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Tearabite
Jul 27, 2012, 11:05 AM
I'm curious if anyone is ready to make the move from their standard files & folders local storage and move everything into iCloud.. I'm still trying to figure out the advantages to making the move..

For me, i would have to either wait for OpenOffice to support iCloud storage OR buy iWork..

But then if/after moving all files to iCloud, it seems that instead of going to a folder (that makes sense) on my HDD to find and open a file, i would have to know what TYPE of file it is, open that app, then open the file.. This seems like more steps, and more potential for confusion..

Am i just old fashioned ?



haravikk
Jul 27, 2012, 11:08 AM
Nope. The inability for apps to manage documents other than their own seems to make it pretty much useless; I don't understand why an image app can't just request all images, sorted by the apps that created them.

For example, if you create a new message in Mail and try to attach a file, then it won't see any of the files you know you've stored in iCloud, you have to go back into the app that created it, open the file, and use the share menu to create the e-mail.

It's fine for a much more constrained environment like iOS (even then…) but it's just no good when you might want to pass a document from one word processor to another, or open an image in a program that can handle multiple formats from a variety of sources.

And it's also not clear what happens if you stop using one of the apps; how do you open your documents if the image creation tool you've used is out of date and you want to switch to another one?


Plus I have ~3tb of hard drive space, the same in external backup, and have a NAS on the way for a third point of redundancy; I'm too invested in local storage I think ;)

That all said, I think it'll be useful for passing files around, but for permanent storage it's just no good.

steve-p
Jul 27, 2012, 11:26 AM
With iCloud as it is today, no chance. You can only open an iCloud document in the application that created it, there is little organisational structure such as folders available, and anyway all those documents are still stored locally but hidden, it's not like they are only in the cloud. Dropbox or similar is a better solution.

jameslmoser
Jul 27, 2012, 12:42 PM
iDisk was a much better solution. You even had the option to store your entire idisk locally and sync it, or just access all the files remotely. iDisk was ahead of its time, then it was ignored and then replaced with the ridiculous solution which is iCloud Documents. Its not well thought out, just like most of the changes at Apple as of late.

For example. There is no iCloud PDF viewer on the iPhone, so if you save your Preview PDF to iCloud, how do you see it on your phone or iPad? If I add it to Dropbox, I can open it with Acrobat Reader or Preview, even if I saved it from the web using a web browser. I can then open it on any mobile device, including Android or desktop linux.

iCloud is just full of fail. I don't even think it works well for iOS like devices, as I pointed out.

tkermit
Jul 27, 2012, 02:14 PM
It should be noted that iCloud documents appear both in Spotlight searches as well as the 'All My Files' view in the Finder.

http://f.cl.ly/items/111t3r1Z2Y2X0E19143S/mail.png


if you create a new message in Mail and try to attach a file, then it won't see any of the files you know you've stored in iCloud, you have to go back into the app that created it, open the file, and use the share menu to create the e-mail.


You can only open an iCloud document in the application that created it

Not true.

nuckinfutz
Jul 27, 2012, 02:36 PM
Confusing.

When i'm in mail it leads to me my iCloud area but it's blank. Can't figure out what iCloud folder it's referencing.

tkermit
Jul 27, 2012, 02:43 PM
Confusing.

When i'm in mail it leads to me my iCloud area but it's blank. Can't figure out what iCloud folder it's referencing.

I agree it can be a bit confusing. It's referencing Mail.app's own iCloud folder (~/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~mail/ . You can save mail messages and/or attachments to that location.

Faux Carnival
Jul 27, 2012, 02:48 PM
A cloud service without proper file management? Support for few file types? And all this through their own devices?

Don't think so...

tkermit
Jul 27, 2012, 02:52 PM
Creating a smart folder is another way to have quick access to all of your iCloud documents from within the Finder and "Open File..." dialog boxes:

http://f.cl.ly/items/1w1s323t1k0N1k3d3329/icloud.jpg

By the way: It gets weirder once you open and duplicate an iCloud document that was saved by another app. Want to guess which iCloud container this is going to be saved in?

http://f.cl.ly/items/3E25150c2B1w2o132042/icl.png

nuckinfutz
Jul 27, 2012, 07:51 PM
I agree it can be a bit confusing. It's referencing Mail.app's own iCloud folder (~/Library/Mobile Documents/com~apple~mail/ . You can save mail messages and/or attachments to that location.

Hmmm may be nice to drag some items in there that are often attached to emails. I'll give it a try tonight. Thanks!

Sital
Jul 27, 2012, 08:01 PM
For me, iCloud is great for contacts and calendars and not much else.

ixodes
Jul 27, 2012, 08:06 PM
Sadly, iCloud is another of Apples much hyped, yet feeble attempts at the cloud. It would be terrific if Apple made it highly useful and worthy of praise.

At some point I think they may begin to improve it, yet at this rate they make me wonder just how long it might take. One of iClouds most compelling features is the very attractive icon they've created.

Next best is the terrific graphics and web pages on Apple .com. It's there that one gets to see Apples true expertise, creating a terrific & clever description of the service.

Some say that half the battle, when a company is introducing something new is the marketing pitch. Well, there's no worries cause Apples got that down cold.

Conversely now that it's time to put their money where their mouth is an deliver, they may have backed themselves into a corner.

NotAdvisable
Jul 27, 2012, 08:15 PM
Yes.
I've moved everything to iCloud that is a Pages, Keynote or Numbers document; and I have all my assignments stored their too.
For all my other files I use Google Drive as Dropbox and Box are extremely poor.

nuckinfutz
Jul 27, 2012, 08:16 PM
Sadly, iCloud is another of Apples much hyped, yet feeble attempts at the cloud. It would be terrific if Apple made it highly useful and worthy of praise.

At some point I think they may begin to improve it, yet at this rate they make me wonder just how long it might take. One of iClouds most compelling features is the very attractive icon they've created.

Next best is the terrific graphics and web pages on Apple .com. It's there that one gets to see Apples true expertise, creating a terrific & clever description of the service.

Some say that half the battle, when a company is introducing something new is the marketing pitch. Well, there's no worries cause Apples got that down cold.

Conversely now that it's time to put their money where their mouth is an deliver, they may have backed themselves into a corner.

Content free post.

In no way did you come close to divulging any deficiency in iCloud.

Yes...sharing in iCloud isn't up to par with the competition but iCloud works.

JohnDoe98
Jul 27, 2012, 08:23 PM
Not a chance I'm going to iCloud yet. I used to use MobileMe's iDisk, which was great. When it got dropped I switched to Dropbox. I'm not going to Apple's new solution until they fix these two main issues:

(1) iCloud is interoperable between apps. Rather than store the files in accordance with each file type, Apple needs to make it so that it stores entire folders with various file types and lets you open those files with any App that is granted permission to that folder. Others described the same need in this thread, perhaps more clearly than I. I have hundreds of files to keep track of at any single time, I'm not going to remember all their locations. I will remember how I organize these projects and what projects I'm working on. So we need a way to place all files related to a single project in one location, and visible from all Apps so I can quickly look up what other work I've done in this project.

(2) iCloud needs to support far more organizational structure. Just as an example, I teach a many places so I need a folder for each institution, and then within each of those folders I need a folder for each course. In there I need to keep all my syllabus, presentations, assignments, lecture notes, etc. But I also like to have a folder for each assignment given to my students so I can store their files in there, and they don't all submit in the exact same format no matter how much you instruct them to do so. With Apple's current setup, I'd have massive lists of files that I'd have to sort through in order to get any work done. In this example I need four levels of folders, plus the capacity to store multiple different file types in each one. Apple only allows two levels of folders, and one file type unless you are constantly looking various different Apps, utter nonsense.

milomak
Jul 27, 2012, 08:45 PM
wow reading this, dropbox or box seem better cloud alternatives.

ixodes
Jul 27, 2012, 09:15 PM
Content free post.
Thanks for the compliment.

I'm practicing to be a politician :)

dontcallmyname
Jul 27, 2012, 09:20 PM
I'm hoping to move to the cloud, at least for the purposes of working on my air. I'm not sure how much I will use iCloud though. For a start, I prefer using microsoft word. I know this is because I'm much more familiar with word than pages, but most of the documents I get given from uni are word documents and never seem to open properly in pages.

I think I'll continue to use dropbox most of the time. I paid for mobile me, but I didn't really use it much. When I first signed up, find my iphone was only available for mobile me and that got used.

I'll probably use it from iPad to my laptop and desktop, but past that, I doubt i'll use it.

nuckinfutz
Jul 27, 2012, 09:20 PM
Thanks for the compliment.

I'm practicing to be a politician :)

LOL. That "is" a skill you know. You weren't that bad but
clearly your results with iCloud differ from mine.

Granted i'm not using it as heavily as I'd like I've had relatively a painless
time dealing with iCloud apps like Downcast, Day One and writing apps like Byword and iA Writer.

I think ML should improve things a bit but I'm in no way saying your experiences aren't real.

Roofy.
Jul 27, 2012, 10:04 PM
I honestly dont even know what everyone is talking about. I love icloud between iOS and mountain lion. (icloud tabs, reminders, notes,imessage, calender)

I dont understand whats wrong with it. Are you guys talking about documents from pages and apps like that? For me it always updated the documents between ios devices and if I wanted the document I juust download it. I assume thats how it is for Pages on the mac now isnt it?

marc11
Jul 27, 2012, 10:08 PM
there is little organisational structure such as folders available, and anyway all those documents are still stored locally but hidden, it's not like they are only in the cloud. Dropbox or similar is a better solution.

Not true, you can have your documents organized in folders. Also the second not true point is about the docs being stored locally, they are not local they are stored in Apples servers.

Dropbox is a more complete solution for backing up and syncing FILES across computers and accessing them across platforms or devices, iCloud is great for the casual user of iWork documents and multiple device Apple user.

Bobby.e
Jul 27, 2012, 10:11 PM
I use all of googles services and Dropbox. I work for a home improvement dealer. All of my manufacturers use Dropbox to share things. Not many people use macs so for me Dropbox and google are better.

talmy
Jul 27, 2012, 10:13 PM
I've got thousands of documents of different types. All nicely organized. Not a chance I'd use iCloud with it's flat structure that organizes by creating program and not by project. And if you turn Documents on in iCloud it adds hurdles to using the apps for local storage.

There are other services (including my own server) to handle calendar, contacts, reminders, and note syncing, and mail.

I do use "the cloud" for one of my backup destinations, but only used iCloud for testing. It's now off.

steve-p
Jul 28, 2012, 03:11 AM
For me, iCloud is great for contacts and calendars and not much else.

I agree, although I would also add notes, Safari bookmarks and Photo Stream to the really useful list. I guess for everything else I find DropBox much more useful on 3 different computers, and don't need access to anything in there much on my iPhone or iPad.

----------

Also the second not true point is about the docs being stored locally, they are not local they are stored in Apples servers.
No, they are stored locally on OS X in ~/Library/Mobile Documents and mirrored to the cloud.

samplane123
Jul 28, 2012, 03:25 AM
iCloud is great for everything but the document storage. The fact that documents can only be stored and seen by individual apps makes it pretty much useless.

hafr
Jul 28, 2012, 04:20 AM
Maybe if I used nothing but Apple's apps, but I'm not - so no.

Having tried out at least ten different alternatives, I've come to the conclusion that Dropbox is the best solution for my needs. I'm also using Syncplicity as a form of secondary online backup for certain folders.

haravikk
Jul 28, 2012, 04:52 AM
if you create a new message in Mail and try to attach a file, then it won't see any of the files you know you've stored in iCloud, you have to go back into the app that created it, open the file, and use the share menu to create the e-mail.
Not true.
Care to cite a reference on that one? Switching to using spotlight to find the file is not the same as seeing files in the iCloud "tab" that are suitable for attaching; sure going back into the creating app and sharing isn't the quickest route, but it's the only "direct" route to do it due to this crazy segregated documents setup.

Having to leave the proper iCloud interfaces to work around its shortcomings is not intuitive or graceful in the slightest.

Seamaster
Jul 28, 2012, 05:28 AM
I'm happily moving everything I can into iCloud. It all makes perfect sense to me (especially given SSD pricing), and Apple has come a long way since the MobileMe fiasco.

steve-p
Jul 28, 2012, 05:38 AM
I'm happily moving everything I can into iCloud. It all makes perfect sense to me (especially given SSD pricing), and Apple has come a long way since the MobileMe fiasco.

I don't understand your point about SSD pricing. Documents in iCloud take up just as much space on your Mac as local documents. They are still stored locally anyway and mirrored to iCloud. It's not saving you any disk space.

Soccer5se
Jul 28, 2012, 06:19 AM
I cloud is cool but I like dropbox much better, mainly because dropbox will allow me to add more storage for free. So far I have 21GB of space. However, I will be stuck at 5GB for I-cloud forever.

Rich

The Tuck
Jul 28, 2012, 06:22 AM
One thing that I did after my clean install of ML is instead of copying over my iTunes folder, i just enabled iTunes Match on the fresh OS and BOOM! All my songs were available. Pretty neat. Now I just need to copy over my movies, TV shows, books, apps, & ringtones and I'll be good to go.

iTunes in the cloud all day.

Tuck

dontcallmyname
Jul 28, 2012, 06:59 AM
another thing I realised about why I don't think iCloud is good for me right now is internet wise, I don't have fast or stable internet. I ended up having to pay $50 to get enough internet to finish my ML download :rolleyes:

I like it for iPad to other computers. I don't use my ipad for notes too often, but I have previously and I can see that I wwould possibly do so more often if I were syncing easily.

Seamaster
Jul 28, 2012, 11:05 AM
I don't understand your point about SSD pricing. Documents in iCloud take up just as much space on your Mac as local documents. They are still stored locally anyway and mirrored to iCloud. It's not saving you any disk space.

Because it's not just about documents — I don't have to store my iTunes music library locally (iTunes Match), nor do I have to keep local copies of TV shows or movies purchased in the iTunes Store (stream them straight to my Apple TV). These were the big hard disk eaters, pre-cloud.

blipmusic
Jul 28, 2012, 12:44 PM
What planet are you guys living on? Or did I misunderstand the question?

Moving "everything" to the cloud yields the same embarrassment as Chrome OS: when you have no connection and need/want to use your computer to find an important document, what do you do? Finding the nearest wifi-spot isn't an option in many areas on this planet. The same goes for wireless coverage.

We're simply not there yet. I've had 3G as my only home connection for the last five years in a country with fairly good coverage and speed (Sweden btw) and at work it's either tethered or wifi. Still, removing local storage is just not doable (if that is the consequence we're discussing), even in my "well-connected" situation. Having a connection "most of the time" or "wifi is 'everywhere'" (it's not btw) doesn't really cut it.

I need, absolutely need, mobility. I don't necessarily need a connection for every step of my work, however. That is, as long as I have local storage.

It's one thing to not litter your hard drive with everything under the sun and instead just re-download when needed. But quite often I need a document then and there, and if having a connection would be necessary to open a spreadsheet a lot of people could no longer do their jobs reliably. Not everyone is sitting tethered to a desk (and a connection).

With iCloud, there are of course local copies hidden away in the user/library folder (Mobile Documents) but that's hardly transparent. It'd be nice if Apple found better way of exposing that to the user on a surface level. I realize that's exactly what they want to do away with - i.e. the relevant files "should just be there, triggered by context" (e.g. opening a specific app) - but the infrastructure isn't there yet for an online-only model. In fact, I feel we still have a long way to go.

As for when I do have a connection, it works well but we'll need local storage for quite some time still.

In that respect a Dropbox like solution is the better way (call it a stop-gap measure if you want), since you have the local mirror of your online documents exposed to the user. Not as sleek as iCloud of course but Apple could do some interface magic to solve that.

Even Google backpedalled on the no-local-storage thing for their Chrome books.

tl/dr: I'm absolutely *not* ready to move everything to the cloud and I doubt I will be for quite some time.

JohnDoe98
Jul 28, 2012, 01:15 PM
Snip

Even with offline, when you open your App it'll see your local iCloud copy. The whole point of iCloud is to do away with the file system so I'm not sure why you are complaining about transparency, it achieves that aspect pretty well IMO, even though it fails at a lot.

Fishrrman
Jul 28, 2012, 01:43 PM
I, for one, will NEVER "move to the Cloud".

Some reasons:

- My data is MINE. By that I mean it's private and I don't trust it with others (encryption notwithstanding). Perhaps the "cloud" (and it might be other clouds than Apple's) seems secure -today-. But who's to say that at some point, others may gain access to it? Twenty years ago (and yes, I was sending email then), who would guess that governments (such as the USA) would put into place programs that could scan EVERY piece of email sent in the country? Who's to say that at some point "backdoors" might be built into the clouds that enable government scanning and intrusion, in the name of "national security"?

- It is MY responsibility to maintain the security of my data. I accept it, and realize that I shouldn't rely on others to protect same.

- What happens if the cloud simply disappears without warning, either by accident or intent? What good will your data be, if it's stored there and you can't access it? What happens when the cloud simply "blows away"?

VacantPsalm
Jul 28, 2012, 01:51 PM
I could probably roll with it, but the "apps can't junk with other app's files" thing is kind of a turn off. That along with owning an android phone and not really using my iPad for more than a handoff device really doesn't give any value to the cloud part of iCloud.

Still might be nice for off site backups, but I don't know of any apps that are both iCould capable and involve important enough work that I'd want an off site backup. I might use it just cuz, but I don't know which app I'll be doing that with.

blipmusic
Jul 28, 2012, 02:38 PM
Even with offline, when you open your App it'll see your local iCloud copy. The whole point of iCloud is to do away with the file system so I'm not sure why you are complaining about transparency, it achieves that aspect pretty well IMO, even though it fails at a lot.

Ouch, iCloud-only files show up fine on a spotlight search when offline as well. My bad and ignorance. Sorry.

Still, a "file" represents information, an app only enables me to read/edit/manage that information. A plain-text file can be opened by many apps and there are many valid reasons for me to do just that. If I need to search for a specific file I will have to use the current filesystem to somehow trigger a situation that allows me to switch to another app that will read the file in question. A solution like Dropbox works better in that situation.

If there was a 1:1 mapping for mime-type<->app something like iCloud would work fine but that's not a viable situation. Not just because there will sometimes be "read-only" situations (e.g. watch a movie) and sometimes an "edit" situations (edit said movie). But I might for several reasons have a need to relate some mime-types/file-types to others and unfortunately a file-centric system is currently simpler in that respect.

I need control over the data, the apps come later since some might work better than others, depending on the context.

I'm not saying hierarchical file systems are good, I'm just saying that making the border between online and offline invisible while hiding the underlying structure isn't there yet for many reasons.

Online-only is a no-go for may years to come. However, if Apple (or someone else) solve the problems with app-centric systems while managing to remove the barrier between online and offline, my interest will be piqued.

Tankmaze
Jul 28, 2012, 02:58 PM
Interesting thing actually, I want to use an icloud because of my current setup.
I've been using mbp + external monitor for five years, but now I have an iMac.

all my work is done with the iMac now, and the mbp is used for meeting with clients or do some minor adjustment while on the road. I never could do intensive work with the mbp small screen.

Now synchronizing the two is quite a hassle, but icloud seems to be a solution for this.

All the heavy sync such as graphic files, xcoderproject, etc will be done with rsync on the same network. but for office work such as doc, ppt I will now use icloud with pages and keynote.

It is to early for me to say about reliability, but a step forward for hassle free sync between my two mac's.

Gemütlichkeit
Jul 28, 2012, 03:03 PM
I would love to store docs and what not in the cloud, but I find no use for it unless apple releases an iWork in the cloud so I can edit these docs at any pc via web browser similar to google docs.

old-wiz
Jul 28, 2012, 03:26 PM
So far I haven't done much with iCloud, partly cause I have the things I need to share located in Dropbox. I have my contacts in Yahoo.

No real objections, it's just a lot of hassle to try to move all the Yahoo stuff over.

----------

I, for one, will NEVER "move to the Cloud".

Some reasons:

- What happens if the cloud simply disappears without warning, either by accident or intent? What good will your data be, if it's stored there and you can't access it? What happens when the cloud simply "blows away"?

A hurricane hitting North Carolina might tear the cloud apart.

hafr
Jul 28, 2012, 03:34 PM
Ouch, iCloud-only files show up fine on a spotlight search when offline as well. My bad and ignorance. Sorry.

Still, a "file" represents information, an app only enables me to read/edit/manage that information. A plain-text file can be opened by many apps and there are many valid reasons for me to do just that. If I need to search for a specific file I will have to use the current filesystem to somehow trigger a situation that allows me to switch to another app that will read the file in question. A solution like Dropbox works better in that situation.

If there was a 1:1 mapping for mime-type<->app something like iCloud would work fine but that's not a viable situation. Not just because there will sometimes be "read-only" situations (e.g. watch a movie) and sometimes an "edit" situations (edit said movie). But I might for several reasons have a need to relate some mime-types/file-types to others and unfortunately a file-centric system is currently simpler in that respect.

I need control over the data, the apps come later since some might work better than others, depending on the context.

I'm not saying hierarchical file systems are good, I'm just saying that making the border between online and offline invisible while hiding the underlying structure isn't there yet for many reasons.

Online-only is a no-go for may years to come. However, if Apple (or someone else) solve the problems with app-centric systems while managing to remove the barrier between online and offline, my interest will be piqued.

Even if all apps were able to see and open all files that they support, I still wouldn't like it. I often have several different types of files that need to be opened with different apps in the same folder. Continuing on something by finding a folder once then open the files needed is, and will always be, faster, easier and more convenient than having to open the individual apps and having to locate the files ever single time.

Gemütlichkeit
Jul 28, 2012, 03:38 PM
I think it's more likely your laptop getting stolen and your backup HDD going bad than a mainframe site going down and losing all your cloud data.

It's a risk I'm willing to take.

steve-p
Jul 28, 2012, 03:48 PM
Interesting thing actually, I want to use an icloud because of my current setup.
I've been using mbp + external monitor for five years, but now I have an iMac.

all my work is done with the iMac now, and the mbp is used for meeting with clients or do some minor adjustment while on the road. I never could do intensive work with the mbp small screen.

Now synchronizing the two is quite a hassle, but icloud seems to be a solution for this.

All the heavy sync such as graphic files, xcoderproject, etc will be done with rsync on the same network. but for office work such as doc, ppt I will now use icloud with pages and keynote.

It is to early for me to say about reliability, but a step forward for hassle free sync between my two mac's.

Thing is, in your scenario Dropbox is still a better solution. You would not have to rsync anything. Dropbox is unique I believe in cloud solutions in that it also does local LAN copies if it can. When you change a file on one computer, other cloud services would have to upload the file to the cloud, and the other computer(s) would have to fetch them back again over the Internet, which is slow. Dropbox is clever enough to notice if a computer needs a file and it can be found on another computer on the LAN. So when you saved a file on your iMac, it would instantly and automatically sync to the MBP. if you happened to make a change on your MBP, it would sync back again and update the iMac. And you get the benefit of an off-site copy of everything too. I work on 3 different machines and all are kept in sync all the time without doing anything. It's more Apple-like than the Apple solution to me. It's free up to a point, too.

hafr
Jul 28, 2012, 03:56 PM
Thing is, in your scenario Dropbox is still a better solution. You would not have to rsync anything. Dropbox is unique I believe in cloud solutions in that it also does local LAN copies if it can. When you change a file on one computer, other cloud services would have to upload the file to the cloud, and the other computer(s) would have to fetch them back again over the Internet, which is slow. Dropbox is clever enough to notice if a computer needs a file and it can be found on another computer on the LAN. So when you saved a file on your iMac, it would instantly and automatically sync to the MBP. if you happened to make a change on your MBP, it would sync back again and update the iMac. And you get the benefit of an off-site copy of everything too. I work on 3 different machines and all are kept in sync all the time without doing anything. It's more Apple-like than the Apple solution to me. It's free up to a point, too.

It's a great feature, which is why Dropbox isn't the only solution to employ it ;) Other services can even separate LAN sync and online sync, meaning very large files or "secret" files can still be synced in your office (between your three computers) whilst not taking up any space online.

wolfpackfan
Jul 28, 2012, 04:01 PM
I have made the move to iCloud from DropBox, but I'm not sure I will stay there. I am a Pages and Numbers user so figured I'd give it a try but I have had some issues. Earlier I couldn't open any Numbers files on my Mac for a long time. All I would get was the spinning beach ball. Not sure what was wrong because it eventually cleared up. Then I notice the document conversion between Mac and IOS is not seamless. I still get error messages on my iPad that certain attributes will be lost. I guess I'm trying to decide what I am getting out of using iCloud Documents over DropBox other than easier file transfer back to my Mac after updating a file on my iPad. Since I don't do this very often, I'm not so sure it's worth it. I am still using DropBox for my non-Pages and Numbers files including all my PDF's because IOS doesn't have a corresponding Preview like app. I still have my files on DropBox, so if I decide to switch back it would be easy, just copy any updated files out of iCloud. I'll give it a couple of weeks and see how I like it or if I get the spinning beach ball again, I will definitely switch back.

kmj2318
Jul 28, 2012, 04:02 PM
I'm not sure I understand what iCloud is trying to do. I love how reminders, notes, and contacts sync, however, with documents, I just don't get it. Plus I never use iWork.

I think Google's implementation of the cloud is far superior to iCloud:

-Google Docs are easy to share and allow other users to interactively edit (possible on iCloud?)

-Store files the old fashioned way with Google Drive, but still acts as a local folder

I was excited for iCloud, and it's pretty good for a lot of things, but it's overhyped.

haravikk
Jul 28, 2012, 04:07 PM
But I might for several reasons have a need to relate some mime-types/file-types to others and unfortunately a file-centric system is currently simpler in that respect.
The weird thing is that there's no reason Apple couldn't have allowed cross-app file lookup for iCloud, as all the data is there; any app with an Info.plist should already be announcing which files it's interested in, so there seems no reason why the iCloud tab can't just do a lookup within your mobile documents for that type of file; hell, it could be backed by a local Spotlight search behind the scenes.
It'd be much better overall, even if the files were still grouped by app in the results, though with a list view option there's no reason we couldn't have simple sort by name and such as well.

The really confusing part is that with documents being app-centric, Apple have actually introduced the problem of having multiple copies of the same file, stored in various states for different apps! So if you do manage to pass a file between apps, if they're all using iCloud you could end up with several versions of that one file, each stored under a different app; it makes any multi-stage process particularly confusing.

baryon
Jul 28, 2012, 04:23 PM
iCloud isn't like Dropbox: you can't just store anything on there, it only works for specific apps, and only for saving and opening with those apps. There is no way to browse iCloud and say select a bunch of files and Zip them. There is no way to Quicklook anything, and there's no way to put those files onto USB or anything like that.

iCloud is nice if you have a newer generation iPhone or an iPad, but I don't think you're meant to use it for anything else!

I have a 2nd Gen iPod Touch and using iCloud actually blocks iTunes from syncing anything with my iPod… which doesn't support iCloud, so there's no way to sync stuff to my iPod. I stupidly turned it on and I had to restore from a backup to get my stuff back, as my whole calendar just got deleted. Turning iCloud off also deleted it from my Mac, and restoring from Time Machine also restored iCloud to be turned on.

Needless to say, I won't be trying iCloud again!

marc11
Jul 28, 2012, 05:42 PM
Sorry posted in error.

Arelunde
Jul 28, 2012, 06:19 PM
The major issue with iCloud - with the iOS devices, especially - is not being able to save multiple app files within a single folder that's part of a folder system. This alone dooms the iDevices from replacing the computer and is a recognized failure if you check the iOS forums.

For example, I have a small graphics biz with folders (and folders within folders) for each account. You can imagine the variety of apps involved in producing any number of projects. And I can't even imagine trying to pull together data from a storage system based on apps.

Because of this, Dropbox or some other 3rd party syncing app is needed for multi-computer/device syncing. iCloud isn't the answer, IMO, and it's too bad. However, even if it did, I don't want my data on a distant server for all the reasons others have listed.

JohnDoe98
Jul 28, 2012, 08:27 PM
Online-only is a no-go for may years to come. However, if Apple (or someone else) solve the problems with app-centric systems while managing to remove the barrier between online and offline, my interest will be piqued.

I agree with everything you said, I just quoted this little bit so it isn't quite as long. Right now iCloud really needs to get closer to Dropbox's functionality.

Prof.
Jul 28, 2012, 08:49 PM
I had all my important/irreplaceable documents on my iDisk in case my HDD crashed and I wasn't able to back it up in time. Now, it's all on my local disk. :rolleyes:

I want iDisk back! :mad:

JS82712
Jul 28, 2012, 10:32 PM
I agree that it's time for a more innovative approach to file organization on today's OS'; however, apple's approach is simply garbage.:rolleyes:

dcorban
Jul 29, 2012, 01:09 AM
Apple really needs to fix the iOS versions of iWork. It's frustrating to work on files alternately between iOS and Mac, since the iOS versions complain about needing to convert the files.

I noticed that the files bloat to about 5 times their size after being converted. I also had a problem where every single file I converted became unreadable. I opened the converted versions on my Mac, and after they were edited and saved, they became unreadable on iOS with the error "can only open iWork 09 files". Luckily, I had a time machine backup or those files would have been gone.

Let's hope iOS6 helps in some regard. That or a iWork 12.

gmanist1000
Jul 29, 2012, 01:13 AM
I cloud is cool but I like dropbox much better, mainly because dropbox will allow me to add more storage for free. So far I have 21GB of space. However, I will be stuck at 5GB for I-cloud forever.

Rich

This is not true, you can buy more storage on iCloud and increase your capacity as soon as you wanted to.

JohnDoe98
Jul 29, 2012, 01:21 AM
Apple really needs to fix the iOS versions of iWork. It's frustrating to work on files alternately between iOS and Mac, since the iOS versions complain about needing to convert the files.

I noticed that the files bloat to about 5 times their size after being converted. I also had a problem where every single file I converted became unreadable. I opened the converted versions on my Mac, and after they were edited and saved, they became unreadable on iOS with the error "can only open iWork 09 files". Luckily, I had a time machine backup or those files would have been gone.

Let's hope iOS6 helps in some regard. That or a iWork 12.

Ya no kidding. Talk about false advertising here:

http://www.apple.com/icloud/features/documents.html

Every document, every edit, everywhere.
With iCloud, the documents you create stay up to date across all your devices — automatically. You don’t have to remember to upload your work to a special folder, or browse a cluttered file system to find it again. Your documents are right there in your app, completely up to date and ready whenever you need them. Which means you can easily access the latest versions anytime on whatever device you happen to be using at the time.

Where is the footnote listing all the features that are not compatible with this? I'm surprised there hasn't been Class Action Lawsuits filed, given that we saw such lawsuits for Apple's use of the 4G and LTE labels on their website in other countries.

Tankmaze
Jul 29, 2012, 03:36 AM
Thing is, in your scenario Dropbox is still a better solution. You would not have to rsync anything. Dropbox is unique I believe in cloud solutions in that it also does local LAN copies if it can. When you change a file on one computer, other cloud services would have to upload the file to the cloud, and the other computer(s) would have to fetch them back again over the Internet, which is slow. Dropbox is clever enough to notice if a computer needs a file and it can be found on another computer on the LAN. So when you saved a file on your iMac, it would instantly and automatically sync to the MBP. if you happened to make a change on your MBP, it would sync back again and update the iMac. And you get the benefit of an off-site copy of everything too. I work on 3 different machines and all are kept in sync all the time without doing anything. It's more Apple-like than the Apple solution to me. It's free up to a point, too.

wow, I never knew about that. I mean i've registered with dropbox years ago (never used it btw) but the LAN copies thing is new to me. I will check that out, thanks.

tkermit
Jul 29, 2012, 04:03 AM
wow, I never knew about that. I mean i've registered with dropbox years ago (never used it btw) but the LAN copies thing is new to me.

iCloud supposedly (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/07/os-x-10-8/10/#a-cloud-in-three-parts) does the same thing, by the way.

File data transfer is also peer-to-peer, when possible. For example, if a Mac uploads a new file to iCloud, an iPad that's on the same local network as the Mac can request the file data from the Mac itself, rather than pulling it down from iCloud over an Internet connection.

Sital
Jul 29, 2012, 05:07 AM
I agree, although I would also add notes, Safari bookmarks and Photo Stream to the really useful list. I guess for everything else I find DropBox much more useful on 3 different computers, and don't need access to anything in there much on my iPhone or iPad.[COLOR="#808080"]

I did forget about Photo Stream -- I do find that useful. Safari bookmarks would be great too, if Safari wasn't such a horrid browser for me.

iCloud is great for everything but the document storage. The fact that documents can only be stored and seen by individual apps makes it pretty much useless.

I agree, it is too limited to be really useful for document storage. But I also find iCloud mail to be unreliable. When I was using it, there were several occasions when I didn't receive emails for more than 6 hours after they were sent, and in some cases not at all. There's no reason for me to use iCloud for mail when there are so many more reliable alternatives.

Soccer5se
Aug 3, 2012, 03:14 AM
This is not true, you can buy more storage on iCloud and increase your capacity as soon as you wanted to.

Yes but as I mentioned with Dropbox you don't have to pay. All you have to do is refer your friends and they will give you 500mb per person.

Rich

bogatyr
Aug 3, 2012, 08:16 AM
When I can store a PDF in iCloud and open the SAME file in both Preview and GoodReader (on iPad/iPhone), then I'll consider it. Currently I cannot do this and that makes it worthless. Having two copies of the same file for two different applications is wasting cloud space and create a headache if I update one of the copies.

Contacts/Calendar - OK
Documents - F-No.

Small White Car
Aug 3, 2012, 08:56 AM
I'll be using it for things that can't be opened by other programs. 'Numbers,' for instance. I can't open those files with anything else so they might as well stay in the cloud.

But things like images or text files...yeah, I'm not so sure about those.

tkermit
Aug 3, 2012, 01:23 PM
When I can store a PDF in iCloud and open the SAME file in both Preview and GoodReader (on iPad/iPhone), then I'll consider it.

You already can. GoodReader's stored iCloud documents are indexed by Spotlight. You could also look for them directly in the ~/Library/Mobile Documents/ folder (which is slightly cumbersome I guess). Personally, I've simply put GoodReader's 'Documents' folder into the Dock, which works great for accessing the files.

WigWag Workshop
Aug 3, 2012, 01:25 PM
Yes, using it for most of my files now

richest
Aug 3, 2012, 01:28 PM
Can you store jpegs and videos?

bogatyr
Aug 3, 2012, 02:40 PM
You already can. GoodReader's stored iCloud documents are indexed by Spotlight. You could also look for them directly in the ~/Library/Mobile Documents/ folder (which is slightly cumbersome I guess). Personally, I've simply put GoodReader's 'Documents' folder into the Dock, which works great for accessing the files.

Thanks for the tip. That does make it somewhat workable though the fact it is hidden leaves me wondering if it'll disappear later on. I still don't like the way they did iCloud. There should just be a central way to access ALL iCloud documents in a VISIBLE location that is documented.

tkermit
Aug 3, 2012, 02:49 PM
Can you store jpegs and videos?

You sure can.

Thanks for the tip. That does make it somewhat workable though the fact it is hidden leaves me wondering if it'll disappear later on. I still don't like the way they did iCloud. There should just be a central way to access ALL iCloud documents in a VISIBLE location that is documented.

I agree. It's basically a workaround to achieve some functionality that Apple doesn't seem to think they need (or should) expose in the GUI at this point. I'm hoping for the same thing you are. For the time being, a smart folder (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=15346987&postcount=9) works for me though.