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DodgeV83
Jun 28, 2012, 11:01 PM
I didn't realize macrurnors got infested with so many trolls

The lack of mod intervention is probably intentional. The more people who come to make circular arguments, the more eyeballs there are for ad revenue.

----------

I had a 4s with my Maxx. I really can't think of one important thing the 4s could do the Maxx couldn't. However, I can think of at least 20 things off the top of my head the Maxx can do the 4s couldn't...run at LTE speeds, use an SD card, flash, go 3 times as long without a charge...

Yes, and I made a thread with over 100 points that I think the iPhone 4S does best. Are you really going to bring this argument into every thread?



mbell1975
Jun 28, 2012, 11:02 PM
Yes, and I made a thread with over 100 points that I think the iPhone 4S does best. Are you really going to bring this argument into every thread?

Point is, the things you listed can be done on an Android phone, most of them in fact. I just listed things you absolutely cannot do on or with an iPhone. You fail.

depths
Jun 28, 2012, 11:04 PM
I've spent a few hours with JB now, It's a very nice update.

Faster stock than the custom ROM/ kernel I was using on ICS and damn it's smooth. IOS smooth.

I feel a bit bad for all the sg3 owners that will have to wait for this. It's going to be amazing on that phone.

mbell1975
Jun 28, 2012, 11:06 PM
I've spent a few hours with JB now, It's a very nice update.

Faster stock than the custom ROM/ kernel I was using on ICS and damn it's smooth. IOS smooth.

I feel a bit bad for all the sg3 owners that will have to wait for this. It's going to be amazing on that phone.

Wont have to wait too long. Someone on XDA already has it running on his S3. a JB ROM could be coming much sooner than later.

0m3ga
Jun 28, 2012, 11:10 PM
Can't do as much? Have you compared Google Docs to Keynote? Have you compared a bluetooth mouse to Keynote Remote on the iPhone?

Having a separate video overlay on your presentation? Highlighting the importance of giving your presentation audience the power to edit your presentation (assuming they sign up with Google)?

This example exemplifies exactly what sets iOS apart from Android. Yes, both salesmen can walk in and pitch their services, but xraydoc's example will look professional, while yours...won't.

If you can look at the example xraydoc described, compare it to yours, and honestly believe yours is the "best solution for people today", then you don't get it.
hmmm, wondering if you have ever used Google docs and collaberation tools? Answer = Nope. Again, talking crap about things you have no clue about. When you get a clue, or hell maybe even touched a phone like the S3, we might pay attention to anything you have to say. Until then, anything you say is worthless.

depths
Jun 28, 2012, 11:14 PM
Wont have to wait too long. Someone on XDA already has it running on his S3. a JB ROM could be coming much sooner than later.

I love XDA :)

jeffe
Jun 28, 2012, 11:15 PM
Posting Android news on the front page practically encourages the conversation of comparing IOS to Android.


The lack of mod intervention is probably intentional. The more people who come to make circular arguments, the more eyeballs there are for ad revenue.

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Yes, and I made a thread with over 100 points that I think the iPhone 4S does best. Are you really going to bring this argument into every thread?

nuckinfutz
Jun 28, 2012, 11:23 PM
I see all is correct in the world again. iOS 6 is winning. I guess butter and widgets weren't enough :p


Mbell

SD card slots
LTE
Battery

Hardware features. iOS 6 crushes Android.

How many languages does Google Now support
How fast is the graphic subsystem?
What sync (beside the web) does it offer?

Apple wins all day every day.

mbell1975
Jun 28, 2012, 11:31 PM
I see all is correct in the world again. iOS 6 is winning. I guess butter and widgets weren't enough :p


Mbell

SD card slots
LTE
Battery

Hardware features. iOS 6 crushes Android.

How many languages does Google Now support
How fast is the graphic subsystem?
What sync (beside the web) does it offer?

Apple wins all day every day.

Yea, you let me know when you can set Chrome as your default browser or open a link with something other than Safari. Let me know when you can download an app not from the app store, or when you aren't forced to use iTunes for everything, or when you can download MP3s from the web or browse flash sites or manage your files with a file manager or.... You get the idea...

depths
Jun 28, 2012, 11:31 PM
How are you finding JB nuckinfutz?

DodgeV83
Jun 28, 2012, 11:34 PM
Point is, the things you listed can be done on an Android phone, most of them in fact. I just listed things you absolutely cannot do on or with an iPhone. You fail.

Based on my experience on debating with you, this is what's going to happen:

My next post will describe, in great detail, all of the things the iPhone 4S can do, that whichever phone you're comparing it to can't. I will then continue to describe the things they can both do, but the iPhone 4S does markedly better. I will provide links to specific Apple exclusive apps and functionalities, anecdotes from co-workers who claim certain work-related tasks are impossible on Android, screenshots and photos highlighting how the iPhone 4S outperformed the Android phone in identical situations, I'll quote an Android developer saying something is impossible on the platform, due to Android limitations, so they focused exclusively on iOS, I'll even include a video of the two phones in action, where the Android deficiencies are highlighted with video proof.

I will provide irrefutable technical evidence proving you wrong, while pointing out the logical fallacies in your argument, linking to the definitions of said fallacies and showing word-for-word how your argument applies.

...and you'll just do it again in the next thread.

Even your above statement isn't logically consistent. If "most" of the things I listed are possible on Android, then it must be true that some of the things I posted are not. Yet your next sentence claims I failed to list anything that's not possible on Android.

Leet Apple
Jun 28, 2012, 11:35 PM
iOS 6 > Jelly Bean

if0nez
Jun 28, 2012, 11:37 PM
All that matters is what you prefer, if you want a phone that just works, looks like everyone elses and is easy to use than get an iphone. (this reminds me of Henry Ford when he said you can have a model T in any color as long as it's black!) iOS is not bad, their development is slower than android, and they have copied alot from android, and VICE VERSA. Every single current smartphone has copied (and improved upon) the original iphone, so what. What should be taken from this mess is that all of these phones (windows, android, ios) are great capable phones. The only reason windows is around imo though, is because they have so much damn money. The other two at least innovate, windows seems to kind of tag along and stay afloat with their vast sums of cash. But to say apple doesn't innovate is ignorant, they have dictated the direction of (at the very least in terms of looks) almost all the markets they have touched in the last 10 years. You can't ignore this. However android is a great competitor, there is also a reason they exploded on the scene. They support a massive (probably too massive) amount of hardware and have innovated the smartphone in many ways. IMO the only place they sort of lag behind is the over all fluidness and 'finalized' feel of the OS. Emphasis on "sort of". And they are ahead in other areas (4g anyone?) Personally I prefer android, because I feel like it is my phone, not a phone Apple lets me use how they want me to use it.

For example, for most of my friends I would recommend android, for my parents I would recommend apple.

my two cents: I also hate the bloatware that t-mobile puts on android phones that you have to root to uninstall, so lame...not sure about other companies, but I would really just prefer the stock OS with maybe a few tweaks for the specific phone. At least iphone doesn't bloatware like 50 apps on their phones.

Long live all of the companies!

mbell1975
Jun 28, 2012, 11:38 PM
Even your above statement isn't logically consistent. If "most" of the things I listed are possible on Android, then it must be true that some of the things I posted are not. Yet your next sentence claims I failed to list anything that's not possible on Android.

You read that wrong. I was saying most Android phones can do everything you listed. The newer ones can easily do anything an iPhone can

nuckinfutz
Jun 28, 2012, 11:41 PM
How are you finding JB nuckinfutz?

I'll let you know when I get my Nexus 7 (provided and iPad mini doesn't get announced in Fall)

I think JB is decent though it's been largely demoed on fast hardware. I've got iOS 5.x running on a single core A4 processor and it feels 90% as fast as the JB vids i've seen so far.


Based on my experience on debating with you, this is what's going to happen:

My next post will describe, in great detail, all of the things the iPhone 4S can do, that whichever phone you're comparing it to can't. I will then continue to describe the things they can both do, but the iPhone 4S does markedly better. I will provide links to specific Apple exclusive apps and functionalities, anecdotes from co-workers who claim certain work-related tasks are impossible on Android, screenshots and photos highlighting how the iPhone 4S outperformed the Android phone in identical situations, I'll quote an Android developer saying something is impossible on the platform, due to Android limitations, so they focused exclusively on iOS, I'll even include a video of the two phones in action, where the Android deficiencies are highlighted with video proof.

I will provide irrefutable technical evidence proving you wrong, while pointing out the logical fallacies in your argument, linking to the definitions of said fallacies and showing word-for-word how your argument applies.

...and you'll just do it again in the next thread.

Even your above statement isn't logically consistent. If "most" of the things I listed are possible on Android, then it must be true that some of the things I posted are not. Yet your next sentence claims I failed to list anything that's not possible on Android.

:D

depths
Jun 28, 2012, 11:44 PM
iOS 6 > Jelly Bean

Good point.

DodgeV83
Jun 28, 2012, 11:53 PM
hmmm, wondering if you have ever used Google docs and collaberation tools? Answer = Nope. Again, talking crap about things you have no clue about. When you get a clue, or hell maybe even touched a phone like the S3, we might pay attention to anything you have to say. Until then, anything you say is worthless.

You are attacking me, instead of my argument, based on your assumptions of my knowledge, which themselves are based solely on your personal opinion of my conclusions.

An ad hominem argument is any that attempts to counter another’s claims or conclusions by attacking the person, rather than addressing the argument itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Is it really your statement that connecting your S3 to a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard to run a presentation off of Google Docs, while clicking through folders during the presentation to overlay a video on top of everything, is the "best solution for people today" who are looking to give a professional presentation?

mbell1975
Jun 28, 2012, 11:54 PM
I'll let you know when I get my Nexus 7 (provided and iPad mini doesn't get announced in Fall)

I think JB is decent though it's been largely demoed on fast hardware.

LOL what? It's been demoed on the Galaxy Nexus which is last years hardware. Put it on a quadcore S3 and it will obliterate the 4s

nuckinfutz
Jun 29, 2012, 12:07 AM
LOL what? It's been demoed on the Galaxy Nexus which is last years hardware. Put it on a quadcore S3 and it will obliterate the 4s

Dual Core 1.2Ghz is pretty solid hardware. Android isn't going to obliterate anything from Apple because the OS sucks for optimization.

0m3ga
Jun 29, 2012, 12:08 AM
You are attacking me, instead of my argument, based on your assumptions of my knowledge, which themselves are based solely on your personal opinion of my conclusions.
I can base it on your responses. Your ignorance of Android, and in particular the S3, would be obvious to a 5 year old kid.
Additionally, your lack of acknowledgement is a clear indicator of the truth. And as I said in my last post, your posts are actually less than worthless since you simply make ****** up.


Is it really your statement that connecting your S3 to a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard to run a presentation off of Google Docs, while clicking through folders during the presentation to overlay a video on top of everything, is the "best solution for people today" who are looking to give a professional presentation?
Seriously dude, you really need to just stop commenting on this topic. You know less than nothing on this. But let me simplify this for you. The S3 turns into a PC in every respect when you link it up. Can you comprehend this. I'll repeat. The S3 replicates a PC. It looks and acts like a pc. So using a PC to do a presentation is not professional in your opinion?

You really, really need an education on the capabilities of Google, Android and in particular the S3.

mbell1975
Jun 29, 2012, 12:14 AM
Dual Core 1.2Ghz is pretty solid hardware. Android isn't going to obliterate anything from Apple because the OS sucks for optimization.

Wrong. The international S3 already smokes the 4s in every CPU and GPU test. Put JB on it and it beats it even worse :)

http://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-s3-gets-benchmarked-82647/

0m3ga
Jun 29, 2012, 12:15 AM
Dual Core 1.2Ghz is pretty solid hardware. Android isn't going to obliterate anything from Apple because the OS sucks for optimization.

I guess you must be smarter than every benchmark reviewer and a site like Anandtech then? Must be nice living in your world.

Here are just a few quotes from Anandtech regarding the S3 and 4.0.4:
Though (understandably) not as quick as the Snapdragon S4 based One X, the SGS3 does extremely well here - likely due in no small part to whatever browser optimizations ship in Samsung's 4.0.4 build. As Brian put it when he first got time with the device: it's butter.

What's particularly insane is that Samsung is able to deliver better performance than the iPhone 4S, the previous king-of-the-GPU-hill in these tests.

DodgeV83
Jun 29, 2012, 12:20 AM
These aren't unknown sources. These are developers with high traffic websites who release their source code, officially recognized and reviewed by major publications, with a huge paper trail headed to their bank accounts from donations. They aren't some shady guy lurking in some forum. They're people with a reputation to uphold that can easily be found and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Sure, I wouldn't trust some custom ROM that was cobbled by some kid on a forum that few people frequent, but that's where your intelligence comes in so you can avoid that.

And btw, the carriers have power because Google allowed them to have that power due to their business model, since getting this OS into as many people's hands is how they do business. This is why Apple only started on AT&T at first.

I have two responses to this:

1. Simply having a website, and a PayPal account which may or may not be linked to a bank account (how do you know?), is not verification that he/she isn't a scammer. Nor does it confirm that the binary you're downloading is from the same source code that has been reviewed by major publications. I read more complicated schemes on www.krebsonsecurity.com almost daily.

2. While the big ROMs are, not all ROMs on XDA are made from these better known developers. A large number of people download ROMs everyday from these lesser known devs, all from the same website.

----------

I can base it on your responses. Your ignorance of Android, and in particular the S3, would be obvious to a 5 year old kid.
Additionally, your lack of acknowledgement is a clear indicator of the truth. And as I said in my last post, your posts are actually less than worthless since you simply make ****** up.



Seriously dude, you really need to just stop commenting on this topic. You know less than nothing on this. But let me simplify this for you. The S3 turns into a PC in every respect when you link it up. Can you comprehend this. I'll repeat. The S3 replicates a PC. It looks and acts like a pc. So using a PC to do a presentation is not professional in your opinion?

You really, really need an education on the capabilities of Google, Android and in particular the S3.

You didn't answer my question:

Is it really your statement that connecting your S3 to a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard to run a presentation off of Google Docs, while clicking through folders during the presentation to overlay a video on top of everything, is the "best solution for people today" who are looking to give a professional presentation?

0m3ga
Jun 29, 2012, 12:21 AM
I see all is correct in the world again. iOS 6 is winning. I guess butter and widgets weren't enough :p


Mbell

SD card slots
LTE
Battery

Hardware features. iOS 6 crushes Android.

How many languages does Google Now support
How fast is the graphic subsystem?
What sync (beside the web) does it offer?

Apple wins all day every day.

Interesting. Didn't realize having a lack of features makes an OS better? If so, sure iOS6 is better.

By the way, just had a little look on language support. Google and Android support 40 languages. iOS = 34
So less is better?

nuckinfutz
Jun 29, 2012, 12:25 AM
Breaking:

New smartphone due in July 2012 bests and iPhone delivered in Oct 2012.


Geez thanks guys. Don't know what i'd do without your incomparable intelligence in benchmark sleuthing.

DodgeV83
Jun 29, 2012, 12:25 AM
I guess you must be smarter than every benchmark reviewer and a site like Anandtech then? Must be nice living in your world.

Here are just a few quotes from Anandtech regarding the S3 and 4.0.4:

The S3 came out 8 months after the iPhone 4S, that's an eternity. I'm sure Android beats the iPhone 3G as well. I'm guessing nuckingfuts was referring to hardware released in the same generation.

matttye
Jun 29, 2012, 12:28 AM
Wont have to wait too long. Someone on XDA already has it running on his S3. a JB ROM could be coming much sooner than later.

Yep, but unfortunately a lot of people will probably wait for it because this touchwiz is actually decent!

Has really useful voice commands; you can say "shoot" in the camera whilst steadying it with both hands to take a picture. You can say "answer" or "reject" when there's an incoming call, and I don't want to lose smart stay either.

0m3ga
Jun 29, 2012, 12:31 AM
You didn't answer my question:

Is it really your statement that connecting your S3 to a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard to run a presentation off of Google Docs, while clicking through folders during the presentation to overlay a video on top of everything, is the "best solution for people today" who are looking to give a professional presentation?
Holy crap. Is English your second or third language? If so, I understand your inability to comprehend the language.

Let me put this at the 5th grade level. Is using a PC to do a presentation professional looking?
If yes, then you support my argument.
If no, then you disagree with with xraydoc and you're contradicting yourself.

Let me just show you a video. Maybe you will understand more through a 'visual' presentation courtesy of the S3. Enjoy. And by the way, the iPhone can't do a single thing in this video. You can skip ahead to the bt connection part if you wish.

Link: http://youtu.be/46IiRyigUH0

----------

Breaking:

New smartphone due in July 2012 bests and iPhone delivered in Oct 2012.


Geez thanks guys. Don't know what i'd do without your incomparable intelligence in benchmark sleuthing.

Contradict yourself much?
Dual Core 1.2Ghz is pretty solid hardware. Android isn't going to obliterate anything from Apple because the OS sucks for optimization.

matttye
Jun 29, 2012, 12:32 AM
I'll let you know when I get my Nexus 7 (provided and iPad mini doesn't get announced in Fall)

I think JB is decent though it's been largely demoed on fast hardware. I've got iOS 5.x running on a single core A4 processor and it feels 90% as fast as the JB vids i've seen so far.




:D

You don't need as powerful hardware to run a grid of icons and limited background apps. Not trolling, just the way it is, there's a lot going on with Android as it's a more sophisticated (but admittedly not as clean) OS.

DodgeV83
Jun 29, 2012, 12:33 AM
Holy crap. Is English your second or third language? If so, I understand your inability to comprehend the language.

Let me put this at the 5th grade level. Is using a PC to do a presentation professional looking?
If yes, then you support my argument.
If no, then you disagree with with xraydoc and you're contradicting yourself.

Let me just show you a video. Maybe you will understand more through a 'visual' presentation courtesy of the S3. Enjoy. And by the way, the iPhone can't do a single thing in this video. You can skip ahead to the bt connection part if you wish.

Link: http://youtu.be/46IiRyigUH0

0m3ga, this is a yes or no question. Is it your statement that the S3 is the "best solution available today" for those who are looking to give a professional presentation?

matttye
Jun 29, 2012, 12:34 AM
Dual Core 1.2Ghz is pretty solid hardware. Android isn't going to obliterate anything from Apple because the OS sucks for optimization.

That's what project butter is all about... Optimisation. Making the cpu and gpu work in tandem and some other fancy stuff I don't fully understand yet :p

Either way, it looks really smooth and Android is a more powerful and resource hungry os, so it's an achievement if they've managed to get it to run as smoothly as ios on comparable hardware.

mbell1975
Jun 29, 2012, 12:35 AM
Yep, but unfortunately a lot of people will probably wait for it because this touchwiz is actually decent!

Has really useful voice commands; you can say "shoot" in the camera whilst steadying it with both hands to take a picture. You can say "answer" or "reject" when there's an incoming call, and I don't want to lose smart stay either.

Didn't know that. Is there somewhere that shows little features of the phone like that?

jeffe
Jun 29, 2012, 12:35 AM
What new smartphone? Anyways, I'm running JB on my nexus now and its running fine...however, the ICS ran fine to me as well. Curious to see what cards google now starts to auto-generate for me.

i have nothing bad to say about the IPhone...It is a great device for some people..just not my cup of tea.

I could care less about benchmarks, or whether the phone can speak and understand mandaran, indian, or whatever.

If people have questions, please be free to ask away.



Breaking:

New smartphone due in July 2012 bests and iPhone delivered in Oct 2012.


Geez thanks guys. Don't know what i'd do without your incomparable intelligence in benchmark sleuthing.

matttye
Jun 29, 2012, 12:39 AM
Didn't know that. Is there somewhere that shows little features of the phone like that?

Do a search for something like "ten features you didn't know about on the S3", there's a few sites about.

I mainly found them through playing with it. You can say "stop" and "snooze" to your alarm clock and there's music/radio controls too ("previous", "next" etc.)

DodgeV83
Jun 29, 2012, 12:41 AM
What new smartphone? Anyways, I'm running JB on my nexus now and its running fine...

He was referring to someone mentioning how the newly released international S3 is the first phone to beat the iPhone 4S (October 2011) in GPU benchmarks.

Of course, this doesn't help anyone in the US much, as the US version of the S3 actually has worse graphics than last year's internationally sold S2. :(

nuckinfutz
Jun 29, 2012, 12:41 AM
You don't need as powerful hardware to run a grid of icons and limited background apps. Not trolling, just the way it is, there's a lot going on with Android as it's a more sophisticated (but admittedly not as clean) OS.

False

It has nothing to do with icons on a grid or even background apps. iOS has much better graphics subsystem with many of the frameworks heavily leveraging OpenGL which is why my 800Mhz A4 processor works well in concert with the GPU/CPU and OS to deliver great performance.

Apple hasn't been sleeping either in iOS 6. Core Animation, OpenGL and OpenCL have all improved.

Remember. On the average Apple's done it with less mhz, less battery and less RAM.

Better OS folks.

matttye
Jun 29, 2012, 12:41 AM
What new smartphone? Anyways, I'm running JB on my nexus now and its running fine...however, the ICS ran fine to me as well. Curious to see what cards google now starts to auto-generate for me.

i have nothing bad to say about the IPhone...It is a great device for some people..just not my cup of tea.

I could care less about benchmarks, or whether the phone can speak and understand mandaran, indian, or whatever.

If people have questions, please be free to ask away.

I have a couple. If you have a bluetooth headset, can you set a lock screen and check two things? :-

1. That the phone uses the new voice search app for commands when listening over a headset.
2. That you don't need to unlock the phone before speaking?

Thanks!

jeffe
Jun 29, 2012, 12:42 AM
More details Om3ga. What kind of professional presentation would this be? What are the requirements?

0m3ga, this is a yes or no question. Is it your statement that the S3 is the "best solution available today" for those who are looking to give a professional presentation?

matttye
Jun 29, 2012, 12:46 AM
False

It has nothing to do with icons on a grid or even background apps. iOS has much better graphics subsystem with many of the frameworks heavily leveraging OpenGL which is why my 800Mhz A4 processor works well in concert with the GPU/CPU and OS to deliver great performance.

Apple hasn't been sleeping either in iOS 6. Core Animation, OpenGL and OpenCL have all improved.

Remember. On the average Apple's done it with less mhz, less battery and less RAM.

Better OS folks.

So you're saying that the fact that Android runs rich widgets, live wallpapers, etc has absolutely nothing to do with it?

I'm not doubting that ios has the better graphics management but clearly all of the above has an effect too.

Newsflash: you can be a fan of a product without being completely oblivious.

DodgeV83
Jun 29, 2012, 12:49 AM
More details Om3ga. What kind of professional presentation would this be? What are the requirements?

For context, when he made the statement, he was responding to this:

show me an Android tablet where I can create/edit a full-featured high-quality Keynote/PowerPoint presentation, connect to an HDMI or VGA projector, sync my phone via BT or WiFi to use as a presentation controller with presenter notes, and do it all while automatically keeping all edits between Mac, tablet and phone in perfect sync.

lordofthereef
Jun 29, 2012, 02:51 PM
I'll admit, GTalk on Android sucks. You can't even send pictures on it. It needs to be turned into a full BBM/Whatsapp/iMessage-like suite, but without the closed nature of iMessage. I'd like to have those messages sync to my account that I can access on any web browser and be able to chat with anybody on an IM service that uses XMPP.

That being said, Apple should make the Messages app more like the OSX beta Messages app, where you can chat with people on other networks.

I had been hoping that we would get this functionality with iOS6. Unless I missed something, or unless it just hasn't been pushed to public beta, my wishes don't seem to have been granted. :(


Newsflash: you can be a fan of a product without being completely oblivious.

Not here you can't! :cool::apple:

ChazUK
Jun 29, 2012, 05:18 PM
What timing....
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/29/3126934/apple-samsung-judge-denies-injunction-galaxy-nexus

No Galaxy Nexus for you!:eek:

aohus
Jun 29, 2012, 05:23 PM
I am LOVING JellyBean 4.1 on Galaxy Nexus (VZW).

It will only get better. Siri has a lot of catchup work to do. I miss Steve Jobs. I bet if he were here now he'd be PISSED with how Siri is coming along.

----------

I would never allow Google now to collect my personal information. :mad:

Too late, as iOS uses Search, Maps, and Navigation directly from Google at this moment. It's actually one of the reason's why Apple is trying to not depend on Google as much. They're trying to remove all Google related search from iOS.

mbell1975
Jun 29, 2012, 05:39 PM
What timing....
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/29/3126934/apple-samsung-judge-denies-injunction-galaxy-nexus

No Galaxy Nexus for you!:eek:

LOL. Apple is scared...

Frankied22
Jun 29, 2012, 07:49 PM
What timing....
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/29/3126934/apple-samsung-judge-denies-injunction-galaxy-nexus

No Galaxy Nexus for you!:eek:

Yea screw Apple. I am glad I ordered mine two days ago and it's already on its way :)

sentinelsx
Jun 29, 2012, 10:06 PM
Better OS folks.

For you.

If it was the better OS objectively, i wouldn't be looking at a competitor OS for my iPhone 4 replacement (WP8 or ICS/JB). So it is not the better OS for all of us. Neither is any other.

Jb07
Jun 30, 2012, 12:22 AM
I'm definitely staying on Android. I was way too underwhelmed with iOS 6. What was supposed to be a major iOS release was nothing more than a few features already in Android plus Passbook. I was looking for something that could convince me to switch to iOS but iOS 6 just doesn't have any compelling features. I mean, Jellybean is only an incremental update, so I wasn't expecting much, but I feel like it was more of an improvement over ICS than iOS 6 was over iOS 5.

Mac.World
Jun 30, 2012, 12:58 AM
What timing....
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/29/3126934/apple-samsung-judge-denies-injunction-galaxy-nexus

No Galaxy Nexus for you!:eek:

This could be a disaster for both consumers and Samsung. Although I believe the next Galaxy Nexus is supposed to be released in a couple of months? Will it and the SIII now run into trouble? Or will Google step in and sue Apple for the Notification Center and try to ban the next iPhone?

This could get really bad for consumers in the U.S., regardless which phone you have or like.

nuckinfutz
Jun 30, 2012, 01:08 AM
I'm definitely staying on Android. I was way too underwhelmed with iOS 6. What was supposed to be a major iOS release was nothing more than a few features already in Android plus Passbook. I was looking for something that could convince me to switch to iOS but iOS 6 just doesn't have any compelling features. I mean, Jellybean is only an incremental update, so I wasn't expecting much, but I feel like it was more of an improvement over ICS than iOS 6 was over iOS 5.

Yawn

What would have been "Major"?
:rolleyes:

Calidude
Jun 30, 2012, 01:10 AM
What timing....
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/29/3126934/apple-samsung-judge-denies-injunction-galaxy-nexus

No Galaxy Nexus for you!:eek:
Already have mine but I hope Apple users are condemning Apple's actions here.

nuckinfutz
Jun 30, 2012, 01:20 AM
Already have mine but I hope Apple users are condemning Apple's actions here.

Samsung's a CTRL C company. They'll stop getting sued when they stop stealing peoples ideas.

I remember when they stole Blackberry's (http://reviews.us.samsung.com/7463/SGH-I637MAAATT/samsung-samsung-jack-qwerty-cell-phone-reviews/reviews.htm) look as well.

They had it coming.

onthecouchagain
Jun 30, 2012, 01:22 AM
You know what's funny? Somehow, Jelly Bean (and Android overall) just doesn't appeal to me on any other level than my smartphone. For example, I can't ever see myself owning an Android tablet, not even the Nexus 7. For whatever reason, when it comes to tablets, I'm all iPad and iOS (not saying it's perfect, but iOS is so much better realized on the iPad than on the iPhone).

mbell1975
Jun 30, 2012, 01:30 AM
You know what's funny? Somehow, Jelly Bean (and Android overall) just doesn't appeal to me on any other level than my smartphone. For example, I can't ever see myself owning an Android tablet, not even the Nexus 7. For whatever reason, when it comes to tablets, I'm all iPad and iOS (not saying it's perfect, but iOS is so much better realized on the iPad than on the iPhone).

Agreed but I will still get the Nexus 7 too, especially at that great price. I am laying in bed typing this with one hand while holding the iPad with the other. It's a bit heavy. Something thinner and lighter will be welcome.

Calidude
Jun 30, 2012, 01:36 AM
iOS is so much better realized on the iPad than on the iPhone).
Please elaborate on this.

matttye
Jun 30, 2012, 02:16 AM
Yawn

What would have been "Major"?
:rolleyes:

Something that improved on the core features (improved notifications etc.)

Every other iOS version has had a core feature update:-

2 - app store
3 - copy and paste
4 - multitasking
5 - notifications

6 - nada

matttye
Jun 30, 2012, 02:17 AM
Samsung's a CTRL C company. They'll stop getting sued when they stop stealing peoples ideas.

I remember when they stole Blackberry's (http://reviews.us.samsung.com/7463/SGH-I637MAAATT/samsung-samsung-jack-qwerty-cell-phone-reviews/reviews.htm) look as well.

They had it coming.

Getting sued is fine, understandable even, but seeking a ban is anti-competitive. Apple should ask for damages.

Calidude
Jun 30, 2012, 02:23 AM
Yawn

What would have been "Major"?
:rolleyes:
You've asked this question many times on this forum and people have answered you. You're clearly not listening or refuse to listen.

onthecouchagain
Jun 30, 2012, 02:37 AM
Please elaborate on this.

Something about iOS on the iPad makes its shortcomings more tolerable. The larger screen just allows for more functionality in Mail, Safari, the keyboard, etc. For example, tabs with Safari on the iPad is close to tabs on a computer; you just click the tab you want (still hate that you can only open 9 though). Whereas Safari on the iPhone requires to hit the tab button, swipe, then pick the tab you want. Things like gestures too, like pinching to get back to the home screen, or swiping left/right to quickly switch between apps, or sliding up to see the list of opened apps, etc. also help make the experience much more fluid and intuitive versus how things are done with the iPhone.

----------

Agreed but I will still get the Nexus 7 too, especially at that great price. I am laying in bed typing this with one hand while holding the iPad with the other. It's a bit heavy. Something thinner and lighter will be welcome.


Totally agree. I wish the iPad offered a better front facing camera (ugh on Apple for holding out features again), and was lighter and thinner. It definitely can get a little heavy, tiring, and/or cumbersome to manage if you have to hold it up constantly. I can't believe the people on the train who hold it up to read for the duration of the train ride.

I suppose I also don't see the point of getting such a middle-size-spec device between my GN and iPad. I think the Nexus 7 looks great and will def. be king of that spec-range. But again... not sure why JB/Android isn't as appealing on a tablet to me. Oh well.

matttye
Jun 30, 2012, 02:44 AM
You've asked this question many times on this forum and people have answered you. You're clearly not listening or refuse to listen.

When someone replies to his posts with a compelling argument he just runs away and doesn't post again, like this from earlier in the thread:

False

It has nothing to do with icons on a grid or even background apps. iOS has much better graphics subsystem with many of the frameworks heavily leveraging OpenGL which is why my 800Mhz A4 processor works well in concert with the GPU/CPU and OS to deliver great performance.

Apple hasn't been sleeping either in iOS 6. Core Animation, OpenGL and OpenCL have all improved.

Remember. On the average Apple's done it with less mhz, less battery and less RAM.

Better OS folks.

So you're saying that the fact that Android runs rich widgets, live wallpapers, etc has absolutely nothing to do with it?

I'm not doubting that ios has the better graphics management but clearly all of the above has an effect too.

Newsflash: you can be a fan of a product without being completely oblivious.

Calidude
Jun 30, 2012, 02:47 AM
Something about iOS on the iPad makes its shortcomings more tolerable. The larger screen just allows for more functionality in Mail, Safari, the keyboard, etc. For example, tabs with Safari on the iPad is close to tabs on a computer; you just click the tab you want (still hate that you can only open 9 though). Whereas Safari on the iPhone requires to hit the tab button, swipe, then pick the tab you want. Things like gestures too, like pinching to get back to the home screen, or swiping left/right to quickly switch between apps, or sliding up to see the list of opened apps, etc. also help make the experience much more fluid and intuitive versus how things are done with the iPhone.
Yeah but aren't those common sense things to do on such a large screen? I mean, it's not as if iOS is designed better for tablets, but rather that those things you describe are just obvious things to have included for such a device. If you have space for desktop-like tabs, add desktop-like tabs. If you have more space for people's whole hand, incorporate whole hand gestures. If you have space to put more information like another pane, put another pane in.

And so on and so forth.

matttye
Jun 30, 2012, 02:56 AM
Yeah but aren't those common sense things to do on such a large screen? I mean, it's not as if iOS is designed better for tablets, but rather that those things you describe are just obvious things to have included for such a device. If you have space for desktop-like tabs, add desktop-like tabs. If you have more space for people's whole hand, incorporate whole hand gestures. If you have space to put more information like another pane, put another pane in.

And so on and so forth.

It's still designed better though. There's a shortcut to brightness, music and volume controls in the multitasking bar on the iPad. Apple could have incorporated three finger gestures rather than whole hand gestures on the iPhone, but didn't.

Obviously the desktop tabs, and having an email list and reading pane alongside each other in the mail app are simply "big screen obvious features" - but some of the others are really useful to have, and could have been implemented in the iPhone but weren't.

Technarchy
Jun 30, 2012, 03:05 AM
Getting sued is fine, understandable even, but seeking a ban is anti-competitive. Apple should ask for damages.

Don't like getting banned? Don't steal from Apple or anyone else.

onthecouchagain
Jun 30, 2012, 08:24 AM
Yeah but aren't those common sense things to do on such a large screen? I mean, it's not as if iOS is designed better for tablets, but rather that those things you describe are just obvious things to have included for such a device. If you have space for desktop-like tabs, add desktop-like tabs. If you have more space for people's whole hand, incorporate whole hand gestures. If you have space to put more information like another pane, put another pane in.

And so on and so forth.

Right. That's what makes the iOS experience better on the IPad than it is on the iPhone. We're essentially saying the same thing no?

To be clear I don't think iOS is perfect on the iPad. Fundamental things about the OS still bother me like the lack of threaded messages in Mail, the keyboard still misses keys often (god swype would be glorious on the iPad!), etc. I also have to confess I do less, and therefore demand less, on a tablet than I do my smartphone ( which is with me all the time) so ios' shortcomings are less bothersome on the iPad.

cynics
Jun 30, 2012, 08:55 AM
You know what's funny? Somehow, Jelly Bean (and Android overall) just doesn't appeal to me on any other level than my smartphone. For example, I can't ever see myself owning an Android tablet, not even the Nexus 7. For whatever reason, when it comes to tablets, I'm all iPad and iOS (not saying it's perfect, but iOS is so much better realized on the iPad than on the iPhone).

I respect your decision. If you prefer apple then great. Thats the way business should work. You see a product and prefer it over another. Not that company suing others for infringement while they are doing the same thing so their is little to no choice but to buy their product. It's not like Samsung started making cell phones after Apple did.

nickchallis92
Jun 30, 2012, 09:08 AM
question:

Why is it relevant that iOS can run more smoothly on lesser hardware than android? At the end of the day, from a consumer's point of view, a phone is fast or it isn't. They don't need to know what is running underneath, just as long as it works.

the only argument here could be that it uses more battery, but this isn't even the case as the iphone's battery is terrible

onthecouchagain
Jun 30, 2012, 10:34 AM
Well, after watching the Verge review of the Nexus 7, I'm a bit enamored by it now. -_-'

naths
Jun 30, 2012, 11:03 AM
Apple sues Samsung....Samsung sues Apple.....they are like stupid kids!!...very childish...Apple does not own the world...although it thinks it does...

lordofthereef
Jun 30, 2012, 11:15 AM
question:

Why is it relevant that iOS can run more smoothly on lesser hardware than android? At the end of the day, from a consumer's point of view, a phone is fast or it isn't. They don't need to know what is running underneath, just as long as it works.

the only argument here could be that it uses more battery, but this isn't even the case as the iphone's battery is terrible

To a large degree I agree with you. The problem is that Android's name is tarnished a bit by the cheaper phones out there. The Android phones that you get for free on contract are going to run pretty poorly (inc somparison to the flagship phones obviously). The iOS phone (3GS) you get free ($.99) on contract will run anything on the appstore just fine. The comparison is not just for enthusiasts (what I would consider most, if not all, persons continuing the discussion in this thread). Enthusiasts are not what drive smart phone sales anymore. It is the average Joe, and the average Joe may come to the conclusion that Android is a bad platform because he is having issues with apps from Google Play where he (or his friend, or whatever) had no issues on his 3GS.

----------

Apple sues Samsung....Samsung sues Apple.....they are like stupid kids!!...very childish...Apple does not own the world...although it thinks it does...

Most of these suites are in America and other places where patent laws are antiquated. Under the law, these companies are only doing what is their right to do, essentially (not saying it IS right, but the law allows for it). Until these laws are revamped this sort of thing is going to continue.

shulerg
Jun 30, 2012, 11:25 AM
Apple sues Samsung....Samsung sues Apple.....they are like stupid kids!!...very childish...Apple does not own the world...although it thinks it does...

Meanwhile, in Africa......:D jk

nuckinfutz
Jun 30, 2012, 12:35 PM
You've asked this question many times on this forum and people have answered you. You're clearly not listening or refuse to listen.

That's not true. Most posts that i've seen complain about no major feature in iOS yet never mention what's missing until you prod them more and some say Widgets and Toggles. LOL. Not major at all

I'll be the first to say that iOS doesn't contain any "knock you out of your seat" changes. It doesn't need to. Android and iOS have grown up nicely and now many of the new features are really just polish and in some cases fluff.

If I'm on iOS and I enjoy it ...I'm not worried about Android. If I'm on Android and I'm happy with it ..iOS 6 isn't likely going to want to make me switch.

Jb07
Jun 30, 2012, 02:23 PM
Yawn

What would have been "Major"?
:rolleyes:


Yawn?
Am I boring you? If I am, feel free not to read my post, thanks.:rolleyes:
But maybe they could've redesigned the 5 1/2 year old interface that has stayed almost exactly the same since it's release.
Or maybe they could redo the multitasking to make it a much better experience than it is now.
Do you really believe iOS 6 is a major update? The "new" features it brought should've been in iOS 4 years ago.

blackhand1001
Jun 30, 2012, 02:27 PM
Just want people to know that project butter really is everything they promised. Its so smooth on my nexus. Not even on a custom ROM. This is the 100% stock experience.

Kariya
Jun 30, 2012, 03:07 PM
People should stop whining and wake up to the fact that Apple wont be doing a shock UI ovehaul. Because thats bad for UX.

The changed will come gradually and slowly the same way it has been on OS X. We've lost brushed metal, fonts have changed and there's very little Aqua left in the current version of OS X.

In iOS icons have been updated, buttons changed, colours altered, apps have been redesigned.

If you're looking for a Microsoft/Android style overhaul then you're in for continual disappointment and i suggest you join those platforms instead. Those interfaces NEEDED to be revamped...Apple's interface is tried and tested and millions of average consumers are used to it. This is why there won't be any sudden/shock changes.

Besides, its not like iOS 6 looks exactly like iOS 1. There have been subtle differences with each revision.

http://sscott.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/0706iphone-main1.pnghttp://mobzilaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ios-5.0.1.jpg

Even in iOS 6 there have been subtle changes. The Music and Phone app have undergone UI changes.

onthecouchagain
Jun 30, 2012, 04:01 PM
Just want people to know that project butter really is everything they promised. Its so smooth on my nexus. Not even on a custom ROM. This is the 100% stock experience.

I can't wait to get the jelly bean update on my nexus. I'm most excited about the new keyboard. I really didn't think we'd see jelly bean until winter time as was usual in the past. This is a very early treat and it looks delicious. does it live up to the swiftkey hype?

Technarchy
Jun 30, 2012, 04:08 PM
Just want people to know that project butter really is everything they promised. Its so smooth on my nexus. Not even on a custom ROM. This is the 100% stock experience.

I find it hilarious that club android has to shout from the hilltops that android is running smooth.

Somehow I don't see Apple ever adding a "smoothness" feature...

matttye
Jun 30, 2012, 05:59 PM
Don't like getting banned? Don't steal from Apple or anyone else.

Every company steals. It depends a lot on which one puts on the better show in court as to what happens as a result.

matttye
Jun 30, 2012, 06:04 PM
I find it hilarious that club android has to shout from the hilltops that android is running smooth.

Somehow I don't see Apple ever adding a "smoothness" feature...

You have a strange sense of humour. One of the major problems with Android for a lot of people being fixed is something to shout about.

Yumunum
Jun 30, 2012, 06:27 PM
Jelly Bean for me.

At least for my uses and preferences, Jelly Bean (and Android as a whole) has these nice qualities:

-faster, due to the fact that animations can be disabled
-offline voice dictation
-better way of handling notifications than iOS
-better Gmail solution
-third party apps can be set to perform actions by default, such as opening links, files, or even replace your homescreen. (compare this to iOS, where if you want something like a new browser, you'll still be stuck with Safari every time you click links and such)
-real multitasking
-bigger screens on Android devices, with high res displays
-you can change your user-agent to let you browse desktop sites
-better YouTube app
-better maps app(s). (Google Maps, integrated with Google Places, ect.)
-file system, for when you need it
-any files can be uploaded to websites (compare to iOS 6 where you can only upload pictures)
-better Gmail app/support
-widgets

nuckinfutz
Jun 30, 2012, 06:55 PM
Yawn?
Am I boring you? If I am, feel free not to read my post, thanks.:rolleyes:
But maybe they could've redesigned the 5 1/2 year old interface that has stayed almost exactly the same since it's release.
Or maybe they could redo the multitasking to make it a much better experience than it is now.
Do you really believe iOS 6 is a major update? The "new" features it brought should've been in iOS 4 years ago.

Thanks for that permission sir :D

Change for the sake of change. I'm not so sure about that being a big deal. I would like to be able to change automatic flow of app orientation. That way your screen apps or folder could be organized in a pattern.

iOS 6 is a solid update but not a major one. It likely didn't really need a major update yet. Pretty much everything that needs to be there is now there. Performance on new hardware never suffered.

Stay tuned on the multi-tasking. Power Nap coming in OS X is like a precursor to "Moar stuffs in the background".

Next up should be a clever way of sending data across apps and that's really going to take a lot of work to keep it secure and flexible.

Calidude
Jul 1, 2012, 08:13 AM
Every company steals. It depends a lot on which one puts on the better show in court as to what happens as a result.
The current patent system has gotta go.

Zaft
Jul 1, 2012, 09:53 AM
I think people need to realize that apple focuses more on apps then anything else. This is why majority of apps run and look better on IOS then on android.

nickchallis92
Jul 1, 2012, 01:14 PM
well quite frankly having watched the Jellybean conference, i can't see how ios6 could ever compete.

android really is the best mobile OS in the world

Calidude
Jul 1, 2012, 01:52 PM
I think people need to realize that apple focuses more on apps then anything else. This is why majority of apps run and look better on IOS then on android.
This is exactly right and its why so many things on iOS are crippled. Rather than let you upload photos through Safari, they want you to download a Flickr app, which is why it took until iOS6 to add that functionality, and nothing more.

matttye
Jul 1, 2012, 01:59 PM
I think people need to realize that apple focuses more on apps then anything else. This is why majority of apps run and look better on IOS then on android.

Very true, but they're doing it wrong. Apps are great, but they need to be able to interact deeply with the OS. For example, why can't the gallery upload/share pics to any image service the user has installed, why only a select few?

Native functionality is usually better. I don't want to open Facebook to upload to Facebook, then Dropbox to upload to Dropbox, then Flickr to upload to Flickr. I want to open the gallery to upload to all three of those things.

I don't want to open Pages to attach a pages document, then gallery to attach a picture to a separate email, I just want to attach both from the email compose screen.

Native is better!

nuckinfutz
Jul 1, 2012, 10:02 PM
I don't want to open Pages to attach a pages document, then gallery to attach a picture to a separate email, I just want to attach both from the email compose screen.

Native is better!

Too complex.

Steve Jobs on the difficulty of a file system (http://oleb.net/blog/2012/06/steve-jobs-on-the-file-system/)

in every user interface study we’ve ever done […], [we found] it’s pretty easy to learn how to use these things ‘til you hit the file system and then the learning curve goes vertical. So you ask yourself, why is the file system the face of the OS? Wouldn’t it be better if there was a better way to find stuff?

Now, e-mail, there’s always been a better way to find stuff. You don’t keep your e-mail on your file system, right? The app manages it. And that was the breakthrough, as an example, in iTunes. You don’t keep your music in the file system, that would be crazy. You keep it in this app that knows about music and knows how to find things in lots of different ways. Same with photos: we’ve got an app that knows all about photos. And these apps manage their own file storage. […]

And eventually, the file system management is just gonna be an app for pros and consumers aren’t gonna need to use it.

Steve had a lot of RDF but in this case he's 100% on target. The only people clamoring for uber file system management features are geeks and that's a niche compared to the masses that just want simplicity.

Zaft
Jul 1, 2012, 10:19 PM
Very true, but they're doing it wrong. Apps are great, but they need to be able to interact deeply with the OS. For example, why can't the gallery upload/share pics to any image service the user has installed, why only a select few?

Native functionality is usually better. I don't want to open Facebook to upload to Facebook, then Dropbox to upload to Dropbox, then Flickr to upload to Flickr. I want to open the gallery to upload to all three of those things.

I don't want to open Pages to attach a pages document, then gallery to attach a picture to a separate email, I just want to attach both from the email compose screen.

Native is better!

Most of what your mentioned is being implemented in ios6. As for the amount of services available, I think apple only puts what's popular and has a lot of users.

Zaft
Jul 1, 2012, 10:20 PM
This is exactly right and its why so many things on iOS are crippled. Rather than let you upload photos through Safari, they want you to download a Flickr app, which is why it took until iOS6 to add that functionality, and nothing more.

In IO6 you can now upload through safari

Wrathwitch
Jul 1, 2012, 11:59 PM
I would never allow Google now to collect my personal information. :mad:

LOL! Google already knows more than what you think they do about you. If you have ever done searches using google at home and don't wipe your cookies and cache every time you would be ASTOUNDED to see just how readily you give information.

Ever been surfing for something you are going to buy over the internet and just before you are about to do a transaction, you get this annoying pop up ad that for the most part you just close? Those ads are targeted to you based on your profile and browsing habits.

Things known by advertisers and companies based on cookies: credit rating, where you live, where you bank, where you work. Its amazing really...

matttye
Jul 2, 2012, 01:11 AM
Too complex.

Steve Jobs on the difficulty of a file system (http://oleb.net/blog/2012/06/steve-jobs-on-the-file-system/)



Steve had a lot of RDF but in this case he's 100% on target. The only people clamoring for uber file system management features are geeks and that's a niche compared to the masses that just want simplicity.

I fail to see how a filesystem is more complex in this example.

Current scenario:-

- open pages, select document, email it.
- open numbers, select document, email it.
- open keynote, select document, email it.
- open gallery, select document, email it.

Filesystem scenario:-

- open email, tap attach, select documents you want to attach, email them.

Clearly the latter is a lot more simple bearing in mind you'll only have to set up one email.

Most of what your mentioned is being implemented in ios6. As for the amount of services available, I think apple only puts what's popular and has a lot of users.

None of what I mentioned is being implemented in iOS 6. I watched the keynote.

Flickr has millions of users. As does Dropbox, amongst others. And Facebook was the most popular social site in the world when they added Twitter integration. They're clearly not adding everything that's popular.

DodgeV83
Jul 2, 2012, 02:45 AM
I fail to see how a filesystem is more complex in this example.

Current scenario:-

- open pages, select document, email it.
- open numbers, select document, email it.
- open keynote, select document, email it.
- open gallery, select document, email it.

Filesystem scenario:-

- open email, tap attach, select documents you want to attach, email them.

Clearly the latter is a lot more simple bearing in mind you'll only have to set up one email.



None of what I mentioned is being implemented in iOS 6. I watched the keynote.

Flickr has millions of users. As does Dropbox, amongst others. And Facebook was the most popular social site in the world when they added Twitter integration. They're clearly not adding everything that's popular.

While I won't debate which one is better, or easier for new users (I don't have the data), I will say I've had an incredible time teaching and explaining simple things to new computer users, like how to attach photos to someone in an email, and make sure you save a file in a specific place so you can organize it all and find it again. For someone new to computers, the idea of a "file system" seems to be a lot to grasp in my experience.

I've actually had someone say, "I'm looking at the picture right now, why can't I just click a button and send it to someone?" and I had to explain that it wouldn't work, since they'd have to setup Outlook with their email information, since that was the default application for mail on her computer. After explaining how to set this all up, I can't imagine she could have done this on her own. Actually I'm sure she couldn't, because she's been waiting for months for someone to help her do it!
When I look at our technology through the eyes of the "normal person", it starts to make more sense why Apple does things the way they do.

Meanee
Jul 2, 2012, 06:00 AM
Don't like getting banned? Don't steal from Apple or anyone else.

Steal what exactly? The Unified Search, that's been part of Windows Vista since launch in 2006 (before iPhone)? Hey, let's get all of Windows banned too!

It seems that as of late, Apple's strategy is this

1 - Find any existing technology that's not been patented
2 - Patent the above technology
3 - Sue the pants off anyone using it
4 - Profit

For example, inductive charging. Palm Pre had it. Or powermat. Or electric toothbrushes. I am still unsure how the hell they got a patent for a technology that's been out there for a while.

Google does whole "Don't be evil" thing and doesn't patent Android features. Result: Apple steals notification system. I wonder if they are going to patent that and claim it as their own, proceeding to sue every Android manufacturer for using it. Seems like something Apple would do.

taipan61
Jul 2, 2012, 06:03 AM
It seems that as of late, Apple's strategy is this

1 - Find any existing technology that's not been patented
2 - Patent the above technology
3 - Sue the pants off anyone using it
4 - Profit

For example, inductive charging. Palm Pre had it. Or powermat. Or electric toothbrushes. I am still unsure how the hell they got a patent for a technology that's been out there for a while.

sorry to say that has been everyone's strategy for awhile now, hell some companies even patent ideas just in case someone actually comes up with the actual product (i worked for one of those companies)...
so come up with a product or an idea, publish is, get sued, then get bought out for big $$$$!:D
set for the rest of your life...

matttye
Jul 2, 2012, 06:15 AM
While I won't debate which one is better, or easier for new users (I don't have the data), I will say I've had an incredible time teaching and explaining simple things to new computer users, like how to attach photos to someone in an email, and make sure you save a file in a specific place so you can organize it all and find it again. For someone new to computers, the idea of a "file system" seems to be a lot to grasp in my experience.

I've actually had someone say, "I'm looking at the picture right now, why can't I just click a button and send it to someone?" and I had to explain that it wouldn't work, since they'd have to setup Outlook with their email information, since that was the default application for mail on her computer. After explaining how to set this all up, I can't imagine she could have done this on her own. Actually I'm sure she couldn't, because she's been waiting for months for someone to help her do it!
When I look at our technology through the eyes of the "normal person", it starts to make more sense why Apple does things the way they do.

I understand what you're saying, but the current way makes it a lot more difficult for people who do understand how to use a filesystem. There surely has to be a way to satisfy everyone.

I don't see why they can't embed an option deep in the settings menu.

Exio
Jul 2, 2012, 06:46 AM
I think people need to realize that apple focuses more on apps then anything else. This is why majority of apps run and look better on IOS then on android.

Quality control keeps the spam apps out of iOS but it also limits developers a lot.
And the reason apps look better in some cases on iOS is because developers only need to develop for 2 platforms where android there are multiple.

----------

sorry to say that has been everyone's strategy for awhile now, hell some companies even patent ideas just in case someone actually comes up with the actual product (i worked for one of those companies)...
so come up with a product or an idea, publish is, get sued, then get bought out for big $$$$!:D
set for the rest of your life...

This is not everyone's strategy; This scheme is dedicated to "Patent Trolls" who stifle innovation. It's just embarrassing to be an established company that so called "innovates" and participate in this dark business practice.

----------

Too complex.

Steve Jobs on the difficulty of a file system (http://oleb.net/blog/2012/06/steve-jobs-on-the-file-system/)



Steve had a lot of RDF but in this case he's 100% on target. The only people clamoring for uber file system management features are geeks and that's a niche compared to the masses that just want simplicity.

How could it hurt anything besides Steve's ego to add an extra feature, if people will use it. It wouldn't force you to use it, it would just make it easier for those who do. Why must Apple only have one option for everything, more options the better.

Jagardn
Jul 2, 2012, 06:47 AM
There surely has to be a way to satisfy everyone. .

Have you been reading the threads on this forum. It should be clear that you can't satisfy everyone.

matttye
Jul 2, 2012, 06:52 AM
Have you been reading the threads on this forum. It should be clear that you can't satisfy everyone.

I'm talking about this specific shortcoming, not in general.

Meanee
Jul 2, 2012, 07:24 AM
While I won't debate which one is better, or easier for new users (I don't have the data), I will say I've had an incredible time teaching and explaining simple things to new computer users, like how to attach photos to someone in an email, and make sure you save a file in a specific place so you can organize it all and find it again. For someone new to computers, the idea of a "file system" seems to be a lot to grasp in my experience.

I've actually had someone say, "I'm looking at the picture right now, why can't I just click a button and send it to someone?" and I had to explain that it wouldn't work, since they'd have to setup Outlook with their email information, since that was the default application for mail on her computer. After explaining how to set this all up, I can't imagine she could have done this on her own. Actually I'm sure she couldn't, because she's been waiting for months for someone to help her do it!
When I look at our technology through the eyes of the "normal person", it starts to make more sense why Apple does things the way they do.

I had to explain it to accountants, salespeople, etc. Go to your Documents folder (pictures, videos, etc), look for the file that you need. Drag it into new email message, send.

Your example might as well start with "Bring computer home, remove it from the box...."

Zaft
Jul 2, 2012, 07:53 AM
I fail to see how a filesystem is more complex in this example.

Current scenario:-

- open pages, select document, email it.
- open numbers, select document, email it.
- open keynote, select document, email it.
- open gallery, select document, email it.

Filesystem scenario:-

- open email, tap attach, select documents you want to attach, email them.

Clearly the latter is a lot more simple bearing in mind you'll only have to set up one email.



None of what I mentioned is being implemented in iOS 6. I watched the keynote.

Flickr has millions of users. As does Dropbox, amongst others. And Facebook was the most popular social site in the world when they added Twitter integration. They're clearly not adding everything that's popular.

You mentioned that you didnt want to go into facebook to upoad a photo. you can now upload from galary in IOS6. You can also attach right from the email. Adding photos from safari is possible now in IO6. So some of what you mentioned wil be put in.

LSUtigers03
Jul 2, 2012, 08:27 AM
I find it hilarious that club android has to shout from the hilltops that android is running smooth.

Somehow I don't see Apple ever adding a "smoothness" feature...

Kind of similar to how club koolaid is beside themselves for iOS6 which is finally adding features that Android has had for years.

"You mean I can finally reject a call and have the phone send a text to the person? You've gotta be ******** kidding me. How does Apple do it?"

DodgeV83
Jul 2, 2012, 09:23 AM
I had to explain it to accountants, salespeople, etc. Go to your Documents folder (pictures, videos, etc), look for the file that you need. Drag it into new email message, send.

Your example might as well start with "Bring computer home, remove it from the box...."

I actually like to start with a detailed explanation of how RAM works, the difference between RAM and the OS paging file, and how the Registry can be your friend.

I considered showing her how to attach files via command-line first, but thought that would be mean :p

Meanee
Jul 2, 2012, 09:54 AM
I actually like to start with a detailed explanation of how RAM works, the difference between RAM and the OS paging file, and how the Registry can be your friend.

I considered showing her how to attach files via command-line first, but thought that would be mean :p

What, all that without a history lesson of x86 architecture for the end user? How could you! :eek: At least, have your users tell you the difference between IRQ and DMA.

DodgeV83
Jul 2, 2012, 10:09 AM
What, all that without a history lesson of x86 architecture for the end user? How could you! :eek: At least, have your users tell you the difference between IRQ and DMA.

:)

matttye
Jul 2, 2012, 12:05 PM
You mentioned that you didnt want to go into facebook to upoad a photo. you can now upload from galary in IOS6. You can also attach right from the email. Adding photos from safari is possible now in IO6. So some of what you mentioned wil be put in.

It wasn't so much Facebook specifically that I was hoping for, but the ability to upload to any services that support the APIs like I can on Android.

Likewise with file attachments; I mentioned pictures as an example, but I want to be able to attach any type of file to an e-mail.

Technarchy
Jul 3, 2012, 03:17 AM
We installed Jelly Bean on my friend's GNEX yesterday. Nice little update. Some little things were wonky because the ROM was bootleg, not official, but overall its got some nifty additions.

GS3 Touchwiz is still smoother than project peanut butter or whatever it's called.

I still prefer iOS

kevinof
Jul 3, 2012, 04:37 AM
Touchwiz is mainly a launcher that sits on top of the OS (couple of additional apps and changes to others) so I doubt its going to be smoother than jelly bean. I know there are some additional speedups done by Samsung in terms of memory management and graphics i/o but my experience is that Touchwiz is rarely smoother or faster than stock.

Then again, I could be wrong.

We installed Jelly Bean on my friend's GNEX yesterday. Nice little update. Some little things were wonky because the ROM was bootleg, not official, but overall its got some nifty additions.

GS3 Touchwiz is still smoother than project peanut butter or whatever it's called.

I still prefer iOS

monkeylui
Jul 3, 2012, 05:26 AM
ICS runs pretty great on my galaxy s3. But not as great as I've had is run on my iPhone 4s. But it's like 1/2 notch down. Jelly Bean will be great on this hen once it's released. It's the only thing I worry about is the length of time to update. But being that galaxy s3 is a "flagship" phone, I'm sure it'll come sooner rather than later.

Calidude
Jul 3, 2012, 05:43 AM
I am flabbergasted at how close Jelly Bean and iOS6 are on this Macrumors poll.

Apple is really screwing up this year. iPhone 5/6 had better be one hell of a phone or people are going to move in droves to the quad-core Android phones coming this Fall.

Technarchy
Jul 3, 2012, 06:45 AM
Touchwiz is mainly a launcher that sits on top of the OS (couple of additional apps and changes to others) so I doubt its going to be smoother than jelly bean. I know there are some additional speedups done by Samsung in terms of memory management and graphics i/o but my experience is that Touchwiz is rarely smoother or faster than stock.

Then again, I could be wrong.

Touchwiz is not just a launcher. Samsung's changes go way down to the kernel with extensive recoding to how the UI Instructions are handled and rendered compared to stock android.

Touchwiz 2.0 was moving along at 60fps on the GS2 when stock gingerbread, honeycomb and ICS were capped at 30fps.

Zaft
Jul 3, 2012, 09:07 AM
I am flabbergasted at how close Jelly Bean and iOS6 are on this Macrumors poll.

Apple is really screwing up this year. iPhone 5/6 had better be one hell of a phone or people are going to move in droves to the quad-core Android phones coming this Fall.

This sounds awfully familiar.. oh thats becuase i heard that same thing the past two years..

Apple will do fine and so will Android

maflynn
Jul 3, 2012, 09:11 AM
Apple is really screwing up this year.
Please provide some details to what apple is screwing up. the iPhone 4S is wildly popular, the iPad continues to sell in high volume. Their retina MBP is selling to such an extent that the lead time continues to be pegged out to a month.

Just because iOS or the iPhone is not your cup of tea means you have to continually knock it or users who chose to own the iPhone.

onthecouchagain
Jul 3, 2012, 09:14 AM
As much converted to ICS as I am, and as much as the boat is sailing for me and the iPhone, my siding with the "Android-fans" on this forum ends there.

I still think the next-gen iPhone will sell like hot cakes, and be wildly successful. There was a recent report (from yesterday) that iOS gained 3x the marketshare than Android recently, or something to that effect. This is not surprising.

It's becoming very clear that iOS is meant for a very specific target audience. Some of us happily fall into that target, and others have outgrown it and will migrate. Nothing wrong with either. It's everyone's own losses/gains.

EDIT: It is pretty wild though that this poll is this close. But again, this speaks very little of iOS/iPhone's reception out in the real world.

Calidude
Jul 3, 2012, 09:17 AM
Please provide some details to what apple is screwing up. the iPhone 4S is wildly popular, the iPad continues to sell in high volume. Their retina MBP is selling to such an extent that the lead time continues to be pegged out to a month.

Just because iOS or the iPhone is not your cup of tea means you have to continually knock it or users who chose to own the iPhone.
Have you looked at this results of this poll? This would never be that close if Apple were doing a good job this year in regards to iPhone.

The iPhone user base is definitely starting to crack this year. The leaked iPhone design and iOS6, if not radically different when the holidays come around, will bring about quite the exodus, and you as a moderator will be able to witness it better than most people can.

That being said, iPhone will always sell well, but you'll see a notable dip in the userbase. All of the signs are there. You just don't want to see them.

OllyW
Jul 3, 2012, 10:01 AM
Have you looked at this results of this poll? This would never be that close if Apple were doing a good job this year in regards to iPhone.

That poll has only got 261 votes.

This survey (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/07/02/apple_ios_market_growth_doubles_android_over_last_three_months_report_says.html) takes in 30,000 mobile subscribers and contradicts what you are saying with Apple's iOS growth double Android's over the last three months.

mbell1975
Jul 3, 2012, 10:07 AM
That poll has only got 261 votes.

This survey (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/07/02/apple_ios_market_growth_doubles_android_over_last_three_months_report_says.html) takes in 30,000 mobile subscribers and contradicts what you are saying with Apple's iOS growth double Android's over the last three months.

Not bad. Google still owns a huge market share lead, Samsung still leads in mobile device sales and that growth number is going to swing way back towards Android once the S3 sales numbers start coming in. Be interesting to see what happens when the new iPhone comes out.

Calidude
Jul 3, 2012, 10:08 AM
That poll has only got 261 votes.

This survey (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/07/02/apple_ios_market_growth_doubles_android_over_last_three_months_report_says.html) takes in 30,000 mobile subscribers and contradicts what you are saying with Apple's iOS growth double Android's over the last three months.
RIM is clearly being bled out by the iPhone, and that was the past 3 months. People who come from a Blackberry aren't going to go with Android for the most part. They're going to go with the iPhone, unless Android becomes enterprise-hardened.

I'm not talking about users that are new to iPhone. I'm talking about current iPhone users. If the iPhone 5 looks the way it does in those leaked pictures come October with no big software features specifically for it other than the obvious NFC and LTE data management, you'll see iOS begin to lose its current user base to Android and Windows Phone.

maflynn
Jul 3, 2012, 10:17 AM
and you as a moderator will be able to witness it better than most people can.
And that's my point, as moderator, I see mostly a positive threads on the iPhone. It continues to be a rousing success for apple.

There are complaints about iOS6, but because its not out yet, I'm not really looking into it nor am I concerned.

nuckinfutz
Jul 3, 2012, 11:02 AM
I'm not talking about users that are new to iPhone. I'm talking about current iPhone users. If the iPhone 5 looks the way it does in those leaked pictures come October with no big software features specifically for it other than the obvious NFC and LTE data management, you'll see iOS begin to lose its current user base to Android and Windows Phone.

No. You're going to see Microsoft gain on Android. Android does not have a platform like Windows or Mac to buttress up against. If Anything a resurgent Microsoft is the worst thing that can happen for Android and to a lesser extent Apple.

mbell1975
Jul 3, 2012, 11:35 AM
No. You're going to see Microsoft gain on Android. Android does not have a platform like Windows or Mac to buttress up against. If Anything a resurgent Microsoft is the worst thing that can happen for Android and to a lesser extent Apple.

After the disaster that was brand new Windows 7 phones not getting the Windows 8 update, you can forget that dream. They weren't selling great to begin with and would have to sell oh I dunno, 700 billion phones to get anywhere close to Android's market share :)

Shadow%20Mac
Jul 3, 2012, 11:48 AM
iOS6 features = Google Android 1.0 features

iOS5 notification center = Google Android 2.0 notifiction center

iOS6 is a step up for developers, but feature wise for the consumer, it's a bunch of copying from Android.

As for smoothness of the OS, GB 2.3.5 was smooth and ICS just gave Android a turbo boost on all mobile devices running that OS. My S3 in stock form is faster than a jailbroken and tweaked to the hilt iPhone 4s in every way.

I, and many on here, use both Android and iOS on a daily basis. We have the experience to know which is faster. The iFaithful that spout baseless crap from only using an iPhone, have very little credibility.

I'm sorry, but you are saying is just factually incorrect. I do not like iOS, and I think that Android is the superior OS, at least in their current forms, but you have to give Apple credit for what they have done correctly. Sure, there are a couple of Android handsets which are smoother than their counterparts, but, for the most part, Android is a fragmented mess of ****** performance thanks to OEM skins and carrier bloatware. Say what you will, but iOS does not and will never suffer from those issues. I know you can root your phone and "clean it up" to enhance its UI performance, but is that something you should have to do? iOS, for all its flaws, simply just works. Right out of the box, they way you would expect it to. And this is coming from a Galaxy Nexus user. Get your information straight, and stop posting inflammatory remarks with sarcastic endings.

mbell1975
Jul 3, 2012, 11:58 AM
I'm sorry, but you are saying is just factually incorrect. I do not like iOS, and I think that Android is the superior OS, at least in their current forms, but you have to give Apple credit for what they have done correctly. Sure, there are a couple of Android handsets which are smoother than their counterparts, but, for the most part, Android is a fragmented mess of ****** performance thanks to OEM skins and carrier bloatware. Say what you will, but iOS does not and will never suffer from those issues. I know you can root your phone and "clean it up" to enhance its UI performance, but is that something you should have to do? iOS, for all its flaws, simply just works. Right out of the box, they way you would expect it to. And this is coming from a Galaxy Nexus user. Get your information straight, and stop posting inflammatory remarks with sarcastic endings.

he's right though :rolleyes:

onthecouchagain
Jul 3, 2012, 02:50 PM
Verge review of JB is up: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/3/3134347/android-4-1-jelly-bean-review

I am insanely excited to get this update.

"Reasonable people can — and should — disagree about whether Jelly Bean bests Apple's iOS or Microsoft's Windows Phone. In truth, I don't think we've seen everything that either of those competing operating systems will bring to the table by the end of the year. However, compared to what they bring to the table today, I think Jelly Bean is a stronger offering, especially if you're a participant in the Google ecosystem."

Frankied22
Jul 3, 2012, 03:05 PM
Verge review of JB is up: http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/3/3134347/android-4-1-jelly-bean-review

I am insanely excited to get this update.

"Reasonable people can — and should — disagree about whether Jelly Bean bests Apple's iOS or Microsoft's Windows Phone. In truth, I don't think we've seen everything that either of those competing operating systems will bring to the table by the end of the year. However, compared to what they bring to the table today, I think Jelly Bean is a stronger offering, especially if you're a participant in the Google ecosystem."

I'm running it on my Nexus right now and I'm loving it. Project Butter is no joke. It makes the phone super fast. Also, Google Now spanks Siri.

onthecouchagain
Jul 3, 2012, 03:15 PM
I'm running it on my Nexus right now and I'm loving it. Project Butter is no joke. It makes the phone super fast. Also, Google Now spanks Siri.

Are you using the stock keyboard? How is predictive text?

I email a lot and the improved keyboard is the thing I'm most looking forward to. So excited Google will finally be adding shortcuts too -- something I still long for from my BB days (and one of the rare features of the iOS keyboard I was envious of).

mlmwalt
Jul 3, 2012, 03:26 PM
RIM is clearly being bled out by the iPhone, and that was the past 3 months. People who come from a Blackberry aren't going to go with Android for the most part. They're going to go with the iPhone, unless Android becomes enterprise-hardened.

I'm not talking about users that are new to iPhone. I'm talking about current iPhone users. If the iPhone 5 looks the way it does in those leaked pictures come October with no big software features specifically for it other than the obvious NFC and LTE data management, you'll see iOS begin to lose its current user base to Android and Windows Phone.

My BB Storm2 had the best keyboard with the 2 letters per key, predictive text and customizable dictonary. It was next level even compared to the current stuff. I graduated to the 4s but it's not in the same league.

Grolubao
Jul 3, 2012, 03:40 PM
I'm sorry, but you are saying is just factually incorrect. I do not like iOS, and I think that Android is the superior OS, at least in their current forms, but you have to give Apple credit for what they have done correctly. Sure, there are a couple of Android handsets which are smoother than their counterparts, but, for the most part, Android is a fragmented mess of ****** performance thanks to OEM skins and carrier bloatware. Say what you will, but iOS does not and will never suffer from those issues. I know you can root your phone and "clean it up" to enhance its UI performance, but is that something you should have to do? iOS, for all its flaws, simply just works. Right out of the box, they way you would expect it to. And this is coming from a Galaxy Nexus user. Get your information straight, and stop posting inflammatory remarks with sarcastic endings.

Is it normal that I always need to wait for the kindness of the hackers so I can jailbreak my iPhone and install SbSettings to have toggles on the lock screen? At least rooting is more available than Jailbreaking...

j4zb4
Jul 3, 2012, 04:15 PM
Features hahah. Notice how Google wants to do EVERYTHING for people rather than do what a platform provider should do and just back up and let your apps do the hard work.

Meanwhile Apple creates Auto Layout so that I can have a UI that tailors itself smartly. Great if I want to address portrait vs landscape or or even account for text in some languages that are longer/shorter than others.

Apples Map has the ideal way to deal with Transit routes. Let the developers handle it rather than trying to funnel their hard work through a generic service (GTFS). Expect iOS Transit apps to be far better and more current

iCloud for easy document sync.

Accessibility settings that allow you to ensure that the child that is using the iPhone or iPad stays in the intended app

It's not even close. Most of the people at Google I/O are press that oooh and ahhh over everything. WWDC is about delivering features that people can earn a living of of.



No. It's because Google is a web company and doesn't understand how to deal with graphic and CPU pipelines. Apple's been doing it for decades with their OS and it shows. It's not about being locked down it's about knowing how to leverage threads and compute resources. Google is woefully outmatched here.

----------



LOL. You keep on believing that.

You are wasting your breath... The cheap Fandroid users who are jealous that they will never be able to afford an iPhone keep spouting all the rubbish they can to keep convincing themselves... Its alright... Don't break their bubble... It's bad manners... :p

aohus
Jul 3, 2012, 05:46 PM
You are wasting your breath... The cheap Fandroid users who are jealous that they will never be able to afford an iPhone keep spouting all the rubbish they can to keep convincing themselves... Its alright... Don't break their bubble... It's bad manners... :p

typical corporate apple fanboy hipster comment.

i like both ecosystems, i just prefer the OS that better suits my productivity needs, and it happens to be Android.

chiefpavvy
Jul 3, 2012, 05:53 PM
typical corporate apple fanboy hipster comment.

i like both ecosystems, i just prefer the OS that better suits my productivity needs, and it happens to be Android.

Study after study shows Android users ARE cheap skates. They spend next to nothing on apps and purchases. That can't be denied.

It's not fanboyism, just simple economics.

batting1000
Jul 3, 2012, 05:57 PM
Study after study shows Android users ARE cheap skates. They spend next to nothing on apps and purchases. That can't be denied.

It's not fanboyism, just simple economics.

http://gigaom.com/apple/ios-users-buy-more-apps-and-pay-more-for-them/

TennisandMusic
Jul 3, 2012, 06:34 PM
You are wasting your breath... The cheap Fandroid users who are jealous that they will never be able to afford an iPhone keep spouting all the rubbish they can to keep convincing themselves... Its alright... Don't break their bubble... It's bad manners... :p

Hmm...I buy all my phones off contract, and I am going to ditch my 64gb 4S (or rather, I already have) for a Galaxy Nexus, which I also bought off contract. And it's not a big deal at all.

Only really sad individuals buy into the iPhone-as-a-status-symbol way of thinking.

jeffe
Jul 3, 2012, 06:37 PM
Makes sense - some popular apps that cost money on IOS are available for free on Android.

Study after study shows Android users ARE cheap skates. They spend next to nothing on apps and purchases. That can't be denied.

It's not fanboyism, just simple economics.

blackhand1001
Jul 3, 2012, 06:42 PM
You are wasting your breath... The cheap Fandroid users who are jealous that they will never be able to afford an iPhone keep spouting all the rubbish they can to keep convincing themselves... Its alright... Don't break their bubble... It's bad manners... :p

Yeah because the best selling android phone right now (galaxy siii) is so cheap and the people buying it clearly can't afford an iphone. :rolleyes:

chiefpavvy
Jul 3, 2012, 06:45 PM
Makes sense - some popular apps that cost money on IOS are available for free on Android.

Some...if you like advertising, and lots of it.

That is simply an admission of the fact they are cheap skates, and hoping the sheer number of them generates enough ad $$$ to replace the loss of a buck or two initially for the app.

aohus
Jul 3, 2012, 06:48 PM
Study after study shows Android users ARE cheap skates. They spend next to nothing on apps and purchases. That can't be denied.

It's not fanboyism, just simple economics.

um, i was referring to him saying that android users can't afford iPhone. Had nothing to do with apps.

le sigh. reading comprehension isn't strong in these forums.

Technarchy
Jul 3, 2012, 06:50 PM
Makes sense - some popular apps that cost money on IOS are available for free on Android.

No, this reasoning does not hold water.

iOS generates more ecommerce than android.
iTunes is a multibillion dollar ecosystem while Google play is not even a 10th of that.
iOS generates more web traffic than android.
iOS generates more ad impressions than android.
iOS generates more revenue for Google than android.

Essentially iOS users are more engaged and using their device for more than calling and texting, while android use is akin to a feature phone, cheap in terms of buying apps and shopping online and smart phone illiterate.

Aftershocker
Jul 3, 2012, 06:52 PM
I prefer Ios but I would be tempted to try out Android (on a stock device, IE no skin) just to have access to a bigger screen. The new rumored iphone dimensions don't do anything for me, as I'd prefer the screen wider in portrait as well.

Probably never happen, every time I pick up and android device it feels cheep and plasticy, but you never know.

3bs
Jul 3, 2012, 07:02 PM
Yeah because the best selling android phone right now (galaxy siii) is so cheap and the people buying it clearly can't afford an iphone. :rolleyes:

I don't get why the people who use Android phones are referred to as cheap and can't afford a "real phone" like an iPhone. I've only owned a Galaxy Nexus for 2 weeks and went back to my 4S because it suited me better but I gave Android a try and I enjoyed it and even miss it a bit.

Exio
Jul 3, 2012, 07:05 PM
http://gigaom.com/apple/ios-users-buy-more-apps-and-pay-more-for-them/

What relevance? The same people who generally use iOS devices are the same people who waste thousands on itunes music. They don't know any better, and they don't know how to get digital media for free/directly from the creator, instead of paying apple a huge premium that rips off of developers and musicians.

chiefpavvy
Jul 3, 2012, 07:06 PM
What relevance? The same people who generally use iOS devices are the same people who waste thousands on itunes music. They don't know any better, and they don't know how to get digital media for free/directly from the creator, instead of paying apple a huge premium that rips off of developers and musicians.

Translation: iOS users believe folks should be paid for their work. I guess that's why developers flock to iOS. It almost makes sense!

Radio
Jul 3, 2012, 07:09 PM
Underwhelmed really.

iOS 6 is underwhelming now. I hope for Apple's sake they offer new features that we haven't seen yet.

Google is looking much more impressive. I'd hate to leave the Apple ecosystem.

Exio
Jul 3, 2012, 07:11 PM
Translation: iOS users believe folks should be paid for their work. I guess that's why developers flock to iOS. It almost makes sense!

Yea except the margins that Apple takes away from musicians and developers is a greedy joke.

chiefpavvy
Jul 3, 2012, 07:19 PM
Yea except the margins that Apple takes away from musicians and developers is a greedy joke.

You think Apple's 30/70 split is a "greedy joke"? Just a question for ya, what do you think the split is on the Android side?

----------

8 months in, less than 11% of Android users on ICS (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/07/03/8_months_in_11_of_android_users_run_40_ice_cream_sandwich.html)

Exio
Jul 3, 2012, 07:25 PM
You think Apple's 30/70 split is a "greedy joke"? Just a question for ya, what do you think the split is on the Android side?

----------

8 months in, less than 11% of Android users on ICS (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/07/03/8_months_in_11_of_android_users_run_40_ice_cream_sandwich.html)


Yea, I do. Apple makes large margin's already off of their devices, they could definitely give back to developers a little bit. The 30/70 split is a large reason why we are starting to see more freeware apps. Also just a point, Google makes the majority of it's revenue through google searches and services on android, not on apps.

http://gigaom.com/mobile/why-google-isnt-worried-about-androids-revenue/

chiefpavvy
Jul 3, 2012, 07:30 PM
Yea, I do. Apple makes large margin's already off of their devices, they could definitely give back to developers a little bit. The 30/70 split is a large reason why we are starting to see more freeware apps. Also just a point, Google makes the majority of it's revenue through google searches and services on android, not on apps.

http://gigaom.com/mobile/why-google-isnt-worried-about-androids-revenue/

You are comparing apples to oranges :rolleyes:

I know fAndroids are jealous of the fact that Apple is able to rake in such a large percentage of the profit in the overall phone market, with a relatively small percentage of the overall device pie. But let's try to compare apples to apples.

The 70/30 split is the same on Android as it is on Apple. (Yep, they copied that too!)

As for revenue - you are right. The problem with your assessment is the pesky little fact that Google actually makes more off iOS than it does Android!

aohus
Jul 3, 2012, 07:33 PM
I know fAndroids are jealous of the fact that Apple is able to rake in such a large percentage of the profit in the overall phone market

YEAH MAN, like the average consumer actually cares about how large Apple's profit margins are. Yeah bro, Android enthusiasts are totally jealous.

Get off the corporate fanboyism train bud, you're making yourself look like a tool who blindly supports a publicly trading company whose interest is at the behest of shareholders/investors.

And this goes both ways. Corporate fanboyism makes me go :confused:

geoffm33
Jul 3, 2012, 07:33 PM
Yea, I do. Apple makes large margin's already off of their devices, they could definitely give back to developers a little bit. The 30/70 split is a large reason why we are starting to see more freeware apps. Also just a point, Google makes the majority of it's revenue through google searches and services on android, not on apps.

http://gigaom.com/mobile/why-google-isnt-worried-about-androids-revenue/

What are the splits for the Android store? Isn't it 70% to the developer and 30% to the carriers? 70% = 70%, devs make out the same in either case right?

chiefpavvy
Jul 3, 2012, 07:34 PM
YEAH MAN, like the average consumer actually cares about how large Apple's profit margins are. Yeah bro, Android enthusiasts are totally jealous.

No, of course they don't. The average consumer wouldn't care about 99.9999% of what is discussed here. I'm talking to those here, the enthusiasts, who DO care about such things. Obviously.

Exio
Jul 3, 2012, 07:35 PM
You are comparing apples to oranges :rolleyes:

I know fAndroids are jealous of the fact that Apple is able to rake in such a large percentage of the profit in the overall phone market, with a relatively small percentage of the overall device pie. But let's try to compare apples to apples.

The 70/30 split is the same on Android as it is on Apple. (Yep, they copied that too!)

As for revenue - you are right. The problem with your assessment is the pesky little fact that Google actually makes more off iOS than it does Android!


I'm jealous because Apple rakes in more money? How does that affect me in anyway? As for your last point, that is true, but for sake of this argument, please explain how it's relevant?

chiefpavvy
Jul 3, 2012, 07:36 PM
What are the splits for the Android store? Isn't it 70% to the developer and 30% to the carriers? 70% = 70%, devs make out the same in either case right?

Yes, precisely.

But that's not how a fAndroid's mind works. It's kind of like how a certain "big company" can be bashed over and over, worked through the mill, but yet they [the other side] use the hell out of said company's products and services. And similarly, they [fAndroid's] see no hypocrisy in it.

aohus
Jul 3, 2012, 07:37 PM
No, of course they don't. The average consumer wouldn't care about 99.9999% of what is discussed here. I'm talking to those here, the enthusiasts, who DO care about such things. Obviously.

The only people that WOULD care are those that have financial personal interest in AAPL stock.

An enthusiast w/o this can care less.

chiefpavvy
Jul 3, 2012, 07:38 PM
I'm jealous because Apple rakes in more money? How does that affect me in anyway? As for your last point, that is true, but for sake of this argument, please explain how it's relevant?

I didn't say that. You came in to blast Apple for being "greedy" and I called you out on the fact that the split (70/30) is the same for both the Apple store and the Google one. Then you change the subject to cry about Apple making "a lot of profit" on the device itself. Now you don't see any relevance to said profits?!

B777Forevar
Jul 3, 2012, 08:37 PM
Can I say I like both jellybean and iOS6 (Even thought iOS6 is pretty lackluster)

Both have their ups and downs

Calidude
Jul 3, 2012, 08:51 PM
I didn't say that. You came in to blast Apple for being "greedy" and I called you out on the fact that the split (70/30) is the same for both the Apple store and the Google one. Then you change the subject to cry about Apple making "a lot of profit" on the device itself. Now you don't see any relevance to said profits?!
Why would Google go less than that? If Apple went to 80/20, so would Google. Apple has the biggest app store so everything revolves around their decisions, businesswise. We'll only see competitive pricing when there's more than 2 big app stores and somebody has to stand out.

nuckinfutz
Jul 3, 2012, 09:07 PM
iOS 6 is underwhelming now. I hope for Apple's sake they offer new features that we haven't seen yet.

Google is looking much more impressive. I'd hate to leave the Apple ecosystem.

If by features you mean silly things that the aren't necessary for the masses like Widgets or Toggles now. If think Apple is going to develop some facade like Google Now and start data mining users under the guise of "helping them" then you will be underwhelmed.

If you love great apps that make you "want" to leave the Springboard and enjoy them. If you like great UI design and abhor advertisements then iOS 6 is giving you more of what you love.

The choice is pretty simple.

Android - the platform where the app is an afterthought. It's merely a vehicle for Google advertising. Google would just as soon see you tinker around outside of the app.

iOS - the platform for developers. Apple spends an inordinate amount of time developing (or polishing) tools that give developers the freedom to differentiate their apps and add value.

If Apple only had to focus on a mobile platform that would be different but they've got a desktop platform that is developed simultaneously.

Sdahe
Jul 3, 2012, 09:08 PM
Why is Android always so laggy... from the beggining iOS was smooth. Android is now getting there but not yet.

This is interesting - http://www.phonearena.com/news/Here-is-why-Android-is-laggy-and-why-its-going-to-remain-like-that-in-the-near-future_id24434/

Kyrra
Jul 3, 2012, 09:16 PM
Why is Android always so laggy... from the beggining iOS was smooth. Android is now getting there but not yet.

Android tends to actually render their transitions (as if it was a 2d engine), but it was all done in software (not GPU accelerated). It's only recently that they've been focusing on visible performance to make things feel smoother.

iOS uses "Screenshots" to do all their fancy transitions (plus they GPU accelerate the entire UI). So it's really just a rendered picture that has transforms applied to it. This allows to create some really pretty transitions. If you go back near the beginning of iOS, their browser was crap when you scrolls or resized, because they would have to re-render. It's gotten a lot better over the years though.

Sdahe
Jul 3, 2012, 09:19 PM
Android tends to actually render their transitions (as if it was a 2d engine), but it was all done in software (not GPU accelerated). It's only recently that they've been focusing on visible performance to make things feel smoother.

iOS uses "Screenshots" to do all their fancy transitions (plus they GPU accelerate the entire UI). So it's really just a rendered picture that has transforms applied to it. This allows to create some really pretty transitions. If you go back near the beginning of iOS, their browser was crap when you scrolls or resized, because they would have to re-render. It's gotten a lot better over the years though.
So this means that Android will never be smooth like the iPhone is?...

Kyrra
Jul 3, 2012, 09:26 PM
This is interesting - http://www.phonearena.com/news/Here-is-why-Android-is-laggy-and-why-its-going-to-remain-like-that-in-the-near-future_id24434/

The kid quoted in that article makes some pretty wide assumptions without actually understanding how the Dalvik or Java VMs work. Especially his comments about Swing (java desktop apps). While Java makes it so the developer doesn't have to worry about freeing memory themselves, using memory inefficiently will cause lots of GC passes (Which can cause lag). Plus, most Java desktop apps got a bad rap because devs did heavy lifting in the Swing UI thread (rendering thread), which would freeze the UI.

Bad developers give Java a bad rap. It's Java's fault because they made it easier to get things working, and most devs don't spend the time to understand the GC and threading, which causes lots of **** programs.

chewietobbacca
Jul 4, 2012, 12:49 AM
Essentially iOS users are more engaged and using their device for more than calling and texting, while android use is akin to a feature phone, cheap in terms of buying apps and shopping online and smart phone illiterate.

That's a heck of a leap from cheap to smart phone illiterate.

How about a lot of Android users prefer not to pay more for the same thing they can get cheaper or free?

Hardly equates to smart phone illiterate

Personally, if I don't have to spend money and can get the same quality of service, I'm going for the free version

Technarchy
Jul 4, 2012, 01:03 AM
That's a heck of a leap from cheap to smart phone illiterate.

How about a lot of Android users prefer not to pay more for the same thing they can get cheaper or free?

Hardly equates to smart phone illiterate

Personally, if I don't have to spend money and can get the same quality of service, I'm going for the free version

Don't be obtuse.

Android holds the majority market share yet excels at basically nothing.

It doesn't make money in any sector of ecommerce like iOS.
It doesn't generate traffic like iOS.
It doesn't have developer support like iOS.

Essentially android is a net gain for no one, not even google which makes more on iOS. Android would need to sell like 2 billion additional phones this year to bring in as much money as iOS does with only a 30% of the global market.

Basically android and android users don't matter...a subject well written about here:
http://www.thestreet.mobi/story/11586384/1/android-users-dont-know-enough-to-matter.html

mbell1975
Jul 4, 2012, 01:11 AM
Don't be obtuse.

Android holds the majority market share yet excels at basically nothing.

It doesn't make money in any sector of ecommerce like iOS.
It doesn't generate traffic like iOS.
It doesn't have developer support like iOS.

Essentially android is a net gain for no one, not even google which makes more on iOS. Android would need to sell like 2 billion additional phones this year to bring in as much money as iOS does with only a 30% of the global market.

Basically android and android users don't matter...a subject well written about here:
http://www.thestreet.mobi/story/11586384/1/android-users-dont-know-enough-to-matter.html

Google makes no money from Android? LOL. You are utterly clueless, just stop. You make yourself look more like an ignorant fanboy with each post

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505124_162-57346049/android-crushes-iphone-makes-google-$5-billion/

Technarchy
Jul 4, 2012, 01:33 AM
Google makes no money from Android? LOL. You are utterly clueless, just stop. You make yourself look more like an ignorant fanboy with each post

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505124_162-57346049/android-crushes-iphone-makes-google-$5-billion/

I actually read the article. It doesn't mesh with googles numbers even remotely.

http://photos.appleinsider.com/Android2.042512.jpg

And speaking of ignorant fanboys, you're another outed phoney and a hypocrite.

In your own words:

/
How many Android threads do we need?
Where are the mods in this place? Isn't it about time to start locking these threads that have nothing to do with the iPhone and banning Android users just here to flame bait? Its gotten a bit ridiculous.

mbell1975
Jul 4, 2012, 01:38 AM
I actually read the article. It doesn't mesh with googles numbers even remotely.

Image (http://photos.appleinsider.com/Android2.042512.jpg)

That graph is over 2 years old LOL. Well before Android started to take over. Nice try though :rolleyes:

SR45
Jul 4, 2012, 06:45 AM
"How many Android threads do we need?
Where are the mods in this place? Isn't it about time to start locking these threads that have nothing to do with the iPhone and banning Android users just here to flame bait? Its gotten a bit ridiculous."


100% Agree with the above post. Its the same 4 or 5 Android owners that can't stay on the Android forums, since they are all fanboys of their system and has become boring to them, and come here day after day ranting, and bad mouthing the iPhone for nothing better to do. :apple:

If I had the Android phone I would not give a second thought going to another competitor forum and posting immature rants. However, those that do are just immature children with nothing better to do with their lives. God help them

DodgeV83
Jul 4, 2012, 07:01 AM
"How many Android threads do we need?
Where are the mods in this place? Isn't it about time to start locking these threads that have nothing to do with the iPhone and banning Android users just here to flame bait? Its gotten a bit ridiculous."


100% Agree with the above post. Its the same 4 or 5 Android owners that can't stay on the Android forums, since they are all fanboys of their system and has become boring to them, and come here day after day ranting, and bad mouthing the iPhone for nothing better to do. :apple:

If I had the Android phone I would not give a second thought going to another competitor forum and posting immature rants. However, those that do are just immature children with nothing better to do with their lives. God help them

Yes, the same people over and over and over, giving the same arguments day in and day out, turning every non-Android thread they see into the same circular debates.

Exio
Jul 4, 2012, 08:13 AM
"How many Android threads do we need?
Where are the mods in this place? Isn't it about time to start locking these threads that have nothing to do with the iPhone and banning Android users just here to flame bait? Its gotten a bit ridiculous."


100% Agree with the above post. Its the same 4 or 5 Android owners that can't stay on the Android forums, since they are all fanboys of their system and has become boring to them, and come here day after day ranting, and bad mouthing the iPhone for nothing better to do. :apple:

If I had the Android phone I would not give a second thought going to another competitor forum and posting immature rants. However, those that do are just immature children with nothing better to do with their lives. God help them

Most of those "immature children" you speak of, have been on macrumors for a while and just recently converted to android.

Radio
Jul 4, 2012, 08:43 AM
If by features you mean silly things that the aren't necessary for the masses like Widgets or Toggles now. If think Apple is going to develop some facade like Google Now and start data mining users under the guise of "helping them" then you will be underwhelmed.

If you love great apps that make you "want" to leave the Springboard and enjoy them. If you like great UI design and abhor advertisements then iOS 6 is giving you more of what you love.

The choice is pretty simple.

Android - the platform where the app is an afterthought. It's merely a vehicle for Google advertising. Google would just as soon see you tinker around outside of the app.

iOS - the platform for developers. Apple spends an inordinate amount of time developing (or polishing) tools that give developers the freedom to differentiate their apps and add value.

If Apple only had to focus on a mobile platform that would be different but they've got a desktop platform that is developed simultaneously.

I'll Agree that apps are an afterthought in android but they have better intergration with many services.

Sure apple now has twitter and Facebook but apple won't let me use gmail or chrome as my default programs.

Most Mac owners I know use those services. Having a continuous experience is key

phpmaven
Jul 4, 2012, 09:10 AM
Why is Android always so laggy... from the beggining iOS was smooth. Android is now getting there but not yet.

This is interesting - http://www.phonearena.com/news/Here-is-why-Android-is-laggy-and-why-its-going-to-remain-like-that-in-the-near-future_id24434/

That article is out of date. The new android phones out now are fast and buttery smooth. There is no issue any more with android being laggy. Judge between the two based on features, but performance is a non issue, if anything the most recent android phones are faster and perform better than the iPhone. I have a Galaxy SII that I've owned since before that article came out that I recently put ICS on it, and it's a really impressive experience and every bit as fast and smooth as the 4S.

nefan65
Jul 4, 2012, 09:20 AM
Most of those "immature children" you speak of, have been on macrumors for a while and just recently converted to android.

Then they should know better. Say it once and move on. If they like Android so much, and it's so much better, be happy and enjoy. Go to XDA' forum and have at it. It's old, and tiring...

Calidude
Jul 4, 2012, 09:46 AM
Most of those "immature children" you speak of, have been on macrumors for a while and just recently converted to android.
Correct. We've pretty much had it with Apple this year.

batting1000
Jul 4, 2012, 09:49 AM
Correct. We've pretty much had it with Apple this year.

And others like what they're seeing. There's no point in continuing to post on an Apple forum about how you've switched and JB is just amazing because all it starts it debates. Go to XDA if you want an Android community where you can talk bad about the iPhone all you want. The android Reddit page is also a good place.

onthecouchagain
Jul 4, 2012, 10:23 AM
All these out of date stats and articles just goes to show the argument against Android is running out of steam. Like I've said before, it's pure obfuscation and obscurantism, clinging onto the failings of Android from yesteryear.

Let them. They don't and likely won't understand that Android is a different model.

Beyond clearing up their BS, there's not much more you can do because it is their choice after all.

Meanwhile ICS/JB continue to propel Android forward at a far faster rate than iOS is moving.

batting1000
Jul 4, 2012, 10:30 AM
All these out of date stats and articles just goes to show the argument against Android is running out of steam. Like I've said before, it's pure obfuscation and obscurantism, clinging onto the failings of Android from yesteryear.

Let them. They don't and likely won't understand that Android is a different model.

Beyond clearing up their BS, there's not much more you can do because it is their choice after all.

Meanwhile ICS/JB continue to propel Android forward at a far faster rate than iOS is moving.

Except the most recent comscore data shows iOS moved up more than Android did.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/02/comscore-may-2012-smartphone/

mbell1975
Jul 4, 2012, 10:33 AM
Except the most recent comscore data shows iOS moved up more than Android did.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/02/comscore-may-2012-smartphone/

A whopping .8 higher than Android, wow. That's going to disappear when next quarters numbers are out thanks to S3 sales.

SR45
Jul 4, 2012, 10:44 AM
Most of those "immature children" you speak of, have been on macrumors for a while and just recently converted to android.

Fully aware of that Exio, but the issue of being a jerk staying on this iPhone forum ranting over and over again on the same topic is boring and getting out of hand, and the Moderator should at least have an Android sub-topic for those that are mentally Andriod driven challenge to post on for their badly needed therapy. :D

I selected the iPhone for its mature look, size, and iOS. Returned a Galaxy III S sometime ago because it was not to my liking, and too darn wide, but I have not, nor will ever go onto the Android forum and rant. Too grown up for that.

mbell1975
Jul 4, 2012, 12:14 PM
Returned a Galaxy III S sometime ago because it was not to my liking, and too darn wide

So you expect us to believe you jumped on a preorder for a phone, paid for it in full and then returned it because it was too wide? Right :rolleyes: Just the fact that you did that (if its true) shows that you must not be happy with your iPhone. If you were, you would have no need to buy another phone.

onthecouchagain
Jul 4, 2012, 06:38 PM
Except the most recent comscore data shows iOS moved up more than Android did.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/02/comscore-may-2012-smartphone/


Um, that's not what I meant.

SR45
Jul 5, 2012, 08:33 AM
So you expect us to believe you jumped on a preorder for a phone, paid for it in full and then returned it because it was too wide? Right :rolleyes: Just the fact that you did that (if its true) shows that you must not be happy with your iPhone. If you were, you would have no need to buy another phone.

Goofed. Should have posted that it was a Galaxy II S not Galaxy III. Now please go back to the Android forum for your Therapy class since you no longer have an iPhone and dislike it so much you moved on to a Android

rendevouspoo
Jul 5, 2012, 08:43 AM
Essentially iOS users are more engaged and using their device for more than calling and texting, while android use is akin to a feature phone, cheap in terms of buying apps and shopping online and smart phone illiterate.


This is not at all true. iOS is simple to use, which is what makes it great btw. Android is HIGHLY customizable with limitless possibilities as to what the users can do. You're right though. The illiterate are the only ones that use Android powered phones.

NovemberWhiskey
Jul 7, 2012, 04:32 AM
Disagree. The fact that you cant even do something as simple in iOS as changing your default browser when you click a link in an email to changing keyboards easily to downloading and setting a custom ringtone without using iTunes is laughable. Not to mention all the other things you can't do with iOS.

uh, how does that contradict with anything I said? Don't know what you are disagreeing about at all.

matttye
Jul 7, 2012, 04:43 AM
uh, how does that contradict with anything I said? Don't know what you are disagreeing about at all.

Think he's responding to the user experience bit.

It's not good user experience to keep having the default browser forced on you when you'd rather use something else. Imagine for example that someone uses a browser with Flash. They get a link emailed to them with flash content. Every time they open that link it's going to open in Safari, and they'll then have to copy and paste that link to the other browser.

Another user experience fail is no file system. If I want to attach different types of documents to the same e-mail, it's impossible in iOS. I couldn't attach a pages document and a numbers document to the same e-mail, I'd have to send two separate ones. You should be able to attach anything straight from the e-mail compose screen.

----------

No, this reasoning does not hold water.

iOS generates more ecommerce than android.
iTunes is a multibillion dollar ecosystem while Google play is not even a 10th of that.
iOS generates more web traffic than android.
iOS generates more ad impressions than android.
iOS generates more revenue for Google than android.

Essentially iOS users are more engaged and using their device for more than calling and texting, while android use is akin to a feature phone, cheap in terms of buying apps and shopping online and smart phone illiterate.

You talk drivel.

This is why statistics shouldn't be used to jump to conclusions. Obviously the cheapest Android phones may well be used like that (which is what they're actually aiming to do -- compete with feature phones), but nobody buys a £500 flagship device like the Galaxy S3 to simply call and text.

j4zb4
Jul 11, 2012, 02:21 PM
typical corporate apple fanboy hipster comment.

i like both ecosystems, i just prefer the OS that better suits my productivity needs, and it happens to be Android.



Yeah because the best selling android phone right now (galaxy siii) is so cheap and the people buying it clearly can't afford an iphone. :rolleyes:

Hmm...I buy all my phones off contract, and I am going to ditch my 64gb 4S (or rather, I already have) for a Galaxy Nexus, which I also bought off contract. And it's not a big deal at all.

Only really sad individuals buy into the iPhone-as-a-status-symbol way of thinking.

*Sigh*

I know truth hurts... Baddd...

Anyways it was just said in jest... Maybe you guys should take the smiley classes before commenting on a forum...

And for the bold line... Oh for GOD's sake please learn something new...

p.s.: @Blackhand... I don't know where you live... But, where I live, we only get off contract phones... And the S3 is cheaper than the iPhone by 33%... That is a lot of money...

blackhand1001
Jul 11, 2012, 03:29 PM
*Sigh*

I know truth hurts... Baddd...

Anyways it was just said in jest... Maybe you guys should take the smiley classes before commenting on a forum...

And for the bold line... Oh for GOD's sake please learn something new...

p.s.: @Blackhand... I don't know where you live... But, where I live, we only get off contract phones... And the S3 is cheaper than the iPhone by 33%... That is a lot of money...
I live in the us. Off contract pricing is pretty similar here for the two. The s3 is clearly a better deal for the money though.

j4zb4
Jul 12, 2012, 12:49 AM
I live in the us. Off contract pricing is pretty similar here for the two. The s3 is clearly a better deal for the money though.

Hmmm...

About the better deal, to each his own I guess... Been a Nokia user since I started using cell phones... I used to change my phones every 6 months... The iPhone 2G was the first ever phone which lasted me 3 years... Just because I didn't like any phone after using the iphone, the 3G didn't impress me much and when the 4 launched didn't have enough money... Finally when the 2G was shattered I decided to dip into the berry pool... Used the Bold 2 for 3 months and was ready to smash it against the wall by the end of the 3rd month... And then decided to fiddle buy an android to get the iphone feel at a cheaper price... Spent a year with the Desire Z... And I was cursing myself almost 4 months later... Had to buy an extra battery just so I could last a day... And the experience wasn't anything to write home about either... So for me the iPhone is seriously a headache free deal... :D

edit: Also I have been anti-samsung since many years now... Infact be it Korean cars or Home appliances (read: Hyundai, KIA, LG, Samsung) I have been very put off by them... I would never buy or recommend a Samsung... :p

Yea Yea I know many parts of the iPhone are by Samsung... But, there is a difference between the two...

depths
Jul 12, 2012, 02:12 AM
So you only like Korean components if they're in your iPhone? Are you the CEO of Foxconn?

rogotoko
Jul 15, 2012, 08:59 AM
First of all, I'm a MacBook lover, but that's where my relationship with Apple ends. I don't have the iPad, iPhone, iShoes, iHairbrush, etc... I had an iPhone. After each jailbreak and working out the glitches; while trying to get my Google voice to work, while trying to afford all the pay for apps, and so on and so on, I finally went to a Droid Razr. This bad boy is quick. 4g has been great to have. Also, I don't need to root to get the things I want on this stock phone. I don't worship it. I just use it for what I need. I drop it and toss it. It's a phone, not a religion. If you insult it, I don't cry.

When I first got a Mac, it was a nerd item, but then they became cool. After a while, they became fashionable and elitists started wanting them. It became a desirable brand over the years. Yet, the masses still couldn't quite justify purchasing such an expensive computer for the limited needs they had. Let's face it, the majority of people purchasing Mac's aren't video editing or graphic designing. They are surfing the web; maybe even composing text documents. When the iPod came along, it granted the people who couldn't afford a Mac access to an exclusive club. Even thought there were better MP3 players on the market, they bought it. They even got a sticker to put on their car window to show everyone. Then with the later invention of an iPhone, the have-nots were able to show everyone how special they were, by having the exact same phones as everyone else. lol.

Want to see people argue over which microwave oven is the best? Put an "i" in front of it and see what happens.

JetBlack7
Jul 15, 2012, 09:03 AM
So you expect us to believe you jumped on a preorder for a phone, paid for it in full and then returned it because it was too wide? Right :rolleyes: Just the fact that you did that (if its true) shows that you must not be happy with your iPhone. If you were, you would have no need to buy another phone.

Or maybe he has been using the iPhone for years and was just curious to try an Android phone.

onthecouchagain
Jul 15, 2012, 07:28 PM
Wow wow wow. Jelly Bean is fast.

I just got the update. I always thought ICS was fast, but JB is ridiculous. It really has to be seen and felt to be believed. And the UI is just insanely slick. I love how apps "enlarge" (almost like the Genie effect in OSX) from their icons.

I also love that you can swipe right from the camera to view pictures. This is a great steal from Windows Phone 7.

I don't like that the Google Search bar is now entirely gray. I much preferred the completely see-through search bar.

These are just early impressions.

MORE: Google Now is really really impressive, though I don't predict I'll find myself keeping it on. Searching via voice though is amazing. The dictation is so much more accurate than Siri.

Keyboard short cuts is a bit of a disappointment. I don't like how they offer the shortcut correction as a suggestion in the suggestion bar. It should just automatically switch to it no matter what. For example, I want to make "otca" a shortcut for "onthecouchagain". It should auto change to "onthecouchagain" every time I type "otca" as oppose to just offering "onthecouchagain" as a word in the suggestion bar. Boo Google on this.

I hate a lot on the iOS keyboard, but they get shortcuts right.

batting1000
Jul 15, 2012, 07:39 PM
I also love that you can swipe right from the camera to view pictures. This is a great steal from Windows Phone 7.

But when Apple did this, Android users and WP users cried how it was stolen. Now that it's finally on Android, everything's all fine and dandy again.

onthecouchagain
Jul 15, 2012, 07:49 PM
But when Apple did this, Android users and WP users cried how it was stolen. Now that it's finally on Android, everything's all fine and dandy again.

I never cried about that. I've always been realistic about stealing, and I've said many times here on this forum that I wish Apple stole more from Google (would love it if iOS stole from the better parts of mail, keyboard, chrome, etc. from Google). "Stealing" just means everyone's OS gets better, I've always been okay with this.

The only time I complain about stealing is when people say that if Apple steals, it's "following industry standards." But when others steal from Apple, "nobody can innovate and they're just all copycats." : cough Samsung Galaxy SIII cough :

onthecouchagain
Jul 15, 2012, 10:21 PM
More thoughts on JB for anyone curious...

-The swiftkey predictions are great and all, but I find it's faster to just type out exactly what I say, than to hope that the prediction gets it right. It slows things down too to have to look at the suggestion bar to decide if it's the next word I want or not. Luckily predictions can be turned off, and the keyboard is amazingly fast and accurate enough to just get things right without the predictions.

-However, the shortcuts is mishandled by Google, in my opinion. If there's one thing the iOS keyboard gets right, it's shortcuts. Google should offer the option to allow shortcuts to automatically change to the phrase I want, instead of just offering it as a suggestion in the suggestion bar. (Speaking of the suggestion bar, I sort of wish Google would squeeze in even more words in the suggestion bar. I could see it offering 4 or 5 words at a time, versus the standard 3.)

-Notifications are awesome, but I kind of wish you could swipe down on a notification to expand it, instead of using two fingers. Having to use two fingers means you can expand it with one hand usage, and that sort of stinks.

-Google Now is amazing in what little I've used of it, but I can't see myself leaving it on.

I know I sound negative. The reality is JB is unbelievably amazing, even more so than I thought it'd be. Just pointing out a few disappointing spots.

oBMTo
Jul 17, 2012, 05:11 PM
But when Apple did this, Android users and WP users cried how it was stolen. Now that it's finally on Android, everything's all fine and dandy again.

Who's crying where?

batting1000
Jul 17, 2012, 05:33 PM
Who's crying where?

I was being sarcastic...

onthecouchagain
Jul 24, 2012, 10:11 PM
I'm not sure what it is, but I find Jelly Bean laggier than ICS on my GSM Galaxy Nexus. Sure, certain things are "butterier" and feel amazingly fast like when opening or closing apps or opening/closing the app drawer, but other things are strangely slower now. For example, when exiting an app to the home screen, if you immediately swipe to the next screen (left or right) there's this slight stutter. Never ever noticed this in ICS. I keep reading about JB still having micro-lag, and I'm not sure what that means, but I'm guessing that's what I'm seeing. And again, I feel ICS was smoother (not faster, but smoother; never saw ICS stutter). Really perplexing.

The keyboard has also seen a serious downgrade. It behaves very much like the iOS keyboard now. It misses keys, misses auto corrections (e.g. I should never ever see "ypu" when typing "you". "Ypu" should always auto correct to "you" but sometimes it appears in my emails/messages; it's like the keyboard forgets to or misses it and doesn't correct it. It happens frequently), and I really feel Google completely missed the point of shortcuts. It should not be offered as an option in the suggestion bar; it should automatically replace it with what you want. Having to pick the phrase you want of your shortcut from the suggestion bar just adds an extra step that is wholly unnecessary. I think the iOS keyboard is terrible, but if there's one thing they (and Blackberry) got right, it's shortcuts. I swear, typing on ICS was way smoother, more reliable, and less prone (almost never) to missed keys or missed autocorrections. There's also an incredibly odd glitch with backspacing after a period. There are members at the XDA forum who also agree the keyboard has slowed and the response time downgraded. Real shame, Google.

I'm really not sure what happened, but that boat that I said that was sailing for iOS suddenly made a u-turn. I'll be keeping a hopeful eye for surprises on the next gen iPhone, even though I'm not thrilled by iOS 6 at all, nor the rumored mere .5+ inch screen increase.

There are so many tradeoffs now between the two platforms. I foresee a pretty difficult decision to make depending on what happens this year.

Toltepeceno
Jul 24, 2012, 10:31 PM
I'm surprised the poll is so close on a mac forum.

AfzalivE
Jul 24, 2012, 10:43 PM
I'm not sure what it is, but I find Jelly Bean laggier than ICS on my GSM Galaxy Nexus. Sure, certain things are "butterier" and feel amazingly fast like when opening or closing apps or opening/closing the app drawer, but other things are strangely slower now. For example, when exiting an app to the home screen, if you immediately swipe to the next screen (left or right) there's this slight stutter. Never ever noticed this in ICS. I keep reading about JB still having micro-lag, and I'm not sure what that means, but I'm guessing that's what I'm seeing. And again, I feel ICS was smoother (not faster, but smoother; never saw ICS stutter). Really perplexing.

The keyboard has also seen a serious downgrade. It behaves very much like the iOS keyboard now. It misses keys, misses auto corrections (e.g. I should never ever see "ypu" when typing "you". "Ypu" should always auto correct to "you" but sometimes it appears in my emails/messages; it's like the keyboard forgets to or misses it and doesn't correct it. It happens frequently), and I really feel Google completely missed the point of shortcuts. It should not be offered as an option in the suggestion bar; it should automatically replace it with what you want. Having to pick the phrase you want of your shortcut from the suggestion bar just adds an extra step that is wholly unnecessary. I think the iOS keyboard is terrible, but if there's one thing they (and Blackberry) got right, it's shortcuts. I swear, typing on ICS was way smoother, more reliable, and less prone (almost never) to missed keys or missed autocorrections. There's also an incredibly odd glitch with backspacing after a period. There are members at the XDA forum who also agree the keyboard has slowed and the response time downgraded. Real shame, Google.

I'm really not sure what happened, but that boat that I said that was sailing for iOS suddenly made a u-turn. I'll be keeping a hopeful eye for surprises on the next gen iPhone, even though I'm not thrilled by iOS 6 at all, nor the rumored mere .5+ inch screen increase.

There are so many tradeoffs now between the two platforms. I foresee a pretty difficult decision to make depending on what happens this year.

Go to the keyboard options and change the agressiveness

onthecouchagain
Jul 24, 2012, 10:44 PM
Go to the keyboard options and change the agressiveness

Already "very aggressive." And Predictive Text is off too, which is what I thought was causing the slower response and missed autocorrections. I thought maybe the phone was doing too much work trying to predict. It's not the case.

Phone keyboards are my thing. I obsess over them. I constantly post about them whether it's the iOS keyboard or the Android keyboard(s).

I'm telling y'all, something went wrong with the JB keyboard (on the Galaxy Nexus, at least. Not positive how it is on the Nexus 7). Maybe Android 4.1.2 will address it in a patch, but for now, something is amiss. Again, XDA members have expressed the same.

zbarvian
Jul 24, 2012, 10:53 PM
I still think Android should be better at following your finger, and could use some UI design polishing. Some places are pretty, others are ugly as sin. It needs consistently smooth performance, not like how Chrome is laggier than the stock Browser. More quality control, too, especially in the Play Store.

I am getting somewhat bored with iOS, though.