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MacRumors
Jun 26, 2012, 09:52 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/26/apple-wins-preliminary-injunction-against-samsung-galaxy-tab-sales-in-u-s/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/08/galaxy_tab_10_1-150x153.jpg

(http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/08/galaxy_tab_10_1.jpg)Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/27/us-samsung-galaxy-ruling-idUSBRE85Q02B20120627) and AllThingsD (http://allthingsd.com/20120626/apple-wins-injunction-against-samsung-galaxy-tab/) report that U.S. District Judge Lucy Koh granted a preliminary injunction against the sales of the Samsung Galaxy Tab in the U.S.

The ruling is the latest in the ongoing legal battle (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/04/18/apple-targets-samsung-with-new-lawsuit-over-galaxy-line/) between Apple and Samsung. Apple had accused Samsung of copying the design of Apple's iPad and iPhone products. Apple has previously sought and won (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/09/german-injunction-against-sale-of-galaxy-tab-10-1-upheld/) injunctions against the sale of the same Samsung tablet in other countries.

As reported by AllThingsD (http://allthingsd.com/20120626/apple-wins-injunction-against-samsung-galaxy-tab/), the new ruling stated:"Although Samsung has a right to compete, it does not have a right to compete unfairly, by flooding the market with infringing products," Koh wrote in her order, adding that the strength of Apple's case on the merits left her no choice but to grant the injunction. "While Samsung will certainly suffer lost sales from the issuance of an injunction, the hardship to Apple of having to directly compete with Samsung's infringing products outweighs Samsung's harm in light of the previous findings by the Court."Samsung is likely to appeal the preliminary injunction but the order could go into effect once Apple posts a $2.6 million bond to cover any damages to Samsung if the injunction does not hold up in appeal.

AllThingsD (http://allthingsd.com/20120626/apple-wins-injunction-against-samsung-galaxy-tab/) received a statement from Apple that reiterated their previous claims that Samsung had copied the iPad:"It's no coincidence that Samsung's latest products look a lot like the iPhone and iPad, from the shape of the hardware to the user interface and even the packaging. This kind of blatant copying is wrong and, as we've said many times before, we need to protect Apple's intellectual property when companies steal our ideas."

Article Link: Apple Wins Preliminary Injunction Against Samsung Galaxy Tab Sales in U.S. (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/26/apple-wins-preliminary-injunction-against-samsung-galaxy-tab-sales-in-u-s/)



nuckinfutz
Jun 26, 2012, 09:54 PM
This pounding of Samsung is becoming comical.

Apple simply isn't going to tolerate thieving of their
ideas.

kcamfork
Jun 26, 2012, 09:55 PM
Apple, love your products, but just let them exist.

Icaras
Jun 26, 2012, 09:55 PM
Glad to see progress being made. Good work, Apple.

AidenShaw
Jun 26, 2012, 09:56 PM
This pounding of Samsung is becoming comical.

Apple simply isn't going to tolerate thieving of their
ideas.

Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.

gorskiegangsta
Jun 26, 2012, 09:56 PM
Hopefully this will deter Samsung (and, by extension, other companies) from copying others' designs to actually innovating on their own designs.

Icaras
Jun 26, 2012, 09:57 PM
Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.

More like excersizing their legal rights.

Andronicus
Jun 26, 2012, 09:57 PM
Judge: Samsung, you have to stop shipping the Galaxy 10.1
Samsung: We stopped shipping those 6 months ago.

gorskiegangsta
Jun 26, 2012, 09:58 PM
Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.

Yeah, how dare they protect their own IP and uniqueness of their brand.:rolleyes:

AJH1993
Jun 26, 2012, 09:58 PM
"...we need to protect Apple's intellectual property when companies steal our ideas."

Good one, Apple. I'll keep quiet about valid arguments of cases where YOU guys have stolen ideas from other companies.
(Which, everyone steals from everyone so I guess it doesn't matter anyway)

Rogifan
Jun 26, 2012, 09:59 PM
Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.
As if Samsung is totally innocent.

AP_piano295
Jun 26, 2012, 09:59 PM
Hopefully this will deter Samsung (and, by extension, other companies) from copying others' designs to actually innovating on their own designs.

Indeed there must be millions of way to design a tablet :rolleyes:.

Peace
Jun 26, 2012, 09:59 PM
Good for Apple..

Andronicus
Jun 26, 2012, 09:59 PM
Overpriced, out dated, honeycomb tablet.

and not a single was given that day.

Small White Car
Jun 26, 2012, 10:02 PM
Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.

Which is why Apple is suing every tablet and Android phone over this particular issue...oh...wait...it's just Samsung? Nobody else?

Well, if Apple is just being a jerk and this works so well, why do you think they're limiting themselves to just one company? Surely you have an answer to that question, right?

eric/
Jun 26, 2012, 10:04 PM
I strongly dislike patents and copyrights, especially when being used at this.

Though I do like the legacy that Steve Jobs has left; the legacy of going after somebody with such tenacity.

boomboom2
Jun 26, 2012, 10:05 PM
When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?

nunes013
Jun 26, 2012, 10:06 PM
sick of hearing about all the legal battles. some of samsungs stuff does look like a complete ripoff but Apple does stretch things too far with other things. i just hope Apple is putting the money i throw at them into a lot of R&D

AppleScruff1
Jun 26, 2012, 10:06 PM
Once the Surface comes to market, Apple will really have something to worry about. They'll have real competition and nothing to sue over. Now that will be comical.

DonMega
Jun 26, 2012, 10:06 PM
Indeed there must be millions of way to design a tablet :rolleyes:.

Not millions, but, enough that if you could figure it out, you wouldn't be working in McDonald's.

mrbrown
Jun 26, 2012, 10:06 PM
When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?

When somebody patents that mechanism as their own and Apple is found infringing upon that patent.

gorskiegangsta
Jun 26, 2012, 10:07 PM
Indeed there must be millions of way to design a tablet :rolleyes:.

As many as the number of brain cells one is willing to allocate to design something.

nuckinfutz
Jun 26, 2012, 10:08 PM
Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.

AidenShaw ...you are correct. Apple is being a huge jerk to a large supplier no less. I really think this is setting a message. Apple is in effect saying

"we don't care if you provide many of our components ..our designs are our designs and we pay Jony Ive a lot of money to come up with ideas that we're not going to let you take with impunity"

The tone is being set and I'm sure other vendors are taking notice and will tread a bit more lightly around Apple.

TMar
Jun 26, 2012, 10:09 PM
So if Apple start making TV's are the big name players going to sue them because they make a TV shaped TV? Does Ford sue GM because they make car shaped cars. All my shoes are shoe shaped maybe there is a lawsuit somewhere there too, humm...

Small White Car
Jun 26, 2012, 10:09 PM
When somebody patents that mechanism as their own and Apple is found infringing upon that patent.

Twitter owns that one.

As of now they claim that they won't sue anyone over it. But of course, that's just a promise.

blackcrayon
Jun 26, 2012, 10:13 PM
I strongly dislike patents and copyrights, especially when being used at this.

Though I do like the legacy that Steve Jobs has left; the legacy of going after somebody with such tenacity.

But you don't see Samsung as "going after" Apple's trade dress I presume...

Kaibelf
Jun 26, 2012, 10:14 PM
Indeed there must be millions of way to design a tablet :rolleyes:.

Microsoft seemed to be able to do it and not have even the packaging INSIDE THE BOX look EXACTLY like Apple's

blackcrayon
Jun 26, 2012, 10:16 PM
So if Apple start making TV's are the big name players going to sue them because they make a TV shaped TV? Does Ford sue GM because they make car shaped cars. All my shoes are shoe shaped maybe there is a lawsuit somewhere there too, humm...

Yes, reduce everything to the most basic straw-man to make a point... :rolleyes:

If Apple starts making TVs obviously intended to look as much like Samsung's as possible from the store packaging to the interface to the design of the set, they'd deserve to get sued too. I'm guessing they won't though.

AP_piano295
Jun 26, 2012, 10:19 PM
Microsoft seemed to be able to do it and not have even the packaging INSIDE THE BOX look EXACTLY like Apple's

Microsoft made a tablet before Apple did I guess that means Microsoft should sue apple?

Peace
Jun 26, 2012, 10:21 PM
Microsoft made a tablet before Apple did I guess that means Microsoft should sue apple?

Using that analogy Arthur C. Clark's estate should sue Microsoft.

Lancer
Jun 26, 2012, 10:26 PM
Once the Surface comes to market, Apple will really have something to worry about. They'll have real competition and nothing to sue over. Now that will be comical.

I'm not sure, we still have no detailed specs, no price and no release date.

Will it be a hit like the xBox or a flop like the Zune?

thekev
Jun 26, 2012, 10:27 PM
So if Apple start making TV's are the big name players going to sue them because they make a TV shaped TV? Does Ford sue GM because they make car shaped cars. All my shoes are shoe shaped maybe there is a lawsuit somewhere there too, humm...

Design patents are quite complex. These articles are not. They're designed as light reading, and they provide very little valid information. They're more of a PR tool, and a way for the site to generate revenue.

Hopefully this will deter Samsung (and, by extension, other companies) from copying others' designs to actually innovating on their own designs.

Apple does this too, but they have PR on their side. Anyway Apple still sued on the Galaxy S3. I'm not sure what it was about, but it's likely that they're going to add any flagship device from Samsung to their requested injunction list. Delaying such products regardless of patent merit is essentially a win for Apple.

blackcrayon
Jun 26, 2012, 10:27 PM
Microsoft made a tablet before Apple did I guess that means Microsoft should sue apple?

I don't think Microsoft "made" any tablets before the (unreleased Surface). Do you mean they made a version of their OS that various PC makers used to put on tablet PCs? But anyway, what does that have to do with this article? Did the judge rule that "Apple made a tablet before Samsung?"

Why make a really inaccurate comparison? That doesn't make any point at all. Perhaps if you referred to some Apple products and another company's products and compared them in the same way the judge compared Samsung's to Apples.

nuckinfutz
Jun 26, 2012, 10:29 PM
The iPad is not a tablet. It's an iPad.

rjohnstone
Jun 26, 2012, 10:30 PM
So they won an injunction against a product that has already been replaced.
(slow clap) :rolleyes:

D 5
Jun 26, 2012, 10:30 PM
When you are Samsung and run out of ideas, you start to copy Apple.
When you start to copy apple, you get sued by Apple.
When you get sued by Apple, your Apple copies get band to enter the country.
When your Apple copies get band to enter the country, you need to vanish,
When you need to vanish, you fake your own death.
When you fake your own death, you dye your eyebrows,
and when you dye your eyebrows, you attend your own funneral as a company named Phil Shifley.
Dont attend your own funneral as a company named Phil Shifley, get rid of Apple copying slaker employees and upgrade to good hardworking emploeyes that can think different.:D

Renzatic
Jun 26, 2012, 10:32 PM
The iPad is not a tablet. It's an iPad.

...and what's an iPad?

"Hehe. A tablet".

b166er
Jun 26, 2012, 10:36 PM
I definitely have mixed feelings about this. Samsung does have every right to produce a tablet. And a tablet, by nature, can only look so unique. Same goes for smart phones these days- most of them have all the same basic design ideas.

I think that the real factor is the OS, which in this case is drastically different enough to demonstrate that Samsung was trying to go their own way.

This would be like Compaq claiming Packard Bell ripped off their design for the 486 machines back in the day. A box. With a couple slots. They all looked the same back then, just as all the tablets look more or less the same today. Glass, with a button, and a touch interface. Given, Apple did pioneer the initial success of the tablet, but Samsung is not the only one making a product that plays off the design of the iPad.

nuckinfutz
Jun 26, 2012, 10:36 PM
...and what's an iPad?

"Hehe. A tablet".

You couldn't prove that in a Court of Law. :p

faroZ06
Jun 26, 2012, 10:42 PM
Why do people say "I'm going to Xerox this paper"? Next time I want to make a copy, I'm going to "Samsung" it.

----------

You're on an Apple site. Most people are on Apple's side on this legal matter. Go figure! :eek:

Go to any FanDroid site and you'll see the same stuff.

Now back under your bridge. A fanboy might get by!

:rolleyes:

I think this is the highest concentration of AAPL investors because knowing this kind of news (not this article specifically) is important.

There aren't as many fanboys as people seem to think. In this case, though, Samsung did copy Apple's design.

Renzatic
Jun 26, 2012, 10:43 PM
You couldn't prove that in a Court of Law. :p

Sure I could. I could point to a tablet PC, then point to an iPad. Just because they don't call it that officially doesn't mean that isn't what it is. Like I could make a wheel, call it a Skrolnikian Flanger Rotatrix device, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still...what?

Not a horse.

faroZ06
Jun 26, 2012, 10:44 PM
Indeed there must be millions of way to design a tablet :rolleyes:.

There are. Remember tablets before the iPad? Now think of tablets after the iPad.

Stella
Jun 26, 2012, 10:46 PM
Unfortunately the consumer suffers... the lawyers win.

Renzatic
Jun 26, 2012, 10:49 PM
There are. Remember tablets before the iPad?

Yup. They were screens in a thin (for the time) chassis with various amounts of buttons on the bezel.

Now think of tablets after the iPad.

They're screens in a thin chassis with usually one button on the bezel.

i.mac
Jun 26, 2012, 10:49 PM
"...we need to protect Apple's intellectual property when companies steal our ideas."

Good one, Apple. I'll keep quiet about valid arguments of cases where YOU guys have stolen ideas from other companies.
(Which, everyone steals from everyone so I guess it doesn't matter anyway)

...and toddlers pretend to hide when the cover their eyes...

KPOM
Jun 26, 2012, 10:49 PM
Maybe the two parties will be willing to bargain this time around. Samsung has a win on the 3G patents, and Apple has a win on the design patents.

genovelle
Jun 26, 2012, 10:49 PM
Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.

I wonder how you would feel if one of your office mate at work kept taking your work and turning it in as their own to get your bonus check. Even better if your neighbor just helps himself to your new 50 inch TV because it will benefit him better. I'm sure you would say nothing about this and just keep being a busy little bee. Apple allowed Microsoft to take advantage of them with the original Mac and it has taken them almost 20 year to recover. I'm so glad they are being jerks to thieves.

nuckinfutz
Jun 26, 2012, 10:49 PM
Sure I could. I could point to a tablet PC, then point to an iPad. Just because they don't call it that officially doesn't mean that isn't what it is. Like I could make a wheel, call it a Skrolnikian Flanger Rotatrix device, but that doesn't change the fact that it's still...what?

Not a horse.

As the Defense I would have you define tablet and then polk holes into it. For instance I'd get you to admit that the Microsoft tablets of a few years ago had Stylus and were often attached to keyboard and ran the same desktop OS. Neither of which are required by the iPad.

Suddenly your definition of "Tablet" isn't quite so clear. We'd spend days arguing over minutia

:D

seamer
Jun 26, 2012, 10:50 PM
I see a supplier 'borrowing' inspiration from a client's ideas/tooling and spinning out a competing product.

If you can call anything based on Android as 'competing', that is.

----------

As the Defense I would have you define tablet and then polk holes into it. For instance I'd get you to admit that the Microsoft tablets of a few years ago had Stylus and were often attached to keyboard and ran the same desktop OS. Neither of which are required by the iPad.

Suddenly your definition of "Tablet" isn't quite so clear. We'd spend days arguing over minutia

:D

Did I miss an earlier post where Apple's Newton was mentioned?

nuckinfutz
Jun 26, 2012, 10:51 PM
I see a supplier 'borrowing' inspiration from a client's ideas/tooling and spinning out a competing product.

If you can call anything based on Android as 'competing', that is.

----------



Did I miss an earlier post where Apple's Newton was mentioned?

The Newton was a PDA :D

haruhiko
Jun 26, 2012, 10:52 PM
Apple is evil! Apple bullies other manufacturers! Long live the copycats! /s;)

AppleScruff1
Jun 26, 2012, 10:52 PM
I'm not sure, we still have no detailed specs, no price and no release date.

Will it be a hit like the xBox or a flop like the Zune?

Time will tell. I can see Windows 8 knocking Android off the playing field as far as tablets are concerned if it is adopted by Samsung and the other OEM's currently selling Android tablets. The average consumer is much more familiar with Windows than Android, IMHO.

Laird Knox
Jun 26, 2012, 10:55 PM
Once the Surface comes to market, Apple will really have something to worry about. They'll have real competition and nothing to sue over. Now that will be comical.

Unfortunately I have lost faith that Microsoft can pull it off. They are already heading down the wrong path with two tablets running on different architectures. Win 8 has a chance to be something good but this will only muddy the waters.

Then there is the issue of cost. The pro version will likely be much more expensive than the iPad and Android tablets. While it will offer a lot of power the price will be directly compared with a $499 iPad and even less expensive Android tablets. It isn't really a valid comparison but that has never stopped the consumer.

Renzatic
Jun 26, 2012, 10:56 PM
Suddenly your definition of "Tablet" isn't quite so clear. We'd spend days arguing over minutia

:D

I present to the court: Exhibit A...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/030113.ancient.stone_.tablet.jpg

...now imagine there's a screen on it, and the words can change. Same basic idea. I REST MY CASE!

edit: I got downvoted because it probably says something really bad in ancient Sumerian. Personally, I don't have any problems with those Ubaidians. It's just a funny joke. Hell, my best friend is a Ubaidian.

BUT COMEON! IT EVEN HAS A BEZEL!

nuckinfutz
Jun 26, 2012, 10:57 PM
Time will tell. I can see Windows 8 knocking Android off the playing field as far as tablets are concerned if it is adopted by Samsung and the other OEM's currently selling Android tablets. The average consumer is much more familiar with Windows than Android, IMHO.

BINGO!

Windows 8 IMO signals the death knell for Android tablets and perhaps phones.

Microsoft and Apple won't sue each other over anything significant. The two companies are like old neighbors that don't hate each other but can tolerate being at the same party every now and then. They both know their areas of profit. Apple isn't going to attack Microsofts cash cow in Office Suites and Server and Apple isn't going to let Microsoft have its way with mobile device though each will eek out a nice split.

I contend that the combination of a desktop OS and mobile platform is superior and Google doesn't have that being a web-centric company.

5 years from now it'll be MSFT and AAPL with GOOG a distant third and RIM gone.

gorskiegangsta
Jun 26, 2012, 10:57 PM
So if Apple start making TV's are the big name players going to sue them because they make a TV shaped TV? Does Ford sue GM because they make car shaped cars. All my shoes are shoe shaped maybe there is a lawsuit somewhere there too, humm...

I'm sure Porsche would not hesitate to sue any competitor who tries to copy the 911 design, Ford would not hesitate to sue any competitor who copies the Shelby/Mustang design, Chevrolet would not hesitate to sue any competitor who copies the Camaro & Corvette designs, Volkswagen would not hesitate to sue any competitor who copies the Golf & Beetle designs, etc..

genovelle
Jun 26, 2012, 10:58 PM
I strongly dislike patents and copyrights, especially when being used at this.

Though I do like the legacy that Steve Jobs has left; the legacy of going after somebody with such tenacity.
That is the purpose of copy rights. I like Apple products and buy them because of the effort they put into designing them. Microsoft nearly killed Apple years ago, not because they had a better product, not because they had a better business model, but because Apple's legal team and the management at the time dropped the ball and they were allowed to copy Apple's OS and use it against them. Thank God they learned their lesson. If you are going to steal from them, get ready for a fight.

jontech
Jun 26, 2012, 10:59 PM
Something we don't talk about is the culture in Korea

after having lived and worked there I was surprised how rampant copying of goods is in the country

They had open shops for pirated DVD's, games, clothing etc.

This is a cultural issue within Korea which has permeated to their largest business.

phpmaven
Jun 26, 2012, 10:59 PM
Indeed there must be millions of way to design a tablet :rolleyes:.

It has nothing to do with the shape, Sherlock.

Renzatic
Jun 26, 2012, 11:01 PM
That is the purpose of copy rights. I like Apple products and buy them because of the effort they put into designing them. Microsoft nearly killed Apple years ago, not because they had a better product, not because they had a better business model, but because Apple's legal team and the management at the time dropped the ball and they were allowed to copy Apple's OS and use it against them. Thank God they learned their lesson. If you are going to steal from them, get ready for a fight.

Yeah, that 3 or so year lawsuit they had going on over look and feel didn't really happen. And they didn't lose because they weren't the originators of the GUI, either.

AppleScruff1
Jun 26, 2012, 11:03 PM
Unfortunately I have lost faith that Microsoft can pull it off. They are already heading down the wrong path with two tablets running on different architectures. Win 8 has a chance to be something good but this will only muddy the waters.

Then there is the issue of cost. The pro version will likely be much more expensive than the iPad and Android tablets. While it will offer a lot of power the price will be directly compared with a $499 iPad and even less expensive Android tablets. It isn't really a valid comparison but that has never stopped the consumer.

The ARM tablet will be the competitor to the iPad and Android tablets while the Pro will be the first in attempting to build a new market. Personally I can see the Pro becoming the way of the future, combing the best of both worlds, a touch interface and a full desktop. As time goes on it may eek out a new segment and laptop sales will drop as this new combo unit becomes more powerful. I think it is a real possibility.

nuckinfutz
Jun 26, 2012, 11:03 PM
Something we don't talk about is the culture in Korea

after having lived and worked there I was surprised how rampant copying of goods is in the country

They had open shops for pirated DVD's, games, clothing etc.

This is a cultural issue within Korea which has permeated to their largest business.

It's not PC to discuss loudly but Asian cultures are kind of known for this. I've talked to many Boeing engineers that have come back on trips from Asia and talked about the bunches of blatant knockoffs they saw of Apple products and more.

ixodes
Jun 26, 2012, 11:05 PM
I was concerned that Apple might go out of business due to poor sales and significant lack of demand.

Thankfully they've been saved by spending their last few thousand dollars on good lawyers.

With some luck they'll shut down Google & Microsoft. Then they can raise prices on Apple products. That ought to help them survive for a few more months.

Phew! That was close. I didn't think they'd get it done in time.

genovelle
Jun 26, 2012, 11:06 PM
So if Apple start making TV's are the big name players going to sue them because they make a TV shaped TV? Does Ford sue GM because they make car shaped cars. All my shoes are shoe shaped maybe there is a lawsuit somewhere there too, humm...

Car designs are patented and protected for certain periods. The car companies tend to respect each others designs. One reason is they don't want to promote something that confuses customers and send them to the competitor. As far as TVs go, Apple has monitors that have their own design. So, it can be done. You don't have to blatantly copy who ever is successful to make it. Get your own damn design.

AppleScruff1
Jun 26, 2012, 11:06 PM
BINGO!

Windows 8 IMO signals the death knell for Android tablets and perhaps phones.

Microsoft and Apple won't sue each other over anything significant. The two companies are like old neighbors that don't hate each other but can tolerate being at the same party every now and then. They both know their areas of profit. Apple isn't going to attack Microsofts cash cow in Office Suites and Server and Apple isn't going to let Microsoft have its way with mobile device though each will eek out a nice split.

I contend that the combination of a desktop OS and mobile platform is superior and Google doesn't have that being a web-centric company.

5 years from now it'll be MSFT and AAPL with GOOG a distant third and RIM gone.

I too can see this happening if Microsoft does it right. Google may well be the odd man out. A lot of people use Windows and I can see them flocking to these new products if they are done properly. Google is still trying to create brand recognition in the software field. Microsoft and Apple did it decades ago.

genovelle
Jun 26, 2012, 11:08 PM
I was concerned that Apple might go out of business due to poor sales and significant lack of demand.

Thankfully they've been saved by spending their last few thousand dollars on good lawyers.

With some luck they'll shut down Google & Microsoft. Then they can raise prices on Apple products. That ought to help them survive for a few more months.

Phew! That was close. I didn't think they'd get it done in time.

The key is to stop them from trying to shut Apple down by shutting them out of the markets they set afire with their own designs.

charlituna
Jun 26, 2012, 11:11 PM
Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.

you call Apple jerks for protecting their IP. but if it was Samsung that won over Apple you'd be praising them for standing up for themselves.

classy

----------

When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?

try again. That notification center tech was created by an indie developer and both Android and iOS merely license it.

faroZ06
Jun 26, 2012, 11:11 PM
Yup. They were screens in a thin (for the time) chassis with various amounts of buttons on the bezel.=

You left out the keyboards and the shape.

charlituna
Jun 26, 2012, 11:13 PM
Once the Surface comes to market, Apple will really have something to worry about. They'll have real competition and nothing to sue over. Now that will be comical.

Based on the little amount of info that Microsoft gave out and the shabby 'demos' I'd say that Apple has nothing to worry about. they will continue to hold a solid 60% if not higher of the market and the rest of the boys will be battling for the other 40. Microsoft might manage to come out on top with a good 15% but that's about it.

----------

Twitter owns that one.


Nope. Twitter owns 'pull to refresh' which is not the same thing as notification center

faroZ06
Jun 26, 2012, 11:14 PM
When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?

Android had that first, and they licensed it from someone.

AppleScruff1
Jun 26, 2012, 11:14 PM
Based on the little amount of info that Microsoft gave out and the shabby 'demos' I'd say that Apple has nothing to worry about. they will continue to hold a solid 60% if not higher of the market and the rest of the boys will be battling for the other 40. Microsoft might manage to come out on top with a good 15% but that's about it.

The Surface probably won't be the only tablet running Windows 8. Watch the other OEM's drop Android like a hot potato. People know Windows, not Android.

faroZ06
Jun 26, 2012, 11:15 PM
The Surface probably won't be the only tablet running Windows 8. Watch the other OEM's drop Android like a hot potato. People know Windows, not Android.

But do people know Windows 8?

I can really see this doing well as a gaming device, kinda like a portable XBOX 360.

charlituna
Jun 26, 2012, 11:15 PM
Microsoft made a tablet before Apple did I guess that means Microsoft should sue apple?

The estate of Gene Roddenberry or perhaps the props guy from 2001 should sue also since they created tablet computer devices way before Apple or Microsoft. Heck even Captain Picard's Personal Access Data Device might predate either company.

JAT
Jun 26, 2012, 11:15 PM
I too can see this happening if Microsoft does it right. Google may well be the odd man out. A lot of people use Office and I can see them flocking to these new products if they are done properly. Google is still trying to create brand recognition in the software field. Microsoft and Apple did it decades ago.

Correction to make your theory possible.

fretdevil
Jun 26, 2012, 11:16 PM
Once the Surface comes to market, Apple will really have something to worry about. They'll have real competition and nothing to sue over. Now that will be comical.

Microsoft has no real interest in the marketing of tablet devices, they are just trying to push "Windows Ate" my hard drive.

Surface has been around for years with little interest shown by, well anybody.
It will fair no better in the compact form.

Renzatic
Jun 26, 2012, 11:16 PM
You left out the keyboards and the shape.

Square? And while I'm not 100% sure, I don't believe every tablet released then was a convertible laptop.

BreadedVirus
Jun 26, 2012, 11:19 PM
Which is why Apple is suing every tablet and Android phone over this particular issue...oh...wait...it's just Samsung? Nobody else?

Well, if Apple is just being a jerk and this works so well, why do you think they're limiting themselves to just one company? Surely you have an answer to that question, right?

Think about it...think real hard!

Nova Sensei
Jun 26, 2012, 11:20 PM
It's sad to see people down-voting those who disagree with this decision. Removing competition harms consumers at the end of the day.

Exactly how different can a tablet be made to look?

charlituna
Jun 26, 2012, 11:23 PM
It's sad to see people down-voting those who disagree with this decision. Removing competition harms consumers at the end of the day.

Competition that based on copying someone else's product instead of actually innovating doesn't really help consumers to have a choice.

----------

i'm surprised that no one has commented on the damages bond Apple has to file. Those are ordered by the court when you are cutting off sales of a current product to cover damages from a reasonably expected amount of sales that should have happened without the injunction.

do the math, even at $99 a pop, the court doesn't think that Samsung would have sold more than 26k units. Apple does that in like a week. ouch.

BreadedVirus
Jun 26, 2012, 11:27 PM
I don't see any Galaxy Tab that looks or feels like an iPad...

Renzatic
Jun 26, 2012, 11:30 PM
Competition that based on copying someone else's product instead of actually innovating doesn't really help consumers to have a choice.

I just googled up a few pictures of the Tab 10.1. From the front, yeah, it does look like the iPad. But the iPad wasn't the first electronic device to have a screen surrounded by a black bezel with rounded corners. I could bring up 10,001 different products that came out before the iPad that were strikingly similar when looked at head on.

It's the profile of the iPad that's unique. The thin design, the tapered edges, the silver aluminum body. Nothing has quite looked like it before...

...or since. From the side, the only thing the Galaxy Tab shares in common with the iPad is the silver color along the edges. But it doesn't share the tapered edges, and the back looks COMPLETELY different.

And of course there's the internal hardware, where the iPad and Tab share nothing in common besides using an ARM processor and a battery.

Quite simply, I don't see it as straight up copying. Inspired? Eh. Yeah. More than a little bit. But not to the point that you could consider it blatant theft.

dokujaryu
Jun 26, 2012, 11:39 PM
I just can't make myself feel bad for either company when this happens anymore. What I want is for each company to choose a champion to fight this out in an epic StarCra.... err... I mean... Madden football video game.

ixodes
Jun 26, 2012, 11:39 PM
The key is to stop them from trying to shut Apple down by shutting them out of the markets they set afire with their own designs.
Setting aside my sense of humor & sarcasm, here's my true thoughts.

If we take ten paces back, & look at the big picture, Apple is not only wildly successful financially, but also in nearly all other metrics.

They are the darling of Hollywood, well respected within the tech sector (even if despised by some) and on a roll like never before.

The momentum alone, is enough to make grown men (fellow tech CEO's) cry when behind closed doors.

Oh sure I'm all for them defending against IP Theft, yet that's not as clear cut as the Apple purists would have us believe. If it were I would be the first to criticize Samsung.

Long story short, one look at the majority of my posts & you'll see I'm not afraid to be outspoken. I stand strong with Apple when they are right, when discussing their stellar products on the computing side, and when helping or advising others.

Yet when they push the limits with questionable business practices, I don't hesitate to criticize them for that. Before I post, I make a conscious decision to be as fair as possible. After all... I have tens of thousands of dollars invested in Apple computers & gear. Thus my point is I make every effort to look at both sides.

In this instance, I believe Apple has gone overboard & done more harm than good. Respectfully, those that do not have a deep understanding of big business, only understand a small fraction of what's involved.

One choice that Apple could select, would be to call off the dogs, continue to innovate & compete in the marketplace, and prevail using their expertise & power to produce world class products.

That's how they've achieved their present success & there's no reason to change now.

Stealing ideas & copying designs is as old as the hills. Apple looks pathetic, taking this approach.

Laird Knox
Jun 26, 2012, 11:40 PM
The ARM tablet will be the competitor to the iPad and Android tablets while the Pro will be the first in attempting to build a new market. Personally I can see the Pro becoming the way of the future, combing the best of both worlds, a touch interface and a full desktop. As time goes on it may eek out a new segment and laptop sales will drop as this new combo unit becomes more powerful. I think it is a real possibility.

I agree but you have two problems.

Price: People will look at the Pro tablet and even though it is a fully functional computer they will still compare it to the lesser equipped tablets only because of the form factor.

Segmentation: People will be confused when a piece of Win 8 tablet software will run on one tablet and not the other.

Microsoft can pull it off but I don't see that happening. If they focused on a single tablet OS they would be in a much better position. Android has burned a lot of people and MS runs the risk of that animosity spilling over. While I don't believe MS would leave people out to dry like the Android updates I'm bet it will be a battle they have to fight.

Xtremehkr
Jun 26, 2012, 11:46 PM
So if Apple start making TV's are the big name players going to sue them because they make a TV shaped TV? Does Ford sue GM because they make car shaped cars. All my shoes are shoe shaped maybe there is a lawsuit somewhere there too, humm...

To fawn air, if you started selling trucks and called them the F150 Denali then both Ford and GM would sue you.

If you decided to sell shoes that had an Air system or called them Jordans then Nike would be all over you with law suits.

I don't think the nature of these lawsuits are that simple. Samsung has a history of releasing products that borrow too much from Apple products they're competing with.

Renzatic
Jun 26, 2012, 11:49 PM
Segmentation: People will be confused when a piece of Win 8 tablet software will run on one tablet and not the other.

Won't be as bad as you think for two reasons. 1. Just about every Metro app on x86 will likely be compiled for ARM as well. 2. The Pro model won't be as widely distributed as the RT. You can grab the RT at Best Buy or Sears. The Pro? Only online or at MS stores.

Price: People will look at the Pro tablet and even though it is a fully functional computer they will still compare it to the lesser equipped tablets only because of the form factor.

Because of point 2 above, this won't be too big of a deal, either. If Average Joe is shopping for his next tablet online, he'll see the cheaper RT tablet compared against the more expensive Pro. It's no different than the $499 16GB wifi only iPad vs. the $829 64GB 4G LTE iPad.

un10101
Jun 26, 2012, 11:50 PM
Apple, love your products, but just let them exist.

They'll let them exist, just not with their form factor.

Laird Knox
Jun 26, 2012, 11:53 PM
Won't be as bad as you think for two reasons. 1. Just about every Metro app on x86 will likely be compiled for ARM as well. 2. The Pro model won't be as widely distributed as the RT. You can grab the RT at Best Buy or Sears. The Pro? Only online or at MS stores.



Because of point 2 above, this won't be too big of a deal, either. If Average Joe is shopping for his next tablet online, he'll see the cheaper RT tablet compared against the more expensive Pro. It's no different than the $499 16GB wifi only iPad vs. the $829 64GB 4G LTE iPad.

It is entirely possible, I just don't think Microsoft has it in them.

writingdevil
Jun 26, 2012, 11:55 PM
I just googled up a few pictures of the Tab 10.1. From the front, yeah, it does look like the iPad. But the iPad wasn't the first electronic device to have a screen surrounded by a black bezel with rounded corners. I could bring up 10,001 different products that came out before the iPad that were strikingly similar when looked at head on.

It's the profile of the iPad that's unique. The thin design, the tapered edges, the silver aluminum body. Nothing has quite looked like it before...

...or since. From the side, the only thing the Galaxy Tab shares in common with the iPad is the silver color along the edges. But it doesn't share the tapered edges, and the back looks COMPLETELY different.

And of course there's the internal hardware, where the iPad and Tab share nothing in common besides using an ARM processor and a battery.

Quite simply, I don't see it as straight up copying. Inspired? Eh. Yeah. More than a little bit. But not to the point that you could consider it blatant theft.

If people are not familiar with legal statutes on trade dress, then Apple suing makes no sense. Trade dress includes many different elements, not one.

Saying" how different could "tablets" look?", may say more about the creativity level of the speaker than about design. Few of us are Jonny Ive.

How many ways could a paper clip be designed? At least 50 styles were patented before the main one used today was.

If, of course, one is looking to use "fanbois" as butt of a joke or is always on the lookout for a fault in Apple's approach or in users respect for and practical usage of a product, then logic doesn't really matter, it's more about the critic using the comment for their personal agenda platform. Understanding the motive (and time spent) in being the "critical judge of what Apple is doing and how silly/over the top/kool aid drinking "fanbois" reactions are, has always escaped me. But, if it floats one's boat, then it's their mission.....somehow.

rdlink
Jun 26, 2012, 11:56 PM
I definitely have mixed feelings about this. Samsung does have every right to produce a tablet. And a tablet, by nature, can only look so unique. Same goes for smart phones these days- most of them have all the same basic design ideas.

I think that the real factor is the OS, which in this case is drastically different enough to demonstrate that Samsung was trying to go their own way.

This would be like Compaq claiming Packard Bell ripped off their design for the 486 machines back in the day. A box. With a couple slots. They all looked the same back then, just as all the tablets look more or less the same today. Glass, with a button, and a touch interface. Given, Apple did pioneer the initial success of the tablet, but Samsung is not the only one making a product that plays off the design of the iPad.


Not a totally absurd analogy. However, in the days of the real Compaq and Packard Bell, the beige box that the parts came in was not part of what was being sold. With the iPad and the pretenders, the form and finish of the product is as much a part of the product as what it does.

Here's a better analogy: When I was a kid I wanted a basketball to play at the court in the neighborhood park. While shopping in the local discount store I saw a Wilson Official basketball, one of the most respected names in sporting goods at a price much discounted from what I knew they generally sold for. So I asked my mother to buy it for me, and she did. I was so excited when I got home and pulled it out of the box. But it felt rubbery, spongy and light. Not like the high quality ones we used in gym at school. I took it outside, somewhat apprehensively, and started to bounce it on the ground. Something didn't seem right. But what could be wrong? It said Wilson. I looked again. It was only then that I realized that I didn't have a Wilson basketball, but a Winston basketball. The logo, and all of the other markings were made to look exactly like those of a Wilson. I mean exactly, down to the cursive of the script in the name.

The makers of the Winston basketball were trying to leverage the success and reputation of the Wilson brand by copying it with substandard components, design and construction, and confuse those who were looking for the real thing. THIS is what Apple is accusing Samsung of doing.

AppleScruff1
Jun 26, 2012, 11:58 PM
Correction to make your theory possible.

I'll bet there are more Windows users than Office users. Don't tell me your worried too?

ethana
Jun 27, 2012, 12:01 AM
Everyone needs to take their emotions or their fanboyism out of this... iSheep and Fandroids both.

The fact is Samsung has been copying Apple. It's blatantly obvious. Many judges now from around the world, who don't particularly care about technology in one way or the other, agree. Just look and you can see for yourself.

Apple won because Samsung copies Apple's products. It's obvious. Samsung needs to change their strategy (and I feel they currently are beginning to get the picture).

E

nickn
Jun 27, 2012, 12:03 AM
When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?
Android had that years before iOS, so you have it backwards.

dsass600
Jun 27, 2012, 12:05 AM
Latest products = original galaxy from 2010 and galaxy tab from 2011.
Similar packaging = a white box (i bought a galaxy tab so dont tell me i dont know what it looks like)
similar products = black, thin, slate with homebutton (samsung had a product with a square homebutton in 2006 aka before the iphone, and you cant patent thin black slates)

Apple needs to stop bitching and thinking they are the greatest thing to ever happen to mankind.

The amount of stuff they borrowed from Android in ios 5 and 6 is disgusting, so if you think that android still copied ios, i think the copying playing field is even now.

Renzatic
Jun 27, 2012, 12:07 AM
It is entirely possible, I just don't think Microsoft has it in them.

They're putting the entire strength of the company behind it. The tablet space is a burgeoning market they need to be a part of if they want to still be in the consumer tech game 10 years from now.


Snip

Your argument only makes sense if the Galaxy Tab was so similar to the iPad that it's nigh indistinguishable at first glance. To use your story against you, it's like Wilson suing Winston not because it made an inferior product that aped off their name, but because they're both selling a round basketball. Round being the key word here.

The iPad and Galaxy Tab are very similar in style, I'll give you that. But no one will confuse one for the other.

Jb07
Jun 27, 2012, 12:10 AM
Everyone needs to take their emotions or their fanboyism out of this... iSheep and Fandroids both.

The fact is Samsung has been copying Apple. It's blatantly obvious. Many judges now from around the world, who don't particularly care about technology in one way or the other, agree. Just look and you can see for yourself.

Apple won because Samsung copies Apple's products. It's obvious. Samsung needs to change their strategy (and I feel they currently are beginning to get the picture).

E

^This. Samsung came too close to the iPad design with the GTab, but I think the lawsuits are making them rethink their design decisions, as evident in the design of the GS3.

JAT
Jun 27, 2012, 12:15 AM
I'll bet there are more Windows users than Office users. Don't tell me your worried too?
Worried about what? For the record, my house contains 1 iPad2 and 1 Galaxy Tab 2.

My point is that users don't give a damn about Windows. Do you have any idea how many people say they are using "Windows 2007", meaning Office? Users care about what they do, not what IT freaks play with.

pacalis
Jun 27, 2012, 12:16 AM
If people are not familiar with legal statutes on trade dress, then Apple suing makes no sense. Trade dress includes many different elements, not one.

Yes, but no one is confusing an iPad with a Samsung.

And it's not like someone comes in looking and asks to look at what kind of iPads the have in stock, referring to Android tablets.

And finally, design patents tend to be quite narrow, so I'm pretty sure nothing will happen here on appeal.

Good news is that Samsung is a big player and Apple isn't trolling little guys.

tech4all
Jun 27, 2012, 12:23 AM
you call Apple jerks for protecting their IP. but if it was Samsung that won over Apple you'd be praising them for standing up for themselves.

classy

Nailed it right on the head! :D

dra
Jun 27, 2012, 12:27 AM
news made my day. now my stocks can grow more :)

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 12:41 AM
try again. That notification center tech was created by an indie developer and both Android and iOS merely license it.

Can you say which indie developer developed it before Android 1.9? Thanks

e-coli
Jun 27, 2012, 12:42 AM
Once the Surface comes to market, Apple will really have something to worry about. They'll have real competition and nothing to sue over. Now that will be comical.

Oh, Surface? Yeah that thing looks AMAZING! Nobody can compete with that screen size. :rolleyes:

http://unclutteredwhitespaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Microsoft-Surface-pic.jpg

Give me a break. Those clowns at Microsoft can't get anything right outside of XBox.

Renzatic
Jun 27, 2012, 12:52 AM
Oh, Surface? Yeah that thing looks AMAZING! Nobody can compete with that screen size. :rolleyes:

Holy crap! Look at that black bezel and rounded corners! It looks like a giant iPad!

...that came out circa 2007ish.

rdlink
Jun 27, 2012, 12:55 AM
Your argument only makes sense if the Galaxy Tab was so similar to the iPad that it's nigh indistinguishable at first glance. To use your story against you, it's like Wilson suing Winston not because it made an inferior product that aped off their name, but because they're both selling a round basketball. Round being the key word here.

The iPad and Galaxy Tab are very similar in style, I'll give you that. But no one will confuse one for the other.

You're wrong. You might not confuse a Galaxy for an iPad, but plenty of other people have.

AP_piano295
Jun 27, 2012, 12:56 AM
It has nothing to do with the shape, Sherlock.

That's exactly what it has to do with :rolleyes: :

"The copying is so pervasive, that the Samsung Galaxy products appear to be actual Apple products -- with the same rectangular shape with rounded corners, silver edging, a flat surface face with substantial top and bottom black borders, gently curving edges on the back, and a display of colorful square icons with rounded corners," the complaint said"

Source : http://www.infoworld.com/d/the-industry-standard/apple-sues-samsung-says-it-copied-ipad-301

DanteMann
Jun 27, 2012, 12:57 AM
Wow, Apple's really losing touch. Always a step behind. The Galaxy Tab 10.1 has already been replaced. LOOOOL!!! :D
Samsung must be laughing they're butts off at this. More free advertising. Apple are looking pretty darn desperate at this stage, and the fankiddies are just as blind at what has just happened. The real WIN for Apple would have been if they were successful in stopping the GS3. But Apple got REJECTED HARD on that attempt. Go get 'em Sammy and keep 'em guessing. :D

Renzatic
Jun 27, 2012, 01:04 AM
You're wrong. You might not confuse a Galaxy for an iPad, but plenty of other people have.

Name one.

AppleScruff1
Jun 27, 2012, 01:11 AM
Worried about what? For the record, my house contains 1 iPad2 and 1 Galaxy Tab 2.

My point is that users don't give a damn about Windows. Do you have any idea how many people say they are using "Windows 2007", meaning Office? Users care about what they do, not what IT freaks play with.

The average Joe only knows Windows. Just like Apple targets the average Joe. Only Windows has a lot more average Joe's. And it does the job just fine.

iEvolution
Jun 27, 2012, 01:13 AM
You're wrong. You might not confuse a Galaxy for an iPad, but plenty of other people have.

Then they dont know how to read I guess, pretty hard to be tricked into buying a box that says samsung galaxy right on the box with the iPad. I guess if you are purchasing a product based on the box color then you might mistake it for an iPad, but if you're doing that I cant imagine that the person(s) have the intelligence to use an iPad in the first place.

This whole thing is silly unless Apple thinks they own the right to use white boxes and rectangles I don't even see how they can even argue this. If the galaxy is copying the ipad then surely the dozens of other android based tablets are too so why dont they go sue them? Childish on the part of Apple in my opinion.

iindigo
Jun 27, 2012, 01:17 AM
I would like Samsung and other manufacturers to come up with unique designs NOT because they're copying Apple, but because if I want an iPad, I'll buy an iPad. I don't want a market full of what amounts to basically the same product with meaningless differences made by different manufacturers. I want to be able to look to other manufacturers and find a dizzying variety of distinctly different products.

When everyone is copying Apple, there might as well only be one option.

In the end, creativity gives consumers options while playing follow the leader takes them away.

AppleScruff1
Jun 27, 2012, 01:19 AM
I agree but you have two problems.

Price: People will look at the Pro tablet and even though it is a fully functional computer they will still compare it to the lesser equipped tablets only because of the form factor.

Segmentation: People will be confused when a piece of Win 8 tablet software will run on one tablet and not the other.

Microsoft can pull it off but I don't see that happening. If they focused on a single tablet OS they would be in a much better position. Android has burned a lot of people and MS runs the risk of that animosity spilling over. While I don't believe MS would leave people out to dry like the Android updates I'm bet it will be a battle they have to fight.

Apple is doing the same thing with iOS and OSX. And they are doing it quite successfully. It's all up to Microsoft to put it together so it works the way it's supposed to in consumers hands. None of us have any idea if they will or not. If they pay attention like they did with Windows 7, it will do well. If not, then it won't be a significant player. But also remember that it is highly unlikely that Microsoft will be the only company selling a Windows 8 tablet in either flavor. They're just giving it a jump start. The OEM's will follow suit.

thekev
Jun 27, 2012, 01:30 AM
^This. Samsung came too close to the iPad design with the GTab, but I think the lawsuits are making them rethink their design decisions, as evident in the design of the GS3.

Design patents are a complex issue, but note how Apple still tried to block the GS3 launch. It may have been a software thing, but they attempted to block its launch without ever having seen one.

utahman130
Jun 27, 2012, 01:35 AM
Really suprised about the verdict. You can tell the difference between a Samsung and an Apple right away. When Apple sued Google for Multi-Touch patents, they lost.

Sensation
Jun 27, 2012, 01:46 AM
This pounding of Samsung is becoming comical.

Apple simply isn't going to tolerate thieving of their
ideas.

What about Apple getting in trouble in Holland for stealing Samsungs networking methods? Damn thieving :apple:.

iindigo
Jun 27, 2012, 01:48 AM
Really suprised about the verdict. You can tell the difference between a Samsung and an Apple right away. When Apple sued Google for Multi-Touch patents, they lost.

You and I might be able to instantly tell the difference, but what about John Q. Public who thinks the blue E on his desktop is "the internet"? Or the soccer mom who can just barely use Facebook?

They are the primary market for tablets.

hot spare
Jun 27, 2012, 01:49 AM
When somebody patents that mechanism as their own and Apple is found infringing upon that patent.

A computer-implemented user notification method includes displaying, in a status area near a perimeter of a graphical interface, a notification of a recent alert event for a mobile device, receiving a user selection in the status area, and in response to the receipt of the user selection, displaying, in a central zone of the graphical interface, detail regarding a plurality of recent messaging events for the mobile device.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20090249247.PGNR.

http://www.google.com/patents/US20090249247

http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/02/17/in-depth-analysis-androids-notification-bar-patent-and-how-apple-may-or-may-not-infringe-it/

Google patent filed in 2009. Only reason Google didn't sue yet is because patent is not yet approved. Those guys at USPTO is still arguing for 3 years!! But the day it's approved, you can see a ****-storm approaching.

chr1s60
Jun 27, 2012, 01:50 AM
Once the Surface comes to market, Apple will really have something to worry about. They'll have real competition and nothing to sue over. Now that will be comical.

Your post is comical. The Surface won't touch iPad sales. Just as no android tablet will. It has nothing to do with being a better machine and everything to do with being years ahead of the competition by getting in the game first.

Exactly how different can a tablet be made to look?

How different can a t shirt or a tv look? Companies have done quite a bit to make them different from one another.

AppleScruff1
Jun 27, 2012, 02:08 AM
Your post is comical. The Surface won't touch iPad sales. Just as no android tablet will. It has nothing to do with being a better machine and everything to do with being years ahead of the competition by getting in the game first.




The surface is ahead of the iPad. And the Surface Pro has no competitors yet. Apple's share of the tablet market has nowhere to do but down. Maybe not a lot if Windows cannibalizes more Android sales. Android stands to lose the most. But the world runs on Windows, like it or not.

boilingpoint
Jun 27, 2012, 02:15 AM
Its not fair at all. Apple sucks. :mad:

iindigo
Jun 27, 2012, 02:23 AM
The surface is ahead of the iPad. And the Surface Pro has no competitors yet. Apple's share of the tablet market has nowhere to do but down. Maybe not a lot if Windows cannibalizes more Android sales. Android stands to lose the most. But the world runs on Windows, like it or not.

We can't really say if the surface is ahead or not until we see how the market responds to it. It really boils down to the question of, "Do people really want to do desktop things on a tablet device?"

I have a hunch that the answer is no, simply because desktop OS tablets have been tried before and I'm not sure a chimera OS can solve the problem. Either way, time will tell.

marksman
Jun 27, 2012, 02:31 AM
Apple, love your products, but just let them exist.

Says the guy who has never created, invented or made anything of value.

----------

Once the Surface comes to market, Apple will really have something to worry about. They'll have real competition and nothing to sue over. Now that will be comical.

Are the trolls here really holding out hope for the surface?

Compile 'em all
Jun 27, 2012, 02:38 AM
Tragi-comical - Apple are being jerks.

You are right man. They are hindering Samsung's innovation!

http://i.imgur.com/TmUj2.jpg

Renzatic
Jun 27, 2012, 02:42 AM
Someone post the Consumer Reports Apple customer satisfaction picture STAT! We need to keep this rolling!

marksman
Jun 27, 2012, 02:43 AM
It's sad to see people down-voting those who disagree with this decision. Removing competition harms consumers at the end of the day.

Exactly how different can a tablet be made to look?

Extremely different. Anyone who thinks other tablets don't look different should abstain from these conversations entirely.

Renzatic
Jun 27, 2012, 02:44 AM
A tablet could be shaped like two ovals welded together at the center. Not all tablets have to be squares.

Also...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/tab.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3018396/ipad.jpg

...for those of you interested, I want you to tell me how these two devices are at all similar looking.

allmIne
Jun 27, 2012, 02:51 AM
Glad to see progress being made. Good work, Apple.

Yeah! Right on, brother!

I, like you, can't wait until there's only one iPad, and it's a bit ****. Oh, and $1500.

That'll be a good day.

----------

A tablet could be shaped like two ovals welded together at the center. Not all tablets have to be squares.


Well they can't, now. Or, by your own argument, the new tablet would be infringing on the 'two ovals welded together at the center' tablet, wouldn't it?

Renzatic
Jun 27, 2012, 02:55 AM
Well they can't, now. Or, by your own argument, the new tablet would be infringing on the 'two ovals welded together at the center' tablet, wouldn't it?

I'm trying to figure out if this is some kind of patent oriented zen koan or something. Gimme a sec to think about it, and I'll give you an answer.

edit: mu.

Winni
Jun 27, 2012, 03:03 AM
This pounding of Samsung is becoming comical.

Apple simply isn't going to tolerate thieving of their
ideas.

It's funny how different your American legal system works -- European courts did NOT rule in Apple's favor lately and they did NOT ban Galaxy Tab sales.

Personally, Apple's design claims are ridiculous ("rounded corners" - every traffic sign has them, as Jobs himself pointed out in the 1980s, enough said) and most of the patents that they use in their court cases are so trivial that they should not have received patents for those "inventions" in the first place. (A patent for locating a phone number in a text and hyperlinking it to the phone function of the device - now what's worthy of a patent here?)

----------

Says the guy who has never created, invented or made anything of value.

----------



Are the trolls here really holding out hope for the surface?

Seeing that the Surface tablet is a) a "real" tablet and b) also a "real" computer with c) a "real" operating system on it - and some castrated mobile OS with very restricted functionality like iOS and d) some actually innovative design ideas like keyboard integration in the cover and e) backed by the largest software company on the planet with the richest software ecosystem on the globe - then f) yes, Apple should be worried.

yusukeaoki
Jun 27, 2012, 03:06 AM
Apple comes up with originality.
Samsung doesn't.

dbyway
Jun 27, 2012, 03:17 AM
I can see how it would be stressful designing these things, because there are only so many ways you can make a tablet look, but Samsung seems to be really pushing the limit as-of-late.

menithings
Jun 27, 2012, 03:20 AM
Samsung needs to be vigorously and relentlessly sued until they stop their habitual copying. Competition is good, but trade dress and IP theft undermines innovation because it devalues a company's hard earned product identity, which for Apple is extremely valuable.

I find Samsung's copying so abundant and comical that I've devoted a Pinterest page to it. Check it out at:

http://pinterest.com/menithings/same-sung/

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 03:37 AM
You are right man. They are hindering Samsung's innovation!



Still using this debunked picture?

Ori
Jun 27, 2012, 03:47 AM
I too can see this happening if Microsoft does it right. Google may well be the odd man out. A lot of people use Windows and I can see them flocking to these new products if they are done properly. Google is still trying to create brand recognition in the software field. Microsoft and Apple did it decades ago.

This doesn't fill me with hope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8GUZDuac&feature=youtube_gdata_player

nick_elt
Jun 27, 2012, 03:51 AM
Microsoft seemed to be able to do it and not have even the packaging INSIDE THE BOX look EXACTLY like Apple's
As much as I dont like microsoft windows from past experiences. You have to give them credit that everything that they are doing is somewhat original which u cant say about samsung at all or most other manufacturers

thundersteele
Jun 27, 2012, 04:03 AM
Judge: Samsung, you have to stop shipping the Galaxy 10.1
Samsung: We stopped shipping those 6 months ago.

Just what I was thinking.

Copyright protection is important... but when it gets to a point that the progress of technology is stopped, maybe one should rethink the whole business.

Also some of the patents that these companies apply for are ridiculous. Slide to unlock? Mouse click? Right mouse click? And of course the tablet. It's flat and has a screen... what can you do. I've seen that design many times before the iPad arrived. Of course you can make a green bezel and the back out of wood to differentiate from Apple, but honestly, that's ridiculous.

Piggie
Jun 27, 2012, 04:09 AM
Samsung needs to be vigorously and relentlessly sued until they stop their habitual copying. Competition is good, but trade dress and IP theft undermines innovation because it devalues a company's hard earned product identity, which for Apple is extremely valuable.

I find Samsung's copying so abundant and comical that I've devoted a Pinterest page to it. Check it out at:

http://pinterest.com/menithings/same-sung/

Pray tell me, why only Samsung?

Should it not be made illegal in the courts to continually single out just one company to attempt sue again and again and again, whilst ignoring all other companies with similar/virtually identical products?

If Apple wishes to show it is honestly fighting the points it's bringing up and not unfairly targeting one simple company, then they should be forced to either drop their complains again Samsung or bring all makes/brands into the court and sue them all collectively

I cannot see how it is legal in the US to single out just a single company again and again whilst ignoring others who break the same points you are complaining about.

Renzatic
Jun 27, 2012, 04:42 AM
If Apple wishes to show it is honestly fighting the points it's bringing up and not unfairly targeting one simple company, then they should be forced to either drop their complains again Samsung or bring all makes/brands into the court and sue them all collectively

We did have the Apple vs. Motorola thing going on, but it ended up getting thrown out after the judge suffered a mental breakdown over the inane stupidity of it all.

Apparently both Apple's and Motorola's lawyers somehow neglected to provide proof of any damages. Yup.

...which makes me think. The whole tech industry has been kinda litigious over the last couple or three years. Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of Lawsuits. Apple suing Motorola, Samsung. MS extorting Android handset manufacturers. This guy suing that guy. It goes on and on and on. Question is...

...have any of them actually won any of their cases? Apple comes in suing everyone for violating 50,000 patents. Oracle sues Google over their use of Java. A lot of hooplah is made, the crowd comes out and posts stupid pictures of the Samsung kiosk, fingers are pointed, accusations are thrown about. But in the end, all Apple and the rest have ever managed to win out of these multimillion dollar lawsuits are consolation prizes. At best. There hasn't been a single stunning victory for any suing party since the smart phone law wars began.

It makes you think. Maybe there's some underlying strategy to all of this. Some angle these companies are playing that general public isn't seeing.

Or maybe they are just this dumb.

robeddie
Jun 27, 2012, 04:51 AM
This pounding of Samsung is becoming comical.

Apple simply isn't going to tolerate thieving of their
ideas.

The 'idea' of a rectangle screen with a black border around it. WOW, that's innovation. With all due respect, the reason apple's iPad is great is not the way it looks, but the way it works. I just don't get how the exterior design of the iPad is so 'amazing'. It's a rectangle. The screen is in front, and there's a black border around it. Am I missing something?

TMay
Jun 27, 2012, 05:04 AM
They're putting the entire strength of the company behind it. The tablet space is a burgeoning market they need to be a part of if they want to still be in the consumer tech game 10 years from now.




Your argument only makes sense if the Galaxy Tab was so similar to the iPad that it's nigh indistinguishable at first glance. To use your story against you, it's like Wilson suing Winston not because it made an inferior product that aped off their name, but because they're both selling a round basketball. Round being the key word here.

The iPad and Galaxy Tab are very similar in style, I'll give you that. But no one will confuse one for the other.

In U.S. District Court, an unfortunate Samsung Lawyer couldn't tell the difference between the iPad and the Samsung tablet held by the judge at 10 feet.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 05:10 AM
So Apple has finally proved it invented the rectangle?

Bring on the downvotes :P

TMay
Jun 27, 2012, 05:17 AM
The 'idea' of a rectangle screen with a black border around it. WOW, that's innovation. With all due respect, the reason apple's iPad is great is not the way it looks, but the way it works. I just don't get how the exterior design of the iPad is so 'amazing'. It's a rectangle. The screen is in front, and there's a black border around it. Am I missing something?

It is a minimalist design, by any definition prototypical on its entry into the market, and redefined what a tablet is, just as the iPhone redefined what a smartphone was with multitouch.

Samsung copied many elements of the iPad design, too many according to Apple. Hence, the preliminary injunction.

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 05:20 AM
Samsung copied many elements of the iPad design, too many according to Apple. Hence, the preliminary injunction.


No, the design patent is not about the iPad.

The funny thing is that the iPad is more different from the design patent than the Galaxy Tab

Lennholm
Jun 27, 2012, 05:23 AM
In U.S. District Court, an unfortunate Samsung Lawyer couldn't tell the difference between the iPad and the Samsung tablet held by the judge at 10 feet.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an iPad and that 2006 Samsung digital photo frame at that distance either.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 05:33 AM
You are right man. They are hindering Samsung's innovation!

Image (http://i.imgur.com/TmUj2.jpg)

Sorry sir but most of these arguments are bull-ish.

1. One unfortunate store (is this really a store or just a stall at a conference?) showed some Apple icons. I've never seen that in any Samsung store.
2. The USB adapter is not of Apple's design, it has been used before.
3. It's a white box with a picture of the device on it... How original... (e.g. Nokia did that waaaay earlier than Apple)
4. The 30-pin connector is not of Apple's original design! It's a proprietary connector based on a standard 30-pin design. And I think I don't have to tell you that Apple has not invented the USB...
5. The audio recording app also has a picture of a microphone. Blasphemy! That was such an original idea that has never been used before!*
*it has been used before

If I genuinely had too much time on my hands I could compile an even longer list like this of "things that Apple stole from Android, Google or other companies", but who cares! Just stop this nonsense already.

Lennholm
Jun 27, 2012, 05:38 AM
You are right man. They are hindering Samsung's innovation!

Image (http://i.imgur.com/TmUj2.jpg)

The first image is just stupid, it's not a Samsung store, it's a generic electronics store (that sells products from several different companies, including Apple) with a Samsung booth. The icons are on the back wall which is not part of the booth but the store itself which is, I say it again, not a Samsung store.
Since Apple and their evangelics always bitch about miniscule and irrelevant details I will too:
The charger has a completely different color, the corners of the Samsung charger are less rounded and it appears to have a small ridge on the top that the Apple charger lacks.
The box; there's clearly much more white space between the product image and the edge of the box on the Samsung box, that's such an important difference. When you open the box, the only way to make that different is to add padding which would increase the size of the box, and you can't demand that they do that when they don't need to.
The cable is the same as with the charger; different color it even has a ridge that works as a handle, which the Apple connector lacks. Most importantly, it's not even a Samsung design, it's a standardized connector.
The recording app is just a weak example, the only similarity they share are that they have an image of mic as background, which is kind of standard, and it's not even the same type of mic.

iBug2
Jun 27, 2012, 05:45 AM
The whole "there's only one way to design a tablet" is a straw man's argument. It's irrelevant.

For most patents out there, they are mostly about the best or the fastest way to do things. Yes you can still do those things without doing the same thing as in the patent but it'll mostly be the "worse" way.

So when people say "they couldn't have painted the bezel a different color because it'd distract the user", they are right. But it's irrelevant. If the color is patentable, then even if it's trivially obvious why the color has to be the way it is, it's still copyrighted.

I think it's ridiculous as well, but then again, where do we draw the line? If we don't allow things that are obviously the best choice for something to be patentable, then probably a lot of the previously granted patents in many areas will no longer be valid. I know so many patents that whenever you look at the question, the first answer that comes to mind is the one in the patent. It was patented because someone patented it, not because it was a really complicated thing to solve and only one person solved it. Patents aren't there to protect the ideas of geniuses only. If you have the financial means to actually patent something, then you can patent even the most trivial idea you can think of, unless it's already patented. Big agriculture has been patenting agriculture methods which have been in use for centuries by the town folk and then asking for money from them. University of California owns patents to many human genes and nobody invented genes yet if you somehow want to do research on that gene, you pay them a fee. That's how weird the patent system has become.

Puevlo
Jun 27, 2012, 05:50 AM
Goodbye innovation.

Rafterman
Jun 27, 2012, 05:56 AM
"...we need to protect Apple's intellectual property when companies steal our ideas."

Good one, Apple. I'll keep quiet about valid arguments of cases where YOU guys have stolen ideas from other companies.
(Which, everyone steals from everyone so I guess it doesn't matter anyway)

Yeah, as if the glass rectangle is Apple's idea.

Look, I'm a satisfied iPad and iPhone user, but this IP stuff is getting out of control. It seems that if a product contains even the same color as a competing product, companies start running to the courts. The patent system is in serious need of rehab.

Northgrove
Jun 27, 2012, 06:08 AM
I agree with Apple here. It's not because I like Apple, but especially Samsung has some sort of really annoying habit of copying Apple designs lately. I wouldn't expect or want Apple to go after the new Microsoft Surface, but FFS Samsung.

It's not about a rectangle using glass, it's about the curved edges, the metallic bezel, the similar width around the display, etc. And most importantly, it's about Samsung suddenly doing this right after the success of the iPad. How this behavior can be defended is beyond me.

Try something different, like Microsoft recently.

----------

Goodbye innovation.

For innovation, take a look at different small footprint designs where companies are actually innovating and how Apple aren't going after them.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 06:15 AM
Let's look at something that was released by HP.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/TC1100-1.JPG/800px-TC1100-1.JPG

OMG it looks soooo much like the iPad. A rectangular shape, rounded corners, enough metallic bezel to provide a comfortable grip, similar width around the display - everything that Apple has invented. And that HP logo where the home button normally sits? Blasphemy. Volume buttons on the side? iPad did that! Conveniently placed headphone socket? A Silver back? Thank god they didn't steal iPad's USB adapter. I feel you Northgrove:


I agree with Apple here. (...)

It's not about a rectangle using glass, it's about the curved edges, the metallic bezel, the similar width around the display, etc. (...)

Try something different, like Microsoft recently.

The only problem is, the device above, the TC1100, was released 7 years before the iPad.

Please, explain to me why Apple think they've invented a rectangle and rounded corners.

While you're at it, please explain to me why Apple fans genuinely think Apple is fighting to "protect innovation" instead of actually realising that Apple is simply a patent troll.

notabadname
Jun 27, 2012, 06:16 AM
This is great news IMO. A company's investment in innovation and ideas should not be easy fodder for theft. A Samsung win would be discouraging for investment in new ideas by any company, not just Apple, if precedent is established that the competition can easily capitalize on reverse engineering or cloning someone else's successful idea. There is no risk in that type of product development/release for the copycats.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 06:22 AM
This is great news IMO. A company's investment in innovation and ideas should not be easy fodder for theft. A Samsung win would be discouraging for investment in new ideas by any company, not just Apple, if precedent is established that the competition can easily capitalize on reverse engineering or cloning someone else's successful idea. There is no risk in that type of product development/release for the copycats.I think American companies are more worried that they might be in danger if they create something that is even remotely similar to what Apple has released.

MonkeySee....
Jun 27, 2012, 06:23 AM
Let's look at something that was released by HP.

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/TC1100-1.JPG/800px-TC1100-1.JPG)

OMG it looks soooo much like the iPad. A rectangular shape, rounded corners, enough metallic bezel to provide a comfortable grip, similar width around the display - everything that Apple has invented. And that HP logo where the home button normally sits? Blasphemy. Volume buttons on the side? iPad did that! Conveniently placed headphone socket? A Silver back? Thank god they didn't steal iPad's USB adapter. I feel you Northgrove:



The only problem is, the device above, the TC1100, was released 7 years before the iPad.

Please, explain to me why Apple think they've invented a rectangle and rounded corners.

While you're at it, please explain to me why Apple fans genuinely think Apple is fighting to "protect innovation" instead of actually realising that Apple is simply a patent troll.

That doesn't look like the iPad.

Not sure what point you are trying to prove.

Bubba Satori
Jun 27, 2012, 06:24 AM
When you can't compete, sue.
So, if their stuff isn't competitive and it sucks, why sue? :confused:

Take your time, I'll be here all week.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 06:27 AM
That doesn't look like the iPad.

Not sure what point you are trying to prove.

Yeah, of course it doesn't... :rolleyes:

It just has nearly every design claim that iPad presented during the trial.

MonkeySee....
Jun 27, 2012, 06:27 AM
When you can't compete, sue.
So, if their stuff isn't competitive and it sucks, why sue? :confused:

Take your time, I'll be here all week.

Why not?

If you see a cat on your lawn and it doesn't do a ****, doesn't mean you should keep letting on until it does do one.

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 06:29 AM
That doesn't look like the iPad.


It looks like the design patent

jamesrt2004
Jun 27, 2012, 06:32 AM
Let's look at something that was released by HP.

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/TC1100-1.JPG/800px-TC1100-1.JPG)

OMG it looks soooo much like the iPad. A rectangular shape, rounded corners, enough metallic bezel to provide a comfortable grip, similar width around the display - everything that Apple has invented. And that HP logo where the home button normally sits? Blasphemy. Volume buttons on the side? iPad did that! Conveniently placed headphone socket? A Silver back? Thank god they didn't steal iPad's USB adapter. I feel you Northgrove:



The only problem is, the device above, the TC1100, was released 7 years before the iPad.

Please, explain to me why Apple think they've invented a rectangle and rounded corners.

While you're at it, please explain to me why Apple fans genuinely think Apple is fighting to "protect innovation" instead of actually realising that Apple is simply a patent troll.

Completely true and unbiased.

If you look at even tablet PC's that where used in hospitals and military and such even way before that HP tablet, you can see the form factor has been used way way way longer.

Im not one for copyright etc (hell im a musician, if I have any songs that sound similar to another I change it, also if ones similar to mine i Let them know.. just incase!)

but really apple saying they designed the exterior ipad (which is their main gripe) is pretty lame..


Regardless of that, going after Samsung for the ANDROID OS being similar in aspects.. is pretty bloody stupid, and I'm sure Samsung will challenge that part relatively easy. The design's a toughie..

But I think action will be matched in EU + Australia for Samsung's favour though.

It's a silly 'war' at the end of the day. They should get on with it! Competition brings forth Innovation! So innovate and just plain stomp your opponents rather then bitch and moan that one company used the idea of their rival!


Sorry a big wall of text, just want to get my feelings across.. I know this is a pro apple board but surely people would prefer innovation rather than a stale market due to them just duking it out in courts instead!!!

(if you want stale look at the CPU market. AMD's bulldozer performed pretty poor compared to even sandybridge now intel's taking it's sweet ass time)

pittpanthersfan
Jun 27, 2012, 06:37 AM
Indeed there must be millions of way to design a tablet :rolleyes:.

And an interface. And packaging.

foodog
Jun 27, 2012, 06:53 AM
When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?

Apple isn't suing Android manufacturers they are suing Samsung over a particular device that runs Android. That is a major point being glossed over.

Bubba Satori
Jun 27, 2012, 06:53 AM
Why not?

If you see a cat on your lawn and it doesn't do a ****, doesn't mean you should keep letting on until it does do one.

I'm a live and let live kind of guy.

Analogies, btw, are like chocolates.
Some are better than others.
Keeping working on it. You'll get better, maybe. :D

In the end, you can't have it both ways
If everything except Apple sucks,
what's the point of suing their cra**y imitators?
Which is it?

thewap
Jun 27, 2012, 06:54 AM
Let's look at something that was released by HP.

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/TC1100-1.JPG/800px-TC1100-1.JPG)

OMG it looks soooo much like the iPad. A rectangular shape, rounded corners, enough metallic bezel to provide a comfortable grip, similar width around the display - everything that Apple has invented. And that HP logo where the home button normally sits? Blasphemy. Volume buttons on the side? iPad did that! Conveniently placed headphone socket? A Silver back? Thank god they didn't steal iPad's USB adapter. I feel you Northgrove:



The only problem is, the device above, the TC1100, was released 7 years before the iPad.

Please, explain to me why Apple think they've invented a rectangle and rounded corners.

While you're at it, please explain to me why Apple fans genuinely think Apple is fighting to "protect innovation" instead of actually realising that Apple is simply a patent troll.


Can't argue that patent wars are tiresome. However the difference between being influenced by a design and technology and blatant copying is in my opinion apparent with the Samsung product which I believe infringes on the product image and packaging as well. That was their mistake as is apparent in the picture comparison. No court will impede a manufacturer for being influenced by innovative tech, but when a company emulates so closely the shape, color tech, peripherals , packaging and even the photography and lighting in the packaging of a product, thats where the court drew the line with Samsung as it should. This is why the legalese argument could be made that the Samsung product could be mistaken as an Apple product at first glance. One does not see blatant copying by HP or other manufacturers to the extent of Samsung, so other arguments made of infringing Apple based only on tech influence is not usually enough in the court's mind to justify an injunction.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 06:55 AM
Which is why Apple is suing every tablet and Android phone over this particular issue...oh...wait...it's just Samsung? Nobody else?

Motorola, Samsung, HTC... Hum, yeah, it's pretty much everybody. :rolleyes:

MonkeySee....
Jun 27, 2012, 06:55 AM
I'm a live and let live kind of guy.

Analogies, btw, are like chocolates.
Some are better than others.
Keeping working on it. You'll get better, maybe. :D

In the end, you can't have it both ways
If everything except Apple sucks,
what's the point of suing their cra**y imitators?
Which is it?

Awww. I thought it was a good one :D

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 07:07 AM
Apple isn't suing Android manufacturers they are suing Samsung over a particular device that runs Android. That is a major point being glossed over.

Apple is suing every tablet manufacturer who uses Android. Samsung, Motorola, HTC... Go figure.

Small White Car
Jun 27, 2012, 07:10 AM
Motorola, Samsung, HTC... Hum, yeah, it's pretty much everybody. :rolleyes:

Help me out here...I'm willing to be proven wrong but I can't find any examples of those using Google.

Patent lawsuits, sure, but as we're talking about the 'look and feel' lawsuits those clearly don't count. I'm just on my iPhone so maybe my Googling isn't a good as it could be. If you have articles about these other companies facing this type of trial I'd love to see them because it's something I wasn't aware of.

iBug2
Jun 27, 2012, 07:10 AM
Let's look at something that was released by HP.

Image (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a8/TC1100-1.JPG/800px-TC1100-1.JPG)



That thing doesn't look at all like the iPad.

kdarling
Jun 27, 2012, 07:12 AM
Judge Koh had no choice, even though she originally ruled against it.

Back in December she had denied this same injunction concerning four Apple patents, most of which were related to phones. She specifically denied the tablet injunction on the grounds that the Apple design patent could likely be invalid due to prior art. E.g. the 1994 Knight-Ridder tablet concept (see around 2:20 in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBEtPQDQNcI)).

In May, an Appeals Court upheld three of her four decisions, but disagreed about her design patent reasoning. Among other things, they noted that the Knight-Ridder concept didn't have totally even borders (one was slightly larger). So they remanded the case back to her court and she had to issue the injunction.

However, the ban doesn't affect tablets already in stores, or the redesigned Tab 10.1ii model, so the fight is mostly symbolic at this point (thus the rather small cash amount that Apple has to put up as collateral).

.

Small White Car
Jun 27, 2012, 07:15 AM
However, the ban doesn't affect tablets already in stores, or the redesigned Tab 10.1ii model, so the fight is mostly symbolic at this point (thus the incredibly small cash amount that Apple has to put up as collateral).

A paragraph that should lead every article about this. But of course, that's not exciting enough.

It seems like the less something matters the more press it gets. And, of course, vise versa.

Artey
Jun 27, 2012, 07:16 AM
Good work Apple, bring those thieving bastards down.

Sensation
Jun 27, 2012, 07:26 AM
Good work Apple, bring those thieving bastards down.

What about Apple stealing Samsungs data methods?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18529756

This so called "Win" by Apple is useless, its bans an old product which they dont make any more?

Rocketman
Jun 27, 2012, 07:26 AM
Apple likes to form single purpose vehicle LLCs. They should form one to run ads bringing to the public's attention, the legal rulings and orders of infringement in the countries they legally can, to the degree the legal process has progressed to either rulings or orders.

A SPV would not be Apple itself, and would be free to discuss the shortcomings of the infringing products as compared to the products they are designed to resemble visually.

It would also be free to use dramatizations of prior infringing examples to show visual similarity almost always equates to low quality or in some cases physical harm.

It is cheaper and also more effective than litigation, but in this case is coincident with it. Lawsuits alone are unsatisfying. Let a SPV spike the ball.

It will seem downright polite in a time of political ad noise!

Rocketman

sirozha
Jun 27, 2012, 07:28 AM
Indeed there must be millions of way to design a tablet :rolleyes:.

It’s a good argument that a tablet can only look a certain way, and since Apple was the first one to the market with the iPad, all other tablets would invariably look similar to the iPad. However, how do you explain the fact that the user interface is so much similar to the iOS? And how do you explain that Samsung's packaging is made so that it looks almost identical to Apple’s? There are definitely many ways to design the user interface and the packaging. Android allows OEMs to put any user interface they want on top of the OS they get for free from Google. OEMs can go with a stock Android user interface, or they can design their own. Samsung decided to rip off iOS user interface. There are literally thousands of ways to design packaging. Apple’s packing is truly innovative, and the experience with the product that a new owner gets starts with unpacking the product. I remember unpacking my first MacBook Air in early 2008, and I remember the awe of seeing how well the product was packaged. I had never seen such precision and detail vis-a-vis packaging - something that just gets tossed away most of the time. Samsung replicated this because they market their products under the “just as good as Apple’s, but cheaper” mantra. They decided to copy everything, including the first experience that the owner gets from the packaging. This, in and of itself, serves as the proof that Samsung was stealing Apple’s intellectual property by blatantly copying Apple’s products.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 07:34 AM
That thing doesn't look at all like the iPad.

Ok, if that's the case let's sum up all the differences:

- the original iPad is black
- it has a button where the HP logo is placed
- ...?

kaizenmx
Jun 27, 2012, 07:36 AM
Rotten apple at works.

If you can't beat them, sue them.

e-coli
Jun 27, 2012, 07:37 AM
Holy crap! Look at that black bezel and rounded corners! It looks like a giant iPad!

...that came out circa 2007ish.

Not a good sign that they began by naming the NEW Surface after their end-table-with-a-wall-socket flop. Recycling a name on a product that's supposed to be your turn around? It would be identical to Apple naming the iPad as The Newton.

ChrisTX
Jun 27, 2012, 07:39 AM
"And boy have we patented it!" - Steve Jobs

Sammy must have thought he was kidding.

Sensation
Jun 27, 2012, 07:41 AM
"And boy have we patented it!" - Steve Jobs

Sammy must have thought he was kidding.

And then Apple go and steal Samsung technical data methods along with lots of different parts of Android. I bet Steve would love the egg on his face.

ChrisTX
Jun 27, 2012, 07:45 AM
And then Apple go and steal Samsung technical data methods along with lots of different parts of Android. I bet Steve would love the egg on his face.

People love to throw the pull down notifications menu into the mix. But name something else Apple has "stolen" from Android. We all know hind site is 20/20. Smartphones before, and after, just like tablets before and after iOS look dramatically different, and Apple isn't going to stand for blatant thievery.

Lennholm
Jun 27, 2012, 07:46 AM
"And boy have we patented it!" - Steve Jobs

Sammy must have thought he was kidding.

Well, he probably did, or was just being dishonest since Apple didn't have all the patents Jobs claimed.

--------------------

People love to throw the pull down notifications menu into the mix. But name something else Apple has "stolen" from Android. We all know hind site is 20/20. Smartphones before, and after, just like tablets before and after iOS look dramatically different, and Apple isn't going to stand for blatant thievery.

Personal hot spot.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 07:48 AM
Help me out here...I'm willing to be proven wrong but I can't find any examples of those using Google.

HTC (http://allthingsd.com/20111219/trade-body-says-htc-violating-apple-patents-bans-some-imports/)
Motorola (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-25/apple-motorola-mobility-patent-suit-ended-by-u-s-judge.html)

There you go chief.

Patent lawsuits, sure, but as we're talking about the 'look and feel' lawsuits those clearly don't count. I'm just on my iPhone so maybe my Googling isn't a good as it could be. If you have articles about these other companies facing this type of trial I'd love to see them because it's something I wasn't aware of.

Nope, we're talking a patent lawsuit here too, don't try to move thar goalposts on me ;). Read the reuters piece and the Apple complaint (http://www.apple.com/pr/pdf/110415samsungcomplaint.pdf). Judge Koh today granted the injunction based on this part of the complain :

Apple’s Design Patents
25. Apple also has protected its innovative designs through design patents issued by
the United States Patent and Trademark Office. The Apple design patents cover the many famous
ornamental features of Apple’s devices, such as the flat black face, metallic bezel, and the
distinctive matrix of application icons. Apple owns all right, title, and interest in and to each of
the asserted design patents listed below, copies of which are attached as Exhibits 8-10.
Patent Number Title
D627,790 (the “’D790 patent”) Graphical User Interface For a Display
Screen or Portion Thereof
D602,016 (the “’D016 patent”) Electronic Device
D618,677 (the “’D677 patent”) Electronic Device

So this is very much a patent lawsuit, over design patents rather than utility patents. Now what are these patents for exactly ? Unfortunately, hard to see since I don't have proper viewing software on my Mac for the USPTO office's image format and the patents themselves are mostly for drawings, as can be evidenced from D677 :

Description


FIG. 1 is a front perspective view of an electronic device in accordance with the present invention;

FIG. 2 is a rear perspective view thereof;

FIG. 3 is a front view thereof;

FIG. 4 is a rear view thereof;

FIG. 5 is a top view thereof;

FIG. 6 is bottom view thereof;

FIG. 7 is a left side view thereof; and,

FIG. 8 is a right side view thereof.

The claimed surface of the electronic device is illustrated with the color designation for the color black.

The electronic device is not limited to the scale shown herein. As indicated in the title, the article of manufacture to which the ornamental design has been applied is an electronic device, media player (e.g., music, video and/or game player), media storage device, a personal digital assistant, a communication device (e.g., cellular phone), a novelty item or toy.

I like I that last word on the description though...:p

Also, take notice the complaint is against what device... the original Galaxy Tab. The 7 incher with Gingerbread, not the Honeycomb stuff.

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 07:50 AM
People love to throw the pull down notifications menu into the mix. But name something else Apple has "stolen" from Android. We all know hind site is 20/20. Smartphones before, and after, just like tablets before and after iOS look dramatically different, and Apple isn't going to stand for blatant thievery.


Can you name something that Android has "stolen" from iOS?

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 07:57 AM
But name something else Apple has "stolen" from Android.

Apple has taken a lot of what the industry built over the years, not just from Android. For every line of products they have, they have built on top of the shoulders of giants before them. You want to nitpick single features (no need to even work here, articles have been (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/214268/20110915/top-10-android-features-ios-5-impersonated-apple-iphone-5-ipad-ipad-2-iphone-3gs-iphone-4-ipod-touch.htm) written on this subject (http://pocketnow.com/2012/06/13/what-did-apple-copy-from-android-and-windows-phone-in-ios-6/))

That's how the industry moves forward. Someone implants an idea, people run with it, improve it, make it better, abandon it for the next best thing. That's how the iPhone came about (building on top of RIM, Microsoft, Nokia's offerings) and that's how other players and phones will be built.

Apple is playing within this sandbox, but trying to keep all the toys to themselves. Don't work that way.

Small White Car
Jun 27, 2012, 08:02 AM
Nope, we're talking a patent lawsuit here too, don't try to move thar goalposts on me ;).

I'm not moving anything. My question has always been: What other companies has Apple sued over the way the products look? I haven't changed that question, and using your own links I still remain unconvinced.

You clearly point out with your quotes that this Samsung Galaxy thread is about how it looks. I agree with that part, that's been made clear.

The Motorolla link, however, simply says it's about "cellular technology patents" and the HTC link is more about the ban than the actual lawsuit, so it's hard to tell what that was over. In neither case do I see anything about the look of the device being mentioned.

Maybe those cases did involve issues like that when you dig deep down, but I'm not seeing that talked about in the article.

Which brings me back to my last post: If Apple has been suing other companies over the look of their devices, I haven't read about it.

I'm still willing to believe this is a journalism failure and that these articles just aren't making that fact clear. But if so, the links you provided only continue that trend.

MonkeySee....
Jun 27, 2012, 08:11 AM
What about Apple stealing Samsungs data methods?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18529756

This so called "Win" by Apple is useless, its bans an old product which they dont make any more?

"In accordance with the ruling, we will seek adequate compensation for the damages Apple and its products have caused."

So not only did they try to make money off Apples design for the galaxy tab. Because that flopped they will just make money of Apples iPad.

Nice work Samsung. :rolleyes:

iindigo
Jun 27, 2012, 08:11 AM
Ladies and gentlemen, I present you with the first rough draft of the Krasus Tab. Designed in 15 minutes by a random amateur on the internet (me) and meant to show that tablets need not look like iPads.

http://iindigo3d.com/KrasusTab.jpg


It may not be the prettiest thing out there, but that's not the point. If silly old me can manage that in a few spare moments, why can't the well-paid industrial designers of a global multi-million dollar company?

There's no excuse. Tablet makers should sell their products on their own merits instead of marketing it as, "It's an iPad... except cheaper!"

Small White Car
Jun 27, 2012, 08:14 AM
And btw, for those wondering, I'm more willing to believe Samsung is wrong because of stuff like this:

http://samsungcopiesapple.tumblr.com/

(The power charger is a particular favorite of mine.)

If Apple sued other companies because their phone looked like an iPhone, I'd be a LOT more skeptical and probably side with the other company at first. Seriously, if Apple ever sued RIM or HTC because their phone "looked like" an iPhone I really think I'd side with those companies at first blush.

But with Samsung, I really feel that they've proved they're doing this on purpose. Just look at that link and tell me it's all accidental. I know the legal case isn't decided on those merits, but I'm just explaining why I come into this biased against Samsung.

testerdennis
Jun 27, 2012, 08:17 AM
Hopefully this will deter Samsung (and, by extension, other companies) from copying others' designs to actually innovating on their own designs.

LMAO !!!! are you kidding me what about Apple that is how they make their living..

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 08:19 AM
People love to throw the pull down notifications menu into the mix. But name something else Apple has "stolen" from Android.You really want to go there? You want someone to name one of the plethora of things that Apple "has stolen"? I could talk about "access to camera from the unlock screen", "tab sync in Safari", the whole iCloud business with syncing contacts and content and on-the-fly system updates, "the VIP inbox concept", "Do Not Disturb mode", the upcoming "Map app with vector graphics and rotatable labels"... But what's the point? Innovation should come from a lot of sources, it shouldn't be artificially limited.

d0vr
Jun 27, 2012, 08:21 AM
Microsoft seemed to be able to do it and not have even the packaging INSIDE THE BOX look EXACTLY like Apple's

I used to think that Apple should just let it be, a tablet has a pretty basic form and competition is a good thing, but I had little opinion about the matter. Then my sister got a Samsung smart phone and I saw the box. It gets easier to support Apple once you see the box.

Rodimus Prime
Jun 27, 2012, 08:21 AM
Lets translate this ruling.

It means NOTHING. It is on a product that is no longer in production and Samsung is not even pushing or selling. So Apple one an injunction that is MEANING LESS.

It is on the first Galaxy tab 10.1 from last year. It does not effect the Galaxy tab 2 10.1.

MacRumors did a poor job of handling this one and left out key parts of infomation that is in the source link they got it from.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 08:22 AM
So not only did they try to make money off Apples design for the galaxy tab. Because that flopped they will just make money of Apples iPad.

Nice work Samsung. :rolleyes:

Seriously, it's funny how people can be so biased...

Apple suing Samsung - a fight to protect innovation
Samsung suing Apple - cheeky bastards trying to make money on Apple

Do you really see nothing wrong with your opinion?

MonkeySee....
Jun 27, 2012, 08:22 AM
And btw, for those wondering, I'm more willing to believe Samsung is wrong because of stuff like this:

http://samsungcopiesapple.tumblr.com/

(The power charger is a particular favorite of mine.)

If Apple sued other companies because their phone looked like an iPhone, I'd be a LOT more skeptical and probably side with the other company at first. Seriously, if Apple ever sued RIM or HTC because their phone "looked like" an iPhone I really think I'd side with those companies at first blush.

But with Samsung, I really feel that they've proved they're doing this on purpose. Just look at that link and tell me it's all accidental. I know the legal case isn't decided on those merits, but I'm just explaining why I come into this biased against Samsung.

Whoa, look what they did with the Mini.

I thought I couldn't have any less respect for them untill I saw that. Amazing

Small White Car
Jun 27, 2012, 08:24 AM
Whoa, look what they did with the Mini.

I thought I couldn't have any less respect for them untill I saw that. Amazing

Right? People keep saying "Well a tablet has to be a rectangle!"

Boy, if that's all it was then yeah, I'd be opposed to Apple too. But there's clearly so much more going on there.

MonkeySee....
Jun 27, 2012, 08:24 AM
Seriously, it's funny how people can be so biased...

Apple suing Samsung - a fight to protect innovation
Samsung suing Apple - cheeky bastards trying to make money on Apple

Do you really see nothing wrong with your opinion?

Did my comment not relate to that link? Not sure what was wrong with it at all.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 08:26 AM
I'm not moving anything. My question has always been: What other companies has Apple sued over the way the products look? I haven't changed that question, and using your own links I still remain unconvinced.

You said :

Which is why Apple is suing every tablet and Android phone over this particular issue...oh...wait...it's just Samsung? Nobody else?

Now, since you didn't define "particular issue", I thought it to mean iPad patents. Sorry if I was too broad in my interpretation of your "particular".

Vege-Taco
Jun 27, 2012, 08:26 AM
When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?

Dude, Android had that feature LONG before Apple added it in IOS 5.

samcraig
Jun 27, 2012, 08:27 AM
What's amusing - that is if this situation was reversed - it would seriously impeded Apple's business because their refresh rate is most always longer.

In other news - Samsung has already filed an appeal.


Lets translate this ruling.

It means NOTHING. It is on a product that is no longer in production and Samsung is not even pushing or selling. So Apple one an injunction that is MEANING LESS.

It is on the first Galaxy tab 10.1 from last year. It does not effect the Galaxy tab 2 10.1.

MacRumors did a poor job of handling this one and left out key parts of infomation that is in the source link they got it from.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 08:28 AM
You really want to go there? You want someone to name one of the plethora of things that Apple "has stolen"? I could talk about "access to camera from the unlock screen", "tab sync in Safari", the whole iCloud business with syncing contacts and content and on-the-fly system updates, "the VIP inbox concept", "Do Not Disturb mode", the upcoming "Map app with vector graphics and rotatable labels"... But what's the point? Innovation should come from a lot of sources, it shouldn't be artificially limited.

Don't waste your breath, he'll dismiss all your examples.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 08:29 AM
Dude, Android had that feature LONG before Apple added it in IOS 5.

I think that was sarcasm.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 08:32 AM
Lets translate this ruling.

It is on the first Galaxy tab 10.1 from last year.

It's not, it's on the original 7" Gingerbread Galaxy tab according to Apple's own complaint.

Next, let's analyse this ruling further :

This is about 1 of 4 claims that Judge Koh denied (yes, all 4 claims were denied). Apple appealed and won 1 single claim to be re-examined, on the basis that the prior art (the Knight Rider 1994 concept) didn't have exactly the same dimensions on every side. Judge Koh on the basis of the Appeal's court decision, had no choice but to grant the injunction, even though in her earlier ruling she was clear that she thinks the patent could very well be ruled invalid during trial.

In other words, Apple if they decide to put down the cash for the bond (they aren't obligated to have the injunction enforced btw), will probably lose that 2.6 million at trial and have to give it to Samsung.

Small White Car
Jun 27, 2012, 08:32 AM
Now, since you didn't define "particular issue", I thought it to mean iPad patents. Sorry if I was too broad in my interpretation of your "particular".

Sorry, I should have been more clear, I was confining myself to this particular MR article, but that's something that probably isn't assumed so I should have spelled it out.

sirozha
Jun 27, 2012, 08:35 AM
You really want to go there? You want someone to name one of the plethora of things that Apple "has stolen"? I could talk about "access to camera from the unlock screen", "tab sync in Safari", the whole iCloud business with syncing contacts and content and on-the-fly system updates, "the VIP inbox concept", "Do Not Disturb mode", the upcoming "Map app with vector graphics and rotatable labels"... But what's the point? Innovation should come from a lot of sources, it shouldn't be artificially limited.

Exactly! The key word here is innovation. What did Samsung innovate? The OS is given to them by Google for free, and the design, the UI, the accessories, and the packaging they rip off Apple.

charlituna
Jun 27, 2012, 08:36 AM
I'll bet there are more Windows users than Office users. Don't tell me your worried too?

Given that Office exists for the Mac and did for years before iWork was released, you'd likely lose that bet

Twixt
Jun 27, 2012, 08:39 AM
You do not attack someone you do not fear...
It is obvious AAPL feels the wind vane could turn soon thus trying any possible mean to postpone that very moment!
These patents fights make me upset, for us consumer copy between corporates is good just because it drives more need of innovation whereas monopoly like AAPL's one brings this situation where we are milked year after year with low level of innovative features.
AAPL is not so cool any more, soon FB will follow same path (not that I am a user of the latter...)

testerdennis
Jun 27, 2012, 08:42 AM
Dude, Android had that feature LONG before Apple added it in IOS 5.

If you read back I believe that quote was sarcasm.

charlituna
Jun 27, 2012, 08:45 AM
Yes, but no one is confusing an iPad with a Samsung.


Samsung did. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1251485)

Also yes some folks do confuse them. I've seen it. Was at a best buy and heard someone make the comment 'these iPads are cheaper' while standing at a tablet of Android tablets. They didn't understand that iPad is not a generic term. The sales guy tried to explain it but it wasn't sinking it because they 'look the same'. Sure this was a 60 something year old who might not be real tech savvy but that is kind of Apples point.

benpatient
Jun 27, 2012, 08:49 AM
There are. Remember tablets before the iPad? Now think of tablets after the iPad.

Looks pretty similar to me. (http://oregonexpat.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/the-truth-about-the-ipad/)

charlituna
Jun 27, 2012, 08:50 AM
. If the galaxy is copying the ipad then surely the dozens of other android based tablets are too so why dont they go sue them? .

Classic legal tactic. You sue one group, win and set a precedent. That precedent makes it easier to wipe up the rest because they tend to assume they will lose based on said precedent, so they are quicker to settle etc.

Apple went after Samsung as the most profitable of offenders. Another classic tactic

benpatient
Jun 27, 2012, 08:52 AM
Samsung did. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1251485)

Also yes some folks do confuse them. I've seen it. Was at a best buy and heard someone make the comment 'these iPads are cheaper' while standing at a tablet of Android tablets. They didn't understand that iPad is not a generic term. The sales guy tried to explain it but it wasn't sinking it because they 'look the same'. Sure this was a 60 something year old who might not be real tech savvy but that is kind of Apples point.

Don't be intentionally stupid. Old people call stuff the word they know. They call every mp3 player an ipod, no matter what shape it is. All of them. Apple advertised the crap out of the iPad, and old people watch TV. They see a computer that is flat and you touch the screen, and the only one of those they have ever seen is on 10,000 repetitions of the iPad commercial during prime time and late night network TV over the last 2.5 years.

Vege-Taco
Jun 27, 2012, 08:52 AM
I think that was sarcasm.

If you read back I believe that quote was sarcasm.

Oops! I usually catch this sort of sarcasm... guess it's too early still. ;)

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 08:52 AM
Samsung did. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1251485)

If you read the real story, not the biased reporting, you'd know that 1 lawyer from Samsung, from about 15 feet away with just a glimpse hesitated. The other lawyer then promptly took up the challenged and pointed to the correct tablet.

Following that display of apparent "blatant copying", Judge Koh denied all 4 Apple claims for designs. That should tell you how much this little factoid was blown out of proportions.

But of course, please, go on with mindless bashing, don't let facts get in the way of a good old witchhunt.

pc-proud
Jun 27, 2012, 08:53 AM
When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?

I'm assuming you are being sarcastic on this one? Everyone knows and should know that was theft from Android by apple on that one. (EDIT - Reading through, some are saying it's a license, is there proof of that?)

Even if a tablet could look similar or have a similar shape the box or tablet still says Samsung or Apple. How can you not know which tablet your using? All the apple fans or users will not "accidentally" buy a samsung tablet...

melendezest
Jun 27, 2012, 08:56 AM
It's sad to see people down-voting those who disagree with this decision. Removing competition harms consumers at the end of the day.

Exactly how different can a tablet be made to look?

The Microsoft Surface looks NOTHING like the iPad in both physical look and OS interface elements. Android is a blatant iOS clone, although as time goes own it is trying to spin off into it's own thing. Samsung is doing the same thing; inspiration is one thing, but damn, even the packaging is the same! I wish they would apply some of the design sensibility they put into their ultrabooks (some are quite different, unique, and stunning) to their tablets.

There is no denying that until Apple came out with its iPhone design, NO ONE was doing it like them. Not even close.

Although I'm an Apple fan, it is not simply because I blindly follow it like a sports team. I like the way that they choose to implement their ideas. All computing devices essentially allow you to do the same thing nowadays. The difference (and therefore IP) is (and always has been) in the how it is done. I simply prefer how Apple does things, and have nothing against those who prefer the way Google, Ubuntu, Red Hat, or Microsoft does things.

I believe Microsoft is to be commended here; WinPhone/8 is flat out different, interesting, and unique (their Lumia phone is different in every way from any iOs product, although it reminds me of the iPod mini). It shows what a company that actually wants to compete (and not just copy) can achieve once they set their minds out to do it. Google was moving in that direction with Honeycomb, etc, but only after blatantly copying, then "improving" on the original iOS design. There's an awful lot of devices that look and feel like an iOS device. WinPhone 7 does neither.

I would like what Apple wants; for other companies to show us something truly different! That is real choice.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 08:57 AM
Whoa, look what they did with the Mini.

I thought I couldn't have any less respect for them untill I saw that. Amazing

You people are so easy to manipulate....

This picture:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m56wdu12es1r3kdlto1_500.jpg

Compares the Mac Mini with the Chromebox. Correct. However what's very important to point out, we are comparing the bottom parts of both devices:
http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/05/29/06Samsung_Chromebox_35313576_610x458.JPG
This is a pretty standard design if you ask me, we shouldn't be arguing that Samsung "blatantly stole the design" only because it used a circle for this part of the device (my 10 year old DVD player also has a circle and a logo like this).



Now. Let's have a look at the devices from the top, so how you would normally view them:
http://asset0.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/05/25/03Samsung_Chromebox_35313576_620x433.JPG
http://cdn.electricpig.com.s3-external-3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/mac-mini-review-6-580x362.jpg

I think this is another case of "Apple invented a rectangle with rounded corners".

I think Dell is closer to that design because the DVD drive at the front:

http://restposten.mediamarkt.com.tr/uploads/13304469191324305823dell.jpg

But Dell could have based it on a design of Upont TX3 from 2004, a year before Mac Mini was released:
http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/tx3.jpg
Unfortunately I can't find a better image of Upont TX3, but you get the idea.

kaizenmx
Jun 27, 2012, 08:58 AM
http://i.imgur.com/MMNm6.jpg

Small White Car
Jun 27, 2012, 09:00 AM
You people are so easy to manipulate....


Ok, whip up a similar post telling me why that power adapter or phone box is perfectly reasonable.

pc-proud
Jun 27, 2012, 09:01 AM
When you are Samsung and run out of ideas, you start to copy Apple.
When you start to copy apple, you get sued by Apple.
When you get sued by Apple, your Apple copies get band to enter the country.
When your Apple copies get band to enter the country, you need to vanish,
When you need to vanish, you fake your own death.
When you fake your own death, you dye your eyebrows,
and when you dye your eyebrows, you attend your own funneral as a company named Phil Shifley.
Dont attend your own funneral as a company named Phil Shifley, get rid of Apple copying slaker employees and upgrade to good hardworking emploeyes that can think different.:D

^ I think you meant banned?
When you learn to spell, you will get your point across.
When you get your point across, people respect the post.
When people respect the post, you then sound intelligent.
When you sound intelligent, there is no need to fake your death.

MonkeySee....
Jun 27, 2012, 09:05 AM
You people are so easy to manipulate....

This picture:
Image (http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m56wdu12es1r3kdlto1_500.jpg)

Compares the Mac Mini with the Chromebox. Correct. However what's very important to point out, we are comparing the bottom parts of both devices:
Image (http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/05/29/06Samsung_Chromebox_35313576_610x458.JPG)
This is a pretty standard design if you ask me, we shouldn't be arguing that Samsung "blatantly stole the design" only because it used a circle for this part of the device (my 10 year old DVD player also has a circle and a logo like this).



Now. Let's have a look at the devices from the top, so how you would normally view them:
Image (http://asset0.cbsistatic.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/05/25/03Samsung_Chromebox_35313576_620x433.JPG)
Image (http://cdn.electricpig.com.s3-external-3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/mac-mini-review-6-580x362.jpg)

I think this is another case of "Apple invented a rectangle with rounded corners".

I think Dell is closer to that design because the DVD drive at the front:

Image (http://restposten.mediamarkt.com.tr/uploads/13304469191324305823dell.jpg)

But Dell could have based it on a design of Upont TX3 from 2004, a year before Mac Mini was released:
Image (http://www.admit-one.net/webimages/tx3.jpg)
Unfortunately I can't find a better image of Upont TX3, but you get the idea.

Ignore the rest of the crap you posted. Explain why is the bottom the same as Apples???

gnasher729
Jun 27, 2012, 09:06 AM
If Apple starts making TVs obviously intended to look as much like Samsung's as possible from the store packaging to the interface to the design of the set, they'd deserve to get sued too. I'm guessing they won't though.

I have a Samsung TV, and I think it looks quite nice, and it definitely has a distinctive look that is different from other TVs. If you go to a store with ten brands of TVs, you will see that they are all "TV shaped", but the Samsung ones look like Samsung TVs, and the Sony ones look like Sony TVs and so on. So if Jony Ive designs an Apple TV it is quite likely that it will look "TV shaped", but I would bet that it doesn't look like a Samsung TV, or Sony TV, or any other of those TVs.

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 09:09 AM
Android is a blatant iOS clone

Can you point what are those blatant copies?

Please, concrete examples

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 09:11 AM
Ignore the rest of the crap you posted. Explain why is the bottom the same as Apples???

It's a rectangle, it has rounded corners, it has a disc drive at the front... I guess based on the comments here that's enough to claim that "they stole from Apple"?

hayesk
Jun 27, 2012, 09:11 AM
Don't be intentionally stupid. Old people call stuff the word they know. They call every mp3 player an ipod, no matter what shape it is. All of them. Apple advertised the crap out of the iPad, and old people watch TV. They see a computer that is flat and you touch the screen, and the only one of those they have ever seen is on 10,000 repetitions of the iPad commercial during prime time and late night network TV over the last 2.5 years.

He's not being stupid, he's 100% bang on. His anecdote was indicative of the typical consumer. Note, that not a single one of us on this forum is a typical consumer. It isn't just old people; people of all ages are calling all tablets "iPads" and when they see two that look alike, they can easily be tricked into buying the wrong one if it's cheaper, comes with a free case that day, etc. This is what the concept of "consumer confusion" is all about. Apple claimed that Samsung designed their tablet to take advantage of this, and the court agreed.

MonkeySee....
Jun 27, 2012, 09:13 AM
It's a rectangle, it has rounded corners, it has a disc drive at the front... I guess based on the comments here that's enough to claim that "they stole from Apple"?

Haha. Congratulations for ignoring my post.

gnasher729
Jun 27, 2012, 09:13 AM
OMG it looks soooo much like the iPad. A rectangular shape, rounded corners, enough metallic bezel to provide a comfortable grip, similar width around the display - everything that Apple has invented. And that HP logo where the home button normally sits? Blasphemy. Volume buttons on the side? iPad did that! Conveniently placed headphone socket? A Silver back? Thank god they didn't steal iPad's USB adapter.

You seriously claim this looks like an iPad? Nothing like it.


The 'idea' of a rectangle screen with a black border around it. WOW, that's innovation. With all due respect, the reason apple's iPad is great is not the way it looks, but the way it works. I just don't get how the exterior design of the iPad is so 'amazing'. It's a rectangle. The screen is in front, and there's a black border around it. Am I missing something?

Of course you are missing something. Yes, the iPad sells because of the way it works. However, people know what an iPad looks like, they go to the store and some will end up buying something that looks like an iPad, but isn't an iPad. If the iPad had some particularly ugly design and everybody said "yes, it is ugly, but it's just perfect to use", then Apple still wouldn't want anyone to copy that particularly ugly design - because everybody seeing the design would think "it is an iPad" even when it isn't.

And the "design patent" is for a very particular design, not for parts of the design. Someone else can have a design that has things in common with the iPad design, they can have even many things in common, just not everything.

melendezest
Jun 27, 2012, 09:14 AM
Right? People keep saying "Well a tablet has to be a rectangle!"

Boy, if that's all it was then yeah, I'd be opposed to Apple too. But there's clearly so much more going on there.

Dude, thanks for the link. I thought Samsung was wrong just on the merits of their Galaxy Tab product design, interface, and packaging. But wow, how can people think that this is okay??? I'd be ready to off someone if they stole my stuff my ideas like that. They'd wake up with a horse's head next to them.

hayesk
Jun 27, 2012, 09:15 AM
You people are so easy to manipulate....

This picture:

Uhm... if you think those mini PCs look more like a Mac mini than the Samsung Chromebox, then you need your eyes checked.

And yes, making the top black does help to distinguish it a bit, but come on, how many other PCs had a circular cover on the bottom before the Mac mini? Why didn't Samsung just put four screws on the bottom and have the whole plate come off instead?

Not only that, how many PC manufacturers even showed the bottom of the PC in marketing materials?

Don't expect anyone with a little bit of intelligence to see the bottom of that Samsung Chromebox and conclude they didn't get that idea directly from the Mac mini.

melendezest
Jun 27, 2012, 09:17 AM
Can you point what are those blatant copies?

Please, concrete examples

See SmallWhiteCar's post, with the iPhone and the Samsung phone side by side. Even the icon color scheme is the same...

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 09:22 AM
See SmallWhiteCar's post, with the iPhone and the Samsung phone side by side. Even the icon color scheme is the same...

That is NOT Android and even, the Galaxy icons are not the homescreen

zoetmb
Jun 27, 2012, 09:23 AM
"...we need to protect Apple's intellectual property when companies steal our ideas."

Good one, Apple. I'll keep quiet about valid arguments of cases where YOU guys have stolen ideas from other companies.
(Which, everyone steals from everyone so I guess it doesn't matter anyway)

It's not the idea - it's the implementation of the idea. The problem with what Samsung did is that they copied almost everything at once, including the packaging and trade dress. It's one thing to say that the problem you're solving is always going to require the same solution: any computer device is going to have a screen and either a virtual or physical keyboard. It's quite another to design a device that has almost exactly the same finish, corners, bezel, general UI of software, box, colors, etc. What Samsung did was just one step short of pirating and they deserve to be stopped.

Samsung is a smart company with some great products. They won the TV market with building some great sets at lower prices. They need to use their expertise, engineering and imagination a bit more rather than copying everything Apple does.

That's all quite different that "borrowing" a single element of a UI or the idea of a spreadsheet. Beyond that, what has Apple stolen? And don't tell me the original GUI of the Mac because they paid Xerox a $million for a license to do so.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 09:26 AM
You seriously claim this looks like an iPad? Nothing like it.

Just to clarify. It looks nothing like it?

Navdakilla
Jun 27, 2012, 09:27 AM
good job Apple

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 09:33 AM
Don't expect anyone with a little bit of intelligence to see the bottom of that Samsung Chromebox and conclude they didn't get that idea directly from the Mac mini.
I love such arguments. "Anyone smart enough", "Don't expect anyone with a little bit of intelligence", etc.. Love them.

I on the other hand am going to claim that if you think that the circle on the back of the computer was stolen from Apple, you're an idiot. How's that for a nice argument?

----------

Haha. Congratulations for ignoring my post.

Please elaborate. Which post you're talking about?

Will do good
Jun 27, 2012, 09:35 AM
"...we need to protect Apple's intellectual property when companies steal our ideas."

Good one, Apple. I'll keep quiet about valid arguments of cases where YOU guys have stolen ideas from other companies.
(Which, everyone steals from everyone so I guess it doesn't matter anyway)

If other companies feel Apple have stole from them, they can sue Apple. Let's see how successful those claims are.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 09:36 AM
If other companies feel Apple have stole from them, they can sue Apple. Let's see how successful those claims are.Not everyone wants to be a patent troll.

gnasher729
Jun 27, 2012, 09:38 AM
Just to clarify. It looks nothing like it?

If you put an iPad, a Samsung tablet, and this HP tablet on a table, then anyone can pick the odd one out which would be this HP tablet.


(Talking about a small Dell computer, about as small as a MacMini)

It's a rectangle, it has rounded corners, it has a disc drive at the front... I guess based on the comments here that's enough to claim that "they stole from Apple"?

According to many of the straw man argument along the lines of "rectangle with rounded corners", it would be enough for a straw man claim. Of course it doesn't look like a Mac Mini at all. The height / width ratio is very distinctively different, even more than the difference between the old and the new Mac Mini. The corners are not just rounded, but they start moving inside from quite a distance to the corner, and only later are they circular shaped, while the MacMini's corners are just quarter circles. The material is totally different. Any one of these would mean that the design is different from the Mac Mini's design.

Lindenhurst
Jun 27, 2012, 09:41 AM
When is Apple going to sue Android manufacturers for copying iOS's pulldown notification center?


They may have copied it but they made it magical..Hey.. I love Apple stuff as much as the next guy buy unlike a year or so ago, I am now using products made by someone other than Apple and they " just work" as well.

samcraig
Jun 27, 2012, 09:41 AM
He's not being stupid, he's 100% bang on. His anecdote was indicative of the typical consumer. Note, that not a single one of us on this forum is a typical consumer. It isn't just old people; people of all ages are calling all tablets "iPads" and when they see two that look alike, they can easily be tricked into buying the wrong one if it's cheaper, comes with a free case that day, etc. This is what the concept of "consumer confusion" is all about. Apple claimed that Samsung designed their tablet to take advantage of this, and the court agreed.

I think you're taking liberties. And no doubt, to some degree I am too when I say that most consumers won't be "tricked" into buying a cheaper tablet thinking they are getting an iPad. Most consumers will CHOOSE to spend less money for an iPad-like device.

That's not the same.

sirozha
Jun 27, 2012, 09:43 AM
It's a rectangle, it has rounded corners, it has a disc drive at the front... I guess based on the comments here that's enough to claim that "they stole from Apple"?

Whatís important is the cover on the underbody, which can be twisted and taken off, that allows access to the inside of the Mac Mini without requiring any tools. It makes it possible to upgrade RAM - the most commonly done hardware upgrade - literally within a couple of minutes. Samsung copied the design of the underbody almost verbatim. This is an example of why Apple is suing Samsung. Samsung could have designed access to the inside of their computer from underbody in a different way, but they chose to copy Appleís design. If they really thought that the Appleís design is the best way to provide access to the internal parts, then they should have asked Apple to license out that feature to them. Iím not sure Apple holds a patent for this design, but Iím sure that if they donít, they are paying a license fee to those who do.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 09:43 AM
If you put an iPad, a Samsung tablet, and this HP tablet on a table, then anyone can pick the odd one out which would be this HP tablet.
Yes, because it's silver. And it's nearly ten years old. It's still a rectangle with rounded edges.

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 09:44 AM
If you put an iPad, a Samsung tablet, and this HP tablet on a table, then anyone can pick the odd one out which would be the iPad, the Samsung and the HP tablet.

Corrected, you're welcome

mygoldens
Jun 27, 2012, 09:44 AM
Apple, grow up!

Somebody has got a similar idea to yours....let's take notifications, Android had the pull down first, should Google block the sale of the iPhone/iPad?

Make a better iPad and people will buy it, stop playing games already!

I personally do not see a use for a slate like the iPad, but to each their own.

ChrisTX
Jun 27, 2012, 09:46 AM
Can you name something that Android has "stolen" from iOS?

I can't tell if you're being facetious or not. However I'll spare you the whole factual argument that points out that the original prototype android phone that was made by HTC looked exactly like a BlackBerry. I guess being the CEO, and sitting on the board of directors for the competition certainly doesn't hurt either. It's also very telling when the CEO(at the time) could be seen on various occasions using a BlackBerry because this own mobile OS simply wasn't good enough.
http://www.embeddedflash.com/wp-content/ti_android_prototype.jpeg

foodog
Jun 27, 2012, 09:50 AM
Apple is suing every tablet manufacturer who uses Android. Samsung, Motorola, HTC... Go figure.

No they are suing manufacturers based on specifics, mostly to do with phones and FRAND. With Samsung it is about how they marketed the Galaxy.

Oletros
Jun 27, 2012, 09:51 AM
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not. However I'll spare you the whole factual argument that points out that the original prototype android phone that was made by HTC looked exactly like a BlackBerry. I guess being the CEO, and sitting on the board of directors for the competition certainly doesn't hurt either.

My God, another time the wrong fact about the Blackberry prototype?

One: There weere TWO prototypes, one touch only and the other like WM ((not Blackberry)

Two: Android is SOFTWARE, not HARDWARE. Can you pint what Android, the operating system has stolen from iOS?

Three: Are you accsuing Erich Schmidt of stealing?

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 09:51 AM
Whatís important is the cover on the underbody, which can be twisted and taken off, that allows access to the inside of the Mac Mini without requiring any tools. It makes it possible to upgrade RAM - the most commonly done hardware upgrade - literally within a couple of minutes. Samsung copied the design of the underbody almost verbatim. This is an example of why Apple is suing Samsung. Samsung could have designed access to the inside of their computer from underbody in a different way, but they chose to copy Appleís design. If they really thought that the Appleís design is the best way to provide access to the internal parts, then they should have asked Apple to license out that feature to them. Iím not sure Apple holds a patent for this design, but Iím sure that if they donít, they are paying a license fee to those who do.
This is a perfect example of "Apple talk". "The underbody can be twisted and taken off (...) it makes it possible to upgrade RAM - the most commonly done hardware upgrade - literally within a couple of minutes." This all sounds great, it's "revolutionary" and gives the user "an entirely new experience" blah blah blah, but:

1) Apple is known for making it difficult to replace components in your hardware (can you replace iPhone's battery? No?)
2) This is NOT an original idea. There is a plethora of devices out there which have a underbody with an easy-removable lid. I have a very old blender which has a circular lid which you can twist and open if you want to oil some of the rotating parts (that's how old it is). I remember owning a dancing toy which had a circular lid which you could twist to open and replace the battery inside.

samcraig
Jun 27, 2012, 09:52 AM
I can't tell if you're being facetious or not. However I'll spare you the whole factual argument that points out that the original prototype android phone that was made by HTC looked exactly like a BlackBerry. I guess being the CEO, and sitting on the board of directors for the competition certainly doesn't hurt either.

Jobs never accused (nor did Apple) any board member of impropriety. Let it go. Correlation does not imply causation.

Also let go the notion that the prototype whose likeness was released was the one and only way HTC was going or would go with the product with or without the iPhone.

Circumstantial evidence isn't fact.

foodog
Jun 27, 2012, 09:52 AM
Make a better iPad and people will buy it, stop playing games already!

I think its the other way around. iPads are selling pretty well.

JAT
Jun 27, 2012, 09:52 AM
The average Joe only knows Windows. Just like Apple targets the average Joe. Only Windows has a lot more average Joe's. And it does the job just fine.
I don't think you actually grasped either of my posts. I disagree completely about Joe. Joe knows what he DOES, not what OS his computer runs, or anything about the OS other than the name. Presumably, the MS tablets will have Office on them, that is what users USE. That is what they will care about. If MS put out Office for iOS, it would severely change the MS tablet potential.

Bezetos
Jun 27, 2012, 09:53 AM
No they are suing manufacturers based on specifics, mostly to do with phones and FRAND. With Samsung it is about how they marketed the Galaxy.
Yes you are correct, some of the cases against Samsung do relate to how they have marketed their product; however there are many cases against Samsung and they include ones that relate to technical specifics.