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MacRumors
Jul 24, 2012, 05:14 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/24/apple-on-fall-transition-apple-tv-impact-of-rumors-and-more/)


http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/07/2q12_revenue-150x145.jpg (http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/07/2q12_revenue.jpg)Apple held its Q3 2012 financial results conference call this evening. We have posted a full transcript (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/24/apple-reports-results-for-q3-2012-8-8-billion-profit-on-35-billion-in-revenue/) of the call.

From the call, Apple discusses their expectations for the next quarter which runs through July, August and September. In particular, Apple CFO Peter Oppenheimer expects gross margins to decline in the next quarter due to a "Fall transition". He was unwilling to provide more details on direct questioning:A: "Fall transition" that I spoke about is driving most of the decline that we see sequentially in gross margin. Not something that we're going to talk about in any level of detail today. We could not be more confident in our new product pipeline. Apple uses such terms as "Fall transition" to represent changes to their product lines. Lower expected gross margins could point to new products with lower prices. The obvious speculation would point to the much rumored smaller/cheaper 7.85" iPad. Whatever the "fall transition" is, Apple expects it to take place before the end of September in order for it to impact the next quarter.

Apple was also asked about the impact of rumors and speculation on their sales
Q: Rumor and speculation, how much does it hurt sales in the quarter?

A: There's a lot of speculation out there. It's difficult to sort out but I'm fairly convinced that there's an incredible anticipation out there for future products. As you would expect given what we've been able to deliver in the past. I think it's a reasonable amount. And later...Try very hard to keep our product roadmap secret and confidential. We go to extremes to do that. That, however, doesn't stop people from speculating or wondering and they'll never do that. The great thing about this country is that people can say what they think and so-forth. I'm not going to spend any energy trying to change that. I'm glad that people want the next thing. I'm super happy about it. There are obviously quite a few that want what we're doing now as well. I'm not going to put any energy into trying to get people to stop speculating. I don't think it would amount to anything.Finally, Apple is still optimistic about the Apple TV, and continues to believe in it despite it being a comparably smaller market.Q: Did you give an Apple TV number and updated thoughts?

A: Sold 1.3 million last quarter, up more than 170% year over year. Brings fiscal year to 4 million units. This is pretty incredible. Still at a level that we would call a "hobby" -- continue to pull the string to see where it takes us. Not one to keep around projects that we don't believe in. Lot of people here that believe in Apple TV. Continue to invest.

Q: Don't do hobbies to be hobbies -- do it to make something bigger?

A: We do it because we think it'll lead us somewhere. We'll see. 4 million isn't a small number and there are a lot of believers in it. We have a full transcript (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/24/apple-reports-results-for-q3-2012-8-8-billion-profit-on-35-billion-in-revenue/) available from the call.

Article Link: Apple on 'Fall Transition', Apple TV, Impact of Rumors and More (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/24/apple-on-fall-transition-apple-tv-impact-of-rumors-and-more/)



MultiMediaWill
Jul 24, 2012, 05:16 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

Macboy Pro
Jul 24, 2012, 05:16 PM
new iMacs?

cgk.emu
Jul 24, 2012, 05:16 PM
Well, there ya go folks who are freaking out waiting for new stuff :)

flash84x
Jul 24, 2012, 05:21 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

</sarcasm> :confused:

Steve J0bs
Jul 24, 2012, 05:23 PM
Why do i keep thinking they are gonna get rid of the iPod touch and replace it with a smaller iPad? Then they will enlarge the iPod nano to replace the touch.

matter of fact that sounds confusing... or does it?

FloatingBones
Jul 24, 2012, 05:24 PM
TC should stop beating around the bush and just call it:

The MR Effect

djrod
Jul 24, 2012, 05:25 PM
new iMacs?

New iPods and iPhone, that's for sure.

iMac, Minis or Mac Pro? We'll see

atysklind
Jul 24, 2012, 05:25 PM
iLove my ATV

iamkarlp
Jul 24, 2012, 05:26 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

..... So unload your stock so that we can buy it.......

Apple is a Cyclical company with relatively predictable product pipelines.

Apple really needs to be judged in a YoY capacity.

They are doing just fine. If we see similar numbers for the next two quarters (Depends on exact iPhone and iMac refresh periods) then we have a real issue.

At the moment it's no different than any other quarter. Apple releases numbers (beating their own guidance by some amount) and then the stock goes down to recover over the next few weeks.

While it's true they didn't beat their own numbers by the same ratio as they have in other times, that could be any number of legitimate reasons, the simplest of which is that Tim Cook may be trying to give more accurate guidance.

At the end of the day, the official guidance was well exceeded, they have strong YoY growth and as a company their image is only improving.

Cracking success I would say.

Big-TDI-Guy
Jul 24, 2012, 05:26 PM
Ok - so there's no downvote button (for now) - so I'll say it out loud. (And still be bludgeoned for it)

For the first time in a long time - I'm not remotely excited about what Apple has in store for the remainder of this year. Something isn't there - that once was...

I know, I'm a horrible person. :(

adildacoolset
Jul 24, 2012, 05:28 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

Watch out we've got a troll over here. Just trying to be funny, eh?

BigJohno
Jul 24, 2012, 05:29 PM
I want a 27-30" matte screen and mac pro!!!! Enough of this ipod iphone ipad crap!

LordVic
Jul 24, 2012, 05:29 PM
..... So unload your stock so that we can buy it.......

Apple is a Cyclical company with relatively predictable product pipelines.

Apple really needs to be judged in a YoY capacity.

They are doing just fine. If we see similar numbers for the next two quarters (Depends on exact iPhone and iMac refresh periods) then we have a real issue.

At the moment it's no different than any other quarter. Apple releases numbers (beating their own guidance by some amount) and then the stock goes down to recover over the next few weeks.

While it's true they didn't beat their own numbers by the same ratio as they have in other times, that could be any number of legitimate reasons, the simplest of which is that Tim Cook may be trying to give more accurate guidance.

At the end of the day, the official guidance was well exceeded, they have strong YoY growth and as a company their image is only improving.

Cracking success I would say.

for the most part agreed. this shouldn't be an indication that apple is suddenly going to go bankrupt and lose money.

But if you look at the big picture. The lack of anything truly new this year (all revisions to existing products), plus pissing off a lot of people with the non stop litigations in attempt to limit competition, one can't help but speculate that something isn't entirely right.

Nothing i'd freak out over though. in the current product segments I think we have just finally hit saturation point. it's future new products that will be Telling. The last 2 years or so has seen the world of mobile communications explode more than we've ever seen in the past. hence record profits year after year. At some point, there's just not enough new people to sell too.

the big tell will be in 6mo to a year. if Apple doesn't come out with something to spur on new markets and continue to slide, Then you might be afraid. (but i'm convinced the time of record profits for everyone is behind us)

koruki
Jul 24, 2012, 05:29 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

I checked the dictionary for the word fail, and making over $8b profit didn't show up :rolleyes:

rediffusion
Jul 24, 2012, 05:31 PM
A: We do it because we think it'll leave us somewhere.

Are you sure that wasn't "lead us somewhere"? Makes more sense.

nuckinfutz
Jul 24, 2012, 05:31 PM
Apple is Doomed™


Great news on the Apple TV. The more that becomes a viable resource the better.

Open it up to developers Apple. They'll take that platform to new heights.

1goodidea
Jul 24, 2012, 05:32 PM
If you're still in college; I'd suggest an elective in Business Financial Studies. If you're out of college, I'd suggest a workshop at your local Fidelity or Charles Schwab satellite branch.

If none of the above apply. I'd suggest shutting up.

For all your smarts I think you need a social intelligence refresher.

Flood123
Jul 24, 2012, 05:34 PM
I know a lot will think this is stupid. Heck even I think it sounds far fetched, but does anyone else get the feeling that they might merge product lines here? The products I am talking about are the mythical iPanel and the iMac. I know it's far fetched, but i can't shake the feeling that this might be the case. Has there been any speculation regarding this so called iPanel and its possible release. If so, does that time frame match up with what some have been recently speculating about the iMac(meaning september or october release)?

iamkarlp
Jul 24, 2012, 05:34 PM
Ok - so there's no downvote button (for now) - so I'll say it out loud. (And still be bludgeoned for it)

For the first time in a long time - I'm not remotely excited about what Apple has in store for the remainder of this year. Something isn't there - that once was...

I know, I'm a horrible person. :(

New OSX and iPhones for certain, and more than likely iPods, with a strong potential of iMacs later in the year?

The only thing that likely won't be touched this year is MacPro's, and that's only because, good, bad, or indifferent; sometime in the next 18 months we are most likely going to see an entirely new workstation paradigm from Apple.

If your not excited by Apples H2, that's perfectly fine, and certainly understandable, but more than likely that is because you aren't in a position to need one of their products at this moment, as opposed to Apple not having anything interesting.

There is a difference,

Karl P

DrumApple
Jul 24, 2012, 05:37 PM
Why don't they just try being open and do away with their era of secretive tactics. It's so stupid, it gets leaked no matter what so you might as well just announce what your planning yourself rather than having everyone hear it from your manufacturers in Asia. It would probably help their bottom line in the long run.

Technarchy
Jul 24, 2012, 05:37 PM
I really like my Apple TV.

Hopefully Apple continues to progress the platform.

Kwill
Jul 24, 2012, 05:40 PM
Apple uses such terms as "Fall transition" to represent changes to their product lines.

This confirms it: Smaller dock connector on larger, faster 4G iPhone with Siri's brother "Ous" in more countries. Thanks Cook. :rolleyes:

Stephen123
Jul 24, 2012, 05:43 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

Apple, the worlds most valued company, grew 23% over one year, beating their own quarterly predication. That is only disappointing in a VERY specialized sense of the word.

Mr Fusion
Jul 24, 2012, 05:47 PM
Ok - so there's no downvote button (for now) - so I'll say it out loud. (And still be bludgeoned for it)

For the first time in a long time - I'm not remotely excited about what Apple has in store for the remainder of this year. Something isn't there - that once was...

I know, I'm a horrible person. :(
Nope, you're just realistic. ;)

The big question I have now for Apple and the rest of the tech industry is: Where do we go from here? The "computer" has evolved from a room of vacuum tubes to a desktop to a laptop to a portable screen of varying sizes. What's the next step?

Ratmandu82
Jul 24, 2012, 05:48 PM
Open up the AppleTv for app development and they'll fly of the shelves. Or not and only sell a few million. Your choice.

Dazza7111
Jul 24, 2012, 05:48 PM
iLove my ATV

But it could be soooo much better!!! Eg Web browser, more tv channels! And maybe Apps???

Glassed Silver
Jul 24, 2012, 05:53 PM
Q: Don't do hobbies to be hobbies -- do it to make something bigger?

A: We do it because we think it'll lead us somewhere. We'll see. 4 million isn't a small number and there are a lot of believers in it.

That guy is hilarious! :D

Spill it already! :p

Glassed Silver:mac

sevoneone
Jul 24, 2012, 05:57 PM
I know a lot will think this is stupid. Heck even I think it sounds far fetched, but does anyone else get the feeling that they might merge product lines here? The products I am talking about are the mythical iPanel and the iMac. I know it's far fetched, but i can't shake the feeling that this might be the case. Has there been any speculation regarding this so called iPanel and its possible release. If so, does that time frame match up with what some have been recently speculating about the iMac(meaning september or october release)?

I think you could be on to something. OS X and iOS are slowly converging and I think Apple is slowly moving away from the Mac as a product targeted towards the mainstream. The iPhone proved the technology, the iPad proved people would use a device that is more consumer electronic than computer in their day to day lives, and I think TV is the figuring out part of the UI piece of the puzzle of getting a very functional Apple device hung on our living room walls. That is not saying the Mac is going anywhere any time soon, I think the demand for a traditional desktop/laptop computer won't be gone for awhile, but I can see this being Apple's transition... Pulling the average home consumer away from a computer and to multiple devices that work together.

xVeinx
Jul 24, 2012, 05:59 PM
I want a 27-30" matte screen and mac pro!!!! Enough of this ipod iphone ipad crap!

Vote for me, and all your wildest dreams will come true.

Bevz
Jul 24, 2012, 06:04 PM
More love for ATV here... Developer SDK next please... Please! ;)

gnasher729
Jul 24, 2012, 06:09 PM
Why do i keep thinking they are gonna get rid of the iPod touch and replace it with a smaller iPad?

Because you are not Steve Jobs?

----------

I think you could be on to something. OS X and iOS are slowly converging and I think Apple is slowly moving away from the Mac as a product targeted towards the mainstream.

Actually, to any software developer it is quite obvious that there is no convergence at all where it counts to end users, and that is in the user interface. Technologies are converging, which is beneficial to all the developers, but not the UI.

On the other hand, it seems that Microsoft got it just as wrong as you did when they start their copiers and produced Windows 8 - perfect convergence between desktop and tablet with the result that you can't use it on either :D


I really like my Apple TV.

Hopefully Apple continues to progress the platform.

For some perspective, the Apple TV revenue is about 60 percent more than TiVo revenue in their best year. For some other perspective, it is about 40 percent of the total revenue of Humax, and 20 percent of Pace. And that's hardware only, not counting any revenue from movie sales and rentals.


Apple really needs to be judged in a YoY capacity.


Even that can be misleading. Apple released new Macs in Feb. 2011 and sold masses of them through April-June 2011. This year, sales had actually dropped down before WWDC and there was very limited time left in the quarter to sell Retina MBPs. After all, we are almost four weeks into the next quarter and only now is it that supply starts getting close to demand.

Apple Corps
Jul 24, 2012, 06:11 PM
"...For the first time in a long time - I'm not remotely excited about what Apple has in store for the remainder of this year. Something isn't there - that once was... . :(


I have some of that same feeling. Listening to the conference call I was concerned about how "talking head corporate" it was sounding. Blabbing on about how some school district in the mid-west was using iPads and some company used the iPad to streamline their processes - Duuuuh !!!

Boring, bland and uninspiring. A lot of continued talk about that "pipeline" - we need to see it this fall. I miss seeing and listening to Steve.

My belief is that Apple will report some HUGE numbers around January 23 or so. Tough sledding for the next few months though...

BTW - buying opportunity :-)

avanpelt
Jul 24, 2012, 06:11 PM
The fact that the iPhone and iPad together accounted for nearly 75% of sales is pretty amazing, I think.

sevoneone
Jul 24, 2012, 06:12 PM
Nope, you're just realistic. ;)

The big question I have now for Apple and the rest of the tech industry is: Where do we go from here? The "computer" has evolved from a room of vacuum tubes to a desktop to a laptop to a portable screen of varying sizes. What's the next step?

That is the interesting question isn't it? It seems like for the first time that all the big advancements and progressions are being driven from the consumer side. For nearly all of tech history, and certainly the history of personal computers, the big advancements came from the high-end profesional markets and trickled down into the consumers hands once the tech became affordable. Now, lots of advancements are going the opposite way. What was pioneered in smart phones has tricked up to tablets, and now what is working with those technologies is trickling up to the personal computer. It is going to be really exciting to see how it all shakes out.

Godzilla71
Jul 24, 2012, 06:17 PM
But it could be soooo much better!!! Eg Web browser, more tv channels! And maybe Apps???
Agreed. I also love my atv but would love to see some more content. Who knows Tim Cook did have some meetings set up a while ago with some media execs didn't he?

Icaras
Jul 24, 2012, 06:18 PM
Why don't they just try being open and do away with their era of secretive tactics. It's so stupid, it gets leaked no matter what so you might as well just announce what your planning yourself rather than having everyone hear it from your manufacturers in Asia. It would probably help their bottom line in the long run.

So stupid in fact, that Apple is now the richest, top grossing company in the world.

gnasher729
Jul 24, 2012, 06:20 PM
Oh no.. could it be that consumers other than the iLemmings have seen the light re Big Brother...
New iPhone will have the battery glued to the motherboard... the iSheep will come in droves to buy it....

Oh, you are so funny. Using three iWords in such a short post: iLemmings, iPhone, and iSheep. I am truly in awe of you.

nuckinfutz
Jul 24, 2012, 06:21 PM
Oh no.. could it be that consumers other than the iLemmings have seen the light re Big Brother...
New iPhone will have the battery glued to the motherboard... the iSheep will come in droves to buy it....

iLemmings and iSheep are my favorite animals. Their known to be very perceptive and they tend to avoid taking long and winding paths to the reach the same place.

I guess you could call them ...efficient.

:p

Radio
Jul 24, 2012, 06:23 PM
still no headline that Apple Sales and Profit missed Analysts' Expectations.

what is this?! macrumors in cahoots with apple?!?!?

Eidorian
Jul 24, 2012, 06:23 PM
Come on Fall notebook update and refurbished MacBook Pros!

illegalprelude
Jul 24, 2012, 06:27 PM
Apple, the worlds most valued company, grew 23% over one year, beating their own quarterly predication. That is only disappointing in a VERY specialized sense of the word.

It blows my mind that in middle of all these othe electronic companies losing money hand over fist and the poor world economy, Apple beats its last year sales and people are disappointed...What?

flux73
Jul 24, 2012, 06:29 PM
I think you could be on to something. OS X and iOS are slowly converging and I think Apple is slowly moving away from the Mac as a product targeted towards the mainstream. The iPhone proved the technology, the iPad proved people would use a device that is more consumer electronic than computer in their day to day lives, and I think TV is the figuring out part of the UI piece of the puzzle of getting a very functional Apple device hung on our living room walls. That is not saying the Mac is going anywhere any time soon, I think the demand for a traditional desktop/laptop computer won't be gone for awhile, but I can see this being Apple's transition... Pulling the average home consumer away from a computer and to multiple devices that work together.
Flood123 deleted his post, but I don't think it's far-fetched or ridiculous at all either. A couple of years ago I read an article on one of the tech websites that predicted a "three-screen" strategy, and it makes too much sense to ignore. The theory is that Apple is moving towards a convergence of hardware (and software to a degree) platforms so that ideally, a consumer would own a large screen (iTV), medium screen (iPad) and a small screen (iPhone). All would provide access to the same content, thus allowing you to consume or utilize the content anywhere you were with obvious tradeoffs of portability vs screen size. Most techies blow this off because they think it's ridiculous that they would get rid of Mac. I don't think Apple necessarily plans to get rid of the Mac, just that it would be marginalized. Most tech geeks just don't realize how much in the minority we are.

I think Steve probably realized awhile back that most people don't use the applications that us tech geeks "need" a computer for - website programming, photoshop, design work, etc. iOS is designed to optimize content consumption, rather than creation. Content creation is only utilized by a small percentage of the population. Thus, as more and more people get an iPad, they'll completely forego getting a PC or Mac. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see Apple release a hybrid iPad/iMac - an iPad with a 20" screen that you use on a desktop. It could serve as a fourth device for those who want something on their desktop that has more screen real estate than their iPad.

I know a lot of people will disagree with the above sentiment, but I've observed this recently with my own parents whom I gave my old Macbook Pro to, a couple of years ago. When I recently convinced them to get an iPad, they really liked it (OS X still confuses them), and have started using the Macbook less and less in spite of the smaller screen size.

Technarchy
Jul 24, 2012, 06:32 PM
It blows my mind that in middle of all these othe electronic companies losing money hand over fist and the poor world economy, Apple beats its last year sales and people are disappointed...What?

For guys in their 30's and 40's it is even more amazing when you know where Apple came from, and remember how far they had fallen in the mid-1990's.

nuckinfutz
Jul 24, 2012, 06:34 PM
[QUOTE=flux73;15316010)


I know a lot of people will disagree with the above sentiment, but I've observed this recently with my own parents whom I gave my old Macbook Pro to, a couple of years ago. When I recently convinced them to get an iPad, they really liked it (OS X still confuses them), and have started using the Macbook less and less in spite of the smaller screen size.[/QUOTE]

I think that people are finally getting what Steve has been saying.

1. Get rid of the filesystem and you'll have more people "get it"
2. Get rid of multiple windowed environments and that too eases things

That being said I do not see iOS and OS X merging at anything other than the layers below the initial UI and GUI. There's really no need to merge them.

zzLZHzz
Jul 24, 2012, 06:38 PM
only the new ipad is driving the sale for this quarter.

many were waiting for macbook refresh. in fact with the on-going rumors, many are still waiting for a 13" rMBP.

and with the rumor of mini iPad, the ipad sale take a hit too.

and since the next iphone is predicted to be around oct, iphone sale are also affected.

i believe next quarter could do better since it will take into consideration of the gain in refreshed macbook including rMBP.

SteveW928
Jul 24, 2012, 06:40 PM
Hmm, I'm starting to worry a bit about Cook. He seems to be depending more on spreadsheets than a good understanding of the industry. Apple TV a hobby? Not enough numbers units moved? How about the fact that Apple TV is being used for AirPlay to support all kinds of uses (from iPads and iPhones, and soon from OSX boxes). He can't seriously believe that at this point it is only a hobby in the living room type device, can he?

Then, I add in killing off products like the xServe and dumbing down the more recent versions of OSX server (removing critical features). Continual dumbing down various other software products. Overly focusing on consumer lines of products and design AT THE EXPENSE OF products which might be contributing to the consumer success, or be able to benefit from the consumer success.

I've been an Apple advocate for an awfully long time, but I'm starting to see little signs of 'business types' type moves reminiscent of Apple's dark days when the 'industry experts' were running the company rather than people who really understood the market and had vision. I hope I'm wrong.

gnasher729
Jul 24, 2012, 06:41 PM
It blows my mind that in middle of all these othe electronic companies losing money hand over fist and the poor world economy, Apple beats its last year sales and people are disappointed...What?

Nobody is disappointed.

There are those who are quite Ok with Apple's results.
And there are those who are jealous and claim to be disappointed.

21 million iPads and Macs makes Apple the #1 computer maker this quarter. Why would anybody be disappointed?

sevoneone
Jul 24, 2012, 06:41 PM
Actually, to any software developer it is quite obvious that there is no convergence at all where it counts to end users, and that is in the user interface. Technologies are converging, which is beneficial to all the developers, but not the UI.

On the other hand, it seems that Microsoft got it just as wrong as you did when they start their copiers and produced Windows 8 - perfect convergence between desktop and tablet with the result that you can't use it on either :D


I would totally agree with you that Microsoft got it very wrong. I don't think you can converge a UI between devices that are so fundamentally different, and you shouldn't try. Metro makes zero sense to me on a traditional desktop, and the Launchpad Apple added in Lion still baffles me.

Consumers expect to interact differently with different devices. No one expects to operate a bicycle the same way as a car. A motorcycle is might be similar, but it is still completely different. So, why would any company expect anyone to want to interact the same way with their wall mounted device vs. their laptop vs. their smart phone? Why can't Apple, Microsoft, or even Google have a single platform that supports multiple UIs?

Like you said, the underlying tech is converging, which is good for developers. So just make it super simple for a developer to bundle multiple UIs in their App. Apple is already doing it with iPad/iPhone, though they are very similar UIs, just take it the extra step. One app, multiple ways to interact with it, or even better, one app that can make use of all those different UIs simultaneously in one awesome user experience. That is the future.

zzLZHzz
Jul 24, 2012, 06:42 PM
Hmm, I'm starting to worry a bit about Cook. He seems to be depending more on spreadsheets than a good understanding of the industry. Apple TV a hobby? Not enough numbers units moved? How about the fact that Apple TV is being used for AirPlay to support all kinds of uses (from iPads and iPhones, and soon from OSX boxes). He can't seriously believe that at this point it is only a hobby in the living room type device, can he?


he obviously can't say that a new apple tv is in the work. that against the secrecy that they have. but i am sure something working out in the lab.

Slivortal
Jul 24, 2012, 06:46 PM
That is the interesting question isn't it? It seems like for the first time that all the big advancements and progressions are being driven from the consumer side. For nearly all of tech history, and certainly the history of personal computers, the big advancements came from the high-end profesional markets and trickled down into the consumers hands once the tech became affordable. Now, lots of advancements are going the opposite way. What was pioneered in smart phones has tricked up to tablets, and now what is working with those technologies is trickling up to the personal computer. It is going to be really exciting to see how it all shakes out.

It's actually more disappointing than exciting. The reason that all the changes are coming from the consumer end is because professional markets are no longer coming up with good ideas. CPUs have pretty much reached a standstill until a material switch from silicone (which dooms legacy equipment), software speeds have pretty much reached a standstill until an architecture change from ARM/x86 (which also dooms legacy equipment).

There's just so much legacy equipment in place that the big change is never going to happen.

So what's happening now is that consumers are starting to focus more on consumption-end changes, which makes

Flood123 deleted his post, but I don't think it's far-fetched or ridiculous at all either. A couple of years ago I read an article on one of the tech websites that predicted a "three-screen" strategy, and it makes too much sense to ignore. The theory is that Apple is moving towards a convergence of hardware (and software to a degree) platforms so that ideally, a consumer would own a large screen (iTV), medium screen (iPad) and a small screen (iPhone). All would provide access to the same content, thus allowing you to consume or utilize the content anywhere you were with obvious tradeoffs of portability vs screen size. Most techies blow this off because they think it's ridiculous that they would get rid of Mac. I don't think Apple necessarily plans to get rid of the Mac, just that it would be marginalized. Most tech geeks just don't realize how much in the minority we are.

I think Steve probably realized awhile back that most people don't use the applications that us tech geeks "need" a computer for - website programming, photoshop, design work, etc. iOS is designed to optimize content consumption, rather than creation. Content creation is only utilized by a small percentage of the population. Thus, as more and more people get an iPad, they'll completely forego getting a PC or Mac. I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see Apple release a hybrid iPad/iMac - an iPad with a 20" screen that you use on a desktop. It could serve as a fourth device for those who want something on their desktop that has more screen real estate than their iPad.

I know a lot of people will disagree with the above sentiment, but I've observed this recently with my own parents whom I gave my old Macbook Pro to, a couple of years ago. When I recently convinced them to get an iPad, they really liked it (OS X still confuses them), and have started using the Macbook less and less in spite of the smaller screen size.

Website programming, photoshop, and design work are nothing - what about computer research? You know, us guys who are plugging away at the Terminal and filesystem, interacting with the kernel 8 hours a day? Puts the rest of you to shame... ;) :p

But really, this is what I see happening in the future. Look at the iOSification of OSX. Look at Apple's market - 77% iOS, 14% OSX. Look at the slippery slope that's starting to occur as Apple keeps adding features like Gatekeeper, that regard anything not directly from Apple as "dangerous."

Apple is starting to perfect their walled garden - and I, for one, am not pleased with this perfection...

And I guess if schools start using iPads we won't have to ever worry about the computer science field ever being flooded - filesystem? command line? what are you talking about?

Soon enough I feel that OSX will have to be delegated to just a small 8GB partition in the back of my hard drive and have Ubuntu take over - that is, if Apple's still kind enough to let me install "third-party software." :rolleyes:

Actually, to any software developer it is quite obvious that there is no convergence at all where it counts to end users, and that is in the user interface. Technologies are converging, which is beneficial to all the developers, but not the UI.

On the other hand, it seems that Microsoft got it just as wrong as you did when they start their copiers and produced Windows 8 - perfect convergence between desktop and tablet with the result that you can't use it on either :D

At least W8 is a full operating system, complete with command-line, filesystem, third-party apps, and most likely the ability to run other full-fledged OSs like Linux distros.

Flood123
Jul 24, 2012, 06:46 PM
Flood123 deleted his post, but I don't think it's far-fetched or ridiculous at all either.

Old post restored.
Website programming, photoshop, and design work are nothing - what about computer research? You know, us guys who are plugging away at the Terminal and filesystem, interacting with the kernel 8 hours a day? Puts the rest of you to shame... ;) :p


I think its not a bad home solution for MOST people. Power users are always going to need a work station with lots of horsepower. My thought was just more for a wall hanging solution that handled the same functionality. Hopefully not touch screen. developers creating content to be consumed will ALWAY need power. Personally I am a web developer professionally and an audio engineer hobbyist. I get where you are coming from. Believe me.

SteveW928
Jul 24, 2012, 06:52 PM
Nobody is disappointed.

There are those who are quite Ok with Apple's results.

It is the day-traders who are disappointed, not the sane rest of us.

----------

he obviously can't say that a new apple tv is in the work. that against the secrecy that they have. but i am sure something working out in the lab.

I don't mean that, but he could shown a bit more realistic picture of the present use and importance of the CURRENT Apple TV. Why the HECK do they keep referring to it has a hobby niche type device? It kind of shows me that they don't even understand their own product or its potential.

That does kind of explain why we haven't seen an analog out or wifi router built in though. They can't seem to think outside the living room (i.e. typical consumer use).

johnqh
Jul 24, 2012, 07:01 PM
Apple TV will be huge..... when Apple opens the SDK and allows developers to make apps for it.

It is not about the sales number. It is about the installed base. Apple is doing a stealth attack. Build up the installed base first. When it is about 10 millions, it can make a good case for the developers to make apps, which will in turn drive the hardware sales.

If Apple opens the SDK too early, everyone will only see the sales number at 1 million per quarter, which is not enough as a platform.

Slivortal
Jul 24, 2012, 07:03 PM
Old post restored.


I think its not a bad home solution for MOST people. Power users are always going to need a work station with lots of horsepower. My thought was just more for a wall hanging solution that handled the same functionality. Hopefully not touch screen. developers creating content to be consumed will ALWAY need power. Personally I am a web developer professionally and an audio engineer hobbyist. I get where you are coming from. Believe me.

Oh, I was arguing that Apple was becoming a terrible choice for computer scientists as well. But instead of it being purely a power issue (VMs anyone), it's more an issue of how Apple seems to be locking down its technology to any sort of manipulation. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple takes superuser privileges away from us in the near future because they're "too dangerous". :rolleyes:

KPOM
Jul 24, 2012, 07:10 PM
Ok - so there's no downvote button (for now) - so I'll say it out loud. (And still be bludgeoned for it)

For the first time in a long time - I'm not remotely excited about what Apple has in store for the remainder of this year. Something isn't there - that once was...

I know, I'm a horrible person. :(

It was 6 years after the iPod that the iPhone was released. It was another 3 for the iPad. In between, Apple did a lot of refining. We are in another refinement phase. A 13" MacBook Pro with Retina Display (if true), an LTE iPhone, and possibly a smaller iPad would be fairly significant.

thekev
Jul 24, 2012, 07:14 PM
Come on Fall notebook update and refurbished MacBook Pros!

I wonder if that will actually happen this time. While the parts were there, Apple still allowed the mini to languish. With the notebooks they bumped things as Ivy was already looking pretty far out. Haswell may be the same if they don't want it to come well before Ivy E (my new name for it).

SpyderBite
Jul 24, 2012, 07:16 PM
For all your smarts I think you need a social intelligence refresher.

Acceptance of Ignorance is not Social Intelligence. It is Tolerance. I have no tolerance for ignorance on the subject of financials and I doubt the shareholders do either.

----------

I'd suggest you learn not to take troll bait:rolleyes:. That one should have been fairly obvious. As to workshops, I'd suggest a less biased source. Taking a workshop from a company who takes a direct commission on your trades doesn't seem like a good idea.

Points taken.

As for the bias.. I just shot out the first two brokers that came to mind. Not my preference. My bad.

Swift
Jul 24, 2012, 07:18 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

They still made a crapload of money, in their quiet quarter. Better than almost the entire PC market's losses or razor-thin margins, and much better than Microsoft's first-time-ever loss.

Jb07
Jul 24, 2012, 07:22 PM
Nobody is disappointed.

There are those who are quite Ok with Apple's results.
And there are those who are jealous and claim to be disappointed.

21 million iPads and Macs makes Apple the #1 computer maker this quarter. Why would anybody be disappointed?

iPads are included in the number of computers sold? An iPad isn't a full fledged computer.

tdhurst
Jul 24, 2012, 07:23 PM
iLove my ATV

Heck yeah!

gnasher729
Jul 24, 2012, 07:35 PM
At least W8 is a full operating system, complete with command-line, filesystem, third-party apps, and most likely the ability to run other full-fledged OSs like Linux distros.

Exactly what all the iPad users have been asking for. :D


iPads are included in the number of computers sold? An iPad isn't a full fledged computer.

You don't _have_ to count them. On the other hand, if you were a PC maker, would you ignore iPads and what they mean to your sales? If you were a software developer, would you ignore iPads and what they mean to your sales?


Ba bah ba bah......etc...

Is that a song I should recognize?

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 07:37 PM
Exactly what all the iPad users have been asking for. :D

I've bought all 3 iPad generations and I'm looking forward to the Surface tablets. :rolleyes:

entatlrg
Jul 24, 2012, 07:39 PM
for the most part agreed. this shouldn't be an indication that apple is suddenly going to go bankrupt and lose money.

But if you look at the big picture. The lack of anything truly new this year (all revisions to existing products), plus pissing off a lot of people with the non stop litigations in attempt to limit competition, one can't help but speculate that something isn't entirely right.

Nothing i'd freak out over though. in the current product segments I think we have just finally hit saturation point. it's future new products that will be Telling. The last 2 years or so has seen the world of mobile communications explode more than we've ever seen in the past. hence record profits year after year. At some point, there's just not enough new people to sell too.

the big tell will be in 6mo to a year. if Apple doesn't come out with something to spur on new markets and continue to slide, Then you might be afraid. (but i'm convinced the time of record profits for everyone is behind us)

I respectfully think you're all way off and many are reading far too much into it and maybe missing a big point ... The WORLD economy isn't in great shape!

It's tough times for Europeans, sales of everything are way down, things in China are slower, USA hasn't recovered yet, consumers are cautious in Canada ... everything considered Apple's numbers are nothing but excellent.

What's impacting stock is the super high expectations people have of Apple, consumers want everything new and faster and faster.

To read people's words here saying "Apple hasn't done much with exciting products so far this year" ... what the ef? They've done more this year than other pc company's do in five...

The problem with Apple is they're too good and people get anxious with false hope and unrealistic expectations.

Man, they apply for patents, the Patent Office reviews and grants them. And, when Apple thinks their patents are violated they enforce them and people flip out. Meanwhile other tech companies are suing each other to death and there's rarely a whisper of it. Leave Apple's patent business to a judge and let it go, no one here knows enough detail about the litigation to be able to form an accurate opinion or judgement on it. Freaking soap opera created by techies and geeks - too much.

Apple's going to be just fine.

Rogifan
Jul 24, 2012, 07:50 PM
The worldwide economy sucks right now. And many are saying its heading towards another recession. To think Apple could remain immune from it forever is ridiculous. Tim Cook said Apple under performed in Europe. Wow what a shock. :eek:

Karma*Police
Jul 24, 2012, 07:57 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

Apple didn't fail. The analysts and so-called pundits did. What this shows is that for all their "research" and resources they put into estimating Apple's numbers, they're as clueless as the rest of us.

Also, you have to remember that the analysts were getting killed by the press for coming in so low quarter after quarter so they've been inflating their numbers to avoid embarrassment.

Apple's P/E compression will only make their stock jump that much more after the next gen iPhone is launched so I see a major buying opportunity if the stock dips to the 550 range.

smoledman
Jul 24, 2012, 07:58 PM
Apple didn't fail. The analysts and so-called pundits did. What this shows is that for all their "research" and resources they put into estimating Apple's numbers, they're as clueless as the rest of us.

Also, you have to remember that the analysts were getting killed by the press for coming in so low quarter after quarter so they've been inflating their numbers to avoid embarrassment.

Apple's P/E compression will only make their stock jump that much more after the next gen iPhone is launched so I see a major buying opportunity if the stock dips to the 550 range.

They'll never be in the BRK-A range. :D

mccldwll
Jul 24, 2012, 08:03 PM
[/COLOR]

I don't mean that, but he could shown a bit more realistic picture of the present use and importance of the CURRENT Apple TV. Why the HECK do they keep referring to it has a hobby niche type device? It kind of shows me that they don't even understand their own product or its potential.




I hope you don't seriously believe that. It's been called a "hobby" since introduced and aapl will continue to call it that until it's ready. Aapl is fully aware of its potential and knows exactly where the iTV is headed.

cycomiko
Jul 24, 2012, 08:41 PM
I think that people are finally getting what Steve has been saying.

1. Get rid of the filesystem and you'll have more people "get it"
2. Get rid of multiple windowed environments and that too eases things

That being said I do not see iOS and OS X merging at anything other than the layers below the initial UI and GUI. There's really no need to merge them.


Where as I have gone the other way. I used to use my ipad constantly, but now using it less and less, because of the restrictions around file system, lack of multiple windowed environments.

nuckinfutz
Jul 24, 2012, 08:58 PM
Where as I have gone the other way. I used to use my ipad constantly, but now using it less and less, because of the restrictions around file system, lack of multiple windowed environments.

When I do content creation I want to use my Mac but when I grab my iPad the last thing I want to do is mess with a filesystem or manage windows. I get Apple's point here.

They're not saying computers don't need to exist but rather the needs of consumers can be met in an easier fashion. I endorse this ideology.

Lancer
Jul 24, 2012, 09:18 PM
Maybe if they released the updated iMac the rumors would stop... at least for the quarter :rolleyes:

blow45
Jul 24, 2012, 09:22 PM
Yeah Pete but where are the exciting products anyway? The last two years you basically just stuck two high pixel count screens others have made to two of your devices, and kept the same iPhone design for 2 years in a row (albeit v.2 had a working antenna).

Isn't it high time apple stopped bs-ing and started actually releasing some "exciting" products.:confused:

(hint: you need to pay some money from this wold record breaking stash you have in the bank.)

puckhead193
Jul 24, 2012, 09:25 PM
Screw this fall transition, mac updates are way beyond over due, I want to scream when I go into apple and see people buying out-dated technology from last year at the same price...

Ryth
Jul 24, 2012, 09:26 PM
But if you look at the big picture. The lack of anything truly new this year (all revisions to existing products), plus pissing off a lot of people with the non stop litigations in attempt to limit competition, one can't help but speculate that something isn't entirely right.

Nothing i'd freak out over though. in the current product segments I think we have just finally hit saturation point. it's future new products that will be Telling. The last 2 years or so has seen the world of mobile communications explode more than we've ever seen in the past. hence record profits year after year. At some point, there's just not enough new people to sell too.



Lack of anything truly new? What crack are you smoking?

Lets see...last new product was the iPad in 2010. Before that it was the iPhone in 2007.

Truly 'new' is something that only happens every 3-4 years.

Now in the last 4 months they've brought out the new iPad with Retina and the new Mac Book Pro with Retina...both products whose reviews put them at the TOP of their product categories. And they still haven't brought out possibly the new iPad Mini, the new iMac Retina, the mythical TV and the obvious iPhone 5.

So tell me again how Apple is lacking in something new?

The litigation? Please. Apple has every right to defend and also sue those that are trying to ride on it's R&D and Design.

Lastly..saturation point? Again, what are you SMOKING??? They aren't even CLOSE to saturation with ANY of their products and their market segments have HUGE growth potential...especially in tablets, phones and especially in China.

scarred
Jul 24, 2012, 09:36 PM
Hmm, I'm starting to worry a bit about Cook. He seems to be depending more on spreadsheets than a good understanding of the industry. Apple TV a hobby? Not enough numbers units moved? How about the fact that Apple TV is being used for AirPlay to support all kinds of uses (from iPads and iPhones, and soon from OSX boxes). He can't seriously believe that at this point it is only a hobby in the living room type device, can he?



I read the word 'hobby' to mean that it is currently small potatoes at Apple...not that it is a hobby for consumers. It is a small but interesting market, and they aren't going to abandon it until they see where it goes.

blow45
Jul 24, 2012, 09:41 PM
Lack of anything truly new? What crack are you smoking?

Lets see...last new product was the iPad in 2010. Before that it was the iPhone in 2007.

Truly 'new' is something that only happens every 3-4 years.

Now in the last 4 months they've brought out the new iPad with Retina and the new Mac Book Pro with Retina...both products whose reviews put them at the TOP of their product categories. And they still haven't brought out possibly the new iPad Mini, the new iMac Retina, the mythical TV and the obvious iPhone 5.

So tell me again how Apple is lacking in something new?

The litigation? Please. Apple has every right to defend and also sue those that are trying to ride on it's R&D and Design.

Lastly..saturation point? Again, what are you SMOKING??? They aren't even CLOSE to saturation with ANY of their products and their market segments have HUGE growth potential...especially in tablets, phones and especially in China.

You might want to tell us then what you ar drinking I guess...

A couple of better screens on two devices is something we should be happy about? One stagnant os (iOS) and one actually going backwards in speed and ease of use(os x)? A phone redesigned in two years to nothing new but a working antenna and Siri ( and boy does that work well..). iMacs with the same form factor, ergonomics, and that sordid glass glare layer since 2006? Mac pro with no usb3 in 2012?

Yeah these are some very impressive products... No wonder their profits are under pretty much every analysts predictions...

silroc
Jul 24, 2012, 09:58 PM
You might want to tell us then what you ar drinking I guess...

A couple of better screens on two devices is something we should be happy about? One stagnant os (iOS) and one actually going backwards in speed and ease of use(os x)? A phone redesigned in two years to nothing new but a working antenna and Siri ( and boy does that work well..). iMacs with the same form factor, ergonomics, and that sordid glass glare layer since 2006? Mac pro with no usb3 in 2012?

Yeah these are some very impressive products... No wonder their profits are under pretty much every analysts predictions...


Ouch !!

But you're kinda right!

Ryth
Jul 24, 2012, 10:01 PM
A couple of better screens on two devices is something we should be happy about?

iPad: 17 million units, up 83.9% says yes you should be happy about it. 17 million are.


Yeah these are some very impressive products... No wonder their profits are under pretty much every analysts predictions...

Impressive enough that their sales from last year are up. What about that saturation again?

Sales: $35.023 billion, up 22.5% year over year
Sales: $8.8 billion, up 21%
EPS: $9.32, up 19.6%
iPhone: 26 million units, up 28%
iPad: 17 million units, up 83.9%
Mac: 4 million units, up 1.3%, compared with -1% for the PC market
iPod: 6.8 million units, down 9.8%, over half iPod touch
Apple TV: 1.4 million units, up 170%. 4 million so far this fiscal year

And please don't bring up analysts. They have no clue what they are forecasting..that's why they are called PREDICTIONS.

Apple gave their guidance and beat it and knows whats in the pipeline and whats ahead. They told everyone that this last quarter would not be amazing/blowout due to various factors.

ixodes
Jul 24, 2012, 10:04 PM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

No Worries, only _some_ of Apples revenue is actually being reported.

"Apple leaves cash overseas. If it brought it home to the U.S., it would have to pay federal income taxes on the money. (though it would get a credit for foreign taxes already paid)

In Apple's case, those overseas accounts have grown to a staggering $74 billion — equal to the market value of Citigroup Inc."

Apple doesn't miss a trick :)


source: http://www.ajc.com/business/how-apples-phantom-taxes-1483163.html?src=cb_article

bigpics
Jul 24, 2012, 10:19 PM
A PC is a tool you have to use, a Mac is a tool you love to use.

And giant tech corporations are tools that use you..... :rolleyes:

ericinboston
Jul 24, 2012, 10:22 PM
I think Apple is out of ideas. Seriously. Apple relies 90% on the iOS platform and well, there just ain't anything left to sell for new units....oh, unless you count that (yawn) iPad Mini coming this Fall. Whoopedy Dooo. What's next? An iPad Nano? Yawn again. iPhone 6? Zzzzzzzzzzz. Apple is/has all its eggs in 1 basket.

Apple has been yapping about Apple TV/the wave of television for years, especially almost a year ago with Jobs' death. Here we are...practically a full year later and not even the slightest whiff of a rumor.

The entire Mac line has been on a see-saw for 5+ years now...some iMacs take literally YEARS to be updated...some are renamed for marketing gimmicks...Mac Mini prices go up $100 (25%) for no reason at all, etc.

Unless Apple announces some kind of product breakthrough in the next 12 months (no, I don't count an iPad Mini a breakthrough) then Apple's stock is going to be 1/10th the value come August 2013. I don't follow stocks...but Apple, as a company, has been riding the iOS gravy train for years and now that train is near its final destination.

I'd like to see Apple continue to innovate and come up with FRESH NEW ideas...but my gut tells me Apple's iPad/iPhone/iPod/iOS train is getting old...fast, now that it's been essentially 10 years. Apple has always loved the rumor mill but other than the iPhone 5 and iPad Mini (double yawn), those aren't rumors...those are yearly expectations of new models...there are no rumors...no new products...no major changes...no groundbreaking achievements. These are the "normal" rumors we hear about Apple every year or so and frankly there hasn't been a rumor like that since 2010.

Yelmurc
Jul 24, 2012, 10:23 PM
Whats interesting with a 25% increase in year over year revenues Apples main revenue generating machine dropped from 57% of last years 3rd quarter fiscal revenue to 46% of the this years revenue. It means that Apple is eating their own lunch. Most of that gain has came from the iPad but its still a encouraging sign that Apple is moving the ball forward. And with all this talk of a Apple TV I wouldn't been surprised if it start to take up at significant amount of the revenue in a few years.

Ryth
Jul 24, 2012, 10:27 PM
I think Apple is out of ideas. Seriously. Apple relies 90% on the iOS platform and well, there just ain't anything left to sell for new units....oh, unless you count that (yawn) iPad Mini coming this Fall. Whoopedy Dooo. What's next? An iPad Nano? Yawn again. iPhone 6? Zzzzzzzzzzz. Apple is/has all its eggs in 1 basket.

Apple has been yapping about Apple TV/the wave of television for years, especially almost a year ago with Jobs' death. Here we are...practically a full year later and not even the slightest whiff of a rumor.

The entire Mac line has been on a see-saw for 5+ years now...some iMacs take literally YEARS to be updated...some are renamed for marketing gimmicks...Mac Mini prices go up $100 (25%) for no reason at all, etc.

Unless Apple announces some kind of product breakthrough in the next 12 months (no, I don't count an iPad Mini a breakthrough) then Apple's stock is going to be 1/10th the value come August 2013. I don't follow stocks...but Apple, as a company, has been riding the iOS gravy train for years and now that train is near its final destination.

I'd like to see Apple continue to innovate and come up with FRESH NEW ideas...but my gut tells me Apple's iPad/iPhone/iPod/iOS train is getting old...fast, now that it's been essentially 10 years. Apple has always loved the rumor mill but other than the iPhone 5 and iPad Mini (double yawn), those aren't rumors...those are yearly expectations of new models...there are no rumors...no new products...no major changes...no groundbreaking achievements. These are the "normal" rumors we hear about Apple every year or so and frankly there hasn't been a rumor like that since 2010.

Game changing devices don't come every year or every two years. That's just unrealistic and honestly many people have this delusional view that completely mind blowing ideas/devices need to come out every year. That's just not possible with design/R&D, development, etc.

Can you please tell me one game changing/disruptive device that has come from Google ever? Did you see Android phones before Eric Schmidtt stole the iPhone design?

Apple came out with the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad and the MBAir..all in the last 10 years...all are game changing devices that literally upset/disrupted their product categories and put many competitors out of business. Tell me any company that has come out with products like that in such a short time frame for technology that have literally changed each industry...music, mobile, mobile computing (air), computing (iPad) and now possibly TV coming up?

Badandy
Jul 24, 2012, 10:40 PM
And please don't bring up analysts. They have no clue what they are forecasting..that's why they are called PREDICTIONS.

Umm...exactly?

Apple gave their guidance and beat it and knows whats in the pipeline and whats ahead. They told everyone that this last quarter would not be amazing/blowout due to various factors.

Their guidance is usually extraordinarily conservative and, if you had invested based off of Apple's own estimates rather than the analysts, you would have lost out on a ton of money due to outperformance of their own estimates over the years.

Dissonance
Jul 24, 2012, 10:42 PM
Fall Transition = beginning to move every product to a 16:9 aspect ratio to get alignment between iPhone/iPad/iTV.

leon44
Jul 24, 2012, 10:44 PM
"The great thing about this country is that people can say what they think and so-forth."

Is it just me or do Americans think they invented free speech, you can say what you think in the vast majority of countries!

ericinboston
Jul 24, 2012, 10:47 PM
Game changing devices don't come every year or every two years. That's just unrealistic and honestly many people have this delusional view that completely mind blowing ideas/devices need to come out every year. That's just not possible with design/R&D, development, etc.
I completely agree. But Apple's iPad was essentially an iPhone or iPod Touch x4....yes.

Can you please tell me one game changing/disruptive device that has come from Google ever? Did you see Android phones before Eric Schmidtt stole the iPhone design? I really don't follow Google other than their online services like search and maps....but I really don't see Google doing very well in the physical world...they've always been about making money off ads and having free web services.

Apple came out with the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad and the MBAir..all in the last 10 years...all are game changing devices that literally upset/disrupted their product categories and put many competitors out of business. Tell me any company that has come out with products like that in such a short time frame for technology that have literally changed each industry...music, mobile, mobile computing (air), computing (iPad) and now possibly TV coming up?

The iPhone and iPad are the same thing...and so is the Touch...sorry to tell you that. Physically different shapes and one has phone call abilities, but those are the only differences. There is so much hoopla about the MBA...yet I've never seen one in public. I'm not saying it's a bad machine, but nobody owns it. I wouldn't call the MBA revolutionary...it's a great machine packed in a tiny space...and? If it were selling for $300 that would be revolutionary...but if I remember correctly it debuted at like $1500 and Apple had to drop the price because nobody was buying it.

Apple is a company that, in the past 10+ years, has made it's success on coming up with grand new ideas. Those grand ideas, IMO, ended with the invention of the iPhone and essentially iOS. It's been the same iOS devices for 5+ years now...new iPhones, new Touches, new iPads, the Macs are trying to adopt it...etc. Again, all the eggs are in 1 basket.

Somebody posted a link where 75% of Apple's income is for the iPhone and iPad and iPod. That can be good and can be bad. Less than 15% of Apple's revenue comes from Macs. If I were a Mac diehard, I would be really worried. But on the other hand, Apple doesn't seem to have the heart/balls to kill the Mac line so it will probably live on forever....it would be like McDonalds no longer selling fries...the golden arches logo is just synonymous with fries just as Apple is synonymous with Macs.

atysklind
Jul 24, 2012, 10:49 PM
But it could be soooo much better!!! Eg Web browser, more tv channels! And maybe Apps???

You want to browse the internet with the Apple Remote? I get frustrated enough 'typing' in my Apple ID and password, let alone surfing the Web.

nuckinfutz
Jul 24, 2012, 10:50 PM
"The great thing about this country is that people can say what they think and so-forth."

Is it just me or do Americans think they invented free speech, you can say what you think in the vast majority of countries!

That's what we're taught. Mean ole King George wanted us as mere conscripts subject to endless taxation. So we broke free ;)


Back on topic. Can't wait to see what iOS 6 is gonna bring to the Apple TV besides streaming to Airplay speakers.

santaliqueur
Jul 24, 2012, 11:38 PM
So stupid in fact, that Apple is now the richest, top grossing company in the world.

Top grossing? In the top 50 companies, probably.

SteveW928
Jul 24, 2012, 11:46 PM
I hope you don't seriously believe that. It's been called a "hobby" since introduced and aapl will continue to call it that until it's ready. Aapl is fully aware of its potential and knows exactly where the iTV is headed.

I sure hope you're right about that. I'm just seeing a trend of Apple killing off things that don't meet the popularity of the new consumer model. If you're right, then the Apple TV will fit that model... but that still leaves me worrying a bit about the company overall.

----------

I read the word 'hobby' to mean that it is currently small potatoes at Apple...not that it is a hobby for consumers. It is a small but interesting market, and they aren't going to abandon it until they see where it goes.

I read it to mean that it isn't anything mainstream as far as the consumer market goes... that it is kind of a hobby product for the home-theatre crowd yet.

----------

Is it just me or do Americans think they invented free speech, you can say what you think in the vast majority of countries!

There is a difference between free-speech existing and being tolerated... and being guaranteed by constitution. However, I don't expect it to effectively last all that much longer in the USA either. (cf. Canada)

jlgolson
Jul 24, 2012, 11:52 PM
Top grossing? In the top 50 companies, probably.Top 25 actually, maybe top 20 depending on how things shake out.

Much higher in terms of profit.

autrefois
Jul 25, 2012, 12:11 AM
Ok - so there's no downvote button (for now) - so I'll say it out loud. (And still be bludgeoned for it)

For the first time in a long time - I'm not remotely excited about what Apple has in store for the remainder of this year. Something isn't there - that once was...

I know, I'm a horrible person. :(

Maybe it's because everything seems so routinely predictable now, there's not much surprise. The new iPhone will be released in x timeframe, The new iPad will be in Y timeframe. Heck, people were even able to guess (if you can call it that) when Mountain Lion would come out: the same as last year, the day after their quarterly earnings call.

Yes, there will be occasional surprises in terms of a little feature here or there, or a spec on such and such, but nothing groundbreaking. People even know what will be the next big thing (TV), and Apple seems not to even try to deny it anymore. So that won't even be a surprise really. The main guessing before a new or updated product comes out is about what they're going to name it!

I'm not saying that Apple's products aren't overwhelmingly great and innovative still. But I guess Apple seems like too well-oiled of a machine. They know what they need to put out and when, and they do this really well (mostly), but it seems they are less into putting out insanely great, inspired products and more into getting what they think the market calls for.

Is Mountain Lion being released now because it is mature and feature-rich? No, it's because it's been a year and they want to release a new OS. I think the timeframe determined what is in the OS, and not the other way around like it used to be (to some extent at least). Was Ping this new visionary service? No, it was apparently just because they had to stick something in when things broke down with Facebook.

I don't know if we'll have another iPod moment when no one sees something coming, people think Apple is crazy, but then we find out they were on to something after all. We can pretty much guess what they're going to do and when. They execute well, but ideas have gone from revolutionary to evolutionary.

Hopefully they will prove me wrong, and maybe ML will get me excited again, but that is how it seems right now and that's why, at least for me, the rest of the year doesn't promise to be exciting.

Mackan
Jul 25, 2012, 12:21 AM
It is the day-traders who are disappointed, not the sane rest of us.

----------



I don't mean that, but he could shown a bit more realistic picture of the present use and importance of the CURRENT Apple TV. Why the HECK do they keep referring to it has a hobby niche type device? It kind of shows me that they don't even understand their own product or its potential.

That does kind of explain why we haven't seen an analog out or wifi router built in though. They can't seem to think outside the living room (i.e. typical consumer use).

It will be a hobby until it will be replaced with the real Apple TV, which will be a real television. A screen, with everything. Going to cost you $2000-3000 instead of $99. Sounds good? I bet it sounds good in Apple's ears. Apple always has a plan that smells... profit.

sitsonthefence
Jul 25, 2012, 12:39 AM
Hmm, I'm starting to worry a bit about Cook. He seems to be depending more on spreadsheets than a good understanding of the industry. Apple TV a hobby? Not enough numbers units moved? How about the fact that Apple TV is being used for AirPlay to support all kinds of uses (from iPads and iPhones, and soon from OSX boxes). He can't seriously believe that at this point it is only a hobby in the living room type device, can he?.

I'm not sure there is a market for an enhanced apple tv at this point. When the iPhone first came out it had been rumoured for a long time, and apple were abe to get the product to the right price point. They also had carriers climbing over themselves to be the launch partners.

No one in the media business really wants apple to succeed here as it breaks their business model. On top of that, any apple tv beyond what it is now will be expensive. Last time I looked world economy is not great and landing something brand new out to people (not the core apple fan or early adopters) it unlikely to sell lots if it costs.

Innovation is necessary, but I wonder how long Jobs played with the iPhone design, and the spreadsheets to work out when was the bast time to launch the product?

Ryth
Jul 25, 2012, 12:43 AM
I completely agree. But Apple's iPad was essentially an iPhone or iPod Touch x4....yes.

The iPhone and iPad are the same thing...and so is the Touch...sorry to tell you that. Physically different shapes and one has phone call abilities, but those are the only differences.

They aren't the same thing and they all serve different purposes. Not trying to insult you but you sound like Microsoft...and their "All the iPad is is a big iPod touch"

Considering how vastly different they are and their uses, it's just not even remotely true. If you view it as such then you are just closed minded about it and refuse to look beyond the facts.

It’s a significant rethinking of a product category that melds the simple mobile interface created for the iPhone with a new layer of familiar conventions with the full sized sophistication of the Mac OS X desktop, pared to a multitouch user interface.

Your logic is like saying a compact sedan is the same as a minivan and the same as a porsche other then sizes. Well obviously. But everyone knows there are vast differences and uses for those vehicles even though all have an engine, wheels, etc. Some are faster (processor), some have more passenger room (storage), some are bigger (iPad) and so on and all have needs for the specific driver/user. But you don't hear people going around saying..."All the Mini-van is is a bigger compact"

If I were a Mac diehard, I would be really worried. But on the other hand, Apple doesn't seem to have the heart/balls to kill the Mac line so it will probably live on forever.

Computing is moving beyond the desktop and large machines for the majority of individuals. Most do not need a desktop. They NEVER did. They were given one because that is all that existed for them to do check emails, browse the web, and so on. It is why the iPhone (which is a mobile computer with phone capabilites) and the iPad are so popular. People realize that is what they need. They don't need a desktop or laptop. They never did. I have so many friends that dont even have a computer anymore. They just have their iPhone and/or iPad. These iOS devices ARE the future of computing. The desk is not.

Maybe it's because everything seems so routinely predictable now, there's not much surprise. The new iPhone will be released in x timeframe, The new iPad will be in Y timeframe. Heck, people were even able to guess (if you can call it that) when Mountain Lion would come out: the same as last year, the day after their quarterly earnings call.

You are absolutely right and I have said the same thing. Because of the internet and literally magnifying glass on Apple at all times now, nothing can really WOW or surprise anyone anymore. 4 years ago, this site was barely visited by most. Now it's the mainstay of Apple rumors and leaks. Every blogger and analyst out there focuses on Apple and their products.

Basically we are overloaded with Apple stuff and it's impossible to get away from it and you can't be surprised anymore.

It's sorta the same with video games and everything being leaked/secrets on the web.

flux73
Jul 25, 2012, 12:44 AM
I completely agree. But Apple's iPad was essentially an iPhone or iPod Touch x4....yes.

I really don't follow Google other than their online services like search and maps....but I really don't see Google doing very well in the physical world...they've always been about making money off ads and having free web services.



The iPhone and iPad are the same thing...and so is the Touch...sorry to tell you that. Physically different shapes and one has phone call abilities, but those are the only differences. There is so much hoopla about the MBA...yet I've never seen one in public. I'm not saying it's a bad machine, but nobody owns it. I wouldn't call the MBA revolutionary...it's a great machine packed in a tiny space...and? If it were selling for $300 that would be revolutionary...but if I remember correctly it debuted at like $1500 and Apple had to drop the price because nobody was buying it.

Apple is a company that, in the past 10+ years, has made it's success on coming up with grand new ideas. Those grand ideas, IMO, ended with the invention of the iPhone and essentially iOS. It's been the same iOS devices for 5+ years now...new iPhones, new Touches, new iPads, the Macs are trying to adopt it...etc. Again, all the eggs are in 1 basket.

Somebody posted a link where 75% of Apple's income is for the iPhone and iPad and iPod. That can be good and can be bad. Less than 15% of Apple's revenue comes from Macs. If I were a Mac diehard, I would be really worried. But on the other hand, Apple doesn't seem to have the heart/balls to kill the Mac line so it will probably live on forever....it would be like McDonalds no longer selling fries...the golden arches logo is just synonymous with fries just as Apple is synonymous with Macs.

You seem to be going off on a rant, but I don't really understand why. You talk of grand new ideas that they came up with, but then in almost the same breath you dismiss all the ideas as being the same. So essentially the only grand new ideas they came up with are the iPhone and iOS. What are these other grand new ideas you speak of? By your argument they've stagnated since the first iPhone they came out with because each version of iOS is the same. All the iPhones are the same. The iPad is the same as the iPhone. The iPod Touch is the same as well. Heck, by your argument, the iMac is the same as the Macbook. And all the Macbooks - standard, Pro, and Air - are the same. And yet, the revenue and profit growth would suggest that your assessment is incorrect.

And if you're so unhappy with their lack of innovation, why aren't you jumping to another platform that you feel innovates more? No one's forcing you to use Apple products. Don't just complain, vote with your wallet! That's the beauty of a consumer choice. I'd be interested to hear who you think does a better job with new (and useful) devices/software.

Icaras
Jul 25, 2012, 01:08 AM
Top grossing? In the top 50 companies, probably.

Yea, I should have said most valued.

Rend It
Jul 25, 2012, 02:29 AM
I'm thinking Fall Transition is simply CFO speak for a new iPhone is coming, and people are waiting for it, which is a result of Apple-related rumor sites like MR. I have a vague memory of something similar being said a year ago, when the 4S didn't show up when people had assumed, based on the prior iPhone releases.

They also underplayed that they got hammered by the Ivy Bridge delay, and yield issues related to Mac-sized Retina displays (yield issues that I think are still underway). When they solve that problem, and if Haswell comes out on time, then they will have some nice Mac hardware, and people will buy them up.

Winni
Jul 25, 2012, 02:43 AM
Well, there ya go folks who are freaking out waiting for new stuff :)

Go where and with what? He didn't say anything except for the typical empty "amazing new products are in the pipeline" phrase. That's about as informative as saying nothing at all.

JohnDoe98
Jul 25, 2012, 02:44 AM
Somebody posted a link where 75% of Apple's income is for the iPhone and iPad and iPod. That can be good and can be bad. Less than 15% of Apple's revenue comes from Macs. If I were a Mac diehard, I would be really worried. But on the other hand, Apple doesn't seem to have the heart/balls to kill the Mac line so it will probably live on forever....it would be like McDonalds no longer selling fries...the golden arches logo is just synonymous with fries just as Apple is synonymous with Macs.

14% of 34 Billion in revenue is about 4.76 Billion in revenue from the Macs alone, in one quarter. To cut that off would be sheer stupidity. I think you fail to realize just how much money is being made on the Macs.

Winni
Jul 25, 2012, 02:54 AM
Can you please tell me one game changing/disruptive device that has come from Google ever?

Project Glass.

https://plus.google.com/111626127367496192147/posts

Besides, Google is an Internet and a software company, making gadgets is a "hobby" for them. You know, just like a certain product that sold millions of units still is only a hobby for a certain tech company with a fruit logo from California.

Rogifan
Jul 25, 2012, 02:55 AM
What consumer electronics/tech companies are putting out revolutionary or very innovative products right now? Is a bigger screen on a phone revolutionary? A bigger screen to support a bigger battery to support LTE that the telecoms are pushing? I don't see any other companies pushing out things that blow me away. Maybe Microsoft and Kinnect. When the iPad first came out it was mocked as just an oversized iPod Touch. Well gee, then couldn't we say the Nexus 7 is just an oversized phone (without cellular)? What makes a larger phone or smaller tablet innovative or revolutionary?

Funkmasta
Jul 25, 2012, 03:49 AM
Project Glass doesn't even exist.

Vapor ware as they say, let me know when you've got one on your face.

Project Glass.

https://plus.google.com/111626127367496192147/posts

Besides, Google is an Internet and a software company, making gadgets is a "hobby" for them. You know, just like a certain product that sold millions of units still is only a hobby for a certain tech company with a fruit logo from California.

the8thark
Jul 25, 2012, 03:51 AM
Go where and with what? He didn't say anything except for the typical empty "amazing new products are in the pipeline" phrase. That's about as informative as saying nothing at all.

It's no different to the many many empty rumour articles written every day. I think people like the Apple rumour hype machine. And "amazing new products are in the pipeline" keeps the Apple hype machine rolling on.

Twixt
Jul 25, 2012, 04:10 AM
So disappointing that Apple failed so greatly on their earnings last quarter.

Fully agree, predictable miss though

matrix07
Jul 25, 2012, 04:38 AM
The lack of anything truly new this year

hmm.. how can you say that rMBP isn't new?

plus pissing off a lot of people with the non stop litigations in attempt to limit competition, one can't help but speculate that something isn't entirely right.


When people stop copying Apple the litigation will go away. I'm not pissed off at company trying to protect their innovation. Why are you?
What I'm pissed off is a company try to use standard patent to hurt competition. Is that piss you off?

MonkeySee....
Jul 25, 2012, 05:09 AM
But it could be soooo much better!!! Eg Web browser, more tv channels! And maybe Apps???

You can just Airplay/Mirror from you iPad/iPhone. Why on earth would they put in a browser?

drbotts
Jul 25, 2012, 05:21 AM
Project Glass.

https://plus.google.com/111626127367496192147/posts

Besides, Google is an Internet and a software company, making gadgets is a "hobby" for them. You know, just like a certain product that sold millions of units still is only a hobby for a certain tech company with a fruit logo from California.

Not to mention, the Google Driverless Car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car

That could take the company to a whole new level of integration into our lives.

gnasher729
Jul 25, 2012, 05:21 AM
hmm.. how can you say that rMBP isn't new?
I think the argument is that since it is four weeks old now it isn't new. By that logic, Apple hasn't released a new product with the rMBP, but an old product. Actually, if you follow that logic, Apple has never released a new product.

They tried to get 'round this by calling the iPad 3 "new iPad", but as we all know, it is now the "old iPad", so that wasn't a new product either.

On the other hand, since Apple has never released a Samsung phone or tablet, they are all new products, so Samsung is selling new products all the time.

BSben
Jul 25, 2012, 05:35 AM
Not to mention, the Google Driverless Car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car

That could take the company to a whole new level of integration into our lives.

Other companies have made driverless cars too, Google were not the only ones, nor the first ones.

coolspot18
Jul 25, 2012, 06:02 AM
You can just Airplay/Mirror from you iPad/iPhone. Why on earth would they put in a browser?

So you don't have to have your iPad/iPhone by the TV. The point is to have options not to limit them.

Otherwise AppleTV is just a wireless video extender.

Thex1138
Jul 25, 2012, 06:08 AM
Transformation....

MonkeySee....
Jul 25, 2012, 06:14 AM
So you don't have to have your iPad/iPhone by the TV. The point is to have options not to limit them.

Otherwise AppleTV is just a wireless video extender.

But you'd need to type out the web address etc with your remote. Horrid.

thekev
Jul 25, 2012, 06:29 AM
There is so much hoopla about the MBA...yet I've never seen one in public. I'm not saying it's a bad machine, but nobody owns it. I wouldn't call the MBA revolutionary...it's a great machine packed in a tiny space...and? If it were selling for $300 that would be revolutionary...but if I remember correctly it debuted at like $1500 and Apple had to drop the price because nobody was buying it.



http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook-air/specs/macbook-air-core-2-duo-1.6-13-specs.html

It weighed 3 pounds with no SSD standard. It was slow and clunky as the cpu was underclocked. It started at $1800 with a really poor configuration. The experiment failed and they revised it. In spite of your experiences, the machine seems to be doing fine. I'm not sure how much of that comes from its price point relative to the other macs.


Somebody posted a link where 75% of Apple's income is for the iPhone and iPad and iPod. That can be good and can be bad. Less than 15% of Apple's revenue comes from Macs. If I were a Mac diehard, I would be really worried. But on the other hand, Apple doesn't seem to have the heart/balls to kill the Mac line so it will probably live on forever....it would be like McDonalds no longer selling fries...the golden arches logo is just synonymous with fries just as Apple is synonymous with Macs.

Their shareholders would crucify them for this. If you look at the pie chart, it's not all ipads. It's really more diverse than you're suggesting with itunes, the app store, the iphone, ipad, macs, and the ipod all making contributions. Cutting off several billion dollars per quarter is not something that would send a good message. In fact it would be stupid as they would lose sales yet maintain support costs for several years.

whooleytoo
Jul 25, 2012, 06:48 AM
So, what's the Autumn (sorry.. "Fall") transition which reduces their margins?

It implies raised production costs, or reduced prices. I can't imagine Apple is going to shift to selling lower priced products now; so the likelihood is increased production costs. I guess the obvious candidate would be more Retina devices: they'll be adding more expensive displays across the product line, without raising prices to compensate.

Rogifan
Jul 25, 2012, 06:48 AM
The iPhone and iPad are the same thing...and so is the Touch...sorry to tell you that. Physically different shapes and one has phone call abilities, but those are the only differences. There is so much hoopla about the MBA...yet I've never seen one in public. I'm not saying it's a bad machine, but nobody owns it. I wouldn't call the MBA revolutionary...it's a great machine packed in a tiny space...and? If it were selling for $300 that would be revolutionary...but if I remember correctly it debuted at like $1500 and Apple had to drop the price because nobody was buying it.

This reminds me of the quote from Pauline Kael who said after the '72 election "How could Nixon have won? Nobody I know voted for him". What evidence other than anecdotal do you have that no one is buying the MBA? If the really was the case Apple wouldn't be selling them. And PC OEM's wouldnt be copying it left, right and center. Apple is not going to spend money manufacturing a product nobody is buying. And $300? Are you joking? Name for me one PC Ultrabook that is selling for $300. The ones that get the best reviews are priced comparable to the MBA. So I'm not sure where you're getting $300 from. :confused:

blow45
Jul 25, 2012, 06:58 AM
iPad: 17 million units, up 83.9% says yes you should be happy about it. 17 million are.



Impressive enough that their sales from last year are up. What about that saturation again?

Sales: $35.023 billion, up 22.5% year over year
Sales: $8.8 billion, up 21%
EPS: $9.32, up 19.6%
iPhone: 26 million units, up 28%
iPad: 17 million units, up 83.9%
Mac: 4 million units, up 1.3%, compared with -1% for the PC market
iPod: 6.8 million units, down 9.8%, over half iPod touch
Apple TV: 1.4 million units, up 170%. 4 million so far this fiscal year

And please don't bring up analysts. They have no clue what they are forecasting..that's why they are called PREDICTIONS.

Apple gave their guidance and beat it and knows whats in the pipeline and whats ahead. They told everyone that this last quarter would not be amazing/blowout due to various factors.

I think I 've missed the part where you actually replied to my points about the lack of real technical innovation at apple...:rolleyes:

hickabob
Jul 25, 2012, 07:16 AM
Peter's sentence structure is that of an 8th grader's...

Omniver
Jul 25, 2012, 07:26 AM
"The great thing about this country is that people can say what they think and so-forth."

Is it just me or do Americans think they invented free speech, you can say what you think in the vast majority of countries!

Invented it? No, it goes back at least to Socrates; but I believe the U.S. was the first government to make it a fundamentally recognized freedom for all of its citizens within its constitution (1791, First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution)

Americans are arrogant, yes. But let us have a sense of legitimate pride on succeeding in making free speech a fundamental right for over 200 years now. This was a good thing.

[edit] - credit where credit is due, France was also working on it at essentially the exact same time.

alent1234
Jul 25, 2012, 07:42 AM
Project Glass.

https://plus.google.com/111626127367496192147/posts

Besides, Google is an Internet and a software company, making gadgets is a "hobby" for them. You know, just like a certain product that sold millions of units still is only a hobby for a certain tech company with a fruit logo from California.


and what are you going to do with these glasses while walking around? get a hard on from all the data coming to you?

Oletros
Jul 25, 2012, 08:11 AM
Project Glass doesn't even exist.

Vapor ware as they say, let me know when you've got one on your face.

So, the glasses shown at Google I/O were fake?

ristlin
Jul 25, 2012, 08:34 AM
Nope, you're just realistic. ;)

The big question I have now for Apple and the rest of the tech industry is: Where do we go from here? The "computer" has evolved from a room of vacuum tubes to a desktop to a laptop to a portable screen of varying sizes. What's the next step?

Cyborgs baby!

----------

and what are you going to do with these glasses while walking around? get a hard on from all the data coming to you?

http://team-damage.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/OH-YEAH.jpg

santaliqueur
Jul 25, 2012, 08:38 AM
Top 25 actually, maybe top 20 depending on how things shake out.

Much higher in terms of profit.

Looks like they are 43 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue).

cliveren13
Jul 25, 2012, 08:39 AM
Nope, you're just realistic. ;)

The big question I have now for Apple and the rest of the tech industry is: Where do we go from here? The "computer" has evolved from a room of vacuum tubes to a desktop to a laptop to a portable screen of varying sizes. What's the next step?

The next step is a re-emergence of Microsoft just sitting and waiting WINDOWS 8 anyone?

pmz
Jul 25, 2012, 08:47 AM
Apple uses such terms as "Fall transition" to represent changes to their product lines. Lower expected gross margins could point to new products with lower prices. The obvious speculation would point to the much rumored smaller/cheaper 7.85" iPad. Whatever the "fall transition" is, Apple expects it to take place before the end of September in order for it to impact the next quarter.


:confused: where do you people come from? the Devry school of buziness?

Thats not what Fall Transition means, at all.

The Transition refers to the temporary decline in revenue as their major product launches approach, and sales of existing products dwindle ad come to a standstill as new products get closer to launch day. It has absolutely nothing to do with new low priced products that have slim margins for Apple. LMAO

Ryth
Jul 25, 2012, 09:35 AM
Project Glass.

https://plus.google.com/111626127367496192147/posts

Besides, Google is an Internet and a software company, making gadgets is a "hobby" for them. You know, just like a certain product that sold millions of units still is only a hobby for a certain tech company with a fruit logo from California.

Oh...I totally forgot about this and how you can roll down to Best Buy and buy it right now...

Vaporware like MS courier isn't a product...try again.

Not to mention, the Google Driverless Car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car

That could take the company to a whole new level of integration into our lives.

Oh...I totally forgot about this and how you can roll down to a car dealer and buy one right now...

Oletros
Jul 25, 2012, 09:37 AM
Oh...I totally forgot about this and how you can roll down to Best Buy and buy it right now...

Vaporware like MS courier isn't a product...try again.

Demonstrating that you don't know what vaporware really is?

Ryth
Jul 25, 2012, 09:40 AM
I think I 've missed the part where you actually replied to my points about the lack of real technical innovation at apple...:rolleyes:

I did reply..those % show that people do not agree with you about innovation...otherwise their products would not be selling.

You can also head to Post #74 if you want more about it.

----------

Demonstrating that you don't know what vaporware really is?

I totally know what vaporware is. I don't think you do.

Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially cancelled.

Until those 'hobbies' actually are released and are out of Google's test lab, they are nothing more then that.

Oletros
Jul 25, 2012, 10:20 AM
I totally know what vaporware is. I don't think you do.

Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially cancelled.

Until those 'hobbies' actually are released and are out of Google's test lab, they are nothing more then that.


First, Courier was never anounced to the general public, so it wasn never vaporware.

And second, Project Glasses was presented months ago and was said that it will be released next year.

Are you saying that when Apple presents a product and didn't release it for months it is vaporware? Was the iPhone from January 2.007 to June 2.007 vaporware?

Yeas, you have demonstrated that you don't know what vaporware is

jlgolson
Jul 25, 2012, 10:25 AM
Looks like they are 43 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue).
Last year, yes, but since they are going to do more than $150 billion in revenue this year, they are much higher than that these days.

Apple has already made $18 billion more in 2012 than they did in all of 2011 -- with an entire quarter still to go.

alent1234
Jul 25, 2012, 10:29 AM
First, Courier was never anounced to the general public, so it wasn never vaporware.

And second, Project Glasses was presented months ago and was said that it will be released next year.

Are you saying that when Apple presents a product and didn't release it for months it is vaporware? Was the iPhone from January 2.007 to June 2.007 vaporware?

Yeas, you have demonstrated that you don't know what vaporware is

its a controlled dev release only to those who attended google i/o

all the google fans say how cool google glass is but no one can seem to figure out why its cool or any practical use for it in everyday life. for iphone and ipad there is a practical use that can save you money in a lot of cases.

WTF does google glass do except present data to you that in a lot of cases you don't really need unless you're a retard who needs navigation in normal life

Ryth
Jul 25, 2012, 10:37 AM
First, Courier was never anounced to the general public, so it wasn never vaporware.

And second, Project Glasses was presented months ago and was said that it will be released next year.

Are you saying that when Apple presents a product and didn't release it for months it is vaporware? Was the iPhone from January 2.007 to June 2.007 vaporware?

Yeas, you have demonstrated that you don't know what vaporware is

Apple when they present a product actually has...wait for it...a RELEASE DATE and ...wait for it... a PRICING MODEL.

And how many times have we heard about something being released 'next year' and it never actually occurs?

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

Rogifan
Jul 25, 2012, 10:45 AM
First, Courier was never anounced to the general public, so it wasn never vaporware.

And second, Project Glasses was presented months ago and was said that it will be released next year.

Are you saying that when Apple presents a product and didn't release it for months it is vaporware? Was the iPhone from January 2.007 to June 2.007 vaporware?

Yeas, you have demonstrated that you don't know what vaporware isSeriously you're comparing the first iPhone to Google Glasses? When Apple annouced it they had specs, price and release date. That's not vaporware.

Ryth
Jul 25, 2012, 11:00 AM
Seriously you're comparing the first iPhone to Google Glasses? When Apple annouced it they had specs, price and release date. That's not vaporware.

He's clueless dude...don't even bother.

mccldwll
Jul 25, 2012, 11:07 AM
No Worries, only _some_ of Apples revenue is actually being reported.

"Apple leaves cash overseas. If it brought it home to the U.S., it would have to pay federal income taxes on the money. (though it would get a credit for foreign taxes already paid)

In Apple's case, those overseas accounts have grown to a staggering $74 billion — equal to the market value of Citigroup Inc."

Apple doesn't miss a trick :)


source: http://www.ajc.com/business/how-apples-phantom-taxes-1483163.html?src=cb_article


Actually, no. All of that revenue is being reported by aapl but foreign sourced income is taxed where generated at lower rates. Foreign sourced income which is repatriated would then be subject to U.S. taxes (with a credit for any foreign taxes paid thereon).

Oletros
Jul 25, 2012, 12:38 PM
Apple when they present a product actually has...wait for it...a RELEASE DATE and ...wait for it... a PRICING MODEL.

And how many times have we heard about something being released 'next year' and it never actually occurs?

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about.

Seriously you're comparing the first iPhone to Google Glasses? When Apple annouced it they had specs, price and release date. That's not vaporware.

They have a release date, they have a developer price.

You obviously say that it is vaporware because you're obviously are bashing anything that is not Apple's.

Have a nice day.

----------

He's clueless dude...don't even bother.

Clueless my ass

Ryth
Jul 25, 2012, 01:49 PM
They have a release date, they have a developer price.

Oh..they have a release date huh? Can you please SHOW US that SPECIFIC release date. Oh you can't.

Keep making stuff up...it makes you continue to look clueless

When asked about a potential release, Brin states that he has “some hopes to maybe get it out sometime next year,” although he did caution “that’s still a little bit of a hope.”

You obviously say that it is vaporware because you're obviously are bashing anything that is not Apple's.

Hmmm...lets check some other tech sites and their definition of Project Glass and if it's vaporware.

Oh look Techcrunch..

Yes, Project Glass is nothing but vaporware right now....

http://techcrunch.com/2012/04/05/google-eye/

Oh look Treehugger

Google Glasses: Vaporware, Next Big Thing, Helpful Green Gadget, or Accident Waiting to Happen?

http://www.treehugger.com/gadgets/google-glasses-vaporware-next-big-thing-helpful-green-gadget-or-accident-waiting-happen.html

Oh look Wired

Nonetheless, if Google is unable to deliver on most of what the video shows, all the research in the world won’t stop consumers uttering the worst word in the technology world: vaporware.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/04/augmented-reality-experts-say-google-glasses-face-serious-hurdles/

It IS vaporware. A DEVELOPER product is not a CONSUMER product. Until that device is sold as an end product, whether it's to consumers or industries/businesses, it is exactly vaporware. Again, why don't you READ the definition and stop making yourself look so clueless.

Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware#Hardware

Tell me again when Project Glass is being released...oh *sometime* possibly in 2013...but again, that's according to your boyz...a bit of a stretch. Project Glass is nothing more then a grad school project that will never materialize.

----------


Clueless my ass

Yes...yes you are. You really need to stop commenting because you are just making yourself look more clueless by the minute by not even understanding the simple definition of VAPORWARE.

Oletros
Jul 25, 2012, 02:08 PM
Yes...yes you are. You really need to stop commenting because you are just making yourself look more clueless by the minute by not even understanding the simple definition of VAPORWARE.

If you like to believe that, well, be happy.

Stoobs
Jul 25, 2012, 04:17 PM
Ignoring all the vaporware sillyness above..

Could the earnings "miss" be because Apple has invested a massive amount in an as yet unannounced product (big component pre-buys etc), or was that covered in the earnings call? (Haven't got around to reading the transcript yet..)

It can't all be down to a slow-down in iPhone sales can it?

Ryth
Jul 25, 2012, 04:28 PM
If you like to believe that, well, be happy.

Still waiting for you to produce that magical release date you keep talking about.

Vapor
.
.
.
.
Ware
.
.
.
.

And I guess all those other tech sites are wrong on the definition of vaporware also huh?

CoreyLahey
Jul 25, 2012, 06:36 PM
Oppenheimer seems to think people are stupid. "we try to keep everything secret, but we can't stop speculation".... and then he celebrates himself as the true hero of free ****ing speech. The main reasons for them to keep everything secret are a ) creating speculations and hype b ) selling older products. A distant c ) would be "worries about the competition". Does he have a background in politics? There is absolutely no practical benefit to consumers with Apple's secrecy, but tons of disadvantages (do I buy now, should I buy something else, can I/my clients/business/my dog/cat/grandmother wait until they decide to bless us with the privilege to shove our money up their behinds, will it have USB 2000 and a retinal scanner, blah, blah blah) - I never understood why so many people hate Apple, but I'm starting to get an idea. I love my iPhone and iPad, great devices, and I will at some point switch from PC to an iMac (possibly the 2016 model which is going to resemble the Virtual Boy), but not before Oppenheimer publicly apologizes to me. Preferably in writing and verbally. Also, if you actually read, please report to the **** off department.

alfistas
Jul 25, 2012, 07:05 PM
I think the slow down in growth was due to the bad economy. Everyone knows that many European states are in a bad shape and the people there are cutting down on their expenses.

This can go two ways: Either the European economy is going to improve soon and things are going to go back to normal OR Apple will have to lower their profit margins in those regions in order to boost sales.

I'm still not sure how apple is going to sell any significant numbers of rMBPs in Europe at the current asking price... I live in the UK and I honestly don't know anyone who could justify that kind of purchase under the current economic climate.

SactoGuy18
Jul 25, 2012, 11:05 PM
I think by October 2012, Apple should have this in the product line, based on what I think based on the conference call:

MacBook Air and MacBook Pro -- new models already out.
iMac -- new model coming out in September-October time frame with new "Ivy Bridge" series Intel CPU's in 21", 24" and 27" display sizes.
Mac Pro -- one last model with "Ivy Bridge" series Intel Xeon CPU's, USB 3.0 ports and as much as two Thunderbolt ports.
iPad -- 9.7" model with Retina Display already out since March. New 7.85" model at lower cost comes out in September.
iPhone -- new model with 4" touchscreen, 3GPP LTE, and possible NFC mobile payments arrives in September.
iPod touch -- new model with 4" touchscreen (e.g., a slightly less advanced version of the new iPhone's touchscreen) replaces the current model with 16, 32 and 64 GB flash memory storage.
iPod nano -- new model with touchscreen display that has a shape akin to 2G to 5G nanos, with 8 and 16 GB flash memory storage.
iPod shuffle -- no changes.

MarkCollette
Jul 26, 2012, 01:36 AM
The theory is that Apple is moving towards a convergence of hardware (and software to a degree) platforms so that ideally, a consumer would own a large screen (iTV), medium screen (iPad) and a small screen (iPhone). All would provide access to the same content, thus allowing you to consume or utilize the content anywhere you were with obvious tradeoffs of portability vs screen size. Most techies blow this off because they think it's ridiculous that they would get rid of Mac. I don't think Apple necessarily plans to get rid of the Mac, just that it would be marginalized. Most tech geeks just don't realize how much in the minority we are.

I think Steve probably realized awhile back that most people don't use the applications that us tech geeks "need" a computer for - website programming, photoshop, design work, etc. iOS is designed to optimize content consumption, rather than creation. Content creation is only utilized by a small percentage of the population. Thus, as more and more people get an iPad, they'll completely forego getting a PC or Mac.

I agree, for consumers at home, a tablet is the future, and not the home computer. But, that doesn't address the white collar worker / entrepreneur, who will always require a real computer for their job and income. This is so much larger than just tech people, it's accountants, lawyers, authors, financial analysts, etc. Everyone who primarily spends their day using Office, inputting data.


It's actually more disappointing than exciting. The reason that all the changes are coming from the consumer end is because professional markets are no longer coming up with good ideas.

...

But really, this is what I see happening in the future. Look at the iOSification of OSX. Look at Apple's market - 77% iOS, 14% OSX. Look at the slippery slope that's starting to occur as Apple keeps adding features like Gatekeeper, that regard anything not directly from Apple as "dangerous."

Apple is starting to perfect their walled garden - and I, for one, am not pleased with this perfection...

Computers have been good enough for the vast majority of professional uses for 5-10 years now. The major form factor shift from desktops to laptops was the only real gain. The only noticeable gains remaining, that give users new capabilities, already started a while ago and involve day long or multi-day battery life, ubiquitous retina resolution all the way up to 30" displays, improved wireless networking (4G built-in). Most everything else will be incremental hardware improvements and software improvements.

Consumer devices have much more room for innovations, since they're used in more places and in more ways than the typical professional at a desk. I wouldn't be depressed by all this, when technology reaches a good enough point, it lets us focus on other issues.

Computer security is still not where it needs to be, since breaches are still rampant, but I agree that centralisation of control is worrying. With man in the middle attacks, too much centralisation is broken, but no one computer can guard against what it's not been already instructed to protect itself from, so some centralisation is necessary to accomplish this.


Where as I have gone the other way. I used to use my ipad constantly, but now using it less and less, because of the restrictions around file system, lack of multiple windowed environments.

Something new is fun to explore, but at the end of the day, they don't cut it for getting real work done.


A couple of better screens on two devices is something we should be happy about? One stagnant os (iOS) and one actually going backwards in speed and ease of use(os x)? A phone redesigned in two years to nothing new but a working antenna and Siri ( and boy does that work well..). iMacs with the same form factor, ergonomics, and that sordid glass glare layer since 2006? Mac pro with no usb3 in 2012?

That must take a special kind of concentration, to ignore all of the actual improvements, while only focusing on the most superficial of developments. Would you prefer new devices where all of the internals remain the same and the containers are radically different?

You know that every component in a device gains some small percent of greater capability and/or lower cost each year, that's really not all that impressive. Only after a couple years does the aggregate improvement become noticeable or lead to actual new real world capabilities.


Is Mountain Lion being released now because it is mature and feature-rich? No, it's because it's been a year and they want to release a new OS. I think the timeframe determined what is in the OS, and not the other way around like it used to be.

Good! As a software developer, I'd say that many many projects have been migrating for quite some time now to a tighter fixed iteration cycle, since it does improve quality and timeliness of feature release. Yes, it's less exciting, but everyone involved benefits.


It will be a hobby until it will be replaced with the real Apple TV, which will be a real television. A screen, with everything. Going to cost you $2000-3000 instead of $99. Sounds good? I bet it sounds good in Apple's ears. Apple always has a plan that smells... profit.

From Apple's past actions, I agree. But possibly the installed base of existing TVs is so great that they'll need to follow a dual strategy of their own TVs as well as a set top box.


Project Glass.

https://plus.google.com/111626127367496192147/posts

I always thought the future was wearable computing, instead of displays where you have the trade-off of greater ability to see information with reduced portability. But at the same time, there remains a small stigma against glasses, and 3D movies have shown us the fatigue that comes from using these visual tricks. And the idea of a display for just one eye, ala Google Glass, worries me greatly for vision problems after prolonged use. On the other hand, if they can cover both eyes and adapt the focal point to force greater eye movement and focusing range than on a standard computer, then this might be even better for eyesight than what we currently have. Devil's in the details.


all the google fans say how cool google glass is but no one can seem to figure out why its cool or any practical use for it in everyday life. for iphone and ipad there is a practical use that can save you money in a lot of cases.

WTF does google glass do except present data to you that in a lot of cases you don't really need unless you're a retard who needs navigation in normal life

Walking around on the street it seems a tad unnecessary for me, but I could see someone who needs personal assistance being helped by it. As a replacement for having several 30" displays on my desktop, that would be killer.

SteveW928
Jul 26, 2012, 05:45 AM
It will be a hobby until it will be replaced with the real Apple TV, which will be a real television. A screen, with everything. Going to cost you $2000-3000 instead of $99. Sounds good? I bet it sounds good in Apple's ears. Apple always has a plan that smells... profit.

I'm still not seeing why Apple would make an actual TV type display. That just doesn't make sense.

They don't make much profit if nobody buys them, no matter what the margin.

Labbe
Jul 26, 2012, 05:47 AM
I'm still not seeing why Apple would make an actual TV type display. That just doesn't make sense.

They don't make much profit if nobody buys them, no matter what the margin.

Why wouldn't people buy them? Can you elaborate?

MarkCollette
Jul 26, 2012, 05:59 AM
I'm still not seeing why Apple would make an actual TV type display. That just doesn't make sense.

An add-on box would still require people to use the regular TV's complicated remote control and device specific menus, as well as deal with the cabling to the attached Apple box. Not exactly seamless simplicity. Remember, we live in an era of DVD/Bluray/VCRs not showing the time anymore since most people can't even figure that out.

thleeal
Jul 26, 2012, 06:15 AM
Crikey.... How much money do they have?
Do something redickulously advanced please.
Like buy a city... Holographic computers.... Quantum whatever there called. Heck buy a national park... Or a small nation. I absolutely love my apple products not because of some stupid fanboy ism. But because they make my life easier and Sexer.

Don't just show us big piles of money in a currency that is dwindling.......

mccldwll
Jul 26, 2012, 06:57 AM
An add-on box would still require people to use the regular TV's complicated remote control and device specific menus, as well as deal with the cabling to the attached Apple box. Not exactly seamless simplicity. Remember, we live in an era of DVD/Bluray/VCRs not showing the time anymore since most people can't even figure that out.

Why assume that? As far as cabling, why would anything more than an hdmi cable (aaplTV) be necessary? Further, with many new sets having wifi capability, a cable might not be needed at all. Aapl's strength has always been to simplify the complicated. I see no reason why a set top box with a touch screen remote (iPhone/iPad/7.85" remote) couldn't theoretically handle all necessary device specific menus. Aapl doesn't need to make a panel to crack the problem.

Pianoblack3
Jul 26, 2012, 07:38 AM
Come on Fall notebook update and refurbished MacBook Pros!

Why on earth would you want a Notebook update now!? Did you miss WWDC?

Last year we got two, in reasonable places. March and October, where as this year June was the starting date, so are you saying December is the next?

h0mi
Jul 26, 2012, 12:47 PM
Why on earth would you want a Notebook update now!? Did you miss WWDC?

Last year we got two, in reasonable places. March and October, where as this year June was the starting date, so are you saying December is the next?

I'm rooting for a mac mini and imac update, and I'm not against a Mac tower update either, even if I don't want a mac tower myself.

Pianoblack3
Jul 26, 2012, 01:17 PM
I'm rooting for a mac mini and imac update, and I'm not against a Mac tower update either, even if I don't want a mac tower myself.

IMO, yes, I managed to get a Mac Pro via Apple's site up to £13,000 by using all their accessories and SSD's, with 12 Core.

IPlayFair
Jul 26, 2012, 01:26 PM
I have cash burning in my pocket. I don't know if I can keep there until the Fall. I'd like an IMac but I'm taking a strong look at the Retina Macbook Pro.

Eidorian
Jul 26, 2012, 04:31 PM
Why on earth would you want a Notebook update now!? Did you miss WWDC?

Last year we got two, in reasonable places. March and October, where as this year June was the starting date, so are you saying December is the next?Ivy Bridge is already set to see its speed bump. The OEM parts numbers are out.

MarkCollette
Jul 27, 2012, 12:07 AM
Why assume that? As far as cabling, why would anything more than an hdmi cable (aaplTV) be necessary? Further, with many new sets having wifi capability, a cable might not be needed at all. Aapl's strength has always been to simplify the complicated. I see no reason why a set top box with a touch screen remote (iPhone/iPad/7.85" remote) couldn't theoretically handle all necessary device specific menus. Aapl doesn't need to make a panel to crack the problem.

I think the menus and remotes are a bigger issue than the cabling for the average user. But even just connecting the one cable and changing to the appropriate input to use it is beyond many. Likely, using wifi would take even more technical know-how to configure.

Eidorian
Jul 27, 2012, 12:31 AM
Massive cleanup of the Core 2 based machines on the refurbished store in the past few days. The 15" MacBook Pro is nearly all Late 2011 machines, for now...

thekev
Jul 27, 2012, 01:19 AM
Massive cleanup of the Core 2 based machines on the refurbished store in the past few days. The 15" MacBook Pro is nearly all Late 2011 machines, for now...

I wonder what they did with all of them. Some of the late 2011 pricing is still higher than it should be. There are many that are just too much in line with their Ivy Bridge counterparts when Ivy still outpaces them somewhat.

Pianoblack3
Jul 27, 2012, 04:24 AM
Ivy Bridge is already set to see its speed bump. The OEM parts numbers are out.

Fair enough!

Eidorian
Jul 27, 2012, 11:46 AM
I wonder what they did with all of them. Some of the late 2011 pricing is still higher than it should be. There are many that are just too much in line with their Ivy Bridge counterparts when Ivy still outpaces them somewhat.The significant difference is USB 3.0 and the GPU. Some of the refurb discounts are amazing but others are from BTO models. Not to mention Apple has the Retina Macbook Pro fighting it out now against the $2,199 Macbook Pro. That is a mess right there.

spatlese44
Jul 30, 2012, 10:48 AM
I didn't get a chance to read all the posts in this thread, but did anyone notice what the Lion tech spec page has this to say about AirPlay Mirroring:

"Requires a second-generation Apple TV or later."

Or later?

blevins321
Jul 30, 2012, 10:50 AM
I didn't get a chance to read all the posts in this thread, but did anyone notice what the Lion tech spec page has this to say about AirPlay Mirroring:

"Requires a second-generation Apple TV or later."

Or later?

Well the current version is the third-generation. They're leaving it open for future updates.

SteveW928
Feb 8, 2013, 06:40 PM
I think the menus and remotes are a bigger issue than the cabling for the average user. But even just connecting the one cable and changing to the appropriate input to use it is beyond many. Likely, using wifi would take even more technical know-how to configure.

If that is what 'cracking the problem' entails, then I'll be horribly disappointed. People who can't hook up a cable and switch an input hire someone or invite their geeky nephew over for pizza. It's pretty much a one-time thing as well, as if the box is properly designed, they won't have to change anything again.

I just think adding a screen to the mix solves the problem you're indicating for a few, but excludes a huge portion of the potential market. I suppose they could have a screen based model as well as a box. That might make the most sense.

SteveW928
Feb 9, 2013, 05:19 AM
BTW, here is one of the best guesstimates I've seen so far:
http://ipadalone.com/2013/01/22/a-television-from-apple-part-ii/

luffytubby
Feb 9, 2013, 06:55 AM
Apple TV uses wifi for its mirroring right? so in theory, having Apple tv adopted to use 802.11ac should make the apple tv much better as a mirroring source?