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MacRumors
Jul 19, 2012, 08:23 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/19/apples-share-of-verizon-smartphone-sales-slips-to-45/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2011/06/verizonlogo-150x90.jpg

Verizon today announced earnings (http://newscenter.verizon.com/press-releases/verizon/2012/verizon-reports-continued.html) for the second quarter of 2012, providing a first glimpse at Apple's iPhone performance during the quarter. During the conference call associated with the earnings release, Verizon announced iPhone sales of 2.7 million for the quarter, down from 3.2 million (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/19/iphone-again-represents-over-half-of-verizons-smartphone-sales-in-1q-2012/) in the prior quarter.

A quarterly decline in iPhone sales for Verizon is not necessarily a surprise given the typical lull heading toward new hardware launches. And with Apple's iPhone business increasingly coming from international markets, performance of the main U.S. carriers like AT&T and Verizon is less indicative of Apple's overall sales numbers.

Notably, the 2.7 million iPhones represent 45% of Verizon's total smartphone sales of 5.9 million units, down from roughly 50% in the first quarter and 55% in the fourth quarter of 2011. Apple's share of Verizon smartphone sales does, however, remain above its low point of 35% seen in the third quarter of last year just before the launch of the iPhone 4S.

Apple will report its performance (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/02/apple-to-announce-3q-2012-earnings-on-july-24/) for the third fiscal quarter (second calendar quarter) of 2012 next Tuesday, July 24.

Article Link: Apple's Share of Verizon Smartphone Sales Slips to 45% (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/19/apples-share-of-verizon-smartphone-sales-slips-to-45/)



EyeTack
Jul 19, 2012, 08:25 AM
Not surprised. VZ isn't exactly giving away iPhones, and none of the older models are on their network.

<snore>

Intarweb
Jul 19, 2012, 08:29 AM
Sell AAPL now!

Diode
Jul 19, 2012, 08:30 AM
<snore>

Besides the fact that Verizon is posting record profits and continues to raise prices. Bless government allowed duopolies!

Ryth
Jul 19, 2012, 08:34 AM
Yep pretty much standard here....new iPhone rumors are in full effect and everyone knows a new phone is coming in about 3 months. Not surprising. Plus those #s will be made up in the PAYGO market from Cricket/Virgin/Boost and hopefully one day T-Mobile.

grmatt
Jul 19, 2012, 08:37 AM
Besides the fact that Verizon is posting record profits and continues to raise prices. Bless government allowed duopolies!

Agreed. AT&T and Verizon both suck. I have been with both. I slightly prefer AT&T but I'm going to give Sprint a good hard look when the next iPhone comes out.

Sodner
Jul 19, 2012, 08:39 AM
Not bad considering its about 100 phone models for the "others" versus 3 models for Apple.

ugahairydawgs
Jul 19, 2012, 08:39 AM
Pretty standard to see the sales numbers do this in this portion of the product cycle. Honestly surprised to see it that high when we're ~2 months away from a new device.

johnswilson1
Jul 19, 2012, 08:43 AM
Very misleading.

For one, you shouldn't be reporting this quarter to last quarter. Instead you should be reporting this quarter to the same quarter one year ago. Second, this is the end of the cycle for the iPhone 4S. Even my long-ago dead grandmother knows that. Third, even if we did look at the dropoff from the past sequential quarter to this one sales are still remarkably strong. I would even posit that they held much better than other phones released in a similar time period.

Ballis
Jul 19, 2012, 08:43 AM
Not bad considering its about 100 phone models for the "others" versus 3 models for Apple.

Verizon only supports 2 Apple models I think (afaik, there is no Verizon 3GS), making these numbers even more impressive.

alent1234
Jul 19, 2012, 08:52 AM
Not bad considering its about 100 phone models for the "others" versus 3 models for Apple.

samsung is pretty much the only android phone maker. and the Galaxy 3 has been a HUGE hit

arkmannj
Jul 19, 2012, 08:53 AM
Makes sense, many people may be holding out for the next iPhone, Apple usually sees a dip in sales with all of their products when people think a new version might be coming relatively soon.

Chupa Chupa
Jul 19, 2012, 08:56 AM
The real shocker is why are so many people still buying iPhones ahead of the imminent release of the next version and price reduction of the 4 and 4s.

danimal11
Jul 19, 2012, 08:58 AM
Verizon sales reps are paid more to sell/push 4G phones. Until Apple comes out with a 4G phone verizon reps wont sell it. Why sell something if it doesnt make you money. Their loyalties are in their pockets. Look at the iPad sales at verizon vs android based platforms, I bet its leaning more toward iPad b/c its a 4G product, hence get them paid! All in all im disappointed with the arrangements provided by ALL providers but if I had to choose I would go with VZW, and just voice my loyalties. Cant wait for the iPhone 5 aka the Galaxy killer!

BigMcGuire
Jul 19, 2012, 08:59 AM
Why is this a surprise? As several posters before mentioned, big durrrrrrr to this article.

As for the Samsung Galaxy S3... Yeah, one of my android loving co-workers got it. Having had the OG Droid & HTC Thunderbolt for several years, I was considering going back as I wouldn't mind LTE in Los Angeles. However, upon testing out my co-worker's Galaxy S3, the dang screen is still laggy as hell and the virtual keyboard can't keep up with my typing (I type fast). Seriously? Dual 1.5Ghz processors and the darned thing can't keep up with my thumb texting?

My iPhone 4s was (and is) the only phone that has 0 lag and can keep up with my insane typing as if it was nothing. I guess LTE can wait. I like the size of the iPhone 4s as well, I don't want a tablet.

That said, I had to root my OG Droid and super overclock it to make it even usable. Same for the HTC Thunderbolt. Even when overclocked to the max using ASOP roms, those phones don't even come close to the iPhone 4S in smoothness and keyboard speed.

What really bothered me about Android was... I'm buying a $600-$800 phone and Verizon is going to FORCE adware on me? Verizon Android phones come with pre-loaded CRAP (gigabytes) that you can't uninstall unless you root. No. You are NOT going to make money off of a device I paid for by forcing adware on me that I don't want.

iPhone all the way.

dokujaryu
Jul 19, 2012, 08:59 AM
Does this mean the general population of smartphone buyers are getting smart enough to actually check the internet to see if a product is about to be refreshed?

BigMcGuire
Jul 19, 2012, 09:01 AM
The real shocker is why are so many people still buying iPhones ahead of the imminent release of the next version and price reduction of the 4 and 4s.

Yeah, I never got that. Companies have to be snickering loudly watching uninformed customers purchase tech about to expire. Then again, I don't think a lot of people care. Most of my relatives don't, and a lot of people I know even got the iPhone 3gs because it was "free."

RawBert
Jul 19, 2012, 09:07 AM
Verizon activated 2.3 million (http://mashable.com/2011/07/22/verizon-iphone-activations-2/) iPhones the second quarter of 2011.
This year it's 2.7 million for the same quarter. Why is this report comparing the first quarter to the second quarter of 2012?

dokujaryu
Jul 19, 2012, 09:08 AM
Why is this a surprise? As several posters before mentioned, big durrrrrrr to this article.

As for the Samsung Galaxy S3... Yeah, one of my android loving co-workers got it. Having had the OG Droid & HTC Thunderbolt for several years, I was considering going back as I wouldn't mind LTE in Los Angeles. However, upon testing out my co-worker's Galaxy S3, the dang screen is still laggy as hell and the virtual keyboard can't keep up with my typing (I type fast). Seriously? Dual 1.5Ghz processors and the darned thing can't keep up with my thumb texting?

My iPhone 4s was (and is) the only phone that has 0 lag and can keep up with my insane typing as if it was nothing. I guess LTE can wait. I like the size of the iPhone 4s as well, I don't want a tablet.

That said, I had to root my OG Droid and super overclock it to make it even usable. Same for the HTC Thunderbolt. Even when overclocked to the max using ASOP roms, those phones don't even come close to the iPhone 4S in smoothness and keyboard speed.

I have an S3 and a 4S and I agree the 4S feels faster and you can type significantly faster on it. I had to switch to TouchPal immediately and I still have significantly more errors and autocorrecting issues. One thing I really wasn't expecting was how slow it switches apps when you have a lot of them open, even with the 2GB of RAM. Especially with iOS 6, the 4S keeps up in most browser benchmarks to the S3 (Chrome) anyway.

I don't think its fair to say the screen is "laggy as hell" tho. I've been through about 4 androids in the last 4 months and this one is by far the smoothest. It seems to be impacted a lot by widgets, so I just took them all off the home screen. That also improved the horrible battery life I get out of this thing.

Like I said elsewhere, when compared to other Androids, the S3 is the best. But if Apple released this phone all the articles would read "Apple releases worst iPhone yet" and "What has gone wrong at Apple".

FSMBP
Jul 19, 2012, 09:11 AM
The real shocker is why are so many people still buying iPhones ahead of the imminent release of the next version and price reduction of the 4 and 4s.

If the 4 or 4S suits their needs, why would it matter? It's not like their 4S's lose functionally once the new iPhone is released. Not everyone needs the latest/greatest.

What would be a good cut-off to date to stop buying the current iPhone (just outta curiosity)?

BigMcGuire
Jul 19, 2012, 09:16 AM
I have an S3 and a 4S and I agree the 4S feels faster and you can type significantly faster on it. I had to switch to TouchPal immediately and I still have significantly more errors and autocorrecting issues. One thing I really wasn't expecting was how slow it switches apps when you have a lot of them open, even with the 2GB of RAM. Especially with iOS 6, the 4S keeps up in most browser benchmarks to the S3 (Chrome) anyway.

I don't think its fair to say the screen is "laggy as hell" tho. I've been through about 4 androids in the last 4 months and this one is by far the smoothest. It seems to be impacted a lot by widgets, so I just took them all off the home screen. That also improved the horrible battery life I get out of this thing.

Like I said elsewhere, when compared to other Androids, the S3 is the best. But if Apple released this phone all the articles would read "Apple releases worst iPhone yet" and "What has gone wrong at Apple".

Thanks for your thoughts - I agree. And you're right. Compared to the Thunderbolt I can't say it's laggy as hell. Nice blog! Reading it now. http://androidswap.blogspot.com/

Mad-B-One
Jul 19, 2012, 09:16 AM
...is don't trust analysts. Remember the article about the iPhone 4S no longer being the bestselling phone on Verizon anymore (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/26/apple-iphone-no-longer-verizons-bestselling-smartphone/)?

Well, that's the real numbers now, isn't it? :cool:

Wicked1
Jul 19, 2012, 09:18 AM
Agreed. AT&T and Verizon both suck. I have been with both. I slightly prefer AT&T but I'm going to give Sprint a good hard look when the next iPhone comes out.

LOL Good Luck with that :rolleyes:

I had Sprint for a year a long time ago, couldn't get a signal anywhere besides NYC, dropped them went to AT&T with a company phone. I was happy with AT&T, but then left the company, went to VZ. Well 8 years later and customer service was really frustrating and hard to deal with, and their new insurance policies sucked. Left VZ in 2008 for AT&T with the iPhone 3G and have had every iPhone since, great customer service, good data and voice service, and overall just very happy.

I have had T-Mobile when I worked with the Government, they were worse that Sprint as far as service, and since it was not my phone I never dealt with their customer service, so no opinion there.

Mad-B-One
Jul 19, 2012, 09:20 AM
Especially with iOS 6, the 4S keeps up in most browser benchmarks to the S3 (Chrome) anyway.

Yea, with iOS 6, Safari gets a little snappier! :D

RL7189
Jul 19, 2012, 09:23 AM
What doesn't help them is them getting rid of there unlimited data plan!

uknowimright
Jul 19, 2012, 09:23 AM
when was the S3 released for Verizon? I know it had gotten pushed back a bit

Stetrain
Jul 19, 2012, 09:23 AM
I was at a Verizon store recently and they were very heavily focused on their Droid line. I'm sure they make a higher profit margin on them, plus they want to push their LTE network which the iPhone doesn't support yet.

That might change a bit when the the iPhone gets LTE support this year.

bedifferent
Jul 19, 2012, 09:23 AM
Agreed. AT&T and Verizon both suck. I have been with both. I slightly prefer AT&T but I'm going to give Sprint a good hard look when the next iPhone comes out.

Ditto. I'm hoping Sprint and t-Mobile improve their networks as we need more competition, not less. I am so grateful that AT&T was barred from acquiring t-Mobile, let's hope Deutsch Telecom doesn't completely abandon its U.S. market (although I'm unaware of who exactly own t-Mobile now, or owns the most shares?).

gnasher729
Jul 19, 2012, 09:26 AM
Very misleading.

For one, you shouldn't be reporting this quarter to last quarter. Instead you should be reporting this quarter to the same quarter one year ago. Second, this is the end of the cycle for the iPhone 4S. Even my long-ago dead grandmother knows that. Third, even if we did look at the dropoff from the past sequential quarter to this one sales are still remarkably strong. I would even posit that they held much better than other phones released in a similar time period.

It's more likely the end of either iPhone 3GS or iPhone 4. When the next model is released, it will make sense to still have three models for sale. And dropping the iPhone 4 makes more sense than dropping the iPhone 4s.


Verizon only supports 2 Apple models I think (afaik, there is no Verizon 3GS), making these numbers even more impressive.

I saw numbers somewhere that claimed that both 3GS and 4 sales were actually quite low; only a few percent of the iPhone sales. I found that surprising myself, but it seems that 4s is about 90% of iPhone sales.

BigMcGuire
Jul 19, 2012, 09:28 AM
when was the S3 released for Verizon? I know it had gotten pushed back a bit

I think it was released on the 12th of this month.

----------

Ditto. I'm hoping Sprint and t-Mobile improve their networks as we need more competition, not less. I am so grateful that AT&T was barred from acquiring t-Mobile, let's hope Deutsch Telecom doesn't completely abandon its U.S. market (although I'm unaware of who exactly own t-Mobile now, or owns the most shares?).

I had T-Mobile from 1997 to about 2006. It was very good in Los Angeles, California. If my job didn't require me to have Verizon, I'd probably still be with them. That said, Verizon definitely has reception pretty much everywhere now that I'm working more north of LA.

zorinlynx
Jul 19, 2012, 09:31 AM
I'm an AAPL Shareholder, and own several of their products, and would call myself a fan.

Yet I want Android and other smartphones to do well too. Competition is good for this industry. If Apple becomes completely dominant, it will be bad for them in the long run because they WILL become complacent, start doing anti-consumer things and do everything they can to HOLD ON to this monopoly.

A competitive marketplace is the most healthy. There's room for Android, there's room for Windows Phone. The companies borrow ideas from each other (crazy patent lawsuits notwithstanding) and we all benefit in the end.

Apple fans: Please understand this.

Fans of other companies: I love you too. You've got a great platforms going.

Keep up the great work. We live in interesting, fun times.

KPOM
Jul 19, 2012, 09:39 AM
This isn't too surprising given the age of the 4S. It's amazing it is still 45% of VZW's smartphone sales given that it doesn't support LTE. With the SIII out this quarter, I expect the iPhone percentage to shrink a bit further this quarter before rebounding in Q4 with the new LTE iPhone.

NorEaster
Jul 19, 2012, 09:40 AM
Very misleading.

For one, you shouldn't be reporting this quarter to last quarter. Instead you should be reporting this quarter to the same quarter one year ago. Second, this is the end of the cycle for the iPhone 4S. Even my long-ago dead grandmother knows that. Third, even if we did look at the dropoff from the past sequential quarter to this one sales are still remarkably strong. I would even posit that they held much better than other phones released in a similar time period.

Why is comparing QoQ "wrong" in this case? Companies always want to see how they're doing from quarter to quarter to detect and explain trends in their revenue. I'm not saying that doing a comparison of this past quarter with the same quarter from last year is wrong, but doing a simple QoQ analysis is NOT wrong.

And why the heck are you so defensive about these numbers? The earnings report didn't pass judgement or make any comments that Apple was slipping ground to other mobile manufacturers. You're being a bit sensitive, eh?

donrsd
Jul 19, 2012, 09:46 AM
A competitive marketplace is the most healthy. There's room for Android, there's room for Windows Phone. The companies borrow ideas from each other (crazy patent lawsuits notwithstanding) and we all benefit in the end.

kind of like how Madden bought out the NFL license to not compete with NFL 2k (which was about to overtake madden as far as sales, but nfl 2k5 still destroys madden 2012 in terms of gameplay)
NFL 2k was the ISH.

since 2005, madden has gotten worse and worse. contract runs out feb 2014 :)

Boston007
Jul 19, 2012, 09:48 AM
Verizon charges way too much, more than AT&T. It's no wonder their numbers dropped.

foodog
Jul 19, 2012, 09:49 AM
samsung is pretty much the only android phone maker. and the Galaxy 3 has been a HUGE hit

Huge hit for an Android phone. I bet it still doesn't make the top 3 handset sales list

Boston007
Jul 19, 2012, 09:50 AM
kind of like how Madden bought out the NFL license to not compete with NFL 2k (which was about to overtake madden as far as sales, but nfl 2k5 still destroys madden 2012 in terms of gameplay)
NFL 2k was the ISH.

since 2005, madden has gotten worse and worse. contract runs out feb 2014 :)

THANK GOD

I agree with everything you said. Madden is horrible now, horrible!

Mad-B-One
Jul 19, 2012, 09:52 AM
Ditto. I'm hoping Sprint and t-Mobile improve their networks as we need more competition, not less. I am so grateful that AT&T was barred from acquiring t-Mobile, let's hope Deutsch Telecom doesn't completely abandon its U.S. market (although I'm unaware of who exactly own t-Mobile now, or owns the most shares?).

As far as I know, it is still Deutsche Telekom AG. Anything else would cause a name change. T-Mobile is their proprietary German wing for mobile services. The name is basically the "T" for Telekom and then the dash and the branch. They also have T-Online, for example, which services their high speed internet (ADSL) and other online services. The good thing is, they have money and don't go down because of bad performance. The bad thing is that T-Mobile USA is still not profitable and compared to Germany, does not provide the same level of service. In Germany, they fight with similar problems AT&T is fighting being the former government-owned postal service: Big overhead, basically running it is like running an oil tanker.

JHankwitz
Jul 19, 2012, 09:54 AM
THANK GOD

I agree with everything you said. Madden is horrible now, horrible!

What is a "Madden", and what does it have to do with the Verizon iPhone sales drop?

HallStevenson
Jul 19, 2012, 09:55 AM
Companies have to be snickering loudly watching uninformed customers purchase tech about to expire. Then again, I don't think a lot of people care. Most of my relatives don't, and a lot of people I know even got the iPhone 3gs because it was "free." I'm absolutely positive that the average person just wants an iPhone and has no clue about model numbers, when new ones come out, etc, etc. Remember, lots of iPhone buyers think they're phone is "4G" capable - I mean, it's an "iPhone 4" after all !

bedifferent
Jul 19, 2012, 09:56 AM
I had T-Mobile from 1997 to about 2006. It was very good in Los Angeles, California. If my job didn't require me to have Verizon, I'd probably still be with them. That said, Verizon definitely has reception pretty much everywhere now that I'm working more north of LA.

I lived in L.A. with AT&T and it was awful. Everyone I knew with AT&T had to get landlines.

I recall reading when AT&T acquired Cingular in '06, Cingular leased out many of their towers to t-Mobile to stave off bankruptcy. Almost half their towers in SoCal were renewed just before AT&T acquired the company, screwing them big time.

From my short time in L.A., I learned Beverly Hills is a sore spot. They won't approve the Metro to pass through to Santa Monica [thereby rendering it useless) nor will they approve new towers in their backyard". Yet they're the first to complain when their iPhone's have horrendous service. Guess t-Mobile got the better end in SoCal :D

------------------------------

As far as I know, it is still Deutsche Telekom AG. Anything else would cause a name change. T-Mobile is their proprietary German wing for mobile services.

Thanks! I recall the CEO of Deutsch Telekom (thanks for the Telekom correction :) ) making those statements, and needing/wanting to sell t-Mobile due to profit losses. I wasn't sure if they sold some of their company after the merger fell through and the name simply stayed for marketing sake or as DT had more shares.

I'm glad they're working at going after the only other GSM carrier in the states, we need more competition (and toss out contracts, ETF and allow people to use any SIM card on any phone and pay as you use, like those other first world nations :p )

BC2009
Jul 19, 2012, 10:16 AM
The fact that iPhone makes up 45% of their smartphone sales in the third quarter after its release is freaking amazing. I expected this to slip a lot more than that. There are literally 2 iPhone models at Verizon (iPhone 4 and 4S) versus something on the order of 100 other phones to choose from. Many of those other phones are newer than the iPhone. Couple that with the fact that Verizon sales people make next to nothing on iPhone commissions and therefore push other devices, 45% of all smartphone sales is great number. This bodes very well for AAPL.

----------



I saw numbers somewhere that claimed that both 3GS and 4 sales were actually quite low; only a few percent of the iPhone sales. I found that surprising myself, but it seems that 4s is about 90% of iPhone sales.

Despite that, the #2 selling smartphone is typically the iPhone 4. Which means that iPhone 4S is like 9 times better than the best selling Android phone. I have not seen the most recent rankings on this, but for many quarters the top two or top three spots were held by iPhone with the latest model being like 8x better than the previous model iPhone.

Sodner
Jul 19, 2012, 10:25 AM
samsung is pretty much the only android phone maker. and the Galaxy 3 has been a HUGE hit

Motorola and the DROID models?!

bushido
Jul 19, 2012, 10:40 AM
As far as I know, it is still Deutsche Telekom AG. Anything else would cause a name change. T-Mobile is their proprietary German wing for mobile services. The name is basically the "T" for Telekom and then the dash and the branch. They also have T-Online, for example, which services their high speed internet (ADSL) and other online services. The good thing is, they have money and don't go down because of bad performance. The bad thing is that T-Mobile USA is still not profitable and compared to Germany, does not provide the same level of service. In Germany, they fight with similar problems AT&T is fighting being the former government-owned postal service: Big overhead, basically running it is like running an oil tanker.

didnt they rebrand T-Mobile to simply "Telekom" in germany? i remember my iPhone getting a carrier logo update a year ago or so. it used to say t-mobile but now it says Telekom.de

Rogifan
Jul 19, 2012, 10:50 AM
Verizon activated 2.3 million (http://mashable.com/2011/07/22/verizon-iphone-activations-2/) iPhones the second quarter of 2011.
This year it's 2.7 million for the same quarter. Why is this report comparing the first quarter to the second quarter of 2012?
That happened last quarter too when CNBC and all the others compared AT&T and Verizon numbers from calendar year Q1 to the prior quarter. As someone who works in finance it's a totally bogus comparison. Doesn't account for seasonality or when product launches occur. Ridiculous. :rolleyes:

dgree03
Jul 19, 2012, 10:54 AM
The fact that iPhone makes up 45% of their smartphone sales in the third quarter after its release is freaking amazing. I expected this to slip a lot more than that. There are literally 2 iPhone models at Verizon (iPhone 4 and 4S) versus something on the order of 100 other phones to choose from. Many of those other phones are newer than the iPhone. Couple that with the fact that Verizon sales people make next to nothing on iPhone commissions and therefore push other devices, 45% of all smartphone sales is great number. This bodes very well for AAPL.

----------



Despite that, the #2 selling smartphone is typically the iPhone 4. Which means that iPhone 4S is like 9 times better than the best selling Android phone. I have not seen the most recent rankings on this, but for many quarters the top two or top three spots were held by iPhone with the latest model being like 8x better than the previous model iPhone.

First there aren't 100 phones to for the iPhone to compete with at Verizon. More like 12-14. Of those 12 I would only put 6 phones on par, slight better, or slightly worse than iPhone 4 and 4s.


Second, I agree, I would of thought the number would have been lower this quarter too. A better statistic would be of that 45% how many are converts and how many are just upgrading from a previous iPhone?

Mad-B-One
Jul 19, 2012, 10:56 AM
didnt they rebrand T-Mobile to simply "Telekom" in germany? i remember my iPhone getting a carrier logo update a year ago or so. it used to say t-mobile but now it says Telekom.de

You are right. 4/1/10 actually. Funny part is: The web page is still www.t-mobile.de (http://www.t-mobile.de). The article in German to that is T-Mobile ist jetzt Telekom (http://www.t-mobile.de/t-mobile-ist-jetzt-telekom/0,21284,24545-_,00.html). Note that the first topic under products is the iPhone...

KdParker
Jul 19, 2012, 10:56 AM
samsung is pretty much the only android phone maker. and the Galaxy 3 has been a HUGE hit

anyone got the numbers on Galaxy 3? I keep hearing it is a huge hit, but mostly isn't that mainly with the fandroids that would buy them anyway...

esp211
Jul 19, 2012, 10:56 AM
Why is comparing QoQ "wrong" in this case? Companies always want to see how they're doing from quarter to quarter to detect and explain trends in their revenue. I'm not saying that doing a comparison of this past quarter with the same quarter from last year is wrong, but doing a simple QoQ analysis is NOT wrong.

And why the heck are you so defensive about these numbers? The earnings report didn't pass judgement or make any comments that Apple was slipping ground to other mobile manufacturers. You're being a bit sensitive, eh?

It's not necessarily wrong to compare QoQ but it's not as meaningful as YoY due to the product cycle.

BC2009
Jul 19, 2012, 11:02 AM
Incidentally, AAPL stock is up today on this news. Which probably indicates that most investors (like myself) did not expect Apple to maintain such a high percentage of total smartphone sales versus the myriad of other choices on Verizon that support LTE and run on Android. Especially given the fact that Verizon sales reps push alternatives to the iPhone in order to make higher commissions.

Sedrick
Jul 19, 2012, 11:04 AM
Funny people rushing in here to down-play and rationalize the report. :rolleyes:

Lara F
Jul 19, 2012, 11:05 AM
First there aren't 100 phones to for the iPhone to compete with at Verizon. More like 12-14. Of those 12 I would only put 6 phones on par, slight better, or slightly worse than iPhone 4 and 4s.


Galaxy Nexus, Droid RAZR(Maxx), HTC Rezound, and now the HTC Incredible 4G and Galaxy S3...yup, 6 sounds right.

ReallyBigFeet
Jul 19, 2012, 11:07 AM
samsung is pretty much the only android phone maker. and the Galaxy 3 has been a HUGE hit

Whatchootalkinaboutwillis?

Samsung and HTC pretty much hold equal market share for Android handsets, with Motorola not far behind those two.

Last I saw, Verizon's number one handset seller has been Motorola for some time now.

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5000270fecad04016b00000f/nielsen-q2-2012-united-states-smartphone-market-share-chart.png

What the OP's link tells me is that Apple iPhone sales are doing phenomenal even 8 months into last years' model and there is a huge pent-up demand for the next one that is keeping people from going to the tier two offerings from Samsung, HTC and Motorola. Only the impatient/desperate are grabbing the new offering from Samsung.

BC2009
Jul 19, 2012, 11:09 AM
First there aren't 100 phones to for the iPhone to compete with at Verizon. More like 12-14. Of those 12 I would only put 6 phones on par, slight better, or slightly worse than iPhone 4 and 4s.


Second, I agree, I would of thought the number would have been lower this quarter too. A better statistic would be of that 45% how many are converts and how many are just upgrading from a previous iPhone?

I suppose you are right.... 100 is a number that is used when talking about the whole market and all carriers, but there are probably 12 to 14 on Verizon that directly compete against iPhone and probably two dozen lesser models of Android phones. Though Android certainly counts those "lesser models" as activations.

I'm not sure why "converts" versus "upgrades" would matter to financial statistics. It would matter with regards to customer satisfaction of iOS versus Android. People making a switch from Android to iOS would indicate a lower satisfaction rate on Android and desire to try something else. People sticking with iOS would indicate a high customer satisfaction rate. Recent surveys (http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/17/piper-jaffray-80-million-iphone-5s-sales-are-already-in-the-bag/) have still looked very favorable for Apple, but surveys are just surveys. Best indicator is these financial results and actual sales on an annual basis to factor out seasonality.

KdParker
Jul 19, 2012, 11:10 AM
Does this mean the general population of smartphone buyers are getting smart enough to actually check the internet to see if a product is about to be refreshed?

Of course....my mother in law knew when the iPhone was being released. She wants a new phone and is opting to wait for the iPhone 5 release.

ReallyBigFeet
Jul 19, 2012, 11:12 AM
Verizon sales reps are paid more to sell/push 4G phones. Until Apple comes out with a 4G phone verizon reps wont sell it. Why sell something if it doesnt make you money. Their loyalties are in their pockets. Look at the iPad sales at verizon vs android based platforms, I bet its leaning more toward iPad b/c its a 4G product, hence get them paid! All in all im disappointed with the arrangements provided by ALL providers but if I had to choose I would go with VZW, and just voice my loyalties. Cant wait for the iPhone 5 aka the Galaxy killer!

While I don't disagree that the sales reps at Verizon are getting spiffs/commissions on selling anything BUT an iPhone, I don't think its necessarily anything to do with LTE. Verizon doesn't offer a different data plan for 3G vs LTE coverage. You pay the same regardless.

JAT
Jul 19, 2012, 11:50 AM
While I don't disagree that the sales reps at Verizon are getting spiffs/commissions on selling anything BUT an iPhone, I don't think its necessarily anything to do with LTE. Verizon doesn't offer a different data plan for 3G vs LTE coverage. You pay the same regardless.

They were separate until June 28. And they are different plans, priced the same.

Nrwrit3r
Jul 19, 2012, 12:07 PM
Slips? 45% is pretty damn good.

alent1234
Jul 19, 2012, 12:20 PM
While I don't disagree that the sales reps at Verizon are getting spiffs/commissions on selling anything BUT an iPhone, I don't think its necessarily anything to do with LTE. Verizon doesn't offer a different data plan for 3G vs LTE coverage. You pay the same regardless.

i bet samsung pays the commission to sell their phones

----------

Whatchootalkinaboutwillis?

Samsung and HTC pretty much hold equal market share for Android handsets, with Motorola not far behind those two.

Last I saw, Verizon's number one handset seller has been Motorola for some time now.

Image (http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5000270fecad04016b00000f/nielsen-q2-2012-united-states-smartphone-market-share-chart.png)

What the OP's link tells me is that Apple iPhone sales are doing phenomenal even 8 months into last years' model and there is a huge pent-up demand for the next one that is keeping people from going to the tier two offerings from Samsung, HTC and Motorola. Only the impatient/desperate are grabbing the new offering from Samsung.

samsung make almost every dollar in profit share in the android market. in fact samsung makes something like 30% of the profits of the cell phone market including smartphones

HTC and others are about to go the way of the dodo with their single digit profit share

----------

anyone got the numbers on Galaxy 3? I keep hearing it is a huge hit, but mostly isn't that mainly with the fandroids that would buy them anyway...

i read 30 million units shipped this quarter, but that's worldwide

Leonard1818
Jul 19, 2012, 12:33 PM
Wow! What a news day...

First, a Verizon CFO says "Hey, did you guys hear the rumors about a new phone release this fall?" and suddenly it's now all but confirmed...

now this... "Verizon iPhone sales down (amid inevidable next iPhone launch)"

:rolleyes:

tbrinkma
Jul 19, 2012, 12:44 PM
Why is comparing QoQ "wrong" in this case? Companies always want to see how they're doing from quarter to quarter to detect and explain trends in their revenue. I'm not saying that doing a comparison of this past quarter with the same quarter from last year is wrong, but doing a simple QoQ analysis is NOT wrong.

And why the heck are you so defensive about these numbers? The earnings report didn't pass judgement or make any comments that Apple was slipping ground to other mobile manufacturers. You're being a bit sensitive, eh?

:confused: He explained why, in the quote you included in your post. The iPhone, like most iDevices (due to the somewhat predictable release cycle) have a fairly predictable pattern of purchases. This quarter, being the end of the cycle, when a lot of people are waiting (because they expect the next version to be released soon), is *historically* lower than the quarter before it. Doing a QoQ comparison when you know the device in question has a predictable, yearly QoQ pattern like this is misleading at best.

Mad-B-One
Jul 19, 2012, 12:50 PM
While I don't disagree that the sales reps at Verizon are getting spiffs/commissions on selling anything BUT an iPhone, I don't think its necessarily anything to do with LTE. Verizon doesn't offer a different data plan for 3G vs LTE coverage. You pay the same regardless.

Well, the plans are not different but the costs potentially are. I have an unlimited data plan with Verizon on my iPhone 4. It is eligible for an upgrade October 10 this year. Will I do it? Probably not with Verizon because they now force you into a limited data plan if you want to get a subsidized phone. Not gonna happen with me. I am now on about 2-3GB/month using 3G only (I love Pandora and use it als alternative to XM radio in my car). The moment I have a limited data plan which comes with even faster connetion, my bill will go up. This is not gonna happen. I'd rather wait until March 2013 and switch to either Sprint or T-Mobile - they are cheaper anyways.

spiderman0616
Jul 19, 2012, 12:55 PM
The real shocker is why are so many people still buying iPhones ahead of the imminent release of the next version and price reduction of the 4 and 4s.

I know a lady who bought an iPad 2 the day before the iPad 3 came out........AND STILL KEPT IT. She had no inkling that the new iPad was coming out, and really didn't care. While it was a stupid financial decision to not at least go into Apple and try to get $100 off, we quickly forget that the average non MacRumors reading user does not know or care about the new iPhone, the new iPad, etc. They want what they want, and they want it now.

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, and she pulled out her iPhone and started doing something--there was a lull in conversation and I mentioned how excited I was to get the new iPhone this year. She goes, "Yeah, right. There's a new iPhone this year. They've been saying that for 4 years and there hasn't been a new one yet". She literally thinks the 4s has been out for 4 years. I didn't get into it with her--she represents the average user.

We get caught up in these forum threads and sales numbers and blah blah blah. The average user doesn't know when Apple keynotes are, doesn't read up on potential new features, and probably couldn't tell a retina display from a 3GS.

tbrinkma
Jul 19, 2012, 12:55 PM
Whatchootalkinaboutwillis?

Samsung and HTC pretty much hold equal market share for Android handsets, with Motorola not far behind those two.

Last I saw, Verizon's number one handset seller has been Motorola for some time now.

Image (http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/5000270fecad04016b00000f/nielsen-q2-2012-united-states-smartphone-market-share-chart.png)

What the OP's link tells me is that Apple iPhone sales are doing phenomenal even 8 months into last years' model and there is a huge pent-up demand for the next one that is keeping people from going to the tier two offerings from Samsung, HTC and Motorola. Only the impatient/desperate are grabbing the new offering from Samsung.

That's an 'interesting' block chart to say the least. Note the vertical slice (platform) numbers for Android, iOS, Blackberry, and WinMob.

Blackberry has 3x the share of WinMob, but it's slice is almost (but not quite) twice as wide. A nearly 4:1 ratio between iOS and Blackberry shows as iOS having about 2x the width of the Blackberry slice. The ratio between Android and iOS seems to match their respective vertical slice shares though.

Whoever created that chart needs to take a a course on remedial data visualization. (Or, if they used a program to create it, they need to file a pretty serious bug report.)

ReallyBigFeet
Jul 19, 2012, 01:02 PM
Well, the plans are not different but the costs potentially are. I have an unlimited data plan with Verizon on my iPhone 4. It is eligible for an upgrade October 10 this year. Will I do it? Probably not with Verizon because they now force you into a limited data plan if you want to get a subsidized phone. Not gonna happen with me. I am now on about 2-3GB/month using 3G only (I love Pandora and use it als alternative to XM radio in my car). The moment I have a limited data plan which comes with even faster connetion, my bill will go up. This is not gonna happen. I'd rather wait until March 2013 and switch to either Sprint or T-Mobile - they are cheaper anyways.

Sprint coverage isn't all that great outside major cities, but if that works for you, so be it.

Tmobile throttles as well so not much of an option there.

----------

That's an 'interesting' block chart to say the least. Note the vertical slice (platform) numbers for Android, iOS, Blackberry, and WinMob.

Blackberry has 3x the share of WinMob, but it's slice is almost (but not quite) twice as wide. A nearly 4:1 ratio between iOS and Blackberry shows as iOS having about 2x the width of the Blackberry slice. The ratio between Android and iOS seems to match their respective vertical slice shares though.

Whoever created that chart needs to take a a course on remedial data visualization. (Or, if they used a program to create it, they need to file a pretty serious bug report.)

Chart came from Nielsen. When pulling the source for you I just realized they released an updated version earlier this week. Here it is:

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Q2-2012-US-Smartphone-manufacturers-share-updated.png

The data remained the same, but the scaling is fixed.

As to your point about remedial help needed...its Nielsen and I pretty much find everything they do is statistically relevant and accurately depicted. And when they make mistakes, they are honest about fixing them like they did here. Nonetheless, you obviously weren't alone in noting the scaling issue.

Source: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/?p=32494

Mad-B-One
Jul 19, 2012, 01:22 PM
Sprint coverage isn't all that great outside major cities, but if that works for you, so be it.

Tmobile throttles as well so not much of an option there.

Yes, I know that is what I'm facing. I had T-Mobile before the iPhone came to VZN. Voice service was okay - data was upgraded after I switched in my area. I know they roam a lot for free. With the data constraint (throttle), that would be an issue with 3G but I am confident that if 4G is throttled, it is still fast enough for Pandora - besides: I am not that heavy of a user. From what I heared - and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong because I don't know exactly - the throttleing would start far beyond 4GB which I estimate my usage would be. I have 50MBit/sec at home and a 3G iPad 2 which basically leaves not much data running on my phone.

Sprint coverage was too bad last time I checked in my area. So, when it comes to the point where I want to part from my current handset to the next iteration of "i," I will give them a check as well.


Edit: Something I didn't think about before: The new turn by turn navigation. That might eat up some data - but that won't happen too often either. I have a TomTom.

Constable Odo
Jul 19, 2012, 01:31 PM
The real shocker is why are so many people still buying iPhones ahead of the imminent release of the next version and price reduction of the 4 and 4s.

Not really. I know quite a few people that don't have a clue when the next iPhone is coming out because they don't bother to keep track of things like that. They have regular lives that don't revolve around Apple product releases. Even now, we don't know exactly when the next iPhone is being introduced except vaguely near the end of the year. Although it makes sense that they'd want a less expensive iPhone, but it doesn't mean they're aching for the next model. Many will be satisfied with last year's model iPhone with a price reduction. :D

avanpelt
Jul 19, 2012, 01:38 PM
My wife and I both have Verizon iPhone 4 handsets and I'm up for an upgrade now and she's up for an upgrade in October. Since the next iPhone will likely be released in the September/October timeframe, we will likely both be upgrading to the next iPhone to get access to Verizon's LTE network.

We're both on the Share Everything Plan now (saving us around $35 per month over the 1,400 minute/unlimited text/unlimited data plan we had previously), and we're both happy with Verizon (aside from the God-awful slow 3G data speeds in Metro Atlanta.)

SPUY767
Jul 19, 2012, 02:10 PM
Oh the humanity. Two phones are outsold by dozens if not hundreds of more heavily promoted (in the store) phones!?

jctevere
Jul 19, 2012, 05:20 PM
What I'm curious about is why this is seen as a negative thing? When you consider that Verizon carries roughly 30 different smartphone models, and there are only two iPhone models offered on Verizon (iPhone 4 and iPhone 4S). I think its a feat that two models still account for 45% of all smartphones sold on Verizon... Especially when you consider that VZW employees have incentives to push 4G LTE models (of which the iPhone does not yet support), I find it astonishing. Only makes me wonder what percentage of smartphone sales the new iPhone (5?) will account for on VZW when its released, as its rumored to support LTE.

alexN350z
Jul 19, 2012, 08:05 PM
iPhone 4 and 4s did amazingly well, but Android still taking over the market. Unfortunately Apple update cycle is too slow to stop that happen. Just check the latest galaxy s3 and google nexus 7 sales.
http://www.examiner.com/article/samsung-galaxy-s3-sales-on-a-rapid-incline-when-will-apple-respond

haruhiko
Jul 19, 2012, 08:12 PM
The word "slips" sounds like Apple had a really terrible quarter :D The tone of the article really only depends on how the author spins it.

The iPhone 4S is already 9 months old (=stone age in the Android world, support ended or soon to be ended), and nobody at any tel co was really selling the iPhone. They pushed the Androids and Samsungs so hard as if the iPhone didn't exist. Under this situation it's really amazing that the iPhone had 45% of sale at the largest carrier in the US last quarter.

emulator
Jul 20, 2012, 02:30 AM
If the 4 or 4S suits their needs, why would it matter? It's not like their 4S's lose functionally once the new iPhone is released. Not everyone needs the latest/greatest.

What would be a good cut-off to date to stop buying the current iPhone (just outta curiosity)?

If they buy the 4s today, they need the latest/greatest. When the 5 is released but they still buy the 4s, your statement is valid.

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iPhone