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MacBytes
Jul 27, 2005, 08:53 AM
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Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Windows users - 'get a Mac' (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050727095340)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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Mitthrawnuruodo
Jul 27, 2005, 09:29 AM
Most average PC users really don't know what they're missing... ;)

The camera that just connected was another thing that just blew my father-in-law away, too. When he tried his new digital camera with his Mac mini it for the first time it just opened iPhoto for him and he could import the images. When he later should use it with a PC at work he literary use a couple of hours, just to get the PC to acknowledge the camera... :D

Also, when I set up the mini for him, when it was new, and connected his old USB printer, I started manually setting up the printer (and I'm quite fast at that after setting up lots of network printers) but when I was finished, there the printer already was in the list, OS X had found it, added it and made it standard printer in much less time I was able to...

Not to mention getting online. One of the reasons he got a mini, at all, was because of long time trouble with a shady Compaq laptop, with a less than functioning modem (and/or modem driver). With the mini I just typed in the modem pool number, username and password (on a 3 years old dial-up account I hadn't even tested), and before I managed to turn and say, "I'm not sure this number works anymore", we were online, again, to my father-in-laws amazement...

He's now wondering why he didn't switch much earlier... :D

WinterMute
Jul 27, 2005, 09:30 AM
Slowly, oh so slowly, the tide turns.... :D

It's this kind of mainstream coverage that'll really help Apple's market position, your average PC user doesn't frequent the techie forums and magazines.

joecool85
Jul 27, 2005, 09:30 AM
If this works and more people buy macs, maybe I will finally see a 1.8ghz mac for less than a grand! Woohoo!

adamfilip
Jul 27, 2005, 09:32 AM
im not so sure about the whole thing

he does menion that your 5.1 surround speakers will work
and they wont atleast for me

on my old pc i had a speaker output for the front and rear

on my PowerMac G5 well there is only one speaker output
so its not entirely true

shamino
Jul 27, 2005, 10:27 AM
im not so sure about the whole thing

he does menion that your 5.1 surround speakers will work and they wont atleast for me

on my old pc i had a speaker output for the front and rear

on my PowerMac G5 well there is only one speaker outputso its not entirely true
PowerMac G5 systems have S/PDIF digital audio output. You need to use that for surround sound.

nagromme
Jul 27, 2005, 10:34 AM
PowerMac G5s (and iMacs, and PowerBooks, and now iBooks too) have 5.1 digital optical audio out. You need to use optical though I think.

I don't know WHAT is up with Windows and cameras. My friend bought a new camera--a 2005 model--plugged it into his G3 Mac running OS X 10.1 (yes! don't get me started) and it just worked. I suppose it was Image Capture that auto-launched, since he doesn't even have iPhoto yet. My other friend has been fighting for weeks to be able to use a recent but pre-SP2 (ought to be supported right?) camera in Windows. Same for my own camera--"just works" on Mac, but a battle in Windows. Same for my parents' camera. (Three different camera brands.)

If a 2005 camera can work with 10.1, then it can't be that hard to have compatibility. How can Microsoft possibly NOT achieve the same level of compatibility as Apple? It really amazed me. Is there some reason it's actually hard for them to make Windows support USB cameras better?

So many things seem to need a driver CD for Windows. On a Mac, the drivers are built-in or not even needed. Very odd to me.

PS: re 1.8 GHz Macs for under $1000... I'd say about 6 months tops :)

PPS: "Documents? Microsoft Word for OS X." Don't forget that Macs can read/write many Word docs just fine without buying anything--even the ones that don't come with AppleWorks. TextEdit does everything I need in terms of Word compatibility without me paying a dime.

Mr.Hostility
Jul 27, 2005, 11:15 AM
As a majorily Windows user, what always blew me away most about OS X is it seems like you are doing things the "right way" even though something like the close buttons are on the "wrong side".

One gripe I have as a new to Mac user is that closing a windows doesn't close a program. I get it, how it's kind of like MDI in Windows, but still. At this point I am kind of used to it though, and I do like it for stuff like Safari.

Mainyehc
Jul 27, 2005, 11:26 AM
PowerMac G5 systems have S/PDIF digital audio output. You need to use that for surround sound.

So does my iMac G5 ;) I never tested the optical out, but I know it's there... Too bad it doesn't come with an optical input like the PM does... :o

Eidorian
Jul 27, 2005, 11:50 AM
PS: re 1.8 GHz Macs for under $1000... I'd say about 6 months tops :)
Well if you have an education discount the 1.8 Ghz Rev. A iMac is $999.

bwintx
Jul 27, 2005, 12:08 PM
One gripe I have as a new to Mac user is that closing a windows doesn't close a program.

Your point is well-taken, but there's also something to be said for Apple respecting the wishes of us long-time Mac users who know that the left side is where the "close" thingie goes. :)

mduser63
Jul 27, 2005, 12:21 PM
One gripe I have as a new to Mac user is that closing a windows doesn't close a program. I get it, how it's kind of like MDI in Windows, but still. At this point I am kind of used to it though, and I do like it for stuff like Safari.

I can't stand the way Windows (and all the Linux distros I've used) inisists on quitting a program when you close the window. It's one of those things that's different from Windows, but at least in some (perhaps many) people's opinion is one of the many little things that makes OS X better.

toothpaste
Jul 27, 2005, 12:26 PM
Most average PC users really don't know what they're missing... ;)

The camera that just connected was another thing that just blew my father-in-law away, too. When he tried his new digital camera with his Mac mini it for the first time it just opened iPhoto for him and he could import the images. When he later should use it with a PC at work he literary use a couple of hours, just to get the PC to acknowledge the camera... :D

Also, when I set up the mini for him, when it was new, and connected his old USB printer, I started manually setting up the printer (and I'm quite fast at that after setting up lots of network printers) but when I was finished, there the printer already was in the list, OS X had found it, added it and made it standard printer in much less time I was able to...

Not to mention getting online. One of the reasons he got a mini, at all, was because of long time trouble with a shady Compaq laptop, with a less than functioning modem (and/or modem driver). With the mini I just typed in the modem pool number, username and password (on a 3 years old dial-up account I hadn't even tested), and before I managed to turn and say, "I'm not sure this number works anymore", we were online, again, to my father-in-laws amazement...

He's now wondering why he didn't switch much earlier... :D

I had such a hard time installing the drivers for my digicam on a work computer, I was spewing profanity unheard of before. In my rage I forgot to take the drivers cd with me to install the camera on my Powermac. I came home hooked up my camera dock, docked my camera and to my delight iPhoto recognized my camera and I was ready to import my images.

Apple you rule.

nagromme
Jul 27, 2005, 12:52 PM
Well if you have an education discount the 1.8 Ghz Rev. A iMac is $999.
Don't make me jealous. :o

Re closing windows = quitting apps... I'm one of the crazy ones who thinks that should happen for some apps, and not for other, more complex apps. Apple has moved over time to pretty much what I want: the apps I WANT to leave open but windowless will do so (productivity apps like Photoshop and library-management apps like iTunes and Mail), while the other little things like Calculator and Preferences will not.

It could even make sense to have a "Q" appear in the button instead of an "X" when you mouse over, to make the distinction.

dsharits
Jul 27, 2005, 01:12 PM
All I have to say is that Steve Jobs is a genius. :)
There's just no way around it. Get used to it, MS junkies. Bill Gates is good at making money any way possible, but Steve Jobs is awesome at running a corporation, marketing and keeping customers (and keeping them happy).

Mr.Hostility
Jul 27, 2005, 03:02 PM
I can't stand the way Windows (and all the Linux distros I've used) inisists on quitting a program when you close the window. It's one of those things that's different from Windows, but at least in some (perhaps many) people's opinion is one of the many little things that makes OS X better.

It's just a different nuance you have to get used to no matter which camp you come from if you have to, or even *gasp* want to use the other OS sometimes. It's cool though, just one of the more fustrating things for me as a primarily PC user for a lot of years. ;)

All I have to say is that Steve Jobs is a genius. :)
There's just no way around it. Get used to it, MS junkies. Bill Gates is good at making money any way possible, but Steve Jobs is awesome at running a corporation, marketing and keeping customers (and keeping them happy).

Gates wouldn't make money if he didn't know how to run Microsoft. I think if you asked Jobs his professional (maybe not personal) impression of Gates, he'd tell you that he is a brilliant businessman. I know it's the cool thing to rip on MS/Gates, but the guy is a genius. If not, we'd all be using Mac's at work and home. :p

One last thing, do you really think Apple's marketing is that good? For the iPod yes, but look around here and you'll find a lot of decenting opinions on how he is leaving out the rest of the Apple product line. I know there is a halo effect, but still. They should be pushing the OS's ability more. I do credit Jobs for what you said, loyalty of his existing customers who hang on every word and move Apple makes.

If Apple wants a shot at taking over the desktop market, they will have to make OS X a stand alone piece of software that can run on any PC hardware.

nagromme
Jul 27, 2005, 04:38 PM
There are many types of genius, and Gates is probably one of them. Does the kind of genius that worked in Microsoft's past also serve as well for it's future? It will be interesting to see.

solvs
Jul 27, 2005, 04:52 PM
I think if you asked Jobs his professional (maybe not personal) impression of Gates, he'd tell you that he is a brilliant businessman.
Actually in "real" life, they are on not-so-bad terms. Jobs had made comments about he and his wife going out to dinner with Bill and his wife. They buried that hatch awhile ago (though professionally, Jobs still pokes fun at him to give us what we want).

One last thing, do you really think Apple's marketing is that good?
Ask any Mac user and they will tell you that Apple needs to advertise more. In the past, it has not been so successful. I suspect (hope) that will change with MacTels and Leopard.

Applespider
Jul 27, 2005, 05:04 PM
Ask any Mac user and they will tell you that Apple needs to advertise more. In the past, it has not been so successful. I suspect (hope) that will change with MacTels and Leopard.

Apple's still rebuilding their brand since until the iPod there were a lot of average people who thought they'd gone out of business in the late 90s. The iPod is building brand beautifully - there are a lot of PC users out there who have more fun with their iPod and iTunes than anything else on their PCs and it starts them thinking about other things Apple. Get them into the stores to see OS X and then do the selling. Getting the Mac message across in a 30 second ad is tough - better to let your sales assistants do it (and cheaper than buying primetime TV slots since you need them anyhow!) They can also tailor their message to people's questions. Part of the problem is that people don't want to think different; they want to be reassured that all they can still look at their pictures, listen to their music and edit their CV - and you can't do that in a TV ad without mentioning the opposition!

Keep your existing users selling - they can say things that Apple officially can't (ie the malware-free piece). I'd love to see Apple give away a free iPhoto book to every iLife user to get people trying it and leaving them around on their coffee tables. I've converted two people on iPhoto books alone!

plinden
Jul 27, 2005, 05:19 PM
The camera that just connected was another thing that just blew my father-in-law away, too. When he tried his new digital camera with his Mac mini it for the first time it just opened iPhoto for him and he could import the images. When he later should use it with a PC at work he literary use a couple of hours, just to get the PC to acknowledge the camera... :D


That was one of the things that opened my eyes too (followed by when the guy I share my office with started working with his PB).

When my wife's sister got married, two years ago, the best man had his PowerBook at the reception (yes ... we were pretty much all geeks there). He was able to download all the photos from my digital camera and his own, and put on a slideshow, in less time than it takes to say "***** ... I don't have the right drivers."

nagromme
Jul 27, 2005, 06:20 PM
... Getting the Mac message across in a 30 second ad is tough - better to let your sales assistants do it ...

Agreed--or print ads too. Print ads can have details, and you can spend your time exploring them or you can just leave at the first impression. The ad works either way. Showing something as detailed as OS benefits in a TV ads? Much harder.

The best thing to do with TV ads is probably just build mindshare, and let Apple Stores and Apple.com provide the details and do the selling. They could generate mindshare with Mac or OS X ads, but they're doing well at that already with iPod ads.

I'd still like to see Mac ads of SOME kind. But if I were Apple, I'd wait until the Intel transition was well in hand.

ham_man
Jul 28, 2005, 12:27 AM
Yummy. If more people finally wake up and realise what the are being subjected too, they will turn to Macs. Many old arguments for not getting a Mac are completely debunked. And with Vista still in Beta, I think that the moment to get more Macintosh users is very ripe for the picking. If Apple acts smart in the next 18 months, the sky's the limit...

tpatricks
Jul 28, 2005, 02:03 AM
There are many types of genius, and Gates is probably one of them. Does the kind of genius that worked in Microsoft's past also serve as well for it's future? It will be interesting to see.

Great question. If one were to do a report card on Gates and Ballmer over the past five years (since Gates became chief software architect, and Ballmer became CEO), they'd both get "D's" at best.

Why?

Microsoft's stock is languishing big time. Profits and revenue are still there but not growing so fast and they've missed projections for the past two quarters (what's AAPL done?).

Anything new? The Media PC? Puh-leeeze.

Longhorn? It began to stink and they changed the name. It still won't be here for a year.

Nope. I'm not so sure they are genius more than they are criminals.

AlmostThere
Jul 28, 2005, 05:15 AM
Great question. If one were to do a report card on Gates and Ballmer over the past five years (since Gates became chief software architect, and Ballmer became CEO), they'd both get "D's" at best.

At what point in the last five years did Gates or Ballmer manage a 85% drop in share price?

neoelectronaut
Jul 28, 2005, 07:46 AM
Also, when I set up the mini for him, when it was new, and connected his old USB printer, I started manually setting up the printer (and I'm quite fast at that after setting up lots of network printers) but when I was finished, there the printer already was in the list, OS X had found it, added it and made it standard printer in much less time I was able to...

Wow, I wish my printer installing experience was that nice. I had to resort to installing Epson's own drivers, and anyone that uses them knows, they sort of take of your system, installing files and apps everywhere. Grr.

shamino
Jul 28, 2005, 11:04 AM
All I have to say is that Steve Jobs is a genius. :)
Let's not give him all of the credit.

Steve is a visionary, a motivator, and a great businessman. But it is the thousands of top-notch hardware and software engineers that have worked at Apple over the past 25 years that took those visions and made them into the products we all know and love.

Without an engineering staff, great visions never get beyond slide shows and plastic models. With a poor (or sometimes just average) engineering staff, you get products with lots of cool features that run too slow, too hot, or are just unstable.

I give a lot more credit to people like Burell Smith, Jef Raskin, and Andy Hertzfeld than I do to Steve Jobs.

dsharits
Jul 28, 2005, 11:06 AM
But.......would Apple be where they are now if, say, Spindler was still at the controls? How about Sculley?

shamino
Jul 28, 2005, 12:24 PM
But.......would Apple be where they are now if, say, Spindler was still at the controls? How about Sculley?
Where did I say Jobs was useless?

He serves a very important function - he sets the direction for the company and motivates everybody under him to perform.

This is very important, but it's far from enough.

A good CEO with bad/no engineering ends up with nothing but prototypes.

A bad CEO with great engineering ends up with lots of non-innovative products, but built very well. Which is what Apple was selling when the others were in charge.

pubwvj
Jul 28, 2005, 07:54 PM
One gripe I have as a new to Mac user is that closing a windows doesn't close a program

This is one of the things I hate about Windoze.