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MacBytes
Jul 26, 2005, 02:01 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Mac OS X is already better than Windows, Vista may be end of line for Microsoft's dominance (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050726150109)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

Mudbug
Jul 26, 2005, 02:01 PM
I know - it's a Dvorak article, but one worth reading (if there is such a thing).

2GMario
Jul 26, 2005, 02:14 PM
haha, that logo is funny, haha

is that a marketing logo or a bootup logo ?

cause the only thing i see different than the XP logo is the word Vista and the use of more color... during bootup anyways.

-Mario

stridey
Jul 26, 2005, 02:24 PM
Interesting perspective... for once I sure hope he's right, but I'm not quite as convinced as he seems to be that this is a foregone conclusion...

maximumbarkly
Jul 26, 2005, 02:29 PM
I can hear the argument coming already. the "Tight software-hardware" integration argument to keep OS X from actually dominating the market.

Nobody can see an Asus motherboard in the future with a big sticker that says "Follows OS X Protocol!" or "optimized OS X Architecture!" or something similar? Apple can still make computers, but when the CEO of Dell says "we'll sell OS X".... steve jobs should say "Alright, but only if you make this and this change to your hardware, and slap a big Mac-Ready sticker next to the intel sticker"


Another valid point to coincide with that... Apple computer hardware could simply be advertised as "wanna see OS X run even better?"

I don't see why someone would be dumb enough to stop that.

G5Unit
Jul 26, 2005, 02:30 PM
Asta la Vista, Microsoft!

otter-boy
Jul 26, 2005, 02:44 PM
the only thing i see different than the XP logo is the word Vista and the use of more color... during bootup anyways.

-Mario

If you look closely, you'll see the same circular "spotlight" effect in the new Windows logo that Apple used for Tiger's X. MS can't even come up with their own effects to spruce up their logo!

Lurch_Mojoff
Jul 26, 2005, 02:47 PM
haha, that logo is funny, haha

is that a marketing logo or a bootup logo ?

cause the only thing i see different than the XP logo is the word Vista and the use of more color... during bootup anyways.

-Mario

Well, there is one other big difference between the new logo and the old one - the highlights and shadows are not the same. In the new logo the window is lighted by, uhmmm.... a spotlight ;) :D :p

1macker1
Jul 26, 2005, 03:10 PM
Thinking that a OS is going to die because it's name isn't 'hip' is just silly. MS marketing team is great, their tv spots stay in your head. I'm sure when the time comes, they'll begin a real marketing campaign.

verozov
Jul 26, 2005, 03:23 PM
lol... the thud heard around the world... just thought that was funny...

winmacguy
Jul 26, 2005, 03:26 PM
I know - it's a Dvorak article, but one worth reading (if there is such a thing).
It was one worth posting too Mudbug ;) very interesting to see the response that Windows Vista is getting around the place, seems to be VERY underwhelming.

dswoodley
Jul 26, 2005, 03:46 PM
Can't see Apple gaining too much share as long as OS X is tied to the hardware. Maybe...but I really doubt.

Benjamin
Jul 26, 2005, 03:49 PM
... well wtf I think i'm in an different universe... Dvorak says something interesting, insightful? interesting read.

michaelrjohnson
Jul 26, 2005, 04:44 PM
I'm trying hard to formulate a complete response to this article, and it's predictions. However, I just can't seem to get it right now. All that I can come up with is the following:

The short-term future (2-4 years) is going to be very interesting.

winmacguy
Jul 26, 2005, 04:51 PM
I'm trying hard to formulate a complete response to this article, and it's predictions. However, I just can't seem to get it right now. All that I can come up with is the following:

The short-term future (2-4 years) is going to be very interesting.

Agreed ;) :cool: :D

Mitthrawnuruodo
Jul 26, 2005, 04:53 PM
I see too many smart people with Mac laptops nowadays. Well, thank you... :D

nagromme
Jul 26, 2005, 05:16 PM
"its reign as the OS dominator may end fast"

Maybe... I seriously doubt it! But a little re-phrasing and you still have a good scenario:

"its reign as the OS dominator may begin to end soon"

(And I like the name Vista... sure beats Performa! :eek: )

Mitthrawnuruodo
Jul 26, 2005, 05:41 PM
Just had to :D

bryanc
Jul 26, 2005, 06:01 PM
Will we be seeing Paul Thurott windows-bashing or at least admitting that OS X is better?

When these dyed-in-the-wool wintel fanboys admit the dominance of Microsoft is comming to an end, and that it may be a good thing, it's got to have become so obvious that even they can't deny it anymore.

I just hope Apple doesn't pull an Apple, and screw up their momentum... I'm still worried about the switch to Intel having that effect, but so far it doesn't look that bad.

Cheers

PCMacUser
Jul 26, 2005, 06:43 PM
I read this article, and found very little substance to it. Mere speculation, with nothing else added... It's obviously not to be taken seriously.

rjfiske
Jul 26, 2005, 06:55 PM
Will we be seeing Paul Thurott windows-bashing or at least admitting that OS X is better?


Funny you should mention that... I went to the belly of the enemy on Paul's site and found this:

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_5048.asp

Granted, this is a review of a pre-release version of Vistahorn that will never see the light of day, but he does have some interesting comments such as:

"Apple's Mac OS X, recently upgrade to version 10.4 ("Tiger," see my review) is more than "good enough." In many ways, OS X is simply better than Windows, especially for experienced computer users, and Tiger rubs Microsoft's nose in the embarrassment of shipping a key Longhorn feature--instant desktop search--a full year ahead of the software giant. That's right folks. We already knew that Microsoft was facing smaller, nimbler competitors. But those competitors are now starting to outperform Microsoft in the feature department too. It's time for Redmond to stop pretending Linux and OS X don't exist."

Fun to watch... and read.

hulugu
Jul 26, 2005, 10:35 PM
I'm not sure when it happened...but I have managed to land on Bizarro World! Bizarro Dvorak is saying good things about Apple, Bizarro Apple is using Intel chips! :eek:
I'm waiting for Bizarro Steve Jobs to show up.

And now Paul Thurrot is talking up Apple!


My head asplode!

Gus
Jul 26, 2005, 11:11 PM
Well, that's it. The world is going to end tomorrow. Not only did Dvorak say he thought OS X was better, he actually made sense in his article. We're all doomed.

Regards,
Gus

GodBless
Jul 26, 2005, 11:19 PM
Google is still a wild card. It could do an OS that could threaten both Apple and Microsoft.What is he talking about? Does he not know how long it takes to create a good fully functioning OS? He is acting like Google could could come out of nowhere in the next few years with an OS that beats both OS X and Windows. What is he thinking?

gekko513
Jul 27, 2005, 02:09 AM
The fact that Dvorak all of a sudden writes a pro-Apple article doesn't suddenly make him smart or insightful.

Lacero
Jul 27, 2005, 02:10 AM
The fact that Dvorak all of a sudden writes a pro-Apple article doesn't suddenly make him smart or insightful.Yes it does.

AlmostThere
Jul 27, 2005, 02:30 AM
The new OS is getting zero buzz.
Followed by:
Linux/Apache will own the server space and with the emergence of MySQL and PHP as the hot development tools over Microsoft .NET and J2EE there will be no way to unseat it.
What like the buzz that surrounded Linux 2.6, PHP5, MySQL4. Oh, yes, those made headlines in every newspaper, didn't they? By his own yardstick, buzz is not a good measure of success.

Also:
Microsoft will retreat to its cash-cow applications: Microsoft Office and the potentially profitable Xbox
Windows is a cash cow application. How fast can you type OEM? Either Apple licences OS X, or it magically manages production to meet 80% of computer sales.

How about this: Microsoft know full well that there is not going to be a revolutionary upgrade process when Vista finally makes it to market. They have observed trends with Windows 98, Windows 2000 and the slow uptake of Windows XP. They know that many technologies don't actually make much difference to most users (and having upgraded to Tiger, with all it's buzz, I generally concur) and a better strategy is to build a platform - focusing on releases that atomically upgrade components of the OS - that can be rolled out to the major sections of the market, such as the large corporation, in manageable and useful chunks that work both with new (Vista) and old (XP) technologies.

MS is not Apple, I am constantly amazed that experienced writers consider them directly comparable.

AmigoMac
Jul 27, 2005, 05:28 AM
Quick and Dirty... Yeah, I know but don't slap me that hard...

SPUY767
Jul 27, 2005, 07:11 AM
If you look closely, you'll see the same circular "spotlight" effect in the new Windows logo that Apple used for Tiger's X. MS can't even come up with their own effects to spruce up their logo!


Don't forget teh simply bitchin' drop shadow. Also, keep your eye on the stunning gradation, which naturally we won't see during boot up cause windows has never supported more than 256 colors until completely booted up.

Honestly tho, the chap who wrote this article is a tool. I really don't consider anything google has done to be the nifty idea that he claims. I mean, they're a search engine for god's sake. Yeah, there's GMail, but what is GMail other than an adolescent waggling of a big floppy cash-penis in our collective face through the offering of "2 gigs" of mail space, KNOWING, that 98 percent of people won't ever come close to using 50 megs. And to say that Google's ideas put apple to shame? That's just ridiculous.

macFanDave
Jul 27, 2005, 08:12 AM
When I saw the title of the article, I assumed it was going to be by one of my fellow "fanbois" (that's how you say it, right?)

I blew hot coffee through my nose when I saw it was by Dvorak!!!

Now I am getting my will together, telling my famiy how much I love them, getting right with God and looking for MORE signs that the Messiah is coming!

Check it out! Zephaniah 3:13, "And ye shall recognize the imminent arriver of the Redeemer by the sign when the lover of the system of the numerous, who doth hateth the true and good system used by the chosen people, suddenly loveth the true and good system and taketh a dump on the system of the numerous."

DannySmurf
Jul 27, 2005, 08:28 AM
What is he talking about? Does he not know how long it takes to create a good fully functioning OS? He is acting like Google could could come out of nowhere in the next few years with an OS that beats both OS X and Windows. What is he thinking?

Yeah. I mean, the way he was talking, you'd think that Google had come out of absolutely nowhere and pretty much wiped out all of its competition with some brand new search engine technology that's being used by over 80% of all people on the Internet just a few years later. What's he thinking?

Yvan256
Jul 27, 2005, 08:55 AM
What is he talking about? Does he not know how long it takes to create a good fully functioning OS? He is acting like Google could could come out of nowhere in the next few years with an OS that beats both OS X and Windows. What is he thinking?

Google could very well make their own Linux distro.

After all, a lot of people now know what "Linux" is, and almost everyone knows Google and trust them.

If you can keep all your computer gear, ditch Microsoft Windows and get a free Google Linux, why not try it?

The only thing lacking with Linux (and all the distros) is a lack of cohesion (lots of GUIs, packages, etc). They keep saying it's their force (choices are good) but in fact it's the very thing that keeps them out of reach of Joe Average*.

Joe Average was not available for comments.

SiliconAddict
Jul 27, 2005, 09:09 AM
What's in a name? Seriously. Vista isn't the best name but a name isn't going to make or break the OS. Its the software. At this point no one can accurately predict how good or how bad Vista will be.

As for Apple. Quite frankly I don't want to EVER see Apple in a position of dominance. Apple and Jobs are arrogant enough. I don't think we need to see Jobs doing his keynote from a gold throne with a scepter that has a sapphire on its top tweaked to look like an Apple. Thanks but no. :p

Platform
Jul 27, 2005, 09:17 AM
is it news...........well maby it will give people a new view on things that think macs are bad :p ;)

SiliconAddict
Jul 27, 2005, 09:46 AM
is it news...........well maby it will give people a new view on things that think macs are bad :p ;)


Not really. Most people wrote off John C years ago. At this point he is the equivalent to the bum standing on the street corner with a sign screaming the end is here. Most people just walk by and activly try and ignore him.

Did I hear a buzzing noise? :cool:

Koree
Jul 27, 2005, 09:51 AM
As someone said earlier, don't apple and microsoft are very different....
Don't try to assume if one screws up the other is going to take over... Apple has its niche, and so do many windows users. Many of them won't switch to apple, they have their little niche, theres no reason to switch to mac osx if your just gonna surf the web, email, listen to music, make word documents, and watch a dvd or two.

solong as they are using firefox and not downloading every other virus/spyware.

Krazykrl
Jul 27, 2005, 11:35 AM
Can't see Apple gaining too much share as long as OS X is tied to the hardware. Maybe...but I really doubt.

I disagree. I think users would be happier buying a computer that they know the company will support completely. What I do see happening is more "re-branding". Just like we saw with the HP iPod, we may very well see the "HP PowerMac" which will just be Apple Hardware with an HP logo slapped on.

Krazykrl
Jul 27, 2005, 11:47 AM
The new OS is getting zero buzz.
Followed by:
Linux/Apache will own the server space and with the emergence of MySQL and PHP as the hot development tools over Microsoft .NET and J2EE there will be no way to unseat it.
What like the buzz that surrounded Linux 2.6, PHP5, MySQL4. Oh, yes, those made headlines in every newspaper, didn't they? By his own yardstick, buzz is not a good measure of success.

Also:
Microsoft will retreat to its cash-cow applications: Microsoft Office and the potentially profitable Xbox
Windows is a cash cow application. How fast can you type OEM? Either Apple licences OS X, or it magically manages production to meet 80% of computer sales.

How about this: Microsoft know full well that there is not going to be a revolutionary upgrade process when Vista finally makes it to market. They have observed trends with Windows 98, Windows 2000 and the slow uptake of Windows XP. They know that many technologies don't actually make much difference to most users (and having upgraded to Tiger, with all it's buzz, I generally concur) and a better strategy is to build a platform - focusing on releases that atomically upgrade components of the OS - that can be rolled out to the major sections of the market, such as the large corporation, in manageable and useful chunks that work both with new (Vista) and old (XP) technologies.

MS is not Apple, I am constantly amazed that experienced writers consider them directly comparable.

I understand your point, but in a strictly Operating System aspect, I think MS and Apple to directly compare and I do believe that Apple's OS could supersede Windows if Apple plays there cards right.

Nickygoat
Jul 27, 2005, 11:59 AM
Well, thank you... :D
He made it sound like a criticism though.
I'm not sure about his analysis. Microsoft have been very busy on the corporate/ public sector world tying up deals that tie people into MS environments for a long time, making it ever harder for people to switch. Familiarity is a powerful tool.
It's not so important in the home market, where people will change computers a little more often but until Apple can get the message across to people who have no knowledge of them and who buy $199 systems based on headline price then they won't make a great deal of headway there either.

dswoodley
Jul 27, 2005, 04:01 PM
I disagree. I think users would be happier buying a computer that they know the company will support completely. What I do see happening is more "re-branding". Just like we saw with the HP iPod, we may very well see the "HP PowerMac" which will just be Apple Hardware with an HP logo slapped on.

I disagree with your disagreement
:D

Seriously, Apple offers, what, 6 different models (with limited BTO options), consumers en masse will a lot more choices than that.

dswoodley
Jul 27, 2005, 04:01 PM
The fact that Dvorak all of a sudden writes a pro-Apple article doesn't suddenly make him smart or insightful.

it sure doesn't make him stupid, either...

BenRoethig
Jul 27, 2005, 06:19 PM
I disagree. I think users would be happier buying a computer that they know the company will support completely. What I do see happening is more "re-branding". Just like we saw with the HP iPod, we may very well see the "HP PowerMac" which will just be Apple Hardware with an HP logo slapped on.

Apple makes computers that appeal to a certain niche. That niche May get a bit bigger, but it is very unlikely Apple will ever be able to catch Dell, HP, or even Gateway/ Machines. Apple can't meet the variety or the deals that they Can. The PowerMac may look cool, but for consumer uses it offers all the features of a MicroATX Pentium D machine for twice the price and without the second optical drive bay or card reader. We do not hold the majority opinion when it comes to computer design.

Mav451
Jul 27, 2005, 06:42 PM
I just hope Apple doesn't pull an Apple, and screw up their momentum... I'm still worried about the switch to Intel having that effect, but so far it doesn't look that bad.

Cheers

As an AMD user, sorry, they lost all their momentum for me. Yeah, I still got my iBook for light-use at home, but on the desktop?

Intel-inside? ...not gonna happen soon for me.

jkaz
Jul 27, 2005, 06:42 PM
"Google is ....... ..... .....This company's ability to come up with cool concepts puts even Apple to shame"


He must be talking about that whole bit where google reads your email so that they can better spam you etc

stridey
Jul 27, 2005, 06:56 PM
"Google is ....... ..... .....This company's ability to come up with cool concepts puts even Apple to shame"


He must be talking about that whole bit where google reads your email so that they can better spam you etc

Let's not have this argument again, ok? If you have anything so important you don't want a bot to read it, you shouldn't be sending it over webmail anyway. And google's bots read the email for better banner ads. Not spam. BIG difference (especially since I use Camino and therefore never see banner ads).

macFanDave
Jul 27, 2005, 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gekko513
The fact that Dvorak all of a sudden writes a pro-Apple article doesn't suddenly make him smart or insightful.


it sure doesn't make him stupid, either...

We have a saying 'round these parts: Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile.

In due course, we shall see whether Dvorak is really embracing the Mac platform and distance himself from Windows, or whether this is just an aberration.

Mav451
Jul 28, 2005, 12:42 AM
Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile.

Lol, the imagery in that statement is hilarious. But it is true. Dvorak was an idiot when I was reading PC Mag when I was 11. And today? I doubt he's learned anything.

gekko513
Jul 28, 2005, 01:17 AM
it sure doesn't make him stupid, either...
No, it's his history of crazy ramblings that makes him stupid.

stridey
Jul 28, 2005, 08:39 AM
I was just reading some random article about Vista and was struck by what a dumb name "virtual folders" is. As opposed to? Is Windows trying to say that the other, regular folders are somehow "realer" than these virtual folders? They're pixels on a computer! They're ALL virtual! </rant> Anyway, Smart Folders is a far better name. :D

Mr.Hostility
Jul 28, 2005, 08:46 AM
He must be talking about that whole bit where google reads your email so that they can better spam you etc

Yeah, because that really happens. :rolleyes: An automated system(read: not human) displays ads on a side bar in text only, based on keywords in the email. For God's sake, please learn about something before you bad mouth it. Google doesn't spam anyone, I have never gotten more than 1 email from them, and that was thanking me for signing up to the beta program. I have been using my account for 7+ months, and get no spam to it.

I was just reading some random article about Vista and was struck by what a dumb name "virtual folders" is. As opposed to? Is Windows trying to say that the other, regular folders are somehow "realer" than these virtual folders? They're pixels on a computer! They're ALL virtual! </rant> Anyway, Smart Folders is a far better name. :D

I agree it's stupid. Personally, I know where I put 99% of my files because I name the folders as such that I can find them with ease. I don't need special virtual or smart folders.

Analog Kid
Jul 28, 2005, 10:38 PM
No, it's his history of crazy ramblings that makes him stupid.
Agreed.

All the rest of the bunk in this article totally counteracts the pro-OS X stance... Didn't he have another article not to long ago about how Google was going to rule the world, but Apple might get away with renting videos?

Quick! GOOG stock is up! Chase the hype! ISP? Sure, they could do it better? OS design? Google! World Government? Google's a shoe in!

If OS X is so much better than Windows, and it runs PHP and MySQL just like any other Unix system, why should Linux come to dominate the server room?

Why the assumption that Apple will start licensing OS X willy-nilly? They've never done it before?

Guy's about as reliable as a fortune cookie...

Mr. Anderson
Jul 30, 2005, 08:16 AM
Ok, lets play nice. Everyone can disagree, that's fine, but try not to make it personal and keep name calling and labeling out of the conversation.

D

BGil
Jul 30, 2005, 08:56 AM
Agreed.

All the rest of the bunk in this article totally counteracts the pro-OS X stance... Didn't he have another article not to long ago about how Google was going to rule the world, but Apple might get away with renting videos?

Quick! GOOG stock is up! Chase the hype! ISP? Sure, they could do it better? OS design? Google! World Government? Google's a shoe in!

If OS X is so much better than Windows, and it runs PHP and MySQL just like any other Unix system, why should Linux come to dominate the server room?

Why the assumption that Apple will start licensing OS X willy-nilly? They've never done it before?

Guy's about as reliable as a fortune cookie...

Because Mac OS Server is tied to Apple hardware and only Apple hardware. Besides, Windows Server 2003 and Microsoft's Server products (including the Office System) are far better than Mac OS Server.