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View Full Version : Apple iPhone No Longer Verizon's Bestselling Smartphone? [Update]




MacRumors
Jun 26, 2012, 11:32 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/26/apple-iphone-no-longer-verizons-bestselling-smartphone/)


http://cdn.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/05/141852-Verizon-logo_300.jpg


Fortune (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/26/apples-iphone-is-no-longer-verizons-bestseller/) reports that Apple's iPhone has dropped from the top selling smartphone position in Verizon retail stores for the first time since the carrier started selling the device. The news comes by way of a research note from William Blair's Anil Doradla. Doradla attributes the iPhone's fall from grace less to the usual slowdown in advance of a new model than to Verizon's aggressive marketing of competing 4G devices, particularly Motorola's Droid RAZR MAXX, which the carrier is selling for $299 with a 2-year contract.The results are based on "channel checks" from the April-May-June quarter of 2012. The iPhone was reportedly dethroned by the Motorola Droid RAZR MAXX, but remains in the number two spot ahead of the Samsung Galaxy Nexus.

Verizon first started carrying the iPhone in February 2011. Verizon benefited from pent up demand at launch and the subsequent launch of the iPhone 4S in October of that same year. The iPhone 4S is now 8 months since it's release with rumors that the next generation iPhone will launch this fall.

Update: A separate analyst (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/26/apples_iphone_4s_remains_top_selling_smartphone_at_verizon.html) claims that the iPhone 4S remains the top selling smarpthone at Verizon.But that's not the case, according to Walkley, who said while the latest Razr is "gaining ground," it "hasn't caught iPhone." His own research has found the iPhone 4S as the top selling smartphone at Verizon, as well as AT&T and Sprint, for the entirety of 2012 thus far.

Article Link: Apple iPhone No Longer Verizon's Bestselling Smartphone? [Update] (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/26/apple-iphone-no-longer-verizons-bestselling-smartphone/)



likemyorbs
Jun 26, 2012, 11:34 AM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination. I mean come on, im using an iPhone 4 that i purchased in June 2010 the day it came out. I have it jailbroken and running siri, there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone. It's pathetic, and no i don't consider a bump in processor speed to be a major update. In addition to that, the screen IS too damn small whether you want to admit it or not. If the new iphone isn't significantly improved and changed, im going android. And this is coming from an apple fanboy.

dwd3885
Jun 26, 2012, 11:34 AM
this is interesting because the Razr Maxx is only a month or two newer than the iPhone. It's not like some brand new phone overtook the iPhone.

SprodeBoy
Jun 26, 2012, 11:35 AM
I see this as good news. Sure I prefer Apple over everything else in the terms of smartphones but competition is always good and will keep Apple on its feet trying to make the next great thing.

jasonxneo
Jun 26, 2012, 11:35 AM
android making a come back? :D

Menopause
Jun 26, 2012, 11:35 AM
We'll see what happens in October!

thejd
Jun 26, 2012, 11:36 AM
Unless the numbers are from Verizon itself I don't put much stock in this...

xVeinx
Jun 26, 2012, 11:36 AM
It's not very surprising. Verizon stands to make a great deal more on aftermarket gimmicks on these phones than the iPhone, hence they market these more heavily.

Roessnakhan
Jun 26, 2012, 11:36 AM
With the Droid RAZR MAXX both having LTE and amazing battery life, that's no surprise.

chrmjenkins
Jun 26, 2012, 11:36 AM
The Nexus is a superior device to the Razr so the long battery life must be resonating with people (along with 4G). Too bad the Razr screen is garbage compared to the iphone and Nexus. Those poor eyes.

Val-kyrie
Jun 26, 2012, 11:37 AM
Our local Verizon store didn't even mention the iPhone when I went into the store to sign up for a plan; in fact, I had to ask them about the iPhone because they were only pushing Droids.

[Edit: There wasn't even an iPhone on display in the store.]

rei101
Jun 26, 2012, 11:40 AM
The Droid has more features and almost half the price. There is not much to question there.

stuffradio
Jun 26, 2012, 11:41 AM
It's most likely because people are waiting for the new iPhone, but it's funny regardless. (Not from Apple's point of view though)

applesith
Jun 26, 2012, 11:42 AM
Doesn't Verizon offer double data and BOGO on the Max from time to time?

rorschach
Jun 26, 2012, 11:42 AM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination.

Yeah, the iPhone 4S is such an abomination that it has broken records in sales:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394764,00.asp

:rolleyes:

Macboy Pro
Jun 26, 2012, 11:42 AM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination.

You get a thumbs up. You are correct. When you compare the iPhone with the current model droids, the iPhone has fallen behind. Apple is a little over confident in my opinion.

scottwaugh
Jun 26, 2012, 11:43 AM
This isn't suprising. Had a relative go to a Verizon store to get an iPhone (not guided by me) and they actively turned her around into an android phone (which she eventually disliked for being glitchy, not sure if that was installed junk on it or what).

So yeah, the current phone has been out a long time and Verizon is actively having their store salesfolks steer customers into android instead...its amazing the iPhone is still number 2 considering the headwinds its facing from Verizon corporate and sales staff.

TheStoof
Jun 26, 2012, 11:45 AM
Yeah, the iPhone 4S is such an abomination that it has broken records in sales:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394764,00.asp

:rolleyes:

People will buy anything if it looks cool. Apple has convinced the majority of consumers that this is what they need. They *NEED* an iPhone, not a Droid, so even if the iPhone lacks the latest technology, Apple hasn't told its consumers that they need the newest tech :).

scotty321
Jun 26, 2012, 11:45 AM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

wickerman1893
Jun 26, 2012, 11:45 AM
Watch out for Windows Phone Apollo ;)

PinkyMacGodess
Jun 26, 2012, 11:46 AM
They 'fought so hard' to get the iPhone, only to dump it? That doesn't seem to run counter to their idiotic management's history though...

MACdaddy859
Jun 26, 2012, 11:47 AM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination. I mean come on, im using an iPhone 4 that i purchased in June 2010 the day it came out. I have it jailbroken and running siri, there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone. It's pathetic, and no i don't consider a bump in processor speed to be a major update. In addition to that, the screen IS too damn small whether you want to admit it or not. If the new iphone isn't significantly improved and changed, im going android. And this is coming from an apple fanboy.

I agree with you man. Thumbs up

jalva1711
Jun 26, 2012, 11:47 AM
This was seen coming from a mile away. Management at Verizon wants you to push Droid and they don't want us mentioning the iPhone unless the customer asks for it. Plus theres incentives for selling the Droid and working in a commission job we are obviously going to where the money is at.

spiderman0616
Jun 26, 2012, 11:47 AM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination. I mean come on, im using an iPhone 4 that i purchased in June 2010 the day it came out. I have it jailbroken and running siri, there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone. It's pathetic, and no i don't consider a bump in processor speed to be a major update. In addition to that, the screen IS too damn small whether you want to admit it or not. If the new iphone isn't significantly improved and changed, im going android. And this is coming from an apple fanboy.

While I think it's ridiculous that you expect a major upgrade on every model they release, there is a little truth in what you say. However, I think everyone knew Apple wouldn't jump on 4G right away. Look at all the battery issues the first 4G Android phones had.

However, fast forward to today, and we are sorely in need of a 4G iPhone. And I think it's safe to assume that if the iPad 3 has it, the iPhone 5 will probably have it too. I don't think Apple is over confident or blind to the fact that the iPhone needs 4G. I think they just like to make sure the product is a good product, not just throw a bunch of crap against the wall and see what sticks like some other companies do. I don't think the next iPhone is going to make you want to switch to Android.

chrmjenkins
Jun 26, 2012, 11:47 AM
Doesn't Verizon offer double data and BOGO on the Max from time to time?

Double data (for 4G devices) yes. But I haven't seen a BOGO on the Maxx. Maybe the normal Razr.

BC2009
Jun 26, 2012, 11:48 AM
"Channel Checks" == shipments, not sales

When Verizon reports their numbers it will be interesting to see, but anything prior to that is an attempt to cheapen Apple stock so these analysts can buy it up before this quarter's earnings are announced.

odditie
Jun 26, 2012, 11:48 AM
I have a co-worker that bought a new phone in January...when she was asked what she got she said a Verizon version of the iPhone...which of course meant it was a droid phone.

With that little knowledge about it and clearly evoking iPhone how could she not at least be aware of them selling an iPhone after working with a sales person?

scottwaugh
Jun 26, 2012, 11:49 AM
Our local Verizon store didn't even mention the iPhone when I went into the store to sign up for a plan; in fact, I had to ask them about the iPhone because they were only pushing Droids.

[Edit: There wasn't even an iPhone on display in the store.]

Wow, didn't even have iPhones on display, that's amazing hubris on Verizon's part.

Verizon definitely isn't a partner of Apple's. Verizon is lucky Steve isn't still around, he really reacted badly when folks tried to screw his business.

Like I said previously, had a relative go to Verizon recently to specifically get an iPhone and the sales staff actively steered her around to an android - to get an iPhone at Verizon you have to insist on it (and possibly not have one to play with). Amazing its still phone number 2 for them.

jmnikricket
Jun 26, 2012, 11:49 AM
iPhone sales are highly cyclical depending on where they are in their release cycle. Consumers are more educated than ever. Move along folks, nothing to see here...

TheStoof
Jun 26, 2012, 11:49 AM
They 'fought so hard' to get the iPhone, only to dump it? That doesn't seem to run counter to their idiotic management's history though...

It was to pull people from AT&T into a 2-yr contract. Those upgrading will be encouraged to try an Android.

supmango
Jun 26, 2012, 11:50 AM
The refresh cycle on the iPhone has lagged behind, but it still remains one of the best executed designs on the market. If iOS and the new iPhone don't make significant improvements over currently available devices running Android (regardless of how subpar Android is), it could spell disaster for Apple. The iPhone has to be made to set standards for well over a year ahead of its competitors.

gpat
Jun 26, 2012, 11:50 AM
The Nexus is a superior device to the Razr so the long battery life must be resonating with people (along with 4G). Too bad the Razr screen is garbage compared to the iphone and Nexus. Those poor eyes.

The screen on the RAZR may not be industry-leading, but it doesn't mean that it isn't still good for most tasks.

MACdaddy859
Jun 26, 2012, 11:51 AM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

Sure, blame Verizon. I'm a grown A$$ man. At the end of the day I know which phone I'm leaving the store with. Stop making excuses. iPhone's are nice but everyone one in the world doesn't want an iPhone. I've had all of them and quite frankly I'm ready for a change. I still like my Apple products and have love for Apple but other great products DO exist. Apple didn't create man so some people need to stop acting like it

jman240
Jun 26, 2012, 11:51 AM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.


8 times? Did you file a customer complaint? That seems a bit at odds with any sort of customer satisfaction type thing they might have in place.

bearda
Jun 26, 2012, 11:51 AM
The Droid has more features and almost half the price. There is not much to question there.

Half the price? Isn't a Verizon iPhone $199 with a 2 year contract? If the price was lower I wouldn't be surprised, but if the MAX is $299 with the same contract I'm a little surprised.

Amazing Iceman
Jun 26, 2012, 11:52 AM
Our local Verizon store didn't even mention the iPhone when I went into the store to sign up for a plan; in fact, I had to ask them about the iPhone because they were only pushing Droids.

[Edit: There wasn't even an iPhone on display in the store.]

They are probably getting spiffs for selling Androids, hence they don't care about iPhone.
Also, think of this: their sales people were brainwashed at the begining, to believe the iPhone sucks and that Android is the best, turning them into Droidboys. They pushed the Android phones as much as they could since the days of the new iPhone. Now they can't say the opposite as they would be going against their own religion.

Either way, Verizon sucks in South Florida, so I could care less of what they do.

boshii
Jun 26, 2012, 11:52 AM
Apple should update their phones every 6-8 months. The 4S would have been better received with this life cycle.

Caliber26
Jun 26, 2012, 11:52 AM
You get a thumbs up. You are correct. When you compare the iPhone with the current model droids, the iPhone has fallen behind. Apple is a little over confident in my opinion.

I agree with ya. Apple better shake the ground this fall. Incremental upgrades aren't going to cut it when you consider all the different offerings from other manufacturers.

MACdaddy859
Jun 26, 2012, 11:52 AM
The refresh cycle on the iPhone has lagged behind, but it still remains one of the best executed designs on the market. If iOS and the new iPhone don't make significant improvements over currently available devices running Android (regardless of how subpar Android is), it could spell disaster for Apple. The iPhone has to be made to set standards for well over a year ahead of its competitors.

I can tell you now that the BETA version of ios 6 is basically ios 5, hopefully something different will happen by the time ios 8 is released.

supmango
Jun 26, 2012, 11:53 AM
It was to pull people from AT&T into a 2-yr contract. Those upgrading will be encouraged to try an Android.

As ignorant as this sounds on the surface, it makes good business sense. Its not about the device quality. Its about making money. Verizon pays less for an Android device, and therefore pays less in subsidy to the device manufacturer. More people on Android means more profit for the carrier.

JBaker122586
Jun 26, 2012, 11:53 AM
The Droid has more features and almost half the price. There is not much to question there.

Uhh... what?
Did you read the article above that said the Droid Razr Maxx is $299 with two-year contract?
The iPhone is $199.

Anyway, this report ONLY takes into account Verizon STORES. Which is about the only place you can get the Razr Maxx. You can get the iPhone at the Apple Store, which a large number of people do. Once you add in those figures, I'd wager the iPhone is still Verizon's best-selling phone.

MACdaddy859
Jun 26, 2012, 11:53 AM
i agree with ya. Apple better shake the ground this fall. Incremental upgrades aren't going to cut it when you consider all the different offerings from manufacturers.

+1

unlinked
Jun 26, 2012, 11:53 AM
8 times? Did you file a customer complaint? That seems a bit at odds with any sort of customer satisfaction type thing they might have in place.

I'm not sure I trust someone who claims it is impossible to buy the 2nd best selling phone. A lot of people seem to have managed.

jonnyz
Jun 26, 2012, 11:53 AM
Apple has been waiting for the Qualcomm MDM9615 to be produced in mass before they go to 4G LTE in the iPhone. This way, they can have the new chip's benefits of increased battery life and smaller die size. I commend this, because I know people that absolutely hate their 4G LTE phone's battery life and wish their phone was less bulky too (with the exception of the new RAZR MAXX on the bulk point).

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4925/why-no-lte-iphone-5-blame-28nm-maturity

"While the MDM9600 is built on a 45nm process, its successor due in 2012 is built on a 28nm process. Qualcomm's current roadmaps show the 28nm MDM9615 arriving in Q2 2012. The 9615 finds itself in a smaller 10x10mm package and is voice enabled as well. Apple (and all other smartphone makers) could replace the MDM6600 with the MDM9615 and have a "single chip" LTE solution for smartphones. I put single chip in quotes because there are obviously other components necessary such as a PMIC and in the case of the MDM9615, an external transceiver. But next year (Q2 to be exact) should be when we can finally get LTE into something iPhone-sized.

These modems are pretty power hungry DSPs, the move to 28nm should not only help reduce die size and allow for more integration but it should also decrease power consumption. Phones based on the MDM9615 will likely increase LTE battery life to reasonable levels rather than what we've seen from the first generation of devices. "

bbplayer5
Jun 26, 2012, 11:54 AM
I have the galaxy nexus and would never use another phone other than the iPhone.. Im not really sure why the MAXX is getting such rave sales.

iPhone 5 needs a UI revamp... its been nearly the exact same since its debut. Thats the thing that KILLS me. You cant make your phone look different than anyone else without hacking it.

mattopotamus
Jun 26, 2012, 11:54 AM
i will never understand people who complained about the 4s. If it had a new shape or bigger screen people would be jumping for joy. It got an updated dual core chip, better camera, siri. Basically everything a new phone should be. It still is faster than all of my friends phones

rorschach
Jun 26, 2012, 11:55 AM
People will buy anything if it looks cool. Apple has convinced the majority of consumers that this is what they need. They *NEED* an iPhone, not a Droid, so even if the iPhone lacks the latest technology, Apple hasn't told its consumers that they need the newest tech :).

People look at the phones and decide what they want. You're right: not everyone cares about being on the bleeding edge.

I'd say 95%+ of people don't even know what RAM is, let alone how much of it their cell phone has. Same goes for CPU and megapixels and PPI and AMOLED, etc. I've worked in retail, and sold these things. The average person just doesn't know or care about that stuff. They play around with the phone and then buy whichever they "feel" most comfortable with.

The average person cares about benefits not features. They don't think "How many gigabytes of flash storage does this have?" they think "How many songs and pics can I put on it?" They don't think "What's the pixel density on this screen, and is it AMOLED?" they think "What does Transformers 2 look like on this thing?" If it works well and looks good to them they'll buy it regardless of what the "specs" say.

ericrwalker
Jun 26, 2012, 11:59 AM
I'd still take an iPhone 3GS over 95% of the rest of the phones out there. Mostly for one reason, I love iOS.

MACdaddy859
Jun 26, 2012, 11:59 AM
I have the galaxy nexus and would never use another phone other than the iPhone.. Im not really sure why the MAXX is getting such rave sales.

iPhone 5 needs a UI revamp... its been nearly the exact same since its debut. Thats the thing that KILLS me. You cant make your phone look different than anyone else without hacking it.


It needs a UI revamp BADLYYYYYYYY. and also quicker acess to Bluetooth and etc.

applesith
Jun 26, 2012, 11:59 AM
Double data (for 4G devices) yes. But I haven't seen a BOGO on the Maxx. Maybe the normal Razr.

My sister and brother-in-law got BOGO on the Maxx. That's the only reason they bought them instead of iPhones. It was a few months ago.

mac.cali
Jun 26, 2012, 11:59 AM
Not a shock here as Verizon is pushing their LTE devices. Since the current iPhones aren't LTE, I'm surprised it lasted this long.

aristobrat
Jun 26, 2012, 12:00 PM
there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone.
It's almost like Apple is starting to follow Intel's Tick-Tock cycle. Major change one year (iPhone 3G, iPhone 4), incremental improvements the following year (iPhone 3Gs, iPhone 4s). Repeat.

Wonder if that has anything to do with 99.9% of people being stuck in 2-year contracts?

Doesn't make sense for people like you that have to upgrade every year, but for folks coming out of a 2-year contract, the iPhone 4s is most definitely a better phone than the iPhone 4.

carbonrain
Jun 26, 2012, 12:01 PM
"The news comes by way of a research note from William Blair's Anil Doradla."

Anil Doradla... ...is an anagram for All Android... something's fishy...

likemyorbs
Jun 26, 2012, 12:02 PM
While I think it's ridiculous that you expect a major upgrade on every model they release, there is a little truth in what you say.

I don't. I do however expect that a phone released in June 2010 and the most current phone in June 2012 should have significant differences between them.

rjohnstone
Jun 26, 2012, 12:02 PM
Anyway, this report ONLY takes into account Verizon STORES. Which is about the only place you can get the Razr Maxx.
You can get a RAZR MAXX on Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart, Target... and so on.
It's widely available. ;)

starbird
Jun 26, 2012, 12:03 PM
This isn't suprising. Had a relative go to a Verizon store to get an iPhone (not guided by me) and they actively turned her around into an android phone (which she eventually disliked for being glitchy, not sure if that was installed junk on it or what).

So yeah, the current phone has been out a long time and Verizon is actively having their store salesfolks steer customers into android instead...its amazing the iPhone is still number 2 considering the headwinds its facing from Verizon corporate and sales staff.

1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

I was getting calls weekly from Verizon to "upgrade" to a Droid. I finally asked them to stop calling, I'll upgrade when the new iPhone is released. The sales rep on the phone then went into how much better the new droids are than the iPhone, etc. I laughed and said thanks, but don't worry, I'll be preordering the new iPhone the moment I am able to, and asked to not be called about it again. It's been just over a week, so we shall see.

aajeev
Jun 26, 2012, 12:04 PM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

I have no idea what you are talking about, and this is coming from a three times experience. I switched from ATT to Verizon, when iPhone 4 first came out on Verizon. Walk into the store ask for one and 20 minutes later walked out with one. A month later, went back to Verizon store asked for another iPhone (switching my sister from ATT to Verizon), again walked out with an iPhone. Four month later did the same for my fiancÚ. So really I have no idea where your claim is coming from, I asked for an iPhone and their question was "what color and how big the memory you want?". Every single time, from three different time period. Also, between two different stores more than 200 miles apart.

BTW, not a single time was I told or the word Android was mentioned to me.

zeromeus
Jun 26, 2012, 12:06 PM
Our local Verizon store didn't even mention the iPhone when I went into the store to sign up for a plan; in fact, I had to ask them about the iPhone because they were only pushing Droids.

[Edit: There wasn't even an iPhone on display in the store.]

You just proved to them that they don't need to market or advertise or even display the iPhone. It's so popular people would ask for it. Why waste a phone that they could sell by displaying it?

racer1441
Jun 26, 2012, 12:06 PM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

I have never had issues getting a verizon iphone. I've had one myself, and I have been with 4 other people who bought one in the store.

Go in, say you want the iphone, and you're good to go.

Oletros
Jun 26, 2012, 12:06 PM
I don't care if Droid Rzr Maxx is the bestselling phone on Verizon, but was not said that bringing the iPhone to Verizon would crush Android sales?

pohl
Jun 26, 2012, 12:07 PM
Sure, blame Verizon. I'm a grown A$$ man.

I don't even want to know what an "A$$ man" is. That sounds like a private matter, no matter how proud you are to be one.

Caliber26
Jun 26, 2012, 12:09 PM
It needs a UI revamp BADLYYYYYYYY. and also quicker acess to Bluetooth and etc.

Dammit, all I want is the freaking ability to remove the Stock, Weather, Voice Memos, and Compass apps!!! I can't believe we're five years into iOS and I still cannot choose which apps I want off MY phone.

Other than that, I have no complaints. Sure, I'd like to see iOS drastically change (it's getting a little long in the tooth) and I'm also praying that the longer-but-not-wider screen rumors are nothing more than that: rumors.

EDIT: I also want that wretched Newsstand off of my iPhone/iPad. :)

Michael Scrip
Jun 26, 2012, 12:10 PM
As ignorant as this sounds on the surface, it makes good business sense. Its not about the device quality. Its about making money. Verizon pays less for an Android device, and therefore pays less in subsidy to the device manufacturer. More people on Android means more profit for the carrier.

Both the iPhone and the Droid make Verizon about $90 a month from each customer. That's the business Verizon is in... selling expensive contracts.

I often hear that the iPhone costs Verizon more money to subsidize.

But in this thread I also heard that Verizon gives $75 to a salesperson to sell a non-iPhone.

So how much difference does that make in the end?

chrmjenkins
Jun 26, 2012, 12:11 PM
The screen on the RAZR may not be industry-leading, but it doesn't mean that it isn't still good for most tasks.

Let me put it this way. The screen on every other major smartphone (apple, samsung, htc, nokia) out there is better.

JAT
Jun 26, 2012, 12:11 PM
Apple should update their phones every 6-8 months. The 4S would have been better received with this life cycle.
With the US cellular companies' system, you can only upgrade every two years without wasting money. Relax.

Caliber26
Jun 26, 2012, 12:15 PM
It's almost like Apple is starting to follow Intel's Tick-Tock cycle. Major change one year (iPhone 3G, iPhone 4), incremental improvements the following year (iPhone 3Gs, iPhone 4s). Repeat.

Wonder if that has anything to do with 99.9% of people being stuck in 2-year contracts?

Doesn't make sense for people like you that have to upgrade every year, but for folks coming out of a 2-year contract, the iPhone 4s is most definitely a better phone than the iPhone 4.

This actually makes a lot of sense. Most of us in these forums would love a big upgrade every 12 months and would be happy to hand out the money for one, but the vast majority of people don't think like us. They want a nice phone that's practical and affordable; meaning they will plan on keeping that device until they're once again eligible for a subsidy on the device. Apple doing major refreshes every other year actually works out for the majority. Sucks for the rest of us who want the latest and greatest, but hey, it is what it is.

arbitter
Jun 26, 2012, 12:20 PM
Whoa, Motorola? I have not seen a Motorola in the wild since... More than 5 years, at least! And surely not a smartphone.

Nevertheless, I guess there's a bunch being distributed in the US. But they're not really showing up here in Belgium though. The most smartphones I spot, are first of all cheapass-Frodo-Samsung phones from around 100-200 euros. From the high-end smartphone the most spotted is the iPhone I think though, and next I'd say HTC. And the higher end Samsung devices - I have only spotted one, 1 year ago, no idea which version it was. The only thing I could think was how the hell the huge device can possibly fit in one's pockets. This is also the reason I hope the form-factor change is and always will be a rumor. What's the hype of all these big screens? Tablet != smartphone.

jdbr
Jun 26, 2012, 12:20 PM
To be honest Apple needs to update their phone slightly more frequently. The cycle seems to be every two years, with a slight update half way through. Is that really all they can do? If the next phone is amazing and well ahead of the competition, maybe that cycle is fine; but?

minderbinder106
Jun 26, 2012, 12:20 PM
While I think it's ridiculous that you expect a major upgrade on every model they release, there is a little truth in what you say. However, I think everyone knew Apple wouldn't jump on 4G right away. Look at all the battery issues the first 4G Android phones had.

However, fast forward to today, and we are sorely in need of a 4G iPhone. And I think it's safe to assume that if the iPad 3 has it, the iPhone 5 will probably have it too. I don't think Apple is over confident or blind to the fact that the iPhone needs 4G. I think they just like to make sure the product is a good product, not just throw a bunch of crap against the wall and see what sticks like some other companies do. I don't think the next iPhone is going to make you want to switch to Android.

It's not ridiculous to expect a major upgrade when they only release 1 new model a year. However, Apple was smart not to include 4G in the 4s. They couldn't afford to have their only phone have horrible battery life like the 1st batch of Android LTE phones such as the HTC Thunderbolt or LG Revolution.

kdog005
Jun 26, 2012, 12:23 PM
As a member of Verizon Management, I can tell you that this isn't because of Device quality, this is because one of our most forced KPI's in stores is LTE.

As a manager, I have to contantly be on my sales reps about selling LTE devices over anything, despite any actual qulification for an iPhone. Fact of the matter is, Verizon is pushing LTE harder than anything and this is evidence of it.

It's so bad on a store level, that it's to the point where I have to fire reps if they aren't selling LTE devices over the iPhone.

So as much as these articles may make you think, the real matter is that on a store level, Reps are strong armed into selling LTE over anything or their job could be on the line.

Val-kyrie
Jun 26, 2012, 12:24 PM
They are probably getting spiffs for selling Androids, hence they don't care about iPhone.
Also, think of this: their sales people were brainwashed at the begining, to believe the iPhone sucks and that Android is the best, turning them into Droidboys. They pushed the Android phones as much as they could since the days of the new iPhone. Now they can't say the opposite as they would be going against their own religion.

Either way, Verizon sucks in South Florida, so I could care less of what they do.

I doubt their salespeople are brainwashed--all three of the associates at the counter had iPhones in their pockets! It must have just been a week that they were supposed to push certain other models.

aristobrat
Jun 26, 2012, 12:24 PM
Update: A separate analyst (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/26/apples_iphone_4s_remains_top_selling_smartphone_at_verizon.html) claims that the iPhone 4S remains the top selling smarpthone at Verizon.
So in other words, other than analysts' "educated guesses", nobody knows what the top-selling phone at Verizon is.

Navdakilla
Jun 26, 2012, 12:28 PM
Just wait until Iphone 5 drops!

kdog005
Jun 26, 2012, 12:29 PM
I doubt their salespeople are brainwashed--all three of the associates at the counter had iPhones in their pockets! It must have just been a week that they were supposed to push certain other models.

Again, this is not true.

Despite what they carry, Verizon Sales Reps are strong armed into selling LTE as it's their #1 KPI. Additionally, there's no data feature spiff on iPhones where there are on Androids, hence the additional motivation to make more commission on an Android device.

Malligator
Jun 26, 2012, 12:30 PM
The iPhone's years in the #1 bestselling spot has been explained away by calling iPhone users Sheeple. All I can say is, "Bahhhhh, Droid users. Bahhhhhh."

lw9090
Jun 26, 2012, 12:31 PM
Verizon pushes Android because of the commision. I seen a salesman push an android to a 70yo lady that didn't need it. All she wanted to do was replace her flip phone. They tried to tell her there wasn't any flip phones and all phones were going to Android. The funniest part was they salesaman got a phone call on his iPhone. :eek:

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 26, 2012, 12:34 PM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

While some of your rant may be factual, I have two iPhone's, both purchased at Verizon stores, both without the sales rep batting an eyelash. There was no attempt to dissuade us or sell us anything else, other than the soft-sell for a case (which they ended up giving us for free...but it was a crappy case).

AppleDroid
Jun 26, 2012, 12:35 PM
I can provide one reason for declining sales because I just made a post about Verizon stores and pushing people away from them in order to pimp MAXX sales. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1393258

charlituna
Jun 26, 2012, 12:36 PM
Fortune (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/26/apples-iphone-is-no-longer-verizons-bestseller/) reports that Apple's iPhone has dropped from the top selling smartphone position in Verizon retail stores for the first time since the carrier started selling the device. The news comes by way of a research note from William Blair's Anil Doradla.The results are based on "channel checks" from the April-May-June quarter of 2012. The iPhone was reportedly dethroned by the Motorola Droid RAZR MAXX, but remains in the number two spot ahead of the Samsung Galaxy Nexus.


but has it been dethroned as the most popular phone on the service.

Remember you can get a Verizon iPhone at Verizon, Best Buy, Apple Retail Stores, Apple Online, etc. Given that Verizon is going to kick you to Apple for instructions on how to use it, tech support etc, it is very plausible that many folks just buy it via Apple not the Verizon stores where some of the sales folks have no clue what the heck Apple Care is and those that do ignore it to sell you their insurance that is way more costly but gets the rep a commission. Folks are getting wise to this and ignoring the Verizon stores for that reason also

Compare this to the number of places you can get a Verizon Razr or Galaxy. Verizon stores and maybe Best Buy?

PlutoPrime
Jun 26, 2012, 12:37 PM
You get a thumbs up. You are correct. When you compare the iPhone with the current model droids, the iPhone has fallen behind. Apple is a little over confident in my opinion.

HOW?

Is the android software somehow better? What is the KILLER feature that android has that is so incredibly amazing and modern and ahead of the times that an average person would actually give a second glance about?

Is the android hardware better? I have a $700 unlocked Galaxy Nexus on my desk right now and it can barely render a card game without lagging like it's trying to run Crysis 3 on a pentium 90mhz from 1995. Not to mention the ridiculous super AMOLED screen with the ugly pentile grainy look, over saturated colors that make my eyes bleed like I'm high on acid or something.

No. iPhone 4S is in fact still the best phone on the market.

What's hilarious here is that other manufacturers seem to have a "random phone generator" that spits out a "new" device every 5 minutes, and they still can't come up with something as polished. That's what happens when you have monkeys on type-writers.

kdog005
Jun 26, 2012, 12:37 PM
I can also say that after July 1st, Verizon's commission structure for device payout is changing entirely based on the Rate Plan changes.

It's worth noting that LTE devices will be paying almost double and iPhone commision is staying the same, to further solidify the fact that Verizon is making a push for LTE on store levels.

We had a regional conference call this morning and was essentially told that if we don't have our reps push LTE over iPhones, we could find new jobs. So for all of you hate mongers out their suggesting that device quality is the reasoning behind these sales numbers, you had better re-evaluate the situation and all the facts.

urbanlung
Jun 26, 2012, 12:37 PM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

Who pays the $75 commission, Verizon or the manufacturer?

bushido
Jun 26, 2012, 12:38 PM
i'm soooooo tempted to buy an Galaxy SIII after having owned the iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S, its time to try something new. but i'm holding out for the iPhone 5 and decide then. the iCloud is kinda holding me back also

charlituna
Jun 26, 2012, 12:38 PM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Apple updated the phone last Oct and June 2010, June 2009 etc.

Just because you don't like the updates or you view the issue of 'outdated' strictly by them changing the body type doesn't equal to it actually being outdated.

jjarzeb2
Jun 26, 2012, 12:39 PM
My wife and I went to the local Verizon store to buy an iPhone. We were dead set on buying the iPhone. The sales rep spent at least 30 minutes trying to make us change our mind and get an Android instead. He insisted heavily and implied that we were being stupid for buying an iPhone: "no turn by turn directions", "no 4G", "no physical keyboard", "only a smaller screen than the RAZR", "no 4G, your data will be much slower", "accessories will be more expensive", "watch out, if you don't have a MAC, you might have problems", and on, and on.

I really think that Verizon sales rep are asked to sell Android instead of iPhones. Maybe they make more money per Android sold than per iPhone sold (not the same subsidies).

I am just surprised that Apple has not done anything to stop this (to my knowledge).

Our local Verizon store didn't even mention the iPhone when I went into the store to sign up for a plan; in fact, I had to ask them about the iPhone because they were only pushing Droids.

[Edit: There wasn't even an iPhone on display in the store.]

charlituna
Jun 26, 2012, 12:39 PM
Our local Verizon store didn't even mention the iPhone when I went into the store to sign up for a plan; in fact, I had to ask them about the iPhone because they were only pushing Droids.


Sales staff probably doesn't get a commission on selling iPhones and does on everything else. So yeah they will discourage sales that don't get them anything

ReallyBigFeet
Jun 26, 2012, 12:43 PM
Who pays the $75 commission, Verizon or the manufacturer?

The only way to get people to buy an Android over an iPhone is to have Motorola bribe the sales people?

charlituna
Jun 26, 2012, 12:48 PM
I was getting calls weekly from Verizon to "upgrade" to a Droid. I finally asked them to stop calling, I'll upgrade when the new iPhone is released. The sales rep on the phone then went into how much better the new droids are than the iPhone, etc.

I got that nonsense too. I cut him off about 3 words in and told him that I wasn't interested in his nonsense because it was my money and my choice and not only was I upgrading to an iPhone I wouldn't be buying it from him unless you decided to go work for ATT.

That stopped the phone calls from Verizon real fast. I think they were worried another one would piss me off enough to make good on my threat to switch. Which was a tad pointless since my iPhone is already on ATT cause that's what my boss will cover for it. They got my name off my signing up my iPad for Verizon to get the LTE

DeathChill
Jun 26, 2012, 12:59 PM
Not sure why anyone is taking this seriously. Two analysts saying two different things. Wait for Verizon to announce their quarterly results.

dokujaryu
Jun 26, 2012, 01:04 PM
Not me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntxKRj9DRnc

polaris20
Jun 26, 2012, 01:05 PM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Once a year, every year!

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone.

Why, did you hear that it's not coming out in the Fall, as it did last year? That would be a new rumor.

The 4S was an abomination. I mean come on, im using an iPhone 4 that i purchased in June 2010 the day it came out. I have it jailbroken and running siri, there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone.
It's pathetic, and no i don't consider a bump in processor speed to be a major update.

Either you can't read, or you've never even used a 4S. It's faster. It has Siri without having to jailbreak it, the still images are FAR better, the video is FAR better. On AT&T, the 3G is faster (yes, it's still 3G).

In addition to that, the screen IS too damn small whether you want to admit it or not. If the new iphone isn't significantly improved and changed, im going android. And this is coming from an apple fanboy.

Adios. Enjoy the malware, lack of OS updates, and horrible battery life. As a reformed Android girl, my wife loves her 4S. I don't have a problem with the screen size on the 4 or 4S, because I like it fitting comfortably in my front pocket. And I'm not even a hipster. Think of those kids with their tight jeans!

Luckily we all have choice. You're welcome to use whatever phone you want. If I weren't heavily invested in iOS apps, I'd wait for Windows Phone 8. Such a nicer platform than Android.

ed724
Jun 26, 2012, 01:06 PM
Dammit, all I want is the freaking ability to remove the Stock, Weather, Voice Memos, and Compass apps!!! I can't believe we're five years into iOS and I still cannot choose which apps I want off MY phone.

Other than that, I have no complaints. Sure, I'd like to see iOS drastically change (it's getting a little long in the tooth) and I'm also praying that the longer-but-not-wider screen rumors are nothing more than that: rumors.

EDIT: I also want that wretched Newsstand off of my iPhone/iPad. :)

Sounds like you need a jailbreak moment ! You should try it, you can always back out if you don't like it.

polaris20
Jun 26, 2012, 01:07 PM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

You can't be serious. I know a ton of people who have iPhones on Verizon, that they purchased in-store. At no point were they hassled and pushed towards another phone.

ed724
Jun 26, 2012, 01:10 PM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination. I mean come on, im using an iPhone 4 that i purchased in June 2010 the day it came out. I have it jailbroken and running siri, there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone. It's pathetic, and no i don't consider a bump in processor speed to be a major update. In addition to that, the screen IS too damn small whether you want to admit it or not. If the new iphone isn't significantly improved and changed, im going android. And this is coming from an apple fanboy.

You're just a twinkie. It's not just the processor speed, its also the processor architecture that makes it faster + more ram and storage options. The retina display is worth the difference alone. You're just mad 'cause you don't have one. Face it. Siri is a joke so it doesn't count. Hope you enjoy the android, you'll be back once you have to deal with the crappy UI.

JBaker122586
Jun 26, 2012, 01:17 PM
You can get a RAZR MAXX on Amazon, Best Buy, Walmart, Target... and so on.
It's widely available. ;)

My point isn't that it's not widely available. But the vast majority of people are getting it at the Verizon store. You can get an iPhone at all those places too. But they aren't selling the Razr Maxx at the Apple Store, the top retail store in America. They are selling the iPhone there. And in heavy volume.

ramuman
Jun 26, 2012, 01:18 PM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination. I mean come on, im using an iPhone 4 that i purchased in June 2010 the day it came out. I have it jailbroken and running siri, there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone. It's pathetic, and no i don't consider a bump in processor speed to be a major update. In addition to that, the screen IS too damn small whether you want to admit it or not. If the new iphone isn't significantly improved and changed, im going android. And this is coming from an apple fanboy.

Nevermind...found the bigger pic.

rjohnstone
Jun 26, 2012, 01:23 PM
My point isn't that it's not widely available. But the vast majority of people are getting it at the Verizon store. You can get an iPhone at all those places too. But they aren't selling the Razr Maxx at the Apple Store, the top retail store in America. They are selling the iPhone there. And in heavy volume.
No... you did not say that.

I'll quote you again...

Anyway, this report ONLY takes into account Verizon STORES. Which is about the only place you can get the Razr Maxx.
That statement is incorrect.

AR999
Jun 26, 2012, 01:27 PM
Verizon pushes Android because of the commision. I seen a salesman push an android to a 70yo lady that didn't need it. All she wanted to do was replace her flip phone. They tried to tell her there wasn't any flip phones and all phones were going to Android. The funniest part was they salesaman got a phone call on his iPhone. :eek:

And whats wrong with that?

There are very few flip phones around, if any. Are you disappointed the salesman didn't recommend her an iPhone by any chance? Thats an expensive phone.

There are many android based phones that are much cheaper than the iPhone and since the lady only wanted something basic a cheap android phone would make a lot more sense than an iphone.

CrAkD
Jun 26, 2012, 01:29 PM
Yeah it's gaining ground because every Verizon employee is pushing it and crapping all over the iPhone to their customers.

AR999
Jun 26, 2012, 01:29 PM
HOW?

Is the android software somehow better? What is the KILLER feature that android has that is so incredibly amazing and modern and ahead of the times that an average person would actually give a second glance about?

Is the android hardware better? I have a $700 unlocked Galaxy Nexus on my desk right now and it can barely render a card game without lagging like it's trying to run Crysis 3 on a pentium 90mhz from 1995. Not to mention the ridiculous super AMOLED screen with the ugly pentile grainy look, over saturated colors that make my eyes bleed like I'm high on acid or something.

IM MY HUMBLE OPINION The iPhone 4S is in fact still the best phone on the market.

What's hilarious here is that other manufacturers seem to have a "random phone generator" that spits out a "new" device every 5 minutes, and they still can't come up with something as polished. That's what happens when you have monkeys on type-writers.

Corrected.

millarj
Jun 26, 2012, 01:30 PM
To be honest, I too have to say that my original vzw iPhone 4 is pretty boring.
It does what I ask it to do, nothing more, nothing less...boring.

Now, the droid I had before that was the exact opposite. It did lots of things I didn't want it to, and not a whole lot of what I DID want it to. I never knew if the thing was going to work, connect a call, freeze, shutdown randomly, or what. Life with that phone sure was exciting! Certainly not boring like my boring little iPhone.

Good tech should be boring. It should do what it's supposed to do. That's the genius of the iPhone. I can utterly rely on it to perform as expected. That's why it's always with me. Always.

All that said, bring on the LTE iPhone 5 (or whatever it'll be called) :)

wovel
Jun 26, 2012, 01:40 PM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination. I mean come on, im using an iPhone 4 that i purchased in June 2010 the day it came out. I have it jailbroken and running siri, there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone. It's pathetic, and no i don't consider a bump in processor speed to be a major update. In addition to that, the screen IS too damn small whether you want to admit it or not. If the new iphone isn't significantly improved and changed, im going android. And this is coming from an apple fanboy.

To bad the story was wrong...

----------

Corrected.

There is no reason to add a qualifying statement to a post on an Internet forum. We knew it was his opinion. (Much like your post is also your opinion, but you failed to mention it).

Glideslope
Jun 26, 2012, 01:52 PM
We'll see what happens in October!

September. :apple:

ThunderSkunk
Jun 26, 2012, 01:53 PM
To bad the story was wrong...

he's got a point though.

The iPhone, well, iOS, could use a little de2007ing. And the hardware could get a bit sleeker again.

Ryth
Jun 26, 2012, 01:56 PM
Gotta love ANALysts trying to generate hits with some bogus information.

he's got a point though.

The iPhone, well, iOS, could use a little de2007ing. And the hardware could get a bit sleeker again.

Hundreds of millions of iOS devices sold say that isn't the case. ;)

Oletros
Jun 26, 2012, 01:59 PM
Gotta love ANALysts trying to generate hits with some bogus information.

What bogus information?

BaldiMac
Jun 26, 2012, 02:02 PM
What bogus information?

One analyst claims the iPhone is the top seller at Verizon retail stores. One analyst claims that it's not. Somebody's information is bogus. :)

G.I. Joe
Jun 26, 2012, 02:07 PM
One analyst claims the iPhone is the top seller at Verizon retail stores. One analyst claims that it's not. Somebody's information is bogus. :)

Not necessarily. Things are not always black or white.

crsh1976
Jun 26, 2012, 02:17 PM
One analyst claims the iPhone is the top seller at Verizon retail stores. One analyst claims that it's not. Somebody's information is bogus. :)

Show me your analyst, I'll show you mine; "analysts" are a dime a dozen, you can find one who will claim the world is flat if you have any need for it.

Mike Valmike
Jun 26, 2012, 02:20 PM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

I call shenanigans. I've bought iPhones at Verizon corporate stores in Phoenix and Chandler (AZ) and have always been treated with courtesy and respect and been spared the sales bunk. Perhaps that's because I knew what I wanted and said so clearly, whereas most customers have no idea about anything and sit there dithering and of course Verizon's sales training will orient them to steer such folks toward the phone offering the highest margin/spiff. But to say they refuse to help an iPhone customer? Even the most bellicose store staffers aren't that tin-eared.

likemyorbs
Jun 26, 2012, 02:23 PM
You're just a twinkie. It's not just the processor speed, its also the processor architecture that makes it faster + more ram and storage options. The retina display is worth the difference alone. You're just mad 'cause you don't have one. Face it. Siri is a joke so it doesn't count. Hope you enjoy the android, you'll be back once you have to deal with the crappy UI.

Research your facts before making stupid points, i stated that i have an iphone 4, which has the same exact retina display as the 4S. I'm not mad because i don't have one, i can easily go and purchase one now since i've been eligible for an upgrade for the last 6 months. I, however, prefer to vote with my wallet. I didn't buy the 4S out of principle, because it was a pathetic update. And yes i have used one, i had the misfortune of buying it for my dad for father's day only because he needed a smartphone and the new iphone isnt coming out until fall.

BaldiMac
Jun 26, 2012, 02:27 PM
Not necessarily. Things are not always black or white.

:confused: It is the top seller or it's not. Where is the gray?

Show me your analyst, I'll show you mine; "analysts" are a dime a dozen, you can find one who will claim the world is flat if you have any need for it.

I'm just pointing out what it says in the original post.

lilo777
Jun 26, 2012, 02:28 PM
One analyst claims the iPhone is the top seller at Verizon retail stores. One analyst claims that it's not. Somebody's information is bogus. :)

Actually both reports are consistent and the thread title is correct. The first analyst reported data for April-May-June quarter whilst the second analysts used the data from the beginning of the year and also said that "Razr is gaining ground". This means that the total iPhone sale numbers for the year are higher than that for RAZR but RAZR is selling better right now.

Oletros
Jun 26, 2012, 02:31 PM
One analyst claims the iPhone is the top seller at Verizon retail stores. One analyst claims that it's not. Somebody's information is bogus. :)

One analyst talks about data from January to May, the other from April to June, both can be right

Malligator
Jun 26, 2012, 02:36 PM
Research your facts before making stupid points, i stated that i have an iphone 4, which has the same exact retina display as the 4S. I'm not mad because i don't have one, i can easily go and purchase one now since i've been eligible for an upgrade for the last 6 months. I, however, prefer to vote with my wallet. I didn't buy the 4S out of principle, because it was a pathetic update. And yes i have used one, i had the misfortune of buying it for my dad for father's day only because he needed a smartphone and the new iphone isnt coming out until fall.

You know you're allowed to keep a phone longer than a year, right? I've owned a total of four phones in my life:

1997: Nokia
2001: Samsung flip phone
2007: iPhone
2010: iPhone 4

Your insatiable consumption is your problem not Apple's.

Warning: Adult Language

http://youtu.be/KpUNA2nutbk

Ryth
Jun 26, 2012, 02:46 PM
One analyst talks about data from January to May, the other from April to June, both can be right

And neither account for the usual slowdown of iPhone purchases in the months before a new one is released.

I remember the 'sky is falling' last July/August in Apple iPhone 4 sales before the 4S came out. The reality was people knew that the new iPhone (4s) was coming.

Glassed Silver
Jun 26, 2012, 02:46 PM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

Excellent summary.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

Glassed Silver:mac

jeremyka
Jun 26, 2012, 02:47 PM
Perhaps the reason is that 4g 32GB maxx is $99 (Amazon Wireless) and 32GB 4s is $299. I wish Apple was more flexible on pricing especially when the new model is months away.

likemyorbs
Jun 26, 2012, 02:49 PM
You know you're allowed to keep a phone longer than a year, right? I've owned a total of four phones in my life:

1997: Nokia
2001: Samsung flip phone
2007: iPhone
2010: iPhone 4

Your insatiable consumption is your problem not Apple's.

Warning: Adult Language

http://youtu.be/KpUNA2nutbk

Oh, so now you're arguing from a moral standpoint? My "insatiable consumption" is fully in line with human nature to want more and continue improving our way of life. By your extremely flawed logic, you should be typing your comments on a commodore 64. Technology changes drastically on a yearly basis, and apple could have had more of my money in 2011 but they didn't because they made a phone that's exactly like my current one. So therefore, my insatiable consumption IS apple's problem. If other companies are making products that are better than their's, it will turn into apple's problem very quickly. Just because you're content with outdated technology it doesn't mean that i should be.

PS
You really need to rethink your talking points, you'll never win a debate like that.

Oletros
Jun 26, 2012, 02:50 PM
And neither account for the usual slowdown of iPhone purchases in the months before a new one is released.

And? Do they have to account for people waiting the GS III release in June for example?

Ryth
Jun 26, 2012, 02:58 PM
And? Do they have to account for people waiting the GS III release in June for example?

If they want to be 'respected' as an analyst, they should try to account for why X is happening and the reasons behind it.

A real analyst like Horace Deidu actually does things like this instead of spouting nonsense like 'Apple's #1 days are over.' from a few numbers without looking deeper.

BaldiMac
Jun 26, 2012, 02:58 PM
Actually both reports are consistent and the thread title is correct. The first analyst reported data for April-May-June quarter whilst the second analysts used the data from the beginning of the year and also said that "Razr is gaining ground". This means that the total iPhone sale numbers for the year are higher than that for RAZR but RAZR is selling better right now.

One analyst talks about data from January to May, the other from April to June, both can be right

Walkley provided rankings on a monthly basis and had the iPhone in the lead for April and in the lead for May. He said today that he does not believe the report that the RAZR MAXX has overtaken the iPhone at Verizon retail stores for the quarter.

Vege-Taco
Jun 26, 2012, 02:59 PM
You know you're allowed to keep a phone longer than a year, right? I've owned a total of four phones in my life:

1997: Nokia
2001: Samsung flip phone
2007: iPhone
2010: iPhone 4

Your insatiable consumption is your problem not Apple's.

Warning: Adult Language

http://youtu.be/KpUNA2nutbk

I've gone through quite a list of smart phones myself....

Motorola DROID
HTC Thunderbolt
Motorola DROID Bionic
:apple: iphone
:apple: iphone 3g
:apple: iphone 3gs
:apple: iphone 4
:apple: iphone 4s

SPUY767
Jun 26, 2012, 03:02 PM
Our local Verizon store didn't even mention the iPhone when I went into the store to sign up for a plan; in fact, I had to ask them about the iPhone because they were only pushing Droids.

[Edit: There wasn't even an iPhone on display in the store.]

That's pretty much the story at any carrier store. Their salespeople all push droids because they make a larger commission. If you dont specifically ask for an iPhone, you won't walk out with one, and most times, even if you do ask for one they will try to steer you away until it looks like you might walk out of the store. I actually find it incredible that the iPhone sells as well as it does with the massive carrier headwind pushing against it.

BornAgainApple
Jun 26, 2012, 03:04 PM
He said/He said

Oletros
Jun 26, 2012, 03:12 PM
If they want to be 'respected' as an analyst, they should try to account for why X is happening and the reasons behind it.

A real analyst like Horace Deidu actually does things like this instead of spouting nonsense like 'Apple's #1 days are over.' from a few numbers without looking deeper.

Does he have into account ALL the other phones release dates or only Apple's?

Malligator
Jun 26, 2012, 03:27 PM
Oh, so now you're arguing from a moral standpoint? My "insatiable consumption" is fully in line with human nature to want more and continue improving our way of life. By your extremely flawed logic, you should be typing your comments on a commodore 64. Technology changes drastically on a yearly basis, and apple could have had more of my money in 2011 but they didn't because they made a phone that's exactly like my current one. So therefore, my insatiable consumption IS apple's problem. If other companies are making products that are better than their's, it will turn into apple's problem very quickly. Just because you're content with outdated technology it doesn't mean that i should be.

PS
You really need to rethink your talking points, you'll never win a debate like that.

No I shouldn't be on a Commodore 64, becuase the Commodore 64 is, in fact, outdated. It can't connect to the internet and doesn't run a GUI or browser so I couldn't respond to you on one. My original iPhone, however, is my neice's primary phone. It doesn't have the upgrades introduced over the last 5 years, but as a communication device it is still very usable. It can make calls, email, text, run apps, surf the web, take pictures, play music, and movies. It can, in fact, do most of what your iPhone 4 can do. It's aging, not outdated. See the difference? Probably not. Oh, well. Please do continue to measure your quality of life by the phone in your pocket.

P.S. My wife's computer is a 2002 eMac. She works from home so she's on it 8 hours a day everyday. It runs on OS X 10.4 and runs like a champ. I think we all confuse needs with wants. If you're a computer/gadget fanatic then by all means buy a ton of them. I'm not judging that. I spend a ton on my hobbies, too. Just realize that, no, you really don't need a new cell phone every year.

tigress666
Jun 26, 2012, 03:45 PM
Research your facts before making stupid points, i stated that i have an iphone 4, which has the same exact retina display as the 4S. I'm not mad because i don't have one, i can easily go and purchase one now since i've been eligible for an upgrade for the last 6 months. I, however, prefer to vote with my wallet. I didn't buy the 4S out of principle, because it was a pathetic update. And yes i have used one, i had the misfortune of buying it for my dad for father's day only because he needed a smartphone and the new iphone isnt coming out until fall.

I think the 4S is a great update for those it is aimed at, 3GS and prior iphone owners and new iphone owners. You have to remember, Apple, being very US centric, is aiming their phones towards the standard US cellphone contract, 2 years. Cause that's how long they expect most people to keep their phones. So they are trying to appeal to people whose contracts are running out at the time, not the few tech geeks who have enough money to upgrade every year (you have to have money and be a total tech geek for that honestly. I love gadgets but even I can wait my full phone contract before getting a new one).

You have a 4, they weren't aiming that upgrade at you. Your 4 wasn't all that impressive to 3GS owners (but to 3G owners it was a pretty good leap). Sure, it had the gimmicky retina display but honestly? It's nice but it's not all that. It's not a reason I'd upgrade my phone for. The 3GS had the same complaints people complain about the 4s from 3G owners (a processor upgrade? That's it?). But which phone is still being supported even for the newest OS and which lost support a year and a half or more ago, huh? Processor upgrade is a very good upgrade so before you stick your nose up at it, look what happened to the 3G that didn't get one vs. the 3GS that did.

(and yes, I'm waiting for the next iphone but that's cause by the time my upgrade came along, the 4S was already not so new so I'd rather spend the money on a phone that is brand spanking new. Though honestly my 4 now is reminding me of my 3G in how annoying it runs. I really do wonder if I'm better off getting myself on the S upgrade schedule, they get the phones that seem to stay relevant longer with their faster processor upgrades. But hey, I'm on a budget so waiting for the next phone is better on my budget by making my phone last longer. Be even better if I waited til next year, but, I do love my gadgets ;) ).

aliensporebomb
Jun 26, 2012, 04:17 PM
"The news comes by way of a research note from William Blair's Anil Doradla."

Anil Doradla... ...is an anagram for All Android... something's fishy...

good catch!

SPUY767
Jun 26, 2012, 04:29 PM
"The news comes by way of a research note from William Blair's Anil Doradla."

Anil Doradla... ...is an anagram for All Android... something's fishy...

Thanks, Rain Man. :D

Ajones330
Jun 26, 2012, 04:39 PM
1. Um, Verizon salespeople are TRAINED to NOT LET ANY CUSTOMERS WALK OUT THE DOOR WITH an iPhone. Have any of you actually tried to walk into a Verizon store and purchase an iPhone? It is IMPOSSIBLE. I've tried it on 8 occasions, and Fortune Magazine documents this as well. It is IMPOSSIBLE to do so. Go ahead... I DARE YOU to walk into a Verizon store and try to purchase an iPhone.
2. Furthermore, Verizon salespeople make $75 commission on every NON-iPhone that they sell, but they only make a $5 commission on every iPhone they sell.
3. Verizon salespeople are BERATED by their managers and given WARNINGS if they sell an iPhone.

So it makes perfect sense that the iPhone isn't their best-selling device. This has been Verizon's plan all along.

WHY?

Because once people love the iPhone, they are loyal to the phone and not the carrier. The iPhone relegates Verizon to the dumb pipe that they are, and they don't like that one bit.

Sounds a little over the top...

Oletros
Jun 26, 2012, 04:43 PM
Too many Apple fans have been advising their friends Android devices are okay to buy and use. When the truth is Android is not okay or acceptable for real people. People need to urge their friends and family to buy the best product for the most amazing mobile experiences as possible. Those devices are iOS.

If we get complacent our dear Apple will lose their place at the top of the league. This is a healthy reminder we most do more to promote the best products.

:D:D:D:D:D

Because you're joking, don't you?

Tinyluph
Jun 26, 2012, 04:50 PM
My friend has a RAZR Maxx. Every time I see it I just think about how stupid I would feel if there were a giant Verizon logo above my iPhone's home button.

JoEw
Jun 26, 2012, 05:26 PM
Verizon is pushing LTE, every Verizon commercial is pushing LTE, and every store associate is trained to convince people not to get an iPhone. Obviously if a costumer has faith the associate knows what he/she is talking about, the average costumer will listen to what the associate is saying.

why doesn't Verizon want people to get an iPhone? The fact is, is that the iPhone uses more data than any other smartphone on the market on average. This isn't due to inefficiency it's because Safari offers a superior browsing experience that make using the internet on a phone even if it's only 3.5 inches better than other phones. Satisfaction ratings are proof of this.

When an associate is telling non-techies that a bigger screen is a better experience and that this screen is better because it uses a newer technology. People will obviusly be swayed and probably will barely use the android phone before the associate is already ringing them up.

And I won't be ignorant to the fact that iPhone does need an upgrade sooner than later. And loss in sales can partially be attributed to this. But I have had the same iPhone for 2 years and the "4G" and "bigger screen" slogans thrown from android commercials has not swung me over. Nor will it likely ever since the next iPhone update is likely to be pretty sweet :cool::apple:

dannys1
Jun 26, 2012, 06:37 PM
This actually makes a lot of sense. Most of us in these forums would love a big upgrade every 12 months and would be happy to hand out the money for one, but the vast majority of people don't think like us. They want a nice phone that's practical and affordable; meaning they will plan on keeping that device until they're once again eligible for a subsidy on the device. Apple doing major refreshes every other year actually works out for the majority. Sucks for the rest of us who want the latest and greatest, but hey, it is what it is.

The ironic thing is most people I know moan that Apple upgrades too often - infact I hear this all the time. "Theres a new iPad already? We only bought the other one last week" etc etc.

Just goes to show you can't make all of the people happy all the time.

MythicFrost
Jun 26, 2012, 07:25 PM
Perhaps if Apple updated their extremely outdated phone every once in a while...

Go ahead and give me a thumbs down, it's true. Apple is seriously dragging their feet with the iPhone. The 4S was an abomination. I mean come on, im using an iPhone 4 that i purchased in June 2010 the day it came out. I have it jailbroken and running siri, there's no real difference between my 2 year old phone and apple's most up to date phone. It's pathetic, and no i don't consider a bump in processor speed to be a major update. In addition to that, the screen IS too damn small whether you want to admit it or not. If the new iphone isn't significantly improved and changed, im going android. And this is coming from an apple fanboy.
What? The 4S was a solid improvement over the 4 -- you may not be interested in what it offers (performance) but that doesn't mean it's a dud.

Michael Scrip
Jun 26, 2012, 07:28 PM
The ironic thing is most people I know moan that Apple upgrades too often - infact I hear this all the time. "Theres a new iPad already? We only bought the other one last week" etc etc.

Just goes to show you can't make all of the people happy all the time.

Think about the people who bought the Droid Razr and then 2 months later the Droid Razr MAXX came out...

DakotaGuy
Jun 26, 2012, 07:31 PM
With the Droid RAZR MAXX both having LTE and amazing battery life, that's no surprise.

Later this week you will be able to add a nice version of ICS which looks closer to stock then anything HTC or Samsung offers to that list.

MACdaddy859
Jun 26, 2012, 08:23 PM
I don't even want to know what an "A$$ man" is. That sounds like a private matter, no matter how proud you are to be one.

you cornball...

Chase R
Jun 26, 2012, 08:49 PM
I suspect Verizon's share of iPhone to grow much more when iPhone 5 comes out. I'm sure there are many people, I included, that bought iPhone 4 when it came out and are waiting for there 2 year contract from at&t to expire.

I can't wait until the day I can read "Verizon" in the top right corner of my iPhone. AT&T's network is just stupid, especially in Oregon.

un10101
Jun 26, 2012, 08:53 PM
Regardless, I am very happy with my iPhone 4s, and will continue to be so. I am waiting on the New iPhone to come out, hoping that it will be more improved. I am looking forward to finally getting on 4G LTE, though. Apple should have had that from the 4's beginning.

jontech
Jun 26, 2012, 09:05 PM
As ignorant as this sounds on the surface, it makes good business sense. Its not about the device quality. Its about making money. Verizon pays less for an Android device, and therefore pays less in subsidy to the device manufacturer. More people on Android means more profit for the carrier.

Agreed

And they can install their crapware on the device too.

BC2009
Jun 27, 2012, 03:09 AM
I suspect Verizon's share of iPhone to grow much more when iPhone 5 comes out. I'm sure there are many people, I included, that bought iPhone 4 when it came out and are waiting for there 2 year contract from at&t to expire.

I can't wait until the day I can read "Verizon" in the top right corner of my iPhone. AT&T's network is just stupid, especially in Oregon.

Top-left corner. :)

If you buy the new iPad you can enjoy seeing "Verizon LTE" in the top-left corner. Currently, my iPhone 4S says "AT&T 4G" which is a nice improvement, but I am looking forward to "AT&T LTE". I buy Verizon iPads and AT&T iPhones to hedge my bets on coverage while traveling. Plus, I get a better corporate discount at AT&T and I have grand-fathered unlimited data. But with LTE hotspot on the new iPad, I can't imagine buying an AT&T iPad.

BC2009
Jun 27, 2012, 03:23 AM
What? The 4S was a solid improvement over the 4 -- you may not be interested in what it offers (performance) but that doesn't mean it's a dud.

Improvements in the 4S were actually pretty good:

- Faster processor with dual cores
- Brighter screen
- 64GB option
- Faster GSM connectivity
- Better proximity sensor for Siri "raise to speak" feature
- Significantly improved camera with face detection
- 1080p video shooting with stabilization
- Better antenna system
- Bluetooth 4.0
- Improved battery life

Software-wise you get Siri and a couple other minor features, but I assume jail-breakers can get those on an iPhone 4. I upgraded from iPhone 3GS (currently on the "S upgrade cycle") and so far I have found the 4S to be incredible.

The only thing lacking in the iPhone 4S was LTE, but if they had used the power-hungry LTE chips that were available in the Fall of 2011 I would not have been happy.

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 03:47 AM
Improvements in the 4S were actually pretty good:


I don't know why people say that the 4S was only a minor upgrade, it was a huge upgrade from the iPhone 4. Perhaps people looks a it and see that externally is like the iPhone 4

japasneezemonk
Jun 27, 2012, 04:22 AM
Does he have into account ALL the other phones release dates or only Apple's?

Horace Deidu isn't an analyst like Gardner, Mully, or Zaky and he's stated that he doesn't pretend to know what the future holds for Apple or Google. He simply analyzes Apple and the decisions the firm has made that have led it to this explosive growth we are seeing (he now does the same for Google and its Android eco-system, and other key players in the smartphone industry). His goal is to find the seeds that have created innovative DNA and have given both of these giants massive inroads to the still balkanized telecom industry. He analyzes older data and relates it to previously disruptive innovations that have now become common and have created international conglomerates (ex:aviation) and through data compares these industries and their disruptions to Apple and Google. He is a ex-nokia Engineer and studied under Clay Christensen, so most of his theory is based on the prescription of disruptive solutions to innovation and growth. As far as I can tell he doesn't actually count Android phones by release date, he only counts units shipped or activated.

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 05:19 AM
Horace Deidu isn't an analyst like Gardner, Mully, or Zaky and he's stated that he doesn't pretend to know what the future holds for Apple or Google. He simply analyzes Apple and the decisions the firm has made that have led it to this explosive growth we are seeing (he now does the same for Google and its Android eco-system, and other key players in the smartphone industry). His goal is to find the seeds that have created innovative DNA and have given both of these giants massive inroads to the still balkanized telecom industry. He analyzes older data and relates it to previously disruptive innovations that have now become common and have created international conglomerates (ex:aviation) and through data compares these industries and their disruptions to Apple and Google. He is a ex-nokia Engineer and studied under Clay Christensen, so most of his theory is based on the prescription of disruptive solutions to innovation and growth. As far as I can tell he doesn't actually count Android phones by release date, he only counts units shipped or activated.


Well, the OP was saying that an analyst that doesn't have into account the release cycle of iPhone when talking about sales is not a serious analyst.

My question is, does it have to have into account the other manufacturers release cycles?

MythicFrost
Jun 27, 2012, 05:40 AM
Improvements in the 4S were actually pretty good:

- Faster processor with dual cores
- Brighter screen
- 64GB option
- Faster GSM connectivity
- Better proximity sensor for Siri "raise to speak" feature
- Significantly improved camera with face detection
- 1080p video shooting with stabilization
- Better antenna system
- Bluetooth 4.0
- Improved battery life

Software-wise you get Siri and a couple other minor features, but I assume jail-breakers can get those on an iPhone 4. I upgraded from iPhone 3GS (currently on the "S upgrade cycle") and so far I have found the 4S to be incredible.

The only thing lacking in the iPhone 4S was LTE, but if they had used the power-hungry LTE chips that were available in the Fall of 2011 I would not have been happy.
Exactly... it's a pretty good update. Hopefully we'll see a quad-core A9 or dual-core A15 as well as LTE, larger screen size, and more battery life :D

I might upgrade to the 5 I'm not sure yet...

NIKKG
Jun 27, 2012, 07:00 AM
I gave my 4s to my wife and switched to the Galaxy SIII. This is literally the best phone I have ever used. Apple better get this ***** straight and come out with some big screen phones or they in trouble.

iRumored
Jun 27, 2012, 08:45 AM
The older I get, the more I realize just how much everything is about money. I have 3 close friends that all work at Verizon.. One of which is a manager. This is not a "he said she said" post either..

Verizon hates the iPhone because of the way that Apple has a lockdown on their products.

Motorola gives Verizon a bulk quantity deal on their phones and Apple doesn't. Motorola lets Verizon tag up their phones with the VZW logo and Apple doesn't. In addition to all that, Verizon, especially in my area has lost money because of the iPhone. It's a 3G phone when Verizon is trying push 4G and because of the huge amount of iPhone users, they are being forced to put up more and more 3G towers. They especially hate this because they will be rendered useless once 4G is everywhere so that's just money in the drain for them.

The manager that I know actually told me that, during a meeting they held, he was personally ridiculed for having the iPhone 4S as his personal phone and the reason being, Verizon has been losing money on the deal. He even went as far as to say the iPhone was the reason that you have to wait at least 20 months to be eligible for an upgrade because they pay out the nose for iPhones.

Do you want to know why they push the MAXX so much? This is why.

Do you want to know why the iPhone isn't on display in the stores anymore?

Money.

Hastings101
Jun 27, 2012, 09:42 AM
Oh darn, Apple might actually have to put some thought into the next iPhone now.

PeterQVenkman
Jun 27, 2012, 10:57 AM
Something tells me that 2x the 4g data at the normal price on Verizon will end as soon as the iPhone goes 4g.

That was a way to get people buy android phones and use 4g which costs Verizon 1/4 as much to deliver as old data technologies.


"The news comes by way of a research note from William Blair's Anil Doradla."

Anil Doradla... ...is an anagram for All Android... something's fishy...


Man, I LOVE that you saw that. Weird, creepy, and funny. ;)

JBaker122586
Jun 27, 2012, 11:11 AM
No... you did not say that.

I'll quote you again...

That statement is incorrect.

Do you know what "about" means? It doesn't mean it is the SINGLE ONLY place. It means there are a few other places, but this is the main place.

On the contrary, a large percentage of iPhone owners buy their iPhones at the Apple Store. 29% of Verizon iPhone customers or something according to the front page post yesterday. Again, you seem to be avoiding the point I'm clearly making to try and call me out on semantics.

NoStopN
Jun 27, 2012, 02:09 PM
This isn't suprising. Had a relative go to a Verizon store to get an iPhone (not guided by me) and they actively turned her around into an android phone (which she eventually disliked for being glitchy, not sure if that was installed junk on it or what).

I still believe Android's biggest problem is not it's base software, but it's implementation by the device builders & cell phone providers.

However, I think everyone knew Apple wouldn't jump on 4G right away. Look at all the battery issues the first 4G Android phones had. However, fast forward to today, and we are sorely in need of a 4G iPhone. And I think it's safe to assume that if the iPad 3 has it, the iPhone 5 will probably have it too.

Those educated customers read articles about 4G not being on the 4S & decided to buy or not. I experienced the teething pains of an HTC Thunderbolt. Once I became accustomed to the OS, I was not dying to get another iPhone. However, HTC & Verizon's overlays (I strongly believe) ruined every software update for the phone. This is the overpowering reason that I wanted back to an iPhone. As someone linked an article earlier, Apple wants most new technologies to be thoroughly studied & engineered for their purpose. Apple may be slow to implement, but when they do, they have a better track record of successful deployment.

As a member of Verizon Management, I can tell you that this isn't because of Device quality, this is because one of our most forced KPI's in stores is LTE.

As a manager, I have to contantly be on my sales reps about selling LTE devices over anything, despite any actual qulification for an iPhone. Fact of the matter is, Verizon is pushing LTE harder than anything and this is evidence of it.

It's so bad on a store level, that it's to the point where I have to fire reps if they aren't selling LTE devices over the iPhone.

So as much as these articles may make you think, the real matter is that on a store level, Reps are strong armed into selling LTE over anything or their job could be on the line.

I know someone who works for VZW, and these kinds of stories are being told more often. As said earlier, 4G was new to mobile devices last year, so it had some growing pains (emphasis on pains). When the iPhone 4G, I mean 5, comes out, it will still have the same level of satisfied users as most other iPhone models. Maybe the employees can rest a little easier when that iPhone releases later this year?

billystlyes
Jun 27, 2012, 02:21 PM
Let's be honest... The iPhone has become kinda boring over the two years. It's a nice phone, but boring. Most people that I know are flocking to phones with a 4.5" or greater screen size. They also like OS customization and widgets. I also think there's a movement towards individuality. Who wants a phone that every soccer mom has? Sorry, but not me. JMHO

Handsome Bacon
Jun 27, 2012, 08:19 PM
Well in my own case, I can tell you last year I stopped into my local Verizon store I don't know how many times trying to buy an iPhone 4S and it was ALWAYS out of stock in the store.

Yes I know I could have ordered one but I am more or less an impulse buyer...and this just annoyed the crap out of me. When the time came where I had to buy a phone, I went with the Nexus....because it was in stock Very satisfied.

iRumored
Jun 27, 2012, 08:58 PM
I'm so tired of the Droid vs. Apple debate. Just get what you like. Personally, I have played with all my friends other phones and the newest droid (the MAXX) doesn't have diddly squat on the iPhone. It has way more hardware to make it run faster (so you'd think) but it's not even close to as snappy and smooth as the iOS device. The layout isn't as clean as the iOS device either. Everything is crisp and clean on the iPhone and I love it that way. Screen size is the very last thing I care about. Battery life and a good clean UI is what it's all about IMHO.

You have sales reps practically bending the customers arms to sell the droids and go away from the Apple product.. How pathetic.

Since Verizon only seems to care about their interests -- all I'm going to care about is mine. I'm not going to buy a plastic and sluggish droid so I can help a rep hit quota. Oh yea and I never buy overpriced accessories either. Isn't the quota 3.5 accessories per contract renewal now?

ericrwalker
Jun 27, 2012, 09:44 PM
Enjoy your iPhone

I know I am.

You might hate greed, but greed is what motivated Apple to make the iPhone, it's also what's going to motivate them to keep improving the iPhone. Maybe a little slower than some would like, but hopefully they don't make too many mistakes that way.

Chase R
Jun 27, 2012, 10:38 PM
Top-left corner. :)

If you buy the new iPad you can enjoy seeing "Verizon LTE" in the top-left corner. Currently, my iPhone 4S says "AT&T 4G" which is a nice improvement, but I am looking forward to "AT&T LTE". I buy Verizon iPads and AT&T iPhones to hedge my bets on coverage while traveling. Plus, I get a better corporate discount at AT&T and I have grand-fathered unlimited data. But with LTE hotspot on the new iPad, I can't imagine buying an AT&T iPad.

I think I might be dyslexic :-/

iRumored
Jun 28, 2012, 02:50 PM
4G kills battery life unless you have a pillow sized phone to compensate the massive battery like the MAXX. I live in a half agriculture/half city area and even I have no problem staying connected to Wi Fi. The only time I'm not is when I'm driving and good, I don't like to mess with my phone while driving.

If I wanted an iPad, i'd have an iPad. I am not a small guy by any means, but the iPhone is simple to use. The size of the screen has never once been an issue. You can sit there and count pixels on the MAXX screen and it's made of plastic and feels cheap in your hands.

Insurance on the iPhone is stupid. Apple OEM backs are $30 with the tool. The front is $99. The batty is $30-40. What is the deductible again? $175 I believe? No thanks. $10/month + $175 deductible is a scam. You can replace front/back/battery for less yourself. Or, just buy a semi-decent case and your done.

No free music OTA via the device but, never has stopped me from syncing my playlist from the computer.

Lastly, there are PLENTY of free turn by turn apps out there so I don't know what you're talking about.. iOS 6 has showed the new Maps app to have it built in, too.

One last thing, cel phones become outdated in a few months time in today's day and age. Look at the droid history.. It's terrible.. The MAXX came out a few months after the original Razr. They're on #4 of the droid incredible too aren't they?

NewAnger
Jun 28, 2012, 03:19 PM
The older I get, the more I realize just how much everything is about money. I have 3 close friends that all work at Verizon.. One of which is a manager. This is not a "he said she said" post either..

Verizon hates the iPhone because of the way that Apple has a lockdown on their products.

Motorola gives Verizon a bulk quantity deal on their phones and Apple doesn't. Motorola lets Verizon tag up their phones with the VZW logo and Apple doesn't. In addition to all that, Verizon, especially in my area has lost money because of the iPhone. It's a 3G phone when Verizon is trying push 4G and because of the huge amount of iPhone users, they are being forced to put up more and more 3G towers. They especially hate this because they will be rendered useless once 4G is everywhere so that's just money in the drain for them.

The manager that I know actually told me that, during a meeting they held, he was personally ridiculed for having the iPhone 4S as his personal phone and the reason being, Verizon has been losing money on the deal. He even went as far as to say the iPhone was the reason that you have to wait at least 20 months to be eligible for an upgrade because they pay out the nose for iPhones.

Do you want to know why they push the MAXX so much? This is why.

Do you want to know why the iPhone isn't on display in the stores anymore?

Money.

If I didn't have such poor Verizon service on my 4S, I would make sure I went down to the Verizon store to buy the next iPhone just to spite them. My service is so poor here at home that I had to keep my service with AT&T to insure that I can make calls at home when I need to.

My AT&T account has been contract free since May and I will be using the upgrade for the new iPhone. My contract with Verizon will cancel either when the contract is over or if I can get out of it due to poor service.

peteypab2133
Jun 28, 2012, 03:57 PM
One last thing, cel phones become outdated in a few months time in today's day and age. Look at the droid history.. It's terrible.. The MAXX came out a few months after the original Razr. They're on #4 of the droid incredible too aren't they?

There are 110,000,000 people on verizon. I think there are like 75 million with smart phones.

Now take this for what its worth...

Apple makes a great phone, but there is no variety. Verizon from a strategic selling position has to offer an ample amount of phones to make customers happy. Right now Verizon has a basic target to release a new phone every three weeks. Since apple does not offer more than one device, the others have to pick up more slack.

Now I will be the first to admit that the droids seem to come and go much faster. I hate the fact that I bought a Bionic and within 4 weeks a Razr was launched. But the Razr Maxx to the Razr is like the BMW 3 series to the BMW M3. They are the same car, but with more "options". Even though the Maxx has better battery life than the regular Razr, those who feel slighted from the later release may not have bought it anyways.


Battery life is subjective. If I can get certian functions out of my phone, I am willing to carry a car charger with me. Or while I am sitting at work just plug it in. Besides, everyone I know (apple,android,BB) charge their phones every night anyways.

HTC is known for bad battery life unfortunately, and the thunderbolt killed HTC's rep for VZW.

iRumored
Jul 2, 2012, 08:21 AM
There are 110,000,000 people on verizon. I think there are like 75 million with smart phones.

Now take this for what its worth...

Apple makes a great phone, but there is no variety. Verizon from a strategic selling position has to offer an ample amount of phones to make customers happy. Right now Verizon has a basic target to release a new phone every three weeks. Since apple does not offer more than one device, the others have to pick up more slack.

Now I will be the first to admit that the droids seem to come and go much faster. I hate the fact that I bought a Bionic and within 4 weeks a Razr was launched. But the Razr Maxx to the Razr is like the BMW 3 series to the BMW M3. They are the same car, but with more "options". Even though the Maxx has better battery life than the regular Razr, those who feel slighted from the later release may not have bought it anyways.


Battery life is subjective. If I can get certian functions out of my phone, I am willing to carry a car charger with me. Or while I am sitting at work just plug it in. Besides, everyone I know (apple,android,BB) charge their phones every night anyways.

HTC is known for bad battery life unfortunately, and the thunderbolt killed HTC's rep for VZW.

I qualify "good" battery life as a phone that can be taken off the charger in the AM and will last until you go to bed. I know there's a lot of room for variables in battery performance with the settings and usage and what not, but.. Normal settings and normal usage it should be able to do this no problem. 2 of my friends got the thunderbolt the day it came out and wow.. What a hunk of garbage. They had to buy those huge extended life batteries and it still doesn't last as long as my 4S. Not even close really.

I'm quite impressed with my battery life. I'm on my phone alllll the time and I've never ran out of battery life.

My mother on the other hands owns a regular iPhone 4 with the latest update and she doesn't live on her phone like I do and she can go 4-5 days without charging it. She loves it.

Fatboy71
Jul 2, 2012, 04:44 PM
We'll see what happens in October!

Just what I was thinking.

NoStopN
Jul 9, 2012, 10:09 PM
A) I'm so tired of the Droid vs. Apple debate. Just get what you like.
B) You have sales reps practically bending the customers arms to sell the droids and go away from the Apple product.

A) Then Apple should hire me for product planning. :D I want my next iPhone to have a 4.3" screen, 4G LTE (not the fake 4G that AT&T tries to bluff unknowing customers with), & have NFC as well as the equipment for mobile OTA TV broadcasts. At least a 4" screen & 4G LTE seem locked in right now. Those are noticeable improvements. I can be happy with that.
B) From a customer service call-in agents point of view, I bet they get fewer calls about crappy iPhones than they do about crappy Android phones.

4G kills battery life unless you have a pillow sized phone to compensate the massive battery like the MAXX.

This is one area where I understand Apple's thinking for being "late with new technology". They have been testing LTE for at least a year (whenever VZW launched LTE), so they've had all this time to make sure that the 4G drain doesn't destroy the iPhone experience. The 3rd gen iPad didn't lose very much in overall battery charge time.

A) Apple makes a great phone, but there is no variety. Verizon from a strategic selling position has to offer an ample amount of phones to make customers happy. Right now Verizon has a basic target to release a new phone every three weeks. Since apple does not offer more than one device, the others have to pick up more slack.

B) HTC is known for bad battery life unfortunately, and the thunderbolt killed HTC's rep for VZW.

A) The lack of variety works for Apple in some cases. Apple has not been shy about trying to make their products appear as a better quality device. This means that if someone wants a phone to just make calls & texts, they won't look @ Apple or any Droid. But, when Apple released the first iPhone, they shook the entire cell phone market to the core. So, people who wanted a phone that could do more, only had one option. Blackberry's at the time were more for the die-hard business types.

From another angle, fewer models of iPhone leads to less confusion on software updates. You know what will be available for what phone, & when it will be available to you. With Verizon/Android, you don't know when an update will come out, you don't know if your phone will be offered an upgrade to the next "dessert" version, and there is no option to update via a website (OTA only). While Apple may have worked backwards with software update (iTunes only first, also OTA now), it is still another option.

B) I had seen prior tests of HTC phones before I got a Thunderbolt & most had good ratings for battery life. Perhaps it wasn't a good starter phone for someone getting their first Android device. For as long as I had that phone, I was plagued by very low battery life (helped a little with the larger battery) & plenty of software bugs. I called no fewer than 8 times in 7 months about faulty mobile hotspot functionality. Each new update made it worse. And it's not like VZW can just push out an update for a new hotspot app. No, they have to wait for HTC to send a full update for other stuff as well. I wasted money paying for a feature of a phone & Verizon had only 2 options: keep it & deal with it or drop it. No, "I'm sorry sir, that's out of our hands." No offer to give me any billing cycles discount for that crap, nothing. If HTC couldn't get it right, & Verizon wasn't going to get in HTC's face about the problem, I won't buy any more Droids. I'll stick with what worked before & what has worked since.

class77
Jul 10, 2012, 08:02 AM
Why would you have to go to the Verizon store and deal with their salespeople to buy an iPhone?? Can't you just walk into your nearest Apple store and buy a Verizon iPhone from them??

iRumored
Jul 10, 2012, 08:42 AM
A) Then Apple should hire me for product planning. :D I want my next iPhone to have a 4.3" screen, 4G LTE (not the fake 4G that AT&T tries to bluff unknowing customers with), & have NFC as well as the equipment for mobile OTA TV broadcasts. At least a 4" screen & 4G LTE seem locked in right now. Those are noticeable improvements. I can be happy with that.
B) From a customer service call-in agents point of view, I bet they get fewer calls about crappy iPhones than they do about crappy Android phones.


I mean no offense here, but you must understand that what one person wants, another person isn't going to want. Me being one who doesn't care about a 4.3" screen, nor do I care about 4G.. Until they address battery life issues, especially with the 4G, I could care less.

I too don't care for the android phones. The iPhone 4 is still what other manufacturers aim to beat and it came out in June of 2010. Please show me a droid that holds literally ANY weight at all from mid 2010. You won't find it.

The Samsung Galaxy S came out the same year and month that the iPhone 4 did and since they just recently released the Galaxy S3 and it STILL aimed at trying to be better than the iPhone.

Everyone hyped up the Droid X2, the HTC Thunderbolt, the Galaxy series (all 35 variations of them... :rolleyes:), the Razr, the MAXX, the Nexus, the Rezound.. Whatever. These phones have a TON more kit than the iPhone and it still isn't as snappy. It's all about the operating system. Also, I unplugged my iPhone 4S this morning at 7:00AM and have been on the carrier network checking Twitter/Facebook/News Sites/Posting this response and am at 91% battery life and it is now 9:35AM where I live. I'm so content with this phone that I could care less if it takes Apple a whole year to come out with the new one. No, this is not a fanboy remark either. I've used all big 3 smart phones in my time (BlackBerry/Droid/Apple) and without a doubt, the iPhone destroys them.. At least IMO.

Verizon hates the iPhone because they aren't making as much money off of them as they thought they would and they're mad that Apple didn't allow them to tag up the iPhone with their stupid logos or tell them when the 4S was going to be released.

NoStopN
Jul 17, 2012, 04:30 PM
I mean no offense here, but you must understand that what one person wants, another person isn't going to want. Me being one who doesn't care about a 4.3" screen, nor do I care about 4G.. Until they address battery life issues, especially with the 4G, I could care less.

Verizon hates the iPhone because they aren't making as much money off of them as they thought they would and they're mad that Apple didn't allow them to tag up the iPhone with their stupid logos or tell them when the 4S was going to be released.

I agree that the OS is just as important as the hardware of the phone. This explains my story of displeasure with an Android. But, I will admit I would like a bigger screen & LTE. I've applauded Apple for delaying the use of LTE in their iDevices & I remember reading several articles about Apple waiting for certain chips to help the iPhone/iPad be as fast as any LTE Google device, but keep the iDevices' great battery life. Apple has a great track record of making new technology work, even if they were not the first to introduce that technology.

linkgx1
Jul 17, 2012, 07:17 PM
All I hear are excuses. If the title said ''iPhone still Verizon's bestselling phone'' you guys would be praising it.

The reason why Verizon is pushing LTE is plain and simple....MONEY. Who are you guys to say that Verizon shouldn't do that with THEIR business? They are trying to create the next big thing ahead of their compeitiors. I find it ironic how people were saying there's no point of LTE when the Thunderbolt came out but flocked to the new iPad with LTE.

Ironically, Verizon is why droid is the way it. They pushed a really big campaign. Verizon doesn't want to be stuck with Apple's draconian policies. They want to cater to as large of an audience as possible. And instill their own draconian policies.....

One of the reasons why VZW is pushing people away from iPhones (if they truly are) is so they will not be stuck with their pants down if something happens to Apple in the next few years. They were fine with out Apple before and will continue to do so. The great thing about Android is that they can come out with THEIR own branded phones and sell it cheaply.


Many people can't afford iPhones or want to pay that much for a phone. For a lot Android phones are an excellent alternative. You still can get a decent phone for $50 or less (w/contract).


I see why Apple is suing these cell companies. They only release yearly and might get drowned out if these companies, like Samsung continue to 1up them.

I'm afraid the iPhone is going to get to the point of a diminishing return of zero. On my Samsung Vibrant, for example, the app selection sucked. Fast foward to when I got the 4s. Still great. But I noticed my friends have a lot of apps now that are starting to compete or are the same .I was showing off Temple Run for the longest making my friend jealous and all.....until he got it on his evo!:eek:


However, if Apple continues to make solid products, then I don't really see them falling out.

----------

I mean no offense here, but you must understand that what one person wants, another person isn't going to want. Me being one who doesn't care about a 4.3" screen, nor do I care about 4G.. Until they address battery life issues, especially with the 4G, I could care less.

I too don't care for the android phones. The iPhone 4 is still what other manufacturers aim to beat and it came out in June of 2010. Please show me a droid that holds literally ANY weight at all from mid 2010. You won't find it.

The Samsung Galaxy S came out the same year and month that the iPhone 4 did and since they just recently released the Galaxy S3 and it STILL aimed at trying to be better than the iPhone.

Everyone hyped up the Droid X2, the HTC Thunderbolt, the Galaxy series (all 35 variations of them... :rolleyes:), the Razr, the MAXX, the Nexus, the Rezound.. Whatever. These phones have a TON more kit than the iPhone and it still isn't as snappy. It's all about the operating system. Also, I unplugged my iPhone 4S this morning at 7:00AM and have been on the carrier network checking Twitter/Facebook/News Sites/Posting this response and am at 91% battery life and it is now 9:35AM where I live. I'm so content with this phone that I could care less if it takes Apple a whole year to come out with the new one. No, this is not a fanboy remark either. I've used all big 3 smart phones in my time (BlackBerry/Droid/Apple) and without a doubt, the iPhone destroys them.. At least IMO.

Verizon hates the iPhone because they aren't making as much money off of them as they thought they would and they're mad that Apple didn't allow them to tag up the iPhone with their stupid logos or tell them when the 4S was going to be released.
This entire post is extremely ironic

frankgn
Jul 18, 2012, 01:31 AM
Apple really need to speed up, the last two iphone look like the same.
I think the iphone 5 is out, it will kick some android ass