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MacBytes
Jul 28, 2005, 08:53 AM
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Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: iPods hold on the marketplace will not last. (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20050728095353)

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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Mitthrawnuruodo
Jul 28, 2005, 09:33 AM
Well, I don't expect iPods to be market leaders forever (that rarely happens, just see what happened to Sony and their Walkman), but if one more idiot brings out the "iPods don't support WMA" I'm gonna puke. Give me a break, will you! :mad:

WMA isn't even the de-facto audio standard for music, MP3 must be named that at the moment, and the number of DRM'd AACs sold today outnumber WMAs (as far as I know), and even if WMAs should "take over" the market, iPods easily will support that format if Apple just licenses it from MS and makes a firmware update for the iPods, which they would do if it was do-or-die.

iPods will lose their market share when someone out-innovate them. Not because of a file format... Stupid mo...mumble-mumble...

SFVCyclone
Jul 28, 2005, 09:45 AM
and Apple's latest iteration, the iPod shuffle, has met with limited success.
He never mentioned where he got his data from, so according to him i guess we have been lied to. WOW another guy getting payed by yahoo most likely to talk bad about the ipod. I cant believe he believes himself. :)

SPUY767
Jul 28, 2005, 09:49 AM
. . .And the ***** did spew forth from his pie-hole. The people listened not, for their ears were filled with the white buds. . .

_bnkr612
Jul 28, 2005, 09:51 AM
Apple is already working on a new market-leader. They know how to do business (sometimes).

Sun Baked
Jul 28, 2005, 09:55 AM
Like the guy expects iTunes to be toppled soon.

As long as iTunes maintains the "industry goal" everyone shoots for, I don't see too big a problem.

Especially since I don't expect Apple to let anyone play in the iTunes sandbox anytime soon. Heck, I'd expect Apple to add WMA support to the iPod instead, and capture more marketshare as they roll over and laugh at being forced into using "industry standards."

mkubal
Jul 28, 2005, 10:04 AM
An ecosystem beats a product because its collective of competitors can explore and invest in many more ideas than any single company can muster. For example, RCA might link a portable music device to satellite radio. If it fails, RCA bears the cost. If it succeeds, others will copy it. Simultaneously, Sony may push the option of adding more memory to its flash memory players. The bet may or may not pay off. But in either case, Apple on its own cannot match this capacity of the group to experiment.

Oh you're so right. Apple doesn't have billions of dollars in the bank (and climbing) with which to "experiment."

And why does it seem like all these iPod hater's articles tend to be based around not supporting WMA. Get over it people. That format is craaaaaaaap! Seriously. Who wants to have to pay MS so that they can support a crap format so that idiots like the guy who writes for Fast Company can listen to their poorly encoded files.

I think these people whining about WMA probably have thousands of WMA files they've downloaded illegally and they're angry that they might have to resteal or convert them. Tough crap.

Neerazan
Jul 28, 2005, 10:20 AM
I read a lot of rubbish every day, but this has to take the prize for the week. Talking about the ecosystems of MP3 players eh...?

Well, which MP3 player manufacturer has the ONLY noticable 3rd party accessory 'ecosystem'? One that has made start-up companies into multi-million dollar businesses in space of months?

Oh. Yeah. That'll be Apple.

Moron.

NumberGuru
Jul 28, 2005, 10:38 AM
The "killer app" aspect of the ipod is not the device itself, but rather the tight, intuitive and downright slick integration with itunes (including the itunes music store). Without this tie between the software and the hardware, the ipod is just a cool looking but feature limited gadget. In my opinion, the fact that apple is keeping the ipod a closed system only reinforces this tight connection between itunes and the ipod.

That being said, apple better get on the ball and start innovating with new ipod features if they want to keep it rolling. Give us an "itunes video store" or tivo integration. Give us a new killer design, like glowing LEDs in the case -- something cool! The ipod itself is starting to get boring, and boring ain't cool.

mrsebastian
Jul 28, 2005, 11:32 AM
wtf! if i read another one of these [bleepin] garbage articles... ok this is last one i will read, since i'm already riled up...

"The iPod is doomed. Not this month, not this year, and maybe not the next. But soon enough, Apple will lose its hold on the marketplace for both digital-audio players and digital songs. It's inevitable."

thank you captain obvious! well of course they will lose some market share as more players join the field, but they are not going anywhere, anytime soon.

"Competitors are adding tuners, cameras, gaming, and more to devices. They're rolling out a host of new music services. Meanwhile, the iPod has not changed much since its debut four years ago... Because they have created an economic ecosystem that powers innovation. Apple hasn't."

i want a music player, not a [bleepin] mp3 player / phone / camera / tv / video game / internet surfer / electric shaver / pda / toaster / coffee maker / lube dispenser... wtf! play my mp3s and i'm happy. it's not a swiss [bleep] army knife, it's an mp3 player... and wtf do you mean apple hasn't innovated?! which leads right into...

"The iPod, like most Apple products, is decidedly 'closed.' Your Yahoo music subscription won't work with your iPod because Apple does not support Microsoft's WMA file format."

short of getting into a wma / aac / mp3 debate, let's make this simple. if you created a product, i dunno, say an ice cream that stays frozen at room temperature, would you give that technology to all your competitors, so they can make all the money and run you out of business?.

"Likewise, the Internet, with its open set of tools for communication and presentation, provides standard parts for knowledge work. The Internet ecosystem enabled massive value creation, both for incumbents like Microsoft and IBM and for new entrants like Cisco, Amazon, and eBay. But remember, it was the ecosystem -- not the market leaders -- that radically expanded the market."

you can't possibly be this naive?! you honestly think these companies (market leaders or not), do any of this out of the goodness of their hearts? it comes down to dollars and cents.

we'll skip the rest and let's get to the point of your article. you want to play wma on an ipod, because it's the best player available. apple won't allow it, because they believe in aac for purchased music and mp3 / aiff for everything else... if you look around the web, you can surely find a wma to mp3 converter... and lastly, i'm sure you write these articles out of the goodness of your heart, to help support the ecosystem you talk so much about, the people of the world must be informed! of course you didn't receive any financial compensation ;)

tpatricks
Jul 28, 2005, 11:42 AM
Well, I don't expect iPods to be market leaders forever (that rarely happens, just see what happened to Sony and their Walkman), but if one more idiot brings out the "iPods don't support WMA" I'm gonna puke. Give me a break, will you! :mad:

WMA isn't even the de-facto audio standard for music, MP3 must be named that at the moment, and the number of DRM'd AACs sold today outnumber WMAs (as far as I know), and even if WMAs should "take over" the market, iPods easily will support that format if Apple just licenses it from MS and makes a firmware update for the iPods, which they would do if it was do-or-die.

iPods will lose their market share when someone out-innovate them. Not because of a file format... Stupid mo...mumble-mumble...

There's something so obvious and fundamental about what's going on with the iPod that I'm surprised media pundits, tech pundits, iPod competitors don't get it.

The seamless integration and warm and fuzzies of the whole "experience" created by the iPod, iTunes, and for those that want more music, the iTunes Music Store.

MP3 is the de facto standard for portable. AAC is the defacto 'legal' download music standard. WMA may be on more device models than iPod, but AAC is on more devices than WMA.

I doubt if iPod will hold monopoly dominance forever (there's little that does), the public loves a standard they're comfortable with, and iPod/iTunes/iTMS provides that. The others don't.

That being said, I predict an increase in pundits for 2006.

outerspaceapple
Jul 28, 2005, 11:59 AM
I think it'll hold, i mean macs haven't gotten any worse over the years, why should iPods?

go apple go.

Heb1228
Jul 28, 2005, 12:12 PM
All the doom-and-gloom iPod pundits forget that everyone who owns an iPod and buys music for it now is setting themselves up to be an iPod customer for life. People aren't going to switch to players that won't play their music.

And the funniest part is where the guys like "your iPod" won't work with "your" subscription to Yahoo music. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Like anybody has a subscription to Yahoo music?! Who the heck is he talking to???

spaz
Jul 28, 2005, 12:37 PM
I think it'll hold, i mean macs haven't gotten any worse over the years, why should iPods?
.

I think this is the most succinct counter-argument. "Competitors" have been adding bells and whistles for years now, and still, no one is buying. Over 20 million iPods have sold, and I don't know of a single person who says "boy I wish I'd gotten an iRiver so I could sign up with Yahoo". No one is complaining that their iPod won't play WMA files because no one I know has any WMA files. Yes, we know - WMA is available on a lot of devices - no one cares, obviously.

And if one more person compares Apple's iPod lead to their computer lead against IBM way back when, I'm going to off myself.

shamino
Jul 28, 2005, 02:25 PM
And why does it seem like all these iPod hater's articles tend to be based around not supporting WMA. Get over it people. That format is craaaaaaaap! Seriously.
It's garbage, but you can buy it from a thousand different places. Just like McDonalds.

The difference is that nobody thinks McDonalds is best of all possible restaurants.

Marketing people are really amusing. If you can buy a product from a thousand different places, they say it must be more successful than the prodcut that's only available from one source. Even if that one source sells more of theirs than the combined sales of all thousand of the others.

Which is why marketing people are not allowed in the Finance department. They'd be declaring overwhelming success while simultaneously filing for bankrupcy.

shamino
Jul 28, 2005, 02:32 PM
i want a music player, not a [bleepin] mp3 player / phone / camera / tv / video game / internet surfer / electric shaver / pda / toaster / coffee maker / lube dispenser...
But what if people want a pneumatic wrench that can play music?

I'm reminded of the scene from The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy where Ford and Arthur are stranded on the prehistoric Earth surrounded by marking people. After many months, Ford asks why it's taken them so long to invent fire:
"We've got to find out what people want from fire, how they relate to it, what sort of image it has for them." The crowd were tense. They were expecting something wonderful from Ford.
"Stick it up your nose," he said.
"Which is precisely the sort of thing we need to know," insisted the girl, "Do people want fire that can be fitted nasally?"
I don't think Mr. Adams was exaggerating :eek:

shamino
Jul 28, 2005, 02:36 PM
All the doom-and-gloom iPod pundits forget that everyone who owns an iPod and buys music for it now is setting themselves up to be an iPod customer for life. People aren't going to switch to players that won't play their music.
Except, of course, that you can take it elsewhere. It's easy to burn the tracks to a CD and then use your favorite program (even that same iTunes you burned the CD with) to rip them back into any format you like.

I did just that last night to make an MP3 CD (for playing in the car) with my iTMS purchases.

Of course, with those WMA-based stores, the DRM they impose won't let you burn the CD, so you have to actually do something creative (like capture the audio from your sound card or crack the DRM) to get those files into a portable format.

shamino
Jul 28, 2005, 02:40 PM
Yes, we know - WMA is available on a lot of devices - no one cares, obviously.
Well, there are the naive fools who ripped their CDs on Windows using the bundled Media Player. By default, it rips to WMA format. To DRM-protected WMA, even (so you can't play them on any computer other than the one you ripped it to.)
And if one more person compares Apple's iPod lead to their computer lead against IBM way back when, I'm going to off myself.
I find that hysterical, since the Macintosh never had a lead over PC's. Ever.

The Apple II had quite a lead. But it died because Apple made a deliberate decision to kill it, not because of anything to do with market share.

solvs
Jul 28, 2005, 03:35 PM
Well, there are the naive fools who ripped their CDs on Windows using the bundled Media Player.
iTunes for Windows reads WMA files as long as they don't have DRM. It will convert them to AAC or MP3 for you.

I find that hysterical, since the Macintosh never had a lead over PC's. Ever.
And they always forget that the Mac is a computer, and businesses use PCs. With an MP3 player, it's not about business, it's about entertainment. Something where cool and ease of use wins over most things. Sometimes even price. If you must have those other "features" that other players have, you can buy addons.

pubwvj
Jul 28, 2005, 07:57 PM
Nothing lasts forever but Apple's not exactly going to be standing still either. Just wait until people see the new iPal. A replacement for the iPod with dual-core G6 processors, solid state 100GB storage, 2GB RAM which slips into the keyboard slot turning it into a desktop or laptop computer with all your data right there. Wireless, phone, camera, scanner, music, video, everything. Your digital life. :) No, the iPod won't last. Apple will come out with something grander!