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dba415
Jul 17, 2012, 03:02 PM
Are they just trying to be annoying and lame on purpose?

A major OS has no release date other than July, except I guarantee that Apple already knows when they plan on releasing and have known for a while now, and they refuse to publicly reveal it



MacDawg
Jul 17, 2012, 03:06 PM
I can't imagine why knowing a date will really make any difference to me
I will just pick it up when it comes out

bp1000
Jul 17, 2012, 03:08 PM
Remember the public outcry when the first beta of IOS 6 was released after the developer conference.

Apple probably hold back on announcing the release date too early to ensure they have nailed it and all the bugs they know of are stamped out.

Last thing they want is mass disappointment as that reflects in their stocks and shares.

dba415
Jul 17, 2012, 03:12 PM
I can't imagine why knowing a date will really make any difference to me
I will just pick it up when it comes out
Because I am currently away from home working, I plan on going home but would like to schedule it so I can also install ml while I am at home. I have software and stuff at home that I need to get (I'm doing a clean install). It's annoying when you can't even plan around it. I also need to buy bus tix

linuxcooldude
Jul 17, 2012, 03:22 PM
You can easily plan around it once it gets released. Seems like your just impatient to wait for it. Apples not going to work around your schedule.

TallGuyGT
Jul 17, 2012, 03:23 PM
Plan on August first and you're covered! ;)

pdjudd
Jul 17, 2012, 04:38 PM
When lion's availability was announced it was one day before it was actually sold - and it was announced during their conference call. Apple isn't going to do anything until then at the very least - and thats next week.

They will announce it when they are good and ready - right before it sells.

dba415
Jul 17, 2012, 04:45 PM
Plan on August first and you're covered! ;)

you mean on a Wednesday? In the middle of the weeK/

:rolleyes:

maflynn
Jul 17, 2012, 04:47 PM
Given that's its electronic only, I don't see this being a problem. Just upgrade/download when its available. Its no like you need to wait in line to buy a copy

ivnj
Jul 17, 2012, 04:55 PM
Cuz we need to know. If its going to be july 2012 I can wait. But if it july 3012 I'm not wasting my breath. So its good to know.

trustme
Jul 17, 2012, 05:51 PM
I can't imagine why knowing a date will really make any difference to me
I will just pick it up when it comes out

Oh so people shouldn't worry about the date OS X comes out but everyone is going ape **** about what the next iPhone will be called. Can't they just say "We'll just see what it's called when it comes out"?

jihuiwen
Jul 17, 2012, 05:59 PM
They can. They just chose not to.

MacDawg
Jul 17, 2012, 06:01 PM
Oh so people shouldn't worry about the date OS X comes out but everyone is going ape **** about what the next iPhone will be called. Can't they just say "We'll just see what it's called when it comes out"?

Yep, that's what I'm gonna do
I don't care what they call it myself

dukebound85
Jul 17, 2012, 06:03 PM
Yep, that's what I'm gonna do
I don't care what they call it myself

I bet it will be just "iphone"

The numbering is ggetting out of hand

As for ML, I hope it's by the weekend. Low chances I know

Krazy Bill
Jul 17, 2012, 06:07 PM
If people knew the exact day it was going to be released, a lot of people would delay the purchase of their new mac. Not to mention, Lion sales would grind to a halt.

duh.

Peace
Jul 17, 2012, 06:07 PM
Yep, that's what I'm gonna do
I don't care what they call it myself

I agree. I'm not even getting the iPhone ( insert new name ).

Mountain Lion's release date announcement will be June 24th by Tim Cook during the quarterly earnings call. He will say it is available in the Mac App Store the next day.

That would be after 1AM June 25th. Cupertino time.

arashb
Jul 17, 2012, 06:08 PM
you mean on a Wednesday? In the middle of the weeK/

:rolleyes:

Pretty sure he means it will be out in July for sure, so plan on coming back on August 1st and it will be a sure thing that it's out :rolleyes:

rdowns
Jul 17, 2012, 06:09 PM
Why can't people deal with how Apple chooses to do business?

kodeman53
Jul 17, 2012, 06:10 PM
Because I am currently away from home working, I plan on going home but would like to schedule it so I can also install ml while I am at home. I have software and stuff at home that I need to get (I'm doing a clean install). It's annoying when you can't even plan around it. I also need to buy bus tix
And if you miss this one window of opportunity you wont ever be able to install ML?

LostSoul80
Jul 17, 2012, 06:11 PM
Why should Apple tell you a date in advance? That way a delay would create confusion, if something goes wrong with anything.

Eddyala
Jul 17, 2012, 06:26 PM
I think that everyone is freaking out or going ape about too many not so important things. I mean, come on, wouldn't it be better if no one know anything about when the new OS ML is coming out? Or what the new iPhone
will be called? Who gives a ****?! I know that I don't and most Mac OS users
feel the same as I do even if they won't admit to it. Most people enjoy being
surprised,right? Well, either way, lets all start to act more real because the old
Blessed Apple has been under a different mind set since the beloved Steve Jobs
passed away. I'm hoping that the newer brain will take the Apple by the core
and do things different, instead of just Think different.

dissdnt
Jul 17, 2012, 06:47 PM
25th

ixodes
Jul 17, 2012, 06:57 PM
Apple is no different than any other manufacturer. They have their own policies and procedures that they follow exactly.

They do things the way they feel are in the best interest of the company, to maintain a competitive edge and to position themselves for success.

It's not as though something has changed. Apple has always operated this way.

Present day performance metrics prove that Apple has the right combination for tremendous success.

Get into acceptance and you won't be stressed.

Patience will serve you well.

Nimoy
Jul 17, 2012, 09:21 PM
They probably just want to keep their options open as much as possible. The cost of specifying a date and getting it wrong (ebarassment, public anger, losing customer trust) outweighs the benefit of setting a date and getting it right.

pdjudd
Jul 17, 2012, 09:32 PM
That goes double during the period before the investor call which is coming up.

dba415
Jul 17, 2012, 11:55 PM
Pretty sure he means it will be out in July for sure, so plan on coming back on August 1st and it will be a sure thing that it's out :rolleyes:

if i planned on going home on august 1st I would be going home on a Wednesday.

As of now I am going home on the 27th of july if apple does some witchery and releases on july 31 or something I'm going to be pissed.

----------

And if you miss this one window of opportunity you wont ever be able to install ML?

I want to install it as soon as possible

WhackyNinja
Jul 18, 2012, 12:38 AM
Patience young grasshoppers. Good come for those who wait. For like a week :D

kodeman53
Jul 18, 2012, 03:11 AM
if i planned on going home on august 1st I would be going home on a Wednesday.

As of now I am going home on the 27th of july if apple does some witchery and releases on july 31 or something I'm going to be pissed.

----------



I want to install it as soon as possible

I'm sure if you let Apple know about your want (not need) to install ML ASAP, they will schedule their announcement to fit your schedule. Also, if it's this important to you, join the Mac developer programs and install GM now.

Sylon
Jul 18, 2012, 03:46 AM
For something like Moutain Lion, which only costs $20, its not that big a deal. Sure its annoying not knowing, but whatever, you'll get over it.

But release dates for stuff like the iPhone and iPad, Macs, etc, it would be nice to get a release date ahead of time. Mainly because it would be nice to have time to save up the funds for it. However, usually for hardware sales, Apple releases them during a conference or something, so you can get a good idea what the date will be.

Apple never seems to just pick a random date in the middle of the week to release something. They always seem to do it around a conference, meeting, an event or something.

RMXO
Jul 19, 2012, 02:16 AM
If you can't get your hands on the GM, the wait is well worth it.

Nozuka
Jul 19, 2012, 03:18 AM
they are waiting for the magic dust to replenish and its quite unpredictable.

davidgnomo
Jul 19, 2012, 04:17 AM
Plan on August first and you're covered! ;)

Plan on July 31 and you're covered ! :D

quietstormSD
Jul 19, 2012, 04:57 AM
It is silly. They should just announce a date and be done with it. Microsoft announces their release date of their OS months before they release it. Apple is just getting silly with their whole secrecy crap. But hey, it's working. I'm all pins and needles on when the newest Mac OS is coming out. But Apple needs to be careful because the people that are adopting their products are no longer just their loyal fan boys that will buy Apple regardless of what they do. They are taking on a larger segment of a discerning consumer

Sylon
Jul 19, 2012, 05:21 AM
If the date really is set for the 25th as the rumors state, then we have less than a week left to wait folks.

drivebass
Jul 19, 2012, 07:15 AM
How many times have you visited Apple's website to check if ML is released since the generic announcement for July? If people knew the exact date they wouldn't visit that often. And that new Retina MacBooks are a temptation. So this strategy sells more. It's a corporation with fans so they build their marketing with that in mind also. They sell anticipation, we are their publicity.:)

NotYoMac
Jul 19, 2012, 07:46 AM
Look at this whole thread... Hence the reason no date given for release! It spurs the hype amongst Mac users, gets people talking and excited.. Thousands upon thousands of posts over their product by those avid Mac users dying to get hands on release. Lol

The search engines love it, it goes viral on the net. WHAM, instant advertisement around the clock! No cost to apple!!

Just my thought as to why they do not post a date.. I could be totally wrong on my hypothesis and if history serves me right, I probably am ROFL..

Just thought I would throw my 1 & a half cents out there.. :)

noisycats
Jul 19, 2012, 07:52 AM
Are they just trying to be annoying and lame on purpose?



Yes, I think you nailed it. Most successful multi-national corporations strive to be both annoying and lame, preferably at the same time.

Blipp
Jul 19, 2012, 08:43 AM
you mean on a Wednesday? In the middle of the weeK/

:rolleyes:

I don't understand your requirement that you MUST have it the day it comes out. Would it be such a bad thing to plan for a time a week or two after the expected release to go home and do your upgrade? Hell, plan for mid-August and you might hit the inevitable 10.8.1 release and get an overall more stable package from day one.

MisterMe
Jul 19, 2012, 08:48 AM
It is silly. They should just announce a date and be done with it. Microsoft announces their release date of their OS months before they release it. Apple is just getting silly with their whole secrecy crap. But hey, it's working. I'm all pins and needles on when the newest Mac OS is coming out. But Apple needs to be careful because the people that are adopting their products are no longer just their loyal fan boys that will buy Apple regardless of what they do. They are taking on a larger segment of a discerning consumerThis is d**b on so many levels. Apple should continue to release each new version of its OS when it is ready. There is no need to set some arbitrary deadline that it may or may not make.

If Apple adopts the Microsoft model, then Apple will get the Microsoft results. Specifically, no Microsoft operating system is ever out of gamma. This Mac user does not want his OS to download new updates each time he boots his computer. This Mac user does not want an OS that requires daily updates for his mission-critical applications.

alexander25
Jul 19, 2012, 11:01 AM
you mean on a Wednesday? In the middle of the weeK/

:rolleyes:

you made it seem like you were so important that you choose your own schedule. therefore, a wednesday shouldn't be an issue right? :rolleyes:

Mattie Num Nums
Jul 19, 2012, 11:30 AM
Why can't people deal with how Apple chooses to do business?

Because some of us have large environments to worry about.

rdowns
Jul 19, 2012, 11:50 AM
Because some of us have large environments to worry about.


Right. One can't plan an upgrade around a late July release date. :rolleyes:

dotcomet
Jul 19, 2012, 12:05 PM
I got the GM. I find it rather interesting. Since I paid for the Dev account, I guess I'll start developing Mac Apps. Wish me luck.

pdjudd
Jul 19, 2012, 12:17 PM
Right. One can't plan an upgrade around a late July release date. :rolleyes:
And even then if you are in a large environment, there is probably no huge rush to get on day one anyhow. Even n that case, just planning for "end of July" would be enough. Organizations would be wise to wait anyhow to make sure there are no problems.

soulsteelgray
Jul 19, 2012, 12:22 PM
In my opinion, I think part of the reason why Apple keeps release dates so close to the chest is because they still get a kick out of saying things like, "Mountain Lion is ready and it will be available tomorrow!" Very rarely do you have that kind of freedom in the tech world; Apple controls everything from the ground up, from hardware to software, so it's easy for them to judge exactly when their software is ready to ship.

Since it seems to be the go-to example, Microsoft has to announce when Windows 8 will be ready to ship because of all the OEMs. The OEMs have to be ready for Windows 8, and announcing that release date allows them to plan for it.

I don't think either approach is superior over the other; one stems from the tight integration and control of their products, the other from the myriad of partnerships.

Mattie Num Nums
Jul 19, 2012, 12:26 PM
Right. One can't plan an upgrade around a late July release date. :rolleyes:

One cannot also plan for people to just all the sudden rush to the App Store and download ML whenever they want once its released.

rdowns
Jul 19, 2012, 02:53 PM
One cannot also plan for people to just all the sudden rush to the App Store and download ML whenever they want once its released.


Yes, because the priority of all large organizations is to be the first to try out a new OS release.

Mattie Num Nums
Jul 19, 2012, 04:22 PM
Yes, because the priority of all large organizations is to be the first to try out a new OS release.

Since you know everything. The day Lion was released on the App Store we had over 150 installs. The following day we had literally hundreds of help desk calls over things being broken.

brentmore
Jul 19, 2012, 04:29 PM
The obvious answer is to send Apple your travel schedule so that this doesn't happen again. Hopefully you don't make any last-minute changes!

iLog.Genius
Jul 19, 2012, 04:37 PM
Because they're not RIM. They like to make sure before releasing dates no matter how finalized a piece of hardware or software is! :D

(BlackBerry user here...)

pdjudd
Jul 19, 2012, 04:52 PM
Since you know everything. The day Lion was released on the App Store we had over 150 installs. The following day we had literally hundreds of help desk calls over things being broken.

That could have been dealt with before hand - knowing the date of release is irrelevant if all you have to do is send out an announcement telling people to hold off until you have certified it internally. If you do any sort of formal support for end users you should have these policies. Make it clear long before a new version comes out.

Again, how is knowing the date going to help you if you don't either have policies in place like this.

At our office we do not allow people to just install a new OS (even if they own the box) unless we certify it. We tell them what we support and that's that.

Krazy Bill
Jul 19, 2012, 05:20 PM
It is silly. They should just announce a date and be done with it.Believe it or not, the majority of mac users don't walk through daily life dreaming of the day they will install Apple's newest operating system.

'Tis true.

rdowns
Jul 19, 2012, 05:50 PM
Since you know everything. The day Lion was released on the App Store we had over 150 installs. The following day we had literally hundreds of help desk calls over things being broken.


Sounds like your large organization has a lot bigger issues to deal with than a release date.

quietstormSD
Jul 19, 2012, 06:47 PM
This is d**b on so many levels. Apple should continue to release each new version of its OS when it is ready. There is no need to set some arbitrary deadline that it may or may not make.

If Apple adopts the Microsoft model, then Apple will get the Microsoft results. Specifically, no Microsoft operating system is ever out of gamma. This Mac user does not want his OS to download new updates each time he boots his computer. This Mac user does not want an OS that requires daily updates for his mission-critical applications.

I understand that. Maybe not do what Microsoft does by announcing the specific date months in advance. But the Golden Master has already been released to developers. Meaning, that is the version that will be released to the public. No more bug fixes. They already know the date that they are releasing it to the public. They are just not saying it to build anticipation through there reality distortion field. I've just been getting a little fed up with their secrecy tactics.

tekno
Jul 19, 2012, 06:59 PM
I can't imagine why knowing a date will really make any difference to me
I will just pick it up when it comes out

Why is it every thread I open, the first reply is from you? You should try and get out some more rather than endlessly whiling your life away on the internet.

heisenberg123
Jul 19, 2012, 07:21 PM
I understand that. Maybe not do what Microsoft does by announcing the specific date months in advance. But the Golden Master has already been released to developers. Meaning, that is the version that will be released to the public. No more bug fixes. They already know the date that they are releasing it to the public. They are just not saying it to build anticipation through there reality distortion field. I've just been getting a little fed up with their secrecy tactics.

yet it creates conversation even from someone who is "fed up" with it?

----------

Why is it every thread I open, the first reply is from you? You should try and get out some more rather than endlessly whiling your life away on the internet.

believe it or not you have to be here as often as the poster the see he made a post

pdjudd
Jul 19, 2012, 07:23 PM
I understand that. Maybe not do what Microsoft does by announcing the specific date months in advance. But the Golden Master has already been released to developers. Meaning, that is the version that will be released to the public. No more bug fixes. They already know the date that they are releasing it to the public. They are just not saying it to build anticipation through there reality distortion field. I've just been getting a little fed up with their secrecy tactics.

Trouble is the GM is a build. Generally itís the last one but developers get it so that Apple has enough time to find any show stopping bugs. They donít know when that could happen. Now 2 weeks should be enough, but they donít want to commit until they are ready to. They may not have to press discs anymore, but they still want to make sure they donít miss anything big.

SlCKB0Y
Jul 19, 2012, 09:03 PM
It is silly. They should just announce a date and be done with it. Microsoft announces their release date of their OS months before they release it.

Yea? And how often do Microsoft either miss the release date or need to push it back? How was that nearly 6 years waiting for "Longhorn", only to get Vista at the end of it? Apple should be more like this?

It looks really bad, it's much better to say nothing than commit to a date a miss it.

They need to make really sure there are no missed show-stopper bugs in the GM.

----------

But the Golden Master has already been released to developers. Meaning, that is the version that will be released to the public. No more bug fixes

I'm pretty confident that if they missed a serious bug which popped up in the GM they would fix it before general release.

rdowns
Jul 20, 2012, 07:09 AM
Why is it every thread I open, the first reply is from you? You should try and get out some more rather than endlessly whiling your life away on the internet.


Seems to me if you reralize that he has a large number of first posts, you may need to get out some more.

MisterMe
Jul 20, 2012, 09:34 AM
.... No more bug fixes. ....Shirley [sic], you jest. Microsoft issues bug fixes for its operating systems everyday. Which version of Windows do you have that is not receiving bug fixes?

maflynn
Jul 20, 2012, 09:38 AM
Shirley [sic], you jest. Microsoft issues bug fixes for its operating systems everyday.
Everyday? They schedule patches on the second tuesday of each month.

They also issue a code freeze for any beta OS going into Gold Master just like apple does. That is any new bugs will be addressed in a subsequent update. Apple does the same thing. Only if there's a huge problem uncovered with the GM will they issue a second GM (which has happened before)

Blipp
Jul 20, 2012, 10:23 AM
Sounds like your large organization has a lot bigger issues to deal with than a release date.

Exactly this. I've never heard of a large organization that allows their employees to upgrade their OS at will. How could you possibly support that? Our help desk has already been notified that any calls from users with Mountain Lion are to be closed as unsupported (not arguing that all companies should do this but we have to). We were even able to notify them without having a solid release date at hand. Shocking, I know.

Mattie Num Nums
Jul 20, 2012, 12:19 PM
Sounds like your large organization has a lot bigger issues to deal with than a release date.

Seeing how you know everything again whats the solution? OSX Configuration Profiles? Oh yeah thats right! Users can erase though under Apples EULA. Any other ideas?

pdjudd
Jul 20, 2012, 12:24 PM
Seeing how you know everything again whats the solution? OSX Configuration Profiles? Oh yeah thats right! Users can erase though under Apples EULA. Any other ideas?
How about a proper employee policy that states you may not install software not approved by your IT department. We do that even for employees that own their own computers. If they violate that policy you get to wipe their machine back to an earlier version.

Of course you have to get managemetn to go along with this policy but this has nothing to do with announcing dates and everything to do with support policies.

Lets just assume that Apple announced their release date? What good is that going to do if your software doesn't work? If you need to plan support based on something, you use the GM on a dev computer.

throttlemeister
Jul 20, 2012, 01:52 PM
Yea? And how often do Microsoft either miss the release date or need to push it back? How was that nearly 6 years waiting for "Longhorn", only to get Vista at the end of it? Apple should be more like this?

It looks really bad, it's much better to say nothing than commit to a date a miss it.

Never. Contrary to popular belief, and fed by the press stories, Microsoft never formally announces product release dates until they are pretty much ready for RTM. Instead, what you see is press stories based on the information that is available with dates that are guesstimates at best. You should not believe any Windows release date unless it is stated on a Microsoft press release, period.

However, this is in part caused by the more open communication Microsoft has with the media, I'll give you that.

Mattie Num Nums
Jul 20, 2012, 02:04 PM
How about a proper employee policy that states you may not install software not approved by your IT department. We do that even for employees that own their own computers. If they violate that policy you get to wipe their machine back to an earlier version.

Of course you have to get managemetn to go along with this policy but this has nothing to do with announcing dates and everything to do with support policies.

Lets just assume that Apple announced their release date? What good is that going to do if your software doesn't work? If you need to plan support based on something, you use the GM on a dev computer.

You've obviously never worked in the Entertainment industry.

heisenberg123
Jul 20, 2012, 02:30 PM
You've obviously never worked in the Entertainment industry.

are we talking about the pr0no industry?

iDuel
Jul 20, 2012, 03:34 PM
You've obviously never worked in the Entertainment industry.

What is it in the Entertainment Industry that requires the newest version of OSX the second it is released? It's not like your Software will stop working on SL or Lion.

It's always best to test things to avoid the amass of Help Desk calls. Makes sense doesn't it?

Meyvn
Jul 20, 2012, 04:51 PM
Are they just trying to be annoying and lame on purpose?

A major OS has no release date other than July, except I guarantee that Apple already knows when they plan on releasing and have known for a while now, and they refuse to publicly reveal it

This is a very interesting claim. You admit that you don't know when the release date is, yet seem to think you know the inner workings of Apple well enough to say that they've set a release date in stone already, and are just holding it back. Care to back it up, and tell us how you know they've set a date?

kodeman53
Jul 20, 2012, 04:55 PM
Care to back it up, and tell us how you know they've set a date?
Common sense and deductive reasoning. Apple stores putting up new displays on 7/24. What, you think people at Apple don't plan and simply wake up one morning and say, "Let's announce Mountain Lion today."

HelveticaNeue
Jul 20, 2012, 05:57 PM
During their earnings call on Tuesday, I expect Apple to announce that "Mountain Lion will be released tomorrow." Just like they did with Lion last year.

Meyvn
Jul 20, 2012, 07:12 PM
What, you think people at Apple don't plan and simply wake up one morning and say, "Let's announce Mountain Lion today."

Yeah, thanks for the straw man, but no.

I don't think people "wake up one morning" and make decisions. But in software, there is such a thing as caution, and checking for bugs, and tentative release dates.

Apple could well have been planning, tentatively, to release, say, on July 27th, without being entirely certain, due to the bugs that often pop up only at the last minute due to more users jumping on the GM bandwagon. And, not wanting to end up eating crow, they could've held the decision to announce somewhat up in the air out of caution.

kodeman53
Jul 20, 2012, 07:47 PM
But in software, there is such a thing as caution, and checking for bugs, and tentative release dates.

Apple could well have been planning, tentatively, to release, say, on July 27th, without being entirely certain, due to the bugs that often pop up only at the last minute due to more users jumping on the GM bandwagon. And, not wanting to end up eating crow, they could've held the decision to announce somewhat up in the air out of caution.

Tentative. I get it and it's wrong. 100% wrong. This is commercial software. There are advertising campaigns built around it. There are activities in thousands of stores built around it. All planned for a specific date, not a tentative date, plus or minus a few days if there are bugs.

pdjudd
Jul 20, 2012, 08:59 PM
Tentative. I get it and it's wrong. 100% wrong. This is commercial software. There are advertising campaigns built around it. There are activities in thousands of stores built around it. All planned for a specific date, not a tentative date, plus or minus a few days if there are bugs.

That is very close. They have a date in mind for sure, but they hold back as much as possible because they like to announce things as close as possible to availability as possible (I think they dislike the Osbourne affect). I think that with OS updates like with OSX they want to leave little room as possible for a gap - especially since they can put it up at any point. They basically gave people a 1 day lead up to Lion when they announced at the earnings call.

My theory has been that it will work the same - they want to exploit their earning calls and not want to risk a bad PR move should something come up.

Apple plays things very close and doesnít want to cater to external demands like long term announcements unless they just canít avoid it (my guess is that the iPhone and iPad is one such area they canít do much about because of carriers). I donít think they want to let a date slip which is why they did the next day thing with Lion. By the time any impact hit the market, Lion would turn things around.

Mattie Num Nums
Jul 20, 2012, 11:54 PM
What is it in the Entertainment Industry that requires the newest version of OSX the second it is released? It's not like your Software will stop working on SL or Lion.

It's always best to test things to avoid the amass of Help Desk calls. Makes sense doesn't it?

Its a cultural thing. People get what they want when they want it.

pdjudd
Jul 21, 2012, 12:12 AM
Its a cultural thing. People get what they want when they want it.

Thatís why you have to have strong policies to prevent this from happening. This exact thing can happen with any computer manufacturer and is completely irrelevant to the date. Apple can tell you the date and time of the OS release and it doesnít matter if you canít certify it before hand - something you can do with the DPís and the GM.

If people will upgrade their computer on Day 1, they can do that for another OS and they will do it outside of certification, hang a date of release is going to mean little to them. The only way you can do this is to set a firm policy and say that anybody who violates it wonít get supported until they are on a supported platform. I donít give jack about entitlement. If you work in business you need a firm IT policy that you can back up with management. YOu have to control your employees and their equipment or you will never be able to properly support them.

Look at it this way. Anybody can upgrade to the newest OS on day one on any platform. In any industry. Without knowing the specific date. Without the approval of the IT department. Even with technical polices in place. Of course most employees donít do that because they know that they wonít get supported by their department. You have to be firm with people and let them know you are serious. If they donít respect polices in place that is a problem that no tech company can and should address. Any time you have even a vague date you should be working to make sure you can support it.

JS82712
Jul 21, 2012, 02:17 AM
Are they just trying to be annoying and lame on purpose?

A major OS has no release date other than July, except I guarantee that Apple already knows when they plan on releasing and have known for a while now, and they refuse to publicly reveal it

by your logic, I can say, why cant apple just tell us the release date for iPhone 5 :rolleyes:

Meyvn
Jul 21, 2012, 09:43 AM
Tentative. I get it and it's wrong. 100% wrong. This is commercial software. There are advertising campaigns built around it. There are activities in thousands of stores built around it. All planned for a specific date, not a tentative date, plus or minus a few days if there are bugs.

Are you serious? Could you play semantics any more? "Plus or minus" means tentative. It means not specific.

kodeman53
Jul 21, 2012, 10:33 AM
Are you serious? Could you play semantics any more? "Plus or minus" means tentative. It means not specific.

Reading comprehension, it's a beautiful thing. Try it, you'll like it. English appears to be your second language. If so, I apologize.

Apple's release date is not, repeat not, tentative, not plus or minus. It is specific for the reasons I've already mentioned. Just because they do not announce it ahead of time, i.e., just because you don't know it, doesn't mean it has not been determined. :rolleyes:

sectime
Jul 21, 2012, 10:43 AM
Reading comprehension, it's a beautiful thing. Try it, you'll like it. English appears to be your second language. If so, I apologize.

Apple's release date is not, repeat not, tentative, not plus or minus. It is specific for the reasons I've already mentioned. Just because they do not announce it ahead of time, i.e., just because you don't know it, doesn't mean it has not been determined. :rolleyes:
Your attitude goes well with your tag line. Get over yourself.

SlCKB0Y
Jul 21, 2012, 11:23 AM
English appears to be your second language...


For real? You're the one who seems to be having problems grasping big words like "tentative".


Apple's release date is not, repeat not, tentative, not plus or minus.

If a serious bug was discovered now Apple would fix it and potentially release a second GM regardless of if it delayed their tentative release date.

The release date would be internally set assuming there are no major issues and to think they wouldn't be flexible with the release to avoid bad press/releasing a serious bug is moronic

mabaker
Jul 21, 2012, 11:47 AM
Can't believe one week before the actual release date people on here actually argue about the release date.

stevemiller
Jul 21, 2012, 12:08 PM
Can't believe one week before the actual release date people on here actually argue about the release date.

Amen. Talk about arguing for the sake of arguing.

"Secrecy" is a part if apples brand identity, whether you agree with it or not.

kodeman53
Jul 21, 2012, 12:29 PM
For real? You're the one who seems to be having problems grasping big words like "tentative".
I've seen your posts in other threads. Not worth my time responding to the rest of post here.

----------

Amen. Talk about arguing for the sake of arguing.

"Secrecy" is a part if apples brand identity, whether you agree with it or not.

Read the first post. The OP went on a rant because Apple didn't consult them about the release date. Then more posts by people like meyvn who have zero understanding about what goes into a commercial software release, particularly a major upgrade from Lion to Mountain Lion. Add in those who have a knack for stating the obvious, e.g., "If a serious bug was discovered now Apple would fix it and potentially release a second GM regardless of if it delayed their tentative release date." Oh, toss in a post by someone who can't stay on topic, truth in sigs threaten them, and here we are.

taedouni
Jul 22, 2012, 08:38 AM
Apple does everything for a reason. When it's ready then it will be released. They probably do not want to make an announcement because they know that if they make an announcement then everyone will flood Apple's servers on release date. If they do a surprise launch then people will upgrade at various times which will lessen the load on Apple's servers. Well that's just my .02.

pdjudd
Jul 22, 2012, 09:01 AM
The servers are going to get mobbed anyhow - it happens with all the big updates too ten though Apple just releases them anyhow. Apple knows that they are going to get lots of attention and they canít really surprise people for long. They announced Lion a day before so they donít seem too worried about people swamping their servers on day one - they like the idea of massive demand.

I think itís just that they donít see a big reason to give pre-anouncement these days. They have to tie the release into other internal things (store overhauls etc) that they donít talk about either. Apple just likes the idea of it being available ďnowĒ or as close to that as possible. Also they donít have to commit to any specific date should something crop up post GM.

Gutwrench
Jul 22, 2012, 11:29 AM
Look at it this way. Anybody can upgrade to the newest OS on day one on any platform. In any industry. Without knowing the specific date. Without the approval of the IT department. Even with technical polices in place.

You have to be firm with people and let them know you are serious.


I realize I'm coming in the middle of the conversation but these lines caught my eye. Where do you work in IT, desktop support? Nice academic spiel but most desktop techs run around with their heads caught off solving mundane trouble tickets. If they see, at least in my large company, someone with Admin Rights, has installed an unapproved app (Jing, for example) they have no time to play nazi and reimage their machine.

As a developer I need various tools and upgrades/plug ins to do my job. The desktop team and desktop managers have no clue or time to constantly enact red tape and research/approve every single object. If the desktops and network can't prevent unauthorized installs of OS then there seems to be a deeper systemic problem at that organization.

Lastly, in regard to your reference including personal devices...I demand my employer provide the machines I use for work. So they provide my desktop at work, and since I need to support after hours production batch processes they provide me with laptop for remote connections. They asked I be reachable by email on my iPhone and iPad and and declined my expectation to provide me with one. I agreed to allow them to install/configure apps on my personal iPhone and iPad but refused to sign their aggreement they could wipe my devices at their discretion. They acquiesced. I track emails from my person mobile devices and they did not install the setting requiring password changes and auto lock. My personal security habits anyway. if my company is concerned with SOX and SAS compliance and want to flex their muscles as you say "show they're serious", then be prepare to budget to provide me with the devices to do my job.

pdjudd
Jul 22, 2012, 11:49 AM
I realize I'm coming in the middle of the conversation but these lines caught my eye. Where do you work in IT, desktop support? Nice academic spiel but most desktop techs run around with their heads caught off solving mundane trouble tickets. If they see, at least in my large company, someone with Admin Rights, has installed an unapproved app (Jing, for example) they have no time to play nazi and reimage their machine.

I do work in IT. Of course we we hammer our polices in place that you donít install just anything on your computer without asking first - and we are very liberal about giving people admin rights to their computer. People generally think before they do things like this. We have never had any problems with people upgrading their OS - we tend to be very proactive and they consult us.

And we generally donít re-image unless we absolutely have to. When someone gets a new computer we get it first - we donít allow anybody to just bring in stuff sight unseen to our network. We only re-install if the OS itself hosed. If they go outside of our polices, we try to help, but we let them know they are on their own. We have a bunch of independent contractors that own their own equipment - hell almost everyone owns their own cell phone which we gladly support. We don't make them sigh anything on their devices they own. Of course they also understand that we can only support certain things and that we may need to wipe their device if necessary (which we almost never had to do).

When Windows 8 becomes available (which is when we will test it) we will make sure nobody buys it on their own - nobody bothers anyhow since most people either don't care or are running really old hardware. (we are still on XP mostly!). If anybody asks about supporting it, we explain we havenít certified it and they are largely on their own.

If you set a policy and employees follow it (which is up to management - and they can be accommodating - we have made exceptions before) people rushing out to upgrade shouldnít be a problem. All you need to do is tell people that you have not certified a new OS and any upgrading of the OS must be cleared before upgrading otherwise you will have to wipe it.

Again, we have known about the July upgrade for a while now. You can alert employees the day that we had a month. Knowing the exact day isnít going to change the fact that you need to have a support policy.

The vast number of enterprises have no issues dealing with employees wanting to upgrade. They have policies in place and IT can be very proactive with dealing with this.

kodeman53
Jul 22, 2012, 12:00 PM
...and we are very liberal about giving people admin rights to their computer.

Really bad idea which violates every security recommendation.

MisterMe
Jul 22, 2012, 12:53 PM
Really bad idea which violates every security recommendation.Yes, that's why they are inundated with Mac malware.

pdjudd
Jul 22, 2012, 12:54 PM
Really bad idea which violates every security recommendation.

I agree, but we have some programs that require it. It’s not my choice - we tried more restrictive accounts, but it caused more hassle than it was worth. Luckily we have pretty good firewall restrictions to prevent a lot of vectors for attack. Most of the threats out there are a problem because we are stuck with Windows XP for the most part.

It’s not my idea and I am not in favor of it, but I don’t have the ability to change it and it hasn’t been a problem as yet.


Yes, that's why they are inundated with Mac malware.

We don’t run Mac’s. We have a buch of iPads and iPhones floating around, but we don’t lock them down at all either - no reason to do that - we don’t have a legal requirement to do that. We are a private company.

ETA: This is a side point anyhow. Knowing or not knowing the specific date of the OS release isn’t going to stop users from upgrading. If you have compatibility concerns, you need to be proactive with your users. Apple has warned us that the OS is coming. We have known about it’s existence for some time. If you don’t want people upgrading, that is going to be a personnel problem that needs to be tacked long before release. Knowing a date doesn’t mean jack if users aren’t kept under reign by management. That is a personnel problem and that needs to be specified before you hire them or they need to be taken aside.

If you need to make accommodations for edge cases, well again, knowing the date doesn’t change the fact that software is incompatible.

kodeman53
Jul 22, 2012, 01:00 PM
Yes, that's why they are inundated with Mac malware.

Security means more than addressing malware. :rolleyes: Try again.