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View Full Version : Apple's Removes Mentions of Safari for Windows, But Version 5.1.7 Still Available For Now [Updated]




MacRumors
Jul 25, 2012, 10:42 AM
http://images.macrumors.com/im/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/25/apples-removes-mentions-of-safari-for-windows-but-version-5-1-7-still-available/)


With today's release of Safari 6 (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/25/apple-releases-safari-6-update-for-os-x-lion/), there has been some confusion over the fate of Safari for Windows. Apple's Safari download page (http://www.apple.com/safari/download) that previously allowed users to download versions for Mac or Windows now redirects to the main Safari page highlighting Safari 6 for Mac, with no mention of Safari for Windows anywhere in Apple's revamped Safari feature pages.

But while Safari for Windows has not been upgraded to version 6 and thus has not received the many new features included for Mac in that release, Apple does appear to be planning to continue quietly offering Safari for Windows. Listings for Safari updates in Apple's support download pages had previously summarized (http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1531) all available Mac and Windows version and provided a link to the general download page, but Apple has now placed Safari for Windows on a dedicated page (http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1539) linking directly to the download.

http://images.macrumors.com/article-new/2012/07/safari_5_1_7_windows.jpg


Safari for Windows remains at version 5.1.7 initially released (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/09/apple-releases-os-x-10-7-4/) alongside OS X 10.7.4 in early May. The software is clearly not a high priority for Apple, as evidenced by the removal of all mentions of the Windows option from the main Safari product pages, but the company is keeping the most recent version available for download. It is unclear, however, whether Apple has plans to bring additional feature updates to the browser.

Update: Apple has pulled the standalone Safari 5.1.7 for Windows download page, redirecting visitors to the previous version that links to the now-discontinued general Safari download page. As a result, it appears that Safari for Windows is now not directly linked anywhere in Apple's official download pages.

Article Link: Apple's Removes Mentions of Safari for Windows, But Version 5.1.7 Still Available For Now [Updated] (http://www.macrumors.com/2012/07/25/apples-removes-mentions-of-safari-for-windows-but-version-5-1-7-still-available/)



Summersify
Jul 25, 2012, 10:46 AM
I guess Safari 6 was just too snappy for Windows machines to run...

Hastings101
Jul 25, 2012, 10:47 AM
Probably because all the Windows Safari users switched to Chrome :p

Consultant
Jul 25, 2012, 10:49 AM
I like Safari for Windows. Works great in bootcamp.

Hopefully it will be updated.

MonkeySee....
Jul 25, 2012, 10:52 AM
I like Safari for Windows. Works great in bootcamp.

Hopefully it will be updated.

I like it too. For some reason though it keeps crashing and windows shuts it down. I've even disabled all extensions.

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 10:56 AM
With Chrome providing a leading browser on Windows that uses Webkit and Apple's awful UI integration on Windows, is it any surprise the product never really took off ? Apple really pushes for developers to respect OS X's HIG, yet they completely fail to follow Microsoft's when porting their software to Windows.

aross99
Jul 25, 2012, 10:56 AM
I have been using it at work for some time - I like the consistency when using Windows...

Hope it continues to be updated...

hobo.hopkins
Jul 25, 2012, 10:57 AM
I can see why it wouldn't be a priority for Apple. Would be somewhat sad to see it go however.

astrorider
Jul 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
With Chrome providing a leading browser on Windows that uses Webkit and Apple's awful UI integration on Windows, is it any surprise the product never really took off ? Apple really pushes for developers to respect OS X's HIG, yet they completely fail to follow Microsoft's when porting their software to Windows.

There's a Windows HIG?

guzhogi
Jul 25, 2012, 11:01 AM
With Chrome providing a leading browser on Windows that uses Webkit and Apple's awful UI integration on Windows, is it any surprise the product never really took off ? Apple really pushes for developers to respect OS X's HIG, yet they completely fail to follow Microsoft's when porting their software to Windows.

Apple fails in some of its own Mac OS X apps for HIGs. Look at Calendar, Address Book & App Store. Calendar & Address have totally custom GUIs, while the stoplight buttons in App Store aren't in the same place as other apps.

voyagerd
Jul 25, 2012, 11:02 AM
This is what I use at work!

ChazUK
Jul 25, 2012, 11:02 AM
There's a Windows HIG?

Why yes..... Yes there is!

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511258.aspx

NIKKG
Jul 25, 2012, 11:03 AM
Chrome is where the action is these days...

astrorider
Jul 25, 2012, 11:04 AM
Why yes..... Yes there is!

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511258.aspx

That's funny...try opening the PDF in OS X Preview and see what you get ;)

bartszyszka
Jul 25, 2012, 11:10 AM
Maybe they don't want people to download the old version until the new one is ready? Their Safari page is going to get a lot of traffic today?

dashiel
Jul 25, 2012, 11:11 AM
I would guess Apple released Safari for Windows in order to spur on adoption of advanced web technologies, Mozilla was moving too slowly with only IE as competition. With Chrome continuing to grab market share and WebKit browsers being utterly dominant in mobile it’s a case of “job done”.

Mozilla started the fight, WebKit (Safari) added fuel to the fire, Chrome basically forced Microsoft to make IE a great browser.

Rocketman
Jul 25, 2012, 11:11 AM
Windows 8 has a very high degree of hardware acceleration. I suspect Apple is doing a major revision for W8 of both Safari and iTunes.

Wouldn't it be weird if Apple made an appstore for W8 to incidiously capture more Wintel users by having a constant reminder some things work on both platforms, but more capabilities exist on the other. :)

Devices are becoming increasingly commodotized, and ecosystems are becoming increasingly important.

I concur with webkit job done. Apple typically does not declare success, they just move on and eat their young by making the next thing. About 1/4-1/3 of those initiatives take in a major way. Lots of scrap on Apple's floor.

Apple could really use a legacy department for successful initiatives.

Rocketman

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 11:11 AM
Why yes..... Yes there is!

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511258.aspx

And let's for a moment even think there wasn't any HIG, just the plain fact that Apple doesn't use the OS's built-in UI widgets is just wrong to begin with. Just like GTK apps look and behave badly on OS X, OS X widgets behave and look badly on Windows.

Simon86
Jul 25, 2012, 11:12 AM
There is NO download link for Safari for Windows

The "dedicated" Safari for Windows download page has been there since May 9th, 2012 - and the download button now redirects to the main page for OS X Safari.

A Hebrew
Jul 25, 2012, 11:12 AM
.01% of Windows users are going to be really disappointed about this.

smoledman
Jul 25, 2012, 11:13 AM
LOL - as if anyone ever used it on Windows. Apple software on Windows(Safari, Quicktime, iTunes) is horrible bloatware.

davebarnes
Jul 25, 2012, 11:15 AM
That's funny...try opening the PDF in OS X Preview and see what you get ;)Opens fine using Acrobat Pro 8.

steve-p
Jul 25, 2012, 11:17 AM
Those of us who use Safari on both Windows and OS X all day every day will be a bit disappointed if they drop it. I would switch back to Firefox.

Apple Key
Jul 25, 2012, 11:19 AM
What's next? iTunes? :D

But seriously, I like Safari for windows. Although I much prefer Safari on the Mac.

diamond.g
Jul 25, 2012, 11:21 AM
What's next? iTunes? :D

But seriously, I like Safari for windows. Although I much prefer Safari on the Mac.

That would be a great experiment. Apple not release iTunes for Windows. At this point supposedly they don't even need Windows since you can set up iDevices OTA now.

nagromme
Jul 25, 2012, 11:21 AM
It doesn’t make sense that a product which leverages new OS X features and underlying technologies, should update in lockstep with its companion version for an entirely different OS out of Apple’s control: Mountain Lion certainly calls for a new Safari... but Mountain Lion certainly does NOT call for a new Windows Safari.

If Safari for Windows does live on, I think Apple should stop even trying to number the Windows version the same and let each one leverage the strength of its OS. Let Safari be a better fit for Windows than it has been, and let it advance independently on OS X. (And of course, share things when possible—definitely the rendering engine—but without the pressure of simultaneous release.)

In other words, an approach more like what Microsoft has used (at times) with Office. Office for Mac has been its own thing with separate versioning.

Rodimus Prime
Jul 25, 2012, 11:21 AM
Not surprised by it to much. Safari for windows was crap and a bad browser. What speaks volumes about how poor Safari is over all is it was at 5% market share before going windows and today it is STILL at 5% market share. That should speak volumes at how poor it is right there.

chadua
Jul 25, 2012, 11:25 AM
That's funny...try opening the PDF in OS X Preview and see what you get ;)

I don't understand what point you were trying to make.

acosmichippo
Jul 25, 2012, 11:27 AM
The only reason I use Safari in windows is because of iCloud bookmark syncing (and reading list and tab syncing, to a lesser extent). It's either that or... IE. Luckily I rarely use windows, so I can put up with an older version when I need to.

I REALLY wish apple would open up bookmark syncing to other browsers, especially if they stop supporting Safari for windows. Would be one shrewd move to force all windows iCloud users into IE.

ravenvii
Jul 25, 2012, 11:28 AM
Safari was originally released on Windows so web developers can test their websites for Safari on Windows. However, with Chrome using Webkit and being so popular, this is much less necessary those days.

Laird Knox
Jul 25, 2012, 11:28 AM
I like it too. For some reason though it keeps crashing and windows shuts it down. I've even disabled all extensions.

If you leave the browser open Flash will eventually crash. On my system (8GB, 4 core Xenon) it takes between a day and a week depending on how many Flash-heavy pages I have loaded.

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 11:30 AM
It doesn’t make sense that a product which leverages new OS X features and underlying technologies, should update in lockstep with its companion version for an entirely different OS out of Apple’s control: Mountain Lion certainly calls for a new Safari... but Mountain Lion certainly does NOT call for a new Windows Safari.

If Safari for Windows does live on, I think Apple should stop even trying to number the Windows version the same and let each one leverage the strength of its OS. Let Safari be a better fit for Windows than it has been, and let it advance independently on OS X. (And of course, share things when possible—definitely the rendering engine—but without the pressure of simultaneous release.)

In other words, an approach more like what Microsoft has used (at times) with Office. Office for Mac has been its own thing with separate versioning.

That's just bad. It was bad when Microsoft did it with Internet Explorer for Mac, it's bad if Apple were to do this with Safari for Windows. A lot of the new Safari 6 features don't rely on technologies of OS X (offline reading lists, omni bar, incognito tabs (did I just use the Chrome names for the new Safari features ? :p) etc...) and could be made for Windows if Apple thought the product was worth supporting.

In the end though, I'd just drop it if I were Apple. There is barely any value in porting Safari to Windows. But I will strongly disagree with you. If they are to maintain the product, they should maintain both in sync and compatible with one another, contrary to Microsoft's approach with seems more than not to relegate OS X to a "2nd citizen" status.

KCMichaelB
Jul 25, 2012, 11:30 AM
That would be a great experiment. Apple not release iTunes for Windows. At this point supposedly they don't even need Windows since you can set up iDevices OTA now.

You don't even need OS X.

chadua
Jul 25, 2012, 11:30 AM
Opens fine using Acrobat Pro 8.

It opens fine in preview too.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/chaddimmack/ScreenShot2012-07-25at122754PM.png

Nevzorus
Jul 25, 2012, 11:31 AM
WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME?! I hate Firefox and Chrome

diamond.g
Jul 25, 2012, 11:32 AM
You don't even need OS X.

That is true.

RedCroissant
Jul 25, 2012, 11:33 AM
LOL - as if anyone ever used it on Windows. Apple software on Windows(Safari, Quicktime, iTunes) is horrible bloatware.

Whoa there! I know that before I switched to Mac, I was running Safari, Quicktime, and iTunes. I was even editing the registry to make WMP import .mp4 files so that I could stream the movies to my PS3.

And yes, that might read strange that I used iTunes AND WMP, but I had to stream!

deannnnn
Jul 25, 2012, 11:33 AM
Chrome offers serious competition to Safari on the Mac side. On Windows, it's no question -- Chrome all the way.

astrorider
Jul 25, 2012, 11:33 AM
Opens fine using Acrobat Pro 8.

I'm sure it works fine in lots of things, but not OS X Preview which was what I said.

I don't understand what point you were trying to make.

"Open it in OS X Preview"? If you had you'd see it was not readable, maybe a font issue. I just find it funny when you try to follow the Windows HIG on a Mac you're presented with unreadable text. See the point relative to the statement that Apple doesn't follow the Windows HIG?

charlituna
Jul 25, 2012, 11:36 AM
That would be a great experiment. Apple not release iTunes for Windows.

There's possible legal issues if they do. Just like there were that started them releasing it. All goes into courting anti-trust fights.

Mind you they won't have all the same awesome features should iTunes for the Mac ever be mega enhanced or even split up but that's to do with the core OS more than iTunes. So iTunes for Windows will likely always be something of a mess compared to the Mac version.

ANd that Safari is stuck on 5.1.7 is a similar game. These new tricks are possible in part due to Mac OSX and iCloud. they just can't happen on Windows without a ton of work (if at all) and Apple isn't a Windows developer as its core focus so they aren't going to bother.

Pianoblack3
Jul 25, 2012, 11:38 AM
Chrome offers serious competition to Safari on the Mac side. On Windows, it's no question -- Chrome all the way.

Chrome lacks the OS integration that Safari has, and it's… Google *shudders*

Eidorian
Jul 25, 2012, 11:39 AM
And nothing of value was lost.

charlituna
Jul 25, 2012, 11:41 AM
WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME?! I hate Firefox and Chrome

Why?

Easy. to make you have to buy a Mac if you want to use the latest Safari. It's an evil and diabolical trick that Steve and Tim learned from their true master.

http://www.morethings.com/fan/simpsons/images/excellent.jpg

Pianoblack3
Jul 25, 2012, 11:45 AM
Why?

Easy. to make you have to buy a Mac if you want to use the latest Safari. It's an evil and diabolical trick that Steve and Tim learned from their true master.

Image (http://www.morethings.com/fan/simpsons/images/excellent.jpg)

Yes, cause they both knew people would dish out 4 figures to buy a computer to use the latest Safari, when they have plenty of other options besides Chrome and Firefox… Opera comes to mind.

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 11:50 AM
"Open it in OS X Preview"? If you had you'd see it was not readable, maybe a font issue. I just find it funny when you try to follow the Windows HIG on a Mac you're presented with unreadable text. See the point relative to the statement that Apple doesn't follow the Windows HIG?

The Windows HIG is for Windows developers. The OS X HIG is for Mac developers. And the font issue seems to be your own machine since we have a screenshot showing nothing wrong with Microsoft's PDF in Preview.

And no, I don't quite get your point... Don't follow the HIG of others but push people to follow yours... I don't get it.

jamesnajera
Jul 25, 2012, 11:53 AM
For Me,

I use Safari for regular Internet surfing, I use Chrome when I want to watch Hulu.

This way I do not have to do Click to Flash or any of those other extensions to block Flash in Safari. Safari is my "clean" web browser for general Internet surfing, and I don't waste time downloading Flash ads.

When I want to watch something with Flash, then I open Chrome. This combo seems to work really well for me.

Lennholm
Jul 25, 2012, 11:54 AM
I'm sure it works fine in lots of things, but not OS X Preview which was what I said.



"Open it in OS X Preview"? If you had you'd see it was not readable, maybe a font issue. I just find it funny when you try to follow the Windows HIG on a Mac you're presented with unreadable text. See the point relative to the statement that Apple doesn't follow the Windows HIG?

Opened it in OS X Preview, perfectly readable, no issue at all.

Codyak
Jul 25, 2012, 11:58 AM
Opened it in OS X Preview, perfectly readable, no issue at all.

Same here.

mono1980
Jul 25, 2012, 11:59 AM
Safari was originally released on Windows so web developers can test their websites for Safari on Windows. However, with Chrome using Webkit and being so popular, this is much less necessary those days.

But Chrome and Safari don't render everything EXACTLY the same. They use different forks of webkit as far as I know.

Undecided
Jul 25, 2012, 11:59 AM
That's too bad - I like and use Safari for Windows. I'm posting from it right now.

No one else has the "reader" feature, which I often use. Or the reading list feature. Or the spell check in text boxes (AFAIK). And, I just like the way it feels.

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 12:07 PM
But Chrome and Safari don't render everything EXACTLY the same. They use different forks of webkit as far as I know.

Chrome and Safari use the same webkit project, not different forks. However, they use different Javascript engines (Google has their own) and Chrome is usually faster than Safari in shipping newer Webkit versions by virtue of their speedier release schedule for new versions.

Kris404
Jul 25, 2012, 12:09 PM
I use it for iCloud bookmarks, have to go back to Chrome again - on both platforms :mad:

lilo777
Jul 25, 2012, 12:13 PM
I like Safari for Windows. Works great in bootcamp.

Hopefully it will be updated.

You are probably the last user left of Safari for Windows. It will not be updated.

astrorider
Jul 25, 2012, 12:15 PM
The Windows HIG is for Windows developers. The OS X HIG is for Mac developers. And the font issue seems to be your own machine since we have a screenshot showing nothing wrong with Microsoft's PDF in Preview.

And no, I don't quite get your point... Don't follow the HIG of others but push people to follow yours... I don't get it.

Could be my own machine, or others have additional fonts that allow it to render. Either way, I didn't mean to strike a nerve.

Windows is, as it has always been, a shining light for human interface guidelines. How Apple could have stepped out of the bounds of the consistent interface that is Windows is anyone's guess.

jjrtiger
Jul 25, 2012, 12:16 PM
Apple brought Safari to Windows so that early iPhone devs could build web apps for the original iPhone before the App Store existed. Wouldn't be surprised if they stopped developing it.

Edgecrusherr
Jul 25, 2012, 12:19 PM
I was really disappointed when Apple made Safari for Windows "more Windows like". The Mac-likeness of it was it's shinning feature.

Nevzorus
Jul 25, 2012, 12:29 PM
Why?

Easy. to make you have to buy a Mac if you want to use the latest Safari. It's an evil and diabolical trick that Steve and Tim learned from their true master.

Image (http://www.morethings.com/fan/simpsons/images/excellent.jpg)

Hahaha, i don't have the money to buy a Mac right now. :(

Consultant
Jul 25, 2012, 12:32 PM
I like it too. For some reason though it keeps crashing and windows shuts it down. I've even disabled all extensions.

Safari does not crash in XP, Vista, or W7 for me.

dona83
Jul 25, 2012, 12:33 PM
I never really like Safari for Windows. It works much better in Mac OS X.

Lordskelic
Jul 25, 2012, 12:42 PM
Do people even use Safari for Windows?

iSee
Jul 25, 2012, 12:43 PM
Well...

There are probably about 5 people that will be depply crushed if (when) Apple drops support for Windows for Safari. I think the rest of us will quickly forget it ever existed (or more likely, never knew it existed in the first place).

Sensation
Jul 25, 2012, 12:43 PM
Safari is terrible

milo
Jul 25, 2012, 12:46 PM
Should we be surprised? It almost seems like they're gradually trying to move mac users off of Safari as well, removing features and dumping RSS support?

marcusj0015
Jul 25, 2012, 12:55 PM
With Chrome providing a leading browser on Windows that uses Webkit and Apple's awful UI integration on Windows, is it any surprise the product never really took off ? Apple really pushes for developers to respect OS X's HIG, yet they completely fail to follow Microsoft's when porting their software to Windows.

I agree, but yet again, Microsoft even HAS interface guidelines? They epicly fail to follow them then.

----------

I would guess Apple released Safari for Windows in order to spur on adoption of advanced web technologies, Mozilla was moving too slowly with only IE as competition. With Chrome continuing to grab market share and WebKit browsers being utterly dominant in mobile it’s a case of “job done”.

Mozilla started the fight, WebKit (Safari) added fuel to the fire, Chrome basically forced Microsoft to make IE a great browser.

LMAO at IE being a "great browser" it's till incredibly slow, just as ugly on the inside, and buggy as ****. It's a Microsoft product, and no matter what Microsoft will never change. I hope Windows 8 kills them. I really ****ing do.

ArtOfWarfare
Jul 25, 2012, 12:55 PM
Probably because all the Windows Safari users switched to Chrome :p

Probably. Is there a way to Get Safari iCloud data on Windows? (Possibly through a chrome plugin?)

I've moved on to Chrome (on Windows) already... If Safari gets iCloud tab sync before Chrome, I'll consider going back to it.

slippyr4
Jul 25, 2012, 12:56 PM
I guess Safari 6 was just too snappy for Windows machines to run...

Wishful thinking. On windows, chrome is a significantly better browser by almost every measure.

emvath
Jul 25, 2012, 12:57 PM
It's Firefox on Windows for me.

slippyr4
Jul 25, 2012, 12:59 PM
I was really disappointed when Apple made Safari for Windows "more Windows like". The Mac-likeness of it was it's shinning feature.

Disagree entirely.

Any app should stick to the UI guidelines (yes, there are a lot of guidelines on windows before anyone trolls). It's what users expect. And it's the point of them.

If Microsoft launched a browser on OSX that was skinned like windows - even if it was really good - it would get panned by design any usability purists because it doesn't have a UI consistent with the rest of the OS.

Apple's insistence on making Safari (and iTunes) look like mac apps is a design mistake. It is a case of marketing over appropriate design.

marcusj0015
Jul 25, 2012, 01:06 PM
It's Firefox on Windows for me.

You should RELLY try Chrome, it's SO much faster, and AFAIK has more extensions than failfox anyway.

----------

Disagree entirely.

Any app should stick to the UI guidelines (yes, there are a lot of guidelines on windows before anyone trolls). It's what users expect. And it's the point of them.

If Microsoft launched a browser on OSX that was skinned like windows - even if it was really good - it would get panned by design any usability purists because it doesn't have a UI consistent with the rest of the OS.

Apple's insistence on making Safari (and iTunes) look like mac apps is a design mistake. It is a case of marketing over appropriate design.

And the sad thing is (Typing this from my POS faildows box I'm replacing with a retina mbp asap) is that it looks like absolute ****, and runs HORRIBLY.

DJJAZZYJET
Jul 25, 2012, 01:09 PM
Safari for mac, chrome for windows.

bdkennedy1
Jul 25, 2012, 01:17 PM
Windows 8 is coming out in a few months. I'm sure they are not going to spend too many resources on Windows 7. Windows 8 is a new OS and Apple is probably waiting to see if it's going to crash and burn.

Microsoft should be worrying about iTunes for Windows 8.

ivladster
Jul 25, 2012, 01:19 PM
Well if Windows8 will not have such great support and current machines don't have much of a touch technologies available, then why have Safari on Windows at all. I think Apple realized it rather focus on other things than winning the Browser wars. Chrome and Firefox are doing a great job.

Apple Key
Jul 25, 2012, 01:20 PM
That would be a great experiment. Apple not release iTunes for Windows. At this point supposedly they don't even need Windows since you can set up iDevices OTA now.

I imagine it would be a problem for people to sync their content though. Even to sync over wifi, they would still need iTunes.

DavidLeblond
Jul 25, 2012, 01:24 PM
I imagine it would be a problem for people to sync their content though. Even to sync over wifi, they would still need iTunes.

iCloud + iTunes Match = Sync wha?

KnightWRX
Jul 25, 2012, 01:38 PM
I agree, but yet again, Microsoft even HAS interface guidelines?

Didn't read the rest of the thread did you ? You can even grab a copy off of MSDN.

Toltepeceno
Jul 25, 2012, 02:04 PM
I do not like Safari for windows at all. Chrome, Firefox and opera are all much better. I think Chrome has overtaken firefox. That statement does not apply to Safari for OSX.

benji888
Jul 25, 2012, 02:10 PM
Windows 8 has a very high degree of hardware acceleration. I suspect Apple is doing a major revision for W8 of both Safari and iTunes.

Wouldn't it be weird if Apple made an appstore for W8 to incidiously capture more Wintel users by having a constant reminder some things work on both platforms, but more capabilities exist on the other. :)
...

I agree with what "rocketman" said on pg 1, post 17....

I think this is a low priority for Apple as it is free and not a revenue generator...but they might be holding off an update for win 8 and then have an updated safari and iTunes for win? ...they still have bootcamp and sell macs as "dual-boot" machines, as far as I know, so I doubt they will just abandon it completely.

I'm not so sure about an app store for windows though...they don't make other apps for win...but, iTunes generates revenue for apple, so I can't see them dropping a win version of it. ...maybe they're working on an iTunes that is also web browser, eliminating need for win version of safari? ...or, maybe iTunes will be completely changed when Apple comes out with their "smart" HDTV? :eek:

MagnusVonMagnum
Jul 25, 2012, 02:13 PM
This is why I use Firefox. It's consistent on all platforms (even Linux). I use a theme (Noia) that even gives me a relatively consistent look on all platforms and looks good on all of them. Choosing Safari gives you no option in Linux and spotty performance in Windows. Choosing Internet Explorer 9 gives you no option on the Mac, Linux or even WindowsXP. Sorry, but I use more than one operating system and I want a good browser experience on all of them. And I don't like Chrome (never felt fast and had a horrible GUI, IMO.). Noia on Firefox rules.

This does make me wonder if Apple is planning on dumping iTunes for Windows next. That would be utterly stupid, but then that seems to be Apple's order of the day since Steve died. I was no fan of Steve with his obsessive compulsive behaviors over thin (which continues today sadly even without him) and whiny fits about other companies (paranoia much?), but I really worry about Apple's future. They either need to bring back the Pro markets and power computers or they need to continue to innovate constantly to make up for it. Without Steve, the former is the better option and one I'd prefer since I like power computers, not shiny thin ones that cost way more than they're worth.

You certainly can't say they're going to dump Safari for Windows because they can't afford to develop it. They're richer than Microsoft at this point. They can afford to do EVERYTHING right and offer models to suit everyone, but they don't because they're still paranoid about hiring too many people on the development side (even though the economy could really use it).

mixel
Jul 25, 2012, 02:22 PM
If apple kill windows Safari they'll at least have to make iCloud support non safari bookmarks on the windows end? Knowing all my bookmarks are everywhere has been handy in the past, and xmarks has never worked as well for me as MobileMe/iCloud sync. Hmm.

A Hebrew
Jul 25, 2012, 03:30 PM
What's next? iTunes? :D

But seriously, I like Safari for windows. Although I much prefer Safari on the Mac.

If they did that I would rage because I still prefer downloading/purchasing on my Windows Desktop over a portable device.

Ruahrc
Jul 25, 2012, 03:31 PM
It doesn’t make sense that a product which leverages new OS X features and underlying technologies, should update in lockstep with its companion version for an entirely different OS out of Apple’s control: Mountain Lion certainly calls for a new Safari... but Mountain Lion certainly does NOT call for a new Windows Safari.

If Safari for Windows does live on, I think Apple should stop even trying to number the Windows version the same and let each one leverage the strength of its OS. Let Safari be a better fit for Windows than it has been, and let it advance independently on OS X. (And of course, share things when possible—definitely the rendering engine—but without the pressure of simultaneous release.)

In other words, an approach more like what Microsoft has used (at times) with Office. Office for Mac has been its own thing with separate versioning.

It may not make sense, but it's far from impossible. Heck Apple was able to implement and release iCloud support for Windows Vista and 7. iCloud- a feature set which supposedly relies so heavily on core OSX Lion functions, that Apple itself was unable (or unwilling) to accommodate iCloud on Snow Leopard.

I am one of the (apparently very very few) who uses Safari for Windows. I have a bootcamp partition on my MBP, and I maintain a separate windows gaming PC (because it is wholly impossible to have a good, affordable Apple-based gaming machine). I installed Safari on each because for the extremely little browsing I do on either windows installation, I like having the consistent UI and user experience that I have on the Mac. It will be too bad if I have to abandon Safari on Windows, but I guess I would ultimately get over it and move on to something else. I am not a big fan of Firefox (no specific reason, just never was) but I also am not hot on using a Google browser. Alas, what's an internet user to do.

blackpond
Jul 25, 2012, 03:46 PM
Why?

Easy. to make you have to buy a Mac if you want to use the latest Safari. It's an evil and diabolical trick that Steve and Tim learned from their true master.

Image (http://www.morethings.com/fan/simpsons/images/excellent.jpg)

If a Windows user's first Mac experience is Windows Safari they won't be switching anytime soon. It's absolutely terrible.

kingtj
Jul 25, 2012, 03:59 PM
I was under the impression that Safari for Windows was primarily made so apps could be tested on a Windows machine that were designed for use on a Mac or iOS device?

Other than use by developers and QA people, I never really thought Apple was concerned about making much of a dent in the Windows web browser market-share?



With Chrome providing a leading browser on Windows that uses Webkit and Apple's awful UI integration on Windows, is it any surprise the product never really took off ? Apple really pushes for developers to respect OS X's HIG, yet they completely fail to follow Microsoft's when porting their software to Windows.

TMar
Jul 25, 2012, 04:41 PM
I guess Safari 6 was just too snappy for Windows machines to run...

More like Windows machines are too fast to continue to run slow Safari for Windows craptastic code.

Bheleu
Jul 25, 2012, 04:50 PM
If Safari drops Windows, I wonder if Microsoft will drop Silverlight for Mac - ie. no more Netflix for Mac. Already had issues getting Silverlight to work properly on my Macbook (took a lot of running around, deleting files, etc. to get it to function properly).

nia820
Jul 25, 2012, 04:51 PM
I use to use safari on windows but since chrome came along no need for it.

G51989
Jul 25, 2012, 05:01 PM
Its meh, unless its for 100% Mac Owners running bootcamp, no point in keep it going imo. Safari on 10.7 was garbage for me. I'd have 4 Tabs open for a hour or so...and I start beach balling? ****, my old storage server ( its an old ass P4 with a **** ton of hard drives stuffed in it, running windows 2003 Server ), can have 15 tabs open no problem, and Safari can't handle 4? Yes, I know 4 tabs with iTunes open is stressful on a Quad Core i7....

As far as the Windows side goes, Firefox is starting to clean up its act again, chrome is great, tons of others as well.


Don't kill me......I have not used Internet Explorer snice Mozilla was on version like 2.5 or something like that, almost 10 years ago.

But the newest versions of IE are ****ing incredible. I feel like Windows XP/Windows 7/ Now Windows 8, Microsoft is stepping it up BIG time.

ArmCortexA8
Jul 25, 2012, 05:25 PM
Wish they would get their facts right on here. Safari 5.1.7 is still downloadable officially - http://support.apple.com/downloads/DL1531/en_US/Safari_Setup.exe

Rocketman
Jul 25, 2012, 05:31 PM
I agree with what "rocketman" said on pg 1, post 17....It's not "rocketman." It's Rocketman. Besides, I am right.

Bloodhound SSC . . . . . . . . . just a thing.

CWallace
Jul 25, 2012, 06:01 PM
Safari is also now no longer present on the Windows Apple Software Update application.

marcusj0015
Jul 25, 2012, 06:21 PM
Didn't read the rest of the thread did you ? You can even grab a copy off of MSDN.

So, Microsoft's interface guidelines are incredibly ******, they brought us Windows XP, Vista, and Windows 8. and they don't even follow them themselves, when they're not changing them of course.

Glassed Silver
Jul 25, 2012, 07:20 PM
Damn...

No more Reading List in my gaming OS when I want to temporarily bookmark something to read in OS X and not interrupt my next game.

Meh...

@Apple: Downvote


Suddenly this video seems stupid (with all its reasoning for the Windows release):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46DHMaCbdxc
(sorry for 240p version, couldn't find a better one in the rush, I get eye cancer from 240p, too :P)

Glassed Silver:mac

Hojyoteiri
Jul 25, 2012, 08:32 PM
That's funny...try opening the PDF in OS X Preview and see what you get ;)

Works just fine in Preview. :confused:

Anonymous Freak
Jul 25, 2012, 08:40 PM
What's interesting is that the apple.com search box at the upper-right still says "for Mac+PC" when you search for Safari...

The Windows version is still available for download, though:
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1531

AidenShaw
Jul 25, 2012, 08:46 PM
Works just fine in Preview. :confused:

Sometimes Apples "just work", and sometimes they don't.

Some fans won't admit that, though.

jonnyz
Jul 25, 2012, 09:10 PM
No surprise to me. Apple probably decided the small Windows user base for Safari wasn't worth a Metro port for Windows 8, so they killed it.

aafuss1
Jul 25, 2012, 09:23 PM
What's interesting is that the apple.com search box at the upper-right still says "for Mac+PC" when you search for Safari...

The Windows version is still available for download, though:
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1531

Tried, goes to the Safari page. The exe link posted earlier should work but fir h LN, we don't know.

Kind of liked Safari on Windows for its speed and use with iCloud.

maxwelltech
Jul 25, 2012, 09:58 PM
Safari is too slow on Windows. I have always use Chrome on Windows before switching to Mac, and now I use Chrome on my Mac, my iPad, and iPhone. I am a big supporter of Chrome.

lilcosco08
Jul 25, 2012, 10:03 PM
That would be a great experiment. Apple not release iTunes for Windows. At this point supposedly they don't even need Windows since you can set up iDevices OTA now.

Syncing

jamesnajera
Jul 25, 2012, 10:04 PM
Safari is too slow on Windows. I have always use Chrome on Windows before switching to Mac, and now I use Chrome on my Mac, my iPad, and iPhone. I am a big supporter of Chrome.

I wouldn't use chrome on the iPad or iPhone, 3rd Party Web Browsers on iOS do not get to use the JIT Javascript Engine. Using 3rd Party Web Browsers on iOS will render JavaScript slower than Safari.


http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/6060?cPage=3&all=False&sort=0&page=1&slug=some-impressions-and-benchmarks-from-chrome-on-ios

coolbreeze
Jul 25, 2012, 10:13 PM
Good riddance.

Chrome 24x7.

moderngamenewb
Jul 25, 2012, 10:37 PM
I like Safari for Windows. Works great in bootcamp.

Hopefully it will be updated.

I agree. I really don't like the windows 7 version of Internet Explorer, and have been using Safari instead. Hopefully it'll get updated

chrismarle
Jul 25, 2012, 11:23 PM
Safari on Windows is not that bad. I'm using it since 2009 on my Windows computers and it's pretty solid. Combined with MobileMe (now iCloud) bookmark syncing it's even more awesome.

I really hope that they'll release it soon with iCloud Tabs, omnibox.

MythicFrost
Jul 25, 2012, 11:40 PM
Come on Apple... don't get rid of it. I want Safari 6 for Windows.

camomac
Jul 25, 2012, 11:55 PM
bye windows.. i'm really not going to miss you. actually i haven't missed you in years.

Silono
Jul 26, 2012, 12:51 AM
I think you people are missing the obvious. Apple built iCloud integration into Safari 6. From this version forward, version parity is impossible, as long as iCloud doesn't exist on windows that is.

TennisandMusic
Jul 26, 2012, 01:25 AM
I think you people are missing the obvious. Apple built iCloud integration into Safari 6. From this version forward, version parity is impossible, as long as iCloud doesn't exist on windows that is.

Errr...why couldn't it work on Windows because of iCloud? All iCloud is, is Apple's apps talking to Apple's servers and passing around data. There is nothing special, unique, or magic about it. In fact, other iCloud functionality already exists in Windows.

Silono
Jul 26, 2012, 01:37 AM
Errr...why couldn't it work on Windows because of iCloud? All iCloud is, is Apple's apps talking to Apple's servers and passing around data. There is nothing special, unique, or magic about it. In fact, other iCloud functionality already exists in Windows.

There is nothing magical about it, correct. But until now, Apple has maintained the same features in both versions. People will want tab syncing in Safari for windows, but they won't provide it. Does this make things clearer?

Fatboy71
Jul 26, 2012, 01:41 AM
I really hope it's going to still be supported for Windows. I like using Safari for the Reading List feature, has I can catch up with web pages I've added from my iPhone, iPad on my pc and vice versa. And also with iCloud I have the same bookmarks on Safari on my pc has I have on my iPhone and iPad.

steve-p
Jul 26, 2012, 02:11 AM
I think you people are missing the obvious. Apple built iCloud integration into Safari 6. From this version forward, version parity is impossible, as long as iCloud doesn't exist on windows that is.

I think you are missing something obvious. iCloud is available on Windows.

Beta Particle
Jul 26, 2012, 04:44 AM
I really hope this isn't true.

Chrome is a horrible browser in my opinion.
Firefox is actually my preferred browser, but iCloud syncing is locked to Safari.

I am constantly using Safari to send bookmarks and my reading list between my PC and iPad. Today, I was expecting to get the Unified Smart Search Field and be able to sync tabs across devices, not have the browser disappear.

I agree that Safari's UI is fairly ugly on Windows, and it certainly seems the least stable browser on my machine, but syncing is of major importance to me, and it also lets you use OS X's superior font rendering rather than ClearType.

The worst part is, even though both Chrome and Firefox have their own sync solutions, you don't have the option to change the default browser on iOS devices, so you're stuck with Safari. (and even if you could change it, they are considerably slower than Safari on iOS)


And for people saying that we should just buy a Mac, aside from the fact that it is a significant expense, Apple need to actually put 2012 hardware in a tower for me to switch back. (and preferably not server-grade hardware to inflate the price) All of Apple's hardware offerings are considerably slower than my current PC, at significantly higher prices.

If Safari drops Windows, I wonder if Microsoft will drop Silverlight for Mac - ie. no more Netflix for Mac. Already had issues getting Silverlight to work properly on my Macbook (took a lot of running around, deleting files, etc. to get it to function properly).I'm pretty sure Microsoft is already killing Silverlight, aren't they? (not just for Mac)

the8thark
Jul 26, 2012, 04:48 AM
Probably because all the Windows Safari users switched to Chrome :p
Of cause gotta have a buggy low security browser to match the buggy low security OS.

charlesdayton
Jul 26, 2012, 06:03 AM
Apple should have made an official notice telling the Safari for Windows has been discontinued instead of just pulling the links.


If apple kill windows Safari they'll at least have to make iCloud support non safari bookmarks on the windows end?

iCloud syncs bookmarks in Windows with internet explorer also. Alas no support for Chrome or FF.



I think you people are missing the obvious. Apple built iCloud integration into Safari 6. From this version forward, version parity is impossible, as long as iCloud doesn't exist on windows that is.

iCloud has been available for Windows since day one, and is kept up to date: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1455

SDAVE
Jul 26, 2012, 06:05 AM
They shouldn't even have Safari for Windows, just iTunes is enough. I don't see many people using Safari under Windows.

macadam212
Jul 26, 2012, 06:09 AM
I can still see it: http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1531?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

Are you sure they pulled it? Apple might release Safari 6 for Windows a bit later and it's not unusual for Windows software to be updated first on Windows before eventually making it's way to the Mac. Works both ways!

Personally I think it's here to stay and will bring iCloud features to Windows. I think it should look more Mac like again, I know windows users that used it for that reason.

Costa Del Sol
Jul 26, 2012, 07:18 AM
Safari was simply a poor, buggy browser for Windows. Love it a lot for Mac, but just couldn't mess with the Windows version. Better than IE, but that's it.

They should either discontinue it or release a much better coded Safari 6 for Windows.

mrjayviper
Jul 26, 2012, 07:46 AM
Love safari on both OSes. Hope they continue to update it.😞😞😞

Mike1298
Jul 26, 2012, 08:12 AM
WAIT! but who uses Safari on Windows as the default one or even as the secondary browser, it's probably gonna be Chrome or Firefox.

fermat-au
Jul 26, 2012, 09:00 AM
.01% of Windows users are going to be really disappointed about this.
I think you mean .001% of Windows users.

Actually I used Safari for Windows the other day. I need to be logged in to 3 twitter accounts simultaneously, so need 3 browsers open.

Mad-B-One
Jul 26, 2012, 09:23 AM
Windows 8 has a very high degree of hardware acceleration. I suspect Apple is doing a major revision for W8 of both Safari and iTunes.

I surely hope so. iTunes is a sore spot for PC. When you start it, it freezes for minutes on fast systems without even using any resources (CPU, RAM, or HDD) and when looking for updates on Apps, you get the next freeze. I neither like Chrome nor Safari, to be honest. Both lack x64 compilation. So, my choice is Waterfox (64Bit Firefox). Nice side effect: All kind of nice addons like Addblock, DownThemAll!, Flash downloader tools, and so on are available. I know that only makes a difference over 4GB RAM use which rarely occurs. Well, I have 16GB, so, bring it on!

inlovewithi
Jul 26, 2012, 01:06 PM
I used to have Safari for Windows, used it often because it had a different and nice look to it. But then they changed it to look just like Chrome. There was no point to it anymore.

stuffradio
Jul 26, 2012, 04:27 PM
Good riddance Safari! You are a horrible browser. That's why I stay away from it on Snow Leopard. Now if Apple could only fix the constant XCode 4 crashes as well... you open XCode 4, open a project, boom it crashes. Hundreds or thousands of people complain about it. Just do a Google search.

dru`
Jul 26, 2012, 04:44 PM
I don't understand what point you were trying to make.

The text of the Windows UX guidelines pdf is invisible when viewed in Preview.

Barefoot Dave
Jul 26, 2012, 05:09 PM
from here:

http://support.apple.com/downloads/#safari%20for%20windows

Riot Nrrrd
Jul 26, 2012, 05:30 PM
At my work we have lots of systems with 3ware (now LSI) RAID controllers that have built-in Web servers that use Secure HTTPS connections.

Recently my officemate (who runs Windows 7) complained that his Internet Explorer on Windows no longer could connect to these embedded Web servers.

We did some tests and it turned out that neither Google Chrome nor Firefox could connect, either. They all get "Connection Reset" errors now and are unable to establish a secure (HTTPS) session.

Turns out the issue is described in this LSI KnowledgeBase article: 3DM2 session 'Connection Reset' (http://kb.lsi.com/KnowledgebaseArticle16641.aspx)

My officemate was very happy to find that Safari 5.1.7 for Windows did not have this problem and still worked - it was able to connect successfully to these 3ware controllers so he could get his work done.

ixodes
Jul 26, 2012, 05:52 PM
Yes, cause they both knew people would dish out 4 figures to buy a computer to use the latest Safari, when they have plenty of other options besides Chrome and Firefox… Opera comes to mind.
The latest rev of Opera runs fast, and very smooth on my Macs & PCs. I've always enjoyed Opera.

MagnusVonMagnum
Jul 26, 2012, 11:06 PM
I noticed Safari 6 is also not available for Snow Leopard at all either. Given it's only a couple of years old and wasn't even stable until its last release (10.6.8), I find that ridiculous personally and all the more reason to stick with Firefox.

smoledman
Jul 26, 2012, 11:10 PM
I noticed Safari 6 is also not available for Snow Leopard at all either. Given it's only a couple of years old and wasn't even stable until its last release (10.6.8), I find that ridiculous personally and all the more reason to stick with Firefox.

Snow Leopard came out in August 2009.

MagnusVonMagnum
Jul 26, 2012, 11:51 PM
Snow Leopard came out in August 2009.

WTF is your point??? Snow Leopard was heavily buggered and even downright UNUSABLE in some respects when it first came out. 10.6.8 (the first really stable version) came out just over a year ago! Tiger had a very long development cycle and the fist iteration of it was a LONG way from the last. In other words, you seem stuck on the idea of a NAME rather than an actual software release. If 10.6.8 had come out in 2009, you'd have a point. But it came out last year, which makes your point downright absurd.

Apple seems to think it doesn't need to support hardware it's already sold (they didn't support H264 acceleration in my late 2008 MBP a freaking year later even while it's supported even in WindowsXP, an OS that hasn't had a real upgrade since 2008, yet it's still XP, so by your thinking, it came out in 2001. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Even so, Safari 6 is a waste of time for everyone. It's dropped RSS support and that's about the stupidest move Apple has made this year (well short of integrating 3rd party social apps into its operating system, a move that is nearly certain to create hacking opportunities that never existed before, not to mention it's juvenile as only teenagers and kiddies (and those that want to get their attention like celebrities and relatives) use Twitter and Facebook as they clearly have no lives what-so-ever and feel the need to tell strangers when they're taking a dump, for god's sake. :rolleyes:

Pianoblack3
Jul 27, 2012, 04:29 AM
WTF is your point??? Snow Leopard was heavily buggered and even downright UNUSABLE in some respects when it first came out. 10.6.8 (the first really stable version) came out just over a year ago! Tiger had a very long development cycle and the fist iteration of it was a LONG way from the last. In other words, you seem stuck on the idea of a NAME rather than an actual software release. If 10.6.8 had come out in 2009, you'd have a point. But it came out last year, which makes your point downright absurd.

Apple seems to think it doesn't need to support hardware it's already sold (they didn't support H264 acceleration in my late 2008 MBP a freaking year later even while it's supported even in WindowsXP, an OS that hasn't had a real upgrade since 2008, yet it's still XP, so by your thinking, it came out in 2001. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Even so, Safari 6 is a waste of time for everyone. It's dropped RSS support and that's about the stupidest move Apple has made this year (well short of integrating 3rd party social apps into its operating system, a move that is nearly certain to create hacking opportunities that never existed before, not to mention it's juvenile as only teenagers and kiddies (and those that want to get their attention like celebrities and relatives) use Twitter and Facebook as they clearly have no lives what-so-ever and feel the need to tell strangers when they're taking a dump, for god's sake. :rolleyes:
I love you. Everything you said was just right!:')

I too, think that iOS features should stay, iOS. It's the consumer world finally reaching the modern day Macintosh, which is a shame. I dislike everything that Apple likes to call 'New' in Mountain Lion simply because none of it will help 90% of it's users. Yes you can argue that you can avoid them, but the point is Apple put them in there in the first place!.

steve-p
Jul 27, 2012, 05:02 AM
I too, think that iOS features should stay, iOS. It's the consumer world finally reaching the modern day Macintosh, which is a shame. I dislike everything that Apple likes to call 'New' in Mountain Lion simply because none of it will help 90% of it's users. Yes you can argue that you can avoid them, but the point is Apple put them in there in the first place!.
I appreciate the constantly improving integration between both my MBPs, iPhone, iPad and Apple TV. There are some pointless things too, but OS X is still alive and well as it's own product in my opinion, despite the convergence. I don't know why anyone would use Launchpad for example when the combination of Dock and Spotlight search for apps is much more efficient than splattering every app into a multi-page iOS like grid, but Apple doesn't make me use it, so no big deal.

massiwippi
Jul 30, 2012, 10:15 AM
Soon Apple will invade Poland. Just watch!

grahamperrin
Sep 3, 2012, 10:44 PM
Update: … it appears that Safari for Windows is now not directly linked anywhere in Apple's official download pages.


Two steps:

01) Apple - Support - Downloads (http://support.apple.com/downloads/)

02) above the word Internet (http://support.apple.com/downloads/#internet), click the Safari (http://support.apple.com/downloads/#internet) icon.

http://content.wuala.com/contents/grahamperrin/public/2012/09/04/a/001.png?mode=list

Top of the list: Safari 5.1.7 for Windows (http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1531).

grahamperrin
Sep 3, 2012, 11:47 PM
safari is also now no longer present on the windows apple software update application.

The .sucatalog for Windows, used by Apple Software Update, does include Safari.msi 5.34.57.2 for update purposes, to Safari 5.1.7 (7534.57.2).

http://content.wuala.com/contents/grahamperrin/public/2012/09/04/a/002.png?mode=list

http://content.wuala.com/contents/grahamperrin/public/2012/09/04/a/003.png?mode=list

http://content.wuala.com/contents/grahamperrin/public/2012/09/04/a/004.png?mode=list

grahamperrin
Sep 4, 2012, 12:32 AM
Apple's awful UI integration on Windows

Michael Muchmore, PC Magazine’s lead analyst for software and Web applications, describes 5.1.7 for Windows (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2364856,00.asp):

"… gorgeous … Safari would win the browser beauty pageant. … pleasures to behold. The browser window radiates the tasteful, understated design prowess that has become a hallmark of the Cupertino tech luminary. And it's not just looks …"

YMMV, depending on what you want from an interface.

Lennholm
Sep 4, 2012, 02:15 AM
The latest versions of Safari depend upon cutting-edge technologies that are just not available on the Windows side. Apple was never going to release a diluted Safari experience. If you want the best in class web browser, you'll need a Mac capable of running the latest and greatest versions of OS X.

Pure nonsense. Furthermore, Chrome is still the best browser on both systems and Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.

MythicFrost
Sep 4, 2012, 02:59 AM
Pure nonsense. Furthermore, Chrome is still the best browser on both systems and Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.
I think Safari is far superior on OS X, and even Windows too. I've been using Chrome on Windows since Safari 6 was released, and I really don't like it that much.

Beta Particle
Sep 4, 2012, 05:28 AM
I’m still holding out hope that they will release a version of Safari 6 once iOS 6 launches, but it’s seeming less and less likely now.

Hopefully they will at least release an updated version of the iCloud control panel that allows it to sync with other browsers, and add tab sync support.

I am currently having to use a borrowed MacBook 1,1 which cannot run Lion, so there is no iCloud sync and I am amazed at just how limiting it seems without it now—I used it far more than I had realised.

Failing that, I’d like to be able to change the default browser on iOS to one which has cross-platform sync support. (even if performance must suffer as a result)

Pure nonsense. Furthermore, Chrome is still the best browser on both systems and Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.Firefox never had to “get its act together”—you were just distracted by the flavour of the month. They have been consistently in the #1 or #2 position in performance tests and memory usage for years now.

The problem is that they are more flexible when it comes to extension support compared to Chrome or Safari, so it’s easier for a user to load up on extensions that slow down the browser. Chrome also obfuscates its memory usage in a way that make it look like it is using less RAM than it is.

This extension flexibility also allows it to be the most secure browser out there with things like Noscript, RequestPolicy, Adblock, BetterPrivacy, Cookie Monster etc. Some of these have clones available for Chrome, but none have the full functionality.


And forgive me if I don’t want to trust all my browsing habits to an advertising company that has shown time and time again that they have no regard for privacy laws.

The latest versions of Safari depend upon cutting-edge technologies that are just not available on the Windows side. Apple was never going to release a diluted Safari experience. If you want the best in class web browser, you'll need a Mac capable of running the latest and greatest versions of OS X.Sounds like a bunch of horse manure. What exactly is it that Lion/Mountain Lion offer that would make it impossible to run Safari 6?

grahamperrin
Sep 4, 2012, 05:44 AM
Pure nonsense.

Not entirely.

Chrome is still the best browser on both systems

That's true for only some use cases.

Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.

Again, that's true for only some use cases.

Some things that can be done with Safari are impossible with Firefox. Some things that can be done with Firefox may be possible with extensions or plug-ins to Safari. And so on … we're considerably off-topic from Safari for Windows …

KnightWRX
Sep 4, 2012, 06:16 AM
Michael Muchmore, PC Magazine’s lead analyst for software and Web applications, describes 5.1.7 for Windows (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2364856,00.asp):

"… gorgeous … Safari would win the browser beauty pageant. … pleasures to behold. The browser window radiates the tasteful, understated design prowess that has become a hallmark of the Cupertino tech luminary. And it's not just looks …"

YMMV, depending on what you want from an interface.

You're replying to a comment more then a month old. Bad etiquette aside, that guy talks about aesthetics, whereas I was talking about integration and consistency. So you're not even replying to my comment or talking about the same thing I was.

And frankly, words like "gorgeous" and "beauty pageant" will never describe software UIs to me. Those comments are embarassing.

----------

Sounds like a bunch of horse manure. What exactly is it that Lion/Mountain Lion offer that would make it impossible to run Safari 6?

Pixie dust.

----------

Some things that can be done with Safari are impossible with Firefox.

Name those things.

As for off topic, this is a month old thread, we're already well beyond its intended life time. Thread ressurection is already bad etiquette, derailing off topic isn't much worse at this point.

Steve121178
Sep 4, 2012, 08:09 AM
The latest versions of Safari depend upon cutting-edge technologies that are just not available on the Windows side.

My head just fell off due to excessive laughing.

Rodimus Prime
Sep 4, 2012, 08:55 AM
The latest versions of Safari depend upon cutting-edge technologies that are just not available on the Windows side. Apple was never going to release a diluted Safari experience. If you want the best in class web browser, you'll need a Mac capable of running the latest and greatest versions of OS X.

Just keep thinking that. It is far from the truth. It just Apple does not know how to make good software windows side. What speaks volumes about how much safari sucks compared to everyone else is it was at 5% market share when it was OSX only and stayed 5% after going windows. This is with OSX market share growing at the same time.

All apple is doing is just making iCloud even more useless than it already was and hurting its adaption even more because now it will not work on 90% of the computers out there.

Lennholm
Sep 4, 2012, 08:59 AM
Firefox never had to “get its act together”—you were just distracted by the flavour of the month. They have been consistently in the #1 or #2 position in performance tests and memory usage for years now.

The problem is that they are more flexible when it comes to extension support compared to Chrome or Safari, so it’s easier for a user to load up on extensions that slow down the browser. Chrome also obfuscates its memory usage in a way that make it look like it is using less RAM than it is.

This extension flexibility also allows it to be the most secure browser out there with things like Noscript, RequestPolicy, Adblock, BetterPrivacy, Cookie Monster etc. Some of these have clones available for Chrome, but none have the full functionality.


And forgive me if I don’t want to trust all my browsing habits to an advertising company that has shown time and time again that they have no regard for privacy laws.

I abandoned Firefox at version 4 when all of a sudden the browser started eating up memory and suffer slowdowns, this didn't happen in 3.6. The memory issues has persisted until recently, with Firefox constantly eating up more and more memory just by sitting idle. At work, where I use all major browsers frequently, if I left Firefox running idle over night it could be at 1 GB memory usage when I got back the next morning.

Not entirely.

Really? Exactly what 'cutting edge technology' is Safari 6 using that is impossible in Windows?

Some things that can be done with Safari are impossible with Firefox. Some things that can be done with Firefox may be possible with extensions or plug-ins to Safari. And so on … we're considerably off-topic from Safari for Windows …

What can you do with Safari that is impossible with Firefox?

Beta Particle
Sep 4, 2012, 09:03 AM
I abandoned Firefox at version 4 when all of a sudden the browser started eating up memory and suffer slowdowns, this didn't happen in 3.6. The memory issues has persisted until recently, with Firefox constantly eating up more and more memory just by sitting idle. At work, where I use all major browsers frequently, if I left Firefox running idle over night it could be at 1 GB memory usage when I got back the next morning.You must have had some sort of extension or plugin causing that if it was just eating up RAM when idle.

MagnusVonMagnum
Sep 4, 2012, 10:47 AM
Pure nonsense. Furthermore, Chrome is still the best browser on both systems and Firefox has finally gotten its act together again and leaped ahead of Safari.

I don't know what Universe you live in, but I don't find Chrome to be great at all. I guess if the only thing one cares about is raw speed, one might like it. Otherwise, I see nothing great about Chrome when I use it. It looks like crap visually and I have yet to find a theme that changes that (at least Safari looks OK by default but it can't be changed either so it also sucks plus like M$, Apple now just stops supporting it for whatever computer model whenever the hell they feel like it and that's completely unacceptable unless you like buying a new computer every other year). Chrome is nowhere near as configurable as Firefox and I always have this nagging suspicion that Google has all kinds of spyware built into it. Ever notice how freaking slow their search page runs for something so simple looking? That's because they're always running oodles of crap in the background or some stupid half-hidden app or ad (their own pad being the latest) into the page rather than just offering a high speed search engine like they used to once upon a time.

How long until their browser does the same? If it's anything like Sheetz (the gas station chain), they'll lure you in with low or reasonable gas prices, get you hooked on their food items or whatever and then jack the premium gas first 30 and now 50 cents over regular (compared to 20 and 22 cents for all the other places locally) and hope you don't notice or care. Well, I care; I stopped going there (no longer buying coffee or anything else in the process so they lose more than just gas) there over 4 years ago. I don't use Safari or Chrome anymore for the same reasons. The customer should be king, not the corporation. First Safari said no plugins and kept stopping things that worked around it. Then they finally supported them, but they're very limited and now their browser no longer works on ANY of my Macs (I'm not switching to Mountain Lion on my MBP since it would make several of my Rosetta compatible software packages stop functioning and of course Apple dumped all OS support for my PPC server a LONG time ago).

Firefox is the only browser that can be made to look great (Noia theme), be fully configured to behave to taste (i.e. things like Tab Mix Plus that let me make it behave the way I want to, not the way some giant corporation like Apple or Google wants it to) and has by far the best number of add-ons to achieve those ends. Nit-picking over TINY little amounts of speed differences on blog pages and the like it just plain absurd. Anyone that picks their browser that way is going to be switching every other day. There are some things more important in browsing than just raw speed. Besides, Firefox can be made to look and behave the same on my Mac, Linux and Windows machines and share bookmarks, etc. between all of them. I did lose support for my PPC machine awhile back (nothing much supports it anymore), but TenFourFox keeps it going for now and it's more or less Firefox as well.

You're replying to a comment more then a month old. Bad etiquette aside, that guy talks about aesthetics, whereas I was talking about integration and consistency. So you're not even replying to my comment or talking about the same thing I was.

And frankly, words like "gorgeous" and "beauty pageant" will never describe software UIs to me. Those comments are embarassing.


I'm constantly amazed how certain people have the nerve to talk about embarrassing comments given the arrogance displayed on these forums over the years. But if you're going to, for god's sake it really helps if you can spell embarrassing correctly, just for starters. ;)


As for off topic, this is a month old thread, we're already well beyond its intended life time. Thread ressurection is already bad etiquette, derailing off topic isn't much worse at this point.

What intended timeline? Who are you to decide how long a topic is valid? If you don't want to discuss this topic, just drop the subscription rather than giving people lectures on how horribly rude they were to actually reply to something you said and challenge any of your ideas. I mean just what were they thinking? :rolleyes:

grahamperrin
Sep 12, 2012, 12:50 AM
… a month old. Bad etiquette …

Our personal etiquettes differ.

Personal differences aside: no such time limit in the rules for this forum, things not to do (http://guides.macrumors.com/Help:Forum_Rules#Things_Not_to_Do).

Edgecrusherr
Dec 15, 2012, 11:36 PM
Disagree entirely.

Any app should stick to the UI guidelines (yes, there are a lot of guidelines on windows before anyone trolls). It's what users expect. And it's the point of them.

If Microsoft launched a browser on OSX that was skinned like windows - even if it was really good - it would get panned by design any usability purists because it doesn't have a UI consistent with the rest of the OS.

Apple's insistence on making Safari (and iTunes) look like mac apps is a design mistake. It is a case of marketing over appropriate design.

I feel the complete opposite way, they should make it look better then everything else on Windows to show people what they missing. I know that works from many "switcher" I've met. iTunes and Safari (more so the former) were their first taste of Apple on a computer. I just wish Apple could get their own GUI guidelines straight lol.

MagnusVonMagnum
Dec 16, 2012, 09:09 PM
I feel the complete opposite way, they should make it look better then everything else on Windows to show people what they missing. I know that works from many "switcher" I've met. iTunes and Safari (more so the former) were their first taste of Apple on a computer. I just wish Apple could get their own GUI guidelines straight lol.

The problem is they aren't missing anything, IMO. I don't like Safari on the Mac either. Then there's the fact that sooner or later they'll stop updating Safari for your Mac and/or the version of OSX you're running (e.g. Sorry Snow Leopard folk; you're supposed to ditch that stable version of OSX and go with something less predictable like Lion and Mountain Lion where things you count on like SMB doesn't work for squat with programs like XBMC since Apple went custom and isn't 100% compatible (thank goodness for SMBUp). The point is that you need to count on an updated browser possibly more than anything else on a modern computer (so as to avoid security issues and so web sites using newer features continue to function properly, etc.) and having Apple just dump updates for something like Snow Leopard is unacceptable, IMO. Firefox maintains backwards compatibility for MUCH longer periods of time and so it's a much better choice for stability, IMO.


Apple's biggest problem is they cannot commit to ANYTHING. They are constantly getting into new markets and then just ditching them (or just letting them rot away slowly with ridiculously slow updates so that the market abandons them instead) anywhere from a few years to several years later. A few examples:

-Firewire on iPods (ditched for that awful USB thing they hated so much)

-Xserve (Who wants to sell servers with OSX? Is it just a toy operating system?) This with mixed messages like adding Exchange support while ditching their business lines and letting their Mac Pro rot on the shelf (3+ years out of date now) and turning their Macbook Pros into consumer machines with a bogus "pro" label. Add to that ditching FW (and Ethernet) ports on Retina machines, Express Card slots on all notebooks now, the 17" MBP model that still had them, trading out true matte screens for glossy (and offering two-bit covers and now somewhat matte glass filters instead).

-Updates to their professional software lines in a timely fashion (first cheesing off their Final Cut Pro customers by not only releasing a product replacement that wasn't ready AT ALL to "replace" FCP, but adding insult to injury, they pulled FCP 7 before addressing the problems, leaving real professionals in quite a bind and causing many to run back to Windows. Logic Pro has been sitting idle save minor bug fixes for several years now too. Apple appears to be 5x more interested in selling phone updates than professional computer products.

-Apple introduces Safari for Windows and then unceremoniously dumps it a few years later without so much as a press release or even a few words verifying that is really dead (because then they might get some negative feedback). To their credit (or discredit), though, Apple supported Safari for WindowsXP FAR longer than their own operating system versions, having dumped support for it in Leopard many years ago and even Snow Leopard despite it being sold less than two years ago. Why would ANYONE want to count on or trust a browser like that where you have to buy a new computer or operating system just to keep your freaking web browser running? Oh wait. That reminds me of Microsoft since they did the same thing is cheesed off one heck of a load of XP users in the process (who then just as unceremoniously moved to Firefox and Chrome. Apple watched Microsoft lose that giant share of browsing market share and asked themselves why aren't they copying that GREAT idea!?!? :rolleyes:

-Then there's iTunes...yeah just do whatever you feel like Apple with no consideration of feedback from your users as your move to black and white icons and that hideous new dock icon proved a few years ago and now ditching cover flow (which was once hailed as a great new feature) without a single thought to those that actually like or use it once in awhile, even if only for certain sources. Don't follow your own standards guidelines (like that stoplight red/yellow/green set of vertical buttons showed) and now make iTunes 11 look even odder in that regard. Apple changes their style guides so often they can't even keep up with their own software to follow it, let alone expect anyone else to (how long did it take to get iTunes to Cocoa (without relying on Carbon), again? :rolleyes:)

-Carbon...oh that reminds me of Rosetta. Yeah, too bad if anyone was using that or had older software that depended on it, but they already showed by dropping Classic in Leopard (even though PPC was going to be dropped anyway in Snow Leopard so they could have waited that one last version to ditch it) that they didn't give a crap what their users thought and left many still using Tiger for no other reason.

I'm sure I could think of some more things if I tried, but I'm tired.

haruhiko
Dec 16, 2012, 09:16 PM
WTF is your point??? Snow Leopard was heavily buggered and even downright UNUSABLE in some respects when it first came out. 10.6.8 (the first really stable version) came out just over a year ago! Tiger had a very long development cycle and the fist iteration of it was a LONG way from the last. In other words, you seem stuck on the idea of a NAME rather than an actual software release. If 10.6.8 had come out in 2009, you'd have a point. But it came out last year, which makes your point downright absurd.

Apple seems to think it doesn't need to support hardware it's already sold (they didn't support H264 acceleration in my late 2008 MBP a freaking year later even while it's supported even in WindowsXP, an OS that hasn't had a real upgrade since 2008, yet it's still XP, so by your thinking, it came out in 2001. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Even so, Safari 6 is a waste of time for everyone. It's dropped RSS support and that's about the stupidest move Apple has made this year (well short of integrating 3rd party social apps into its operating system, a move that is nearly certain to create hacking opportunities that never existed before, not to mention it's juvenile as only teenagers and kiddies (and those that want to get their attention like celebrities and relatives) use Twitter and Facebook as they clearly have no lives what-so-ever and feel the need to tell strangers when they're taking a dump, for god's sake. :rolleyes:

Leopard was delayed due to the development of iPhone. It's not a typical cycle.

MagnusVonMagnum
Dec 17, 2012, 03:33 PM
Leopard was delayed due to the development of iPhone. It's not a typical cycle.

I'm not sure what "typical" is when an OS is that new (i.e. 10.1 = unusable mess and you only had two prior OS updates until Tiger, so it wasn't much to go on at that point).

Regardless, constant updates to the OS destabilizes things badly and it's worse yet when Apple refuses to support prior versions of its own operating system (it was a joke when Safari updates were available for XP, but not Leopard, for example). Right now there's a lot of people still using Snow Leopard because it's stable, it still supports Rosetta (which some still need or want), SMB still works (with things like XBMC, etc. that are broken in Lion and Mountain Lion) and by the time Lion was stable, they moved right on to Mountain Lion with no ability to buy Lion any longer (meaning you then had to move to YET ANOTHER *UNSTABLE* version of OSX to upgrade).

The one thing Microsoft has typically gotten right over the years is acknowledging that there are groups of computers users that don't need the latest whiz-bang feature instantly. What they need is STABILITY (lack of bugs, lack of surprises) and Apple just doesn't seem to know what that is lately. They should either be pushing longer minor updates (so one can buy the default version and upgrade to the most stable version at their own pace) or they should be supporting older more stable versions of the operating system for much longer periods of time. The last thing Apple needs long-term is to be known for an unstable and therefore unusable operating system.

AidenShaw
Dec 17, 2012, 06:44 PM
The one thing Microsoft has typically gotten right over the years is acknowledging that there are groups of computers users that don't need the latest whiz-bang feature instantly.

Microsoft is also good at warning users when features or systems will not be supported....