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MarcDean
Jun 29, 2012, 03:43 AM
Hello MacRumors!

I am starting college in a month or so.. I am going to need a new laptop, since I don't have any PC at all and I am looking to buy a Mac.
This is going to be my first Mac ever. I've already have an iPhone 4S and a iPad 2, which I used a lot in High School, but it's not going to be sufficient for college, perhaps on those rare occasions where a notebook isn't required.

I am mostly going to use my MBA for school stuff, like writing essays, surfing the intertet for personal use and for researching, itunes and youtube, you know the deal. I don't really use photoediting programs but I might be required to in school, but it'll only be lightweight.
Also I've been researching that MBA's can handle some casual gaming like D3 and a bit of WoW, which I might also be using it for.

I am going for the 13" MBA with 8GB of RAM, but here is where i am getting confused.
Now I know I said casual gaming, but I don't play more than 1-2 hours every few days, but when I do play I want things to go as smoothly as possible.

So here is my question - i5 or i7? Will I feel an increase in power while really using my MBA at it's maximum when pushing it with intensive programs like D3 or will it be minimal?
Now the money isn't really the problem, neither is the amount of storage I get from upgrading to the i7. But if I can save the money I would of course like to, though if the investment is going to be noticeable I wouldn't mind spending the extra money.

Thank you! :)



KohPhiPhi
Jun 29, 2012, 05:17 AM
There are many members in this forum (myself included) waiting for a i5 vs. i7 review before making our purchasing decision.

There's been some benchmark tests that show that the i7 is about 10% to 15% faster, but there hasn't been any benchmark so far as far as the battery life and heat outputs. That's what I'm waiting for before swinging my credit card: I want to know how cooler (if any) the i5 is compared to the i7.

garfey
Jun 29, 2012, 05:37 AM
I will be doing all the same as you plus 1080p video editing so I went for the i7. Battery life isn't the be all and end all for me (like I suspect it won't be for you). Also I plan on keeping mine for a few years so wanted to future-proof it as best as possible.

Hope that helps.

Garf

kodeman53
Jun 29, 2012, 06:35 AM
You can never have too many of these threads debating I5 v I7.

Get the I7.

oxfordguy
Jun 29, 2012, 06:51 AM
You can never have too many of these threads debating I5 v I7.

Get the I7.

Agreed - the Macbook Air is not that powerful a computer (at least compared to Macbook Pros) and in my view needs all the help it can get, that's why I went for the i7 (and 8Gb RAM, which is a no-brainer).

mattopotamus
Jun 29, 2012, 06:53 AM
Agreed - the Macbook Air is not that powerful a computer (at least compared to Macbook Pros) and in my view needs all the help it can get, that's why I went for the i7 (and 8Gb RAM, which is a no-brainer).

this is very true, but from a gaming stand point i do not think an i5 vs i7 dual core will make that big of a difference.

Puevlo
Jun 29, 2012, 07:03 AM
I don't believe that Mac computer support Internet-7 yet, only Internet-5 anyway. So just get an i5. You won't be able to browse any faster with an i7.

oxfordguy
Jun 29, 2012, 07:56 AM
this is very true, but from a gaming stand point i do not think an i5 vs i7 dual core will make that big of a difference.

Not a big difference, but a difference - an extra 200Mhz and an extra 1MB L2 CPU cache, and both of these will also help the GPU perform better

ZBoater
Jun 29, 2012, 08:33 AM
If you want the fastest MacBook Air money can buy right now, get the i7.

If you want to save a little bit of money and get a model that is a little bit slower, get the i5.

Easy. :D

KohPhiPhi
Jun 29, 2012, 09:31 AM
If you want the fastest MacBook Air money can buy right now, get the i7.

If you want to save a little bit of money and get a model that is a little bit slower, get the i5.

Easy. :D

You always throw the same over-simplified answer in all your posts. And you still fail to understand why someone might prefer an i5 over an i7, and it has nothing to do with saving a few bucks.

I personally don't care for a 15% cpu-power boost. There's more than raw power to a mobile-focused laptop, you know. What about heat outputs? what about battery? what about noise levels? Those are the benchmarks we need to know to determine whether i7 is actually worth it over i5.

Mikkel.kg
Jun 29, 2012, 09:36 AM
You always throw the same over-simplified answer in all your posts. And you still fail to understand why someone might prefer an i5 over an i7, and it has nothing to do with saving a few bucks.

I personally don't care for a 15% cpu-power boost. There's more that raw power to a mobile-focused laptop, you know. What about heat outputs? what about battery? what about noise levels? Those are the benchmarks we need to know to determine whether i7 is worth over i5.

Spot on, KohPhiPhi. I wouldn't mind spending the extra 100 dollars to get more processing power, but if it comes at the cost of increased levels of heat and noise and a higher battery consumption then I will definitely go with the i5.

kodeman53
Jun 29, 2012, 09:49 AM
Yes, let's over analyze a $150 option.

Why, yes, I considered the I7 option, but studies show it generates .00001 C additional heat, .000002 db additional noise and reduces battery life by .3456 minutes.

KPOM
Jun 29, 2012, 09:56 AM
As far as gaming is concerned, there isn't much difference between the i5 and i7. They have the same GPU built in.

Mikkel.kg
Jun 29, 2012, 09:57 AM
Yes, let's over analyze a $150 option.

Why, yes, I considered the I7 option, but studies show it generates .00001 C additional heat, .000002 db additional noise and reduces battery life by .3456 minutes.

Why the sarcasm? It's a valid enough question. With the 2011 models various users experienced differences with regard to heat and noise levels, and some even went to exchange their i7 to get an i5.

ZBoater
Jun 29, 2012, 09:57 AM
You always throw the same over-simplified answer in all your posts. And you still fail to understand why someone might prefer an i5 over an i7, and it has nothing to do with saving a few bucks.

I personally don't care for a 15% cpu-power boost. There's more than raw power to a mobile-focused laptop, you know. What about heat outputs? what about battery? what about noise levels? Those are the benchmarks we need to know to determine whether i7 is actually worth it over i5.

The question of worth is relative. What is not relative is that i7 > i5. If you want to rationalize your i5 purchase because of heat or fan noise, and that works for you, then great. But if you want the fastest MBA, you get the i7. Thats all I'm saying.

And yes, it's that simple. i7 > i5. :cool:

KohPhiPhi
Jun 29, 2012, 10:04 AM
The question of worth is relative. What is not relative is that i7 > i5.

/sigh, you still won't get it.

Whether i7 > i5 depends on WHAT is your goal for your laptop. If I want a quieter, cooler, longer battery laptop to do non-CPU-intensive tasks, then perhaps (still waiting on benchmarks) the i5 > i7.

Do you realize that some people prefer a diesel car over a sports car, right? Would you always state that sports car > diesel car? that depends on your use for the car, correct? Geez... it's not really that difficult to understand, really... :rolleyes:

Besides, if all you care for is CPU-power, then both the MBA i5 and MBA i7 are poor decisions. The right decision should have been the MBP. Do you see how there's more than sheer CPU-power in this equation?

Mikkel.kg
Jun 29, 2012, 10:06 AM
The question of worth is relative. What is not relative is that i7 > i5. If you want to rationalize your i5 purchase because of heat or fan noise, and that works for you, then great. But if you want the fastest MBA, you get the i7. Thats all I'm saying.

And yes, it's that simple. i7 > i5. :cool:

The i5 is faster than the i7, no doubt that. But you're just reiterating a fact we all know and thus do not add any information of meaningful value to the question at hand.

The OP isn't just asking for the fastest processor. He's asking if it's a worthwhile investment for his uses, or if it would be better just to save the money.

kodeman53
Jun 29, 2012, 10:16 AM
The OP isn't just asking for the fastest processor. He's asking if it's a worthwhile investment for his uses, or if it would be better just to save the money.

1. It's not an 'investment', it's an expense.
2. Far too many people only buy what they need today, thinking they will never do anything different, or there wont be changes to OSX, or the products they currently use that will require more CPU or memory.

anandy
Jun 29, 2012, 10:27 AM
I got the i7 and am thrilled with it. I don't have the i5 so I can't compare. But the laptop is fast, gets good battery life, and doesn't get too hot. It warms up a bit under heavy load but it's not scalding like my old Dell laptop.

Mikkel.kg
Jun 29, 2012, 10:29 AM
1. It's not an 'investment', it's an expense.
2. Far too many people only buy what they need today, thinking they will never do anything different, or there wont be changes to OSX, or the products they currently use that will require more CPU or memory.

1. Nitpicking, you get my point.
2. I'm not arguing that you shouldn't be far-sighted when buying a new computer. I think you should. But with regard to the i5 v. i7 argument, the 10-15% extra power of the i7 won't make much difference when the i5 becomes inadequate, and you'll probably end up buying a new product instead of holding on to your old i7.

ZBoater
Jun 29, 2012, 10:44 AM
The i5 is faster than the i7, no doubt that. But you're just reiterating a fact we all know and thus do not add any information of meaningful value to the question at hand.

No, I'm repeating it because you are still getting it wrong. The i5 is NOT faster than the i7. :rolleyes:

----------

/sigh, you still won't get it.

Whether i7 > i5 depends on WHAT is your goal for your laptop. If I want a quieter, cooler, longer battery laptop to do non-CPU-intensive tasks, then perhaps (still waiting on benchmarks) the i5 > i7.

I don't get it? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! :rolleyes:

It doesn't matter what you want to use your laptop for. The i7 is faster than the i5. Period. End of discussion.

If you want to continue rationalizing the i5 due to heat or fan noise, that is fine. I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with people buying the i5 because they think they are going to get less heat and less fan noise. If that makes them happy, I'm happy.

As long as they realize they are getting a laptop that is not as fast as what they could have gotten...

Mikkel.kg
Jun 29, 2012, 10:55 AM
No, I'm repeating it because you are still getting it wrong. The i5 is NOT faster than the i7. :rolleyes:

Minor typo. My point still stands though. You're not contributing anything by stating a fact that everyone is aware of.

KohPhiPhi
Jun 29, 2012, 10:58 AM
It doesn't matter what you want to use your laptop for. The i7 is faster than the i5. Period. End of discussion.

As long as they realize they are getting a laptop that is not as fast as what they could have gotten...

I'm now certain that you're simply trolling, because we've repeated over and over that sheer speed is not what we're concerned about (we care about heat, noise and battery life). I will stop addressing your posts from now on.

kodeman53
Jun 29, 2012, 10:59 AM
You're not contributing anything by stating a fact that everyone is aware of.

More pot calling the kettle black.

...but when I do play I want things to go as smoothly as possible.

Given this requirement, the key phrase being, "as smoothly as possible", you need the I7. Games use a lot of memory and processor.

pandaguy
Jun 29, 2012, 11:01 AM
I'm in nearly the same situation as the OP. I really don't feel like waiting any longer to buy it, especially since I would prefer getting good battery life in lieu of the small speed bump.

entatlrg
Jun 29, 2012, 12:17 PM
You always throw the same over-simplified answer in all your posts. And you still fail to understand why someone might prefer an i5 over an i7, and it has nothing to do with saving a few bucks.

I personally don't care for a 15% cpu-power boost. There's more than raw power to a mobile-focused laptop, you know. What about heat outputs? what about battery? what about noise levels? Those are the benchmarks we need to know to determine whether i7 is actually worth it over i5.

Well said. There is a lot more to it. I'm looking forward to a review that covers these important points.

It's a waste of time reading 'filler' posts from people who don't read the question or just are just interested in increasing their posts counts. :rolleyes:

Here's another fine example:

Yes, let's over analyze a $150 option.

Why, yes, I considered the I7 option, but studies show it generates .00001 C additional heat, .000002 db additional noise and reduces battery life by .3456 minutes.

Really, what's your point guys? You're not being helpful, and you reply with more sarcarism, antagonizing people ... You've both proven your worth here, thank you very much for proving your credibility - again. We can know what to expect from your future posts and threads... not much.

ZBoater
Jun 29, 2012, 01:29 PM
I'm now certain that you're simply trolling, because we've repeated over and over that sheer speed is not what we're concerned about (we care about heat, noise and battery life). I will stop addressing your posts from now on.

I'm trolling? YOU may be one concerned about heat and noise but not ONCE did I read that in the OP. Go back and reread the original post that started this thread, and be a bit more careful throwing the trolling accusations around.

Thanks for playing.

----------

Minor typo. My point still stands though. You're not contributing anything by stating a fact that everyone is aware of.

No, not everyone. The attempts at rationalizing an i5 purchase because of some imaginary heat or battery problem are what the problem is.

And I wouldn't call that a minor typo when it changes the meaning 100% and states a WRONG fact. Tis <-- is a minor typo. Saying i5 > i7 is an absurdity.

kodeman53
Jun 29, 2012, 01:31 PM
Really, what's your point guys? You're not being helpful, and you reply with more sarcarism, antagonizing people ... You've both proven your worth here, thank you very much for proving your credibility - again. We can know what to expect from your future posts and threads... not much.
I am crushed by what a stranger on the Internet thinks of me. :rolleyes:

Mikkel.kg
Jun 29, 2012, 02:23 PM
No, not everyone. The attempts at rationalizing an i5 purchase because of some imaginary heat or battery problem are what the problem is.

And I wouldn't call that a minor typo when it changes the meaning 100% and states a WRONG fact. Tis <-- is a minor typo. Saying i5 > i7 is an absurdity.

Imaginary? Do you have sources to back up that assertion?

And okay let's call it a major typo. I apologize for making such an accidental absurd statement. I accidentally wrote 5 when it should have been a 7. The i5 is not faster than the i7, but which one is the better in terms of battery life, noise and heat has yet to be established.

ZBoater
Jun 29, 2012, 03:02 PM
Imaginary? Do you have sources to back up that assertion?

No, not really, other than owning an i7 and having absolutely no heat or noise "issues". Does the i5 run cooler with less fan noise? Maybe. I don't know. Is my i7 faster than a similarly configured MBA but with an i5? Absolutely. :D

Mikkel.kg
Jun 29, 2012, 03:14 PM
No, not really, other than owning an i7 and having absolutely no heat or noise "issues". Does the i5 run cooler with less fan noise? Maybe. I don't know. Is my i7 faster than a similarly configured MBA but with an i5? Absolutely. :D

Okay, so without any sources to back up your claim you call them imaginary. Nice.

Perhaps you should revise your 'i7 > i5, it's simple math' argument to: i7 has more processing power than i5.

Anyway, I'm done debating with you. I apologize to the OP for the turn this thread has taken.

oxfordguy
Jun 30, 2012, 04:03 AM
1. It's not an 'investment', it's an expense.


Quite! It always amuses me when people refer to their computers as an "investment" - the idea of an investment is that you're buying something that you hope will increase in value (e.g. shares) - unless you're the lucky owner of an Apple I (http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/apple-i-motherboard-sells-at-auction-for-almost-250000-1085482) that's just not going to happen. A more appropriate term would be an "asset".

MarcDean
Jun 30, 2012, 04:50 AM
Alright I see that brought up quite a debate wether or not an i5 or i7 would be sufficient.

Anyway, thanks everyone who did provide some constructive answers and just didn't fill up the forums with unnecessary bull..

I have decided to go with the i7 and 8GB of ram because it may be more powerful and able to run things as smooth as I would like them to. Also it seems like it would be a better investment* as it might be more futureproof and I don't want to buy another laptop within the next three years.

*Investment has different meanings in finance and economics. Finance investment is putting money into something with the expectation of gain.
- Gain doesn't necessarily have to be money. It can be knowledge, an easier time at studying and college, which in the end is going to, if you do manage to complete, reward you with a career and following that a paycheck. A notebook for college, yes I do see that as an investment.

Edit: Spelling errors.

oxfordguy
Jun 30, 2012, 05:36 AM
Alright I see that brought up quite a debate wether or not an i5 or i7 would be sufficient.

Anyway, thanks everyone who did provide some constructive answers and just didn't fill up the forums with unnecessary bull..

I have decided to go with the i7 and 8GB of ram because it may be more powerful and able to run things as smooth as I would like them to. Also it seems like it would be a better investment* as it might be more futureproof and I wouldn't wont to buy another laptop within the next three years.


I think you've made a sensible choice


*Investment has different meanings in finance and economics. Finance investment is putting money into something with the expectation of gain.
- Gain doesn't necessarily have to be money. It can be knowledge, an easier time at studying and college, which in the end is going to, if you do manage to complete, reward you with a career and following that a paycheck. A notebook for college, yes I do see that as an investment.

Sure, I take your point, just me being pedantic, my apologies. Hope you enjoy your new Macbook Air! :-)

MarcDean
Jun 30, 2012, 05:43 AM
Sure, I take your point, just me being pedantic, my apologies. Hope you enjoy your new Macbook Air! :-)

Thank you! I am going on vacation for the next week, so hopefully it'll be there when I get home! Can't wait! :)

Enjoy your summer!

hisboyelroy
Jun 30, 2012, 05:53 AM
I can certainly see many aspects of your dilemma, one of which is the $400 price difference. While it is really only $100 to upgrade the processor, to get the i7 you also must upgrade the minimum SSD capacity to 256 minimum. That is where most of your upgrade cost is coming from. i5 vs. i7 aside, I will just recommend to you that, while you likely won't notice much of a perceivable difference between the processors given your actual use of the machine, you will very soon notice that the 128 GB SSD is your real limitation. If you can swing the $400 upgrade, do it for the doubling in storage you will receive and consider the processor boost an extra.

EARL97850
Jun 30, 2012, 05:56 AM
Thank you! I am going on vacation for the next week, so hopefully it'll be there when I get home! Can't wait! :)

Enjoy your summer!

Oh man, that sucks that you can't take your new AIR along with you on vacation.

I too ordered the same setup and mine should be next week as well. Looking forward to it!!! :D

Cya

----------

I forgot to add.......when mine arrives I need to figure out how to get the parallels program and windows installed on the air as well.

Cya

pandaguy
Jun 30, 2012, 08:35 AM
Thank you! I am going on vacation for the next week, so hopefully it'll be there when I get home! Can't wait! :)

Enjoy your summer!

....

Same here...

Odd.

thomasuk
Jul 2, 2012, 10:33 AM
I'm up for one too. For me, smooth experience is VERY important (of course alongside the usual for MBA owners, like portability, battery etc.). In 2-3 years, where there's new OS (or even 2 gens of new OS), difference between smooth and not smooth might be only few FPS. That few FPS can be 5%-15%, in which case, the i7 will make a difference. For me that extra $ is not that much when I'm spending that much on something that I'll be using everyday for years to come. Per day/month/year cost difference is very little, but it impacts 1000s of hours of the experience over the product's lifetime. That's why, for me is no brainer: i7 and 8GB of RAM. (with 256GB).

yoyoma1992
Jul 2, 2012, 10:53 AM
I think the answer is simple...if you got lots of cash sitting around and your making a 6 figure income, get the i7. If you don't have a lot of money but you can still afford a macbook, get the i5. :rolleyes:

oxfordguy
Jul 2, 2012, 11:36 AM
I think the answer is simple...if you got lots of cash sitting around and your making a 6 figure income, get the i7. If you don't have a lot of money but you can still afford a macbook, get the i5. :rolleyes:

Hey, the i7 isn't *that* much more expensive! Its not like the upgrade to the 512Gb SSD, which is a big hit.

KohPhiPhi
Jul 2, 2012, 11:38 AM
I think the answer is simple...if you got lots of cash sitting around and your making a 6 figure income, get the i7. If you don't have a lot of money but you can still afford a macbook, get the i5. :rolleyes:

Jesus Christ... why some people wouldnt get that it's not about the money (or CPU speed), but about temperatures and battery life?!?!? :rolleyes:

Mikkel.kg
Jul 2, 2012, 11:48 AM
Jesus Christ... why some people wouldnt get that it's not about the money (or CPU speed), but about temperatures and battery life?!?!? :rolleyes:

Hey, KohPhiphi. Have you made any decision about if you're going with the i5 or i7?

I'm still awaiting Anandtech's review of the 2012 Air models, but I'd also appreciate input from other people who are concerned with battery and heat issues.

Cheers!

ZBoater
Jul 2, 2012, 02:24 PM
Jesus Christ... why some people wouldnt get that it's not about the money (or CPU speed), but about temperatures and battery life?!?!? :rolleyes:

Because the notion that Apple would make the same model laptop with two different CPUs with enough difference in temperature and battery life performance between them that would dissuade most normal people from buying one over the other based on just that is just ridiculous... :cool:

Ptdr
Jul 2, 2012, 03:07 PM
Because the notion that Apple would make the same model laptop with two different CPUs with enough difference in temperature and battery life performance between them that would dissuade most normal people from buying one over the other based on just that is just ridiculous... :cool:

This isn't a fantasy, there was a noticeable difference with the 2011 model, so it make sence to think the same issue could be possible with the 2012 model.

I wouldn't mind paying an extra $100 for more CPU speed, however, i'd like to see how the battery life/heat is affected before i make my choice.
I'm planing to buy a macbook air 13" when i go back from holidays, in a month, so far:
256gb, 8gb ram,
CPU : i5 or i7 don't knon yet!!!
Hope we see a battery life/heat test soon..

Moshe1010
Jul 2, 2012, 03:17 PM
Let's sum up:

i5:
* Mail/Internet usage
* Better battery life
* No additional cost
* Less Heat


i7:
* Video/Image editing (really? buy MBP)
* Faster by 5-10% on average (no difference it terms of regular computer use such as mail/internet)
* Lowers battery life by 20-30min (depends on processor usage)
* Costs $90 more (Educational program that everybody can buy through it)

aaronvan
Jul 2, 2012, 03:23 PM
I don't believe that Mac computer support Internet-7 yet, only Internet-5 anyway. So just get an i5. You won't be able to browse any faster with an i7.

lol

halledise
Jul 2, 2012, 03:31 PM
;)

Mikkel.kg
Jul 2, 2012, 04:11 PM
flame wars are bad enough, but blasphemy on these forums is unacceptable. :mad:

Woah. Blasphemy? Let's keep the religious aspect out of this. This phrase is used by millions all over the world as an exclamation.

ZBoater
Jul 2, 2012, 04:13 PM
if you and Zboater want to have a slanging match then please do it privately and not burden the rest of us with your personal hits.

Slanging? I learned a new word today. I like it! :D

And I missed the personal hits. It's a fair discussion given the incredible amount of disinformation floating out there. If some threads are to be believed, i7s are ticking time bombs waiting to burst into flames the minute Skyrim is launched.

Things like "noticeable difference" get thrown around like it actually means something. Unless someone brings hard numbers, its just that, discussion.

And the point I was trying to make (without engaging in personal hits) is that Apple wouldn't knowingly design a laptop that would burst into flames or be any sort of security risk, or risk burning out if used, or anything like that. Comments like that just feed the hysteria around this topic.

If someone wants to buy a slower computer because they can get 30 more minutes of battery life (like 7 hours instead of 6 and a half) or maybe run 5C cooler, then so be it. Do so with the full knowledge of what you are doing. Don't do it because you're afraid your CPU is going to burn up if your browse too long. That's all. :cool:

Mikkel.kg
Jul 2, 2012, 04:29 PM
Slanging? I learned a new word today. I like it! :D

And I missed the personal hits. It's a fair discussion given the incredible amount of disinformation floating out there. If some threads are to be believed, i7s are ticking time bombs waiting to burst into flames the minute Skyrim is launched.

Things like "noticeable difference" get thrown around like it actually means something. Unless someone brings hard numbers, its just that, discussion.

And the point I was trying to make (without engaging in personal hits) is that Apple wouldn't knowingly design a laptop that would burst into flames or be any sort of security risk, or risk burning out if used, or anything like that. Comments like that just feed the hysteria around this topic.

If someone wants to buy a slower computer because they can get 30 more minutes of battery life (like 7 hours instead of 6 and a half) or maybe run 5C cooler, then so be it. Do so with the full knowledge of what you are doing. Don't do it because you're afraid your CPU is going to burn up if your browse too long. That's all. :cool:

What's up with all the hyperbolic statements? No one but you have talked about "ticking time bombs" or macs "bursting into flames". People have expressed a valid concern with heat, based on issues with last year's model.

I find it quite demeaning and arrogant that you call this "hysteria".

ZBoater
Jul 2, 2012, 04:40 PM
What's up with all the hyperbolic statements? No one but you have talked about "ticking time bombs" or macs "bursting into flames". People have expressed a valid concern with heat, based on issues with last year's model.

I find it quite demeaning and arrogant that you call this "hysteria".

Yes, I am prone to hyperbole. It's a personal failing of mine. But once you've read some of the threads regarding the heat and battery life over the past 12 months (this topic isn't new you know), you can't help but grow a bit cynical and hyperbolic. :cool:

Ptdr
Jul 2, 2012, 04:50 PM
Let's sum up:

i5:
* Mail/Internet usage
* Better battery life
* No additional cost
* Less Heat


i7:
* Video/Image editing (really? buy MBP)
* Faster by 5-10% on average (no difference it terms of regular computer use such as mail/internet)
* Lowers battery life by 20-30min (depends on processor usage)
* Costs $90 more (Educational program that everybody can buy through it)

Well, for me no need to buy a MBP, i've just sold mine (2010) only decause i need portability, and the 2012's air i5 is already more powerful.
I do music production, i'll be able to run logic 9 smoothly with a macbook air, and i get 8gb ram, a big bonus for DAW softwares.

@Zboater : If battery-wise, the i7 is really 30 minutes under, for such a small amount of CPU, then i'll go for the i5.
As you said, numbers, we need numbers, then people can decide whats best for their needs...

Mikkel.kg
Jul 2, 2012, 05:09 PM
Yes, I am prone to hyperbole. It's a personal failing of mine. But once you've read some of the threads regarding the heat and battery life over the past 12 months (this topic isn't new you know), you can't help but grow a bit cynical and hyperbolic. :cool:

Cynicalism and hyperbole doesn't exactly improve the quality of your arguments, quite the opposite.

Also, I'm well aware that this isn't a new discussion. I've searched the board extensively and read quite a few threads dealing with the heat/battery/noise issues. Based on the sheer amount of users who've reported differences between the two 2011 processors, I think it's fair enough to discuss if such differences also exist in the 2012 models.

pandaguy
Jul 2, 2012, 07:07 PM
Ended up buying the i5. I don't need the extra power as a college student but honestly I care more about even a little more of battery life.

theSeb
Jul 2, 2012, 07:40 PM
Imaginary? Do you have sources to back up that assertion?

And okay let's call it a major typo. I apologize for making such an accidental absurd statement. I accidentally wrote 5 when it should have been a 7. The i5 is not faster than the i7, but which one is the better in terms of battery life, noise and heat has yet to be established.

Do you have sources to back up your assertions? I bought a 2011 13" ultimate MBA 2 days after it was released. I created a long thread and took many screenshots of the temperatures and fan noises under 100% CPU load. It's nearly a year later and, despite pushing my little computer nearly everyday, it still has not melted or blown up. I read most of the threads on this forum and I have not seen a shred of evidence that the i7 has some inherent heat issue that the i5 does not. What I have seen is what I see in the MBP and iMac sub-forums nearly every day: "omg, my computer is too hot". If there really was a tangible heat issue that resulted in premature failure, then we would know about it by now and there would be recalls.

99% of people don't even realise that their computer has issues or spend their time running like headless chickens trying to check if their computer has a particular panel or a particular brand of SSD. Fact of the matter is that less than 1% of mac owners bother to post or read forums such as these. When you come to a hospital don't be surprised to see sick people. The mass hysteria threads are worth a giggle though.

ZBoater
Jul 2, 2012, 08:22 PM
Cynicalism and hyperbole doesn't exactly improve the quality of your arguments, quite the opposite.

Also, I'm well aware that this isn't a new discussion. I've searched the board extensively and read quite a few threads dealing with the heat/battery/noise issues. Based on the sheer amount of users who've reported differences between the two 2011 processors, I think it's fair enough to discuss if such differences also exist in the 2012 models.

You see, thats the point. The supposed "differences" between the 2011 models are accepted as fact because of some posts. In this Anandtech review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/4528/the-2011-macbook-air-11-13inch-review/13) for example, the difference in battery life between the i5 and i7, at least on the MacBook Pros, is just a few minutes. Review after review for the 2011 Airs fails to mention the "noticeable" heat disparity. Yet someone posts here and you have people returning their i7s to Apple because they run "too" hot or have "significantly less" battery life. :rolleyes:

And if you hadn't figured it by now, I'm not aiming for quality, I'm aiming for amusement.... :p

Ptdr
Jul 3, 2012, 01:52 AM
Do you have sources to back up your assertions? I bought a 2011 13" ultimate MBA 2 days after it was released. I created a long thread and took many screenshots of the temperatures and fan noises under 100% CPU load. It's nearly a year later and, despite pushing my little computer nearly everyday, it still has not melted or blown up. I read most of the threads on this forum and I have not seen a shred of evidence that the i7 has some inherent heat issue that the i5 does not. What I have seen is what I see in the MBP and iMac sub-forums nearly every day: "omg, my computer is too hot". If there really was a tangible heat issue that resulted in premature failure, then we would know about it by now and there would be recalls.

99% of people don't even realise that their computer has issues or spend their time running like headless chickens trying to check if their computer has a particular panel or a particular brand of SSD. Fact of the matter is that less than 1% of mac owners bother to post or read forums such as these. When you come to a hospital don't be surprised to see sick people. The mass hysteria threads are worth a giggle though.

Got the message for the heat, what about battery life?

theSeb
Jul 3, 2012, 02:30 AM
Got the message for the heat, what about battery life?

Check out the batteries and heat section.

http://www.macworld.com/article/1161434/macbook_air_2011.html

The difference is insignificant. 27 minutes on the 13" and even less on the 11" (202 vs 205 vs 221)

Repeatable test results are much better than anecdotal evidence.

mayuka
Jul 3, 2012, 02:30 AM
I'm confused. There're a lot of different statements out there....

Can anybody clear things up for me?

i5 vs. i7

- Does the i5 provide longer battery life when the cpu is at 100%? :confused:
- Does the i7 get warmer when the cpu is at 100%? :confused:

With 100% I mean something like encoding a movie from my dslr. That does take about an hour on my current Macbook.

Barna Biro
Jul 3, 2012, 02:37 AM
The difference is surely insignificant... the real difference on the other hand is in the i7 being able to perform the same tasks a tab bit faster ( which in the end is saving you time ). Only if you have a limited budget you should go for the i5, otherwise go for i7.

Ptdr
Jul 3, 2012, 02:46 AM
The difference is surely insignificant... the real difference on the other hand is in the i7 being able to perform the same tasks a tab bit faster ( which in the end is saving you time ). Only if you have a limited budget you should go for the i5, otherwise go for i7.

I don't have a limited budget, but again, if i get half an hour less battery with the i7, i'll go for the i5..

@theSeb : thanx for the link! can't wait for the 2012's battery life test.

theSeb
Jul 3, 2012, 02:55 AM
I'm confused. There're a lot of different statements out there....

Can anybody clear things up for me?

i5 vs. i7

- Does the i5 provide longer battery life when the cpu is at 100%? :confused:
- Does the i7 get warmer when the cpu is at 100%? :confused:

With 100% I mean something like encoding a movie from my dslr. That does take about an hour on my current Macbook.



Well, doing things like encoding on the battery is never going to work out well on any computer, whether it's a pc or a mac.

The i7 and the i5 will both reach the same temperatures at 100% CPU load. In theory the i5 has a slightly longer battery life, but since the i7 can get the job done quicker, they will both probably finish with the same amount of battery charge left.

Barna Biro
Jul 3, 2012, 03:06 AM
I don't have a limited budget, but again, if i get half an hour less battery with the i7, i'll go for the i5..

@theSeb : thanx for the link! can't wait for the 2012's battery life test.

You are not looking at it correctly... Let's assume that you'd get 30 mins less... BUT the i7 is FASTER than the i5 which leaves also a chance for you to finish whatever you were trying to finish 30 mins faster... if you were on the i5, you might indeed have 30 mins of usage left, but the task you have started might still not be finished ( so where's the win in being able to look at progress bars for 30 min more? nowhere... ).

You're really over-thinking the entire "issue" ... If you use your notebook for intensive stuff, it will drain the battery fast no matter what. The real difference you should be instead looking at is: "would the i7's slightly faster clock speed help me get my job done faster in the limited time I have or not".

The difference between the i7 and i5 is not HUGE, but there is some difference... My previous affirmation stands: If you have the money for it, go with the i7, else get the i5.

Ptdr
Jul 3, 2012, 03:11 AM
Well, doing things like encoding on the battery is never going to work out well on any computer, whether it's a pc or a mac.

The i7 and the i5 will both reach the same temperatures at 100% CPU load. In theory the i5 has a slightly longer battery life, but since the i7 can get the job done quicker, they will both probably finish with the same amount of battery charge left.

It make sence, i don't see the point comparing i5 and i7 at 100% load.

The question for me is :
How is the battery life affected when doing casual stuff (internet browsing, ms works...)??

Barna Biro
Jul 3, 2012, 03:17 AM
It make sence, i don't see the point comparing i5 and i7 at 100% load.

The question for me is :
How is the battery life affected when doing casual stuff (internet browsing, ms works...)??
Man, try to understand that there is not clear answer for what you are asking... everyone "does casual stuff" differently. You can have puny Excel or Word documents open that don't need a lot of processing, others can have bigger one... or you can even have a mix of them from time to time. Also in the browser, it depends on how many tabs you have open, what exactly you are doing on that website ( is it loaded with animations, videos, etc. ) and so on and so forth...

So what if someone drops by and tells you "I also use it for casual stuff and it lasts 6 hours..." , then someone else comes by saying he also uses it for the exact same stuff but it for him, it only lasts 5 and a half hours ( both of them with the same MBA configurations )... then you eventually buy the same model and come back saying "oooh, but for me it lasts 7 hours!!!! it's great !!!" .... CASUAL IS BLOODY DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE !!! People who pretend that they can provide you "exact numbers" on "casual use" and pretend to hold a 100% accurate answer ARE LYING !!!

Get the bloody i7 already and be happy with it !

PS: The crap notebook has a 14 day return policy... can't you just get both and test for yourself ?! Seriously now... it's not rocket-science that we're discussing here...

Ptdr
Jul 3, 2012, 03:17 AM
You are not looking at it correctly... Let's assume that you'd get 30 mins less... BUT the i7 is FASTER than the i5 which leaves also a chance for you to finish whatever you were trying to finish 30 mins faster... if you were on the i5, you might indeed have 30 mins of usage left, but the task you have started might still not be finished ( so where's the win in being able to look at progress bars for 30 min more? nowhere... ).

You're really over-thinking the entire "issue" ... If you use your notebook for intensive stuff, it will drain the battery fast no matter what. The real difference you should be instead looking at is: "would the i7's slightly faster clock speed help me get my job done faster in the limited time I have or not".

The difference between the i7 and i5 is not HUGE, but there is some difference... My previous affirmation stands: If you have the money for it, go with the i7, else get the i5.

As i said before, i'm interested in casual stuff, the i7 won't help me to write faster on works for exemple!!!
For serious stuff like sound editing, most of the time my laptop is plugged anyway, so no worries.

I have the money but i'm not sold yet on the i7, it all depends on the numbers, i would say for me, 10 minutes loss of battery life is the max accepted on casual stuff...

kodeman53
Jul 3, 2012, 03:55 AM
As i said before, i'm interested in casual stuff, the i7 won't help me to write faster on works for exemple!!!
For serious stuff like sound editing, most of the time my laptop is plugged anyway, so no worries.

I have the money but i'm not sold yet on the i7, it all depends on the numbers, i would say for me, 10 minutes loss of battery life is the max accepted on casual stuff...

:rolleyes: You've wasted more time analyzing this than the slower CPU will save you over the life of the MBA. Get the I5 and bring this pedantic thread to an end. You're trying to make an objective decision with subjective terms like 'casual stuff''. Even if someone does a test of the I5 to the I7, there's no way know if their test workload matches how you plan on using your MBA. For a laptop that lasts 3.5 to 4 hours on a battery, and you're looking for 10 more minutes, or a 4.1 - 4.8% difference.

Ptdr
Jul 3, 2012, 06:02 AM
:rolleyes: You've wasted more time analyzing this than the slower CPU will save you over the life of the MBA. Get the I5 and bring this pedantic thread to an end. You're trying to make an objective decision with subjective terms like 'casual stuff''. Even if someone does a test of the I5 to the I7, there's no way know if their test workload matches how you plan on using your MBA. For a laptop that lasts 3.5 to 4 hours on a battery, and you're looking for 10 more minutes, or a 4.1 - 4.8% difference.

I know what you mean, i'll probably go for the i5 ;)
I'm still interested to see these battery life tests, even if some of you think they are useless or meaningless for someone hesitating between the i5 and i7...

theSeb
Jul 3, 2012, 08:08 AM
I know what you mean, i'll probably go for the i5 ;)
I'm still interested to see these battery life tests, even if some of you think they are useless or meaningless for someone hesitating between the i5 and i7...

I would go for the i5 in your situation. If I was in the market for a 2012 MBA, then I would probably get an i5, 128 GB and 8 GB of RAM. I have too many computers and lots of storage now so I don't need the extra CPU or storage space.

kobyh15
Jul 3, 2012, 08:10 AM
This has happened the last couple years. Mass hysteria over nothing. You put a powerful CPU/GPU in a small case and it's going to get hot. Intel knows this and Apple sure as hell knows it. How many outright failures have you heard of because of heat? None. The computers are designed with heat in mind. The whole damn computer is a heat sink for goodness sakes. Buy the computer that is going to make you happy and help you GET YOUR JOB DONE QUICKER. That's what is going to save you money and time. Not fretting over a couple degrees and battery life. Make a decision and move on.

mayuka
Jul 3, 2012, 09:40 AM
Buy the computer that is going to make you happy and help you GET YOUR JOB DONE QUICKER. That's what is going to save you money and time.

That's a myth. Writing a letter or surfing the internet is still blazingly fast with a Powerbook G4. The only real advantage of the newer processors is encryption speed (because processors have built-in instruction-sets) and video performance (because of the GPU). Since most people do have another computer and use their MBA as portable device they won't notice the difference.

What still puzzles me is how the i7 can be faster and yet produces the same amount of heat... :confused:

kobyh15
Jul 3, 2012, 10:06 AM
That's a myth. Writing a letter or surfing the internet is still blazingly fast with a Powerbook G4. The only real advantage of the newer processors is encryption speed (because processors have built-in instruction-sets) and video performance (because of the GPU). Since most people do have another computer and use their MBA as portable device they won't notice the difference.

What still puzzles me is how the i7 can be faster and yet produces the same amount of heat... :confused:

They both have the same thermal rating. The i7 probably does produce a negligible amount more of heat. But the computer is designed to be able to handle it. The OP said he would be doing some sound editing as well. The i7 will be faster. I agree it would be a wash with only web surfing and basic text editing.

Ptdr
Jul 3, 2012, 10:09 AM
That's a myth. Writing a letter or surfing the internet is still blazingly fast with a Powerbook G4. The only real advantage of the newer processors is encryption speed (because processors have built-in instruction-sets) and video performance (because of the GPU). Since most people do have another computer and use their MBA as portable device they won't notice the difference.

What still puzzles me is how the i7 can be faster and yet produces the same amount of heat... :confused:

Thank you!
I'm a teacher so for me the i7 won't "GET MY JOB DONE QUICKER" for writing or web browsing for exemple, i have my laptop with me all day and battery is a priority.
However i wouldn't mind more CPU for my music production projects, that's why i was curious about the ratio CPU gain/battery life, but this seems to annoy some i7 fans or whatever they are...
By the way kobyh15, i actually don't really care about heat...

theSeb
Jul 3, 2012, 11:06 AM
What still puzzles me is how the i7 can be faster and yet produces the same amount of heat... :confused:

Seriously? You really can't figure this out? Think about why would an MBP with a quad core CPU show the same temps as a dual core MBA at load. Most car engines' water temperature stays at the same level, yet they are vastly different.

kodeman53
Jul 3, 2012, 12:00 PM
Thank you!
I'm a teacher so for me the i7 won't "GET MY JOB DONE QUICKER" for writing or web browsing for exemple, i have my laptop with me all day and battery is a priority.
However i wouldn't mind more CPU for my music production projects, that's why i was curious about the ratio CPU gain/battery life, but this seems to annoy some i7 fans or whatever they are...
By the way kobyh15, i actually don't really care about heat...

It's not the CPU gain/battery life ratio that's annoying, it's the endless navel gazing some people engage it about it. They act as if they keep asking questions in a thread, or better yet, start a new thread, the laws of physics will suddenly be lifted and they will be able to gain all the benefits of a faster CPU with none of the costs. The people who are unable, or unwilling, to prioritize their requirements, a life skill everyone who claims to be an adult, should have mastered before graduating from high school, are both entertaining and sad. Sad because if the simple 'Which MBA should I buy? decision sends them running to the Internet to seek advice from strangers, the real decisions of life will prove debilitating.

Since your stated priority is battery life, get the MBA13 with the I5.

halledise
Jul 3, 2012, 04:02 PM
:)

Mikkel.kg
Jul 3, 2012, 04:29 PM
it's not a phrase, it's someone's name.




I think you will find it was KohPhiPhi who brought the 'religious aspect' in.
and had he taken the name of Allah or Mohammed in vain there'd be a huge outcry and a fatwah issued against him :)

It's often used as an exclamatory phrase in the same way that "oh my god" or "good lord" are.

Not everyone on this forum are god fearing individuals, and KohPhiPhi's use of the expression "jesus christ" can hardly be termed blasphemy.

Ptdr
Jul 3, 2012, 04:35 PM
Back to topic please...
:(

entatlrg
Jul 3, 2012, 04:41 PM
With the i5/i7 being so marginally close in every respect it makes you wonder why Apple bothers to offer both.

Zapdoc
Jul 3, 2012, 04:52 PM
Recently changed from 13 inch i5 to i7 fully loaded. Not noticed any appreciable difference in battery life, heat (runs very cool and quieter than older i 5) Very responsive - only do regular stuff e-mail/internet/ word/excel/powerpt/Pages / Ketnote downloads etc.

Fantastic kit pleased I changed.

halledise
Jul 3, 2012, 08:06 PM
:)

pandaguy
Jul 3, 2012, 09:58 PM
Wow, you are all really feisty people. I've been a member of this board for about five days and can already notice how bitchiness seems to be the default tone.

DVD9
Jul 3, 2012, 10:01 PM
I can certainly see many aspects of your dilemma, one of which is the $400 price difference. While it is really only $100 to upgrade the processor, to get the i7 you also must upgrade the minimum SSD capacity to 256 minimum. That is where most of your upgrade cost is coming from. i5 vs. i7 aside, I will just recommend to you that, while you likely won't notice much of a perceivable difference between the processors given your actual use of the machine, you will very soon notice that the 128 GB SSD is your real limitation. If you can swing the $400 upgrade, do it for the doubling in storage you will receive and consider the processor boost an extra.

If the base 13 won't work for you than it's stupid not to get the Retina.

Titanium81
Jul 3, 2012, 11:09 PM
I have been using the 2012 MacBook Air 13" i5 for a few weeks and it is AWESOME! No need for the i7 unless you have extra money laying around or just want bragging rights...

Barna Biro
Jul 4, 2012, 02:33 AM
I have been using the 2012 MacBook Air 13" i5 for a few weeks and it is AWESOME! No need for the i7 unless you have extra money laying around or just want bragging rights...

People opting for even a marginally faster CPU doesn't mean they are looking for bragging rights... for some ( as myself ), it can matter a lot. Every second ( or tens of seconds ) I can save whenever compiling my projects, matters to me a lot. Of course, when some "serious power" is needed, I will surely not even think about trying to push the poor Air to it's limits... but that doesn't mean that a faster CPU is useless on the MBA. It's extremely useful if you can actually use it...

If you are a normal user who only reads news, mail and sometimes opens up and edits some Word / Excel / etc. documents then that's cool and YES, you'll most likely not see any real life benefits in getting the i7 over the i5.

theSeb
Jul 4, 2012, 02:45 AM
With the i5/i7 being so marginally close in every respect it makes you wonder why Apple bothers to offer both.

If they didn't, then there would be thousands of posts here full of people spewing rubbish about how Asus is better than Apple and Apple are losing their way, don't care about pros and only worry about iToys. Oh wait, that's a normal day.

barjam
Jul 4, 2012, 10:25 AM
More pot calling the kettle black.



Given this requirement, the key phrase being, "as smoothly as possible", you need the I7. Games use a lot of memory and processor.

In most cases the games would be gpu bound and not processor bound. It wouldn't surprise me if there was no difference between the two.

When I purchased my desktop (windows) i7 i did this knowing that the i5 was actually faster for many games because some games would get confused by the hyper threading. Faster development and video encoding were more important to me and game developers would eventually fix their issues (hopefully).

Ptdr
Jul 4, 2012, 10:57 AM
In most cases the games would be gpu bound and not processor bound. It wouldn't surprise me if there was no difference between the two.

When I purchased my desktop (windows) i7 i did this knowing that the i5 was actually faster for many games because some games would get confused by the hyper threading. Faster development and video encoding were more important to me and game developers would eventually fix their issues (hopefully).

Both 2012 macbook air's i5 and i7 have hyper threading...

GBlansten
Jul 9, 2012, 01:20 PM
Both 2012 macbook air's i5 and i7 have hyper threading...

True. You get a modest performance gain with the i7 but it isn't huge.

riveting
Jul 9, 2012, 02:21 PM
Yes, people are saying the difference in battery life, heat is insignificant, which is true, but so is the performance difference. Both i5 and i7 has hyper threading, so the efficiency of the two processor is probably not much different. Of course, if the cost of i5 and i7 is the same, everybody would be jumping gun on i7, but there is a $100 difference, so it is up to individule to decide whether it is worth it to gain a small performance increase with i7.

Personally, I think base model is always the most economic purchase, except maybe the ram upgrade.

landed
Sep 3, 2012, 11:12 AM
I just would like to know from a practical sense does it get hot to type after 10 hours on the go doing normal work and playing perhaps some music on the side. This is what I am asking since my dell burns my palms ! So I am really looking to avoid this at all costs.

robvas
Sep 3, 2012, 11:20 AM
Do you want 10% more performance for about 10% more $? Then get the i7

oxfordguy
Sep 3, 2012, 11:46 AM
I just would like to know from a practical sense does it get hot to type after 10 hours on the go doing normal work and playing perhaps some music on the side. This is what I am asking since my dell burns my palms ! So I am really looking to avoid this at all costs.

No, it only gets hot if you really push the CPU for long periods e.g. running demanding games

mayuka
Sep 3, 2012, 01:24 PM
I just would like to know from a practical sense does it get hot to type after 10 hours on the go doing normal work and playing perhaps some music on the side. This is what I am asking since my dell burns my palms ! So I am really looking to avoid this at all costs.

The i7 handles multi-tasking better as it allows to switch faster between processes. It also scales up the "turbo-boost" faster, as well as scaling it down again, making the system a tiny little bit more responsive. I'd say it's not worth the money, though. Only if you're doing some cpu-intensive work like video encoding or those kinds of things it'll make a real difference.