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MacRumors
Jul 24, 2012, 03:36 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/24/apple-reports-results-for-q3-2012-8-8-billion-profit-on-35-billion-in-revenue/)


Apple today announced financial results (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/07/24Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html) for the second calendar quarter and third fiscal quarter of 2012. For the quarter, Apple posted revenue of $35.0 billion and net quarterly profit of $8.8 billion, or $9.32 per diluted share, compared to revenue of $28.57 billion and net quarterly profit of $7.31 billion, or $7.79 per diluted share, in the year-ago quarter (http://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/19/apple-reports-record-breaking-q3-2011/).

This will be considered a big "miss" for Apple, as it is dramatically weaker than what analysts were expecting (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/24/roundup-of-analyst-expectations-ahead-of-q3-2012-earnings-call/). The company did beat its own guidance, however. Last quarter, Apple said it would make $34 billion in revenue and earnings of $8.67 per share.

Gross margin was 42.8 percent, compared to 41.7 percent in the year-ago quarter, and international sales accounted for 62 percent of the quarter's revenue. Apple's quarterly profit and revenue were both company records for the June quarter. Apple also declared a new quarterly dividend of $2.65 per share payable on August 16 to shareholders as of the close of trading on August 13.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/07/2q12_revenue_history.jpg


Quarterly iPhone unit sales reached 26.0 million, up 28 percent from the year-ago quarter, and the company sold 17.0 million iPads, up 84 percent year-over-year. Apple sold 4.0 million Macintosh computers, a unit increase of 2 percent over the year-ago quarter. The company also sold 6.8 million iPods, representing a 10 percent unit decline year-over-year."We're thrilled with record sales of 17 million iPads in the June quarter," said Tim Cook, Apple's CEO. "We've also just updated the entire MacBook line, will release Mountain Lion tomorrow and will be launching iOS 6 this Fall. We are also really looking forward to the amazing new products we've got in the pipeline."Apple's guidance for the fourth quarter of fiscal 2012 includes expected revenue of $34 billion and earnings per diluted share of $7.65.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/07/2q12_revenue.jpg


Apple will provide live streaming (http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/earningsq312/) of its Q3 2012 financial results conference call at 2:00 PM Pacific, and MacRumors will update this story with coverage of the conference call highlights.

Conference Call Highlights

- Established new all-time quarterly records for iPad sales, and June quarter records for iPhone and Mac sales.
- Year over year growth of Mac of 23%.
- Strong growth in iPad and iPhone sales year over year.
- Sold 4 million Macs. This represents 2% growth year over year, higher than 1% contraction of global PC market.
- Customer response has been excellent for new MacBook Air and Pro models.
- Best quarter ever for US education institution Mac sales.
- Notable large edu sales: Rutherford County, NC -- 6k MacBook Airs. Pueblo, CO district 70 -- all high school students and K-12 staff converting to MacBook Air.
- 3-4 weeks of Mac channel inventory. Below target of 4-5 weeks.
- Mountain Lion comes out tomorrow.

- Sold 6.8 million iPods. Versus 7.5 million last year. Ahead of Apple's internal expectations.
- iPod Touch accounts for more than half of iPods sold.
- Share of mp3 market is higher than 70%. Top selling mp3 player in most countries Apple tracks.
- 4-6 weeks of iPod channel inventory, within targets.
- $1.8 billion from iTunes Store.
- Launched iTunes in 12 new countries.
- 20 million songs.
- Great interest in iTunes U. 14 million downloads of the app. 700 new K-12 schools and districts and 125 colleges enrolled in iTunes U. 750 new courses.

- 26 million iPhones. 20.3 million last year. 28% YoY growth. Ahead of amount we factored into our guidance.
- 250 carriers in over 100 countries.
- Dropped 300k iPhones in channel inventory. 4-6 weeks of inventory.
- Recognized revenue was $16.2 billion, versus $13.3 billion last year. Increase of 22%.
- More than double the iPhones in Fortune 500 from last year.

- 17 million iPads versus 9.2 million last year, up 84%.
- Very strong growth in sales around the world.
- Sold in 97 countries.
- Up 1.2 million units in channel inventory. 4-6 weeks.
- Sales setting new quarterly record for education sales. Sold 1 million iPads to education.
- Sales of iPad 2 were particularly strong to K-12 market.
- Achieved all-time record Mac sales to education, but sold twice as many iPads to US institutions.
- Number of iPads in Fortune 500 has more than tripled in past year.

- App Store in 155 countries. 650k apps, 225k for iPad.
- Surpassed $5.5 billion in payments to developers.
- 150 million iCloud users.

- iOS 6 coming this fall.

- Apple Retail: $4.1 billion in revenue, up 17% year over year. Growth coming from record iPad sales and iPhone sales. 791k Macs, half the Macs sold to customers to new Mac owners.
- 9 new stores. 372 stores total. 123 stores outside US.
- $11.1 million versus $10.8 million revenue per store.
- 80.3 million visitors total. 17,000 visitors per store per week.

- 42.8% gross margin.
- Better than expected commodity, warranty and other costs.
- Offset by strong mix by iPad sales, higher mix of lower priced iPhones, and stronger US dollar.

- $3.4 billion, $378 million in stock based compensation.
- Tax rate of 25.6%.
- Cash: $117.2 billion at end of June quarter. Up $7 billion. $81 billion in cash was offshore.
- $10.2 billion cash flow from operations.

- Board of directors announces dividend of $2.65 per common share.
- Expect to announce record and payment dates concurrently with quarterly earnings announcements going forward.
- $10 billion in stock repurchase beginning next year.

- Expect revenue of $34 billion versus $28.3 billion in 2012 in September quarter. Margin of 38.5%.
- Targeting EPS of $7.55 per share.

- Extremely confident in our strategy.
- Amazing new products in the pipeline.

Q&A

Q: Why is gross margin guidance so low? Been 2 years since been sub-40% gross margin.

A: Down 430 basis points sequentially. Most of this decline is from fall transition, strong US dollar, full quarter of back to school promotion.

Q: Seen spectacular growth in China over past several years. Macro concerns in the market and Asia-Pac growth decelerated from 100+ to 25% growth this quarter.

A: Growth in Asia Pac was 25%. Vast majority in difference in sequential growth rate was the result of greater China. 2/3 of revenue in AsiaPac comes from China. 48% increase year over year. Virtually all of the $2.2 billion sequential revenue decline was due to iPhone sales in greater China. Half of that is attributable to changes in channel inventory not underlying sell-through. Launched iPhone 4S in China last quarter, added China Telecom as second carrier in March. Increased channel inventory over the quarter to meet targets.

Mainly attributable to normal seasonality after very successful iPhone 4S launch. Didn't see large impact that we would associate with weak economy in mainland China. Up 100% year over year in iPhone sales in greater China. Launched new iPad last Friday. Sales did not benefit from new iPad in June quarter in mainland China.

New portables that we announced at WWDC began to ship in China last week. June quarter sales did not benefit from these products. We remain really confident about our plans and are very excited about opportunity in China. Looking forward to incorporating more local services to China.

Q: Thoughts on individual segments?

A: iPhone, we expect year-over-year increase in sales in September. Same for iPad and Mac. Revenue guidance is up 20% year over year. Not expecting economies in Europe, Australia, Brazil or Canada to improve. No obvious evidence of economy impacting sales in China or the US. Reading same things that you are about these economies so we'll see.

Weekly iPhone sales continue to be impacted by rumors and speculation regarding new products. In supply/demand balance. Don't expect new country or carrier additions in the quarter.

Current iPad lineup includes $399 iPad 2, will impact ASP's in September quarter. US dollar has strengthened against most currencies. This should have adverse impact to revenue in these countries in excess of $400 million.

Q: Can you walk us through some of the trends you saw for iPhone demand sequentially in other international regions?

A: Completed iPhone rollout in all countries including China. Got the channel within target inventory range of 4-6 weeks by the end of March. Last quarter, increased sell-in over sell-through by 2.6 million units. Our sell-in was less than sell-through in this quarter. Net change in channel inventory across quarters was 3 million units.

In different geographies, iPhone, US was very strong, running at 47%. Japan was strong at 45%. Greater China was up 66% but Mainland was up more than 100%. Europe did not perform well, essentially flat. Hampered our total results.

Regarding general revenue, within Europe, we see marked difference between countries. UK was solid at 30% growth. France and Greece and Italy were particularly poor. Germany was a single digit positive growth. Eastern Europe was strong compared to Western, but Western drives revenue. Seeing a slowdown in revenue in that area. US and China are not seeing an obvious economic issue.

Q: Mentioned "Fall transition" in the gross margin notes. What's that about? What would you get back in the December quarter? How much is short term?

A: "Fall transition" that I spoke about is driving most of the decline that we see sequentially in gross margin. Not something that we're going to talk about in any level of detail today. We could not be more confident in our new product pipeline.

Q: Rumor and speculation, how much does it hurt sales in the quarter?

A: There's a lot of speculation out there. It's difficult to sort out but I'm fairly convinced that there's an incredible anticipation out there for future products. As you would expect given what we've been able to deliver in the past. I think it's a reasonable amount.

In terms of channel inventory for the current quarter, we put our thinking in the guidance that Peter gave you.

Q: Talk about Mac business? Up 2% year over year -- how much was due to product transition or weak economy?

A: Clear the PC market is weak. Frankly, we believe the primary factor for our lower growth rate in the Mac area is the timing of our portable announcement in the quarter. Less than 3 weeks remaining in the quarter. The year ago compare, we made a transition in the portable area in February. Sold our new lineup for the entire Q3 period.

Prior to WWDC, our weekly Mac sales were running below the prior year. After WWDC, MacBook Pro and MacBook air drove year over year increases in weekly sell-through. They were to the level that got us back into overall positive territory and our 25th sequential quarter beating the PC market. Entered quarter in backlog on Retina MacBook Pro, anticipate doing so next month.

For month of June, our portable share was at 25.5% and record 47% of revenue share in month of June. Would attribute a large amount to what has happened in terms of timing of our portable announcement.

Q: What are your conversations with carriers in terms of pricing subsidies?

A: Generally, I would say that our role is to make the very best smartphone in the world. That has an incredible user experience, far superior to everything else. At the end of the day, the carriers want to provide their customers with what their customers want to buy. The most important thing for us is to continue making the best products in the world. We are deeply committed to doing this and maniacally focused on it.

The total subsidy that they pay is fairly small relative to the monthly payment they collect over a 24-month period. Many tell us that iPhone has several advantages to other smart phones. Churn rates are less. Shared data plans do well with iPhone customers, and are more likely to have a tablet. They value these customers quite a bit. Our engineering teams work with carriers to find the most efficiently ways to deal with data -- we feel that we are the most efficient smartphones on the market for those in an app-rich ecosystem. Will focus on making the best product and carriers will be very motivated to provide it to their customers.

Q: You were above expectations relative to guidance on iPhone. Above on iPod. Said you were thrilled with iPad, but EPS came in 5-6% above guidance. Perhaps you can help us illustrate where you were disappointed on guidance?

A: Given what's going on around us, we're happy with our quarter. Sales of each of our products did exceed what we factored into guidance. Especially true with iPad. Revenue grew by $6.5 billion year over year. Some things did impact us during the quarter. The economy in Europe is not doing well. Saw some economic impact in natural resource space economies, including Australia, Brazil and Canada. Reading same rumors and speculation that you are -- this caused a pause in some purchases. Delay in Ivy Bridge impacted sales in April and May. Saw large increase in Mac sales after WWDC. Did not get benefit of launching new iPad or new portables in China. Additional strengthening on the dollar. These impacted the quarter and we're very happy with how business is performing and excited with new product pipeline.

Q: Talk a little about smartphone growth in emerging markets? Maybe 70% of smartphones in China and emerging countries are under $300 or $200. Do you agree with that market characterization? Does that limit your ability to gain share in a marketplace where 70% of the units are in a price point that you don't play in? At what point does that math prevent you from gaining share?

A: The specific data you've quoted doesn't map to what I've seen. We've been very focused on China because we see it as an enormous opportunity for us. We're very pleased that we were able to grow our iPhone sales over 100% in mainland China last quarter. Firmly believe that people in emerging markets want great products just like in developed markets. We're going to stick to our knitting and make the best products. If we do that, we've got a very, very good business ahead of us. That's what we're doing.

Q: The share objective in and of itself is not an explicit one? That's the consequence of making good products? Or is that an explicit objective?

A: Across everything that we make, the goal is to make the very best product. That's more important and overshadows all over things. By doing that, we will have a great business. Our results today show that.

Q: Is the channel inventory commentary all on a look-forward basis?

A: The weeks that we quote are forward looking because inventory is in the channel for forward sales.

Q: The comments about the iPad being just in target at 4-6 weeks would suggest a slowdown in sales.

A: The channel inventory is only for the indirect channel. It is not used to support direct sales -- Apple Retail, Apple Online, Apple Education. I don't want to give you specific guidance on iPad sales but it's important to keep that in mind. That's the case with all products. I know that some companies refer to their channel inventory in terms of growth sales. We don't do that.

Q: There is some higher quality competition for the iPad now. What do you think about pricing?

A: iPad 2 did very well, new iPad is more popular now. iPad 2 did very well in K-12 area, sold about a million units for the quarter. We have been very aggressive in the space and that won't change. We've seen many different tablets come to market over the last year and I have yet to see any of them gain a level of traction. We have 225k apps optimized for iPad. Incredible experience on iPad. Most customers feel that they aren't looking for a tablet, they're looking for an iPad. We will keep innovating in the space and we will keep a very strong business going forward.

It took us more than twice as long to sell this many iPads as iPods, and a third less time on iPad than iPhone. We feel very good about it.

Q: Can you talk a little more about segments that have been driving iPad?

A: Triple digit growth rates in many geographies. Generally speaking, international markets in aggregate are extremely strong -- in triple digits. US is a big lower, but important to keep in mind that the US is on a faster adoption curve with iPad. We're thrilled with numbers everywhere. Latin America is tripling. Growth out of countries that border on being shocking in terms of growth rate. We would not have dreamed of shipping 17 million last quarter so we feel very good about it.

Q: Did you give an Apple TV number and updated thoughts?

A: Sold 1.3 million last quarter, up more than 170% year over year. Brings fiscal year to 4 million units. This is pretty incredible. Still at a level that we would call a "hobby" -- continue to pull the string to see where it takes us. Not one to keep around projects that we don't believe in. Lot of people here that believe in Apple TV. Continue to invest.

Q: Don't do hobbies to be hobbies -- do it to make something bigger?

A: We do it because we think it'll lead us somewhere. We'll see. 4 million isn't a small number and there are a lot of believers in it.

Q: iPad and iPhone ASP's seem to have declined more this quarter than previous quarters. What is this due to?

A: Don't talk too much about ASP but, iPhone: down due to higher mix of lower price models and stronger US dollar. Sequentially and year over year. Regarding mix, believe this was driven by new product rumors, economic conditions especially in Europe, and a change in inventory by model. For iPad, it was down more year over year than sequentially. YoY decrease is attributable to higher mix of lower priced models, reduced price of iPad 2 to $399, expanded distribution with higher mix of indirect sales versus last year, and US dollar.

Q: Talked about hobbies... look at Passbook -- is it possible that Apple will have a bigger role in a digital wallet?

A: Passbook in general is a key feature -- all of us have found that we were getting many passes and tickets that were scattered all over the iPhone in different apps. Passbook does an incredible job of pulling all of those to one place. It's an important feature of iOS 6 and I wouldn't want to speculate about where it might take us.

Q: Want to followup on pricing. Do you think the lower price point on iPad drove elasticity of demand for that product? Were sales higher or did customers migrate downmarket to lower priced products?

A: We believed that the sales would be incrementally larger and that there was price elasticity and that there was a buyer that really wanted the best product that needed it to be a little less expensive. We saw that, it did help our sales, it particularly helps K-12. The adoption rate of iPad in education is something that I've never seen from any technology product in history. Usually education tends to be a conservative institution in terms of buying. We're not seeing that at all on iPad. It's been a big help for us and I'm glad we did it.

Q: Ask about opportunity you see in India? What hasn't Apple been more successful in India? What's the strategy there?

A: I love India. But, I believe that Apple has some higher potential in the intermediate term in some other countries. That doesn't mean we aren't putting emphasis in India -- we are. Our business there is growing. The multi-layer distribution there really adds to the cost of getting products to market. We're gonna continue putting some energies there but from my perspective, in the intermediate term there are larger opportunities outside of there.

Q: Component availability, particularly new components?

A: We factor supply into the guidance. Generally, we have been short of MacBook Pro with Retina Display. Ended quarter with backlog. Working really hard to deliver those to customers quickly. Will be in supply/demand balance. Won't talk about new products nor the parts in them -- a limit to what I can say there other than anything we know about we've included in the guidance. If we were short of something we'd be spending our energies on mitigating that.

Q: In terms of the new iPad with Retina display, any constraints there?

A: New iPad ended the quarter just over the 4-week line. That said, as a reminder, we did not ship the new iPad in China until the current quarter. We feel we ended Q3 in a balanced situation.

Q: Building great products rather than aiming for a particular price point. Thoughts about that?

A: Our "North Star" is to maniacally focus on making the world's best products. Economic turmoil may push us side-to-side but we will stay on that journey and focus on making the best products. We've seen it again and again throughout the years that during these types of periods is where we distance ourselves further from those that don't innovate. It increases the gap between us. That's what we focus on. When we can do that and hit more aggressive price points, I think you can see that with the $399 iPad a few months ago and the iPhone 3GS is free in the US and several other countries. There has been a lot knocked off that price. We will continue making the best products in the world. We aren't changing that.

Q: When you think about how the iPhone has penetrated the planet, there's been a lot of rumors and speculation about future products. How do you manage iPhone transitions and carrier ramp? You're not launching any major carriers or countries but how do you manage that?

A: Try very hard to keep our product roadmap secret and confidential. We go to extremes to do that. That, however, doesn't stop people from speculating or wondering and they'll never do that. The great thing about this country is that people can say what they think and so-forth. I'm not going to spend any energy trying to change that. I'm glad that people want the next thing. I'm super happy about it. There are obviously quite a few that want what we're doing now as well. I'm not going to put any energy into trying to get people to stop speculating. I don't think it would amount to anything.

Article Link: Apple Reports Results for Q3 2012: $8.8 Billion Profit on $35 Billion in Revenue (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/24/apple-reports-results-for-q3-2012-8-8-billion-profit-on-35-billion-in-revenue/)



djrod
Jul 24, 2012, 03:37 PM
“We’re thrilled with record sales of 17 million iPads in the June quarter,” said Tim Cook, Apple’s CEO. “We’ve also just updated the entire MacBook line, will release Mountain Lion tomorrow and will be launching iOS 6 this Fall. We are also really looking forward to the amazing new products we’ve got in the pipeline.”

lmddawson
Jul 24, 2012, 03:37 PM
Lots more profit where that came from :D

KPOM
Jul 24, 2012, 03:38 PM
Ouch. Quite a miss. 26 million iPhones was unexpected given the relatively strong sales of AT&T and Verizon. Based on their Q4 guidance, I don't think they will be releasing a new iPhone until October.

On the positive side, 17 million iPads was a "beat." Buying opportunity? The stock is off $33.

lifeinhd
Jul 24, 2012, 03:38 PM
“We’re thrilled with record sales of 17 million iPads in the June quarter,” said Tim Cook, Apple’s CEO. “We’ve also just updated the entire MacBook line, will release Mountain Lion tomorrow and will be launching iOS 6 this Fall. We are also really looking forward to the amazing new products we’ve got in the pipeline.”

Beat me to it :)

djrod
Jul 24, 2012, 03:39 PM
new Mac Pro!!!

JK Don't kill me :p

ayala421
Jul 24, 2012, 03:39 PM
SWEET...Now release Mountain Lion!!

WindWaker
Jul 24, 2012, 03:39 PM
When the next-gen iPhone comes along, boy oh boy will those numbers skyrocket come Q4

appleguy123
Jul 24, 2012, 03:39 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

dashiel
Jul 24, 2012, 03:40 PM
On the positive side, 17 million iPads was a "beat." Buying opportunity? The stock is off $33.

It certainly is for me. I’m not smart enough to day trade, but I certainly know a shallow, panic sell-off when I see one.

themcfly
Jul 24, 2012, 03:40 PM
LOL, the "ace (*cough cough*) ANAL-yst" Kathryn Huberty was right.

iMikeT
Jul 24, 2012, 03:40 PM
Despite record numbers, AAPL is getting punished by the street.

D A
Jul 24, 2012, 03:41 PM
I still can't believe a $8.8 profit is a disappointment. I'm sure a lot of companies would love even get close to that.

marcusj0015
Jul 24, 2012, 03:41 PM
“We’re thrilled with record sales of 17 million iPads in the June quarter,” said Tim Cook, Apple’s CEO. “We’ve also just updated the entire MacBook line, will release Mountain Lion tomorrow and will be launching iOS 6 this Fall. We are also really looking forward to the amazing new products we’ve got in the pipeline.”

I saw that too lol

sebi247
Jul 24, 2012, 03:41 PM
"We are also really looking forward to the amazing new products we’ve got in the pipeline." e.g. the iMac update in 2013, 2014 oder maybe 2015 :mad:

iansilv
Jul 24, 2012, 03:42 PM
How many iPhones were sold in the United States?

iMikeT
Jul 24, 2012, 03:42 PM
It certainly is for me. I’m not smart enough to day trade, but I certainly know a shallow, panic sell-off when I see one.


Panic sell-off despite the great numbers. Lots of logic used in the market right?

Badandy
Jul 24, 2012, 03:42 PM
It certainly is for me. I’m not smart enough to day trade, but I certainly know a shallow, panic sell-off when I see one.

It's not a "panic sell-off". People expected certain results, Apple missed those expectations.

lifeinhd
Jul 24, 2012, 03:43 PM
I still can't believe a $8.8 profit is a disappointment. I'm sure a lot of companies would love even get close to that.

$8.8? That's less than I make in an hour!

Oh, $8.8 billion. Right then.

Capex
Jul 24, 2012, 03:43 PM
So mountain lion tomorrow?

smiddlehurst
Jul 24, 2012, 03:43 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

Umm, no they didn't, at least not according to the article directly below this one:

For the second fiscal quarter, Apple has issued guidance of $34 billion in revenue with profits of $8.68 per share.

Actual results: $35 Billion and profit of $8.8 billion. Pretty much bang on, slightly exceeding guidance.

iScott428
Jul 24, 2012, 03:44 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

Apple beat its own guidance and set sales records for the quarter. Profit margin is crazy at 42%

waldobushman
Jul 24, 2012, 03:44 PM
Apple was right on the mark in their guidance for this quarter.

I guess they're better at running the Apple business than analysts are at running their business.

Now, tell me again. What do analysts do, and why should we care?

lilo777
Jul 24, 2012, 03:44 PM
I still can't believe a $8.8 profit is a disappointment. I'm sure a lot of companies would love even get close to that.

You should somehow relate this number to company's market capitalization. You may be satisfied with these profit numbers but the right stock price for them is nowhere near $1000. It's probably closer to $500 if not lower.

WildCowboy
Jul 24, 2012, 03:46 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

They guided $8.68 per share on $34 billion and delivered $9.32 on $35 billion. Certainly not what people were hoping for, but they didn't miss their guidance.

Reason077
Jul 24, 2012, 03:47 PM
Good thing they'll soon be able to add that $2.5B settlement from Samsung to the bottom line.

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 03:47 PM
Apple beat its own guidance and set sales records for the quarter. Profit margin is crazy at 42%

One would think with that HUGE profit margin they could make a new Mac Pro.

:(

sazivad
Jul 24, 2012, 03:47 PM
...a shallow, panic sell-off...
AAPL After Hours Trading (http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/aapl/after-hours)

opq
Jul 24, 2012, 03:47 PM
They guided $8.68 per share on $34 billion and delivered $9.32 on $35 billion. Certainly not what people were hoping for, but they didn't miss their guidance.

People should have helped by buying more iphones ;)

lilo777
Jul 24, 2012, 03:49 PM
Apple was right on the mark in their guidance for this quarter.

I guess they're better at running the Apple business than analysts are at running their business.

Now, tell me again. What do analysts do, and why should we care?

Spinning a little, aren't you?

Now, let's see. Analysts predicted Apple profits much more accurately than Apple did in all but two quarters in the last 10 years. Apple consistently underestimated them. Would you say that Apple guys are absolutely lousy at running their business?

----------

Good thing they'll soon be able to add that $2.5B settlement from Samsung to the bottom line.

I'd say this profit miss explains why Apple wants so much money from Samsung. It's very unlikely they are going to get any though.

BuffyzDead
Jul 24, 2012, 03:50 PM
Tomorrow Apple's serves are gonna get slammed harder than your mom last night.

Your Mom Maybe, My Mother is a Virgin !!! :p

olowott
Jul 24, 2012, 03:50 PM
So much money :D but the main information given was the release of mountain lion, thats all i wanted to hear!

Besides iPod were still sold:eek:, didn't expect that much

appleguy123
Jul 24, 2012, 03:51 PM
Umm, no they didn't, at least not according to the article directly below this one:



Actual results: $35 Billion and profit of $8.8 billion. Pretty much bang on, slightly exceeding guidance.

They guided $8.68 per share on $34 billion and delivered $9.32 on $35 billion. Certainly not what people were hoping for, but they didn't miss their guidance.


Edit: I'm a cnbc watcher, and they said that Apple missed their guidance, and so did the analysts. I don't think that I misunderstood them, but all the Internet news stories say that Apple slightly beat their guidance. Sorry for jumping the gun.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 03:51 PM
Ouch. Quite a miss. 26 million iPhones was unexpected given the relatively strong sales of AT&T and Verizon. Based on their Q4 guidance, I don't think they will be releasing a new iPhone until October.

On the positive side, 17 million iPads was a "beat." Buying opportunity? The stock is off $33.

Absolutely terrible miss; no further comments necessary.

marcusj0015
Jul 24, 2012, 03:52 PM
"We are also really looking forward to the amazing new products we’ve got in the pipeline." e.g. the iMac update in 2013, 2014 oder maybe 2015 :mad:

So wait, Tim Cook said they had a bunch of awesome **** in store for 2012, is this really all we're getting?

----------

Spinning a little, aren't you?

Now, let's see. Analysts predicted Apple profits much more accurately than Apple did in all but two quarters in the last 10 years. Apple consistently underestimated them. Would you say that Apple guys are absolutely lousy at running their business?[COLOR="#808080"]


Apple knows how much product they move, they undervalue it as a marketing gimmick, none of this "analysts are right!!!" Bull ****.

jaduffy108
Jul 24, 2012, 03:53 PM
I think its a great buying opportunity.

Apple...two words for you...China Mobile!


Ouch. Quite a miss. 26 million iPhones was unexpected given the relatively strong sales of AT&T and Verizon. Based on their Q4 guidance, I don't think they will be releasing a new iPhone until October.

On the positive side, 17 million iPads was a "beat." Buying opportunity? The stock is off $33.

Klae17
Jul 24, 2012, 03:53 PM
The awkward moment when the "Other" category is higher than iPod sales....

smiddlehurst
Jul 24, 2012, 03:53 PM
Spinning a little, aren't you?

Now, let's see. Analysts predicted Apple profits much more accurately than Apple did in all but two quarters in the last 10 years. Apple consistently underestimated them. Would you say that Apple guys are absolutely lousy at running their business?

----------



I'd say this profit miss explains why Apple wants so much money from Samsung. It's very unlikely they are going to get any though.

Again, THEY DIDN'T MISS! Good lord, if you're going to try and criticize at least get it right, they missed analyst expectations but the actual guidance target they slightly exceeded. As for Apple guidance versus analyst predictions there's a key difference between those two figures:

Apple issue guidance at the start of the quarter with very little actual sales data.

Analysts issue their guesses, oops sorry, predictions at the end of the quarter with considerable sales data.

Hmm, can't imagine why Analyst numbers tend to be close to the actual results, nope, not even a little.

entatlrg
Jul 24, 2012, 03:54 PM
AAPL After Hours Trading (http://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/aapl/after-hours)

That's amazing.

boronathan
Jul 24, 2012, 03:55 PM
Awesome job as always apple!

damir00
Jul 24, 2012, 03:55 PM
Again, THEY DIDN'T MISS!

Yes, they did.

Apple has a long history of low-balling on guidance - if they only make their guidance, that's considered a miss.

lifeinhd
Jul 24, 2012, 03:55 PM
Your Mom Maybe, My Mother is a Virgin !!! :p

Jesus Christ! :eek:








:D

ziggyonice
Jul 24, 2012, 03:56 PM
I blame the lower-than-expected sales numbers due to the lack of product updates last quarter.

For, what was it, almost five months? No new products. No new announcements.

Of course they had a down quarter. Everyone was waiting for Apple to release the "next big thing" and they took too long to do it. That being said, I don't think it's anything to worry about.

With the newly updated MacBooks, plus the new iPhone, rumors of a new iPad and more Retina Macs on the way? They'll blow next quarter out of the water.

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 03:56 PM
Being "bang on" is a disappointment considering how very conservative Apple's guidance usually is. And the shares are valued generally on market expectations and Apple woefully underperformed so the shares fall back to the current reality.

woefully underperformed ?

Get serious..

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 03:57 PM
That's amazing.

And if the stupidly myopic iPad Mini is REALLY launched by Cook (due to his pandering to the benighted crowds), the disaster is gonna be even bigger...short it while you can.

lilo777
Jul 24, 2012, 03:58 PM
Again, THEY DIDN'T MISS! Good lord, if you're going to try and criticize at least get it right, they missed analyst expectations but the actual guidance target they slightly exceeded. As for Apple guidance versus analyst predictions there's a key difference between those two figures:

Apple issue guidance at the start of the quarter with very little actual sales data.

Analysts issue their guesses, oops sorry, predictions at the end of the quarter with considerable sales data.

Hmm, can't imagine why Analyst numbers tend to be close to the actual results, nope, not even a little.


Learn a little about the Wall Street. Nobody cares about Apple's own expectations. Apple is well known to under-predict their sales (one average by 13%). Market sets company's stock price according to analyst expectations and when actual results miss those analyst expectations the stock will pay the price (i.e. fall)

Reason077
Jul 24, 2012, 03:58 PM
The awkward moment when the "Other" category is higher than iPod sales....

So what's in "other"?

Apple TV
Software
iCloud
... Accessories?

Karma*Police
Jul 24, 2012, 04:01 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

They guided $8.68/$34B and came in at $9.32/$35B so they handily beat their own guidance. It was the predictions of the so-called pundits and analysts that they missed.

This isn't going to matter in a few months as the stock roars back with the lead up to the iPhone launch. The big news for me is that ML will be released tomorrow!

jephrey
Jul 24, 2012, 04:02 PM
Nobody's talking about the dividends!!! This will be the first dividend in a long time. I'm no money guy or market person so I don't know the ramifications for offering a dividend but I'm liking it since I'm long with AAPL.

Opinions?

KPOM
Jul 24, 2012, 04:03 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

They did NOT miss their public guidance. They were right on target. Of course, everyone expects them to "sandbag" their guidance, so when they are spot on, like they were this quarter, it's a "miss."

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 04:03 PM
Nobody's talking about the dividends!!! This will be the first dividend in a long time. I'm no money guy or market person so I don't know the ramifications for offering a dividend but I'm liking it since I'm long with AAPL.

Opinions?

The moment Cook decided for a dividend was the moment Apple stopped being a growth stock. Terrible decision following SJ's passing.

longofest
Jul 24, 2012, 04:04 PM
Apple was right on the mark in their guidance for this quarter.

I guess they're better at running the Apple business than analysts are at running their business.

Now, tell me again. What do analysts do, and why should we care?

Apple has historically, time and time again, grossly underestimated their projected numbers.

Sorry, but this is absolutely a huge miss on Apple's part.

bandalay
Jul 24, 2012, 04:04 PM
LOL, the "ace (*cough cough*) ANAL-yst" Kathryn Huberty was right.

And a stopped clock is correct twice a day...Huberty has missed every other quarter as long as she has followed the stock.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:05 PM
My interpretation of this. iPod is slowly dying, Macs are stagnant and will continue to be so as ultrabooks take off. iPhone has finally met its match with the Samsung Galaxy line and Windows Phone 8 will take even bigger bite to come. The only thing that Apple is truly dominant is tablets where they have no real competition as of yet. That will change with Windows 8.

Chlloret
Jul 24, 2012, 04:06 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

Oh? 34B forecast, 35B announced. 8,86 per share forecast, 9,32 announced. Where did they miss there predicted earnings?

Glassed Silver
Jul 24, 2012, 04:06 PM
Dang, why does the quality suck so bad?
Sounds like a landline phone call...

Glassed Silver:mac

LagunaSol
Jul 24, 2012, 04:07 PM
Perhaps it's time for Apple to ditch its predictable yearly iPhone refresh. Year after year you'll have that crazy quarter where consumers hit the brakes and wait.

Earendil
Jul 24, 2012, 04:07 PM
Of course they had a down quarter. Everyone was waiting for Apple to release the "next big thing" and they took too long to do it.


I'm curious by what criteria you say that they "took too long" ? New iPads and iPhones were never expected this last quarter, and if they deliver in Nov/Oct they won't be late based on history.

The new MacBook was a nice surprise, but hardly "too late". And what is this "next big thing" you speak of that hasn't happened yet but should have? I don't recall any rumors of new Apple product lines, only additional models on current product lines.

Technarchy
Jul 24, 2012, 04:09 PM
iPhone Sales: 26 Million
iPad Sales: 17 million
Mac Sales: 4 Million
iPod Sales: 6.8 Million

Hefty sales...

satty
Jul 24, 2012, 04:10 PM
Looking at the graph, I would be worried as a shareholder:
- iPhone revenue went down significantly for two quarters in a row, something not happening before.
- Where is the revenue increase coming from for the next two quarters to top YoY? This looks like a lot to me.

LagunaSol
Jul 24, 2012, 04:10 PM
Macs are stagnant and will continue to be so as ultrabooks take off.

You do realize the MacBook Air is what started the ultrabook craze, right?

The only thing that Apple is truly dominant is tablets where they have no real competition as of yet. That will change with Windows 8.

We also heard this about Zune and Honeycomb and Windows 7 tablets (HP Slate anyone?). Seems there's always someone who's going to eat Apple's lunch tomorrow. But always tomorrow.

basjhj
Jul 24, 2012, 04:10 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

Uh, because it is not true??? To quote Philip Elmer-Dewitt: "Although its earnings came in ahead of its (typically) low guidance and CEO Tim Cook declared himself "thrilled with record sales of 17 million iPads in the June quarter," the stock immediately dropped $30 in after-hours trading."

Emphasis mine.

G51989
Jul 24, 2012, 04:11 PM
One would think with that HUGE profit margin they could make a new Mac Pro.

:(

Nah, they're no longer a company that caters to " Pros " anymore. They can make way more money with the Pads and phones.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 04:11 PM
I see the trolls have shown up. Never in doubt.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 04:11 PM
Perhaps it's time for Apple to ditch its predictable yearly iPhone refresh. Year after year you'll have that crazy quarter where consumers hit the brakes and wait.

And let the competiition eat up its market? I don't think that's a reasonable proposition - the only way forward for Apple is through innovation.

But with SJ gone, I am not very optimistic in what pertains to the long-term pipeline. So my prediction is that we'll see a slow trend back to the 90s - multiple product lines, lack of vision, lack of focus.

The stupid iPad Mini is just the beginning of that sad future.

irnchriz
Jul 24, 2012, 04:13 PM
Uh, because it is not true??? To quote Philip Elmer-Dewitt: "Although its earnings came in ahead of its (typically) low guidance and CEO Tim Cook declared himself "thrilled with record sales of 17 million iPads in the June quarter," the stock immediately dropped $30 in after-hours trading."

Emphasis mine.

Look at every earnings call. The price bounds up in the days prior to the quarterly results and then boom, it takes a hit.

You get non stop product rumours prior to the results too, anything to build the price then these guys cash in, drop the price and buy back. Easy money really.

lilo777
Jul 24, 2012, 04:13 PM
Perhaps it's time for Apple to ditch its predictable yearly iPhone refresh. Year after year you'll have that crazy quarter where consumers hit the brakes and wait.

Would not it be not one but two quarters then? There is still one more quarter left before iPhone 5 release.

JHankwitz
Jul 24, 2012, 04:13 PM
This will be considered a big "miss" for Apple, as it is dramatically weaker than what analysts were expecting.

Is this reporter an idiot, or what? This isn't a big miss for Apple, it's a big miss for the idiot analysts. Apple once again did a great job this quarter, producing significant growth. I can't understand how having a net of $8.8B can possibly be considered a big miss. Let's start reporting facts instead of sensationalism.

chrisbru
Jul 24, 2012, 04:13 PM
I'm curious by what criteria you say that they "took too long" ? New iPads and iPhones were never expected this last quarter, and if they deliver in Nov/Oct they won't be late based on history.

The new MacBook was a nice surprise, but hardly "too late". And what is this "next big thing" you speak of that hasn't happened yet but should have? I don't recall any rumors of new Apple product lines, only additional models on current product lines.

You must not have heard the rumor about the Apple Television set and such.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:14 PM
The point is that I believe Apple has crested and will face severe headwinds notwithstanding corrupt judges who try to run interference for Apple.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 04:14 PM
My interpretation of this. iPod is slowly dying, Macs are stagnant and will continue to be so as ultrabooks take off. iPhone has finally met its match with the Samsung Galaxy line and Windows Phone 8 will take even bigger bite to come. The only thing that Apple is truly dominant is tablets where they have no real competition as of yet. That will change with Windows 8.
Yeah because Ultrabook sales are really taking off. :rolleyes: all this tells me is Apple isn't immune to wider economic pressures.

max pl
Jul 24, 2012, 04:14 PM
Panic sell-off despite the great numbers. Lots of logic used in the market right?

you obviously dont know what youre talking about...

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:16 PM
Yeah because Ultrabook sales are really taking off. :rolleyes: all this tells me is Apple isn't immune to wider economic pressures.

Microsoft just had a record EBITA, so did Samsung.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 04:17 PM
You must not have heard the rumor about the Apple Television set and such.

Who was predicting an Apple television in this quarter, or even in 2012 for that matter. The biggest pusher of this iTV rumor is Gene Munster and he's not predicting anything before 2013.

Cobra611
Jul 24, 2012, 04:17 PM
:-)

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 04:18 PM
Microsoft just had a record EBITA, so did Samsung.

Because of Ultrabook sales? Doubtful.

cvaldes
Jul 24, 2012, 04:18 PM
Oh? 34B forecast, 35B announced. 8,86 per share forecast, 9,32 announced. Where did they miss there predicted earnings?
Because the street's expectations are higher. Apple typically outperforms its own conservative guidance, somewhere between 20-30% higher on revenue and maybe 25-35% higher on earnings.

For Apple to come so close to their own guidance is a miss, because it has happened only like two quarters in the past ten years.

When Kathryn Huberty is the analyst whose prediction is the closest to Apple's actual results, you know they missed it.

JHankwitz
Jul 24, 2012, 04:19 PM
CEO Tim Cook declared himself "thrilled with record sales of 17 million iPads in the June quarter," the stock immediately dropped $30 in after-hours trading."

The quick drop in stock price has nothing to do with quarterly results, and everything to do with day-traders trying to play the market to make a few unearned bucks.

Earendil
Jul 24, 2012, 04:20 PM
Looking at the graph, I would be worried as a shareholder:
- iPhone revenue went down significantly for two quarters in a row, something not happening before.
- Where is the revenue increase coming from for the next quarter to top YoY? This looks like a lot to me.

Is that a trick question? There is a new iPhone coming that everyone knows about. One would expect iPhone sales in the last quarter to drop, and the iPhone sales in the next quarter to spike. Count me in as a person that is ready to help spike the iPhone sales.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:20 PM
Of course Tim Cook highlighted the one product that is doing very well.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 04:20 PM
Because the street's expectations are higher. Apple typically outperforms its own conservative guidance, somewhere between 20-30% higher on revenue and maybe 25-35% higher on earnings.

For Apple to come so close to their own guidance is a miss, because it has happened only like two quarters in the past ten years.

When Kathryn Huberty is the analyst whose prediction is the closest to Apple's actual results, you know they missed it.

Exactly. Something smells bad at Apple, and ML and a moronic iPad Mini will not help much.

URFloorMatt
Jul 24, 2012, 04:20 PM
The awkward moment when the "Other" category is higher than iPod sales....One more reason to dump the brand and fold the surviving products (the touch and nano) into the iPad line. Leaving the iPod brand alive is just a quarterly reminder that as quickly as a product flies off the shelves, it can eventually fall into irrelevance.

I assume Other is primarily on the strength of the Apple TV? If so, then Apple's "hobby" is outselling an entire line of products featured in the main navigation on their website, and which was once the cornerstone of Apple's resurgence. It's time to retire the iPod brand and focus on getting that iTV out the door.

corduroygt
Jul 24, 2012, 04:20 PM
Microsoft just had a record EBITA, so did Samsung.
Why don't you GTFO and post in MSFT forums?

The only challenger to the iPhone is Android and Apple is feeling it this quarter, the biggest issue is screen size which is coming with iPhone 5, and LOL no one cares about Windows Phone. Similarly, no one is buying ultrabooks instead of competitively priced Macbooks, Apple has over 90% of the >$1000 PC market. Windows tablets are not going anywhere when they are priced equal to the iPad either.

swingerofbirch
Jul 24, 2012, 04:20 PM
Even lower earnings will be the only thing to save Apple from itself and force it to become the company it was in the late 90s and early 2000s. And I don't mean saving it from any type of financial ruin; I mean Apple rediscovering its taste, and when I say taste I don't mean it in a small way—I mean it in a big way.

iMikeT
Jul 24, 2012, 04:21 PM
you obviously dont know what youre talking about...


Enlighten me.

Dunbar
Jul 24, 2012, 04:22 PM
Learn a little about the Wall Street. Nobody cares about Apple's own expectations. Apple is well known to under-predict their sales (one average by 13%). Market sets company's stock price according to analyst expectations and when actual results miss those analyst expectations the stock will pay the price (i.e. fall)

I wanted to post something similar but you pretty much nailed what I wanted to say. All Wall Street cares about is how the earnings affect the stock price. When you buy a stock what you're really buying is the FUTURE profits of the company (since the current/past profits are already known.) Clearly the market had the higher expected earnings baked into the price before the close today.

But don't confuse the stock price with Apple's health though. Apple still grew it's revenues and profits year-over-year and their 35% gross profit margin is virtually unheard of.

btcutter
Jul 24, 2012, 04:22 PM
Apple didn't miss. But it did not BLOW away it's own estimates as usual.

Let's point out the very obvious White Elephant that many do not want to see.

There's MUCH BETTER competition for iPhone, iPad and Macs. People have options.

iPhone: We are seeing HTC, Samsung delivering products that people want. Like it or not I see people holding other smartphones besides iPhone 4S with regularity. Telecoms are pushing their customers to Android and Windows phones so they don't have to pay heavy subsidies to Apple.

Ipad: Amazon kindle, Fire, Nexus 7....it's coming....unless iPad mini can hold them off...

MacBooks: Everyone is now building Ultrabooks...They are catching on...Not quit MacBook quality or OS but competition is there.

This maybe the first sign of a chink in Apple's armor. Better step up or be caught up....

lilo777
Jul 24, 2012, 04:22 PM
Is that a trick question? There is a new iPhone coming that everyone knows about. One would expect iPhone sales in the last quarter to drop, and the iPhone sales in the next quarter to spike. Count me in as a person that is ready to help spike the iPhone sales.

You forgot that there is another quarter left before iPhone 5 release. What do you think iPhone sales will look like next quarter?

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:23 PM
Apple's desperate legal trolling of Samsung all over the world tells me that the iPad fad might be just about up, and I say that as an owner of 2 iPads. Only because there isn't anything better at the moment, until Window 8 tablets come out.

basesloaded190
Jul 24, 2012, 04:23 PM
Enlighten me.

Good numbers compared to the conservative estimates always given by Apple, but not good numbers to the realistic estimates Analyst were thinking. Thus, a sell off.

danielwsmithee
Jul 24, 2012, 04:24 PM
So what's in "other"?

Apple TV
Software
iCloud
... Accessories?It probably also includes interest on their investments from cash on hand.

chrisbru
Jul 24, 2012, 04:24 PM
Who was predicting an Apple television in this quarter, or even in 2012 for that matter. The biggest pusher of this iTV rumor is Gene Munster and he's not predicting anything before 2013.

I was just responding to the "next big thing" comment - There ARE rumors about a next big thing coming, just not quite yet.

CheesePuff
Jul 24, 2012, 04:25 PM
Apple's desperate legal trolling of Samsung all over the world tells me that the iPad fad might be just about up, and I say that as an owner of 2 iPads. Only because there isn't anything better at the moment, until Window 8 tablets come out.

What? They sold more then predicted and was the reason for 26% of their profits... 26% for one product.

lilo777
Jul 24, 2012, 04:26 PM
we should not really care about Apple profits. The good news is that average selling prices of iPhone, iPads and Macs fell during this quarter.

Badandy
Jul 24, 2012, 04:27 PM
The quick drop in stock price has nothing to do with quarterly results, and everything to do with day-traders trying to play the market to make a few unearned bucks.

What are you talking about? So any time Apple goes down it's the "evil speculators" and every time it goes up it's due to Apple's merits? And besides, if the day traders are playing the market, and that strategy is so apparent to you, take the opposite side of their trades. Easy money, right?

Or maybe you could consider that stocks should trade lower when expected results don't come to pass and should trade higher when beating expectations.

irnchriz
Jul 24, 2012, 04:27 PM
Even lower earnings will be the only thing to save Apple from itself and force it to become the company it was in the late 90s and early 2000s. And I don't mean saving it from any type of financial ruin; I mean Apple rediscovering its taste, and when I say taste I don't mean it in a small way—I mean it in a big way.

Apple are more consumer focused, maybe you should try Linux ?

petsounds
Jul 24, 2012, 04:27 PM
Perhaps Apple should've actually given pro/institutional users a Mac Pro they'd be willing to upgrade to. Yes, that segment is small compared to iDevices, but sales are sales, and most of us are still holding off on purchases.

daneoni
Jul 24, 2012, 04:27 PM
Blah blah blah we made a ****-load of money and we're still awesome.

Thank you and Goodnight.

wovel
Jul 24, 2012, 04:28 PM
Apple's desperate legal trolling of Samsung all over the world tells me that the iPad fad might be just about up, and I say that as an owner of 2 iPads. Only because there isn't anything better at the moment, until Window 8 tablets come out.

Plenty of things to think about from this call. I doubt 85% y/y growth of the iPad is something to worry about.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:28 PM
Apple are more consumer focused, maybe you should try Linux ?

Apple killing the XServe is proof enough that they gave up on the enterprise market. Of course iPads are the leading BYOD tablet into the enterprise until Windows 8 hits.

jackhdev
Jul 24, 2012, 04:30 PM
As was said, I think a lot of it has to do with rumors about the next iPhone. I've noticed that the "normal" person is becoming more and more informed. When I sold my original iPad on eBay before the second generation was announced, it was incredibly easy. Last year, I had to sell my second generation for $100 less because people knew the third generation was coming (and messaged me saying so), even though it had not been announced yet.

TallManNY
Jul 24, 2012, 04:31 PM
The moment Cook decided for a dividend was the moment Apple stopped being a growth stock. Terrible decision following SJ's passing.

What do you expect them to do with the wild piles of profit they pull in each quarter? Maybe they did stop being a growth stock, but they need to grow up and start paying divideds if they want to be the type of company that is actually going to be around in 50 years.

I'm glad Apple is paying a dividend and not doing something crazy like trying to buy Yahoo or Facebook. They can pay the dividend and still devote billions every month to R&D. The two are not mutually exclusive at the cash flow levels Apple is at.

And this is probably their weakest quarter if rumors of product launches in September turn out to be true.

URFloorMatt
Jul 24, 2012, 04:31 PM
Plenty of things to think about from this call. I doubt 85% y/y growth of the iPad is something to worry about.

Just looking at the graph of revenue, it appears everything held steady but a slight dip in Mac sales (due to, as others have noted, no new products for the entire first half of 2012) and a shocking dip in iPhone sales from Q2 to Q3. Compare iPhone sales for prior years and you don't see that kind of dip.

It's troubling, and perhaps a reflection that Apple's release cycle for the iPhone now typically has them playing catch up to the competition.

As others have pointed out, even if the iPhone 5 brings a 4 inch screen, LTE, and NFC, those are all features that have been in the leading Android phones for the past year. The wow factor that the iPhone once had has been tarnished somewhat by a surprisingly lack of innovation on Apple's part in recent years.

The iPad mini may well be a reflection of Apple's realization that going it alone with one flagship product on a yearly update cycle isn't going to cut it.

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 04:32 PM
Apple is predicting margins to go from 41% down to 35% due to a fall transition. Thats a lot of money. My guess is Retina Displays on all portables and the fabled Apple TV will bring that margin down.

Get ready for a new TV Sept.-Oct.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:32 PM
People are making a huge assumption that the iPhone 5 + iPad Mini are going to drive Apple into $13 billion EBITA # again and destroy the competition. Those heady days are over. Between everything that is happening with Samsung & Microsoft, competition is here.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 04:34 PM
Europe is where they had a bad quarter according to Cook. Not all countries, they were up in the UK but down in France, Greece and Italy and flat in Germany.

JHankwitz
Jul 24, 2012, 04:34 PM
What are you talking about? So any time Apple goes down it's the "evil speculators" and every time it goes up it's due to Apple's merits?

What I'm saying is that stock prices are always driven by speculators/investors, not company performance.

thekev
Jul 24, 2012, 04:34 PM
Good thing they'll soon be able to add that $2.5B settlement from Samsung to the bottom line.

Good luck with that:rolleyes:. I think they just threw out a big round number. The likelihood of it ending anywhere near such a net gain is quite low. Look at what they requested on the basis of trade dress. It's unlikely that you can find any such precedence for such a high percentage per device.

vladster
Jul 24, 2012, 04:36 PM
But with SJ gone, I am not very optimistic in what pertains to the long-term pipeline. So my prediction is that we'll see a slow trend back to the 90s - multiple product lines, lack of vision, lack of focus.

I feel like that as well. SJ brought a lot of success to the company with his leadership, vision, and ability to present and protect these. The issue he brought to the company - he became part of company's image. And now it feels like there's something missing.

All this is IMO.

Dmunjal
Jul 24, 2012, 04:36 PM
Learn a little about the Wall Street. Nobody cares about Apple's own expectations. Apple is well known to under-predict their sales (one average by 13%). Market sets company's stock price according to analyst expectations and when actual results miss those analyst expectations the stock will pay the price (i.e. fall)

However... Apple has always exceeded analyst expectations by a wide margin in the past. Even with Apple's conservative estimates, Apple exceeded those as well. For this quarter, it was the smallest beat compared to Apple's own estimates. Not a good sign.

Aspen
Jul 24, 2012, 04:36 PM
I still can't believe a $8.8 profit is a disappointment. I'm sure a lot of companies would love even get close to that.

The first part of the statement is incorrect. They did not beat (missed the lofty projections) nor is their guidance good. Believe it; the stock is down quite a bit.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:37 PM
However... Apple has always exceeded analyst expectations by a wide margin in the past. Even with Apple's conservative estimates, Apple exceeded those as well. For this quarter, it was the smallest beat compared to Apple's own estimates. Not a good sign.

So the heady days of Apple having "blowout" quarters compared to analyst estimates are over. Now they are like other companies, except with $118 billion cash in the bank. Alot of investors selling off at $570 making their profit as they believe Apple has plateaued.

cvaldes
Jul 24, 2012, 04:38 PM
we should not really care about Apple profits. The good news is that average selling prices of iPhone, iPads and Macs fell during this quarter.
Actually, as a consumer, wouldn't you prefer to buy a product from a well-managed, profitable company, rather than a poorly-managed one that doesn't seem to know how make money?

First of all, the profitable company has a better chance of surviving into the future, providing new and improved products down the line.

And what would you think about a company that can't run its business? Does that same management know how to hire the right people to make high-quality, attractive products and services in a timely manner?

RIM? Nokia? Palm?

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 04:38 PM
LOL.

Tim is talking about him reading all the rumors.

Wonder what his username is on MacRumors.

:p

bushido
Jul 24, 2012, 04:42 PM
not surprised about the decrease of iphone sales in europe at all. all i see is samsung now... and all those patent war news give apple a bad boy image in the press here unfortunately

Dmunjal
Jul 24, 2012, 04:42 PM
As was said, I think a lot of it has to do with rumors about the next iPhone. I've noticed that the "normal" person is becoming more and more informed. When I sold my original iPad on eBay before the second generation was announced, it was incredibly easy. Last year, I had to sell my second generation for $100 less because people knew the third generation was coming (and messaged me saying so), even though it had not been announced yet.

Tim Cook actually mentioned that all of these iPhone 5 rumors are actually slowing down sales of the 4S.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:42 PM
Actually, as a consumer, wouldn't you prefer to buy a product from a well-managed, profitable company, rather than a poorly-managed one that doesn't seem to know how make money?

First of all, the profitable company has a better chance of surviving into the future, providing new and improved products down the line.

And what would you think about a company that can't run its business? Does that same management know how to hire the right people to make high-quality, attractive products and services in a timely manner?

RIM? Nokia? Palm?

Palm got bought out by HP - not a company anymore. RIM is going out of business, they have little cash left and no BB 10 on the horizon. At least Nokia is releasing Lumia phones that people actually *want* to buy, plus Elop is doing a great job of restructuring the company to become profitable soon.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 04:43 PM
People are making a huge assumption that the iPhone 5 + iPad Mini are going to drive Apple into $13 billion EBITA # again and destroy the competition. Those heady days are over. Between everything that is happening with Samsung & Microsoft, competition is here.
Just like others will rush to assume Apple is doomed because of all the things you just suggested. Let's wait and see what happens once the new iPhone comes out (and anything else they might release yet this year). If the new iPhone comes out and they release an iPad mini and sales disappoint then you might be right. The new iPad beat estimates.

Aspen
Jul 24, 2012, 04:43 PM
Nobody's talking about the dividends!!! This will be the first dividend in a long time. I'm no money guy or market person so I don't know the ramifications for offering a dividend but I'm liking it since I'm long with AAPL.

Opinions?

They will pay a 2-2.5% dividend. Stock down 5% after hours. Dividends are not a good reason to buy stocks.

BornAgainApple
Jul 24, 2012, 04:45 PM
OH MY GOD, it's the end of the world!!! ;)

poloponies
Jul 24, 2012, 04:46 PM
That's amazing.

That's actually pretty typical. Aside from the usual "buy on the rumor, sell on the news" price drop, they usual forecast for the coming quarter panic sets in. I know people who daytrade Apple just because there's a predictability to the price fluctuations.

jouh
Jul 24, 2012, 04:46 PM
Good thing I sold all my AAPL-stocks yesterday! :D

lilo777
Jul 24, 2012, 04:47 PM
OH MY GOD, it's the end of the world!!! ;)

It's not. But it might be the end of AAPL as we knew it for the last 10 years.

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 04:47 PM
Apple is responsible to it's stockholders. They made a guidance. They exceeded that guidance. Stockholders should be happy.

Screw the stock market analysts.

lukemcurley
Jul 24, 2012, 04:47 PM
The strengthening dollar against the Euro would have affected profits negatively too. Doesn't seem to have been discussed much by analysts.

SpectatorHere
Jul 24, 2012, 04:47 PM
People are making a huge assumption that the iPhone 5 + iPad Mini are going to drive Apple into $13 billion EBITA # again and destroy the competition. Those heady days are over. Between everything that is happening with Samsung & Microsoft, competition is here.

The mini is really interesting, I think they're going to have to gimp it in order to maintain their crazy price structuring across iPhone/iPod/iPad model lines. They could bring the mini in at 200 and still make a nice profit, but then no one will spend over 500 for a big iPad or over 200 for an iPod.

The iPhone has already seen it's best days (sadly). They've milked the current model for all it's worth, and it looks as if they're about to give it a very small cosmetic upgrade with a still too small 4" screen and 4G and assume it will sell more than the 4s.

Bottom line is that Jobs was the guy who kept Apple cool, distinct, and different than Microsoft. Now it's run by Jobs' own business nerd-Ballmer.

Apple will go the same route as all the other mega corps. Boring, committee driven, marketing focused test-grouped-to-death, quarterly profit obsessed, no vision having, management heavy idiocy.

corduroygt
Jul 24, 2012, 04:47 PM
At least Nokia is releasing Lumia phones that people actually *want* to buy, plus Elop is doing a great job of restructuring the company to become profitable soon.
LOL, could you be any more clearer on your agenda, you Zune-pass owning Lumia 900 user? How many Lumia 900's did nokia sell last quarter? A million?

Check out NOK shares after Elop got on board if you want to see exactly how bad a company can be run.

Rennir
Jul 24, 2012, 04:50 PM
Actually, as a consumer, wouldn't you prefer to buy a product from a well-managed, profitable company, rather than a poorly-managed one that doesn't seem to know how make money?

First of all, the profitable company has a better chance of surviving into the future, providing new and improved products down the line.

And what would you think about a company that can't run its business? Does that same management know how to hire the right people to make high-quality, attractive products and services in a timely manner?

RIM? Nokia? Palm?

I don't know about you, but $8.8 billion is the definition of knowing how to make money IMO. I'm sure Apple will survive as well. Don't you think you're being a little bit too fatalistic?

Or rather, you're going down a pretty slippery slope there :)

iabacus
Jul 24, 2012, 04:50 PM
Your Mom Maybe, My Mother is a Virgin !!! :p

God?

gnasher729
Jul 24, 2012, 04:52 PM
Palm got bought out by HP - not a company anymore. RIM is going out of business, they have little cash left and no BB 10 on the horizon. At least Nokia is releasing Lumia phones that people actually *want* to buy, plus Elop is doing a great job of restructuring the company to become profitable soon.

Elop is doing an excellent job indeed. If you think his job is to reduce the price of Nokia, so that Microsoft can pick it up cheaply with all its mobile patents. :D

SpectatorHere
Jul 24, 2012, 04:52 PM
It's not. But it might be the end of AAPL as we knew it for the last 10 years.

We've seen enough of the post-Jobs Apple to see Tim Cook is just another zombie CEO afraid to take a chance and lacking any vision.

The question is, if Apple was leading the tech sector this past decade (hard to deny imo), who is leading now?

Is it Google? Google certainly is doing more, taking more chances.

mantan
Jul 24, 2012, 04:54 PM
Just looking at the graph of revenue, it appears everything held steady but a slight dip in Mac sales (due to, as others have noted, no new products for the entire first half of 2012) and a shocking dip in iPhone sales from Q2 to Q3. Compare iPhone sales for prior years and you don't see that kind of dip.

It's troubling, and perhaps a reflection that Apple's release cycle for the iPhone now typically has them playing catch up to the competition.

As others have pointed out, even if the iPhone 5 brings a 4 inch screen, LTE, and NFC, those are all features that have been in the leading Android phones for the past year. The wow factor that the iPhone once had has been tarnished somewhat by a surprisingly lack of innovation on Apple's part in recent years.

The iPad mini may well be a reflection of Apple's realization that going it alone with one flagship product on a yearly update cycle isn't going to cut it.

I'd say the iPad was innovative....not no much in the product itself (which essentially is a big iPad) - but creating a market where one didn't exist.

But I agree completely on the phone front. The iPhone 4 was the last innovative jump. The 4S treaded water and there hasn't been anything released about the new iPhone that makes it a game changer. Hopefully there will be some surprises in the release announcement.

But at this point the company can be on cruise control for awhile. The iPhone and iPad have people so deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem they don't seriously consider other options.

Jiten
Jul 24, 2012, 04:55 PM
The big picture is, the economy is crap right now, yet despite of that Apple did pretty well.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 04:55 PM
We've seen enough of the post-Jobs Apple to see Tim Cook is just another zombie CEO afraid to take a chance and lacking any vision.

The question is, if Apple was leading the tech sector this past decade (hard to deny imo), who is leading now?

Is it Google? Google certainly is doing more, taking more chances.

Cook is a great executor; but without vision, execution is irrelevant in the long term.

As much as I love Apple products (and I intend to continue using them as much as in the mid-90s, when everyone else was on PC), I must say this: short of a miracle, the Apple of SJ is no more...short it while you can - when dividends were announced, Apple stopped being a company based on innovation to become just another investment fund-driven MS...or Nestlé, for that matter.

Swift
Jul 24, 2012, 04:56 PM
Like the Facebook launch, when the speculators were angry at not getting the "pop" they used to get off IPO's -- which Internet bubble was followed by a recession -- now they're angry at Apple for the recession, too. Sorry, buddies. Fewer people with cash that you can fleece. Apple's run ahead of earnings projections for how long? Like Microsofts first loss ever, this is probably a turning point of sorts. Apple's been phenomenal, outgrowing the often unprofitable PCs for x numbers of quarters in a row. They still did, but their estimates, which have always been conservative, were not exceeded this time. No time to cry "panic," but look, no company does well if we head down sharply.

bawbac
Jul 24, 2012, 04:56 PM
Inertia

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 04:58 PM
Cook is a great executor; but without vision, execution is irrelevant in the long term.

As much as I love Apple products (and I intend to continue using them as much as in the mid-90s, when everyone else was on PC), I must say this: short of a miracle, the Apple of SJ is no more...short it while you can - when dividends were announced, Apple stopped being a company based on innovation to become just another investment fund-driven MS...or Nestlé, for that matter.

Allegedly Jobs left Apple with 4 years of products designs in the pipeline. I think that's overstated. I believe he really left one product - the television.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 04:59 PM
Can people quit with the Apple is doomed because Steve is no longer here. It's not like they didn't have misses while he was running the ship. And it's not like Steve was the only one with ideas or vision at Apple. Get a grip people. :rolleyes:

SpectatorHere
Jul 24, 2012, 05:00 PM
I'd say the iPad was innovative....not no much in the product itself (which essentially is a big iPad) - but creating a market where one didn't exist.

But I agree completely on the phone front. The iPhone 4 was the last innovative jump. The 4S treaded water and there hasn't been anything released about the new iPhone that makes it a game changer. Hopefully there will be some surprises in the release announcement.

But at this point the company can be on cruise control for awhile. The iPhone and iPad have people so deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem they don't seriously consider other options.

I completely agree, they are in no danger of becoming RIM (although I do wonder about Apple's iPhone strategy....conservative is putting it mildly). Apple will be a big player for the foreseeable future.

The thing is, they're now more like Microsoft...following everyone else.

Take the new iPad mini. They said they wouldn't do it. Amazon goes out and does it, and what do you know? The new iPad-mini will be out by the next xmas season.

Innovation in iOS? Stealing the notification center of Android? Integrating Twitter? Now Facebook? All the while they're gimping OSX so it's more like iOS.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 05:01 PM
Allegedly Jobs left Apple with 4 years of products designs in the pipeline. I think that's overstated. I believe he really left one product - the television.

For me the "television" is a revamped Apple TV (with apps and Siri), nothing more; because product cycle is much more difficult in the case of huge, expensive TV sets; people won't change them every year or two.

But I agree with you: the incremental updates to the iPad and OS X show that SJ's only last "pipeline frontier" is probably the so-called Apple TV. The rest will be committee-designed fluff from now on.

APPLE IS DEAD.

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 05:03 PM
For me the "television" is a revamped Apple TV (with apps and Siri), nothing more; because product cycle is much more difficult in the case of huge, expensive TV sets; people won't change them every year or two.

But I agree with you: the incremental updates to the iPad and OS X show that SJ's only last "pipeline frontier" is probably the so-called Apple TV. The rest will be committee-designed fluff from now on.

APPLE IS DEAD.

Apple is dead.


I'm guessing since Apple is dead you will be getting rid of that stuff in your signature ?

I'll giva ya $100 for it.
Remember APPLE IS DEAD so that stuff isn't worth much anymore.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 05:04 PM
For me the "television" is a revamped Apple TV (with apps and Siri), nothing more; because product cycle is much more difficult in the case of huge, expensive TV sets; people won't change them every year or two.

But I agree with you: the incremental updates to the iPad and OS X show that SJ's only last "pipeline frontier" is probably the so-called Apple TV. The rest will be committee-designed fluff from now on.

APPLE IS DEAD.

Apple has plenty of momentum. That along with their $118 billion cash pile will ensure they are around for the next 50 years. The real story is they will finally get serious competition starting in Q4 2012 with the deluge of Windows 8 PCs, hybrids, tablets, ultrabooks along with the next Kindle Fire and who knows what else. Samsung is already getting ready to making flexible AMOLED screens.

SpectatorHere
Jul 24, 2012, 05:04 PM
Allegedly Jobs left Apple with 4 years of products designs in the pipeline. I think that's overstated. I believe he really left one product - the television.

4 years? That's a joke in the tech world. What they mean is that they had road maps for existing product lines.

Apple TV is clearly something Jobs wanted, so you're right there.

But anything else with vision? I don't see it. Google glasses came out and then Apple put something out, "we're doing that too!"

Don't underestimate the loss of Steve Jobs. He may have been one guy, but it was his company and he decided what happened. Jobs drove the market, now Apple is headless, a zombie corporation run by quarterly profits and shareholder meetings. It is HP. It is Microsoft. It is no longer the Apple you once knew.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 05:05 PM
For me the "television" is a revamped Apple TV (with apps and Siri), nothing more; because product cycle is much more difficult in the case of huge, expensive TV sets; people won't change them every year or two.

But I agree with you: the incremental updates to the iPad and OS X show that SJ's only last "pipeline frontier" is probably the so-called Apple TV. The rest will be committee-designed fluff from now on.

APPLE IS DEAD.

Yep a company that reports 8.8B in profits and 117B in cash is dead. Not sure if you're really that stupid or just trolling.

Chlloret
Jul 24, 2012, 05:05 PM
Because the street's expectations are higher. Apple typically outperforms its own conservative guidance, somewhere between 20-30% higher on revenue and maybe 25-35% higher on earnings.

Typically 20-30%? Really? Must have misst something there in the last 9 years since I got AAPL. My records show about 13%, but I must say that todays result is far from disapointing for me.
Stock is normally loosing anywhere from 5-8% on the day, after all, it has been hyped for the few days before the call by at least the same.
Those are the easy and quick money makers and making 5-8% in a week is a good if risky business.
I never looked daily or hourly on share prices, I'm quite happy with Apples performance in the last 9years. And now I even get a dividend. That alone is getting me my next iPhone and iPad.

tkermit
Jul 24, 2012, 05:06 PM
APPLE IS DEAD.

I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.

osaga
Jul 24, 2012, 05:06 PM
My interpretation of this. iPod is slowly dying, Macs are stagnant and will continue to be so as ultrabooks take off. iPhone has finally met its match with the Samsung Galaxy line and Windows Phone 8 will take even bigger bite to come. The only thing that Apple is truly dominant is tablets where they have no real competition as of yet. That will change with Windows 8.

The windows 8 tablet/phone/operating system will be an gigantic flop. The tablet is too expensive, looks like a PC product (ridiculous kick-stand, pointless keyboard), and doesn't have nearly the apps. The computer operating system is a major upgrade, but who cares to upgrade their PC OS? Especially if it's a dramatic change. I'm guessing people will prefer to stick with windows 7. Windows based PC sales are declining, Apple is the only computer maker gaining sales in that category.

The android OS is fragmented between all the different makes of phones, and app developers prefer to produce apps for apple because its easier than making them for all the different android versions. Android users don't/cant easily update their OS. Something like 12% of all previous androids are running the latest version, unlike apple with is at 80%. The majority of profits in the app world are from IOS devices, despite that, IOS has just 30% of smartphone share vs. android at 55%. According to a survey, 90% of iphone users will buy another Iphone. That's no the case with any other manufacturer. If any Android user happens to switch to an iphone, there's a 90% chance they'll stay with apple in the future.

Apple Q1 2013 will be astonishing.

The apple dividend is a better return than US treasury bonds, and probably safer. Apple has no debt unlike, and a bunch of cash. The 14 P/E ratio is a value buy, yet they have lots of growth ahead not only abroad but also in the US. They're barely even available on China telecom companies.

Is there any other stock that has as much going for it at such a reasonable price?

The only problems i can see is if the itv is a disaster. Or if the cell phone carriers get together and collectively refuse to pay high iphone subsidies. Neither seem likely.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 05:06 PM
Apple is dead.


I'm guessing since Apple is dead you will be getting rid of that stuff in your signature ?

I'll giva ya $100 for it.
Remember APPLE IS DEAD so that stuff isn't worth much anymore.

No, I won't - I already used Apple in the mid-90s, when everyone else was jumping ship. Please understand my statement in a context of innovation and growth instead of taking it literally. Just like MS, Apple has a few years to burn; but with SJ gone, the long-term vision is no longer there. Cook won't fill that void.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 05:07 PM
4 years? That's a joke in the tech world. What they mean is that they had road maps for existing product lines.

Apple TV is clearly something Jobs wanted, so you're right there.

But anything else with vision? I don't see it. Google glasses came out and then Apple put something out, "we're doing that too!"

Don't underestimate the loss of Steve Jobs. He may have been one guy, but it was his company and he decided what happened. Jobs drove the market, now Apple is headless, a zombie corporation run by quarterly profits and shareholder meetings. It is HP. It is Microsoft. It is no longer the Apple you once knew.

Ironically Microsoft is showing more vision under "business nerd" Ballmer these days then Apple.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 05:07 PM
4 years? That's a joke in the tech world. What they mean is that they had road maps for existing product lines.

Apple TV is clearly something Jobs wanted, so you're right there.

But anything else with vision? I don't see it. Google glasses came out and then Apple put something out, "we're doing that too!"

Don't underestimate the loss of Steve Jobs. He may have been one guy, but it was his company and he decided what happened. Jobs drove the market, now Apple is headless, a zombie corporation run by quarterly profits and shareholder meetings. It is HP. It is Microsoft. It is no longer the Apple you once knew.

Just curious where I can purchase these glasses you speak of and what they're good for?

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 05:09 PM
The windows 8 tablet/phone/operating system will be an gigantic flop. The tablet is too expensive, looks like a PC product (ridiculous kick-stand, pointless keyboard), and doesn't have nearly the apps. The computer operating system is a major upgrade, but who cares to upgrade their PC OS? Especially if it's a dramatic change. I'm guessing people will prefer to stick with windows 7. Windows based PC sales are declining, Apple is the only computer maker gaining sales in that category.

I will hold you to that. I expect Windows 8 + WP8 devices to be flying off the shelves by Christmas with no end in sight.

nick_elt
Jul 24, 2012, 05:11 PM
id love my business to have a "dissapointing" quarter that aapl just had...

CraigJ
Jul 24, 2012, 05:11 PM
Apple missed their declared earnings they predicted. That's the story. I don't know MR chose not to report this.

This is an entirely inaccurate statement. You must be a stock analyst.

Renzatic
Jul 24, 2012, 05:13 PM
The windows 8 tablet/phone/operating system will be an gigantic flop. The tablet is too expensive, looks like a PC product (ridiculous kick-stand, pointless keyboard), and doesn't have nearly the apps. The computer operating system is a major upgrade, but who cares to upgrade their PC OS? Especially if it's a dramatic change. I'm guessing people will prefer to stick with windows 7. Windows based PC sales are declining, Apple is the only computer maker gaining sales in that category.

Firstly, I think MS actually saw a goodly increase this year. Windows 7 is still selling like hotcakes, and they've still got a whole ton of momentum.

Secondly, Windows 8 isn't all that different from 7. It's more like "WINDOWS! NOW WITH A NEW START SCREEN, A BUNCH OF APPS YOU PROBABLY WON'T USE, AND LIKE REALLY FAST".

Thirdly, what's so bad about the kickstand, and pointless about the keyboard? One of the first things I did when I got my iPad was buy Apple's bluetooth keyboard, the smartcover, and got a woodworking friend of mine to carve out a stand (so I could set it up in portrait instead of landscape). The Surface is basically all the stuff I listed above, save in one package. I don't get the hate for it.

Oletros
Jul 24, 2012, 05:13 PM
Impressive numbers

jvmxtra
Jul 24, 2012, 05:13 PM
While apple's past growth was unattainable, clearly company is becoming bit bloated and too much backward responsibility.

It is time to not only take some chances(Release multiple size iphone, get some radical changes in laptop as well as bigger change in both osx and ios) but shake up their boring team and have people w/ balls to get stuff going for real. Definitely have to fire and hire some new blood in iphone department as design team for iphone did nothing for past 2 years for sure.
OSX design team? Doing nothing but trying to copy what IOS does.. which is definitely stupid as for "addition" it's ok but not as a main feature. Some of us are professional and need real machine and not toys.

People who thinks one size iphone fits iphone is clearly missing the idea. How is samsung doing it? That's big time lost revenu. This has to be on going process of reviewing what you have and figure out what people want. Currently, apple is going by their reputation and not by truly great stuff.

I would be worried if next big announcement from apple is just mini ipad.

Maybe it's time for me to jump out of apple fan boy bandwagon. I gave apple benefit of the doubt when they trolled out iphone 4s... They won't get that pass w/ iphone 5.

xanagu
Jul 24, 2012, 05:15 PM
Disappointing 3Q earnings = Good for me, good for you, good for everybody

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 05:16 PM
Firstly, I think MS actually saw a goodly increase this year. Windows 7 is still selling like hotcakes, and they've still got a whole ton of momentum.

Secondly, Windows 8 isn't all that different from 7. It's more like "WINDOWS! NOW WITH A NEW START SCREEN, A BUNCH OF APPS YOU PROBABLY WON'T USE, AND LIKE REALLY FAST".

Thirdly, what's so bad about the kickstand, and pointless about the keyboard? One of the first things I did when I got my iPad was buy Apple's bluetooth keyboard, the smartcover, and got a woodworking friend of mine to carve out a stand (so I could set it up in portrait instead of landscape). The Surface is basically all the stuff I listed above, save in one package. I don't get the hate for it.

Haters want to hate, especially the ones that hate Microsoft. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 05:17 PM
No, I won't - I already used Apple in the mid-90s, when everyone else was jumping ship. Please understand my statement in a context of innovation and growth instead of taking it literally. Just like MS, Apple has a few years to burn; but with SJ gone, the long-term vision is no longer there. Cook won't fill that void.

I agree Cook won't and can't fill that void but there is another person at Apple that can do a pretty good job in the vision dept.

Jonny Ives ..

Without him I would say Apple would have a definite vision problem.

While I'm here I'd like to say they need to get rid of Scott Forstall.

KnightWRX
Jul 24, 2012, 05:26 PM
a shocking dip in iPhone sales from Q2 to Q3. Compare iPhone sales for prior years and you don't see that kind of dip.

There is no dip in 2011. Q2 2011, Apple sold 18.65 million iPhones (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20Apple-Reports-Second-Quarter-Results.html) and managed to beat that number with 20.34 million iPhones sold in Q3 (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/19Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html). That's a quarter to quarter increase.

Compare that to this year where Q2 saw sales of 35.1 million iPhones (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/04/24Apple-Reports-Second-Quarter-Results.html) vs this announced quarter's sales of 26.0 million iPhones (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/07/24Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html)

2011 - Q2 to Q3 saw 8.3% increase in units sales. 2012 - Q2 to Q3 saw 35% decrease in units sales. That's pretty much polar opposites. Of course, Q2 2012 was exceptional and never before seen for Apple, selling 35.1 million iPhones was quite the feat and beating that with a 8-9 months old phone was probably quite impossible.

All their quarterly reports are here for anyone who wants to look up historical numbers. (http://investor.apple.com/results.cfm)

Renzatic
Jul 24, 2012, 05:28 PM
Haters want to hate, especially the ones that hate Microsoft. I've never seen anything like it in my life.

Yeah, it's weird. Some people treat them like the company who can do no right, and think every move they make is stupid.

If you ask me, as of right now, they're the best they've ever been. Now that Apple's come out of left field and shocked the hell out of everyone, they're feeling the heat, and actually getting around to doing some really interesting stuff these days.

wizard
Jul 24, 2012, 05:31 PM
It's not a "panic sell-off". People expected certain results, Apple missed those expectations.

Expectations of analyst without a clue.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 05:32 PM
Yeah, it's weird. Some people treat them like the company who can do no right, and think every move they make is stupid.

If you ask me, as of right now, they're the best they've ever been. Now that Apple's come out of left field and shocked the hell out of everyone, they're feeling the heat, and actually getting around to doing some really interesting stuff these days.

Yeah it's pretty amazing what they're doing in response to Apple.

dashiel
Jul 24, 2012, 05:32 PM
It's not a "panic sell-off". People expected certain results, Apple missed those expectations.

Perhaps knee-jerk is more appropriate. I’ve been following Apple stock since '96 and Wall Street always overreacts to “bad” news from Apple. People like watching Apple stumble.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 05:35 PM
I agree Cook won't and can't fill that void but there is another person at Apple that can do a pretty good job in the vision dept.

Jonny Ives ..

Without him I would say Apple would have a definite vision problem.

While I'm here I'd like to say they need to get rid of Scott Forstall.

Yep, and perhaps Federighi as well; and while they're are it RE-HIRE Serlet, Tevanian and Rubinstein.

KnightWRX
Jul 24, 2012, 05:36 PM
Expectations of analyst without a clue.

Well, if everyone here is right and their guidances are usually low by 10-20% of their actual earnings and this time they only managed to barely beat their own guidances, maybe analysts aren't so much without a clue. They probably simply took into account Apple's usual low-ball predictions. It just so happens that this time Apple was right.

Now can you consider that good considering their last 10 years ? If a runner always tells you he's going to come in in 35-36 seconds and always manages to do it in 28, the day he does it in 34, are you going to say he's doing good or are you going to start raising eyebrows ?

Of course, Apple couldn't go on forever on a winning streak constantly. Maintaining record growth and record quarters was bound to end one day or another.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 05:39 PM
I agree Cook won't and can't fill that void but there is another person at Apple that can do a pretty good job in the vision dept.

Jonny Ives ..

Without him I would say Apple would have a definite vision problem.

While I'm here I'd like to say they need to get rid of Scott Forstall.
The only thing that worries me (and I'm NOT one who thinks SJ was god or the only one with vision at Apple) is at the D-10 conference when Tim Cook was asked about who the product curator is he gave sort of a wish washy answer saying it always moves around. That does make me wonder a bit about his vision. Or if there is one person who can take the reigns and drive the vision. I see Cook as more of an operations guy than a product visionary.

----------

Yep, and perhaps Federighi as well; and while they're are it RE-HIRE Serlet, Tevanian and Rubinstein.
Jon Rubinstein? Are you for real?!?

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 05:39 PM
The only thing that worries me (and I'm NOT one who thinks SJ was god or the only one with vision at Apple) is at the D-10 conference when Tim Cook was asked about who the product curator is he gave sort of a wish washy answer saying it always moves around. That does make me wonder a bit about his vision. Or if there is one person who can take the reigns and drive the vision. I see Cook as more of an operations guy than a product visionary.

This was clear from day one; as far as vision is concerned, Cook is as blind as a mole.

osaga
Jul 24, 2012, 05:39 PM
All the aapl haters say this:

"Just look at that exponentially shaped price chart. That sort of thing is just unsustainable. nuff said." Ok sure, but you don't know when it'll level out and there's no good reason why it should anytime soon.

"SJ is gone, the genius is dead." True, but his style and vision was simple, and there's no reason why Cook and Ives can't continue.

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 05:42 PM
----------

[/COLOR]
Jon Rubinstein? Are you for real?!?

Don't like him either but his achievements at Apple were considerable, not to mention WebOS...with discipline he would be a great addition again; although discipline seems to be lacking at Apple right now.

IJ Reilly
Jul 24, 2012, 05:46 PM
They guided $8.68 per share on $34 billion and delivered $9.32 on $35 billion. Certainly not what people were hoping for, but they didn't miss their guidance.

Unfortunately for investors, guidance is an essentially meaningless number. Everyone knows that guidance is an ultra-conservative joke number. If they don't beat the nearly as conservative institutional numbers by at least 10%, then they will have failed to meet the only expectation that actually matters.

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 05:46 PM
Don't like him either but his achievements at Apple were considerable, not to mention WebOS...with discipline he would be a great addition again; although discipline seems to be lacking at Apple right now.

I must agree with you. There no longer is a jerk running around cussing people out and pushing them using their famous RDFilator.

I miss Steve.

wizard
Jul 24, 2012, 05:50 PM
jesus christ! :eek:






:d

😉😉😉😉😉😉😉

----------

And if the stupidly myopic iPad Mini is REALLY launched by Cook (due to his pandering to the benighted crowds), the disaster is gonna be even bigger...short it while you can.

If iPad Mini or what ever they call it does launch I see significant success. Maybe not the volumes of the current iPad but certainly as good as Touch.

IJ Reilly
Jul 24, 2012, 05:55 PM
Look at every earnings call. The price bounds up in the days prior to the quarterly results and then boom, it takes a hit.

You get non stop product rumours prior to the results too, anything to build the price then these guys cash in, drop the price and buy back. Easy money really.

Not true in reality. If they beat the street significantly, the stock will generally rise. This is not a street beat. It is a street beating. Investors will be drubbed accordingly.

----------

They will pay a 2-2.5% dividend. Stock down 5% after hours. Dividends are not a good reason to buy stocks.

Dividends are an excellent reason to buy stocks but only if you are an investor.

Twixt
Jul 24, 2012, 05:55 PM
Panic sell-off despite the great numbers. Lots of logic used in the market right?

Sell on the news, I am a seller as well.
This is great Q but doesnt reflect brilliant future...

wizard
Jul 24, 2012, 05:59 PM
Exactly. Something smells bad at Apple, and ML and a moronic iPad Mini will not help much.

Considering the quarter and the rest of the market these are excellent numbers for Apple. Beyond that what is with your emotional problem within iPad Mini? IOS has been a tremendous success for Apple, it would be irresponsible of them not to put it on more devices to cover different markets.

Technarchy
Jul 24, 2012, 06:01 PM
The only thing that worries me (and I'm NOT one who thinks SJ was god or the only one with vision at Apple) is at the D-10 conference when Tim Cook was asked about who the product curator is he gave sort of a wish washy answer saying it always moves around. That does make me wonder a bit about his vision. Or if there is one person who can take the reigns and drive the vision. I see Cook as more of an operations guy than a product visionary.[COLOR="#808080"]



SJ was a driving force. An insane perfectionist, and that is my larger concern.

Someone else can think of a great idea for a great product, but without an insane person hanging over you pushing you to the limit, that product might never reach its potential.

The iPhone could very easily have been a great concept that fell short without SJ driving everyone insane.

The Toy Story "story" is funny. Steve making his friends watch it 75 times just to show the progression of CGI shadows. Tim Cook is not insane like that.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 06:07 PM
This was clear from day one; as far as vision is concerned, Cook is as blind as a mole.

Yet SJ picked Cook as his replacement. I can only speculate he did so because Cook is an operations genius, someone the board had confidence in and was someone the rest of the leadership team could work for (there were rumors that Ive and Mansfield don't get along with Forstsll).

----------

I must agree with you. There no longer is a jerk running around cussing people out and pushing them using their famous RDFilator.

I miss Steve.

Well according to Adam Lashinsky that's Forstall. ;)

50548
Jul 24, 2012, 06:08 PM
Considering the quarter and the rest of the market these are excellent numbers for Apple. Beyond that what is with your emotional problem within iPad Mini? IOS has been a tremendous success for Apple, it would be irresponsible of them not to put it on more devices to cover different markets.

The problem with this flawed rationale is that it reminds me of the terrible days of the Quadra, Performa, LC, Centris, PowerMac...with SJ Apple had confidence in its "thin as a paperclip" product line; it didn't care about Nexus or any other copycat crap.

In other words, the iPad Mini seems like a desperate attempt at catching up to a threat that doesn't really exist...unless you have lost the initiative on the battlefield, of course.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 06:11 PM
Considering the quarter and the rest of the market these are excellent numbers for Apple. Beyond that what is with your emotional problem within iPad Mini? IOS has been a tremendous success for Apple, it would be irresponsible of them not to put it on more devices to cover different markets.

Europe has been a drag on a lot of companies. What big name company has reported great numbers this quarter? On CNBC today they were talking about stimulus needed from the Fed to stave off recession.

Klae17
Jul 24, 2012, 06:12 PM
One more reason to dump the brand and fold the surviving products (the touch and nano) into the iPad line. Leaving the iPod brand alive is just a quarterly reminder that as quickly as a product flies off the shelves, it can eventually fall into irrelevance.

I assume Other is primarily on the strength of the Apple TV? If so, then Apple's "hobby" is outselling an entire line of products featured in the main navigation on their website, and which was once the cornerstone of Apple's resurgence. It's time to retire the iPod brand and focus on getting that iTV out the door.

They will probably keep the iPod brand, especially for people who don't need an iPhone, are still in phone contracts, teenagers, iPod Shuffles (gateway?). Sales might go down further with the price drop if the iPad Mini pushes the price down.

Also, iTV will need a remote. The Apple Remote isn't enough to type in search and I use my iPad or iPhone when surfing, it is just easier in case I need to look something up. I bet the new iTV will have a lot more features (Apps?) that might need an iPod.

I think the Nano needs a major price drop, getting rid of the touchscreen and gimmicks of it will help. Or, with the new one, if it can serve as a remote (has virtual keyboard?) that will help keep the Nano relevant

IJ Reilly
Jul 24, 2012, 06:14 PM
Europe has been a drag on a lot of companies. What big name company has reported great numbers this quarter? On CNBC today they were talking about stimulus needed from the Fed to stave off recession.

What we really need is for the EU to get its act together. Their ship is sinking fast, and they're bailing with teacups.

Peace
Jul 24, 2012, 06:17 PM
Yet SJ picked Cook as his replacement. I can only speculate he did so because Cook is an operations genius, someone the board had confidence in and was someone the rest of the leadership team could work for (there were rumors that Ive and Mansfield don't get along with Forstsll).

----------



Well according to Adam Lashinsky that's Forstall. ;)

Forstall without the genius. Big difference.

marcusj0015
Jul 24, 2012, 06:17 PM
Apple's desperate legal trolling of Samsung all over the world tells me that the iPad fad might be just about up, and I say that as an owner of 2 iPads. Only because there isn't anything better at the moment, until Window 8 tablets come out.

Because the average consumer gives a **** about Samsung, or Android.

And it's not "Trolling" Samsung blatantly copied Apple, and deserves everything they got.

bpaluzzi
Jul 24, 2012, 06:24 PM
At least Nokia is releasing Lumia phones that people actually *want* to buy, plus Elop is doing a great job of restructuring the company to become profitable soon.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Wow. Just.... wow.

wizard
Jul 24, 2012, 06:28 PM
4 years? That's a joke in the tech world. What they mean is that they had road maps for existing product lines.

Apple TV is clearly something Jobs wanted, so you're right there.

Apple has some of the smartest engineers on the planet working for them, I'm sure there are plenty of ideas being worked on in the labs. It is a mistake to believe that Jobs invented everything at Apple. Even with iPhone he realized that the tablet people actually had the perfect interface for an iPhone and retasked them to build iPhone.

But anything else with vision? I don't see it. Google glasses came out and then Apple put something out, "we're doing that too!"

Of course you don't see it, Apple doesn't let out prerelease information on anything. As a point in fact Google had to hire Apple employees to get those glasses out the door.

Don't underestimate the loss of Steve Jobs.

True, many companies fall flat on their faces once the driving force is removed. However we have seen nothing to indicate that is a problem today. In fact Apple is in a rather strong position technology wise across all of its products.

He may have been one guy, but it was his company and he decided what happened. Jobs drove the market, now Apple is headless, a zombie corporation run by quarterly profits and shareholder meetings. It is HP. It is Microsoft. It is no longer the Apple you once knew.

That has yet to be proven. All I see here is a bunch of people taking relatively good numbers and trying to turn then into evidence of some sort of failure at Apple. That is very far from the case, actuality is Apple did very well in a market where the economy is rapidly turning to a significant depression.

Step back a minute and look at the new Retina MBP which is a technology showcase and a very progressive machine when held up to what is produced world wide. It very much represents what Apple is all about and is years ahead of the competition. This combined with other hardware represents the best of what is available to consumers. Now obviously Steve wasn't around to put his marketing spin on the machine, but if that is all you see then you have a rather pathetic sense of value.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 06:28 PM
Forstall without the genius. Big difference.To me the biggest problems with Apple right now are: iOS is stale and Siri just isn't that great. Forstall has responsibility over both of those things. But I personally didn't see any iOS stuff at WWDC that blew me away. Ooh Siri is going to provide me with sports data now. Whoopee. Maps has navigation now. Great, my POS Android phone from 2 years ago already had that. If Apple didn't have the rMBP to announce WWDC would've been a dud.

AppliedMicro
Jul 24, 2012, 06:35 PM
The iPhone 4 was released in June 2010. Yes, the 4S is still a great a great smartphone, but it is nothing more than a rehash of the 4. It is widely perceived as being the "essentially same thing" as the iPhone 4. And before anyone mentions Siri: I don't know about Northern America, but Siri is barely usable for many users, except for maybe simple voice commands and dictation - which few people seem to use in my experience. Siri couldn't and still doesn't even find (and show) the way to the next friggin' train station in my country (and my country should have one of the highest ratios of train usage per capita in the world).

- Apple haven't released a (truly) new Smartphone for over 2 years.
- Apple's lineup of Desktop Macs hasn't seen any update for over a year (If we discount the almost laughable "upgrade" on the Mac Pro)
- The Retina MacBook Pro was introduced towards the end of the fiscal quarter, with Apple severly struggling to meet initial demand.

Is it any wonder that sales for last quarter were down? :confused:

Better sales will come with new products - it's that simple (as the 3rd gen. iPad proves).

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 06:36 PM
Step back a minute and look at the new Retina MBP which is a technology showcase and a very progressive machine when held up to what is produced world wide. It very much represents what Apple is all about and is years ahead of the competition. This combined with other hardware represents the best of what is available to consumers. Now obviously Steve wasn't around to put his marketing spin on the machine, but if that is all you see then you have a rather pathetic sense of value.
IMO Apple doesn't have an issue on the hardware side. They push out some of the best hardware that on the Mac side at least is getting imitated left, right and center. Of course the one most likely calling the shots on the hardware side is Jony Ive, who was very close to Steve. Is there an Ive on the software side?

SpectatorHere
Jul 24, 2012, 06:39 PM
The problem with this flawed rationale is that it reminds me of the terrible days of the Quadra, Performa, LC, Centris, PowerMac...with SJ Apple had confidence in its "thin as a paperclip" product line; it didn't care about Nexus or any other copycat crap.

In other words, the iPad Mini seems like a desperate attempt at catching up to a threat that doesn't really exist...unless you have lost the initiative on the battlefield, of course.

This is exactly right.

SJ leaving could have freed up Apple and unleashed a ton of innovation and creativity he'd bottled up. Or, SJ leaving could result in an extremely cautious and conservative approach.

Considering the amount of money the big wigs at Apple have tied up in company stock, I think we're seeing the predictable, unfortunate, second approach.

marcusj0015
Jul 24, 2012, 06:42 PM
Plenty of things to think about from this call. I doubt 85% y/y growth of the iPad is something to worry about.

Lol, he's not worrying, he's spreading bull **** on Apple forums, so people will get scared and he's hoping it will actually affect the market, but it won't. lmao.

----------

Apple killing the XServe is proof enough that they gave up on the enterprise market. Of course iPads are the leading BYOD tablet into the enterprise until Windows 8 hits.

Clearly Windows 8 will save us from Apple's dominance, the fact that everyone who's ever used it despises it means nothing at all.

wizard
Jul 24, 2012, 06:46 PM
The problem with this flawed rationale is that it reminds me of the terrible days of the Quadra, Performa, LC, Centris, PowerMac...with SJ Apple had confidence in its "thin as a paperclip" product line; it didn't care about Nexus or any other copycat crap.

A excessively thin product line up boxes you in and also leaves you open to loss of sales due to products that better fit user needs. Honestly I can't see how anybody can look at Apples current desktop lineup and seriously say they are on the right track. Apple is doing well with portable, where by coincidence they have plenty of models, but not so well on the desktop. That is due in no part to the fact that they have the worst hardware lineup in years for desktop machines.

Now you seem to imply that Apple should remain short sighted and conservative with respect to the iPad. This my friend is stupid, they need to grab as much of the market as they can. The number one reason to support 7" tablets is that people like them, as they are easy to carry.

In other words, the iPad Mini seems like a desperate attempt at catching up to a threat that doesn't really exist...unless you have lost the initiative on the battlefield, of course.

Baloney! I'm pretty certain that Apple never intended the iPad concept to remain in a single form factor. It may take them awhile to bring out other sizes but it would be foolish not to sew up the market. In the same manner that a 7" iPad is a good idea so is the idea of a 13" iPad.

I see a similar strategy unfolding with respect to iPhone. It looks like a larger model is coming but I really doesn't see the current form factor going away, I could actually see it shrink some. Given that the market isn't made of customers all poured from the same mold the only wise move is to give people a choice.

wizard
Jul 24, 2012, 06:57 PM
IOS is anything but stale and support an ever improving stable of apps that are at your finger tips.

To me the biggest problems with Apple right now are: iOS is stale and Siri just isn't that great. Forstall has responsibility over both of those things.

It sounds like you have been trained to dwell on the negative and explode out of proportion anything you dislike about a product. IOS is far from stale and is developing into a great tool for people that actually use the iPhone as more than a toy. IOS is in fact one of the only tools that Improves daily.

But I personally didn't see any iOS stuff at WWDC that blew me away.

Sorry to hear that. Again you need to look at the big picture instead of dwelling on the minor things that bother you. IOS 6 is another great leap for developers. As such it means a steady stream of new and improved apps.

Ooh Siri is going to provide me with sports data now. Whoopee. Maps has navigation now. Great, my POS Android phone from 2 years ago already had that. If Apple didn't have the rMBP to announce WWDC would've been a dud.
WWDC = World Wide Developers Conference. Note that it is a developer conference it isnt a platform to amaze stupid users but rather an event to encourage developer to grab on to the latest features in iOS. As a side note if you don't understand the importance of Apple deploying their own mapping technology then you are totally clueless about iOS.

AppliedMicro
Jul 24, 2012, 06:57 PM
This my friend is stupid, they need to grab as much of the market as they can. The number one reason to support 7" tablets is that people like them, as they are easy to carry.
I am personally not a big fan of a 7" iPad and can only the concept flawed in terms of size/usability.
Still, there is a fundamental difference between 7" tablets vs. 10" tablets and Quadra vs. Performa vs. Centris:

Normal people can (figuratively but also very literally) grasp a tablet and see how and why different sizes might fit into their lives, be suited to their needs - or not.

Whereas the differentiation in Mac desktops used to be a big mess, which nobody really understood and few cared about.

ReallyBigFeet
Jul 24, 2012, 06:59 PM
Now, tell me again. What do analysts do, and why should we care?

Analysts manipulate the stock market. And you should care because that's your investment portfolio they are screwing.

marcusj0015
Jul 24, 2012, 07:02 PM
Hmm. the argument for or against an iPad mini is a dilemma, Idk what Apple should do. A 7'' iPad seems REALLY small though. :/

Shaun, UK
Jul 24, 2012, 07:06 PM
Wish they would do something constructive with all that cash. It's not doing Apple shareholders much good just sitting there collecting bugger all in interest. Use it to make strategic acquisitions that will add to the bottom line and provide Apple users with more products to buy. Either that or give it away to charity.

alexN350z
Jul 24, 2012, 07:07 PM
My interpretation of this. iPod is slowly dying, Macs are stagnant and will continue to be so as ultrabooks take off. iPhone has finally met its match with the Samsung Galaxy line and Windows Phone 8 will take even bigger bite to come. The only thing that Apple is truly dominant is tablets where they have no real competition as of yet. That will change with Windows 8.

You do realise there is a new tablet call Google Nexus 7.

wizard
Jul 24, 2012, 07:10 PM
IMO Apple doesn't have an issue on the hardware side. They push out some of the best hardware that on the Mac side at least is getting imitated left, right and center. Of course the one most likely calling the shots on the hardware side is Jony Ive, who was very close to Steve. Is there an Ive on the software side?

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, maybe you haven't looked at the desktop lineup. Frankly it is pathetic!! Nothing in the way of an iMac, Mini or Mac Pro update, with some of these products being very old in the marketplace. More so many of these products have lost their reason for being due to neglect and not keeping an eye on the ball. The iMac has been a joke for the last couple of years, the Mini is artificially keep down and the Mac Pro is a joke at this point. I'd have to say when looking at the desktop Apple does indeed have hardware issues. Frankly I think I've is part of the problem here and to much form over function happens with respect to the desktop machines.

This is in stark contrast to the laptops. The laptops are much more balanced and actually priced more reasonably than the desktop machines.

As to the OS I really see Mac OS as a string point with Apple though I do wish more effort was put into quality control. Even on my old 2008 MBP it runs fairly decently, certainly far better than Windows would on such a machine. More so Apple has taken a very balanced approach with OS updates, Mac OS is a very strong UNIX platform for gurus and a great GUI for others. It is very much a Ying/Yang OS.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 07:11 PM
You do realise there is a new tablet call Google Nexus 7.

Until I see numbers it's not competition.

AppliedMicro
Jul 24, 2012, 07:28 PM
The iMac has been a joke for the last couple of years
"For the last couple of years"?

Why?
What's wrong with it?
21.5" and 27" are great designs that are less than three years old.
People seem to like and buy them.

A speedbump is overdue, though.

(And yes, I still believe Apple could sell lots of a reasonably price mini-tower a.k.a. headless iMac, using standard components. But apparently they don't want to - though I would tentatively attribute this to a particulary Jobsian form of stubbornness)

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 07:35 PM
"For the last couple of years"?

Why?
What's wrong with it?
21.5" and 27" are great designs that are less than three years old.
People seem to like and buy them.

A speedbump is overdue, though.

(And yes, I still believe Apple could sell lots of a reasonably price mini-tower a.k.a. headless iMac, using standard components. But apparently they don't want to - though I would tentatively attribute this to a particulary Jobsian form of stubbornness)

Pretty sure Ivy Bridge Macbooks & iMacs coming this fall.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 07:41 PM
IOS is anything but stale and support an ever improving stable of apps that are at your finger tips.


It sounds like you have been trained to dwell on the negative and explode out of proportion anything you dislike about a product. IOS is far from stale and is developing into a great tool for people that actually use the iPhone as more than a toy. IOS is in fact one of the only tools that Improves daily.

Sorry to hear that. Again you need to look at the big picture instead of dwelling on the minor things that bother you. IOS 6 is another great leap for developers. As such it means a steady stream of new and improved apps.

WWDC = World Wide Developers Conference. Note that it is a developer conference it isnt a platform to amaze stupid users but rather an event to encourage developer to grab on to the latest features in iOS. As a side note if you don't understand the importance of Apple deploying their own mapping technology then you are totally clueless about iOS.
iOS is far from stale? I don't think many would agree. People b*tched about the 4s looking just like the 4 yet iOS looks almost exactly the same as it did in 2007. And as an end user I just want the best maps possible. I could care less if it comes from Apple or not. And it's laughable to highlight turn by turn navigation as a big deal when Android has had it for years. One could ask why it took Apple so long to get it.

----------

I don't know how you came to that conclusion, maybe you haven't looked at the desktop lineup. Frankly it is pathetic!! Nothing in the way of an iMac, Mini or Mac Pro update, with some of these products being very old in the marketplace. More so many of these products have lost their reason for being due to neglect and not keeping an eye on the ball. The iMac has been a joke for the last couple of years, the Mini is artificially keep down and the Mac Pro is a joke at this point. I'd have to say when looking at the desktop Apple does indeed have hardware issues. Frankly I think I've is part of the problem here and to much form over function happens with respect to the desktop machines.

This is in stark contrast to the laptops. The laptops are much more balanced and actually priced more reasonably than the desktop machines.

As to the OS I really see Mac OS as a string point with Apple though I do wish more effort was put into quality control. Even on my old 2008 MBP it runs fairly decently, certainly far better than Windows would on such a machine. More so Apple has taken a very balanced approach with OS updates, Mac OS is a very strong UNIX platform for gurus and a great GUI for others. It is very much a Ying/Yang OS.
The year isn't over yet. There are rumors of iMac updates. And Mac Pro updates in 2013. Considering the Mac Pro is a small portion of Apple's sales I'm not surprised it gets less attention than other products. As far as form over function on the desktop side, care to share some examples?

Dmunjal
Jul 24, 2012, 08:06 PM
I think the point is that with over $100B in cash, they should be able to do more. Seems like Apple has become conservative with all their success.

marcusj0015
Jul 24, 2012, 08:18 PM
People are making a huge assumption that the iPhone 5 + iPad Mini are going to drive Apple into $13 billion EBITA # again and destroy the competition. Those heady days are over. Between everything that is happening with Samsung & Microsoft, competition is here.

But, will that competition matter to the average consumer? Personally, I wouldn't trust Microsoft near any of my electronics.

osaga
Jul 24, 2012, 08:37 PM
If i were Steve and facing my mortality.

I'd feel a little perturbed that I'd helped create the most revolutionary products in recent history and all anyone does is complain about no new products. Do you expect them to come out with something every week? Take a second and appreciate what they do.

I bet that's why Apple is diverging from naming their products 1,2,3,4... because we're focusing too much on that identifier. It's not about the newest device, but the perfect device. We're just going to get "the new iphone" "the new ipad". Mercedes doesn't name their cars with a number signifying which generation they are, no one does except software companies.

I bet it bothered Job's that people would say they hate apple products because Apple plans obsolescence. Another reason to diverge from naming products with generation numbers.

I bet it bothered Job's that people were so focused on physical updates as well. A lot of thought and energy was spent on the design, and when a design is perfect it should transcend the need for updating. I bet that's why they're not so concerned with making drastic changes. Its better to refine one design over time, than to throw **** at the wall.

Again Mercedes has produced some models for 20 years without physical updates.

Steve J, wasn't trying to appease consumers, and i doubt he gave a **** about the stockholders. He was trying to create perfect products because he knew that if he did that, everything else would take care of itself. I'm sure this isn't lost on Tim Cook.

He's been gone less than a year, the company is making ore money than ever and has the most highly anticipated products in history.... and people saying Apple is dead, that's ridiculous.

Also, Steve never cared about dominating a marketplace, just making the best products. That's why he never licensed proprietary patents, why he never licensed software, why the iphone was only released with AT&T initially and is still not as widely available as all other phones amongst carriers.

If anything Tim Cook is better apt to propel Apple to greater market dominance, and probably why we'll see an ipad mini.

AidenShaw
Jul 24, 2012, 08:49 PM
I think the point is that with over $100B in cash, they should be able to do more. Seems like Apple has become conservative with all their success.

And with computers only being 14% of the revenue - doesn't look like a good time for a pro shop to invest in any more Apple gear.

But we all know that.

zacman
Jul 24, 2012, 08:50 PM
What we really need is for the EU to get its act together. Their ship is sinking fast, and they're bailing with teacups.

The problem for Apple with the European market is that they are going with the iPhone where they are currently with their Mac numbers: into single digits. In key markets like the UK, Germany, Italy, France or Spain Apple has as low as 7% marketshare while Android is going into the 70s to 80s there currently.

And that may be the same with the Asian market very soon. Samsung is all over there and I can't see it stop. Even if you have an iPhone with you people will ask you "Oh, that's the new Samsung Galaxy, right?". Only one year before people asked about the new iPhone instead.

haruhiko
Jul 24, 2012, 08:56 PM
The problem for Apple with the European market is that they are going with the iPhone where they are currently with their Mac numbers: into single digits. In key markets like the UK, Germany, Italy, France or Spain Apple has as low as 7% marketshare while Android is going into the 70s to 80s there currently.

And that may be the same with the Asian market very soon. Samsung is all over there and I can't see it stop. Even if you have an iPhone with you people will ask you "Oh, that's the new Samsung Galaxy, right?". Only one year before people asked about the new iPhone instead.

But the Apple management seemed not to care very much about the accelerating and intensifying competition from Samsung last year. I know they were in a painful and tragic transition, but without any hardware redesign and significant feature upgrade, the 4S will sell well, but won't be as well in the latter part of its life given that Apple usually doesn't update their iPhone hardware in less than a year. It's an easy game for Samsung. You can see they've been releasing a flagship phone right in the middle of the iPhone's cycle since the Galaxy S2. If somebody really needs a new and shiny phone now, what will he or she buy?

I really wish that the upcoming iPhone can really turn things around this time. I am not happy to see Samsung dominating the market. They are infamous for after-sale service.

poloponies
Jul 24, 2012, 08:57 PM
Wish they would do something constructive with all that cash. It's not doing Apple shareholders much good just sitting there collecting bugger all in interest. Use it to make strategic acquisitions that will add to the bottom line and provide Apple users with more products to buy. Either that or give it away to charity.

It's not sitting in piles in a vault a la Scrooge McDuck, it's mostly in long and short term marketable investments, so it's earning money. Only a small portion is held as cash.

AlexJaye
Jul 24, 2012, 09:10 PM
But at this point the company can be on cruise control for awhile. The iPhone and iPad have people so deeply entrenched in the Apple ecosystem they don't seriously consider other options.

Wrong. I know plenty of iPhone users who are seriously considering Android phones. I myself am considering replacing my iPhone 4 with a Galaxy S3, instead of the "new iPhone". But, I'm waiting for the release to officially decide on what I'll do as many iPhone users I know are doing also.

But I have no issue leaving the "apple ecosystem" if they start releasing crappy products whose features have been available on Android for a year.

Rocketman
Jul 24, 2012, 09:19 PM
how the iPhone has penetrated the planetAt least someone has situational awareness.

For the cash whiners, stop thinking of a trip to Victoria's Secret. It is CAPITAL. They leverage it to buy supplier factories, data centers and other investments using it as collateral to prevent ever paying interest or having to issue new stock. What is that little detail worth? Do the math.

Rocketman

Chupa Chupa
Jul 24, 2012, 09:28 PM
If i were Steve and facing my mortality.

I'd feel a little perturbed that I'd helped create the most revolutionary products in recent history and all anyone does is complain about no new products....

Also, Steve never cared about dominating a marketplace, just making the best products.


With due respect, I find it difficult to believe anyone facing their imminent demise is all that concerned something as pedestrian as customers bitching and moaning about material items, even someone as egotistical (deservedly so) as Jobs. Honestly, I don't even think the current Apple brain trust cares b/c they know these types will never be satisfied or understand the work involved to push out good products even at yearly clips.

Steve did care about dominating the marketplace -- he was know to retell how Apple squandered it's computer OS lead to Microsoft by sitting on it's laurels. But what Steve did want to do was dominating the marketplace with quality products, not just the lowest common denominator.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 09:35 PM
Here's something I don't get. Apple often gets knocked for alleged planned obsolescence and the guys at iFixit write letters to Jony Ive lecturing him about how good design is long lasting blah blah blah. Yet at the same time Apple is continuously hammered on when next new product are coming out. And people want this constant stream of new stuff. Its never enough. And if it doesn't look different aesthetically it's boring and not innovative. On another site someone actually said Apple should release a new iPhone every 6 months. And someone else said theyre not upgrading their MBP because the new one looks exactly like the one they have. I mean that's just ridiculous. I get that some companies throw a bunch of stuff against the wall to see what sticks but that's not Apple. I'd rather they be thoughtful about the stuff they release even if it means there's not something new being released all the time.

nylonsteel
Jul 24, 2012, 09:43 PM
re original article

aapl @ $567.80 -33.12 (-5.51%) 8pm pst

just like great armies of past history
I have a reserve army of funds to buy at this buying opportunity
warnings though - aapl may still dip some more over the next months
i'm not too worried
jmho

Rocketman
Jul 24, 2012, 09:46 PM
re original article

aapl @ $567.80 -33.12 (-5.51%) 8pm pst

just like great armies of past history
I have a reserve army of funds to buy at this buying opportunity
warnings though - aapl may still dip some more over the next months
i'm not too worried
jmhoThere's a gap at 445. Recent lows are 550. You're in the buy range. At 450-495 buy on margin.

Dmunjal
Jul 24, 2012, 09:47 PM
Here's something I don't get. Apple often gets knocked for alleged planned obsolescence and the guys at iFixit write letters to Jony Ive lecturing him about how good design is long lasting blah blah blah. Yet at the same time Apple is continuously hammered on when next new product are coming out. And people want this constant stream of new stuff. Its never enough. And if it doesn't look different aesthetically it's boring and not innovative. On another site someone actually said Apple should release a new iPhone every 6 months. And someone else said theyre not upgrading their MBP because the new one looks exactly like the one they have. I mean that's just ridiculous. I get that some companies throw a bunch of stuff against the wall to see what sticks but that's not Apple. I'd rather they be thoughtful about the stuff they release even if it means there's not something new being released all the time.

There is a balance between innovation and sitting on your laurels. Apple seems to be slowing down the innovation cycle in favor of fewer evolutionary updates. Maybe they see this as a way to make the most profit. However, the risk is that they open the door to competitors. I'm sure no one on Infinity Loop is happy about the progress that Android and especially Samsung have had this past year.

They have enough cash to put out two phones a year. To add more features than Android has. This is Apple, they can definitely do it. However, they choose not to. The results of their conservative strategy is starting to show.

cvaldes
Jul 24, 2012, 09:51 PM
But, will that competition matter to the average consumer? Personally, I wouldn't trust Microsoft near any of my electronics.
Hey, Microsoft makes nice keyboards.

:p

phpmaven
Jul 24, 2012, 10:02 PM
When the next-gen iPhone comes along, boy oh boy will those numbers skyrocket come Q4

If it comes out as is rumored with the taller and not wider design, I expect you will see iPhone sales numbers drop even lower in the next quarter. There are so many more excellent choices out there right now than there were a year ago, and with Jellybean out now, iPhone sales are going to continue to slide IMHO. You've also got Windows 8 coming out at the end of the year, and it looks really good as well.

Sure they will still sell millions of them, but I think we will see quite a drop in Apple's slice of the smartphone market, especially if this ridiculously stupid idea of making the iPhone taller and not wider happens. :rolleyes:

The windows 8 tablet/phone/operating system will be an gigantic flop. The tablet is too expensive, looks like a PC product (ridiculous kick-stand, pointless keyboard), and doesn't have nearly the apps. The computer operating system is a major upgrade, but who cares to upgrade their PC OS? Especially if it's a dramatic change. I'm guessing people will prefer to stick with windows 7. Windows based PC sales are declining, Apple is the only computer maker gaining sales in that category.

The android OS is fragmented between all the different makes of phones, and app developers prefer to produce apps for apple because its easier than making them for all the different android versions. Android users don't/cant easily update their OS. Something like 12% of all previous androids are running the latest version, unlike apple with is at 80%. The majority of profits in the app world are from IOS devices, despite that, IOS has just 30% of smartphone share vs. android at 55%. According to a survey, 90% of iphone users will buy another Iphone. That's no the case with any other manufacturer. If any Android user happens to switch to an iphone, there's a 90% chance they'll stay with apple in the future.

Apple Q1 2013 will be astonishing.

The apple dividend is a better return than US treasury bonds, and probably safer. Apple has no debt unlike, and a bunch of cash. The 14 P/E ratio is a value buy, yet they have lots of growth ahead not only abroad but also in the US. They're barely even available on China telecom companies.

Is there any other stock that has as much going for it at such a reasonable price?

The only problems i can see is if the itv is a disaster. Or if the cell phone carriers get together and collectively refuse to pay high iphone subsidies. Neither seem likely.

I'm afraid your living in the past my friend. The surface tablet looks very promising and Windows 8 mobile does as well. By the way, no one knows the price yet the keyboard appears to be great. The only way it will be a flop is if they price themselves out of the market. The Nexus 7 is a big hit and there are some really excellent new phones coming out from Samsung and the rest. Apple will continue to make tons of money, but the other boys have come light years ahead in the last year. Things should be really interesting a year from now. There will all kinds of excellent options for phones and tablets, and I think that's great.

It seems the competition has gotten a lot smarter after getting their collective butts kicked by Apple the last few years.

iapplelove
Jul 24, 2012, 10:27 PM
8.8 billion seems a little low

The company I work for isn't nearly as big as apple and we profit in the billions every year

aristotle
Jul 24, 2012, 10:41 PM
8.8 billion seems a little low

The company I work for isn't nearly as big as apple and we profit in the billions every year
That is 8.8 billion for the last quarter which was spring and early summer. The next quarter with back to school should be very interesting.

iapplelove
Jul 24, 2012, 11:00 PM
That is 8.8 billion for the last quarter which was spring and early summer. The next quarter with back to school should be very interesting.

Yeah for the quarter that's amazing lol ...posting from my phone read it too fast

Ping Guo
Jul 24, 2012, 11:23 PM
It certainly is for me. I’m not smart foolish enough to day trade, but I certainly know a shallow, panic sell-off when I see one.

Fixed it for you. ;)

peterdevries
Jul 25, 2012, 12:09 AM
The problem for Apple with the European market is that they are going with the iPhone where they are currently with their Mac numbers: into single digits. In key markets like the UK, Germany, Italy, France or Spain Apple has as low as 7% marketshare while Android is going into the 70s to 80s there currently.

And that may be the same with the Asian market very soon. Samsung is all over there and I can't see it stop. Even if you have an iPhone with you people will ask you "Oh, that's the new Samsung Galaxy, right?". Only one year before people asked about the new iPhone instead.

Have you been in Europe lately? In each of he countries you mention iPhones are marketed and sold like crazy. Many businesses (e.g. Accenture) are switching to Apple because of high demand by employees or fears about RIM future.

I challenge you to go to a terrace somewhere in Amsterdam and try to spot the table without and iPhone lying on it.

In addition you are comparing iPhone with Android... Different things.

IJ Reilly
Jul 25, 2012, 12:18 AM
The problem for Apple with the European market is that they are going with the iPhone where they are currently with their Mac numbers: into single digits. In key markets like the UK, Germany, Italy, France or Spain Apple has as low as 7% marketshare while Android is going into the 70s to 80s there currently.

The problem with the European markets for Apple and everyone else on the planet is that they are sucking the world economy down the porcelain receptacle.

Oletros
Jul 25, 2012, 12:23 AM
Have you been in Europe lately? In each of he countries you mention iPhones are marketed and sold like crazy. Many businesses (e.g. Accenture) are switching to Apple because of high demand by employees or fears about RIM future.

I challenge you to go to a terrace somewhere in Amsterdam and try to spot the table without and iPhone lying on it.

In addition you are comparing iPhone with Android... Different things.

Have you looked at marketshare in those countries lately?

Mr. Gates
Jul 25, 2012, 01:09 AM
8 Billion

That's a big number.

NET not Gross.


Anyone who says that its less than expected is delusional.

Profit is profit.

While a few are getting stinking rich the rest of the world doesn't have the cash in order to buy these toys in order to meet Apples sales goal.

On top of that , most who wanted an iPad have already got one. No huge compelling features means NO Upgrade ....well, for most rational people.

lukarak
Jul 25, 2012, 01:23 AM
There is no dip in 2011. Q2 2011, Apple sold 18.65 million iPhones (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/20Apple-Reports-Second-Quarter-Results.html) and managed to beat that number with 20.34 million iPhones sold in Q3 (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/19Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html). That's a quarter to quarter increase.

Compare that to this year where Q2 saw sales of 35.1 million iPhones (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/04/24Apple-Reports-Second-Quarter-Results.html) vs this announced quarter's sales of 26.0 million iPhones (http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/07/24Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html)

2011 - Q2 to Q3 saw 8.3% increase in units sales. 2012 - Q2 to Q3 saw 35% decrease in units sales. That's pretty much polar opposites. Of course, Q2 2012 was exceptional and never before seen for Apple, selling 35.1 million iPhones was quite the feat and beating that with a 8-9 months old phone was probably quite impossible.

All their quarterly reports are here for anyone who wants to look up historical numbers. (http://investor.apple.com/results.cfm)

You have to take into account the rollout speed of the product which has increased considerably. Worldwide I mean. Also, the CDMA iPhone 4 came out in February. Plus the white versions which also enticed growth. They came in late April.

You can't just compare numbers without the background

marcusj0015
Jul 25, 2012, 01:24 AM
If it comes out as is rumored with the taller and not wider design, I expect you will see iPhone sales numbers drop even lower in the next quarter. There are so many more excellent choices out there right now than there were a year ago, and with Jellybean out now, iPhone sales are going to continue to slide IMHO. You've also got Windows 8 coming out at the end of the year, and it looks really good as well.

Sure they will still sell millions of them, but I think we will see quite a drop in Apple's slice of the smartphone market, especially if this ridiculously stupid idea of making the iPhone taller and not wider happens. :rolleyes:



I'm afraid your living in the past my friend. The surface tablet looks very promising and Windows 8 mobile does as well. By the way, no one knows the price yet the keyboard appears to be great. The only way it will be a flop is if they price themselves out of the market. The Nexus 7 is a big hit and there are some really excellent new phones coming out from Samsung and the rest. Apple will continue to make tons of money, but the other boys have come light years ahead in the last year. Things should be really interesting a year from now. There will all kinds of excellent options for phones and tablets, and I think that's great.

It seems the competition has gotten a lot smarter after getting their collective butts kicked by Apple the last few years.

Yeah, very promising to land fills.

matrix07
Jul 25, 2012, 01:51 AM
The question is, if Apple was leading the tech sector this past decade (hard to deny imo), who is leading now?

Is it Google? Google certainly is doing more, taking more chances.

Google? The company that scrambled a presentation of 3D map only to be able to claim "I'm the first!"? Is that the way forward thinking company behave? LOL.

dbrewster
Jul 25, 2012, 02:09 AM
Apple earns more than Microsoft & Google combined, & for some reason it still isn't enough.

One word: delusional

matrix07
Jul 25, 2012, 02:13 AM
iOS is stale and Siri just isn't that great.

I agree with this. The future of Apple lies in Siri and iCloud. If Siri works like in the ads then Apple's future is bright. Too bad a year had passed and she didn't advance much. If Siri's doing well people will be much more excited about the new map app.

Rogifan
Jul 25, 2012, 02:27 AM
There is a balance between innovation and sitting on your laurels. Apple seems to be slowing down the innovation cycle in favor of fewer evolutionary updates. Maybe they see this as a way to make the most profit. However, the risk is that they open the door to competitors. I'm sure no one on Infinity Loop is happy about the progress that Android and especially Samsung have had this past year.

They have enough cash to put out two phones a year. To add more features than Android has. This is Apple, they can definitely do it. However, they choose not to. The results of their conservative strategy is starting to show.
Why do we need two phones per year? Just to feed the media (and some fans) constant want for something new?

swagi
Jul 25, 2012, 02:28 AM
Wrong. I know plenty of iPhone users who are seriously considering Android phones. I myself am considering replacing my iPhone 4 with a Galaxy S3, instead of the "new iPhone". But, I'm waiting for the release to officially decide on what I'll do as many iPhone users I know are doing also.

But I have no issue leaving the "apple ecosystem" if they start releasing crappy products whose features have been available on Android for a year.

Honestly - as I was in the same boat as you've been - there is no need to wait for the next gen iPhone. It will receive the same Enyxos chip as the Galaxy S3 if the rumors are true.

If you look at the feature list there is rarely one compelling thing to chose a phone (e.g. if you want the best camera on the market either go exotic with the PureView or go Experia).

I tried to hold out to see what Windows Phone 8 will offer (as I like WP7). Last month I got the SG3. It was a real good buying decision!

Face it - if nothing special happens, iPhone is "just another phone". And there are better ones on the market currently.

Rogifan
Jul 25, 2012, 02:38 AM
I agree with this. The future of Apple lies in Siri and iCloud. If Siri works like in the ads then Apple's future is bright. Too bad a year had passed and she didn't advance much. If Siri's doing well people will be much more excited about the new map app.
I'm still a bit confused why Apple is focusing so much on Siri in their ads when they still claim its beta and quite honestly it doesn't work as well as it should by now. Or doesn't do as much as it could. How many companies heavily advertise beta products?

Ping Guo
Jul 25, 2012, 02:47 AM
8 Billion

That's a big number.

NET not Gross.


Anyone who says that its less than expected is delusional.

Profit is profit.

While a few are getting stinking rich the rest of the world doesn't have the cash in order to buy these toys in order to meet Apples sales goal.

3rd quarter revenue and EPS both below expected. Revenue $35.02B, est. $37.25B. 3Q EPS $9.32, exp. $10.37

Consumers are tapped out. Temp and burger flipping jobs won't pay for $100 cell phone bills and $2000 laptops, and the consumer credit bubble is history.

Markets are completely detached from reality and pumped up by TARPS bailouts and hopium. It's a racket and a farce. HFTs and TBTF banks are running the show manipulating interest rates and precious metals.

bpaluzzi
Jul 25, 2012, 03:17 AM
A excessively thin product line up boxes you in and also leaves you open to loss of sales due to products that better fit user needs.

Wrong.
...where by coincidence they have plenty of models...

Wrong.
but not so well on the desktop.

Wrong.
That is due in no part to the fact that they have the worst hardware lineup in years for desktop machines.
Wrong.

...they need to grab as much of the market as they can.

Wrong.

The number one reason to support 7" tablets is that people like them


Wow. Phenomenal track record there. You should be an analyst, as you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

The problem for Apple with the European market is that they are going with the iPhone where they are currently with their Mac numbers: into single digits. In key markets like the UK, Germany, Italy, France or Spain Apple has as low as 7% marketshare while Android is going into the 70s to 80s there currently.


Not even within an order of magnitude of reality. Any source for your numbers? Because I can find _plenty_ of opposing ones.

PaulChowHK
Jul 25, 2012, 03:34 AM
Wallstreet must being crazy. Apple making so much moneys and still stock go down. I can no believing it

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 04:08 AM
That is 8.8 billion for the last quarter which was spring and early summer. The next quarter with back to school should be very interesting.

The next quarter however will still be riding on the iPhone 4S. That's their biggest revenue generator. We'll have to wait to Q1 2013 for the new iPhone and a quarter with it. With this quarter's QtoQ drop of 35% of units sold, are we heading into another quarter where Apple won't be able to maintain iPhone sales unit growth ?

Their earnings are getting more and more dependant on iPhones, isn't that dangerous for a company ? 1 hot ticket item and if it doesn't sell as well as it should, your numbers aren't quite up to what the market was expecting.

----------

You have to take into account the rollout speed of the product which has increased considerably. Worldwide I mean. Also, the CDMA iPhone 4 came out in February. Plus the white versions which also enticed growth. They came in late April.

You can't just compare numbers without the background

All those points make it even more concerning. Will future years all be like this where they get 2 stellar quarters after an iPhone launch and 2 more tempered quarters near the iPhone refresh ?

Comes back to showing that maybe the iPhone is becoming too important for Apple, and they're losing the diversity in products they had, the balance, when the Mac was more important to their business.

AppliedMicro
Jul 25, 2012, 04:39 AM
Wallstreet must being crazy. Apple making so much moneys and still stock go down. I can no believing it
I'm sure we have had this before in this thread, but come on!
In the short term, all that matters is whether Apple beats people's expectations.

Apple always gives ultra-conservative guidance which they usually are able to beat comfortably. Expectation "on the street", that is analyst's and investor's anticipate Apple's low-balling and expect better numbers than Apple predicts. This is already priced into the stock price.

If Apple fails to meet external (!) expectations the stock will go down.
Simple as that.

Wrong
Great argument!

So what's really great about Apple's desktop hardware lineup?

It's known fact that many Mac Pro users have held off from buying a Mac Pro that hadn't been updated for ages. And many still do, as the recent "update" was a joke. The Mac Pro still uses the same CPU that will soon approach its fourth year on the market, as well as a default GPU that has all but been replaced by newer products in the PC market - it isn't even sold anymore for PCs. And their other desktop lines haven't seen an update in more than a year - that is a long time!

So the notion of a "worst hardware lineup in years for desktop machines" is certainly not far.fetched..

Wow. Phenomenal track record there. You should be an analyst, as you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Again: Great argumentation!

With this quarter's QtoQ drop of 35% of units sold, are we heading into another quarter where Apple won't be able to maintain iPhone sales unit growth ?
Of course. With anticipation for the iPhone 5 (or whatever it's going to be called) people will hold off from buying the 4S - especially as Apple doesn't seem to be willing to reduce the latter's price.

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 05:11 AM
Of course. With anticipation for the iPhone 5 (or whatever it's going to be called) people will hold off from buying the 4S - especially as Apple doesn't seem to be willing to reduce the latter's price.

Considering the iPhone's importance to their revenues, that is not a good position for Apple. But what is even more concerning is that they did manage to hold up iPhone 4 sales in 2011 even with the anticipation being there for the "iPhone 5" (the iPhone 4S as shipped and marketed). This year seems different (of course, they did sell a lot more units than they ever did in Q2. Maybe that was the anamolie, not what we're seeing here. Q3 2011 to Q3 2012 was still a 20m to 26m growth).

lukarak
Jul 25, 2012, 06:06 AM
Considering the iPhone's importance to their revenues, that is not a good position for Apple. But what is even more concerning is that they did manage to hold up iPhone 4 sales in 2011 even with the anticipation being there for the "iPhone 5" (the iPhone 4S as shipped and marketed). This year seems different (of course, they did sell a lot more units than they ever did in Q2. Maybe that was the anamolie, not what we're seeing here. Q3 2011 to Q3 2012 was still a 20m to 26m growth).

CDMA iPhone 4, white iPhone 4, and slower rollout throughout the world are the reason for a more polished sales curve in 2011. I already explained that, and you replied to that post, i thought you got that.

As for your other post, the iPad is there for the second two quarters of their FY

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 06:53 AM
CDMA iPhone 4, white iPhone 4, and slower rollout throughout the world are the reason for a more polished sales curve in 2011. I already explained that, and you replied to that post, i thought you got that.

I got all of that, the fact remains that the 2011 strategy was quite healthier. Also, note that the CDMA iPhone 4 did poorly on launch and I doubt the white iPhone 4 sales really boosted it that much to go from a 35% (2012 numbers) dip to a 8.3% (2011) increase.

I think one of the major factors was the late fall release of the iPhone 4S. This created a sort of bubble and Q2 2012 is the anomalie as far as unit sales went (too many units got sold there). Q3 brought things back to their normal levels.

As for your other post, the iPad is there for the second two quarters of their FY

That didn't help them here apparently. The iPad is not as important as the iPhone in their product share pie chart.

There's tons of way to spin this, but the point remains, Apple barely beat their usual very conservative guidance and the markets didn't like this. I'd reevaluate what needs to be done to keep a better sales curve throughout the year to prevent that if I were Apple and that is probably what they are doing.

boronathan
Jul 25, 2012, 07:17 AM
Is everyone aware this is 8.8B profit for one quarter, a quarter featuring an 8 month old iPhone. Sure they missed Street expectations but come on lol!

I think apple may be the only company in the world that can post a multi billion dollar profit in one quarter and still have people wondering about their future.

I for one am happy and the stock will obviously rebound as it always has. I hate and love wall street at the same time :p

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 07:46 AM
Is everyone aware this is 8.8B profit for one quarter, a quarter featuring an 8 month old iPhone. Sure they missed Street expectations but come on lol!

Everyone is aware. The problem is we're in an economy based on constant growth and the bigger you are, the more maintaining growth is hard. Apple just had a quarter when they showed some "growing" pains. This is the reality the markets are reacting to, not that 8.8B profit isn't good (it frankly is an amazing amount of profit).

alent1234
Jul 25, 2012, 07:55 AM
Is everyone aware this is 8.8B profit for one quarter, a quarter featuring an 8 month old iPhone. Sure they missed Street expectations but come on lol!

I think apple may be the only company in the world that can post a multi billion dollar profit in one quarter and still have people wondering about their future.

I for one am happy and the stock will obviously rebound as it always has. I hate and love wall street at the same time :p


growth is slowing. last year apple was growing at 80%, now it's 20%. everyone on wall street knew it which is why the PE has been so low. i used to get access to full analyst reports and they go 2 years out on predictions. apple stock now is priced for 2013 growth at the minimum and most likely 2014. and every year there is less and less new smart phone customers.

look at M$. last 12 years they grew revenue and profits very nicely but the stock has gone no where. that's apple for the next decade

smart phones are at 50% penetration in developed countries, at least in the USA. there are less potential new customers here than there were a few years ago. most of the people that are left don't have any interest in paying $199 for a phone or $30 a month for a data plan.

for current owners they will upgrade only when their contract is due. my wife's iphone 4 contract is up next month and she's been eligible for months but no point going to a 4S now. and we're going prepaid so she will probably keep her phone at least another year.

there is very little difference every year and even then its cheaper to buy an app than a new phone for new functionality. and with software support going 3 generations back there is very little point in buying the latest and greatest right away

europe is about to go bankrupt. no one is going to be buying $650 plus 20% VAT plus included warranty phones

boronathan
Jul 25, 2012, 08:17 AM
growth is slowing. last year apple was growing at 80%, now it's 20%. everyone on wall street knew it which is why the PE has been so low. i used to get access to full analyst reports and they go 2 years out on predictions. apple stock now is priced for 2013 growth at the minimum and most likely 2014. and every year there is less and less new smart phone customers.

look at M$. last 12 years they grew revenue and profits very nicely but the stock has gone no where. that's apple for the next decade

smart phones are at 50% penetration in developed countries, at least in the USA. there are less potential new customers here than there were a few years ago. most of the people that are left don't have any interest in paying $199 for a phone or $30 a month for a data plan.

for current owners they will upgrade only when their contract is due. my wife's iphone 4 contract is up next month and she's been eligible for months but no point going to a 4S now. and we're going prepaid so she will probably keep her phone at least another year.

there is very little difference every year and even then its cheaper to buy an app than a new phone for new functionality. and with software support going 3 generations back there is very little point in buying the latest and greatest right away

europe is about to go bankrupt. no one is going to be buying $650 plus 20% VAT plus included warranty phones

Valid points from you and knightwrx. My whole thing is, I'm attributing this slow growth to the "old" 4s. Wall Street had bullish expectations which weren't met but if you examine why they weren't met you may find its not as bad as you think.

IPhone grew 20% year over year when the latest iteration is eight months old. There are undoubtedly ppl waiting on the next one.

Apple will be late to the LTE party but when the LTE iPhone is released and if it has a bigger screen (though not a requirement for success) it will easily destroy any previous record.

If I ran a company that experienced 20% growth with an old device and still made billions in profit I wouldn't get caught up in the wall street crap. I own aapl stock and this will NOT be the reason I start selling off. AAPL will be at 900+ if not more by next year.

Incidentally when apple sold 40 million 4s's at launch ppl said it was no surprise and still gave them no credit lol. Now when they're still selling 26million eight months later ppl say they're declining. Go figure :)

pauliaK
Jul 25, 2012, 08:17 AM
So it only takes Apple three months to make 8.8 billion dollars in PROFIT! That's ~3 billion a month on average, or ~100,000,000 every ten days or ~10 million dollars every single day or ~420,000$ every single hour or 7,000$ every single minute or ~116$ in PROFITS for every single second of the past quarter. Holy crap! :eek:

ristlin
Jul 25, 2012, 08:26 AM
So it only takes Apple three months to make 8.8 billion dollars in PROFIT! That's ~3 billion a month on average, or ~100,000,000 every ten days or ~10 million dollars every single day or ~420,000$ every single hour or 7,000$ every single minute or ~116$ in PROFITS for every single second of the past quarter. Holy crap! :eek:

In EVE Online most people have a side profession to "print" money. Apple literally prints it.

alent1234
Jul 25, 2012, 08:29 AM
Valid points from you and knightwrx. My whole thing is, I'm attributing this slow growth to the "old" 4s. Wall Street had bullish expectations which weren't met but if you examine why they weren't met you may find its not as bad as you think.

IPhone grew 20% year over year when the latest iteration is eight months old. There are undoubtedly ppl waiting on the next one.

Apple will be late to the LTE party but when the LTE iPhone is released and if it has a bigger screen (though not a requirement for success) it will easily destroy any previous record.

If I ran a company that experienced 20% growth with an old device and still made billions in profit I wouldn't get caught up in the wall street crap. I own aapl stock and this will NOT be the reason I start selling off. AAPL will be at 900+ if not more by next year.

Incidentally when apple sold 40 million 4s's at launch ppl said it was no surprise and still gave them no credit lol. Now when they're still selling 26million eight months later ppl say they're declining. Go figure :)

except for china most iphone customers already own an iphone and aren't going to switch until their contract is up or they decide to pony up $650 and up.

the people who don't have a smart phone like my mom and in laws don't care, don't want to pay $30 a month data, don't want to pay the $199 price, or don't have the money. choose any of the above. its like when cell phone penetration reached 50% a decade ago, the carrier stocks tumbled.

at this point there is less new customers and you have to fight for the customers of your competition. this means more advertising and specials. in wall street speak it's gross margin and profit growth compression. the Galaxy S3 is selling and carriers are tired of paying apple's high subsidies. and they have a competing product they can offer