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50548
Jul 23, 2012, 01:42 PM
Those who don't know me in this forum have been accusing me of behaving like a troll due to my harsh criticism of the soon-to-be-launched ML. Unfortunately, these people ignore that probably over 95% of my thousands of posts have always been rabidly pro-Apple.

Moreover, I have converted more than 15 people over the last 5 years to Mac - and none of them are ever going back to the sad world of Windows.

So what's the problem with my criticism now? The problem is that, in my view, Apple no longer strives to innovate and/or devote the necessary resources for the development of a great OS X desktop experience. Instead, they have decided to take the easy path and simply integrate a bunch of iOS fluff, in total contradiction to the TRUE innovativeness that has put Apple back in the game since 1997.

Worse: most of the pro-ML comments in here tend to state that "no further innovation is expected" since OS X (or Windows) is so "mature". Well, do you remember how cell phones and music players were before the iPhone and iPod? I do. Do you also remember when Bill Gates said that no one would ever need more than 640KB of RAM in their home computers? I also do.

The genius of SJ was exactly to think OUTSIDE the box of mediocrity and come up with totally unexpected steps which, when taken together, would mean sheer innovation instead of continuity. However, the Apple of today has apparently abandoned this track (at least as far as OS X is concerned), focusing instead on doing more of the same. Whether it is a 3D desktop, a totally new file system, a mindblowing Finder interface, new input methods, new metaphors, NONE of these are realized in ML.

But to make such accusations is also an easy way of being termed a "troll". So I have decided to go through each and every one of the 200 "new" features (or chapters containing them) to justify my current state of opposition against ML. This message is, thus, directed at those who don't feel exactly excited about Apple's new release - let's see what we can find out (categorized in terms of innovativeness/usefulness -> both on a scale of 0 to 5, respectively):

1 - Accessibility - irrelevant for me and most persons out there, including those with special needs - other than 14 additional Braille keyboards and some additional VoiceOver commands, not much to report - rating: 0/2

2 - AirPlay Mirroring - everyone saw this one coming, probably one of the few truly welcome additions to OS X, even though Audio Support has been there for AGES now - rating: 0/4

3 - Auto Save - "Prompt to save when closing a document"? "Save As" Really? How is this even worth mentioning? The only good thing is that it brings back some requested functionality - rating: 0/1

4 - Built-in Sharing - This mostly annoying feature already existed before for some services and is just being extended. NOTHING else to report - rating: 0/2

5 - Calendar - "Search suggestions"? "Sidebar"? "Notifications"??? Are you joking? I had this with Leopard already! - rating: 0/1

6 - Contacts - "Groups column"? I've had Groups for AGES now! "Share button"? Gimme a break - rating: 0/1

7 - Dashboard - the ONLY notable thing here is the possibility to create widget folders à la iOS, something which may be useful to those having a gazillion widgets on their large screens - rating: 1/2

8 - Dictation - another relatively useful feature (depending on your proficiency of a handful of languages, of course), even though it's just another iOS thing brought over - rating: 1/3

9 - Dictionary - "Swipe between pages"? "New dictionaries" for definitions? - not even worth mentioning, but well... - rating: 0/1

10 - Facebook - yep, Mark Sugarloaf's FB is now part and parcel of OS X. No innovation, just annoying built-in sign-in and sharing tools - rating: 0/2 (for those FB lovers)

11 - Features for China - I am not Chinese, so I couldn't care less. This is the first time a SINGLE country is mentioned as a set of features for OS X. So we have two ratings, one for non-Chinese and another for Chinese users: 0/0 and 0/4

12 - Finder - the poor Finder doesn't get much love, now does it? "Inline progress", "Easy encryption", "Customizable sidebar"? "Tap to Quick Look" has been there since forever with the free MagicPrefs! Advice to Apple: Just buy Pathfinder or TotalFinder and pretend they are your creations - rating: 0/1

13 - Game Center - more iOS fluff, although gamers may like the fairly innovative cross-platform multiplayer support, the only thing worth mentioning here - rating: 2/2

14 - Gatekeeper - just more of the walled garden approach, with increasingly less flexibility as far as your apps are concerned. But increased security is good anyway - rating: 1/3

15 - iCloud - ALL of the features announced there already exist in one form or another. ML just brings a few tweaks here and there. And for those cloud haters, this means absolutely nothing, NADA - rating 0/3 (for cloud users)

16 - Launchpad - "Search"? I do not need to comment further, do I? rating: 0/0

17 - Mac App Store - this is NOT an OS feature, it's an update to an app by itself - "Swipe between pages" and "Automatic downloads" are somehow useful - rating: 0/2

18 - Mail - "VIPs" are like Google "stars"; irrelevant. "Inline search" may be useful. "Notifications" have been with us for years now through Growl and others - rating: 0/2 (for inline search)

19 - Messages - This is just iChat improved, with better iOS/OS X integration, nothing else. And I've heard the NASTY RAM/disk eating bug is still there - rating: 0/3 (for heavy cross-device messaging)

20 - Notes - It seems like this doesn't even have copy/paste enabled. Stickies on steroids and nothing more - rating: 0/1

21 - Notification Center - more iOS fluff/Growl-induced crap - may be useful to some, though - rating: 0/2

22 - Photo Booth - these "new" features are so ridiculous they are not even worth mentioning - rating: 0/0

23 - Power Nap - another one of the FEW true innovations in ML. Of extremely limited usefulness, though (only notebooks with flash storage) - rating 3/2

24 - Preview - Hardly innovative, but "Inline notes" and "insert page from scanner" may be useful to some - rating: 1/2

25 - QuickTime X - irrelevant, apart from slightly faster decoding for some - rating: 0/1

26 - I am getting tired of typing, so see 21 above - rating: 0/2

27 - "Password Autofill"? How is that possibly new? "Smart search" and "Tab view" and "DNT" are improvements, still. Sad to see that the main "innovation" in ML belongs to an autonomous browser - rating: 2/3

28 - Security - I thought "Kernel ASLR" was already in place, but still...more sandboxed apps are also welcome. Innovations? Close to ZERO - rating: 1/3

29 - System - apart from "improved scroll bars" and "drag and drop in screen sharing", NOTHING else needs to be elaborated upon. Not to mention that the "Go full screen on any display" is a pathetic non-fix of the full screen problem in Lion. Sadly, even Windows can do better than that. Don't believe me? Check this AI thread: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/151427/inside-os-x-10-8-mountain-lion-gm-go-full-screen-on-any-display/40 - rating: 1/2

30 - TextEdit - irrelevant improvements - rating: 0/0

31 - Time Machine - "Backup to multiple locations"? Sure, but this doesn't seem to mean multiple drives at the same time - rating: 1/2

32 - Twitter - irrelevant, to say the least - rating: 0/0

Now YOU do the math and tell me who is trolling.

Am I gonna buy it? Probably yes, just as I buy a $20 lunch every day here in Switzerland. Marginal improvements, perhaps a little more speed. Innovation? Excitement? Bragging rights? That "I love Apple" feeling? ABSOLUTELY NOT.



Hellhammer
Jul 23, 2012, 01:50 PM
I think Microsoft is seriously trying to bring something new to the desktop world with Windows 8. Whether it ends up being a catastrophe remains to be seen, but innovation requires taking a risk. Apple has been playing safe for too long in my opinion. I'll be sticking with Snow Leopard because it has all the features I need - I tried Lion but it was noticeably slower and reduced my battery life.

trustme
Jul 23, 2012, 01:53 PM
Ummm. What kind of rating system is that?

rorschach
Jul 23, 2012, 01:54 PM
What innovations would you like to see? It's easy to post what you don't like, what do you want? Honest question, because that's what I'm much more interested in hearing.

Also, an aside:
The genius of SJ was exactly to think OUTSIDE the box of mediocrity and come up with totally unexpected steps which, when taken together, would mean sheer innovation instead of continuity. However, the Apple of today has apparently abandoned this track (at least as far as OS X is concerned), focusing instead on doing more of the same.
People here were saying the exact same things with every new Apple product while Steve Jobs was in charge. Just saying. Go through the archives and look at some of the old announcement threads.

Glockron
Jul 23, 2012, 02:00 PM
Gotta agree with the OP. ML brings very little new. They really should focus on some of the base flaws of the OS, such as finder (would prefer WinExplorer anyday...) and compatibility.

Personally I really dislike the move to a more iOS-like environment. There's a reason I got a Mac and not an iPad... Some iOS-inspired features are welcome, such as launchpad - but a lot of the other stuff is just useless.

maflynn
Jul 23, 2012, 02:01 PM
. Apple has been playing safe for too long in my opinion.

Mountain Lion is a polished up Lion with a few more features. I like ML and what it has to offer over Lion. With that said, I agree wholeheartedly that apple is playing it safe at this point. I think they had an opportunity to really leverage and extend OSX, but instead opted to make a few updates.

Krazy Bill
Jul 23, 2012, 02:02 PM
Dude... I'm probably more critical than you about where OSX is headed (see my sig) but an Airplay rating of zero just because "everybody saw it coming"? :eek: Still I give you an up vote for the elaborate dissertation though.

Overall, I agree more than not about most anything else. We all have nits but mine is specifically:

WHY DO FULL SCREEN APPS GET THEIR OWN FREAKING SPACE???? (thereby causing a bag of hurt for multi-monitor users).

Fix the above and I can swallow a lot of eye candy and other ancillary fluff.

w3rt
Jul 23, 2012, 02:05 PM
I agree apple are playing it safe lately and the whole iOS integration stuff is not what I am looking for to be honest.

50548
Jul 23, 2012, 02:07 PM
Just to be clear, the "two-number" rating system I came up with means, respectively, "innovativeness and usefulness". This is why Airplay, in my view, gets a ZERO for the former, and a FOUR for the latter.

comatory
Jul 23, 2012, 02:08 PM
Some of those points remind me of one of Lion's "features" touted last year - window resizing, haha that was good one.

Actually I'm hoping that ML will become something like SL to Leopard, improvement in speed and stability.

Yeah, some of that stuff is bleh.. but Powernap seems really cool if there's anyway to modify some settings (I don't like installing updates to my apps automatically for example).

50548
Jul 23, 2012, 02:10 PM
What innovations would you like to see? It's easy to post what you don't like, what do you want? Honest question, because that's what I'm much more interested in hearing.



Rorschach, I have posted elsewhere my multiple suggestions for areas of "innovative" improvement in OS X.

A quick example above is in Finder. Everyone knows a MAJOR revamp has been necessary for years, yet nothing is done by Apple.

At the very least, they could have bought something like Pathfinder and implemented it as part of the system. And if they had thought a little more ahead, perhaps something even more avant-garde like BumpTop.

Orlandoech.com
Jul 23, 2012, 02:13 PM
The only few things I like are;


the new look of the dock
the copy progress in finder
notification center
icloud integration
speed improvements over lion


Other than that, they are trying too hard to incorporate iOS into OS X.

Pompiliu
Jul 23, 2012, 02:16 PM
BRLawyer, that's exactly how i feel about new Apple.

A few years ago, apple used to innovate with features like Expose, Spaces, Time Machine, Quicklook,etc, now all we gate is facebook, twitter, gamecenter.
And features for China.

aicul
Jul 23, 2012, 02:26 PM
Am I gonna buy it? Probably yes, just as I buy a $20 lunch every day here in Switzerland. Marginal improvements, perhaps a little more speed. Innovation? Excitement? Bragging rights? That "I love Apple" feeling? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

share all points

Will probably buy also

But don't think 20$ gets you lunch in switzerland

Krazy Bill
Jul 23, 2012, 02:35 PM
At the very least, they could have bought something like Pathfinder and implemented it as part of the system. And if they had thought a little more ahead, perhaps something even more avant-garde like BumpTop.You are missing the obvious direction Apple is taking with OSX. The Finder is the anti-iOS thorn in Apple's arse. They'd like nothing better than to do away with it entirely.

Sky Blue
Jul 23, 2012, 02:39 PM
A quick example above is in Finder. Everyone knows a MAJOR revamp has been necessary for years, yet nothing is done by Apple.


Like what? If you were in charge of OS X, what would you do? What would do with the Finder?
How is a "3D Desktop" in any way a useful relevant feature?

aicul
Jul 23, 2012, 02:43 PM
BRLawyer, that's exactly how i feel about new Apple.

A few years ago, apple used to innovate with features like Expose, Spaces, Time Machine, Quicklook,etc, now all we gate is facebook, twitter, gamecenter.
And features for China.

If i take your comments and add them to the initial 20 odd, it seems quite obvious, osx is now mature and will no undergo a revolution.

Basically this simply speaks to me as follows; if i want the next relase of iphoto, imovie, i will have to cough up the price of ML i don't really need

So maybe Apple needs to stop cats, start some other animal and surprise us with a yeue renewal.

The risk is incremental improves, something that cost nokia dearly

talmy
Jul 23, 2012, 02:55 PM
They've backed off of the radical changes in Lion (thinking here of Resume and Duplicate, as well as the backwards UI steps in Calendar and Address Book) which should make Lion Haters perhaps more likely to move forward. And since ML installs over SL, they've certainly had that in mind. For people that like Lion, ML is a no-brainer upgrade. It fixes more problems than it creates. (Admittedly, it does remove some features that some people want/need, but that's always been the case with Apple.)

50548
Jul 23, 2012, 02:59 PM
Like what? If you were in charge of OS X, what would you do? What would do with the Finder?
How is a "3D Desktop" in any way a useful relevant feature?

At the very least, implement something like Pathfinder on a system-wide basis; but my point is not even that.

It's about seeing Apple once again TRULY INNOVATE in the OS X arena, with some thinking outside of the box just like SJ used to do with things such as the G4 Cube, OS X itself (following the Copland fiasco), the iPod and the iPhone.

Problem is: SJ is gone, so I don't know WHO would be able to see things beyond the ordinary. ML is definitely NOT a step in that direction.

d4rkc4sm
Jul 23, 2012, 03:02 PM
ml is a refinement of lion, just like sl to leopard. ml will be a must-have upgrade.

scarred
Jul 23, 2012, 03:02 PM
You aren't trolling, but you sure do lack a lot of perspective imho.

This is a $20 update. A "point" release. No, it won't blow anyone away. I'm hoping most of the effort was behind the scenes stuff tbh. It is a decent way to spend twenty bucks. It polishes Lion.

Now, your comments that Apple isn't innovating anymore is a whole different topic. :P I'll have to disagree with you on that front, but honestly, if you can't see this on your own, then me pointing it out won't do anything.

Tankmaze
Jul 23, 2012, 04:06 PM
to be fair, mountain lion is only a year old upgrade than lion... we usually get 18 - 24 months OS upgrade from apple, now apple wanted to do it every year just like iOS.. plus mountain lion is like leopard -> snow leopard that is mostly under the hood improvement...

iSimx
Jul 23, 2012, 04:44 PM
I'm looking forward to getting ML as I see this update as a refinement of Lion (which for me has been sluggish) but on the other hand I do agree with a lot you say. Apple have played it safe for quite a while. Although I personally don't like Windows 8 (although it may grow on me) you've got to applaud Microsoft for taking the risk and making something completely different.

50548
Jul 23, 2012, 05:47 PM
And ANOTHER reason to be underwhelmed with ML: PowerNap ONLY works with Apple-branded SSDs. So Point 23's rating must be down from 3/2 to 3/1...

Mac32
Jul 23, 2012, 06:51 PM
Well, I'm still on Snow Leopard on all my Macs, and I've complained about Lion since day one, so..yeah I totally agree with you.
Also, it's not just a lack of new, useful features, it's also about Apple making non-sensical changes in the user interface that messes up the workflow for *serious* use, not just web browsing, playing music, and writing a couple of documents now and then.

Quite frankly, Snow Leopard is already an incredibly mature and well functioning OS. I'd rather have a "safe" upgrade, than using something that havn't been thought through well enough. Lion is a prime example of how well intended programmers can mess up already working functions, and give us something that is clearly worse - ie. autosave, fullscreen implementation, mission control etc..

On the other hand, there are things missing in Finder, that Windows Explorer have had for 10 years or more.

doug in albq
Jul 23, 2012, 06:55 PM
"Mountain Lion" is to "Lion" what "Snow Leopard" is to "Leopard"

and not much more. I hated Lion and I love ML.

Seems like BR Lawyer is looking for a bag of new features with ML. BR Lawyer, please re-read the first line in this post.



EDIT: for all interested, ML is FASTER than SL, and is much faster than LION.

xav8tor
Jul 23, 2012, 06:55 PM
Nvidia GTX 5/600 support alone (regardless of no boot screen) is worth more than 20 bucks to a lot of Mac Pro users. However, the iOS fluff and general dumbing down of the OS for the masses, especially things like Finder, crazy defaults and hidden options used often, are not welcome. It will probably get worse unless Apple follows MS and releases a "Pro" version of OS X with the promised Mac Pro update next year. I for one am starting to miss PC flexibility/Windows and have had more crashes with OS X than in Win 7 since making the switch.

Ref post below, I had the same initial reaction. ANY improvement in accessibility for those less fortunate should be highly praised. Such features have immeasurably improved the quality of life for hundreds of thousands, if not millions.

M87
Jul 23, 2012, 07:01 PM
Accessibility is HUGELY important to those who need it. I stopped reading after that. Go use Windows 8 if you don't like OS X anymore, but all you'll find there is an even more blatant gimmick.

Senseotech
Jul 23, 2012, 07:15 PM
Accessibility is HUGELY important to those who need it. I stopped reading after that. Go use Windows 8 if you don't like OS X anymore, but all you'll find there is an even more blatant gimmick.

You hit the nail on the head. The OP doesn't appreciate the features, so that MUST mean ML is irrelevant for everyone. And an FYI: putting "Non-Troll" in your topic just drives the point home that your singular goal here is to troll and dredge up drama.

BSben
Jul 23, 2012, 07:39 PM
Ummm. What kind of rating system is that?

It left me puzzled too, maybe the next OS will have an app to decipher....???

KJmoon117
Jul 23, 2012, 07:43 PM
And ANOTHER reason to be underwhelmed with ML: PowerNap ONLY works with Apple-branded SSDs. So Point 23's rating must be down from 3/2 to 3/1...

I was really looking forward to this feature... :( Shame that I didn't know that it only works with Apple SSDs.

For a $20 release, I can swallow the fact that ML isn't revolutionary. However, I do look forward to future revisions being a game changer in the industry. Most likely the jump from 10.8/10.9 to 2.0.

But Microsoft did take a risk with the metro interface on Windows 8 and for that I admire them. Let's see if Apple will do the same.

linuxcooldude
Jul 23, 2012, 07:46 PM
Going to one year upgrades we are not going to see substantial changes in such a short time span. Likely every other year or some such.

1 - Accessibility - irrelevant for me and most persons out there, including those with special needs - other than 14 additional Braille keyboards and some additional VoiceOver commands, not much to report - rating: 0/2

Irrelevant to you, unless you get in an accident and find out you have to rely on it every day.

I meet a blind woman at a Mac users meeting who was totally blind. She was using an iPhone 3G using all gestures. In fact with text to speech turned on at a much faster words per minute, she was using her iPhone faster then I could.

Your post rating: 0/0

nuckinfutz
Jul 23, 2012, 07:46 PM
Apple lays foundation and then they build features upon that foundation. Mountain Lion is clean up and polish to features that largely already existed.

Give it time. Be patient Padawan.

scarred
Jul 23, 2012, 07:48 PM
And ANOTHER reason to be underwhelmed with ML: PowerNap ONLY works with Apple-branded SSDs. So Point 23's rating must be down from 3/2 to 3/1...

Source?

ffs. you say you aren't trolling, yet fail to do the basics to show that you aren't.

heisenberg123
Jul 23, 2012, 08:07 PM
I was really looking forward to this feature... :( Shame that I didn't know that it only works with Apple SSDs.

For a $20 release, I can swallow the fact that ML isn't revolutionary. However, I do look forward to future revisions being a game changer in the industry. Most likely the jump from 10.8/10.9 to 2.0.

But Microsoft did take a risk with the metro interface on Windows 8 and for that I admire them. Let's see if Apple will do the same.

they just made it look like their mobile devices not really a risk

eagandale4114
Jul 23, 2012, 08:10 PM
Source?

ffs. you say you aren't trolling, yet fail to do the basics to show that you aren't.

I dont agree with the OP at all but Powernap only works with the MBA gen 2 and newer and the rMBP.
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5981/DSC_7260_575px.JPG

nuckinfutz
Jul 23, 2012, 08:13 PM
For the MBA 2nd Gen means 2010 and on unibody construction.

sexiewasd
Jul 23, 2012, 08:32 PM
Ok so, keep in mind that i'm a new convert from this year to mac's and OS X, aside from in school back in the original iMac days, and ohh gawd I remember a mac classic way back when I was using an IBM Personal system II at home, and long before I actually knew how to use them, but overall OS X is new to me, and I've not tried Mountain Lion yet.

On the opinion that Mountain Lion is a boring release.
Mountain Lion isn't being called this, but really it seams like a paper cut release. It fixes a bunch of small annoyances and improves performance. It's like Windows 7 was to Vista. When you have a short release schedule then you need to take a break from adding new features and just fix things up a bit, add some polish so that everything is in a good state to move on with. Papercut releases tend to be some of the best releases in the Linux world. Everything stabilizes for a bit before being shaken up again by new features.

On the integration of iOS features
Coming from the world of Ubuntu and Windows... Things work together? How is this not magic? People complain about this as being cheap to just tack on iOS fluff. Can you not see that this is Mountain Lion's innovation? This is what Windows 8 is all about. It's the vision that both Microsoft and Apple are chasing. In my opinion Mountain Lion fails in this regard only because it's not pushing this aspect fast enough, and because iOS it's self is ready for some new innovation, but iOS 6 also got the paper cut treatment this time around.

On AirPlay
AirPlay is being held back by the Apple TV. It needs to work from iDevice to iDevice to Mac and Mac to Mac and back. It should be AirDisplay on crack, but it slacks. <- sorry, I may have had a little rhyming moment. :D

On finder
OMFG can it even be called a file browser when it's so very basic? I understand Apple's want to keep it simple, but when you do real work, real work with files and things it just plain out sucks to use. It makes me miss nautilus so very much, which happens to be an absolute pleasure to use for maintaining a local LAMP server with. I have not considered running a MAMP server yet, and I don't think that I will anytime soon. I'm just so thankful that FileZilla works on Lion. I've heard that forklift rocks too, I've bought it, but haven't used it yet. I think my biggest gripes are the lack of right-click new file, and having to right click it's dock icon and open a new window from in that menu. Small complaints, but they waste so much time.

On the OP's rating system
I haven't seen that one before. When I read your post the first time I thought you were giving them all zero's.

On autosave
This works, what's not to like about it? I honestly don't see needing Save As when duplicate works fine, and possibly even dandy as well.

On Apple killing off finder/filesystem
Well this could be really nice, or really really terrible, depending on how it's done, if it's ever done. It would be nice to have OS X's filesystem stay the heck out of the way. I don't want or have any need to ever see it. I would like to see my little app icon's in launchpad, and have my dock moved there permanently too. I would like to never see third party apps cluttering up my toolbar, similar to iOS, and when I have a need to digg into an apps files it should be a right click option on the app's icon to take me to it's nicely sandboxed directory. The rest of the file system (Home directory, external drives, independent partitions, remote servers, ect...) should be mine to use and abuse however I see fit. If I want I should be able to drag one of my app's icons onto a USB drive, and BAM! (with a painfully slow USB transfer rate) it's there, with it's whole sandbox directory ready to be run on any Mac, from the drive, or installed into launchpad. I mean we do have Apple id's for a reason, so why not use that to enable app portability?

I think that's enough typing for now.

Jovian9
Jul 23, 2012, 08:42 PM
.........

1 - Accessibility - irrelevant for me and most persons out there, including those with special needs - other than 14 additional Braille keyboards and some additional VoiceOver commands, not much to report - rating: 0/2

..........


Stopped reading after this. Irrelevance to you does in no way shape or form equal irrelevance of Mountain Lion to the rest of the world. This first point, the very first point, clearly demonstrates what your attempt is here.

A change in the thread title would be appropriate to ensure that MacRumors readers realize this thread is about the 'Irrelevance of ML to BRLawyer' before proceeding to waste time reading it.

a3vr
Jul 23, 2012, 09:29 PM
I've had an iPhone since the 3G came out and have a iPad 3. Based on these experiences I recently purchased a macbook. I do enjoy the macbook but I completely agree with the original poster, the innovation is gone. You look at windows 8 and you see out of the box thinking left and right with metro. As a long time windows user (and still am with my desktop) I feel like OSX is several years behind. Yes there are lots of integration features which are very nice, there are plenty of apps that allow customization, but OSX feels old and outdated compared to Windows 7 and especially Windows 8. I haven't used the previous OSX versions, but it doesn't appear that the user experience has changed. Lion and ML look remarkably similar to Cheetah. They can only ride this wave so long before they become a victim of their own success.

scarred
Jul 23, 2012, 09:36 PM
I dont agree with the OP at all but Powernap only works with the MBA gen 2 and newer and the rMBP.
Image (http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5981/DSC_7260_575px.JPG)

This I know, but the op stated that if you get an after market SSD it will not work. My MBA has a drive from owc. I don't understand why power nap won't work. Nor do I believe it really.

eagandale4114
Jul 23, 2012, 10:16 PM
This I know, but the op stated that if you get an after market SSD it will not work. My MBA has a drive from owc. I don't understand why power nap won't work. Nor do I believe it really.

Oh. I guess I misunderstood the question.

talmy
Jul 23, 2012, 10:16 PM
On finder
I think my biggest gripes are the lack of right-click new file, and having to right click it's dock icon and open a new window from in that menu.


Have a look at the "Stationery pad" feature for creating new files. I do admit that Windows handles "New" quite elegantly and extensibly. You can use command-N to open a new window; no need to right click on the dock icon.


On Apple killing off finder/filesystem
and when I have a need to digg into an apps files it should be a right click option on the app's icon to take me to it's nicely sandboxed directory.

Until you deal with multiple large projects where you want the files organized by project and not by application. The the sandboxed directory fails miserably.

xVeinx
Jul 23, 2012, 11:01 PM
In all honesty, the only thing the OP has said is that the new version of OS X doesn't have features that wow him. He can't tell you what features he wants, what's innovative, only that (at best) he'd know it when he saw it.

Three points:

1. New features like file systems and other major changes takes YEARS to develop and validate. BTRFS, even though funded and supported by Oracle, has a taken a long time to come about. There are likely things in the pipeline, they just haven't matured sufficiently yet.

2. Operating systems have become increasingly complex over the years. There is a great deal of functionality in OS X now, and what we are seeing is Apple increasing the modularity of the operating system so that individual components can be improved more efficiently. Low level changes and optimizations, though needed, will never be fully appreciated (until they're gone, see Snow Leopard), but are also in Mountain Lion.

3. The biggest features that wow people most often come with leaps in technology and hardware. Apple is working on pushing these boundaries, but they have to be able to manufacture this new hardware. Adding GUIs, filesystems, etc. was done when there was newer hardware that allowed and necessitated it. iOS devices are a new platform where we can see some of those types of wow features, and are (in Apple's mind I believe) an extension of OS X. It's not about turning OS X into iOS, it's about extending OS X via iOS.

iLog.Genius
Jul 23, 2012, 11:05 PM
I don't think we'll see anything mind blowing until OS 11 or whatever they call it.

sexiewasd
Jul 23, 2012, 11:08 PM
Until you deal with multiple large projects where you want the files organized by project and not by application. The the sandboxed directory fails miserably.

I meant for the app's operating files, what it needs to run. I did not mean user created files. There is no need to have a program's files scattered about making a mess of things, and it really irks me when a program (looking at you iTunes) decides to create it's own file structure in MY home directory.

Take for example Pages, or Numbers, or Coda or "Insert any file editing program here". If your working on say a website your going to have multiple different programs to edit your files. One for PHP, maybe a different editor for JavaScript, and most certainly a different program for images. Maybe they choose to keep track of your files in the app's sandbox'ed directory to keep track of revisions, for example GIMP would store it's XCF files in it's sandbox with autosave (if it were a native app), but then you hit that export button (why have Duplicate, or Save As?) and save the copy to your project that you are keeping elsewhere. iOS has sandboxing, but it also completely lacks user storage space and expandable storage. I don't think that is something we will ever see on OS X.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 03:54 AM
Accessibility is HUGELY important to those who need it. I stopped reading after that. Go use Windows 8 if you don't like OS X anymore, but all you'll find there is an even more blatant gimmick.

I love it when people UNABLE or UNWILLING to read the whole message get all sentimental about a specific statement.

If you had taken a second to understand what I meant, you would see that I have included even "those with special needs" in my comment, JUST to mean that the ML accessibility additions were marginal (a number of additional Braille keyboards and little else), to say the least; and NOT to mean that accessibility as such is useless - I would NEVER make such a crazy absolute statement.

So before making idiotic comments, try to read the whole message and understand its context...whether you have special needs or not.

steve-p
Jul 24, 2012, 04:46 AM
This I know, but the op stated that if you get an after market SSD it will not work. My MBA has a drive from owc. I don't understand why power nap won't work. Nor do I believe it really.

I suspect it's true that it won't officially work, even though it should. In the same way that TRIM should work, and can be hacked to work, but isn't officially supported. Apple may say they change the firmware on their own SSDs to support TRIM and Power Nap etc to make it work 100% reliably. I'm sure most of us suspect that all they actually do is change the vendor name to "APPLE" so they can check for it and exclude features on 3rd party hardware.

----------

Unfortunately, these people ignore that probably over 95% of my thousands of posts have always been rabidly pro-Apple.
Yeah, what's going on? Have you had a bump on the head :)

tekno
Jul 24, 2012, 04:47 AM
Moreover, I have converted more than 15 people over the last 5 years to Mac - and none of them are ever going back to the sad world of Windows.


The church of Apple is alive and well.


Am I gonna buy it? Probably yes

If you feel so strongly, speak with your wallet and don't give Apple the money. If Apple see strong sales figures, that's confirmation for them that what they're doing is what people want.

Pressure
Jul 24, 2012, 06:06 AM
I just want to correct a misconception.

Bill Gates never said anything regarding 640KB being enough for everyone.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Now proceed with baseless opinions and arguments, everyone is allowed to have them after all ;)

the8thark
Jul 24, 2012, 06:11 AM
I will comment on all the points listed by the OP.

1 - Accessibility
Not needed by most people agreed. But for those who do needed they would be so thankful to have it. I know people who are poor of sight or hearing who use Macs and love these improvements. Great improvements I think.

2 - AirPlay Mirroring
An evolution we all saw coming and very well needed.

3 - Auto Save
This was done very well in Lion. Just a small minority decided to hate it. So it seems Apple is trying to cater to this vocal minority here. That's good. I did like the prompt to save on quitting an app.

4 - Built-in Sharing
I probably won't ever use it. But some people will. A little meh for me. But I'm sure someone will get a use out of it.

5 - Calendar
Hopefully they integrate calendar properly with our other devices through iCloud. If so a bug plus to me.

6 - Contacts
I have not had groups, would be nice I guess but I don't have tons of contacts that I need to group them. A little list does me fine, but for those with tons of contacts it would be useful.

7 - Dashboard
Never used iOS that much but on the OS X side being able to right click a widget and have it removed or moved around the screen would streamline the process of widget management a lot. If ML does not include this I'll be surely letting Apple know about it.

8 - Dictation
The visually impaired would love this feature. I'm all for making OS X more accessible to everyone in the community. Props to Apple for doing this.

9 - Dictionary
Why should I have to google up words for their meaning. I should have the dictionary totally integrated into the OS. And it looks like ML is doing this. Very well done.

10 - Facebook
I dunno whether to smile or cringe at this one. I think the principle of bringing people together facebook does well. But the interface used to do so is terrible. Mark Z needs to take a leaf out of OS X or iOS and make facebook fit into our lives. I should not have to change how I do things just for facebook. So I have very mixed feelings about this one.

11 - Features for China
The original poster does not get it with this point.
1 billion potential Apple customers. Apple's biggest market. The place most Apple products are made. In Chinese Foxconn factories. So it's wise not to piss off the people in your biggest potential market. And with how strict the Chinese government is these days it's best to try and stay on their side too.
If you are CHinese good. If you're not, then think of it as keeping Apple the most valuable company in the world, so good for you too.

12 - Finder
The base finder itself, and the arrow cursor itself was such an innovation in 1984 or whenever it was invented by Apple. It's stayed in roughly the same format it's always been till this very day. No other company has really bettered the finder. And Apple sees no need to really revolutionise it. As it still works very well. And in part I agree. But on the other hand Apple needs to take a stand and say we are revolutionising it. Tough choice to make. Leave it as is and people are happy cause it's the part of OS X that most people are familiar with. CHange it up and make it all new and a lot of people will go wtf. But if the change is done well everyone could learn the new finder and be happy with it. Maybe.

13 - Game Center
Macs are not known as gaming machines. They can game well but this will help the iOS crowd have some familiarity when they game on OS X.

14 - Gatekeeper
Great. Apple = walled garden. But that is old news, we all know this. And bringing it to OS X, I'm sure 95% of OS X users won't even know the difference. And I'm sure the 5% who do care will have the option to turn it off. Well hopefully.

15 - iCloud
Tweaks are good. better then no tweaks right?

16 - Launchpad
You should have commented more. For people new to OS X search would be great. And cause I don't there is a way to move an app from one launchpad page to another, a search would be good if you have many launchpad pages. In saying this I never use launchpad. But if it was fixed up I just might.

17 - Mac App Store
An update to an App you can only get with the OS. For those with very good internet, auto downloading app updates would be very nice.

18 - Mail
VIPs - useless, we already have email flags.
Notifications - Great to be able to get rid of growl
Inline search, good.

19 - Messages
I can message iOS devices from my Mac now? Two thumbs up for this. Since many of my friends have iOS devices I won't have to pay for smsing them anymore.

20 - Notes
Needs copy and paste to be useful.

21 - Notification Center
great. I can finally rid myself of growl.

22 - Photo Booth
The first App every new to Mac person uses. A great way to show off Macs to people. Updates here though seemingly insignificant actually do have some use.

23 - Power Nap
I will never use it. But for those who will, they'll love it,

24 - Preview
Nice I guess.

25 - QuickTime X
Will it be able to play Midi files now? Because quicktime 7 in Lion plays them all buggy like. Otherwise it'll be jsut as good as on Lion.

26 - I am getting tired of typing, so see 21 above - rating: 0/2
OP is getting lazy.

27 - "Password Autofill"?
I am against this. It opens up the Mac to security risks. Sure with autofill it stops keylogging software but if someone uses your Mac on your account they can use things cause of the auto passwords. Makes it all the more important to have multiple user accounts set up if anyone else is to use your Mac. More hassle then necessary but a must I guess.

28 - Security
ML to Lion is like SL to Leo. They are evolution not revolution. Very good improvements there. 95% of users won't even realise this is happening. And the other 5% can deal with it however they want to.

29 - System
Nice fixes here, I agree with you about the 2nd monitor issue, that needs a fix though.

30 - TextEdit
I use that little app all the time so improvements here are very welcome.

31 - Time Machine
Multiple locations instead of one location after another? If this saves time backing up then sure. If not then I dunno.

32 - Twitter
I hate twitter. I dislike using it. For many many reasons. Pointless garbage in my mind. If I was Apple I'd somehow buy it and pay out everyone there and disband the company.
But some people like twitter I guess and would be happy here.

Now YOU do the math and tell me who is trolling.
The OP is trolling? Sounds like it.
Sure OS X Mountain Lion does not have many many revolutionary at every turn. But it is a solid release fixing up many things. And for roughly $20 you can't go wrong. For that price it is so so worth it.

dlmart2
Jul 24, 2012, 06:59 AM
I'm going to have to agree with the OP on this. After the 'newness' wears off.. and it does wear off pretty quickly.. say an hour, all we have is a few polished up 'fixes' and what they call 'features' are just 'meh'. ost of which probably should have already been included in iOS and are just now being ported to the desktop.

maflynn
Jul 24, 2012, 07:18 AM
Apple lays foundation and then they build features upon that foundation. Mountain Lion is clean up and polish to features that largely already existed.

Give it time. Be patient Padawan.

That mantra has been uttered since Snow Leopard, so far we keep seeing foundations (snow leopard's foundations, Lions, and not ML).

andybrown44
Jul 24, 2012, 07:49 AM
Integration of iMessage is something I'm really looking forward to, especially once Apple IDs are properly linked to phone numbers.

----------

ML is definitely evolutionary rather than revolutionary, but I really don't want any software company to fundamentally alter their products at each new release. Lots of small changes lead to some quite big changes over time.

There will always be people stuck in the past averse to change, I know plenty of people who don't want to switch from Windows XP because "it works how they want it to".

Krazy Bill
Jul 24, 2012, 07:50 AM
20 - Notes
Needs copy and paste to be useful.My copy of DP4 has copy/paste in the notes app. Are you telling me the GM removed this? :eek:


Now YOU do the math and tell me who is trolling.
The OP is trolling? Sounds like it.

You just did the same thing the OP did. Why does that make him a troll and not you? :)


Apple has been playing safe for too long in my opinion. I'll be sticking with Snow Leopard because it has all the features I need - I tried Lion but it was noticeably slower and reduced my battery life.Surely those of you still clinging to SL have realized that one day you'll have to adapt? It's quite clear the things we dislike in OSX are not going away and OSX 10.9 will not magically revert to the days of old.

The bigger picture for me is not whether I'll upgrade to ML... it's whether I'll even stay with the OSX platform. That's quite the conundrum considering I'm a fan of Apple's hardware and customer service.

AdeFowler
Jul 24, 2012, 07:57 AM
1 - Accessibility - irrelevant for me and most persons out there, including those with special needs - other than 14 additional Braille keyboards and some additional VoiceOver commands, not much to report - rating: 0/2


Stopped reading there.

I’m glad you have no need for improved Accessibility features. I have cerebral palsy and can’t wait to try the new dictation feature. If it works, £13.99 will be a small price to pay.

C.G.B. Spender
Jul 24, 2012, 08:23 AM
Those who don't know me in this forum have been accusing me of behaving like a troll due to my harsh criticism of the soon-to-be-launched ML. Unfortunately, these people ignore that probably over 95% of my thousands of posts have always been rabidly pro-Apple.

Moreover, I have converted more than 15 people over the last 5 years to Mac - and none of them are ever going back to the sad world of Windows.

So what's the problem with my criticism now? The problem is that, in my view, Apple no longer strives to innovate and/or devote the necessary resources for the development of a great OS X desktop experience. Instead, they have decided to take the easy path and simply integrate a bunch of iOS fluff, in total contradiction to the TRUE innovativeness that has put Apple back in the game since 1997.

Worse: most of the pro-ML comments in here tend to state that "no further innovation is expected" since OS X (or Windows) is so "mature". Well, do you remember how cell phones and music players were before the iPhone and iPod? I do. Do you also remember when Bill Gates said that no one would ever need more than 640KB of RAM in their home computers? I also do.

The genius of SJ was exactly to think OUTSIDE the box of mediocrity and come up with totally unexpected steps which, when taken together, would mean sheer innovation instead of continuity. However, the Apple of today has apparently abandoned this track (at least as far as OS X is concerned), focusing instead on doing more of the same. Whether it is a 3D desktop, a totally new file system, a mindblowing Finder interface, new input methods, new metaphors, NONE of these are realized in ML.

But to make such accusations is also an easy way of being termed a "troll". So I have decided to go through each and every one of the 200 "new" features (or chapters containing them) to justify my current state of opposition against ML. This message is, thus, directed at those who don't feel exactly excited about Apple's new release - let's see what we can find out (categorized in terms of innovativeness/usefulness -> both on a scale of 0 to 5, respectively):

1 - Accessibility - irrelevant for me and most persons out there, including those with special needs - other than 14 additional Braille keyboards and some additional VoiceOver commands, not much to report - rating: 0/2

2 - AirPlay Mirroring - everyone saw this one coming, probably one of the few truly welcome additions to OS X, even though Audio Support has been there for AGES now - rating: 0/4

3 - Auto Save - "Prompt to save when closing a document"? "Save As" Really? How is this even worth mentioning? The only good thing is that it brings back some requested functionality - rating: 0/1

4 - Built-in Sharing - This mostly annoying feature already existed before for some services and is just being extended. NOTHING else to report - rating: 0/2

5 - Calendar - "Search suggestions"? "Sidebar"? "Notifications"??? Are you joking? I had this with Leopard already! - rating: 0/1

6 - Contacts - "Groups column"? I've had Groups for AGES now! "Share button"? Gimme a break - rating: 0/1

7 - Dashboard - the ONLY notable thing here is the possibility to create widget folders à la iOS, something which may be useful to those having a gazillion widgets on their large screens - rating: 1/2

8 - Dictation - another relatively useful feature (depending on your proficiency of a handful of languages, of course), even though it's just another iOS thing brought over - rating: 1/3

9 - Dictionary - "Swipe between pages"? "New dictionaries" for definitions? - not even worth mentioning, but well... - rating: 0/1

10 - Facebook - yep, Mark Sugarloaf's FB is now part and parcel of OS X. No innovation, just annoying built-in sign-in and sharing tools - rating: 0/2 (for those FB lovers)

11 - Features for China - I am not Chinese, so I couldn't care less. This is the first time a SINGLE country is mentioned as a set of features for OS X. So we have two ratings, one for non-Chinese and another for Chinese users: 0/0 and 0/4

12 - Finder - the poor Finder doesn't get much love, now does it? "Inline progress", "Easy encryption", "Customizable sidebar"? "Tap to Quick Look" has been there since forever with the free MagicPrefs! Advice to Apple: Just buy Pathfinder or TotalFinder and pretend they are your creations - rating: 0/1

13 - Game Center - more iOS fluff, although gamers may like the fairly innovative cross-platform multiplayer support, the only thing worth mentioning here - rating: 2/2

14 - Gatekeeper - just more of the walled garden approach, with increasingly less flexibility as far as your apps are concerned. But increased security is good anyway - rating: 1/3

15 - iCloud - ALL of the features announced there already exist in one form or another. ML just brings a few tweaks here and there. And for those cloud haters, this means absolutely nothing, NADA - rating 0/3 (for cloud users)

16 - Launchpad - "Search"? I do not need to comment further, do I? rating: 0/0

17 - Mac App Store - this is NOT an OS feature, it's an update to an app by itself - "Swipe between pages" and "Automatic downloads" are somehow useful - rating: 0/2

18 - Mail - "VIPs" are like Google "stars"; irrelevant. "Inline search" may be useful. "Notifications" have been with us for years now through Growl and others - rating: 0/2 (for inline search)

19 - Messages - This is just iChat improved, with better iOS/OS X integration, nothing else. And I've heard the NASTY RAM/disk eating bug is still there - rating: 0/3 (for heavy cross-device messaging)

20 - Notes - It seems like this doesn't even have copy/paste enabled. Stickies on steroids and nothing more - rating: 0/1

21 - Notification Center - more iOS fluff/Growl-induced crap - may be useful to some, though - rating: 0/2

22 - Photo Booth - these "new" features are so ridiculous they are not even worth mentioning - rating: 0/0

23 - Power Nap - another one of the FEW true innovations in ML. Of extremely limited usefulness, though (only notebooks with flash storage) - rating 3/2

24 - Preview - Hardly innovative, but "Inline notes" and "insert page from scanner" may be useful to some - rating: 1/2

25 - QuickTime X - irrelevant, apart from slightly faster decoding for some - rating: 0/1

26 - I am getting tired of typing, so see 21 above - rating: 0/2

27 - "Password Autofill"? How is that possibly new? "Smart search" and "Tab view" and "DNT" are improvements, still. Sad to see that the main "innovation" in ML belongs to an autonomous browser - rating: 2/3

28 - Security - I thought "Kernel ASLR" was already in place, but still...more sandboxed apps are also welcome. Innovations? Close to ZERO - rating: 1/3

29 - System - apart from "improved scroll bars" and "drag and drop in screen sharing", NOTHING else needs to be elaborated upon. Not to mention that the "Go full screen on any display" is a pathetic non-fix of the full screen problem in Lion. Sadly, even Windows can do better than that. Don't believe me? Check this AI thread: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/151427/inside-os-x-10-8-mountain-lion-gm-go-full-screen-on-any-display/40 - rating: 1/2

30 - TextEdit - irrelevant improvements - rating: 0/0

31 - Time Machine - "Backup to multiple locations"? Sure, but this doesn't seem to mean multiple drives at the same time - rating: 1/2

32 - Twitter - irrelevant, to say the least - rating: 0/0

Now YOU do the math and tell me who is trolling.

Am I gonna buy it? Probably yes, just as I buy a $20 lunch every day here in Switzerland. Marginal improvements, perhaps a little more speed. Innovation? Excitement? Bragging rights? That "I love Apple" feeling? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Haven’t seen this kind of irrelevant whining in quite some time. Whining, more whining followed by more whining. Nothing about what innovation is or how to innovate, just crappy „critique“.


All in all rating: irrelevant.

heisenberg123
Jul 24, 2012, 08:26 AM
Haven’t seen this kind of irrelevant whining in quite some time. Whining, more whining followed by more whining. Nothing about what innovation is or how to innovate, just crappy „critique“.


All in all rating: irrelevant.

followed up by ill buy it on launch day


who writes a 200+ word rant on how crap a product is and follow it up by saying ill buy it the day its available?

Aidoneus
Jul 24, 2012, 08:33 AM
Those who don't know me in this forum have been accusing me of behaving like a troll due to my harsh criticism of the soon-to-be-launched ML. Unfortunately, these people ignore that probably over 95% of my thousands of posts have always been rabidly pro-Apple.

Moreover, I have converted more than 15 people over the last 5 years to Mac - and none of them are ever going back to the sad world of Windows.

So what's the problem with my criticism now? The problem is that, in my view, Apple no longer strives to innovate and/or devote the necessary resources for the development of a great OS X desktop experience. Instead, they have decided to take the easy path and simply integrate a bunch of iOS fluff, in total contradiction to the TRUE innovativeness that has put Apple back in the game since 1997.

Worse: most of the pro-ML comments in here tend to state that "no further innovation is expected" since OS X (or Windows) is so "mature". Well, do you remember how cell phones and music players were before the iPhone and iPod? I do. Do you also remember when Bill Gates said that no one would ever need more than 640KB of RAM in their home computers? I also do.

The genius of SJ was exactly to think OUTSIDE the box of mediocrity and come up with totally unexpected steps which, when taken together, would mean sheer innovation instead of continuity. However, the Apple of today has apparently abandoned this track (at least as far as OS X is concerned), focusing instead on doing more of the same. Whether it is a 3D desktop, a totally new file system, a mindblowing Finder interface, new input methods, new metaphors, NONE of these are realized in ML.

But to make such accusations is also an easy way of being termed a "troll". So I have decided to go through each and every one of the 200 "new" features (or chapters containing them) to justify my current state of opposition against ML. This message is, thus, directed at those who don't feel exactly excited about Apple's new release - let's see what we can find out (categorized in terms of innovativeness/usefulness -> both on a scale of 0 to 5, respectively):

1 - Accessibility - irrelevant for me and most persons out there, including those with special needs - other than 14 additional Braille keyboards and some additional VoiceOver commands, not much to report - rating: 0/2

2 - AirPlay Mirroring - everyone saw this one coming, probably one of the few truly welcome additions to OS X, even though Audio Support has been there for AGES now - rating: 0/4

3 - Auto Save - "Prompt to save when closing a document"? "Save As" Really? How is this even worth mentioning? The only good thing is that it brings back some requested functionality - rating: 0/1

4 - Built-in Sharing - This mostly annoying feature already existed before for some services and is just being extended. NOTHING else to report - rating: 0/2

5 - Calendar - "Search suggestions"? "Sidebar"? "Notifications"??? Are you joking? I had this with Leopard already! - rating: 0/1

6 - Contacts - "Groups column"? I've had Groups for AGES now! "Share button"? Gimme a break - rating: 0/1

7 - Dashboard - the ONLY notable thing here is the possibility to create widget folders à la iOS, something which may be useful to those having a gazillion widgets on their large screens - rating: 1/2

8 - Dictation - another relatively useful feature (depending on your proficiency of a handful of languages, of course), even though it's just another iOS thing brought over - rating: 1/3

9 - Dictionary - "Swipe between pages"? "New dictionaries" for definitions? - not even worth mentioning, but well... - rating: 0/1

10 - Facebook - yep, Mark Sugarloaf's FB is now part and parcel of OS X. No innovation, just annoying built-in sign-in and sharing tools - rating: 0/2 (for those FB lovers)

11 - Features for China - I am not Chinese, so I couldn't care less. This is the first time a SINGLE country is mentioned as a set of features for OS X. So we have two ratings, one for non-Chinese and another for Chinese users: 0/0 and 0/4

12 - Finder - the poor Finder doesn't get much love, now does it? "Inline progress", "Easy encryption", "Customizable sidebar"? "Tap to Quick Look" has been there since forever with the free MagicPrefs! Advice to Apple: Just buy Pathfinder or TotalFinder and pretend they are your creations - rating: 0/1

13 - Game Center - more iOS fluff, although gamers may like the fairly innovative cross-platform multiplayer support, the only thing worth mentioning here - rating: 2/2

14 - Gatekeeper - just more of the walled garden approach, with increasingly less flexibility as far as your apps are concerned. But increased security is good anyway - rating: 1/3

15 - iCloud - ALL of the features announced there already exist in one form or another. ML just brings a few tweaks here and there. And for those cloud haters, this means absolutely nothing, NADA - rating 0/3 (for cloud users)

16 - Launchpad - "Search"? I do not need to comment further, do I? rating: 0/0

17 - Mac App Store - this is NOT an OS feature, it's an update to an app by itself - "Swipe between pages" and "Automatic downloads" are somehow useful - rating: 0/2

18 - Mail - "VIPs" are like Google "stars"; irrelevant. "Inline search" may be useful. "Notifications" have been with us for years now through Growl and others - rating: 0/2 (for inline search)

19 - Messages - This is just iChat improved, with better iOS/OS X integration, nothing else. And I've heard the NASTY RAM/disk eating bug is still there - rating: 0/3 (for heavy cross-device messaging)

20 - Notes - It seems like this doesn't even have copy/paste enabled. Stickies on steroids and nothing more - rating: 0/1

21 - Notification Center - more iOS fluff/Growl-induced crap - may be useful to some, though - rating: 0/2

22 - Photo Booth - these "new" features are so ridiculous they are not even worth mentioning - rating: 0/0

23 - Power Nap - another one of the FEW true innovations in ML. Of extremely limited usefulness, though (only notebooks with flash storage) - rating 3/2

24 - Preview - Hardly innovative, but "Inline notes" and "insert page from scanner" may be useful to some - rating: 1/2

25 - QuickTime X - irrelevant, apart from slightly faster decoding for some - rating: 0/1

26 - I am getting tired of typing, so see 21 above - rating: 0/2

27 - "Password Autofill"? How is that possibly new? "Smart search" and "Tab view" and "DNT" are improvements, still. Sad to see that the main "innovation" in ML belongs to an autonomous browser - rating: 2/3

28 - Security - I thought "Kernel ASLR" was already in place, but still...more sandboxed apps are also welcome. Innovations? Close to ZERO - rating: 1/3

29 - System - apart from "improved scroll bars" and "drag and drop in screen sharing", NOTHING else needs to be elaborated upon. Not to mention that the "Go full screen on any display" is a pathetic non-fix of the full screen problem in Lion. Sadly, even Windows can do better than that. Don't believe me? Check this AI thread: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/151427/inside-os-x-10-8-mountain-lion-gm-go-full-screen-on-any-display/40 - rating: 1/2

30 - TextEdit - irrelevant improvements - rating: 0/0

31 - Time Machine - "Backup to multiple locations"? Sure, but this doesn't seem to mean multiple drives at the same time - rating: 1/2

32 - Twitter - irrelevant, to say the least - rating: 0/0

Now YOU do the math and tell me who is trolling.

Am I gonna buy it? Probably yes, just as I buy a $20 lunch every day here in Switzerland. Marginal improvements, perhaps a little more speed. Innovation? Excitement? Bragging rights? That "I love Apple" feeling? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Mountain Lion is an A+ update.

xav8tor
Jul 24, 2012, 08:49 AM
I love it when people UNABLE or UNWILLING to read the whole message get all sentimental about a specific statement.

If you had taken a second to understand what I meant, you would see that I have included even "those with special needs" in my comment, JUST to mean that the ML accessibility additions were marginal (a number of additional Braille keyboards and little else), to say the least; and NOT to mean that accessibility as such is useless - I would NEVER make such a crazy absolute statement.

So before making idiotic comments, try to read the whole message and understand its context...whether you have special needs or not.

Please tell me you are not actually an attorney.

talmy
Jul 24, 2012, 09:03 AM
I meant for the app's operating files, what it needs to run. I did not mean user created files. There is no need to have a program's files scattered about making a mess of things, and it really irks me when a program (looking at you iTunes) decides to create it's own file structure in MY home directory.

Mac App Store applications are self-contained (for program files) and are sandboxed as far as folders they can use without user intervention (this allowed so they can access user's data files anywhere explicitly). This includes the locations used for autosave (which has changed for ML).

Take for example Pages, or Numbers, or Coda or "Insert any file editing program here". If your working on say a website your going to have multiple different programs to edit your files. One for PHP, maybe a different editor for JavaScript, and most certainly a different program for images.

Absolutely!

Maybe they choose to keep track of your files in the app's sandbox'ed directory to keep track of revisions, for example GIMP would store it's XCF files in it's sandbox with autosave (if it were a native app), but then you hit that export button (why have Duplicate, or Save As?) and save the copy to your project that you are keeping elsewhere. iOS has sandboxing, but it also completely lacks user storage space and expandable storage. I don't think that is something we will ever see on OS X.

Versions, however, are saved using an Sqlite database shared among all applications. Apple's guidelines state that "Export" saves the document in a format other than normal, which is what your are saying. If you continue editing, you are editing the original. "Save as" (returning in ML) is for saving a copy in its current state and format. If you continue editing, you are editing the copy. If you do a "Duplicate" you have windows for both the original and the copy, so you can save (and name) the copy and continue editing the original. So all three are distinctive.

----------

My copy of DP4 has copy/paste in the notes app. Are you telling me the GM removed this? :eek:

It most certainly does have copy/paste (as well as drag/drop).

The OP said it was "Stickies on steroids" and gave it a low score. While I still like stickies (for the color coding, mainly, and I hate the skeuomorphism of Notes) the real steroid here is the synchronization among devices.

the8thark
Jul 24, 2012, 09:05 AM
My copy of DP4 has copy/paste in the notes app. Are you telling me the GM removed this? :eek:
I've only used on like DP 1-2 at a friends place. He's a dev. I am not. I have no idea about the GM.

You just did the same thing the OP did. Why does that make him a troll and not you? :)
It makes us both trolls I guess. But it's all fun.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 09:59 AM
Please tell me you are not actually an attorney.

Of course I am, and obviously I did NOT mean "unable" in a special needs context.

I meant UNABLE as in "reacting blindly and in a rabidly sentimental way after reading one statement out of context".

If this is not clear enough for you, I do not know what can be. No one in his sane mind would state that accessibility per se is irrelevant (I also have special needs people in my own family, genius).

My critique was that Apple could have done MUCH more than adding a few more Braille keyboards in a major OS X update (and the rating reflects that: ZERO innovation, limited ADDED usefulness to those in need). They have always been at the forefront of accessibility features since the early 80s.

But then, when someone with bad eyesight (coming from Windows) asks me to maximize UI elements and I tell him he can't do it in a general way on OS X, what the hell is one supposed to think?

That "Launchpad launcher" is more important? So chill out and make informed comments instead of reacting as an animal.

As for my point on SSDs: I got this information from a developer in the Apple Support Forums - third-party SSDs are NOT supported by PowerNap (whether this is true or if a hack can solve it, I have no idea as I don't even have a notebook).

Paradoxally
Jul 24, 2012, 10:07 AM
followed up by ill buy it on launch day


who writes a 200+ word rant on how crap a product is and follow it up by saying ill buy it the day its available?

Talking is easy, doing so is harder. But you, OP, are what we in western culture call a hypocrite. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. If you like it, you buy it...I mean what's the difficulty here?

Don't teeter around on both sides of the fence. Make a statement and stick with it, even if it's as blunt as 'mountain lion is irrelevant, I'm sticking with snow leopard, bye' than a 3000 word post as to how terrible Mountain Lion is, until reading 'oh, but I'll buy it'...literally just no words for that statement.

I was very critical of Lion but I ACTUALLY sent feedback to Apple in the hopes that some of the 'problems' would get fixed (like tons of other people did) - and one of them did, Exposé like windows in MC. I suggest you submit that 'rant' to Apple and if one of their employees reads your everlasting non-constructive post, then they are well and truly blessed with the gift of patience.

mrjayviper
Jul 24, 2012, 10:17 AM
Will be getting ML once it's released but my MBP will be seeing win8 once it's out!

thejadedmonkey
Jul 24, 2012, 10:24 AM
I'm buying ML because it fixes the mistakes of Lion. The fact that I have to spend $20 to fix Apple's mistakes, when I have a copy of SL that - if it wasn't artificially limited - would work just fine, is obnoxious.

And that's my word of the day for Apple: Obnoxious.

Patriot24
Jul 24, 2012, 10:34 AM
Apple has clearly moved to the "tick, tock" model for both hardware and software.

Mountain Lion is decidedly a "tock". 10.9 will hopefully be the "tick".

xav8tor
Jul 24, 2012, 10:47 AM
Of course I am, and obviously I did NOT mean "unable" in a special needs context.

I meant UNABLE as in "reacting blindly and in a rabidly sentimental way after reading one statement out of context".

If this is not clear enough for you, I do not know what can be. No one in his sane mind would state that accessibility per se is irrelevant (I also have special needs people in my own family, genius).

Thanks for calling me a genius. Despite stellar performance in law school and litigation, in all modesty, I don't think I'm nearly that smart. However, I am reasonably certain that, if you presented the passage I quoted in a US court, and argued your position in just about any context, you'd have a chance of somewhere between a slim and none convincing a judge/jury that the plain meaning of your words conveys anything other than callous indifference to the needs or opinions of others.

thejadedmonkey
Jul 24, 2012, 10:52 AM
Thanks for calling me a genius. Despite stellar performance in law school and litigation, in all modesty, I don't think I'm nearly that smart. However, I am reasonably certain that, if you presented the passage I quoted in a US court, and argued your position in just about any context, you'd have a chance of somewhere between a slim and none convincing a judge/jury that the plain meaning of your words convey anything other than callous indifference to the needs or opinions of others.

I'm pretty sure I agree with BRLawyer on this one. The fact is, accessibility options are useless to 99% of the general public, and aren't worth anything for the majority of people.

For you to ignore an entire post based off of your disagreement with the first bullet point shows your ignorance. If a lawyer in a courtroom provides a piece of evidence that doesn't hold, does that immediately invalidate the entire argument, or just that single point of the argument?

xav8tor
Jul 24, 2012, 11:01 AM
I'm pretty sure I agree with BRLawyer on this one. The fact is, accessibility options are useless to 99% of the general public, and aren't worth anything for the majority of people.

For you to ignore an entire post based off of your disagreement with the first bullet point shows your ignorance. If a lawyer in a courtroom provides a piece of evidence that doesn't hold, does that immediately invalidate the entire argument, or just that single point of the argument?

Although others ignored the rest of his post, I did not. I read every word. In fact, if you read my first response, you'll see that I generally agree that OS X is not moving in the right direction, whatever that may be.

Like the OP, you too miss the point. Accessibility features are vital...period. Even though 99% (a number out of thin air by the way) may not use them, you still benefit from their presence. If those with disabilities were not able to utilize computers, many would be underemployed, unable to use the Internet in their personal lives, etc., thereby increasing the burden on society in the form of taxes, additional public services, and so on.

In reality, "slightly" more, as in exponentially more, people benefit from accessibility features:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2004/feb04/02-02adultuserbenefitspr.aspx

I guess they don't know what they are talking about either.

For the TLDNR crowd:

"Overview
The accessibility market is global and it continues to grow. 57% of adult computer users could benefit from the use of accessible technology.
Research commissioned by Microsoft and conducted by Forrester Research, Inc. shows:
17% were very likely to benefit
40% were likely to benefit
43% were not likely to benefit
Study Results
Over half of your customers may be impacted by this!"

BR...Your witness.

Eidorian
Jul 24, 2012, 11:07 AM
I dont agree with the OP at all but Powernap only works with the MBA gen 2 and newer and the rMBP.
Image (http://images.anandtech.com/doci/5981/DSC_7260_575px.JPG)I was strongly under the impression that PowerNap was just Apple's buzzword for Intel's newer sleep services under Sandy/Ivy Bridge + Intel 7 Series chipset. The chipset being the important factor.

TPadden
Jul 24, 2012, 11:10 AM
Talking is easy, doing so is harder. But you, OP, are what we in western culture call a hypocrite. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. If you like it, you buy it...I mean what's the difficulty here? ......

A lot like saying: Time is money; if you don't like what he posted don't reply ...... :D

nuckinfutz
Jul 24, 2012, 11:31 AM
I was strongly under the impression that PowerNap was just Apple's buzzword for Intel's newer sleep services under Sandy/Ivy Bridge + Intel 7 Series chipset. The chipset being the important factor.

Yup. Appears so

http://www.intel.com/support/services/smartconnect/sb/CS-033108.htm

Eidorian
Jul 24, 2012, 11:39 AM
Yup. Appears so

http://www.intel.com/support/services/smartconnect/sb/CS-033108.htmThough given the Apple-branded SSD nonsense being tossed around, it makes you wonder why it is not mentioned for the other Intel 7 Series based hardware with BTO Apple SSDs...

thejadedmonkey
Jul 24, 2012, 12:04 PM
Although others ignored the rest of his post, I did not. I read every word. In fact, if you read my first response, you'll see that I generally agree that OS X is not moving in the right direction, whatever that may be.

Like the OP, you too miss the point. Accessibility features are vital...period. Even though 99% (a number out of thin air by the way) may not use them, you still benefit from their presence. If those with disabilities were not able to utilize computers, many would be underemployed, unable to use the Internet in their personal lives, etc., thereby increasing the burden on society in the form of taxes, additional public services, and so on.

In reality, "slightly" more, as in exponentially more, people benefit from accessibility features:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2004/feb04/02-02adultuserbenefitspr.aspx

I guess they don't know what they are talking about either.

For the TLDNR crowd:

"Overview
The accessibility market is global and it continues to grow. 57% of adult computer users could benefit from the use of accessible technology.
Research commissioned by Microsoft and conducted by Forrester Research, Inc. shows:
17% were very likely to benefit
40% were likely to benefit
43% were not likely to benefit
Study Results
Over half of your customers may be impacted by this!"

BR...Your witness.

Like you said, I pulled the number 99% out of thin air. However, that doesn't invalidate my point. Additionally, I never said that accessibility was unimportant to everyone, rather I was agreeing with BRLawyer when he said that the improvements to accessibility weren't exciting. Not that all accessibility features were useless, but that the improvements weren't great.

So lets get rid of the straw man and focus on the point:

For you to ignore an entire post based off of your disagreement with the first bullet point shows your ignorance. If a lawyer in a courtroom provides a piece of evidence that doesn't hold, does that immediately invalidate the entire argument, or just that single point of the argument?

xav8tor
Jul 24, 2012, 12:18 PM
Like you said, I pulled the number 99% out of thin air. However, that doesn't invalidate my point. Additionally, I never said that accessibility was unimportant to everyone, rather I was agreeing with BRLawyer when he said that the improvements to accessibility weren't exciting. Not that all accessibility features were useless, but that the improvements weren't great.

So lets get rid of the straw man and focus on the point:

As I've said twice now, I agree OS X is not moving in the direction I would like to see it go. It is getting dumbed down...considerably. And in answer to you embedded quote that didn't copy, as I said in response to you already, I read the whole thing, and no, normally, invalidation of one (distinctly separate) claim doesn't invalidate the other. He does make some good points, but the manner in which they were presented, and subsequently defended, unfortunately waters them down in the eyes of the majority.

nuckinfutz
Jul 24, 2012, 12:24 PM
There is nothing wrong with Mountain Lion.


This thread has devolved into a bitching session about Accessibility. This isn't surprising because the mere attempt at telling someone that one feature is more important than another is self centered and invites a fight.

The more constructive post would have mentioned existing features and then discussed what features are missing and why such features deserved to be in the Operating System.

thejadedmonkey
Jul 24, 2012, 01:55 PM
My point (apologies if it got muddled) was simply the bottom part of what you said:

He does make some good points, but the manner in which they were presented, and subsequently defended, unfortunately waters them down in the eyes of the majority.

And it annoyed me that another poster was saying that the lack of understanding for the first bullet was grounds for ignoring the entire list.

Justinhub2003
Jul 24, 2012, 02:03 PM
You do realize that this is only a years worth of work?

Its pretty awesome that Apple has been able to cram all these features into a single year. I mean it took MS 3-4 years to develop the radical changes from Win 7 to Win 8. This is 1 year from Lion to ML.

You need to keep that in Mind. Because apple switched to a yearly update cycle you no longer see drastic changes however in 3 years add up every thing from ML to the 2013 release to 2014 it will end up being a lot of changes from a 3 year release cycle standpoint.


I mean you Act like Lion has been out for 3 years and this was all you got. Its a year old and for me was fine. i never had any issues with Lion

nuckinfutz
Jul 24, 2012, 02:16 PM
You need to keep that in Mind. Because apple switched to a yearly update cycle you no longer see drastic changes however in 3 years add up every thing from ML to the 2013 release to 2014 it will end up being a lot of changes from a 3 year release cycle standpoint.


I think this is beneficial for consumers. The longer the development cycle the more exiting the features can be but this comes at a cost because it widens the chasm that developers face with regard to updating their applications.

So in the end longer cycles lead to more fragmentation of the OS install base making it more difficult for developers to leverage new frameworks. It also means the OS upgrade is likely more expensive which slows adoption.

I think Apple has it right, get the updates out in 12-18 months and make it a no brainer for developers to support the new features.

While the Mac press pontificates over the iosification of OS X they aren't seeing the end game from a developers perspective. Why wouldn't developer making games on iOS that support Game Center want access to the same on OS X?

C.G.B. Spender
Jul 24, 2012, 02:21 PM
There is nothing wrong with Mountain Lion.


This thread has devolved into a bitching session about Accessibility. This isn't surprising because the mere attempt at telling someone that one feature is more important than another is self centered and invites a fight.

The more constructive post would have mentioned existing features and then discussed what features are missing and why such features deserved to be in the Operating System.

I guess rest of the Apple world will just use it and won’t bother like this. Including me.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 02:39 PM
Talking is easy, doing so is harder. But you, OP, are what we in western culture call a hypocrite. If you don't like it, you don't buy it. If you like it, you buy it...I mean what's the difficulty here?

Don't teeter around on both sides of the fence. Make a statement and stick with it, even if it's as blunt as 'mountain lion is irrelevant, I'm sticking with snow leopard, bye' than a 3000 word post as to how terrible Mountain Lion is, until reading 'oh, but I'll buy it'...literally just no words for that statement.

I was very critical of Lion but I ACTUALLY sent feedback to Apple in the hopes that some of the 'problems' would get fixed (like tons of other people did) - and one of them did, Exposé like windows in MC. I suggest you submit that 'rant' to Apple and if one of their employees reads your everlasting non-constructive post, then they are well and truly blessed with the gift of patience.

No hypocrisy intended, just the fact that I will be paying a single lunch's money to have a slightly better Lion (I am long past SL, fortunately or not) - and NOT because I feel excited about a truly innovative version of OS X.

I know, it may sound a bit nuanced; but the outcome is still perfectly logical. I can criticize something and still buy it because of its marginal value - just like I eat a crappy $20 lunch every now and then at my local cafeteria.

And yes, I have sent Apple various pieces of feedback over many years. :rolleyes:

----------

Although others ignored the rest of his post, I did not. I read every word. In fact, if you read my first response, you'll see that I generally agree that OS X is not moving in the right direction, whatever that may be.

Like the OP, you too miss the point. Accessibility features are vital...period. Even though 99% (a number out of thin air by the way) may not use them, you still benefit from their presence. If those with disabilities were not able to utilize computers, many would be underemployed, unable to use the Internet in their personal lives, etc., thereby increasing the burden on society in the form of taxes, additional public services, and so on.

In reality, "slightly" more, as in exponentially more, people benefit from accessibility features:

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2004/feb04/02-02adultuserbenefitspr.aspx

I guess they don't know what they are talking about either.

For the TLDNR crowd:

"Overview
The accessibility market is global and it continues to grow. 57% of adult computer users could benefit from the use of accessible technology.
Research commissioned by Microsoft and conducted by Forrester Research, Inc. shows:
17% were very likely to benefit
40% were likely to benefit
43% were not likely to benefit
Study Results
Over half of your customers may be impacted by this!"

BR...Your witness.

Xav8tor, I am gonna try to "tone it down" a little bit and reiterate, once more, that your reaction is totally out of context for the simple reason that I've never intended to mean "accessibility is irrelevant" in its absolute sense.

Whether you are able to see my intention or not is beside the point - perhaps I expressed myself in harsher terms than necessary to make it clear that ML could have been MUCH more than what it is right now. Or that its "new" accessibility features are, in my view, little more than a few added Braille keyboards and some preference pane tweaks.

Now of course, if YOU are the beneficiary of THAT newly-added Braille keyboard, you'll of course enjoy the added compatibility and love this move by Apple. And this is why I suggested a 0/2 rating (ZERO innovation, LIMITED marginal usefulness to those helped by it). But for someone used to Apple computers since the 80s, I can't help but express my disappointment at the stream of MARGINAL improvements and iOS-driven dumbing down since SL itself and Lion.

Apple could have added SL, Lion AND ML all together, and the overall value still wouldn't, feature-wise, be very high compared to the advancements brought by Tiger and Leopard, for example.

You and others may, of course, disagree (and I appreciate the different interesting opinions here); I just needed to get that sentiment out of my chest as well.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 02:51 PM
And here is where I found that PowerNap won't be available for third-party SSDs:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4107618?start=0&tstart=0

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1383560

Not to mention Apple's own statement: "built-in SSDs".

Rennir
Jul 24, 2012, 02:52 PM
Stopped reading after this. Irrelevance to you does in no way shape or form equal irrelevance of Mountain Lion to the rest of the world. This first point, the very first point, clearly demonstrates what your attempt is here.

A change in the thread title would be appropriate to ensure that MacRumors readers realize this thread is about the 'Irrelevance of ML to BRLawyer' before proceeding to waste time reading it.

But accessibility isn't innovative. And exactly what functions of accessibility do you or 90% of OS X users use?

xav8tor
Jul 24, 2012, 05:50 PM
Xav8tor, I am gonna try to "tone it down" a little bit and reiterate, once more, that your reaction is totally out of context for the simple reason that I've never intended to mean "accessibility is irrelevant" in its absolute sense.

Whether you are able to see my intention or not is beside the point - perhaps I expressed myself in harsher terms than necessary to make it clear that ML could have been MUCH more than what it is right now. Or that its "new" accessibility features are, in my view, little more than a few added Braille keyboards and some preference pane tweaks.

Now of course, if YOU are the beneficiary of THAT newly-added Braille keyboard, you'll of course enjoy the added compatibility and love this move by Apple. And this is why I suggested a 0/2 rating (ZERO innovation, LIMITED marginal usefulness to those helped by it). But for someone used to Apple computers since the 80s, I can't help but express my disappointment at the stream of MARGINAL improvements and iOS-driven dumbing down since SL itself and Lion.

Apple could have added SL, Lion AND ML all together, and the overall value still wouldn't, feature-wise, be very high compared to the advancements brought by Tiger and Leopard, for example.

You and others may, of course, disagree (and I appreciate the different interesting opinions here); I just needed to get that sentiment out of my chest as well.

Fair enough. No qualms whatsoever with your well reasoned reply. And, I wholeheartedly agree on the dumbing down of OS X. Some of your other points were certainly valid too. Wait until tomorrow. I can all but guarantee there will numerous complaints about some other "improvements" they did incorporate.

On the other hand, as I said in the beginning, unofficially supporting the new Nvidia cards alone is worth a lot more than 20 bucks to many Mac Pro users who do 3D, video, or sim work (or gamers for that matter). The 5870 is what, nearly three year old technology now? Those who seem to be in the know have said that the drivers are more likely the unintended byproduct of supporting the Retina MacBook rather than an intentional global update to the OS. I hope they're wrong. If Apple breaks that in an update, I'll keep my iGadgets and AAPL shares, but my Mac Pro will be on eBay the next day!

linuxcooldude
Jul 24, 2012, 06:54 PM
Apple could have added SL, Lion AND ML all together, and the overall value still wouldn't, feature-wise, be very high compared to the advancements brought by Tiger and Leopard, for example.

Some people tend to only see whats on the outside without looking bellow the surface. In recent years quite a few important aspects of Mac OSX have come out like AV foundation, Grand Central Dispatch and Opencl.

Some only care about the bling bling, but not what it takes to get there.

Icaras
Jul 24, 2012, 08:06 PM
I think people are taking this upgrade way too seriously considering the following:

1.) It's the cheapest OS X upgrade in the history of Apple

2.) It's released only a year after Lion was.

To put things into perspective, every OS X release before Lion took approximately 2-3 years between releases, with the exception of 10.1 to 10.2 (1 year).

Mountain Lion will be a great, affordable upgrade and a nice stepping stone to what I believe will be a more substantial upgrade come 10.9. That said, I don't agree ML deserves such a negative spin. I definitely look forward to tomorrow.

MTD's Mac
Jul 24, 2012, 08:48 PM
I think people are taking this upgrade way too seriously considering the following:

1.) It's the cheapest OS X upgrade in the history of Apple

2.) It's released only a year after Lion was.

To put things into perspective, every OS X release before Lion took approximately 2-3 years between releases, with the exception of 10.1 to 10.2 (1 year).

Mountain Lion will be a great, affordable upgrade and a nice stepping stone to what I believe will be a more substantial upgrade come 10.9. That said, I don't agree ML deserves such a negative spin. I definitely look forward to tomorrow.

These are the points that (along with the completely arbitrary rating system and selection of features) make the OP entirely useless and without credibility.

One key issue with judging features as "innovative" or not has to do with whether they're part of the OS, or only available from 3rd party software (which requires researching, paying for, downloading, learning to use, and setting up). I don't expect to use Notifications much, but it's pretty revolutionary in an OS as a comprehensive, built-in tool that does what several OS features and 3rd party apps could sort of do in the past. The OP mentions Growl as a replacement, making Notifications non-innovative. Untrue. I was never going to bother installing Growl, or even learning whether it works well or not. I KNOW Notifications will work well, and handle all my Mac apps.

sesnir
Jul 24, 2012, 09:30 PM
I stopped reading the OP around #20, after it became clear that he not only has never used Mountain Lion, but hasn't even done his research...

And several features that you find annoying are actually extremely useful to me. Being able to view something in QuickLook or Preview and have a button that lets me share it via email saves me time. Easily a 5 on usefulness.

Launchpad search - it's as quick as spotlight, if not quicker... you just do the launchpad gesture and start typing and it will filter the apps list for you. How is this not useful?

Notes - Sticky notes and nothing more? No copy/paste? Wrong on both counts.

Messages - You think this is just iChat? This should have gotten a 5 in both of your categories, as being able to pick up iMessages from my phone, iPad and now my Mac is insanely useful and revolutionary. Sure, we all saw it coming, but they got it into OS X pretty quick after introducing iMessages in iOS.

Now I do agree that there's no stand-out non-app OS feature that's too revolutionary, but this is a $19.99 annual OS X update. If Messages was merely an Apple app on the App Store, I'd pay $20 for that alone... everything else is a bonus.

scarred
Jul 24, 2012, 09:45 PM
And here is where I found that PowerNap won't be available for third-party SSDs:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4107618?start=0&tstart=0

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1383560

Not to mention Apple's own statement: "built-in SSDs".

Thanks for the link. That blows. Then again, I've never been a fan of the OS going off and doing stuff without me asking, but that is probably due to windows update screwing me over far too many times.

dukebound85
Jul 24, 2012, 09:49 PM
I think people are taking this upgrade way too seriously considering the following:

1.) It's the cheapest OS X upgrade in the history of Apple

2.) It's released only a year after Lion was.

To put things into perspective, every OS X release before Lion took approximately 2-3 years between releases, with the exception of 10.1 to 10.2 (1 year).

Mountain Lion will be a great, affordable upgrade and a nice stepping stone to what I believe will be a more substantial upgrade come 10.9. That said, I don't agree ML deserves such a negative spin. I definitely look forward to tomorrow.

I believe tiger and 10.6 were the longest. I hope osx doesn't turn yearly

Paradoxally
Jul 25, 2012, 07:19 AM
I believe tiger and 10.6 were the longest. I hope osx doesn't turn yearly

It already is yearly.

MartyF81
Jul 25, 2012, 07:27 AM
It is unfortunate that you think your opinion of the value of the features... matters. It does not. Some of the features you deem as irrelevant, are important to others.

Their business is not to cater to fanatics.

rikscha
Jul 25, 2012, 07:38 AM
Rorschach, I have posted elsewhere my multiple suggestions for areas of "innovative" improvement in OS X.

A quick example above is in Finder. Everyone knows a MAJOR revamp has been necessary for years, yet nothing is done by Apple.

At the very least, they could have bought something like Pathfinder and implemented it as part of the system. And if they had thought a little more ahead, perhaps something even more avant-garde like BumpTop.

Exactly, Apple IS thinking outside the box. The problem here, you are not.

Most of your request are very obvious one's and it really reminds me of MS mentality. I don't think you can really create a big picture of the whole thing. It is quite clear I think that Apple is going through a long transition period with iCloud being the answer to the 20year old Window approach (either win or mac os) in the end.

They will not put effort into improving things along the way they probably know of won't be there in the next couple of years anyway. Finder, explorer, great things back in the 90s. Today? Get rid of the legacy already.

iMacFarlane
Jul 25, 2012, 09:41 AM
And ANOTHER reason to be underwhelmed with ML: PowerNap ONLY works with Apple-branded SSDs. So Point 23's rating must be down from 3/2 to 3/1...

That's just flippin' ridiculous. Why wouldn't powernap work on all Apple branded computers?

----------

I think people are taking this upgrade way too seriously considering the following:

1.) It's the cheapest OS X upgrade in the history of Apple

2.) It's released only a year after Lion was.

To put things into perspective, every OS X release before Lion took approximately 2-3 years between releases, with the exception of 10.1 to 10.2 (1 year).

Mountain Lion will be a great, affordable upgrade and a nice stepping stone to what I believe will be a more substantial upgrade come 10.9. That said, I don't agree ML deserves such a negative spin. I definitely look forward to tomorrow.

I hope that Mountain Lion improves on Lion as Windows 7 improved on Windows Vista. Loved Snow Leopard. Lion? Not a fan.

Icaras
Jul 25, 2012, 11:11 AM
That's just flippin' ridiculous. Why wouldn't powernap work on all Apple branded computers?

Unfortunately, that's the case. From Apple's site, at the footnotes at the bottom of the page:

Power Nap requires a Mac notebook with built-in flash storage. May require a firmware update

http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/

Partron22
Jul 25, 2012, 11:20 AM
I think people are taking this upgrade way too seriously considering the following:

1.) It's the cheapest OS X upgrade in the history of Apple
Not quite: (http://www.macmothership.com/maccontent/sys_mac.html)
Apple's policy up to System 6.0.x was that if you owned a Macintosh you could get free system upgrades from your local dealer. 6.0.8 was late 1991.

Senseotech
Jul 25, 2012, 11:23 AM
Not quite: (http://www.macmothership.com/maccontent/sys_mac.html)
6.0.8 was late 1991.

Before being "that guy" and correcting someone, perhaps its best to re-read their post. He said OS X. 6.0.8 is in no way, shape, or form considered OS X.

ksgant
Jul 25, 2012, 11:25 AM
There's not much more you can do to innovate on the desktop. Maybe someday, someone with a totally radical idea may come along, but I don't see that happening.

Windows 8 isn't the future, from what I've seen of it so far. And quite frankly, it's no more "innovative" than anything else out there. The problem with all of these systems is that they're mature. Point and click interfaces have been around now for decades. Refined? Sure. Tweeked? Sure. Totally made to stand on it's head? Not on the desktop. The innovative stuff is all happening on the mobile side of things..and even there they're running out of ideas.

theanimaster
Jul 25, 2012, 11:37 AM
Some things I noticed with the original poster's complaints.

ONE - he complains that all these features already existed in one form or the other. True -- but now they're all INTEGRATED nicely into the OS. It spells the difference between having to fire up an app to share something and being able to maybe just right click to share it.

TWO - the old "Blah..blah has run out of ideas." Utter BS. Apple isn't stupid -- they know how to market their stuff. It's the same reason why Apple NEVER seems to put in the same storage capacity in their iPhones as they do their iPod Touches. They have to create some differentiation -- something that will keep the people drooling for more. Or has the OP forgotten that this is, after all, mountain LION and not TABBY CAT? Just as snow LEOPARD was to LEOPARD, I'm sure Apple's next OS will take some bold steps.

THREE - features. Can't comment now as I've still got 18 minutes before my installation is complete (while I'm downloading ML to the other computer...) but I sure as hell hope that they've included the USEFUL features like integration Contacts with Mail so that you can have Mail display nicknames YOU choose rather than weird names that your contacts choose (I live in Thailand and everything is written in Thai script -- I can't read). Or how about the bugs in Launchpad were icons moved around on their own? Or how about the bug in Mail that caused Mission Control to crash? There are plenty others, but I'm expecting them to have been weeded out in ML. Keep in mind Lion is more like a paid beta... hence Apple was "nice" enough to charge us the remaining 19.99 for the complete package.

----------

That's just flippin' ridiculous. Why wouldn't powernap work on all Apple branded computers?[COLOR="#808080"]


It needs a SSD. If you're running a hard disk while its fetching your mail and writing to your spinning platter-based drive while it's bumpin' up and down in the back seat of your car, then good luck -- you'll need a new drive soon.

What I don't understand or rather, what I DO understand ... is why they limit it to new macs only. Seems there needs to be a firmware update, but I wonder if this can be hacked so that you can enable it in older based macs?

Coz if you put a SSD in one of them older macs... well... there you go.

InuNacho
Jul 25, 2012, 11:42 AM
They will not put effort into improving things along the way they probably know of won't be there in the next couple of years anyway. Finder, explorer, great things back in the 90s. Today? Get rid of the legacy already.

Lets get rid of mice too, their legacy. Oh can't forget USB and Ethernet, everyone uses Thunderbolt now. Nobody uses CDs or DVDs anymore, Apple should remove all support for anything that isn't a SSD too!

Partron22
Jul 25, 2012, 11:43 AM
Before being "that guy" and correcting someone, perhaps its best to re-read their post.True that. I've no idea where my head was at as I read it the first time.

swindmill
Jul 25, 2012, 12:19 PM
I'm buying ML because it fixes the mistakes of Lion. The fact that I have to spend $20 to fix Apple's mistakes, when I have a copy of SL that - if it wasn't artificially limited - would work just fine, is obnoxious.

And that's my word of the day for Apple: Obnoxious.

I don't think that's why Apple released ML.


It's ridiculous that certain people expect major changes in every point release, but it seems clear that ML is a big step towards merging iOS with OS X, which is a major change in itself. This is where computing is going, and Apple is leading the way. The real question for those complaining is: How would you suggest Apple release these changes? If not a $20 point release, should it all have come down as updates and new apps through Software Update and the App Store? It seems obvious that the most sensible way to release these changes and features was with an OS update, and that's what Apple did. The fact that you see this as a failure, because it's not a groundbreaking update to desktop computing, is complete nonsense. The only thing that's irrelevant in this discussion is what you wish Apple would have done by now.

thejadedmonkey
Jul 25, 2012, 12:35 PM
I don't think that's why Apple released ML

I'm sure it's not, and Apple has way too much hubris to even suggest it. But the reality is that's why I'm buying it. To fix Apple's mistakes.

polaris20
Jul 25, 2012, 12:36 PM
Taking the topic literally, "Irrelevance" is a strong word. ML must be looked at for what it is: an incremental upgrade at a cost of $20. For $20, does it provide value? IMO, yes, it does.

1. Increased security.
2. Increased performance (my Mac now boots in 13 seconds).
3. Improved iCloud integration.

These three things alone are worth it to me, and thus make ML relevant.

rmwebs
Jul 25, 2012, 12:43 PM
Mountain Lion is a polished up Lion with a few more features. I like ML and what it has to offer over Lion. With that said, I agree wholeheartedly that apple is playing it safe at this point. I think they had an opportunity to really leverage and extend OSX, but instead opted to make a few updates.

This seems to be a recurring theme now since Leopard.

Snow Leopard was a polished upgrade to Leopard.
Lion was a polished upgrade to Snow Leopard (bringing very little in the way of real new features or enhancements at all).

and from the sounds of it Mountain Lion is effectively a 'patch' for Lion that adds a few relatively small addons such as notifications. Can anyone tell me of any real, true features in ML that make it worthy of a whole new OS version?

I'm not bashing here, I'm genuinely asking as I've not hit buy yet but will be doing so when the download servers calm down a bit.

50548
Jul 25, 2012, 12:47 PM
I'm sure it's not, and Apple has way too much hubris to even suggest it. But the reality is that's why I'm buying it. To fix Apple's mistakes.

I've just read Siracusa's way-too-verbose and now-overhyped review of ML - not exciting at all, but as you said above, worth doing it for the sake of bug-fixing and AirPlay mirroring for the price of a single lunch (at least here in Switzerland)...this is all I can say.

----------

This seems to be a recurring theme now since Leopard.

Snow Leopard was a polished upgrade to Leopard.
Lion was a polished upgrade to Snow Leopard (bringing very little in the way of real new features or enhancements at all).

and from the sounds of it Mountain Lion is effectively a 'patch' for Lion that adds a few relatively small addons such as notifications. Can anyone tell me of any real, true features in ML that make it worthy of a whole new OS version?

I'm not bashing here, I'm genuinely asking as I've not hit buy yet but will be doing so when the download servers calm down a bit.

Read my first post and you'll see what is "innovative" or really "useful" in my opinion...AirPlay mirroring and a better Safari are what come to mind, especially if you don't care about excessive iOS integration or iCloud gibberish.

rmwebs
Jul 25, 2012, 12:56 PM
Read my first post and you'll see what is "innovative" or really "useful" in my opinion...AirPlay mirroring and a better Safari are what come to mind, especially if you don't care about excessive iOS integration or iCloud gibberish.

I think Airplay Mirroring is about the only "Feature" I'd use...even then it'd still be via iTunes like I've always used to play content on the Apple TV.

Just really shocked at the lack of features here. At least Lion had some pretty good under the hood speed improvements, but ML doesn't even seem to continue on those lines. Just the same ageing UI and the same broken Finder :(

50548
Jul 25, 2012, 01:08 PM
I think Airplay Mirroring is about the only "Feature" I'd use...even then it'd still be via iTunes like I've always used to play content on the Apple TV.

Just really shocked at the lack of features here. At least Lion had some pretty good under the hood speed improvements, but ML doesn't even seem to continue on those lines. Just the same ageing UI and the same broken Finder :(

Well, people DO seem to report speed gains and overall polishing tweaks, so I wouldn't really go against that. My point is similar to yours, though: close to zero innovation and no more "wow" factor.

Funnily, I used to get a lot more excited when an upgrade felt REALLY like an upgrade and cost $129...now it's all about increments instead of leaps, despite Siracusa trying his hardest to show it in the most positive light possible.

iMacFarlane
Jul 25, 2012, 01:19 PM
It needs a SSD. If you're running a hard disk while its fetching your mail and writing to your spinning platter-based drive while it's bumpin' up and down in the back seat of your car, then good luck -- you'll need a new drive soon.

What I don't understand or rather, what I DO understand ... is why they limit it to new macs only. Seems there needs to be a firmware update, but I wonder if this can be hacked so that you can enable it in older based macs?

Coz if you put a SSD in one of them older macs... well... there you go.

Fair enough. But I also heard that it has somehow been limited to Apple's own collection of SSDs, meaning if I upgrade my new 2012 MBP with an SSD later, it won't PowerNap? Or will it?

50548
Jul 25, 2012, 01:31 PM
Fair enough. But I also heard that it has somehow been limited to Apple's own collection of SSDs, meaning if I upgrade my new 2012 MBP with an SSD later, it won't PowerNap? Or will it?

No, it won't. At least this is what Apple itself says with "built-in SSDs"; I've heard the same from developers. See my previous posts above.

Hastings101
Jul 25, 2012, 01:34 PM
Ummm. What kind of rating system is that?

I'm not sure, but I'm rating this thread 0/0.57 :p.

Confusing main post but I agree Apple could be a little more innovative than they have been lately

50548
Jul 25, 2012, 01:37 PM
I'm not sure, but I'm rating this thread 0/0.5 :p.

Confusing main post but I agree Apple could be a little more innovative than they have been lately

Already explained my rating (innovativeness/usefulness); check the earlier posts.

swindmill
Jul 25, 2012, 01:50 PM
I think Airplay Mirroring is about the only "Feature" I'd use...even then it'd still be via iTunes like I've always used to play content on the Apple TV.

Just really shocked at the lack of features here. At least Lion had some pretty good under the hood speed improvements, but ML doesn't even seem to continue on those lines. Just the same ageing UI and the same broken Finder :(

If there are any valid and logical points to be made by the OP and others who share his opinion, saying that there are a lack of new features is not one. Please go here and look around before this claim is made again:

http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html

Not using available features is one thing, but ML was not released for you, specifically. I don't use Dashboard, but it's still a feature of OS X. iOS features coming to OS X is reflective of the direction computing is moving, and that alone makes this worthy of an update. From now on, people just need to say that Apple isn't introducing what they've dreamed up in their own mind, and that Apple isn't innovating as fast as they think they should be able to, because that's all this thread is really about.

wikus
Jul 25, 2012, 02:03 PM
Is that retarded 'versions' feature still forced onto users or can that crap be turned off finally?

rmwebs
Jul 25, 2012, 02:04 PM
If there are any valid and logical points to be made by the OP and others who share his opinion, saying that there are a lack of new features is not one. Please go here and look around before this claim is made again:

http://www.apple.com/osx/whats-new/features.html

Not using available features is one thing, but ML was not released for you, specifically. I don't use Dashboard, but it's still a feature of OS X. iOS features coming to OS X is reflective of the direction computing is moving, and that alone makes this worthy of an update. From now on, people just need to say that Apple isn't introducing what they've dreamed up in their own mind, and that Apple isn't innovating as fast as they think they should be able to, because that's all this thread is really about.

The real issue is that the top features of ML really are quite minor and not worthy of a whole new OS. Adding a notification app and buttons to tweet dont really make for the 'wow' factor.

To give you some kind of perspective, in pretty much all OS X releases we've seen significant performance increases (not just a minor performance bump due to the OS being tidy and fresh) and unlocking extra processing potential, as well as some large updates. On this occasion it feels like a very minor patch on Lion along with a new wallpaper. It seems that there really is no groundbreaking new feature that stands out with the 'wow' factor.

As for the likes of Dashboard, Apple killed it within a month of it being released - they stopped accepting new widget submissions and have never mentioned dashboard since. It seems to be a common occurrence (e.g Ping).

quickmac
Jul 25, 2012, 02:28 PM
On one hand I agree with OP that Apple on the surface appears to be "resting on their laurels" while other companies catch up or at least attempt to catch up. I can't speak on whether this is true or not but first thing that came to mind was that with the billions in cash they have in the bank and the utter cash cow that iPhone and iOS is, even if they get lazy they aren't depending on the income coming in right now for working on new projects. They can get lazy screw up then invest billions in cash in doing what they do best.

Should they do this? Probably not. They should always innovate.

Which leads me to the other hand of this debate. No one really knows what Apple is doing behind the scenes. Microsoft is taking a huge risk on Windows 8 and "dramatic" changes and yet early reports are that Windows 8 is "meh" when compared to Windows 7. So maybe Apple is waiting for Microsoft to flop and if they somehow don't then it's an early warning for Apple to keep stepping it up.

Also consider that the integration of iCloud into ML is even more apparent now. Multiple applications and file types seamlessly and in real time on all of your devices at once. Business wise it's smart because it locks people into the system. Technology wise it's cutting edge because Microsoft can't come close to it and Google is limited in it. That alone is huge innovation.

Also look at the hardware. The new Retina MBP is advanced in design and the technology used...no one else will come close for a while. They could have just slacked off and kept the same MBPs around with incremental upgrades and a slightly new OS, but they once again reinvented the laptop to push the limits of the design.



You can't blame a company that quickly made billions off one device and continues to profit off it for wanting to take whatever people like about it and integrating it into other products. They could milk it for years without any adverse effects while other companies shoot themselves in the foot trying to recreate something Apple already did years ago.

InuNacho
Jul 25, 2012, 04:59 PM
To give you some kind of perspective, in pretty much all OS X releases we've seen significant performance increases (not just a minor performance bump due to the OS being tidy and fresh) and unlocking extra processing potential, as well as some large updates. On this occasion it feels like a very minor patch on Lion along with a new wallpaper. It seems that there really is no groundbreaking new feature that stands out with the 'wow' factor.

Supposedly ML has some new memory management or maybe its the same as SL and it's going to be labeled as new.

underblu
Jul 25, 2012, 06:05 PM
I think SL was the last true OS Apple designed for the desktop. This convergence of mobile and desktop OS's provides the worst of both worlds imo.

the only goal of ML imo should have been to improve speed and battery life, everything else is really superfluous

scarred
Jul 26, 2012, 12:03 AM
And here is where I found that PowerNap won't be available for third-party SSDs:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4107618?start=0&tstart=0

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1383560

Not to mention Apple's own statement: "built-in SSDs".

Well, among a lot of stuff you said in this thread, you were wrong about this. I have a third-party SSD and powernap is enabled.

rikscha
Jul 26, 2012, 06:51 AM
Lets get rid of mice too, their legacy. Oh can't forget USB and Ethernet, everyone uses Thunderbolt now. Nobody uses CDs or DVDs anymore, Apple should remove all support for anything that isn't a SSD too!

Pretty stupid to be so sarcastic about it. You get it partially right in fact.

The mouse is already being replaced by the much better trackpad - USB and Ethernet are completely obsolete. Why have different connections when thunderbolt can just be any connection you want. Optical media is a thing of the past, absolutely correct - for your info, they are already getting rid of it.

Depends on how you define SSD. There shouldn't be any SSD drives - the way to go for the moment is the solution you find in current MBAs and the rMBP.

Conclusion here is, you are using it wrong.