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MacRumors
Jul 12, 2012, 10:17 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/12/behind-the-deal-for-apples-north-carolina-data-center/)


GigaOM takes a look (http://gigaom.com/cleantech/the-story-behind-how-apples-icloud-data-center-got-built/) at how Apple's data center in Maiden, North Carolina came to be, interviewing Catawba County Economic Development Corporation president Scott Millar for the story behind the deal. According to Millar, Apple was initially interested in building its data center within an abandoned textile mill in the area, but almost pulled out of the deal entirely when it decided that the building would be too small for its needs.Economic development officials in Catawba County, and a data center development group, had been talking with Apple for months to get the company interested in setting up its data center in town. Then the developer spent months making sure that an abandoned mill building -- a remnant of the region's days as a vibrant textile manufacturing area -- would be ready to house the new facility.

But as Apple executives got closer to making a decision, they suddenly decided that the building was just too small. It looked like Apple was going to have to go elsewhere for its massive 500,000 square-foot iCloud data center.Ultimately, Catawba County officials were able to save the deal by offering Apple the 180-acre parcel that had initially been envisioned as a cluster of smaller data centers and which is now where the company's massive data center sits.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/07/apple_maiden_data_center_aerial.jpg


The report notes that Catawba County entered the data center market in 2005 when Google was searching for a location in the area, although the search giant ultimately settled on a site in neighboring Caldwell County. But based on that experience with Google and the groundwork that had been laid in working with power company Duke Energy on data center needs, Catawba County continued to scout for other companies interested in East Coast data center locations.

Apple was introduced to the Maiden site, which had almost been sold off a year earlier, through an existing relationship with T5 Partners, a data center development group that visited the area as part of annual site tour of the region to promote data center development. With the county moving rapidly to secure the needed site, power capacity, and economic incentives, it was able to strike a deal with Apple for what is currently the company's largest data center by far.

Apple has since announced plans for another large data center in Prineville, Oregon (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/21/apple-confirms-plans-for-another-large-data-center-in-prineville-oregon/), where it has reportedly already begun building small-scale data facilities in modular buildings. And just weeks ago, Apple confirmed its intent to build yet another data center outside of Reno, Nevada (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/26/apple-planning-to-invest-1-billion-in-new-data-center-and-other-facilities-in-reno-nevada/), with the deal also including new facilities in Reno to support "business and purchasing" needs.

Article Link: Behind the Deal for Apple's North Carolina Data Center (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/12/behind-the-deal-for-apples-north-carolina-data-center/)



FakeWozniak
Jul 12, 2012, 10:20 AM
I see what looks like 2 people walking in the middle of the roof.
Massive building!

Ciclismo
Jul 12, 2012, 10:24 AM
That building is so utilitarian, it's beautiful.

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 10:29 AM
I see what looks like 2 people walking in the middle of the roof.
Massive building!

Good eye.. or perhaps you have 100 dead pixels in your MBPr. :D

KingKongUser
Jul 12, 2012, 10:33 AM
Is that a data center for ants? It needs to be at least 3 to 4 times bigger...

mrholder
Jul 12, 2012, 10:33 AM
It's not really that big. Look at the parking spots in front of the building for scale.

Glassed Silver
Jul 12, 2012, 10:33 AM
Good eye.. [...]

Or he just happens to have two of them...

Glassed Silver:mac

griz
Jul 12, 2012, 10:36 AM
Why aren't they using that massive rooftop to put their solar panels? Seems like a waste of space. Why clear another whole strip of land to do it?

basesloaded190
Jul 12, 2012, 10:39 AM
It's not really that big. Look at the parking spots in front of the building for scale.

500,000 square feet is no longer considered very big?! :eek:

iamkarlp
Jul 12, 2012, 10:46 AM
Why aren't they using that massive rooftop to put their solar panels? Seems like a waste of space. Why clear another whole strip of land to do it?

The additional roof load wouldn't have been calculated in the initial structure, and thus it wouldn't be safe to put it up.

Furthermore, whether it would have been cheaper initially to build the roof in such a way as to be a solar farm, or buy extra land is not as cut and dry as you would think.

Every successive beefing up of the roof adds to the building cost disproportionately, and you still have to deal with the fact that your workers and maintenance guys are all on the roof, every fastener needs to be water tight, you need to be so careful of the membrane, etc etc etc.

Even if they did plan on the solar right from the start, there is a good chance, depending on land value, that it would still be more economical to do the solar install at another site.

Besides, the less 3rd party workers in and around their data centers, the better they feel. Physical security will be immensely important to them.

Karl P

Edit: Fix Clarity.

lca355
Jul 12, 2012, 10:46 AM
that building seems huge to me, where do you see solar panels?

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 10:52 AM
It's not really that big. Look at the parking spots in front of the building for scale.

Duhhh. What are you talking about? Did you not read the article or look at the pictures properly? It is 500,000. Did you not notice the loading docks on the right.

I miss my down vote button.

----------

Why aren't they using that massive rooftop to put their solar panels? Seems like a waste of space. Why clear another whole strip of land to do it?

THe reason is because Apple employs professionals in everything they do.. and you are just a armchair president with employee of 1 (you) living in the basement of your mother's house and giving us your 'sound' advice.

DOWN VOTE BUTTON PLEASE

KidIcarus412
Jul 12, 2012, 10:54 AM
Deleted

nagromme
Jul 12, 2012, 10:56 AM
I see what looks like 2 people walking in the middle of the roof.
Massive building!

To me it looks like one person and a mannequin. Hard to say, though.

littleday
Jul 12, 2012, 10:57 AM
I see what looks like 2 people walking in the middle of the roof.
Massive building!

Judging by the angle of the shadows, i would say that would be the quadcopter with a DSLR camera on it to take the photo.

z2daj
Jul 12, 2012, 11:02 AM
THe reason is because Apple employs professionals in everything they do.. and you are just a armchair president with employee of 1 (you) living in the basement of your mother's house and giving us your 'sound' advice.


He had a valid question, what does that have to do with living in his mother's house?

Since this data center is so large, it would make sense to save some land-space and the money involved in developing that space as a solar farm by putting some panels on the roof.

thewitt
Jul 12, 2012, 11:13 AM
There is still plenty of land in the area, and they may need much more than 500,000 square feet of it for a large enough solar farm. I read one so called expert say that ultimately the farm would be 10x the size of the building...

KidIcarus412
Jul 12, 2012, 11:13 AM
He had a valid question, what does that have to do with living in his mother's house?

Since this data center is so large, it would make sense to save some land-space and the money involved in developing that space as a solar farm by putting some panels on the roof.

It is entirely possible they didn't plan on a solar farm until way after the design of the data center. As someone pointed out, it would be a complete structural redesign to account for all of that weight.

The land next to the data center where the solar farm is was originally planned as another data center according to local government documents posted on here months ago.

griz
Jul 12, 2012, 11:18 AM
every fastener needs to be water tight, you need to be so careful of the membrane, etc etc etc.

Hadn't thought about the potential for water leaks. The value of the data inside certainly wouldn't be worth risking.

carlgo
Jul 12, 2012, 11:18 AM
It was simply cheaper and easier to pave over more land, not better.

z2daj
Jul 12, 2012, 11:19 AM
It is entirely possible they didn't plan on a solar farm until way after the design of the data center. As someone pointed out, it would be a complete structural redesign to account for all of that weight.

The land next to the data center where the solar farm is was originally planned as another data center according to local government documents posted on here months ago.

I completely agree. It'd be silly to throw on extra weight when the building may not have been designed for it in the first place; however there is a lot of surface area on that roof, it's a shame it can't be utilized.

Ahh yes I do recall. Thank you for pointing that out. :)

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 11:26 AM
To put it in familiar context, its footprint is over 8.5 football fields (including endzones). Seems big to me.

Obviously he has more experience with data centers that are much larger.. and 'it's not really that big' is obvious based on his objective experience.

aaarrrgggh
Jul 12, 2012, 11:27 AM
Very surprised T5 was involved. They are in the business of wholesaling data center space, and the engineer they work with doesn't have a relationship with Apple, at least not that I am aware of.

griz
Jul 12, 2012, 11:28 AM
I completely agree. It'd be silly to throw on extra weight when the building may not have been designed for it in the first place; however there is a lot of surface area on that roof, it's a shame it can't be utilized.

Ahh yes I do recall. Thank you for pointing that out. :)

Just want to say thanks to all who are interested in engaging in a conversation about this rather than throwing insults around. 99% of what goes on in these discussions is just speculative chattering with the hopes that someone with a bit of knowledge can lend their 2cents. There is no place for people like OatmealRocks who do not contribute to the conversation any more than to put people down.

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 11:30 AM
He had a valid question, what does that have to do with living in his mother's house?

Since this data center is so large, it would make sense to save some land-space and the money involved in developing that space as a solar farm by putting some panels on the roof.

How is that a valid question? When did Apple become a utility company? What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me. Perhaps the poster should ask this very same question on the new Apple campus that will be built. From the rendered drawings I didn't see any panels either. It is easy in hindsight to point out subjective flaws but at the end of the day they think their assumptions and suggestions are better than the decisions made by a organization as large as apple.

JAT
Jul 12, 2012, 11:34 AM
It is entirely possible they didn't plan on a solar farm until way after the design of the data center.
But they should have. And the design would be possible. Humans are somewhat bright.

This needs to be a change in thinking for more than just Apple.

charlieegan3
Jul 12, 2012, 11:38 AM
What? No Anti-Air Turrets?:)

User3977
Jul 12, 2012, 11:40 AM
Don't forget that the area gets snow to, that stuff can add up real fast in weight. could be a reason they did not put panels on the roof. I'm sure its built strong enough to support them alone, just not with the extra snow on them.

The additional roof load wouldn't have been calculated in the initial structure, and thus it wouldn't be safe to put it up.

Furthermore, whether it would have been cheaper initially to build the roof in such a way as to be a solar farm, or buy extra land is not as cut and dry as you would think.

Every successive beefing up of the roof adds to the building cost disproportionately, and you still have to deal with the fact that your workers and maintenance guys are all on the roof, every fastener needs to be water tight, you need to be so careful of the membrane, etc etc etc.

Even if they did plan on the solar right from the start, there is a good chance, depending on land value, that it would still be more economical to do the solar install at another site.

Besides, the less 3rd party workers in and around their data centers, the better they feel. Physical security will be immensely important to them.

Karl P

Edit: Fix Clarity.

z2daj
Jul 12, 2012, 11:42 AM
How is that a valid question? When did Apple become a utility company? What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me. Perhaps the poster should ask this very same question on the new Apple campus that will be built. From the rendered drawings I didn't see any panels either.

I'm not sure from where you're getting the suggestion that Apple is "a utility company." It's a valid question regardless of who owns the building, Apple or some other company. If there is a very large building with a significant amount of roof surface area, I would think people would wonder why they couldn't put panels on the roof, building design aside. It's just a general observation, having nothing to do with corporate white papers.

Obviously if the building wasn't designed to have solar panels on the roof, or if the owner of the building doesn't want solar panels on the roof, they are perfectly able to make that decision. They own the place after all.

Don't forget that the area gets snow to, that stuff can add up real fast in weight. could be a reason they did not put panels on the roof. I'm sure its built strong enough to support them alone, just not with the extra snow on them.

Excellent point

GorgonPhone
Jul 12, 2012, 11:54 AM
this is boring:confused::confused::confused:

JHankwitz
Jul 12, 2012, 11:56 AM
Since this data center is so large, it would make sense to save some land-space and the money involved in developing that space as a solar farm by putting some panels on the roof.

Putting masive solar panels on a roof is cost prohibitive.
Do you have any idea how much solar panels weigh?
1. Supporting structure Costs
2. Instalation Costs
3. Access & Maintenance Costs

lzyprson
Jul 12, 2012, 11:59 AM
Is that a data center for ants? It needs to be at least 3 to 4 times bigger...

It's big enough for roughly 30 or so employees' and a whole lot of servers and other hardware!!

JHankwitz
Jul 12, 2012, 12:03 PM
KidIcarus412
It is entirely possible they didn't plan on a solar farm until way after the design of the data center.
But they should have. And the design would be possible. Humans are somewhat bright.

This needs to be a change in thinking for more than just Apple.

Do you have solar panels on your house or appartment? Why not? You should have planned for that since you seem to be somewhat bright.

Stephen123
Jul 12, 2012, 12:06 PM
The roof is a large reflective expanse with a massive heat source under it. Solar panels can be up to 40% less efficient when hot. Further, a well built solar farm leaves the land under the panels available for wildlife movement and water absorption from rain. There's no reason they need to pave a new expanse for a solar farm.

z2daj
Jul 12, 2012, 12:07 PM
Putting masive solar panels on a roof is cost prohibitive.
Do you have any idea how much solar panels weigh?
1. Supporting structure Costs
2. Instalation Costs
3. Access & Maintenance Costs


I am fully aware of all the costs associated with installing solar panels onto a building. Regardless, there is still a lot of surface area on that roof.

It was simply an observation.

FakeWozniak
Jul 12, 2012, 12:09 PM
Good eye.. or perhaps you have 100 dead pixels in your MBPr. :D

You reminded me of when I worked in a lab that had laser warning signs all over. One humorous sign read "Caution: Do not look into laser with remaining eye!"

I'm using an 11" MBA on a Thunderbold Display. Could you imagine the cost of a 27" Thunderbolt Retina Display? The resolution would be about 5120x2880. :eek:

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 12:10 PM
Just want to say thanks to all who are interested in engaging in a conversation about this rather than throwing insults around. 99% of what goes on in these discussions is just speculative chattering with the hopes that someone with a bit of knowledge can lend their 2cents. There is no place for people like OatmealRocks who do not contribute to the conversation any more than to put people down.

Hey special snowflake. Every time you have a brain fart does not mean what you have said is engaging or of value.

FakeWozniak
Jul 12, 2012, 12:10 PM
To me it looks like one person and a mannequin. Hard to say, though.

You'd make a good cop patrolling the carpool lane!

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 12:15 PM
I am fully aware of all the costs associated with installing solar panels onto a building. Regardless, there is still a lot of surface area on that roof.



That's your rebuttal? He gave you 3 distinct lead in reason plus I told you Apple is NOT a utility company which REQUIRES them to generate electricity and it is not their core product or service competency and you reply with REGARDLESS there is a lot of service area on the roof!? Okkkkk! YOU NAILED IT. One look from you just solved APPLE' major FLAW in their data center.

JAT
Jul 12, 2012, 12:15 PM
Do you have solar panels on your house or appartment? Why not? You should have planned for that since you seem to be somewhat bright.
Not yet. Because of cost. (I don't have $100b in cash) I'm trying to work it out, the housing/mortgage crisis has really cramped my ability to upgrade/remodel my house.

Any more complaints about me?

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 12:24 PM
You'd make a good cop patrolling the carpool lane!

lol

----------

Do you have solar panels on your house or appartment? Why not? You should have planned for that since you seem to be somewhat bright.

Hey.. these posters are obviously too smart and totally under utilized in their job. They have identified a MAJOR FLAW with APPLE's data center. What they should be doing is writing an email to Tim Cook.

----------

You reminded me of when I worked in a lab that had laser warning signs all over. One humorous sign read "Caution: Do not look into laser with remaining eye!"

I'm using an 11" MBA on a Thunderbold Display. Could you imagine the cost of a 27" Thunderbolt Retina Display? The resolution would be about 5120x2880. :eek:

27 iMac with Retina would be heaven I think or hell on my wallet.

Alameda
Jul 12, 2012, 12:24 PM
Judging by the size of the parking lot, it doesn't look like it will bring in many jobs.

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 12:25 PM
Not yet. Because of cost. (I don't have $100b in cash) I'm trying to work it out, the housing/mortgage crisis has really cramped my ability to upgrade/remodel my house.

Any more complaints about me?

100B to do solar panels for your house? I hope not. I agree on the mortgage crisis..it really is a deal breaker on any upgrades planned.

Laird Knox
Jul 12, 2012, 12:25 PM
Very surprised T5 was involved. They are in the business of wholesaling data center space, and the engineer they work with doesn't have a relationship with Apple, at least not that I am aware of.

T5 wasn't involved. The deal with T5 fell through and the county turned around and offered it to Apple.

OatmealRocks
Jul 12, 2012, 12:27 PM
Judging by the size of the parking lot, it doesn't look like it will bring in many jobs.


Ohh we have a parking lot professional here. In before Data center is not good enough in terms of jobs. We must require 1 staff per 1 server or 1 TB ratio and also complaints on how poor this solution is when Apple gives sooo many jobs to China.

I'm sure the parking lot is sufficient in term so jobs required to handle the data center.

chilly willy
Jul 12, 2012, 12:43 PM
Catawba County has been hit very hard by the recession - and previous/continued losses of mfg jobs being sent overseas. This center may not employee thousands, but it is a godsend for that area.

You can see the solar farm being constructed from the highway - I travel that way for work sometimes - but soon trees they are planting will block any view. Secretive Apple.:)

chiefsilverback
Jul 12, 2012, 12:45 PM
That's your rebuttal? He gave you 3 distinct lead in reason plus I told you Apple is NOT a utility company which REQUIRES them to generate electricity and it is not their core product or service competency and you reply with REGARDLESS there is a lot of service area on the roof!? Okkkkk! YOU NAILED IT. One look from you just solved APPLE' major FLAW in their data center.Methinks Mr O Rocks has been grounded by his mummy for looking at naughty websites so he's venting his pent up teenage angst here!

The question "why didn't Apple put solar panels on the roof?" is valid and my guess at an answer, along with the concerns raised about roof load etc... is that 500,000 sq ft is just too small to be of any real use as a solar array. The reasoning behind my assertion is that Apple are in the process of clearing 7.5 million square feet of land to build a solar farm on the other side of the street.

With regards to Mr O Rocks protestations about Apple not being a utility company, he seems to be forgetting that the plans for their new headquarters do include a small powerstation (fuel cell farm) similar to the one that's planned for the NC data center. To that end it would seem that Apple are investing some significant capital into power generation so one could argue that they are in fact something of a small utility company.

Now hopefully Mr Rocks will have his milk and cookies and calm down a little bit!?!?!

z2daj
Jul 12, 2012, 12:47 PM
That's your rebuttal? He gave you 3 distinct lead in reason plus I told you Apple is NOT a utility company which REQUIRES them to generate electricity and it is not their core product or service competency and you reply with REGARDLESS there is a lot of service area on the roof!? Okkkkk! YOU NAILED IT. One look from you just solved APPLE' major FLAW in their data center.

I don't understand what your problem is...

You really need to stop and re-read what you post, and what I post, and read it in context.

I'm not saying that Apple is a utility company. I am not saying that Apple sells electricity, nor did I say that the lack of panels on the roof is a flaw in their data center design... where you are getting that misinformation is beyond me.

I am amazed how you cannot see that I am just making a general observation. Do I want Apple to put panels on the roof? Am I demanding it? No, I'm not. I just look at their data center and think "I wonder if they could have put that surface area to use...", which is very different from "How dare they not put that surface area to use!"

Get over yourself.

chiefsilverback
Jul 12, 2012, 01:00 PM
How is that a valid question? When did Apple become a utility company? What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me. Perhaps the poster should ask this very same question on the new Apple campus that will be built. From the rendered drawings I didn't see any panels either. It is easy in hindsight to point out subjective flaws but at the end of the day they think their assumptions and suggestions are better than the decisions made by a organization as large as apple.Incidentally I think it should be law for all new buildings to include as many 'green' features as possible, from single family homes all the way up to massive commercial structures. If solar panels were a pre-requisite then there would be huge demand which would enable quicker development of new technologies and reduced price making panels more affordable.

I'm under no illusions that it would solve the world's energy problems, but it would help! Same with wind turbines and rain water storage tanks.

hickabob
Jul 12, 2012, 02:29 PM
Where are the AC units to cool that heat box?

KidIcarus412
Jul 12, 2012, 02:40 PM
Where are the AC units to cool that heat box?

Mechanical yard in the back most likely. You can see water storage towers in the picture.

----------

But they should have. And the design would be possible. Humans are somewhat bright.

This needs to be a change in thinking for more than just Apple.

Every hole in that roof is a potential leak. That is why you rarely see equipment on the roof. Penetrations to the building are almost always on the sides, hence the mechanical court yards.

tech4all
Jul 12, 2012, 02:46 PM
Duhhh. What are you talking about? Did you not read the article or look at the pictures properly? It is 500,000. Did you not notice the loading docks on the right.

I miss my down vote button.

So do I. :rolleyes:


THe reason is because Apple employs professionals in everything they do.. and you are just a armchair president with employee of 1 (you) living in the basement of your mother's house and giving us your 'sound' advice.

DOWN VOTE BUTTON PLEASE

Obviously he has more experience with data centers that are much larger.. and 'it's not really that big' is obvious based on his objective experience.

How is that a valid question? When did Apple become a utility company? What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me. Perhaps the poster should ask this very same question on the new Apple campus that will be built. From the rendered drawings I didn't see any panels either. It is easy in hindsight to point out subjective flaws but at the end of the day they think their assumptions and suggestions are better than the decisions made by a organization as large as apple.

Hey special snowflake. Every time you have a brain fart does not mean what you have said is engaging or of value.

That's your rebuttal? He gave you 3 distinct lead in reason plus I told you Apple is NOT a utility company which REQUIRES them to generate electricity and it is not their core product or service competency and you reply with REGARDLESS there is a lot of service area on the roof!? Okkkkk! YOU NAILED IT. One look from you just solved APPLE' major FLAW in their data center.


Hey.. these posters are obviously too smart and totally under utilized in their job. They have identified a MAJOR FLAW with APPLE's data center. What they should be doing is writing an email to Tim Cook.


Take a DEEP breath. There you go. Feel better?

Chill out dude. You're just some random poster on the Internet. Quit acting like you're SUPER DUPER PROFESSIONAL BOSS MAN. :rolleyes:

PeckhamBog
Jul 12, 2012, 03:18 PM
I wonder if laying turf on the roof would be useful to reduce the summer temperature and provide a degree of insulation for any severe temperatures in winter?

[I hope oat me and all is afk and doesn't critique this:eek:]

DUSTmurph
Jul 12, 2012, 03:23 PM
The simple fact of the matter is that Apple is too broke to afford to put solar panels on the roof.

chiefsilverback
Jul 12, 2012, 03:43 PM
I wonder if laying turf on the roof would be useful to reduce the summer temperature and provide a degree of insulation for any severe temperatures in winter?

[I hope oat me and all is afk and doesn't critique this:eek:]A rough estimate would suggest you'd need in excess of 5000 tons of soil to turf an area that size.

My assumptions are 3 - 4 inches of soil which would equate to 4500 - 6000 cubic feet of soil.

Calculating that got me to thinking about the snow and ice loads they might experience... An inch of ice over 500,000 sq ft would be nearly 2000 tons whilst 1 ft of heavily compacted snow over the same area would be nearly 7000 tons!

Final fact -allowing for an average annual rainfall of 48" in Maiden NC the roof of the Apple data center and therefore it's drainage system handles nearly 15 million gallons of water each year!

EDIT - Incidentally in the year 2000 the US used an average of 350 billion of gallons of water per day!

mrelwood
Jul 12, 2012, 03:50 PM
Isn't Reno a part of the UFO busy area? iPhone 6 will be partially extraterrestial? Cool!

What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me.

You really should read more on the EPEAT matter before making assumptions like that. You are wrong.

aaarrrgggh
Jul 12, 2012, 04:09 PM
For everybody talking about solar, the power consumption of the data center is on the order of 200 watts per square foot, or about 1.7MWh per year. A solar array, made of the most efficient panels currently available would generate a peak of 25 W/SF, or 10% of daytime demand, and 0.036 MWh per year, or 2% of total energy consumption. It is a drop in the bucket.

The building roof is roughly 7% of the area of the solar array they are building. It is far more efficient to centralize the generation rather than break it up into little (useless) pieces. This is even more true for a data center, as you want to be careful where you hook the inverters up-- the peak power production exceeds your peak demand, so using the utility as a buffer helps to stabilize things.

----------

Where are the AC units to cool that heat box?

The cooling towers are between the two cylindrical water storage tanks. The chillers would appear to be in the low block adjacent. Can't tell how the air-side cooling is done, but based on the old construction photos it looks like it would just be CRAC units. (Terribly inefficient cooling solution for today, but not bad for a 10-year old design.)

urbanlung
Jul 12, 2012, 05:00 PM
Duhhh. What are you talking about? Did you not read the article or look at the pictures properly? It is 500,000. Did you not notice the loading docks on the right.

I miss my down vote button.

----------



THe reason is because Apple employs professionals in everything they do.. and you are just a armchair president with employee of 1 (you) living in the basement of your mother's house and giving us your 'sound' advice.

DOWN VOTE BUTTON PLEASE

I think it makes perfect sense to put solar panels on the roof. It hardly takes a scientist to realise that on the roof the panels will be at least 30 feet closer to the sun and so more efficient. Scientifically speaking you have to use the inverse square law:
30 x 30 = 900
Then inverse by subtracting 1
900 - 1 = 899
And multiply by the number of acres
899 x 180 = 161,820 horsepower of extra energy

Four oF NINE
Jul 12, 2012, 06:53 PM
I think it makes perfect sense to put solar panels on the roof. It hardly takes a scientist to realise that on the roof the panels will be at least 30 feet closer to the sun and so more efficient. Scientifically speaking you have to use the inverse square law:
30 x 30 = 900
Then inverse by subtracting 1
900 - 1 = 899
And multiply by the number of acres
899 x 180 = 161,820 horsepower of extra energy

So.. instead of being 512,160,000,000 feet from the sun, it would only be a mere 512,159,999,970 feet away?.. yeah.. I see your point.. That's a huge difference :rolleyes:

MacDav
Jul 12, 2012, 06:58 PM
It needs to be at least 3 to 4 times bigger...

Why is that? Apple is building data centers on other sites as well. I'm sure they
have a pretty good idea of how much storage they need, and will build others as the need arises.

G51989
Jul 12, 2012, 07:18 PM
Where are the AC units to cool that heat box?

Data centers, and really large buildings in general use chillers, probably cooling towers in the back.

MacDav
Jul 12, 2012, 07:26 PM
So do I. :rolleyes:












Take a DEEP breath. There you go. Feel better?

Chill out dude. You're just some random poster on the Internet. Quit acting like you're SUPER DUPER PROFESSIONAL BOSS MAN. :rolleyes:

You seem to be the one who is bothered. Maybe you should take a deep breath.
The fact that someone has the audacity to question the rampant ignorance on this forum is what you are fighting against? You don't want any SUPER DUPER PROFESSIONAL BOSS MAN questioning your superior posts I guess.

Orange Furball
Jul 12, 2012, 07:43 PM
What kind of effect does this have on surrounding neighborhoods? (If there are any)

It just seems like this big of a project has to take some toll on neighborhoods.

G51989
Jul 12, 2012, 07:46 PM
The cooling towers are between the two cylindrical water storage tanks. The chillers would appear to be in the low block adjacent. Can't tell how the air-side cooling is done, but based on the old construction photos it looks like it would just be CRAC units. (Terribly inefficient cooling solution for today, but not bad for a 10-year old design.)

Don't see any RTUs, so they probably just used a bunch of water evaporators and used some chiller capacity.

Eh, as far as efficiceny goes, chillers are kinda garbage to start with. Unless you start getting into amonia units. ( yum ;) )

griz
Jul 12, 2012, 09:27 PM
Wow, never imagined that such a simple observation would generate such a crapstorm. Oatmeal, you need to lighten up. There is nothing wrong with making an observation and hoping someone might be able to provide a logical response. Your responses have been nothing but antagonistic.

BozieBoz
Jul 12, 2012, 10:52 PM
Whoops... I was wondering why nobody has brought this up instead of focusing on the solar array. Must have not made it past local news.

Apple isn't just focusing on solar power. They are putting in the nation's largest private hydrogen fuel cell plant. 4.8-megawatts. Yes, I know... the solar array will generate 20-megawatts, but 4.8 is still a nice little chunk.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/31/1969051/apple-plans-nations-biggest-private.html

justperry
Jul 13, 2012, 01:14 AM
Every hole in that roof is a potential leak. That is why you rarely see equipment on the roof. Penetrations to the building are almost always on the sides, hence the mechanical court yards.

One of the factories I worked for regrets the decisions they made 50 years ago to put most of their utilities on their rooftop but not for the reason you point out.
Every hole is a POTENTIAL leak but what I have seen it is almost never a problem.
Holes are made for pipes transporting heat/cold/product and for cable ducts but are always constructed so that the in/outlet is under a utility device and is higher than the edge of the roof so that if the roof gets flooded the water spills over the edge of the roof, and are also water tight.

The main problem causing damage to a roof is PEOPLE working on the roof.
They might leave rubbish on the roof, like shards of metal, ty-rap/Cable ties, bolts/nuts/screws which can lead to holes in the roof surfacing when you walk over them.
This is by FAR the most common cause of leaks on the roof of this particular American Chocolate Company.
Also, those ty-rap/cable ties to bundle electric cables disintegrate due to UV(10-20 years), fall on the ground and cause trouble when people walk over them.
People should also always try to stay on the rubber thicker mats tracks but rarely do if there is a short cut, most just don't realize the roofs sensitivity to people walking over it.


Edit: workers dropping tools/gear or any heavy materials is also a problem.

nostresshere
Jul 13, 2012, 07:09 AM
As to what goes on the roof.

Do you want to risk YOUR DATA to leaks?

Simple stuff folks. Flat roofs can leak. Eliminate the risk as much as possible. Notice there are not even A/C equipment, vents, etc or all the other crap that you usually see on a rooftop.

Alameda
Jul 13, 2012, 12:37 PM
Ohh we have a parking lot professional here. In before Data center is not good enough in terms of jobs. We must require 1 staff per 1 server or 1 TB ratio and also complaints on how poor this solution is when Apple gives sooo many jobs to China.

I'm sure the parking lot is sufficient in term so jobs required to handle the data center.I think you're missing my point: This county made a big deal out of getting this data center built. They went to a lot of trouble and effort to attract the business and offered Apple all sorts of incentives.

So is it really too much to ask a simple question: Why?

Judging by the parking lot, it looks like fewer than 100 people will work there. Sure, lots of construction workers made money for a year or two, but now it's all built. I'm not criticizing Apple or anything like that, I'm simply asking a question: WHY should a county go through all sorts of Herculean effort and large expense, in order to bring in 50 to 100 permanent jobs? That is what this whole article is about: The county "won" and secured the project. It is fair to ask why.

OatmealRocks
Jul 13, 2012, 05:15 PM
I think you're missing my point: This county made a big deal out of getting this data center built. They went to a lot of trouble and effort to attract the business and offered Apple all sorts of incentives.

So is it really too much to ask a simple question: Why?

Judging by the parking lot, it looks like fewer than 100 people will work there. Sure, lots of construction workers made money for a year or two, but now it's all built. I'm not criticizing Apple or anything like that, I'm simply asking a question: WHY should a county go through all sorts of Herculean effort and large expense, in order to bring in 50 to 100 permanent jobs? That is what this whole article is about: The county "won" and secured the project. It is fair to ask why.

Whole country made a big deal? IF you say so or maybe just the people who are being political. SO maybe a lot of news made a big deal for their 15 minutes of spot light. Why what? What are you asking? You don't make sense. Why do you think it would take more then their planned # of jobs to support this facility? Why? Are you a master of cloud infrastructure? Are you a Master Black Belt in six sigma? Why do you think the number stated by apple make you ask why the number in your view is not sufficient? Why why why?

People here ask stupid question and in hindsight are ready to be so critical as if they are some high moral consumer who thinks their words have some value to what Apple should do with their money or what they should do in terms of a business process. As if they are some executive with management and sound decision skills which would improve their business processes, procedures or corporate decision for the organization as a whole. Hey idiots, Apple is the industry leader and employ the brightest have the clout, competency and foresight on better macro decisions then what is being proposed.


----------

I think it makes perfect sense to put solar panels on the roof. It hardly takes a scientist to realise that on the roof the panels will be at least 30 feet closer to the sun and so more efficient. Scientifically speaking you have to use the inverse square law:
30 x 30 = 900
Then inverse by subtracting 1
900 - 1 = 899
And multiply by the number of acres
899 x 180 = 161,820 horsepower of extra energy



----------

Wow, never imagined that my stupid observation would generate such a crapstorm. Oatmeal, you need to lighten up. There is nothing wrong with making an observation and hoping someone might be able to provide a logical response. Your responses have been nothing but antagonistic.

True dat! You need to go back in time and not make that post. Look at the picture again. The facility is not in New York City, land is not a premium. I am surprised you didn't ask why they didn't make the facility 50' x 50' and make like 250 stories or 250 sub levels .. I mean following your logic this would save space right???

I'll throw you a bone.. because at the end of the day their is an ROI value and everything is at a cost basis. THere is a commercial building cost/ft (very important) and a whole bunch of other stuff I or you are not aware of. Short answer in the interest of time, adding solar panels would require an analysis, cost, benefit and cooperation of various general contractors which would not make it feasible or realistic given the requirements, specification, completion date and budget of the project.

Alameda
Jul 13, 2012, 06:18 PM
Whole country made a big deal? IF you say so or maybe just the people who are being political. SO maybe a lot of news made a big deal for their 15 minutes of spot light. Why what? What are you asking? You don't make sense. Why do you think it would take more then their planned # of jobs to support this facility? Why? Are you a master of cloud infrastructure? Are you a Master Black Belt in six sigma? Why do you think the number stated by apple make you ask why the number in your view is not sufficient? Why why why?

People here ask stupid questionWow, that's a pretty intense response to a question. Obviously you don't know the answer, so you've attacked me for merely asking it.

The topic of the thread is that Catawba County, North Carolina has worked since 2005 to win data center business, and in order to bring this facility into their county, they had to, "Secure the needed site, power capacity, and economic incentives," and on top of that, they won it by, "offering Apple (a) 180-acre parcel" of land.

So it's reasonable to ask a simple question: Why? Why give away 180 acres and secure power capacity and offer economic incentives in order to bring <100 jobs into your county?

Now, perhaps someone here can answer that. Perhaps the information in the article is insufficient; perhaps there is a 1,000 car lot across the street, perhaps there are many other economic benefits in addition to the jobs. Therefore, it is reasonable to ask that question. But if the fact is that the county went to all this trouble and expense for 50 jobs, most of them from out of the region, then I'd say they wasted a lot of time and money for what they got.

However, your response was utterly uncivil and uncalled for.

nostresshere
Jul 13, 2012, 07:15 PM
I think you're missing my point: This county made a big deal out of getting this data center built. They went to a lot of trouble and effort to attract the business and offered Apple all sorts of incentives.

So is it really too much to ask a simple question: Why?

Judging by the parking lot, it looks like fewer than 100 people will work there. Sure, lots of construction workers made money for a year or two, but now it's all built. I'm not criticizing Apple or anything like that, I'm simply asking a question: WHY should a county go through all sorts of Herculean effort and large expense, in order to bring in 50 to 100 permanent jobs? That is what this whole article is about: The county "won" and secured the project. It is fair to ask why.

Why?

They wanted business on this vacant land. If it made sense or you want reasons why, you might want to check with the local government there. Everyone makes their own value judgements.

Alameda
Jul 13, 2012, 08:13 PM
Why?

They wanted business on this vacant land. If it made sense or you want reasons why, you might want to check with the local government there. Everyone makes their own value judgements.180 acres of land isn't free.

I'm not anti-Apple or anti-data center or anything of the sort. I love Apple. I'm merely questioning whether the deal the county made -- which, to repeat, is THE subject of this thread -- was wise for the county.

JAT
Jul 13, 2012, 11:52 PM
I'm not criticizing Apple or anything like that, I'm simply asking a question: WHY should a county go through all sorts of Herculean effort and large expense, in order to bring in 50 to 100 permanent jobs? That is what this whole article is about: The county "won" and secured the project. It is fair to ask why.
Taxes. Big corporate installations like this are steady tax money, even if discounted. Dealing with homeowners and little shops that come and go is not a steady cash stream.

Kori
Jul 16, 2012, 09:38 AM
You can see the data center on Google Maps:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=apple+corp.+Maiden,+North+Carolina&aq=&sll=35.764343,-81.227417&sspn=0.34154,0.657806&vpsrc=6&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=apple+corp.&hnear=Maiden,+Catawba,+North+Carolina&ll=35.588609,-81.260719&spn=0.021393,0.041113&z=15&iwloc=A&cid=16685576823693685777
If that doesn't work, go to maps.google.com and find 6047 Startown Road, Maiden, NC.
There are quite a few data centers in the area, as well as trees, hilly farmland, and small towns. It's about 50 miles NW of Charlotte.