31st time's a charm? House GOP votes again on Obamacare Repeal

[yg17]

In case 30 times wasn't enough, the GOP is voting on Obamacare repeal for the 31st time.


Less than two weeks after the Supreme Court upheld the president's health care reform law, the House of Representatives is set to vote to repeal the legislation again in what Democrats have decried as a political show vote while also embracing it as another opportunity to explain the perks of the law to voters.


Lawmakers will begin debating the GOP's proposal to repeal the law Tuesday, with a final vote expected Wednesday afternoon.


To date, the House has voted 30 times to defund, dismantle and repeal the Affordable Care Act. In one of the first acts of the new Republican-controlled House of Representatives 18 months ago, the House first voted to repeal the health care law, January 19, 2011, passing the measure 245-189. At the time, just three House Democrats - Reps. Dan Boren of Oklahoma, Mike McIntyre of North Carolina, and Mike Ross of Arkansas - joined the House GOP in supporting repeal. A month later, repeal failed in the Democrat-controlled Senate 47-51.


http://news.yahoo.com/house-gears-repeal-obamacare-again-100159451--abc-news-politics.html

[leekohler]

They keep wasting time and not doing anything of value.

[AhmedFaisal]

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse

[Thomas Veil]

Insanity: repeating the same action and expecting different results.

[Rooskibar03]

Wasting time? I thought elected officials went to Washington DC to represent the will of the people?

More than half of Americans want to see the bill repealed, so how is this wasting time?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

[Rodimus Prime]

They keep wasting time and not doing anything of value.

yep. 31 vote should show how much time the GOP lead house waste doing this crap.

[yg17]

Wasting time? I thought elected officials went to Washington DC to represent the will of the people?

More than half of Americans want to see the bill repealed, so how is this wasting time?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

Because if repeal failed the past 30 times, and the White House and Senate have not changed hands, it's going to fail the 31st time. And the 32nd time. And the 33rd time. They could do this a hundred more times and it will still fail. It's a complete waste of time.

[Rodimus Prime]

Wasting time? I thought elected officials went to Washington DC to represent the will of the people?

More than half of Americans want to see the bill repealed, so how is this wasting time?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

Sorry if I do not put any faith in something that has been is a strong GOP leaning site.

[trouble747]

Wasting time? I thought elected officials went to Washington DC to represent the will of the people?

More than half of Americans want to see the bill repealed, so how is this wasting time?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

If the other 30 times didn't work, will this one fair any better?

It's a political move, pure and simple. And polling regarding the overall law is a little deceptive, given that most aspects of the law poll favorably when pollsters actually explain what the law contains.

Further...

In the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll, 47 percent say they support the measure signed into law by President Barack Obama in 2010, while 47 percent are opposed. The health care overhaul has gained support since the ABC News/Washington Post survey in April, when 53 percent were opposed to “Obamacare” and only 39 percent supported the law.

Link. (http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entries/poll-obamacare-gains-support-public-opinion-now-split?ref=fpblg)

[mcrain]

Let's go into GOP fantasy land for a minute, shall we?

Let's assume that Obamacare is repealed. Now what? Even Boehner, McConnell, heck, all of them, agree we need to reform healthcare because it is draining our economy far faster than any other single expense. It's costs are exploding, and I betcha you can't name a single Republican who doesn't agree with that.

So, in 1993, when we had this debate, the Democrats proposed a solution, and the GOP countered with Romneycare/Obamacare. Nothing was done, and the problem got worse. In the years between now and then, the GOP candidate for president enacted Romneycare, and guess what, it worked. It had broad bipartisan support.

Uh oh. A black man was elected president, and the GOP suddenly decided that its own solution to the healthcare crisis was no longer good enough. Now, again, let's assume Mitt wins. What is he going to do, knowing the last time he was in this position, he enacted Romneycare?

[leekohler]

Let's go into GOP fantasy land for a minute, shall we?

Let's assume that Obamacare is repealed. Now what? Even Boehner, McConnell, heck, all of them, agree we need to reform healthcare because it is draining our economy far faster than any other single expense. It's costs are exploding, and I betcha you can't name a single Republican who doesn't agree with that.

So, in 1993, when we had this debate, the Democrats proposed a solution, and the GOP countered with Romneycare/Obamacare. Nothing was done, and the problem got worse. In the years between now and then, the GOP candidate for president enacted Romneycare, and guess what, it worked. It had broad bipartisan support.

Uh oh. A black man was elected president, and the GOP suddenly decided that its own solution to the healthcare crisis was no longer good enough. Now, again, let's assume Mitt wins. What is he going to do, knowing the last time he was in this position, he enacted Romneycare?

He would not do one damn thing.

[dukebound85]

Sorry if I do not put any faith in something that has been is a strong GOP leaning site.

Are you really saying/implying you don't think there is a massive pushback of Obamacare in this country by a significant amt?

[skunk]

^^^Could someone please translate? :confused:

[Rodimus Prime]

Are you really saying you don't think there is a massive pushback of Obamacare in this country by a significant amt?

You mean from the GOP yeah but there is not a majority pushing back and when people learn what is in the bill that number falls either farther. There are lots of stuff in there that the people really like.

The insurance exchange PEOPLE LIKE IT. Manditory coverage for preexisting PEOPLE LIKE IT.

GOP tries to hide those parts people like.

GOP says repeal and replace but if you ask them what they will replace it with they have no answer all they scream is repeal.

If you want to change it OFFER SOMETHING UP. Is that to much to ask for them or are they to stupid and self centered to do that.

[mcrain]

Instead of Repeal and Replace, how about just amend. Let's debate their ideas in the open, and see what the American people think of the party of No's ideas?

[leekohler]

You mean from the GOP yeah but there is not a majority pushing back and when people learn what is in the bill that number falls either farther. There are lots of stuff in there that the people really like.

The insurance exchange PEOPLE LIKE IT. Manditory coverage for preexisting PEOPLE LIKE IT.

GOP tries to hide those parts people like.

GOP says repeal and replace but if you ask them what they will replace it with they have no answer all they scream is repeal.

If you want to change it OFFER SOMETHING UP. Is that to much to ask for them or are they to stupid and self centered to do that.

And something other than getting insurance across state lines. Please. That's not going to fix it.

[dukebound85]

You mean from the GOP yeah but there is not a majority pushing back and when people learn what is in the bill that number falls either farther. There are lots of stuff in there that the people really like.

The insurance exchange PEOPLE LIKE IT. Manditory coverage for preexisting PEOPLE LIKE IT.

GOP tries to hide those parts people like.

GOP says repeal and replace but if you ask them what they will replace it with they have no answer all they scream is repeal.

If you want to change it OFFER SOMETHING UP. Is that to much to ask for them or are they to stupid and self centered to do that.
The pushback has always been centered on the individual mandate.

It is evident that this is the lightening rod issue and as a result, many people oppose the premise of it.

[ugahairydawgs]

Let's go into GOP fantasy land for a minute, shall we?

Let's assume that Obamacare is repealed. Now what? Even Boehner, McConnell, heck, all of them, agree we need to reform healthcare because it is draining our economy far faster than any other single expense. It's costs are exploding, and I betcha you can't name a single Republican who doesn't agree with that.

So, in 1993, when we had this debate, the Democrats proposed a solution, and the GOP countered with Romneycare/Obamacare. Nothing was done, and the problem got worse. In the years between now and then, the GOP candidate for president enacted Romneycare, and guess what, it worked. It had broad bipartisan support.

Uh oh. A black man was elected president, and the GOP suddenly decided that its own solution to the healthcare crisis was no longer good enough. Now, again, let's assume Mitt wins. What is he going to do, knowing the last time he was in this position, he enacted Romneycare?

They have no solutions...which is part of the problem to this whole mess. If they had something in place to say "we hate the bill as is, but this is our solution" they would have a lot more of a leg stand on. But that don't, so they (GOP) get painted as trying to deny care to sick people.

That said, your blanket assertion that all of this is racially motivated is baseless and a completely tired argument. People that don't like this bill (black and white alike) mostly are against it because of the fact that it greatly expands the power of the federal government and requires individuals buy into a private industry. I'm not saying that everyone shouldn't have health insurance, I just don't like the precedent being set here of using the IRS as a shoe horn to get citizens to do what the federal government desires. Just because someone hasn't come up with a better idea doesn't automatically make this one good.

[trouble747]

Are you really saying/implying you don't think there is a massive pushback of Obamacare in this country by a significant amt?

Not really. The only truly unpopular part of the bill is the mandate, which was necessary in order to secure those other aspects that have proved to be popular. Disapproval of the mandate will likely decline as most Americans come to find that they are not subject to the penalty and as the law makes it easier for those who are uninsured to purchase coverage.

[Rodimus Prime]

The pushback has always been centered on the individual mandate.

It is evident that this is the lightening rod issue and as a result, many people oppose the premise of it.

Then why toss out everything else. Oh wait is that because they are afraid prices will rise and they would rather people die in the street.

GOP wants it all gone. They refuse to try to fix the broken system. It is far from perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than what the GOP wants (which is nothing.)

[mcrain]

They have no solutions...which is part of the problem to this whole mess. But your blanket assertion that all of this is racially motivated is baseless and a completely tired argument.

People that don't like this bill (black and white alike) mostly are against it because of the fact that it greatly expands the power of the federal government and requires individuals buy into a private industry. I'm not saying that everyone shouldn't have health insurance, I just don't like the precedent being set here of using the IRS as a shoe horn to get citizens to do what the federal government desires. Just because someone hasn't come up with a better idea doesn't automatically make this one good.

Who said this was all racially motivated? There are many on the right who are racially motivated, and others who do everything they can to attract the racist vote. However, the healthcare debate is just yet another example of those people doing everything they can to defeat the President, even if it means abandoning their own ideas.

If this was about the ideas or the way in which healthcare reform was done, I would agree with you, but this is being pushed by people who are repugnant.

----------

We have been down this road before.

The GOP has ALWAYS opposed benefits for the elderly, the sick, and especially minorities. They have fought against SS, Medicare, Welfare, and any other aid or any program that benefits the poor because they don't like them.

[dukebound85]

Who said this was all racially motivated? There are many on the right who are racially motivated, and others who do everything they can to attract the racist vote. However, the healthcare debate is just yet another example of those people doing everything they can to defeat the President, even if it means abandoning their own ideas.

If this was about the ideas or the way in which healthcare reform was done, I would agree with you, but this is being pushed by people who are repugnant.

You certainly implied it with this post


Let's go into GOP fantasy land for a minute, shall we?

Let's assume that Obamacare is repealed. Now what? Even Boehner, McConnell, heck, all of them, agree we need to reform healthcare because it is draining our economy far faster than any other single expense. It's costs are exploding, and I betcha you can't name a single Republican who doesn't agree with that.

So, in 1993, when we had this debate, the Democrats proposed a solution, and the GOP countered with Romneycare/Obamacare. Nothing was done, and the problem got worse. In the years between now and then, the GOP candidate for president enacted Romneycare, and guess what, it worked. It had broad bipartisan support.

Uh oh. A black man was elected president, and the GOP suddenly decided that its own solution to the healthcare crisis was no longer good enough. Now, again, let's assume Mitt wins. What is he going to do, knowing the last time he was in this position, he enacted Romneycare?

[mcrain]

You certainly implied it with this post

Oh, I personally believe it is racially motivated because why else would they suddenly do a 180 on their own ideas?

That being said, if you believe the Republicans, it is just coincidence. If you think I was implying something, perhaps it is because you too see the bizarre coincidence and conclude it probably isn't really a coincidence.

[ugahairydawgs]

Who said this was all racially motivated? There are many on the right who are racially motivated, and others who do everything they can to attract the racist vote. However, the healthcare debate is just yet another example of those people doing everything they can to defeat the President, even if it means abandoning their own ideas.

If this was about the ideas or the way in which healthcare reform was done, I would agree with you, but this is being pushed by people who are repugnant.

----------

We have been down this road before.

The GOP has ALWAYS opposed benefits for the elderly, the sick, and especially minorities. They have fought against SS, Medicare, Welfare, and any other aid or any program that benefits the poor because they don't like them.

I know I am pretty much just feeding the beast here, but what do you base your assertion that the GOP hates the poor on?

[mcrain]

I know I am pretty much just feeding the beast here, but what do you base your assertion that the GOP hates the poor on?

Policy and rhetoric. When you hear a President (Reagan) talk about welfare recipients driving Cadillacs. Minorities being described as "illegals" or worse. When you see a party actively attempting to cut every program that benefits the poor, the needy, the sick, the disabled...

What do you call it?

(edit) The fact that there are almost no minorities in the Republican party might be a small piece of evidence. They have very few female representatives, and (edit) That wasn't nice of me, I don't know them personally.

[leekohler]

Policy and rhetoric. When you hear a President (Reagan) talk about welfare recipients driving Cadillacs. Minorities being described as "illegals" or worse. When you see a party actively attempting to cut every program that benefits the poor, the needy, the sick, the disabled...

What do you call it?

(edit) The fact that there are almost no minorities in the Republican party might be a small piece of evidence. They have very few female representatives, and the ones they have aren't exactly mensa members.

Or, when Reagan cut funding for state mental hospitals, which effectively closed them and set mental patients loose on the street. That was nifty and forward-thinking.

[mcrain]

Or, when Reagan cut funding for state mental hospitals, which effectively closed them and set mental patients loose on the street. That was nifty and forward-thinking.

Hey, don't bash St. Reagan. At least he was effective in dealing with the gay plague. :rolleyes:

[leekohler]

Hey, don't bash St. Reagan. At least he was effective in dealing with the gay plague. :rolleyes:

Don't even get me started on that. That was unforgivable.

[mcrain]

Don't even get me started on that. That was unforgivable.

Have you seen "And the band played on?"

[leekohler]

Have you seen "And the band played on?"

I lived through it. And yes, I did.

[mcrain]

I lived through it. And yes, I did.

I lived through that time as well, but not from your perspective. It was interesting to see that period with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

[leekohler]

I lived through that time as well, but not from your perspective. It was interesting to see that period with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

People were so awful about it too. We were treated like lepers. It didn't matter if you had it or not.

[mcrain]

People were so awful about it too. We were treated like lepers. It didn't matter if you had it or not.

I remember being a kid and seeing news coverage of people in what looked like hazmat suits dealing with someone who looked or acted gay. It took me years to get over the ingrained prejudice from that period.

You would think we wouldn't keep making the same mistakes over and over, but we do.

[leekohler]

I remember being a kid and seeing news coverage of people in what looked like hazmat suits dealing with someone who looked or acted gay. It took me years to get over the ingrained prejudice from that period.

You would think we wouldn't keep making the same mistakes over and over, but we do.

Of course. It was crazy. I remember people not even wanting to be in the same room, forget drinking from a drinking fountain after a gay person or anything even remotely close to that. Many times entire swimming pools would empty if people thought someone there had it. People wouldn't let gay relatives near their kids. And of course there's far worse that happened.

It was truly a sad and very, very scary time.

[AhmedFaisal]

The problem is that with HIV being declared a "gay" disease and later HPC a "fixer" disease, we missed yet another chance to get people to understand the root of the problem is that you shouldn't stick your penis or vagina wherever you feel like without giving a lick of a thought as to the potential consequences no matter what floats your boat.

I remember during my time in college prior to meeting my wife and then when her and I were going through a phase of separation that girls I dated and my male friends with whom I discussed it looked at me like I was completely nuts when I said I wouldn't have sex with someone until we A were exclusive and B they had been tested for STDs. My wife was the first and only girl/guy I met that was on the same page as I was about that.

STDs shouldn't exist. Period. Not in this day and age.

[niuniu]

STDs shouldn't exist. Period. Not in this day and age.

Just have sex with fruit. I've been doin' it for years and never caught anything.


Old melons are best (save the PMs)

[leekohler]

The problem is that with HIV being declared a "gay" disease and later HPC a "fixer" disease, we missed yet another chance to get people to understand the root of the problem is that you shouldn't stick your penis or vagina wherever you feel like without giving a lick of a thought as to the potential consequences no matter what floats your boat.

I remember during my time in college prior to meeting my wife and then when her and I were going through a phase of separation that girls I dated and my male friends with whom I discussed it looked at me like I was completely nuts when I said I wouldn't have sex with someone until we A were exclusive and B they had been tested for STDs. My wife was the first and only girl/guy I met that was on the same page as I was about that.

STDs shouldn't exist. Period. Not in this day and age.

Well, you can't take the human equation out of the problem- namely, people make mistakes. As long as people are still human and not robots, STDs and the like will always be with us.

[iJohnHenry]

^^^Could someone please translate? :confused:

He's against Obama Cares.

Now you can go to bed with a clear mind.

;)

[MadeTheSwitch]

Wasting time? I thought elected officials went to Washington DC to represent the will of the people?

More than half of Americans want to see the bill repealed, so how is this wasting time?

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

More then half of Americans think congress is doing a poor job and their approval rating barely gets into the double digit numbers anymore. If they REALLY cared about doing the "will of the people" they would have packed their bags and returned home a long time ago or else they would have been focused on almost nothing but jobs bills all this time. Instead they have focused on repealing healthcare, abortion issues, and occasionally anti-gay marriage.

[leekohler]

More then half of Americans think congress is doing a poor job and their approval rating barely gets into the double digit numbers anymore. If they REALLY cared about doing the "will of the people" they would have packed their bags and returned home a long time ago or else they would have been focused on almost nothing but jobs bills all this time. Instead they have focused on repealing healthcare, abortion issues, and occasionally anti-gay marriage.

And you really thought they would focus on real problems?

Guys- wake up. The focus here is on power and money, nothing else.

[Eraserhead]

More then half of Americans think congress is doing a poor job and their approval rating barely gets into the double digit numbers anymore.

So basically 90% of Americans hate congress.

When's the revolution?

[Thomas Veil]

When's the revolution?Whenever the hell Americans can tear themselves away from Facebook and Dancing with the Stars. :mad:

[ericrwalker]

Whenever the hell Americans can tear themselves away from Facebook and Dancing with the Stars. :mad:

Lets not forget MacRumors.

[Zombie Acorn]

The racism **** is getting old, there were calls for it before he was elected, after he was elected and now before he gets re-elected. If the Repubs want to get dems on record for upholding this ****** bill 32 times so that dems get voted out in droves again so be it.

[trouble747]

And hey, there's nothing less racist then constantly feeding a conspiracy theory that the country's first BLACK president is not actually a natural born citizen but is really from AFRICA. Amirite?

[Rodimus Prime]

The racism **** is getting old, there were calls for it before he was elected, after he was elected and now before he gets re-elected. If the Repubs want to get dems on record for upholding this ****** bill 32 times so that dems get voted out in droves again so be it.

ok if it is a **** bill then why do they not put something up as an alternative at the same time.

We all agree reform needs to happen. You know the GOP could put a ****ing bill together that would fix it.

But it pretty clear GOP does not want reform. They want the poor dieing in the street. They do not care about anyone but the rich.

[likemyorbs]

You know, they say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.....

[mcrain]

The racism **** is getting old.

It is getting old. When will the GOP, the Conservative talk show hosts, Fox News, and more importantly those who vote for the GOP finally stop? (edit) There are racists who vote for Democrats, but the "southern strategy" continuing into this century is shameful.

[Zombie Acorn]

It is getting old. When will the GOP, the Conservative talk show hosts, Fox News, and more importantly those who vote for the GOP finally stop? (edit) There are racists who vote for Democrats, but the "southern strategy" continuing into this century is shameful.

Black Voters:

1996 Bill Clinton 84%
2008 Obama 95+%

11+% gap

Voter participation 1996: 49%
Voter participation 2008: ~65-67%

18% gap

White Voters:

1996 Bill Clinton 48%
2008 Obama 43%

5% gap

Voter participation in 1996: 59%
Voter participation in 2008: 66.1%

7% gap

Damn whites.

[leekohler]

Black Voters:

1996 Bill Clinton 84%
2008 Obama 95+%

11+% gap

Voter participation 1996: 49%
Voter participation 2008: ~65-67%

18% gap

White Voters:

1996 Bill Clinton 48%
2008 Obama 43%

5% gap

Voter participation in 1996: 59%
Voter participation in 2008: 66.1%

7% gap

Damn whites.

You can't address anything honestly, can you?

[mcrain]

Damn whites.

No one is suggesting all whites are racists, or that everyone in the GOP is white/racist/whatever. I think racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. are all on the decline. In fact, I'm happily shocked at how much things have changed since I was a teen.

However, there are still some out there who are blatently homophobic, racist, sexist, etc... and I can almost guarantee you that they don't feel uncomfortable at a tea party rally. They aren't shunned. They aren't made to feel embarrassed for their rhetoric or their bias. In fact, there is example after example of conservatives using language and images that are designed to attract those very voters.

That to me seems like something that should be snuffed out once and for all. I don't think you can ever get rid of racism or people who are bigots, but you sure as hell don't need to try to attract them or cater to them.

[Zombie Acorn]

No one is suggesting all whites are racists, or that everyone in the GOP is white/racist/whatever. I think racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. are all on the decline. In fact, I'm happily shocked at how much things have changed since I was a teen.

However, there are still some out there who are blatently homophobic, racist, sexist, etc... and I can almost guarantee you that they don't feel uncomfortable at a tea party rally. They aren't shunned. They aren't made to feel embarrassed for their rhetoric or their bias. In fact, there is example after example of conservatives using language and images that are designed to attract those very voters.

That to me seems like something that should be snuffed out once and for all. I don't think you can ever get rid of racism or people who are bigots, but you sure as hell don't need to try to attract them or cater to them.

Theres no denying there are racists, I just don't think they happen to frequent a macrumors technology message board to spread hate. I also don't think it's racist to ask your government for a little integrity in their voting systems. One citizen, one vote is all that many want. I can't speak to alternative motives by the GOP because I don't know anyone in charge of the organization. No one here is pressing a timeline, but it does need to be done IMO.

For a country that prides itself on technological advances it seems like the government is pretty low tech.

[leekohler]

No one is suggesting all whites are racists, or that everyone in the GOP is white/racist/whatever. I think racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. are all on the decline. In fact, I'm happily shocked at how much things have changed since I was a teen.

However, there are still some out there who are blatently homophobic, racist, sexist, etc... and I can almost guarantee you that they don't feel uncomfortable at a tea party rally. They aren't shunned. They aren't made to feel embarrassed for their rhetoric or their bias. In fact, there is example after example of conservatives using language and images that are designed to attract those very voters.

That to me seems like something that should be snuffed out once and for all. I don't think you can ever get rid of racism or people who are bigots, but you sure as hell don't need to try to attract them or cater to them.

Plus, all those stats prove is that the GOP has a difficult time getting the black vote. Now why do you suppose that is?

[Zombie Acorn]

Plus, all those stats prove is that the GOP has a difficult time getting the black vote. Now why do you suppose that is?

Probably because one of the biggest unions in the country, backing the democratic party, is more worried about keeping crappy teacher's jobs/keeping all teachers on the same payline regardless of performance than educating our poor black youth and making sure everyone has an excellent education.

So when you don't finish high school and have 0 choices in life except to sell drugs or work at mcdonalds I guess you would vote democrat because they are the party promising to take money from the middle/upper class and give it to the bottom.

If more blacks were middle/upper class we would likely see more blacks voting for red and a larger diversity of views.

[leekohler]

Probably because one of the biggest unions in the country, backing the democratic party, is more worried about keeping crappy teacher's jobs/keeping all teachers on the same payline regardless of performance than educating our poor black youth and making sure everyone has an excellent education.

So when you don't finish high school and have 0 choices in life except to sell drugs or work at mcdonalds I guess you would vote democrat because they are the party promising to take money from the middle/upper class and give it to the bottom.

If more blacks were middle/upper class we would likely see more blacks voting for red and a larger diversity of views.

Oh lord. Now you've just gone into looney land. Are you seriously telling me that 95+ percent of blacks are lower class? Ya know, all those blacks who voted for Obama?

Seriously, I'm white and upper middle class, and it'll be cold day in hell before I vote GOP.

[Zombie Acorn]

Oh lord. Now you've just gone into looney land. Are you seriously telling me that 90+ percent of blacks are lower class? Ya know, all those blacks who voted for Obama?

No, but income diversity among whites is much greater than that of blacks. Mostly because our unions with the help of government refuse to allow them a proper education because we are more worried about teacher's jobs.

38.2% of black children live in poverty in the US
12% of white children.

Now if only they had a way to get out of poverty... hmm.

[leekohler]

No, but income diversity among whites is much greater than that of blacks. Mostly because our unions with the help of government refuse to allow them a proper education because we are more worried about teacher's jobs.

38.2% of black children live in poverty in the US
12% of white children.

Now if only they had a way to get out of poverty... hmm.

That still does not address why blacks in general don't vote GOP. But I have to hand it to them, they're smart enough not to. Now if we could just get more people to stop voting for the GOP. Bottom line- the GOP courts racists and homophobes.

[citizenzen]

No, but income diversity among whites is much greater than that of blacks.

I wonder if history played any part of it.

Thoughts?

[mcrain]

Probably because one of the biggest unions in the country, backing the democratic party, is more worried about keeping crappy teacher's jobs/keeping all teachers on the same payline regardless of performance than educating our poor black youth and making sure everyone has an excellent education.

So when you don't finish high school and have 0 choices in life except to sell drugs or work at mcdonalds I guess you would vote democrat because they are the party promising to take money from the middle/upper class and give it to the bottom.

If more blacks were middle/upper class we would likely see more blacks voting for red and a larger diversity of views.

Two things. Unions aren't the problem when there are poor teachers. The problem is a lack of administrative oversight, direction and documentation. The Union is there to advocate for its members (kind of like a lawyer), and they should not roll over and just accept an administrative decision to terminate an employee's job. Here is an interesting article written by a school administrator you might find interesting. Link (http://www.edutopia.org/are-teacher-unions-problem)

Second, do you think anyone who chose to go into a profession that doesn't pay well at all did so to keep blacks poor so that they would vote for Democrats? That's pretty silly. In fact, the teachers who work in inner cities and in poor neighborhoods have an incredibly tough job, and the fact that they try and occassionally succeed is a testement to how good they really are.

Can you imagine trying to do a good job with their resources and the distractions that surround them? I bet you would do a far worse job than those professionals. You might want to give them the respect they deserve.

[Zombie Acorn]

I wonder if history played any part of it.

Thoughts?

History is history. It only takes one generation of well educated individuals to make a change, and the US has decided that it isn't important enough to pursue.

The prospects for the US in the next 20 years is bleak to say the least. If you were able to see what your private universities are doing to the poor like I do everyday you would be sick. Would you pay $40,000 for education that should have been achieved in high school? How about another $30-40,000 for a masters degree with the same curriculum as is typically taught in undergraduate courses in public universities? All funded by the US tax payer through federal grants and loans.

We are going to have a large swath of people with increasing credentials, but with less knowledge than the previous generation.

----------

Two things. Unions aren't the problem when there are poor teachers. The problem is a lack of administrative oversight, direction and documentation. The Union is there to advocate for its members (kind of like a lawyer), and they should not roll over and just accept an administrative decision to terminate an employee's job. Here is an interesting article written by a school administrator you might find interesting. Link (http://www.edutopia.org/are-teacher-unions-problem)

Second, do you think anyone who chose to go into a profession that doesn't pay well at all did so to keep blacks poor so that they would vote for Democrats? That's pretty silly. In fact, the teachers who work in inner cities and in poor neighborhoods have an incredibly tough job, and the fact that they try and occassionally succeed is a testement to how good they really are.

Can you imagine trying to do a good job with their resources and the distractions that surround them? I bet you would do a far worse job than those professionals. You might want to give them the respect they deserve.

I don't give people respect unless they deserve it, judging from our national ranking in the world with the amount of money spent they definitely do not deserve it. Administrators should be able to document and let their teachers go when needed. Do administrators have some sick reason to want to get rid of teachers? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to only keep the best performing teachers?

Some people weren't meant to be teachers and do it because it seems like a generic and easy profession. 3 months off a year etc. These people need to be removed. Tenure should only be granted to professors at universities.

[trouble747]

No, but income diversity among whites is much greater than that of blacks. Mostly because our unions with the help of government refuse to allow them a proper education because we are more worried about teacher's jobs.

38.2% of black children live in poverty in the US
12% of white children.

Now if only they had a way to get out of poverty... hmm.

So you're claiming that blacks are disproportionately poorer not because of a legacy of slavery, discrimination, and racism, but because of...unions?

:confused:

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I wonder if history played any part of it.

Thoughts?

Interesting theory, I wonder if there's anything to it!

;)

[mcrain]

Administrators should be able to document and let their teachers go when needed. Do administrators have some sick reason to want to get rid of teachers? Wouldn't it be in their best interest to only keep the best performing teachers?

Some people weren't meant to be teachers and do it because it seems like a generic and easy profession. 3 months off a year etc. These people need to be removed. Tenure should only be granted to professors at universities.

I'll tell you what. When the administrators figure out how to run the schools so that all the teachers perform better, perhaps then they might be given the deference to make the kinds of decisions you want. The people in charge set the tone and direction, and yet you think the person teaching 7th grade math in room 101 is the reason the school is failing.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

[Rodimus Prime]

No, but income diversity among whites is much greater than that of blacks. Mostly because our unions with the help of government refuse to allow them a proper education because we are more worried about teacher's jobs.

38.2% of black children live in poverty in the US
12% of white children.

Now if only they had a way to get out of poverty... hmm.

wow you just keep proving more and more how little you understand education and how it works.

Give you a hit most teachers are not part of a union.

Also how to you explain some right to work states being so far behind everyone else in education. Texas education is crap and we do not have teacher unions here.

A lot of the problems start at the the top with crappy education standards Teachers are required to teach. Like evolution is not allowed to be taught in Science class, Requiring creationsim to be taught as valid, oh yeah and not being allowed to teach with best pratices but instead going back to require them to use a method that is out dated by almost 20 years and shown not to be the best.

[Zombie Acorn]

wow you just keep proving more and more how little you understand education and how it works.

Give you a hit most teachers are not part of a union.

Also how to you explain some right to work states being so far behind everyone else in education. Texas education is crap and we do not have teacher unions here.

A lot of the problems start at the the top with crappy education standards Teachers are required to teach. Like evolution is not allowed to be taught in Science class, Requiring creationsim to be taught as valid, oh yeah and not being allowed to teach with best pratices but instead going back to require them to use a method that is out dated by almost 20 years and shown not to be the best.

Most public school teachers aren't part of unions, yet the two unions have about 5-6 million members?

We are failing by even our own standards so who are you going to blame next? This generation of kids dumber than the last?

[trouble747]

There are states without strong government employee unions. How are they doing?

----------

...or alternatively, look at countries with amazing public education systems. Are their teachers unionized, or not?

[mcrain]

Most public school teachers aren't part of unions, yet the two unions have about 5-6 million members?

We are failing by even our own standards so who are you going to blame next? This generation of kids dumber than the last?

I blame God, GWB and home schooling. Oh, and dumb parents who actually think we need stuff the right-wing has proposed despite massive evidence to the contrary. (See voting thread).

[MadeTheSwitch]

The racism **** is getting old, there were calls for it before he was elected, after he was elected and now before he gets re-elected. If the Repubs want to get dems on record for upholding this ****** bill 32 times so that dems get voted out in droves again so be it.

So the racism thing is getting old but voting over and over against healthcare isn't? I think it's pretty clear where everyone stands on this. No need for another vote.

[Rodimus Prime]

You know what is really funny is the GOP says all of this goverment waste and they do 31 show votes.

How much have they wasted on this. NPR crunch some numbers and found that it cost about 2 mill a day for the House when everything is added up. So how much time have they wasted on these 31 votes. I say we got the picture after the 2 or 3 show vote. But after that it is 100% pure waste.

[hulugu]

You know what is really funny is the GOP says all of this goverment waste and they do 31 show votes.

How much have they wasted on this. NPR crunch some numbers and found that it cost about 2 mill a day for the House when everything is added up. So how much time have they wasted on these 31 votes. I say we got the picture after the 2 or 3 show vote. But after that it is 100% pure waste.

I liked that calculation. We've spent about $60 million trying to repeal the law.

Can we spend $60 million putting together jobs legislation now? Or fixing the budget? Or extending the debt limit?

[mcrain]

I liked that calculation. We've spent about $60 million trying to repeal the law.

Can we spend $60 million putting together jobs legislation now? Or fixing the budget? Or extending the debt limit?

Or hire 1000 new teachers for a year at $60,000.

[Huntn]

This has to be one of the reasons to hate Obamacare:

Medicare beneficiaries reach $5 billion in drug savings (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2012/12/02/drug-discounts-save-money/1737835/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+usatoday-NewsTopStories+%28News+-+Top+Stories%29&utm_content=Netvibes), right? right?

12:01AM EST December 3. 2012 - Since passage of the health care overhaul two years ago, 5.8 million Medicare patients have saved $5 billion from prescription drug discounts, and the government can now predict lower health care costs based on increased use of these cheaper drugs.

[VulchR]

You know what is really funny is the GOP says all of this goverment waste and they do 31 show votes.

How much have they wasted on this. NPR crunch some numbers and found that it cost about 2 mill a day for the House when everything is added up. So how much time have they wasted on these 31 votes. I say we got the picture after the 2 or 3 show vote. But after that it is 100% pure waste.

Let's sue for our share of the money.

[Eraserhead]

white and upper middle class

(Sorry for the slow reply)

AKA Upper class.