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MacRumors
Jul 10, 2012, 02:28 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/10/why-apples-7-85-inch-ipad-mini-isnt-a-7-inch-tablet/)


With rumors of an "iPad mini" launch in the coming months ramping up (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/03/bloomberg-ipad-mini-coming-in-october/), there has been much discussion about just how usable such a device would be running at the 1024x768 resolution of pre-Retina iPad models. In particular, some commenters have pointed to Steve Jobs' October 2010 discussion (http://www.macrumors.com/2010/10/18/steve-jobs-criticizes-7-inch-tablets-says-10-inches-minimum/) of the 7-inch tablets from competitors that were just then hitting the market, where he outlined Apple's belief that such tablets were too small to be useful.

While we argued (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/12/23/this-is-what-a-7-85-inch-ipad-looks-and-feels-like/) as long ago as last December that scaling the iPad display down to a rumored 7.85-inch screen would still maintain usability and we provided iPad- and print- friendly examples to allow users to test for themselves, many have remain unconvinced of the benefits of a smaller iPad.

Daring Fireball's John Gruber now takes another detailed look (http://daringfireball.net/2012/07/this_ipad_mini_thing) at what an iPad mini would entail, arguing that a 7.85-inch display on an iPad mini would be a very different experience from the 7-inch screen being used by competitors such as Amazon's Kindle Fire and Google's Nexus 7.So, how can we square the idea of Apple making an iPad Mini with Jobs's remarks from just a year and a half ago? We could point out (again) that 7.85 inches is closer to 8 inches than 7, and that the exact size of the purported iPad Mini display offers 66 percent of the surface area of a 9.7-inch iPad, not 45 percent [as is the case with a 7-inch display]. We could point out (again) that, assuming Apple-recommended 44-point user interface tap targets on a display with 163 points per inch, it should offer tap targets of the exact same physical size as every iPhone made to date, thus avoiding the need for Apple to include sandpaper with the device.http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/07/tablet_size_comparison.jpg
Comparison of "iPad mini" to 7-inch tablets and full-size iPad (Source: @trojankitten (https://twitter.com/trojankitten/status/221270669273468930), via Daring Fireball (http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/07/10/screen-size-comparison))
Gruber goes on to note that Jobs was panning small, expensive tablets running a version of Android never intended to be used on devices larger than phones and that the tablets hitting the market today are very different products. He also points to Jobs' repeated efforts at misdirection in which he publicly spoke out against certain ideas even as Apple was pursuing them, as well as Jobs' ability to quickly and decisively change his mind at times.

Beyond the size of the iPad mini, Gruber also addresses the topic of a non-Retina display in the device, suggesting that with Apple seeking to keep pricing down the display will be one of the main ways it can achieve its desired pricing while retaining significant margins. The iPad mini would naturally gain a Retina display a year or two down the road as pricing continues to drop.

Finally, in addressing pricing on the rumored iPad mini Gruber suggests that Apple could approach the $199 pricing seen on the Kindle Fire and Nexus 7 by leveraging its massive supply chain and economies of scale to bring its own costs down to the neighborhood of $150 and still maintain profitability. But even pricing of $249 could be competitive depending on hardware features and factoring in the benefits of Apple's extensive iOS/iTunes/App Store ecosystem for customers.

Article Link: Why Apple's 7.85-Inch 'iPad Mini' Isn't a 7-Inch Tablet (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/10/why-apples-7-85-inch-ipad-mini-isnt-a-7-inch-tablet/)



Slix
Jul 10, 2012, 02:32 PM
I guess we'll see what Apple does this fall...

MacFather
Jul 10, 2012, 02:33 PM
Without Steve everything is possible...

BigJohno
Jul 10, 2012, 02:35 PM
Without Steve everything is possible...

At the time of when steve said it there was no 7 inch tab that was very good. Im sure they have had a ton of different sizes in the lab. Only time will tell. It will replace the ipod touch.

CrAkD
Jul 10, 2012, 02:36 PM
if gruber is saying its possible than its most likely coming. he doesn't usually speak up unless he knows for sure its coming.

boy-better-know
Jul 10, 2012, 02:37 PM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

starflyer
Jul 10, 2012, 02:37 PM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

I'll take that bet.

slippyr4
Jul 10, 2012, 02:38 PM
So this is how the Steve-is-infallible fanatics will explain the U-turn.

miniroll32
Jul 10, 2012, 02:39 PM
It's only a daydream, but I'd love an iBooks device... thing... that only had the iBooks App and the store to go with it. Instant on to the bookshelf, instant off.

That to me would be a good excuse for a mini-iReading device, and it would no doubt be cheaper too.

BornAgainApple
Jul 10, 2012, 02:40 PM
I like the iPad just the way it is. If they come out with a mini, so be it. But I'll gladly pay for the extra real estate.

apolloa
Jul 10, 2012, 02:41 PM
Between that iPad mock up and the Nexus 7, I'll take the Nexus 7 shape ANYDAY! That mock up is far too fat to be useful as a smaller tablet, you may as well not bother and just get the normal iPad.
As for $150 hahahahahahahahahahaha yeeeaaahhhh rrriiiggghhhhtttt!

As I have said multiple times I don't believe it will be $200, Apple will need to drop the entire iPod Touch range to launch an iPad with a $200 price tag.

I think we have far too many people jumping on the 7" iPad band wagon now and you just don't know what to believe as being possible.

Westside guy
Jul 10, 2012, 02:41 PM
If each of us just copied and pasted our existing posts from all the recent 7.85" iPad Mini rumor threads on this site, I bet this new discussion wouldn't look appreciably different from how it will actually turn out.

GREEN4U
Jul 10, 2012, 02:41 PM
I hate Apple's bezels with a fervent passion.

hobo.hopkins
Jul 10, 2012, 02:41 PM
If they can offer a smaller iPad at $250 they'll retain their major lead in the tablet market for the foreseeable future.

Mad Mac Maniac
Jul 10, 2012, 02:42 PM
It makes you wonder. A great deal of the 7" tablet appeal was for an extremely small, light, and portable e-reader. Will making the iPad Mini 40% larger than these 7" tablets actually take away from this appeal?

nikhsub1
Jul 10, 2012, 02:42 PM
I'll take that bet.
So you would be against a smaller iPad having the retina display? Not a very wise bet IMO.

Allenbf
Jul 10, 2012, 02:43 PM
Doesn't the title say it all? It's not a 7 inch tablet if it's 7.85 inches, anyway.

Duh.

Slight sarcasm aside, I dunno. I think I'd like to see the mini, at those suggested price points. I'd buy one for my middle schooler, could be a great tool for the education community. But (just my opinion, I'm frequently wrong) I don't think it'd have as much bang w/o the retina display.

Yvan256
Jul 10, 2012, 02:43 PM
[...]As for $150 hahahahahahahahahahaha yeeeaaahhhh rrriiiggghhhhtttt![...]

Similar comments were made about the iPad before it launched. Most people thought it would cost 1000$ or more. And a lot of people still expected it to fail even at 500$ once it launched.

PlaceofDis
Jul 10, 2012, 02:43 PM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

it won't. means it keeps costs down + higher profit margin, and gives them an easy feature to use for upgrading in the next 1-2 years.

Daalseth
Jul 10, 2012, 02:44 PM
Currently I have an iPod Touch. It's the single most useful Apple product that I own. I literally have it either on my desk, in my pack, or on the nightstand 24/7. When it comes time to replace it what are the options:

Our full sized iPad is wonderfully powerful but a bit too large to carry with me every day.
The iPod Touch is great for carrying but it's a bit too small for web surfing and underpowered for some tasks.
A 7" device might be "just right".

cube
Jul 10, 2012, 02:45 PM
- Galaxy Note or similar phone with unbreakable screen (still fitting a standard shirt pocket).
- A4-sized iPad

That's what's needed.

DogHouseDub
Jul 10, 2012, 02:45 PM
iPad mini or an iPhone maxi?

bharatgupta
Jul 10, 2012, 02:46 PM
ipad 2 399 $

ipad mini 249 $, sure why not

7.85 inch display makes sense, i would buy it, ipad is following same business model as ipod which is great for apple, more success to come for apple with this product, beware competition:D

oneofakind
Jul 10, 2012, 02:46 PM
Of course its the new Tab Remote for the New Apple TV! :cool:

slicecom
Jul 10, 2012, 02:47 PM
Without Steve everything is possible...

Yeah, like video iPod's and iBooks.

flipnap
Jul 10, 2012, 02:47 PM
I hate Apple's bezels with a fervent passion.

youd want a thinner bezel so your fingers constantly touch the screen?

Renzatic
Jul 10, 2012, 02:47 PM
I hate Apple's bezels with a fervent passion.

I don't get the bezel hate. It's like you read an article on any tablet, and sooner or later, someone will bring up how the bezel is stupid and should be smaller.

"I saw a picture of the new iPad the other day, and it still has that ABSOLUTELY USELESS BEZEL! I hate how Apple put a space around the screen that I can grip without directly touching the screen because that's totally stupid and the screen could be bigger without it or something and OH GOD IT JUST MAKES ME SOOOOO MAAAADDD".

fertilized-egg
Jul 10, 2012, 02:47 PM
Between that iPad mock up and the Nexus 7, I'll take the Nexus 7 shape ANYDAY! That mock up is far too fat to be useful as a smaller tablet, you may as well not bother and just get the normal iPad.

The rumor has been consistently linking the smaller iPad using the in-cell technology to reduce the bezel, which makes a lot of sense since it'll mostly solve the width problem.

WardC
Jul 10, 2012, 02:48 PM
I am ready for my multi-touch TABLETOP COMPUTER!!

BRING IT APPLE.

(and yes, it's amazing how nobody has really done this yet, when the technology is fully there...yet Apple makes these tiny devices like the iPhone and iPad -- a full-size multitouch computing environment of a desktop scale would be a revolutionary product that could birth a new generation of computing as we know it.)

CrAkD
Jul 10, 2012, 02:48 PM
So this is how the Steve-is-infallible fanatics will explain the U-turn.

If you knew anything about steve you would know he was known to change directions if convinced it was the best idea.

bharatgupta
Jul 10, 2012, 02:49 PM
Of course its the new Tab Remote for the New Apple TV! :cool:
january 2013 will be like january 27, 2007 what say?

apolloa
Jul 10, 2012, 02:49 PM
It makes you wonder. A great deal of the 7" tablet appeal was for an extremely small, light, and portable e-reader. Will making the iPad Mini 40% larger than these 7" tablets actually take away from this appeal?

This, totally agree, when you look at the Fire and Nexus 7, they are great for holding one handed, that mock up would never allow you to comfortably do that.

Similar comments were made about the iPad before it launched. Most people thought it would cost 1000$ or more. And a lot of people still expected it to fail even at 500$ once it launched.

I'm sure their were, but $150 for an Apple iPad? Don't think so, unless Apple wishes to damage sales for ALL it's iPod's?

Just look here:

http://store.apple.com/us

iPod Touch from $199
iPod Nano from $129
iPod Classic from $249

So what do you think would happen to the sales of those devices if Apple launched a $150 or $200 or even $250 iPad? Apple is many things, but it isn't stupid.

divinox
Jul 10, 2012, 02:49 PM
To me, Gruber misses the point completely. That the iPad mini is not a 7" tablet is a negative. Then again, to each his own. For me, however, 4:3 will never do it for me (at least not above 5" or so, not sure at what exact point 4:3 becomes too big to carry; 7.85", however, is definitely beyond that point).

ixodes
Jul 10, 2012, 02:49 PM
Without Steve everything is possible...
Without Steve, nearly everything reasonable is permissible. :)

bharatgupta
Jul 10, 2012, 02:50 PM
If you knew anything about steve you would know he was known to change directions if convinced it was the best idea.

apple needs to crush competition, same thing happened in ipod and ipod killed crappy mp3 toys back then, now they need to crush android based crap in the market, and giving customers the choice and experience that only apple has, what say?

poloponies
Jul 10, 2012, 02:51 PM
I am ready for my multi-touch TABLETOP COMPUTER!!

BRING IT APPLE.

(and yes, it's amazing how nobody has really done this yet, when the technology is fully there...yet Apple makes these tiny devices like the iPhone and iPad -- a full-size multitouch computing environment of a desktop scale would be a revolutionary product that could birth a new generation of computing as we know it.)

Like Microsoft's former Surface (now PixelSense)?

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/pixelsense/default.aspx

Mad Mac Maniac
Jul 10, 2012, 02:51 PM
iPad mini or an iPhone maxi?

How about the Maxi iPad?....

:D

xkmxkmxlmx
Jul 10, 2012, 02:52 PM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

But then how will they tempt you to upgrade to the iPad mini 2?

apolloa
Jul 10, 2012, 02:52 PM
The rumor has been consistently linking the smaller iPad using the in-cell technology to reduce the bezel, which makes a lot of sense since it'll mostly solve the width problem.

It will still be wider then the Nexus 7 and it still needs to have a bezel to help you hold it, not very easy to hold something with just a touch screen covering the entire front surface with no bezel.

organerito
Jul 10, 2012, 02:53 PM
youd want a thinner bezel so your fingers constantly touch the screen?

Perhaps, he doesn't want an ugly tablet. Huge bezel=ugly

kalex
Jul 10, 2012, 02:54 PM
Apple and affordable don't go together. If there will be ipad mini it will be far from affordable

WestonHarvey1
Jul 10, 2012, 02:55 PM
People just don't understand area. They think 7 must be about the same thing as 7.85. Why, it's only 0.85 bigger! Steve was wrong!

poloponies
Jul 10, 2012, 02:55 PM
apple needs to crush competition, same thing happened in ipod and ipod killed crappy mp3 toys back then, now they need to crush android based crap in the market, and giving customers the choice and experience that only apple has, what say?

I don't get the "Apple must crush Android" talk. Why must it crush anything? Aren't the people on this forum always talking about how choice is supposedly good?

flipnap
Jul 10, 2012, 02:55 PM
But then how will they tempt you to upgrade to the iPad mini 2?

do you seriously think they had retina tech ready to go on the ipad 2 but they "held out" so youd have to upgrade the next year? look at all the beef about the rMBP for gods sake, everyone saying they released it before the tech was ready (ridiculous as well).

man, theyre damned either way

writingdevil
Jul 10, 2012, 02:55 PM
Without Steve, nearly everything reasonable is permissible. :)

The beauty of Steve's thinking and today of Sir Ives is... reasonable isn't of interest. Going outside the safe zone is where the genius lies.

Aqua Bliss
Jul 10, 2012, 02:56 PM
youd want a thinner bezel so your fingers constantly touch the screen?

Every time I use my iPad my fingers constantly touch the screen.

7.85" at 4x3 with a bezel half the size would be perfect.

flipnap
Jul 10, 2012, 02:57 PM
Perhaps, he doesn't want an ugly tablet. Huge bezel=ugly

my point is, how would you hold it? your fingers would be touching the screen, constantly. the bezel is a place for your fingers to go.. maybe with in cell tech they can figure out a way around it. I can see it now, apple releases a thin bezel iPad and the forums fill up with comments like "how does apple expect me to use this when all i do is hold it and my fingers trigger all kinds of things. I guess im 'holding it wrong'"

nagromme
Jul 10, 2012, 02:58 PM
Also of note: the 9.7” iPad has about the same square inches of display as those 10.1” tablets. They have a narrow shape that sounds better on paper than in practice, for most tasks.

10.1” widescreen tablets are 45.8 sq. in.

9.7” iPad is 45.2 sq. in.

[math corrected]

flipnap
Jul 10, 2012, 02:59 PM
Apple and affordable don't go together. If there will be ipad mini it will be far from affordable

there are PLENTY of people who can afford apple products. are you aware the very computer you just typed this on is a RIDICULOUSLY expensive product for a lot of people in the world?

bharatgupta
Jul 10, 2012, 02:59 PM
I don't get the "Apple must crush Android" talk. Why must it crush anything? Aren't the people on this forum always talking about how choice is supposedly good?

yes choice is good not the idea of flooding the market with prod like kindle fire n other tablets that never took off, imagine folks who bought these products, what value it holds? now compare all that to original ipad, the ipad1 its still more valuable then all these half-assed products combined

knucklehead
Jul 10, 2012, 03:01 PM
I don't get the bezel hate. It's like you read an article on any tablet, and sooner or later, someone will bring up how the bezel is stupid and should be smaller.

"I saw a picture of the new iPad the other day, and it still has that ABSOLUTELY USELESS BEZEL! I hate how Apple put a space around the screen that I can grip without directly touching the screen because that's totally stupid and the screen could be bigger without it or something and OH GOD IT JUST MAKES ME SOOOOO MAAAADDD".

The bezel on the proposed mini screen size is key to how it can be used. It can be one handed, so wide bezels on the sides aren't needed for adult sized hands.
Wide bezels on the sides will increase the width, and make it less portable.

kalex
Jul 10, 2012, 03:02 PM
there are PLENTY of people who can afford apple products. are you aware the very computer you just typed this on is a RIDICULOUSLY expensive product for a lot of people in the world?

Before u start yelling and screaming read my post again.

Renzatic
Jul 10, 2012, 03:03 PM
The beauty of Steve's thinking and today of Sir Ives is... reasonable isn't of interest. Going outside the safe zone is where the genius lies.

So where's my stylus? I wanna draw and write on my tablet, damnit. Not exist in some ethereal Zone of Self Defined Innovation where the finger is king, because by God we said so.

slippyr4
Jul 10, 2012, 03:04 PM
apple needs to crush competition, same thing happened in ipod and ipod killed crappy mp3 toys back then, now they need to crush android based crap in the market, and giving customers the choice and experience that only apple has, what say?

So if apple "crush" the "android based crap" in the market, exactly how does that give customers choice?

fertilized-egg
Jul 10, 2012, 03:04 PM
It will still be wider then the Nexus 7 and it still needs to have a bezel to help you hold it, not very easy to hold something with just a touch screen covering the entire front surface with no bezel.

With a smaller tablet you don't need that much room because you don't always hold it with two hands and even with two hands you don't need a big bezel for your thumb. You can hold the sides easily. I have a 7" tablet and the bezel is really oversized for its usage.

PrometheusGeek
Jul 10, 2012, 03:07 PM
It's only a daydream, but I'd love an iBooks device... thing... that only had the iBooks App and the store to go with it. Instant on to the bookshelf, instant off.

That to me would be a good excuse for a mini-iReading device, and it would no doubt be cheaper too.

Yes. I'm for this.

For me right now, the two things that keep me buying books from Amazon in Kindle format are: (1) More titles; (2) eInk displays that work nicely by the pool.
I think that the iBook store will continue to grow and thus address that first concern more and more. But I still don't enjoy trying to read my iPad out by the pool. If Apple released a super-inexpensive iBook reader for outdoor use - with wifi built in - that synced bookmarks, notes, highlights and reading progress just like any other iOS device - then I'd buy it yesterday.

poloponies
Jul 10, 2012, 03:08 PM
yes choice is good not the idea of flooding the market with prod like kindle fire n other tablets that never took off, imagine folks who bought these products, what value it holds? now compare all that to original ipad, the ipad1 its still more valuable then all these half-assed products combined

It's giving people an option to get a $199 tablet that works well as a reader and for many of the functions that a lot of people want tablets for. It's no iPad but it doesn't have to be.

koolmagicguy
Jul 10, 2012, 03:09 PM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

I agree. The new iPads, iPhone 4 and 4S, iPod touch (4th gen) and now MacBooks (Retina Pro and upcoming 13" MBPs?) sport Retina displays. It would be the easiest thing in the world for Apple to make iPad mini with a Retina display as well.

Plutonius
Jul 10, 2012, 03:10 PM
At the time of when steve said it there was no 7 inch tab that was very good. Im sure they have had a ton of different sizes in the lab. Only time will tell. It will replace the ipod touch.

A 7 inch iPad will not easily fit in your pocket (i.e. not a iPod Touch replacement).

d0vr
Jul 10, 2012, 03:13 PM
Gruber goes on to note that Jobs was panning small, expensive tablets running a version of Android never intended to be used on devices larger than phones....

And iOS WAS intended for devices larger than phones!? :eek: I feel like I am missing a crucial piece of information here.

----------

The bezel on the proposed mini screen size is key to how it can be used. It can be one handed, so wide bezels on the sides aren't needed for adult sized hands.
Wide bezels on the sides will increase the width, and make it less portable.

So... bezel and button less 7.85" tablet is what you're saying right? :) I'm all in for that!

JoeG4
Jul 10, 2012, 03:14 PM
lol I wonder what John Gruber was smoking.

knucklehead
Jul 10, 2012, 03:18 PM
And iOS WAS intended for devices larger than phones!? :eek: I feel like I am missing a crucial piece of information here.

----------



So... bezel and button less 7.85" tablet is what you're saying right? :) I'm all in for that!

Probably not -- just narrow side bezels ... I hope.

----------

lol I wonder what John Gruber was smoking.

A well packed bowl of insight.

shamino
Jul 10, 2012, 03:20 PM
Am I the only one who thinks that if an "iPad mini" is introduced, that the iPod Touch should be renamed to "iPad nano"? :rolleyes:

For me right now, the two things that keep me buying books from Amazon in Kindle format are: (1) More titles; (2) eInk displays that work nicely by the pool.
You mean Kindle hardware, right? Amazon has a free Kindle reader app for iOS and other platforms, so you can buy books in Kindle format and read them on your iPad (or whatever you're using). The selection of titles doesn't matter if the app is free, since you'll only pay for what you want. And eInk (obviously) only applies to the hardware.

The only downside to the Kindle app for iOS is that there's no in-app purchases of books. You need to log on to Amazon's web site to buy the books. Then the app can download them.
A 7 inch iPad will not easily fit in your pocket (i.e. not a iPod Touch replacement).
Depends on the size of your pockets :)

But yes, 7" is too big for most people's pants pockets. It may, however, fit in jacket/coat pockets, and it would definitely fit into a purse.

GREEN4U
Jul 10, 2012, 03:23 PM
youd want a thinner bezel so your fingers constantly touch the screen?

Why do you defend poor design?

They wouldn't touch the screen necessarily. That's just what everyone thinks. Most likely, you'd adapt and find a way to make it work. In the end, you'd have a lighter/smaller product or a bigger screen.

Same goes for the iMac 'chin' and everything else.

Mad Mac Maniac
Jul 10, 2012, 03:24 PM
And iOS WAS intended for devices larger than phones!? :eek: I feel like I am missing a crucial piece of information here

Well... actually yes, in two ways. First the iOS project had originally began as a tablet project which just happened to be released on a phone first.

But I'm sure you don't like that answer. iOS was redesigned in a few core ways to run on the iPad vs the iPhone. Sure this mostly just consisted in redesigning all the individual apps. Prior to Honeycomb, Android hadn't been designed for tablets. So all those 7" tabs were completely just the phone OS blown up on a tablet. Imagine if every single app on the iPad (stock apps included) were simply x2 of the iPhone apps... yikes!

rumors-reader
Jul 10, 2012, 03:25 PM
So essentially.....nobody knows what's coming.

Ddyracer
Jul 10, 2012, 03:27 PM
Looks way too wide horizontally. Which is a gripe I have with the current iPad.

gnasher729
Jul 10, 2012, 03:28 PM
So this is how the Steve-is-infallible fanatics will explain the U-turn.

Steve Jobs was not Margaret Thatcher.

lifeinhd
Jul 10, 2012, 03:30 PM
If they can sell these for $249 or even $299 I'll buy one, maybe two. I've had a removable iPad install in my dashboard since Sept 2010, it works great but it's just a bit too large for my car's cramped center console. I could built a 7" tablet in, and it would look great.

And to those dissing a 7" tablet because "I don't want one," please bear in mind you are not representative of 100% of the population :rolleyes:

koban4max
Jul 10, 2012, 03:31 PM
I don't believe this...damn apple...where is innovation? stop with small increment and start using your vision.

EDIT: Apparently, some loser got offended because I was telling the truth. Truth hurts, little boy.

ObjectiveV
Jul 10, 2012, 03:32 PM
I don't think the first iPad mini will have retina, but the iPad Mini 2 certainly will.

Asclepio
Jul 10, 2012, 03:33 PM
Steve Jobs would have not approved it.

Rocketman
Jul 10, 2012, 03:33 PM
Of the images shown I think it is closest to the Nexus with a narrow side and top chin to make single hand hold easier. Like a big iPhone.

I also think it will be one device for many uses. In-car GPS, remote control, educational and kid iPad, oversize iPodTouch, Magic trac pad, mobile media device, voip, skype, and others.

It is a "third generation" pad. 1. iPod Touch, iPhone, 2. iPad, 3. iPad Mini.

I think it might have a dock port on two sides or 802.11ac. I think if it has one dock port it will be on the long side.

Rocketman

I agree Steve's mini iPad talk was largely FUD and mis-direction, with some factoids to stitch it together and add suspended disbelief.

baummer
Jul 10, 2012, 03:40 PM
if gruber is saying its possible than its most likely coming. he doesn't usually speak up unless he knows for sure its coming.

Bull. Gruber has been wrong many times. He was one of the Apple fanatic writers who said that the iPad 3 was going to be released last Fall. He was pretty emphatic, then was quiet when fall came and went.

I also am not sure I like that MR is basically rehashing Gruber's post as new information when it is nothing but pure opinion. I don't see it as a rumor either, just one man opining on a rumored smaller iPad (or bigger iPod whatever stance you take).

iSee
Jul 10, 2012, 03:42 PM
So this is how the Steve-is-infallible fanatics will explain the U-turn.

I don't think very many Steve-is-infallible fanatics actually exist.

Steve is well know to change his mind.
Surely almost all Steve-fanatics know this.

In fact, it may be one of the things that people admire about him since it takes some courage to face the inevitible criticism for doing so.

BornAgainMac
Jul 10, 2012, 03:43 PM
Perfect size for FaceTime.

Acorn
Jul 10, 2012, 03:44 PM
I remember when people argued that no one wanted a tablet and it was a dumb idea and look how many they have sold. so my opinion on the smaller is no matter what people say they would sell a crapload of them and thats what matters. I know i would buy one for at least 4 family members that enjoy the simplicity of tablets compared to computers. on an ipad if they get confused or dont understand whats going on they can just press the home button and all is right with the world again. my parents are afraid of computers because they are always afraid they will screw them up or delete the wrong thing. not so with tablets. being able to just press the home button when they get lost is huge.

boy-better-know
Jul 10, 2012, 03:47 PM
I'll take that bet.

I only have 5.60, so not great odds

JHankwitz
Jul 10, 2012, 03:49 PM
I hate Apple's bezels with a fervent passion.
How do you hold onto it without activating a feature while touching the non-benzeled display? There's not enough benzel on the iPad the way it is. I'm constantly unintentionally triggering something while holding it.

Jungo
Jul 10, 2012, 03:52 PM
I'll buy this just to use in my car - gps etc. - cd slot mount
the iphone is TOO small
and the current pad to huge.

laxic
Jul 10, 2012, 03:53 PM
I agree. The new iPads, iPhone 4 and 4S, iPod touch (4th gen) and now MacBooks (Retina Pro and upcoming 13" MBPs?) sport Retina displays. It would be the easiest thing in the world for Apple to make iPad mini with a Retina display as well.

Certainly, apple could make it, but with the price of the display being the biggest cost of the current iPad, I think apple would be more inclined to keep the cost as low as possible to be have a competitive price against the Kindle Fire and Nexus 7, whilst maintaining their typical >50% profit margin from cost of production to retail price, most likely with an 'iPad Mini' at $299, with apple "pixel doubling" to 2048 x 1536 a year or two down the line (much greater than "retina" on a 7.85in display) in order to prevent fragmentation for screen resolutions.

iSee
Jul 10, 2012, 03:54 PM
So where's my stylus? I wanna draw and write on my tablet, damnit. Not exist in some ethereal Zone of Self Defined Innovation where the finger is king, because by God we said so.

Here:

http://www.amazon.com/Capacitive-Cellphone-Motorola-BlackBerry-AMM0101US/dp/B0053NBLFW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341953277&sr=8-1&keywords=ipad+stylus

Or, here:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/10/2925937/best-stylus-ipad-review

haravikk
Jul 10, 2012, 03:55 PM
I'm still not sold on the idea; if portability is the main concern then I think an iPod Touch is the better option since it's (sort of) pocket-sized. Anything bigger requires a bag so you may as well just use a normal iPad.

jwdsail
Jul 10, 2012, 03:57 PM
I'm still pretty sure that any 7" device Apple makes will be marketed as an iPod Touch.

iPod and iPhone apps, wifi only, focus on e-reading, gaming, music and movies.. I think they'll optimize the display, processor/graphics and battery to make the best possible use of that 7" for these tasks..

I don't see it being an iPad..

7" iPod Touch 8GB $249, 16GB $299, 32GB $399

I'll be glad to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

flipnap
Jul 10, 2012, 03:57 PM
Why do you defend poor design?

They wouldn't touch the screen necessarily. That's just what everyone thinks. Most likely, you'd adapt and find a way to make it work. In the end, you'd have a lighter/smaller product or a bigger screen.

Same goes for the iMac 'chin' and everything else.

laughable.. its an ergonomic issue, has nothing to do with design. So i guess if they made one with a thin bezel and everyone started bashing apple because their fat fingers kept triggering the screen, we be back to the big bezel. Do you own an ipad? if so, next time you use it put your thumbs and fingers over past the bezel onto the screen and see how long you can stand it, if you can even use it at all..

JTStarkiller
Jul 10, 2012, 03:57 PM
I've been wanting an iPad for a year or two now, mainly to read digital comics through Comixology. I'm sure once I get one I'll use it for other things, but that's my main desire. $500 for a comic reader is insanely expensive, which is why a $199-249 price point would probably get me to grab that one instead. I'm leaning towards a Fire, but if Apple could get one out less than $300 I'm sticking with Apple.

EDIT: Actually, I've been reading that DC isn't even on the Kindle anymore, so if that's true, it's pretty much Apple or nothing for me.

laxic
Jul 10, 2012, 03:58 PM
I hate Apple's bezels with a fervent passion.

When the original iPad was released, I completely agreed with you. I wanted the mock up 9.7" display with bezel around the entire device the size of the bezel on the side of the iPhone.

It was not until I used the Kindle Touch that I realized why Apple has the bezel as it does: it is maddeningly difficult to hold the device with one hand with such little bezel on the sides. Perhaps you don't use the iPad for reading, to which I say I hope such a bezel-less iPad is released one day for you (it would be quite stunning, in my opinion)

jwdsail
Jul 10, 2012, 04:02 PM
And iOS WAS intended for devices larger than phones!? :eek: I feel like I am missing a crucial piece of information here.

----------




Yes, you're missing where the iPad was being developed, thought of, before the iPhone... They just moved forward w/ the iPhone first.

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2010/06/02/d8-jobs-says-apple-actually-developed-ipad-before-the-iphone/

kiljoy616
Jul 10, 2012, 04:03 PM
Steve taught them well, I still don't see this rumor coming in my lifetime which is a good thing. :) Android people if you want a toy. :rolleyes:

Dornblaser
Jul 10, 2012, 04:05 PM
That size would also appeal to some business travelers who like to travel light.

kiljoy616
Jul 10, 2012, 04:06 PM
Here:

http://www.amazon.com/Capacitive-Cellphone-Motorola-BlackBerry-AMM0101US/dp/B0053NBLFW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341953277&sr=8-1&keywords=ipad+stylus

Or, here:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/10/2925937/best-stylus-ipad-review

So nice your helping people who can't do searches online. I so love the "where is my" crowd. :rolleyes:

Skika
Jul 10, 2012, 04:07 PM
I'm still pretty sure that any 7" device Apple makes will be marketed as an iPod Touch.

iPod and iPhone apps, wifi only, focus on e-reading, gaming, music and movies.. I think they'll optimize the display, processor/graphics and battery to make the best possible use of that 7" for these tasks..

I don't see it being an iPad..

7" iPod Touch 8GB $249, 16GB $299, 32GB $399

I'll be glad to be wrong, but I don't think I am.

iPod is all about songs in your pocket. Well it became more than that with the introduction of the iPod touch. But regardless, an iPod will never be something you cannot put into your pocket.

xkmxkmxlmx
Jul 10, 2012, 04:08 PM
do you seriously think they had retina tech ready to go on the ipad 2 but they "held out" so youd have to upgrade the next year? look at all the beef about the rMBP for gods sake, everyone saying they released it before the tech was ready (ridiculous as well).

man, theyre damned either way

Did I say they had it ready for the iPad 2? It is no secret that each iteration has been small, but significant. Like no front facing cameras in the first, etc.

And sure, there is much needed R&D for any new tech, but they are pretty experienced with Retina tech at this point, especially with iDevices, that I don't see how making a screen that is smaller/larger than already existing Retina displays could be *that* hard.

cargath
Jul 10, 2012, 04:11 PM
I don't get why everyone is making excuses for Apple. There's demand for a 7'' budget tablet, they don't care if Jobs once said no one needs one. The extra .85''? I'd blame that on the aspect ratio. 4/3 and 7'' would feel pretty small.

If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

Yes and no. It will feature the same resolution as the iPad 2. Since the iPad Mini will have half the screen size of the original iPad, it will also have double the DPI, the same DPI as the iPad 3. According to Apple that's a retina display.

knucklehead
Jul 10, 2012, 04:13 PM
When the original iPad was released, I completely agreed with you. I wanted the mock up 9.7" display with bezel around the entire device the size of the bezel on the side of the iPhone.

It was not until I used the Kindle Touch that I realized why Apple has the bezel as it does: it is maddeningly difficult to hold the device with one hand with such little bezel on the sides. Perhaps you don't use the iPad for reading, to which I say I hope such a bezel-less iPad is released one day for you (it would be quite stunning, in my opinion)

Hi - I'm just curious what hand size you have -- as in glove size.

I have a Kindle Touch too, and don't have a bit of trouble holding it -- I actually consider the side bezels much wider than needed.
By the way, the Kindle device is just about exactly the same width as the 7.85 mini screen.

Stetrain
Jul 10, 2012, 04:13 PM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

Nope. 1024x768. They need to hit a low price target. Then, in a year or two, Retina will be the headline feature for an update.

Navdakilla
Jul 10, 2012, 04:19 PM
It's only a daydream, but I'd love an iBooks device... thing... that only had the iBooks App and the store to go with it. Instant on to the bookshelf, instant off.

That to me would be a good excuse for a mini-iReading device, and it would no doubt be cheaper too.

I still prefer the Kindle e-ink reading over the iPad screen. So much so I bought one for my book reading, and have the iPad for my magazine and everything else

a.gomez
Jul 10, 2012, 04:19 PM
better just to admit Steve Jobs was wrong to say 7 inch tablets were DOA and move on with it.

tann
Jul 10, 2012, 04:19 PM
People saying it's the relaunching of the iPod touch are a bit off IMO. The iPad would have a screen totally different ratio to the iPhone, 4:3 is very different to 3:2! (I believe that's what they are).

That's the reason why they wouldn't call a smaller iPad shaped device an iPod touch XL or w/e.

I predict it'll be $250 for 8gb.

Dornblaser
Jul 10, 2012, 04:29 PM
I am wondering whether it will be WiFi only or have LTE? GPS, probably not?

Digital Skunk
Jul 10, 2012, 04:29 PM
Similar comments were made about the iPad before it launched. Most people thought it would cost 1000$ or more. And a lot of people still expected it to fail even at 500$ once it launched.

I would agree, but seeing how the Nexus 7 is all but sold at cost I don't see Apple putting together a product with better materials, a larger screen, and more flare for the same or less.

Unless Apple is willing to sell at a loss, or they work out some ridiculous deals with manufacturers.

- Galaxy Note or similar phone with unbreakable screen (still fitting a standard shirt pocket).
- A4-sized iPad

That's what's needed.

Agreed! I said the same thing just before the latest iPod Touch was released. The iPod Touch and iPhone just beg for a larger screen.

mex4eric
Jul 10, 2012, 04:29 PM
I remember when people argued that no one wanted a tablet and it was a dumb idea and look how many they have sold. so my opinion on the smaller is no matter what people say they would sell a crapload of them and thats what matters. I know i would buy one for at least 4 family members that enjoy the simplicity of tablets compared to computers. on an ipad if they get confused or dont understand whats going on they can just press the home button and all is right with the world again. my parents are afraid of computers because they are always afraid they will screw them up or delete the wrong thing. not so with tablets. being able to just press the home button when they get lost is huge.

I agree with 90% of this. If Apple offers this it will sell more than the regular iPad, as it will be cheaper and easier to handle and use. I expect bezel to be same or proportional to the standard iPad.

Small quibble. Unfortunately many apps have memory so hitting the Home button only gets you out temporarily. If you re-enter the app you are usually back where you got into trouble. At least you can then use another app until a slightly more knowledgeable family member can help you out of the first problem.

laxic
Jul 10, 2012, 04:30 PM
Hi - I'm just curious what hand size you have -- as in glove size.

I have a Kindle Touch too, and don't have a bit of trouble holding it -- I actually consider the side bezels much wider than needed.
By the way, the Kindle device is just about exactly the same width as the 7.85 mini screen.

Is there a glove size that comes in "man?"
Honestly I don't know what it is, though I would say I have fairly large hands. Perhaps I'm just "holding it wrong."

striven
Jul 10, 2012, 04:45 PM
You can be sure the 7inch, if and when it comes out, will include retina. Apple ain't going to step backwards.:)

Lancer
Jul 10, 2012, 04:51 PM
It makes you wonder. A great deal of the 7" tablet appeal was for an extremely small, light, and portable e-reader. Will making the iPad Mini 40% larger than these 7" tablets actually take away from this appeal?

I think it will help, especially the 40% larger screen area. While 16x9 is great for movies and TV shows. 4x3 is much better in a portable device for just about every thing else.

I don't mind black bars when it comes to my iPhone.

And in the end it's only marginally wider than the 7" ones.

50548
Jul 10, 2012, 04:57 PM
Without Steve everything is possible...

Yes, everything INCLUDING failing miserably. I've said it before and I'm gonna say it again: a 7" iPad is as (ir)relevant as a 27" iPhone.

If this happens, it's clear proof that Cook, with his limited visionary skills, is about to start on the same fragmentation and pandering (to stupid advice) path that almost killed Apple some 16 years ago...short it while you can.

Arelunde
Jul 10, 2012, 05:05 PM
I'll buy this just to use in my car - gps etc. - cd slot mount
the iphone is TOO small
and the current pad to huge.

I agree with this totally. I'm REALLY looking forward to an iPad mini - whatever configuration they come up with. I love my iPad2, but it's bulky and not small/light enough to carry everywhere. It's also heavy enough to make it difficult to hold while reading for any length of time - it needs to be propped up.

The iPhone is way too small for most uses and especially web access. Now that I have an iPad, I hardly use any of the apps on the iPhone ... not enough real estate for intensive use as a super-mini computer. I'm thinking, if 4G enabled on a mini-iPad, VoIP might take over cell phones for communication.

Also, I agree with those who see the need for a bezel of some dimension so you can hold the device. IMO, this is why the iPhone allegedly isn't going much wider - it's a one-hand-held device - or supposed to be.

Have there been any rumors about WHEN this mini-iPad might show up?

dlewis23
Jul 10, 2012, 05:09 PM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

Apple would be smart to keep it 1024x768 because then developers have to do nothing to there apps for them to work on the new device.

But...

If they did choose to do retina they would have to do it at 2048x1536. Creating a 3rd resolution is just no good. And that many pixels in a 7" display. IDK...

RobertMartens
Jul 10, 2012, 05:12 PM
If they can offer a smaller iPad at $250 they'll retain their major lead in the tablet market for the foreseeable future.

...because until now Apple's Strategy has been flawed. But this will correct everything!

----------

I agree with this totally. I'm REALLY looking forward to an iPad mini - whatever configuration they come up with. I love my iPad2, but it's bulky and not small/light enough to carry everywhere. It's also heavy enough to make it difficult to hold while reading for any length of time - it needs to be propped up.


You know they released the iPad 3?

Litany
Jul 10, 2012, 05:12 PM
It isn't a a 7-Inch Tablet, its a 7-Inch iPod Touch.

knucklehead
Jul 10, 2012, 05:18 PM
Is there a glove size that comes in "man?"
Honestly I don't know what it is, though I would say I have fairly large hands. Perhaps I'm just "holding it wrong."

Thanks.
Yeah - Everybody's got their own preferred way of doing things:)

divinox
Jul 10, 2012, 05:22 PM
Apple would be smart to keep it 1024x768 because then developers have to do nothing to there apps for them to work on the new device.

But...

If they did choose to do retina they would have to do it at 2048x1536. Creating a 3rd resolution is just no good. And that many pixels in a 7" display. IDK...

Well, Apple might have to break out of their little box sooner or later anyway, creating a model less dependent on exact ratios and resolutions. Personally, i would prefer if Apple went 16:9. Well, 16:10 would perhaps be even better, at least for computing purposes, but that i see as less likely. Well, that or going well below 7" to truly make the device portable: a 7.85" 4:3 with a wide bezel is quite the monster still. Really can't see that being the sweet spot to hit, and i think they would be stupid going for it only to "scale down the iPad".

Heck, not being able to scale down could be easily be turned into benefits: e.g., iPad apps would remain just iPad apps. This makes for less cannibalization as the larger of the two would have something the smaller does not. Plus, dont think scaling down will be that great in terms of UX anyway.

If iPhone 5 goes 16:9, they dont have to worry about having apps either.

MattInOz
Jul 10, 2012, 05:24 PM
I hate Apple's bezels with a fervent passion.

They even goes as far as showing the iPad being held in worst way to justify it.:mad:

divinox
Jul 10, 2012, 05:25 PM
I think it will help, especially the 40% larger screen area. While 16x9 is great for movies and TV shows. 4x3 is much better in a portable device for just about every thing else.

I don't mind black bars when it comes to my iPhone.

And in the end it's only marginally wider than the 7" ones.

...except portability. and that "marginal increase in width" may indeed be the deal killer. Things sticking out of a pocket is less of an issue than things not going into it at all.

PinkyMacGodess
Jul 10, 2012, 05:32 PM
I'm betting it's an iPod Touch upgrade rather than an iPad downgrade...

fertilized-egg
Jul 10, 2012, 05:43 PM
It isn't a a 7-Inch Tablet, its a 7-Inch iPod Touch.

It's an 8-Inch iPad.

ObjectiveV
Jul 10, 2012, 05:43 PM
I don't believe this...damn apple...where is innovation? stop with small increment and start using your vision.

EDIT: Apparently, some loser got offended because I was telling the truth. Truth hurts, little boy.

I'd like to think the downvotes are for non-constructive criticism. (I may be overestimating people though)

fertilized-egg
Jul 10, 2012, 05:45 PM
I would agree, but seeing how the Nexus 7 is all but sold at cost I don't see Apple putting together a product with better materials, a larger screen, and more flare for the same or less.

Unless Apple is willing to sell at a loss, or they work out some ridiculous deals with manufacturers.

If there's anybody who can make a cheap tablet in aluminium, it's Apple because they have so much experience and manufacturing investment done already.

I'm sure Asus is making some money out of Nexus 7. It's just that Google is not charging any profit on top. If Asus can make that for $200, I don't see why Apple cannot make a $250 tablet.

SpyderBite
Jul 10, 2012, 05:47 PM
if gruber is saying its possible than its most likely coming. he doesn't usually speak up unless he knows for sure its coming.

I didn't realize Gruber worked for Apple in Cupertino and was not bound to a NDA like the rest of the company.

scottsjack
Jul 10, 2012, 05:47 PM
Does any thinking person really care if the new iPad is really a 7 inch tablet or not? It's really a little yet powerful toy computer that can perform a surprising amount of fun or work. Just like the iPad and iPhone.

Mr. Milk
Jul 10, 2012, 05:54 PM
I think the article is pretty reasonable. There are also some rumors that the iPad Mini would be produced in Brazil, which makes even more sense to me.

Foxconn was supposed to have a huge tax advantage from Brazilian government to build a plant over here. I have also heard that the government would cut taxes so much that tablets would be the most popular gadget over here (especially in schools). So far, nothing has been officially announced, although they are already making Brazilian iPhones (see below).

Brazil has one of the higher tax rates in the world. For you to have an idea: our currency, Real (R$) equals to US$ 2.00. Now look at the Apple local prices:

MacBook Air 11" R$ 3.700,00 = US$ 1,850.00 (85% higher than USA)
MacBook Air 13" R$ 5.000,00 = US$ 2,500.00 (108% higher than USA)
The New iPad 16Gb Wifi Only R$ 1.550,00 = US$ 775.00 (93% higher than USA)
iPhone 4S 16Gb R$ 2.000,00 = US$ 1,000.00 (54% higher) *
iPhone 4 8Gb R$ 1.500,00 = US$ 750.00 (N/A) *
iPhone 3GS 8Gb R$ 1.000,00 = US$ 500.00 (N/A) *

* Brazilian law forces phone companies to unlock any phone, whether you have a contract or not. That's why those prices are lower if compared to the unlocked phones in the US.

Notice that there is a "iPhone 4 8Gb" manufactured in Brazil. I'm not aware of any other market with this product. So, that must have happened in order to cut the price (and it is selling a lot).

There are many cheap tablets in Brazil. Samsung Galaxy Tab 7" (which is not at all the cheapest) is R$ 1.000,00 = US$ 500,00 (so, iPad is 55% more expensive). Now most people want a tablet. They don't have a clue of which one (Bezel, what is that? Retina? What a tablet has to do with my eyeball?). But they do look carefully at the prices.

So, I do think they may come up with a slighter simpler product (no retina, for example) and with taxes cut have something like a US$ 150.00/200.00 product. If Brazilian government further cut taxes for end-users that would definitely turn it into a very attractive deal. Maybe Apple's plan is just trying a "light" product in emerging markets first (like with the iPhone 4 8Gb).

Mr. Milk

qwerter
Jul 10, 2012, 06:01 PM
And iOS WAS intended for devices larger than phones!? :eek: I feel like I am missing a crucial piece of information here.

My understanding is that the touch interface they're using was originally designed for tablets, then they decided to use it on a phone.

MattInOz
Jul 10, 2012, 06:19 PM
My understanding is that the touch interface they're using was originally designed for tablets, then they decided to use it on a phone.

Didn't iOS started life as a Skunkworks project within the webkit team called safari pad. Although it seems some of the team got pissed off when SJ found it and retasked it to make the iPhone. Moving to Palm, so PalmOS maybe be closer to the original intention of Safari Pad than the iPad ended up as.

Mr. Gates
Jul 10, 2012, 06:25 PM
Can't wait to see some dude at a coffee shop with his Macbook, iPod touch, iPhone, iPad and now an additional iPad mini all sprawled out pretending to be doing something. :rolleyes:

Please god, make him spill his coffee so I can watch him run to get napkins then trip on his charger and knock everything on to the ground so I can sit there and enjoy the show.

Anyhoo....

8 inch iPad for traveling would be nice.

If battery life is the same I'll pick one up for Mother. She's always exploring the world.

Datalinks
Jul 10, 2012, 06:26 PM
4/3 is ideal for displaying all types of content...we are not watching widescreen movies all the time. i wish they would keep the same proportions on iphone 5 ...it would allow for a larger keyboard too.

flipnap
Jul 10, 2012, 06:28 PM
Can't wait to see some dude at a coffee shop with his Macbook, iPod touch, iPhone, iPad and now an additional iPad mini all sprawled out pretending to be doing something. :rolleyes:


would you be recording it with your transformer while talking to your friends on your galaxy s3, and closing your kindle so you can pick up your asus netbook to leave in disgust?

lemikam
Jul 10, 2012, 06:30 PM
I'm sure I'm not the first one to say or think this, but is there any chance that all of these mockups and screens and parts are actually for the remote to the Apple TV set? Or is that nuts?

Mr. Gates
Jul 10, 2012, 06:32 PM
would you be recording it with your transformer while talking to your friends on your galaxy s3, and closing your kindle so you can pick up your asus netbook to leave in disgust?

I'll be watching with my eyeballs while sipping my coffee and reading a newspaper.

I have none of those things.

deconstruct60
Jul 10, 2012, 06:37 PM
Finally, in addressing pricing on the rumored iPad mini Gruber suggests that Apple could approach the $199 pricing seen on the Kindle Fire and Nexus 7 by leveraging its massive supply chain and economies of scale to bring its own costs down to the neighborhood of $150 and still maintain profitability. But even pricing of $249 could be competitive depending on hardware features and factoring in the benefits of Apple's extensive iOS/iTunes/App Store ecosystem for customers.


Sometimes Gruber drinks so much Cupertino Kool-aid that he goes irrational. This is one of those.
Apple will have some scale discounts but they aren't building the same device. If all were building 7" tablets that might be a differentiator, but they aren't.


After building this argument that the iPad mini is much bigger (i.e., bigger screen , bigger case ) than the 7" tablets he then invents a hole in which Apple can buy much bigger components at cheaper prices. That's right the bigger LCD panel (40% bigger), bigger glass (more Gorilla glass) , coupled to the likely bigger battery ( to power such screen ) Sure the resolution is lower, 163 mini ppi vs. 216 ppi of the Nexus 7, but that would only compensate for making them more even. Not a 22% reduction in cost due to scale. I doubt Apple scale gets them 22-25% discounts lower than what Amazon/Google's builders are getting on contract. It is likely smaller than that.


It seems far more likely that Apple will charge a price like $299 (keeps with their standard _99 pricing for all iPads without cellular radios. ) and justify being higher priced than the 7" tablets for exactly the reasons outlined. "It is really an much bigger 8" tablet" so you should pay more. Bigger screen... pay more.. MBA 13 costs more than MBA 11. MBP 15 costs more than MBP 13". iPad costs more than iPod Touch. It isn't like they haven't structured this argument in part before.


If the component costs for the iPad mini are $210 then a $299 price point would give Apple 30% margins. Very much in line with what they get now. The $100 increments for 8 or 16GB Flash increase in the "better" iPad mini will only fatten they cash horde even more with even larger margins. Similarly if there are Cellular radio options versions. There is so much markup in those "add ons" that even $230 in component costs on the entry model (23%) would fatten Apple's coffers.

Remember also that Apple most likely will include more components than the Nexus 7 or Fire. Two cameras ( iPod Touch , iPhone, and iPad have two cameras )... .the mini is going to have none or just an extremely weak VGA front facing one? Probably not. Probably a better speaker than those two. Probably Bluetooth 4 ( Nexus 7 has but fire doesn't). Apple is likely going to machine tool the case out of aluminum... don't think Fire/Nexus are spending as much on case components.


My guess is that the iPad2 would either disappear when the mini appears or will disappear when iPad 2013 appears. In the latter, case there would be a period where iPad 2 and mini's overlapped in price. In short, selling "last year's iPad" was just a stop-gap measure until they get the "mini" version online to hit the lower price point with a device with lower costs because it is smaller, not because it is older.

iPad mini $299 $399 $499
iPad 2013 $499 $599 ......

fits Apple's historic pricing patterns.

A $299 price point would still be pretty aggressive. The Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 is $249 at amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-7-Inch-Wi-Fi/dp/B007P4VOWC

They can use the "bigger" argument for the extra $50 in cost.


P.S. The $299 helps them save iPod Touch pricing too.

If they went to just two Touch price points.

$199 (16GB) $299 (32GB)

then the 32GB iPod Touch could more easily overlap with the $299 (16GB) iPad mini. The difference is storage; which Apple uses in iPad differentiation now. ($399 touch and $399 iPad 2)

Right now the $199 8GB Touch is crippled too much. Same price can get a Nexus 7. At least with 16GB it has a storage advantage to offset the screen size deficit.

ixodes
Jul 10, 2012, 07:01 PM
You can be sure the 7inch, if and when it comes out, will include retina. Apple ain't going to step backwards.:)

No chance of a retina. Besides it's not going backwards just because Apple chooses to use another resolution. There's going to be a lot of demand. About the only drawback for people on a budget, is there will probably be a $100 premium on the price.

The Nexus 7 selling for $199
The iPad 7 selling for $299

Most people will gladly pay the premium, it's what Apple has proven time after time. They can charge the highest prices and still sell them by the boat load. Steve Jobs greatest skill was as a brilliant salesman.

TheAnimal
Jul 10, 2012, 07:04 PM
Perhaps the new device is not a smaller iPad, but a BIGGER iPhone! :eek:

Les Kern
Jul 10, 2012, 07:08 PM
150 and still be popular
249 still good because of Apple ecosystem
So that means they
start at 299.00

MattInOz
Jul 10, 2012, 07:24 PM
Perhaps the new device is not a smaller iPad, but a BIGGER iPhone! :eek:

Maybe it's both and neither at the same time.

deconstruct60
Jul 10, 2012, 07:30 PM
I didn't realize Gruber worked for Apple in Cupertino and was not bound to a NDA like the rest of the company.

Gruber is one of their unofficial leak sources when they want put some control on the spin in the rumor market. Whether he is overtly used by them or is very cautious to get multiple sources It certainly increases the likely that they will use him as he commonly labels almost every Apple competitor as bozos.

He is usually pretty careful to use data/rumors/etc that is already out there and then construct a narrative around that as opposed to "someone at Apple told me that this is the exact answer". This whole thing is dependent upon whether 7.85" is what Apple is using or not. The only thing he needs confirmation out of Apple sources is weather that is the targeted size or not. Or even a "is this way off track? yes or no"


If increasing the iPhone screen height (and leaving width constant) works for new iPhone larger diagonal screen, then doubling the size from 3.5" to 7" would likely work too with some relatively minor layout issues (button target sizes not being one of them if approximately size buttons work on the 7.85" screen.) . But it would either be 7" or 7.85".

The part I don't buy is that users will hold a 7.85 tablet substantially closer to their eyes then a 10" iPad.... unless the difference is between holding (because no light enough for extended periods) and not holding ( iPad propped on lap/desk/etc ).

kingsmuse
Jul 10, 2012, 07:31 PM
First of all Jobs comment about a 7" tablet being too small to be usable was asinine to begin with considering he`s the man who produced the 3.5" iPhone/iPod touchscreen.

Second of all this article is assuming the aspect ration of a mini iPad will be 4:3 instead of 16:9 for no discernible reason at all.

iMacFarlane
Jul 10, 2012, 07:52 PM
At the time of when steve said it there was no 7 inch tab that was very good. Im sure they have had a ton of different sizes in the lab. Only time will tell. It will replace the ipod touch.

It WON'T replace the iPod Touch. It doesn't fit in your pocket . . .

Renzatic
Jul 10, 2012, 08:08 PM
Here...

Yeah, I know. I'm seriously considering picking up an Applydea Maglus to use.

...but it's just not the same without pressure sensitivity. The iPad would be the perfect device for drawing and PS work, yet it's lacking that one feature it most needs to fulfil that role.

Plus it'd be nice to use a thin tip stylus rather than the nubs.

faroZ06
Jul 10, 2012, 08:10 PM
Well yeah, 7.85 inches doesn't even round to 7 inches.

archurban
Jul 10, 2012, 08:10 PM
I have no doubt that new ipad is the best tablet in the market. but present ipad is too big & heavy. I found that 7 inch or little big one seems to be perfect to hold on my hands for a long time (from my experience with amazon kindle fire) that's why I didn't buy ipad yet. if Apple will release ipad mini (whatever they call), I will consider to buy. most of all, price is matter. I think $249 is reasonable.

sineplex
Jul 10, 2012, 08:11 PM
First of all Jobs comment about a 7" tablet being too small to be usable was asinine to begin with considering he`s the man who produced the 3.5" iPhone/iPod touchscreen.

Second of all this article is assuming the aspect ration of a mini iPad will be 4:3 instead of 16:9 for no discernible reason at all.

Steve always denied what he was making next. It's called having a competitive advantage. You never tell your compeditors what you're doing next.

deconstruct60
Jul 10, 2012, 08:11 PM
Second of all this article is assuming the aspect ration of a mini iPad will be 4:3 instead of 16:9 for no discernible reason at all.

The underlying reason is to run unmodified iPad targeted apps on a smaller screen just shrunken in size. The rational is that the 100's of thousands of iPad apps will "just work" on the smaller iPad. It kind of ignores that the content will be smaller (e.g., text) but the what is being targeted is the apps.

If just apply the classic iPad DPI 132 and classic iPhone DPI 163 then get the 132/163 => 81% iPad screen 9.7 . 81% of 9.7 ==> 7.85" . So the inference is that Apple will just shrink iPad apps and present them on the screen running them 'as is" just smaller. Sort of how the MBA 11" screen is now... smaller fonts/text/icons because slightly cranked up pixel density increase.


If you change the aspect ratio the iPad apps won't fit on the screen. The iPhone apps really wouldn't fit either without tacking on big borders for the new expanded space (similar to the compatible mode the initial iPad ran iPhone apps in at first ). If just try to stretch the 16:9 content then will have adverse side effects.

faroZ06
Jul 10, 2012, 08:14 PM
It will replace the ipod touch.

I don't think a non-pocketable iPad, basically a large iPod touch, will replace the regular iPod touch. It's too far away in size and usage.

----------

It WON'T replace the iPod Touch. It doesn't fit in your pocket . . .

^^^

----------

I'll buy this just to use in my car - gps etc. - cd slot mount
the iphone is TOO small
and the current pad to huge.

You're right. It would be nice if car-makers could put a miniature iPad in the car with special software in place of the jukebox, GPS, clock, stats, and other stuff.

AppleScruff1
Jul 10, 2012, 08:14 PM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

I'll take that bet.

Maybe he's broke? :D


Maybe this will be the iPad S. S for small.

faroZ06
Jul 10, 2012, 08:17 PM
Steve Jobs would have not approved it.

What makes you think that?

----------

So where's my stylus? I wanna draw and write on my tablet, ****it. Not exist in some ethereal Zone of Self Defined Innovation where the finger is king, because by God we said so.

Can't you just buy a stylus, a.k.a. a stick, and use it with your drawing apps?

Renzatic
Jul 10, 2012, 08:20 PM
I think $249 is reasonable.

$249 is reasonable, but I'm expecting it'll be more around the $299-$350 range. It's still priced low enough to be appealing to people who want the cheaper option, but still high enough that Apple can maintain their profit margins.

----------

Can't you just buy a stylus, a.k.a. a stick, and use it with your drawing apps?

Yeah, and I probably will here soon. But pressure sensitivity is a nice thing to have, and I lament it's absence on the iPad.

As is, a quick light stroke across the screen will net you the same results as pressing down with the stylus and dragging it across slowly. With a digitizer, a light stroke will give me a thin, light line, pressing down a thicker, heavier one. It feels a lot more natural and realistic.

deconstruct60
Jul 10, 2012, 08:22 PM
It WON'T replace the iPod Touch. It doesn't fit in your pocket . . .

It may not replace but it is likely to substantially cannibalize iPod Touch sales unless Apple substantially shifts the iPod Touch value proposition ( lower price or dramatically increase storage or substantially better cameras or ... )

And the whole "doesn't fit in the pocket" argument didn't work so well when it was commonly used against the iPad before it was introduced. "Nobody is going to buy an iPad... not portable enough... it doesn't fit in your pocket".

A less expensive iPad people will buy. When the Touch was the only option there going to be more buyers. When their are options, the number will drop.

Digital Skunk
Jul 10, 2012, 08:23 PM
If there's anybody who can make a cheap tablet in aluminium, it's Apple because they have so much experience and manufacturing investment done already.

I'm sure Asus is making some money out of Nexus 7. It's just that Google is not charging any profit on top. If Asus can make that for $200, I don't see why Apple cannot make a $250 tablet.

Moot, the original comment was Apple being able to make a 7" tablet for at or under $200.

For $250, sure . . . . maybe . . . we'll see. But for $200 or less? Not a chance.

As for $150 hahahahahahahahahahaha yeeeaaahhhh rrriiiggghhhhtttt!

it won't. means it keeps costs down + higher profit margin, and gives them an easy feature to use for upgrading in the next 1-2 years.

AppleScruff1
Jul 10, 2012, 08:26 PM
$249 is reasonable, but I'm expecting it'll be more around the $299-$350 range. It's still priced low enough to be appealing to people who want the cheaper option, but still high enough that Apple can maintain their profit margins.[COLOR="#808080"]



I'm hoping it's in the $350 range. What's most important is that Apple keeps making record profits. I'm confident that most here will agree. :D:D

zzLZHzz
Jul 10, 2012, 08:28 PM
Without Steve everything is possible...

don't you know what even steve is famous for trashing a idea this moment and supporting it the next moment?

CrAkD
Jul 10, 2012, 08:32 PM
I didn't realize Gruber worked for Apple in Cupertino and was not bound to a NDA like the rest of the company.

for the most part most journalists look to him to confirm things. 95% of the time he doesn't comment unless he's sure. sometimes he gives an opinion tho.

griz
Jul 10, 2012, 08:34 PM
This will be a tablet marketed to the education sector.
$199 will get them a 16GB Wifi iPad. Perfect to iBooks Author generated textbooks. $399 each is way too steep for a school to supply all their classrooms. But for $199 each, a school can afford to put one in the hands of each student, or very close to it. K-12 is a market of people with hands that are smaller, just like the iPad Mini will be compared to the original.
What Apple does not want is for Amazon to push into education with a $199 tablet. They need something to compete in that space and they will put something there.
I also believe it will be a possibility for this device to be delivered as the remote for the Apple Television which we will see before the holidays. Custom big button interface will solve any small screen issues with that.

Westside guy
Jul 10, 2012, 08:34 PM
Steve Jobs was not Margaret Thatcher.

Did you ever see the two of them together in the same place at the same time, hmm, Mr. Know-It-All?

jake0112
Jul 10, 2012, 08:35 PM
This, totally agree, when you look at the Fire and Nexus 7, they are great for holding one handed, that mock up would never allow you to comfortably do that.



I'm sure their were, but $150 for an Apple iPad? Don't think so, unless Apple wishes to damage sales for ALL it's iPod's?

Just look here:

http://store.apple.com/us

iPod Touch from $199
iPod Nano from $129
iPod Classic from $249

So what do you think would happen to the sales of those devices if Apple launched a $150 or $200 or even $250 iPad? Apple is many things, but it isn't stupid.

I was thinking exactly that.

Renzatic
Jul 10, 2012, 08:36 PM
I'm hoping it's in the $350 range. What's most important is that Apple keeps making record profits. I'm confident that most here will agree. :D:D

I'm hoping for $1000, cuz it keeps those scummy looking Android kids on their side of the train tracks. :mad:

MacinDoc
Jul 10, 2012, 08:36 PM
$249 is reasonable, but I'm expecting it'll be more around the $299-$350 range. It's still priced low enough to be appealing to people who want the cheaper option, but still high enough that Apple can maintain their profit margins.

----------



Yeah, and I probably will here soon. But pressure sensitivity is a nice thing to have, and I lament it's absence on the iPad.

As is, a quick light stroke across the screen will net you the same results as pressing down with the stylus and dragging it across slowly. With a digitizer, a light stroke will give me a thin, light line, pressing down a thicker, heavier one. It feels a lot more natural and realistic.
Probably $299. I can't see $350, at least for the base model, because it's too close to the price of the iPad 2, which has a larger screen and will have otherwise similar specs. I'd love to see $249, but that would cannibalize the sales of the larger, more expensive models too much (for Apple to maximize profit, it would have to make the same net profit per device, regardless of its size, which means that the margin would be larger on a percentage basis for the smaller device).

AppleScruff1
Jul 10, 2012, 08:39 PM
I'm hoping for $1000, cuz it keeps those scummy looking Android kids on their side of the train tracks. :mad:

Good point. How much of an elitist could one be if it only cost $199? It's bad enough that they sell iPhones at 7-11. :D

Renzatic
Jul 10, 2012, 08:48 PM
Probably $299. I can't see $350, at least for the base model, because it's too close to the price of the iPad 2, which has a larger screen and will have otherwise similar specs.

I'm thinking the cheaper iPad 2 is just an interim move by Apple for people who don't want to pay full price for the current gen iPad, and will eventually be supplanted by the mini. The 2 is only only shelves as the frugal option because Apple doesn't have a less expensive product to offer in its place.

It fits more in line with their current pricing scheme with their other products. Like you can't get a brand new last-gen iMac as the cheaper option. The Mac Mini fills that role.

Good point. How much of an elitist could one be if it only cost $199? It's bad enough that they sell iPhones at 7-11. :D

Ha! Do they now? How jejune! I'll have to request my butler pick me up one of these low brow iPhones at our local convenience market (located 15 miles outside our gated community, thank heavens). It's always fun pretending to live like the little people. :D

YGAB
Jul 10, 2012, 08:57 PM
maybe it's the next iPhone that can be spread out into a flexible 7 inch screen... or folded back into a phone... take that Galaxy SIII

MacAddict1978
Jul 10, 2012, 09:02 PM
It's only a daydream, but I'd love an iBooks device... thing... that only had the iBooks App and the store to go with it. Instant on to the bookshelf, instant off.

That to me would be a good excuse for a mini-iReading device, and it would no doubt be cheaper too.

Hmm... might I suggest an e-ink kindle? $79. Portable. Easier to read on. 100 times the book selection and far cheaper prices, especially know with the iBooks scandal, and Amazon's offers, promos, coupons, discounts, and sales. iBooks is great as part of Apple's echo system... but stand alone, it's an awful outlet for ebooks imo.

Between that iPad mock up and the Nexus 7, I'll take the Nexus 7 shape ANYDAY! That mock up is far too fat to be useful as a smaller tablet, you may as well not bother and just get the normal iPad.
As for $150 hahahahahahahahahahaha yeeeaaahhhh rrriiiggghhhhtttt!

As I have said multiple times I don't believe it will be $200, Apple will need to drop the entire iPod Touch range to launch an iPad with a $200 price tag.

I think we have far too many people jumping on the 7" iPad band wagon now and you just don't know what to believe as being possible.

What I, and from comments I read many other people, dislike about 7" tablets is the size and form factor. They're not good two handed devices, and they become cumbersome after a short while with one hand use. That extra width might be the sweet spot. A tablet isn't a phone after all. And a 7" display just misses that sweet spot for the eyes. That .85 inches on each diagonal is a lot more screen space than it sounds.

The iPod touch still has a very valid place. No one wants to use a tablet as an mp3 player... and lots of kids/teens who that product is geared towards don't have smart phones. But this is why I don't ever see an iPad mini at $199, because they'll need to keep it spaced out from the iPod line. I can see $249 though.

It makes you wonder. A great deal of the 7" tablet appeal was for an extremely small, light, and portable e-reader. Will making the iPad Mini 40% larger than these 7" tablets actually take away from this appeal?

Hmm... interesting thought but I disagree. The 7" tablet NEVER took off. 5" and 6" e-ink readers sold more units over all. The Kindle Fire was the first 7" to actually sell... and the models prior (like the first Galaxy Tab were mostly unloaded in Fire sales or free with contract deals).

Not disagreeing with your logic, but mainly the appeal factor, because even still there isn't much of one. 7" for a tablet vs. a dedicated ereader is still a bit too small for most people. The Kindle Fire @$199 made it easier to sacrifice. The rumored extra space for an iPad Mini might just be that bit of a difference that makes people want it. that, and anything Apple puts their name on seems to sell like hot cakes.

dbrewster
Jul 10, 2012, 09:06 PM
I prefer a smaller iPad. I don't need the extra screen real estate, considering I'm somewhat content with my 4S' 3.5" screen.

MacAddict1978
Jul 10, 2012, 09:09 PM
This, totally agree, when you look at the Fire and Nexus 7, they are great for holding one handed, that mock up would never allow you to comfortably do that.



I'm sure their were, but $150 for an Apple iPad? Don't think so, unless Apple wishes to damage sales for ALL it's iPod's?

Just look here:

http://store.apple.com/us

iPod Touch from $199
iPod Nano from $129
iPod Classic from $249

So what do you think would happen to the sales of those devices if Apple launched a $150 or $200 or even $250 iPad? Apple is many things, but it isn't stupid.

Well, considering the iPad mini would arrive most likely with the iPod refresh (which was non-existent last year) I would expect a big change in that line up and pricing. Last year the classic was rumored to be EOL and go no updates, and if it survives this year, I bet it will get a much needed and long over due price cut.

I bet the classic iPod goes to 199, 189, or killed. And no refresh again, because there is not reason too. Last year it should ahve had a huge price drop. It's probably not even $50 in parts in that thing by now, and no R&D into that need to be recouped either.

alienapp
Jul 10, 2012, 10:11 PM
I believe that there won't be a Ipad Mini.

Rather than that, i believe that this will be a complete redesign of the ipad. The most significant of these changes would be the removal of the bezel around the ipad or at least a huge amount of it.

I came to this conclusions based on 2 things :
1) The 9.7" Ipad screen is the same size as an entire 7.8" Ipad if the bezel were removed.

2) Its really hard to hold an ipad using the bezel with one hand due to the weight reducing its usefulness. Its easier to hold it like a book (ie your arm behind the device)


Doing so apple will be able to keep the retina display, reduce the size and weight and prevent the need for developers to adept to devices with difference screen resolutions and or measurements.

jwdsail
Jul 10, 2012, 10:55 PM
iPod is all about songs in your pocket. Well it became more than that with the introduction of the iPod touch. But regardless, an iPod will never be something you cannot put into your pocket.

But the whole.. um.. "logic"... of adding a 7" device is *supposedly* that it's exactly that, a pocket tablet..

And let's not overlook that the best selling iPods are famously being used more on aftermarket wrist-watch bands than in people's pockets.. so much so, that Apple added additional watch faces to the most recent update of it.

The iPod hasn't been so much about "the pocket" as "media consumption" for a while now.. If Apple decides that a 7" device would sell well to that market, why wouldn't they market it as an iPod, rather than an iPad?

koobcamuk
Jul 11, 2012, 12:17 AM
I hate Apple's bezels with a fervent passion.

Agree - the bezel on the MBA makes it look cheaper than it should. The screen could be another inch larger...

JoeG4
Jul 11, 2012, 12:25 AM
I think it also might be likely that the reason the 7" fire took off was because $199 is a lot easier to justify than $500 for a tablet; It was the first "legit" $199 tablet that you could get for less than that if you shopped around, one with a polished build of Android and decent build quality.

The subsidized 3G tablets were a disaster because of how complicated getting service for them got - in some cases you could add them to your account, in most the monthly fee was outrageous (between $30 and $50), and then there were contracts.

I don't know what else to say, just putting that out there because I thought it was interesting. Personally I think with a smaller iPad, the iPod Touch's days are numbered. Granted, the iPod Touch is simply an iPhone and the R&D costs are almost entirely absorbed by the iPhone's R&D because of that, there isn't really a financial reason to discontinue the iPod Touch if they still manage to make money on it. :)

I think with a smaller iPad, there's a better argument for them to continue making an iPod with physical controls, than there is an iPod Touch. From my argument above however, that probably isn't true financially lol.

Michael CM1
Jul 11, 2012, 01:30 AM
If Apple do release this iPad mini, I would bet all the money I have that it WILL be retina.

I'm in on it not being a Retina display. Why? Because Apple is not going to fragment its iOS market any more. That means it's going to run either the 1024x768 or 2048x1536 resolution. Considering the technical feat it was to get the third-gen iPad to run the 2048x1536 resolution, I can't imagine a smaller device is going to be ready to run that so soon. Don't forget that a powerful battery is in the new iPad and takes forever to charge unless you use a wall outlet. I don't think the mobile horsepower is there for such a device at about 8 inches.

Considering where the competition is, 1024x768 will be just fine for a product that size. That resolution isn't really bad on a 9.7" iPad. You're just spoiled with the Retina display on other devices. I know I was.

If this thing comes out at $249, it will sell like crazy. If somehow it is $199, game freakin' over. The only reason I thought the Fire was a decent product was the price for what you got. It's an improved Kindle. But it's sure as heck no iPad. No Android-based tablet can compare an app library to what Apple has, so it would totally ruin the market for cheaper tablets.

Lancer
Jul 11, 2012, 02:03 AM
What ever happens we know it will sell like hot iPads!

MattInOz
Jul 11, 2012, 02:17 AM
don't you know what even steve is famous for trashing a idea this moment and supporting it the next moment?

I can't think of a well known Designer/Architect on the planet who isn't.

sinser
Jul 11, 2012, 02:50 AM
Not interested in the mini, but, if true, I like the display size and ratio and the bezel width of the drawings.

haravikk
Jul 11, 2012, 03:29 AM
I realized why Apple has the bezel as it does: it is maddeningly difficult to hold the device with one hand with such little bezel on the sides.
With some trademark innovation software could potentially solve the problem; for example, by making the device with no (or little) bezel a bit wider than necessary, they could have it display a 'dead space' where the user is gripping the tablet, i.e - a black bar, and then just slide the viewport across in order to move the dead space to the other side for holding the device with the other hand. Just needs some good detection algorithm for when a user is gripping the screen rather than interacting with it.

kodeman53
Jul 11, 2012, 03:38 AM
First of all Jobs comment about a 7" tablet being too small to be usable was asinine to begin with considering he`s the man who produced the 3.5" iPhone/iPod touchscreen.
CLUE: A phone is not a tablet. :rolleyes:

DudeDad
Jul 11, 2012, 05:48 AM
The iPod Touch XL....I mean the iPad Mini will appeal to women (according to my wife) because it's small enough to throw in a purse, but large enough to make it useful (obviously, she is posturing for one). I hope that they offer an LTE version....

barny
Jul 11, 2012, 06:20 AM
So basically what you've done there, Macrumors, is state the obvious. The rumoured 7.85" isn't a 7" tablet for the obvious reason that it has a 7.85" screen, pointless article :L

forgotmyhandle
Jul 11, 2012, 06:26 AM
Apple making a 7" (or 7.85") device would not be leading, but following competitors. I don't think competing devices are taking away from iPad because their compelling feature is size, but instead price. Apple does not always compete on price but instead on superior products that they think they do better than anyone else.

Zaqfalcon
Jul 11, 2012, 06:58 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to just admit that Jobs was wrong? I'm sure he wouldn't have minded, he was only human... Wasn't he?

flipnap
Jul 11, 2012, 07:01 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to just admit that Jobs was wrong? I'm sure he wouldn't have minded, he was only human... Wasn't he?

except he wasnt. is the ipad an iphone? not really. technically maybe. an ipad smaller than the one now isnt an ipad. maybe steve was making a point instead of trying to be right or wrong. the ipad is the right size, period. steve knew it and i know it.

newdeal
Jul 11, 2012, 07:11 AM
as to the people saying you can't hold this in one hand, I can hold a full size iPad in one hand this should be no problem. Also yes the iPod touch starts at $199 but does that mean this couldn't be $199 as well? No it does not simply because the iPod touch hasn't been updated for 2 years meaning that they could drastically cut the cost on it due to the parts being far cheaper now. I am guessing they do $149 for the touch and $249 for this new iPad and $199 for a touch with a bigger screen (like the new iPhone) and upgraded internals

payers
Jul 11, 2012, 07:50 AM
That would be a pretty weak device. iBook as an app is good -for storing reading documents, PDFs, even books if they had a good selection which they dont. I find the Store to be pretty lame. Both Google and Amazon.com beat Apple on books! Why would it be cheaper?? The opposite is more likely.

It's only a daydream, but I'd love an iBooks device... thing... that only had the iBooks App and the store to go with it. Instant on to the bookshelf, instant off.

That to me would be a good excuse for a mini-iReading device, and it would no doubt be cheaper too.

MareLuce
Jul 11, 2012, 08:25 AM
maybe steve was making a point instead of trying to be right or wrong. the ipad is the right size, period. steve knew it and i know it.The only reason why the amazing Steve Jobs did not realize that a "Mini" would the perfect size to be my constant companion:

Steve did not carry a purse everywhere like I do.

Any iPad takes up too much space and adds too much weight to any of my purses.

A Mini would give me more usable screen space when I'm out and about than my iPhone, and I wouldn't have to worry about my iPhone battery drain as much.

If I only carried a wallet, maybe I wouldn't 'get it' either.

flipnap
Jul 11, 2012, 08:42 AM
The only reason why the amazing Steve Jobs did not realize that a "Mini" would the perfect size to be my constant companion:

Steve did not carry a purse everywhere like I do.

Any iPad takes up too much space and adds too much weight to any of my purses.

A Mini would give me more usable screen space when I'm out and about than my iPhone, and I wouldn't have to worry about my iPhone battery drain as much.

If I only carried a wallet, maybe I wouldn't 'get it' either.

the purpose and joy of using an ipad is the size of the screen. the product was never meant to be smaller or bigger. a car with two wheels is called a motorcycle, not a minicar. why you are comparing your need for a smaller device is a moot point. the ipad wasnt meant to be stuffed in your pocket or jammed in your purse.

deconstruct60
Jul 11, 2012, 09:14 AM
.... I am guessing they do $149 for the touch and $249 for this new iPad and $199 for a touch with a bigger screen (like the new iPhone) and upgraded internals

Two iPod Touch products and an iPad mini? Very unlikely. Growing the Touch screen along with the iPhone screen ( if that is the direction Apple goes with the iPhone) likely means the Touch won't see a price decrease since the screen component cost is going to go up.

Part of this whole scaling the iPad logical metrics down ~20% is to offload the work required to augment apps. If Apple is going to a different "small screen" is would be better if both the Touch and iPhone both tracked to the same size. ( just like they did before). With limited screen supply seems more likely that Apple would bump the iPhone screen this year and the Touch would follow next.

There is really little pricing room to sell "last year's" Touch at even lower prices. That's somewhat the role the $199 model has already been in. Besides, they have already been selling "last year's" Touch for over a year now. If the want to "cripple" it they just leave the lowest end model with just 8GB of memory. If they wan the Touch to have better market traction they'll bump the minimal storage up to 16GB. 8GB is a tad small and even with most of these "sold at cost" 7" tablet options.

Rodimus Prime
Jul 11, 2012, 09:25 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to just admit that Jobs was wrong? I'm sure he wouldn't have minded, he was only human... Wasn't he?

That or understand that Job was a marketing guy to his core. A lot of the stuff out of his mouth was marketing double speak and as such the stuff I flush down the toilet is worth more.

Just like jobs said Apple would never make a phone, Apple never would make a tablet ect. It was marketing speak or project not known to public so the crap that comes out my rear is worth more.

poloponies
Jul 11, 2012, 09:43 AM
That or understand that Job was a marketing guy to his core. A lot of the stuff out of his mouth was marketing double speak and as such the stuff I flush down the toilet is worth more.

Just like jobs said Apple would never make a phone, Apple never would make a tablet ect. It was marketing speak or project not known to public so the crap that comes out my rear is worth more.

Uh, it could also be that it didn't make sense at the time. But time and technology do not stand still and things that did not appear to be viable options in 2010 may be viable in 2012. Holding anyone to a statement made years earlier is a little unrealistic.

iSee
Jul 11, 2012, 09:57 AM
Yeah, I know. I'm seriously considering picking up an Applydea Maglus to use.

...but it's just not the same without pressure sensitivity. The iPad would be the perfect device for drawing and PS work, yet it's lacking that one feature it most needs to fulfil that role.

Plus it'd be nice to use a thin tip stylus rather than the nubs.

I actually use the el cheap-o's I linked to on Amazon, and 5 out of 6 of them work surpisingly well (one is a dud for some reason). It's definitely a different feel and you definitely use a different kind of stroke, but you get used to it.

I, too, would love a serious digitizer on the iPad, but as-is it is great for sketching and notes.

koban4max
Jul 11, 2012, 11:09 AM
I'd like to think the downvotes are for non-constructive criticism. (I may be overestimating people though)

apparently, u did

PracticalMac
Jul 11, 2012, 01:08 PM
gruber also points to jobs' repeated efforts at misdirection in which he publicly spoke out against certain ideas even as apple was pursuing them, as well as jobs' ability to quickly and decisively change his mind at times.


word!!

JGowan
Jul 11, 2012, 01:20 PM
I wonder what this will do to iPod Touch prices... any changes, you wonder?

mikerr
Jul 11, 2012, 01:39 PM
That or understand that Job was a marketing guy to his core. A lot of the stuff out of his mouth was marketing double speak
+100

Jobs was so good at marketing saying "X is crap, you don't need that" which just meant "we don't sell that (yet)" - then later on announcing it as the answer to your prayers when they do sell it.

kdarling
Jul 11, 2012, 01:50 PM
the purpose and joy of using an ipad is the size of the screen. the product was never meant to be smaller or bigger. a car with two wheels is called a motorcycle, not a minicar. why you are comparing your need for a smaller device is a moot point. the ipad wasnt meant to be stuffed in your pocket or jammed in your purse.

No one's saying that the larger iPad isn't useful or shouldn't be sold or was meant to go in pockets or purses.

They're saying that a smaller one THAT can do those things, is useful as well, no matter what Jobs claimed.

Too many people get caught up in the bogus idea that it has to be one OR the other, when it's really one AND the other.

mantan
Jul 11, 2012, 02:20 PM
No one's saying that the larger iPad isn't useful or shouldn't be sold or was meant to go in pockets or purses.

They're saying that a smaller one THAT can do those things, is useful as well, no matter what Jobs claimed.

Too many people get caught up in the bogus idea that it has to be one OR the other, when it's really one AND the other.

EXACTLY!!! Too many people act like a 7 inch iPad is an indictment of their full size one or that no one else should need one because THEY don't like want one.

The market for a smaller iPad can be quite large based portability and price front. That doesn't mean there won't still be a strong market for a bigger more capable (both is size and technology) device.

swarleystinson
Jul 11, 2012, 05:31 PM
I'm sure I'm not the first person to have thought this, but anyone else wonder if this is the remote for the new apple tv instead? Or perhaps the remote will simply be an iPad? Then again, perhaps there will be no remote at all and it will simply be voice recognition.

jclardy
Jul 11, 2012, 07:25 PM
It isn't a a 7-Inch Tablet, its a 7-Inch iPod Touch.

I don't see this being the case. An iPod is a portable media player. 7 inches isn't traditionally portable, unless you have giant pockets or are wearing a sports coat.

ktwdallas
Jul 11, 2012, 08:49 PM
Doesn't the title say it all? It's not a 7 inch tablet if it's 7.85 inches, anyway.


Actually we should really call it what it is, which is a 20cm tablet. That's why there's this weird 7.85 measurement anyway. All this stuff is designed exactly in metric, and then they just convert the numbers to not freak out the American market.

jbimler
Jul 11, 2012, 10:37 PM
the purpose and joy of using an ipad is the size of the screen. the product was never meant to be smaller or bigger. a car with two wheels is called a motorcycle, not a minicar. why you are comparing your need for a smaller device is a moot point. the ipad wasnt meant to be stuffed in your pocket or jammed in your purse.Another example of someone telling someone else what they want. There is a demand for the product, deal with it.

DeeEss
Jul 12, 2012, 08:25 AM
I want a 15" iPad!!!

Irishman
Jul 12, 2012, 08:30 AM
At the time of when steve said it there was no 7 inch tab that was very good. Im sure they have had a ton of different sizes in the lab. Only time will tell. It will replace the ipod touch.

There still aren't any 7" tablets that are very good. Sadly.

BGBUXA
Jul 12, 2012, 11:05 AM
I would have to see what the product has to offer. If it is anything short of the new iPad I will skip out on this one for the time being until they refresh it. A smaller version of the new iPad would be great with similar specs I don't expect it to up to par with the current iPad but the Retina Screen would be nice :)

d0vr
Jul 12, 2012, 12:00 PM
Well... actually yes, in two ways. First the iOS project had originally began as a tablet project which just happened to be released on a phone first.

But I'm sure you don't like that answer.

Please don't assume what answers I will and won't like. I like answers that answer my question, and according to the quote notification system, you were the first to answer it, so thanks. I had forgotten having read about Steve wanting to create the tablet initially.

iOS was redesigned in a few core ways to run on the iPad vs the iPhone. Sure this mostly just consisted in redesigning all the individual apps. Prior to Honeycomb, Android hadn't been designed for tablets. So all those 7" tabs were completely just the phone OS blown up on a tablet. Imagine if every single app on the iPad (stock apps included) were simply x2 of the iPhone apps... yikes!

Very much yikes! I've barely played with an Android tablet for longer than half an hour, and I'm not saying that Android is better by any stretch of the imagination, but I do think that iOS is better suited for smaller screens than iPads. Not to say the core of iOS couldn't used with a few more tweaks to make an even better OS for tablets!

Digital Skunk
Jul 12, 2012, 12:09 PM
Uh, it could also be that it didn't make sense at the time. But time and technology do not stand still and things that did not appear to be viable options in 2010 may be viable in 2012. Holding anyone to a statement made years earlier is a little unrealistic.

Maybe, but at times it was just mere months. The whole netbook situation was only about 7-8 months before Apple released the 11" Air and charged more for it than any netbook on the market.

No matter how you slice it, Apple's mistakes were always saying that a certain market or product didn't make any sense, instead of; "we have some ideas." When Jobs mentioned how things made no sense, then had to backtrack every Apple zealot's heart skipped a beat, then they suddenly forgot what he said not too long ago.

I don't see this being the case. An iPod is a portable media player. 7 inches isn't traditionally portable, unless you have giant pockets or are wearing a sports coat.

It depends on your definition of portable. It seems that many change the definition to whatever they need to justify their claim. Portable should be anything that a person can take with them and/or a device that runs off of an independent power source that's easy to pack up and take with you.

We have a fly pack in our university, it's essentially all the guts of a TV studio minus the cameras. It's about 400 lb but all things considered it is mobile.

A 7" iPod Touch is still VERY portable compared to a 15" iPad, or a 18.4" Alienware laptop.

Not everyone wants a device with a 3" screen and only enough battery life for a few hours.

....I do think that iOS is better suited for smaller screens than iPads. Not to say the core of iOS couldn't used with a few more tweaks to make an even better OS for tablets!

I actually think iOS is better suited for the iPad, and Android for mobile devices. iOS is just CRAMPED on that tiny screen'ed iPhone and iPod Touch. It's barely useable IMHO and I've been using it for years on and off.

They need to make the iPod Touch and iPhone screen larger, or do something about that sea of unending icons.

Android biggest benefit here is that I don't have to have ALL of my icons on my home screen . . . all the time. Apple needs to take a page from the Android/Palm/Windows Mobile book on that one.

Now, as far as tablets are concerned, iOS is a much better OS to run on a device with a screen that large. The Android tabs don't seem to utilize all that extra space well at all.

Westside guy
Jul 12, 2012, 01:19 PM
I don't see this being the case. An iPod is a portable media player. 7 inches isn't traditionally portable, unless you have giant pockets or are wearing a sports coat.

Pretty much any kind of coat has pockets, actually. And, living in the Seattle area, I wear a coat of some sort or another most of the year.

Plus I wear cargo pants most of the time.

So, yeah - a 7 or 8 inch tablet would qualify as "portable" for me. Just like millions of current Kindle users (including me) consider those devices "portable".

CausticPuppy
Jul 12, 2012, 03:34 PM
I predict it'll be a 7-inch iPod Touch, rather than an iPad.


Wi-Fi only, starting at 8GB, and no Siri.


The iPhone is moving to a 4-inch retina display, and the iPod Touch is moving to a 7-inch (lower res) display. There won't be any device with the current iPhone screen size.

It would make more sense for Apple to differentiate the iPod Touch from the iPhone, rather than split the iPad into two form factors. For some reason I think a 4-inch iPod Touch would be weirder than a 7-inch one.

That way, they are only fragmented to 3 screen sizes (4", 7", 9.7") rather than 4 screen sizes if they keep the current iPod touch around longer (3.5", 4", 7", 9.7")

SiPat
Jul 12, 2012, 05:42 PM
I am one of those weirdos who completes a 400-page novel each night, every night, 365-nights-a-year. I have a Sony eReader and an iPad. The Sony is the toilet device, the iPad is used at night when the wife wants to sleep and won't allow me to keep any lamps ON.

The beauty of both my devices is the 4:3 format -- on the Sony I read books in portrait mode and on the iPad in 2-page landscape. 16:9 or 16:10 are OK for watching wide-screen video, but if I have to live with black borders, I prefer them on video rather than on ebooks/PDF files.

If Apple does introduce a 7.85" model, I'm going to insist my daughter buys one for her kid, who keeps claiming ownership of my iPad.

nuckinfutz
Jul 12, 2012, 05:49 PM
I predict it'll be a 7-inch iPod Touch, rather than an iPad.


Not going to happen. iPods are commonly known as music devices. A 7.85 device isn't going to be aimed at playing music.

In marketing terms Apple needs to align this mythical device with what it purports to be its common usage and playing music isn't it hence no iPod.

MareLuce
Jul 12, 2012, 10:50 PM
I am one of those weirdos who completes a 400-page novel each night, every night, 365-nights-a-year.

!! How ?

shamino
Jul 13, 2012, 12:24 PM
Not going to happen. iPods are commonly known as music devices. A 7.85 device isn't going to be aimed at playing music.Most people I know with iPod Touches (including myself) use them as gaming platforms - as a better alternative to a Nintendo DS or PSP.

I still prefer my iPod Classic (or nano, if I don't want to carry around a big unit) and its click-wheel for playing music.

jbimler
Jul 13, 2012, 05:06 PM
I predict it'll be a 7-inch iPod Touch, rather than an iPad.


Wi-Fi only, starting at 8GB, and no Siri.


The iPhone is moving to a 4-inch retina display, and the iPod Touch is moving to a 7-inch (lower res) display. There won't be any device with the current iPhone screen size.

It would make more sense for Apple to differentiate the iPod Touch from the iPhone, rather than split the iPad into two form factors. For some reason I think a 4-inch iPod Touch would be weirder than a 7-inch one.

That way, they are only fragmented to 3 screen sizes (4", 7", 9.7") rather than 4 screen sizes if they keep the current iPod touch around longer (3.5", 4", 7", 9.7")So they are going to make a product that most people would consider size wise in the tablet market and slap the ipod brand on it? Doesn't make sense considering people think of ipods as pocket devices. Easier just to call it a pad of some sort.

MareLuce
Jul 14, 2012, 06:16 AM
why you are comparing your need for a smaller device is a moot point. the ipad wasnt meant to be stuffed in your pocket or jammed in your purse.If Apple does come out with a Mini, what would you estimate:

Mini quantity of units sold in first year
vs
iPad quantity of units sold in first year

?

CausticPuppy
Jul 15, 2012, 08:00 PM
Not going to happen. iPods are commonly known as music devices. A 7.85 device isn't going to be aimed at playing music.

The iPod Touch has already changed that. Now they are portable gaming, photos, and video devices. I think a 7-8 inch screen would be the sweet spot for carry-everywhere portable gaming.

G51989
Jul 15, 2012, 08:29 PM
At the time of when steve said it there was no 7 inch tab that was very good. Im sure they have had a ton of different sizes in the lab. Only time will tell. It will replace the ipod touch.

Apple doesn't care what Steve Jobs might have thought. In case you didn't hear. He's dead.

laxic
Aug 3, 2012, 11:00 AM
With some trademark innovation software could potentially solve the problem; for example, by making the device with no (or little) bezel a bit wider than necessary, they could have it display a 'dead space' where the user is gripping the tablet, i.e - a black bar, and then just slide the viewport across in order to move the dead space to the other side for holding the device with the other hand. Just needs some good detection algorithm for when a user is gripping the screen rather than interacting with it.

I agree, and think it would be fantastic if apple wrote the algorithm that detected on the screen when I am resting my hand on the display rather than a finger, and would prefer it, too. I think, however, that apple will go the direction of adding touch panels of sorts into the bezel for volume, music, and perhaps game controller control, like in a previous patent: http://www.tuaw.com/2011/04/07/apple-patents-idea-for-smart-bezel-touch-area/