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View Full Version : We're all probably in trouble with this...


Mr. Anderson
Nov 8, 2002, 10:48 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/internet/11/08/screen.health.reut/index.html

I think I spend about 8-12 hours a day in front of my computer during the week - maybe about 4-6 on the weekends. But I'm not suffering from any of the symptoms yet - it might be because I take breaks during the day and play ultimate for a couple hours 3 days a week. Got to have something to release the tension....

D

Ambrose Chapel
Nov 8, 2002, 11:46 AM
Does video display terminal include CRT and LCD monitors? I had thought that LCDs were much easier on you in terms of stress on your eyes/head etc.

ShaolinMiddleFinger
Nov 8, 2002, 11:49 AM
It's all true. I go through those symptoms....sometimes. I resolve my problems by taking at least a fifteen minute break away from the computer ever two hours.

Mr. Anderson
Nov 8, 2002, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
Does video display terminal include CRT and LCD monitors? I had thought that LCDs were much easier on you in terms of stress on your eyes/head etc.

CRT are worse than LCDs, but staying in front of a computer all day, just sitting on your ass, can give you back aches and such. So you're eyes might feel better, but you muscles won't notice the difference.

D

Rower_CPU
Nov 8, 2002, 12:55 PM
"This result suggested that the effect of duration of daily VDT use on these scores has a threshold effect, and the prevention of mental disorder and sleep disorder requires the restriction of VDT use to less than 5 hours per day," the researchers write.

Crap...I'd never get anything done if I could only spend 5 hours a day at my computer.

The bad thing about this is that I belive TV falls under the same category...so if you spend 8 hours with the computer at work and then another 2 or so hours with TV at home, you're looking at 10 hours of VDT time...aack!!!

MisterBlack
Nov 8, 2002, 01:32 PM
I am a living testament to this study. I could have told you all of this when i was eight, playing nintendo and watching tv all weekends long.

Now i'm all too familiar with that dull headache that nests in behind the eyes and won't go away for nothing.

My boss doesn't let the employees here have breaks, unless you smoke cigarettes. Then you can have all the breaks you want in a day. So i started smoking cigarettes again. I had to stop again for the same reason i had to stop in the first place. That being, when i smoke cigarettes, i start spitting out increasing amounts of blood, which comes from my lungs.
I can't sleep at night, and when i wake up in the morning I'm tired and have to force myself to go to work. I almost got fired last week for calling in sick. Now i force myself even more. I've been getting sicker. I wake up nights with headaches. My back goes out randomly; it went out yesterday while i was driving my car. I spend eight hours a day at work in front of a computer, with no breaks of course. I edit high-resolution images for a stock digital image company all day long, and my eyes start aching after about an hour.
Of course, i'm not going to stay away from my home computer just because the work computers are trying to kill me. So the effects are compounded because i just get on the internet when i get home from work, to tune out the fact that i'm just going to have to get up and go to work in a couple of hours again.


"Every day is worse than the day before...so...every time you see me, it's on the worst day of my life...."

Sun Baked
Nov 8, 2002, 01:35 PM
Those Herman Miller chairs make modern life much easier.

diorio
Nov 8, 2002, 03:23 PM
If you take some time to get some excersise like Dukestreet says, you probably won't be as effected by this problem.

skunk
Nov 8, 2002, 05:21 PM
Personally, I find that sitting in front of an ACD screen seven or eight hours a day interspersed with a couple of dog-walks and a break for a spliff every hour or so leaves me fresh as a daisy....:p

big
Nov 8, 2002, 05:21 PM
by law, you are allowed a fifteen minute break every 2 hours, and a 30 min break (as well) every eight hours incraments. So if you have a ten hour work day (Like I do) You get a 1 hour lunch (or two 1/2 hours) and 5 fifteen minute breaks I guess.

by law, though I take a 15 min break at 10 am, 1 hour lunch @ 1pm, then another 15 min @ 3 pm. It works well, and goes along with my coffee breaks too!

weeeeeeeee! caffiene!

scem0
Nov 8, 2002, 10:24 PM
I definitely don't like to work. I like to work on computers though.
I just don't like to physical labor - Im strong and fit bc of
a lot of basketball and martial arts (not trying to gloat), but doing
physical work that I don't enjoy bothers me greatly. Working on
computers makes me happy. So I have that. And I only barely
skimmed the article, but did they not say something about
sleeping disorders. Well, I got that too - I have 'selective'
insomnia. My insomnia seems to have a mind of its own.
Sometimes I will be able to sleep 30 minutes after I go to bed
(I wish that happened more often) and sometimes it will take up
to 4 hours. I already have to wake up early for school, and
sometimes I have to go to school early for help in my classes,
and so getting 3 and 4 hours of sleep every night just isn't
helping... I have had this 'disorder' ever since I can remember -
so I doubt it has anything to do with the computer.

Mr. Anderson
Nov 8, 2002, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by MisterBlack
IMy boss doesn't let the employees here have breaks, unless you smoke cigarettes.

Big is right, you need to find the laws in written form and show them to your boss and get your breaks.

But that would be just until you actually get a new job - don't put up with that crap and move on.

D

irmongoose
Nov 9, 2002, 12:20 AM
Hey, you gotta think of it positively... maybe all the people who were born to have these problems end up using computers all day! :p

Bah. I know it's true, but I don't wanna admit it. BAH BAH BAH!!!!!




irmongoose

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2002, 01:14 AM
I don't need to sit in from of a computer for 5 hours a day to not want to go to work in the morning.:)

scem0
Nov 9, 2002, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit
I don't need to sit in from of a computer for 5 hours a day to not want to go to work in the morning.:)

same here, but for school. I take that back... I like school, but
I hate Home work. That study doesn't really apply to me
because I fit the descriptions of the 'symptoms' but they are
(for me) all inborn qualities.

JupiterZen
Nov 9, 2002, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by Sun Baked
Those Herman Miller chairs make modern life much easier.

Yeah, I'm with you ;)

Got myself one at home to. It'll cost you, but it's worth it.

:cool:

gairloch
Nov 9, 2002, 06:06 AM
Just a look around any Window$-using office and you will likely notice that the refresh scan rates of most monitors are not good. They all shake. WinXP in most cases does a reasonable job of picking up the fastest scan rate of a particular card-monitor combination, but 95, 98 & ME always defaulted to just about the lowest possible refresh rate. Unless users are savy enough to know how to change the refresh rate they spend years looking at a text coming at them @60 or 75 Hz - I can't stand even 10 seconds at anything less that 85Hz.

I'm no researcher, but I imagine this would be a large factor in any eye strain or stress coming from computer use.

I'm a new Mac user - OSX only. (I started with Jaguar). On 5 different computers I have seen X always find the best refresh rate automatically. Did previous Mac OSes do this?

mymemory
Nov 9, 2002, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by Ambrose Chapel
Does video display terminal include CRT and LCD monitors? I had thought that LCDs were much easier on you in terms of stress on your eyes/head etc.

You are making the most stupid comment. The research is not based on what kind of monitor you are using, is based on your habits.

All of you, quit being so materialist, I do not have a Herman Miller chair and I do not suffer from back injuries. Pay attention to this.

I can tell I experienced most of the symptoms:
1. Anxiety: I'm always going to the kitchen to eat something.
2. Eye fatigue: Of course, no matter what kind of monitor I use. When that happen I combine my anxiety with the eye rest and take a look to the horizon, that helps a lot.
3. Headaches: NO, usually they come because of the eye stress.
4. Lower back injuries: NO, I do not spend that much time in the computer any more and I ususally work out because I know that can happen.
5. Depression: May be, to spend so much time in a computer involves tremendus time in asolation and eventually a discordance with other humman beings, I mean, after a few month would be hard to relate to other people, that is why most of the "nerds" or computer geeks (if my spelling is right) are very frutrating getting dates and stuff.
6. Fatige: That is cause because you are not using your muscles and you do not work out, the start to deteriorate and your boddy is not use to use the average of enery that you would need during the day. I'm dealing with that right now, The solution: dring 2 bottles of gatorade during per day from 3 to 5 days, that is gonna help you stand up much more easier to do some other stuff.


Well, in my experience, all this symptoms can be applied to people that watch a lot of tv too. I'm telling you this because I have my brother that is 34 years old and suffer from all that, specially from another one that is "lack of money".

The problem is not sitting in the computer, that can actually be the result of another problem. I have seen a lot of people that are very bad realting to other people and had found a "good enviroment" working for many hours in their computers, of course, that is an enviroment that they can control. My brother suffers from that too, when he gets tired of watching tv he goes to the computer to watch porn, of course this is causing a depression cycle.

What I do is working in my computer in the morning or in the afternoon (never in booth at same time) and usually I have a date with a client in eather both of the times, that way I can spend practical time with my computer and still being able to socialize with other people, that is so important.

When I come at night I spend a few more hours in hotline and downloading stuff, but during the day I'm doing animations in after effects.

I just can't stand spending too much time in the computer, specially because I have done it before and I know the results can be worst than the ones in the article:
-Serious back injures.
-Sexual anxiety without a girlfriend.
-Depresion that end up with stress, paranoia, rache at other people, etc.
-No money
-Tendence to become a compulsive buyer (when you do not have too many things to do you started to buy things for your computer).

The worst of all is the isolation from other people and the lack of social contact, when you meet a girl and start to flyrt with her talking about macs you are just fighting for the best room in the Titanic, unless that other girl is just like you (that never happens BTW). So, do never loose social contact, in the long way that is gonna even help you with your work.

I'm 27 years old and I graduated from a Multimedia school 4 years ago and I have a audio ingeneer dregree previous of that, I specialize in midi and sound design since I was 14, I know what I'm talking about.

skunk
Nov 9, 2002, 09:35 AM
Notwithstanding that your points are good ones, it would still be interesting to know how much MORE stress is induced by flickering CRTs than by LCDs.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2002, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by skunk
Notwithstanding that your points are good ones, it would still be interesting to know how much MORE stress is induced by flickering CRTs than by LCDs.

LCDs flicker also. They just emmit a lot less radiation.

Mr. Anderson
Nov 9, 2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by MacBandit


LCDs flicker also. They just emmit a lot less radiation.

LCDs emit light, CRTs emit electrons - a huge difference. I don't know if you can compare them in terms of radiation, since they truly are two different technologies.

CRTs allow you to change the refresh rate, its the speed of the electrons being manipulated by the magnets at the back of the tube.

LCDs don't need to have a refreshrate in this sense - the transistors on the screen are a certain color and brightness and they change when the video card tells them - my TiPB doesn't even give me an option to change it.

D

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2002, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by dukestreet


LCDs emit light, CRTs emit electrons - a huge difference. I don't know if you can compare them in terms of radiation, since they truly are two different technologies.

CRTs allow you to change the refresh rate, its the speed of the electrons being manipulated by the magnets at the back of the tube.

LCDs don't need to have a refreshrate in this sense - the transistors on the screen are a certain color and brightness and they change when the video card tells them - my TiPB doesn't even give me an option to change it.

D

LCDs still have a refresh rate even though they work on a different principle.

On the difference in radiation. If CRTs just emitted electrons all you would see is a black screen. The reason that we don't is the electrons that are emitted out of the electron gun are then guided to the screen into a grill and then impact a phosphor layer. The phosphor layer glows when charged by the electrons and emits photons. That is what we see. The difference in actual eye strain is because the CRT for the most part is a lot brighter and therefore is like staring into a light bulb.

Rower_CPU
Nov 9, 2002, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
LCDs still have a refresh rate even though they work on a different principle.

On the difference in radiation. If CRTs just emitted electrons all you would see is a black screen. The reason that we don't is the electrons that are emitted out of the electron gun are then guided to the screen into a grill and then impact a phosphor layer. The phosphor layer glows when charged by the electrons and emits photons. That is what we see. The difference in actual eye strain is because the CRT for the most part is a lot brighter and therefore is like staring into a light bulb.

Way off, dude.

LCD's refresh rate is not the same thing as CRT's refresh rate. A CRT must constantly redraw the screen, since the phosphor layer only glows for a short time. The Hz rating determines how many times per second that the screen is redrawn/refreshed. A lower redraw rate will have a noticeable flicker, which causes eyestrain, headaches, etc. Even on high refresh rates, the flicker is there, just not perceptible to your eye, meaning the symptoms will still occur.

The LCD refresh rate is an indicator of how quickly the screen can update its image. The LCD's backlight is always on, and the individual pixels are either off or on, staying in their position until instructed otherwise.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2002, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU

The LCD refresh rate is an indicator of how quickly the screen can update its image. The LCD's backlight is always on, and the individual pixels are either off or on, staying in their position until instructed otherwise.

Okay the first part of your response made since. Though this last part doesn't. The stated refresh rates for LCDs does not necessarily depend on the speed of the pixels. They rate pixel speed speed in milliseconds not in Hz as in refresh rate. A lot of manufacturors do give the horizontal and vertical refresh scanning rate. The refresh rate is usually much slower then the overall pixel speed.

skunk
Nov 9, 2002, 07:26 PM
From my own experience, I'd say that an LCD is definitely less of a pain to work with than a CRT. Maybe the pixels are just that much more refreshing...:p

Rower_CPU
Nov 9, 2002, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Okay the first part of your response made since. Though this last part doesn't. The stated refresh rates for LCDs does not necessarily depend on the speed of the pixels. They rate pixel speed speed in milliseconds not in Hz as in refresh rate. A lot of manufacturors do give the horizontal and vertical refresh scanning rate. The refresh rate is usually much slower then the overall pixel speed.

This might help:
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci214075,00.html

An active matrix has a transistor located at each pixel intersection, requiring less current to control the luminance of a pixel. For this reason, the current in an active matrix display can be switched on and off more frequently, improving the screen refresh time (your mouse will appear to move more smoothly across the screen, for example).

As far as I have seen, all LCDs have a stated Hz rating of 60, but have varying response times, stated in milliseconds.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2002, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by skunk
From my own experience, I'd say that an LCD is definitely less of a pain to work with than a CRT. Maybe the pixels are just that much more refreshing...:p

I'm not trying to disagree here at all. I too believe that LCDs are better for your eyes. For my money though I will stick with the CRTs for now. That is until you can get a LCD that you can see a full length page on the screen for less then $700. Also they need to bring the pixel speed up some more.

I can't believe people are willing to shell out $2000 on an LCD screen that displays less area and has a lower response rate then a nice CRT for $600. Unless your buying one for desk space I just don't see a reason for them yet. They just haven't matured yet.

skunk
Nov 9, 2002, 07:39 PM
When you get to 22" screen size, a CRT becomes ludicrously big. And anyway, I wanted a decent partner for my Cube. It's been $2,000-worth for me.

Rower_CPU
Nov 9, 2002, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
I'm not trying to disagree here at all. I too believe that LCDs are better for your eyes. For my money though I will stick with the CRTs for now. That is until you can get a LCD that you can see a full length page on the screen for less then $700. Also they need to bring the pixel speed up some more.

I can't believe people are willing to shell out $2000 on an LCD screen that displays less area and has a lower response rate then a nice CRT for $600. Unless your buying one for desk space I just don't see a reason for them yet. They just haven't matured yet.

Some other factors that make LCDs superior:

Power consumption
Heat output
Weight


An office full of CRTs that are on for an extended period of time not only heats up, but uses a lot of electricity.

Plus lugging around 50+ lb monitors is what I'd call an "occupational hazard". ;)

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2002, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by skunk
When you get to 22" screen size, a CRT becomes ludicrously big. And anyway, I wanted a decent partner for my Cube. It's been $2,000-worth for me.

My point is that a 22" CRT will display clearly and legibly to me twice the area that a 22" LCD can.

skunk
Nov 9, 2002, 07:46 PM
Let's not forget STYLE :) :) And if it's showing you twice the area, it's also half the scale. I'd rather not have to use a magnifying glass. I preferred it when an inch on the screen at 100% was an inch on the page. Anything else really isn't WYSIWYG, which is what Macs were all about once.

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by skunk
Let's not forget STYLE :) :) And if it's showing you twice the area, it's also half the scale. I'd rather not have to use a magnifying glass. I preferred it when an inch on the screen at 100% was an inch on the page. Anything else really isn't WYSIWYG, which is what Macs were all about once.

I did say legible in my oppinion.:) I do understand the need for an office full of computers the power savings would be phenomenol. As for styling it's not worth and extra $1400 more for me to get something that is on the cutting edge and considered cool.

skunk
Nov 9, 2002, 07:56 PM
If it lasts long enough, it'll save me $1,400 in electricity bills :D Although of course I might have to pay more for my heating!

MacBandit
Nov 9, 2002, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by skunk
If it lasts long enough, it'll save me $1,400 in electricity bills :D

For a single person that would take a very very long time indeed.

skunk
Nov 9, 2002, 07:59 PM
I'm in no hurry!