother you?

Point is, they're providing a service (a room), and if you don't like it, you can freely visit another site. I've had nothing but great experiences while using Orbitz the past few years, and will continue to do so.

You are making a huge assumption without basis. Owning a Mac does not automatically mean you have extra income. I remember when I was much younger my approach was that I would wait and save my money to buy what I thought was a better product rather than buy a cheaper one right away. I applied this to everything from kitchen knives, to other tools, electronics, and yes, computers.

All that said, I don't see an issue with what Orbitz is doing. It's not like they are charging you more for a given room because of demographics. They are simply organizing the data for your query differently. This is nothing new or controversial as far as I'm concerned.

fmaxwell
Jun 26, 2012, 10:15 AM
Fine, I''ll just run the orbitz searches on my windows VM.

Then they will show you little rooms that are secretly inside of rooms rented to Mac owners.

Asia8
Jun 26, 2012, 10:16 AM
I don't see the big issue, they're showing everyone the same lists and same prices, the only difference is their recommendations are different, a different ordering based on statistics, which means it will probably help more than it will inconvenience by forcing them to click the order by price ascending button.

alent1234
Jun 26, 2012, 10:16 AM
If you book your room using a Linux computer, do they put a lash in your room so you can beat yourself because you clearly enjoy suffering?

with some of the ridiculous names that devs name open source software, probably.

GIMP, i know what it stands for but every time i hear the name i think of the gimp from pulp fiction

benpatient
Jun 26, 2012, 10:19 AM
Since when do computer owners make more than 70,000 a year? If I made that I'd have no problem paying more for a hotel.

Yeah I am thinking something is major wrong in that story.

Because 100K average for mac owners isn't right, either.

According to the census bureau, over 65% of Americans have broadband at home, which means some kind of computer.

The average household income was just over 50K in 2011. There is NO WAY that there are enough rich computer owners, or (non-computer-owning poor) to swing that average up past 70K.

alent1234
Jun 26, 2012, 10:23 AM
I can already see the snarky comments about Mac users thinking they're so superior, they need to buy premium hotel rooms for themselves, etc. etc.

All I know is, I don't fit their pattern at all! I'm a Mac user with multiple Macs, an iPhone 4s and an iPad, plus an iPod classic in my car, attached to the car stereo. Yet when I shop for hotels (usually on Priceline, actually), I look for the very cheapest thing in the area that's part of a chain (so I know what I'm getting, at least).

No reason to pay more, IMO, when I've always been able to get a clean, decent room for under $60 or so at a Days Inn, Comfort Inn, or the like.

yep, i've stayed at different chains and most times the cheaper ones are worth it. the useless crappy continental breakfast that more expensive chains charge you $10 a night for which costs them $1 is a rip off

sweetbrat
Jun 26, 2012, 10:23 AM
I am with him on the elitism in this thread is rather appalling and in many ways speaks volumes of why the Apple community is though so low of.

Now it is not that PC users are cheaper compared to Mac users but lets do a break down of users. I am willing to bet good money that Mac users in general have a higher income. Macs are just outside of many people's price range on what they can afford.
I am willing to bet if you did a break down on income the results would not matter as much as what OS was used. It just OSX users tend to be in a higher income bracket.

Some people always have an elitist attitude; it's not unique to this thread, nor to Mac users as a whole. It's another generalization. I know some Mac people that have that attitude; I also know some PC folks that are the same way. People being jerks isn't confined to one demographic ;)

I never claimed that PC users are cheaper. The marketing firm that did this analysis says that PC users tend to spend less on hotel rooms. If that's what their data says, it makes perfect sense for them to target the more expensive rooms towards the people they think are more likely to rent them. You're right, it's entirely possible that the difference in preferences is due to income...but it's much easier to track people online by their web browser than by their income.

locust76
Jun 26, 2012, 10:29 AM
Yeah I am thinking something is major wrong in that story.

Because 100K average for mac owners isn't right, either.

According to the census bureau, over 65% of Americans have broadband at home, which means some kind of computer.

The average household income was just over 50K in 2011. There is NO WAY that there are enough rich computer owners, or (non-computer-owning poor) to swing that average up past 70K.

The average household income of 50k is for 100% of surveyed Americans. 65% of surveyed Americans have broadband, so what's the average income for that specific 65%? It could be better-than-average, or more than 50K, say 70k?

fmaxwell
Jun 26, 2012, 10:29 AM
The average household income was just over 50K in 2011. There is NO WAY that there are enough rich computer owners, or (non-computer-owning poor) to swing that average up past 70K.

Senior level engineers regularly see six figure salaries. And remember, we're talking household income, not individual income. If there are two earners in a household, that's only $50K each.

In the part of the country where I live, a family trying to get by on $50K per year is seriously hurting.

RMferrer
Jun 26, 2012, 10:31 AM
Usually 10 year olds who use/got their devices from their parents.

And by reading most of the threads on this site, I'd say that's about 70% of this community....

quietstormSD
Jun 26, 2012, 10:47 AM
I was hoping that if I own a Mac that I would make more money and not the other way around.

I always toggle the show lowest first whenever I shop online. I think it's pretty ridiculous though that they don't necessarily show the lowest first to Mac users. I see so many college students with Macs. Trust me, they aren't rich.

doobybiggs
Jun 26, 2012, 10:53 AM
And by reading most of the threads on this site, I'd say that's about 70% of this community....

LOL! That is probably not too far off :rolleyes:

KnightWRX
Jun 26, 2012, 11:02 AM
So... "Sort by Price lowest/Highest". What am I missing here ? :confused:

What is the "news" ?

doobybiggs
Jun 26, 2012, 11:06 AM
So... "Sort by Price lowest/Highest". What am I missing here ? :confused:

What is the "news" ?

slow news day would be my guess :confused:

FoxMcCloud
Jun 26, 2012, 11:07 AM
Your argument is flawed - It's like saying I'll take the Travelodge over the Hilton because they both have a Queen bed, a desk, a television, an elevator, and a check-in desk but Travelodge is half the price.

While some Mac users do value status, most value USER EXPERIENCE - Which is exactly what high end hotels do. Sure, the tasks you are aiming to perform (sleeping, showering, changing clothes, whatever) can be completed on both platforms/hotels... But the user experience of a Hilton/Wynn/whatever is so much nicer than it's bargain-priced counterparts.

----------




Someone didn't read the article...

Orbitz FEATURES higher priced hotels when the search is performed on a Mac. You still get all the same listings no matter what machine you are on, they are just displayed in a different order. Click "sort by price" on both a Mac and a PC, and the lists are identical.

Someone didn't read my post.

I know they sort differently and bot user types can still get the same information. I'm not happy with the way it's done. Maybe things are different in America and this sort of **** is ok but I've never walked into a food restraint for example where the waiter hands a menu going "you look like you love food fat boy, so here's all our most unhealthy options first, I'll stick all the salads at the back of the book since you won't need them" or "you appear to be a bit sporty, here's some salads and protein drinks first, I'll leave the burgers and pizzas at the back".

It's generalisation and stereotyping. I bet you would all be up in arms if it was based on skill colour or sex, but it's ok if you have a Mac, clearly you have more money.

bedifferent
Jun 26, 2012, 11:07 AM
And by reading most of the threads on this site, I'd say that's about 70% of this community....

Amen. It never ceases to amaze me how uncivil discourse can become on a tech website. I often wonder, if people put as much emotion into politics or other issues the world may be a different place.

As for the article, I chuckled a bit. I never thought about a website using the browser/device info to tailor the info in such a way. Wow. lol

BigPrince
Jun 26, 2012, 11:10 AM
Yeah I am thinking something is major wrong in that story.

Because 100K average for mac owners isn't right, either.

According to the census bureau, over 65% of Americans have broadband at home, which means some kind of computer.

The average household income was just over 50K in 2011. There is NO WAY that there are enough rich computer owners, or (non-computer-owning poor) to swing that average up past 70K.


Well in households making a lot you would expect a computer, in households not making a lot they may not even have a computer....so you have a lot more skewing it up since this is based on computer owners.

Crayo
Jun 26, 2012, 11:14 AM
Apple (as in Steve himself) has publicly stated that Apple only has interest in being a premium brand that makes premium products even with the expense of market share. So, not surprisingly Apple products also tend to have a premium price. Luckily for us Apple products also have premium value and quality (and please, lets argue this in a separate thread if necessary ;) )

It is not totally wrong to assume that premium products are purchased more often by people who can *actually afford* them. Apple owners who cant afford their own hardware are a minority and therefore not a relevant group to optimize for.

And based on that Orbitz - or any other business - would be ignorant to not use Mac vs. PC demographics when sorting search results. Everyone else in advertising and online retailing already does it extensively.

Bright side here is that sometimes this also benefits the customer since they are being targeted with (statistically) more relevant content. In case of Mac users, this seems to be premium hotels with different quality vs. price ratio. We Mac users cant argue against the fact that we have a proven track record of choosing at least one premium product. ;)

As long as Orbitz or some other retailer is not pricing the product differently for different users, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this practice. :)

sweetbrat
Jun 26, 2012, 11:26 AM
Someone didn't read my post.

I know they sort differently and bot user types can still get the same information. I'm not happy with the way it's done. Maybe things are different in America and this sort of **** is ok but I've never walked into a food restraint for example where the waiter hands a menu going "you look like you love food fat boy, so here's all our most unhealthy options first, I'll stick all the salads at the back of the book since you won't need them" or "you appear to be a bit sporty, here's some salads and protein drinks first, I'll leave the burgers and pizzas at the back".

It's generalisation and stereotyping. I bet you would all be up in arms if it was based on skill colour or sex, but it's ok if you have a Mac, clearly you have more money.

It doesn't have anything to do with being in America. When you're on the internet, information is collected about you. The sites you like to visit, subjects you like, the age range they believe you're in, your gender, the area you live in, and your assumed income range. This information is then used to present you with options that they think will appeal to you, thus earning more money for the advertiser. Although in some circumstances similar things are done when you make a purchase in person (your clothing and appearance has a huge impact on what salespeople show you in many stores), it's not to the same degree that it is on the internet. It's not as easy to change things on the fly in a brick and mortar store. Plus, the people at a store aren't following you around. Your internet history and demographic profile are following you around online.

It is generalization; but that's what a huge portion of marketing is. It's tailoring your sales pitch towards your audience. They're still offering the same options, so it's not discriminating. And while not much of this stuff is based on race, you can bet a ton of it is based on gender. You might find it offensive, but it's they way things have been done for a very long time. Now it's just on a bigger, more global scale.

l3it3r
Jun 26, 2012, 11:34 AM
I'm guilty of this.. I only ever book on my macbook or my ipad, and I book expensive hotels.. sorry y'all

SprodeBoy
Jun 26, 2012, 11:38 AM
Mac seeks quality accommodations with perks.
PC is a cheap bastard

;) :P :P :P

Real question:

Are Macs chose for the quality, or as a status symbol like a BMW?

Thanks for the quote. And in my mind it is 70 percent status and 30 percent performance. Im running a hackintosh and planning on getting a macbook pro soon. I love Mac but there is some serious competition out there for power. However, when it comes to looks (Used mostly in status) Mac dominates. This is prolly why a lot of people use mac simply for status, because Apple is the leader of luxurious and beautiful computers.

brdeveloper
Jun 26, 2012, 11:42 AM
The WSJ goes on (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304458604577488822667325882.html) to note that the average household income for adult owners of Macs is $98,560, according to Forrester Research, versus $74,452 for a PC owner.

Wow. My household income can't even reach the PC owner one.

viewfly
Jun 26, 2012, 11:42 AM
Gee, didn't know that Bill Gate$ stays in Motel 6's only.

Regardless of the options to sort by prices, this is absurd. Anyone can afford an iPhone or iPad.

Orbitz will take a hit on this one and give them another year in the red. Interesting data mining, but poor execution of it.

That's an ignorant statement.

Since you so ignorantly don't understand it...let me explain it to you:

If someone can afford an cheap PC ($500) they can afford an iPad at the same price point to make travel plans through Orbitz.

gnasher729
Jun 26, 2012, 11:45 AM
Some of the responses in this thread are insulting. I'm a PC and Mac user, but the amount of elitism is honestly appalling. What I'm basically reading is "PC users are cheapasses who don't need the upper crust options." I like VALUE. If I want to stay in a hotel, I have three requirements: clean, bed, and bath. No one needs the extra crap. It's a waste of money.

In other words, you fully agree with what Orbitz is doing?

NewAnger
Jun 26, 2012, 11:45 AM
Wow. My household income can't even reach the PC owner one.

Same, which is why I can only afford used Macs. :(

coolspot18
Jun 26, 2012, 11:49 AM
Stupid, I prefer Otel.com - cheaper rates.


Seems like a lot of Mac users like to spend money needlessly. No wonder why our peripherals cost so much.

KnightWRX
Jun 26, 2012, 11:52 AM
In other words, you fully agree with what Orbitz is doing?

There isn't much wrong in what Orbitz is doing. Data mining and profiling to offer more targeted options is what advertising is all about.

Dr McKay
Jun 26, 2012, 12:05 PM
I guess my $1800 PC means im just a cheapskate who cheaps out on everything.

Crayo
Jun 26, 2012, 12:06 PM
Why some of you are talking like Orbitz has placed higher pricing for Mac users? Please stop. That is not true.

Read the original article and educate yourself bit on subject of demographics in advertising before making such claims :)

What Orbitz is doing has been normal in advertising/retail since.. the 60's .. and closest example I can give is the header banner advert at MacRumors forums you are browsing right now. (hint: its being targeted to you partly based on your hardware/OS/browser etc. and maybe based on statistical predictions of your household income). You are not seeing the same advertisement as I am, and that is *not* random.

Nothing wrong is being done. Your parents were targeted demographically and you are being targeted demographically. Get over it. :)

aristotle
Jun 26, 2012, 12:06 PM
Wow. My household income can't even reach the PC owner one.
Keep in mind that those are "averages" so some make more and some make less and some households have more than one wage earner.

Gasu E.
Jun 26, 2012, 12:20 PM
Lets pretend you and your friend go to a car dealership. You get quoted a fair price. Your friend gets quoted a higher price (pick a reason, female, old, young, whatever) and must haggle to get it down because they don't need the super expensive floor mats. When confronted on the issue the person claims that data shows that female, old, young, whatever people prefer expensive floor mats.


Many people actually DO prefer fancier hotel rooms when they travel. There are often hundreds of rooms available at my destination-- do you think I should automatically be shown the Motel 6 first?

KnightWRX
Jun 26, 2012, 12:25 PM
I guess my $1800 PC means im just a cheapskate who cheaps out on everything.

No, it means you don't quite understand how statistics work. ;) If the sample size was you and only you, 2 things :

- Maybe PCs would get the higher rate options displayed on top
- The statistics would be bunk because the sample size would be ludicrously too small.

----------

Why some of you are talking like Orbitz has placed higher pricing for Mac users?

Because they didn't read the article. Only the headline.

Read the original article and educate yourself

Why ? Then they won't have anything to post about it and won't be able to up their post count to get cool avatars!

Gasu E.
Jun 26, 2012, 12:26 PM
IYou could be very well off and earn a very high wage. You like the finer things in life and like premium holidays. you search on this Orbitz site for a holiday on your very expensive machine made out of gold running a variety of operating systems, yet because it ain't a Mac, you are excluded from seeing these premium holidays..

I have to assume you have no real experience booking hotels online or anything similar. No one is being prevented from seeing anything. This is just about showing you the recommended choices for you personally first, since no one (sane) wants to be slapped in the face with 10,000 unfiltered options. You can easily change the filter settings to see different offerings.

Navdakilla
Jun 26, 2012, 12:27 PM
"the average household income for adult owners of Macs is $98,560"

Life of a student, I wish I was making that much

JAT
Jun 26, 2012, 12:30 PM
I find this offensive.

You could be very well off and earn a very high wage. You like the finer things in life and like premium holidays. you search on this Orbitz site for a holiday on your very expensive machine made out of gold running a variety of operating systems, yet because it ain't a Mac, you are excluded from seeing these premium holidays.

How about show everyone your entire stock listings, you know, like every other travel company, and let the consumer decide which one they want. Don't seclude listings based off of what OS they are running because that certainly is not a way of indicating what holiday someone would pay for!

I know certain Mac users who are tighter than a pensioner with their money, I know many who are very liberal with their money and I can say the same for non Mac people. Some go out of their way to get the cheapest Mac possible whether it's a decade old as long as it works and some who buy a new iMac every year simply because they can. I also know other people who spend thousands every other month buying electrical or hifi or computer goods yet dont own a Mac. Surely these people are entitled to premium holidays?

I understand they are simply filtering the results and showing the more expensive ones to Mac users, but what if the Mac user doesn't want to be bombarded with expensive hotels immediately? They might get turned off and go to a competitor site. Likewise the Windows user might want an expensive hotel but finds the website is generalising and showing them cheap hotels..essentially saying "hey, I understand your are poor and can't afford an elitist computer therefore here are some cheap ass hotels to go along with your cheap ass computer".

****ing morons.
I'm trying to figure out your problem. You don't like advertising? But you understand why they do it? You just don't want them to try targetting you?

I guess...Orbitz won't get your business. I'm pretty sure everyone here is ok with that.

Crayo
Jun 26, 2012, 12:34 PM
No, it means you don't quite understand how statistics work. ;) If the sample size was you and only you, 2 things :

- Maybe PCs would get the higher rate options displayed on top
- The statistics would be bunk because the sample size would be ludicrously too small.[COLOR="#808080"]


Exactly.

It never stops amazing me how some people try to debunk consumer statistics based on their personal preferences or preferences of ten people they know ;)

kicko
Jun 26, 2012, 12:39 PM
kind of crazy i think... I save money and buy other things cheap as possible so i can afford a MAC in the first place.

Dr McKay
Jun 26, 2012, 01:15 PM
No, it means you don't quite understand how statistics work. ;)
Sorry it was meant as more of a dig at the people here posting who seem to genuinely believe that the only reason that PC users don't have a Mac is because they can't afford it. Or insinuate that all PC users are cheap.

I know its an overall stat and im in the minority.

macintoshi
Jun 26, 2012, 01:43 PM
Well sure what did you expect news on new Apple TV 100 inch for $999.99. :rolleyes:

Still interesting article for those with 7 year old macs who don't fall into their category but still use Apple products.

----------



hahaha! Pain is pleasure, pleasure is pain, frustration is our friend.

----------


Look daddy pretty eye candy, so pretty eye candy and plastic. :p
Well to me it looks clear perfect best stylish and it is the best smartphone
I ever had and it does all things i need it to do! Unlike a childish go buy phone daddy glas splitting less functions ******

Konrad9
Jun 26, 2012, 02:10 PM
Not really surprising but PC fanboys will figure out a way to spin this to mean Apple users are all terrible people.

...what?

Also, Macs are also PCs. They are Personal Computers. They are, by definition, PCs.

eneisch
Jun 26, 2012, 03:17 PM
While in this case Orbitz is only showing Safari users higher priced alternatives, I have had a case recently where it appears that a major casino chain (Bally's) was actually pricing the same room differently depending on what browser I was using. While I cannot prove that this is the case, here is my story:

I was booking a room in April 2012 to stay at the Showboat Casino in Atlantic City. Some of my friends were also staying there and booked thier room before me. They sent me their confirmation page so I could go online the same day and try to book the room at the same rate. Using my iPad, I could not get the same rate. The rate they were quoting me, for the exact same room type and travel dates, was $100 more over the 3 day stay. Then I went on my Mac and still was quoted the higher rate. I called Bally's reservation line directly and they told me some BS about how my friend must have got a promotional rate and there must be no rooms left at this "great deal". They were not very convincing or accomodating and I wound up hanging up on them with a bad taste in my mouth.

I then decided to call my friend and told her I couldn't seem to get the same rate she got and asked her to walk me through how she booked the room. I followed her steps exactly and continued to see the higher rate using my Mac. She then went on her Windows PC, using Internet Explorer, and saw the lower rate she booked at when she started a new reservation. Then I booted up my hardly never used desktop PC and tried using Internet Explorer to book the room and lo and behold - I was quoted the exact same rate she booked at! I was able to successfully book the room at the lower rate and received my confirmation e-mail. As another independent test my friend went on her iPhone and used Safari to try and book the same room. Using her iPhone she was quoted the same higher rate I was quoted on my iPad and Mac! The only reason I can think for the disparity is that Bally's website was detecting which browser I was using and revising price accordingly.

rgravell
Jun 26, 2012, 03:32 PM
meh...no big deal. orbitz and the like are just a scam anyway. they take the daily rate, add their fee on top of it and sell it as a "deal." just call the hotel you want to stay at. its always cheaper and if you ask nice, sometimes theyll throw a discount on or give the aaa rate. but i dont have these problems, luckily my wife is a gm for a hotel chain and we stay anywhere in the chain for $35/night.

NewAnger
Jun 26, 2012, 04:04 PM
...what?

Also, Macs are also PCs. They are Personal Computers. They are, by definition, PCs.

Tell that to a Mac user.

chrono1081
Jun 26, 2012, 04:55 PM
They will be crushed, because they really value cheap-ạss customers who don't want to spend much money at their site.



Maybe if you're going there for an half an hour with a hooker, but if you're going to stay a week or two and you might value things like good mattresses, better soundproofing, pools, hot tubs, good exercise facilities, nice hotel restaurants, complimentary breakfast, a suite so that you can sleep in the bedroom while your wife/GF/kids are in the other room.



Then buy a PC or don't use Orbitz. I don't want to see you whining on MacRumors, but there it is anyway.



I'd rather spend money on both. If you need to stay at a roach motel near a railroad track so that you can afford to rent a moped for half a day, go for it.

Why are you so defensive over this? Seriously you sound like a freaking child.

I don't like to be up-sold. I won't use Orbitz now. Why do you have such a problem with it?

KnightWRX
Jun 26, 2012, 05:14 PM
Why are you so defensive over this? Seriously you sound like a freaking child.

I don't like to be up-sold. I won't use Orbitz now. Why do you have such a problem with it?

Are you really not understanding what Orbitz is doing here ? They're not upselling you at all. They've only noticed statistically, users of Mac computers go for 20-30$ more expensive offerings than PC users. These are statistics built over probably a very large sample size of their customer base.

Thus, the default sorting order was made different as a convenience feature. You can still sort it manually yourself.

There is no great conspiracy here. Orbitz simply made it so Mac users don't have to scroll down or go to page 2 to get the option they statistically choose more than PC users.

chrono1081
Jun 26, 2012, 05:18 PM
Are you really not understanding what Orbitz is doing here ? They're not upselling you at all. They've only noticed statistically, users of Mac computers go for 20-30$ more expensive offerings than PC users. These are statistics built over probably a very large sample size of their customer base.

Thus, the default sorting order was made different as a convenience feature. You can still sort it manually yourself.

There is no great conspiracy here. Orbitz simply made it so Mac users don't have to scroll down or go to page 2 to get the option they statistically choose more than PC users.

I understand 100% perfectly what they are doing here, I just don't like it but for some reason no one gets that. I'd rather be shown the same offerings in the same order regardless of the system I am on.

KnightWRX
Jun 26, 2012, 05:25 PM
I understand 100% perfectly what they are doing here, I just don't like it but for some reason no one gets that. I'd rather be shown the same offerings in the same order regardless of the system I am on.

Then god forbid you click to sort by your favorite metric, the same one on either platform, and get exactly what you want. :rolleyes:

Again : it's a convenience feature implemented because statistically, you're the minority. Why shouldn't they cater to the majority of their user base and offer them convenience ? Especially since what you want is still right there.

I don't think you understand 100% at all. I think you understand from the point of view that you're the center of the world or something.

chrono1081
Jun 26, 2012, 05:39 PM
I don't think you understand 100% at all. I think you understand from the point of view that you're the center of the world or something.

Yes thats exactly what I think :rolleyes:

BiggAW
Jun 26, 2012, 05:43 PM
Isn't this like page two stuff?

No. Even my dad, who can barely turn his PC on and open Firefox, was talking about this story. It's a big deal.

KnightWRX
Jun 26, 2012, 05:53 PM
Yes thats exactly what I think :rolleyes:

Well, do you agree or not that this is a convenience move based on statistical data and thus they implemented the most convenient sorting algorithm based on a majority of their user base ?

If you don't, I don't understand what you feel is wrong with what they've done. Is there some other form of sampling they could have used to get better results that you're aware of and you'd like to share with the class ?

chrono1081
Jun 26, 2012, 06:06 PM
Well, do you agree or not that this is a convenience move based on statistical data and thus they implemented the most convenient sorting algorithm based on a majority of their user base ?

If you don't, I don't understand what you feel is wrong with what they've done. Is there some other form of sampling they could have used to get better results that you're aware of and you'd like to share with the class ?

Its up-selling, plain and simple.

And with that I'm done with this thread. I don't get why everyone is harping on my opinion when its simply that, MY OPINION.

KnightWRX
Jun 26, 2012, 06:11 PM
Its up-selling, plain and simple.

And with that I'm done with this thread. I don't get why everyone is harping on my opinion when its simply that, MY OPINION.

It's not up-selling. It's sorting based on convenience. Statistically, Mac users were already purchasing these higher priced options. Orbitz simply saved these users a few extra clicks by presenting what was statistically already being purchased in the first rows. This is like Google presenting results on the first page you actually want to click based on statistical data that those links from page 2 were what people wanted most.

Not. a. hard. concept.

Everyone is harping on your opinion because it doesn't to grasp what is going on. Be done with it and continue living without understanding what you just opposed to right here. Your opinion was formed based on lack of understanding of the situation.