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MacRumors
Jun 27, 2012, 02:00 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/27/some-retina-macbook-pro-users-experiencing-display-ghosting/)


Earlier this week, The Next Web noted (http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/06/25/apple-reportedly-replacing-retina-macbook-pro-models-that-show-signs-of-screen-ghosting/) that some early purchasers of the Retina MacBook Pro have been experiencing "ghosting" on their machines' displays, with remnants of previously-displayed screen contents remaining visible for some time afterward.Some readers on the ASC forum have reported the image retention issue with as little as 20 minutes worth of use. However it's well worth noting that the problem isn't happening to everyone, and image retention isn't uncommon on IPS panels such as the one used in the new Pro.Apple has reportedly been replacing machines affected by the issue, but tight supplies of the Retina MacBook Pro could result in waits for the replacement units.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/06/retina_macbook_pro_display_ghosting.jpg


Ghosting on Retina MacBook Pro display (Source: Mac Performance Guide (http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2012/20120623_2-MacBookPro-Retina-screen-burn-in-ghost-images.html))
DisplayMate's Ray Soneira notes on his news page (http://www.displaymate.com/news.html) that such behavior is not restricted to IPS panels such as those used in the new Retina MacBook Pro, suggesting that the issue is likely an early production problem that Apple has perhaps already ironed out.It used to be much more common, but now it's unusual to see it in a display. The cause varies: an electrostatic build up, a chemical impurity build up, a thermal imbalance, or an electronic levels issue within the panel. Depending on the cause it can be better to leave the display on with a dark uniform image, on with a bright uniform image, or turn the display off all together.Apple continues to cite shipping estimates of 3-4 weeks for new Retina MacBook Pro orders amid high demand, and the company is apparently delaying some early custom-configured orders (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/27/apple-delaying-early-retina-macbook-pro-orders-for-some-business-customers/) from business customers by up to a month from their original estimates.

Article Link: Some Retina MacBook Pro Users Experiencing Display 'Ghosting' (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/27/some-retina-macbook-pro-users-experiencing-display-ghosting/)



Jasoco
Jun 27, 2012, 02:02 PM
Well. Looks like the first generation curse still exists.

I'm still considering one though. I just have to try it in person before I make a decision. This wouldn't affect my decision as it'll be sorted out in time.

Tadros86
Jun 27, 2012, 02:03 PM
And this is why I learned not to be an early adaptor since iPhone 4's antenna gate :rolleyes:

Comeagain?
Jun 27, 2012, 02:04 PM
My iPad 2 does that too...

J.L.Photography
Jun 27, 2012, 02:04 PM
i promised not to fret to any of these allegations until i actually recieve mine and experience it first hand, then ill deal with it as the problems arise!

*cross my fingers*

DrJohnnyN
Jun 27, 2012, 02:05 PM
Hopefully it's only the first batch of RMBP's.

brueck
Jun 27, 2012, 02:06 PM
This hasn't happened to me. I wonder how many machines have been affected and how many many machines are out there.

CplBadboy
Jun 27, 2012, 02:06 PM
Its because they are holding it the wrong way.

anzio
Jun 27, 2012, 02:06 PM
Can't replicate this on mine. Hopefully others receiving them shortly can say the same :)

1080p
Jun 27, 2012, 02:07 PM
I still LOL at the people on the iPad forum who have gone through 8 - 10 iPads because their display isn't perfect. Now it will be rMBP.

Quazimojo
Jun 27, 2012, 02:09 PM
These types of issues are totally random and it could still happen to people a year from now . Even if 5 out of 100 people have it that would be considered normal .

Great thing is that this is Apple and if you are not happy they will try their best to make you happy.

I guess the biggest issue right now is people waiting 3-4 weeks get one of these lemons and they might be stuck waiting another month for a replacement which is certainly frustrating .

bedifferent
Jun 27, 2012, 02:10 PM
Never buy first model revisions. Waiting for the "kinks" to get worked out before diving into one of these babies. (retina iPad was the first indication that "retina" systems may have a few issues, which is normal) :D

RabidMacFan
Jun 27, 2012, 02:10 PM
I've seen ghosting on my original iPad. Safari's location bar would sometimes ghost onto the Springboard, and it looked like it faded into the background. It really wasn't too noticeable though.

alehen
Jun 27, 2012, 02:11 PM
My iPad 2 does that even after 5 minutes of use. It started on the borders, now I have image persistence all over the screen.. =[

Eidorian
Jun 27, 2012, 02:12 PM
Well. Looks like the first generation curse still exists.

I'm still considering one though. I just have to try it in person before I make a decision. This wouldn't affect my decision as it'll be sorted out in time.Time to wait for refurbished models! Coming sooner than expected! :D

ace198
Jun 27, 2012, 02:14 PM
Its because they are holding it the wrong way.
More like 'They're picking it up the wrong way'.

Object-X
Jun 27, 2012, 02:15 PM
That could be a problem if it ghosted the porn site you were looking at for too long.

Tsuchiya
Jun 27, 2012, 02:15 PM
Get this all the time on my iPad 2.

Piggie
Jun 27, 2012, 02:17 PM
It is a shame this is happening.

It is strange, Screen issues seem to always be Apple's weak point. I don't know why this is. You would think after year of screen issues on earlier Apple products, and the fact that it's the screen that is, by it's very nature, in your face, they would do everything they can do to make sure future products do not suffer any noticeable flaws.

And yet, screen problems are almost guaranteed now on a new product.
It's a shame.

ugp
Jun 27, 2012, 02:19 PM
Like others are saying why I went with the Non-Retina for now. Wait a generation or so before I go with something that expensive.

rmwebs
Jun 27, 2012, 02:20 PM
My iPad 2 does that too...

My iPad 1 did it, and my iPad 3 does it. In fairness though, its hardly noticeable on the 3 - it was very noticeable on the 1.

All screens will do it if you leave the same thing on them for too long. Its rarely permanent though.

I remember my first flat-screen iMac in 2007. It worked beautifully, until about 2009 when it would ghost like crazy!

Hakone
Jun 27, 2012, 02:20 PM
"You mean the retina display is so accurate that you can see ghosts?"

-Derp

RonnieSan
Jun 27, 2012, 02:23 PM
I have an open case with Apple care regarding a different display issue that I know a few people have also had. I had a small consistent light spot on my Retina display (others have reported several). The spot isn't due to ghosting and does not go away. It looks like a small 1/8 inch light spot and its more apparent at certain angles and against a lighter background.

I've already spoken with Apple Care and someone from the engineering department. They're very interested in the case. They're sending a replacement unit, but are treating defective units differently than new sales, so the replacements ship within 1-1.5 weeks rather than a whole month.

----------

Like others are saying why I went with the Non-Retina for now. Wait a generation or so before I go with something that expensive.

If you upgrade the non-retina to the same specs as the retina, it's $200 more and you don't get the retina screen.

charlieridley
Jun 27, 2012, 02:25 PM
My ipad 2 does this also. The apple "genius" told me that it is not a known issue and because its a year old its out of warranty so they wouldn't replace it.

MTShipp
Jun 27, 2012, 02:27 PM
That could be a problem if it ghosted the porn site you were looking at for too long.

Of all the comments talking about this, yours actually made me laugh and I +1 you.

alehen
Jun 27, 2012, 02:28 PM
the weird is that you use the iPad for a year and never get ghosts, but when you do get ghosts, they start to ruin the screen, comming and going even after few minutes of use.

Big-TDI-Guy
Jun 27, 2012, 02:29 PM
Image persistence has been around forever.

It may be due to the smaller size of the pixels themselves, less liquid in a given area - takes longer to "rotate".

Perhaps retina displays are limited in how much current can be put across the thinner matrix. (smaller pixels - smaller conductors - lower current threshold)

It's not unique to the retina, however.

Every tech has a drawback, plasma - burn in, LCD - persistence, OLED - Mura.

Usually, LCD persistence is only temporary, and will go away after a while, not quite the same when it comes to CRT, Plasma or OLED.

OzyOly
Jun 27, 2012, 02:31 PM
Not this again! I was plagued with image retention for years with my 24" iMac back in the day. Apple told me, after two LCD replacements, to just live with it in the end.

For a £1k+ machine I think it's disgusting that people should have to put up with displays like this.

840quadra
Jun 27, 2012, 02:34 PM
Great, the next new thing that 100s will placebo themselves into thinking they have, when they personally don't have an effected system.

OzyOly
Jun 27, 2012, 02:36 PM
Great, the next new thing that 100s will placebo themselves into thinking they have, when they personally don't have an effected system.

When you have image retention it's noticeable though. I could read LaTeX documents on my screen that I had been typing when I opened up safari to look something up. It would remain there for well over 20mins. It's not acceptable.

orangerizzla
Jun 27, 2012, 02:36 PM
Fortunately for me they will have fixed all the initial bugs by the time I have saved up enough money to buy one...

Glideslope
Jun 27, 2012, 02:40 PM
Well. Looks like the first generation curse still exists.

I'm still considering one though. I just have to try it in person before I make a decision. This wouldn't affect my decision as it'll be sorted out in time.

Actually I'd say the LG Display in place of a Samsung. ;)

Big-TDI-Guy
Jun 27, 2012, 02:40 PM
I have a 24" iMac (2006) that has this issue, move the dock, and you can see its outline on solid light grey/blue backgrounds. It goes away after a while (seems not to matter whether or not the machine is running - the time period is roughly the same)

Could be my eyes, but seems less of an issue when it's warmer out, then during the cooler months.

However my 20" iMac (early 2005) - does not have this issue at all.

840quadra
Jun 27, 2012, 02:40 PM
When you have image retention it's noticeable though. I could read LaTeX documents on my screen that I had been typing when I opened up safari to look something up. It would remain there for well over 20mins. It's not acceptable.

I am not denying that some people do have affected systems, nor was I singling you out in any way.

A reported hardware problem, then countless people claiming they have it, is becoming too commonplace in the world computer hardware these days. Just makes it much harder for people that actually do have a hardware problem to get it resolved if there are so many others crying wolf.

jaymzuk
Jun 27, 2012, 02:41 PM
Great, the next new thing that 100s will placebo themselves into thinking they have, when they personally don't have an effected system.

Unfortunately as Apple have been built up as the company where everything just works in addition to the fashion factor, and you price accordingly, people expect perfection.

If you upgrade the non-retina to the same specs as the retina, it's $200 more and you don't get the retina screen.

Unfortunately that's only testament to the absurdity that is Apple's upgrade pricing

rmwebs
Jun 27, 2012, 02:46 PM
I have an open case with Apple care regarding a different display issue that I know a few people have also had. I had a small consistent light spot on my Retina display (others have reported several). The spot isn't due to ghosting and does not go away. It looks like a small 1/8 inch light spot and its more apparent at certain angles and against a lighter background.

I've already spoken with Apple Care and someone from the engineering department. They're very interested in the case. They're sending a replacement unit, but are treating defective units differently than new sales, so the replacements ship within 1-1.5 weeks rather than a whole month.

Hmm, sounds like it may have been rushed to market a bit and they aren't aware of all possible/potential issues.

Eidorian
Jun 27, 2012, 02:51 PM
Hmm, sounds like it may have been rushed to market a bit and they aren't aware of all possible/potential issues.As mentioned before, Apple's Achilles' heel tends to be the displays. I find it hard to believe they do not have these things sitting in testing and QA for longer than these owners have had them at home.

For display tinting issues, I am going to blame the backlights and filters.

ugp
Jun 27, 2012, 02:52 PM
I have an open case with Apple care regarding a different display issue that I know a few people have also had. I had a small consistent light spot on my Retina display (others have reported several). The spot isn't due to ghosting and does not go away. It looks like a small 1/8 inch light spot and its more apparent at certain angles and against a lighter background.

I've already spoken with Apple Care and someone from the engineering department. They're very interested in the case. They're sending a replacement unit, but are treating defective units differently than new sales, so the replacements ship within 1-1.5 weeks rather than a whole month.

----------



If you upgrade the non-retina to the same specs as the retina, it's $200 more and you don't get the retina screen.

What I meant is a product that is having problems. Apps don't support it yet. Overall it's going to take time for everything to work as it should. The screen on the Non-Retina looks good already. I sacrificed the Retina display to have an Optical Drive if I need it or replace it with a second HDD. Also replace the HDD down the road much cheaper and upgrade the RAM when I need it if I need it instead of paying extra for something now I might not even need down the road.

macjolt
Jun 27, 2012, 02:53 PM
My ipad 2 does this also. The apple "genius" told me that it is not a known issue and because its a year old its out of warranty so they wouldn't replace it.

And this is why you purchase AppleCare.

ProVideo
Jun 27, 2012, 02:55 PM
Not a good sign. Even if your machine isn't currently displaying these symptoms, the fact that some are points to this becoming a problem down the line, likely across the board.

I have an old cinema display from the mid 00's that is so bad at ghosting it is unusable for the most part. It also has a dark halo around the edges. It only got worse as time went on and after 3 or 4 years it got absolutely terrible but was out of warranty by then. After that I had an iMac from around '07 with similar issues that also got worse as time went on.

I think I'll wait to hear more on the retina displays before I dive in. Hopefully Apple is looking into the problem and allows customers to easily have them replaced.

spazzcat
Jun 27, 2012, 02:56 PM
Never buy first model revisions. Waiting for the "kinks" to get worked out before diving into one of these babies. (retina iPad was the first indication that "retina" systems may have a few issues, which is normal) :D

If no one buys the first gen, then how are they going to work out the bugs? And if this is only happening to a few system then they may have just gotten a bad batch of screens.

andybrown44
Jun 27, 2012, 02:56 PM
i still lol at the people on the ipad forum who have gone through 8 - 10 ipads because their display isn't perfect. Now it will be rmbp.

if i put the brightness on full and have a completely black screen, in a pitch black room, i can see a tiny bit of light bleeding from the edge of the screen!!!11!!11!!

LaDirection
Jun 27, 2012, 02:59 PM
And this is why I learned not to be an early adaptor since iPhone 4's antenna gate :rolleyes:

Actually, make that every single Apple product since the eMac's infamous raster shift and brown bar on the screen's side.

saturn79
Jun 27, 2012, 03:00 PM
Hello MacRumors,

You are using the wrong terminology for this phenomenon here. This "ghosting" is actually called image retention, as previously stated by quoted article. "Ghosting" is NOT image retention. Ghosting is the trailing effect on an image when moved around on an LCD screen. Ex. With the LCD screen of the iPhone 4/4S, you can see text blur and elongate when you scroll down a page.

Saturn79

brdeveloper
Jun 27, 2012, 03:01 PM
Great thing is that this is Apple and if you are not happy they will try their best to make you happy.

Only in USA. I doubt local Apple web stores or physical retailers will promptly accept the problem and ship another unit just because a neurotic consumer is whining about this insignificant issue. In USA, consumer is much more respected because lawsuits are usually more expensive in relation to other countries.

That's why Apple changed the prospects of Mountain Lion omitting the text that stated that Macs were virus-free.

nicuni
Jun 27, 2012, 03:03 PM
A little off topic, but I think the most disappointing part about this new Mac is the lack of a CD drive. I would be willing to take my chances with the new retina display, but I really don't want a notebook without a disc drive. It's stupid. I thought that was what the Air was for...

WestonHarvey1
Jun 27, 2012, 03:05 PM
Never buy first model revisions. Waiting for the "kinks" to get worked out before diving into one of these babies. (retina iPad was the first indication that "retina" systems may have a few issues, which is normal) :D

The kinks aren't going to be worked out until we get a brand new screen technology that's idiot proof or Apple starts dumping more money into QC. All Apple displays have been a lottery for years.

You either accept what you get, or go through the painful process of swapping it, possibly more than once, until you get one you can live with. Just be thankful that you only have to lug a laptop back to the store and not a 27" iMac or Thunderbolt Display.

macjolt
Jun 27, 2012, 03:09 PM
A little off topic, but I think the most disappointing part about this new Mac is the lack of a CD drive. I would be willing to take my chances with the new retina display, but I really don't want a notebook without a disc drive. It's stupid. I thought that was what the Air was for...

How often do you honestly use the optical drive on your computer? I haven't used a CD in about a year.

Eidorian
Jun 27, 2012, 03:13 PM
I have an old cinema display from the mid 00's that is so bad at ghosting it is unusable for the most part. It also has a dark halo around the edges. It only got worse as time went on and after 3 or 4 years it got absolutely terrible but was out of warranty by then. After that I had an iMac from around '07 with similar issues that also got worse as time went on.
Those might have been PVA based panels, known for ghosting issues. They are better now and have some nice blacks.

Codyak
Jun 27, 2012, 03:14 PM
How often do you honestly use the optical drive on your computer? I haven't used a CD in about a year.

Haven't used mine in about the same amount of time, and maybe once(could have used USB just as easily) in about two years.

Aco Strkalj
Jun 27, 2012, 03:20 PM
I just noticed the same ghosting on my MBPr. I see outlines of blocks and things but you notice them under the right lighting conditions. They do fade for me within an hour.

Could explain the unique glow of this display that seemed overwhelming when I first approached this system. I wrote about it in my initial impression review:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1389237

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 27, 2012, 03:25 PM
How's this different from image persistence, a normal phenomenon that fades over time?

Pakaku
Jun 27, 2012, 03:26 PM
The Retina MacBook Pro. So beautiful that you'll want to keep looking at the screen AFTER it's turned off.

JayLenochiniMac
Jun 27, 2012, 03:27 PM
A little off topic, but I think the most disappointing part about this new Mac is the lack of a CD drive. I would be willing to take my chances with the new retina display, but I really don't want a notebook without a disc drive. It's stupid. I thought that was what the Air was for...

You're aware that physical media is pretty much dead and none of the new Macs (including Mac Pro) will come standard with an optical drive within a couple years?

daneoni
Jun 27, 2012, 03:27 PM
They're looking at it wrong.

danimal99
Jun 27, 2012, 03:29 PM
My iPad 1 does this as well, but I didn't really notice it until well after it was out of warranty. However, it's not permanent, and fades away after a few minutes. I see it mostly after using something like Zite or Safari that has a lot of elements fixed in the same place for a period of time.

It's also only really noticeable if the next screen is a medium tone, like a middle gray, and solid or lightly textured.

lmddawson
Jun 27, 2012, 03:36 PM
Fortunately for me they will have fixed all the initial bugs by the time I have saved up enough money to buy one...

They will have released about 3 new versions before I save enough money to buy one :rolleyes:

unplugme71
Jun 27, 2012, 03:37 PM
How often do you honestly use the optical drive on your computer? I haven't used a CD in about a year.

Why are we talking about CD's? The interest rates are crap anyway so why bother getting one.

Oh, that CD! haha

Yeah I haven't used my SuperDrive in a long time. Kinda happy they got rid of it considering I download everything. Plus its one less thing to go bad, get jammed, etc.

I laugh when I buy hardware that still ships with floppy disks. I call the manufacturer and demand I be able to download or get the driver on CD/USB flash drive.

ristlin
Jun 27, 2012, 03:40 PM
Game over man.

nicuni
Jun 27, 2012, 03:41 PM
How often do you honestly use the optical drive on your computer? I haven't used a CD in about a year.

I actually use it quite a bit. I use it to burn CD mixes and playing games that require the disc. Also importing music that I buy. I use it a lot. Oh and I use it to watch DVDs sometimes.

faroZ06
Jun 27, 2012, 03:48 PM
Never buy stuff on the release date. You'll get a refund or a new item if there is a problem, but it's just a hassle.

Mad-B-One
Jun 27, 2012, 03:50 PM
My ipad 2 does this also. The apple "genius" told me that it is not a known issue and because its a year old its out of warranty so they wouldn't replace it.

Apple care 4tw - or does that not cover it? Then you would have to "accidently" drop it since that is covered.

TMar
Jun 27, 2012, 03:50 PM
That's not ghosting, it's magical.

nutjob
Jun 27, 2012, 03:58 PM
Well. Looks like the first generation curse still exists.

I'm still considering one though. I just have to try it in person before I make a decision. This wouldn't affect my decision as it'll be sorted out in time.

I'm not so sure. I think they'll tell you "you're holding it wrong".

----------

Apple care 4tw - or does that not cover it? Then you would have to "accidently" drop it since that is covered.

Accidental damage isn't covered by AppleCare.

Radio
Jun 27, 2012, 03:59 PM
"If there is ghosting they blew it"

xsdeus
Jun 27, 2012, 04:02 PM
I don't seem to have a problem with mine. I've had it for a week now.

Bubba Satori
Jun 27, 2012, 04:03 PM
As mentioned before, Apple's Achilles' heel tends to be the displays.
I find it hard to believe they do not have these things sitting in testing
and QA for longer than these owners have had them at home.

The owners are testing and QA.

A brilliant move on Apple's part, really.
Don't fund an expensive, labor intensive QA testing department.
Have the people who buy your products do the testing
and sell the defective units in the refurb store where the lower classes
can be delirious for saving a couple hundred bucks. Magic... :apple:

maflynn
Jun 27, 2012, 04:03 PM
This is my concern - being on the bleeding edge. I'm still waiting for my rMBP to ship. hopefully the problem will be resolved by and large before they get to processing my order.

kiljoy616
Jun 27, 2012, 04:03 PM
And this is why I learned not to be an early adaptor since iPhone 4's antenna gate :rolleyes:

A no big deal (antenna gate), though not been an early adapter does have its benefit, its not a bad idea to wait a bit when buying equipment. Giving your self say a 3 month window give you a good feel for issue that may arise from advance hardware mistakes or abnormalities. If you don't need it then wait a bit but sooner or later its time to take the plunge.

Still for those who need the rush of been early adapter I thank you for making my life easier on the emotional roller coster that is earlier adapters. :D

dbyway
Jun 27, 2012, 04:12 PM
That awkward moment when an XXX picture gets stuck on the screen. Thankfully, I haven't had the ghosting problem.

ladeer
Jun 27, 2012, 04:17 PM
How do you check if your screen is affected?

heisetax
Jun 27, 2012, 04:18 PM
How often do you honestly use the optical drive on your computer? I haven't used a CD in about a year.

Speak for yourself. Just because you do not need one does not mean hat someone else does not. That is why, "one size fits all" does not really work. With enough models & choices within those models there can be enough choices for everyone. Apple needed a few more base choices. But rather than expand their meager number of model choices they have cut some out & limited others. Cut out models are things like no new or old 17" Mac laptops. The limited item is the premium priced Mac Pro. Just as it had been rumored by all appearances the Mac Pro was not scheduled to be carried any more.

And to think the main reason that Steve Jobs gave for canceling the Mac Clones when he came back was because the Clones were only interested in the top end of the Mac market, while Apple wanted them to build up the low end of the Mac market. Steve Jobs introduced the iMac at the low end of the Mac market.Much of the time has been spent not doing a very good job of supporting the high end of the Mac market. Now with the current model deletions in place the high end has been to some cut off but to others just severely limited. Apple needs to restart the high end Mac Clone market. But we all know how far that would go.

We need more Mac choices, not less. Optical drives can always be taken out & replaced with a second drive HDD or SDD.

IzzyJG99
Jun 27, 2012, 04:20 PM
Bummer. I've got ghosting/imprinting on my iMac. I had the logic board replaced a year ago. Ever since there is a nice thumb print on the screen where the foolish apple tech touched part of the screen. I've not had the time to go the 2 hours to my nearest Apple Store again to get it fixed.

speedyg256
Jun 27, 2012, 04:22 PM
And this is why I learned not to be an early adaptor since iPhone 4's antenna gate :rolleyes:

Hmmm... my 4 that I've had since day one still works just fine ;)

activ8
Jun 27, 2012, 04:22 PM
That could be a problem if it ghosted the porn site you were looking at for too long.

That wouldn't happen. I only stay on a porn site for 10 seconds.

gatortpk
Jun 27, 2012, 04:23 PM
My iPad 2 does that too...

My iPhone 4S and iPad (3rd generation) doesn't do that. And both were my first Retina IPS displays. Even though the iPad 2 isn't Retina, it is still an IPS display.

I assume this is still rare though. (because this is the first I've heard of it and mobile IPS displays have been in use for a while now). I'm just glad to finally see IPS in a MacBook Pro!

pacalis
Jun 27, 2012, 04:23 PM
A little off topic, but I think the most disappointing part about this new Mac is the lack of a CD drive. I would be willing to take my chances with the new retina display, but I really don't want a notebook without a disc drive. It's stupid. I thought that was what the Air was for...

Ya, it's dumb. Any idea when Apple's releasing the thunderbolt 8-track player accessory?

markcres
Jun 27, 2012, 04:24 PM
It isn't a defect...its Magical !

tom vilsack
Jun 27, 2012, 04:25 PM
It will go away when the glue drys ;-)

ps: still laughing about porn site ghosting earlier comment

heisetax
Jun 27, 2012, 04:30 PM
You're aware that physical media is pretty much dead and none of the new Macs (including Mac Pro) will come standard with an optical drive within a couple years?

For one thing you're assuming that Apple will keep carrying the Mac Pro. They already have missed this upgrade cycle. What makes you think that they will actually relent & develop a new Mac Pro?

I was ready to replace my 1st gen Mac Pro with 2 optical drives in it with a new one. My optical drives are used at least a half a doze times a week. Unlike you I purchase all of my music & movies on CDs & DVDs. In the last month or so I've added at least 20 movies & 20 music cds. My 47" screen is connected to my Mac Pro along with 3 30" displays & a 28" unit. I prefer to watch the movies through my Mac Pro's DVD unit. Then I have the choice of which screen I want to use. My Mac Pro is a much better all in one than my laptop is. And my laptop does a much better job than these new laptops are doing. Many of us do not want to add an optical drive to those many items we now have to carry.

Codyak
Jun 27, 2012, 04:31 PM
A little off topic, but I think the most disappointing part about this new Mac is the lack of a CD drive. I would be willing to take my chances with the new retina display, but I really don't want a notebook without a disc drive. It's stupid. I thought that was what the Air was for...

They still sell the older Macbook Pros if you really want it. :rolleyes:

velocityg4
Jun 27, 2012, 04:35 PM
It is a shame this is happening.

It is strange, Screen issues seem to always be Apple's weak point. I don't know why this is. You would think after year of screen issues on earlier Apple products, and the fact that it's the screen that is, by it's very nature, in your face, they would do everything they can do to make sure future products do not suffer any noticeable flaws.

And yet, screen problems are almost guaranteed now on a new product.
It's a shame.
Every manufacturer has display problems from on small percentage of units. It is just something that gets no media attention on cheap POS computers. Apple with its design elegance, high prices and heavy media attention just gets knit picked.

shokunin
Jun 27, 2012, 04:37 PM
The source of that ghosted images belongs to Lloyd Chambers at http://www.macperformanceguide.com. The source you referred to is referencing their source as Lloyd's website too.

GREEN4U
Jun 27, 2012, 04:38 PM
The retina Macbook Pro is completely overrated in my opinion. How many times has Jonny Ive gotten in front of the camera to say how "it's the most remarkable thing they've ever designed?" Every keynote for the past 10 years, that's how many times. After a while it gets old and meaningless.

Anyways, the rMBP is way too heavy, way too expensive, doesn't even have a kensington lock slot, and now it's ghosting? It's hard to imagine people are buying this thing.

Abstract
Jun 27, 2012, 04:41 PM
Oooh, good to know.

Thank you, guinea pigs. ;)

Tonewheel
Jun 27, 2012, 04:43 PM
Saw one at the Apple Store yesterday. Love the form factor and thinner screen, but wasn't WOWED by the retina display.

Now, where are those Mac Pro updates???

----------

The retina Macbook Pro is completely overrated in my opinion. How many times has Jonny Ive gotten in front of the camera to say how "it's the most remarkable thing they've ever designed?" Every keynote for the past 10 years, that's how many times. After a while it gets old and meaningless.

Anyways, the rMBP is way too heavy, way too expensive, doesn't even have a kensington lock slot, and now it's ghosting? It's hard to imagine people are buying this thing.

Totally agree about Ive. When Ambien can't sleep, it takes him.

AlanFord
Jun 27, 2012, 04:44 PM
Thats why I never buy new things when they just release. And dont have intentions to buy, cause even in technical point of view new rMBP is great, it still have some flaw. In technical point, much more testing needs to be done, components are integrated almost as one unit, not changeable, and in software perspective there are still no much apps supporting such display.
Okey, the point: These are things Apple cant afford in point of reliability and image. Its a very pricey machine.
They must take care much more on quality control.

deannnnn
Jun 27, 2012, 04:44 PM
Haven't noticed it on my rMBP purchased on day 1.

Rogifan
Jun 27, 2012, 04:46 PM
well let's see how many tech sites pick up on this (and they will with it being front page news on apple blog/rumor sites) and turn it into screen gate. And all the fandroid and M$ posters will chime in with how the rMBP is overrated, too expensive, can't be upgraded, missing feature x, y, z, etc. :rolleyes:

ixodes
Jun 27, 2012, 04:47 PM
Well. Looks like the first generation curse still exists.

I'm beginning to think that Apple has all but abandoned their once exemplary testing and quality control procedures.

Recently I received not one, or two, but three heavily scratched new BTO MBP's right out of their sealed boxes.

It's a very poor reflection on Apple. The scratches were well over 30mm long each, there were six, all of which where about 6mm deep.

When the genius looked at it, (I wanted Apple to confirm these before I shipped it back as directed) he was visibly shocked. Trained to keep their composure, and act like it's the first time they've ever seen problems, he struggled not to gasp.

Anyway, it's certainly not a confidence inspiring experience. It makes one wonder just what the heck is going on at Apple.

When they ignore things like this, while placing the computer in it's plastic bag, and packing it in the cardboard shipping carton, I swear they must be looking the other way.

Or maybe the person was day dreaming about jumping off the roof at Foxconn :eek:

Rogifan
Jun 27, 2012, 04:49 PM
Not this again! I was plagued with image retention for years with my 24" iMac back in the day. Apple told me, after two LCD replacements, to just live with it in the end.

For a £1k+ machine I think it's disgusting that people should have to put up with displays like this.

Just curious how many people are putting up with displays like this on the rMBP. These days if one person has an issue it's front page news on all the tech sites and eventually turns into [insert name here]-gate. :rolleyes:

ericinboston
Jun 27, 2012, 04:50 PM
I would have to say this is a BIG issue for Apple...regardless if it's 10% of the population or 50%...the whole point of this new Pro Retina was, um, the screen. If it's got a manufacturing defect, Apple's gonna have a lot of returns/replacements.

Apple's not going to go out of business of course...or have its reputation permanently damaged...but people plunking down $2000+ for a laptop, especially for a high rez screen, are going to be really unhappy and likely return the item and wait it out for the next release cycle.

This is a hardware issue folks...not going to be fixed with a BIOS patch or some OS update. That means thousands more likely are busted and people are just going to wait until a formal "new release" of the Retina Macs come out.

masterhiggins
Jun 27, 2012, 04:50 PM
[laughs at early adopters]

charlituna
Jun 27, 2012, 04:51 PM
This hasn't happened to me. I wonder how many machines have been affected and how many many machines are out there.

Indeed. The numbers always come out to smaller groups than it sounds.

All tech has issues when it first comes out. Apple is more than excellent about exchange defective units. I've returned iPads, phones, computers sometimes as long as a month after I got it with no issues from the managers when it was new tech

eyebex
Jun 27, 2012, 04:51 PM
That could be a problem if it ghosted the porn site you were looking at for too long.

Nonsense. This would be a bonus. Porn without bandwidth usage! :)

Thunderhawks
Jun 27, 2012, 04:53 PM
How do you check if your screen is affected?

Have you been wondering what the proper usage is when referring to the state of something? Is it "Affect" or "Effect". The easiest way to clear these often confused words are by knowing their true definition.

Affect (verb) To influence something without causing it to happen.

Effect (noun) Is the result that was accomplished or to directly cause something.

from

www.AffectvsEffect.org

Codyak
Jun 27, 2012, 04:53 PM
[laughs at early adopters]

Without us early adopters, how would you or Apple know there were any widespread issues?? :eek:

Thunderhawks
Jun 27, 2012, 04:57 PM
Does the ghost look like Steve?

GREEN4U
Jun 27, 2012, 04:59 PM
It's a very poor reflection on Apple. The scratches were well over 30mm long each, there were six, all of which where about 6mm deep.


LOL. Are you sure you know your measurements? 6mm is over half a centimeter, which more like a gouge...or scratch from a big cat. In fact I don't even think the MBP unibody material is 6mm deep. If it was a 6mm scratch you'd see the inside of your computer! LOL. I call BS.

ixodes
Jun 27, 2012, 05:01 PM
Here's a thread at Apple with further information, observations and the like.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4034848?start=0&tstart=0

bedifferent
Jun 27, 2012, 05:01 PM
The kinks aren't going to be worked out until we get a brand new screen technology that's idiot proof or Apple starts dumping more money into QC. All Apple displays have been a lottery for years.

You either accept what you get, or go through the painful process of swapping it, possibly more than once, until you get one you can live with. Just be thankful that you only have to lug a laptop back to the store and not a 27" iMac or Thunderbolt Display.

Very true. It didn't used to be that way. When Apple had the previous generation CCFL LCD's in 20/23/30" they were phenomenal. I had a 23" that lasted me 8 years, and a 30" that lasted 7 (I only replaced it with two 24" LED LCD's).

Ever since they started selling stripped down iMac LED LCD panels with the 24" model a few years ago it was a crap shoot. I purchased two for my Mac Pro, aside from the cables being too short and having to spend ~$60 on Belkin USB/Mini DP extension cables, it took ~ 5 displays until I had two that didn't suffer from banding, bleeding, dead pixels and/or uneven color tones.

TimTheEnchanter
Jun 27, 2012, 05:03 PM
.... The easiest way to clear these often confused words are by knowing their true definition....


Or is it proper to state, "is by knowing their true definitions"

:rolleyes:

The bigger question is, why nitpick someones grammar on casual forums?

brentsg
Jun 27, 2012, 05:04 PM
Image persistence has been around forever.

It may be due to the smaller size of the pixels themselves, less liquid in a given area - takes longer to "rotate".

Perhaps retina displays are limited in how much current can be put across the thinner matrix. (smaller pixels - smaller conductors - lower current threshold)

It's not unique to the retina, however.

Every tech has a drawback, plasma - burn in, LCD - persistence, OLED - Mura.

Usually, LCD persistence is only temporary, and will go away after a while, not quite the same when it comes to CRT, Plasma or OLED.

Actually most plasma image retention has little to do with uneven wear, which would lean toward permanent. Generally it's caused by a residual electrical charge in the cells and it goes away relatively quickly.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 05:05 PM
So a few units have a defect covered under the standard warranty ? And this is news ? :eek:

Eidorian
Jun 27, 2012, 05:08 PM
So a few units have a defect covered under the standard warranty ? And this is news ? :eek:Well...it is Apple. :rolleyes:

Otherwise, I have to agree that the signs might point to the technology and hardware itself. It was painful playing games on my PVA-based iMac Core Duo but damn it was a fine panel in every other sense.

ixodes
Jun 27, 2012, 05:10 PM
The bigger question is, why nitpick someones grammar on casual forums?
I could not agree more :)

Speaking for myself, when I compose a post I do so fairly rapidly, and only give it a cursory look before submission.

After all, it's not like doing my thesis in college where it _did_ make a difference.

In fact, to be honest, of the several forums (totally unrelated to Apple) I participate in, this is the only one where the fanboys are so self absorbed and narcissistic that they critique everything from a simple typo, to grammar.

Poor lost souls.... :eek:

Lancer
Jun 27, 2012, 05:12 PM
Yes bring on the retina iMac LOL

Of course if you're on the cutting edge you might get cut, bleed or something like that, yes the next gen will be better or maybe there is a manufacturing issue to be worked out?

This is yes another reason I'll be getting the 2012 iMac which is more likely to be sorted, just like the G5 PM I have which was the last model before they when to multi-core CPUs and just before they went Intel. The 3Gs iPhone I got was 6 months before the 4 came out.

I'm sure Apple has this under control, it will be interesting to see just how many have this problem, it's like the iPhone antenna issue all over again.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 05:16 PM
I'm sure Apple has this under control, it will be interesting to see just how many have this problem, it's like the iPhone antenna issue all over again.

Uh ? Except this is covered under the warranty and so no one will have this problem after they've walked into an Apple store/called Apple care and get their unit fixed/exchanged ? :rolleyes:

roadbloc
Jun 27, 2012, 05:20 PM
Another Apple product, another screen issue.

Asclepio
Jun 27, 2012, 05:21 PM
The iphone 4 antenna gate still present.

doobybiggs
Jun 27, 2012, 05:22 PM
if this is widespread this will be a retina killer for a long time

jamesnajera
Jun 27, 2012, 05:23 PM
I wonder if this will happen with IGZO?

ixodes
Jun 27, 2012, 05:38 PM
While some people may wish to make a big deal out of this, and predict or act like it's the first instance of a larger problem, I can assure you it's not. This is quite likely nothing more than a bad batch of display panels, that will all be replaced under warranty.

The only thing Apple is guilty of, is taking so many years to catch up with the other premier laptops like ThinkPads, that have had IPS (in-plane switching) displays since 1996. The only difference between the hi-res IPS displays used on professional workstation ThinkPads and the new MBP is the higher resolution that Apple insisted on including.

IPS has been around for years. In 1995 Samsung perfected the optical patterning technique that enabled a multi-domain LCD to be used in mass quantities.

rhinosrcool
Jun 27, 2012, 05:45 PM
It is a shame this is happening.

It is strange, Screen issues seem to always be Apple's weak point. I don't know why this is. You would think after year of screen issues on earlier Apple products, and the fact that it's the screen that is, by it's very nature, in your face, they would do everything they can do to make sure future products do not suffer any noticeable flaws.

And yet, screen problems are almost guaranteed now on a new product.
It's a shame.

If the Apple fanbois didn't accept these issues, Apple would do something. As it is, they don't really fix the issues (e.g., Imacs and iPad 3); they just wait for the fanbois to say it's not a big deal.

To have these issues with something that's touted as the most beautiful screen and to cost so much is ridiculous for a company that has $100 billion in reserve.

blackburn
Jun 27, 2012, 05:47 PM
My iPad 2 does the same. My was replaced (wouldn't turn on) and the replacement after a while started to do the same.

Looks like as the panel ages it goes slower, in fast games it gets ghosting to a point that makes my head hurt. But since I don't really use the ipad for games I don't care much.

mixel
Jun 27, 2012, 05:56 PM
I have similar ghosting on a 2008 iMac 24" .. It's sort of annoying but you learn to live with it. It only started happening last year though.. Does make me wonder if all the rMBPs could deteriorate to do the same. Scary.

Thunderhawks
Jun 27, 2012, 06:03 PM
Or is it proper to state, "is by knowing their true definitions"

:rolleyes:

The bigger question is, why nitpick someones grammar on casual forums?

As I posted this was from a website and funny enough they can't do things right either:-)

To answer the bigger question:

Why is it wrong trying to point out the incorrect usage of words?

Are all people afraid to learn something?

English is actually not my native language and I make plenty of mistakes, but I do like to learn the correct usage of words and spelling in any language.

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2012, 06:11 PM
That could be a problem if it ghosted the porn site you were looking at for too long.

My favorite porn sites have lots of motion, so not an issue.

hugodrax
Jun 27, 2012, 06:14 PM
This is why it is always best to wait 6 months on new Apple products before buying.

rhinosrcool
Jun 27, 2012, 06:24 PM
This is why it is always best to wait 6 months on new Apple products before buying.

Nonsense! Still, the iMacs and iPads being released suffer from serious screen issues. Of course, after a few months, then, so many say that they have learned to live with it. If you can't live with it, you have ocd. Same bs.

agentjonny
Jun 27, 2012, 06:29 PM
A little off topic, but I think the most disappointing part about this new Mac is the lack of a CD drive. I would be willing to take my chances with the new retina display, but I really don't want a notebook without a disc drive. It's stupid. I thought that was what the Air was for...

yeh, I'd totally get one if I could get it with a tape deck.

smallnshort247
Jun 27, 2012, 06:30 PM
If I had the money and if I could find one in stock, I'd buy one in a second. However, I'll just make myself sound cool so...

This is why I don't buy the first batch of new models. Sucks for all you beta testers. :rolleyes: :cool:

uknowimright
Jun 27, 2012, 06:40 PM
well let's see how many tech sites pick up on this (and they will with it being front page news on apple blog/rumor sites) and turn it into screen gate. And all the fandroid and M$ posters will chime in with how the rMBP is overrated, too expensive, can't be upgraded, missing feature x, y, z, etc. :rolleyes:

fandroid and M$?

thanks for confirming you are still in high school

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 06:54 PM
If the Apple fanbois didn't accept these issues, Apple would do something. As it is, they don't really fix the issues

Wait, how is replacing/fixing the display not fixing the issue exactly ? And people going to Apple stores/calling Apple care to get the display warrantied is "accepting the issue" ... how ?

Do people even read the article ?

un10101
Jun 27, 2012, 07:03 PM
A little off topic, but I think the most disappointing part about this new Mac is the lack of a CD drive. I would be willing to take my chances with the new retina display, but I really don't want a notebook without a disc drive. It's stupid. I thought that was what the Air was for...

If you think about it, the majority of people never use the optical drive in their computer. Most people just opt to buy the external for when they need it. That being said, there are people who actually use the drive for customer projects if that is their job, and that could pose a small problem, but one that is easily remedied by the external SuperDrive.

mrmarts
Jun 27, 2012, 07:04 PM
Hey guys how do you check for screen ghosting?

Stevamundo
Jun 27, 2012, 07:04 PM
Maybe Apple is being hunted! Maybe the stupid ghost hunters that my sisters like to watch will do an exorcist on Apple equipment! LOL

Sorry, but I couldn't resist. :D

blackhand1001
Jun 27, 2012, 07:05 PM
This absolutely has to do with the ips panel. IPS panels are the most prone to image retention and stuck pixels. The least likely are VA panels (haven't seen many in mobile devices, they should be used especially s-pva which in my opinion has a superior picture and viewing angles than ips) as their pixels are off by default and charge is applied to open them up to display white which is the opposite of ips and TN which apply charge to pixels to display black.

All the top tier lcd televisions use VA panels (s-pva being the best) rather than ips because for media and everything but printwork they are vastly superior to IPS. VA panels are also quite good with printwork as well. EIZO uses them in a lot of their expensive monitors. Much better than TN and better contrast than both tn and IPS.

WestonHarvey1
Jun 27, 2012, 07:05 PM
Wait, how is replacing/fixing the display not fixing the issue exactly ? And people going to Apple stores/calling Apple care to get the display warrantied is "accepting the issue" ... how ?

Do people even read the article ?

They're not going to fix the issue. They're going to give you random replacements until you either get lucky, or get fed up and just accept it. It's not nearly as nice as Apple fixing the root cause and removing the defect from their production.

They never fixed the iMac yellow screens, just unboxed a yellow banded one 3 weeks ago. New iPad has been on the market for 3 months now and the screens are still a total crapshoot.

Brentnal
Jun 27, 2012, 07:32 PM
At least this makes a change from the usual Apple Brown Stain(TM) which accompanies most of their latest products.

satyrica
Jun 27, 2012, 07:35 PM
Hey guys how do you check for screen ghosting?

Turn off the lights, and look at the screen while chanting "bloody mary" three times...

CapnJackGig
Jun 27, 2012, 07:39 PM
Another reason why I never ever buy the first iteration of anything new from Apple.

Thunderbird
Jun 27, 2012, 07:57 PM
It's the ghost of Steve Jobs coming back to haunt people who use their MBP for watching porn.

kazmac
Jun 27, 2012, 08:09 PM
"You mean the retina display is so accurate that you can see ghosts?"

-Derp

I love this forum LOL...I, too, see dead people on my iPad 3. :D

On a serious note, I really hope those who have problems get their machines fixed/replaced as soon as possible.

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2012, 08:17 PM
I love this forum LOL...I, too, see dead people on my iPad 3. :D

On a serious note, I really hope those who have problems get their machines fixed/replaced as soon as possible.

LOL - but I feel sorry for people who don't understand the reference. (Mainly because they missed a very good movie.)

MacMan1620
Jun 27, 2012, 08:23 PM
I still LOL at the people on the iPad forum who have gone through 8 - 10 iPads because their display isn't perfect. Now it will be rMBP.
It's because people are too ****ing picky. One small imperfection or tint and the assume their device is broken.

CherokeeRose
Jun 27, 2012, 08:24 PM
Like this is really good for my OCD, sitting in the dark watching a ghost. Admittedly when you pay the bucks you want perfection. Go for it.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 08:24 PM
They're not going to fix the issue. They're going to give you random replacements until you either get lucky, or get fed up and just accept it. It's not nearly as nice as Apple fixing the root cause and removing the defect from their production.

What makes you think there's some root cause beyond yield problems with screens ? :rolleyes:

Do you know something the rest of us including the guy who wrote the article doesn't ?

MacMan1620
Jun 27, 2012, 08:26 PM
My ipad 2 does this also. The apple "genius" told me that it is not a known issue and because its a year old its out of warranty so they wouldn't replace it.

Then I guess you'll have to pay for the repair.

----------

It is a shame this is happening.

It is strange, Screen issues seem to always be Apple's weak point. I don't know why this is. You would think after year of screen issues on earlier Apple products, and the fact that it's the screen that is, by it's very nature, in your face, they would do everything they can do to make sure future products do not suffer any noticeable flaws.

And yet, screen problems are almost guaranteed now on a new product.
It's a shame.
Funny, apple doesn't make displays. Samsung and LG do. Funny how no one blames them.

Stridder44
Jun 27, 2012, 08:27 PM
Well. Looks like the first generation curse still exists.

I'm still considering one though. I just have to try it in person before I make a decision. This wouldn't affect my decision as it'll be sorted out in time.


Can't say I'm surprised at all.

blackhand1001
Jun 27, 2012, 08:39 PM
Those might have been PVA based panels, known for ghosting issues. They are better now and have some nice blacks.

Older pva panels had ghosting (because they had slow response times) is not the same as image retention. Image retention is most common on IPS displays. I actually wish the retina macbook pro used a VA panel. I think they look better than ips panels. My dell 2408wfp is much nicer than the u2410 I returned and the u2412/u2711/thunderbolt displays I have used.

weaponEX
Jun 27, 2012, 08:39 PM
As long as mine doesn't do this

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2012, 08:40 PM
It's because people are too ****ing picky. One small imperfection or tint and the assume their device is broken.

Like this is really good for my OCD, sitting in the dark watching a ghost. Admittedly when you pay the bucks you want perfection. Go for it.

If Apple wants to pretend to wear the mantle of "premium brand", then Apple needs to stand behind the product (and improve the quality control so that the former is rarely necessary).

Step up to the plate, Tim, or go back to the dugout.

ericinboston
Jun 27, 2012, 08:42 PM
My ipad 2 does this also. The apple "genius" told me that it is not a known issue and because its a year old its out of warranty so they wouldn't replace it.

If you paid for it with a credit card, most likely your credit card extends the warranty by up to 1 year. You should contact your credit card immediately and ask about the details.

KnightWRX
Jun 27, 2012, 08:48 PM
If Apple wants to pretend to wear the mantle of "premium brand", then Apple needs to stand behind the product (and improve the quality control so that the former is rarely necessary).

Step up to the plate, Tim, or go back to the dugout.

Apple could start by having a 2012 level LCD quality assurance program. Their ******** "it's within tolerance to have a couple of bright pixels" policy is dung. Even Dell has moved to a "no bright pixel" policy on their LCDs.

ericinboston
Jun 27, 2012, 08:50 PM
Then I guess you'll have to pay for the repair.

----------


Funny, apple doesn't make displays. Samsung and LG do. Funny how no one blames them.

Aren't you Mr. Helpful tonight...nice replies.

As per your display beef, um, once Apple slaps their logo on it and sells it, it's Apple's problem. Every vendor (Apple or Sony for example) works with the underlying technology provider (in this case Samsung or LG) to SPEC OUT what is to be done, agree on limitations & potential risk/problems, agree to monetary terms, agree to defect terms, agree to production timing terms and more.

So no...blaming Samsung or LG for Apple's problems is not correct. If/when Apple decides to look into this problem and internally assign blame, Samsung may or may not have to honor their numerous "terms". If the ghosting is due to, for example, Apple's assembly process where the assemblers are not adhering to the assembly process, then that's a beef between Apple and the assembly plant...not Samsung.

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2012, 08:52 PM
Aren't you Mr. Helpful tonight...nice replies.

As per your display beef, um, once Apple slaps their logo on it and sells it, it's Apple's problem. Every vendor (Apple or Sony for example) works with the underlying technology provider (in this case Samsung or LG) to SPEC OUT what is to be done, agree on limitations & potential risk/problems, agree to monetary terms, agree to defect terms, agree to production timing terms and more.

So no...blaming Samsung or LG for Apple's problems is not correct. If/when Apple decides to look into this problem and internally assign blame, Samsung may or may not have to honor their numerous "terms". If the ghosting is due to, for example, Apple's assembly process where the assemblers are not adhering to the assembly process, then that's a beef between Apple and the assembly plant...not Samsung.

But is it still an "engineering marvel" after these faults show up?

Inquiring minds want to know....

blackhand1001
Jun 27, 2012, 09:01 PM
Apple could start by having a 2012 level LCD quality assurance program. Their ******** "it's within tolerance to have a couple of bright pixels" policy is dung. Even Dell has moved to a "no bright pixel" policy on their LCDs.

The problem is apple is known to buy binned parts. (don't pass QC completely) There 1800 dollar 15 inch macbook pro uses a binned gpu (512mb out of 1024mb with half of it disabled because it failed to pass the hardware check). The mac mini gpu option is even worse with 75% of the ram binned. It only has 256mb enabled out of 1024mb. That means up to 75 percent of the ram is bad. I have no doubt they also are buying binned lcd panels. While not all the binned lcd panels may have issues they are not as guaranteed to be free of defects like grade A/A- panels are like dell uses in the ultrasharp line. Apple quite frankly is using a lot of hardware parts in their lineup that even budget machines would be afraid to use. I haven't seen a dedicated gpu in a machine with 256mb of ram for several years other than the mac mini and pretty much every laptop with dedicated graphics has 1gb. Even 500-600 dollar machines. Its unacceptable that apple is using binned parts in a machine that costs nearly 2 grand.

NorEaster
Jun 27, 2012, 09:19 PM
Then I guess you'll have to pay for the repair.

----------


Funny, apple doesn't make displays. Samsung and LG do. Funny how no one blames them.

Funny how when retina displays were announced, everyone was claiming how innovative Apple was and didn't want to give any credit to Samsung and LG. And now that there are some defects, folks want to assign the blame to Samsung and LG? :eek:

You fanboys can't have it both ways.

----------

The problem is apple is known to buy binned parts. (don't pass QC completely) There 1800 dollar 15 inch macbook pro uses a binned gpu (512mb out of 1024mb with half of it disabled because it failed to pass the hardware check). The mac mini gpu option is even worse with 75% of the ram binned. It only has 256mb enabled out of 1024mb. That means up to 75 percent of the ram is bad. I have no doubt they also are buying binned lcd panels. While not all the binned lcd panels may have issues they are not as guaranteed to be free of defects like grade A/A- panels are like dell uses in the ultrasharp line. Apple quite frankly is using a lot of hardware parts in their lineup that even budget machines would be afraid to use. I haven't seen a dedicated gpu in a machine with 256mb of ram for several years other than the mac mini and pretty much every laptop with dedicated graphics has 1gb. Even 500-600 dollar machines. Its unacceptable that apple is using binned parts in a machine that costs nearly 2 grand.

Interesting...but can you cite a reference that states Apple is actually using binned parts? This is the first I've heard of this.

HowEver
Jun 27, 2012, 09:48 PM
There is absolutely no image retention on my MacBook Pro with Retina Display.

There was none of the half dozen I looked at in-store.

If it comes up, I'll let you know.. but for now, a non-issue and non-starter, at least for me.

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2012, 09:49 PM
Funny how when retina displays were announced, everyone was claiming how innovative Apple was and didn't want to give any credit to Samsung and LG. And now that there are some defects, folks want to assign the blame to Samsung and LG? :eek:

You fanboys can't have it both ways.

LOL


Interesting...but can you cite a reference that states Apple is actually using binned parts? This is the first I've heard of this.

While I agree with your challenge for corroborating evidence, "binning" has been around for a long time. Intel doesn't build wafers with "3.0 GHz" CPUs and other wafers with the same CPU at "2.4 GHz".

After they're built and tested, some run faster and some run slower and are put in the corresponding "bins". Similarly, although all the chips are meant to be quad-core - some only have two or three fully functional cores, and are put in the "dual core" bin. Some don't have all of the cache working, and are put in the "Pentium" bin (once called the "Celeron" bin).

"Binning" is not a bad thing - it's a useful tool to lower overall costs by selling less capable chips for less, and more capable chips for more. If you buy something with a "binned" chip with some of the cores or memory disabled - you're not buying damaged goods. You're getting a deal because the silicon vendor is selling silicon with certain features disabled - but it is fully functional for the advertised set of features.

If Intel sells a CPU with 8 MiB of cache for $300, and a CPU with 4 MiB of cache for $200 - do you care if the 4 MiB $200 CPU is cut from the same wafer as the $300 CPU, but has been discounted because some of the cache has been disabled due to defects?

tim100
Jun 27, 2012, 09:52 PM
There is absolutely no image retention on my MacBook Pro with Retina Display.

There was none of the half dozen I looked at in-store.

If it comes up, I'll let you know.. but for now, a non-issue and non-starter, at least for me.

under regular usage the ghosting issue will not be seen. there are specific instructions in this forum setting the wallpaper to dark grey and leaving an image on for 30 mins, then the issue presents itself.

iChrist
Jun 27, 2012, 10:02 PM
I have an open case with Apple care regarding a different display issue that I know a few people have also had. I had a small consistent light spot on my Retina display (others have reported several). The spot isn't due to ghosting and does not go away. It looks like a small 1/8 inch light spot and its more apparent at certain angles and against a lighter background.

I've already spoken with Apple Care and someone from the engineering department. They're very interested in the case. They're sending a replacement unit, but are treating defective units differently than new sales, so the replacements ship within 1-1.5 weeks rather than a whole month.

----------



If you upgrade the non-retina to the same specs as the retina, it's $200 more and you don't get the retina screen.

This is not true. There is no such phenomenon and I doubt an apple engineer would actually talk to you. Really.

pearvsapple
Jun 27, 2012, 10:22 PM
Thank you for beta testing the Retina display on the Mac. And you too, iPhone 4s users!

AidenShaw
Jun 27, 2012, 10:23 PM
This is not true. There is no such phenomenon and I doubt an apple engineer would actually talk to you. Really.

Yes, pretend that it doesn't exist....

http://www.ostrichheadinsand.com/images/ostrich_head_in_sand.jpg

charlituna
Jun 27, 2012, 11:16 PM
Unfortunately as Apple have been built up as the company where everything just works in addition to the fashion factor, and you price accordingly, people expect perfection.


yep. It doesn't help that they don't get simple facts of life like all tech has issues during the first couple of months of existence. Or that the issue could be caused by something relatively easy to fix or something you brought over transferring data from an older system. Perhaps not so much in this case but definitely with things like the iPhone and iPad. Although I did see a friend who transferred his user from an old ibook and now his 27 inch keeps looking for his dial up modem

----------

Only in USA. I doubt local Apple web stores or physical retailers will promptly accept the problem and ship another unit just because a neurotic consumer is whining about this insignificant issue.

Some countries have very strict consumer protection laws that would require just such a replacement. They might not have to put that person on the top of the list but they would have to replace it if the customer isn't happy. Or depending on the laws, issue a full refund.

----------

Apple care 4tw - or does that not cover it? Then you would have to "accidently" drop it since that is covered.

not if the iPad is out of warranty. if it is just the standard limited warranty or the pre March regular version, drops aren't covered. you have to have bought apple care plus for damage covered.

G51989
Jun 27, 2012, 11:19 PM
I don't see this as a big deal, its the first generation of a new screen type for this line of laptops, it happens. Errors occur.


Anyone remember the early LCDs from the late 90s? Random dead pixles right out of the box :D

Could be worse

blue22
Jun 28, 2012, 12:02 AM
I don't see this as a big deal, its the first generation of a new screen type for this line of laptops, it happens. Errors occur.


Anyone remember the early LCDs from the late 90s? Random dead pixles right out of the box :D

Could be worse

I agree that it could indeed be worse. But $2200+ worth of "it could be worse" is a rough one to endure. ;)

G51989
Jun 28, 2012, 12:12 AM
I agree that it could indeed be worse. But $2200+ worth of "it could be worse" is a rough one to endure. ;)

I once remember my dad spending FIVE THOUSAND dollars on a early 19 LCD monitor when I was...much smaller than now. Random dead Pixls on the first one that came in, I think 3 or 5 more died over a span of 5 years.


New products, errors happen. Simple as that.

mentaluproar
Jun 28, 2012, 12:23 AM
my iPad never had a ghosting problem, but my 24" iMac...THAT was annoying.:mad:

MNT
Jun 28, 2012, 12:36 AM
This isn't a bug or something related to it being a first generation of a new product. My latest-generation iMac with the 27" IPS screen does the same thing. It's not serious, and it goes away after just a few seconds generally. How hot the machine is running does affect how much ghosting happens.

Every time Apple releases a new product, tech blogs seize upon whatever reports they can find from users of the new device. What is now retina display ghosting was Antennagate was dead pixels on cinema displays, the story never really changes.

MH01
Jun 28, 2012, 12:39 AM
And this is why I learned not to be an early adaptor since iPhone 4's antenna gate :rolleyes:

The legend of Apple rev A products was born a long long time before the iPhone ;)

MNT
Jun 28, 2012, 12:40 AM
Hey guys how do you check for screen ghosting?

Look at your screen. If it looks fine, it's fine.

blue22
Jun 28, 2012, 12:45 AM
I once remember my dad spending FIVE THOUSAND dollars on a early 19 LCD monitor when I was...much smaller than now. Random dead Pixls on the first one that came in, I think 3 or 5 more died over a span of 5 years.


New products, errors happen. Simple as that.

5g's? Good God Man!!!

But I hear you. That's why it's always wise to hold out 2-3 months from the initial announcement of a new product from Apple as by then the vast majority of the manufacturing kinks should be worked out by that point reducing ones chances of picking up a lemon.

Still, if you're an early adopter of this rMBP and had to wait 3-4 weeks to get your hands on your new system it kinda sucks if you have to return it almost immediately to address any fabrication kinks. The price you may have to pay for being "bleeding edge" I suppose.

MH01
Jun 28, 2012, 12:55 AM
This isn't a bug or something related to it being a first generation of a new product. My latest-generation iMac with the 27" IPS screen does the same thing. It's not serious, and it goes away after just a few seconds generally. How hot the machine is running does affect how much ghosting happens.

Every time Apple releases a new product, tech blogs seize upon whatever reports they can find from users of the new device. What is now retina display ghosting was Antennagate was dead pixels on cinema displays, the story never really changes.

You may find this panel is new.... Being first generation. Though more importantly, you are fine with your iMac ghosting?!?!?! That's a serious defect!

Konrad
Jun 28, 2012, 01:07 AM
The new MBP I just bought does not have any of those problems. It also sports the Ethernet, FW, has a drive and it was only $1,100 flat. And I don't have to call the annoying people at apple.

Seems like the risk factor of costly hassle is too high to deal with this product right now. Moving data, driving, parking, waiting in line, packing, unpacking, shipping, calling, waiting, time allocation..Not worth it. Unless one has nothing better to do.

nicuni
Jun 28, 2012, 01:33 AM
You're aware that physical media is pretty much dead and none of the new Macs (including Mac Pro) will come standard with an optical drive within a couple years?

I am aware, but that doesn't mean that I don't still have games and media on optical media that you cannot legitimately use without the disc. Yes, you can make disc images, but you have to either download them from the net illegally or have the disc to create it. Either way, it's not like the Mac notebooks are the best for playing graphic intensive games, especially the new games. But the retina display would be nice for those beautiful new games, but you still don't get the ability to have more than a gig of graphic memory, which for some next gen games is the just the minimum requirement.
Alas if I were rich I could just get an awesome Mac pro with all the upgrades...
I wish that they would make a touch screen retina macbook. It would be a bit unnecessary since you have the trackpad, but it would be cool I think.

mvdb
Jun 28, 2012, 01:42 AM
It is strange, Screen issues seem to always be Apple's weak point. I don't know why this is. You would think after year of screen issues on earlier Apple products, and the fact that it's the screen that is, by it's very nature, in your face, they would do everything they can do to make sure future products do not suffer any noticeable flaws.
there are three simple reasons for this:

1. Apple releases attract more attention.
2. Non-Apple users tend to care less about such flaws.
3. Many HP/Lenovo/Dell/Sony/etc.. come with screens with terrible quality to begin with, and people don't care because the laptop was cheap.

----------

And this is why I learned not to be an early adaptor since iPhone 4's antenna gate :rolleyes:
I bought the first unibody MacBook Pro upon release, and it has worked without flaw until today.

I bought an iPhone 4 upon release and it came with a yellow screen. They replaced it without a question.

If you buy a retina MacBook Pro today, nothing stops you from swapping it out 10 months from now under warranty. So I don't really see the point of waiting...

baryon
Jun 28, 2012, 02:01 AM
Good thing they're replacing the affected machines. No one wanted to replace my faulty 9600M graphics card when I got the late 2008 Unibody MacBook Pro!

Since 1984
Jun 28, 2012, 02:43 AM
I know that product is flying off the shelves. Of course it's blasting through the pipeline in China, too. But, somewhere along the way you'd think that someone would have noticed an issue like this, especially since it's the biggest "new" feature of the MacBook Pro revision. If I'm going to spend $4K on a laptop, I'd like to not have to do QA for the factory.

frabber
Jun 28, 2012, 03:43 AM
Good thing we got an active community here at macrumors to present and talk about early problems. I am sure Apple will take note and act accordingly.

mstur
Jun 28, 2012, 03:49 AM
I have seen ghosting on Apple displays before: All my three Apple 17" LCD Displays do show ghosting, but on these displays there is always the same basic image presented, a medical imaging software logo, and the screensavers are turned off. The logo is now visible all the time when a grey wallpaper is used as background. The logo“s "ghost" is "burnt in"...

No other Apple Display I have (Cinema 22", Cinema 23", Cinema 30", LCD 24", iMac G5 20", iMac 27", Macbook Pro 15", Macbook Air 11 and 13") ever had any ghosting, but I use the screen savers from OSX all the time, kicking in after 15 to 30 min of inactivity.

For testing my new Retinabook I changed the settings for full brightness, installed a grey wallpaper and opened an empty window in Pages. All screen savers and screen darkening options were turned off. Even after 45 minutes, no ghosting is visible when the bright empty window is closed.

IMHO I would never use the Retinabook this way. I always reduce brightness somewhat, and have the automatic screen darkening option and a screen saver installed.

So, as far as my testing shows, ghosting of the kind seen in the forums is NOT a design problem present in ALL Retinabooks, and anyone experiencing this problem should get a replacement unit ASAP ...

KnightWRX
Jun 28, 2012, 03:53 AM
The problem is apple is known to buy binned parts.

Good, if they're known to do it, you won't have a problem giving us a citation on that.

mikerr
Jun 28, 2012, 04:05 AM
On binning, nearest I can find is this from an appletv teardown:

http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/technology-blog/2012/04/apple-a5-from-the-apple-tv-3-surprise-surprise/
The new A5 processor die is not a single core processor, but contains a dual core processor. Either Apple is only utilizing one core or they are binning parts. Parts binning is a common process in semiconductors where devices are segregated (binned) based on meeting a subset of the overall requirements, in this case they could disable the “bad” core, this increases the usable die per wafer, lowering the cost.

archurban
Jun 28, 2012, 04:21 AM
retina display is not really new technology. it's only increased density twice. OLED is real cutting edge screen technology. Apple will be faced with the limitation soon. nowadays, I have seen it slowly. next 5 years, Apple will get stuck like sandwich.

jamesrt2004
Jun 28, 2012, 04:57 AM
image retention isn't ghosting -sigh-!

Asclepio
Jun 28, 2012, 07:52 AM
There is absolutely no image retention on my MacBook Pro with Retina Display.

There was none of the half dozen I looked at in-store.

If it comes up, I'll let you know.. but for now, a non-issue and non-starter, at least for me.

wait a couple of weeks, dont be so hasty.

ericinboston
Jun 28, 2012, 08:12 AM
Funny how when retina displays were announced, everyone was claiming how innovative Apple was and didn't want to give any credit to Samsung and LG. And now that there are some defects, folks want to assign the blame to Samsung and LG? :eek:

You fanboys can't have it both ways.



Spot on!!

Sackvillenb
Jun 28, 2012, 11:11 AM
I laugh when I buy hardware that still ships with floppy disks. I call the manufacturer and demand I be able to download or get the driver on CD/USB flash drive.

Do you really still get hardware that actually comes with floppy disks?? That's insane!

doelcm82
Jun 28, 2012, 11:15 AM
Funny how when retina displays were announced, everyone was claiming how innovative Apple was and didn't want to give any credit to Samsung and LG. And now that there are some defects, folks want to assign the blame to Samsung and LG? :eek:

You fanboys can't have it both ways.
That's not how I remember it. I remember people saying that Samsung or LG deserved the credit. I don't think I ever heard anyone say that Apple made the screens.

Just stay consistent. If you insisted on giving LG and Samsung the credit for the display, then give them the blame now.

If you insisted on only giving Apple the credit, give Apple the blame.

And "fanboys" are not a monolithic group with a single opinion on every issue. To see them that way shows a lack of perception. If you see one "fanboy" say one thing, and another "fanboy" say something contradictory, it's because they are two different people.

My Retina MBP display hasn't shown any ghosting, er... image retention, that I've noticed. So Apple and Samsung/LG are all fine in my book.

AidenShaw
Jun 28, 2012, 11:22 AM
there are three simple reasons for this:

1. Apple releases attract more attention.
2. Non-Apple users tend to care less about such flaws.
3. Many HP/Lenovo/Dell/Sony/etc.. come with screens with terrible quality to begin with, and people don't care because the laptop was cheap.

And a 4th reason is that Apple's secrecy code means that devices aren't widely field-tested.


I bought the first unibody MacBook Pro upon release, and it has worked without flaw until today.

What happened today?

doelcm82
Jun 28, 2012, 11:39 AM
Thank you for beta testing the Retina display on the Mac. And you too, iPhone 4s users!

Happy to be of service! Fools rush in, and beta-test the newest stuff.

I was a Commodore 64 beta tester, too. I had to return it four times before they figured out that it was the DataSette tape drive that kept frying them.

----------

Speak for yourself. Just because you do not need one does not mean hat someone else does not. That is why, "one size fits all" does not really work. With enough models & choices within those models there can be enough choices for everyone. Apple needed a few more base choices. But rather than expand their meager number of model choices they have cut some out & limited others. Cut out models are things like no new or old 17" Mac laptops. The limited item is the premium priced Mac Pro. Just as it had been rumored by all appearances the Mac Pro was not scheduled to be carried any more.

Apple still sells new computers with built in optical drives, for now. For those that don't have them built in, there is an external drive available. How is that "one size fits all"?

You have a choice which model to buy, and whether or not to buy the external drive. Why do you want to take away my choice to carry a slim, powerful notebook?

innerpurpose1
Jun 28, 2012, 11:43 AM
This is why they need to make these screens repairable and not an entirely disposable laptop

SpyderBite
Jun 28, 2012, 12:06 PM
This is why they need to make these screens repairable and not an entirely disposable laptop

I dunno. Apple Care + Carbon Copy Cloner seem like a relatively painless solution.

alfistas
Jun 28, 2012, 02:20 PM
What happened today?


It blew up... lol!!!

To the point: Rev C is the one to go for usually. When i got my first mac a powerbook G4 back in 2004 it was a rev. C and it still works flawlessly despite being used non stop for the last 8 years!! The same goes for my 2008 blackbook!

If I were to buy a mac today I'd go for the 15" unibody with a high res screen and the bloody SUPERDRIVE. ...as for the Retina? I'll buy one in 2016.:D

G51989
Jun 28, 2012, 03:14 PM
I dunno. Apple Care + Carbon Copy Cloner seem like a relatively painless solution.

You've clearly never had to deal with Apple customer service :D

iObserver
Jun 28, 2012, 06:33 PM
And this is why I learned not to be an early adaptor since iPhone 4's antenna gate :rolleyes:

I know many, many people who have had an iPhone 4 for well over a year and never has one complained about the antenna.

HowEver
Jun 28, 2012, 10:10 PM
"Dr. it hurts when I do this."

"Don't do this."


under regular usage the ghosting issue will not be seen. there are specific instructions in this forum setting the wallpaper to dark grey and leaving an image on for 30 mins, then the issue presents itself.

Big-TDI-Guy
Jun 28, 2012, 10:36 PM
I know many, many people who have had an iPhone 4 for well over a year and never has one complained about the antenna.

Funny, as I know many, many GSM iPhone 4 owners who actually DO have this problem, myself included. Maybe our hands aren't magic and/or radio transparent like the lucky ones?

53kyle
Jul 2, 2012, 07:09 PM
My iPad 2 has something like this but instead, when I go to the home screen or lock the iPad and turn on the screen, the top bar shows on the wallpaper but nothing else. Is this ghosting?

divinox
Jul 6, 2012, 08:42 PM
It is a shame this is happening.

It is strange, Screen issues seem to always be Apple's weak point. I don't know why this is. You would think after year of screen issues on earlier Apple products, and the fact that it's the screen that is, by it's very nature, in your face, they would do everything they can do to make sure future products do not suffer any noticeable flaws.

And yet, screen problems are almost guaranteed now on a new product.
It's a shame.

People keep buying and ignore that Apple are increasingly cutting corners, as it doesn't fit their view of what Apple is. Until that changes, things will only get worse. My MBA has had a failed i/o-board, and now a failed microphone in a couple of months. Pretty much half of my near-colleagues using MBPs have had to replace their trackpads. Add ghosting, keys that stop working, machines that are dead on arrival, etc. Not a pretty picture.

unplugme71
Jul 23, 2012, 08:36 AM
Do you really still get hardware that actually comes with floppy disks?? That's insane!

Yeah, even on newly released 2011/2012 model devices. Its a joke!

G51989
Jul 23, 2012, 08:38 AM
Yeah, even on newly released 2011/2012 model devices. Its a joke!

Where the hell are you finding them? I haven't even seen a floppy drive in any store in a LONG time.

Tadros86
Aug 14, 2012, 09:43 AM
I know many, many people who have had an iPhone 4 for well over a year and never has one complained about the antenna.

Do they have a case on the phone? If so, then the reception is not effected. Do they have the Verizon version? If so, the problem was fixed. It's only AT&T iPhone 4's that aren't in a case that have diminished signal strength when holding the phone.

----------

Hmmm... my 4 that I've had since day one still works just fine ;)

As long as you have a case on the phone, it works perfectly. It just sucks that if I take the case off, my signal strength goes down to nothing =/

htfung
Oct 14, 2012, 11:08 AM
If you bring your computer to Apple they will do a screen test for you. If your MBP fails the test, they will replace the screen. To make sure your MBP will fail the test, put the following image on your MBP at full screen at full brightness for 30 mins before going to meet with the tech support at Apple:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/796y6tkn93qz7t2/test.png