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MacRumors
Jul 17, 2012, 09:12 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/17/apple-adds-shared-photo-streams-and-vip-mail-to-iphone-3gs-with-ios-6-beta-3/)


Last month, we highlighted (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/12/new-features-in-ios-6-receive-spotty-support-from-older-devices/) a number of device restrictions regarding Apple's high-profile features for iOS 6, noting that many of them would not be compatible with the iPhone 3GS while smaller subsets would not be supported on the iPhone 4 and iPad 2.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/07/ios_6_compatible_iphones.jpg


But with yesterday's release of iOS 6 Beta 3 (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/16/apple-releases-ios-6-beta-3-to-developers/) for developers, Apple has improved feature support for the iPhone 3GS, adding shared Photo Streams and VIP mail filtering. The change was noticed by a number of iPhone 3GS users, and Apple has confirmed the removal of those restrictions on its iOS 6 preview page (http://www.apple.com/ios/ios6/).

While the iOS 6 preview page previously contained eight footnotes outlining various restrictions on features, that number has been reduced to six following the release of iOS 6 Beta 3. The two removed footnotes include:- Shared Photo Streams requires iOS 6 on iPhone 4 or later or iPad 2 or later, or a Mac computer with OS X Mountain Lion. An up-to-date browser is required for accessing shared photo streams on the web.

- VIP list and VIP and Flagged smart mailboxes will be available on iPhone 4 or later and iPad 2 or later.The fact that iOS 6 is compatible with the iPhone 3GS at all marks a significant step for Apple, as the device was also the minimum requirement for iOS 5 released last year. But with Apple still selling the three year-old device, the company apparently felt that it needed to bring many of the new features of iOS 6 to the iPhone 3GS and is still working to add as many as it can within the constraints of the older hardware's capabilities.

Article Link: Apple Adds Shared Photo Streams and VIP Mail to iPhone 3GS with iOS 6 Beta 3 (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/17/apple-adds-shared-photo-streams-and-vip-mail-to-iphone-3gs-with-ios-6-beta-3/)



aelalfy
Jul 17, 2012, 09:15 AM
What about iPad 1st Gen????

Erulezz
Jul 17, 2012, 09:15 AM
Also now available on iPod Touch 4G. :)

steyn139
Jul 17, 2012, 09:16 AM
I can confirm shared photostreams works on the 4th generation iPod Touch. :)

nfl46
Jul 17, 2012, 09:16 AM
Take note Android Handset Manufacturers.

AppleMactablet
Jul 17, 2012, 09:16 AM
What about the 1st gen iPod-my 5gb iPod gets no love:p

Baklava
Jul 17, 2012, 09:17 AM
iOS 6 compatible with iPhone 3Gs.
iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.

Nothing to say. :D

Pivs
Jul 17, 2012, 09:17 AM
How well is it going to run on the 3gs? I've noticed the 5 isn't near as quick on my 3gs as on my girlfriend's 4.

Baklava
Jul 17, 2012, 09:18 AM
How well is it going to run on the 3gs? I've noticed the 5 isn't near as quick on my 3gs as on my girlfriend's 4.
It'll be slow I think, but someone who tested it should confirm that.

goodcow
Jul 17, 2012, 09:21 AM
What about iPad 1st Gen????

The 1st gen. iPad really should never have been released with 256MB RAM. I still have mine and it runs like complete garbage with iOS 5, let alone iOS 6.

AntJon82
Jul 17, 2012, 09:22 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

rmwebs
Jul 17, 2012, 09:22 AM
Take note Android, well non-Nexus Android devices.

:confused: Last I checked manufacturers were free to use pretty much any Android version they wish. So that should really be 'Take Note Android Handset Manufacturers'.

Besides, Apple isn't exactly the best at supporting older devices. They discontinued the iPod Touch 2nd gen and then gave it its last supported update a day later. Completely horrible way to treat customers.

Chumburro2U
Jul 17, 2012, 09:23 AM
Thank you Apple for using your noggin!! :apple:

ghostface147
Jul 17, 2012, 09:23 AM
What about iPad 1st Gen????

Apparently nothing.

Pivs
Jul 17, 2012, 09:23 AM
It'll be slow I think, but someone who tested it should confirm that.

Yeah that's my guess as well. Hoping to upgrade to the new iPhone, so the 3gs will just be a glorified iPod Touch from here on out.

rmwebs
Jul 17, 2012, 09:24 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

How exactly is it 'super old' when its still being sold by apple as new?! Just because it has a less powerful processor it does not make it a 'super old' technology.

The 3G[s] is actually faster than the iPhone 4 in many cases as it doesn't have to push as many pixels.

Johnf1285
Jul 17, 2012, 09:24 AM
This is good news! I just purchased an iPhone 3GS from ATT&T for $1!

Coming from a BlackBerry Bold 9780, this is a huge upgrade, even if it is a 3 year old device.

Edgecrusherr
Jul 17, 2012, 09:25 AM
Now if they can only pull the stick out of their butts and support iCloud in Snow Leopard!

Rocketman
Jul 17, 2012, 09:34 AM
whats the point of supporting the 3GS the tech is super oldMassive adoption, much of which is hand down to kids. The parents want their kids to have as good of support as practical.

By Apple not forsaking older hardware on phones like it does on its other product lines, it takes pressure off production limitations it still experiences and has a low price point partially crippled product which is Apple's forte.

I suspect if the iPhone 5 is both better and cheaper to make, which it very well may be, they might actually deprecate the iPhone 3GS. It will be interesting to see the final lifetime figure for this product which has had an exceptional product life cycle starting 19 June 2009.

I hope when they finally discontinue it they also release precise life cycle sales figures.

Rocketman

nfl46
Jul 17, 2012, 09:35 AM
:confused: Last I checked manufacturers were free to use pretty much any Android version they wish. So that should really be 'Take Note Android Handset Manufacturers'.

Besides, Apple isn't exactly the best at supporting older devices. They discontinued the iPod Touch 2nd gen and then gave it its last supported update a day later. Completely horrible way to treat customers.

Thanks for the correction. That's what I originally meant, I just didn't say it correct.

Gemütlichkeit
Jul 17, 2012, 09:35 AM
Really cool, but there's still some stuff between the 4 and 4s that doesn't make sense at all.

mono1980
Jul 17, 2012, 09:41 AM
What about iPad 1st Gen????

The huge problem with the original iPad and why I was reluctant to buy it, is that it only has 256 MB of RAM. Yet it has a much larger display, making it even more crippled than the 3GS when it comes to memory. It was a mistake on Apple's part in my opinion, especially since the iPhone 4 has 512 MB.

Kaibelf
Jul 17, 2012, 09:42 AM
What about my Newton? :rolleyes:

Galatian
Jul 17, 2012, 09:43 AM
As an iPad 1Gen owner I can now finally put the last nail on the iPad coffin for me. That was the first and the last time Apple got 800€ from me for an iPad. There poor support on that premium product, while cheaper hardware gets the same support just because it still is a money maker for them is just ridiculous!

Nozuka
Jul 17, 2012, 09:44 AM
if they bother to port the iOS to a device they shouldnt take out features just for fun/to make newer devices more attractive - its probably more work to take out the features than to have the same stuff on all devices....

not talking about features that are not possible because of hardware restrictions of course.

FSMBP
Jul 17, 2012, 09:44 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

It's a very low-cost way to get people into Apple's ecosystem. The 3GS is $0.99 on AT&T. Not a bad deal for those wanting a decent smartphone with tons of apps and ease-of-use.

bedifferent
Jul 17, 2012, 09:44 AM
So iOS 6 is good to go with an older, discontinued July 11th, 2008 3GS model, but OS X 10.8 can't run on some newer model 64-bit Mac's as Apple won't release an EFI64 for them.

Makes sense.

EDIT: In multi-tasking, I rushed to judgment. The 3G model was released on those dates, the 3GS is still covered. My apologies :)

Dr McKay
Jul 17, 2012, 09:45 AM
Take note Android Handset Manufacturers.

Galaxy S3 has a shared photo album feature.

aelalfy
Jul 17, 2012, 09:47 AM
The 1st gen. iPad really should never have been released with 256MB RAM. I still have mine and it runs like complete garbage with iOS 5, let alone iOS 6.

Yea I noticed with mine, sometimes its really slow, with many apps just crashing after a while. But I mean some pictures should come to it, I dont think it gets worst because the features wont be running in the background (ie you would run them when not running other things).. Like improved maps and improved safari & a few other features I dont remember but I recall seeing them as no risk for the hardware. :)

koban4max
Jul 17, 2012, 09:48 AM
What about the 1st gen iPod-my 5gb iPod gets no love:p

gets no love.

mdelvecchio
Jul 17, 2012, 09:50 AM
How well is it going to run on the 3gs? I've noticed the 5 isn't near as quick on my 3gs as on my girlfriend's 4.

why would you expect anything other than this?

kalsta
Jul 17, 2012, 09:51 AM
If they don't support older hardware with new OS releases, people complain. If they do support older hardware, and the new OS runs dog slow on it, people complain. (I'm still using a 3G, and even iOS 4 slowed it down considerably.) Supporting the 3GS with some of the new features, while omitting those which may be difficult to support or run poorly, seems like a pretty user-friendly strategy to me.

mdelvecchio
Jul 17, 2012, 09:52 AM
Galaxy S3 has a shared photo album feature.

that wasnt the point -- the point is android handset makers routinely never upgrade their OS instances on their various android hardware. thats the point.

Radio
Jul 17, 2012, 09:53 AM
so apple is a little less evil.

everyone happy?

mmcook
Jul 17, 2012, 09:54 AM
So, looking at the current feature comparison between devices, the only supported difference between a 3GS and a 4 is the Offline Reading List in Safari. Kind of surprised about this - wonder if they will change this as well?

I'm glad to see the 3GS still supported, but I'm a little surprised. People keep saying that Apple should support it because they sell it new, but it's fair to expect Apple to drop the 3GS from it's lineup in the fall when the next iPhone is released (alongside iOS 6). Either way, there will still be people with relatively new 3GS's that will appreciate the software upgrade.

Wish they would close the gap between the 4 and 4S features though. I don't mind Siri being exclusive (been like that since launch), but the missing maps stuff and Facetime over cellular is a little crazy..

wickedking94
Jul 17, 2012, 09:56 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

I just bought myself a 3GS a week ago, and It runs as fast as my dad's iphone 4. It may be old chronologically but the hardware is still decent. The 3GS still has better specs then most of those 0$ Androids that you can buy.

My MacBook is 2 years old does that mean Apple should cut it out of the 10.8 upgrade?

Rodimus Prime
Jul 17, 2012, 09:57 AM
Take note Android Handset Manufacturers.

you mean putting bogus software blocks in the OS to block older devices?

Come on smart mail boxes no on the 3GS, no voice navigation on the 4 or below.

Please remember Android does not have as many core function put in the OS so being on the latest and greatest is not as critical. Apple just puts BS software blocks on core functions.

praktical
Jul 17, 2012, 09:59 AM
It'll be slow I think, but someone who tested it should confirm that.

I'd strongly recommend against running it on that older model. It's in my thought going to be extremely slow to a crawl.

Carlanga
Jul 17, 2012, 09:59 AM
How well is it going to run on the 3gs? I've noticed the 5 isn't near as quick on my 3gs as on my girlfriend's 4.

Of course it's not as fast; it's older slower hardware. What were you expecting?

napabar
Jul 17, 2012, 10:00 AM
So iOS 6 is good to go with an older, discontinued July 11th, 2008 3GS model, but OS X 10.8 can't run on some newer model 64-bit Mac's as Apple won't release an EFI64 for them.

Makes sense.

Not sure what you mean by this. The iPhone 3GS was introduced in 2009, and has never been discontinued.

bushido
Jul 17, 2012, 10:02 AM
that wasnt the point -- the point is android handset makers routinely never upgrade their OS instances on their various android hardware. thats the point.

Samsung is actually rather reliable when it comes to Android updates, HTC on the other hand ...

Reason077
Jul 17, 2012, 10:04 AM
So iOS 6 is good to go with an older, discontinued July 11th, 2008 3GS model, but OS X 10.8 can't run on some newer model 64-bit Mac's as Apple won't release an EFI64 for them.


Nope. The iPhone 3GS was released on June 19, 2009. It has not yet been discontinued.

bedifferent
Jul 17, 2012, 10:06 AM
Not sure what you mean by this. The iPhone 3GS was introduced in 2009, and has never been discontinued.

Ha you sir, are correct!

I read 3G not 3GS. I jumped the gun multitasking.

My apologies... but STILL, I think I had a point, somewhere lol :o

(and being a gentleman, I upvoted you for your kind consideration :p)

Nope. The iPhone 3GS was released on June 19, 2009. It has not yet been discontinued.

You as well :)

calvz
Jul 17, 2012, 10:06 AM
iOS 6 compatible with iPhone 3Gs.
iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.

Nothing to say. :D

software : hardware

software : software

Terrible analogy.

Nicksd84
Jul 17, 2012, 10:06 AM
I still don't understand why turn by turn won't be supported on the iPhone 4.

kyjaotkb
Jul 17, 2012, 10:07 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

Same tech as the iPhone 4 in facts - only lower clocked. So not completely obsolete.

----------

I'd strongly recommend against running it on that older model. It's in my thought going to be extremely slow to a crawl.

So you tested it or what ?

bedifferent
Jul 17, 2012, 10:08 AM
Sorry mods, was hoping to throw in my post with the recent one, guess comments are coming along quickly here before double posting could be avoided. If you need/want to, please remove. Thanks!

kyjaotkb
Jul 17, 2012, 10:11 AM
Galaxy S3 has a shared photo album feature.

You mean the antique 2-weeks-old Galaxy S3? Cool...
What about the i8910 Omnia HD ? Same age as the 3GS...

Matthew Yohe
Jul 17, 2012, 10:14 AM
There poor support on that premium product, while cheaper hardware gets the same support just because it still is a money maker for them is just ridiculous!

Just because it still is a money maker for them? How about because they are still selling the device today and no longer selling iPad 1?

I still don't understand why turn by turn won't be supported on the iPhone 4.

Because Siri isn't on the iPhone 4?

Pivs
Jul 17, 2012, 10:14 AM
why would you expect anything other than this?

That's what I'm expecting. Just wondering qualitatively how bad it is going to be...


Of course it's not as fast; it's older slower hardware. What were you expecting?

I'm not an idiot. I know that older hardware is slower than newer hardware. I'm not surprised in the least that my old, cracked phone gets a little laggy. Guess I should have posed the question better. More like will it even be worth upgrading to iOS 6 or will it be a lot slower (and thus borderline unbearable) than iOS 5 is on it now?

Reason077
Jul 17, 2012, 10:15 AM
Interestingly, not only has the iPhone 3GS not been discontinued, it actually received a quiet update towards the end of 2011 when the Infineon baseband chip was switched to a Toshiba baseband.

Ciclismo
Jul 17, 2012, 10:17 AM
The 1st gen. iPad really should never have been released with 256MB RAM. I still have mine and it runs like complete garbage with iOS 5, let alone iOS 6.

I was tempted to shoot my Gen 1 iPad to put it out of its misery yesterday.

As long as the battery still holds out, I might need to relegate it to Apple TV remote control duties, because it is barely able to handle surfing the net.

Reason077
Jul 17, 2012, 10:17 AM
I just bought myself a 3GS a week ago, and It runs as fast as my dad's iphone 4. It may be old chronologically but the hardware is still decent. The 3GS still has better specs then most of those 0$ Androids that you can buy.


This is my experience too. Although it's noticeably less snappy than a 4S, there isn't that much difference in speed between a 3GS and a 4, depending on the app.

The 3GS has less RAM than the 4, but it also has a lot less pixels to push around. CPU speeds are almost the same.

BaldiMac
Jul 17, 2012, 10:20 AM
you mean putting bogus software blocks in the OS to block older devices?

Come on smart mail boxes no on the 3GS, no voice navigation on the 4 or below.

Maybe you should read the OP before rolling out the same old FUD.

Please remember Android does not have as many core function put in the OS so being on the latest and greatest is not as critical. Apple just puts BS software blocks on core functions.

And people say that Apple fans can rationalize anything. :D

blackcrayon
Jul 17, 2012, 10:23 AM
As an iPad 1Gen owner I can now finally put the last nail on the iPad coffin for me. That was the first and the last time Apple got 800€ from me for an iPad. There poor support on that premium product, while cheaper hardware gets the same support just because it still is a money maker for them is just ridiculous!

Right, forget the fact that the iPad 1 has the same RAM as the 3GS, but several times more pixels to push and more RAM hungry tablet apps to run. It's barely able to run iOS 5. It also already got 2 major updates, which doesn't really qualify as "piss poor support" in this market.

mdriftmeyer
Jul 17, 2012, 10:25 AM
The 1st gen. iPad really should never have been released with 256MB RAM. I still have mine and it runs like complete garbage with iOS 5, let alone iOS 6.

Then you're doing something wrong. My iPad 1st gen runs the latest iOS 5.x smoothly.

WestonHarvey1
Jul 17, 2012, 10:26 AM
iOS 6 is very pleasant and usable on the 3GS, in case anyone was worried.

Pivs
Jul 17, 2012, 10:27 AM
iOS 6 is very pleasant and usable on the 3GS, in case anyone was worried.

Glad to hear that!!

BaldiMac
Jul 17, 2012, 10:27 AM
Besides, Apple isn't exactly the best at supporting older devices. They discontinued the iPod Touch 2nd gen and then gave it its last supported update a day later. Completely horrible way to treat customers.

If they aren't the best, which major smartphone manufacturer is better? Apple isn't perfect. That doesn't mean they aren't the best.

WestonHarvey1
Jul 17, 2012, 10:27 AM
Then you're doing something wrong. My iPad 1st gen runs the latest iOS 5.x smoothly.

I will second that.

Galatian
Jul 17, 2012, 10:33 AM
Just because it still is a money maker for them? How about because they are still selling the device today and no longer selling iPad 1?

Care to explain the difference between this:

3GS still is a moneymaker and 3GS is still being sold?!? :rolleyes:

Because Siri isn't on the iPhone 4?

Siri isn't on the iPhone 4 because they lack a dedicated chip that processes background noise. Software wise it runs just fine.

It has nothing to do with Siri btw...why would it need that software layer of Siri for?

celaurie
Jul 17, 2012, 10:38 AM
Is it me, or is there a space at the end of that picture for another iPhone? ;)

bushido
Jul 17, 2012, 10:39 AM
What about the i8910 Omnia HD ? Same age as the 3GS...

the i8910 Omnia HD does not even run Android ... :confused:

pubwvj
Jul 17, 2012, 10:41 AM
Absurd. iOS should run on all iPhones, iPodTouches and iPads. It should gracefully shed the features that can't be supported by the hardware but support should be continued for the older devices. It is wasteful of Apple to be marooning these older devices. Same goes for OSX with support for Rosetta and Classic on Macs. This sort of behavior by Apple is anti-green and should get them serious demerit points.

bommai
Jul 17, 2012, 10:47 AM
It'll be slow I think, but someone who tested it should confirm that.

I still clearly remember that my iPhone 3GS actually felt zippier after upgrading from iOS 4.0 to iOS 5.0. You cannot compare two different generations of hardware but you can compare the same hardware running two different OSes to see if the OS had a role. I think iOS 5.0 did not put unusual burden on the iPhone 3GS.

kre62
Jul 17, 2012, 10:51 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

Same tech as the 4.

They are cut from the exact same cloth.

Anything the 4 can do the 3GS can as well.

Reason077
Jul 17, 2012, 10:51 AM
Absurd. iOS should run on all iPhones, iPodTouches and iPads. It should gracefully shed the features that can't be supported by the hardware but support should be continued for the older devices.

I agree. iOS should also be back-ported to the Newton. It's absurd that I can't run the latest apps on this device.

BC2009
Jul 17, 2012, 10:58 AM
What about iPad 1st Gen????

If they were still selling the iPad 1 then they would have made it compatible. The hardware is better than the iPhone 4 with nearly the same resolution on the screen. It's a shame that none of iOS 6 is coming to the first iPad.

mex4eric
Jul 17, 2012, 11:02 AM
Good for Apple making some new apps/features lightweight enough to run on older, less powerful devices. Certainly some 3rd party apps run great on my 4S and on my new iPad but very sluggishly on the older original iPad 1 and my wife's iPhone 3G.

But in general, app makers (including Apple) want to take advantage of the power of the new devices to provide more amazing features. A fact of life.

Galatian
Jul 17, 2012, 11:04 AM
If they were still selling the iPad 1 then they would have made it compatible. The hardware is better than the iPhone 4 with nearly the same resolution on the screen. It's a shame that none of iOS 6 is coming to the first iPad.

The things that makes me really angry is that they are now adding basic functionality: the clock app or how about tethering...I will probably just jailbreak my iPad anyway...seems rather stupid from Apple to screw their customers...this is now way to gain a loyal customer base on premium products

BaldiMac
Jul 17, 2012, 11:05 AM
Same tech as the 4.

They are cut from the exact same cloth.

Anything the 4 can do the 3GS can as well.

What in the world?

Different processors, more RAM, retina display, better camera. What exactly are you talking about?

convergent
Jul 17, 2012, 11:11 AM
iOS 6 compatible with iPhone 3Gs.
iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.

Nothing to say. :D

Welcome to the post-PC era!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

BC2009
Jul 17, 2012, 11:11 AM
Same tech as the 4.

They are cut from the exact same cloth.

Anything the 4 can do the 3GS can as well.

Are you being serious? If so, you need to be corrected. The iPhone 4 has 512MB of RAM (twice as much memory as the iPhone 3GS) and an A4 processor running at 800Mhz. Having a faster processor and twice as much memory (not to mention much-improved graphics) is hardly "the same cloth". The iPad 1 and iPhone 4 are pretty much the same internal parts, though the iPhone 4 had twice as much RAM as the iPad 1 as well, but the iPad 1 had the A4 clocked at a 1Ghz instead of 800Mhz -- faster processing, but less RAM for multi-tasking.

UPDATE: I am wrong. The iPhone 4 and 3GS essentially have the same CPU and GPU -- the A4 is basically a single SoC version of the CPU and GPU from the 3GS with more L2 Cache, higher clock speed, and faster memory bus. Any improved performance on the iPhone 4 is due to faster memory retrievals and improved clock speed, other than that its the same technology.

Yahrghrr
Jul 17, 2012, 11:12 AM
Wait wha-? I don't mean this in an insulting way but those saying iOS6 (or 5) will run fine on the 3GS and the iPad 1's performance on iOS5 is great obviously has had not experienced any of the newer devices in both the iOS and Android camps.

My iPad 1 on iOS5 vs 4: Constant page refreshes between tabs, lots of browser crashes due to memory, having to constantly use the task switcher to kill off apps or large pages will not load completely, HTML5 videos causing the browser to crash, etc. Switching to the new iPad with its 512MB (or was it 1GB) RAM was a MASSIVE difference.

My 3GS on iOS5 vs 4: Lag when typing on the keyboard. Very slow responses from apps like Downcast. Lag when navigating menus unless I kill off apps manually. Extremely poor performance with the new Podcast app though I think this is more of an application issue than 3GS performance. Other apps responding slowly when the music player is playing.

My 2010 MBA (not really iOS but...): Lost its instant on capability after switching to OSX Lion. Well, from near 0s to ~5-7s startup :\

Sorry but I do not see how upgrading to iOS6 will help in any way and if there is one thing that I've learned from owning Apple products, it is never to upgrade the OS too much. Apple after all is a hardware company and it is in their best interest to make customers upgrade hence the planned obsolescence with their OS updates.

As for me, I am just waiting for the next best iPhone to come out in October or if it is not compelling enough, maybe the GNex with Jelly Bean. Now THAT is a sweet OS with Google Now and Maps.

faroZ06
Jul 17, 2012, 11:14 AM
iOS 6 compatible with iPhone 3Gs.
iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.

Nothing to say. :D

But Lion costs only $30. I still think that iCloud should work with Snow Leopard because there are people who don't want to upgrade to Lion, like me. No Rosetta, no way.

scottwaugh
Jul 17, 2012, 11:14 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

Because this is the "free" iPhone (someone said it was a $1.00) you can get with a 2 year contract at AT&T and Apple is still selling it unlocked (~$300).

Presumably it'll fall off the update cycle (no iOS 7) after the next gen iPhone comes out.

Frankly since Apple is selling 3GS new, they should have as many features enabled as possible (that work acceptably) - typically the folks that would get a 3GS wouldn't be getting a 4S features or not (not sure that carries over to the 4).

convergent
Jul 17, 2012, 11:16 AM
Absurd. iOS should run on all iPhones, iPodTouches and iPads. It should gracefully shed the features that can't be supported by the hardware but support should be continued for the older devices. It is wasteful of Apple to be marooning these older devices. Same goes for OSX with support for Rosetta and Classic on Macs. This sort of behavior by Apple is anti-green and should get them serious demerit points.

And then users would complain that it ran like crap. I had a 3G up until a few weeks ago when my daughter dropped it in the toilet and still ran iOS 3 on it because anything newer was a pig. Apple has to draw a line somewhere to what they want to support and the fact that iOS 6 runs at all on a 3Gs is pretty good stuff. Expecting all new OS versions to run on all old machines is just ridiculous and would limit what they could do in the new releases in order to always support everything back to the beginning of time.

napabar
Jul 17, 2012, 11:17 AM
Hey, Apple supported the Mac Plus for 11 years with OS updates!

That's got to be some kind of record!

zorinlynx
Jul 17, 2012, 11:20 AM
How exactly is it 'super old' when its still being sold by apple as new?! Just because it has a less powerful processor it does not make it a 'super old' technology.

The 3G[s] is actually faster than the iPhone 4 in many cases as it doesn't have to push as many pixels.

I actually wonder why Apple is even still selling the 3GS. You'd think less hardware to support would be a good thing. You have people still buying 3GSs today, that have to be supported for at least two more years!

Rodimus Prime
Jul 17, 2012, 11:20 AM
Maybe you should read the OP before rolling out the same old FUD.



And people say that Apple fans can rationalize anything. :D

Sad part is it is not fud. It just a cold hard reality. There are 100% pure greed reasons in Apples blocks.

The other part is again a fact. People who say other wise really have very poor understanding of how Android works. Now yeah I agree the fact that the updates take for ever and are spotty at best is crap but at the same token to get updates to most of the core apps does not require an update to the entire OS.

Maps, navigation ,search ect are all done separately.

spb3
Jul 17, 2012, 11:21 AM
good move Apple.

unplugme71
Jul 17, 2012, 11:23 AM
if they bother to port the iOS to a device they shouldnt take out features just for fun/to make newer devices more attractive - its probably more work to take out the features than to have the same stuff on all devices....

not talking about features that are not possible because of hardware restrictions of course.

It's actually about the UX than anything else. If it doesn't meet Apple's standards, it won't be available to use.

jmgregory1
Jul 17, 2012, 11:30 AM
It would be one thing to complain if you just bought an iPad 1 and the update all but made it useless, but chances are that those of you still using the iPad 1 have been doing so for quite a while now.

How is it that you think you should have what feels like a new product years after using it? In tech especially, change occurs so rapidly that you're bound to have multiple updates to hardware and software over the life of the product. If you weren't happy when you first got the iPad 1, you should have returned it. If you happily used it then you shouldn't complain. The only case where Apple could be at fault is if they recommended a new software update that degraded the hardware and user experience. In cases like that, they simply need to make downgrading a simple solution.

Matthew Yohe
Jul 17, 2012, 11:32 AM
Seriously though, the member had a good point, why is the 1st gen iPad neglected while the 3GS is getting iOS 6 love?

Because one is being sold still today. Please read rest of the thread.

sers
Jul 17, 2012, 11:34 AM
The 1st gen. iPad really should never have been released with 256MB RAM. I still have mine and it runs like complete garbage with iOS 5, let alone iOS 6.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. Although I have an iPad 3 which runs great, my iPad 1 is barely usable with iOS 5. It is choppy, isn't fluid anymore, freezes a lot, and apps crash on it all the time. I'm quite angry at Apple that they've crippled my once usable iPad 1 to a paperweight. 256mb of memory is not enough and should have been released with at least 512mb.Can't stand when Apple does this. They did the same thing with my iPhone 3g running iOS 4.:mad:

Matthew Yohe
Jul 17, 2012, 11:34 AM
The other part is again a fact. People who say other wise really have very poor understanding of how Android works. Now yeah I agree the fact that the updates take for ever and are spotty at best is crap but at the same token to get updates to most of the core apps does not require an update to the entire OS.

Maps, navigation ,search ect are all done separately.

Sure, Apple could do things separately, where different groups release updates to apps at different times...

But which of these two platforms has a single, clear, coherent interface? And why do you think that is?

napabar
Jul 17, 2012, 11:42 AM
Both the iPhone 3GS and the iPad 1 are limited to 256 MB of RAM. I think what makes the 3GS still practical with iOS 6 is that it's smaller resolution/display eats up less available RAM.

On top of that, the iPad 1 hasn't been sold in over a year, while the 3GS is still for sale, and probably sells better than most people expect with its nominal or free price.

There are WAY more iPhone 3GS's out in the wild than iPad 1's.

The iPad 1 is like the original iPhone. Both were only sold for a year, then discontinued. Starting with the iPhone 3G and the iPad 2, Apple keep them around after they were superseded with newer models to have a lower price point model. That racks up their total sales over a lifetime.

iSee
Jul 17, 2012, 11:43 AM
As an iPad 1Gen owner I can now finally put the last nail on the iPad coffin for me. That was the first and the last time Apple got 800€ from me for an iPad. There poor support on that premium product, while cheaper hardware gets the same support just because it still is a money maker for them is just ridiculous!

My 1st-gen iPad works better today than the day I bought it.

Reason077
Jul 17, 2012, 11:43 AM
I actually wonder why Apple is even still selling the 3GS. You'd think less hardware to support would be a good thing. You have people still buying 3GSs today, that have to be supported for at least two more years!

Because they want to have a low-end, entry level iPhone in the market. Apple need this to compete with the new crop of cheap, but actually quite decent Android phones, like the Galaxy Y.

Most likely, they will keep selling the 3GS until they come out with some sort of "iPhone mini" to replace it.

Northgrove
Jul 17, 2012, 11:47 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

The reason is most likely that Apple still market them.

Also, I happily use mine. :D Not all of us have the latest or next-to-latest and greatest.

Anyway, as for the news here.. These two features were confusing me as for why they were left out, and I suppose it was some kind of mistake or a policy change has happened. Glad to see them there now.

RedCroissant
Jul 17, 2012, 11:48 AM
Awesome. Now my wife will have more of an upgrade than I expected!

Galatian
Jul 17, 2012, 11:50 AM
My 1st-gen iPad works better today than the day I bought it.

Mine does not. So many apps that crash including Safari (although that got better with the last update). I thought I'd use it for university and actually thought about getting the new iPad because if the retina display, but this experience made me reconsider. I now have a MacBook Air and will never ever touch an iPad again! They sure lost me as a customer over this lukewarm user experience. If you want to do serious work and not simply play some games or watch movies: don't get an iPad. It's highly overrated. No wonder nobody purchases any other tablets as their shortcomings are so obvious yet Apple's marketing is just very good in covering this up.

icemanjc
Jul 17, 2012, 11:50 AM
Heres hoping they fixed a bunch of the iCloud bugs when listening to music from iCloud. Either it crashes on me, or takes ten years to start playing.

Audigy
Jul 17, 2012, 11:51 AM
I actually wonder why Apple is even still selling the 3GS. You'd think less hardware to support would be a good thing. You have people still buying 3GSs today, that have to be supported for at least two more years!

In technical words, the 3GS and 4 have the same architecture baseline in the CPU. Both cores are "Cortexes" A8, S5PC100 Samsung based naturally with the same controlling and instructions set. The main differences between both are in the SoC packaging and speculative Apple optimizations on the SoC A4.

So, keeping firmware support for 3GS will not represent a necessary economic investment by Apple, since the 4 needs it too.

You can say, well but the baseband is different... again, not quite. Despite the different models used, they use the same SDK.

Different resolutions? Well resizing the higher resolution resources from the "retinas" to the WVGA of the 3GS is a job for minutes.

So if the support cord is cut in the future, it will be more likely due to strategic reasons. If runs in the 4, can run in the 3GS too(less pixels means 256MB will not be a problem).

Reason077
Jul 17, 2012, 11:52 AM
Are you being serious? If so, you need to be corrected. The iPhone 4 has 512MB of RAM (twice as much memory as the iPhone 3GS) and an A4 processor running at 800Mhz. Having a faster processor and twice as much memory (not to mention much-improved graphics) is hardly "the same cloth".

The iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 4, and the iPad 1 all have exactly the same CPU and graphics core.

CPU: ARM Cortex-A8
Graphics: PowerVR SGX 535

The only difference is that, in the iPhone 4 and iPad, Apple combined everything onto a single SoC, clocked it slightly higher (800mhz in the iPhone 4, 1Ghz in the iPad 1) and called it the A4.

charlituna
Jul 17, 2012, 11:52 AM
What about iPad 1st Gen????

Unlike the iPhone 3gs they aren't selling the iPad 1st Gen anymore so don't expect anything to be supported by it at this point.

utahman130
Jul 17, 2012, 11:54 AM
See, I knew the 3GS could run these features!

charlituna
Jul 17, 2012, 11:55 AM
iOS 6 compatible with iPhone 3Gs.
iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.

Nothing to say. :D


Apples and Oranges. You can comparing whether a hardware can run a software with features from a software. Not the same thing by a long shot.

That 3gs running iOS 4 didn't support iCloud either. You wanted iCloud you went to iOS 5. SAme with going from Snow Leopard to Lion. Sucks that theres's some software that won't run cause the developer was too lazy to update it or you were too lazy and cheap to upgrade (and probably too lazy and cheap to upgrade to ML) but that's not Apple's fault

AppleGuesser
Jul 17, 2012, 11:55 AM
Heres hoping they fixed a bunch of the iCloud bugs when listening to music from iCloud. Either it crashes on me, or takes ten years to start playing.

Amazon Cloud Player for me. I absolutely hate iTunes Match. Its slow, buggy, and tears through data faster than Netflix. Pass on that :) Just give amazon a try. 5 gigs of space is free and so is the app. Make a small playlist and give it a shot, if you like it, look at 20 bucks for unlimited storage, if you hate it, no loss to you at all. Something I wish Apple had done honestly. There goes 25 bucks ill never get back.

PracticalMac
Jul 17, 2012, 11:58 AM
what about the newer then 3GS iPad 1? :mad:

pk7
Jul 17, 2012, 11:59 AM
Here's my 2 cents on this matter.

It's great to see the 3GS being supported for so long. I had one before I got my 4S. It's almost become my "favorite" iPhone :D and it will be a sad day when it gets discontinued in terms of hardware production, and ultimately, software updates. But it is one beast of a phone. The performance gap between it and its predecessor is probably the largest of all performance gaps between iPhones, with maybe only the iPhone 4S-iPhone 4 gap rivaling it. That's why it's lasted this long.

In all seriousness though, the iPhone 3GS is relatively similar to the iPhone 4. The 3GS sports a 600 MHz ARM Cortex-A8 and a PowerVR SGX 535 GPU. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the A4 is essentially the same thing, but packaged into an SoC. So basically, the iPhone 4 has to power 4 times the amount of pixels with almost identical hardware, with a CPU speed which is 200 MHz higher and the exact same GPU (but let's be honest, the 512 MB RAM is pretty darn useful). The 4 struggles in that regard. Put it next to an iPhone 3GS and the 3GS, while slower, will actually be smoother. The 4's UI stutters constantly, and does lag a bit also in high-res games and such. The only reason the iPhone 4 is maybe a bit quicker than the iPhone 3GS is because of the 200 MHz CPU clock speed advantage that it has. I will put a video of it up on the MR iPhone forums sometime soon. I'd say that if iOS runs well on the iPhone 4, the 3GS, while maybe a bit slower, can still run it.

I can understand why iPad 1 owners are upset. 2 years of support seems like too little, especially for an iPad. But seeing my post above, if you take hardware similar (note: I didn't say identical, I said similar) to the 3GS like they did with the iPhone 4 and then put it on a device that runs 5x the number of pixels, you will be in for a never-ending slideshow on your iPad. In my very personal and very honest opinion, the iPad 1 and iPhone 4 are underpowered.

Also, I have a question which I'd like to get opinions on: Do you think the 3GS will get iOS 7 next year, as there will still be people getting a 3GS up to the launch of the sixth-generation iPhone (and thus, hardware discontinuation of the 3GS)? Those buying it that late would otherwise be getting only one year's worth of software updates.

charlituna
Jul 17, 2012, 12:04 PM
Mine does not. So many apps that crash including Safari (although that got better with the last update). I thought I'd use it for university and actually thought about getting the new iPad because if the retina display, but this experience made me reconsider.

Two year old 1st release hardware made you reconsider getting a vastly improved model. Something tells me that Apple won't mind that you made this choice. You come off as one of those folks that thinks your needs, wants and opinions should dictate all and if it isn't good enough for YOU then it's utter crap.

However many of us are doing quite a bit of work on iPads, as much if not more than we do on a scaled down computer like an Air. No issues for us. So perhaps instead of listening to your expert opinion, folks will try it for themselves. After all you get two weeks to return it if you bought it from Apple and as much if not longer at many 3rd party shops

napabar
Jul 17, 2012, 12:04 PM
Amazon Cloud Player for me. I absolutely hate iTunes Match. Its slow, buggy, and tears through data faster than Netflix. Pass on that :) Just give amazon a try. 5 gigs of space is free and so is the app. Make a small playlist and give it a shot, if you like it, look at 20 bucks for unlimited storage, if you hate it, no loss to you at all. Something I wish Apple had done honestly. There goes 25 bucks ill never get back.

Wow...don't know where to begin here.

Data is data, so listening to music from the internet is going to use data, irregardless of what service you use.

Amazon's service doesn't upgrade your crappy old 128K MP3's to a better quality, better codec equivalent.

You are comparing Apples and Oranges.

kre62
Jul 17, 2012, 12:05 PM
Are you being serious? If so, you need to be corrected. The iPhone 4 has 512MB of RAM (twice as much memory as the iPhone 3GS) and an A4 processor running at 800Mhz. Having a faster processor and twice as much memory (not to mention much-improved graphics) is hardly "the same cloth". The iPad 1 and iPhone 4 are pretty much the same internal parts, though the iPhone 4 had twice as much RAM as the iPad 1 as well, but the iPad 1 had the A4 clocked at a 1Ghz instead of 800Mhz -- faster processing, but less RAM for multi-tasking.

Ram does not affect processor performance/ app loading.

The processor "A4" is a cortex A8 processor, same as the 3GS

The GPU is a PoweVR SGX 535, same as 3GS

Its the same as the 3GS.

Allenbf
Jul 17, 2012, 12:05 PM
It would be one thing to complain if you just bought an iPad 1 and the update all but made it useless, but chances are that those of you still using the iPad 1 have been doing so for quite a while now.

How is it that you think you should have what feels like a new product years after using it? In tech especially, change occurs so rapidly that you're bound to have multiple updates to hardware and software over the life of the product. If you weren't happy when you first got the iPad 1, you should have returned it. If you happily used it then you shouldn't complain. The only case where Apple could be at fault is if they recommended a new software update that degraded the hardware and user experience. In cases like that, they simply need to make downgrading a simple solution.

My thoughts exactly. I have an iPad 2 and "3". I'm fully aware that in 2 or 3 years, it won't run whatever OS is out at that time, that is the nature of things.

charlituna
Jul 17, 2012, 12:08 PM
what about the newer then 3GS iPad 1? :mad:

Not being supported. Which makes sense given that it was the very first model and they made vast improvements between the 1st and 2nd. Enough that they don't want anyone hanging onto that old hardware and expecting it to be as whizz bang pow at the newer stuff. That's why they only did Apple Care for 2 years from purchase like the iPods rather than 3 like the computers. That's why they aren't supporting iOS 6. IF they decide to add anything from it they will restrict it to only the most basic functions like the VIP mail. No turn by turn, no 3d maps, etc. You still won't be able to run iMovie, iPhoto etc on it. Given how few features they would be putting in it seems rather pointless to do anything at all. So they aren't.

And before anyone starts in with Apple is Evil, remember that many of those precious Android devices out there don't get even one OS update. You are stuck with what you got when you bought it. If you are lucky you get a couple of bug fixes but sometimes there's not even that.

JAT
Jul 17, 2012, 12:13 PM
Heres hoping they fixed a bunch of the iCloud bugs when listening to music from iCloud. Either it crashes on me, or takes ten years to start playing.

Hit download first, not Play.

commander.data
Jul 17, 2012, 12:17 PM
Here's my 2 cents on this matter.

It's great to see the 3GS being supported for so long. I had one before I got my 4S. It's almost become my "favorite" iPhone :D and it will be a sad day when it gets discontinued in terms of hardware production, and ultimately, software updates. But it is one beast of a phone. The performance gap between its predecessor is probably the largest of all performance gaps between iPhones, with maybe only the iPhone 4S-iPhone 4 gap rivaling it. That's why it's lasted this long.

In all seriousness though, the iPhone 3GS is relatively similar to the iPhone 4. The 3GS sports a 600 MHz ARM Cortex-A8 and a PowerVR SGX 535 GPU. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but the A4 is essentially the same thing packaged into an SoC. So basically, the iPhone has to power 4 times the amount of pixels with almost identical hardware, with a CPU speed which is 200 MHz higher and the exact same GPU (but let's be honest, the 512 MB RAM is pretty darn useful). The 4 struggles in that regard. Put it next to an iPhone 3GS and the 3GS, while slower, will actually be smoother. The 4's UI stutters constantly, and does lag a bit also in high-res games and such. I will put a video of it up on the MR iPhone forums sometime soon. I'd say that if iOS runs well on the iPhone 4, the 3GS, while maybe a bit slower, can still run it.

I can understand why iPad 1 owners are upset. 2 years of support seems like too little, especially for an iPad. But seeing my post above, if you take hardware similar (note: I didn't say identical, I said similar) to the 3GS like they did with the iPhone 4 and then put it on a device that runs 5x the number of pixels, you will be in for a never-ending slideshow on your iPad. In my very personal and very honest opinion, the iPad 1 and iPhone 4 are underpowered.

Also, I have a question which I'd like to get opinions on: Do you think the 3GS will get iOS 7 next year, as there will still be people getting a 3GS up to the launch of the sixth-generation iPhone? Those buying it that late would otherwise be getting only one year's worth of software updates.
Yes the iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 share the same generation of CPU and GPU tech. Namely a Cortex A8 CPU and a PowerVR SGX535 GPU. The difference is the iPhone 3GS is clocked at 600 MHz vs 800MHz on the iPhone 4, the GPU is thought to see a similar 33% clock speed increase. The iPhone 4 also has double the L2 cache, double the memory bandwidth, and double the RAM. With 4x the pixels, graphically complex apps would put the iPhone 4 at a disadvantage compared to the iPhone 3GS unless it is memory bandwidth bound on the 3GS.

I'm thinking the primary reason for the 3GS continuing to be supported is not actually to reward recent buyers with new features, but primarily to provide recent buyers with some security support. Since security fixes are tied to full iOS releases, the 3GS gets iOS 6 albeit with feature limitations. I doubt Apple will continue selling the 3GS once the iPhone 5 is released and 1 year of security support for the last buyers is sufficient given the poor example the competition is setting so I don't see 3GS support continuing with iOS 7.

Audigy
Jul 17, 2012, 12:23 PM
what about the newer then 3GS iPad 1? :mad:

Why there is no support?

My theory is this. To compete with lower cost Androids both in phones and pads, Apple is keeping the support on the last generation before the resolution bump.

It will be expected to see the iPad 2 and 3GS still in production, they represent lower production costs since the LCD panels they use(which in pair with the flash memory are the most costly components) are old tech, which is cheaper.

That way Apple keeps the profits high while having a cheaper model to compete with low end models from other makers. At the same time the lower price makes it accessible to a broader audience with less money to spend.

Galatian
Jul 17, 2012, 12:26 PM
Two year old 1st release hardware made you reconsider getting a vastly improved model. Something tells me that Apple won't mind that you made this choice. You come off as one of those folks that thinks your needs, wants and opinions should dictate all and if it isn't good enough for YOU then it's utter crap.

However many of us are doing quite a bit of work on iPads, as much if not more than we do on a scaled down computer like an Air. No issues for us. So perhaps instead of listening to your expert opinion, folks will try it for themselves. After all you get two weeks to return it if you bought it from Apple and as much if not longer at many 3rd party shops

No I'm seriously just trying to give some good advice to people. A clock app and a calculator app should have been standard. Thought it would come with the merger to iOS 4 but it never happened. Tethering should have been standard as well. There are no hardware restrictions whatsoever. Name one example of software that runs better on an iPad and allows you to be more creative then on a MacBook Air!

You want a few example of what doesn't work on a 1st Gen iPad: Viewing big pdf's for one. In university we get all the lectures uploaded as pdf's and some simply keep crashing the iPad because they are too big for it. Same goes for books. Most of my medicine books are over 1000 pages long with loads of pictures. Seemed like a good idea to reduce the weight by going the iPad route? Think again...if they do load don't try to use the search function. Pages? Still no easy way of syncing the files easily between devices...(thought that is supposed to come with iOS 6 I guess). Need I go on?

All of those things I can easily do on my MacBook Air which costs just a little more the an iPad 64 GB with 3G.

How is an MacBook Air scaled down? Last time I checked my new MacBook Air i5 ULV runs circles around my old MacBook Pro with Core 2 Duo and that's just two generations in between! I get excellent battery life, almost instant-on (12s from pushing the on button to login screen), two of the things people praise the iPad for. Not to mention the fact that Apple charges you 200€ for the upgrade from 16GB to 64GB on much slower flash then what you get inside a real computer.

Point is: Apple knew very well what they were getting themselves into when they made the 256 MB A4 for the iPad and they MUST have planned on releasing the 512 MB version for the iPhone 4 only, which in retrospect really seems like a punch in the face. Apple tried to cheap on me and many other customers and now they are even dropping us further.

jthompson666
Jul 17, 2012, 12:43 PM
:Besides, Apple isn't exactly the best at supporting older devices. They discontinued the iPod Touch 2nd gen and then gave it its last supported update a day later. Completely horrible way to treat customers.

That's because iOS 4.3 and above require an arm v9 compatible processor and 1st and 2nd iDevices are only equipped with an arm v8 processor so it's not quite so horrible?

larrylaffer
Jul 17, 2012, 12:43 PM
I still don't understand why turn by turn won't be supported on the iPhone 4.

Because Apple's strategy is to get you to upgrade every other model. Since the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 are almost sure to come out at the same time, you'll be expected to upgrade from 4 to 5. If you're in the US, that's not such a big deal since you'll be eligible for a subsidized upgrade from your carrier. If you're not in a country with subsidized (locked) phones, then you really should be tired of Apple's BS software-crippling by now. :)

Reason077
Jul 17, 2012, 12:52 PM
No I'm seriously just trying to give some good advice to people. A clock app and a calculator app should have been standard. Thought it would come with the merger to iOS 4 but it never happened.

Good news! With iOS 6, the iPad finally gets "Clock".

Name one example of software that runs better on an iPad and allows you to be more creative then on a MacBook Air!

"Draw Something".

iSee
Jul 17, 2012, 01:02 PM
Name one example of software that runs better on an iPad and allows you to be more creative then on a MacBook Air!

Paper.

It seems like an Air is much better for you than an iPad 1: Great. Use the Air and sell the iPad. I just don't see why that makes you want to steer people away from the iPad "3".

bedifferent
Jul 17, 2012, 01:06 PM
Because one is being sold still today. Please read rest of the thread.

I have, thanks.

Why does it matter that the 1st iPad isn't being sold by Apple (it's still for sale through other vendors)? It's still being used my many, and is hardly unable to utilize the features in iOS 6. It was released in March, 2010 and discontinued in March 2011 w/ the second gen. Sure, it has an A4, but that doesn't negate it from iOS 6, even the 3GS is getting iOS 6 love. :)

The iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 4, and the iPad 1 all have exactly the same CPU and graphics core.

CPU: ARM Cortex-A8
Graphics: PowerVR SGX 535

The only difference is that, in the iPhone 4 and iPad, Apple combined everything onto a single SoC, clocked it slightly higher (800mhz in the iPhone 4, 1Ghz in the iPad 1) and called it the A4.

Interesting. Yet those stating the 1st gen iPad runs iOS 5 terribly and by-proxy the iPad 1 won't run iOS 6 well seems illogical, especially as my iPad runs iOS 5 without a hitch. I own an iPad 2 and 3 (regretfully as the "retina" display has 1st production quirks), so I'm not complaining about spending the cash on new models, I simply find the "logic" in Apple's hardware/model support severely lacking (and let's not get into OS X 10.8 EFI64 bit support).

Galatian
Jul 17, 2012, 01:07 PM
Paper.

It seems like an Air is much better for you than an iPad 1: Great. Use the Air and sell the iPad. I just don't see why that makes you want to steer people away from the iPad "3".

It's not that I'm trying to steer people away it's just that I want people to realize what the iPad does and especially - by Apple politic - does not do!

Good news! With iOS 6, the iPad finally gets "Clock".

Great for iPad 2 and new iPad owners...comes 2 1/2 years to late...What about calculator? Tethering just on the new one? Fragmentation?

"Draw Something".

Are you really suggesting that a capacity touch screen hold a candle to a real touchpad for artistic use?

BC2009
Jul 17, 2012, 01:13 PM
Ram does not affect processor performance/ app loading.

The processor "A4" is a cortex A8 processor, same as the 3GS

The GPU is a PoweVR SGX 535, same as 3GS

Its the same as the 3GS.

The iPhone 3GS, the iPhone 4, and the iPad 1 all have exactly the same CPU and graphics core.

CPU: ARM Cortex-A8
Graphics: PowerVR SGX 535

The only difference is that, in the iPhone 4 and iPad, Apple combined everything onto a single SoC, clocked it slightly higher (800mhz in the iPhone 4, 1Ghz in the iPad 1) and called it the A4.

Wow. I stand corrected. I knew they were all single core Cortex A8 processors, but I thought it was a new generation of Cortex A8 (kinda like how Intel keeps releasing new Core i7 processors, but each generation is faster than the previous). I also had no idea that the graphics core was the same since games run MUCH smoother on an iPhone 4 even at double the resolution.

I also heard the iPhone 4 used much less power than the 3GS per cycle -- which could be as simple as the die size for the processor being smaller (kinda like the new iPad 2 units using less power than the original iPad 2 units simply because they are using a smaller die size for the same processor).

Given the performance improvements in the iPhone 4, I am literally shocked it is the same basic technology at a smaller die size and slightly higher clock speed with integration of graphics and CPU into a single SoC.

I stand corrected.

One more thing... I think RAM can affect performance if the app was previously backgrounded and reloaded, but since iOS does not have virtual memory, I see your point. App loading is not affected -- only app "reloading" if the app is still in RAM.

rmwebs
Jul 17, 2012, 01:28 PM
That's because iOS 4.3 and above require an arm v9 compatible processor and 1st and 2nd iDevices are only equipped with an arm v8 processor so it's not quite so horrible?

The technical requirements aren't what my post was about. My post was about the fact that Apple have no issue selling a customer a product knowing it'll be EOL with no updates the following day...thats very poor customer service.

Apple really dont have a handle on iOS yet. The fact that they seem to be artificially slowing the OS down on older devices too is very evident. One such example is the iPad 1st gen running iOS5. It's noticeably slow despite the OS getting nowhere near 100% cpu, gpu or ram usage.

unlimitedx
Jul 17, 2012, 01:29 PM
I mosty keep my iPad 1 in the living room for quick web browsing. While the iPad 1 wont have ios 6, I think it is better since my iPad 1 is already so slow on ios 5 :(. Had I known how slow my iPad 1 would become (and apps crash regularly) I would have kept the iPad on iOS 4

commander.data
Jul 17, 2012, 01:31 PM
Wow. I stand corrected. I knew they were all single core Cortex A8 processors, but I thought it was a new generation of Cortex A8 (kinda like how Intel keeps releasing new Core i7 processors, but each generation is faster than the previous). I also had no idea that the graphics core was the same since games run MUCH smoother on an iPhone 4 even at double the resolution.
Besides clock speed, the Cortex A8 in the iPhone 4 has double the L2 cache and double the memory bandwidth which helps. The large increase in memory bandwidth also helps the SGX535 stretch its legs. The SGX535 doesn't have enough ALU power to efficiently run many pixel shaders at Retina resolution, but games running on 3rd and 4th generation devices aren't usually as shader heavy as games running on A5 class 5th gen devices. Instead they rely more on multitexturing where the extra memory bandwidth benefits the 4th gen devices even though they use the same GPU as 3rd gen devices.

AppleGuesser
Jul 17, 2012, 01:31 PM
Wow...don't know where to begin here.

Data is data, so listening to music from the internet is going to use data, irregardless of what service you use.

Amazon's service doesn't upgrade your crappy old 128K MP3's to a better quality, better codec equivalent.

You are comparing Apples and Oranges.

I appreciate your opinion, but to be honest, I totally disagree. Data isn't just data, you use more or less depending on the application. From experience, iTunes Match on average uses more data than Amazon Cloud Player. And who cares of iTunes match takes songs and takes "crappy old 128k MP3s" and upgrades it. Most times iTunes match took years to load and hardly ever loaded album art work. iTunes match also DOESNT stream, it only downloads songs, kinda defeats the purpose of iTunes in the cloud.

goosnarrggh
Jul 17, 2012, 01:31 PM
iOS 6 compatible with iPhone 3Gs.
iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.

Nothing to say. :D

iPhone 3GS is still being sold as a "new" device. They cannot have it shipping out of the box with a non-upgradeable OS that is already officially "unsupported".

All equipment that would have shipped with either Leopard or Snow Leopard out of the box is (with the possible requirement of installing an additional RAM module) guaranteed to be upgradeable to at least Lion, which is capable of supporting iCloud.

iMacFarlane
Jul 17, 2012, 01:32 PM
Now, if only the iOS devs who argued to shoehorn this stuff into the 3GS would go have lunch with the OS X devs and tell them all how important it is for us to get Rosetta back . . .:rolleyes:

bedifferent
Jul 17, 2012, 01:36 PM
Besides clock speed, the Cortex A8 in the iPhone 4 has double the L2 cache and double the memory bandwidth which helps. The large increase in memory bandwidth also helps the SGX535 stretch its legs. The SGX535 doesn't have enough ALU power to efficiently run many pixel shaders at Retina resolution, but games running on 3rd and 4th generation devices aren't usually as shader heavy as games running on A5 class 5th gen devices. Instead they rely more on multitexturing where the extra memory bandwidth benefits the 4th gen devices even though they use the same GPU as 3rd gen devices.

Wow, thank you sir for the information.

Having grown up on Windows "boxes", self taught in building x86-64 architecture, PPC systems and now Intel based "everything", it's amazing how the game has changed with the advent of more ARM based devices. I also didn't know how far back ARM technology dates.

The game has changed, and playing "catch up" with how quickly tech advances is becoming even more arduous.

----------

Now, if only the iOS devs who argued to shoehorn this stuff into the 3GS would go have lunch with the OS X devs and tell them all how important it is for us to get Rosetta back . . .:rolleyes:

From your lips to Apple engineers' ears. (that and EFI64 for fully 64-bit capable Mac Pro's, that's a major FU on Apple's part)

commander.data
Jul 17, 2012, 01:39 PM
Besides, Apple isn't exactly the best at supporting older devices. They discontinued the iPod Touch 2nd gen and then gave it its last supported update a day later. Completely horrible way to treat customers.
I think you're exaggerating the facts to make your point. The final 2nd gen iPod Touch model was the 8GB version and it was discontinued in September 2010 at the same time the 4th gen iPod Touch launched. The 2nd gen iPod Touch received iOS 4.1 at that time. The 2nd gen iPod Touch then received iOS 4.2.1 in November 2010, which was its final OS update. Yes, it wasn't the best support for last minute buyers, but it wasn't a next day drop, it was 2 months later.

Dan--
Jul 17, 2012, 01:54 PM
The people making cracks about wanting support for the Newton, (implying the desire to keep the original iPad supported is ridiculous) just don't get it - significant computer purchases should be supported with OS updates for several years after they were available.

The original iPad, which was a significant purchase (costing up to double what many low cost laptops cost) was first available in April 2010, and last available new in roughly Feb 2011.

That's means OS support is being dropped in roughly 18 months on this model. Perhaps necessary due to the low RAM and high number of pixels (I don't see that this should be that relevant for standard OS items), it is still poor customer service in the computer industry.

Maybe it's better than the competition, but it's not what people should expect from Apple.

atlandrew
Jul 17, 2012, 01:58 PM
Lazy graphics guy just hid the iPhone 5 layer off to the right.

bushido
Jul 17, 2012, 02:20 PM
people really feel like the 3GS runs as smooth as the iPhone 4? i just turned on my 3GS for the first time in years and i just wanted to throw it against the wall, took forever to open anything. maybe i'm just too used to my 4S but it was a hellish experience

Mad-B-One
Jul 17, 2012, 02:45 PM
I still don't understand why turn by turn won't be supported on the iPhone 4.

Because Siri isn't on the iPhone 4?


Isn't on the iPad 2 either but turn by turn is. Both are also still sold. Thing is: Now, I have to get a car holder for my iPad (meaning a passenger) so it doesn't bouce off my middle console. :D

Edit: I know the processor runs in 80% speed compared to the iPad 2, rest is the same. But the pixels shown are reduced about the same rate as well...

lovemyapple
Jul 17, 2012, 02:47 PM
I've got ios6 beta 3 on my 3gs. it world great. and 2012 os on a 2009 phone. the only thing you really don't get is the siri features and 3d maps. other than that, everything else works great.

larrylaffer
Jul 17, 2012, 03:13 PM
The people making cracks about wanting support for the Newton, (implying the desire to keep the original iPad supported is ridiculous) just don't get it - significant computer purchases should be supported with OS updates for several years after they were available.

The original iPad, which was a significant purchase (costing up to double what many low cost laptops cost) was first available in April 2010, and last available new in roughly Feb 2011.

That's means OS support is being dropped in roughly 18 months on this model. Perhaps necessary due to the low RAM and high number of pixels (I don't see that this should be that relevant for standard OS items), it is still poor customer service in the computer industry.

Maybe it's better than the competition, but it's not what people should expect from Apple.

I agree 100% with this. Implying that the original iPad is somehow not good enough for modern apps is a complete joke. Yes, it's got less memory, but as an app developer I can tell you that this constraint isn't a particularly big deal given modern development practices.

Reason077
Jul 17, 2012, 03:17 PM
people really feel like the 3GS runs as smooth as the iPhone 4? i just turned on my 3GS for the first time in years and i just wanted to throw it against the wall, took forever to open anything. maybe i'm just too used to my 4S but it was a hellish experience

Well, the 4S is another beast altogether.

3GS -> 4 = small difference.

4 -> 4S = big difference.

chrmjenkins
Jul 17, 2012, 03:18 PM
iOS 6 compatible with iPhone 3Gs.
iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.

Nothing to say. :D

You're comparing OS compatbility with devices against feature compatbility with OSes. That's like complaining you can't use Siri in iOS 4. I'm not defending Apple's device choices, I'm just pointing out it's a false comparison.

As to the poor iPad 1 owners, Apple's decision to support isn't a hardware restriction, it's a sales one. The iPad 1 hasn't been sold in over a year, whereas the 3GS still sells now. It's a lot worse PR move to openly say you're going to stop supporting a device you still make vs one you haven't sold for over a year. Again, not defending, just explaining Apple's logic.

viperGTS
Jul 17, 2012, 03:33 PM
Are you being serious? If so, you need to be corrected. The iPhone 4 has 512MB of RAM (twice as much memory as the iPhone 3GS) and an A4 processor running at 800Mhz. Having a faster processor and twice as much memory (not to mention much-improved graphics) is hardly "the same cloth". The iPad 1 and iPhone 4 are pretty much the same internal parts, though the iPhone 4 had twice as much RAM as the iPad 1 as well, but the iPad 1 had the A4 clocked at a 1Ghz instead of 800Mhz -- faster processing, but less RAM for multi-tasking.

LOL, since when did the iPhone 4 have "much improved graphics" over the 3GS?
The 3GS outperforms the 4 in graphics in nearly every benchmark. Check out the pawa benchmark comparison on YouTube.

bushido
Jul 17, 2012, 03:56 PM
Well, the 4S is another beast altogether.

3GS -> 4 = small difference.

4 -> 4S = big difference.

i actually have all 3 and i think the difference between the 3GS on iOS5 and the iPhone 4 on iOS5 is bigger than the difference between 4 and 4S. without siri i wouldnt even notice if i was holding my 4 instead of the 4S

ade2bee
Jul 17, 2012, 04:18 PM
The 1st gen. iPad really should never have been released with 256MB RAM. I still have mine and it runs like complete garbage with iOS 5, let alone iOS 6.

Really? So what does the 3GS run... this is just twoddle

GorgonPhone
Jul 17, 2012, 04:19 PM
I DoNT SEE HOW ANY JONE CAN STILL USE A 3GS EVEN the 4 became too slow for me.. the 4S is the only iphone that i can now feel satisfied with ..

ade2bee
Jul 17, 2012, 04:22 PM
The people making cracks about wanting support for the Newton, (implying the desire to keep the original iPad supported is ridiculous) just don't get it - significant computer purchases should be supported with OS updates for several years after they were available.

The original iPad, which was a significant purchase (costing up to double what many low cost laptops cost) was first available in April 2010, and last available new in roughly Feb 2011.

That's means OS support is being dropped in roughly 18 months on this model. Perhaps necessary due to the low RAM and high number of pixels (I don't see that this should be that relevant for standard OS items), it is still poor customer service in the computer industry.

Maybe it's better than the competition, but it's not what people should expect from Apple.

I think we're going to see more of this from Apple and more of what Apple stood for from the competitors, because Apple hasn't been smacked in the kisser yet and they have and have learned

NedBookPro
Jul 17, 2012, 04:43 PM
But with Apple still selling the three year-old device, the company apparently felt that it needed to bring many of the new features of iOS 6 to the iPhone 3GS and is still working to add as many as it can within the constraints of the older hardware's capabilities.


This is the point. Apple is still selling a product line and it SHOULD support as many features as possible, or stop selling the product.

Enough milking already.

----------


iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.
Nothing to say


Apple? Hello?
Any response as to why iClould is not "compatible" with Snow Leopard?

This can't be blamed on performance like all other exclusions seem to be.
I run both SL and Lion on different systems... at least give us cloud enabled mail / calendar on SL. Is that too much to ask?

NedBookPro
Jul 17, 2012, 05:02 PM
How exactly is it 'super old' when its still being sold by apple as new?! Just because it has a less powerful processor it does not make it a 'super old' technology.

The 3G[s] is actually faster than the iPhone 4 in many cases as it doesn't have to push as many pixels.

Agree. This is the thing that's infuriating. It's still being sold as new, but being treated as out-dated.

When it was originally released people invested huge amounts of money on these things. Either support it, or get rid of it.

I said it before, I'll say it again apple: enough milking already. You're the richest company in the world. Throw people a bone.

----------

Now if they can only pull the stick out of their butts and support iCloud in Snow Leopard!

You, like me, like many others will be long in our graves still waiting.
It's frustrating when you check software update, and there's NEVER any meaningful updates for SL (if any at all). I still live in hope that iCloud support will come.

It appears the SL is like the ghost town landscape where you see those tumble-weeds roll past.

There will be people out there thinking: "why don't you upgrade to Lion"? Well - I do run Lion on another faster quad core system... and I'm not happy with it's boot up and shut down times. Its performance is generally worse than SL's. That's why I choose to keep SL on my dual core system. I know for a fact a lot of SL users feel this way, so I'm not alone.
The least apple could do is support iCloud functionality so our SL based systems aren't left out in the cold.

NedBookPro
Jul 17, 2012, 05:30 PM
software : hardware

software : software

Terrible analogy.

Terrible response. As a programer myself, I know it wouldn't be that difficult for apple to make SL iCloud compatible. They just DON'T WANT TO. It's all in the push to forge ahead. The trouble is, people who still use it, get left behind like road-kill.

I really feel for you guys who spent $900 on 1st gen ipad for example. Huge amounts of money spent on what only a short time later is worth nothing, and is not fully supported anymore.
16GB+3G+WiFi on ebay for $100. We all know computers depreciate... but like this? Makes you wary.

----------

Absurd. iOS should run on all iPhones, iPodTouches and iPads. It should gracefully shed the features that can't be supported by the hardware but support should be continued for the older devices. It is wasteful of Apple to be marooning these older devices. Same goes for OSX with support for Rosetta and Classic on Macs. This sort of behavior by Apple is anti-green and should get them serious demerit points.

Totally agree.

HangmanSwingset
Jul 17, 2012, 05:33 PM
Absurd. iOS should run on all iPhones, iPodTouches and iPads. It should gracefully shed the features that can't be supported by the hardware but support should be continued for the older devices. It is wasteful of Apple to be marooning these older devices. Same goes for OSX with support for Rosetta and Classic on Macs. This sort of behavior by Apple is anti-green and should get them serious demerit points.

I know, right? I should be able to install Windows 7 on my old Windows 98 machine. I feel ripped off. I want my money back.

/sarcasm

NedBookPro
Jul 17, 2012, 05:36 PM
But Lion costs only $30. I still think that iCloud should work with Snow Leopard because there are people who don't want to upgrade to Lion, like me. No Rosetta, no way.

Yup... and it's not about the cost. I'll happily pay apple to enable iCloud in Snow Leopard for $50.

Apple? Money's on the table.

kilwo
Jul 17, 2012, 05:46 PM
Apparently fragmentation in Android is bad, but engineered obsolescence, forcing users to use different OS’s is perfectly fine.

Apple has woeful support for old hardware. Unless you have their latest hardware; phones, iPods, iPads or computers, you just cannot run the latest software.

Sometimes it’s because the hardware cannot run it, but given there are hacks that get around the Apple restrictions, clearly, it’s not so cut and dry.

Apple are turning into an evil monopoly.

Lancer
Jul 17, 2012, 05:46 PM
I'm still on the fence as to putting iOS6 on my 3Gs, might wait and see how others do first.

kilwo
Jul 17, 2012, 05:52 PM
I know, right? I should be able to install Windows 7 on my old Windows 98 machine. I feel ripped off. I want my money back.

/sarcasm

Windows 98 is 14 years old! And so long as you meet the minimum hardware requirements, you can install Win 7 on any hardware. It's a pure hardware restriction, not a marketing decision.

Lancer
Jul 17, 2012, 06:01 PM
I know, right? I should be able to install Windows 7 on my old Windows 98 machine. I feel ripped off. I want my money back.

/sarcasm

I have XP Pro on an old PC but unfortunately it can't be upgraded at a reasonable cost to work with Win7 or the forthcoming Win8, it can run Vista but seriously who want that? Better off saving my money on that one and getting something newer when needed with Win8 already installed.

My Mac comes first, just waiting on Apple to update the iMac.

mosx
Jul 17, 2012, 06:02 PM
It would be one thing to complain if you just bought an iPad 1 and the update all but made it useless, but chances are that those of you still using the iPad 1 have been doing so for quite a while now.

How is it that you think you should have what feels like a new product years after using it? In tech especially, change occurs so rapidly that you're bound to have multiple updates to hardware and software over the life of the product. If you weren't happy when you first got the iPad 1, you should have returned it. If you happily used it then you shouldn't complain. The only case where Apple could be at fault is if they recommended a new software update that degraded the hardware and user experience. In cases like that, they simply need to make downgrading a simple solution.

Why shouldn't people complain? The iPad was essentially marketed as a computer. It was priced the same as a computer, and in fact cost more than my desktop that is still faster than the current Mac Pro in many ways. People who bought and still own an iPad have every right to expect and demand the same level of support as a computer, seeing as how it cost as much as one.

When I buy or build a computer, I expect at least half a decade of support for it and thats generally what I get.

Seeing as how the iPad cost more than my desktop that is more capable than the Mac Pro in some ways, I should at least get 4-5 years worth of support for it. It doesn't need to be "new features" (because, let's be honest here, iOS 6 is more like 5.2), but it should receive security updates and bug fixes. At least an update to fix the awful UI in the "Music" app.

It's not fair at all that a device that cost as much or more than significantly more capable computers only receives two years of support. Even worse is that Apple sold the original iPad refurbished with the ability to buy AppleCare up until just days ago. The iPad was sold as new up until a little over a year ago, so theres people who will still have AppleCare on those devices until next year and refurb buyers who bought AppleCare until about two years from now.

This isn't the first time Apple has forced obsolesce and prematurely cut off support for a device. Look at the iPhone 3G. Sold as new until Summer 2010 and had support cut off Fall 2010, leaving people in two year contracts with around a year and a half left on that contract with absolutely no support of any kind.

MacDownunder
Jul 17, 2012, 07:03 PM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old


And others like myself still use it!:eek:

Get over yourself and accept that these are PHONES first and foremost and if it still makes calls and gets all the other internet based stuff and apps as well albeit slower than your phone who cares

I like that Apple are planning to support the 3GS I just wish that they'd have given the same forethought to Snow Leopard and iCloud:rolleyes:

----------

Yup... and it's not about the cost. I'll happily pay apple to enable iCloud in Snow Leopard for $50.

Apple? Money's on the table.

It's about all the Apps it makes incompatible least of all ability to run PPC Apps. I had a great Bar Code plug in for Illustrator that needed CS2 (I have latter versions of CS for general work), however Lion broke CS2 and the Barcode Plugin manufacturer has gone way of DoDo Decent solutions are expensive but cheaper solutions are little limited, though some show promise.

Lancer
Jul 17, 2012, 07:10 PM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old

Not all of use run to our phone company the day our contract it up, that said I'll be looking at getting the next iPhone if I can afford it. I'm not one to buy them outright and would rather put that money towards a faster iMac.

haruhiko
Jul 17, 2012, 07:11 PM
Wait wha-? I don't mean this in an insulting way but those saying iOS6 (or 5) will run fine on the 3GS and the iPad 1's performance on iOS5 is great obviously has had not experienced any of the newer devices in both the iOS and Android camps.

My iPad 1 on iOS5 vs 4: Constant page refreshes between tabs, lots of browser crashes due to memory, having to constantly use the task switcher to kill off apps or large pages will not load completely, HTML5 videos causing the browser to crash, etc. Switching to the new iPad with its 512MB (or was it 1GB) RAM was a MASSIVE difference.

My 3GS on iOS5 vs 4: Lag when typing on the keyboard. Very slow responses from apps like Downcast. Lag when navigating menus unless I kill off apps manually. Extremely poor performance with the new Podcast app though I think this is more of an application issue than 3GS performance. Other apps responding slowly when the music player is playing.

My 2010 MBA (not really iOS but...): Lost its instant on capability after switching to OSX Lion. Well, from near 0s to ~5-7s startup :\

Sorry but I do not see how upgrading to iOS6 will help in any way and if there is one thing that I've learned from owning Apple products, it is never to upgrade the OS too much. Apple after all is a hardware company and it is in their best interest to make customers upgrade hence the planned obsolescence with their OS updates.

As for me, I am just waiting for the next best iPhone to come out in October or if it is not compelling enough, maybe the GNex with Jelly Bean. Now THAT is a sweet OS with Google Now and Maps.
The New iPad (2012) has 1GB of RAM.

Baklava
Jul 17, 2012, 08:04 PM
iOS 6 compatible with iPhone 3Gs.
iCloud incompatible with Snow Leopard.

Nothing to say. :D

software : hardware

software : software

Terrible analogy.

You're comparing OS compatbility with devices against feature compatbility with OSes. That's like complaining you can't use Siri in iOS 4. I'm not defending Apple's device choices, I'm just pointing out it's a false comparison.


It was not a comparison. I was trying to point out how strange Apple's priorities in my opinion are. A 2009 released iPhone 3Gs is able to run the latest mobile OS of Apple while Snow Leopard, which is for most people still the best OS so far (including me), is missing iCloud support, even after Apple forced every MobileMe user to iCloud. And what disappoints me even more is that MS Vista supports it. Indeed, iCloud support in Snow Leopard could be possible and delivered via an update, but Apple doesn't do it and I don't get the reason.

andrewlgm
Jul 17, 2012, 08:06 PM
My iPad 1 32GB-WiFi was the first and last iPad I will ever buy. Updating it to iOS 5 pretty much made it a worthless device. Safari would crash every time I used it, and no more than 1 tab could be opened. Music app would never work. And no, this is not an exaggeration. I sold the iPad at a great loss, considering the $650+$200 in accessories, and gave up IPADS and future IPHONES FOR LIFE.

A lot of people are still waiting on a fix to their iPad 1's performance, and not only has apple ignored these people, they have decided to kill a device that is only 2 years old. Apple's hardware is the minimal bare to run the current version of the software being released, thus forcing updates the next cycle. When the iPad 1 was out with 256MB of RAM, android tablets were coming out with 1GB. It took 3 iterations of the iPad to reach 1GB. 5 iPhone iterations to reach 1GB ram. Not only is apple doing this with IOS, but also with Mac OS X by dropping support from macs that are only 3 years old.

I find it hard to drop Mac OS X for windows, especially with devs finding ways to install Mountain Lion on older hardware, but giving up IOS is a no brainer.

StyxMaker
Jul 17, 2012, 08:33 PM
I will second that.

I passed my first gen iPad on to one of my sisters, but it's still running fine on iOS5.

twcbc
Jul 17, 2012, 08:56 PM
Drop 3GS will make adapt rate of iOS6 looks like Android4.x. That's reason why Apple give 3GS very limited iOS6 feature. IMO, it's a tricky marketing move to compare adapt rate between iOS and Android, since not all iOS device have full feature of iOS. i-device might as fragmentation as Android has on second thought.

Apple don't mock windows pc for fragmentation. So they won't mind to drop OSX support of 3years old Mac.

Apple is getting bigger and stronger as company nowadays. They do thing way different from many years ago when they were still trying to please their customers. That's somehow painful. But we have to face it, not defend it.

gregorypierce
Jul 17, 2012, 09:14 PM
Okay... so why does 3GS get support in iOS6 and iPad gen 1 gets nothing? That's just silly as the iPad can take on the 3GS fairly handily from a performance perspective.

terminatorp
Jul 17, 2012, 10:29 PM
Many times this has been mentioned, but the iPad isn't PROPORTIONALLY as powerful as the 3GS. Sure, it's got a 1 ghz processor, but it's got the same graphics card as the 3GS pushing more than quadruple the pixels. 256 mb of ram makes the situation worse. For example, for Infinity Blade 1, the developer had to actually reduce the graphical intensity of the game to tailor it to fit the iPad 1, so then it would stop crashing and lagging due to memory contraints. The 3GS and the iPhone 4 enjoyed the same degree of graphical content on the other hand. (In my experience, the iPhone 4 often tended to have slower framerates at times).

iOS 5 was slow on the iPad. It was too RAM intensive, and often left the idling available ram at a mere 70-80 mb available for apps during idling. The 3GS on the other hand has up to 140 mb of ram free while idling. Since iPad apps take more ram on the average, the iPad is much more prone to crashing than the 3GS.

Overall, the 3GS, although older, is actually more capable of pushing it's own weight than the iPad. Due to that, it's much more future proof.

MaxHedrm
Jul 17, 2012, 10:46 PM
I love that the image has a blank spot for the iPhone 5 (or whatever they call it).

HangmanSwingset
Jul 18, 2012, 12:28 AM
Windows 98 is 14 years old! And so long as you meet the minimum hardware requirements, you can install Win 7 on any hardware. It's a pure hardware restriction, not a marketing decision.

That was kind of my point. Generally, older hardware can POTENTIALLY run newer operating systems, but would you really want to put Windows 7 on an ancient machine? Sure, it might work if you get the 1GB of RAM and a fast enough processor (idr what the minimum requirement was), but when it comes down to it, is it more worth upgrading software or hardware?
Plus the guy was saying why can't they just update to the newest iOS, but strip away features until the device can support it enough. At that point, it's not even worth the upgrade. If you stripped away newer features from iOS 5 and put it on a 3G, chances are you'd just have iOS 4 with 'iOS 5' stamped on it. Same with iOS6.

The Smyrk
Jul 18, 2012, 12:35 AM
I like how they are leaving space for the next iPhone in their graphic

faroZ06
Jul 18, 2012, 01:12 AM
Yup... and it's not about the cost. I'll happily pay apple to enable iCloud in Snow Leopard for $50.

Apple? Money's on the table.

Same. Or I'd pay for Rosetta in Lion (preferably). Actually, Lion is supported by fewer Macs than Snow Leopard, so you have to consider that too.

The retarded part is that Windows has more iCloud support than Snow Leopard in a couple of ways. Clearly, Apple is taking extra advantage of their current users, pushing them near the tolerance limit. I guess it's way better to deal with Apple pushing me than having to deal with trash from Microsoft and others.

----------

It's a very low-cost way to get people into Apple's ecosystem. The 3GS is $0.99 on AT&T. Not a bad deal for those wanting a decent smartphone with tons of apps and ease-of-use.

It's actually a great deal. Really, the iPhone 1 is already overkill for a cellphone.

Oldfash33
Jul 18, 2012, 01:28 AM
As an iPad 1Gen owner I can now finally put the last nail on the iPad coffin for me. That was the first and the last time Apple got 800€ from me for an iPad. There poor support on that premium product, while cheaper hardware gets the same support just because it still is a money maker for them is just ridiculous!
What device will you be going with since apple is outta the picture for you now??

GreatDrok
Jul 18, 2012, 01:31 AM
My iPad 1 32GB-WiFi was the first and last iPad I will ever buy. Updating it to iOS 5 pretty much made it a worthless device. Safari would crash every time I used it, and no more than 1 tab could be opened. Music app would never work. And no, this is not an exaggeration. I sold the iPad at a great loss, considering the $650+$200 in accessories, and gave up IPADS and future IPHONES FOR LIFE..

I'm still using my 1st gen 16GB Wifi iPad every day. It is running iOS 5 just fine. It does get slow and choppy if I fill it up but currently I have about 1.7GB free and I also kill off apps I'm not using just to keep the load low. It works fine, and I will continue to use it for a while yet. Some users have found that wiping and restoring helps with performance so you might want to try that

I expected to get three years use out of it and am two years in so at some point in the next year or so I'll likely upgrade. I'm not happy I won't be getting iOS6 but I'll deal with it. The iPad still does plenty of things very well such as video streaming, email, browsing and so on. Safari works well but can crash on JavaScript heavy sites sometimes so if a site uses a lot of JavaScript I don't tend to go there. The iPad is what it is and I don't regret buying it. I will probably see what comes out next year though since we have an iPad 3 in the office and it doesn't feel dramatically quicker than my original and I can't usually see a difference in the screen.

vmistery
Jul 18, 2012, 02:18 AM
Supporting the 3GS is great news, It really does show up other manufacturers that it really is not on to still sell a device which you have no intention of ever upgrading. Fewer, better devices for different target markets would give them less to support. Or following Apple. Samsung could have the S1 as the budget phone, S2 as the mid phone and the S3 as the high end phone for example then possibly a smaller range too instead of all the junk they shove out like the Europa!

Another part of the problem is though they still see a sale as the last time they will make money off a user / device until they sell them the next version. Apple is all about the ecosystem - sell them apps, music etc and realise they will upgrade when they can afford to do so, in the mean time they spend money anywya. RIM really have no excuse for not taking this on board, Manufacturers that use Android or Windows Phone have a harder time but it wouldn't be too hard to innovate a bit, add some sort of music streaming or video stores perhaps. Once they have people using these then upgrading the OS becomes desirable for them so they can continue flogging people stuff.

jmgregory1
Jul 18, 2012, 07:12 AM
Why shouldn't people complain? The iPad was essentially marketed as a computer. It was priced the same as a computer, and in fact cost more than my desktop that is still faster than the current Mac Pro in many ways. People who bought and still own an iPad have every right to expect and demand the same level of support as a computer, seeing as how it cost as much as one.

When I buy or build a computer, I expect at least half a decade of support for it and thats generally what I get.

Seeing as how the iPad cost more than my desktop that is more capable than the Mac Pro in some ways, I should at least get 4-5 years worth of support for it. It doesn't need to be "new features" (because, let's be honest here, iOS 6 is more like 5.2), but it should receive security updates and bug fixes. At least an update to fix the awful UI in the "Music" app.

It's not fair at all that a device that cost as much or more than significantly more capable computers only receives two years of support. Even worse is that Apple sold the original iPad refurbished with the ability to buy AppleCare up until just days ago. The iPad was sold as new up until a little over a year ago, so theres people who will still have AppleCare on those devices until next year and refurb buyers who bought AppleCare until about two years from now.

This isn't the first time Apple has forced obsolesce and prematurely cut off support for a device. Look at the iPhone 3G. Sold as new until Summer 2010 and had support cut off Fall 2010, leaving people in two year contracts with around a year and a half left on that contract with absolutely no support of any kind.

Unfortunately, I think your expectations are just a little bit unreasonable AND it seams that you are confusing updates to the OS with operability. I have a Mac Pro, G5 tower circa 2006 that runs just fine using Snow Leopard. No, it can't sync to my iPhone anymore and it's not going to do iCloud, but I'm not going to cry to Apple that they've abandoned me and my Mac Pro. And as we've all known, the iPad 1, as great as it was - groundbreaking even, did not run Safari well and from the beginning other features were not exactly smooth (like what you see with the 2 or 3). So again, your expectation is that your 2 year old iPad should do the same things the new 3 does? Do you expect the 720p HDTV you bought 2 years ago to offer 1080p and 3D today, because it's just 2 years old (not to mention the similar model today costs the same or less even though it adds more features)? I call bull on thinking like this.

I understand 2 years seams like a short time for a full OS refresh that you can't enjoy on your iPad 1, but the iPad is not a Mac Pro, regardless of whether you think it runs faster (in some cases) than the Pro. And given Apple brought the iPad to market, clearly not knowing where it was going to go and what changes they'd be making based upon new technology, getting 2 years before you can't upgrade the OS seams absolutely reasonable to me.

Cantisama
Jul 18, 2012, 07:40 AM
3GS support but not iPad 1, even though iPad 1 specs >= 3GS specs... makes a lot of sense >_>

D-Dave
Jul 18, 2012, 08:19 AM
whats the point of suporting the 3GS the tech is super old
I guess the point is that apple still sells the 3GS...:)

oklaonion
Jul 18, 2012, 08:30 AM
My iPad 1 runs iOS 5 well, if not perfectly. I did notice a slowdown from 4 to 5. It is a bit disappointing though that they cannot get 6 to run on it - I don't plan on upgrading my iPad for years if I can help it.

AlexJaye
Jul 18, 2012, 09:04 AM
Then you're doing something wrong. My iPad 1st gen runs the latest iOS 5.x smoothly.

That's very helpful.

monkeybongo
Jul 18, 2012, 10:01 AM
iPad 1 is still very usable and I own all the generations iPads (1,2,3).

I don't hesitate to use the iPad 1 if it's closest to me. The only issue is if you need more than 2 tabs in Safari but it's smooth and runs all the apps I need.

It definitely isn't the sh*tstorm for the iPhone 3G ... that was horribly slow.

goodcow
Jul 18, 2012, 11:03 AM
Really? So what does the 3GS run... this is just twoddle

The 3GS isn't pushing nearly as many pixels as the iPad 1.

Galatian
Jul 18, 2012, 11:14 AM
What device will you be going with since apple is outta the picture for you now??

None...I'm not done with Apple and I really enjoy my new 2012 MacBook Air. I can see and feel the 1099€ I spent on the 13" version when it comes to power, usability, future proveness and build quality. When I look at the tablet market including the iPad I just don't see ANY comparable price-performance ratio...not even close. In retrospect any tablet above 400-500€ is just overpriced when you compare it to notebooks. But you only get 16 GB Flash and Wifi only with Apple. Want that 3G modem that maybe costs 5$? you have to fork out 120€ extra, you want double or quadruple flash (which cost like 10-15$?) you'll have to fork another 100-200€. No SD-Slot or any kind of removable memory seriously hinders you in that decision as well. Now you also see that Apple like to drop support for no other reason then more profit...Why should I or anybody else fork out more money for this overpriced toy?

PracticalMac
Jul 18, 2012, 11:57 AM
. IF they decide to add anything from it they will restrict it to only the most basic functions like the VIP mail. No turn by turn, no 3d maps, etc. You still won't be able to run iMovie, iPhoto etc on it. Given how few features they would be putting in it seems rather pointless to do anything at all. So they aren't.
.

Restrict it is fine, as did with 3GS.
I am not wanting full iOS 6 support, just the basics, including FaceBook integration.

One of the things I point out to my friends is Apple have longer useful life then competing products.
Yes, Android has almost no upgrade paths, squeezing once more cycle out for iPad 1, like 3GS, will stick it to the Android crowed.

I myself don't have iPad 1 (3ed Gen), but still feel this is dropping is premature, especially since it was less then 2 years Apple stopped selling it.

----------

Why there is no support?

My theory is this. To compete with lower cost Androids both in phones and pads, Apple is keeping the support on the last generation before the resolution bump.

It will be expected to see the iPad 2 and 3GS still in production, they represent lower production costs since the LCD panels they use(which in pair with the flash memory are the most costly components) are old tech, which is cheaper.

That way Apple keeps the profits high while having a cheaper model to compete with low end models from other makers. At the same time the lower price makes it accessible to a broader audience with less money to spend.

Some 30 million iPad 1's are floating around, which is something developers look at when making apps. No iOS 6 for 1st effectively removes them from potential App sales.

BaldiMac
Jul 18, 2012, 02:02 PM
Sad part is it is not fud. It just a cold hard reality.

Please explain how your claim that "smart mail boxes no on the 3GS" is "cold hard reality" in view of the topic of this thread.

There are 100% pure greed reasons in Apples blocks.

The other part is again a fact. People who say other wise really have very poor understanding of how Android works. Now yeah I agree the fact that the updates take for ever and are spotty at best is crap but at the same token to get updates to most of the core apps does not require an update to the entire OS.

Maps, navigation ,search ect are all done separately.

Your opinion and pulled-out-of-your-rear assumptions are fact? Good to know. I disagree.

I understand that "system" apps are individually upgradeable. I just think you are rationalizing when you are dismissing an OS upgrade as "not as critical" as having Siri and Apple-designed navigation. Why bother upgrading Android at all?

Apparently fragmentation in Android is bad, but engineered obsolescence, forcing users to use different OS’s is perfectly fine.

All fragmentation is not the same. Android's fragmentation is as a development platform. iOS fragmentation is about a couple consumer features for the most part. These are completely separate issues.

Apple has woeful support for old hardware. Unless you have their latest hardware; phones, iPods, iPads or computers, you just cannot run the latest software.

Woeful support? They are far from perfect, but that doesn't change the fact that they are better than anyone else in the industry.

BC2009
Jul 18, 2012, 02:14 PM
LOL, since when did the iPhone 4 have "much improved graphics" over the 3GS?
The 3GS outperforms the 4 in graphics in nearly every benchmark. Check out the pawa benchmark comparison on YouTube.

Already corrected myself in a followup.

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Wait wha-? I don't mean this in an insulting way but those saying iOS6 (or 5) will run fine on the 3GS and the iPad 1's performance on iOS5 is great obviously has had not experienced any of the newer devices in both the iOS and Android camps.

My iPad 1 on iOS5 vs 4: Constant page refreshes between tabs, lots of browser crashes due to memory, having to constantly use the task switcher to kill off apps or large pages will not load completely, HTML5 videos causing the browser to crash, etc. Switching to the new iPad with its 512MB (or was it 1GB) RAM was a MASSIVE difference.

My 3GS on iOS5 vs 4: Lag when typing on the keyboard. Very slow responses from apps like Downcast. Lag when navigating menus unless I kill off apps manually. Extremely poor performance with the new Podcast app though I think this is more of an application issue than 3GS performance. Other apps responding slowly when the music player is playing.

My 2010 MBA (not really iOS but...): Lost its instant on capability after switching to OSX Lion. Well, from near 0s to ~5-7s startup :\

Sorry but I do not see how upgrading to iOS6 will help in any way and if there is one thing that I've learned from owning Apple products, it is never to upgrade the OS too much. Apple after all is a hardware company and it is in their best interest to make customers upgrade hence the planned obsolescence with their OS updates.

As for me, I am just waiting for the next best iPhone to come out in October or if it is not compelling enough, maybe the GNex with Jelly Bean. Now THAT is a sweet OS with Google Now and Maps.

I actually thought my 3GS struggled with iOS 4 and seriously improved with iOS 5, odd that you had the opposite experience. I must admit that I am a little weary of Apple doing their own Maps in iOS 6. I am hoping it took so long because they knew they could not degrade how maps performed and they got it right. Jelly Bean looks nice, but nothing significant enough to get me to switch. It looks like Google and Apple are just trading off on when they will come out with features. Mobile operating systems have matured and now we are in a phase of iteration. To get me to give up the Apple software and accessory ecosystem, Google would have to come up with something significantly better. Its possible, but Windows had to get really bad and Macs had to improve a lot to get me to finally switch back to Mac from Windows in 2009. Switching platforms is not easy unless your only apps are the built-in ones.

andrewlgm
Jul 19, 2012, 03:25 AM
Unfortunately, I think your expectations are just a little bit unreasonable AND it seams that you are confusing updates to the OS with operability. I have a Mac Pro, G5 tower circa 2006 that runs just fine using Snow Leopard. No, it can't sync to my iPhone anymore and it's not going to do iCloud, but I'm not going to cry to Apple that they've abandoned me and my Mac Pro. And as we've all known, the iPad 1, as great as it was - groundbreaking even, did not run Safari well and from the beginning other features were not exactly smooth (like what you see with the 2 or 3). So again, your expectation is that your 2 year old iPad should do the same things the new 3 does? Do you expect the 720p HDTV you bought 2 years ago to offer 1080p and 3D today, because it's just 2 years old (not to mention the similar model today costs the same or less even though it adds more features)? I call bull on thinking like this.

I understand 2 years seams like a short time for a full OS refresh that you can't enjoy on your iPad 1, but the iPad is not a Mac Pro, regardless of whether you think it runs faster (in some cases) than the Pro. And given Apple brought the iPad to market, clearly not knowing where it was going to go and what changes they'd be making based upon new technology, getting 2 years before you can't upgrade the OS seams absolutely reasonable to me.

I disagree with you on so many points, and because of this disagreement I have given up iOS use for good. The drop of support over 2 years for a device such as a phone is understandable because smartphones tend to break down in 2 years due to use or carelessness, most people are on a 2-year plan, etc, so planned obsolescence because of these reasons and the production of newer devices are expected. But an iPad is not a phone. Buying a tablet COMPUTER that costs $450+ to $1000+ and having support dropped after 2 years is in all accounts unacceptable. And I'm not complaining just because of software advances - some cool improvisations that require improved hardware - but because of security updates. There's no hardware reason why Snow Leopard MacBooks can't have iCloud. There's no reason why iPad 1 can't have AirPlay, and there's no reason why iPhone 3GS, 4 and both earlier iPads can't have Siri as we have seen them perform once jailbroken. I was terribly annoyed at these decisions by apple, but understood their game - business is to make money - take it or leave it. But what are we to take from a device released in 2010 that cost a substantial amount of money that is now considered pretty much a brick and no longer receives the FUN and NECESSARY updates to run properly? You can google "iPad 1 performance problems" since the last update almost a year ago and confirm that these people were "abandoned" by apple since the last update, and to find out no cure is coming and that no amount of IOS reloading, tweaking, etc, fixes the crashing and lagging problems is even more disturbing. I was one of the users badly affected with an iPad 1 that pretty much became unresponsive after ios5. The update seemed to affect some iPads worse than others for some unknown reason.

We're now seeing people with 3 year old MacBooks and Mac pros not being updated to mountain lion. My white polycarbonate MacBook released in 2009 which I bought in 2010 a few weeks before the refresh - unknowingly might I add as it was my first apple purchase - just made the cut to the latest OS. Am I to take that 2013 will be its last year of support? If I want to continue to use an up-to-date OS I'll have to install whatever OS windows or Linux has out there... Again unacceptable. 3 years of use for a Mac is unacceptable and 1.5 years of support for an iPad is also. The iPad may be hardware limited and excuses "may" make the cut, but for full fledged computers to be dropped in a 3 year cycle is enough reason to drop support for a company - even one as good as apple.

nitro912gr
Jul 19, 2012, 05:16 AM
How about apple to talk with the carriers to lower the freaking price of 3GS as well?

Or sell it directly to the customers?

I mean here they ask 400 for a device that old... unlocked ok, but there is no cheaper locked option.

mosx
Jul 19, 2012, 05:24 PM
Unfortunately, I think your expectations are just a little bit unreasonable AND it seams that you are confusing updates to the OS with operability. I have a Mac Pro, G5 tower circa 2006 that runs just fine using Snow Leopard.

No "Mac Pro" had a PPC G5. You either had a PowerMac or Mac Pro with an Intel processor. If its a Mac Pro then Lion should run on it. If its a PowerMac then you're running Leopard, not Snow Leopard.

No, it can't sync to my iPhone anymore and it's not going to do iCloud, but I'm not going to cry to Apple that they've abandoned me and my Mac Pro.

As much as Mac Pros cost, Apple should support the hardware for the majority of a decade. Mac Pros are significantly overpriced compared to equal PCs and should carry a minimum of 7-8 years of support.

As I said, the iPad cost more than significantly more capable computers at the time of release. It was advertised as a "computer" and virtually everyone counts iPads as "computer sales". Therefore, it should be treated as such. With a minimum of 4-5 years of support.

And as we've all known, the iPad 1, as great as it was - groundbreaking even, did not run Safari well and from the beginning other features were not exactly smooth (like what you see with the 2 or 3)

Safari runs fine for me on my original iPad. The problem for me is my internet service. I have the choice of FTTH or very high speed cable. On a PC (or Mac) websites open instantly. Seriously, near instant page rendering. The original iPad and now the new iPad are all significantly slower at browsing the web than either my desktop PC or my 4 year old unibody MacBook. So I don't understand this "Safari doesn't run good" argument because, to me and on my home internet connection, all iPads are slow as snails at page rendering.

So again, your expectation is that your 2 year old iPad should do the same things the new 3 does? Do you expect the 720p HDTV you bought 2 years ago to offer 1080p and 3D today, because it's just 2 years old (not to mention the similar model today costs the same or less even though it adds more features)? I call bull on thinking like this.

Theres quite a few things wrong with your argument there. First of, when the original iPhone was being introduced at MacWorld, Jobs made a point that the reason for going with a touchscreen only device was so that if new features were thought up they could be pushed out via software rather than hardware updates.

Second, nobody is asking for the original iPad to be able to do all of the things the new iPad can. You can't magically add cameras or RAM. What we're asking for is continued software support. Theres no reason for us to be locked out of security fixes or minor software improvements. Especially when the older and weaker iPhone 3GS is still being supported and getting those minor improvements.

The other issue with no more new releases for the iPad is the fact that as apps get updated, even if they don't require features of the new OS, they'll still look for that OS revision number and refuse to install or run based on that, even if they're otherwise perfectly capable of running on the hardware. So iPad apps that I paid money for will eventually no longer run on my original iPad just because it has an older version of the OS, even though the hardware is perfectly capable of it.

Basically, what Apple is doing is saying if you want to continue using all of those apps you paid money for, you need to go and buy the newest hardware or end up losing access to those apps and, in turn, the money you spent on them.

I understand 2 years seams like a short time for a full OS refresh that you can't enjoy on your iPad 1, but the iPad is not a Mac Pro, regardless of whether you think it runs faster (in some cases) than the Pro.

Hah never did I say that. I did say that the iPad cost more than my desktop computer, which is still faster in many ways than the currently shipping Mac Pros. Yet my desktop is essentially guaranteed to receive support from the various hardware manufacturers responsible for the parts in it for at least half a decade from purchase. Hell, I have a TV tuner I bought 8 years ago that still receives driver updates. Nvidia still updates GPU drivers for GPUs that are pushing the better portion of a decade old. Yet Apple can't continue release at least security fixes and minor feature improvements for something that cost me $658 barely two years ago?

And given Apple brought the iPad to market, clearly not knowing where it was going to go and what changes they'd be making based upon new technology, getting 2 years before you can't upgrade the OS seams absolutely reasonable to me.

Whether or not Apple knew how successful (or not) the iPad would be, thats no excuse for them to charge more than a significantly more powerful computer and then toss support for it barely two years after release.

Theres other things that factor into this as well. When the iPhone 4 was announced, Jobs made the comment that the iPhone 4 was in development for a full year before the original iPad announcement. That means that Apple had plenty of time to integrate cameras into the original iPad, bump it up to 512MB of RAM instead of 256, use the iPhone 4's home button instead of the 3GS home button, etc. But they didn't. They basically gave us first adopters the shaft. Even worse was the fact that they shipped it with iOS 3.2, when it should have had 4.0 from the start. Then we had to wait 6 months after the iPad's release to finally get 4.2. Basically, those of us who have owned an original iPad from the start have only had a usable device for a year and a half, since it was essentially useless with 3.2. Then they tell us to piss off after that amount of time.

Apple certainly lost me as an iPad customer. I was one of those people who was first with an iPad everywhere I went. I was one of those people who sold people on iPads and, like many first adopters, is responsible for the success of the iPad as it is today. Now, however, I tell people who Apple dropped support for such an expensive device so quickly. I point out how quickly they drop support for their computers, killing support for some that cost more than $1,000 only a few years after they were released when they still run Windows 7 perfectly and will probably even run Windows 8 with the same drivers. Its kind of funny now that I think about it. A lot of those computers Apple won't support with Mountain Lion will probably run Windows 8 just fine. Apple won't let you have the latest and greatest of their own software but Microsoft will be more than happy to let you run their software. Anyway, back to my original point, I think all of the people who bought an original iPad and all of those who were responsible for the success of the iPad need to point out what Apple has done as far as support goes and essentially saying our hundreds of dollars mean nothing. We made the iPad successful and we can undo that success.

coolstar
Aug 9, 2012, 03:04 PM
What about iPod touch 3G? It runs as fast as the 3GS, and in some cases, faster than it...